Are You Lonesome Tonight? Do you miss me tonight?
Are you sorry? We drifted.
Welcome to vegan lovers. Welcome we are your hosts.
My name is Mel and I'm kill and thanks for joining us because
ins friends friends Miles. Can you say used to be remains
co-host, creative partner. Yep, neighbors.
Kind of live in the same neighborhood.
Yeah, best of friends. This is from our old podcast and
other weather Twilight. Where we talked about Twilight
and now this is our fifth episode.
Wow, of the Sith epizootic podcast.
And guys, This is a wicked long one so we're gonna waste no
time. We're going to just go right
into it. Okay so might as well just start
now and then this is when James Taylor met Carly Simon.
Wow, what's your perception of their relationship Kelly?
I don't really know anything. I I guess that he was kind of a
jerk or something, but I don't know anything else.
Yeah. Yeah.
Which surprised me. I mean, I'm not going to spoil
it, but he has such a soft voice and he's so like, his music is
so sweet. Yeah, so he seems.
So gentle. I really never knew anything
about them their relationship, and I would always get confused,
whether he was actually married to Carly Simon or Carole King,
but it's Carol Real assignment other girls hymen.
Yeah, Carly Simon was his wife of several years.
They had a beautiful relationship that I would
describe as yeah, bitter because that's not very beautiful.
It is a beautiful relationship. I just got its bitter, bitter
toxic. They're toxic.
Okay. Okay.
And then we good. I was heartbreaking.
I would say, but also very sweet at times.
So yeah, I can be that way. Yeah, exactly.
That's what made it so heartbreaking.
But yeah, our boy James Vernon Taylor.
He was born on March 12th, 1948. He was one of five children, the
second oldest, his dad Isaac. He was a doctor who I think is
like Well known in medicine and later became the dean of
medicine at the University of North Carolina.
And his mom Gertrude Trudy who's like a painter and a weaver and
a photographer. I think kind of I think I don't
know if that's like what she sounds cool.
Yeah, I don't know if it's like what she did or that was like
Hobbies. Yeah.
Part of being like a homemaker, I'm not sure he was born in
Boston, actually, he's a Boston boy, everybody connects, I know
seriously so many of our couples are massachusetts-based You
know, that and we're from Massachusetts.
And, but at age, three James's family, relocated to Chapel
Hill, North Carolina. Hmm.
I know this song Carolina in my mind and they would still go
back to Massachusetts. Though to spend the summers in
Martha's Vineyard. Oh, really?
That would be significant. I love my husband.
Yeah, they're big, big Martha's Vineyard family.
The Taylor's well I age. Seven James's.
Father actually went off on a two-year long expedition to
Antarctica. Really.
Hmm to do research there when he returned, he was an alcoholic.
Oh my God, how long is it for two years?
For some reason, I heard years, I thought months know about two
months, he came out about two years geez, that led to the
breakdown of his parents marriage, which had A big impact
on James and later on in his life.
I actually don't know how I know this, it's in my notes, but I've
read it somewhere that in therapy sessions with his
father, his father theorize that he subconsciously never loved
James has mom because his own mother died during childbirth
and so he never let himself get attached to his wife.
What kind of cruel? I mean maybe it wasn't
intentional but yeah. Subconsciously.
So obviously jeans is a lot of like, family trauma.
They're growing up in Martha's Vineyard in the Summers.
He met a guy named Danny kortchmar an aspiring guitarist
and they became they began singing folk music together and
coffee shops. As a duo called, Jamie & Koch as
teenagers. And during those 10 years, James
really struggled. He went to school called Milton
Academy in Massachusetts. Actually, it was a boarding
school and he originally had Really good grades, but he was
really depressed and struggled a lot with the pressure of school
and everything, and he would upwards of 20 times 20 hours a
day like, just sleep. So, when he was a teenager, he
checked himself into McLean, Hospital and Belmont.
Massachusetts are on Christian worked there there for many
years. Hi Christine, and he lived there
for nine months actually. Wow, and finish his school.
The Arlington school which is I think a school in the hospital,
which is crazy and he also wrote a ton of music while he was at
McLean's. So that just goes to show.
If you're going through a tough time you know something good can
come out of it and something beautiful.
Yeah and good for him for checking himself in.
I mean that's like the probably was like a lot more stigma about
that back in the day. I know that's what this little
sound wrong but it's like weirdly nice to hear.
Here because I don't know. I know, I know, it's so not true
at all but I always think of stuff like that is like being a
modern thing like teens are depressed.
You know. Yeah, exactly.
No. I mean, people have always been
struggling. Yeah.
I mean you can like struggle and still, you know, be like very
successful and a well-known musician and creative like, you
don't have to be ashamed of it and like, there's no nothing
wrong with getting yourself help.
So, Another better man. Yeah, I mean I probably could
have by actually has been made Danny.
Encouraged him to check himself out of the hospital after nine
months. And so then they headed to New
York and formed a band with their friend friends, Joel,
O'Brien, and Zachary Weisner called The Flying Machine.
In New York, James really struggled and experimented with
drugs. I know he started experimenting
with Heroin, which is friend. Danny was really upset.
About can like John Lennon. Yeah, that's so true.
Everything connects, I feel like messing around on her guys,
seriously, he would actually perform in Washington Square
Park and then fall asleep. Oh man, I know the band released
a music together, but it wasn't really a hit.
And he was just in a really bad place and was running out of
money in 1967. He was dropped by his manager.
He called this father, Isaac, who traveled to New York to
Stage an intervention and bring James, who was 10:19 back to
North Carolina, I was only 19. Mmm.
So we brought it back to North Carolina, to get help for his
drug addiction later that year. When he was sober James, then
moved to London with his friend Danny, and they got hooked up
with the Beatles talent scout. Again, connects to our last
episode and they played The Beatles.
James is demo of a song called something in the Way She Moves,
or they played To Paul McCartney and George Harrison, fillers
dull. I know I had and they stole the
line with the zong, something. And then he was, then the first
non-british artist to be signed by Apple records.
That's so cool. Mmm.
Yeah, so he really collaborating with the Beatles a lot
throughout his career. So he recorded his first album
in 1968. And yeah, again, collaborated
with the Beatles on this album. During this time, a close friend
of his named Suzanne who used to get high with had actually
committed. Suicide, I don't think they ever
romantically linked, but she was inspiration for the song Fire
and Rain. The verse like, Suzanne the
dreams they made put an end to you.
I can't picture. Oh yeah.
But during this time, James also began using heroin again after
we're not home. 1969 after recording his first album, he
returned to the US and underwent treatment again in Chicago.
And there, they put him on methadone maintenance to get him
clean from heroin, but then he just got hooked on that instead.
So, no, not really looking good for James.
His first album James Taylor was then released which received
moderate success and he used the money from that album to then by
175 a Acres of wood on Martha's Vineyard.
Wow because he loves markers Vineyard so much and then he
began recording his second studio album Sweet Baby James
which in 1975 sold, 1.5 million copies in its first year and was
the number third on the Billboard Chart and was
nominated for several Grammys including album of the year.
And after his success, he began touring.
It was a lot of talk shows. He was even on the cover of Time
Magazine with the headline. The new face of the face of new
rock and who would look at this cover and say, that's the man.
I'm going to marry Carly. Simon really walking down the
street. She says, I was walking down the
street with my sister. We had just cramped in Indian
food into our mouths and were walking home and I looked at
that cover of Time Magazine. And it was James Taylor whom I
never met and I looked at him for Fairly far away.
And I said to my sister, I'm going to marry that, man.
Man, mmm that's crazy that you know, his music and least.
Yeah, so Dad and actually, they had met previously.
Oh, and Martha's still. Nice story.
Yeah, it is a nice story and I was just thinking I feel like
that comes up so often where someone will say and, you know,
with no evidence, I know I'm gonna marry that person and then
they do it. I've heard that too, it's so
weird and it's like, Do they just say it to like make it
happen or I don't know or do they say that a couple times?
I know I don't know because there was a brief period where I
would go on dates with people and then I would text my friend
Marissa like I'm going to marry that guy.
No way. See if that like would then be
the person would mirror but never would be well, did you
feel it? No, that's really what.
Think of someone here. Remember, can you think of
another example of someone who did that?
Well, my next episode. Someone do.
Okay, it's just such a common thing.
Yeah. Okay.
So miss Carly Simon, Carly Elizabeth Simon.
She was born June 25th in either 1943 or 1945.
No one knows what year she was born.
Not even Wikipedia. I don't know why I don't I'm
sure she's yeah, this happens with as I said in the Atlantis
one stages are slow. So yeah, it's weird.
Like, I always thought that like, celebrities like it was
just common knowledge, but their birthdays are.
But some of these people slip through the cracks?
Yeah, she is Carly. Simon of Simon & Schuster.
Her dad is Richard. L, Simon the co-founder of the
Shane Company who also happened to be a talented musician.
I did not know. I had no idea either.
Wow, so she comes from a lot of money, my God actually, but in
her book, she says that her dad had basically lost all of his
money and that she's not as rich as it seems.
Okay. I believe the word.
Yeah, everybody remind you. Everyone is like Cara Delevingne
to I know seriously. Yeah.
Yeah, like kind of connections seriously.
Yeah I though. Publishing heiress Carly Simon.
Her mom. Andrea Heidemann Simon was a
receptionist for Simon and Schuster but then also became a
civil rights activist and the board of directors for Riverdale
Mental Health, Association for 30 years.
Mmm. Yeah.
And she is the second youngest Carly of her siblings.
She also has sisters at Joanna, Lucy Carly and her brother named
Peter. She was raised in Riverdale, the
Riverdale neighborhood of the Bronx, and despite being well
off, she didn't have the happiest childhood.
Her dad was really cold and distant and struggled with
depression in her Memoir. She writes after two daughters,
he'd been counting on a son, a male a successor to be named
Carl when I was born he and Mommy simply added a wide to the
word like an accusing Chrome chromosome Carly Carly, Carly
Simon's. Yeah, yeah, sadly.
This is named Carl. Know, why did they want to avoid
in Carl's so badly? Because I, his dad's name or
something? Maybe, maybe at 7, she was
sexually abused by a family friend.
She my God, that's horrible. I know, and I ate she developed
a stutter which caused her to have a lot of anxiety and the
only Escape her with singing. Hmm.
I know but she got over that stutter in the 1960s.
At age, 16 her father, all actually passed away of a heart
attack and in 1964 Carly and her sister, Lucy formed, a musical
Duo the Simon sisters, where they would perform in none other
than Martha's Vineyard what and they were signed by cap records
and had a minor Hit And just before dating James Carly
actually was briefly engaged to a playwright named William.
Mmm and in 1970, Carly signed with Elektra, records and
released her self-titled album in 1971, which peaked at number
30 on the music charts, but it wasn't really a huge hit then,
all right? That's Carly and James.
Wow, so their backstories. Yep.
But like I said, they actually did meet before Carly saw that
Time magazine article. There's conflicting reports, but
They both obviously spent a lot of time in Martha's Vineyard
Carly's family would also go every single summer.
They had to know each other. Yeah, they knew of each other.
I think Carly says that James like she thought of him as like,
one of the cool guys on the island, she's a little bit older
than him though. Oh, didn't realize that.
So James had said previously, I thought she was quite attractive
but she was and still is four years older than I was.
So back then when she was 18 and I was 14 she was a bit less
approachable than she was. When I was 24 years old, make
sense. Yeah.
Yeah, it is. There are 14.
You don't have a shot with an 18-hour all no less.
It's like Karlie was a huge fan of James, though, especially
when he was a hit and she writes in her book, boys and trees that
she had seen a photograph of James and Joni Mitchell they had
actually dated previously and that she's 12.
Yeah and she felt like a nun. Explained rage toward Tony
Mitchell. That's so funny.
I know. I love it.
I love these like poke people. Yeah.
There's gonna be some more well-known names.
Later on coming up. I love this theme.
Yeah, there's very much conflicting accounts of when
they actually first met as adults though?
Mmm, if you look online, most sources say that they met at one
of Carly's perform, This is at the Troubadour and La however in
Carly's Memoir, she recounted differently that it was actually
a James is performance in New York City around Thanksgiving.
In 1971, she was invited to attend the concert and then
invited backstage to meet James. And I'm going to read a little
part of her Memoir under mean. I'm sure she said it then, yeah,
that must be true. I'm gonna take her word over
like the scholars writing about it.
So she says, once I laid my eyes on James a sense of possession,
overtook me as if as if a dog fence of little white flags, had
sprung out of the ground around him.
The women on the periphery knew just how far back they must stay
from the fence. To avoid getting an unpleasant
little joke through their system.
He turned toward me and his eyes hadn't even met mine when I said
before I could think if you ever A home-cooked meal while you're
in New York. I'd love to make lunch for you.
He looked somewhere in the direction of my chin with a
quick shutter staff of his eyelids and answered what about
tonight? Okay, sure sure.
I said yes, please. Sure let's lunch.
Yes, please. That's cute.
So after that concert, they went to an after party and they
danced around the room. Then they go to a friend's house
and they smoke weed, then they go to Carla create.
Yeah, then they go to Carly's apartment.
Apartment. And James asks, if they can get
in the bed and just sleep, just sleep.
Nothing more. And I'm going to read a little
page. Get from her Memoir, it's kind
of long. She says soft we were sheep
whose fleece covered every hard place.
We curled. We breathe it on each other's
necks. We moved.
We moved our limbs gently and discover the surface of each
other's skin. Very little hair covered either
of us. Not the full of sheep.
It was just Contender as rose petals, I was to Trembley to
know where the feeling was coming from, but James breathing
on my hair in my ear made rise and meet.
I think there's a typo in there, really, let me guy hair and made
my ear made rise. In me a desire.
You made rise and me desire, which equate, what comes before
hair? Or did anything it on my hair
and my ear made me rise made. Wait, reading on my hair in my
ear, made my made rise. And yes, whose are good.
Okay, think there's a typo in here?
Okay, I'm just gonna skip ahead. We just go to sleep with a
gentle unspoken suggestion from the man.
I had already lived for a year or more.
I spent every day with headphones on listening to his
second album. Sweet, Baby James, and
harmonizing with every song. Imagining looking into his eyes
and singing with him while singing along to James's song.
So I felt Of outlook on the world in a sense of becoming
part of the song, part of the story, The Voice, and even part
of a future. As if I could visualize future
Generations years, before I learned circle around the Sun
and had performed it as my solo, when Lucy and I were the Simon
sisters this year listening to James his first album.
I learned the folk song as James sing at harmonized and phrased.
As he did only altering the arrangement, a little our
versions could have been superimposed on each other's.
I was in the circle of his love. Wow.
And then she later writes, this was the same pre-adolescent.
Nabi need boy, who had been subconsciously making his way
around my dreams for years? That's crazy that she listened
to his music every day and now was lying in bed with him.
I know seriously, it's like a dream come true.
She does say, on this page about the first time they met and how
she was. So obsessed with him, not to
skip ahead. But many years later he would
accuse me of Thank him for being James Taylor which ironically he
meant disparagingly but it was right on in a very accurate
description of the way. I felt.
Hmm, interesting. Yeah.
But she agrees that she, like, loves his image more.
Something, I don't think so, but I feel like she's saying it in a
way that's meant to be endearing of like, yeah, I loved you
because you were James Taylor, but that's who you are like, you
are incredible. Yeah, exactly.
Like he's, he's like disassociated himself from the
image of him but yeah, that is who he is.
Yeah, Yeah, Mmm. So I get that, but we're getting
ahead of So almost immediately actually, after this first time
James moved into Carly's apartment in Murray Hill like
bright away and fur. Carly writes in her Memoir for
the next fan of time. He and I were never apart for
more than a few days. Then they took a trip to
Martha's Vineyard two weeks after moving in together, which
they both bonded over a lot since they both had connections
there and he showed her around the house that he was planning
to build. Wow, he actually named pond on
the property, Carly's bottom and Carly writes that in those early
days and she was very hesitant to give away how serious she was
about him. However, one day James randomly
shares with her that if they were to ever get married, they
would have two children. A girl named Sarah and a boy
named Ben. So, again, people just kind of
speaking the future. Yeah, yeah, yes, dance, that's
cute. I know, they actually spent a
weekend with James is Sister, Kate at Martha's Vineyard who
was dating a guy at the time, who was pretty terrible and
aggressive and just horrible and one night James yells at the
sister's boyfriend and tells him to leave.
And then says he's going to go outside and chop wood to like
get his anger out and Carly writes that in her Memoir as
he's chopping wood. He yells out Carly.
I love you what? I know yes that it dry And then
as he's really handsome know that's the first time she
learns. Was she there?
Or she was like listen the house that was so aggressive.
I think in like up in jeans, his sister's face.
So well and Carly writes about that.
The way I saw it that night James had seized the moment
protected. Sister had a catharsis and in a
fit of love-crazed wood. Chopping sunk my name up to the
Moon. Well, yeah, so only a few months
into their relationship. Carly goes to LA to record a
demo in James calls her to reveal that.
Their apartment actually had been flooded accidentally.
After he, let the water run night, but there was a problem
with the FAA. Asset.
So he like turn the water on and then it got like fixed but he
left the water running. No.
So he didn't like do it on purpose but I have a note to
read page 242. I don't know why I'm going to
read it. Okay, let's hear it less
important than the wallpaper was the moment I learned what had
happened. Is this Carly said, the familiar
gentle voice on the other end. This is James Taylor, not James,
but James Taylor as if after four months of pro pro fiction
nudity, It's fine. As he feared, I might possibly
confuse him with another James intention James has good manners
came out his civility. His old-fashioned North Carolina
gentlemen, - I honestly couldn't have cared less about the hot
water or the wallpaper or the condition ever record albums.
All of which seemed absurd and could be replaced.
The only thing I cared about was the sweetest kindest lease,
replaceable man on Earth was on the other end of the phone.
Just thought that was cute. That sounds we that year.
They also both won a Grammy but instead of Going to the Grammys,
they decided to just drive around and Carly writes in her
book. That James didn't show any
emotion about being nominated or possibly winning at all like
your hair, mmm. But that she secretly like was
really invested in wanted to know if she wanted to grab me.
That is a big deal. Okay, 1972, this is a year and a
half into dating. Carly is invited by Mick, Jagger
to go to a concert in San Disco where she's interviewing Mick
for the New York Times just before.
She's about to go, James starts, doing heroin in front of her
Carly and tells her that she needs to watch him do it.
So that he'll quit and Carly writes in her Memoir.
Watch. This is what James said.
Watch, I can't have you and the habitat, the same time.
I just can't. I've got to get rid of this.
Maybe. If you see me do it, it will
take away the cat and mouse game you have to watch me.
I have to let it go. Go.
So then what happened? So then Carly was really freaked
out by that. Soon after that, she goes to
London to record her second album, no secrets.
And she says, that James can only visit her for a few days of
time because he's in New York, but when he does, he's sleeping
all the time and he's clearly very depressed and she just
assumes that he's doing drugs and sleeping with other people
when they're not together but she doesn't ask about it.
That's something. I know, I know while in London
though, Carly, this is why it's confusing because like, it seems
like they're not really in a good place, but then Carly gets
a call from her sister Lucy that dreams drove to her mom's house
to ask for her hand, in marriage.
Oh, hmm. And Carly is really excited and
she says, yes, please always. Now, she actually calls him up
and says that after she finds out that he asks, always
however, meanwhile back in the London, Carly has a very flirty
relationship with Mick Jagger and really fantasizes about
sleeping with him, but they don't do anything, what?
They never actually sleep together, but there's a very
clear, sexual tension and he even tells her that he loves her
what I know. Wow.
Yeah. How can all this be happening at
the same time? I know.
I'm like getting confused by it, even though I did research on
this. Some people do people do just
kind of push. Things aside, exact 20 like can
have really bad morning and then a good night and I don't know
you know what I mean? Yeah.
And I think part of it too is like the star appeal like it's
Mick. Jagger like I feel like at that
time period anybody would have fantasies about someone who
they're working closely with who's like super famous and a
huge sex symbol. So I'll give her a pass for
know. It's crazy but car He is picking
up on James being pretty cold towards his exes actually.
And this, I found very interesting.
She recounts a time in her Memoir where she Witnesses James
talking. I think it's to Joni Mitchell.
Let me find it, she says, but your earlier during the first
weekend, I spent at the cabin Maggie had called him.
I think that's an X actually. So not Joanie James picked up
the wall, phone mounted on the beams.
During the living room ceiling and place.
Very politely. Never dropping his Southern
gentleman. Persona, he warned Maggie not to
call him ever again. And when he hung up the phone,
he started sweating at the time I thought his terseness was with
her was a side long way of making me feel more secure in
his life by proving Fruit by providing proof that his
relationship with Maggie was over and done with still what
had she done and what had gone. So terribly wrong that she
deserved to be guillotined like that.
Hmm, interesting. It's like when James cut someone
else, they're like done to him. I wonder why she was calling.
I know I wondered. Hi, yeah, that's interesting.
I have your baby. What?
I don't know why you're gonna say that.
That was something that was revealed or something.
No, I just said so hot in here. Oh my gosh.
I feel like I'm getting delirious.
But he's in his ice actually feel okay.
Oh, Really you? Because I'm in the audience.
Yeah. Probably.
I'm getting nervous. Okay.
I don't know, like, nervous. Looking good.
Yeah, guys. Listeners.
We get nervous for her. I know I have stage fright.
I love rock music. I love 60s 70s.
I love hearing about this. Okay, I don't know anything
about this. Okay.
Love I love hearing about relationships.
Okay, do you like weddings? Yeah, yeah I do.
Okay, I guess I went to more. Yeah.
Well so James and Carly. They're getting married, right.
But get this on the evening of their wedding, Bianca Jagger
Mick Jagger's. Wife calls up James and tells
him not to marry Carly because she's having an affair with Mick
Jagger. She had to be told that night, I
know after I think they had a short engagement So I'll give
her that but James says to Bianca, I love Carly and I trust
Carly and I'm gonna marry Carly. Hmm.
So he's not really fazed by it. Cool.
Was that true? No.
They weren't having an affair. They had a flirtation.
Okay, so Carl he's pretty annoyed by that interest but
James is really not fazed. So on the so they get married.
And it's A very quick wedding. Like they like plan everything
really quickly. It's very small and then
actually James plays a concert that night around City Music
Hall where he announces that him and Carly had just gotten
married during that earlier in the day it's crazy and Carly
legally takes his last name and rights at this gave her a sense
of power and that she felt incredibly safe and confident.
She says, never in my life had I felt as sure of anything as I
did about my new marriage. To James.
Wow. And in those early days of their
marriage, they had little alone time because of the NeverEnding
Renovations on their house, in Martha's Vineyard, it was just
like constantly contractors coming in like coming and going
working on this house. It's so regular.
I know it. I know it really is.
It's like one of their biggest stressors in.
Their relationship was the construction of this house,
which took years Is like years and years.
I've been a nice house. Yeah, it's very beautiful how I
love my husband eared. So this is cool.
Next time I go, whenever that is I'm going to think about that.
Yeah. You probably should go check out
the house. Yeah, and they because they had
little long time. They'd frequently sneak away to
Vang, can't summer. Houses in Martha's Vineyard,
just random people's houses, apparently, to have sex in them.
Yeah. So very romantic.
Yeah. And then nine In 73 Carly is
pregnant with their first child which she says makes her feel
even more in love with James and ever before.
But James is drinking a lot during this time period.
Oh man, let's see. I have another Passage Why?
Well that's gonna make a comment.
Maybe I should wait till end of the relationship to have
opinion. Okay, cuz I don't know the whole
story yet. So Carly rights on June 18th
1973 and her diary we're off to New York in a couple of minutes.
The day is cold and depressing, I'm not Lightning it any last
night? James got drunk.
Again, the problem is grave. He doesn't know why he needs to
go drunk, but says, he needs to at least four times a day.
I don't seem to satisfy him much.
I don't understand him when he says he needs me.
So down on himself that he relies not at all on himself but
on chemicals for happiness. He only speaks me out for
affection when he fears it's lost.
I'm so sad. He's more physical toward me in
the presence of other folk. Then when we Are alone.
He thinks interesting when I say, I love you that.
I am asking a question that I need something in return
patients. I guess.
Hmm. Wow.
Yeah. And during the song also, I mean
during this time period also they remake the song Mockingbird
together which Peaks at number five.
On the charts. It's like I forgot who sings
this song before them. But I think it came to them
because Carly is pregnant. So yeah, let's hear a little bit
of it. Do you wanna sure?
Yeah, I kind of want to do it. So, we just watched a cup of
them together. What did you think?
It's so cute. It is.
They look so goofy and happy silly.
She's beautiful. No, I do find him attractive.
Yeah, he is. He's also like picturing like
Martha's Vineyard. I know his house my chopping
wood. Yeah, he's so tall with his
little North Carolina and this that career really likes, oh, I
see what's or Tractive about him.
That is quite a red flag, though that he seems to only like, show
affection when he fears. Mmm, that she's like lost
interest. I'm just not sure how she
phrased it, but that he's not that interested until he thinks
me, you know, it's like a push-pull game type of thing,
you know. Yeah.
And it seems like that's how Carly feels a lot throughout the
relationship but then like forgets that feeling when he is
super affectionate towards her and is so willing to just accept
the good side of him and forget the bad, but that will keep
popping up more and more till she can't really ignore it.
Oh no. But good times, I still had so
many 74 and January, 7th or daughter, Sarah Maria, who they
nicknamed. Sally is born.
And during this time, it's super cute.
When Carly is giving birth, James pretends to be a seagull
to distract Carly. And from her pain and pretends
that, the contractions are ocean waves.
And so as she's giving birth he's like Carly look up is all
cute. And then while Carly is giving
birth. He also writes the song Sarah
Maria during it which he performs out of contr.
Again that night like dance teams, keep sending concerts the
same night of like huge life event.
Oh my God, that's impressive. I know, Norman Lear that night,
I know the lyrics are cute as well, the Moon is the ocean and
the stars are in the sky and all I can see is My Sweet Maria's
eyes. Oh, Sarah, Sarah Maria.
Hmm. So they're really big into the
beach and that ocean like that's not true.
So James Goes On Tour, while Carly is home in Martha's
Vineyard with the baby and while he's away, she ends up having
this feels super normal but she has a swimming pool built
without asking him. I mean it's not normal yeah
expensive but it's a normal fight I guess.
Yeah because I have a huge fight about this that she had a
swimming pool filled but was he mad about you?
The extends, or the expand, like, where was he didn't like
that. She didn't ask and those pretty
big deal. Yeah.
It wasn't like an inground pool. Get rid of that.
Yeah, and I think he had a problem with the fact that like
their living on the water like by the beach, and that she would
have a swimming pool Bill. He was like, why just, why would
you do that? Grunting her thought process
there? So yeah, yeah, but she said,
Says in her Memoir like I could have sworn.
I told them but I think it might have slipped her mind.
That would be like my parents but yeah.
My mom and dad. Yeah I can just picture my debt
like my mom coming home having bought something and my dad
being like yeah. Yeah.
It is to the next level because I guess I mean, pool is
something that I think a married couple would discuss.
Yeah, yeah, that is pretty extreme.
But when you have that kind of money it's like I don't know.
I get what he's saying, but they were celebrities, you would
assume they have a pool. Exactly.
Be kind of weird to be celebrity that out of bed.
I feel like rich and famous have pool.
Yeah, exactly. Carly also writes in her Memoir
that during this time, even though they are monogamous, they
allow each other to explore fantasies for the sake of their
music, like, in their head. So, those write songs like that.
Yeah, they'll write songs with other Muses and they don't
question. Question-it famous, he's well so
it's 1976 now and Carly believes that she is pregnant so she's
about to tell James but as she's about to tell him he tells her
that he needs to get tested for gonorrhea.
What? Hmm.
Are you kidding me? No, no.
So that's pretty bad. I'm really upset.
Yeah, I know. And she was so excited to I
thought they could only a fantasies I know.
So, obviously not so this kind of reveals that more is going on
than just that my God at first, actually she's really concerned
for him, but then she gets mad. And she actually tries to hit
him with the guitar, but he Dodges that and then she drives
away and rage and then comes back and she's a really
forgiving attitude. You just kind of lets it go
crazy. Yeah.
Then in 77 she gives birth. She actually was pregnant to
their second child. A son named been.
So as you said a girl named Sally and a boy named Ben.
And yeah, and this year they also do a sit-down interview on
The Dick Cavett Show and I thought I'd show you a little
clip. Let's hear it.
Tighten your apartment saying who's up and who's down and
whose record is wearing. Someone's eliminate the gold
records and that and the charts. And any news about how the
records are doing from, from the house itself.
What do you think the roots are stage fright?
Are they used to say in the book?
I read as a kid about the acting.
If you are nervous, trying to think why you're nervous.
Sounds like Richard Nixon and then that will help you to go
on. Have you ever tried to think why
you're nervous and then had it is 0.
I've never had it dissolved, but I thought a good deal about why
it exists. It's gotten soft a couple of
times already solved. I think I she's great on stage.
I think that she's She's suffering under the
misconception that she, that, that nobody else feels the way
she does but I think everyone who feel stage fright feels
often feels as badly as you do it.
I think the Carly just won't allow herself to feel too bad
witch. It is a terrific thing about
your no I don't I don't I don't mean to imply that at all.
I mean that she's buoyant, you know, she won't let herself sing
sink. And she yeah sink.
I don't know, I just really liked that clip like James is
voice. He's so soft-spoken and so
sweet. And so, I can just really see
how Carly could be in gym, because I'm going to say a lot
of things that aren't very sweet.
But no, I can see it too. That seems so real to, I know.
So back and forth. I love her huge smile.
It's so cute. Oh, she's beautiful.
He's kind of remind me of Joaquin.
Phoenix. Just like okay, yeah.
To like so, yeah, they aren't that interview.
I think they're really cute and they perform on stage together,
but Carly and her Memoir does, right that.
The marriage really is not what it appears to be to the public
at all. These says sorry, it's like I'm
reading from this too much. How do you have a good marriage?
That's one of my. No top questions in life.
I know I like specially articles about it.
But Liberty, Mary? Yeah, that's like a whole
different ballpark. Hmm.
She says, in her diary August 5th 1977, our relationship is
far from the ideal, like one that the general public reads
about James continues to escape, you can express, his angry
feelings to me, much more readily than his loving ones.
He tells me, he loves me either in songs, no little measurer.
When I am sleeping, and he's just turning.
He will say, I really love you Carly.
I'm I'm being a bummer and I'm too tired to respond still by
the end of every day. I always soften back to my
default position of delight and thankfulness that I'm married to
James mmm. She's so in love with James like
all these transgressions, everything.
She's so forgiving to him, and it seems like it, but he does.
Like, so it's confusing though in 1977 that year, he releases
the song. There we are on his album, Jade
T and these are the lyrics. Oh, I don't know if I told you
but you hold my heart in your hand and I found out something
about you, baby, without you. I'm a lonely man.
So though I never say that I love you.
I love you darling. I do Carly.
I do love you and though, we are as nothing to the stars that
shine above, you are my universe.
You are my love here. We are like children forever
taking care of one another, while the world goes on without
us, all around us, Mmm, what does he say?
So do I never say that I love you.
What's up with that? I know.
Oh yeah, he's definitely aware. He's not that affectionate.
Yeah, it's so interests it. It's just boggling.
Like he is so thoughtful. Seeming soft-spoken like you
said, and gentle and Introspective and you know it's
just it's such a contrast. I know.
Yeah and like I mean it kind of reminds me of it's so different.
But John Mayer, like he has such a reputation for being a sleaze
ball. I can see that but his music is
so romantic. That's how can this person
exists as an artist and as a person at the same time, like
James, his music is so loving and that that verse makes me
melt so though, I On. I never say that.
I love you. I love you darling.
I do Carly. I do love you so sweet.
I love the last part about like the world around us.
Hmm. Yeah.
I don't know, I think some people do love and can be very
sweet and romantic and affectionate and stuff but they
are just troubled. Yeah, I mean and James has been
troubled his whole life like he had a lot of mental health
struggles. He's young and obviously as you
mentioned his parents divorce greatly affected him.
So we think there's definitely an intimacy issue there.
Yeah. But and he also is obviously
cheating on Carly so I don't know what's up with that James,
you got to do better, my god do better.
You're gonna lose her. So I'm gonna say 1978.
They sing lead vocals on a cover of the song devoted to you for
Carly's album, which became My top 40 hit and Carly writes in
her Memoir that at this age. She isn't focusing on James as
much just because she's so busy with her music and the kids and
she writes it didn't occur to me at this time that James might
have had a girlfriend or that that girlfriend even had a name.
Hmm. And I feel like she writes in
her Memoir a lot that like she's struggling with now.
That like she's a mom. James just kind of sees her
like, as the mom of the children and not as like an attractive
young person that he fell in love with, which is looking hate
that, I know, sorry for my language, but I feel like that's
a common thing. Not even just with celebrities
River. And that's a fear of mine
someday, you know, I don't hate that.
It's like one thing. I just hate about our world, we
live in a society whatever, but, you know, I feel like one.
Someone becomes a mom. I think everyone stop seeing
them as a real human. I know that's like I'm mom, you
know, but they don't do that with dads.
If anything, it's like space. Sorry.
There's even more attractive to men when they become fathers.
Just stop doing that. Mmm, Next Movement that needs to
happen. I know seriously.
Sexualize the mom. Yeah that's change.
You're still an interesting person.
Like I know also someone has to raise the kid.
I know you do sweetie. I do think there is a little
bit. Sorry.
I'm like ranting. Now there can be a little bit of
like oh Mom's only talk about their kids or whatever but like
It's important to care about them.
Yeah, they're doing their jobs, you know.
Anyway, I know I thought just breaks my heart.
I know. So then in 1979 a close friend
of Carly's, casually mentions to Carly that James is girlfriend.
What her friend just casually mention?
Yeah, mentions something about James's girlfriend.
Assuming that Carly would already know my God and Carly
didn't know anything about it. Robot, I know.
And so apparently, James has been dating a backup dancer for
him. Named Evie was living in an
apartment on West 17th Street in Manhattan that James uses her
recording. So it's a studio living there.
But James owns, and James is really cold when Carly confronts
him about this. He doesn't even try to hide it.
He just acts very nonchalant about it so spooky.
Hmm, kinda reminds me of the book.
Look conversations with friends where they're like, just so
casual about this like, a fair that's going on.
She says, I confronted James about it going so far as to fall
onto the rug in despair. This isn't about, you James said
coldly, but if it wasn't about me who then was it about to
James feel as I did that, we were really not living but
merely simulating that something once clear sharp generous
infinite a window view looking out over some forever.
Landscape was now too hazy to see through How could you say
this isn't about you? I know she's your wife.
I know seriously, obviously she's a factor here.
Yeah, that's so selfish. Despite it's breaking my heart.
Carly writes in her Memoir that she kind of accepts that this is
just the way that rock and roll is and that she didn't know one
male musician who wasn't sleeping with random women on
the side, which makes me really sad like that.
True. I think it kind of is, I know,
like all the musicians today, are none of them faithful to
their wives at all. I know, I wonder that I wanted
to even about, like I just saw the national recently like that
bit there in like their forties now.
And I was even wondering like today, like still a couple
people. Yeah.
What's the deal? I don't know where or are some
musicians totally just boring and just, you know, go back to
the van or the Bus and yeah, I don't know.
I had a really good read out. Whenever I hear of any like
casual cheating ever done, something like this, like, is
this a thing about the whole world?
Like, no, it's cheating. Not commonplace at like someone
could be confronted about a, an affair and it's like no big
deal. I think it's a big deal.
Yeah. I think It is common maybe but I
do think rock and roll. It's a totally different thing.
I'm yeah, people like throwing themselves at you all the time.
Yeah probably always going out for drinks and stuff and meeting
people and traveling. And I don't not that I'm not
excusing it but I think that it's just crazy atmosphere.
But yeah, that does upset me everybody.
I know seriously. I mean Chris, you know the
Beatles what she knew the Beatles to oh yeah, yeah.
So I mean, I guess you probably know more than I do but like
does that include them cheating on their wives?
Well, we know, John did. I don't know the intricacies of
the others yet, I but I know that.
I mean, I fucking sorry. I'm sorry so much as I love all
you do. And I Thank him and Linda's
relationship. I haven't done like a deep dive
yet, but I would love to because I love them, but I hope he
didn't cheat on her because I think of them as like the
perfect relationship, but I know that before Linda, he did sleep
around a lot. Mmm.
So I mean you had a friend who was?
I'm not gonna say the band. Yeah.
But was a groupie for a well-known popular.
Pop ya boy band. Yeah, it's not the one you're
thinking of it's not the only, And they be saying this.
Yeah, but they seemed really squeaky clean from the outside.
Like you would think they're like Disney Channel type of
people. Yeah.
But they were having like orgies yeah.
She's leaving with me. Yeah, well, pupil and I might,
yeah, which, so I'm sorry. Disgust me but just like that
scale. Freaks me out.
Mmm, you know. I don't know I guess it just
makes you wonder like for men in general if they have access to
be able to sleep with whatever women they want.
Will they take advantage of it and at what cost I know.
So what percentage of men, I know, I want to see the data of
all the male musicians and rock stars and like how like, who was
the most faithful? Yeah.
And which ones for the cheaters? Because it seems like most of
them were cheaters and so casual, Maybe it's one of those
things where I do think who you hang out with, really can
influence your morals and just how you see the world.
And if they are like everybody does it then you think it's
normal. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. And Carly was influenced by that
as well because she felt very unloved and alone.
So she starts having an affair herself with a sound engineer
named. Scott lit, at her Studio Scott.
Got lit. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, guys, guys. Very lips.
I'm like a movie character. I know.
But, and by her music producer tells her that she needs to tell
James about this, why? I know James is already busy
with his girlfriend, her have anything to do with, I don't
know. So she tells James and James is
not fazed by it. And instead admits, I'm seeing a
few women myself. My jaws dropped right now and so
I'm sitting with you woman, my sarli later on thinks to herself
that this is the reason why James was unfazed by that call
from Mick Jagger's wife, right before their wedding.
Well, I'm doing that too. Yeah, yeah.
It was like an unspoken agreement at that point that
they're allowed to step outside the marriage.
Even though they did have a rule that they were Alchemist the
heck. No I feel betrayed.
It's really sad. So, Carly even writes a very
beautiful sad song about the state of their relationship.
It's called, we're so close. These are the lyrics, okay, it's
come to be a habit with me to dine alone.
You're never home in the evenings and so early.
He says, we can be so close from afar.
He says, the closest people always are.
We're so close that in our separation.
There's no distance at At all, there's a husky voice that
speaks to me in the dark and on the phone from Studios and west
side bars though. Tunnels of long distance.
He says we're Beyond flowers, he says we're fucked.
We're Beyond compliments. We're so close that we can
dispense with love. We don't need love at all.
That is so sad. I know it's so sad but honestly,
I feel like a lot of couples can relate to that like the feeling
of being so close with someone that like you let go of trying
and their relationship That's definitely a common killer of
relationships. Yeah.
It's a good reminder. Yeah.
To all you people listening out all you people attending people.
You love that. You love them.
No. Keep trying to woo the person.
Yeah that you're seeing I guess is if it's the beginning and
make offer to make them a home-cooked meal and top some
word and profess your love. It is a very loud.
Like they seemed so cute and lovely.
I know this is hard to hear. I know.
I feel like I skipped over Parts in her book to that like we're
really lovey-dovey, like she just loves jeans so much.
Would you have said that he felt the same way I think in a quiet
way he did. But I think she definitely came
on Stronger and was more vocal about her affection for him, but
he did love her, but it just seems like a lot of his love was
spontaneous though, like even his proposal, you know, because
during that time he also was really depressed and doing
heroin. So just kind of came out of
nowhere. But I mean like yeah like when
she was giving birth and he was true, it's cute.
No distracting. Her just it was inconsistent.
I kind of hate that though and like you can't really tell how
someone feels and they're being distant down all of a sudden.
Like, I love you and I didn't. Oh, so nice.
And I'm back to being down and we're exactly.
Exactly. It's like kind of a trauma Bond.
Like yeah, the fact that James set expectations solo.
Most of the time made the moments where he is present and
loving seeing so much more special.
Yeah, yeah. So yeah.
Another big stress in their marriage to was the fact that
their baby Ben was sick all the time.
There was one night where he was so sick and running a very high
fever and James was nowhere. In sight, he presumably was with
his girlfriend Evie Carly writes in her Memoir but then the next
evening Ben's fever was down and James bounce.
So we start. So finally James comes home and
they get the fever down. They stay up all night trying to
cool the baby down and Carly writes in her Memoir but then
the next evening Ben's fever was down.
Down and James bounced up. And told me that he had to go
pick up a friend, I'll be right back.
He said he didn't return until 8:30.
The following morning, I sat there in the living room.
Stone-faced either you're here or you're not.
I said wanly. All right.
Team said after a silence, I'll move out.
Right now. I said, all right, now I said
and I don't want the kids to see you again.
I'm calling a lawyer. I want a trial separation.
No, but so then James does leave the house and Carly is home and
she's really upset about it. Then the next day James just
comes back and they don't address it and carvings actually
relieved that he came back. I wonder if she, when she said
that like almost didn't mean it or want it or something.
I think she will. She said either you're here or
you're there? That's very upsetting.
The, he was like, okay. Yeah.
He didn't say oh yeah. She didn't fight for her but he
up at the same time didn't want to leave but Carly is still Fed
Up by this affair. So she actually secretly gets a
copy made of the key to that apartment wherever he is staying
in 1990 and she plans to confront a v.
I was thinking we're whatever you said, the dress was like a
hundred fourteen story or whatever and it's like I would
go down there actually. I don't know if I would I would
want to go down there. Bang the door open.
Hmm with a bat. Yeah.
And be like who the fuck is this?
So yeah. Carly's really debating it like
she thinks like yeah this is crazy.
I don't know if I can do it. She's really nervous but she
does it she leaving things home with the babies and she goes out
to the apartment when okay? I have a question when You say,
lose him at home is a said, Martha's Vineyard.
No, this is actually a New York guy they spend.
I was getting confused, like, how are they going from MV to
the, you know? Now, they have an apartment in
New York, too. I think Martha's Vineyard is
mostly a summer very, yeah, they're getting my car or maybe
she flies, you know. Yeah, this is when they're in
New York. So I don't know what he's doing.
Infidelity wise in Martha's Vineyard if he has another
girlfriend on the island. Lifeguard anyway.
But so Carly really wants the girlfriend to like see her as a
real person and to like know that like it's a real marriage
that she's interfering with. So she goes there and she
confronts IV and she says I'm Carly.
I said and every says, well, you're not a friend of mine, I
know. But still, I'm Carly.
I know. No, but still I'm Carly and Abby
says to her. James doesn't love you don't you
know that he calls you a JAP and he told me you by I don't know.
He told me. You buy a big Mercedes
convertibles and drive around California trying to be a movie
star but you're not pretty enough.
She continued in this vein Jamie had told her that I'd built a
swimming pool because I couldn't bear to step on any seaweed or
any rocks. Beneath my feet where real
people go swimming this comes up again, I know, Okay.
I love the beach. Not to go under two hands in
here. I do.
It'll be yeah. But like sometimes it's too
cold. I'm guessing they would have
heated floors on. Yeah, exactly.
Sometimes it's sharks. Sometimes the waves are too
treacherous. Yeah.
And you want to still go swimming?
Yeah. It's time to just want to like
float. Mmm or just, you know, read a
book on the wall. I mean, yeah, there's nothing
wrong with The Best of Both Worlds.
Having? Yeah.
Beach and What is it? I mean, you ever go to a nice
resort, you got both right there and you can choose.
I love. I love having not a care in the
world, but to decide am I going to spend the day at the beach or
the pool? And it's like pool in the
morning Beach later or reverse? Yeah.
You go to the beach and then you
get the sand off in the pool. So I don't know why this is a
big party. Yeah, with older rock friends.
I know No, I don't get it. I don't know why.
This was a huge marital issue for giv.
Is she should not? She does not know who I'm
speaking to. I know.
She's really smart so small. She says he says you spend all
day shopping and buying fur coats and that you are dressing
up, your children. Just like you, he tells me that
you nurse your little boy still, and that he will grow up to be a
very mmm. We're just little boy, is still
quite young. He said, you don't really Sing
well, and that you spent all day, getting bikini waxes.
So you look good for your rich boyfriend.
Who sends a planes for you all over the world.
They getting the key. I know nice takes five minutes.
He says you won't even notice when he's out of your house
because you're so in love with your diamonds, in your fancy
shoes and you tried them on in front of your mirror, you are a
party girl, you are a bitch, a city girl, a lazy Playgirl.
What did he call you? Yes, a swashbuckler it.
That's so mean. Yeah.
Every does not like that. I think I would like breakdown.
And Carly says to her. I know you want to believe
everything. James has told you, but you have
to see it all can't be true. He would never have loved me in
the first place place. If I was all those things, he
just said them to justify his actions to you.
And then Evie says, he said, once you were sexy and fun, and
now you ruined it all with your greediness and your furniture
and your What what did she say about that?
Anything like, she uses the bathroom and she freshens up and
I think she contemplates cutting herself, but she doesn't.
That would be horrible to hear that to hear your husband said.
Those horrible things about you. I know I think about I think she
I was in shock, too. And like she said, she didn't
really believe it or believe that he meant it.
What would you have done know? What would I have done?
I would have punched that girl. I think it would have been.
I mean I'm not I've never been in like a physical fight but I
think it would be really hard besides my sisters and I was
younger but I think we really hard not to do something.
Yeah I don't know how she does / Derek interface or I'm being
like, yeah, because that girl did not hold back and I really
wonder if that's her real name. If she stood out there, but
yeah, I'm not a violent person by any means, but I don't think
I would have been able to control myself.
Yeah. I, I would have lost it.
Yeah. Even just listening to, this
isn't not even me. I know, like, getting all heated
up right now, even if someone said that to her friend, I think
I would have Just completely would March down there or knock
down the door. So, she says, I came out of the
bathroom and without a single word, put on my coat, I held up
my hand to Evie shake and said she looked down at the floor.
Evie. I said, I'm really glad I came
here tonight. I'm sure I didn't make you
happy, but I want you to know that I will tell James that I
saw you. I tried not to sound pompous, or
insincere and considering the context felt as though I'd
succeeded in being decent. When our eyes connected for a
split second, I smiled broadly. Every didn't smile back nor had,
I expected her to. I didn't need her to mmm.
I'm so upset right now, I know and I think James, once again.
See is seemingly unfazed by Carly meeting at view.
Oh, great. I know.
It seems like everything. He's just like nonchalant about,
besides the swimming pool. Yeah, so true.
Hey, so it's 1980 and somehow they're actually still together
and on her ninth studio album. Come upstairs, Carly releases a
song titled James, and Olivia, Star James.
Your voice is like water. When I lift the shell to my ear,
I can hear you. Pouring out your heart.
To me James, the beauty of your voice lists us from sadness.
James let us become like water together, sing to me, sit on the
edge of my bed as when we were, as when we first spent nights
together, your body wrapped around your guitar.
Let the music speak for your heart.
Let them combined like water and sand.
Let them meet the are like oops of rain and bring us together
once again. She also writes a song called in
pain, which is very depressing. It's just like the, about the
end of the relationship. 1981, Carly goes on tour for this
album come upstairs, but is struggling badly from anxiety
and depression, due to the crumbling marriage, there's some
it been? Yeah.
There's some been is also struggling from kidney
dysplasia, which is quite serious.
It's actually what student? Sarah Hyland had the actors from
Modern Family. Emily that she needed to kidney
transplants for. So that's causing a lot of
stress and Carly isn't really eating, and she's losing a lot
of weight. And she actually collapse on
stage at a show in Pittsburgh. And then several other tour
dates are cancelled because she's too weak to perform.
No, no, no, don't hurt her James.
She seems like such a ray of sunshine.
My gosh, and this hurts me. Well, she's a beaut.
First of all, her book is Beautifully written like even
her diary entries from way back when she has such a beautiful
way with words and she's so in love with James like, you know,
yes she does cheat on him but it's out of, he started exactly.
I think she kind of does it to get a reaction?
Yeah, that's only fair. I can't blame her at all.
Virginia on him and she could not really monogamous and ya
know. So, you know, I don't think
that's wrong. Me neither.
I think all's Fair. Once the other person is
cheating and will not stop being an idiot.
Yeah, I mean, he's just basically established.
Mmm. This is the way it is, you know.
Exactly. So Carly ends up spending a
month in the hospital to gain weight and when she gets out,
James has a new girlfriend an actress named Catherine Walker,
who later becomes his second one.
My mouth Sokka doesn't come beIN audio, but he's he's checking
out James releases. His tenth studio album.
The lead single is called Hard Times, which gives a clue to
fans that their marriage is on the Rocks.
So lyrics, are we've seen some Hard Times Hard Times holding it
together ain't always easy, an angry, man, hungry woman.
They're driving each other crazy.
It's so So low down Showdown. There's nothing else.
Safe to say babies on the town babies looking around.
Talking about walking away, don't let go, Gotta Give It One
More Chance. We've got a hold on, loving me
may not take make much sense but I'm gone on you baby, baby.
I'm gone and I want you back again.
I may be wrong for you baby. Maybe I'm wrong but I love you.
Just the same. Interesting.
Wasn't That.
Carly and her Memoir keeps repeating that line.
Angry man, hungry woman about their relationship.
I hate that. I know.
And then 1981, they're officially separated and Carly
is interviewed about it. Here it is to the state of your
marriage which has been highly publicized.
What is this state or and prognosis for the future?
God will being the asked a personal question like this over
over television, where a lot of people are looking at.
It makes me want to take a jump. Yeah, it makes me want to just
go over there and jump, jump down but it's it's it's a it's a
fairly, you know, accepted fact that we are separated.
Yes. We're not living together.
We are we're both doing fine. Both mother and child are doing
fine. We are We're in a better State
now than we have been in, in quite a while.
And, and I don't have any feelings of regret about having
been married to James. We had nine wonderful years
together, and two wonderful children and two, wonderful
children. And and I think it's to our
credit that we realized when Things were no longer really
mental and that things right now.
Yes. And for the foreseeable future
and Know You Can Tell She's just so broken up over it.
But she still she doesn't want to say anything bad about James
at all. Well she sure is sweet.
Hmm. What she said.
But so then it's 1982 James and Carly have been broken up for a
And James dropped off the kids at Carly's place and Carly
writes that their relationship at this time would usually be
described as sharp and he did, but occasionally civil.
But on this one particular night, when James is dropping
off the kids, he unexpectedly comes inside the apartment and
just sits down and they just stare at each other in silence
until they make their way into the bedroom and sleep together.
Oh my God. God Charlie Wright's.
Wow, I noticed that James is long, aristocratic fingers were
stained with nicotine. Mostly, I noticed that he wasn't
wearing a wedding ring. There was a hesitation, but that
familiar weight like that of some Sleek animal grafted onto
me later. I knew he'd say he was sorry and
that he hadn't meant to meant it, that it didn't mean
anything. But in those moments, I was in
heaven that lost had toppled him.
Unlike then she says, I felt like I was Orpheus leading your
eurydice out of the underworld not daring to look back until we
had at least reached the upper air, but unlike the myth is B.
The gender roles been reversed and never looked back and James
still disappeared. Wow.
Oh my gosh, that felt like a
novel or something. I know, I felt like you were
reading Tom. I know this your sleeves looking
heat of passion. Sometimes I feel like From this
show, I'm realizing that, like, sometimes real life is just
crazier than Fiction. I know seriously.
I know without saying anything, he sat on the bed.
Okay, but this is crazy 1985. Now, Carly gets engaged to a
drummer named Russ. Kunkel, who is any detail?
This is well, conkel. Hmm.
He's drumming on tour with James who's James live on particular
and Carly is asked about this in an interview with Charlie Rose.
Let's hear it. Interesting.
Russell conquer raises the question, that's often
speculating the process, whether the two of you are going to get
married. Well, this is a, this is a
Divine possibility, a Divine possibility, he plays.
He's going to be touring with James, right?
Yes. Is that going to be easy?
You'll have to ask me that in about 3 months.
What do you expect trouble? And what does change say about
all this? Again, you'll have to ask you.
I don't talk to him about that. You don't.
Okay. This is something I guess
between James and Russ. Yeah, they have been working
together for years and I don't I don't really see that there's
any reason to stop. Yeah.
And Charlie Rose. Yeah.
So flustered I know. Oh my gosh car.
But, you know, I feel like a part of Carly like, like, based
off her book. I feel like she's still I was in
love with James as the stairs went by.
So I do wonder if like, there's a little bit of like, vindictive
and they're on her part. Maybe she was acting kind of
like, I don't know. You gotta ask James.
Yeah, we don't talk about that. Yeah, I mean, James is always
unfazed by these things that he should have a motion for so.
Wow. They never end up getting
married though. Um, and they decide they're
better. A off as friends, interesting.
And meanwhile, during this time, James gets married to that
girlfriend from before Catherine Walker and they're married until
1996. Wow.
Damn, Carly is interviewed at her home in New York City.
And she says that her relationship with James is 1986.
Now is strained, but that she still has feelings for him and
she describes that she's the main caretaker for their kids.
And that James is only involved when it's convenient for him.
And he just kind of comes and goes and she says, like I would
be probably on tour more often but I have the responsibility of
the kids. My main job is a mom.
Yeah, where is James main job is still to be a musician first and
he's a father. S II did wonder frequently.
Like if James was a present father at all, I think he still
remained in Sally and Ends lives.
They're both musicians now, and like there have been videos of
them performing with James on stage, but definitely their
primary caretaker was Carly and they're much closer with Carly.
Yeah, 1987 Carly marries another James.
A man named James Hart. A writer, and poet, and
businessman writer poet business.
Yeah, that's how he's described on Wikipedia, they divorced in
2007 because he ends up being gay.
Say, oh no. So I don't know anything about
gay the whole time. I'm not sure.
I don't know much about their marriage but 1988 James is
interviewed a part of the Joe Jackson interviews.
And he's asked about Carly and says he was too young to be
married. What I'm going to say that here
it is. I still It's my friends with
Carly. Yeah, no.
I would say that we were friends and I I tend to want to have as
little contact with her as possible and I assume that she's
the feeling's mutual it communicates.
Um, what about the kids and that's it.
It ended up that literally I wouldn't say it's terribly
bitter. I just I just think that that it
ended format that it's that's I prefer to have very limited
contact Thang. Yeah.
Yeah, one thing about the Joe Jackson interview is, that's the
first time we hear like, James doesn't really communicate with
Carly at all. Like, and that kind of speaks
back to in Carly's memory. When she's writing about James
is coldness towards his Exes, in the past, how we just completely
cuts and cuts them out, and that's it door, slams.
Mmm. And I'm all for no contact after
break-up. But he definitely takes it to
the extreme. Yeah.
Like he's done and I don't know. Maybe that's because he can't
control himself like maybe he sees it very black and white and
otherwise he would walk into her apartment and sit on the bed and
sleep with her. Once again, I am Oliver no
contact when you need to get over a relationship, but you
should not be talking to your ex-boyfriend or ex-girlfriend or
whatever if you still have feelings for them.
You need to move on whatever. But I do think like if Years Ago
by There's no reason to still be so hostile, I mean unless they
did something exactly. Let me she's the mother of his
children. Like how can you not talk to
her, you know. Yeah.
Like I it makes me really sad that they're not on a talking
basis when they have children together like I feel like it
probably would have been a lot easier for the kids if their
parents still got along and you know could be in the same room
with each other and it's all James choosing not to be.
Yeah. So I got asked, where does
You're So Vain? Into all this.
Oh, that's a great question. She wrote that before.
Oh, really? Yeah, before they dated, I think
at the beginning of their relationship, it's not about
James whatsoever. Mmm.
I think it's about actually a couple people.
She obviously has never really said who it's about.
It's 100% not about James Taylor at all and think he is vain.
Hmm. Not know.
I don't think that's his problem.
I think he's a lot of problems but entity is Isn't one?
Yeah, it didn't realize I was before it could.
Yeah, that's a good question, though.
It could potentially be about Warren BB.
I think that's one of the biggest suspects by.
Yep. Not James.
That's pretty successful song. Oh, yeah.
And so, when that song came out to like beforehand, James was a
lot more successful than Carly, but that kind of Switched things
for a while because it came out right in the beginning of their
relationship, okay? Not Nope, he's not even on the
table. I think she explicitly says that
to make sense. That's an amazing Breakup Song.
Actually just in our last episode, when we were talking
about Alanis Morissette and You Oughta known to see how direct
that song is kind of reminds me of your soaping.
Yeah, like just being, like, not holding back at all.
They're both iconic breakup songs.
Put them in your breakup playlist.
But yeah. So then in 1994 she's on the
Howard Stern Show. Oh my God.
And Howard does not hold back, he never does.
Oh, I know you're getting something good.
All right, here's a clip. Pretty sleazy looks like James
Taylor and he sings like James, Taylor your son, which is gonna
be a nightmare for you because you reminded a James every
minute, when you look at them right?
Or is it good? It's wonderful as it.
With you is wonderful. You know, I really liked it.
I think the world of James. He do.
Absolutely. And and it's must've got a good
settlement. You guys.
Split. Everything.
Equally when you were broke up to cut.
That must've been a bonanza between you and money and his
money. Yeah, they just took their own
separate piles. I think I'm gonna take a guess,
I'm going to say that was a hundred million dollar divorce
settlement 50/50 You gotta remember that I because I don't
do concerts I don't make a lot of money and and or James
performs two three times a day he makes up for what you do.
That's right. He's great.
A lot of money, he's great but he is great and but obviously he
wasn't the man that could satisfy.
You know it's true. You needed a real man, you don't
need no sensitive man who sings folk tunes that guy you need an
angry shock jock, you need baseball player, you do not need
to Little can't believe he broke.
Did he break up with you or you broke it off with him?
Or just, you know, it's never just one that it takes two to
tango. And it takes two to pretty much
dissolve something that's that important because I would have
stayed with you. I find it very sexy unless
you're a pain in the ass to live with.
I can't figure out the downside. Well what did he say when you
asked him? That said you were a pain in the
ass to live with, oh he did he did you want to say about him
know that he had his opportunity?
You should certainly do that. Oh, yeah, gentlemen, know he is
he didn't. He said, you were hard to live
without you were very different and you only he said, toward the
annually kids are listening. So toward the end, you didn't
give him that, much sex. No, no.
He, he did. He said, you got it, like, two
or three times a month, and he just couldn't take it anymore.
My guess on James, is that he probably started messing around
with some groupies and stuff and you caught him.
Well, how close am I? I could figure this whole thing
out. Okay, well I'll close the, my my
clothes just tell me if I'm getting it.
Am I getting warm? No you not.
Tell the truth. You know what it was?
You catch em all. Let's just say it was my fault.
You were busy. Go on tour.
We didn't pay attention to his needs.
You were caught up in your own Fame.
Understand a lot of what I needed to understand.
I was young, and I did you need to understand what song is this.
He was going through in his life.
He just goes for it. Oh, he doesn't hold back at all
and it's sweet. How Carly is like, you don't
need to belittle him. Like she really, even though she
really has every right to belittle him, she is so
respectful of jeans and as defensive him years later, wow,
why is she being so kind and selfless.
Like it's nice and it's admirable but no so hard on
herself. It was At all remotely close.
I think she did everything she could to keep that marriage
alive past the point of no return.
And forgave a lot that in my opinion is unforgivable and I I
think Howard Stern is so funny but I was feeling really bad for
her right now. I feel really bad but I mean she
should have just said that I mean I get it doesn't want to
talk badly about James. Yes, but that's frustrating me.
Hmm. I mean, even in her Memoir word,
she's writing about James cheating on her.
Like, obviously his actions are pretty bad, but she still speaks
of him with the utmost kindness and love, and she's not willing
to bad-mouth him at all. I mean, he is the father of her
children. So I wonder if he really did say
that to Howard Stern about. That's so mean her.
Not those sleeping with him enough.
Why can't he reciprocate? I know.
And honestly two to three times a month isn't bad.
I know they're near married at 23 times a month.
That's good. He's traveling all the time.
Anyway, I know exactly. I mean, Larry with this point I
know two or three times a year. Some people do sometimes never.
So he's got a problem. Mmm.
Yeah. So yeah, 2001.
James, Mary's, Boston Symphony, Orchestra director, Kim Smith
TIG and they go on and have two sons Rufus and Henry they're
still together to this. Days.
I made this woman in an interview leader.
James said something like. Well, when you love someone,
that's just what you do. You just do the right thing and
get married. So just kind of weird because
it's like he'd already been married twice before.
Yeah, I don't know if he's just doing that because he feels like
it's the right thing to do but I'm sorry, I still can't over,
still can't get over Howard Stern.
Saying only give us X to three times a month, I know.
Yeah I mean he does give the best interviews but that is so
So crossing a line and that way, do you think, do you think that
James really said it? I don't know.
I do believe that James probably said that she was difficult to
live with. I don't think he said this in an
on-air interview, though, must have been off the record.
I don't like, does he know? Howard Stern, a little bit more
like this is the first time they met and he just said that, I
know. Yeah, I know just how to live
with him and she doesn't put out that easy.
Is that how is oranges is in ferryman?
Yeah, exactly. I mean he probably put the words
in James's mouth. How many times did you sleep
together or does the 16 of them up to three times a month?
Yeah, okay, Howard Stern, kept glavine to himself do after he
said something like, you need a real man.
Yeah. What's he trying to say?
He himself. Yeah, you're a real shock jock
your review. Yeah, you're a beautiful woman.
Oh my God. Yeah, it's so funny.
He feels that way for Kristen Stewart.
Yeah. Because I'm in a way kind of
reminds me of Miley Cyrus for some really?
Yeah. Ricky Smiley reminds me of Carly
Simon. I feel like, you know, with
their haircut now to and yeah, yeah, I don't see it yet but
I'll keep my eyes again. Skinner in the voice.
Yeah, keep your eyes. So Carly actually remained a
lifelong friend with James's brother, Livingston, Taylor and
Livingston. Yeah, and they collaborate on
music together all the time and attend events together for each
other. And in 2002, they even released
a duet title that best of friends.
This is branches brother. That's crazy.
Yeah. And like, if you go on my
Livingston's Instagram page, like all the time, I'm he calls
Carly like my dear beautiful friend, interesting.
And it's just interesting because James doesn't
communicate with Carly at all. He's got her completely
possible. I know that's very nice.
They have this beautiful friendship, I can imagine that
being annoying maybe for James. Like he sees his brother at a
family party or whatever Christmas and it's like hanging
out with my ex-wife all the time.
I know exactly. I mean, It is sad though when
people break up and they are supposed to like not see the
other people in their exes live anymore.
So hmm. And now even in 2020 during like
the lockdown stuff Livingston did a little online concert of
Carly's music and when he's starting a, he's describing her
my old and beautiful friend, Harley son, love.
I know maybe My old and beautiful.
It's just so interesting because I don't, but I know me too.
Actually, he looks a lot like gee, I don't know.
Some well, I think he might be, but Carly has so much love and
respect to for the Taylor family.
So it's really only James that is cut her out.
I feel like his whole family loved her too.
In 2002. Also, Carly is interviewed on
CBS Sunday Morning and reveals that James gets mad.
Whenever she Talks about him in the Press.
Oh really. You have to know that.
Even after all this time, people are still interested in you and
James Taylor. I am not allowed to talk about
it. Bye James.
Every time I talk about this subject, I get a lot of grief
from James who doesn't really like to acknowledge that he has
a past. Wow.
Okay. I know it's kind of interesting
that like she didn't say age like her publicist or something
beforehand. Like, oh, James is off the table
right now. She kind of didn't want us to
know that, like, James is for fitting her.
My God talking about their relationship is he pissed about
this Memoir? Actually we know later on James.
Let's see. He releases an I'll just skip
Ahead to your point in 2020 and James actually releases an audio
book about the first 21 years of his life.
So convenient link currently an audiobook.
Hmm. Yep.
I don't know. Look no.
It's just an audio. Okay, so he must have written it
down somewhere and then just read it but you can't read it
yourself. Okay.
I don't know why. Maybe it's just like cheaper
that they don't have to print it and Carly's excluded.
It's a brief mention of when he met her at 14, years old, in
Martha's Vineyard and he says about her Memoir.
I think she's been pretty kind to me.
And that's certainly her story to tell.
Maybe she got better offers or maybe they were more compelling.
Somehow one should be free to be oneself and not the prosecuting
attorney in the defense. It would be hard for me.
I really know. I don't know, like hard for him
to tell his side of the story but doesn't have a book that you
read. Well, it's about that's a
biography about him which was written with interviews from his
family but he didn't write it himself.
Okay. And that one is a little less
like revealing it kind of mostly walks through his career.
Okay. Warren With Carly.
Even mentioned. Yeah she was mentioned and she
was interviewed for that book as well actually.
Oh, if she participated in the writing of it I know was it
after they broke up. Oh that's nice.
Yeah, she doesn't seven Carly along with her.
Kids, been and Sally sing a cover of James of song.
You can close your eyes on her album into white and then they
appear on Oprah. And she says that she decided to
cover that song because He's one of the great songwriters of all
time, I know she still loves him in 2010.
James is interviewed and makes a rare comment about Carly.
This is a part of 7:30 report reluctant to talk about your
first wife, Carly Simon which I respect but but can we talk for
a moment about your music together?
Because for a time there you were America's indeed much of
the World's favorite singer songwriter company while I'm
happy to talk about Carly. Hmm.
Stop. How important was that part of
your life? It must have been very well you
know consuming at the time it was and but it was a very public
marriage and a very you know, for me it was just premature,
you know, I had no business making that You know, it amazes
me that people get married at the age of in their 20s at all.
You know I mean what do you know?
Very little? No, it was just it was sort of,
it was kind of doomed. I mean, really it was just, I
was unfit to be a husband and father and We took the ferry
must be very tough thing to scientific knowledge.
Yeah, I know it's not hard to say if it's just Peyton, we
true. Yeah.
And, yeah, I mean that makes sense.
I mean, he had his struggles with mental health, and drugs,
and alcohol for his early 20s. And yeah, I don't think he was
even really clean by the time he got married and had kids so it
obviously was not the best time for that type of commitment.
It's pretty chill, Zen of him to say it like that.
Just It's not hard to say just it's true.
I wasn't fit for it. No, I wasn't.
Yeah. Good.
I know his face when he's is like not.
I'm happy to talk about Carly. Like I feel like a tells many
stories. Yeah, I know.
I do think he was quite sad about the end of the
relationship, though. Like, I do think he really did
love Carly and maybe the reason he doesn't talk to her anymore
is because he can't really face like his own guilt about that
relationship ending. Yeah, I think that happens a
lot. Hmm.
I know if are broken. So also the end.
So 2015 is when this book actually came out and so in this
book Carly actually reveals that she still lives at their home in
Martha's Vineyard. Really and she even still sleeps
in the same bed that they went and she still has a lot of
James's belongings just up in the house and hasn't even
changed the living room much since they live together.
And these are a few comments that Carly made in.
In the Memoir about her feelings, about James in 2015.
She says, because no matter how many years have gone by James
for me, will always be a big part of what I call home.
Hmm. Chelsea says today James would
likely forget a good many things.
I remember being flooded with color just as you might also
recall sunlight on days that for me were gray and dimly lit.
Whatever he thinks of me today, I dare say it's slightly less
damaging than the way. I see myself through his Eyes.
Oh my God. I know that is sad.
She also true. I know, I know, she's a
beautiful writer. She says, is when James walked
into her room, any room, he transformed it, charging it up
with his Radiance. His message of, I'm just passing
through. But while I'm here, it's the
Night Before Christmas thinking about it.
Now, many years later I can still still feel that.
Oh dear, sweet. Jesus is here, James is here
feeling. And that's all there is to it.
Oh my God. I know that is love seriously.
It's so beautiful. Yeah.
Like even if even though James isn't in her life anymore, when
she still feels irradiance in the room as magical as
Christmas, it reminds her of James.
All these years later. After everything.
I'm gonna cry. Mmm, she also says, I've stopped
trying to stop loving the heart may be broken, but Brokenness
doesn't stop it from loving. How can you not love a person
whose genes are in the two people?
Your children? You love most in the world.
And I think that's totally human and very normal and still love
who used to be with you know, even if they really hurt you and
you're not together anymore. Yeah.
Like how can I just always struggled like how can it go
from being so in love to like nothing or to hate, you know, I
agree. And I also think that forcing
yourself to not love somebody who you loved a lot, just for
the sake of moving on with your life, doesn't really make you
stop loving them. Yeah, it's Going to make it any
easier. Just is repressing that feeling.
And so like, it's okay to still love somebody but to like not be
together. Yeah, it's okay.
Maybe this is speaking to somebody that's hearing isn't
going through but you can sit with that and still feel those
feelings of love and that doesn't mean that you have to do
anything about it or to get back with that person, but it's just
okay. And I like have Harley has
accepted that that That visit need to make herself.
Not love James. Mmm.
She also makes several comments about him in the press and she
actually tells the times that James forbids, their kids from
sharing his phone number with her.
Wow, Mmm. Yeah, I was one of her.
Hmm, I thought she wasn't supposed to talk about them.
I now she's talking about but also like he doesn't control
her. No, no, no, no.
You know, Carly you talking about him as me?
Yeah. Why, you know, even if he
requested that she doesn't have to say, yes, I know exactly.
She does can't forbid her from doing anything.
I mean, if he wouldn't stop himself from cheating on her
with Evie. Yeah.
And others getting gonorrhea, she was pregnant.
Then she can do whatever the fuck she wants means I know.
But wow, that's crazy. She can't have his phone number.
Hmm, damn, yeah. Yeah, 20:21 actually.
So basically the present Carly is asked about her relationship
again with James Taylor. She's constantly asking this and
this is her response. What's relationship with James
Taylor? Now, I don't speak to him, he
never comes here. He doesn't even come to Ben's
house which is right down down them drive, your son's house.
Yeah he doesn't he doesn't feel at home on the island.
He recently said to somebody, it's her.
It's not my Island anymore, the relationship is a pest, it's a
pest for him on one level and it's a pest for me on an on
another level. But I am, I'm saying, let's
let's put on some lotion that's going to, it's going to help us.
We've got to because we're both public figures, the world knows
both of us or some of the world knows, both of us.
And knows, what would you do? What would you do if you were
presented with this problem? I'm not sure.
I am sure that I'm glad I don't have this problem.
I am too, I love that. She asked the interview I know.
Would you do? What would you do?
That's a conversation with Dan Rather on AC AXS TV.
Okay, he's really wasn't expecting.
I know. I'm not sure, I'm really
thankful. I don't have that problem.
What if he did have that problem?
Well, my life. Oh my God.
He won't even visit been, I know I know this is Mars has been her
the talking. Yeah, yeah, sad.
He's the love my husband. You know, he doesn't even feel
like it's home anymore. I know, it makes me really sad.
I mean, they're getting older too, they're in their 70s and I
really wonder like, you know, life is short.
Like, will there ever be reconciliation for the two of
them? Can they ever be on speaking
terms? Like it's a pest?
So many years have passed through.
He's been married twice after her.
Sure, she's been married before. Like they have two kids.
Two kids are grown adults. Yeah, I just don't understand.
I think why he still doesn't talk to her after all this time,
is it? Because he feels like his
current wife would have a problem with it.
This is one of these life questions I have.
It's like what what is it why is it that in romantic
relationships? It's so unlike any other
relationship like, For some reason, you just can't want some
people apparently can't but like, it's just, it's, it's not
can't change it. I know.
I'm like, moving my hands around, like, going to from
lovers to friends or just amicable family members or
whatever. Like, it's so hard for some
reason. So unique, I was thinking that
the other day, it's like, why is there this one really is just on
such a different level of everything else.
And I know this, This thing that we're all like hungry for the
same time and add so much pressure to life at the same
time and it's just so intense. Yeah and yeah, I don't know what
his deal is, though, he's getting getting older.
I mean, you know, you could just try me like she's saying like
the look like lotion. Yeah.
We're like, you know, it sucks and it's hard but just try.
Yeah, I mean, I had a friend growing up.
Her parents were divorced but her dad would still go to every
Christmas party at her house and her You know, had a new
boyfriend that they lived with and they were just so amicable
like, they really celebrated together.
They would have dinners together.
They were good friends after and I'm sure that took some time,
but I feel like that's the ideal for divorced parents and it
makes me sad that some parents can't do that, I know.
But that's, yeah, that's their relationship that's Carly,
Simon, no way. I was researching them for weeks
and weeks and I have a great job.
I hope it can. I was so invested.
Yeah I am like truly. I was just living it.
I feel like I just went through a breakup and now I'm 70 and
still in love with my ex-husband and I think I lie, still Dad,
she still does love him which is the part that makes me really
sad and he's just he is such a This about him too.
Yeah, he doesn't want to acknowledge that he has a past.
Wow likelihood that they'll get back together.
She's still married. I'm going to say it's probably
zero but I don't know. I mean maybe he'll like at the
end of his life you know, realize it really was the one
all along. I just think he must have
different. Probably still does love her if
he refuses to speak to her. Yeah.
Like if you care that much. There's something there that you
don't want to acknowledge. Yeah, it's been two years.
Yeah, broke up in 1981. Okay, 40 years.
Yeah, 40 years ago, 40 years and he still won't talk to her.
They have two kids together. You think he would be over it by
now is truly incredible. I kind of love it in a way that
humans can still care about something for like, 40 years.
I know seriously. I mean, I love that.
She hasn't even really changed. The interior of their house, all
that much, that she still sleeps in the same bed.
I find it hard to believe that she is.
Is like this materialistic person.
My God me too. She seems like such a happy got
that. I don't see that.
So it's James like a super hippie or something like to the
next level, like he doesn't like possessions or something.
Like okay. I mean, they're both pretty red.
Yeah, I'm just trying to figure this out and he grew up pretty
wealthy as well. If she hasn't even changed a
living room, she can't be that, you know, much of a shopper.
Yeah, I agree and I meant she had them.
Money to go shopping. And why is that an issue in
their relationship? Her manicures and she writes so
beautifully in his so intersective.
I just don't see her. As is like Material Girl.
No, I don't think so either. And when you try on shoes, you
do look in the mirror. Yeah.
To evy's point, I know like every must have been like in her
early twenties. Yeah, thing.
How can you not look in the mirror.
I know seriously, seriously. And there's nothing wrong with
loving yourself. Look and she should love herself
reading herself. I mean, if she was taking care
of the kids, he was a mom. You should go get yourself a
manicure if she feels like and also the the part of I think the
part that would probably be like, that's it for me as a part
about her still nursing their son.
Yeah, James had an issue with that and said he's going to grow
up to be a fairy. Yeah, that first of all, that's
pretty homophobic. I know.
But also the sun was he still you?
Young. He was young but I mean he had a
lot of health problems so she probably was nursing him because
of yeah, bad to give her to give him, you know, some of her
antibodies or whatever. But I mean, here she is home
with the kids doing all the parenting work.
He's criticizing her about it. So upsetting, what would you say
though? Your percentage of chance that
they'll get 5%? Yeah 25.
Yeah I would say like 52, I'm present.
I'm not gonna say it's zero because I never know, never
know. And I do think there are
feelings there. Yeah.
Oh my God, I like the Carly to acknowledge, like, because we
are public figures know. We have to be on good terms,
like they're always going to continue to be asked about this
relationship. So, Probably the best answer
that. Oh yeah, we get along and We
know bad feelings here. Yeah.
They are going to be asked about it forever.
Okay I need someone maybe Howard Stern.
I'm sorry guys, I'm sorry. I need someone to ask Cristen
zuly these questions about well my God, I'm sorry, God.
I've no, it's not really didn't know.
But I was thinking that too. When I was reading this Memoir,
I need Kristen Stewart to write a book like this.
Yes. Oh my gosh.
I need I need to learn about the first time that Rob and Kristen
Work together. I need to learn about the first
time they laid eyes on each other said, I love you.
I need to know about the nitty-gritty break up.
Yeah, I want about the day after the breakup.
I want to know if there was any rebound sex in there, this is
our favorite couple guys. Yeah, this is a couple that are
broadcast is inspired. Yeah, I just need someone to ask
why isn't her assets and Need someone to ask Jim Dodd Rhythm.
When's the last time you spoke to him?
I no wait. That's a perfect guy.
Hasn't. Anyone said that?
Yeah, I mean, I know. Well, that interviews recently,
right? I mean, I guess you're married.
What I know that people are last year, I feel like people are a
little more respectful and interviews today.
Maybe they feel uncomfortable, or maybe they're not supposed to
ask about it. But why isn't anyone asked?
I know, I mean, maybe because James Taylor and Carly Simon
have kids together. It's yeah, like a C4.
Into a square is when a couple without kids breaks up, it's
assumed that they probably don't communicate darn but someone
know someone should have the balls as, you know, if you do
it, I'll pay you 50 bucks. Yeah.
Or Rob, I think Rob wouldn't answer.
Now, Kristen is more likely to answer.
This is fascinating and I should mention too that I feel like one
of the even when their marriage was See they always had like a
fire performing together and that's like, when Carly really
felt James is love. Like, almost the most strongly
is really on stage together. Yeah.
And Carly's, not really a performer.
I think she said I wanted these interviews.
She has bad stage fright so she's so rarely performs, so
sweet, but she would with James, wow.
I wonder if anything else will come out in the future
interviews. I don't know, James, if you're
listening, just Carly a call. Yes.
And your it swim in the pool. Yeah, and then tell us what
happened? Yeah, Carly with anybody.
I don't think so. Yeah.
She I just love her look like, I think you're still looks great.
I love her smile. Yeah, I wanted to say random
news. Wait wait, do everything more?
Oh I guess I had one more random.
Okay. About Carly shippers of Taylor
Swift and Karlie Kloss really cling to this couple interesting
Lee enough because Taylor Swift was apparently named after James
Taylor. Wow.
In Karlie Kloss was apparently named after Carly Simon.
Why did they spell it differently?
Current. I don't know.
I'm not sure, but that's interesting.
So they really identify with this couple.
Mmm. It's kind of faded and Taylor
Swift is a huge fan of both Carly Simon and James Taylor.
She's still a numerous records numerous times said on record
that she was inspired by their music and as even performed with
the both of them. So I do wonder if yeah, I wonder
if she's like said something to either.
No. About being obsessed with their
ex. Mmm, it's a theory.
But yeah, maybe Taylor Swift will bring them together know
maybe. But what were you gonna say?
Oh, just. Um, I told you about this but
just, you know, a little weird connection that happened
recently, which I feel like keeps happening stuff that there
was a video, this is going to count way later, but there was
an interview that came out recently with Cara Delevingne.
Apparently, she's getting, I guess you didn't get it yet, but
she's getting an awareness and Linda s'mores that tattoo.
And it's going to be lionesses, she wrote ironic in her
handwriting or something and Cara's going to get that
tattooed just crazy. It's just weird.
We just cover them with like interesting to connect, it's so
weird. I feel ya.
So many of our couples keep overlapping and I literally I
just Googled Cara Delevingne just to make sure I smelled her
last name correctly and then that I just saw that I was like
what? So weird feeling our podcast was
like, I don't know, manifesting nothing because member also.
I know this is our last podcast but we said Harry and like
Michael should just quit being broiled.
It dead like a week later, I know.
So yeah, Kristen Stewart, you should write a memoir, tell all
yeah, you should share the juicy details like Carly Simon.
Did I feel like she B things sometimes, right.
Like yeah, he's written scripts and oh yeah, I'm sure she has
journals, and she actually does have a short film apparently
that was inspired by her breakup with Rob.
Would we have not watched? We're going to, yeah, but I
don't know what it is. Sometimes you just never get
around to things that you want to do.
Yeah, those things, you know, even if it doesn't even take
them much time, it just Not the beautiful thing of life that
there's so many things that you want to do and not enough time
to do them. I know.
Well, I guess I don't know. It's a beautiful, it's it is, it
is because we're not like bored out of our minds.
There is always something to do. Yeah.
If you think about it, yeah, you set your mind to it.
Yeah. Oh wow, not three hours.
Same this guys We thought I thought John Yoko is gonna be
three hours. It was like two hours mmm-hmm,
and then we thought that Alanis Morissette and Dave Coulier
would be like a half hour and it was yeah, like an hour fifteen
years. Yeah, I was afraid.
It was gonna be like 20 and I was like not a bad thing, but I
just would have felt a little bit like a delinquent or
something like that. I showed up with nothing for
fair. Little this a but yeah.
Actually turned out to be more than I thought.
Yeah, that's funny. Well, I'll tease our next
episode. Is a little bit more present
day. It involves a breakup between I
was going to totally get away between it's a little bit more
present day. It's about the breakup of a
well-known comedian and his wife, you probably already know
what this is, but our next episode, it left me feeling.
So heartbroken that I literally felt sick to my stomach.
Really. Hmm.
So it's going to be Be a tearjerker, but one that you
might be interested in, we can all cry together.
Oh, yeah. And also, in this relationship,
it's probably obvious. But who do you blame?
Oh yeah. Oh completely blame James
Taylor. I'm so stupid that I thought
You're So Vain was like about him.
So then from the beginning I was like, oh yeah blame him from the
get-go. Actually nothing to do with it.
I'm glad you taught me that but yeah, you guys should listen to.
We're so close by Carly Simon. It's so beautiful.
Listen to their, we are by James Taylor and I highly encourage
you to also read Carly's Memoir, boys, and trees, it's
beautifully written. I feel like there's so many
things that I didn't even get to convey especially about them
falling in love and how much she loved him.
So I want to read it. Yeah I have it right here.
Take it home with you and that's it.
Thank you guys for listening. Learning so much.
I don't want. Ending know.
Thank you. Mel.
Thank you. Yeah.
One of our listeners who gesture that we end with guys.
It's not you, it's me, that was us.
I love the, I love the suggestion, but I don't know.
I don't, I've makes me feel like we're breaking up.
I know. No, it's not.
I guess it is the end of the episode.
Yeah. But we'll get back together next
week. Oh, yeah.
Oh, give me that. Yeah, we love you guys.