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Are you lonesome tonight? 
Do you miss me tonight? 

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Are you sorry we drifted apart? 
Hello. 

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Hi. 
Hi, guys. 

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Welcome to significant lovers. 
True love podcast. 

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Yep, we are three cousins Zoo. 
I'm Kel. 

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I'm Mel. 
And I'm Caitlin and. 

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Thanks for joining us. 
Yes, thank you, thank you, thank

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you. 
It's a new year. 

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Yes, 2025. 
It's a new era of significant 

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lovers. 
Yes, and it's funny 'cause I 

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don't know, I still think of our
seasons of the podcast as the 

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school year, like September. 
Yeah, me too, I do too 'cause we

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started it like, well, did we 
start in August? 

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I think we started like late 
August or maybe early August. 

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Yeah. 
So it's not really a new era. 

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Well, you know how like TV shows
used to have mid season finales 

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and then they'd go on a break? 
It's kind of like that. 

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It's. 
Yeah, Reprieve. 

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Yeah, it's second semester. 
Exactly. 

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So Caitlin is hosting today, in 
charge today, is telling the 

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love story today. 
Kate, who are we talking about? 

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Yes. 
So we are talking about Caesar 

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and Cleopatra, I know, taking it
all the way back in time to 

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ancient Rome and ancient Egypt. 
Oh my gosh, Yep, I just saw 

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Gladiator so I'm. 
Is he in that? 

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Is Caesar in that? 
No, you know, it's Rome. 

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I haven't seen any of the 
Gladiators Don't Hate Me 

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listeners so. 
Well, I don't think it's the 

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same. 
It's not the same time. 

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Oh, it's not. 
No, I don't. 

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I think Caesar was maybe long. 
Gone by then, maybe. 

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Yeah, well, I know from doing 
research that he used to oversee

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some gladiator games and he'd 
have gladiators and stuff, so I 

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wasn't sure. 
Crazy. 

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Yeah, Yeah, Mel and I, when we 
first started this podcast and 

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then of course, Caitlin joined 
recently full time. 

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We made a spreadsheet of ideas 
of couples. 

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And I remember this was on the 
list. 

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Like, I think it was actually 
pretty high up. 

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We were like, Oh yeah, we could 
do seasoning Cleopatra, but 

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neither of us ever did. 
And so thanks, Kate, for. 

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Yeah, it's actually #22 on our 
list. 

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Wow. 
I mean, it wasn't in like any 

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kind of order, but we have like 
200 ideas on. 

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Here SO. 
I'm glad that you are finally 

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doing it. 
Yeah, so it was #22 and now this

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is what episode 106-7107 yeah, 
finally got us. 

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Done. 
So yeah, our first eleven ideas 

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on the spreadsheet we have done,
but then #12 we have not done 

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yet which was which is Ellen and
Porsche. 

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Ooh, you'll. 
Have to do that soon. 

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We have a couple new patrons 
that we want to thank first 

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before we get into the episode 
for supporting us. 

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Thank you. 
If you guys want to get double 

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the amount of episodes a month 
you can join our Patreon. 

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It is $5.00 a month or $5 for an
individual episode and we have a

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couple new patrons. 
Thank you so much to Yo Tyron. 

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I think that's how you say it, 
Eoton. 

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Thank you, Aaron and SD. 
Thank you. 

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Yay. 
Clap, clap, clap, clap. 

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Mercy Boku. 
Yes. 

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Well, before we actually get 
into the episode, we will be 

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doing the trivia segment, which 
is a new segment on the pod, and

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I'll be asking questions to Mel 
and Kel. 

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Some of these seem easy to be 
in, some of them seem hard. 

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So I'm going to start with the 
hardest question first, I think.

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Ready. 
OK, which couple met at a hockey

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game? 
Atlanta and Dave Coulier. 

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Oh yeah, you got it. 
I was. 

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Just about to say it. 
I was just about to. 

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I was too slow. 
Sorry. 

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Mel. 
OK, so the next question 

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episode. 
Yeah, so the next question, when

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asked about their breakup years 
later, 1/2 of this couple that 

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we covered said I was so sad. 
Not angry, sad. 

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I was so miserable. 
I was barely eating and I 

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couldn't get out of bed. 
Feels a little familiar. 

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It does. 
I feel like it's kind of recent.

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Is that Helena Bonham Carter? 
Oh, I said that fast. 

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Well, it's it's not recent. 
I wasn't sure if Mel was asking 

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that just rhetorically or not, 
but it's not a recent couple and

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it's not Helena Bonham Carter 
and Tim Burton. 

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Lena Dunham. 
Nope. 

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Is it Winona Ryder? 
Nope. 

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No. 
Someone who was asked years 

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later. 
Is it Carly Simon? 

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Nope, Kelly, you're all out of 
guesses, OK? 

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Is it Ruby Rose? 
Nope. 

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And Melia, one more guess. 
Oh my gosh. 

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OK, I'm gonna say was it Miley 
Cyrus? 

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Nope. 
No one got it. 

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Who was it it? 
It was Mindy Kaling about her 

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breakup with BJ Novak. 
Oh my God. 

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I brought it all the way back to
the first episode. 

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You're right, that was not 
recent. 

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As far back as he possibly could
get. 

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OK. 
Damn, I need to get this one. 

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Yeah. 
So one last question for either 

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Mel to tie it up or for Kelly to
win. 

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So which couple was 58 and 23 
years old, respectively when 

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they began dating? 
I don't remember doing such an 

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age gap, do you Mel? 
Is this wait, was this King 

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James and George? 
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding. 

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You guys tied This couple that 
we're about to cover has a 

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similar age gap I would say. 
Oh really? 

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I did not. 
Actually, is it? 

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Let me do the math. 
I'm excited because I feel like 

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Caesar and Cleopatra are still 
some of the most famous humans 

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ever and yet I really don't know
much at all about. 

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Them well, you'll be learning a 
lot this episode. 

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So I actually was intrigued to 
do this couple actually, because

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in March of 2024, which would be
close to almost a year from when

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this episode's being released, I
traveled to Egypt. 

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I went there by myself. 
True. 

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Well, not really by myself. 
I was with a tour group, but I 

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went there and I'd really fun 
was I had a lot of fun when I 

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was there. 
I love the food and the places I

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visited and especially loved 
learning about the history. 

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It's just so like rich and 
expensive and fasting. 

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Like it's such such a long 
history. 

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It's a crazy. 
And so anyway, flash forward to 

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when you guys asked me to join 
the pod as the third host, like 

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a couple of months after the 
trip occurred. 

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I knew I wanted to cover an 
Egyptian couple. 

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And although there's like so 
many that I could possibly 

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choose from, like so, so many, I
knew that really I couldn't 

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start with anyone other than 
Cleopatra. 

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But the real question was, like 
Cleopatra and who? 

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I didn't know who to cover, so I
told Kelly a little bit about 

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this. 
But initially I thought I would 

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cover Cleopatra and Mark Antony 
because they're kind of 

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considered like the iconic 
ancient couple. 

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After all, they're the couple 
that Shakespeare wrote a play 

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about. 
Shakespeare wrote Julius Caesar,

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but then he also wrote Mark 
Antony and Cleopatra. 

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Like they're the couple, pretty 
much. 

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They're a couple. 
Yeah, but when I began 

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researching them, I realized 
that I could, like, not cover 

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them. 
At least not without covering. 

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Cleopatra's relationship was 
Caesar first. 

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It was just too difficult not 
to. 

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Like Caesar was just far too 
ingratiated into both Cleopatra 

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and Mark's lives that I'd pretty
much have to tell the whole long

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story of Caesar's life as well 
as Cleopatra's relationship with

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Caesar if I were to cover her 
and Mark first. 

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So in the end, I decide I may as
well start with Caesar and do 

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them first before I ever get to 
her and Mark. 

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So I do plan to get to her and 
Mark. 

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Don't worry. 
Just not yet. 

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So not next week. 
Not next week. 

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Because, OK, it's also a big one
and I didn't want to do 2 giant 

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ones pretty much back-to-back. 
Cool. 

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Yeah, but I will get to them 
probably the next time I'm host.

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Nice. 
But before I begin, I do want to

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say that just like with the 
James and George episode, which 

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go check out if you haven't 
already, which I really love 

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that episode. 
It's Shamus bug because I hosted

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it. 
I loved it too. 

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It was such a wild time. 
Yeah. 

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I feel like we were like 
freaking out the whole. 

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Time, there was a lot of drama 
that, yeah, there's just so much

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history about Rome and Egypt and
even Caesar and Cleopatra's 

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life's that I just actually 
could not fit it all into this 

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episode. 
So just be aware that this will 

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not be completely comprehensive.
I'll try to include everything 

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that's important, especially 
where they pertain to Cleopatra 

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and Caesar. 
But once again, like, it was 

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hard to include everything. 
So if you're a huge history buff

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and you're mad that includes 
some battle or some historical 

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figure, just keep that in mind. 
I'm sorry. 

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I'm sorry. 
I'm sorry. 

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Yeah, it's really tough. 
Yeah. 

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But if you're on the opposite 
side of the spectrum and you 

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listen to this episode with a 
desire to learn more, I highly 

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recommend that you do. 
And I specially recommend that 

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you check out the sources that I
use when researching for this 

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episode, which I used a lot 
'cause I had to. 

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So I read Cleopatra, a source 
book by Prince Jay Jones, The 

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Death of Caesar by Barry 
Strauss, The 12 Caesars by Gaius

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Atonius, Tranquil, and that was 
translated by Robert Graves, 

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Cleopatra Life by Stacey Schiff,
as well as the Julius Caesar and

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Cleopatra articles by Joshua J 
Mark on World History 

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encyclopedia.com. 
Because sometimes I needed 

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things to be explained to me 
like I was a child, and because 

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there's a lot that I didn't 
understand. 

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Oh, I read a book. 
I read another book by Stacey 

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Schiff. 
Oh, really? 

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Salem, yeah, about the Salem 
witch child. 

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She's great, I highly recommend.
This she's. 

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Yeah, that was a very dense 
book. 

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Like in a good way. 
But she really does her 

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research. 
I know. 

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And I felt bad because I was 
reading the book and it was due 

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that night to return to the 
library. 

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So I was really just like flying
through it and like trying to 

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read as much as I could and 
trying to get the information 

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and I was running. 
Get new books. 

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I couldn't because so I got the 
books at my school's library, 

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the school that I work at, and 
they like need all the books 

200
00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,000
before like the semester's over.
I don't know why, like they 

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couldn't renew any of them. 
And then I started like taking 

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pictures of pages. 
So it's like my camera roll was 

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00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,720
like 100 pictures of pages. 
So I could like look at the 

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information later on. 
But anyway, you kind of already 

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mentioned that you didn't really
know much about Caesar and 

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Cleopatra. 
Mel, do you think you know 

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anything really about Season 
Cleopatra before this episode, 

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either separately or together? 
No, really not much at all. 

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00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:46,000
Though my only experience with 
Cleopatra is the Shakespeare 

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play with her and Marc Anthony, 
so I don't know anything about 

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them as a couple. 
I mean, it's kind of crazy. 

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She had two high profile 
relationships. 

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00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,600
I know. 
All I really know about her is 

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00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,920
wasn't she Greek? 
Yes. 

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00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,520
So I'll kind of get into that 
more. 

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00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:06,280
They were like Greek Macedonian.
So she really wasn't at all 

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00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,720
ethnically Egyptian. 
Wow. 

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00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:11,680
Even though she was like the 
queen of Egypt. 

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Twist. 
A twist. 

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00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:14,520
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

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00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:18,680
Well, I think we're ready to 
hear the story. 

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00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,600
Yeah, Kate, what 3 words would 
you use to describe this couple?

223
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,200
Yes. 
So I would use these 3 words. 

224
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:32,720
Describe them powerful, 
mysterious, and promising. 

225
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:37,880
Oh, OK. 
So I'm going to start with 

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00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,360
Caesar because he was born 
first. 

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00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:48,040
So Gaius Julius Caesar was born 
on July 12th or the 13th 100 BC.

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00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,360
People also maybe think he was 
born 102 BC. 

229
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,480
No one really knows for sure but
most people use seem to think 

230
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,480
it's 100 BC so I'm just going to
use that date. 

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00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,560
And he was born to one of the 
high class families or Jens of 

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00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:04,000
ancient Rome called the Julie or
Juliai. 

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00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,040
They were believed to be 
descended from the goddess 

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00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,640
Venus. 
Which in some of the sources I 

235
00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,520
read is just like weirdly 
accepted as facts. 

236
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,280
Which was. 
Descended from Venus. 

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00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:19,240
Yeah, I'm like, I didn't know 
Venus was a real person or like 

238
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:20,920
just existed. 
I don't know. 

239
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,120
That's interesting. 
Maybe she was. 

240
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,960
Maybe, I don't know. 
And then people like turned her 

241
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:34,000
into a mythical maybe being. 
Julius's father, also named 

242
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,080
Gaius Julius Caesar, was a 
Prater or a prater. 

243
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,440
A prater who governed the 
province of Asia and his mother,

244
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,080
Euralia. 
Yeah, I don't know. 

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00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,320
Sorry, all of Asia. 
Yeah, I didn't really look too 

246
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,280
much into his father. 
No, that's OK. 

247
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,520
Yeah, that was what his. 
That's what he's said to have 

248
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,680
been. 
And I think because, you know, 

249
00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:00,480
this was still when Rome was 
like the big empire, they pretty

250
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,320
much ruled like the entire 
world. 

251
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,200
So I think they owned parts of 
Asia, Asia, or like, so they 

252
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,720
owned parts of Asia and he was 
like in charge of overseeing it.

253
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,160
I see. 
And his mother, Euralia Kata, 

254
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,120
was of noble birth. 
However, despite all of this, 

255
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,400
his parents were apparently not 
rich, influential, or notably 

256
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,160
distinguished, I guess. 
Anyway, this might have also 

257
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,680
been because they're part of the
popular political party where 

258
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,240
they believed in more rights for
the lower class and the 

259
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,520
democratization of government, 
which wasn't really a popular 

260
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,080
belief in Rome. 
Even though it's the popular 

261
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,200
political party, it wasn't the 
popular political party, if you 

262
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:41,400
get what I mean. 
I don't know. 

263
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,720
It's confusing because it's 
called popular, but it wasn't 

264
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,000
popular. 
Anyway, when Julius or Caesar 

265
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,440
was just 16, his father passed 
away and Caesar became the new 

266
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,880
head of household. 
And believing that becoming a 

267
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,640
priest would bring the most 
benefit to his family, Caesar 

268
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,560
managed to have himself 
nominated as a new high priest 

269
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,320
of Jupiter, which was a religion
in Rome at the time. 

270
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,520
Oh, interesting. 
But as a priest, Caesar was 

271
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,320
expected to marry a noble woman.
And I didn't mention this 

272
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,440
earlier, but since he was a boy,
Caesar had been promised to bury

273
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,640
a woman named Kasusha, but he 
had to break off the engagement 

274
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,080
when he became a priest because 
while she was rich, she was not 

275
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,320
noble. 
So Caesar instead married a 

276
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,320
woman named Cornelia, who was 
the daughter of a high profile 

277
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,360
man of the popular political 
party that was the same as his 

278
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,360
parents. 
So he's married, but soon after 

279
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,880
a Roman ruler named Sula 
declared himself dictator and 

280
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,440
began a systemic purge of his 
enemies and particularly those 

281
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,240
who held to the popular 
ideology, which Caesar being one

282
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,880
of them. 
So Caesar was forced to flee 

283
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,240
Rome, but then his sentence was 
lifted, so he came back. 

284
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,880
But then Sula tried to have 
Caesar divorce his wife. 

285
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,920
I'm not really entirely sure 
why, and Caesar refused. 

286
00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,600
So then he was stripped of his 
position as a priest and all of 

287
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,920
his money was taken away. 
So without any other options, 

288
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:04,720
Caesar was forced to join the 
army. 

289
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:10,120
How could he just determine 
himself dictator He just like 

290
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:10,960
showed. 
Up Rome. 

291
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,200
In Rome. 
Like. 

292
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,320
I guess and from there's like 
people who are part of like the 

293
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,040
Senate and they just get really 
high and for some reason are 

294
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,200
able to like declare themselves 
as dictator and then they just 

295
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,760
aren't dictator until 
essentially they die, which I 

296
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,680
which usually people kill them. 
So they're not usually dictators

297
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,160
for long. 
Wait, so was dictator, was 

298
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,000
dictator like an official 
position? 

299
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,920
It wasn't like a negative term. 
It was like an actual. 

300
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,640
I think it was like. 
An almost an actual thing. 

301
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,560
Like they called themselves the 
dictator of Rome. 

302
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,520
You know of this empire? 
OK, got it. 

303
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,560
So, but emperors came later. 
So first there's dictators and 

304
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,560
then it became emperors. 
OK. 

305
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,800
Anyway, so Caesar was a great 
soldier. 

306
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,880
I don't think anyone's surprised
in me saying that he'd even 

307
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,920
risen to the ranks of being 
voted a Colonel, but you might 

308
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,520
be surprised to hear that he 
actually wasn't a soldier for 

309
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,599
long, at least at that point in 
his life. 

310
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,160
Shortly after becoming one, 
Emperor Sola died. 

311
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,560
I think he was murdered. 
So Caesar said peace out to the 

312
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,440
army for now and became a lawyer
instead. 

313
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:22,400
Wow. 
So during this time in his life,

314
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:27,599
either 74 or 76 BC when Caesar 
was 26 years old, he and his 

315
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:30,440
wife Cornelia had a child, a 
daughter named Julia. 

316
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:35,440
However, five years later, after
Julia was born in 9 BC, Cornelia

317
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,040
passed away. 
Some people believe in 

318
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,360
childbirth, but no one really 
knows for certain. 

319
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,920
And two years after Cornelia 
died, Caesar married a wealthy 

320
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,600
woman named Pompia, who was 
actually the granddaughter of 

321
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,920
Emperor Asola, who had driven 
him out. 

322
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:53,280
That's kind of funny. 
Yeah. 

323
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:54,920
The guy that like ruined his 
life. 

324
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,040
Yeah, and then he married the 
granddaughter. 

325
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,800
Wow. 
Yeah, but then he divorced her a

326
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,280
couple of years later when she 
cheated on him with another man.

327
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:05,880
Damn. 
Yeah, but don't. 

328
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,160
Believe that was a thing in 
ancient, Yeah. 

329
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,080
What divorce? 
The same, the same, the same 

330
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,040
stuff happened. 
I know. 

331
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,680
Seriously. 
Yeah, but don't feel too sad for

332
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,880
see through though because he 
was also a serial adulterer 

333
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,960
himself so he doesn't really 
have a leg to stand on. 

334
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,880
He was constantly sleeping 
around with plenty of people's 

335
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:29,240
wives, and so I also don't think
he twelled too much on the fact 

336
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,960
that he was getting a divorce, 
or that he had been cheated on 

337
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,880
for that matter, because he'd 
have been recently promoted. 

338
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:39,400
Around that same time, in 62 BC,
he'd been elected as a new 

339
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,200
governor of Spain, and he sailed
there the very next year. 

340
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,320
Oh wow. 
I think we're having our first 

341
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:50,200
governor of Spain on the pot. 
I think, yeah, definitely. 

342
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,240
We did have an ambassador to 
Spain, but this is totally 

343
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,520
different. 
Wait, who was that ambassador to

344
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,400
Spain? 
That was George Vilier. 

345
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,560
Oh, yes, yes. 
Well, I'm not going to go too 

346
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,840
much into his time in Spain, but
while he was there, he married a

347
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,640
woman named Calpurnia, who was 
the daughter of a wealthy and 

348
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,000
powerful popular senator, like 
the same political party his 

349
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,560
parents had been in. 
And he also married his daughter

350
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,960
Julia, who was now either 15 or 
17 years old, to a man named 

351
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,200
Pompey the Great, back in Rome 
to solidify an alliance with 

352
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,760
that man Pompey. 
OK, so he's on his third wife 

353
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,480
now. 
Yes, so he's on his third wife 

354
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,640
and I'll go to a description of 
Caesar at this point in time. 

355
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,640
He's said to be tall, a real 
ladies man. 

356
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,240
Yeah, he's constantly getting 
woman, especially women who are 

357
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:38,720
already married like I 
mentioned. 

358
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:43,200
And he was also bald and really 
insecure about it apparently. 

359
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:50,440
Apparently he combed over what 
hair he had to hide, but he was 

360
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,840
also fashionable and well 
manicured. 

361
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,440
He collected gems, statues and 
antique paintings, and he was 

362
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,040
also said to be lenient and did 
not hold grudges. 

363
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,240
OK, that's good. 
Wow it's so crazy that like even

364
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:09,320
back then people liked antiques.
I know like there was antiques 

365
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,400
that. 
Blows my mind. 

366
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,040
What the hell. 
Oh my God. 

367
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,960
But someday people will say that
about this time period, it was 

368
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,480
so long ago. 
I know. 

369
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,520
I don't see how it came, is it? 
I sometimes do wonder, like wow,

370
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,440
will life really be like Dune or
something? 

371
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,120
Because like, what the heck 
would 2000 years from now be 

372
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:33,800
like? 
Maybe it is like Dune. 

373
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,360
Imagine maybe anyway. 
Yeah. 

374
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:40,720
So anyway, moving on, though, 
Caesar was in Spain. 

375
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,240
He, Pompey and a man named 
Marcus Krassus effectively ruled

376
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,600
Rome at the time. 
They're like the three most 

377
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,720
powerful men in the empire. 
And Caesar is more so as like a 

378
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,480
console and proposing 
legislation because he was in 

379
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,960
Spain. 
He wasn't like directly in Rome 

380
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,240
where the hub of the empire was.
And I didn't really explain how 

381
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,760
that came to be, but because 
it's just so much. 

382
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,160
So if you want to know more, 
just read up about it. 

383
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,400
But Caesar was a very powerful 
man at this time, essentially, 

384
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:13,560
especially after his conquest of
Gaul and the later death of yes,

385
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,200
cool and the later death of 
Crassus in 54 BC. 

386
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,440
And the same year Crassus died, 
one of the three men that were 

387
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,440
like ruling Rome, Caesar's 
daughter Julie Ilya died in 

388
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,280
childbirth, which effectively 
cut all ties between Pompey and 

389
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,960
Caesar. 
And because Caesar was in Rome 

390
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,920
at the time, Pompey had become 
the de facto military and 

391
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,840
political ruler, essentially 
like the dictator, and as such, 

392
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,200
Pompey had the Senate strip. 
Caesar evolves power and titles,

393
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,880
making him just a regular 
private citizen, so that if 

394
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,800
Caesar were to return to Rome, 
he'd be tried for all the things

395
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,640
he did as a Councilman, which 
would be like war crimes 

396
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,880
essentially. 
Yeah, I don't know. 

397
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,560
And rather than flee, Caesar and
his troops instead crossed from 

398
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,160
Gaul into Italy like Rome, and 
marched, well, crossed from Gaul

399
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,200
into Italy and marched on the 
city of Rome and to Pompey. 

400
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:05,920
This was seen as a declaration 
of war. 

401
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,160
And so this then began the Roman
Civil War. 

402
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,120
Oh yeah, How old? 
Is he at this point? 

403
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,400
He. 
Is so this is. 

404
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,640
He's probably like 2452. 
He was about to be a 

405
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,320
grandfather. 
He's never mind. 

406
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,520
He's 5222. 
Wow. 

407
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,360
Yeah, just close to 24. 
Wow. 

408
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,680
Okay, he's lived a lot of life 
so far. 

409
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,760
Yeah, and I'm not going to go 
too much into the details of the

410
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,640
romance of what works. 
Again, it's a lot. 

411
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,600
So please read up on some of the
sources that I listed. 

412
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,720
If you're really interested, I 
encourage you to read anything 

413
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,600
by Barry Strauss. 
I totally recommend him. 

414
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,560
But all I'm going to say is that
during this war, a man's named 

415
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,560
Mark Anthony operated as 
Caesar's second in command. 

416
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,800
And I'm telling you this just so
you remember that Marc Anthony 

417
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,800
is like they worked together. 
And they were roommates. 

418
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,040
Yeah. 
So just telling you that like, 

419
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,240
Mark Ante is in the background. 
He's around for all of this, 

420
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,840
pretty much. 
And that also at one point in 48

421
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,680
BC, Pompey's forces were 
defeated in Greece. 

422
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,880
And so Pompey escaped the 
battlefield and fled to Egypt 

423
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:14,720
and Caesar. 
Pompey. 

424
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:20,760
Followed after Pompey, and so 
Caesar arrived in Egypt in 48 BC

425
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:26,000
at again 52 years of age. 
But by the time Caesar arrived, 

426
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,240
days after Pompey arrived, 
Pompey was already dead. 

427
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,760
Yeah, so he'd been. 
Killed. 

428
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,760
Sorry, I shouldn't laugh. 
What happened? 

429
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,320
This is ancient times like this 
is. 

430
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:43,400
I know and not too. 
Soon or anything, Pompey had 

431
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,200
been killed almost as soon as he
stepped foot onto the shore of 

432
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,800
Egypt by two military 
commanders. 

433
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,440
And why? 
Because they'd been hired by 

434
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,880
King Ptolemy of Egypt, who was 
then 13 years with old, and his 

435
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,840
advisors. 
And they did this because they 

436
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,400
heard of Caesar's victory over 
Pompey and believed that he 

437
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,800
would be a valuable ally in 
their civil war that they were 

438
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,840
fighting against Queen 
Cleopatra. 

439
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,920
And they thought that Caesar 
would be grateful and give them 

440
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,440
a reward for killing Pompey. 
And when Caesar arrived, he was 

441
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:22,000
not grateful and did not give 
their reward when Ptolemy sent 

442
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,280
Caesar Pompey's head and ring. 
Apparently Caesar wept and 

443
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,840
denounced his murder. 
And to the recently exiled Queen

444
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,120
Cleopatra, this looked like an 
open door to allyship because 

445
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:37,400
Caesar obviously didn't think 
favorably of Ptolemy, who she 

446
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,520
was fighting a civil war 
against, and so she wanted meet 

447
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,840
this mysterious Roman man, 
Caesar. 

448
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,200
But who is this mysterious 
Egyptian queen, Queen Cleopatra?

449
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,240
Who is she? 
I don't know, no. 

450
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:57,560
So when Alexander the Great time
without naming a successor in 

451
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:05,360
323 BC, so about 220 years 
before the birth of Caesar, his 

452
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:09,120
Kingdom which extended as far as
Egypt was broken into parts and 

453
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:12,640
divided amongst his generals. 
And Egypt was given to a man 

454
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,000
named Ptolemy, the first to 
rule. 

455
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:18,800
And the Ptolemaic family would 
then go on to rule Egypt for the

456
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,600
next 300 ish years. 
And Cleopatra. 

457
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,720
Cleopatra Patra, the 7th was 
part of the Stine scene. 

458
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,400
Cleopatra the 7th is the one 
that we're covering today. 

459
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,160
That's one of the subjects, 
yeah. 

460
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,120
I didn't even know she was the 
7th. 

461
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:35,120
Yeah, so she's the 7th. 
So she was born in either 70 or 

462
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:37,720
69 BC. 
No one really knows for sure. 

463
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:44,040
She was one of Ptolemy the 12th.
6 children actually. 1 of 

464
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,360
Cleopatra's sisters is actually 
also called Cleopatra. 

465
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,200
Oh, that's so weird. 
For some reason, Cleopatra's a 

466
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,200
very common name of that family,
and same with Ptolemy. 

467
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,240
You're going to hear the name 
Ptolemy so much in this episode,

468
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,840
it's kind of crazy. 
So you'll have to really keep 

469
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,400
them in check because there's 
like a million Ptolemies. 

470
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,920
You don't hear Cleopatra much 
anymore. 

471
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,160
I know, let's bring back the 
name Cleopatra. 

472
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,080
So it's not. 
Your Cleo? 

473
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,640
What is Cleo? 
Cleo's. 

474
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,680
Like kind of show short for 
Cleopatra I think. 

475
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,200
Or is that Clementine? 
Is that a nickname for 

476
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:20,800
Clementine? 
I don't think so. 

477
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,520
I don't know, it could just like
some people are just named Cleo,

478
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,160
so maybe it's not even short for
anything. 

479
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,000
Yeah. 
Anyway, anyway. 

480
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:34,000
Anyway, so it's not certain who 
Cleopatra's mother was, as her 

481
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,840
father's wife, Cleopatra the 
5th, was supposedly dead by the 

482
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,840
time she was born. 
She may have been alive, but 

483
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,400
there was literally no record of
her past 68 BC. 

484
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,800
And Cleopatra, the one we're 
covering, was born in 69 or 70. 

485
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,360
So some see the historians 
theorize that Cleopatra may have

486
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:55,280
been the child of Concamine, 
just as her father had been. 

487
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,880
But at the same time, no one 
ever really questioned 

488
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,960
Cleopatra's legitimacy, not even
the roamers, the Romans, who 

489
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,200
definitely would have. 
So we really don't know who her 

490
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,840
mom is or was. 
That's so odd to not know who 

491
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,720
her mother is. 
Yeah. 

492
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,440
And part of that is because, 
which I'll mention later is 

493
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,160
because of the burning down of 
the library of Alexandra. 

494
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,160
So their history and their 
writings and everything about 

495
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,040
the royal family and pretty much
everybody was like burned and 

496
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,280
destroyed. 
So we have no record. 

497
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:29,640
Oh, OK, so she knew so. 
Much of this stuff she probably 

498
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,760
did, but we don't know. 
Yeah. 

499
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,360
Yeah. 
Is it possible that her mother, 

500
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:37,600
or like her father's wife at 
least, was actually still alive?

501
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,120
She. 
Could have been, she might have 

502
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,880
still been alive. 
We just have no record of her 

503
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,160
still being alive past a certain
year. 

504
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,440
So she might have. 
And though they adopted the 

505
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,880
titles, iconography and 
traditions of the Egyptians and 

506
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,560
of the Pharaoh's past, their 
official language was Greek, 

507
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,640
like you mentioned, Kelly. 
So just keep that in mind. 

508
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,120
So wait, wait, so her family, 
they were just kind of given the

509
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:05,320
Kingdom? 
Yeah, so because Alexander died 

510
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,760
without any heirs, the empire is
broken and divided amongst his 

511
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,640
like generals, and one of his 
generals was Ptolemy, and 

512
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,800
Cleopatra is a descendant of 
Ptolemy who was given. 

513
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,720
OK. 
And Ptolemy wasn't Egyptian? 

514
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,600
No. 
OK, got it. 

515
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,240
Yeah, so Cleopatra's dad was 
supposedly very greedy. 

516
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,600
He was LED astray by luxury and 
ruled rather poorly and spent 

517
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,280
most of his times holding flute 
competitions in the palace where

518
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:40,240
he would be against others. 
And at one point in 58 BC, when 

519
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,360
Cleopatra was 12, he was exiled 
by the people of Alexandria, and

520
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:49,280
his eldest daughter Bernice the 
4th, was made queen in his 

521
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,520
stead. 
Did you go to Alexandria? 

522
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,000
Yeah. 
Wow. 

523
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,680
How was it? 
It was nice. 

524
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,600
I really like it. 
But obviously, like, what I saw 

525
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,160
as Alexandra is not what they 
saw as Alexander. 

526
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:03,680
Yeah. 
You know, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

527
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,640
Did you go to any like ancient 
places though? 

528
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:12,840
Yeah, we went to a bunch of like
temples and altars and tombs and

529
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,720
all the ones that are still 
around or that people have 

530
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,320
found. 
And we also went to the pyramids

531
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:19,760
and the Sphinx. 
Wow. 

532
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,400
Crazy. 
If you guys want to see pictures

533
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,520
of my trip, go to Katie Ander on
Instagram. 

534
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,560
You look so cute, Kate. 
Kate was in like a big hat. 

535
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,960
Yeah. 
Oh, you looked so worldly in 

536
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:36,840
glamorous. 
It was so cool. 

537
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,960
Well, it was believed that 
Cleopatra may have accompanied 

538
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,200
her father into exile during 
this time. 

539
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,600
However, Ptolemy soon came back 
three years later and he had his

540
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,120
daughter Bernice executed in 
himself, restored as king. 

541
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,320
Oh my God. 
I know his family's greatly. 

542
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,960
I know. 
And that really is Game of 

543
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,880
Thrones. 
Very, there's also a lot of like

544
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,440
internal fighting within the 
family, which we'll get into 

545
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,640
later, but I also didn't include
a lot of it also like there's a 

546
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,080
lot of siblings killing each 
other for various. 

547
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,120
Reasons. 
Oh my gosh. 

548
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,120
Well, fun fact actually. 
Ptolemy was actually aided by 

549
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,120
Caesar and Pompey's forces and 
money at this time. 

550
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,720
They were friends. 
They were still like on good 

551
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,880
terms at this time to restore 
the throne, and Cesar actually 

552
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,080
wanted to be general governor of
Egypt, but the Roman Senate 

553
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,440
wouldn't let him. 
So Cesar already had a 

554
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,480
relationship with Cleopatra's 
family long before they ever 

555
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,080
actually met. 
Interesting. 

556
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,320
But anyway, so As for Ptolemy, 
his reign did not last for long 

557
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,920
as he died shortly after 
regaining the throne from 

558
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,240
disease in 51 BC. 
And so after he died, 18 year 

559
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:50,360
old Cleopatra and her 10 year 
old brother Ptolemy the 13th 

560
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,960
were then made joint rulers of 
Egypt as well as spouses. 

561
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,520
What? 
Oh no. 

562
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,240
It's also very Game of Thrones. 
Egyptian pharaoh thing. 

563
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,760
I don't know, blame them. 
They were just following the Way

564
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,800
of the Lands when in Egypt I 
guess. 

565
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,360
Yeah, so she's 18. 
Yeah, so she's. 18 and she's 

566
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,680
like betrothed to her 13 year 
old brother. 

567
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,720
That's so embarrassed. 
Old brother. 

568
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,640
Yeah, crazy. 
Take a drink. 

569
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,120
Yeah, take a drink. 
I don't think we've done 

570
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,360
siblings. 
No, no, that's a no this. 

571
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,840
Is this is yo Dick? 
Well, do you think anything? 

572
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,520
I guess we could wait to hear 
the story, but like, did 

573
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:38,000
anything actually happen? 
I don't think so, no, I don't 

574
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,280
think anything happens between 
her and her brother husband. 

575
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,160
They probably were super 
embarrassed about it. 

576
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,440
Well, it's because this was so 
kind of common for them, because

577
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,480
they were just, even though they
were Greek, they really want to 

578
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,840
adapt themselves to like the 
Egyptian way of ruling. 

579
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,120
And for centuries, Egyptian 
Pharaohs have been marrying like

580
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,280
within the family. 
So they just thought that this 

581
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,680
is what Egyptian Pharaohs did. 
So I don't know. 

582
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,800
Seems like they don't have the 
same like family dynamics and 

583
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,840
like attitudes that we have 
today. 

584
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,000
Like even just like about her 
dad executing his own child like

585
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,040
it that just wouldn't happen. 
That's. 

586
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,800
No. 
We have boundaries up that 

587
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,440
prevent stuff like that. 
That would. 

588
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,760
Like they didn't. 
I mean, they don't have Jesus 

589
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:25,720
yet. 
So. 

590
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,480
Serious about Jesus? 
True. 

591
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:34,920
It's true. 
It's true. 

592
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,800
Yeah, that is true. 
Well anyway, Cleopatra at this 

593
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,840
time is described as beautiful, 
captivating, persuasive, smart, 

594
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:48,040
she knew 9 languages and she was
a real woman of the people. 

595
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,520
She was apparently the only one 
of her family, not just like her

596
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,920
immediate family, but the whole 
Ptolemaic ancestry, to have ever

597
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,200
learned the Egyptian language. 
Wow. 

598
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,640
And yeah, and reading about her,
she really reminds me of 

599
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,120
Princess Diana. 
She's very popular amongst the 

600
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,520
people. 
So popular, so much in fact, 

601
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:13,440
that her brother Ptolemy was 
jealous of that fact, and very 

602
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,680
jealous. 
And in 48 BC, only about 

603
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,480
3:00-ish years since getting the
throne, him and Cleopatra, 

604
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,680
Ptolemy formed a faction against
her and tried to depose her as 

605
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,080
Queen. 
And Cleopatly, yeah, he's like, 

606
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,280
12 or 13 at this point in time. 
He also had advisors that were 

607
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,840
like, you know, what to do, so 
they might be at fault. 

608
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,920
So Cleopatra was forced to flee 
to Syria. 

609
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,440
But then she soon organized her 
own army, and a civil war 

610
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,240
erupted soon after. 
And this is the civil war that 

611
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,120
Caesar walks into while he's on 
his hunt for a copy. 

612
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:52,240
So she's against her brother? 
Yeah, wow, siblings fighting 

613
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,280
against each other. 
I I love that people rallied 

614
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,360
behind their queen. 
And she would have just been 

615
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,120
like just the queen. 
But apparently according to the 

616
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,920
laws at the time, a queen had to
have like a Co Regent. 

617
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,639
She couldn't just rule by 
herself so that's why she's 

618
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:12,639
paired with her brother. 
But like rightfully, it should 

619
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:15,360
have gone to just her. 
Yeah, I mean, he's too young 

620
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,120
anyway. 
I know, crazy. 

621
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,320
So instead of simply just 
sending letters back and forth, 

622
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,800
they're talking through 
intermediaries. 

623
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,679
Because she didn't trust either 
to not be caught by her brother,

624
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,239
Cleopatra set up a date and time
for her and Caesar to secretly 

625
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,679
talk face to face because she, 
you know, wanted to talk to him 

626
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:36,679
to potentially go against her 
brother and have him as an ally 

627
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:39,880
in the civil war. 
And Caesar, intent on ending the

628
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,920
civil war in Egypt, accepted. 
He had seen what a civil war had

629
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,000
done to grow when he fought 
Pompey and how that ended and he

630
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,880
didn't want the same to happen 
in Egypt. 

631
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,320
So Cleopatra apparently dressed 
in all her best clothes and 

632
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,200
jewelry and was taken by small 
boat into the city of Alexandria

633
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,880
as she was kept out of it by the
time by her brother's forces. 

634
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,960
So then she was smuggled into 
the palace where Caesar was 

635
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,840
staying. 
She was either tied inside of a 

636
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,280
bedding sack or rolled up inside
a carpet. 

637
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:14,320
I don't really know sources 
theory, but either way, she was 

638
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,200
able to safely reach Caesar and 
immediately he was taken with 

639
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,080
her. 
He thought she was charming, 

640
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,800
eloquent, and above all, 
alluring. 

641
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,640
He was also impressed by her 
cutting strategy and her 

642
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,040
encourage to sneak into the 
castle. 

643
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,320
Historians don't know the exact 
date of when they first met, 

644
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,960
however, they do know that it 
was before dawn when their 

645
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,040
conversation went down. 
The early hour was notable 

646
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,960
because the Caesar had the king 
Ptolemy, her brother, awoken and

647
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,920
brought to his chambers. 
Ptolemy did as was requesting, 

648
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,160
came to Caesar for him to find 
Cleopatra there. 

649
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,280
And he was like, what? 
Like he was really enraged. 

650
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,640
He's like, what's going on? 
Is Caesar going to betray me? 

651
00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:54,160
Did he already like, why is 
Cleopatra here? 

652
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,560
But instead of deposing Ptolemy 
in favor of Cleopatra, Caesar 

653
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,080
told Ptolemy that according to 
the Egyptian custom, the Roman 

654
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,240
people had guardianship over 
them. 

655
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:05,880
And since Caesar was the 
dictator of Rome, now that 

656
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,600
Pompey was dead, he granted 
Egypt to both Ptolemy and 

657
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,040
Cleopatra dress as his father 
willed it. 

658
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,680
So basically just telling them 
like, hey, you're gonna be Co 

659
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,240
rulers. 
Just accept it, you know, like, 

660
00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:19,680
this is what your father wanted,
be Co rulers. 

661
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,720
And I'm. 
And they're like Peter wrote, so

662
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,920
I'm telling you what to do. 
Yeah. 

663
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,680
So Cleopatra was. 
And is that true? 

664
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,960
Like? 
Is it true Egypt was Was Egypt 

665
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,120
just like part of the Roman 
Empire? 

666
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,840
It was like part of it in a way.
Like it was, it wasn't like 

667
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,960
fully a part of it. 
Like it wasn't annexed by them. 

668
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,880
It's kind of like, OK, it's not 
like Hawaii in the United 

669
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,560
States. 
It's more like Puerto Rico in 

670
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,400
the United States, you know, 
like something like that or like

671
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:50,920
Guam, you know. 
Interesting. 

672
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,480
Analogy, yeah. 
Yeah, like it's kind of a part 

673
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,640
of the Empire, but it's not like
fully part of the Empire yet. 

674
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,400
They're kind of like you don't 
do anything without our 

675
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:03,440
permission. 
Yeah. 

676
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,280
But you are. 
Specially especially after 

677
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,320
Caesar helps to restore Ptolemy 
to the throne. 

678
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:16,120
Before Rome had way more of a 
foothold in Egypt than it did 

679
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,240
before, but it still had a 
foothold there prior. 

680
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,000
OK. 
OK yeah, so now everybody was 

681
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,200
happy with Caesar's idea, 
damely, Ptolemy and also his 

682
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,080
advisors. 
They wanted to kill Caesar in 

683
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,400
Cleopatra and Caesar found out 
about this and killed one of the

684
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,760
King's advisors. 
And after that, an all out 

685
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,600
attack was launched against 
Caesar's men and Alexandria in 

686
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,000
this fight. 
This was actually when the 

687
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:44,040
Library of Alexandria, quote UN 
quote, burned down the Ptolemy. 

688
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,680
Ptolemy had blockaded Caesar's 
fleet in the Wharf and some of 

689
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,760
his soldiers, Caesar soldiers, 
set fire to some of the Egyptian

690
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,240
strips to free some of the room 
up in the Wharf. 

691
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,520
But the fire spread to the docks
and then to the library. 

692
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,680
However, most historians believe
that the library actually 

693
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,280
suffered minimal damage or was 
not completely destroyed by 

694
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,600
Caesar's fires, despite what 
many people believe. 

695
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,800
Like if you look it up, most 
like everybody believes said it 

696
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:13,520
was Caesar and this war that 
burnt down the library of 

697
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,560
Alexandra. 
Like they're the ones to blame. 

698
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,760
But actually the burning of 
Alexandria. 

699
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:24,040
I did like some side research. 
Sorry, fun fact, the actual 

700
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,680
burning of Alexandria that would
destroy it forever would not be 

701
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:34,800
until 642 AD when Alexander was 
captured by the Arab army of 

702
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,640
Khalif Umar and they burned down
the library of Alexander. 

703
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:44,040
Why did they do that? 
Well, they said that a lot of 

704
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,000
what was in the library wasn't 
like it didn't align with their 

705
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,600
religious beliefs, so they 
burned it down. 

706
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,520
I don't know if you know the 
answer to this but like is it 

707
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,600
actually like very significant 
and tragic that it was burnt? 

708
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,520
Like worst serious? 
I'm guessing yes. 

709
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,880
It's really bad that everything 
was lost because like, again, 

710
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,520
like we did lose so much about 
Cleopatra and her family and 

711
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,840
almost everything about like 
Egypt essentially. 

712
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,400
Like we don't really know a lot 
of history about Egypt because 

713
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,480
of this, because everything that
was about their history was 

714
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,480
pretty much like in the museum. 
So, so many records were burned.

715
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,680
But also the Library of 
Alexandria was part of like a 

716
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,000
museum as well as a university. 
And so that burned down as well.

717
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,560
So all of the records that they 
had regarding like any math 

718
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,480
advancements or scientific 
advancements and stuff like that

719
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,920
was also burned. 
So potentially if it hadn't 

720
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,640
burned, who knows where we might
have been scientifically or 

721
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,280
mathematically or like where we 
would be in terms of 

722
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,080
advancements because of that, 
you know? 

723
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,840
Wow. 
Damn, yeah. 

724
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:56,360
Maybe it's good to slow it down 
though, you know? 

725
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,520
I don't, maybe it would be too 
far advanced. 

726
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:05,680
You know AI, Yeah. 
Yeah, slow it down, I. 

727
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,640
Know I feel like we almost need 
like another reset, you know 

728
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,360
like let's. 
Burn down the meta server, yeah.

729
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,840
Seriously. 
Anyway, anyway, going back to 48

730
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:25,320
BC, presumably at this point in 
time Caesar and Cleopatra began 

731
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,480
a romantic relationship. 
And how How old are they both at

732
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,360
this point? 
Like 23. 

733
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:38,520
So she is. 
So he's about 52 and she's 21. 

734
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:39,680
Wow. 
Yeah. 

735
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,160
So big age. 
She's like really young or 

736
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,320
anything. 
It's an age difference, but you 

737
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,720
know, not the worst. 
But really, I mean it, it's so 

738
00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:49,920
much better than being with your
10 year old brother. 

739
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,160
Yeah, yeah. 
Now, like historians don't 

740
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,640
really know exactly who came on 
to who or who initiated 

741
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,960
relationship. 
Popular belief is that it was 

742
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:03,080
Cleopatra's idea, but I 
personally have a hard time 

743
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,520
accepting that fact as like the 
gospel truth. 

744
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,760
And I'll tell you why for stars,
because we don't have 

745
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,160
Cleopatra's Diaries. 
She might have had one, but 

746
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,640
again, it might have burned with
the Library of Alexandria. 

747
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,600
So we don't know. 
And we don't really know a lick 

748
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,760
about her thoughts and feelings 
or motivations. 

749
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,160
And we don't really know 
anything about Caesar as well. 

750
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,720
Like, he did write various 
memories throughout his memoirs 

751
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:31,120
throughout his life, but they 
were quite dry and documented 

752
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,720
very little about his personal 
relationships. 

753
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:36,240
It was very much like facts. 
I did this. 

754
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,320
This happens, blah blah blah 
blah, you know? 

755
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,280
I feel like so many of the men 
we've covered on this podcast, 

756
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,000
that's how their Diaries have 
been. 

757
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:43,920
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

758
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,080
It's like, oh, that's cute. 
They kept a diary, but then all 

759
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,400
they did was write like I ate 
today. 

760
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:54,640
Yeah, That is pretty much, I 
think in like all of Caesar's 

761
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,400
writings through his whole life,
he only wrote one sentence about

762
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,280
Cleopatra and it was to say that
she was a loyal ally to Rome and

763
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:02,360
that's it. 
What? 

764
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:08,560
Yeah, it's not romantic at. 
All I know it's considering like

765
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,680
the romance that they had that's
so like minuscule to say about 

766
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,480
her. 
And so because we don't really 

767
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,920
have anything from Cleopatra and
Caesar themselves. 

768
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,920
Most everything we know about 
them are from secondary sources 

769
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,960
like Plutarch or the guy with a 
long name that I mentioned 

770
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,680
earlier in this episode when I 
was listening my sources. 

771
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,560
So we don't really know anything
about them personally because 

772
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,240
the second secondary sources 
didn't know them personally. 

773
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:35,400
They were born like centuries 
later and they got their 

774
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,600
information from people who were
alive at the time. 

775
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,880
But the people who were alive at
the time who wrote were heavily 

776
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,240
biased against Caesar and 
Cleopatra, but mostly Cleopatra.

777
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,320
Most of the primary sources were
written by Romans who hated her.

778
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,520
They hated her like they 
seriously hated her, 

779
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,840
particularly a man named Cicero,
who I won't really go into, but 

780
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,960
he was her biggest hater and he 
wrote a lot. 

781
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,760
So he's like almost one of the 
number one sources there is. 

782
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:06,160
So he thought she was like an 
evil, cunning seductress who was

783
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,240
a floozy whore and like 
manipulator, like a succubus. 

784
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,840
And he he blamed her for his 
eventual death. 

785
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,680
Like spoiler alert. 
And so because Cicero and all 

786
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,400
these Romans writings who hated 
Cleopatra, like are the only 

787
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:25,440
ones that survived, people take 
those as the gospel truth and 

788
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,720
then perpetuate them into the 
secondary sources like Plutarch,

789
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:31,200
like 100 years later in ancient 
times. 

790
00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:34,960
And historians today still take 
those as gospel truth and 

791
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:39,240
perpetuate that as well. 
And some historians like to flip

792
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:41,640
the story on its head by saying 
like, oh, but Cleopatra was just

793
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,200
being like a girl boss by 
manipulating him. 

794
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,800
But like, as positively as you 
like to spin it, there's still 

795
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,160
perpetuating lie that she's like
this evil whore pretty much, you

796
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,200
know, And well, I can see that 
politics may have been a 

797
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,920
motivation for Cleopatra 
engaging in a relationship with 

798
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,920
Caesar and vice versa. 
Like, after all, Cleopatra was 

799
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:03,720
really rich. 
She was like the richest person 

800
00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:06,040
alive at this time. 
And Caesar did have a lot of 

801
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,760
debt, partially because of all 
the antiques he was buying. 

802
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:13,000
And Caesar was the ruler of the 
most powerful empire on earth at

803
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,480
the time and thus could offer a 
lot of safety and protection as 

804
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,480
an ally. 
And so that could have been a 

805
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,960
motivation. 
But I think it's kind of 

806
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,280
limiting to say that that was 
like the only reason, because I 

807
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,200
think that feeds into this myth 
that's been perpetuated 

808
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,320
basically since Cleopatra was 
even alive. 

809
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:36,040
And so the myth is in modern 
terms, kind of like it was APR 

810
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,120
relationship. 
Not that there was APR 

811
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:39,800
relationship. 
Not for the, not for. 

812
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,320
Not that it was, but not for the
right, not. 

813
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,400
For the right reasons, like she 
was just manipulating him with 

814
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:51,720
her sexuality to get him to do 
what he wanted and enslaved him 

815
00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:56,520
to her desires and like she was 
just using him essentially. 

816
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,160
And that's the lie that's been 
told by the people who were 

817
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:01,960
alive at the time, who were 
Romans who hated her. 

818
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,480
And then the secondary sources 
of the people who were born, 

819
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:09,360
like, hundreds of years later, 
they took those writings of 

820
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,240
gospel truth, and they 
perpetuate that lie. 

821
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,360
And then historians said, hey, 
they don't have any other, you 

822
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,400
know, sources to use. 
So they think, oh, that, you 

823
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,320
know, like this is what we have 
of Cleopatra. 

824
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,600
It must be true. 
So this is who Cleopatra was. 

825
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,240
But I think it kind of removed 
something from Cleopatra's 

826
00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:28,240
character to say she was just in
it for the power and security 

827
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:30,600
and nothing else. 
It kind of removes her agency to

828
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,160
say that she's like kind of 
forced into the relationship in 

829
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,280
a sense. 
Like she was forced into the 

830
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,440
relationship with her brother 
and then in another relationship

831
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,240
later on. 
And for the total make 

832
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,360
generations, like women were 
constantly forced into these 

833
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,880
political marriages. 
And so I think just to force 

834
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:51,680
Cleopatra into another one is 
kind of diminishing her will as 

835
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,680
a queen in a way. 
Yeah. 

836
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,160
Anyway, what else? 
What else do you know about 

837
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:57,240
their story? 
I guess, yeah. 

838
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,360
Well, I'll get into that. 
Well, all I have to say is that 

839
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,720
I have my own biases and I'm a 
homos romantic. 

840
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:05,720
So kind of as I said in the 
James and George episode, I like

841
00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:09,400
to believe that maybe there was 
more to just convenience and 

842
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,920
political alliances there. 
Maybe not love, but maybe love. 

843
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,840
I don't know. 
But don't take my word for it. 

844
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,240
Like I could also be wrong. 
So let me know what you think at

845
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:20,520
the end of this episode. 
But just know that many 

846
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,000
historians believe that 
Cleopatra went to Cesar 

847
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,520
initially, this seduced him, and
she seemed to have been as 

848
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,800
successful. 
So, yeah, So what we do know, 

849
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,760
like I said again, like we don't
really know much, but what we do

850
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,680
know is that even though there 
was a war going on still between

851
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,280
Ptolemy and Cleopatra, she and 
Cesar would host parties 

852
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,400
together and cruise together on 
the Nile on her state March. 

853
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,000
Wow. 
So are they married or are they 

854
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,480
just kind of courting each 
other? 

855
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,200
Who's kind of courting? 
Because again, he is still 

856
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,080
married. 
Oh oh. 

857
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,080
Yeah, so he's still with 3rd. 
He's still with his third wife, 

858
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:59,040
Cornelia, and she's also 
technically still married to her

859
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:04,360
brother. 
Yeah, but whatever, OK. 

860
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,720
But Speaking of her brother. 
They're cruising around them. 

861
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,560
Yeah, cruising on the Nile. 
And Speaking of the Nile and 

862
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:16,240
also Speaking of her brother, in
January 47th BC, Cesar engaged 

863
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:18,880
in a naval battle against 
Ptolemy on the river. 

864
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,680
And during this battle, the 
Egyptians were forced to flee 

865
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,840
and tell me Cleopatra's brother 
husband drowned and died. 

866
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,600
Oh. 
My God, that's sad. 

867
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,760
That's yeah, that's convenient. 
I know, I know. 

868
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,600
Kind of finishes off that story 
nicely. 

869
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,000
So is the Civil War over? 
Yeah, so the civil war is now 

870
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:38,880
over. 
Nice. 

871
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,960
So after this Caesar placed 
Cleopatra on the throne 

872
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,680
alongside one of her other 
brothers because again she had 

873
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,640
to have a Co region and this was
another Ptolemy but this time 

874
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,760
the 14th and Cleopatra was also 
married to marry this brother 

875
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,640
also. 
And how old is this brother? 

876
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:55,680
Is he? 
Even younger. 

877
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,760
I think he he was even younger. 
I think he was like 10 also like

878
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,000
Oh my. 
God, she can't catch a break. 

879
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,120
She had two younger brothers and
she married both of them. 

880
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,360
Oh my gosh. 
Anyway, Caesar could have left 

881
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:10,880
after that. 
He didn't really need to hang 

882
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,480
around Egypt, considering the 
civil war was over and he 

883
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:15,840
accomplished what he wanted to 
accomplish. 

884
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,320
He could have really returned to
Rome as its rightful dictator, 

885
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,720
especially since there were 
enemies rising up in his 

886
00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:24,200
absence, but instead he hung 
around for a while. 

887
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,400
Supposedly they were inseparable
at this point in time and spent 

888
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,320
weeks together on her barge on 
the Nile. 

889
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,800
They would spend like 3 to 9 
weeks at a time just sailing. 

890
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,960
Wow, yeah. 
And sounds fun. 

891
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,360
Yeah, and I know it sounds, it 
sounded nice. 

892
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:42,000
I was like, yo, like I did a 
river cruise on the Nile, but 

893
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,720
like on a like a barge that was 
like a royal, like apparently 

894
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:50,960
it's pretty much a palace that 
was just floating on the river 

895
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,760
like a palace. 
I was like, oh, I wish. 

896
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:56,440
Oh. 
Well, this makes me think they, 

897
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,600
they had a real passionate 
relationship because you're 

898
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:01,040
right. 
Like, why wouldn't he just go 

899
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,840
back to Rome? 
He he would have been like, OK, 

900
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,160
cool, I have an ally here. 
Yeah, the war's over. 

901
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,080
I'm going back. 
Like why would he just stay? 

902
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,800
Well, one of the reasons he 
might not have wanted to leave 

903
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,240
is because at this point in 
time, Cleopatra's actually 

904
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:19,520
pregnant with their child. 
Oh my God. 

905
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,120
So they were having sex. 
Yeah. 

906
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,120
I didn't know that was happening
for some reason. 

907
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:31,760
I know I. 
Know schedulers? 

908
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,880
Oh my. 
God, and they probably like it 

909
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,880
probably took them a while to 
figure out someone was pregnant 

910
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,400
too. 
Like I'm sure they did like 

911
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,040
followed the moon and 
everything, but like it probably

912
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,000
took longer. 
So she's probably like pretty 

913
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,040
far along, right? 
Exactly. 

914
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:53,920
So they've been fucking sorry 
since they've been fucking since

915
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,440
like while the war was going on,
you know? 

916
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:57,840
Oh. 
My God. 

917
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,040
Well, you needed, you know, an 
escape. 

918
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,120
Yeah. 
That's crazy. 

919
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:12,400
Yeah, well, Ptolemy the 15th was
born on June 23rd, 47 BC and in 

920
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,840
some sources it says that Caesar
was there for the birth and left

921
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,760
for Rome shortly after, and in 
others it says that he'd been 

922
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,640
gone for months at this point. 
So I don't really know what 

923
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,120
exactly to be exactly to 
believe. 

924
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,480
But either way, those Caesar did
not officially acknowledge 

925
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,560
Ptolemy as his own. 
He legally couldn't because he 

926
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,600
was married and that would be 
like a crime in Rome. 

927
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,840
Yeah, makes sense. 
Yeah, he did. 

928
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:37,400
I can't believe. 
Oh, sorry. 

929
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:37,920
What? 
No. 

930
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,560
What you're gonna say? 
I was gonna say I can't believe 

931
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:41,320
they used this name again. 
I know. 

932
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,720
I know there's so many taller I 
swear. 

933
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,240
I'm sorry, I keep like bringing 
it up and I'm sorry, Mel, I know

934
00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:50,160
you didn't watch it, but it's so
Game of Thrones. 

935
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,200
How's the dragon with like? 
Everyone. 

936
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:53,440
A gone. 
A gone. 

937
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,240
Yeah. 
Yeah, literally. 

938
00:50:56,240 --> 00:50:58,760
I think this has to be an 
inspiration for it. 

939
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,960
It has to be. 
And the fact that Daenerys, I 

940
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,120
feel like they also came from 
somewhere that seemed 

941
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,400
geographically like Egypt in a 
way. 

942
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,080
Yeah, Yeah. 
Anyway. 

943
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:11,560
Well anyway, so then, so 
although he couldn't officially 

944
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,960
acknowledge Ptolemy as his own 
because he legally couldn't, he 

945
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,720
did allow the child to take his 
name, which is not something you

946
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:18,760
would do for a kid that isn't 
your own. 

947
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,120
So it's a little suspicious of 
some people. 

948
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:25,560
So the child's full name is 
Ptolemy Caesar, or Caesar, Carry

949
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,440
on as everybody called him. 
Wow. 

950
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,080
And I'll probably just call him 
Cesarean for the rest of it 

951
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,120
because calling him Ptolemy is 
just like, there's too many. 

952
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,440
It's it'll confuse. 
Me wait are like C sections like

953
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,720
named after Caesar? 
Many people believe so, because 

954
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,520
apparently it's believed that 
Caesar was the first person to 

955
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,800
be born via C-section. 
Maybe. 

956
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,240
What? 
That's so crazy. 

957
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:51,840
Yeah, that's crazy. 
You knew. 

958
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,600
That off the top of your. 
Head like that. 

959
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:57,840
Well, I had heard that too. 
I didn't know he was born 

960
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,120
there's. 
I know it was like him, but I 

961
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:04,040
knew there's. 
Some connection to it, so yeah, 

962
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:05,440
so. 
Maybe, maybe it's just like 

963
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,240
during his time that, like, 
practice started happening, 

964
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:09,720
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

965
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,800
Well, anyway, so his kids 
caesarean and that's, you know, 

966
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:17,040
C-section, so caesarean. 
So Cleopatra was also very vocal

967
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,680
about the fact that Cesar was 
the father of Caesarean, and 

968
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,840
later in life a lot of people 
remark that Caesarean very much 

969
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,040
looked like Caesar. 
So I don't think it's really up 

970
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,720
for debate whether or not Caesar
was the father. 

971
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,600
It's like a fact, pretty much. 
I I mean, what did people think?

972
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,760
That the kids father was her 
brother? 

973
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:35,360
Yeah. 
Yeah, like that's the only other

974
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,160
option I guess. 
You would if you were her in 

975
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,680
that position. 
You would be vocal about that 

976
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:42,480
too. 
You're like, it's not my 10 year

977
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:50,080
old kid brother. 
However, the historian Nicholas 

978
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,600
de Damascus, who was alive 
during the 1st century, which is

979
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,360
after, you know, Caesar and Clet
Patrick, say that Julius Caesar 

980
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,600
actually disowned Cesarean in 
his will. 

981
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,360
But there are no sources or 
texts that support this claim, 

982
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,560
and many historians doubt that 
Caesar would go to such lengths 

983
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,240
by this thought to include that 
in 46 BC. 

984
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:13,080
So Caesar had been gone to Rome 
for some time. 

985
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,880
He had also been elsewhere, 
just, like, fighting little 

986
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,840
battles that had popped up 
because people have, like, 

987
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,920
started to pop up to climb, you 
know, power in Rome. 

988
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:25,120
And he had to quell that. 
So he'd been in Rome for a 

989
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,240
little bit of time. 
Caesar invited Cleopatra and 

990
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:30,920
their son to travel to Rome, and
Cleopatra accepted. 

991
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:32,200
Nice. 
Yeah. 

992
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,000
So many sources say that 
Cleopatra took her brother 

993
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,160
husband with her to Rome. 
So I don't know who was ruling 

994
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:39,880
Egypt at this time in their 
stead. 

995
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,840
It was when someone Cleopatra 
trusted to not revolt and take 

996
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:46,080
over while they were gone. 
Or maybe she figured that since 

997
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,560
she had Caesar wrapped around 
her finger, or like since she 

998
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,120
was with him and he was one of 
the most powerful men in the 

999
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,920
world at the time, that no one 
would dare cross her. 

1000
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,640
But either way, she went to Rome
with her brother and her son. 

1001
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,520
Wow. 
And again, like in case you 

1002
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,160
forgot, Caesar is still married 
at this time to a woman in 

1003
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,520
Calpurnia. 
So when Kelly Patrick came to 

1004
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,680
Rome, she didn't actually stay 
with Caesar directly, but 

1005
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,000
instead she stayed in one of his
luxurious villas. 

1006
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:13,640
Wow. 
Now despite though. 

1007
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,240
How did she even get the 
message? 

1008
00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:17,720
How are they doing mail from 
Rome? 

1009
00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:20,880
I don't know. 
I don't know if people crazy. 

1010
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,120
I don't think people have 
invented, I guess, through the 

1011
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,880
Mediterranean. 
It's not that far, I suppose, 

1012
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:29,640
from Italy to Egypt. 
Yeah. 

1013
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,400
Through boat maybe, because you 
don't have to go like all the 

1014
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,520
way around Africa, you could 
just go through the 

1015
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,840
Mediterranean. 
So maybe it's not as difficult 

1016
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,920
as we think, but still probably 
would take a while. 

1017
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,840
Now despite the fact that Rome 
at this time had very strict 

1018
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,920
bigamy laws and the fact that 
they were kept apart in 

1019
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,640
different houses, Caesar and 
Cleopatra were very late, 

1020
00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:51,480
apparently very open about the 
fact that they were lovers. 

1021
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,080
Caesar granted her the highest 
honors and awards. 

1022
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,480
He even had a gold plated statue
of her be placed in the temple 

1023
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,200
of Venus. 
Jedidricks, his supposed 

1024
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,200
ancestor. 
And Caesar at this time even 

1025
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:06,400
tried to have a law passed that 
would allow a man to take many 

1026
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,560
wives. 
And many believe he tried to get

1027
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,120
that law passed so he could 
marry Cleopatra. 

1028
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,280
But for some reasons, I don't 
think he was able to succeed. 

1029
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,960
I think in part because he 
wasn't yet fully the political 

1030
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,480
dictator. 
He was a dictator in some ways, 

1031
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,960
but he still had to, like, get 
some things past the Senate 

1032
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:26,440
because the Senate still 
existed. 

1033
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,240
And he was also very unfavorable
among amongst pretty much 

1034
00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:32,760
everybody else. 
And also because Caesar wasn't 

1035
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,080
really around at this point in 
time to campaign all that 

1036
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:39,120
heavily for his idea, because he
wasn't really in Rome all that 

1037
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,520
much. 
Not just because he was with 

1038
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,480
Cleopatra, but because he was 
actually fighting another war. 

1039
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,640
At this point in time. 
Pompey's sons had risen up and 

1040
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,720
joined a resistance against 
Caesar and retaliation for their

1041
00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:53,200
father's death, even though 
Caesar wasn't really the one at 

1042
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:54,240
fault. 
But whatever. 

1043
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:59,440
And so Caesar had to go to Spain
and then Portugal to lead armies

1044
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,360
against them during pretty much 
all of 45 BC. 

1045
00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:06,000
And during this time, Caesar 
adopted his great nephew 

1046
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,480
Augustus, and Caesar named him 
as his heir. 

1047
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,200
Wow. 
And so it's like July and 

1048
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,520
August, Yeah. 
And during this time, when 

1049
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,760
Caesar was off fighting, it was 
really that Cleopatra and her 

1050
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,360
son went back to Egypt, but then
returned to Rome when he did, 

1051
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,360
like when the fighting was over,
he came back. 

1052
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:30,480
So by 44 BC, Caesar had defeated
his enemies abroad, the sons of 

1053
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,160
Pompey, and declared himself as 
a complete dictator of Rome. 

1054
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:37,400
However, because of this, he 
created many enemies for himself

1055
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,400
domestically. 
People didn't like that. 

1056
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,480
No, according to Plutarch, a 
Greek philosopher who was alive 

1057
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,840
during the 1st century, a seer 
had. 

1058
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:50,320
Attacked Heaven's Bee. 
Yeah, another Hunger Games. 

1059
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,560
We just talked about them last 
week as well. 

1060
00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:56,560
I think that was last week or 
was that the week before, 2 

1061
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:57,480
weeks ago? 
That was two weeks. 

1062
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:59,080
It was a trivia question, but 
yeah. 

1063
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:03,520
Anyway, so a seer had apparently
warned Caesar that he would be 

1064
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,760
harmed on the Eyes of March, 
which basically means the middle

1065
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:08,480
of the month, which was the 
15th. 

1066
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:16,840
And Yep, well, March 15th, 44 BC
came and it did not start great.

1067
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,960
First, Caesar and his wife 
Caperna had a bad dream. 

1068
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:21,360
I don't really know about 
Cleopatra. 

1069
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:22,800
If she had a bad dream, she 
might have. 

1070
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,080
And then on his way to the 
theater of Pompey for a Senate 

1071
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,480
meeting, Caesar passed the same 
seer who had given him that 

1072
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:33,960
ominous fortune and joked 
essentially like, well, the Eyes

1073
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,360
of March have come and like 
nothing's happened. 

1074
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:41,040
And the C replied, I, they have 
come, but they are not gone. 

1075
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:45,200
And after that, Caesar entered 
the Senate meeting where he was 

1076
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:50,680
then stabbed 23 times. 
What is this common? 

1077
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,840
Last words, yes I would say so, 
but. 

1078
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,480
It's in the it's in the 
Shakespeare play, yeah. 

1079
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:58,320
And most people know this but 
it. 

1080
00:57:58,320 --> 00:57:59,800
Just so happened. 
But yeah. 

1081
00:57:59,960 --> 00:58:02,320
Just happens if you read it or 
not in school. 

1082
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,440
I did. 
If you haven't read it, you 

1083
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:08,960
probably wouldn't know. 
I was made to read Julius 

1084
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,240
Caesar, but I didn't have to 
read the Cleopatra and Mark 

1085
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,200
Antony 1. 
Same. 

1086
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,280
Well, we're both a Mr. 
Cordamont, right? 

1087
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:19,520
Yeah, what now? 
I well, I read Cleopatra and 

1088
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:24,040
Mark Antony in college, so we 
just like skipped over all of 

1089
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:29,120
this, I think in my school 
district, but I'm not sure. 

1090
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:30,520
Maybe we did. 
Interesting. 

1091
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:34,960
Did you read no Shakespeare in 
high school or just like Roman 

1092
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,280
and Juliet? 
Oh, no, We read Shakespeare in 

1093
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:42,000
high school, but we read, yeah, 
Romeo and Juliet, Hamlet and 

1094
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,680
Macbeth. 
Interesting, for some reason in 

1095
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:48,040
my high school we only did 
Robbie and Juliet and Julius 

1096
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,920
Caesar oddly. 
We also did 12th night in my 

1097
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:53,240
grade. 
We never had. 

1098
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,320
To do 12th, we also did A 
Midsummer Night's Dream. 

1099
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,440
Anyway, yeah, so he just got 
stabbed. 23 times and this is 

1100
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,160
the famous line where he's like 
E2 brute, right? 

1101
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,960
Yeah, so his last words were 
like E2 brute or translated to 

1102
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,600
even you, my boy, or even you, 
Brutus, to a politician named 

1103
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,400
Marcus Brutus, who had been who 
had once been Caesar's close 

1104
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,440
friend. 
Damn, yeah. 

1105
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,480
That sucks. 
He's dead. 

1106
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,760
It was over like. 
They just didn't like that he 

1107
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,120
was the dictator. 
Like what? 

1108
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,600
Yeah, so they didn't like that 
he was dictator, and some people

1109
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,400
also believe that. 
They didn't like that he was a 

1110
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:39,160
bigamist with Cleopatra also. 
But for some reason they were 

1111
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,200
like, yeah, let's just stab him.
And they did. 

1112
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,400
What? 
OK this might be ignorant of me,

1113
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:49,320
but why did they care? 
Like I it just doesn't seem to 

1114
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,480
me like they had that strict 
morals back then. 

1115
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,160
Like I'm surprised that they 
actually were very against that.

1116
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:00,960
Or is that just ignorant of me? 
I think they had some codes of 

1117
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,040
conduct. 
Well, I guess this is Rome, I 

1118
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,480
guess. 
Yeah, I guess this is Rome, not 

1119
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:08,680
Egypt, where they were doing the
sibling. 

1120
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:11,800
Yeah. 
But they didn't like that he was

1121
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,840
like dictator. 
And he there's also other stuff 

1122
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:20,320
where he really kind of had a 
power trip and they didn't like 

1123
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,480
that as well. 
So they're like, we have to get 

1124
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:24,200
rid of him. 
OK, Yeah. 

1125
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:28,480
Do you think he was in the wrong
or do you think they should have

1126
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,200
done that? 
Like people say like, oh, he was

1127
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,160
like a real dictator, but like 
everybody else was like a real 

1128
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:39,000
dictator. 
So I think no matter who was in 

1129
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,280
that position, they would 
probably act the same. 

1130
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,440
So I really don't think they 
were in the right. 

1131
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,880
And even. 
And even the people of Rome were

1132
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,080
upset that Caesar had been 
killed. 

1133
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:53,480
And they were calling for the 
assassins to be, you know, 

1134
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:55,920
killed. 
And so the assassins had to 

1135
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:57,920
leave. 
And it was just this whole 

1136
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,200
thing. 
So a lot of people looked down 

1137
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,640
on Caesar's assassination. 
That's good. 

1138
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:04,760
Yeah. 
I guess. 

1139
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:07,040
Yeah. 
And anyway, so I think most 

1140
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,360
people know the story of Julius 
Caesar for the most part. 

1141
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:14,000
I mean, again, it's not like 
fully common knowledge, but what

1142
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,080
people might not have known was 
that Cleopatra was in Rome at 

1143
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,080
the time of Caesar's 
assassination. 

1144
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:22,640
She was there with him. 
And yeah. 

1145
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:26,640
And so afterward, after he'd 
been killed, she actually stuck 

1146
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:28,640
around between a month to a 
couple months. 

1147
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,560
Historians don't really know for
certain to try and get their son

1148
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,240
Caesarean named as Caesar's 
heir. 

1149
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,720
But it's pretty much a futile 
fight 'cause even though 

1150
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:40,400
Cleopatra had some support and 
one of them was Mark Antony 

1151
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:43,440
actually, which I'll get into 
when I cover her and Mark 

1152
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:47,520
Antony, most people supported 18
year old Augustus, Caesar's 

1153
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,640
grand nephew as his heir, as was
stipulated in his will. 

1154
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,640
So, you know, so it wasn't going
to go to Caesarean. 

1155
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:56,680
Yeah, and he adopted Augustus, 
right? 

1156
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:01,160
Yeah, he had adopted Augustus 
and had even named him as his 

1157
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,440
heir, so you can't really fight 
what he had written in his will.

1158
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,440
And he didn't have, he had a 
daughter, but she died, so he 

1159
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:08,160
didn't have any. 
Yeah. 

1160
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,560
So he had a daughter, but she's 
been dead for like years at this

1161
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:13,640
point. 
Like almost a decade, if not 

1162
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,720
more. 
So did he not have any kids with

1163
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:19,880
Calpurnia? 
No, he had no other children 

1164
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,240
with like California or his 
other wife. 

1165
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,560
Also, he might have had a couple
other illegitimate kids with all

1166
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:28,640
the other women he was sleeping 
with like before, but nobody 

1167
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:29,640
knows. 
Wow. 

1168
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,600
Yeah. 
And side note, also stipulated 

1169
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:35,240
in his will was that every Roman
citizen received a substantial 

1170
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:39,120
stipend and that his gardens 
were given back to the city of 

1171
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:40,840
Rome. 
And I thought that was nice, so 

1172
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:43,560
I included that. 
That is really nice, yeah. 

1173
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,520
Every citizen got some money 
from Yeah. 

1174
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:50,520
Wow, I know. 
And I think that also endeared 

1175
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:53,480
the Roman citizens to Caesar, 
and so that's why they also 

1176
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,120
looked down upon his 
assassination. 

1177
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:59,080
My gosh, that's amazing. 
I know. 

1178
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:03,120
And so because Cleopatra wasn't 
able to name their son as Air, 

1179
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,200
she was forced to flee back to 
Egypt with her two year old son 

1180
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:09,040
in tow. 
And there's also a rumor at this

1181
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:10,800
time. 
I'm not really sure how credible

1182
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,600
because it's named in some 
sources but not in others. 

1183
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:17,080
It was believed that Cleopatra 
had apparently been pregnant 

1184
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,520
again with Caesar's child at 
this time. 

1185
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:23,520
And some Romans, namely that 
Cicero man that I named before 

1186
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,640
who really hated her, was 
nervous about it because while 

1187
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:30,120
Cesarean had no claim to being 
Caesar's heir, like absolutely 

1188
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:34,280
no claim, the second child had a
better chance because he was 

1189
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:37,480
conceived on Roman soil. 
And that kind of changed some 

1190
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:38,760
things. 
But that would be like an 

1191
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:41,640
infant. 
I know so, but still. 

1192
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,320
But unfortunately it was all for
not because the stress of his 

1193
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:49,480
assassination apparently caused 
her to miscarry, man. 

1194
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:51,200
Yeah. 
And I'm not going to go into too

1195
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,840
much detail of what happens 
afterward in this story because 

1196
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,520
I want to save it for Mark 
Antony and Cleopatra episode, 

1197
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:58,600
which again, I hope to do next 
time. 

1198
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:00,400
I'm hope. 
Sorry for stretching it out. 

1199
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,240
Don't keep me, you guys. 
But I will add that shortly 

1200
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:08,040
after returning back to Egypt, 
Ptolemy the 14th, Cleopatra's 

1201
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,520
brother husband at this time 
died of poisoning and many 

1202
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:16,280
suspect it was done by Cleopatra
or by on her behalf like by her.

1203
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:19,680
Orders. 
And after his death, she then 

1204
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:23,600
made her son Caesarean her Co 
Regent of Egypt, even though he 

1205
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:25,120
was like two or three at the 
time. 

1206
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:28,800
But she doesn't have to marry 
him, right? 

1207
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:30,880
Yeah, she's not to marry her 
son. 

1208
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:31,200
No. 
OK. 

1209
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:34,400
Good, but that's. 
I mean, now she's basically the 

1210
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:35,600
only ruler. 
Yeah. 

1211
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,920
And the other ruler is her son, 
who she can, like, raise to 

1212
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:41,080
basically treat her as the 
queen, you know? 

1213
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:46,480
And Cleopatra also started the 
construction of the Caesarean 

1214
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:50,840
Temple in Alexandria, which was 
dedicated to Caesar. 

1215
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:54,760
Wow. 
That's pretty much it for 

1216
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:58,760
Cleopatra and Caesar. 
Sad, really dramatic ending. 

1217
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:04,720
I know with an assassination. 
Probably the most dramatic we've

1218
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:06,720
heard. 
I mean we have had some end in 

1219
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:12,680
death but not being stabbed 23. 
9 So that's. 

1220
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,520
That was really interesting. 
Oh my gosh, Kate, thanks for 

1221
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,480
doing all that research. 
I had a lot of fun doing it. 

1222
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:22,400
I hope you guys enjoyed it as 
well. 

1223
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:24,960
Yeah. 
I mean, I feel like I should 

1224
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:29,040
have known this stuff before, 
but I appreciate how you told it

1225
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,440
in such a concise way. 
And to be honest, if like you 

1226
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:34,040
just like laid out all the stuff
that I would have been 

1227
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:39,680
interested in in history class. 
I know like why, why in school 

1228
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,360
back in the day? 
Why wasn't it this fun? 

1229
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:44,200
I just think they focus, get it,
they. 

1230
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:47,760
Focus way too much on like dates
and just things that you have 

1231
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:50,040
to. 
Memorize like I didn't include 

1232
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:53,560
any of like the battles or when 
those happened, anything like 

1233
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,040
that. 
So that's kind of what makes 

1234
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:59,360
I'm, I'm a history major and I 
loved history in high school and

1235
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:01,920
even college. 
But yeah, both of history was 

1236
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:04,920
just memorizing dates, and 
that's not the fun part of it, 

1237
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:08,160
you know? 
Yeah, I mean, history is all 

1238
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:11,400
just people, you know? 
Yeah, me and you guys. 

1239
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:13,640
And I feel like that's what's 
interesting is when you can 

1240
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,720
like, think of it, I think Kelly
said it on the podcast one time.

1241
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:23,040
Like we want history to be like 
a tabloid story or gossip. 

1242
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:27,680
Yeah, and this during its time 
was definitely a tabloid story. 

1243
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:32,080
Gossip 100%. 
Talking about them on the barge 

1244
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:36,400
and they're both married. 
Yeah, they had like a kid out of

1245
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:38,960
wedlock. 
So crazy. 

1246
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:43,800
Well Kate, you are going to be 
in the driver's seat again next 

1247
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:48,920
week on the Patreon. 
Can you give us a hint about who

1248
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:52,840
you are covering? 
Yes, so again, like I said, I 

1249
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,680
won't be doing Mark Antonine's 
Cleopatra next. 

1250
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,640
Sorry about that. 
But I have a extra special 

1251
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:00,840
episode that I think will be 
really fun and I think you guys 

1252
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:06,960
will enjoy. 
I am covering a pop star and a 

1253
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:12,640
relationship she had with a 
costar on ATV show they were on 

1254
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:14,560
together. 
Wow. 

1255
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:17,520
Like, that could be a couple 
people, yeah. 

1256
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:20,160
I know so. 
So different from the. 

1257
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:24,800
Very different. 
Way breaking it to modern times.

1258
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:26,720
I like that about this show 
though. 

1259
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:29,920
I hope people do too. 
I think it's interesting. 

1260
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:32,480
Like I, I feel like there are 
some podcasts with like similar 

1261
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:35,000
concepts, but usually they stick
in one lane. 

1262
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:39,080
But yeah, but like you said, 
Mel, like we're all just people.

1263
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:43,680
And it's funny, like even 2000 
years ago people were doing some

1264
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:47,960
of the same things. 
Yeah, I mean some, some things 

1265
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:49,720
very different. 
But. 

1266
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:52,400
But some things never. 
Change. 

1267
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,880
So it's like, reassuring. 
Yeah, in a weird way. 

1268
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:57,800
I know there's like, weirdly 
some similar things. 

1269
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:00,120
Like I feel like that's not the 
first time that one of you has 

1270
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:02,520
said. 
But then she was pregnant and I 

1271
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:05,280
gasped. 
I don't know who else someone 

1272
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:07,520
else might have been. 
I don't even just like a couple 

1273
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:10,840
weeks ago when you mentioned 
like Lindsey Buckingham's 

1274
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:15,400
girlfriend got pregnant like. 
Oh, maybe as old as time. 

1275
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,160
Mary Shelley, She got pregnant, 
right? 

1276
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:19,800
Oh yeah, from an. 
Affair. 

1277
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,479
Yeah. 
Gosh, I forgot about that. 

1278
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:24,120
Well, thank you guys for 
listening. 

1279
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,800
Thank you for listening. 
And thank you, Kate. 

1280
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:30,399
We're excited for next weeks 
episode. 

1281
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:32,120
Me too. 
Do you want? 

1282
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:35,600
Do you want to sign off? 
Kate, yes, see you next week. 

1283
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,319
No. 
Wait, what do we usually say? 

1284
01:08:39,319 --> 01:08:41,120
I usually use coffee whenever 
Kelly says. 

1285
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:44,800
Oh, and Oh yeah, and we'll get 
back together next week. 

1286
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:49,920
Bye. 
Is your heart filled with pain? 

1287
01:08:51,120 --> 01:09:04,560
Shall I come back again? 
Tell me, dear heart you Lord.