Are you lonesome tonight? Do you miss me tonight?
Are you sorry we didn't stand apart?
Does your man? Hi everybody, Welcome back to
Significant Lovers. We are your.
Host My name is Mel. And I'm Kel and her cousins.
Mm hmm. And we're here to talk about
love today. Yes, who are we talking about?
Yeah, I guess we should just get into it.
We are talking about John Adams and Abigail Adams, maiden name
Smith, the 2nd President of the United States.
Now why? Why them?
Well, I had heard that they had a good love story.
Mel, you actually texted me a couple months ago, I think, and
you had gone to DC and you were like, oh, I kind of want to do
some presidents. I'm in the mood or finding
fathers or whatever. And you suggested them.
And I had coincidentally just come across a book at a
bookstore that was the letters between John Adams and Abigail
Smith. And there's only $3.
So I was like, I'll just get it. You know, it seems like
something we could use for the podcast.
And then you said that. And I was like, wait, I have
this book. So here we are.
We're doing John Adams, John and Abby Adams.
It's cool because I read this book over the summer.
I was having kind of a Founding Fathers summer.
I was listening to podcasts about not just John Adams, I was
getting into it, the other early presidents.
But it's cool because when you have these older couples from,
you know, hundreds of years ago, although we might not have like
pictures of them, paparazzi pictures and stuff, we can read
first person accounts from them. You know, that they actually
wrote to each other and they wrote in their journals and
stuff. So I feel like you got to get
really close to the couple, actually.
Isn't it crazy to think about people hundreds of years from
now reading your messages? I yeah, that's the thing with
letters. How did it become public
information over time, like when someone passes away?
I guess maybe your estate is responsible for if you're a
significant person if it ends up being handed over to a museum,
but it's kind of embarrassing. It is crazy.
In this case, their son Charles actually put together, I think
it was Charles put together their letters and the.
Yeah, the family decided to put out there.
I don't think they put all of them out there, but it was a
family decision to publish the parents letters.
Yeah. So it is a really, I think a
wonderful love story. I think.
I mean, I think they have some problems like other people do,
but overall, I think that they're really inspiring.
So the three words that I would use to describe John and Abigail
Adams would be resilient, challenging, and loving.
You know, yeah, we need a loving episode.
There have been some depressing. Ones.
Yeah, some heartbreaking ones, which in a way are healing if
you're going through it, to know that other people have as well.
But it's nice to know that people have some positive love
stories out there. Yeah, yeah, we can't do all
breakup episodes. No.
And I know people might be thinking like, Oh my gosh,
Founding fathers 1700s, so problematic.
How could you do an episode about this?
I will say, even though John Adams did have some policies and
beliefs that would definitely not fly today.
I think he probably was kind of racist.
Not for his time. For his time he seemed like
super woke I guess you would say.
But today I don't think his opinions would fly.
But I will say that him and his son John Quincy Adams who goes
on to be president too, they were the only presidents out of
the 1st 12 presidents to not own slaves and he was against
slavery and his wife Abigail was a huge abolitionist.
So can feel kind of good about that.
Yeah, I guess we got to take a little drink that we have to
remember. It was a different time.
It was a. Different time.
Yep, Yep, that's on our drinking.
That will definitely come up later.
Some things like that, it's kind of sad because I feel like he's
a little bit overlooked or forgotten as early president.
And I don't have time to get into everything that went on in
his time as president as we don't because this is about
their relationship, not, you know, his career.
But I think he was overall like pretty good person.
So anyway, who was John Adams? So he was a lawyer, writer,
diplomat, George Washington's vice president and eventually
the 2nd president of the United States after George Washington.
Myers Briggs. I'm into that.
People think he was an INTJ maybe, and I can see it.
He was described by Ben Franklin as he means well for his country
and is always an honest man, often a wise one, but sometimes
and in some things absolutely out of his senses.
And the historian George C Herring said that John Adams was
the most independent minded of the founders.
And even though so he was in the Federalist Party back then, but
he was somewhat a party unto himself at times disagreeing
with the Federalists as much as he did the Democratic
Republicans, which was the other party.
And I think he, you know, I think he had a lot of
convictions and beliefs, but he struggled with politics.
It seems like he wanted to do the right thing, but that could
be hard. And I think that he could be
kind of persnickety, a little bit easily aggravated.
And he often, at least in his private writing, seemed to think
other people were dumb. I don't know if he acted that
way outwardly in real life, but he did seem to think like
everyone around him was kind of stupid.
But I also read that he wasn't that way with his family, that
he was very lovey dovey and sweet with his wife and kids.
So it's like he was this grump. But he did have like a sweet
side to him. So that's a bit about his
personality. You might know John Adams
cousin. Speaking of cousins, Mel and I
cousins. His cousin was Samuel Adams,
who's another founding father. Of the beer.
Yes, he was a Massachusetts politician.
He signed the Declaration of Independence also.
And he also worked as a Brewer, which is why there's a beer
named after him, Sam Adams. That was just 'cause that was my
dad's beer of choice for many years.
Oh. Yes, yes, I feel like that's
Charlie's beer of choice. It's New England.
Yep, which? Is where we are from.
Yes, we are from Massachusetts and that's where a lot of this
story takes place. So John Adams was born October
30th, 1735 in Braintree, MA, which is now part of Quincy,
Mass and it's very close to Boston for a reference.
People that don't know. So he's a Scorpio.
His father was a Shoemaker, farmer and Deacon at church,
busy guy and Braintree selectman.
So politics, you know, was in his family and his mother
managed the household but she was apparently very strong
minded, which is maybe why he was into Abigail.
Dot, dot, dot, We often find that, I guess that's kind of
Freudian, that especially with politics, we've seen that.
We saw that with our JFK and Carolyn episode that Carolyn
reminded him of Jackie. Yep, I I do think there's
something to that. It's a little disturbing
sometimes, but to think about for yourself.
But I think there's truth to it. John Adams.
I don't know if I should call him John or Adams.
It's one of those tricky things. With the podcast I tend to do
first name. I know, I feel.
Like we become familiar with them.
Yeah, yeah. I'll just say John, his parents
were Puritans, so they were pretty pious, strict Unitarian
Christian. And he, he definitely was pretty
religious himself. I'd say as he got older, later
in life, he embraced more enlightenment ideas.
But I would say he was always pretty Christian.
And I was kind of surprised, like I was, you know, listening
to my president's podcast this summer, I always thought that
the early presidents, like the founding fathers, were all super
religious, but it seems like they actually weren't as much as
you would think. Excuse me, I'm recording that
Char. Yeah, you just open the door,
Char. Sometimes that's like when
someone walks in on you in the bathroom.
I was. Like in the zone?
Oh. You did anyway.
Accident. It was accident.
It was excellent. Anyway, I'm just all to say John
Adams and Abigail are pretty religious.
His father wanted him to become a minister and he attended
Harvard. He loved books and was very
studious, but he also felt like he wanted more greatness and
realized he did not want to become a minister.
He wanted to be important. And he after graduating, he
taught in Worcester for a bit, which is it's so weird, like
just growing up in Massachusetts to hear that, like, it sounds
like something someone from high school would do.
Like just almost there. I must have taken a while for
them to get there before course. It's, it's so crazy to read
about them, like, zipping all around the country because not
the country, but it must have taken a while.
Yeah. But he found Worcester to be too
much of A backwater for the scene he was looking for.
And he returned to Braintree, then Boston, to practice law.
And he was admitted to the Boston bar in 1758.
So he wanted distinction. He wanted to be important.
He wanted to become a big shot lawyer.
Before Abigail, he fell in love with a woman named Hannah
Quincy, the daughter of Colonel Josiah Quincy.
Wait. OK, keep going.
Braintree, so-called leading citizen, and it's interesting
'cause she's actually Abigail's second cousin.
Wait, so is this his baby Mama? No.
Oh, why do you name his son John Quincy Adam Adams I?
Know I was, I was thinking that, well, guess what 'cause I said
that's her second cousin. Her mother is Elizabeth Quincy,
so it's her family name, too. OK.
I know I had the same thought. Wait, was that her last?
No, her last name. Smith.
Yeah, so her dad's last name was Smith.
Her mom's last name was Quincy. So then they gave they gave John
Quincy. I know, but it is weird because
he was in love with Hannah Quincy.
Yeah, OK, that would suck too. Like your family I guess.
Maybe second cousins 2nd. Take a drink every time you
debate how close cousins are. I know, second cousin.
Second cousins might not run into each other as often as the
first cousin would. Maybe not, but I do get the
sense that there weren't as many people in Massachusetts back
then. That's true.
You have to double different. I think that's actually a fact.
I was actually, I was talking about this the other day with my
friends and it was at the wedding.
We were drunk and I was, we were talking about the cousin thing.
I was talking about our discussion on the podcast
recently about like, would you date your 10th cousin?
Would you date your? Of course, but would you date
your third cousin? And I was saying nobody really
knows their third cousin. And my friend Bridget was like,
yes, they do. I'm friends with my third
cousin. And I was like, no way, no way,
no way. I bet you don't.
I was like, that is not your third cousin.
And then she was telling me the how the relation and I guess it
was her third cousin. Really.
I don't. I certainly know.
I believe it. You.
Know I was like Bridget that would be your what your great
great grandparent is the shared. Relation there.
Yeah. I guess I'd have to see the
family tree to be like, in what way?
These second cousins, your parents are cousins.
So like me and you, we have kids.
Someday our cousins will be second cousins.
Naturally, It makes sense that they would have a friendship.
Well, I guess. OK, so let's say.
Well, we're we're close cousins, but a lot of people aren't that
close to their cousins. Yes, but OK, so let's say our OK
this makes it realistic. Our two kids that we have their
best friends. They grow up being good friends
because me and you are really good friends.
If they have kids, their kids will know each other and thus
their kids will be friends with their third cousin.
That's true. So.
Because if you stay really close, yeah.
To my cousin, yeah. And so I think our kids, kids,
our grandkids will probably know each other.
Hopefully, if we are so lucky, yeah, true in this life to
foster that friendship and our kids and they.
Hopefully. Won't date each other.
Hopefully, but we might not be able to stop it.
Yeah. But anyway, back to the cousin,
Hannah Quincy. Apparently she acted a bit wishy
washy when he hinted that marriage and he hesitated and
then she ended up becoming engaged to someone else.
It was one of those things where it's like they couldn't really
tell how serious it was. I don't.
I don't really know what happened.
And then she started getting someone else and got engaged.
He was very depressed about this, though, and he threw
himself into his work. And he made a vow.
He wrote this in his journal To let love and vanity be
extinguished, to focus more on ambition and patriotism.
I'll see, but love always finds you when you're not looking.
In 1759, he met Abigail Adams for the first time, but he
didn't think much of her. She was only 15 when they met.
OK. And I think he was like 20 or
something. But they he was there because
his friend was engaged to Abigail's sister.
So he just was at the house and just met her.
But there was not a connection. And that's good because she was
only 15. And I know it was like kind of
normal for back then, but it's kind of a relief.
That's not when their story started.
But who's Abigail? Who is this Abigail?
She was born Abigail Smith November 22nd, 1744 in Weymouth,
MA. So she's a Sagittarius.
As for Myers Briggs, people think she might be ISFJ but you
know it's hard to tell of historical people.
So she's nine years younger than John Adams.
Her father was Reverend William Smith of Weymouth, and I know we
today wouldn't think that a reverend would be that big of a
deal, but he was basically the most well known guy in town.
He was like the leading citizen. And her mother, Elizabeth
Quincy, we mentioned earlier, Abigail was descended from some
of the leading Puritan ministers of early New England.
And just looking at portraits of her when she was young, I think
she looks pretty. I think she had brown eyes, kind
of like a sharp look to her her. I was trying to think like, who
would play her in a movie or something?
There was a miniseries actually about John Adams on HBO years
ago. But I think she's kind of
pretty. John Adams.
I don't know what he looked like when he was young.
When he was older, he was a little bit a little hefty, a
little balding, but I I don't know what he looked like when he
was younger. Yeah, I'm looking at pictures
now. She was really pretty.
Yeah, she's got these Cute. Curls.
Maybe Sandra Bullock, a young Sandra Bullock, could play her.
She was, I wrote in my notes, basically Bella from Beating the
Beast, because she was educated at home but very widely read,
very smart. She loved learning.
She knew many languages. She knew about politics, about
ancient Rome and Greece. But like the time she was living
in and where she was living, female education was not taken
very seriously, even ridiculed in Massachusetts.
Women, I mean, it was very common for women and everybody
to learn how to read. Literacy was pretty high because
the Puritans thought it was important that people could read
the Bible, but they wouldn't be expected to know much more than
that. So she really, I've picture her
like Belle from being and be. She was just like very smart
girl that kind of annoyed some people.
But a few years after first meeting, John somehow met
Abigail again, I'm not sure how, and started courting her.
As they said back then, by 1762, he was writing very loving,
sweet letters to her and she returned the affection and they
would go on long walks and have deep intellectual conversations.
And they were married in fall 1764.
So she was around 20 and he was 29.
So it's pretty, pretty good for back then.
Because, you know, we did the Marie and Marie Internet and
Louis episode, which is also in the 1700s.
And I got married when they were like 14.
So, like, nice. She's 20.
Apparently there were comments in the neighbourhood about him
marrying up, that she was like a higher status than him and he
was seen as like a farm boy, even though he was like learning
to become a lawyer and such. People thought he was beneath
her. He was beginning to get very
political. He was writing satires of
Massachusetts politicians in anonymous essays in the paper.
And now there's still a colony, still part of England at this
point, obviously. But he would write these papers
under the pseudonym Humphrey Plow Jogger, so disguising
himself. And I guess he would write it in
like an amusing way, sort of like this political character he
came up with. It was supposed to be kind of
funny, but he would like, criticize politics at the same
time. And then he started publishing
things under his own name. And one thing that he wrote, a
dissertation on the Canon and feudal law, attracted a lot of
notice and marked him as an intellectual leader.
And I would say today it's kind of the equivalent of, like,
writing a big piece in The New Yorker or something.
And then everyone's like, oh, my gosh, who wrote that?
But yeah, so they're married now.
Nine months after marrying, she gave birth to their first child,
So. Didn't wait the same time.
Yep. A daughter named Abigail that
they called Nabby. Abigail and John go on to have
six kids together. Abigail, John, Quincy, Susanna
who is nicknamed Suki, Charles Thomas and Elizabeth who sadly
was a stillborn. But they do have six kids
together in all. And I'd say overall, John and
Abigail were spiritually and intellectually very much equals.
And it seems like he went to her as, like, his confidant and
spoke to her about all, you know, all the ideas he had about
politics and such. Like, she was there with him
talking about it the whole time. So it's pretty cool.
You know, he's kind of rising. He's a lawyer now.
He's writing all these papers. He's getting notice in
Massachusetts. And in June 1774, he was chosen,
along with his cousin Sam Adams, to be the Massachusetts
delegation to the First Continental Congress.
So basically it was guys gathering together in
Philadelphia to figure out how they're going to break off from
Britain and form a new country. It was a big deal because it's
basically treason, you know, to like break off from England.
He had to be very secretive about it was very high stakes.
So he's invited to this. He doesn't leave immediately,
but this is going to mean that he's going to have to go to
Philadelphia, which is pretty far away.
And he can't bring the family with him.
He. Can't bring the family with him,
I'm not sure why. Dude, is he allowed to tell the
family that this is what he's doing?
Yeah, I think they know what this is, what he's doing.
But this is the start of many years, very long stretches of
time when he is away from his family, who is back in
Massachusetts. He will be in Philadelphia and
then in Europe as an envoy in France and then later the
Netherlands and in total. Coming up, they will be apart
for 11 years. Oh my gosh.
I know he will go home, he will go home.
I know he will go home sometimes to visit and then leave again
and then come back and then leave.
But like if you add up all the time he's away, it will be 11
years long distance and he. Probably didn't come home.
Maybe he stayed for larger chunks of time.
But back then, if you're traveling, you have to get on a
boat. You got to like get on then on
horse and buggy it's not that easy to just be no.
No, no, he would come home for months but then leave again for
like years. Oh, God bless Abigail.
That's tough, I know. So this is obviously a really
extreme situation, but it inspired me to ask our listeners
on Patreon because we have polls over there about long distance
and I asked what are your thoughts and experiences with
long distance relationships? And OK, so there are four
options. You could say I've done long
distance and would do it again if necessary.
I haven't done long distance, but I would if necessary.
I have done long distance, it would never again or I never
have and never would do long distance.
So the top answer 39% was I've done long distance and would do
it again and if necessary. Second one was with most
responses was I haven't done it but I would if I had to.
The third most results was I have done it and whenever again.
And then seven 7% of people said I never have and never would too
long. Wow.
So 39 + 29, yeah. So like about 70% said that they
would do it either again or for the first time.
Wow that's crazy that this is a really open minded bunch of
people are patrons like the the smallest percentage of people
are the people who said I've never done it and never will.
Like at least the people, a lot of the people who say they won't
do it have had bad experiences so they're basing it off of.
That yeah, 25% did say I have and would never again.
And it's I'm going to read some responses from people like
comments, but it's interesting to think about.
Like I I do think that the line would never again or like you
wouldn't. I want, you know, you could take
that either way. Like let's say your partner gets
a job in a faraway land or something.
So it's saying you wouldn't. Does that mean you telling them
like, no, we're not and just like hoping they won't do the
thing that would make you them be long distance or maybe you
making a decision that would make your relationship stay
close together, you know, or does that mean breaking up?
You know what I mean? Like there's a couple ways.
I mean, sometimes if someone really wants to go far away,
there could be no other option if you can't come to an
agreement. Yeah, I mean, we've had couples
that have definitely broken up on this podcast about.
So. Much not agreeing on where to
live, which is huge. I think that's one thing.
See the thing about long distance for me is like I would
have to have an end date insight.
Like I could do it maybe for two years if I knew that there was
some important reason why we had to be long distance.
But I would honestly be more inclined to move and be long
distance in my current relationship because we I see my
boyfriend all the time. It's same with you.
You live with your boyfriend and our relationship has just been
founded on that. So like when we're not together,
we don't really communicate that often because I know I'm going
to see him soon. And sometimes it is hard when we
don't like if we're both home for the holidays or for whatever
reason, we're not that commutative because we're not
used to that. So I don't know if I would ever
really want to be long distance. Yeah, it totally.
It totally depends. Some people, as I'm going to
read in the comments, like some people are really good at it,
some people not into that. It's, you know, everyone is
different. I, I have done a long distance
relationship. I mean, for a while it wasn't
that far. It was like Boston to Maine.
So not that far. But you know, when I started
abroad, it was only a couple of months, but it was hard,
especially being different time zones.
I do think having an end date helps and I kind of weird to get
real about a past relationship, but I think we didn't know when
it was going to end or like we didn't and we were young too.
I, I think it depends where you are in your life too.
Like it can be kind of scary to make a move or something for a
relationship when you don't really know if this is the one
or you know what I mean? In John and Abigail's case, I
mean, they are married and they're also both very
religious, so they're not going to like get divorced over this,
I don't think. And it's the 1700s, so it it was
a different time, I think. But I.
Wonder how much of A choice he gave her like I feel like in
relationships you do have to make these decisions together.
I'm sure she probably would have rather him stayed home like but
I wonder if he even asked for her opinion.
I know and that's something we don't really know today but
anyway I'm going to read a couple of comments.
Peyton said I've ended up doing a lot long distance.
I hope this is OK at reading it. I've ended up doing long
distance with every BF I've had lol.
Me and my partner now been together for three years and
long distance for one. It sucks and it's annoying but
with the right person I think you can really make it work as
long as you're both willing to put in the effort and there's an
eventual plan to be in the same place.
Yes, I think that's key, the plan to be in the same place
eventually. Amy said.
I worked on a cruise ship on cruise ships for 10 years and
was separated by ships from boyfriends.
In my experience, absence does not make the heart grow fonder.
Absence is a recipe for someone straying and it's difficult to
maintain slash grow relationship and connection when you don't
have common experiences for long periods. 0 out of 10 would not
recommend. Oh.
No, I hope there's no one listening who's like newly in a
long distance relationship and they're like.
No, no. Well, John and Abigail will be
inspiration for you and it was way, way, way, way harder back
then than now. So I I hope you are inspired by
their strength. Victoria said.
I did long distance with my ex for three years and I moved
after I finished college. We broke up within six months
after that. Allison said.
My high school to college relationship on and off for
seven years was long distance. It was young, first love.
I think it's doable in my relationship now where there is
so much more trust and equity. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I would say in my current relationship, if we had
to for some reason, I would. But hopefully that doesn't.
I mean, I work remotely. I don't know why that would
happen. I have.
No idea what circumstance would. You guys are both in the same
area too, I know. One.
Yeah. What could it possibly be?
This is a. Good thought experiment.
I truly do not know, Mel. I cannot think of a reason that
would happen. I don't know, but that's kind of
nice, I think. I think, you know, when I was
younger, things were so much more like turbulent and I often
found myself dating people that didn't live that close to.
Yeah, I don't. Know anyway, anyway, let's get
into it. Their actual relationship year
to year. So we're going to read their
letters together back and forth. And I just got to say I tried
Googling this. I searched everywhere for this
and I feel like I'm the first person to ever ask this question
on the Internet. I could be wrong but I have not
seen anybody write this or anything.
But throughout all the letters between John and Abigail Adams,
they are very sweet to each other, very loving.
They say like my dearest yours yours, yours forever yours.
They say things like that, but they never write the words I
love you. Isn't that weird?
Why is that? I was.
Wondering did you find out? No, I mean, I Even so I had the
book, you know, but then I found a digital version and I searched
it. I searched the words I love you.
I even just searched love you. It didn't come up.
I was wondering, could it be because a few times that they
did write it, those letters just so happened to be destroyed or
not saved possibly? Or did people just not write
that back then? I don't know.
Yeah, but don't. You think that's weird?
I feel like I would sign it with every single letter, any card,
any card like birthday card or anything that I give anyone very
dear to me. I always write I love you in it
me. Too.
I just thought that was very odd.
Maybe they were, you know, playing it cool.
Maybe I will get to this, but John was very paranoid that
people would read his let their letters when especially when he
was in Europe later, because he was like a public figure of this
revolution and such. But I still don't know why that.
I mean, they still write a lot of things in their letters, so I
don't know why they wouldn't write I love you.
I don't know. Yeah, maybe they that wasn't in
fashion or something, I don't know.
But yeah, I have not found anybody else on the Internet
talking about that, which is weird.
In the letters she often signed them Porsche, which was the wife
of the Roman Republican patriot Lucius Brutus.
Lucius Julius Brutus. They're both very inspired by
ancient Rome. And John would call her Porsche
back. I think he would call himself
some nicknames too sometimes. But she seemed very committed to
the Porsche nickname. That's so cultured of her I
know. One of John's letters did fall
into British hands and was published in the newspaper.
So he does censor himself a lot because he's in fear that that
will happen again. So maybe, as I said, that's
maybe why he didn't write I love you, but I I still don't get it.
Well. What's embarrassing about that?
I know. Right.
I know. Maybe so he.
Didn't say it a lot that. I know.
Maybe they didn't. I don't know.
He often doesn't reveal people's names and isn't specific about
what's going on, doesn't share like, confidential information
about the war in Congress, But he does talk about it a little
bit. He writes that he's he often
writes that he's annoyed with the men around him and
complaints and expresses envy and annoyance, especially
towards Ben Franklin and the attention he gets.
He really did not like Benjamin Franklin, which is funny because
I don't know, I feel like usually you hear about people
loving him. So the lawyers I'm I'm starting
in June 1774, so he hasn't left for Philadelphia yet, but he is
in York, ME, which is pretty close to where I live now.
And in the letter, he complaints that all the young lawyers are
making a lot of money still in British pounds, but he's still
poor. And he admits that he spent a
lot. But he mentions that people are
richer in the country and suggests they move somewhere
cheaper. And I just couldn't believe that
because it's like still so relatable more than 200 years
later, like, oh, it's so much cheaper out here, maybe we
should move. I just can't believe that.
In another letter really soon after, he debates if he should
just give up law and instead just be a farmer at home and
teach his kids. So he does that a lot.
Like he even though he wants to be this great man he sometimes
is, Like, maybe I should just be a farmer.
You know? This is too much.
Yeah. Around this time, 1774, it seems
like she's either busier than him or he didn't have her
letters or maybe they weren't saved or something because he's
writing every single day and she's not.
And he's working on a case in Maine, and she's presumably busy
running the house with the kids in the garden.
And he doesn't mention anything that she's written, so it seems
like he's just writing to her with no response.
I feel like that's so much worse than double texting.
I know double sending a letter. I know he writes a lot about
things that bother him with work and the newspapers and politics,
things like that. And you can tell because he
writes all these philosophical things.
I just think he really did think of her as his intellectual
equal. And I could be wrong, but I feel
like it wasn't that common back then.
So it's it's nice to see. I feel like even today,
sometimes men are like, oh, you wouldn't get it or something.
So it's just cool to see him going on and on for pages,
honestly, to her. So I don't know.
OK. But then July 1774, he goes to
Philadelphia to be part of the Continental Congress, the
rebellion against the crown, and he writes to her.
The letters I have written or may write, my dear, must be kept
secret or at least shown with great caution. dot, dot, dot
kiss, my dear babes, for me you're John Adams.
And then he has APS and he says he forgot to tell a story about
asking someone for tea. And she said, no, we aren't
serving tea anymore, only coffee, I think because of the
taxation things going on with Britain.
And he declares that tea must be universally renounced and that
he's had coffee every day since. No, I know.
It's really interesting, you know, how England loves their
tea. And I mean, people still drink
tea in America, but overall, people drink coffee more often,
I'd say. And I think it's because of
that. Yeah, it became like out of
fashion, as you said earlier, it was like.
Patriotic to drink coffee instead of tea.
Wait, that's so true. That's so interesting.
I do love tea, Daisy. I'm a tea I.
Know you are tea. I'm definitely coffee.
I mean I have tea sometimes, but I love my coffee.
I'm a lawyer going to be a lot about drinks in this podcast.
August, 1774 We still don't have.
She has written letters, but I just haven't found them like
worthy enough to read yet. But there will be Abigail
letters. August 1774 John ends his letter
to her. I have kept a few minutes by way
of a journal, which shall be your entertainment when I come
home. But we have had so many persons
and so various characters to converse with, and so many
objects to view, that I have not been able to be so particular as
I wish I could. I am with the tenderest
affections and concerns. You're wandering.
John Adams, sweet. I wouldn't like to hear you're
wandering, I know. I think he just means like I'm
away from. Home, I know like I'm a.
Wandering soul, I don't know. Not all who wander are lost in
her next letters. I just thought she was very
sweet. She signed it.
Your most affectionate friend. Your most affectionate Abigail
Adams. And then she often starts them.
My dearest friend. Yeah, see, I think there's
something so romantic about in a relationship, referring to your
romantic partner as your friend. Like, that's when it's like a
true level of intimacy. Yeah, it is really sweet.
They always call each other my dearest friend.
That's cute. I know.
PR relationship. PR No, all these are private
letters. No, you're kidding me.
No, I mean, maybe like they really were friends, but they're
jealous friends, yeah. Where did the six kids?
Come from That's why they don't say I love you.
Oh. Maybe.
No, I'm sure he used to believe that with.
All that time, I guess he did come back.
I was going to say with all that time in a way that they could
make 6 kids but. I guess I mean the kids.
Probably didn't know him that well.
I know. Did he write letters to the kids
too? He did.
I think he mostly wrote them to John Quincy, the oldest son, but
I think he didn't write to the others as much as he should
have, probably unfortunately. September 1774, British soldiers
removed gunpowder and other military supplies from a
magazine near Boston. This was known as the powder
alarm. It caused reaction and
widespread alarm, and there were rumors spread that blood had
been shed and American patriots feared war was imminent.
Thousands of militiamen marched toward Boston and Cambridge, and
mobs forced loyalists and some government officials to seek
protection from the British Army.
It's basically like riots are starting.
People are freaking out. And though the alarm proved to
be false, it was kind of like a dress rehearsal for what was
going to occur soon. And John was curious about what
was happening in Boston and later fearful because they're
very close to Boston. I mean, they're basically in the
Boston area. That's like where Quincy is.
In a letter, Abigail wrote that she wished most sincerely that
there's not a slave in the province.
I just want to mention that because I do think she was a
great woman and they needed people like that back then.
You know, John writes about the Congress and says that 50
gentlemen meeting together, all strangers, are not acquainted
with each other's languages, ideas, views, designs.
They are therefore jealous of each other, fearful, timid,
skittish. It's just funny to think of the
founding fathers like that. And he wrote that he's weary to
death with Congress, and he thinks everyone, everybody
thinks very highly of themselves, and it's impossible
to move forward with any decisions.
He seems to be writing more often, but he writes that he
wishes he could write a dozen letters every day, which is
sweet. Yeah, I mean, that was a lot of
work to have to write a letter I.
Mean, yeah, when you think about it, I mean, at least I.
You said this kind of earlier, but when you're long distance
now, you communicate throughout the day so you can like, you
know, a little thing that happens.
Oh, you can send pictures. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Like FaceTime, people don't
drink tea anymore. You just send that quick text
off the moment it happens. But back then, any little thing
throughout your day, you have to save it and remember it and in
order to put it in your letter. Yeah, April 1775.
I know it would be. I feel bad for Abigail.
I feel bad for him too. But like, he's definitely really
busy. I heard that the Congress, it
was basically all day and night. Like they would start at I think
10:00 AM and be meeting until it wasn't that long actually, like
four or five or so. But then they would have dinners
every night. It was like a lot of socializing
too. So it was just like all day,
every day he was with people. But then she's just at home.
I mean, she has the kids and she has like, her nearby family, but
it's got to be lonely. April 1775, the first shots of
the war, the Revolutionary War, happened at Lexington and
Concord. It's funny, some of the podcasts
I listen to, people called it Concord.
No, John is obviously not there for the start of the war.
And it's emotionally happening in Massachusetts.
And so he's writing letters being like, what's happening,
what's going on? Tell me everything.
June 1775, he mentioned that Colonel Washington appeared at
Congress in his uniform and was advising them on military
matters. And then in July, he wrote to
Abigail. It gives me more pleasure than I
can express to learn that you sustain with so much fortitude
the shocks and terrors of the time.
You are really brave, my dear. You are a heroine and you have
no reason to be. And then he ends the letter.
I am forever yours. Oh, that's so sweet.
I know so George Washington at this point he's just a general
in the war, but you know he will be the president.
He stopped by the Adam's house and Abigail hosted him.
So John wasn't there, but she wrote to John.
I was struck with General Washington.
You had prepared me to entertain a favourable, favourable opinion
of him, but I thought the half was not told to me.
Dignity with ease and complacency, the gentleman and
the soldier. Modesty marks every line and
feature of his face. Wow, I was like oh is she into?
Him kind of sounds like I know I was struck by him.
I know modesty marks every line and feature of his face.
Yeah, again, we have. I guess we have to remember
that's a different time. Who describes someone like that
now? I know I.
Don't know, I guess she was writing to her husband too so
she had to not be too complimentary, but it seems like
she liked him. Abigail makes a complaint to
John that all his letters seem to be written so quickly that
they don't leave any room for a social feeling.
That's so funny. She wrote.
They let me know you exist, but some of them contain scarcely 6
lines. I want some sentimental
effusions of the heart. Oh my God, that's.
So I feel like that happens now, too.
It's like, put some emojis in there.
I know that's not emotional enough.
Yeah, some things never change. She writes lots, of lots about
what's going on, the war on with the war to him.
And I wrote just like in a sticky note on a letter around
this time, I just wrote, he really loves her, trusts her,
values her opinion, confides in her.
She's his person. So I just had that thought.
He does return home finally, July 1775, but briefly because
he returns in August to Philadelphia and she writes to
him. The return of the my dear
partner after four months absence is a pleasure I cannot
express. And then things take a turn for
the worse for the Addams family. September 1775.
Everyone around her in Boston, Braintree is sick and dying of
dysentery and living in a lot of fear of the war.
In October, her mother dies and she's distraught and she signs
the letter Your distressed Porsche.
And then John's brother and their servant Patty died too.
And Abigail was actually so distraught about Patty that I
thought that she was her daughter.
I actually wrote in my notes like their daughter Patty died.
And then I realized later, like, wait a SEC, they don't have a
daughter named Patty, but it was their servant, I guess.
Yeah, but I'm sure like, she must have been like, almost like
a member of the family. Yeah.
Which I thought was kind of touching.
I mean, it's really tragic that she died.
Well, all of them died, but I thought that was touching, that
she cared that much about her. And I was writing about how lost
and how heavy her heart is, and she's just breaking down with
all the sickness and death. But then she concludes letters.
Still, I have many blessings left, many comforts, thankful
for and rejoicing. So she's staying strong.
In October, John writes to her that he's very afraid for her
safety and that the British officials could read their
letters. And he writes they may peep.
I just thought that was funny. Let me peep.
In another letter he wrote, If I ever come here meaning
Philadelphia again, I must bring you with me.
I could live here pleasantly if I had you with me.
And then he says, what if we should let me please myself with
the thought? I feel like I so relate.
I'm always like, what if we lived here?
I wonder how long it took for the letters to get to each
other. I should.
Have figured that out. I'm not sure.
No, I. Guess we don't know.
I mean, even if we that's true. I only have the date.
Yeah. When the date was written on it.
I think it could be weeks or a month maybe.
Or I don't know, maybe less. I can't really tell.
I thought it was sweet. He signed the letter.
Yours. Yours.
So crazy that we're reading this
hundreds of years later. It's weird.
Like, I was thinking about this. Think about this man.
Like actually sitting down at his desk.
It's like wood. Like a real person with a pen
and paper, I'm writing this. Yeah, and he's not thinking
anything of it. It's just a letter to his wife.
And then years later there's 2 girls in their rooms with
microphones. They don't even know what those
are. I know recording a podcast
talking about it, I would be telling.
Him what that is? I wonder if he'd be like a
little red in the face over that.
Probably. Sorry, John.
Later, in October 1775, she wrote.
My pen is always freer than my tongue.
I have written many things to you that I suppose I never could
have talked. Do you find interesting?
And she's still very sad about Patty, which is sweet.
And then John wrote back. If I could write as well as you,
my sorrow would be as eloquent as yours.
But upon my word I cannot. So I can't express his grief, I
guess. November 4th, 1775.
He writes about Missus Hancock. So I'd be John Hancock's wife.
And how in a crowd she's totally silent as a lady ought to be,
John. But whether her eyes are so
penetrating and her attention so quick to the words, looks,
gestures, sentiments of the company as yours would be saucy
as you are this way, I won't say so.
He's calling her saucy. Interesting, that's coming
across like a little flirty way I.
Know, missus, I think it is. I think it is.
No, I think he's saying Abigail's flirty.
He's saying she's silent. But whether her eyes and her
looks or whatever are as saucy as yours, I won't say so.
But. Oh, but I won't say like.
He's kind of hinting that like, Missus Hancock is saucy, but
he's also calling Abigail saucy, which is kind of funny.
But yeah, mine he's losing some points for saying a lady ought
to be silent. Yeah, it was a different.
Time. Different time.
I know, I know. Abigail has been asking him to
write to her father and sister and he basically says I wish I
could but I'm way too busy and I need exercise.
What? But that was funny.
It's just saying like, I'm too busy to write to them and I
really need to exercise. In November, he was also
appointed the Chief Justice of the Massachusetts Superior
Court. But he actually never filled
that office, but he was offered the job if he wanted it.
Abigail wrote to him. I have been like a nun in a
cloister ever since you went away and have not been to any
other house besides my father and sisters, except once to
Colonel Quincy. My evenings are lonesome and
melancholy. And I that kind of touched me in
a way. I was like, wow, I guess people
have always had no life. Yeah, I feel that way sometimes.
I feel like there was less to do though, like if I knew it would
be hard to have a social life I. Don't know why I have this
vision that back then people were like always with their
neighbors or something. Yeah, I think that too.
Family and they have like a little dance and then they're
all by the fire. Yeah.
And then people are coming in and out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe.
Not so. They're writing, you know, all
throughout, they're writing a lot about politics and what the
new country should be and what's going to happen.
And she writes about his secrecy because he's so paranoid that
people are going to read their letters.
She writes, I think you are more cautious than you need to be,
which is kind of funny. John returns to Massachusetts
for Christmas, but then he goes back to Philly not long after
March 1776. She writes her now famous letter
that is beloved by feminists all over.
It's like on March and stuff it says and by the way, in your new
code of laws, which I suppose it will be necessary for you to
make, I desire you would remember the ladies and be more
generous and favorable to them than your ancestors.
So just that remember the ladies is a quote of hers that people
talk about a lot. And she asks if men could give
up the harsh title of master for the more tender and endearing
one of friend. That's cute.
She writes another letter and says I miss my partner.
They really do seem like equals and I feel like he really does
value her opinion. Yes, however, a month, a month
after she wrote it, John responds to her.
Remember the ladies letter? He basically laughs it off and
writes I cannot but laugh and you are so saucy and depend upon
it. We know better than to repeal
our masculine system. I know.
And she fires back. She writes like this whole
paragraph. I cannot say that I think you're
very generous to the ladies for wills.
You're proclaiming peace and goodwill to men, emancipating
all nations. You insist upon retaining an
absolute power over wives. But you must remember that
arbitrary power is like most other things which are very
hard, very liable to be broken. And notwithstanding all your
wise laws and maxims, we have it in our power, and not only to be
free ourselves, but to do our masters, and without violence,
throw both your natural and legal authority at our feet.
Good. Good.
Like saucy. Why would that be flirty, you
idiot? Thanks.
You are so saucy.
God. Did he respond to that?
Not really. Not really.
I know she also writes that his letters have been much shorter
and not acknowledging everything she said.
Oh yeah. So he didn't.
I think he just dropped the remember the ladies thing.
And she writes either you haven't gotten my letters or you
want us to be more concise. But I'm not going to take the
hint. I paraphrase, but she basically
is like, I don't know if you want me to write shorter
letters, but I'm not going to. I love that.
I know she's cool. April 28th, 1776 John writes to
her. Is there no way for two friendly
souls to converse together although the bodies are 400
miles off? Yes, by letter, but I want a
better communication. I want to hear you think and or
to see your thoughts. The conclusion of your letter
makes my heart throb more than a cannonade.
Would who said that he didn't? John, John, Just sweet.
That's the thing about long distance.
I feel like for me, like physical touch is like such a
nice thing, like just being able to not say anything and cuddle
at the end of the day. And that would be so hard that
you're only reliant on your words.
And if someone's not a wordsmith, like, that's really
difficult. Luckily for them, I think they
both were wordsmiths sounds. Like he was a little lazy with
his word. Yeah.
Even though he's the one there kind of complaining.
I still think, because I read their letters, I still think he
did write pretty long letters. But I do think he spent a lot of
time talking about the Congress. Maybe she was like, OK, yeah,
that's enough. Like what else?
I. Don't know.
But despite the sweet letter where he says like, I want a
better communication, I want to see you, I want to hear you.
I was getting the sense in May 1776 that she was getting a
little annoyed with him. She started a letter saying I
don't feel like writing. And then he also that he hasn't
been writing enough and said that it's too tiring to travel
home for short times. I'm sure it was a very tough
they're going to make it. Through John wrote to her May
17th, 1776. In one or two of your letters
you remind me to think of you as I ought.
So she keeps writing, like, think of me.
And he writes. Be assured there is not an hour
of the day which I don't think of you as I ought, that is, with
every sentiment of tenderness, esteem, and admiration.
So I did think that was nice, like I am thinking of you all
the time. He writes another letter in May
saying that among all the disappointments in life, nothing
has affected him as much as the choice blessing of a wife is
her. And he writes.
I read again and again your charming letters.
I want to take a walk with you in the garden, to go over the
common, the plane, the Meadow. I want to take Charles in one
hand and Tom in the other, and walk with you, Nabby on your
right hand and John upon my left.
Aww. Which is very sweet.
She hasn't gotten his letters recently though, or they're
really delayed. But she because she writes May
27th around the same time he's writing this and says what can
be the reason? I have not heard from you since
the 20th of April and now tis the 27th of May.
Oh wow, I know it's. A really long time.
I'd be nervous. Like are they still?
Alive. I know a whole month.
That's crazy. But he has been writing letters
so I think they're just super delayed.
Abigail writes that Charlestown, the neighbourhood of Boston, has
been reduced to ashes. There's a constant roar of the
cannon she hears all night. She says they can't eat, drink
or sleep. Basically, Boston is a war zone
right now, which is crazy. And I do find it.
I know he's like doing important work, but I do find it a bit
nuts that he would leave his wife and family there.
Yeah, I wonder if there's like any, not to be like sexist about
this, but like if there's any man there helping her not not
that she necessarily needs a man, but like, oh, I'd be
scared. No, I know.
I think she. Does have family members around
both of their families. But yeah, I would be scared,
too. I hope she's not just home alone
because, yeah, like, war is really, really dangerous.
Like, some man could just come in the house and, you know,
people take advantage of situations.
So it is really scary. But I, I think she did have the
family there. June 1776 John was named the
president of the Board of War and Ordinance.
And then I just wrote that he ends his letter My love
everywhere. July 2nd, 1776 Congress votes
for independence and approves the Declaration of Independence.
I read that John Adams was actually asked to write the
Declaration of Independence, but he said he was too busy so that
job went to Thomas Jefferson. It's.
Kind of crazy. So he could have had that honor,
but. What an opportunity to turn down
I. Know, but yes, he signs the
Declaration of Independence. I think it was designed two days
later on July 4th, 4th of July, you know, July 20th.
It's funny because even though all of this is going on, they're
still having their relational problems and issues and stuff.
He gets upset in a letter to her and says he feels like her and
his friends have forgotten about him.
He writes. This has been a dull day to me.
I waited the arrival of post with so much solitude and
impatience, and then he kept writing.
If you were too busy to write, I hoped that some kind hand would
have been found to let me know something about you.
Do my friends think that I have been a politician for so long to
have lost all feeling? Do they suppose I've forgotten
my wife and children, or they so panic struck with the loss of
Canada as to be afraid to correspond with me?
Or have they forgotten that you have a husband and your children
a father? What have I done, or admitted to
do, that I should be thus forgotten and neglected in the
most tender and infecting scene in my life?
Don't miss stake me. I don't blame you.
And then he goes on to say, I know you're busy, but twenty
other people could have written to me.
So like. We've all had those times for
like, wait, everybody hate me right now.
I know. I think they say like, if you
think everybody hates you, take a nap.
Really. If you, if you, if you hate
everybody, eat something and if you hate yourself, take a
shower. So maybe he maybe he should have
taken a little nap. Maybe he was tired.
Maybe. But maybe if it weren't writing.
But there is literally a war going on.
Like, true. Yeah, not everything is about
you, you know. I do, I just love.
I don't know why. I love relating to people from
like hundreds of years ago. I know you have.
Those days like wow, no one texted me about hanging out this
weekend yeah no one has asked me what's up with me in forever.
No one cares I. Know I hate that times and like
for whatever reason I'm not on my phone all day and then I go
to look at it and I'm like Oh my God, there's no messages.
I know one time I turned my phone off for a couple days
because I wanted to like, disconnect.
When I turned it on, I think there was nothing.
Oh. My God.
That was so sad. That's funny.
He's kind of a little saucy there, too.
He is. He is.
He also writes that he suspects the family has smallpox and
she's trying to hide. It I think.
That was actually true. And then she responds.
I have no doubt that my dearest friend is anxious to know how
Portia does third person. She writes that she took the
kids to get inoculated, which is very new science at the time.
And she also mentions how the King's Arms were taken down from
the State House and everything bearing the royal arms was
burned in King Street. So it's pretty crazy.
They're rolling out everything related to England.
And she ends her letter. I am forever yours.
So they're this time they're coming up with the Constitution,
writing that that's what's happening with Congress.
August 18th, 1776, he wrote to her.
Let me have my farm family and goose quill and all the honors
and offices of this world has to bestow may go to those who
deserve them better and desire them more.
I covet them not. There are very few people in
this world with whom I can bear to converse.
This has made me a recluse and will will one day make me a
hermit. I'd rather build a Stonewall
than be the first Prince of Europe or the first general or
first senator in America. And I think that's crazy
because, like, how? I don't know if he's just being
humble, but he becomes the president.
Yeah. Like how it's I, I hope this is
I, I don't know if he's just saying this or I, I do know that
he does want to be a great man too, but I do find it really
admirable. I, I feel like we don't really
have politicians like that anymore, that they're like not
really looking for recognition or attention or glory or
anything. And I don't know, it's cool, but
I, I do think he secretly does at the same time.
Yeah, Well, because. What does he mean by great man
being? He could have been, you said, a
minister, which he could have considered that to be the noble
pursuit in his life. Like, he could have been great,
just on a smaller scale. Yeah.
They write more sweet pained letters about missing each
other. There was a funny back and forth
exchange when they realized that John had ordered tea.
Hang on, I thought they weren't drinking tea anymore but he had
ordered tea to be sent to her but it was actually accidentally
mailed to Sam Adams wife and John.
John was so vexed, quote, that he had to order another canister
of tea because I think it was really expensive.
And he tells Abigail to write to Misses Sam Adams and let her
know that the tea was for her and ask if she'll send it to her
or like what's left of it. Oh no, that's terrible.
She probably got the tea. And she goes, hey, that is a
nice gesture. What a surprise.
Your cousin sent me this. That's sweet.
OK, so September 1776, him and Ben Franklin and others go to
New York to meet British peace commissioners to negotiate for
peace. But I guess the British were
only authorized to offer peace after American submission.
So the war is not over. And John writes a letter where
he talks about corruption going on, I'm guessing because
everything is kind of in shambles right now and a lot of
these guys are just being really corrupt, being bribed and things
like that. And he writes, I'm ashamed of
the age I live in. Yeah, October 76, he returns
home for a nine week visit, so that's a good amount.
But then he returns to Philadelphia.
British are still I guess I don't get why the family
couldn't be based in Philly. I.
Don't know. I know.
I feel like historians don't really know why either.
I don't know if it was just like, Oh well, someone needs to
keep the farm going or something, or I don't know why
or, or he just thought it wasn't.
Maybe none of the men had their families with them.
I don't know what the deal was. But it is strange because he
even says like, I wish you would be here with me, like, like I
would live here with you. So like, why does why don't they
just go? I don't know.
Yeah. So there's still the British is
the March 1777, he writes. This city, meaning Philly, is a
dull place in comparison to what it was because a lot of people
had fled to the country because of the war.
And he says the remainder, like remaining people, are chiefly
Quakers who are dull as beetles. I know, he writes.
Again about. Preferring the delightness of
his garden to the dominion of the world.
And he says I have nothing of Caesar's greatness in my soul.
OK, humble, maybe it's. Because Abigail, his wife, likes
when someone has a little bit of modesty on their face.
True, true, true. Yes.
Modesty in the lines of his face.
Yeah. She's like stop being.
So full of yourself. John.
Yeah. May Abigail write to him.
Tis 10 days, I believe, since I wrote you a line, yet not 10
minutes past without thinking of you.
Oh, that's so sweet. Dramatically.
Take a little bathroom break. Oh yes, it's a good time.
Take a break. OK, so she writes this sweet
thing like, 10, not 10 minutes past without thinking of you.
But interestingly, around this time, so it's spring 1777, there
are letters that Abigail wrote that seemed kind of flirtatious
to this Massachusetts statesman, James Lovell.
I didn't even know about this. Like, I thought it was all done
with research. And then I just kind of kept
that always happened. I just kept going.
And. Then I came across this and I
couldn't believe it because there's these letters where
she's writing to him and she even calls herself Portia to
this James guy and he calls her Porsche too, which like, what
the heck, That was her nickname for John and who is this to?
Roni, like what? I don't know.
Is he married? Single.
I will. Oh, he's married.
I'll talk more about him later. But it does seem like she's
writing to him very excitedly. Very.
Sweetly not. She's not saying like my lover
or anything, but it just seems like she's really loving his
letters and stuff. So I don't know what the heck is
going on, but we'll, we'll come back to that.
Also in May, while this is going on, John's writing her letters.
He's talking about all these philosophical ideas and then I
just thought it was funny. After all of this talking about
government blah blah, he has this whole paragraph.
He's complaining about the alcohol available in Philly and
he says that wine is too expensive, there's no cider and
the beer there is wretchedly bad.
And he says, in short, I can get nothing that I can drink.
I believe I shall be sick from this cause alone.
And he writes the expensive rum and bad water won't do in this
hot climate. So this really got me thinking
because people have said that, you know, in places where water
was bad, they would drink beer and such.
So were people actually slightly drunk like all the time?
I know, I know. I feel like it was a low
alcohol. Percentage.
But if you're drinking it all day, I'd imagine maybe a little
bit interesting. I know that always confused me
because like that would still. Dehydrate you, I'd imagine.
I know, I know. August 70. 7 Abigail writes
about how it's been almost 13 years since they first met, and
she writes about how hard it is to be separated from him, but
considers it her sacrifice for her country.
And John writes again about the alcohol situation.
And I thought it was crazy. He said that wine was $10 a
bottle. It's because it's 1777.
That must have been so expensive.
Wine can be $10 a bottle today. Yeah, a cheap bottle, but still,
yeah. Yeah, yeah.
But honestly? I can go to the bodega
downstairs. And get a $6 bottle of wine.
I know, isn't that crazy? It must have been really,
really, really expensive. Yeah.
See, I think. See, I think the.
Tea was like that. Same situation too where it was
really expensive so I think that's why he was so upset about
it being sent to his cousin's wife.
But that makes sense when he says again.
He wishes he could get a. Cider, and I love that because I
love cider too. I'm actually drinking a cider
right now. September.
She right ends her letter. Good night.
Friend of my heart, companion of my youth, husband and lover.
Sweet that. October 77.
It's been three years of separation.
I think if you add it up, John, then N77 is elected a joint
commissioner to treat with the French government.
So France and England are enemies, hate each other, and
basically France is trying to make deals with America.
They do help in the Revolutionary War because they
want to take down England, too. And so there's just a lot of
negotiations going on, things about like loans to America and
like all this stuff, international relations.
So he is asked to go to France and he does.
I do wonder, you know, we don't know.
We don't have written down because he goes home I think
first. But like, did he talk about this
with Abigail? Was she OK with this?
Did he ask her? We don't know, but for some
reason she doesn't go with him. But he does bring their son,
John Quincy Adams to France. Oh, and how old is he at this
point? I think he's.
He's school age. Let's see.
When he was born, he was born 17670.
So he's like 11. Yeah, he's 11 years old and it's
been exciting for him. Yeah, I know he.
Hasn't really. Gotten to spend that much time
with his. Dad so and I think this is
crazy. Because they've sailed to
France, it's crossover episode 'cause we have an episode about
Lita 16th and Marie Antoinette and that is who the king and
queen were at the time. When he goes wow isn't that
crazy that was staying there and he meets.
Them. That was a really Oh, no way.
Yeah, damn, Yeah, that was a really good episode.
Oh, it's Patreon. Yeah.
If you guys like the podcast and you want double the amount of
couples to listen to Shameless little plug for the Patreon
right now. It was kind of a funny.
Episode, I mean, the end was dark, but raunchy.
Yeah, it was raunchy. Very.
Raunchy. Isn't interestingly so the book
that I bought, that one, that was $3 of their letters.
It was a used book, and for some reason around this time the
previous owner of this book drew a giant X through one of
Abigail's letters and edited it. It was almost like they thought
the transcription was wrong or something.
It was so strange. Wait, I don't know what was
creepy. I know why that like, Spooks me
out. It was very weird and the person
added like a. Sticky note to where they added
like a line to it. There was a sticky note in it.
Yeah, it was very. Odd.
Was that the only thing? The person.
Wrote. Yes, it was just this one.
Section and exed it out. Yeah, interesting.
Too. Weird I.
Know I don't know what their problem.
Is. But what does the letter say?
Honestly, nothing that. Remarkable.
I didn't even think it was worth putting in the book.
It was just a typical letter, like talking about what's going
on at home and that I miss you and things like that.
So he is this person. That would be I know who did
that. I guess that's why it was $3.
During John's time in France, they hardly hear from each
other. Like, at all.
From February to June, John gets no letters from her.
Wow, that's such a long time. No contact whatsoever.
Yeah, and it's not that she's not trying.
I think the letters are just not making it.
Ships are being seized. People are stealing his mail for
some reason. So he doesn't hear from her for
months. And then she eventually writes
that she hasn't heard from him in four months.
So I think some letters make it eventually, but it's crazy.
Like, I, I would, it would feel like they're gone, you know,
like they could be dead. Just no word from them, you
know, It's crazy. And then John.
Adams receives news that their letters have been thrown
overboard. And in one letter that makes it,
he tells her not to write anything that she wouldn't want
to be published in a newspaper. And he writes that he's written
her 50 letters and she's only received a handful of them.
So that's. That's so frustrating.
I would be so mad if I wrote 50 letters and only, like, 3 made
it, you know? Yeah.
He. Complaints to her.
That people are writing to Ben Franklin because he's in France,
too, but not to him yet. This friend of me, like people
back in America, the congressman and everything, they're they're
writing things to Franklin about what's going on, but not to him.
So he feels like he's in his shadow.
Yeah, and John Adams was definitely not as popular as Ben
Franklin in France. Ben Franklin was very
charismatic and actually a flirt I guess, which is I think I've
heard that. He was, like, slutty, yeah, but
John Adams was much more uptight.
And prickly and like, let's get to work.
So he was not as popular as Ben Franklin, but John Adams seemed
to overall love France actually. And he said in a letter, as much
as I respect this country, particularly the king and royal
family, I could not help reflecting how many families in
another country would this tallow make happy for life.
So like animal fat basically just saying there's so much
richness here at Versailles and such and such like.
I can't help thinking how this would go a long way somewhere
else. So he doesn't want that to
happen in America. You know, they don't want to
have a king that's having all these riches and such.
He writes the king and queen. So Louis and Marie Antoinette
are greatly beloved here at this time.
They were Every day shows fresh proof of it.
On the other side of the Channel, there's a king who's
the opposite. So he means the king of England.
But it's kind of ironic, sadly, because the English monarchy
still exists to this day. And pretty soon, in this story,
the French monarchy's going to be overthrown.
So it's interesting that he writes that he mentions in a
letter to her February 79, I grow fat here in France.
And then that the English have published some of his letters,
and they're tearing him apart. They're making fun of him.
They're calling him a fanatic, a bigot, awkward figure, uncouth
dress, no character, you're just looking.
For stuff I know, don't take it personally, John.
Also in February. 79 he gets a little.
Snippy with her in a letter and says for God's sake, never
reproach me again with not writing or with writing scripts.
Oh well, hey, I thought, there's.
Like the letters are getting. I know, lost I know, but I know.
But I think. She's still writing, being like,
why haven't you written? And she's like, stop saying that
to me. Yeah, he was getting.
Really paranoid actually, though, during this time in
France, he thought that there were spies all around and there
may have been French people giving information to the
English or something like that. He was really stressed out at
work. I don't think negotiations were
working with France and he started having panic attacks.
He was just not doing well. June 79, Abigail writes that she
hasn't heard from him in six months.
Just crazy. I'm guessing these letters
eventually make it. Because somehow we have them
today that same month that she says that she gets a letter from
that guy I mentioned earlier, James Lovell and she writes
really flirty seeming things. She writes it's going to be kind
of flowery language where she's like, do you love the natural
sentiments of the heart? Take them then as they flow from
the pen of Porsche. Having been take having been to
take a ride this afternoon, upon my return stopped at my brother,
blah, blah, blah, and he told me a gentleman from Boston had left
a large package for me in the house.
My heart bounded, for for joy I besought him to deliver them
instantly to me. The bulk of the packet ensured
them a pressure to my bosom. My spirits danced.
It was dark, I could not see the handwriting, but was in no doubt
from whence they came. And then she continue.
So basically, I guess he sent her a package and she held it to
her bosom. And then she continues to write
that she cried reading his letter.
Yeah, I mean, it makes. Sense she's barely heard from
her guy she's lonely she needs to like somehow get that same
feeling she's filling that void probably I mean it's.
I don't. We don't know, like how far it
went. Seems like it's just like a
fantasy but like. It's probably just because she
loves. John so much and she misses him.
Yeah, I mean we. We don't really know what the
heck happened. It could have been just like a
friendship or like slightly flirtation.
I don't know. But it is understandable you
haven't heard from your husband in six months.
Like, you can understand wanting a little love and excitement,
and there's no record of John Adams ever flirting with anyone
or anything. I mean, of course we don't know.
Yeah, but there's no reports of it.
November. 79 He finally returns home with his son John Quincy
Adams. And while home, he, I think,
goes back to Philly again because he helped us draft the
Constitution. So Oh my God.
And then he learns that Congress has appointed him to negotiate
an end to the War of Independence again, because it's
still going on. So 79, he sails back to France,
November. So I guess he comes back and
leaves again in the same month. I don't know how that's even
possible. But he sails back.
This time he brings John Quincy Adams and their son Charles.
So it takes two of the sons. Their ship, I guess, was having
problems and they had to port in Spain for repairs.
And then they had to make the torturous journey by land to
Paris. And it took like a month or so.
There was even less communication this time.
Summer 1780, he went to Amsterdam to get a loan for the
American government and had the Netherlands recognize their
country. And he was there in Amsterdam
for a year. No, with the boys.
So I think that. The John Quincy Adams, I guess
he might be an early young teenager.
I think he, I think he actually went to Russia.
I don't know why. I think he was at least with
Charles. May 25th, 1781, Abigail wrote.
I haven't heard from you in eight months.
Oh my gosh, I know she's very anxious.
Like he could be dead. That's crazy.
Like how can you go 8 months without hearing from your
spouse? Yeah, I don't.
I feel like you would. Just go crazy.
I know I I literally. Can't even imagine it.
He returns to Paris July 1781, then back to Amsterdam, then to
Paris. So I don't know.
He's just going back and forth, working on treaties between US,
Britain and France. December 81, he writes from
Amsterdam to her. If God should please to restore
me once more into your fireside, I will never again leave it
without your Ladyship's company. No, not even to Congress.
To Philadelphia. I would give a million sterling
that you were here. And then this is crazy.
They decided that their son Charles should return to
America. Maybe because he keeps going
back and forth between the countries and everything.
It's just not stable. And so they decided he's going
to go alone back to America. He is 11 years old.
Oh my gosh, way too young. He.
Was with a supervisor like somebody that.
John knew, but still. The crazy thing is, though, they
say, you know, he hasn't go on the ship goodbye, you know, and
then they don't hear from him for four months.
What? That's terrible, I think.
So scary. Was he supposed to arrive?
He was supposed to arrive. Sounded like a monthly.
Yeah, apparently there's a violent.
Storm and the ship. Got docked in Spain but for some
reason they didn't leave again for months.
I guess because it was winter and the weather was bad, but Oh
no, I know. Wait.
That must have been so. Scary for I.
Know like I can't tell my mom where I am.
I know he's only 11 and he's just with like some.
Guy, I mean, I don't know how close he was to the supervisor
and yeah, and poor Abigail, like, she's just back.
Does she even know what's going on?
She's just like, where's my son? What the heck?
It's crazy what people do back then, Yeah, people were built
differently. They.
Really had to just like kind of put on a brave face I know how
to do losing my mind but they probably tell their neighbour
about. That and they'll go, yeah.
Same thing. Yeah, like something worse.
Happened to me. Yeah.
Yeah, Abigail. He did make it home, though.
Miraculously, Abigail wrote to John something along the lines
of which I thought that was kind of funny.
This is funny, she wrote. Basically, what if we just
bought a woods retreat in Vermont?
Aw, I just think it's funny that.
Even to over 2. 100 years ago Vermont was still a place that
people would like run off to. I know some things never change.
So 1782 I read that that guy that she had been maybe flirting
with James Lovell. I don't even know if this is
true, but that had leaked in discrete letters with Abigail
Adams and that he had an affair. With his landlady.
Oh, a separate lady. So he stepped down from his role
in Congress? What a player I know.
But. Interestingly, this threw me
off. The historian John Smith claimed
that Abigail endured flirtations with James Level just to get
information from him since he was in government and her
husband was so far away. Could this be true?
But also, how does he know that? Yeah, I don't know.
I know. I feel like we're projecting
you. Know that onto these people, but
maybe. That that would.
Be pretty falsy of her. Pretty saucy, yeah.
So then 1782, it's been three years since he's been in France,
and Abigail writes that she can't take it anymore.
Yeah, I'm going to come to Europe.
And John writes that he is tenderly, that tenderly affected
him, but no, no, I'm coming home.
Good. And he wrote that he had no idea
what he was still doing there and then he had not heard from
Congress in ages. And he's been waiting for them
to tell him to return, but it almost seems like they forgot
about him. So he says, that's it, I'm
resigning. And he is worried.
In his letter, he says, I hope that my letter reaches you and
that you won't sail to Europe because I'm not gonna sail back.
Oh, my gosh. Did she?
Go. It sounds like a plot of a.
Movie. Or not, I know.
Luckily. I think they made it in time.
He did go back before he left and they were reunited, but then
they both went back to France together.
Good I guess. I don't know why that couldn't
have happened. All along I know, and they
brought. The other kids and so the whole
family is in Paris now and they actually stay in Europe for four
years together as a family. Nice.
And thankfully they were never a separate like that again after
this. I have no idea how they even got
through that. I know, I know.
It's crazy because like in the beginning, we're like.
This is a very loving story, like it's a hopeful story, which
it is, but it like, gosh, they had to go through all this.
They really went through. A lot.
It's crazy and but we've kind of talked about it before.
With long distance relationships, sometimes that
longing for some people and some couples can almost like
strengthen their relationship even more.
Yeah, I think so. 1788, they finally returned to
Massachusetts and John returned his farming.
But the nation's first presidential election was soon
to take place. Oh, and just so you know, I
actually don't really have much to say with actual presidency
because it was all the letters. And now that they're reunited
together, there will not be letters.
And then since George Washington was widely expected to win the
presidency, many felt that the vice president should go to a
northerner because he's from Virginia.
And even though he didn't campaign or anything, John Adams
was the primary contender because he had done a lot for
the country. People knew about him.
He basically negotiated the whole peace treaty in the end,
so it was just assumed that he would be the vice president.
And yeah, the way it worked back then was that the person with
the most votes would be the president, and the second person
with the second most votes would be the vice president.
And Adams received 34 Electoral College votes in the election,
and he became the 1st Vice President.
And interestingly, in an effort to ensure that John Adams did
not accidentally become president, Alexander Hamilton
convinced at least seven of the 69 electors to not cast their
vote for Adams because he wanted to make sure Washington won.
And after he found out about this, Adams wrote to Benjamin
Rush and said that the election was a curse rather than a
blessing. Him and Alexander Hamilton were,
they were both Federalists, but they were both rivals and, yeah,
did not like each other. It seems like he's doesn't
necessarily get along with everybody.
No, he did not. He did.
Not here to make friends, I think interestingly.
Like he was friends. With some people, but he was
competitive with them. And I think secretly didn't like
them sometimes, Like they may not have.
I think like even Ben Franklin might not have known how much he
disliked him. And I think he was friends with
some people that then then they became enemies like Thomas
Jefferson. Yeah.
So then he was the VP. Interestingly, they were trying
to decide, since, you know, this was the very first president,
they were trying to decide how they would address the
president. And John Adams wanted to call
him kindness or Excellency, but Thomas Jefferson said that was
ridiculous. And then they agreed that they
would call him Mr. President. That's classy.
Mr. President, I. Think that being in France that
long kind of rubbed off on John Adams.
He felt sort of useless as a vice president and by the end of
his term he just sort of went along with whatever Washington
wanted and was kind of quiet. But he did have the record for
the most tie breaking votes ever, which was basically all
the VP did. But he had that record until
recently. Kamala Harris actually broke it.
Oh wow. I know.
So George Washington. Served 2 terms.
He didn't want to do a third. He could have, but he just
decided not to and stepped down. In 1789, there was another
election, and John Adams, the Federalist nominee, received 71
votes and became president. He was 61 years old and Abigail
was 52, so he is the second. President of the.
United States Thomas Jefferson, who was a Democratic Republican,
received 68 votes. So it was a really close
election, actually, and he became the vice president.
It's kind of cute they used to do it that way if you got I.
Know second place you became VP that is is kind of like a checks
and balances. It's like, okay, like people
still wanted the other guy. So yeah, like they'll still the
these two kind of have to work together now.
I know. I mean, some people say like it
was. Hard to get things done in a
way, but I I kind of like it too.
I wish there was like. Some way to?
Work it out. I don't know now, like on the
same team. So it's like, yeah, they.
Like can't find together. Yeah, yeah.
They did sort of hate each other, though.
They, they used to be friends, but they had to work together.
John Adams decided to retain Washington's cabinet because he
thought that consistency would be a good thing.
But it was a decision that he came to regret because of
everybody's relationship to Alexander Hamilton.
Hamilton and Adams did not like each other and did not agree on
politics. And you get the sense that all
throughout his presidency, Alexander Hamilton and Thomas
Jefferson were actually like, both trying to run this show.
And they have their own followers.
And John Adams was kind of in the middle.
And people have said that his time in office was free of
scandal. But there were conflicts during
his presidency, which we don't have time to get into.
But Abigail Adams, she took a pretty active role in politics,
actually, unlike Martha Washington.
And she was so politically active that her political
opponents called her Mrs. President.
Oh I know, but like as if. It was an insult.
We'll take it as a compliment today, but yeah, you said
political opponent. Oh yeah, I know.
Mrs. President, Yeah. Like oh, Mrs. President.
But. Today, that sounds endearing.
Yeah, I know. They moved into the White House
in 1800. They were actually the first
president and first lady to live in the White House.
Strangely, when they were in the White House, John Abigail had
three mixed breed dogs named Mark, Juno and Satan.
Satan. Yeah, OK, I read that
originally. Satan was named.
Peter, but I'm guessing he was a bad dog, or he must have been.
Call him Satan. It's so.
Funny, I feel like if that happened.
Today it would be political. Scandal.
And the opponents would be like, damn, they're like some freaky
people. I know they're a part of a
conspiracy. I know it's weird.
Those are two horses, Cleopatra and Caesar.
That's so cute. His VP, Thomas Jefferson, tried
to. Undermine him throughout his
whole presidency. That is bad.
Like, you don't want your vice president doing that.
Yeah, that is true. That would actually be.
Not productive. Yeah, Yeah.
And then Thomas Jefferson. Won the next election so John
Adams only served one term and adding to the agony their son
Charles actually died around this time November 30th of
alcoholism so that's the son that was actually left behind in
Spain years ago so you wonder if like the.
Trauma of like being, I do wonder, lost, yeah.
Abigail had already. Left the white.
House because this happened so she wanted to get back to
Massachusetts and the inauguration for the new
president was happening and he was anxious to join her.
I think he was also super upset how it all went down and hated
Thomas Jefferson. So on the morning of Jefferson's
inauguration, John Adams departed the White House at the
pre dawn hours, like 4:00 in the morning or something, and did
not attend his inauguration. And he's only one of five
outgoing presidents to not have attended the inauguration.
Does that including Donald Trump?
Yeah. Yeah.
And does that also include the ones who have passed away?
No. That office, actually, Yeah.
Yeah. So of the presidents.
That were still alive when another president was being
sworn in. There's only been five that
didn't attend the inauguration, and John Adams is one of them.
I think it's like. Really not classy to not go.
I do like like when people are. It's not they shake their hand.
And they wished a lot. Peaceful transition of power.
Exactly. It's one of the bedrocks of our
democracy, yeah. John was not.
Willing to do that, early 1801, John sent Thomas Jefferson a
brief note wishing him a happy and prosperous presidency,
though. But I guess Thomas Jefferson
never responded and they did not speak to each other again for 12
years. But in 1804, unknown to John
Adams, to her husband, Abigail wrote to Jefferson because her
his daughter had died and she had stayed with the Adams in
London in the past. And they wrote back and forth to
each other, at first kind of sweetly, but then it turned into
political fighting. That's sad.
Jefferson didn't. Answer her 4th letter.
Yeah. So John Abigail returned to
Massachusetts. John Adams returned to his
farming their son John Quincy Adams.
He was elected to the Senate in 18 O3.
In 1818, Abigail Adams died at the age of 74 of typhoid and
then in 1825 their son John Quincy Adams was elected
president and John Adams himself died July 4th, 1926 on the 50th
anniversary of signing the Declaration of Independence.
That's so crazy, isn't? That crazy.
He must have been pretty. Old when he died?
Yes, he was 91 years old. Wow at that time period.
That's crazy, you know. And what's even more wild?
Apparently his. Last words among his last words.
I don't think it was his actual last words, but he said Thomas
Jefferson survives. He was unaware that Jefferson
had died several hours before. So they both died on the 4th of
July. Wait I'm going to 50th
anniversary? I know, isn't that crazy?
Did he know that Thomas Jefferson was sick?
No, he thought he was. I think he thought he was.
Doing fine. So he's kind of like, damn him.
He survives, but he died that day too.
I don't, I don't like that that's.
Like, creepy to me. Really.
I think it's I wrote in my notes.
God. Is real?
Oh yeah, I guess so, but I thought it was so.
Cool, I know. That is so crazy.
But like after the whole like crossing.
Out that letter. In the book, like, I'm a little
scared. No, I think that was just
somebody being. Annoying, like maybe they had
read it somewhere else where it was written differently or
something and they were just like, no, this isn't right.
Or like, I don't, I don't know why they did that.
But yeah, I was actually not creeped out by the.
Crossing out. I just thought it was.
Someone being a busy body or something.
That's true. Pretty crazy.
Wow. I guess the Liberty Bell.
Was rung in their. Honor that day.
That must have been a crazy day for the country.
I guess I don't know what news was like back then, like how
quickly you found out, but it's like, I feel like you'd be like,
Oh my God, you're here. Thomas Jefferson died.
No, it's actually John Adams. No, like they both died on July
4th, no less. It's crazy.
Wow. How?
Does that. Happen.
On the 50th anniversary. I know.
Wow. Yeah, God is real.
And that situation, that's crazy.
That is John Abigail. Adams Wow.
I didn't even mention that I went to their.
House the other day. Yeah.
Yeah, so I was. Just I was in Boston anyway.
And it was only like a 15 minute drive from where I was going.
So I was like, I should just go. So I went.
I didn't go inside. You can't go inside, but you
needed to book like a tour. But I just walked around and it
was really cool. It felt kind of mystical and
magical to be there. That's cute.
After this episode I want. To go there too.
I really want to go inside I I would love to do that.
It was cool. There was this rose Bush rose
tree that it said was planted by Abigail Adams.
Wow. It's like whoa to see it's still
there so long ago. Can you walk around inside?
You can, yeah. You just need to book a tour I
think. It's the kind of thing where
they won't they they only run tours if you book it.
Does that make sense? There wasn't someone just
waiting there to like, all right, we're like, we're
starting a tour. Like, yeah, you need.
And I needed to. I had somewhere to be so I But I
would love to go back and go inside.
Yeah, it's really cool. Made me a little sad because I
feel like you can imagine when you're there because they still
have somewhat large grounds there.
It's like they have all these trees and hill and the garden
and everything. But you can kind of imagine that
it used to be like a lot more countryside, but now it's like
right by a highway. So it's like but.
You can. It's kind of cool.
Because you can kind of imagine what it was like back then.
Anyway, that was John. And Abigail?
Wow, we really haven't covered American history.
In that way, before, it was so interesting.
I love that we have those letters.
Me too, I love. Love that kind of thing.
Thank you guys for listening. Yeah, thank you, Kelly.
That was a lot. Oh, can you hint our next?
Episode. Next week is totally different.
As always, next week is about a couple from the 20 tens.
OK and two actors. One of the people in the
relationship we mentioned in the Miley and Liam episode.
That might be a huge spoiler. Two episodes.
Ago. I got to say I feel like these 4
episodes. Of this month are so us.
What do you mean by that? Okay.
First one was like a Disney. Adjacent yeah yeah, yeah thing
then we had like a modernist intriguing kind of scandal
newsworthy but like a little bit more niche yeah and then.
Yes, yes, yes. Kind of like Gypsy Rose or the
TJ in India. And then we had like a 1700s
one. And then we have a 20 tens,
something I loved in high school, like, I don't know, just
very us. Yeah, but yeah, that's next
week. Did we even mention that we
were? Mentioned in the Guardian.
No, we didn't. Yeah.
Which was a huge surprise. Yes so so cool, but just
mentioned an article. They were like some historical
couples, some stuff for millennials.
Yep, thanks to the. Guardian, thank you guys for
listening. Yeah, and.
We'll yield back together next week.
Is your heartbeat with pain? Shall I come back?