Are you lonesome tonight? Do you miss me tonight?
Are you sorry we drifted apart? Does your?
Hey, guys. Hi guys.
Welcome back to significant lovers.
We are Kel and Mel. Mmhmm. 2 cousins.
Kel. We're cousins.
I'm Kel and I'm Mel. You guys, this is our first
episode of season 2. Which Season 2?
I guess it's a new school year. Yeah, September.
This will be out in September and second year of Significant
Lovers University and it's our 50th episode.
Yeah, I can't believe it. That's a lot.
A lot of hours. It is a lot although.
My sister said we shouldn't count the bonus episodes.
She said that. Yeah.
Which one? Caitlin.
Shannon. Oh, why so if you don't.
Count them 25. But you know what?
No, because we put in work into every single 1.
So it's 50 episodes. The bonus ones are, for the most
part, just as much work. Yeah, yeah, they are.
She's just not a subscriber, so OK.
But yeah, this is our 50th episode.
Wow. I was thinking, Mel, I told you
I wanted to do this. Since this is a celebratory
episode, I was thinking at the end of the episode we could read
through the rejected ideas we had for our podcast name.
Yes, I love that. Because it will be a laugh.
A lot of silly ideas. It took us a while to come up
with the name, if you can believe it.
Was one of, Yeah, it was one of the hardest things about
launching this podcast was just deciding the name.
We were really close to some other ones, really close.
Now it seemed kind of stupid, but Kel, who are we covering
today? Oh yes, yes.
So first first start of Season 2.
It just so happens to be my turn because Mel went last time and
so today we are covering. Paul and Linda McCartney.
Paul McCartney from The Beatles and Linda.
She was a photographer and was in wings with him and this is
our second Beatles member to be covered on significant Lovers.
We also covered John Lennon and Yoko Ono back last year, if you
want to listen to that episode, I think.
That was episode 3, right? Yeah.
Yeah, so John will come up. John and Yoko will come up in
this episode, but. If you want more of them, scroll
back. It's a free episode.
I am a huge Beatles fan, as you guys know, and I've wanted to do
Paula, Linda for a long time. But I kept putting it off
because it was just so special to me and I just felt like I
needed to wait for the right moment.
And this felt like the right moment.
I was just, I I didn't know if I should say this for like
sometimes on our show, like weird coincidences align with
the release of our episodes. So I'm like, what, like, Paul
McCartney thing could happen? Like, when this comes out, you
know, it's always coincidental. Like we're never like purposely
lining them up with things, but somehow people end up in the
news every single time we're having an episode coming out on
them. I mean, I hope he doesn't like
die or something when this comes out.
Oh, that would be awful. I mean, there is stuff going on
with him. Music was he's insane.
He he like went on this crazy tour what like last year and
performed for like 3 hours, like doesn't even take a drink of
water and has like all that stand him out.
What, like 80 years old? He's 81, but yeah, he was 80
last year. Yeah.
He is so productive, so energetic.
He. Yeah, never stopped.
It's crazy. So yeah, I I've.
I've been really into The Beatles for years.
Increasingly as time goes on, Like, I feel like when I first
got into them in like middle school, I was kind of a fake
fan. I didn't really know that much
about them, but been getting more into it and I recent in
recent years Paul has become my favorite Beatle and I really
fell in love with him and Linda's story, so.
I'm a little intimidated to share it today, but I'm excited
to what 3 words would you use to describe this couple?
I would say committed. I'd say natural.
They're very in many ways, but they're also very into nature.
Okay. I didn't know what kind of like
what and what You said you were using the word, Yeah, I would.
I would say kind of. Both, though, like, I feel like
it's a natural, you know, just natural chemistry.
Yeah, natural chemistry. Not also very into nature.
And then I'd also say family. Oh, I like that.
So I'm I was saying this to Mel before we started recording,
but. The end of this episode will be
quite sad, and there will be sad moments throughout this episode.
But you know what? I'm on the phone with my cousin
and best friend Mel, and I want to have a good time.
And we're still going to have a good time.
There might be some giggling. It's going to be back and forth
between happy, sad, and I hope that's OK with you guys.
That's the dichotomy of life. That's reality.
I mean, yes, it is sad, like the way in which it ends, but
everybody dies and it's just, that's life, you know?
Everybody dies. Everyone, everyone listening to
this is, I mean, if you're in a relationship, either the
person's going to die or you're going to break up.
It's going to end in a sad way regardless.
So you just have to kind of enjoy and have fun in the middle
of it, you know? Yes, while you can, all right.
Well, my sources for this episode, in case anyone's
interested. I used a lot of the Paul
McCartney project website, which is great.
They have a ton of information on there.
It's crazy. I also use the Paul McCartney
the lyrics book, which was a gift to me from Mel and my
sister Shannon. Oh yeah, I forgot about.
That Yeah, I use that a lot. I also use the book The Beatles
by Hunter Davies and the Linda McCartney website.
And some other sources that I'll mention later.
All right, Paul McCartney. Can't believe I just said that
name. Paul was born James Paul
McCartney, OH. Surprise, I know that always
happened on June 18th, 1942 in Liverpool, England.
As many people know, all The Beatles were from Liverpool.
His mother was Mary, his father, Jim.
Mary was a nurse in a maternity ward and Jim was a cotton
salesman and his parents were a little older when they had him.
His mom was 32, his dad 39. I only mentioned that because I
feel like people act like in back then everyone got married
and had kids and they were like 18 and.
You know, it's not not necessarily true, No on my dad,
my dad's grandfather or my dad's father.
I did the genealogy. Everyone on that side of the
family had kids at like 40. Wow.
Like for the first time. Inspiring, yeah.
Yep, not too late, no. Paul also had a younger brother,
Michael Michael McCartney. Paul was a smart kid.
He was a good student, but he was sort of a bad boy, too.
He would steal things and draw naked pictures in class, and he
apparently had a chubby phase in his early teens.
Oh, that's cute. I know and very sadly.
Paul was only 14 years old when his mother, Mary died from
breast cancer. And that's something that he
would have in common later with John Lennon, because John lost
his mom at a young age too. And I think losing his mom
really affected Paul. I feel like you can see it
throughout music throughout his whole life.
Feel like he never quite got over it.
Yeah, that's really young. I know.
So his dad had to take over, like all household duties,
taking care of the boys. And his dad, Jim, was also sort
of the one that introduced Paul to music.
He played in a ragtime band. As a kid, Paul played a little
piano and trumpet, but then at age 14, he got guitar.
So he started playing guitar. And as a teenager, Paul started
dressing like a teddy boy, which was sort of a subculture in
Britain at the time. Where guys were into
rock'n'roll, they would dress sort of like dandies of the
Edwardian period. They'd wear tight pants with
styled hair. I'd kind of compare it to like a
greaser, but like a little more fancy.
Yeah, So I started dressing like that and being getting really
into rock'n'roll. Apparently he lost his his
virginity at age 15. Yeah, that's kind of.
Yeah. It's pretty young.
Oh my God, imagine a be the person that, like, took his
virginity. I know.
Wow. Apparently was an older girl.
Oh, I feel like it always is for some reason with these slurs.
Now just for some really very, very, very basic Beatles
history. I can't remember if I said this
in the John Lennon episode, but when he was teenager he
befriended John Lennon. They formed the band The
Quarryman with this guy, Pete Shotden, who played the
washboard. OK, underrated.
Apparently John broke the washboard over his head and that
was the end of Pete being in the quarryman.
Oh my God, John, relax. Yeah, John.
I know. So then George Harrison later
joined the Quarryman. He was younger than them.
And then they briefly changed their name to the Moon Dogs.
And then this guy, Stu Sutcliffe joined the band as a bass
player. But he left to pursue art, so he
left the band. And then there was another long
forgotten Beatle. Pete Best was their drummer
until they kicked him out and replaced him with Ringo.
And then and when that happened, they were already going by the
name of The Beatles. So that's just a very basic
history of The Beatles. So there was like a couple guys
that were in the band and then didn't make it to the final
lineup, which I feel like that would be really hard to deal
with. I know, especially as their
popularity is rising like I was in this.
Yeah, I mean they became, they're the most famous band in
the world. Like imagine you you used to be
in them. Like that's no one even
remembers you or cares, yeah. Yeah, that guy Pete, the drummer
said that people would like, not stop bringing that up to him.
And he just worked like a regular job, so seems hard.
But anyway, Paul's first serious girlfriend was.
Dorothy dot Bone dot was her nickname.
They started dating in 1959. Apparently dot actually became
pregnant but had a miscarriage. Oh, that's sad.
And they were engaged. But then they broke up in 1962.
Wow. When Paul was only 20 years old.
Wow, that's really young. Yeah, he guess he wasn't ready
to be married. Yeah.
And a few months after their breakup, that's when they
achieved worldwide fame, you know, became Beatlemania.
All of that Paul, they did a few other girls.
I think he was a bit promiscuous.
During those early Beatles days, post Beatles success, he dated
the British actress in redhead Jane Asher, and they were
together for about four years. It's a very serious
relationship. He actually lived in her
family's house for three years, so.
He's quite serious. Even when he was, he was like,
already successful at that point.
Yeah, yeah, I know. I don't know why he lived in her
house, but yeah, it doesn't. Well, she was.
She was wealthy though, like she lived in a really nice area of
London, so, OK, so it wasn't like they were on top of each
other. Yeah, no, no, I think it was
very posh and it would have been very different from his life in
Liverpool too, but. If I would describe Paul's
character, I would say that he's very charismatic, friendly,
creative, very hardworking, family oriented, sentimental and
a bit of a control freak. I feel like that's the main flaw
that comes up when you hear about him.
OK, so then on to Linda. Who is Linda?
I don't know much about who. Is this Linda?
I know. I mean, it's like, wow.
I mean, he was in The Beatles. He was kind of called the cute
Beetle, you know, Everyone was in love with him.
Who is this girl that he ended up with?
She was born September 24th, 1941 in Scarsdale, NY.
Just got to say that's the same day, same birthday as my dad.
So I didn't. I know what?
This is so dumb of me. I didn't even realize that she
was American. It's not dumb.
It's not dumb of you, Mel, I mean.
You wouldn't know unless you heard her speaking voice, you
know, and I haven't. So she's from New York.
She had an older brother, John, and two younger sisters, Laura
and Louise. Her family's Jewish.
Her dad was sort of a self-made man.
He became a very successful entertainment lawyer.
After high school, she enrolled at Vermont College and got an
associate of arts. Then she attended Sarah Lawrence
College. Only briefly, and then she later
went to University of Arizona to study art history.
So she's into the arts. She's said to be like a very
free spirited, not too bookish, not too into school type of
girl. Artsy.
Yeah, very into music too. When she was in Arizona, another
sad thing Her mother was tragically killed in a 1962
plane crash. Of American Airlines plane in
Scarsdale, NY, A commercial airplane.
Yeah. Oh my God.
Awful. I know I didn't even like this
might be naive of me, but like, I didn't know that those crashed
that, like, frequently. I don't.
I mean, I know they obviously don't crash that frequently, but
like the idea that, like a celebrity, like their parent had
died in the commercial airplane, That's crazy.
I know, I sadly. I mean, that's not even that far
away. I mean, I never heard of this
plane crash, so Oh my God. Really sad.
So she ended up leaving university without graduating
because I think it was really tough time for her and she
married a man named Joseph Melville C Jr. aka Mel OH.
Yeah, that's a sexy name. Yep.
And so yeah, she was married to this guy named Mel, and they had
a daughter together named Heather, born in 1962.
So that was very crazy year for her, I think.
I mean, losing her mom and then having a kid.
Her relationship with Mel became really distant, though, and it
wasn't going very well. They weren't very compatible,
and he was really into his work. He was very studious and
serious, and they started drifting apart.
She started taking photography classes and shooting photos just
for fun. And then in 1965, she decided
she couldn't take it anymore, and she took Heather and they
moved back to New York City, and she worked as an editorial
assistant at Town and Country magazine.
And while she was working at Town and Country magazine, the,
you know, she was getting all these invitations to the desk
that she had to go through. And there was an event that the
magazine was invited to that was the band Rolling Stones was
going to be on a boat. And so it was like this boat
party and she just kind of snuck the invitation into her purse
and didn't tell her editor or anything about it.
And she just went by herself with her camera.
And she pretended to be one of the photographers and she got on
the boat and she took pictures of all the rock stars, and
people liked the pictures and asked for them to put in their
publications. And that was kind of the start
of her being a rock photographer.
Wow, that's ballsy of her. And she was really an editorial
assistant. Wow, That's really ballsy.
It's really ballsy. Great idea though.
I know. Just take it for yourself.
Yeah, that's what you got to do in this world.
So doggy dog world. Yep, you know, I actually cuz I
used to intern at Boston Common Magazine, this magazine in
Boston and I still get invitations all the time, like
free tickets to plays and stuff you do.
Because, yeah, because they think I'm just part of the
press. But I feel kind of bad because
I'm not actually like affiliated with the magazine anymore, so I
don't know if anyone would like catch me.
But I still do get these invites all the time, like they're just
flying left and right, so I can see how she just really.
Took that and was like, yeah, Oh my gosh, yeah, you can probably
should take advantage of it. It's weird though.
Like I don't work there anymore and I don't even know how they
got my personal e-mail. It's so weird.
That's so wait, they're just giving you free tickets to
stuff? Yeah, they're like.
Press event invite this play. It's it's usually plays.
Yeah. But you know, I was living away
and like, yeah, I know I probably should go to honestly
do it. So yeah, she's people liked her
pictures and she ended up starting to shoot photos.
She quit her editorial assistant job and she started shooting
pictures of rock stars. Basically, she was kind of one
of the first, like young rock photographers and.
Apparently, allegedly, she had some relationships with some
rock stars who including Mick Jagger.
Oh my God, Hendricks. Everybody has.
Yep. Jim Morrison.
Yeah, Jim Morrison. Warren Beatty?
Yeah. Oh my God.
I know. Wait, who's the second person
you said? Jimi Hendrix.
Oh my gosh, that's iconic. That's iconic of her.
I know like 6 how many like 5 icons.
Yeah, that's crazy. It is crazy.
She must have known Carly Simon. Probably.
Wow. She must have.
She must have been really hot. Yeah.
I mean, I I listened to this podcast about her, actually, and
the girl hosting it said that back then, like, you know,
rock'n'roll was still pretty new and they were still using these,
like, old stuffy men to take pictures of people like Mick
Jagger, you know? And she was.
This young, really chill girl. Yeah, she was.
It was really different. People really liked her.
They felt more comfortable with her.
She was just having a good time and they would really like open
up to her and she got really awesome pictures of them.
So, but yeah, I think there's just, there's something about
Linda. She was just very chill girl.
In 1967, she was voted the US Female Photographer of the Year
for her work shooting pictures of Jimi Hendrix.
She's shot for many magazines, Rolling Stone many times.
She's had a very prolific photography career and if I had
to describe her personality, I would say that she is, as I
said, chill, grounded, kind of hippie, calm, friendly, but also
hardworking. OK, so how did they meet?
May 15th 1967? Paul Linda met.
Yep. Paul Linda met for the very
first time at the Bag of Nails music club in London.
Linda was there on assignment to take pictures of musicians, and
it was a Georgie Fame concert that night.
And I actually have a clip by sent You Mel.
She was on the Vicky Show in 1992, so this is, you know, in
the future, but she's talking about meeting Paul.
You? Know it's quite crazy.
Yeah. So was it like instant sparks
when you and Paul did your eyes meet?
Funnily enough, I met Paul a few nights before the club.
So I had. I actually didn't meet him at
this photo session I went to. I have.
I photographed a group called the Animals a lot in New York.
So when I came to England they said, well look, we'll take you
out. So I went down to see somebody
named Georgie Fame. Do you know him?
In the blue flames, really sitting in the park and a few
other souls. Come on, Vicky.
Anyway, we went down to a club. He was very good.
Very good, very good, good. Anyway and we I went down with
the animals and we're listening. The music was great.
And in walks Paul and some other friends and he sat at a table.
We were sitting here by the band and there was somebody else in
there. And I sort of met and you know,
it was that kind of thing. There were sparks.
There was definite sparks. So what happened?
What happened? So when the band finished, we
all got up to leave and sort of they got up to leave and
everybody started talking. And he, he and I started talking
and he said, well, we're going on to another club now.
Do you want to come? What?
Why not? So that's how we met.
Yeah, at a club. Well, but they picked me up.
Literally. Yeah.
So we picked you up and then what?
I mean, you know, you're visiting Europe now, so.
But you live in America. You didn't?
No, no. So then I, I, we went to this
club, we heard wider shade of pale.
You know, I remember that for the first time and everybody
said, who is this? What is this?
And then I went back to New York, kept taking pictures and
it just, I guess it was months and then.
I was over taking pictures of Jimi Hendrix one evening, came
back and I happened to have one of those great New York answer
phones where it's not they have machines now, tapes, but then
people used to take your calls for you and it was great.
And then you'd ring in and they'd say, well, Linda, so and
so-called and so and so-called and we got quite friendly.
But Paul McCartney rang while you were out.
Anyway, the answering service had a heart attack, but Paul
McCartney are right. I said, sure, I'll tell her you
called. This is Winston Churchill.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So we had a little laugh about
that. Anyway, turns out he had come
here to LA and he, you know, wanted to say hi.
Well, he is in New York, So we met up again.
And then he went back to England.
I stayed here, and then we met again after that.
We kept meeting at places. And then one day rang and we
said, why don't you come to England?
That's how. Well, actually, that's not so
sure it comes to England. I have a daughter I'm about to
put in school and you know, I wasn't so sure.
So I debated it for a while and then I went 5 or 10 minutes and
said OK. Oh my gosh, I love this
interviewer. The way her jaw keeps opening
up. Wow.
So, Vicki, I know. Yeah, she just moved to England.
Yeah, pretty much. But I'm going to.
There's a little more to the story, so I'm going to backtrack
for a second. But yeah, I also thought it was
funny because it sounds like she kind of picked up an accent.
Yeah, I was going to say that she sounds British.
She speaks in a very She's not, but yeah, he said.
They met, she said. They met the club and then they
met again four days later at the Sergeant Pepper's album launch
party, and she was taking pictures there, but then she
returned to New York. So The thing is, Paul liked her,
but he was actually still with Jane Asher at this time.
And you know, I know, so Linda, she went back.
I don't know if they kept in touch or whatever, but him and
Jane actually became engaged December 1967, yeah.
Why is he proposing if he's like chasing somebody else?
I don't know. I don't know if like, he just
saw Linda twice and was just like, hi.
Like, I don't. I don't really think anything
happened, but this just kind of happens in between the story she
just told. Oh wow.
That's a huge detail, I know. Huge detail.
She made it really sound simple. I know it was not that simple.
Paul and Jane were engaged and Jane even went to India with him
and the rest of The Beatles. Oh my God.
But then, as she said, Paul Linda met again in New York.
When John and Paul were there, they were forming Apple
Corporation. But summer in 1968, Jane ended
their engagement because Paul was having an affair.
But it wasn't with Linda. I know it was with scriptwriter
Franci Franny Schwartz. Franny later wrote a book and
claimed that Paul and Jean were no longer together when she was
with Paul. But who's to say?
Either way he either he cheated or moved on really quickly.
I don't know. But him and Jane ended up
getting back together. But then they broke up a final
time, so there was just some mess going on.
It's upsetting, you know, I love Paul.
It's hard when you research people you love and.
You know what? Like stuff like that.
Like we've. Talked about this.
I mean, it seems like all men in that position, like cheating, is
just so normal. Those rock stars for.
It's just rock'n'roll and it's unfortunate in the 60s.
Yeah, it's it's just it's honestly what I would expect.
I know it's sad. I mean he it's no excuse, but he
is in his early 20s, so I think he, I think he learned better
later. But yeah, very upsetting.
So then The Beatles were working on their self-titled album, the
one commonly known as The White Album.
There was a lot of tension. Ringo actually quit for two
weeks. John called Paul's song Obladi
Oblada Granny music shit, so there's a lot of fighting going
on meanwhile. So Paul and Linda are still not
together yet, but meanwhile she was doing great with her
photography. She was actually the first woman
to have her photograph on the cover of Rolling Stone and it
was a picture of Eric Clapton. Oh yeah.
So then, as she said, September 1968, after all that drama with
Jane and Franny and all that, Paul called Linda seemingly out
of the blue, I don't know, and asked her to come to London.
Just move there. And then she yeah, so.
And she did. She did.
And it seems like they were together pretty much
immediately. Oh my God, I know.
I don't know. I mean it's it is Paul McCartney
like. What would I do if, like, Robert
Pattinson called me up and said, come move to London?
Like, oh, would I? You would do it?
Yeah, you have to. Yeah, you know what?
I would, and I would encourage you to I just quit my job.
I. Would do it tomorrow.
I would do it tomorrow, yeah, it's Paul McCartney.
So in the lyrics book, the one that you gave me.
So this is in his older age, but Paul wrote kind of about this
time he wrote. Jane, Asher and I were together
for around five years. So at the back of my mind I
expected to marry her. But as the time got closer, I
think I also realized it wasn't right.
You can't ever put your finger on it.
But when Linda came along shortly after Jane and I broke
up, I just thought, oh, I don't know, maybe this is more right.
And then when Linda and I got to know each other, I felt, this is
more me, I'm more her. He did say also that Jane was a
wonderful woman, but that parts of the jigsaw just weren't
working. Yeah, And then he also said in
the same book, He said, just as The Beatles were beginning to
fragment, Linda Eastman came into my life, not only my wife,
but also my muse. No one was more influential on
my writing and composing at that time.
Just the fact that she got it, that she understood what I was
trying to do was very comforting.
At that time, I really needed someone like that because The
Beatles had just broken up. So some people kind of.
I mean, I know it's from the outside and people are getting
all excited as Beatles fans and stuff, but a lot of people think
that Linda was kind of like Paul's new John in a way.
Yeah, that she inspired him a lot.
And it is kind of crazy for him because The Beatles are still
together technically at this point.
And for him to say that she's inspiring him the most, you
know, John isn't, I guess, anymore.
But. Am I wrong?
Like, is it inspiring in a different way?
Like he's writing songs like inspired by her?
Is that what it means? That's probably true.
Whereas John would be inspiring him like, just like in a musical
way. Yeah, that's true.
I know. I feel like people are just
like, oh, like it's almost as if Paul and John were together.
Like people act, I know. They kind of do act like that,
yet they do act like they were together because.
They everyone he got with Yoko. I don't know.
Some people speculate, actually. What?
Really. They do.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh. It's like Larry, but with The
Beatles. It is like Larry Paul.
I don't know if there's any truth to it, but yeah, because
people act like that too. Like, oh, once John go with
Yoko, you know, yeah, it ruined him and Paul's relationship.
Yeah, I bet there's fan fiction, significant friends someday.
He also said that Linda was the one who held on to all the
scraps of paper with the lyrics and everything.
And that actually ended up basically creating that book
that you gave me, Malik, with the lyrics because she had all
her collections, led to that book in a way.
Just the scans and everything. Yeah.
So it's nice. This is kind of a random.
It's not that random, but it's just an insight into their
relationship. So the guy that wrote The
Beatles book, it's called it's just called The Beatles, so
that's why I call it that. But Hunter Davies, he lived in
Portugal, and Paul and Linda and her daughter Heather came to
visit him and his wife, December 1968.
And Hunter Davies kind of just wrote about this trip in the
book. And it's interesting.
So this would have been about three months into Paula Linda's
relationship. And this is what he said about
Paula Linda visiting, he said. My wife and I, though we're
rather confused by this American girl called Linda.
We had never heard of her when we left England.
Jane Asher was the girl in Paul's life and we had gone very
well with her. With her was this Linda A1 night
stand or was his relationship with Jane Asher finished?
Linda was naturally rather wary of us.
I suppose she I suppose she realized we had been friendly
with Jane and would perhaps be critical of her.
She also wanted to get Paul to herself as it was the first
stages of their romance. While Paul was keen for long
late night talks and philosophical discussions, it
seemed to us at first that Linda was very much a yes girl who was
overdoing her adoration for Paul, clinging to him all the
time, hanging on his every word. We couldn't see it lasting.
We couldn't see what she was giving Paul at times during the
10 days or so she they stayed with us.
There were some frosty moments. Oh, we did in the end.
I know we did in the end get to know and understand Linda
better. I was, of course, completely
wrong. Linda proved to be much more
relaxed and friendly on our subsequent meetings and her
marriage to Paul had been a great success.
Linda has given Paul the moral support he always needed.
John had of course been critical during his relationship with
Paul, often very cruel. Jane Asher had very much been
her own woman with her own career.
Linda has been prepared to devote all her energies and
emotions to Paul and their family and, if necessary, to his
work if that was what he felt he needed.
Oh yeah. So Hunter Davies was a
journalist, and he had spent a lot of time with The Beatles.
Just basically being there and writing down stuff they're doing
and interviewing them. And I guess Paul liked him,
which is interesting. Like you'd think that you
wouldn't have. I don't know that kind of
relationship with someone writing a biography about you,
but. Yeah, but I mean, I guess you in
a way you like you would want to be friendly with them because
you know. You want them to paint you in a
good light, so that's true. Apparently it was during this
visit to Portugal that Paul and Linda discovered that Linda was
pregnant. Oh, and Paul proposed to Linda.
Wow, congratulations. I know it's crazy because this
is only like a 10 day trip. Like, how did all of this
happen? Wait, yeah.
And there are only three months into their relationship too,
right? Yeah, it's pretty early.
Don't you feel like stuff like this just happens in these
couples we cover from like the 60s?
70s, I know. Honestly, 50s, all celebrities.
It's like, yeah, true. If one of my friends was only
dating somebody for three months and then suddenly, like, they're
pregnant and like engaged, like I would be like like, wait a
minute, hold a SEC, like, hold the phone.
Like, I know, I know. Like I would be a little like
kind of weirded out and like a little nervous, but I know it's
like we don't like it works out. It did.
It did work out, according to Paul in the book many years from
now by Barry Miles. He said, is our relationship
solidified? And we really started to feel
very confident with each other. It was a question of, well,
shall I get off the pill then? And we talked about that and I
said, yeah, I don't know why. It wasn't like planning a
family. It was more like if you like, we
could see what happened. If anything happened, then it
would be all right then. Mary was on the way and it was
definitely not planned. And we decided around about that
point to get married. Wait.
Like 3 months and she was like, should I get off the pill?
Yeah, I guess so. Wow.
That's a really serious. But if I was Jane Asher, though,
I would feel like, really like, I mean, I don't know how she
felt about the breakup, but like, wow, he moved on really
quickly. Yeah, that would be upsetting.
Yeah. Luckily for them, I mean, he was
famous so you would still see his pictures, but I was gonna
say there was no Instagram back then.
Yeah, exactly. No, but she probably still did
see. It, yeah.
Yeah. It's different.
That is tough. I mean, I don't know.
You hear about it with people's grandparents and stuff.
Like we met and we got married 2 weeks later.
I know. So I guess it happens sometimes.
OK, so yeah, they're engaged. Linda's pregnant.
January 1969. This is when they were recording
Let It Be An Abbey Road, And it was being filmed for the
documentary by Michael Lindsay Hogg.
And that's all the footage that just came out recently.
Like, it was never all this footage was never released.
Until Was that like last year or two years ago?
Yeah, I think so. The Get Back documentary, it was
a very bad time for The Beatles. They were really breaking down.
George quit the band for five days, and if you watch the
footage, you can see that there's like a lot of tension
and they're talking about each other.
And yeah, and then besides the music, there was all this
tension because the band members were trying to appoint a new
financial advisor. And John, George and Ringo
wanted to work with Alan Klein, who had managed The Rolling
Stones. But Paul wanted.
But Paul really hated this Alan Klein guy.
And he wanted Lee and John Eastman, which were Linda's
father and brother, to manage their business affairs instead.
But the other guys didn't want the Eastman's to, you know, be
their managers, so they couldn't agree.
So they temporarily appointed both of them.
Klein is The Beatles business manager and Eastman's as their
lawyers. But then there were more
disagreements, and there were financial opportunities
apparently lost. And then Klein was named the
sole manager of the band, and Paula refused to sign the
management contract with Klein, but he was outvoted, so it was
just like a lot of drama about that.
Why did he care so much? Like, did he just really want
what was it was her dad. He wanted to be the manager,
yeah. See that does kind of like
letting personal matters get in the way of business a little
bit. It does.
I didn't admittedly look this up
this time, but I think this came up last time, the John Lennon
one, and that was a year ago. But if I remember, I think he
had heard from Mick Jagger or something that Alan Klein like
shouldn't be trusted or something.
So I think he didn't like that guy, but also I definitely think
he was influenced to have his future in laws be involved.
So yeah, yeah, no one agreed with him.
So that definitely contributed to the breakup too.
And then March 12th, 1969, only six months after he first phoned
Linda to come to London, they were married at a small civil
ceremony at Marlabone Town Hall in London.
And Linda has actually said that the night before the wedding,
she almost called it off, She said.
Seems like she's kind of freaking out because she had
already been married before and she wasn't sure if she wanted to
do it again. And she liked her freedom.
I mean, she was four months pregnant, so she.
Kind of done to be, kind of, yeah.
You're going to be stuck with Paul anyway.
But they apparently they almost didn't go through with it.
But then they did. Wow.
And if you guys remember last time, John and Yoko got married
two days later. Oh yeah, weird.
That's not appropriate. I know some people who are like,
oh, like I can't get engaged yet because my sibling is engaged.
So I'm waiting until they get like, it's like some people are
like, so overly sensitive with that kind of stuff.
Like, that's crazy. They were not.
There's no way that's a coincidence, right?
No. Wait, because they did it.
They did it suddenly too, it wasn't planned.
It was like a eloping type of thing.
Oh my God. Read the room.
Like, read the room. That's really.
Honestly, that's kind of embarrassing, I know.
You know, it does make you wonder what the heck is going on
there. They were, like, so competitive
with each other. Yeah.
Once they were married, Paul
officially adopted Linda's daughter, Heather.
Oh, that's. Which is really nice.
I guess Mel wasn't in the picture.
Sorry, Mel. Sorry to you, Mel.
Yeah. Paul and Linda moved up to
Paul's farm in Scotland that he had purchased in 1966.
He had said I'd acquired it a few years before.
I hadn't been massively keen on it, frankly, but Linda was.
She opened my eyes to how beautiful it is.
So on the farm, they got just super into farm life.
Paul started literally shearing the sheep, taking care of the
sheep him. Linda became vegetarians and
huge advocates for vegetarianism and environmental causes.
And they were living a really simple life, like kind of off
the grid, you know, away from city life.
And it's nuts to me because he was only 27.
It's my age. Can you imagine just being like,
I'm done with the city? I'm done.
With, I don't feel like he's like retiring all that.
He's, like, in the prime of his life still.
Yeah, it is like, it actually does feel very much like he's
retiring. And he was only 27.
Yeah. And he's like a stepfather.
Wow. Yep.
And then August 28th, 1969, their daughter Mary McCartney
was born and I was thinking maybe right now we could take a
break. Yeah, we'll go to the bathroom,
we'll fill up our drinks and we'll be right back.
All right, we're back. OK1970 The Beatles album Let It
Be came out and the track Two of Us on there is about Linda,
apparently. The
works are two of us riding nowhere, you and me, Sunday,
driving, not arriving on our way back home, and Paul said on the
lyrics. One of the great things about
Linda was while I was driving and going, Oh my God, I think
I'm lost. She'd simply say great.
She loved getting lost and she pointed out to me quite rightly,
that there was always a sign somewhere saying London, so we'd
just follow that. Pretty bold, you know, no G PS:.
Back then, yeah. Why was that really interesting?
I would just have a driver. I guess, yeah.
That's kind of a loss of, like, autonomy, though.
That's true, I think, for sure. I mean, maybe out in the country
you like driving around. Yeah, I think for sure if I
lived in the city, I would have a driver 100.
If I was rich, yeah. But actually they're yeah, they
were very low key though. They actually didn't have a
nanny or apparently they didn't have a maid or anything.
Yeah, I don't know why. I feel like, I don't know, maybe
they had a cleaning lady once in a while, but.
Yeah. Oh my gosh.
I definitely would if I could afford it, but.
I got 100%. Sometimes I even think about
getting one now and I cannot afford it, you know, because you
know what? I can tidy up.
As you were saying earlier, I can clean up, but I'm not great
at, like, the deep cleaning. Yeah, the chemical it's too
late. Yeah.
I I get really paranoid about, like using cleaning products and
yeah, you got me paranoid about that, yeah.
Because you know what? I was actually talking about
this, but for a good. Yeah.
No one told me that you couldn't make like mix chemicals until
like way too late. Late in life, thankfully.
Yeah, no one told me either. Yeah, until you.
Yeah, they need to teach that in school.
Like, I don't know if anyone listening.
Do you know, like you cannot mix bleach and ammonia?
I know, very toxic. You cannot mix bleach and
vinegar and some of you can. No, that creates like you didn't
know that. Like that's the problem.
I could very easily. Oh yeah, because I certainly.
Do I didn't know that because I was like vinegar is like kind of
natural, right? Like, yeah, no, you can.
I often use vinegar to clean like the shower.
Curtain Yeah, yeah, you can really die.
It creates like a really dangerous gas, toxic gas.
Yeah, it's not safe to breathe in, so this is just our little
PS:. I yeah.
So if you can't afford it, which we can't get, but it's good to
bring in a professional. I know that cleaning is
dangerous. OK, April 10th, 1970, The
Beatles officially broke up to the public.
Paul publicly announced it, so he was largely blamed for it,
but it was actually John that first told the band he was
leaving. Yeah.
So it was a little unfair that Paul for a long time.
I mean, we're too young to remember, but people kind of
hated Paul because they thought that he broke up The Beatles.
But it's largely known that it was actually John that quit
first. Yeah, there are more legal
disputes, the whole thing with the in Laws and Allen Klein over
royalties and creative control. And Paul was apparently very
depressed about The Beatles breaking up because there's kind
of a loss of identity. You know, who was he?
If he wasn't a Beetle like he he was Paul the Beetle Like who was
he? Now he's drinking a lot and
smoking weed a lot, which apparently Linda did too.
But he was still productive despite all this.
He the same year released his first solo album, McCartney,
which has backing vocals by Linda.
And I gotta say, it's such a good album.
I I know if any Beatles fans are listening or like McCartney fans
are listening, they'll judge me for this.
But I never really listened to it until recently and it's so
good. And a lot of lyrics are clearly
about Linda. I mean, there's a song called
Lovely Linda and then the song every night I felt like was
about her, kind of. And then of course the song, I
think everybody knows. Maybe I'm amazed.
Maybe. I'm amazed the way you love me
all the time. Maybe I'm afraid of the way I
love you. Maybe I'm amazed the way you
pull me out. On me online.
Maybe. I'm amazed at the way I really
need you. Oh yeah, Yep, it's such a good
album. And then same year, same year as
The Beatles Breaking Up and his first solo album, he starts
writing the album Ram with Linda, which is released in 1971
under the name Paul and Linda McCartney.
And Sweet. Yeah, and Linda contributes
mostly to vocals. And I really love this album.
I love the song Uncle Albert, Admiral Halsey.
It's very fun and weird. I feel like it's Paul kind of
doing returning to like Yellow Submarine, A Day in the Life
kinda, you know, like sound effects and
just being really silly and doing different voices and
stuff. And the cover, the cover of both
McCartney and this cover were shot by Linda, So Her Pictures,
which is pretty cool. Later in 1971, the band Wings
was formed. This is Paul's new band, his new
thing after The Beatles. It was Paul, Linda and the
drummer Denny Saywell and the ex guitarist from Moody Blues,
Danny Lane, and then later Henry McCullough joined.
So this is a new band, Wings and people were and still are very
critical of Linda's involvement in Wings because she was very
much an because I know because she was very much an amateur.
She wasn't a great singer. I mean, I think she did well
harmonizing like a lot of the songs, like even even on
McCartney and Bram, like she's kind of in the background.
But like, it adds a lot to the songs.
Yeah, but she wasn't a professional singer and Paul
taught her keyboard. But people accused her of only
playing like a couple notes and that she wasn't really doing
anything. Yeah, and that she and that she
wasn't a musician. And it really did seem like Paul
wanted her there and just wanted her to be in the band and wanted
to be with her. So he brought her along and he
always defended her like whenever, Like there's quotes of
him saying, like, you know, people say she's only playing
one note, but she's playing a Moog and what's it called?
And it actually takes a lot of skill.
And it, yeah, it's kind of funny because it reminds me of Taylor
Swift randomly including Joe Alwyn and how people were.
And I mean, she's like kind of as big as Paul at the time.
And it's just like, imagine if Taylor came out with an album
with Joe and it wasn't clear what he really brought to the
music, but he was, you know, included in the byline and he
just did some like background vocals and you're just kind of
like. Wait, why is Joe?
Isn't that? Ignorant, Like, isn't that kind
of what happened with Joe Allwyn?
Like randomly, like he was credited as a writer?
But I mean, maybe he did contribute, like, to the lyrics
and stuff, but yeah, I think it's like the same thing where
people were, huh? They're just like, huh?
What did what did Linda actually do like?
Yeah, it seems like she wouldn't have any musical contributions
to somebody independent from Paul.
Yes, I think so. But it is kind of sweet.
I mean, he really believed in her.
And yeah, I don't know, it's it's an interesting thing.
I think only someone as famous as like Paul McCartney or Taylor
Swift can do something like that, where they're just like,
join me. Yeah, even though you don't
really play any instruments like just me in my band.
Yeah, that's cute. You know it is cute.
It is cute. And I mean, John did the same
thing with Fyoko. Oh yeah, he really did.
She was contributing some, like really weird ass stuff to her.
So she was, she was. And I think Linda has a fine
voice and her presence is very cheery in wings.
It's it's nice. She's like an emotional support
member. Yeah, I can't feel that way.
I don't know if any. No, she was more than that,
yeah. But she was.
She was. That's like a process of.
Me. I'm sorry.
Every member of the band is important, yes.
So sometime in 1971, Linda apparently wrote a letter to
John Lennon, and we don't know what she said exactly, but
John's response is out there for whatever reason.
I don't know if Paul put it out there, I don't really know.
But it was, it was actually auctioned off for thousands of
dollars. So you can read John's response
to Linda, but we don't know what Linda said to John.
But when you read John's letter, you can kind of guess that Linda
said something about like she was upset that Paul was being
blamed for the breakup and that she was also upset that John had
said something negative about Paul in the press.
So this is John's letter to Linda I thought I would read.
I was reading your letter and wondering what middle-aged
cranky Beetle fan wrote it. I resisted looking at the last
page to find out. I kept thinking who was it?
Queenie Stewart's mother? Clive Epstein's wife, Alan
Williams? What the hell?
It's Linda. You really think the press are
beneath me Slash you? Do you think that?
Who do you think we slash? You are the self indulgent,
doesn't realize who he's hurting bit.
I hope you realize what shit you and the rest of my quote kind of
kind and unselfish friends said on Yoko and me since we've been
together. It might have sometimes been a
bit more subtle, or should I say quote middle class, but not
often. We both quote rose above it
quite a few times and forgave you 2, so it's the least you can
do for us, you noble people. Linda, if you don't care for
what I say, shut up. Let Paul write or whatever.
When asked about what I thought originally concerning MBE, et
cetera, I told them as best I can remember.
And I do remember squirming a little.
Don't you, Paul? Or do you, as I suspect, still
believe it all? Awfully give.
I'll forgive Paul for encouraging The Beatles if he
forgives me for the same for being quote honest with me and
caring too much. Quote Fucking hell, Linda,
you're not writing for Beatle book.
I'm not ashamed of The Beatles. I did start it all, but some of
the shit we took to make them so big, I thought we all felt that
way in varying degrees. Obviously not.
Do you really think most of today's art came about because
of The Beatles? I don't believe you're that
insane, Paul. Do you believe that?
He's using, like, a lot of dashes?
So it's weird when you stop leaving it, you might wake up.
Didn't we always say that we were part of the movement?
Not all of it, of course. We changed the world.
But try and follow it through in capital letters.
Get off your gold disc and fly. What?
Don't give me that Auntie Gin shit.
In five years I'll look back as this different person.
Don't you see? That's what's happening now?
And if only I knew then what? I know now.
You seem to have missed the point.
Excuse me if I use beetle space to talk about whatever I want.
Obviously if I they keep asking beetle questions, I'll answer
them and get as much John and Yoko space as I can.
They ask me about Paul and I answer.
I know some of it gets personal, but whether you believe it or
not, I try and answer straight and the bits they use are
obviously the juicy bits. I don't resent your husband.
I'm sorry for him. I know the Beetles are quite
nice people. I'm one of them.
They're also just as big bastards as anyone else, so get
off your high horse. By the way, we've had more
intelligent interest in our new activities in one year than we
had throughout The Beatles era. Finally, about not telling
anyone that I left The Beatles, Paul and Cline both spent the
day persuading me it was better not to say anything.
Ask me not to say anything, because it would hurt The
Beatles and let's just get the Peter out, remember?
So get that into your Pretty Little perversion of a mind,
Missus McCartney. The Kants asked me to keep quiet
about it. Of course the money angle is
important to all of us, especially after all the petty
shit that came from your insane family.
Slash inlaws and God help you out, Paul.
See you to see you. In two years, I'll reckon you'll
be out then, in spite of it all, love to you both from us too.
PS:. About addressing your letter to
just me. Still.
And he actually wrote to just Yoko.
And then he crossed out Yoko and wrote me.
So it seems like he's upset that they weren't.
She didn't address the letter to him and Yoko.
That's just odd. Yeah.
You know. Like, is he not his own
individual person? I know helped him write the
letter. Maybe it's very there's a lot of
capital letters and a lot of dashes.
Very angry. Yeah.
So seemed like they were
fighting. There some bad blood.
It is interesting. He's like addressing it to
Linda, but like, it's also to Paul.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
I wonder if Paul helped Linda write it, If maybe she.
Knew that she was. I don't know.
I didn't know that. I don't know that Linda was
involved in any kind of fights or attention, so it's just
interesting. In 1971, Paul and Linda as a
single released the song Another Day, which is one of my
favorites. It's very Day in life talks
about a girl slipping into stockings, stepping into shoes
at the office, drinks another coffee.
It's very lyrics like that, and in the lyrics book, Paul said.
The person I'm gazing at here just so happens to be a version
of Linda living alone in New York before I met her.
I like to think that I'm the man of her dreams who shows up and
then this isn't really related to Linda.
But I just liked what he said about this song, He said Think
Eleanor Rigby meets Hitchcock's Rear Window.
For much as I hate to admit it, there is a bit of a voyeuristic
aspect to this song. Like many writers, I'm a bit of
a voyeur. If there's a lit window and
someone's in it, I will watch them hands up guilty.
It's a very natural thing. Hands up.
Guilty. I relate.
I'm very curious about people too.
I mean this old podcast. Yeah, yeah, no shit.
I feel like Paul would understand this podcast.
I think he would too. It's art, yeah.
And he's written a lot of love songs.
He's, I would say, like the most sentimental of The Beatles, I
think. I think he'd like it.
Yeah. Should we get him on the show?
That would be a crazy. Guess Oh my.
We should try. Just kidding.
Do you say we should try? Yeah, yeah, let's e-mail his
manager. Whatever.
September 1971. Wow.
I can't believe we're still in like the early 70s.
It moves faster later, though. It's not going to be like this
slow. Their daughter Stella was born.
You guys may have heard of her. Stella McCartney, the fashion
designer. Crazy.
I actually didn't know that that was their daughter until like a
couple years ago. Yeah, so you know, she really
made a name for herself, Yeah. In like a different industry.
Yeah, I mean, I guess the her mom was a photographer.
Fashion Similar. That's true.
Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
Yeah. Her mom probably knew a lot of
magazine people. Yeah.
There's a little bit in nepotism, little nepotism.
But Stella, you've done great for yourself.
Yeah, you know, it's it's, it's good to see someone actually
have talent if they're gonna be an ebo baby, You know?
Exactly. Yeah.
I think people just don't like it when they don't have talent.
Yeah, yeah, usually. But they're usually they do.
But no, not always. I think people get upset when
someone is an EBO baby and they are famous, but they don't have
the talent to support it, you know?
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's just the hardest
thing is to even get in the door.
So it's frustrating. I mean, honestly, these days it
seems like everybody is a nepotism baby, you know?
Seriously, it is like a royal class or something.
Yeah, but there's really no way to regulate that.
I mean, you can't fall people for using their connections.
That's what people have to do. There is no way to regulate,
yeah. I don't want to live in a
society that's like regulating. Yeah, exactly.
You can't say the double ace from your parents.
So yeah, you can't say the people can't get ahead because
they have connections. Anyway, Wings went on tour.
1973. Wings released their second
album, Red Rose Speedway. Linda's photo is used as the
cover. Then McCullough and say well
left wings. So now the band is just Paul,
Linda and the guitarist Denny Lane.
OK, he's not really a third wheel.
Yeah, people, yeah. And people were still really
critical of Linda's involvement in Wings.
But like, why do people care? It's not, like, hurting the
band. I know.
It's like she she was there from the beginning when it was
formed. It's not like she just, like,
joined it. I know.
Like let them. Be December 1973, they released
a very successful album, Band on the Run, and Rolling Stone named
it best album of the year. Oh wow, that's a huge
achievement. It is.
It is a great album. September 12, 1977 Paul and
Linda had their son James, so now they have 4 kids.
And yeah, they're living a very grounded, normal life, mostly on
the farm. As I said, they had no nannies
or housekeepers even and families living as vegetarians
is very, very farmy very country up in Scotland.
That's sweet. December 8th 1980.
This is when John Lennon was tragically shot and killed, as
we discussed very in depth episode 3.
Even though you know earlier I read that letter from John.
Around this time, Paul and Linda had really patched up their
relationship with Johnny. Yoko and Paul and John were
hanging out again, casually playing music again.
So I know. So it is nice that they were on
bedded terms now. But yeah, it is so sad.
And Linda actually took a picture of Paul from her car
window and it shows Paul buying a newspaper.
He's kind of like hunched over and.
All around him are all these papers and signs that say John
Lennon shot Oh my God, I don't think I've ever seen him.
I haven't seen that photo. It's like the day after John
died. I know it's very heartbreaking.
Another hard time, wings actually broke up, but Paul kept
making music. I think Linda kind of stepped
back from it. 1987 Linda's first major photography exhibition
happened in. Bath, England.
She had had shows over the years, but this was a big
exhibit at the Royal Photographic Society, so it was
a big achievement for her. In 1987, Paul and Linda were on
the Wogan Show and she was asked if she ever felt in Paul's
shadow. And I actually have a clip I
would like to play. Being married to Paul McCartney,
it's very easy to live in the shadow, isn't it?
Did you did you feel a necessity to to break out?
No, I'm not really worried about that.
Living in the shadow, you know, I I love life and I'll just have
a good time. Shadow or no shadow, do you
encourage Linda to to go out and do this stuff as well?
No, it is true, you know, because she's my wife.
Some people do look at her and sort of think, oh, it's the only
reason people look at her photos is because it's.
Exactly. The wife of the fella, but she's
a really good photographer. One of the best, I reckon.
Well, it seemed like she had already achieved success before
she met Paul. Like, didn't you say that she
was the first woman to be featured on, what was it?
Rolling Stone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she was.
I know that's just that just happens, you know.
In 1989, Linda published the Linda McCartney's Home Cooking
is a Vegetarian cookbook. It was the biggest selling
vegetarian cookbook ever in the UK and.
Was a bestseller in the States as well.
Wow. And by the way, guys, I know I'm
skipping over a lot, but this is just, you know, this one of
those big couples. It's it's hard to you can't cut
everything. Yeah, so a lot of things that
kind of consolidated, but I know that there's things being left
out. 1991 Linda formed the Linda McCartney Foods, a line of
frozen vegetarian meals. And it's still a company to this
day. It oh wow, frozen food, healthy
vegetarian, vegan frozen meals. And it's in supermarkets in the
UK, Norway, Ireland, Austria, Australia, South Africa and New
Zealand. But we don't have it in the US.
So I actually had never heard of it, but I think it's kind of
like that brand Amy's, you know? Oh, wow, wow.
She was an entrepreneur. I know.
Yeah, I think it's actually like quite a popular brand, but we
just don't have it here. So wow, Frozen.
But if it is. I know.
I bet if it was here I would buy it because I do buy frozen
meals. I do not.
In the back of the box, the packaging, it has Linda's
pictures and signature actually like on Google.
It seems like a lot of people Google.
Is Linda McCartney food related to Paul McCartney?
Like, some people don't know or they're confused.
So Yep, that's the same Linda, but very sadly.
In 1995, Linda was diagnosed with breast cancer, and she
began grueling chemotherapy and surgeries in 1997.
She's still going through treatment and everything.
Paul was by her side through everything.
Paul released the song Calico Skies, which is supposed to be
about Linda. I mean, I think most of his
songs around this time are, but in the lyrics, he says.
It was written that I would love you from the moment I opened my
eyes in the morning when I first saw you Gave me life under
Calico skies. I will hold you for as long as
you like. I will hold you for the rest of
my life and in that lyrics book that you gave me, Paul said.
If Linda was asked what her sign was, she used to say no parking.
I never paid much attention to astrology, and I think that's
because there was endless chatter about star signs in the
60s. For what it's worth, I'm a
Gemini. But then he went on to say that
the song was kind of about like fate, and that it was written in
the stars, that he was destined to be with Linda.
I just thought that shows, like, how she's kind of funny and
chill girl. Like, yeah.
What's your sign? No parking.
That's cute. I want to say that next time
someone asks me. But for what?
It works on the Gemini. Yeah, and then 1998 in Tucson,
AZ, April 17th. Linda sadly died of breast
cancer at the age of 56. Same thing that Paul's mother
had died from. Oh my gosh, that's tragic.
So young. Wait, so Arizona.
That's, that's what are what were they doing there?
Did they live in Arizona? Did you say that?
Well, she went to school there and I think she just really
liked it there, so yeah. They had returned there.
OK Yeah, that's awful. I know.
And the kids were the kids pretty young.
Heather was 36. Mary was 27, Stella was 26, and
James was only 21. Oh, that's awful.
I know. And Paul and Linda had been
horseback riding together only days before, but the cancer had
spread to her liver and the end came rather quickly, actually.
Oh, that's awful. And this is kind of
controversial, but Paul has said that he knew that she only had
about a week or days to live before her death.
But that he decided not to tell her, he said.
I didn't think she'd want to know.
Oh my gosh. I was thinking a lot about this,
though. I mean, I think that she clearly
knew she was dying. I think the like a person knows.
Yeah, and she had stage 4 cancer.
So it's not like she didn't. It's not that she didn't know
she had cancer. She knew she had cancer.
She knew. Where it had spread and
everything, she just didn't know, the doctor said.
It might be like this week or anything, but I do think, you
know, sometimes at the end of someone's life, it's not really
the time to be completely honest or to be real or to be harsh,
yeah. And I mean, this is just my
opinion. I know this is very
controversial, but I do think that the mind and body are very
connected and that like if she knew.
She was going to die that week. She might completely lose hope
and, you know, might have actually lost a few days or so.
So yeah, I mean, it's a very tough, very tough call.
That is really tough. I understand that though not
wanting the person their last few days to be wrought with fear
and sadness, like the fact that they were able to go horseback
riding and to still live with hope of tomorrow, I think it
makes it a lot less scary. Mmhmm.
Uh. And she definitely knew.
I mean, it's not like she had no idea she had cancer or anything.
Yeah. And I think, like you said, the
mind and body are connected, that it's like you might not
need to tell somebody that for them to know that's true.
Like you don't know. You don't know what that feels
like to be in that position. True, uh, but that is a tough
situation though, 'cause I could see the other side of it being
like. Yeah, Um, I don't know.
I mean, I I think ultimately like, I don't know if I would
do. I don't know what I would do.
That's a really hard situation. But like, I guess someone might
be able to like if they had some type of regret or if there was
something that they really wanted to do, call somebody up,
like to give them that chance. But obviously she she knew she
was going to pass away, so. When I first read that, I, like,
almost didn't believe it because I did think it was bad.
It was like, oh man, I feel like you should tell somebody, but.
I started reading a bunch of people's stories, and it kind of
convinced me that maybe it's not so bad to keep it from someone
because, yeah, it does give them a little hope.
And oh, that's so funny. I mean, maybe, maybe the person
themself is hoping that it won't actually happen.
Yeah. In Denial tell, you know.
Yeah, I don't know. It's very tough.
It's interesting that doctors would tell him, but not I know.
And I was reading all these people's stories talking about
this, and it seems like it is a common thing.
I don't know why or how. That's interesting.
Yeah, Paul said his last words to Linda were you're up on your
beautiful Appaloosa stallion. It's a fine spring day.
We're riding through the woods, the blue bells are all out and
the sky is a clear blue. I had barely got to the end of
the sentence when she closed her eyes and gently slipped away.
Our family is so close that her passing left a huge hole in our
lives. We will never get over it, but I
think we will come to accept it. Total heartbreak.
My gosh, I. Know life is so full of
suffering. It's awful.
I mean, it's beautiful and awful like that.
You can love so deeply that. It's just.
I can't imagine how emotional that must have been.
I know. Linda was cremated in Tucson,
but her ashes were taken back to England, where Paul spread them
on their family farm. Memorial service was held at
Saint Martin in Fields in London, with friends and family
in attendance including George Harrison, Ringo Starr, Billy
Joel, Elton John, David Gilmour and Peter Gabriel among a
congregation of 700 people. And during the service, Paul
spoke and said after she died, I was thinking of her and I
thought of her like a diamond, a big orange diamond.
And if you looked at all the fats facets of the diamond, as
with every facet you looked at, she was greater.
But. And he said that he couldn't
believe that his wife of nearly 30 years was dead.
But I have to, because it's true.
And then the Brodsky Quartet played eight songs that he wrote
for his wife, including the lovely Linda.
From Calico Skies and a single pipe player played Mull of
Kintyre which was kind of inspired by their Scotland farm
and was a wings song and then apparently everybody there
saying let it be, which I feel like I would just start.
Falling like 700 people singing Let it be I cry about it right
now. My gosh I have chills right now.
After her death, along with eight other British composers,
he created a choral album, A Garland for Linda, which was a
classical album dedicated to her.
That's such a beautiful song though to play cuz I mean even
how he said like I can't believe it but I have to believe it.
It's like, I mean that really is like with let it be like yeah,
there's nothing you can do. Like it's beyond your control,
so. And then he also really sweetly
compiled Linda's solo songs and released the album Wild Prairie
by Linda McCartney. And it includes 13 original
songs by Linda, most never heard by the public before.
Oh wow, what a tribute to her. I know.
And it's it's nice because, you know, a lot of times people were
saying like she's not a musician and then he published this
album. It's just her.
So yeah, it was nice. Paul has said that during their
30 year relationship they only spent eleven nights apart.
Wow. I know that's incredible.
I know. And most of those were actually
against their will because he got arrested in.
Tokyo for having marijuana. So we had to go to jail for like
10 days. So what?
So ten of those He was in jail. That doesn't count.
Wow. So that's cute that, you know,
like, I wonder what the other day was.
I know. Wow.
I don't know. Try.
My parents have been married over a little, a little bit more
than 30 years. I wonder how many nights they've
spent apart. I had to guess maybe like 50.
Hmm, six. It's pretty low.
I don't know. Yeah, I guess that is pretty
low. But for celebrity, it's not like
I know, you know, traveling all the time independently.
They just did everything together.
Wow. There have been many exhibits
since her death of Linda's photography, which is really
nice and Paul told BBC Radio. I think I cried for about a
year, on and off. You expect to see them walk in
this person you love because you're so used to them.
I cried a lot. It was almost embarrassing,
except it seemed the only thing to do, yeah.
And then in September 1998, he didn't interview with Jules
Holland. And about Linda.
He said as a wife, Linda was the best that anyone could ever
want. I always thought of her as my
girlfriend. I still do, really.
And even though we kind of spent years.
We spent years together. Our relationship never really
altered much. We grew to know more about each
other, but was just sort of girlfriend and boyfriend.
Oh, that's so sweet. It is he's he has said a similar
thing like that like many times that it just kind of felt like
they were boyfriend and girlfriend the whole time.
That's so cute. Yeah.
I mean he has said and others have said that their
relationship wasn't perfect. I mean.
We we shouldn't think that they had this, like literally
perfect, idyllic. I think marriage, I feel like
that's so easy to do when one person dies prematurely, too.
Like it's just so easy to look back and romanticize it as like,
you know what could have been? People even do that with like a
couple like JFK Junior and Carolyn Bessette, and I'm sure
they actually had a really rot marriage, but yes.
Yeah, they did fight I and some things, I don't know if they're
true or not, but like some, you know, Paul was a controlling
person. I I love him and I get that
that's kind of his like fatal flaw is he has a lot of ideas of
how things should be and he can be a bit of a control freak.
And I do think, like in wings, there were.
Sometimes fights sometimes I I apparently I don't know if this
is true but even about her music abilities but it was his idea I
think for her to be in wings. So it's not that their
relationship was completely perfect, but I do think that
they were the loves of each other's lives and that they
really influenced each other. I mean, Paul went very nature
for me and I I do think that's an influence of Linda.
And then I think he influenced her too, you know, to tap into
her musical side. And they had beautiful family
and I do love them as a couple and it is sad, but I do think
she was love his life and that lyrics book I mean.
Spoiler I'm going to get to it in a second.
But he has had two wives after. Yeah, and he talked about Linda
probably like 75% of the time. Like he mentioned Linda so often
is he currently married? He is so after.
Well, he did. I was going to say before I get
into the other relationships that he in 2000 donated
$2,000,000 to. Research, Cancer Research
facilities in Tucson and New York where Linda had received
treatment and they're made on the condition that no animal
would be used for testing purposes.
That's sweet. So that's nice.
I mean, 2 million? Yeah.
Really. Honoring her, her legacy and her
wishes too. With that, that's, yeah.
So. Also in 2000, though, he started
dating and later married the model Heather Mills.
I didn't know that. I mean, guys, we're American.
Like, we don't know all the same celebrities.
But I didn't know that she was an amputee, actually, that she
had lost her leg below the knee in a traffic collision, but that
she had continued modeling with a prosthetic.
But his kids were very against his relationship with Heather.
And it caused a lot because I think she was a lot younger and
it caused a lot of strife in the family.
His son James stopped, stopped talking to him altogether.
That's really tough, I know. And they were married in 2002.
They had a kid together, Beatrice.
But then they separated in 2006 and then divorced in 2008, and
the relationship did just seem like a mess.
There was like a lot of drama in the press.
And she wanted £250 million from the divorce.
Wow. But she got to 50 million.
It was just it was very. It's a pretty good settlement
though. It was, yeah, 50 million, I
know. And it was, it was just weird.
Like Paul had never really been in headlines like that.
And I think it was kind of strange for people.
And it's just sad. I don't know.
But yeah. But then he did remarry again in
2007. He started dating Nancy Cheval.
I hope I said that right. She was a businesswoman.
She's actually a cousin of Barbara Walters.
Yeah, they married in 2011. They actually got married in the
same town hall where him and Linda married.
Which is interesting. I that would be a little like
weird. I don't know.
I know. I don't know how I feel about
that. Maybe he feels like it's good
luck. Or I could see.
I could see getting married in like, the same church, to be
honest with you. But, like, I don't know, the
same time hall, Like, that's like, less sentimental.
It's not like, it's like, oh, this is the town hall I grew up
going to. Yeah.
And yeah, it would really trigger a lot of memories, I
know. And if I was his wife, I'd be
like, want a new town hall. Yeah.
People are always surprising you on this show doing wacky things,
I know. But him and Nancy seem good.
You know, these. It seems like a nice
relationship. That's good.
Yeah. Do they have children?
Is she a little? Is she, like, more age, closer
in age to his? She's 63.
Oh, OK, Yeah. That's a lot closer in age.
Yeah. She already had a kid, so yeah,
yeah. I mean, he's still 20 years
older. But yeah, when you're that age
is, you know, yeah, relative. That's really the story of Paul
and Linda. I mean, there's a lot more to
explore if you want to read more about them, but that's Paul and
Linda. Wow, it is sad.
But like I would say, I don't think I said this on the
podcast. But as sad as it is, it's like
for her story, she, I mean. I wish that she could have lived
longer, but she died, you know, still in love with her husband
and her husband in love with her.
Like, it is really so hard to be the spouse that goes on, you
know? After that it is.
It seems like it was very, very hard for Paul, and it almost
seems like he rushed into his next marriage and it's very hard
to be the one left behind. Yeah, I could see that.
Being hard for the kids too, I know.
That's good. And him and his son.
And for us with kids, they've patched things.
Yeah, yeah. So since this is our 50th
episode, I wanted to read through our names, our name,
ideas that could have been that almost were.
A Tale of two people. Hey, you're jumping ahead.
I have the spreadsheet, but yes, one of them was a tale of two
people. We almost did that.
That one we were like, huh, I kind of like it.
Like we we really. That one became close.
Nobody else really felt it, though.
I felt like we were The Beatles, you know, just meeting up and
like just shouting out ideas. You and I like a couple days.
We just were together, just saying ideas.
Out loud. You know what this was like
before ChatGPT. I wonder what names like if we
asked it to come up with names, what it could have given us, You
know? OK, I'm going to read them.
One of them was Relationship Rewind.
That was one of my that was my suggestion.
Yeah, that was a good one. Yeah, I'm not sure what my
problem was with that. I was like stuck on.
I don't know why. I thought it was like too
technology. Yeah, you thought it was a
little too 90s. It does date it.
Kind of like if we did podcast like a episode about someone a
little bit more historical, like, you know, before
technology. That's true.
Like Albert Einstein doesn't really.
Yeah, but whatever. Dating history and relationship
history? Yes, yes, yes.
You know when someone says like, you know which what's their
relationship history, what's their dating history?
You know, a little play on words.
Archive of the heart Archive of the heart A little bit
contrived. Oh, then, significant lovers.
Significant lovers. I don't know if I should say
this on the podcast, but we this one was.
Our favorite as soon as we came up with it.
But we saw that there was another podcast called
Significant Others that was pretty similar.
I don't know if I should say you can cut this out, but it was
pretty similar in concept. But they hadn't been doing any,
like they hadn't had a new episode in like a couple years.
We were like, we can't do that name.
It's too similar, it's too similar.
And then we ended up messaging them on Instagram to say we're
thinking about doing this name but.
You know, we want to get your blessing.
We want to know like if you're still active, they didn't
respond. So then we were like okay, like
they didn't respond, let's use the name.
And then as soon as we decided on it, they responded and they
were like, actually we would prefer for you not to.
And it's kind of a difficult situation because we don't
really need their permission. Like it is a different name and
it is like common phrase as well.
So tricky but but now. But now there's a new podcast
called Significant Others. Exactly, which is the same exact
name. Yeah.
So I don't feel bad anymore. Yeah.
Yeah, significant. One else came out with the same
exact name, and Lovers is technically different.
It is different, yeah. It's a play on words, where the
other one is just the phrase itself.
And there's so many like. True crime podcast and
everything. I think we're, you know, pretty
distinct enough. So another one was a play on our
old podcast, Another Bite of Twilight, if anyone from that
audience is here. Thanks for joining.
But it was called Another Love in hindsight, which I was being
proud of. This idea part of me, I don't
think it stands alone though. Like, I think you'd have to be a
fan of the old podcast to kind of get it another love.
In hindsight, I know it did work out as a great rhyme.
Like, it sounds the same, but I did think it would be a bit
weird for people who didn't know another by a Twilight.
They might be like, what exactly?
I feel like that because why another?
I guess each episode is another love.
I don't know. It could have worked.
Yeah, I feel like the old podcast would have had to have
been a little bit bigger and we had a history of love and then
love history and love history 101.
Kind of simple, yeah. There's nothing wrong with them.
I think we just thought they weren't, like, exciting enough.
Relationship retrograde, That sounds.
A little bit too. Hippie.
I don't know retrograde and then bygone babes.
This one we were laughing hysterically over bygone babes.
This is when we were a little bit too deep in the thesaurus,
looking up synonyms. Not our best idea, but it was
like the funny I. Love an alliteration.
And then, Speaking of honey, history.
Like honey. Yeah, A little vague.
Someone might think it's a podcast about honey.
Yeah. Beekeeping.
I could see that being confusing our separate ways.
I feel like, am I correct? My sister Caitlin really liked
this one. I thought Shannon came.
No, you're right. Shannon liked this one.
Caitlin liked exes and. Bows, bows, exes and bows.
She loved that one. We thought that.
I thought that one was just a little bit too, like,
heteronormative because like bow or, I mean, I guess an ex could
be anybody. But I thought bow was like, that
kind of means a boyfriend, right?
Yeah, I liked it. But just to me, nothing compared
to significant lovers. Really.
Yeah. So then we had our separate
ways. Love legends, famous flings, old
flames, old flames. I really liked this one.
But wasn't there a firefighter podcast called Old Flames?
Yeah, there was. And we didn't love the word, old
being one of our, you know, one of two words, one.
Of the That's true, yeah. Tale of two people.
As we said, people didn't love that one.
No. We loved it, yeah.
Didn't we make a poll that we sent to people?
Like a survey polled our. Friends and family?
Yeah, that one didn't get the response we expected over and
done with. But The thing is, we don't cover
just broken up couples. That's true.
Yeah. Another one, Love No More came
up with that one. Some of them are really
negative. I know.
Heart failures. That's a good play on words.
Heart failure is the next one is so boring.
Famous couple. Was that actually an idea?
It does that he would a couple. Famous couples.
I mean. Honestly, The Cliff helped with
like SEO Famous Couples podcast. True.
That's what it is. Yeah, it's like, but yeah,
that's kind of limiting. That's true.
Ended. Vintage love.
I like it. I like it, but they're not all
vintage. And I do think that's true.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, does like last
year count as vintage? Sometimes we do stuff from last
year. Love timelines, Yeah.
Yeah, that is past loves. Past loves.
I liked past loves a lot. But I think that that was also
taken by another podcast. Yeah, same with past lovers.
Or no, not Past lovers wasn't but too similar.
Too similar, Yeah. Yeah.
Strangers to lovers. I like that.
Actually, yeah. Everybody is, yeah, at one
point, legendary loves. Do we ever say that?
I feel like we said love legends.
Oh, just switching the words around, yes.
I feel like when we were brainstorming, we would
literally like, repeat the same idea that we as if it was no,
yeah, we're like, what about Vintage Love?
We already said that. Yeah, because you'll see down
the line it says Vintage Valentine.
Nice alliteration. The thing about Valentine is
that's our family name, so it would have been nice to use
that. Yeah, heart history.
I think I might have come up with that.
It's cute. Oh, then this was our real
runner up that we almost went with.
We almost did the night they met.
Yes, another version of that was when they met.
Yeah, I like, I really like it. Like, I think it's it's not
super obvious what it's about, but it's like it feels a little
poetic in a way. Yeah.
And it was kind of a play on the Lord Huron song The Night We
Met, which is a tragically beautiful song.
But when we surveyed people, they were all really hung up on
the fact that the episode wasn't just about the night they met.
Yeah, and what if they didn't meet at night?
But that's not a problem. But then.
Again, those people taking it too literally.
People don't get sarcasm nowadays.
Like, come on, it's not literal, it's just a idea.
It's like every episode that. They obviously met at some point
and then the story evolves from there.
But I see what people were saying.
I like the one that we picked. I think significant lovers, like
that's what it is. These are lovers who are
significant, Yep, and significant others.
And it just works. I love it.
I used to kind of cringe at the word lovers, but now I don't.
It's a beautiful, nice lover. Do you cringe at the phrase Make
Love a little bit? Yeah.
So, you know, I was just in Michigan and I was singing that
song. Then I was in Northern Michigan.
I went to the UP to anybody listening from there.
I had a great time. But the whole time I was singing
the all summer long by Kid Rock. But every time I get to that
part where he's like Make Love about the leg to one favorite
song, yeah, it kind of makes me crazy.
Yeah, I feel like people never really use it in like a serious
context. Yeah, very hippie, very 60s.
Yeah. It was weird because I was just
with my friend, so it would be like we were trying different
things, we were smoking funny things and then we get to the
making love part. No, we're not doing that this
week. Making love.
Yeah, that was the theme song though.
Well, thank you Mel, so much for accompanying me on this Paula
Linda episode. Thank you for leading it.
Now can you give us a little teaser?
A little, yeah. What our next episode on Patreon
is going to be about, Yes, so next week's episode is going to
be about a couple from the 20 Tens, a tall British guy.
We love an American girl with very big eyes.
Wow, I think I have some ideas. All right, tall British guy,
American girl, big eyes. Think about it.
One one of these days, I want to do prizes for the first person
to guess it. Me too.
That is my dream. That's my dream.
And everybody that's supporting the podcast, thank you so much.
You know, I do hope this podcast grows to the point where we can
give out prizes. Maybe we can even find a way to
retroactively give out some prizes.
Yeah and yeah, just thank you so much and everyone that listens.
We love you. We love you and we'll get back
together next week. Is your heart peeled with pain?
Shall I come back again? Tell me, dear.
Are you long term to?