Are you lonesome tonight? Do you miss me tonight?
Are you sorry we drifted apart? Does your man?
Hi, guys. Welcome to significant lovers.
Hello. Hello.
We are your host. My name is Mel.
And I'm Kel. And I'm Caitlin, and in case
this is your first time tuning in, this is a true love podcast,
not a true crime podcast. We dissect and talk about and
explore couples and relationships from history to
today. And we're cousins.
They're sisters and I'm their cousin Yes and yeah.
Thanks for joining us today for free.
I forgot if this is on the Patreon or not.
Public episode, public episodes. So if this is your first
episode, thank you. If you've been listening for a
while, thanks for coming back. Today we're talking about a
person that we've already talked about three times before, Taylor
Swift, one of the most famous people in the whole world, 2024
Time magazine Person of the year, and her first relationship
that I think people ever talked about, her first like famous
relationship, which was with Joe Jonas of the Jonas Brothers.
Yeah, I would say that's. True.
And I guess I'll get into it later, but I feel like this
started the reputation she had that she, like, only wrote about
her real life relationships and had so many relationships.
Yeah, it was boy crazy. And I don't know.
Definitely. And that's like a big part of it
that I want to talk about as it goes on because I feel like
people they talk about Taylor Swift, like they either say
like, oh, she only writes about boys or she's boy crazy or she
dates a ton of celebrities. But then people are like, well,
like that's misogynistic to say that blah, blah, blah.
Like you wouldn't say that about anyone else.
But like this was a pretty significant and the way that she
kind of approached this specific relationship was very, I think
purposeful and. Calculated.
A little bit maybe, so it'll be fun to talk about.
Yeah, my friend Emily, I saw last week, she has a Joe Jonas
keychain on her keys. And I said, Oh my gosh, we're
doing episode about him soon. So I'm like, if you're
listening, this is for you. And we haven't covered Joe Jonas
before, but we talked about his brother Nick Jonas on the
podcast True and Nick in Miley. Was that around the same time?
Yeah. You know what?
Actually, he was dating Selena Gomez at the same time because
they. Selena Gomez and Taylor Swift
claimed that they first became friends from hanging out like
backstage at the Jonas Brothers concert.
So that's how they became close is because they both were dating
like one of the brothers, but Nick was going like back and
forth between Selena and Miley. I remember that.
But before we get into the episode, I want to thank some of
our recent recent patrons. Story North by Claro, Marielle,
Melissa, Trev, Trev, PPP or Trevip.
Thank you guys. Thank you.
Thank. You.
Thank you. Thank you.
Very nice. Yep.
And then so for our trivia segment to start the episode.
So we're going to talk about in this episode like breakup songs.
OK, right. So I'm.
Gonna do horribly. I'm gonna read you guys some
lyrics. Oh no, that involve couples
we've discussed on the podcast before breakup lyrics and you
have to tell me who they're from.
And the singer? Yeah, the singer, OK, but I
actually got 6 and I don't know if that's too many, but I didn't
know how easy or hard this was going to be.
Some I think are easy. I think it'll be, yeah, OK, just
go. OK, this one we found each
other. I helped you out of a broken
place. You gave me comfort, but falling
for you was my mistake. John Mayer.
No. Oh.
Katy Perry. No.
What I don't recognize this we. Neither we.
Found. Well, that's not how it goes.
Found each. No, that's still not.
We found each other. Sing it again.
I don't really know the melody. OK, sing the melody, she said.
I don't know the melody. Sing.
What were you humming? Whatever you're humming.
I know the. Chorus.
OK, sing a chorus. Literally Taylor Swift.
No. OK, that's three.
That's three. I don't know.
I. Didn't give up.
Carly Simon. OK, James Taylor.
One more guess, I want to say John.
Legend, but we never covered. It.
I give up. It's the weekend from the song
Call Out My Name. I've, oh, call out my name.
OK, yeah, I forgot we you guys covered them.
OK, here's the next one. This one I thought was easy.
I have to not sing this one in the melody.
OK. But if I'm embarrassing me, I'm
embarrassing you, and don't you dare say it isn't true.
Taylor Swift? Eminem.
Yes. Oh yeah, wait, how's it?
Going but it's I'm embarrassing me, I'm embarrassing you and
don't you dare say it isn't true as I think it's as long as the
track is getting airway, I'm getting sued or something.
That's an underrated. One one point.
Cal OK, still like to leave the party and go home, babe.
And don't you know, babe? I'd rather sit here on my own
and be alone. Babe, no.
Are any of these hairs swept? I swear to God.
Just hang on. I know.
I thought that was sounds very familiar.
Sounds very. Familiar to like to leave the
party and go home, babe. And don't you know babe?
I'd rather sit here on my own and be alone, babe.
John Mayer, yeah. That's the song I Still Feel
Like You're Man by John Mayer. OK, we're time 11.
She puts the hurt in hurt. She puts the Y in try.
Yeah. That sounds like a country
lyric. She puts the SOB in.
Sober, she puts. The Hangover.
That's Blake Shellin about Miranda Lambert.
The song is She's got away with Words.
OK, I Got hooked. You're My heroine.
Be my overdose. I need a therapist.
Wanna go right? No, no, he.
We don't know. Keep breaking my heart like I
knew you would, baby. I'm a rebel, but I'll treat you
good. Miley.
No. That's so that was a good guess.
Sing it again. Sounds like a Halsey lyrics.
I was literally thinking Halsey. I think I got hooked.
You're my heroin be my overdose. I need a therapist.
Keep breaking my heart like I knew you would, baby.
I'm a rebel, but I'll treat you good.
Thinking they're edgy. Is this silver Swift?
No how? Many guesses have we?
Done. I only guess one Selena Gomez.
Nope. The Veronicas?
Nope. Forgot, I know we've covered so
many people at this point. Do you know the melody?
I got hooked. You're my heroin.
Be my overdose. I need a.
Therapist Keep. Breaking my heart like I knew
you would, baby. I'm a rebel, but I'll treat you
good. It does.
Oh wow, maybe not. No, it's crazy.
You can tell. It.
Sounds like 2008. It I think it, well, it's not,
but it's someone who made music around then do you give up?
I'll give you a hint. Kelly's one of her hints was
really close, she said a relative of this person.
Relative. What am I relative?
I'm sorry, not one of one of your guesses.
Tish No, no one. No, the other Cyrus.
Trey Cyrus, this is his song. Brenda about Brenda's song, the
last one and this this song is not we don't really know that
it's about this person and this relationship, but.
It's still a break. Potentially.
The landline. You used to call me on myself.
That's not the song. OK, OK.
And I wonder where you are tonight if you're, if the one
you're with was a compromise as we're walking lines in parallel
that we'll never meet and it's just as well.
Taylor Swift. Nope.
Oh my. It sounds so familiar.
Say it again, Arch light. And I wonder where you are
tonight, if the one you're with was a compromise as we're
walking lines in parallel that we'll never meet and it's just
as well. Rihanna.
No. Lindsey Buckingham.
No, I think you're out of guesses.
That sounds so familiar. The one you're with is a
compromise I can like. Picture us talking about this.
What? I know it's like crazy.
Are you like, Oh my God, it's so obvious.
Yeah, no, it feels so obvious to me, but.
Like do you think this is an easy one?
But I can't get it. Just because it was one of
Kelly's episodes. Oh OK, I know now.
Who is it? I guess I got a hint.
Is it death Cab for key? Yeah, yay, that kept for Cutie.
I forgot the. Song Summer days, possibly about
Zooey Deschanel, but in the episode you said there's no way
to know for sure, but definitely, yeah, Summer days,
500 days of summer, Yeah, that has to be.
And they just got divorced. Kelly won.
There were so many artists I
could have done that. That was.
Kind of. I was waiting for the tailor.
Too obvious. What did?
I didn't think there was going to be a Taylor Swift 1 I think.
That could have been She has so many.
Yeah, but the episodes about her?
No. It's too obvious.
You could have done one where you just had to guess the boy it
was faced on. Maybe once we do all of her
songs, but OK. Yeah.
So we've covered Taylor, so I'm not going to go into her back
story, like at all. We talked about her with respect
to John Mayer, Yes, Jake Gyllenhaal and Joe Allen.
So this is another Joe 2 Joes. Link to the episodes or go back
and find them? Yeah.
Yes. If you want to learn about her
as a person. This is our first person that
we're doing 4 episodes about. I kind of didn't pre prepare the
three words I forgot, but I would say juvenile, brief and
dramatic. OK, intriguing.
That's fun. Fun for us to talk about.
Yeah. So Joe, he is the second son of
Paul Kevin Jonas, a musician and pastor, and his mom, Denise.
What his? Dad's name is Paul Kevin Jonas.
Interesting. Why I don't know Paul Kevin.
Interesting name I don't know. And that one of his kids is
named Kevin. I actually think Kevin Jonas.
Oh, isn't that not his? Real name.
That's his middle name. Oh, yeah.
His name might also be Paul. Yeah, it's Paul or Kevin Jonas
the second. But I don't know if the dad goes
by Paul or Kevin, admittedly. I'm not sure, admittedly.
And his mom, Denise, was a sign language teacher and a singer as
well. So they're very musical
households and I think they, like, grew up in the church.
So they were always like singing together.
He was born in Arizona and his younger brother Nick was born in
Texas. And I don't know why, maybe they
moved around a lot, but their family is pretty well known to
have grown up in New Jersey, so. Take a drink.
Yeah, what? Is that in our drinking?
Game. Yeah, that they moved.
They moved I don't know what they just like went on a
vacation and we're born there like or like a short trip like I
don't know why they were his dad was a pastor.
That's not really like a travelling Maybe he.
Was a travelling pastor. Maybe.
But I think you're right. I don't know why I know this,
but they did primarily grow. Up in New Jersey, yeah.
But I guess, yeah, take a drink, although I already finished.
Yeah, and they were deeply involved in the Church of
Assemblies of God, which is a Pentecostal form of
Christianity. When Joe was around nine years
old, his brother Nick was discovered at a barbershop when
someone overheard him singing and referred him to a talent
scout or a business manager. Wow, someone's just discovered
in public. Yeah, a little boy just singing,
and I think Nick must have been like 6 or something at this
point, which is interesting that like the youngest one was kind
of like their. In.
Yeah, they're in into the industry, which is like a lot of
families seem to have that like the Jackson family, like Michael
Jackson was the most like the star and he was the youngest
they. Were all in the Jackson 5.
Yeah, but he was definitely the most.
I mean, I guess like. The front.
Runner in the Jones what we're? Talking about yeah, but after
that Nick began acting in kid roles on Broadway.
Then the boys all began homeschooling in like 2001, 2002
and and then Nick released his first solo album which was a
Christian themed album in 2004. So what's Joe doing this whole
time? So at this time, like Joe's in
school and then they're homeschooled, and then the
brothers are like, let's start a band.
It was originally going to be called the Sons of Jonas, but
then they changed it to the Jonas Brothers, and this was
managed by their dad. And it's kind of seems like I'm
like, there must be something more.
Like, it seems like happened really quickly.
Joe is 15, Kevin is 17, Nick is 12.
And they record their first single called Please Be Mine in
2005, and then we're signed by Columbia Records.
Wait, I don't know if you know this.
Do you know why the 4th Jonas Brother wasn't a part of it Is
he's. Way younger.
Is he? Yeah, I forgot to even mention
him. Oh, my gosh.
I don't know. No.
Oh yeah, They have a little brother Frankie, too, but he's
like way younger, OK. I wasn't sure what the age
difference was I feel. Like nowadays he could be
involved if he wanted to, but he just set off on a different
course. I think so he I think he makes
his own music though. Oh.
Why don't they have him be part of the Jonas Brothers?
I know. He like, could be, I don't know
if they think like it's too late, like we've established
ourselves. When they once they came back
the second time, he they could. Yeah, yeah.
Now, I mean, now it's too late because they've already come
back as only three of them. Maybe he didn't want to be.
He's a lot younger, though. Like I want to say, Kate, he's
like your age or younger. Yeah.
But he could like, sing and perform.
Oh yeah. Oh yeah, Now it's like they.
Still hang with. Us.
But I actually do watch. Claim to fame.
Yeah. He's on Frankie and Kevin, yeah.
We kind of have a Gemma's brothers situation because
there's a fourth in our group, Shannon, my sister, but she's
not on the podcast and. That's her choice.
Yeah. Really, it kind of is.
She doesn't really care. She did get upset when she found
out you were joining. Yeah, but I feel she was upset
at the same time. She doesn't want to be honest.
She doesn't. Listen.
She doesn't listen. Whereas you listened to every
episode. You've already said this.
You made us social media posts, sometimes just out of your own
passion. I run.
So you got promoted. Yeah.
You ran the YouTube. Yeah.
So you were promoted? Yeah, yeah, she's like the
Frankie. Shannon wants to like, dive in,
start doing stuff, by all means. Good thing she doesn't listen.
Here's caller the Frankie. A lot of people like Frankie
though 'cause he's like more. He's kind of funny and stuff.
I don't know. Probably more normal in a way.
Yeah, but he's also like never known life normal 'cause he
always grew up with his brothers being celebrities too.
So then they'd be in touring as opening acts for Kelly Clarkson,
Jesse McCartney, the Backstreet Boys, The Cheetah Girls and Ali
and AJ. And Joe actually dated AJ from
Ali and AJ when they're really young and AJ has said that Joe
was her first kiss. Wow, I didn't know that.
Very sweet. So then in 2006 they released
their first album called It's About Time, which included their
cover of the song Year 3000. Bob, that's a cover.
Yeah, that's a cover. Of whose song I?
Think it's a British? What?
Oh my gosh, I hate. You hate not knowing that
something to cover. When other people don't know
that a song is a cover. But then even more I hate when I
don't know a song is a cover. So that's.
Really, the time I'm learning that songs are covered.
I know, but then I get mad when the people don't know.
Like you don't know because sometimes I like the original
and. Then I get that.
I get that. It's from a band called Busted
from 2003. I'd be so pissed if, well, I
mean I'm sure they make money. They got money.
Yeah, maybe they get like a small.
Do they though? Profit.
Yeah, they must. They have to if they I.
Don't know if you just like buy it once and then you that's as
much money as you get or if they get a small bit pending.
Wow. That was a hit like whoever
selected that song to cover that was a good idea.
They. Kind of fucked.
It from obscurity, at least in America.
We didn't know that song, no. And now it's like solely a Jones
Brothers. Song, but it wasn't really a hit
until so it was like like they did kids They well they covered
it and then their music like appeared in MTV and Nickelodeon
and on Cartoon Network, but it didn't actually the album itself
like didn't make a lot of money. They actually did also also
write a song for Disney Channel for the TV show American Dragon.
Jake Long. Do you remember that?
I remember that. Yeah.
So they wrote the theme song for that.
Oh. But their album itself didn't
sell well, so they got dropped by Columbia and then picked up
by Disney. And then Disney started playing
the year 3000 music video all the time.
And so that's when it became a hit.
Oh. That makes sense.
That's kind of interesting because they do kind of really
associate with them with Disney, but they weren't originally
Disney. No, I think they're country was
writing that theme song for that TV show.
And it it didn't quite, we just rolled with it, but it didn't
quite make sense. It was like, what is this band?
Yeah. It is a they didn't.
Even have a show or anything I know.
Yeah, then they have a. Show.
Yeah. It's so true.
I I'm just not thinking. I don't know, I didn't really
fuck with them. I didn't like me neither.
I especially, and I feel bad saying this, but like, yeah,
'cause we didn't know of them. It's like, why do you find this
band? I fucked up their music but I
feel like I didn't care about them personally.
Just like, Oh yeah, yeah, I didn't fuck with that.
Yeah, it was a hit. It was great.
It was amazing. Yeah, it did feel.
Forced upon us and it did. I didn't like it.
This is mean to say, but Joe, when he would sing, would like
tilt his head to the side and like, oh God.
And I did not like give for some reason, like I didn't know this
term back then, but it gave me the ick.
Like I just didn't like it. So yeah.
Then they were signed with Disney and then released their
self-titled album Jonas Brothers, which included the
songs SOS and Hold on. And then 2008 they starred in
the D com hit of the summer Camp Rock, which I didn't love Camp
Rock keeper. I didn't.
I was not a camp. Rock I did like a ton of people
from my grade love camp Rock. Like, I remember them being
obsessed. I I didn't, yeah.
No, OK, I know. There was no.
Responsible. Yeah, I know they're the same
net work, but I feel like it was like you're either a Camp Rock
kid or a High School Musical kid, and I was a High School
Musical kid. I.
Think a lot of people were both but just 'cause they wanted Camp
Rock to be as. Good as.
Classical. Musical, but it wasn't.
I like school rock. Me too.
Or. Not Doggy Rock.
It's not because. This is the rock thing.
I like rock, but something about yeah I didn't like.
It, I feel like, I don't know. I didn't really care about Demi
Lovato, I thought. That the Jonas Brothers acting
in Cam Brock was so bad. It was like terrible acting, and
that made me not like them. Yeah, Joe is like the main guy
in it, but it's like, yeah, they're terrible actors.
So bad. I.
Mean Nick's not bad. Yeah, but him and Kevin were
just kind of like the goofy brothers that like.
If you think about it, Disney Channel has such a old fashioned
model. It's so like.
It's like a video system. Yeah, like 1930s, nineteen, you
know, through the 50s where they would have a singer that they'd
make me in movies and just show up in all these random
productions. Yeah.
And it's funny when they're children, too.
It's like you have to sing and act.
Yeah. Have to do and dance.
Yeah. You have to be a triple threat,
yeah. Literally.
But yeah, what was even the story of Camp Brock like?
Denny's character was there on scholarship, and she didn't want
everyone. To know she wasn't she wasn't
there on scholarship. Her mom worked as like the chef.
So she just. Didn't want people to know that.
Yeah, She didn't want people to know that.
And she also just wanted to be like the best singer and the
star and the Jonas Brothers. I don't think that's what
they're called in the movie. They had gone to that camp
before and then became big and then for some reason.
And then Joe hears her voice. They.
Had to like, come back to the camp and yeah, he hears her
voice and they're like. This is real.
This is me. But they he didn't know that it
was her. It was kind of like an enemies
to lovers in a way. But I again I don't.
Yeah, So. Yeah.
And at this time, oh, wait. So the Jonas Brothers are really
rising in their popularity and fame.
That summer, they also debuted at #1 on the Billboard 200 chart
with their album A Little Bit Longer, and they became the
youngest band ever to appear on the cover of Rolling Stone.
And is that? The album with love bug or is
that another? I think so, yeah.
Love Bug again? That's like their Best Song.
Yeah, and they were the first band to ever have three albums
simultaneously on the Billboard 10 Top Ten at the same time, if
you include the Camp Rock soundtrack.
OK. If you can.
OK, OK. It's it's impressive.
So him and Taylor. It's October 2008 and Taylor
begins opening up for the Jonas Brothers on their Burning Up
tour, playing songs she played songs from her debut album
self-titled. I thought Taylor was a pretty
big star at this point too. Like tear drops on my guitar.
She was. Maybe she wasn't the biggest but
I thought she'd be bigger then opening for the Jonas.
Run. Yeah, but she's a new star.
Yeah. But I thought maybe she'd be
opening for, yeah, maybe like Kelly Clarkson or something,
like the ones that they were opening.
Yeah, before. She was young, though.
So. They were young.
It's like a teenage. They were young.
I know. I feel like it makes sense I
guess. Yeah, but they've had like, you
know, a movie. And like this is her first
album. So I mean, it makes sense for
her to be on the same tour with another teenager.
Yes. Yes, rather than like with an
adult who might be more famous. But it's so true, Yeah.
And I'm sure their concerts were really big at this point.
Like, they actually were filming their concert movie at this
point, their 3D movie, 3 D So at this time, she's 18, he's 19.
And rumors start swirling that they might be dating at this
time, but they're denying it. Wait.
What was the age difference? Just one year, 18.
OK, so Joe tells Ryan Seacrest in an interview.
She's a great girl. I think anybody would love to go
on a date with her. Meanwhile, meanwhile, Taylor
tells People magazine. We're all friends.
He's an amazing guy and I think anybody would be lucky to be
dating her. They both say like the.
Same. So in September, they're
photographed sitting next to each other at the MTV Music
Awards, which publicly fuels speculation even more.
But then in November, Taylor goes on Ellen to promote her
sophomore album, Fearless. In an In an interview, Ellen
asks Taylor about dating Joe. Some of the songs on here, all
of the songs on here are about boys and love, yes.
Anyone in particular? There are a couple people that
they're about, actually. Like maybe somebody like, you
know, that guy. There's one that's about that
guy. Uh huh.
That that guy's not in my life anymore.
Unfortunately, I know. That's not I'm sorry to hear.
That, that's Ouch. That's an Ouch.
Yeah. Wow.
Now I know the Ouch thing's with you because I've you've told me
you drive by their houses a lot. You you told me you do that to
ex boyfriends. Is that going to happen?
He's got a lot of security guards.
They're big, so probably not. All right, but but you get to
write a song. That's the thing about being.
Yes. I got a last minute recording
session like right when it was like like that.
Really. Yeah, Like that.
Yeah. And so.
Well, I mean, that's a good thing though, because it's kind
of like, you know, my label let me record that song right before
the album had to be done. That's on here now.
Yeah, it's completely on there. What's the name of the song
that's about that? It's called forever and always.
Yeah, is that sarcasm? Forever and always.
Definitely, definitely. Now and and, but that must be
really hard because you as opposed to someone who's just in
a relationship, you can avoid seeing him, but like.
He's on like. You see him everywhere.
Sharpeners and T-shirts. Yes, yeah, I did not realize
pencil sharpeners, but he's. There's also a doll.
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, I bet you have that with some pins or something.
Probably. But now seriously, that must be
really hard to to. Can you be friendly?
Is it OK? We haven't talked since,
actually. So it's like, yeah, but you know
what? Someday I'm going to find
somebody really, really great who's right for me.
Yes, you are. And you're.
You're 18 years old. You're, you're, of course you're
going to find you're going to find about 40 people that are
right for you. What about Nick?
We'll go for another brother. I mean, why don't you?
That would get him back if you go for one of the brothers.
Oh wow. Yeah, or Kevin.
I mean, there's two other brothers to go to.
Oh. My gosh.
Yeah, that's not right, Right. Probably not.
OK, but you're actually thinking of it.
You're considering it, aren't you?
I can see that in your face, but no, you will find somebody
because you are a fantastic person.
You have a great personality, you're just adorable, you're
talented. You've got you've got so much
going for you. Thank you And I know it still
hurts no matter what and but I'm sorry to hear that because I
thought that y'all were still together but.
Oh, it's OK. OK.
It's all right. I'm cool.
You know what it's like? It's like when I find that
person that that is, is right for me and is he'll be
wonderful. And when I look at that person,
I'm not even going to be able to remember the boy who broke up
with me over the phone in 25 seconds when I was 18.
Sorry, awesome 28 broke up. On the phone.
Yeah, it was like a record, I think for how quick it was.
Like it was like I looked at the call log, it was like 27
seconds. That's.
Got to be a record. Oh, boy, I'm sorry to hear that.
And so are the millions and millions of other people that
just heard that are going to be so mad at him right now.
All right, we have to take a break.
And we're going to talk more with Taylor.
We'll be right back. Elephant's face.
You got the scoop of the. Lifetime.
It's like so much to say. I have so many.
Thoughts. Me too.
First of all, wait how long did they date?
Three months? Three months?
OK, good, I thought. I thought I was missing
something like. What I felt like it's a.
Party over. There's like one siding.
Oh my gosh. As quick as she and Harry dated.
Yeah. Into Gyllenhaal.
Yeah, three months. OK, that's so quick.
I have so many thoughts. First of all, Ellen looked
shocked when she said that about the phone call.
Yeah, I really don't think Ellen forced her to say she.
Said she said. I expected you guys to still be
together. I know she's like always about
this guy, I felt. Awkward that she brought it up,
yeah. But it ended up being good for
her. I think it's for who better with
scoop for Ellen. Yeah.
Oh my gosh, Taylor was so open and just so willing to share.
So. But it was cute.
It because it did kind of remind me of like when you just go
through a breakup or something, you just like have to get it off
your chest like you just like want everyone.
Oh my God, you'll tell anyone. Yeah, and it's like therapeutic
because then the other person's like, you know, like you're so
young, you're gonna find someone and everyone's like, you got
this girl. Like.
Yeah, that person sucks. Yeah, and you're like.
Yeah. I've done that before where I've
just been like randomly in the mood to tell people.
Like when they ask I'm just, I'm just like no, I just got dumped.
Yeah. I'm like, so open though you
would not catch a modern celebrity saying.
No. No, it's why it's so refreshing.
It is. I remember back then though,
because that was the age when everyone like Miley and Nick or
like all these people, they're like, are they dating?
Are they not Christian and Rob or whatever and it was nice to
have a celebrity just like tell you exactly yeah, every just
tell you it you know I. Thought she was going to be coy
about what song it was and then people just figured it out.
But yeah, she's like, it's forever and after forever and
always forever and always. But I feel like This is why she
did get the reputation that she did and so we can't pretend like
Taylor like didn't like. I think actually her saying this
made her way more famous. Yes.
I don't even think like the Kanye.
I made that bit famous. I think this made her famous.
Yeah, I. Think because she said a song
was about somebody. Yeah, especially people were,
yeah, fans of the Jones brothers, and maybe they're not
fans of her. They're going to listen to that
song. Yeah, and be.
Like what did she say about Joe? Yes, well.
Even someone that's watching this might not have had any
interest in her music, but now they might feel like, oh I'm
kind of curious to hear. That's.
True, it's. So intriguing.
Yeah. It was really smart of her.
It's like, whoa. And they're like invested in the
story now. I feel kind of bad that well,
are you going to talk about is there like backlash or anything
or or not really? Or like.
Just the reputation. Do you feel bad for?
JoJo Ness no for for Taylor saying this.
Oh. Yeah, because it's like her
first boyfriend. I don't know if there really was
backlash for that. I think like it.
It was the start of her reputation for being like boy
crazy and stuff. And.
Actually, I kind of feel like she was playing into that
character a little bit back in that point because like she
still wrote country music and at that point, I think maybe even
now, but I'm not sure. It was kind of like a trope with
country women to be like the Crazy Ex-girlfriend.
So. True.
With like Miranda Lambert or like Carrie Underwood, it's like
I got a shotgun. I'm gonna drive by your house
like. So.
And I feel like that's why, like Ellen even said, like you, you
know, you told me you drive by their houses a lot, right?
Like, you know, I feel like. You think that was true?
No, I don't think so. Yeah, Taylor even reacted kind
of weirdly to that. Like, yeah.
But like, you know, like with picture to burn and stuff, like
she's like really trying to be like the vengeful angry
ex-girlfriend and like playing into that.
You're right, that was such a trope in country music.
And I feel kind of bad though that this was the start of her
negative reputation because she is only 18.
Yeah, you don't even know what you're doing.
I know. And I really feel like she was
just looking for support. And like also, she was asked
about a breakup. She was asked about a guy.
How is she gonna respond, you know?
And she's gonna write about her real life relationships.
I I've never had a problem with that.
And it's not her fault the relationship only lasted 3
months and ended in such the way that it did.
So you can't be too mad at her for like, writing a song about
this relationship. Like of course she's gonna write
about that relationship. But there are definitely
consequences when you're a public figure to air stuff like
that out. True, that's why people often
don't. But I asked you guys if someone
really breaks your heart in a relationship, do you feel
justified in trash talking them to other people?
And 75% said yes I'm speaking my truth, but 25% said no, I prefer
to keep it to myself. I think yes, but if there were
some really red flags that you just totally ignored and never
brought up to your friends before I would keep that to
myself so I don't seem like a loser putting up with them for
so long. Like actually they peed on me
like 3 months into their relationship but I kept being
with them until this point. Like I don't know, like I if it
was something where later in the relationship there was like a
red flag in a straw broke. Why has that happened to?
You no, but I, I feel like I keep seeing stuff like that
online where people unload about all these previous red flags
that happened in their relationship and then their
friends are like, why were you in that relationship for so
long? So maybe you would just.
Yeah. That to yourself, because I
think you're a little bit ashamed that you were in that
relationship. You also should be pretty sure
you're not going to get back together with that.
Yeah. And you tell everybody the
whole. I feel that does happen, too.
Like people trash talk and then they're like, we're back
together. It's like you stole me all this
shit. Yeah.
I know. Oh my gosh.
Yeah, that's. Like, I don't think you should
get back together. Yeah.
And then? Not at you for being mad at
them. I don't know.
Oh my gosh, has that happened to me?
Yes. Where you spend an entire
weekend with your friends dissecting the X and talking
about how horrible it all is and Oh my gosh, now you're in a
better place. And then they get back together.
Yeah. But I guess that's getting a
little far away from the question.
What did our listeners say? So, Yanika said, Venting yes,
trash talking no. I used to keep relationship
issues to myself. I do not recommend that.
But now I prefer talking rationally about problems and
learning from them rather than just letting my emotions take
over and finding myself in a spiral of hating someone I
deeply care for. I've had my heart broken before.
Trash talking might help for a moment, but having a deeper
conversation definitely helps getting through the breakup in a
healthier way. Jamie said.
Definitely have trash chalked in the past.
Mainly just venting if I was dumped and complaining if I was
the dumper as of late. Now that I'm older I'll talk
about what happened with a few very close friends, but try not
to speak I'll of someone if I do to really love them or if I did
really love them just because now I feel like part of letting
loving is letting go. I do feel that if they were
trashed to you, like cheated etcetera, it is really
therapeutic to trash talk them. Sonny said.
Part of me wants to be the mature adult and say no, but
I've caught myself trashing an ex almost as if to ease the
pain. Victoria said.
Depends on the definition of trash talk.
Are we venting and letting our feelings out, or are we getting
out of our way to willfully spew negativity to anyone who will
listen? Am I venting to close friends or
chatting with coworkers? Close friends, we'll hear it out
and then some coworkers might hear I'm going through a breakup
and it's horrible, but I wouldn't share the rage and
negativity with people who aren't closest to me.
And Heather said I feel like if somebody really breaks my heart
in a relationship, I would be too devastated to talk about it.
Honestly, the only exes I've trashed talked are the ones that
I have broken up with. And it wasn't trash talk.
When you think about it, everything I said was true.
And Andrea said yeah, especially if I got dumped with no warning,
it's fair game. I think if they did something
really despicable, it's fine to say something.
Yeah, you are just speaking your truth.
I've often felt like I am somewhat of an oversharer
because I do want to be close to people and I feel like.
That's the best way. Yeah, I don't, I don't like
holding myself back. I don't like to be mysterious,
you know, like I'll just tell someone if someone wants to
know. Yeah, but I definitely also have
been guilty of like talking about a situation too much and
people probably OK, we're done with this.
I think I think it's the worst when I feel like we've all
probably heard of a guy that does this, that just like
randomly, it could be a girl too, but for some reason
picturing a guy that just starts like texting people just being
like yo watch out for so and so. Like she's crazier.
It's probably more of a small town thing.
But like when people would go out of their way to just
randomly like tell the world that so and so or they would
make it like their Facebook status or something and use
names. I think that's when you're like,
really caught. People definitely made tick
tocks and stuff like that too. Yeah, I mean it's.
Showing face like if you're from the Atlanta area, do not trust
this guy. I think that's too far.
Even if someone. Did do something like so-called
bad like cheat? Like it's going to be hard for
them to like restart or I don't know.
I would never post something on social media about someone.
I know I would. Never do that like that.
Makes you look crazy to do it. OK, but isn't that just what
Taylor Swift kind of does? I know no, but it's true.
So now we I guess we would pivot I but.
She was asked, she was asked by Ellen and then she told the
differences. She was on TV, but I.
Mean. I did one time talk poorly sort
of about an ex. It's just going back so far in
high school. Also like a three month
relationship in hindsight, like so inconsequential.
But I felt bad later because like people talk, you know, in
high school and people like had heard what I said and that I
said that like it was like crazy.
And then I felt bad because other girls were like, people
talked and were like, oh, we heard he was crazy, you know,
because of me. And I felt kind of bad.
Yeah, 'cause then it might get back to the other person.
I think if you're heartbroken by someone and they know that
you're like going around town complaining about them, it
doesn't help yourself. No, that's not gonna help you
get them. Back the best thing you can do
to win them over is to like not talk about it and just be like
oh like I don't care. Like obviously them to your
friends but like don't let it get back to them that you are
even thinking about it. Yes.
I definitely don't tell random strangers or Co workers.
I mostly just stick to friends and family and I guess this
podcast because I have talked about it before.
Yeah, I know. I have.
Talked. About strangers.
That's not strange. Specific details, Would you say
name or name? Yeah, yeah.
It is. I do like, like when an older
adult gives you advice after a heartbreak or something.
Yeah, it is kind of nice. But you don't know where those
people are. They're like back in my day.
Yeah, Jimmy. It is nice to have, like, a
sleepover with your friends and, like, have a situation, like,
play it back and then like, yes, yeah, you know, you have like,
an army of people who hate the person.
Yeah, yeah, an army like to back you up and make you think like,
OK, I'm not crazy. Yet for.
Seeing this the way that I saw it.
Have you ever felt kind of the opposite?
I have. Where you don't really want to
talk too much about them because it feels like it says something
about you that you were with someone that.
That's what I was saying. I said some people don't want to
talk about it because they'll reveal like 'cause.
Yeah, I guess. But like, I've had that happen
where like, my friends are quick to be like, you're too good for
him or something. And I'm like, OK, like, I don't
know. It doesn't really help.
Like that makes me feel bad about myself for some reason.
Yeah, or like I never liked. Yeah.
Oh, I've had. Yeah, I've heard that before.
I never liked him. Like what?
You've been keeping this a secret the whole time.
Yeah. And it makes me feel like I
don't, you don't trust me here. I don't know.
Yeah. Weird.
Thankfully I've never had that happen, but.
Yeah, but it is definitely amplified with a celebrity.
Oh yeah, that is kind of crazy. But now the whole world knows
about this and paints him in a bad light.
In the in the phone call. Thing I know.
Yeah, I will. Say 5 seconds.
I'll say this, if you haven't dated for very long, I don't
think there's anything wrong with breaking up over a phone
call. Yeah, I mean I.
Don't like, I don't want to be in person.
Like if you're breaking to break up with me, I don't want you to
see me cry. I don't know you that well.
Like I would rather just hang up the phone and go cry.
Like, I don't want you to like, walk me home.
Or something. Maybe they're long distance?
Oh yeah, totally. Like, what if he was still like,
is he gonna wait? Yeah, I.
Used a phone call, you know, phone calls.
Not that bad, no? It was a phone call.
Yeah, I know. I'm saying like it's better than
a text or an e-mail or yeah. And I kind of see the point of
it being short because do you really want to, like, get to the
point? Yeah.
And then be like, OK, we're parting ways.
We don't need to drag this out. I kind of see it.
Yeah, I went out with someone for like 2 months.
It was pretty short in retrospect, but I really, really
liked the person. And I thought that was going to
be like your boy. I know, I know I was really into
him. And then I could like feel him
like slipping away and I just like sent a text like, hey, I'm
kind of picking up a vibe. And he like sent a whole text
back and he said like, do you want to talk about it in person?
Talk about it over the phone? And I was like, no, I'm all set
because I'm like, I don't want you to like you're ending it
with me. So I don't need to see you
anyway, you know? I was actually in a 2 1/2 year
relationship and that ended over text.
It wasn't me. It wasn't me who was the dumper,
just FYI. But I mean, it was the
conversation that we've been having for a while, like in
person and over the phone, but then it just actually came to an
end over text. I'm not too mad about that
because I kind of get it at some point.
I don't wanna cry in front of you or something.
Yeah, you know. Well sometimes it's just harder
to do that stuff in person. You look at the other persons
face and you might, yeah, not be strong enough so.
One time I did dump someone in person, it was at a Panera,
which by the way, Panera is the best way.
It's so funny. Shannon also did I.
Told her that I told her to go to Panera.
Panera. It's the best place to go.
We. Have another relationship.
We came in and they were like, do you want to get food?
I was like, no, let's just sit down.
I think I said like, we're breaking up and then I left.
I didn't even get food. I don't know if they got food,
but you just do it. You just RIP off the Band-Aid
and then that's it. Oh my gosh, really?
None of my relationships have ended in person.
I don't think really. Yeah, I think they've always
been over the phone or yeah, once was a voice message sent to
me. I know that's not happy with
that, but yeah, it's kind of scary too to end it.
Yeah, OK. Go back to the guy I said was
crazy. I was scared.
To bring up with him in person, Like genuinely scared.
I remember. That did you?
Wait, how did you press a phone? Call.
That makes sense. Yeah, that's funny.
I think that in this day and age a call is OK.
Yeah. Yeah, I think most of the time
when people break up in person, it's not necessarily.
Sometimes it's not planned. There's like a fight and then
you have a breakup. Yeah.
And then someone's like, I'm done.
Serious, whereas like a phone call is more premeditated.
Definitely. But now if someone brings me to
Panera, like Zach, my boyfriend brings me to Panera, I'll be
pretty nervous. Maybe we could have them sponsor
as like the best place to break up with someone.
Yeah, not small because it's. Comfort food too, so you can
stick around. Yeah, they can stick around and
get their. Get it to go.
Cozy. Yeah, exactly.
But it's also you're not like waiting for the waiter to come.
Exactly. It's not, yeah, but it's not
like McDonald's like that Feels a little trashy.
It's a step up from McDonald's. So it's not too expensive for
your last date if you do choose to get food.
I know, I remember Shannon said She broke up with someone at
Panera and then he didn't even eat his meal.
OK, that's why you have to break up before they get the food.
Before you order, yes. Oh, so you're.
Just. You're just using their seats.
Yes, that's why I did. At least you could order.
Yeah, and then do it. But don't like order, get the
food and then do it. OK, Yeah.
Because then you're stuck having a meal unless you're going to be
like, no, I don't want anything. And then that's weird bounce
while they're having like bread bowl Mac and cheese or
something. And.
Soup, soup. Okay.
Okay so yeah, that song Forever and always that Taylor talked
about she has a line. You look me in the eye and told
me you loved me wow I wonder did he really say that?
I wonder I. Would assume that'd be weird to
make up. I wrote it did seem like Taylor
was overreacting to a breakup for three months, but if he
actually did say he loved her and promised forever and always
as said in the song, that would be very intense and hurt a lot.
Jeez, it's it's so much like her Jake Gyllenhaal relationship.
I know, crazy she. Had that happen again.
Like a year. Later, like this whirlwind
romance in a couple months, she. Thinks she's true love.
When was Jake Gyllenhaal? That was like 2000.
I think I I mixed up the John Mayer 12, maybe because I did
John Mayer. She was 19.
Yeah, so it was a few years later.
It is a very relatable song, like she sings like about
waiting by the phone and waiting for him to call.
And it's agony and he doesn't, and he's losing interest.
Yeah, that's. Something around this time,
Taylor posted a video to her Myspace holding the Joe Jonas
doll. That's the way I'm like you.
See this one. One even comes with a with a.
Phone. See, so he can.
Break up with other dolls. Stay away from from him, OK?
That's crazy. That's a little, yeah.
That's if she holds like a blonde Barbie up to the is it
her or is it is like her Barbie? Or I think it's just a blonde
random Barbie. Blonde Barbie up to the Joe
Jonas Barbie to stay away from him.
Yeah, which again, I feel like is like, maybe trying to be like
that crazy ex-girlfriend trope. Yeah, But if you're Joe, you
would be like, this girl's crazy.
I know. And at this point, Joe has now
already moved on. He's in a relationship with the
actress Camila Bell. Oh, we remember her.
Yeah, because she's also photographed with Rob around
this time period. We remember.
We hated her. I thought she was just trying to
be with the most famous man. Yeah.
It may be like she heard like people were really good and like
setting her up with these guys. Yeah, maybe.
She appeared in his music video Love Bug that September.
Yeah, and he was still with Taylor at that point when they
did meet, so it is interesting. That often happens.
And they were linked immediately after him and Taylor broke up,
Taylor reportedly told Us Weekly.
They've been together since we broke up.
That's why we broke up, because he met her.
That really hurts. So he was like I love you, and
then he met this girl and then he made a little psycho.
Yeah, I know. I mean, if he really did say I
love you and we'll be together forever and always like that is
crazy to then just like meet someone else and then break up
with her. Like his emotions are all over
the way. Smell.
Sorry, do you know anything about the promise rings?
Wait, I forgot to mention that. Oh my God I'm sorry.
That was at the end of my notes. They were very famous for having
purity rings at this point. For for like waiting till
marriage. To have sex.
'Cause I was gonna say maybe
this wishy washy and like I love you like intensity was because
he was so Christian. Yeah, that's a good point,
Caitlyn, because. Off for Camila Belle.
No, he. Actually took it off for Ashley
Greene. Wow, OK, so it wasn't, I mean,
he could just be lying I guess, but I was going to say it wasn't
because he thought you could like, sleep with Camila Belle or
something. OK, I feel so invasive right
now. No, but I will say like his
brother Kevin got married pretty young and then so I I wonder if
people who are often waiting till marriage kind of rush into
relationship. And they do.
Yeah. No offense to all the Mormons
out there, but they're constantly getting married.
Wicked. Super quickly and like they
want, especially if. Not just Mormons.
I know, but that's like a stereotype about them.
There's all those videos about BYU and the interview, like
what's the quickest somebody you've ever seen get engaged and
they're like 2 weeks. Wow.
A month like. Where's like, I feel like if
you're an 18 year old girl, I mean not a stereotype, but like
you might not be like as in a rush to like sleep with somebody
right away. But a guy I could see being
really hormonal and like really wanting to like find the ones
super quickly so you can like finally do it maybe.
I mean, maybe he had something before, but Taylor was the first
relationship and he was like the first girl that he was like
really into or something. And then he met Camilla and he
was like the same thing. And he was like, oh, maybe it's
not love. Yeah, yeah, he did date AJ
Mashaka too, but yeah, that could be it.
That's probably a big part of it.
I didn't even think about that, Kate.
So then Joe took to his Myspace and he set the record straight.
He said several things. I will state with all my heart,
I never cheated on a girlfriend. It might make someone feel
better to assume or imply I have been unfaithful, but it is
simply not true. Maybe there were reasons for a
breakup. Maybe the heart moved on.
Perhaps feelings changed. I am truly saddened that
anything could potentially cause you to think less of me, he
added. For those who have expressed
concern over the 27 second phone call, I called to discuss
feelings with the other person. Those feelings were obviously
not well received. I did not end the conversation,
someone else did. Phone calls can only last as
long as the other person on the other line is willing to talk.
So maybe she hung up on him. Yes, which is bending the truth
a little. Bit yeah, it's crazy, and that's
true. Yeah, it's the quickest breakup,
but yeah, maybe he was like, I don't know, maybe we should
break up. And then she's like, OK, hang
up. Yeah.
Like it could have gone on for long.
Maybe she wanted him to call back.
She's like, OK, I'm done with this conversation now.
I'm waiting by the phone and he's not calling me back.
That is so misleading to say it was such a short conversation.
Makes it sound like he just didn't care.
If she's the one that ended it, that is.
That's just lying. Yeah, but also that's not true.
He said it can only last as long as the other person on the line.
No, you can end the call. Yeah, like him and.
Yeah, but he's implying she hung up.
Yeah. Which is really misleading.
Yeah. But I wonder how you would end
it really quickly if the other person doesn't hang up?
Like, would you just say, hey, I want to break up and then.
All right, bye. About this, I think we should
just be friends, OK? 27 seconds is a short time to
get into it. I think she's going.
To say like. Hey, I'll talk to you.
Hi. How are you?
Hey, I think we should break up but and then to naturally.
I also wonder, maybe it was like a texting conversation and then
there was like a quick phone call to confirm like, OK, this
is it. Yeah, and maybe she's like,
you're seriously breaking up with me.
Yeah, well, I'm hanging up on you or something.
I wonder like how long it took till they were even official.
It's like 3 months but pretty quick.
But they're on tour. They're on tour.
Yeah, what a roller coaster. So awkwardly, December on New
Year's Eve, Taylor and Joe were both guests on Nick Clarke Rock
and New Year's Eve, with Ryan Seacrest performing separately,
and Taylor actually performed forever and always with Joe
there in attendance. And then when the ball dropped,
they're standing on opposite sides of the stage of Ryan
Seacrest. And.
It's like really cold. Outside I did that on.
Purpose so awkward and it's like the whole world knows that they
have drama already. So then in 2009, the Jonas
Brothers released the song Much Better, which seemed to say that
Camilla Bell is much better than Taylor.
That's that's unnecessary. I know.
And it was a bad song. I didn't like him.
I don't even know it. The song starts out by saying I
got a Rep for Breaking Hearts. Now I'm done with Superstars and
all the tears on her guitar. I'm not better.
That's so obviously Taylor. And then he says.
But now I see everything I'd ever need is the girl right in
front of me. She's much better.
That's just mean. I know I mean.
She did kind of start a feud, I guess because of all the public.
Cashing. On him.
And she wrote a song. Yeah, I guess that makes sense.
But like if I would say normally if you break up with someone,
you shouldn't be talking all of. Them it does, it doesn't look.
Just take the yellow just like. Hmm.
What did I say? Turning the knife for what's?
The phrase. Yeah, twisting the knife.
Twisting the knife, Yeah. Salt.
Salt in the wound, yeah. You do something shitty, they do
something back. You don't do another shitty
thing back. This is turning into a few.
Yeah, it is. And then Taylor also in 2009
November she hosted SNL and she mentions Joe in her monologue.
I like writing songs about douchebags who cheat on me, but
I'm not going to say that in my monologue.
I like writing their names into songs so they're ashamed to go
in public, but I'm not going to say that in my monologue.
La La La La La La La La. This is my musical monologue.
You might think I'd bring up Joe, that guy who broke up with
me on the phone, but I'm not going to mention him in my
monologue. Hey Joe, I'm doing real well
tonight. I'm hosting SNL in my monologue
LA. La La ha ha ha ha.
Ha ha ha ha ha. Wow, she's pissed.
It's also very. Juvenile.
Well, yeah, 'cause this seems like a year later.
And also, it's just like, get over it.
I don't know, like you're singing this during your SNL
monologue, You're bringing this up.
Is it a year later? It's more than a year.
Let's see, when did they break up?
I think it was like, oh, she went on Ellen in November 2008,
and then this was November 2009. So it's like a year after she
told the world about it. But it could be, you know, a
year. Or a little.
Or a little more after. Yeah, this is after the whole
Kanye thing. Like Taylor's really becoming a
bigger star now. Very deeply upset about that, I
know. And then in 2010, October,
Taylor Taylor released her third album, Speak Now.
Okay. I mean, I, I feel for her.
Like, yeah, I can relate, but I also wouldn't, I would not dare
make it so known that yeah, I'm that upset about something a
year later. Yeah, but I guess when you're on
SNL, you're like trying to think of things to include in the
monologue and like, because then she brings up Taylor.
She says, like Taylor Lautner, who she's rumored to be dating
at this time. What could she?
Mostly say about. Her she brings up Kanye.
Oh, so the next verses are about.
Others. Yeah, It's like, if you're
wondering if I might be dating the werewolf from Twilight, you
know, I don't. She like, says, I'm not going to
comment on that. And then she like, blows a kiss.
OK, it's she's like. All right, at least she
technically has moved on. Yes, yeah, she has a new guy.
Yeah. Looks like she's not over it,
but she moved on. Yes, still we're moving at this
point. Supposedly the John Mayer stuff
is also. Yeah, exactly.
Is it? So it's yeah.
Or that other guy or whatever. Mm hmm, I don't know.
Maybe she's just playing it up. I think she is, yeah.
OK, then she can't. I think she's playing it up
because it's something that the people at home know about.
So it's like you have to kind of appeal to like what like most
people associate with you. So in 2010 October, Taylor
Taylor released her third studio album, Speak Now, and she seems
to respond to the song much better with the cleverly titled
song Better Than Revenge. So it's like much better.
Better than revenge. So the word better and this is a
song directed at Camila Belle, who Taylor accused of stealing
her boyfriend. And the hidden message because
Taylor used to write like a hidden message in her songs was
you thought I Yes, Yeah, she wrote.
You thought I would forget. And I should mention that I
didn't realize that's Camila Belle and Joe Jonas only dated
for like 7 months. So they were a really short
relationship like at this. Point longer than theirs.
Yes, longer than theirs, but at this point Camilla Bell and Joe
Jonas are broken up. So this like what song is going
after her? Like she's like, I'm not even
dating that guy anymore. I'm crying about the break of
two now I can. Remind still.
Playing a song out like it's its own work of.
Remind Music. But.
Of the Olivia Rodrigo and Sabrina Carpenter thing in her
song 'cause I Liked a Boy, she said.
We were all we were already broken up when this all went
down. Yeah, like why are you bringing
this up? I don't think it's a, it has to
be like fitting into a timeline. It's just, it's this thing you
wrote and then you decide to put it.
Out there, I thought it just. But I think you don't need to
have the hidden message 'cause I'm guessing by the time she put
the message in the lyric book, yeah, yeah, probably already
over right. So that that seems a.
Little weird. So just like you had a song on
Fearless about him and then it's the next album you have another
song about. You have so many other
relationships to pick from at this point.
And then, yeah, the song sings. She's not a St. and she's not
what she thinks. She's an actress.
Whoa. She's better known for the
things that she does on the mattress.
That's what that's about. Yeah.
Which is like we suspect. I know, I know, but I mean, they
didn't even have sex technically 'cause he's a but maybe they had
a different, like, what is sex? You know?
I feel like I shouldn't even be saying that.
No, soon she's going to find stealing other people's toys on
the playground won't make her any friends.
She should keep in mind. She should keep in mind there's
nothing I do better than revenge.
But she said she. Was better than revenge.
No, there's nothing I do better than revenge.
And she said she she really paints Camilla as like a preppy,
snobby mean girl. Like she says like she lives her
life like it's a party and I'm on the list and she's on the
list. Like, she looks at me like I'm a
trend and she's so over it. They wouldn't teach you in prep
school, but it's up to me. No amount of vintage dresses
gives you dignity. Just pull that from my memory.
Wow. I feel kind of bad for Camilla
at this point because Taylor is a bigger celebrity and true, but
we didn't like her either. But I wonder if we were
influenced by this. Maybe.
We just didn't want her with Rob.
No crazy Twilight fans. And flash forward in 2016 when
Katie and Taylor were rumored to be feuding Katy Perry.
Katie tweeted, finding it ironic to parade the pit women against
other women when 1 unmeasurably capitalizes on the takedown of
other women. I think I there's a typo in
there somewhere. Bad Blood was completely about
women against. Yeah, So like, I think, I think
Taylor said something like don't pit women against each other.
And then Katie tweeted, Like, I find it ironic that someone's
saying that when, like, they capitalize on pitting themselves
against. Yeah, well, I think Katie just
felt like, like, you made this whole bad blood music video
about me or like, made people think it's about me.
And yet you're like, doing this. Like, don't pit women against.
I forget what was the actual bad blood potentially.
About, I think it was revealed that it actually was, it was
about a guy, but that she felt pressured to not have a song
about a guy because she was getting the criticism that all
her songs were about breakups or whatever.
So she just made it look like it was about a friend.
Is that right? Yes, yeah.
So then during this whole Taylor Swift's over party, Camilla
tweeted, no need for revenge, just sit back and wait.
Those who hurt you will eventually screw up themselves
and if you're lucky, God will let you watch.
Oh, I should have mentioned she responded to Katie and said
couldn't have said it better myself.
No, she's like, couldn't have said it better dot dot dot,
which is better than revenge. Much better.
So Caddy I. Know she's but she's probably
like I've been waiting for this day like I better like her her
career that like all these Taylor fans Taylor Swift fans
like hated her what career I know.
No fans, sorry. A good point, yeah.
But I think I will say even before this, I think Taylor did
personally regret the song Better Than Revenge, she shared
in an interview in 2014. I was 18 when I wrote that.
That's the age you are when you think someone can actually take
your boyfriend. Then you grow up and realize no
one can take someone from you if they don't want to leave.
Yeah. I think that's smart.
I mean it is true to say think like she was 18.
Yeah. She was a teenager, got to give
her a pass for that. Yeah, and then years later, in
2023, Taylor re recorded the song and changed the lyric, the
mattress lyric to he was a moth to the flame.
She was holding the matches. I don't like that she did that.
That's not the song. Rewriting History.
Like own it, you made said that lyric own it.
But now she has her masters back.
So the original lyric is now like the.
Canon. Well, yeah, but she did sing
this song in concert during the Arrows tour, and she sang like
the new lyric, but the audience sang the old one.
And also on Speak Now was the song Last Kiss, which is also
speculated to be about Joe. Once again in the song, she
seems to struggle with the idea that he said he loved her and
then switched up. She said.
I still remember the look on your face lit through the
darkness at 1:58, the words that you whispered for just us to
know. You told me you loved me, so why
did you go away? When did this come out?
In 2010. So how do we know it's about him
and not about somebody else? Somehow people know something
about that date. There's a date they sing July
9th. I think that like somehow links
to Joe Jonas OK. And I really think it's a
beautiful song. The lyrics also say, so I'll
watch your life in pictures like I used to watch you sleep and I
feel you forget me like I used to feel you breathe.
And I'll keep up with our old friends just to ask them how you
are. Hope it's nice where you are.
That is well. Written and then 2011 September
Joe attended Taylors Speak Now concert in San Jose and at this
time Taylor wrote lyrics on her arms for the shows and the
lyrics this time was the lyric. After all we've been through.
I know we're cool, which is like the Gwen Stefani lyric, but it
seems like directed at show and this is around the time when
Taylor is working on her fourth album red.
And people speculate that the song Holy Ground could be about
Joe because the hidden lyric and that message is when you came to
the show in SD. But SD is San Diego, but he came
to the show in San Jose. Yeah, what that?
But South Dakota? Maybe I I was like, I don't
really think she played in San Diego, but maybe SJ didn't work
in the lyrics with the hidden message.
Yeah. Or maybe she mixed up the cities
that. Seems like a stretch to me.
Why would she still be writing about Joe?
No offense. Maybe she coming up.
Maybe he was. The love of her life.
Oh. My gosh, even still.
Is this post Jake Gyne Hall 2 or is it still not yet?
Because I thought that was like her big.
Love, but I think Taylor does kind of capitalize off of having
multiple characters for the song.
Should we not even take it seriously?
Like maybe she's not even super in love with them.
Maybe. I mean, this is also post John
Mayer and it might be post, it's post Conor Kennedy.
Like there's like so many different people.
And yeah, I don't know. I I think she kind of like, it's
almost like a mystery. So maybe they're cool, but she's
just, I don't. Know looking back on just forgot
what city I I yeah San Diego it's possible musicians tour so
many cities it probably all blends together.
But writing a message like that, like when you came to the show
in Blank, it does imply to us listeners that it is about a
real person. Sounds just like a feeling that
you like me, you know? So then like that also had the
song We are Never ever getting back together that album.
And Joe went on ADC radio show and was asked if that song was
about him. And he said I don't think we've
ever tried to get back together another time.
So I can tell you it's not about me.
That said, I think this song is great.
Taylor does pop music really well and I'm happy for her.
Oh. My God, that's great.
She also said, I haven't really spoken to her recently, but I
was able to go to her concert last year and her show live is
so phenomenal. I would say anybody should go
see her if they have a chance. I don't think we've tried to
give. Kind of a diz.
I mean, they were really. Just keeping it real.
I mean, she did the whole Ellen thing it seems.
Like early. After SO then they're not in
good terms, so it makes sense why they wouldn't.
In 2015, he was asked about Taylor writing songs about him,
and he said that's part of being a musician, I guess you write
songs about each other. She's great.
Yeah. We're friends in the industry.
You meet a lot of people and you can stay in touch.
Obviously, it's tough to be friends with people that are
always constantly traveling, but yeah, we're cool.
So it's like, friendly. Like, we're in the industry.
We're like colleagues in a way, Yeah.
Seems like it's fizzling out. In the morning, yeah, June of
2015, Joe began dating Taylor's good friend Gigi Hadid and they
go on a date day trip to London with Taylor and her then
boyfriend Calvin Harris. So weird, along with her friend
Karlie Kloss and they all take a picture on a boat together.
That's a group. Karlie Kloss was there with no.
With no one. Yeah, I'll show you guys the
picture. No one on your arm, Karlie
Kloss. I'm sure the Gaylord fan's
Wheeling, yeah. I've looked into that a lot.
I weirdly liked Taylor with Calvin Harris.
I don't really know. If you have any thoughts on it,
I don't know. Anything about it, but you
should cover it at least at the time.
Wow, this is the photo. Oh, they're gonna bow.
They're coupled up and then Karlie Kloss is just in the
middle in. The middle We've also covered
Karlie Kloss on the podcast, her relationship with Joshua
Kushner. I started getting a crush on
Joshua. I know he's cute.
I know he is cute. Then July Joe and Gigi go to
Taylor's 4th of July party and Rhode Island together.
In 2016, Joe went on Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen and
he played Plead the 5th and he was asked to play like Shag
Marry kill his ex's edition, which was I'll just play you a
cup, I guess. Bring it on.
I don't care. Marry, shag.
Kill Joe Jonas. Ex's Edition.
Taylor Swift. OK.
Demi Lovato and Gigi Hadid. You marry 1, you kill 1.
You shag one. Yeah.
Oh, Mary Demi, his friend, yes. Oh.
This is a game, right? Yes.
OK. Shag Taylor killed them.
Gigi. OK, There you go.
Very good. Thank you very much.
He did. He actually wanted to kill Demi,
but he was. Kid, I know.
He knew he was struggled. He literally.
Said Demi killed Demi Gigi. Why would he kill a Gigi?
I don't know it's. Just gave him more recent ex.
Yeah, I didn't hesitate. I know usually they're like, no,
I'm doing. That no.
Interesting. And then May 2019, Taylor was on
Ellen and she was playing a game where she answers questions and
Ellen asked her what was the most rebellious thing that you
ever did as a teenager? And Taylor answered, probably
want to put Joe Jonas on blast on your show.
And Ellen had no idea what she was talking about.
She's like, what? I have like no recollection of
that. That's so funny.
It's so funny because it was like a big.
Moment I feel like I know Ellen does a lot of episodes, meets a
lot of people. It's been years, but yeah, why
don't you remember that? No.
And then Taylor was like, that was too much.
Yeah, that was too much. I was 18, she said.
We love about it now, but that was mouthy.
Just teenage stuff here. She's honest and self aware.
And 2020, Joe and his son, wife Sophie Turner.
Sophie Turner welcomed a baby girl named Willa.
And afterwards on Taylor's Folklore album, she had a lyric
in her song Invisible String that goes cold was the steel of
my axe to grind for the boys who broke my heart.
Now I send their baby's presents, which we think is
about her sending Joe Jonas. That might be the only one.
Yeah, that had a baby, probably. And then in 2021, Taylor re
recorded her Fearless album which included a vault track
called Mr. Perfectly Fine which was supposedly about Joe Jonas
and about the song Taylor tweeted me in 2020.
Life is chill. Writing songs based in fiction
to avoid drama. Feeling pretty grown up.
My 2008 music from the vault in a Goblin voice release.
Mr. Perfect. I'm fine.
Wow, good character voicemail. That's my.
Goblin voice, I guess that is. So millennial Taylor, I feel.
Like, yeah. She isn't willing.
I know. Shut up.
And then Sophie Joe's wife tweeted or shared a story.
I'm I'm not really sure, she said.
I mean, it's not not a bop like with the screenshot of the song.
And Taylor replied forever bending to the knee of the Queen
of the North. I haven't watched Game of
Thrones, but so it's like, oh, like we're friends.
Like, I'm really close with which I wonder if Taylor's still
friends with Gigi, if that's weird too.
It's like, probably this is not just your ex-boyfriend, but it's
your friend's ex-boyfriend. Yeah, that.
Is odd. I don't think they are.
That's funny that that's a reference to Game of Thrones.
And then with the like lively stuff, it was like, Oh my
dragon. I know, true.
And I wonder if they watch Game of Thrones together.
It's kind of weird to think about.
That's so true. Yeah, I wouldn't.
I think of Taylor is someone that would be into Game of
Thrones. She must be but.
A lot of people I. Mean maybe she just knows that
from osmosis of, you know, the culture.
Like you wouldn't say that though if you didn't watch the
show. No, because that's all she
really. No.
For Sophie Turner, no offense. No, but I think you would feel
super uncomfortable. I would never quote a show.
I've never seen. What if she talking?
What if she was talking to Amelia Carp and you're like bow
to the Mother of Dragon? Think about a show that you
don't watch and now like try to imagine saying something like
some kind of reference to a show that.
You don't watch. That would just be I would feel
like. Maybe she, I don't know, she
definitely watched it. Yeah, I bet.
OK, anyway. Then in 2020, two, 2022 during a
Vegas performance of Much Better, which is like not a
great song. I'm surprised they're still
playing that song. Joe changed the lyrics to Now
I'm cool with Superstars rather than Now I'm done with
Superstars. Interesting.
So it's like we're mature. OK, Yeah.
That doesn't make sense. I know now I'm cool with
superstars, but she's much better than you.
Yeah. It's like the song.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Just keep it.
And Joe was asked if you'd be buying Era's tour tickets for
his wife, and he said, you know what, that's a great idea.
Is it still an option? She would love that.
I'll get in line now. She.
Can buy her own tickets. Yeah.
What? That's a That's such an awkward
question. Yeah, probably not.
I know feels. Like he has to say something,
yeah. I know, seriously.
So in 2023 Taylor performed a medley a Mr. Perfectly Fine and
Better Than Revenge during the Eras tour.
So it's like 2 Joe songs together?
That's interesting. And then?
September of that year, following the announcement of
Joe and Sophie's separation, Sophie later revealed that
Taylor offered Sophie and her children to stay at Taylor's
apartment in New York at the time.
And she said, I've never been more grateful to anyone than I
am for her because she took my children and me and provided us
with a home and a safe space, which I feel like Taylor, maybe
it's not the like apartment that we all know of as Taylor's
apartment because I feel like that would not be a safe space.
She. Definitely is more than one.
Yeah, she must. She gets.
Bored. More than one?
Wow, are they even that close? That's so interesting.
I don't know. Wow.
Size. Maybe she's just waiting for
that to happen. I know.
And then Taylor and Sophie were also photographed by paparazzi
several times during this time, like, going out, which seemed
very calculated, like maybe a deliberate sign of solidarity,
especially since there were a ton of stories at this time
circulating that painted Sophie in a bad light, like,
potentially being, like, an absent mother.
Yeah. So people thought maybe that
was, like, Joe's PR team and maybe Joe's, like, an asshole
and, like, wanted to make her look bad.
So it was like Taylor Swift is like making Sophie look good by
being friends with her and but it seemed very on purpose.
Yeah, because we never really saw them hanging out before.
And then all of a sudden while Sophie Turner is in the news and
she's out and about with her. Yeah, it did seem kind of forced
to me. And that's kind of Taylors move
after a breakup, like when her and Joe Allen broke up.
She goes out walking around. Out walking, we don't see you
most of the time. But then when someone has a
breakup, yeah, Gigi was there. Like lively and high.
Yeah, it's so true. Like all year we don't really
see you. And then when a breakup or
something big happens, is like her and the girl in the.
Town. Yeah, it's like, it's the
version of like, oh, I want to post a picture on Instagram to
make my ex jealous, maybe. So if he's like, yeah, I want to
like, post, or I want a paparazzi photo.
Make him know I'm living my life and I'm with Taylor Swift and so
everyone's going to love me 'cause I'm Taylor's new BFF.
It, I mean, maybe they were friendly.
They did the whole 4th of July thing.
Oh yeah. But it is weird.
Sophie Turner wasn't there, wasn't she?
No. That was when he was with Gigi,
right? Oh yeah, yeah, that was when.
He was with Gigi. OK then yeah.
How do they really know each other then?
It's like, why are you now hanging out with your ex
husband's ex-girlfriend? I mean, I guess she sent their
baby a present. But that's because of Joe.
It's not like she was really friends with Sophie as far as
we're aware. Yeah, I think Sophie was a fan
of Taylor, and Taylor might be a fan of Sophie, but yeah, I don't
know how close of friends they really were.
Yeah, it doesn't seem seem like she makes friends in a very
organic way. She just like.
Reaches out. Reaches out like, hey, I think
it'd be like, good for us to be friends.
For something like let's hang out.
Yeah. And then they do one walk down
the street to a restaurant and then that's like.
It and then suddenly there's like the.
Pictures Have you recently seen Taylor with Sophie Turner?
No, I don't think so, no. But I don't think they're, like,
good friends, yeah. And that's kind of it for Taylor
and Joe. I don't know if they're like,
cool now. Yeah, 'cause she definitely
picks sides. And then of course.
Probably not cool. Probably not cool.
Yeah, it's. Kind of funny.
She really had it out for him. And then they're like, cool.
And then it's like, I was waiting to not like him again.
Yeah. I think that's it.
Finally, Taylor has like, she's like feuds and then short lived
reconciliations. For real.
And then the feud opens. Up again.
Wow. I'd still get back together.
That's a pretty damn low. I think so that would be.
Crazy. You were like, what if he was
her soulmate? No, I mean maybe she thought
that. I doubt she still does, but
like, it was a couple years later, yeah.
I'm gonna say 1% never say never.
Yeah, true. Yeah, Yeah.
I mean, I feel like if they did get back together, it'd be like
a Fleetwood Mac situation where it's like way later.
Yeah. Like 65 in China.
Like in their 40s. I mean, they're almost there,
but. I'll, I'll say like 3% chance.
Oh. Minor.
I yeah, I could kind of see it happening.
I could kind of see it too, I feel.
Like Taylor, it's interesting she's had all these
relationships, but like, I mean, I know she must have broken up
and gone back together with people because of her songs, but
to our knowledge she's never had like a public getting back
together with an ex. She's a really double dip.
No, she's never double dipped, no.
I mean, now she's been with Travis for how many years?
Like 2? I think so.
Feels like forever. I feel like she is a hopeless
romantic, or at least she was. I'm not really sure about how
she is now. Yeah, I think, I think there's
still a little bit of it there, but I feel like she is, I think
she does see herself or wants to be a very powerful woman.
So I can see her not being the type to like go back to someone,
you know. Yeah, like she she can't be.
I don't know if it's just for appearances or if it's just her
own belief, but I, and I'm just, I could totally just be making
this up, but I just can't really see her being willing to go
through something like that, you know what I mean?
Yeah. Where people are like what?
I wonder who came back what? Ex.
She'd be most likely to go back to.
I'm gonna say, Joan, I was. Thinking that, yeah, 'cause that
was a long time. She was so in love with him too.
Yeah. Like lover I love.
Burn no almonds. I listen to the podcast I.
Think so too. I think Joe and then maybe Eddie
heal. I was thinking that, well, she
has burned a lot of bridges with these people though.
Some of them. I feel like Joe.
John Mayer? Never.
That would. Be great.
John Hall? No, I think Connor Kennedy, they
have to be interested too. Not Taylor Lautner.
Lautner. He's married.
I. Don't think Jake Gyllenhaal
cares at all, no. I think it's just Joe.
Not that we know what. About I don't think Harry Styles
never, no. Never Calvin Harris either.
I think it's Joe Allen. Joe Allen, Yeah, I agree.
They were together for way longer than anything for other
relationships too. That does make me kind.
Of sad, maybe Tom Hiddleston. He's married with kids.
Oh, oh, did she give him I? Totally forgot.
Oh yeah, true. Oh, more recent?
I totally forgot she dated him. Too.
That was like a month. There's like 5 more episodes we
could do. I think that would be a quickie,
yeah, Yeah. But.
The reason why you can do Taylor show so many times is because
all the people she's dated are like also famous so.
Yeah, because I don't know, I think partly to get people to
listen, but people are less likely to be interested if they
don't know the other. Person which we.
Still do it sometimes, yeah, but it helps when the other person
is famous too. Yeah, and she says Andrea has
dated a lot of people. That's just a fact.
Yeah. And pretend like.
She's dated more A list celebrities than most people.
Yeah. As a A Lister herself.
Even the lesser famous ones are still like have name recognition
or something. Like that I know that's.
Still a Kennedy. Even someone like Calvin House
Harrison might be like, I don't really know who that is.
And then you say, oh, well, this song, this song, this song.
Yeah, he's pretty famous too. People who I.
Didn't know who Joe Allen was until, I like, until he was
dating Taylor Swift though, yeah.
Cuz I don't think his movie had yet to come out.
I don't even know how he was invited with Matt to be honest.
The favorite hadn't come out yet.
No or that I don't think that other movie had come out yet.
The Billy cuz then she went to his premiere and everyone
thought she was there for Kristen Stewart cuz she's also
in the movie so why was he even at the was?
He a model or something? I don't think so.
It's very weird. Wow.
Well, anyway, I'll have to listen back to the episode.
Anyway, Well, yeah, that's the episode.
Wow. Oh, who gets custody of you?
We. Haven't done that in a minute.
I know. I guess Taylor, I'm not that
strong. Yeah, I'll split it.
And what are you gonna say? I would.
Split custody, but I you can't pick that like I guess I'll say
Taylor. Yeah, me too, but I'd be OK if
still visiting Joe on the weekend.
OK, Wow, that was fun. Thanks, Mel.
Thank you. Are you going to tease our next
couple? Next couple got together really
young and got married really young and had kids really young
and yeah, I think it's just kind of about getting with someone
when you're. Young.
Young and committing to them and what that means and does it
last? I guess we'll find out.
It's 2 actors 2. Actors Well, thank you so much
and we'll get back together in two weeks.
Bye is your heartbeat with. Pain shall I come?