Are you lonesome tonight? Do you miss me tonight?
Are you sorry we drifted apart? Does your memory all right?
We're back. Hi, guys.
Welcome back to Significant Lovers We.
Are your hosts IML? And I'm Kel.
And cousins. Yes, we're cousins.
And this is a true love podcast when we look back on couples in
pop culture and history. Yes, and it's almost Halloween.
If you're listening to this in real time, you might not be.
You might be listening to this way in the future, but we
recorded this to be near Halloween and you know, I like
to pick couples when are getting close to the spooky season that
are sort of Halloween themed. It's hard, you know, people,
most people aren't living their life Halloween 24/7.
Last year we did. What's his name?
Helena Bonham Carter and Tim Burton.
That was Halloween esque. So I picked Nicole Kidman and
Tom Cruise because, well, I've wanted to do them for a while.
We've also had them requested a bunch of times.
I wrote down Brittany, Rachel and Felicia have requested them,
but I know some other people have too.
But I feel like they're kind of Halloween esque because there's
going to be mentions of aliens, vampires, cults, creepy
behavior. They were in the movie Eyes Wide
Shut Together, which I watched over the weekend.
And that's it's a little creepy. It's kind of like Illuminati
vibes. So we can get into the spooky
feeling with this couple, I think.
Before we get into the episode, should we share our big
announcement for the podcasts? Yeah, I guess.
I guess so. I mean, what time is better than
now? Yeah, we have a big announcement
to make. Huge.
Cute. So a lot of you guys have been
following us for years, and we've gone by Kel and Mel, 2
cousins. We started off with our Twilight
podcast, Another Bite of Twilight, and we've just been
the two of us podcasting together for seven years.
I think, Oh my gosh. Really when we started in 2018
and now it's OK. Six years, six years we've been
podcasting together. That's crazy.
We are adding a third Co host to our podcast.
So we will be Kel and Mel and Kate or Mel and Kel and Kate.
And my cousin Kelly's sister Caitlin is going to be joining
us as a full time Co host. You guys might remember her from
our Larry episode, Larry Tomlinson and Harry Styles.
She took charge on that. She is our resident historian.
She runs our YouTube and listens to every episode and we thought
it's time that we make it official with her hosting the
podcast, which will be so fun to have her on the show.
She's being promoted and I think if you guys like our duo, you
know our dynamic, I don't think it's going to change that much.
I hope you're not worried about that or anything or I don't know
that's conceited of me to think, but she's just as close to us.
I mean, she's my sister. She's Mel, Mel cousin.
We've spent our whole lives together.
So we're going to have the same, you know, familial joking
dialogues that we have now. And yeah, I think she's going to
bring bring a great new perspective to it too.
Yeah. So I'm excited.
Yeah, just more insight to add to the discussions and she'll be
starting into episodes, so not next episode, but the one after
that I. Think on Halloween, right?
That will be the episode, Yeah. So she'll be with us on that
one. Really excited to show her some
love when she does join, you know, on social media or
Patreon, whatever. But we're really excited.
Yeah, but OK, so back to Nicole and Tom.
Kel, what 3 words would you use to describe this couple?
Oh. My God, the three words, The
three words I would use are all consuming.
Oh, I know that's 2 words, but manipulative?
Uh oh. An egotistical?
Oh no. These are like basically all
negative. All consuming could be exciting,
I think. It could, but I feel like it's
skews negative. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Depends how old you are. I feel like when I was younger,
I would love that. I got really into the research
for this guy's. I love when this happens.
Like I could not stop. I was reading this Tom Cruise
unauthorized biography by Andrew Morton and I could not stop.
I was addicted to, I like stayed up way too late reading it.
So that was one source I used. I also used this book called The
Hollywood Book of Breakups by James Robert Parish and as well
as some other like, you know, online sources and articles.
But this is a really juicy one and there's a lot.
So I guess I should just get into it. 1/2 of this couple is
Nicole Kidman. We've all seen Nicole Kidman in
movies. She's in so many movies.
It's actually crazy when you stop to think about it.
I feel like every actor has worked with Nicole Kidman.
Yes, I just did a quick Google search and I don't know if we
can trust this because it's like the automated answer, but she's
been in at least 83 movies it says.
How many movies has Tom Cruise been in 44?
Wow. So she's done like double the
movies he has. Wow.
Oh my gosh, yes, she is a serious actress, but she was
born Nicole Mary Kidman in 1967 on January 20th in Honolulu, HI.
Her Australian parents, I know her Australian parents were in
Hawaii because her father was a biochemist doing Cancer Research
there and her mother was a nursing teacher.
So they were just living in Hawaii temporarily and then they
relocated to DC for her father to keep doing research and her
younger sister was born there in 1970.
Then the whole family moved back to Sydney, Australia when Nicole
was 4. So even though she'd probably
have very little memories of life in the US, Nicole was a
dual citizen of both US and Australia, so she still is.
Nicole grew very tall at a young age to 510 and had curly red
hair. She still does, but she often
straightens it and bleaches it blonde now, which makes me a
little sad. I wish, I mean maybe she has
Gray hair now, but I wish we would see the red hair more
often. Even though she's so beautiful.
When she was a tween and young teenager, she felt because she
was really tall and had this bright red curly hair, she felt
like it made her the ugliest person on earth.
Just sad. So to kind of boost her
confidence, she found refuge in theatre and she started
performing at Sydney's Phillips St.
Theatre. So bigger shows than her high
school or anything like that. And when she was 15, she landed
a role in the movie Bush Christmas, about Christmas in
the Bush, which I think is a big Australian Christmas movie, but
I had never heard of it over here in America.
She was then in an Australian miniseries called Vietnam and
she was becoming an Australian teen * And she left high school
early at age 16 to focus on her acting.
She's been called even back then she was called very strong
minded and willful and rebellious even, which I would
not have expected for her. And when she was 17, she fell in
love with a 37 year old Dutch man.
Oh, and with her parents blessed, she went to Amsterdam
with him. What?
That reminds me of Priscilla Presley's.
Yes, I wrote that in my notes. I was like, what the heck, This
is like Priscilla. She travelled down Europe with
this guy for six months and then they broke up and then I guess
she lived with another older man.
So she kind of already had a thing for moving fast, I would
say, and being a little reckless.
When she returned to Australia, apparently her mother was
diagnosed with breast cancer. And so Nicole put her acting on
ambitions on pause for a bit to be with her family.
But her mom, I think, did get better.
She began dating the Australian TV actor Marcus Graham and lived
with him. And as she got older, I've read
that Nicole's often been described as a little aloof,
maybe a little bit snobby, but polite.
I think she comes off very low key, but I think she actually is
very ambitious, like maybe more ambitious than you would.
I mean, obviously she's been in 80 something movies, but yeah,
it's very deliberate, I think. But she is very, very talented
and I think she's somebody that I don't think she needs to
anymore because she's just such a star.
But I think back in the day, she would do whatever it took to get
ahead in her acting career. When she was 22 or so, she was
in an Australian TV miniseries and then she was in the movie
Dead Calm. And apparently when Tom Cruise
saw the movie Dead Calm, he said, who is that girl?
I have to work with her. OK.
So who is Tom? Cruise.
Yeah, we've we've. Heard of him?
I heard of him. Yeah, I heard of him.
I actually can't believe it's taken.
What like is this episode 90? Seven.
I think it's 98. 98 to get to Tom Cruise.
Yeah, the Andrew Morton book I thought was interesting
described Tom Cruise is as what you see is not what you get.
Oh, I feel like that's like kind of a bad quality.
We'll see. He was born Thomas Cruise map
the third the 4th, on July 3rd, 1962 in Syracuse, NY.
He was the third of four kids. His father was an electrical
engineer and his mother had various jobs.
And I don't know why I put this here in my notes, but I wrote
that I will say Tom Cruise seems to be kind of an embellisher and
an exaggerator. There are a lot of stories he's
told about his life where things don't really add up.
I think the things I'll say now in his back story, I do think
we're true. But like, I'll mention if I'm
not sure if it is. Yeah.
He's told a lot of stories that you're kind of like, huh, did
that really happen? And some people, friends from
high school or whatever, have disputed things he's said.
So very mysterious, that one. But yeah, apparently his family
moved a lot because of Tom's dad's job.
Take a train. Make a drink, that's part of our
drinking game. He attended 11 different schools
growing up, which is crazy and seems to be like the key to
success for some reason. It's a common trait we see in
these mega famous people. Tom was apparently not a great
student growing up. He was dyslexic, so where is his
mom and siblings actually? So he really pushed himself to
excel at sports. He had to learn to have really
thick skin, being only 5-7. People picked on him for being
small and for not knowing how to read.
So I'm not saying he literally didn't, but like that's what
people said. And so that he ended up having
this very like tough attitude because he had been picked on.
And I guess even as a kid, people have said that he had a
very my way or the highway attitude.
And he was seen as sort of an alpha male.
Even in elementary school, middle school.
And with his friends, they would always do hijinks and he would
always push things further and further, you know, like if they
were doing, I don't know, climbing a Cliff or something,
he would say like, oh, let's go higher, let's jump further.
You know, he was always taking things to the extreme.
And apparently at school, in middle school, all the girls had
to crush on him. One of his classmates even said
that as a kid he was famous before he was famous.
Oh yeah, wow. I never found him that good
looking like him to warrant that level of appeal that he has.
But that's just me. Yeah, I, I think he is
attractive. I, I don't think he's like the
hottest guy ever, but I, so I did just watch Eyes Wide Shut
and there were a bunch of shots where I was like, oh wow, Like
he is really good looking. I don't know there is something
charming about him but. Yeah, I am looking at his high
school picture. He is really cute.
He has a really good smile. He he does have a great smile.
Yeah. Tom Cruise in like the 80s,
nineties. It was really handsome anyway.
Were you going to say like there were kids like in your high
school? I feel like yeah.
And mine too. Yeah, there were some kids in my
high school who did feel famous, even.
Like, beyond just being popular, it was like everybody knew them.
They were, they were just stars, you know, even in.
Yeah. And it was like, no matter where
that person goes in their life, they will always be liked.
People will always gravitate towards them.
Everything will come easy to them.
And that's not really how it is in life.
Like they have hardships and struggles, but like they just
have that charisma that gets them in the door.
When he was 11, his parents separated.
And his dad did sound like a really mean, tough man who would
yell and I think hit Tom a lot. And Tom's mom planned a really
elaborate escape for her and her kids.
And I feel like it must have been kind of traumatizing, like
the kind of thing where she woke up early and they had all their
suitcases and like, they, you know what?
It was like an escape. And she took them all to live in
Louisville, KY, where her family was, and they didn't and even
say goodbye to their father. Wow, must have been really bad.
I know. And now the family had no money,
the dad didn't support them in any way, so I guess the kids had
to like all pitch in. And I read that for Christmas
they could only give each other acts of kindness.
Oh wow. But when Tom was 14?
Also, sorry, his back story is a lot longer than Nicole's, but I
feel like it's just crazier and there's more to say.
When he was 14, he did attend a Franciscan boarding school that
was paid for by his grandfather, his mother's father.
And at this boarding school, he made the honor roll for the
first time. And it seemed like he was doing
good there, like with all the structure.
And a lot of publications claim that Tom was planning on
becoming a priest because of this, but I don't think that was
ever really true. He was only 14 when he went
there, and he only went for a year.
So I don't, I don't know. I don't think that that was
true. Yeah.
I mean, maybe he thought about it, but.
Yeah, maybe he thought it. Seriously, I feel like there
isn't really proof that he did. He just so happened to go to
this boarding school. They had monks there.
But you know, Anyway, when he was 16, his mom remarried and
the family relocated again to New Jersey.
And in this school, he didn't immediately fit in, but he did
get a serious girlfriend and eventually he made friends with
some guys. And I read that he did soccer
and wrestling. Senior year he finally made the
football team, but third squad. But he was caught drinking and
he was kicked off the team and Tom injured, his knee running up
and down the stairs. He was trying to lose weight for
wrestling, and so he was kicked off the football team.
Now he can't wrestle because he hurt his knee.
And so he didn't really have anything to do.
He was in the choir, and his friend suggested that he try out
for the musical. He did, and people were blown
away. They were just like, Oh my God,
this guy is amazing. And he got the lead role just
out of nowhere. Wow.
He had acted in elementary school plays, but that's, but
nobody knew that because he was a new student, you know, So he's
the start of the play. I know he's such a good actor
with like no training whatsoever.
Like what type of psychology you're like.
I know make up as a person. Does that require?
That's such a good question, Mel.
I think something, I think there's something going on
there. I don't know if it's like his
having to reintroduce himself all the time at new schools, all
the people he's seen. I don't know, but people have
said many times that he's just a natural.
Yeah, definitely seems like he's got bravado.
So he went to school with this girl named Lorraine Golly, who
was actually an actress on a teen TV show.
And so she was kind of famous at their school.
And it was through her that he got an agent and found success,
I guess. Her agent said, oh, do you know
any cute guys or anything? And this girl said, Tom, he
actually went like, his last name was Mapather Mapather, so
and they called him Mapo as a nickname.
So she suggested Tom, and then he went to the agent's office
and apparently the agent said, like when she first saw him,
said you're going to be a star. But I feel like we always hear
stuff like that. Like, really?
Yeah, what are the odds? I know.
You can just tell. I don't know.
Maybe she said that to everybody.
Yeah. After high school that summer,
he commuted to New York every day to pursue acting.
He dropped his last name, now only going by Tom Cruise only,
and he started acting in stage productions, and he had odd jobs
while he was going to auditions, and he started acting in
commercials. Then he got an apartment in
Manhattan with a roommate. And then he landed a small role
in the movie Endless Love. I wrote just about his
personality. I wrote he is definitely very
dedicated, passionate, sort of intense, very ambitious.
But people, as I said, say that he's a natural born talent and
that he didn't have to audition and struggle for long.
He got success basically after a few months of trying.
Wow, Yeah, 'cause then he was in this movie Taps, and then he had
his big break in The Outsiders, and it was just going up and up
from there. He actually very briefly dated,
or at least he went on some dates with Melissa Gilbert, who
played Laura Ingalls on Little House on the Prairie.
You guys know her? I know.
I didn't know that. In 1983 he starred in the movie
Risky Business, which really turned him into a, you know, sex
symbol and in the Andrew Morton book.
I thought this quote was interesting.
He wrote. It seemed, at least to those who
worked with him, that behind the polite yes Sir, no ma'am,
Vernier was a young man out to take social and professional
advantage of every possible situation.
Very, very ambitious. He dated his Co star, the
actress Rebecca De Mornay, for two years and she talked about
feeling like there was a competition between them after
their breakup, that she was more successful than him at the time.
So it seemed like he didn't like that he felt competitive with
her, that she was an actress. Interestingly, though, Tom
always dates actresses. Like I've heard that it's it's a
thing that he. I think he even said he prefers
to date actresses because someone who isn't an actor like
wouldn't get him. It's that important to him.
But he did date Cher for. A little bit.
I know, and she was 16 years older than him.
Oh wow. I know, but apparently he
downplayed his relationship with her.
Tom seems to have always been very concerned about his image
and even then I think he didn't really think Cher was good for
his image. 1984, his father died and he was 22, so I think that
was really complicated for him because he didn't have a great
relationship with him. It's kind of sad, just like what
could have been, you know? Yeah.
He starred in Top Gun, which was released in 1986 and it was a
huge success. Then he was in the movie The
Color of Money and he started dating Mimi Rogers, an actress.
His Co star, who was seven years older than him, once divorced.
He likes the older ladies. He does.
He does and she's taller than him interestingly I feel like.
He probably has to date women who are taller than him a lot of
the time. A lot of the time, yeah.
I mean, he there, there are short girls out there.
He could definitely for sure. But it might limit his options a
little bit like. Yeah.
But there's definitely women who are shorter.
Yeah, he is small, though. I was thinking that watching
Eyes Wide Shut. Like there were a couple moments
I noticed like, well, he looks small.
So he's with Mimi Rogers. And it's actually Mimi who
introduced Tom to the Church of Scientology.
She had introduced it at a dinner party when they first met
and I don't know if this is true, but I read that it's very
likely that she had been planning to bring Tom into
Scientology for months before even meeting him.
That's weird that it was all orchestrated and planned.
OK, so I wrote in my notes a lot about Scientology and like what
it is. I really don't know that much
about it. I just know that like, it's kind
of culty. Yeah, I was surprised.
It was different than I thought, so I'll tell you guys what it
is. This is going to be like an
eighth of the episode probably, but OK.
OK, So what is Scientology? It was created by Ron Hubbard in
the 1950s, which is based on his theory of Dianetics, which is an
alternative to psychotherapy. And what I realized now that
that's in Phoebe's song Punisher, when she's like if
your things Dianetics and stucco or something, I don't know.
She mentioned it probably because it's like about LA or
yeah. Anyway, based on his theory of
Dianetics, which is when people revisit traumatic events called
engrams, they can be removed only through an activity called
auditing. So basically you talk about an
incident that bothers you and the auditor uses a machine to
measure your emotional reaction. And if it seems like you're not
reacting anymore, talking about this traumatic memory, if it
seems like you're not having an emotional response, then you're
officially clear from that N Gram as they call it.
And there's a fee charged for every session of auditing.
So. And what does the auditing do?
Like, is the machine doing something in your brain or
you're just talking about it? You're just talking about it.
It's almost like therapy or confession in a way.
But they're saying that if the machines, it's almost like a lie
detector. If it's saying that it's not
detecting an emotional response as you talk about this traumatic
thing, then it's saying, oh, it's not bothering you anymore,
you're clear from it. OK.
So you're like desensitizing yourself from traumatic events,
but you kind of have to pay to measure the amount that it is
affecting. Yes, to pay to do this process,
but then what's the spiritual aspect?
So it started as this and then he kind of like turned it into
religion. The spiritual aspect is that
they believe that basically we're all immortal souls with
God like potential called thetans because we're immortal
beings. We need to get back to the
trauma from millions of years ago.
And interestingly, as you progress through Scientology, so
it's like as you do more auditing sessions and you become
clear of all your traumas, then you like rise in the ranks.
Like there's different levels to it.
And then what you believe like changes as you go through
Scientology. And when you obtain clear
status, basically meaning like you're clear of your trauma,
then you can become an operating phaeton.
And operating phaeton texts are kept secret for most followers.
They're revealed only after you've basically given hundreds
and thousands of dollars to Scientology.
And even though they've tried to keep these texts very secret,
you know, only the top people can see it.
They're apparently freely available to read online.
And the texts say, apparently that past lives took place in
extraterrestrial cultures. And they involve an alien called
Xenu, described as a planetary ruler 70 million years ago, who
brought billions of aliens to Earth and killed them with
thermonuclear weapons. Where did that come from?
I don't, no, but most people doing Scientology like would not
know that. Like it wouldn't even be part of
their experience. That's like what they say once
you get to the end basically. And that was but.
We know that WikiLeaks. I know they know that.
I guess they do now. Unless it's like a cover up and
they believe something else and we just think they think that.
I like to think, I hope that most people don't believe that
because that just sounds so random, but I feel like it's not
really much of A religion, more of like a ideological
corporation and coming because apparently they don't even
believe in God. It's more like that every person
is a God themself. Oh, see, yeah, I feel like that
would gravitate towards someone like Tom Cruise, who is very
naturally self confident. Yes, it seems like a very
narcissistic cult and there's been a lot of government
inquiries and Superior Court judgments in all different
countries that have described Scientology as both a dangerous
cult and manipulative profit making business.
And these institutions and scholar state that it's not a
religion, that it doesn't really the criteria for it.
And it does kind of annoy me that it's called Church of
Scientology because I feel like I used to think it was like
somewhat Christian, but it's actually not at all.
So it's just weird. And they use this cross.
They have like a bunch of different symbols with one
symbol they use is like the 8 pointed cross which apparently
resembles the Hermetic order of the Golden Dawn which was a
secret society for real devoted to studying the occults in like
the 1800s so just. Creepy.
It does seem also like you have to be skeptical of anything that
is like requesting hundreds of thousands of dollars from you or
anything that like requires you to rise up in the ranks.
I know it is weird so maybe you guys have heard before that
people that are deemed hostile to the cult of Scientology,
including ex members, they are called suppressive persons or
SPS. Oh, if If the organization
declares that one of the members is an SP, all other members are
forbidden from further contact with them in an act it calls
disconnection, and any member breaking this rule is labeled a
potential trouble Source PTS. Unless they swiftly end all
contact with that troubled person, they can become ASP
suppressive person themself. That's so negative like come on
why would you even want to be a part of that?
Also it's like aren't you interacting with SPS all the
time like people who aren't members?
Like why? I don't think people that aren't
members are necessarily a problem, but he wouldn't want to
be married to a non member. Basically, yeah, exactly.
But see, I almost feel like if I was their marketing person, I
would be like, OK, that's kind of hurting you because people
don't want to maybe even experiment or try it out because
then they can't change their. Mind, I know it's a cult.
Yeah, exactly. They've had a lot of scandals
too. Members of infiltrated,
wiretapped and stolen documents from the IRS.
And like federal government, they've been charged with
coercion, fraud, labor law violations, extortion,
harassments, threats, coercing their female staff to get
abortions, partaking in human trafficking, physical, sexual,
mental abuse, all that. Like basically everything
possible. Why would anyone want to be a
part? Of this I know.
Well, that's what I was thinking.
I can see if you don't even know about that side of it, if you're
just introduced to it as like a way to move past your past and
to, you know, level up and almost like become enlightened.
And I don't know, I guess Tom Cruise maybe was struggling with
things, maybe because of his family, I don't know.
And maybe the auditing experience was really positive
to him. So I don't know.
That is cool, the auditing experience.
Next thing you know, I'm in the Church of Scientology.
Don't do it. That does sound cool, but also
like a RIP off. Like I guess what do you?
Who knows? If it's even real.
Yeah, exactly. Like, is the machine actually
doing anything? I don't know.
Seems like it's taking advantage of you.
Mm Hmm. And it it never ends because
they would just, like, keep going back and back and back.
And like, what else can we talk about, you know?
Yeah, exactly. And then apparently, you have to
kill yourself from trauma from millions of years ago.
So, yeah, that's silly, but I know it.
I can see why it's attractive. And during the auditing process,
apparently, the auditor collects and records personal information
from the client. Oh, that's bad.
Even though they say it's confidential, they have a
history of attacking former members using information called
from the records. And Oh yeah, I bet they.
Blackmail people? Yeah, I think people think, I
mean, it's just a theory, but people think that's why a lot of
people don't leave is because they might be blackmailed.
And why celebrities like, why is it that celebrities seem to
specifically get caught up in Scientology?
I guess it's intentional. Ron Hubbard himself, even when
he started this, established the project Celebrity in 1955 with a
list of major stars who might be persuaded to put on a good face
for the organization. And they later opened celebrity
centers described as like a special Church of Scientology
that would cater to the artists, politicians, leaders of
industry, anyone with power and vision to create a better world.
There's a lot more I could say about it, but I will stop for
now. Well, I feel like just one thing
to that I bet celebrities are the most vulnerable to feeling
blackmail. They're like the fear of
blackmail because like, if they have told all their dirty little
secrets to an auditor, the stakes are much higher when
people know who they are that like, oh, this could be leaked
to the public, everything from my life.
Whereas like a regular person, yeah it would suck but no one
really knows you so no one cares about these personal things that
you have confessed and not it. Like how far could it really
reach? Yeah, but it could be career
damaging for someone in the Church of Scientology to who is
a celebrity to leave it. Yeah, so back to Tom and Nicole.
So Tom married Mimi, Mimi Rogers, the Scientologist in
1987. So he was married before and he
was learning more about Scientology as he's with her.
He continued to be in many movies.
He got super invested in them, very intense.
When he was filming the movie Born on the 4th of July, he
played a veteran in a wheelchair and to become immersed in the
role, he really lived his life in a wheelchair all day.
He put himself through apparently physical and mental
torture. And he did get nominated best
actor for it. And again, Jerry Maguire, who's
nominated too. By 1989, Tom had been invited to
the secret exclusive Scientology gold base in the California
desert. And he's basically completely
enmeshed in the world of Scientology by this point, which
surprised me. I don't know why I thought it
happened later. I didn't know he was already so
into it. I don't know why I thought it
happened. Like when he got with Katie
Holmes. But.
I was wrong. He signed on to 1990s Days of
Thunder movie for $10 million. It was supposed to be sort of
like Top Gun for NASCAR. He had a lot of power in his
leading role, and it was him that suggested that the leading
lady, his romantic interest in the movie, should have been
Nicole Kidman after he'd seen her in the movie Dead Calm.
So it's his idea. He was like, you should get her
to do it. So Nicole, she was in Japan
promoting that movie Dead Calm when she was asked to audition
for Tom's movie Days of Thunder. But she still flew all the way
to LA from Japan, which is crazy.
And she's single at this point and he's married.
No, she has a boyfriend as well that she lives with.
Oh OK, I know. And he's married.
Nicole went to the studio to meet about the movie and she
walked into a conference room with six men and apparently Tom
was the only one who stood and shook her hand, and that really
impressed her. Nicole remembered feeling
embarrassed to be looking down at Tom, that she was taller than
him. She was worried that that would
cost her the role. But she also said to Rolling
Stone. The moment I laid eyes on him, I
just thought he was the sexiest man I had ever seen in my life.
He took my breath away. I don't know what it was.
Chemical reaction. Hard to define, hard to resist.
And he said my first reaction to meeting Nick.
Yeah, he always calls her Nick. My first reaction to meeting
Nick was pure lust. It was totally physical.
OK, that'd be a compliment. You know, he is married, though.
Oh, my gosh. Shit.
Yeah, Yeah. And she's, she has a serious
boyfriend. But after auditioning, she was
called shortly after by the producer to tell her that she
had gotten the role. And she said, what about my
height? And he replied, it doesn't
bother Tom, so it doesn't bother us.
I mean, he was that much of A star that like, it was up to him
basically. And they began filming together
in Daytona, Florida. Nicole and Tom began falling for
each other. Tom sent her love notes and red
roses almost every day while he's married.
Yes, I know they went skydiving together.
Apparently they kissed while they were in the air skydiving.
Wow, I feel like that I would not want, if I was married, my
husband to be skydiving with another woman.
Well, this isn't. This must be an affair.
It is. Yeah.
And she doesn't know what's going on, I don't think.
Yeah. He even brought Nicole to the
Scientology Gold base, arriving by helicopter.
Helicopter and they have their own private bungalow with a chef
and Butler. So very grandiose, like very, I
could see getting swept up in this and like a lot of
adrenaline, like it's just, it really is a whirlwind.
It is. It's like the definition of
whirlwind. It just seems like, I think it
will come up again in the story later, but he always is giving
Nicole gifts like everyday roses and things and like notes and
it. And it just seems like that must
be his love language, which is gifts.
We were just talking about this off the mic about.
We were different about gifts specifically.
Yes. And so I asked you guys on
Patreon, if you know what is your love language and gifts,
Let me refresh the poll. But gifts so far has the lowest
percentage, 6%. But you know what guys?
Mine is actually gifts me and Ty Cruz.
I think mine is also gifts for giving but I don't know if it's
receiving. I do like receiving gifts.
I know it seems, it seems really shallow.
I know I feel like it gets a bad Rep, but I, I feel like I've
said this before, that I just love like physical mementos of
things. Like it could be anything.
It could be a rock. Like, it doesn't have to be a
fancy gift. It doesn't have to be like
helicoptering to a bungalow or anything.
It could just, yeah, literally be a piece of paper.
But I just love like a little token and something that shows
that you were thinking of me. You know, I took that test
again. I was wondering like, will it
still be gifts? Maybe not.
But it was our top love language that you guys said.
Most of you 34% said quality time.
I do. Honestly it's so hard to pick.
I like them all. I know they're all, they're all
great. I feel like they're all
important. Second place is Acts of Service
26 percent, 3rd place physical touch 20%, words of affirmation
14% and then last 6% gifts. Yeah, I feel like gifts does
have a bad rap because it does superficial, but like like you
said, like it really is just a sentiment, a physical
representation of thinking of someone.
Like usually if your love language of gift is gifts, it's
a sentimental thing. It's not just like a gift card
that you got somebody to spend money on, someone that.
I would not like that. Like, that would upset me
actually, because it would feel like, not very personal.
Yeah. I'm surprised words of
affirmation is so low. I think that might be my second
one for like, I need assurance a lot.
And when I was doing the quiz, I see.
I agree. Like, they're all great.
Like I feel like acts of service is super nice, but when I had to
choose, like, would you rather your loved one like help with
the dishes or give you a little gift?
I'm like, the dishes can't wait. I'd rather have gift.
Like, yeah, I have to pick that. Some comments.
Michelle said my husband bringing me a glass of ice water
is my love language. Sweet.
And yeah, same as you, Ariel said.
I think I love to give people gifts, but I prefer quality time
with someone. Yeah.
Oh, I only said I love acts of service so much.
I used to be all about words of affirmation.
After dating enough liars, I realized action is so much nicer
than words. Acts that show someone is
listening to you and cares about the things you care about.
So true. I do think that it kind of
depends on your recent experiences and like who you're
with now. If anybody like, I don't know, I
think that that can change how you feel about things.
That's true. Like I feel like I love physical
touch too, but I feel like you could have a partner who's too
physical and then it's like, OK, do you only really care about
being physical? Yeah, exactly.
So it depends. Or you could have a partner who
loves quality time but then they're suffocating you so.
Yes, yes, yes. Sometimes you need to have a
balance of the different love languages and it needs to be
compatible. I almost feel like because I
live with my boyfriend, like quality time.
I was almost overlooking because I feel like, oh, we spent so
much time together anyway. Like I don't know.
Because some of the in the quiz, it's like just being together
and not doing anything. Like yeah, I do.
I do like that, but I do that all the time.
So yeah, true, I feel like it's confusing for me because they
overlap. Like quality time often includes
physical touch or includes words of affirmation or acts of
service. So you can't.
Have only time, but the other no acts of service, no words of
affirmation. Being buddies, it's.
Kind of boring, I know. No, but that's still nice.
But I do like my alone time too, so it's probably not my number
one. Yeah.
But acts of service, that's definitely my boyfriend's.
He definitely, he's always getting me water, just doing
little things like that. But.
Sweet. So they're filming this movie
Days of Thunder in Daytona, Florida and Tom's wife Mimi flew
to Florida to visit him and she was stunned when Tom told her
I'm with Nicole now and requested a divorce.
Yeah, that would be shocking it. Would be.
Like wait, since when were you out looking for someone like
that's? So weird from what I read about
it. I mean, we weren't there, but it
seems like it was very cold. Just kind of like matter of
fact, like it's over. Things have changed.
You know, sociopathic it is. And we've talked about this on
the podcast. You'll lose them how you catch
them. Like it's that's just not a good
sign. Like, if I was Nicole, I would
not be attracted to somebody who would leave their wife in such a
awful way. Like at least be kind of guilty
about it. Feel bad about.
It for a second, I know I almost did a poll about that, but I
wasn't quite sure how to phrase it and it also seemed extremely
specific. But yeah, like get always one
while they're married. Yeah, I always want to ask poll
like that, but like who is going to vote?
Yes, I would. Someone might.
If we did it on Instagram, I'm sure somebody would say.
I guess you could ask people like they asked, you know, the
movie. He's just not that into you.
Scarlett Johansson's character, I think, says, you know, what if
you meet the love of your life, but there was someone else, are
you supposed to just walk away? Like, I guess, you know, that's
something to question. Like, is it fate?
Do you turn back on that? Or if someone's already
unavailable, is that enough? That is an angel's question.
I feel like I could ask that for next week too.
Oh, why do these relationships start this way?
I know. I do think part of maturity is
being able to walk away though, and knowing that you could have
a great time with a lot of people.
But after the excitement wears off, like, I don't know, I, I
think if you have a good life with someone, like it's not
worth it to throw away for maybe like equally nice, but I don't,
you know what I'm saying? It's like.
Exactly the. Thrill evens out eventually.
I think it just seems exciting because you're not in that
honeymoon phase anymore. But.
Yeah, what we talked about that with Brad Pitt, like some people
are addicted to the up and up that they feel in the beginning
of a relationship and they can never be satisfied with the
inevitable cool down period where it's just nice and
pleasant and stable, but they want the thrill again.
But they'll never be able to sustain that with one person
forever. No, no you cannot.
But you are missing out on something great, I think.
When you don't stick around, you know.
But anyway, even though they were separating now, him and
Mimi, they were, he was still pretending to the press that him
and Mimi's marriage was great. Like he was still saying like,
oh, she's great. Like, you know, the relationship
comes first. Like he was still acting like
they were together when they weren't anymore.
I know Days of Thunder was released.
It was a box office success. And then it became public that
Nicole and Tom were together and their relationship was all over
the news. And not long after, Tom bought a
$4.7 million home in California for him and Nicole.
And it seems like they both just ran headlong into this
relationship. And she dumped her boyfriend as
well, obviously. I hope so, yeah.
Apparently Nicole's mom wasn't that surprised that it was
moving fast because Nicole had done this before.
Yeah, just interesting that Dutchman that she ran off with,
she had done things like this before, and she started to learn
more about Scientology and Dianetics, but apparently the
cult members thought she was a potential trouble.
Source And this is all according to sources from Scientology,
like ex members that have said this, they thought she she was a
PTS because she was a practicing Catholic, or at least she used
to be. And her father was a
psychologist. And I guess psychology is like
the enemy of Scientology. Yeah.
Which is surprising because they, I mean, you wouldn't think
it would be that different, but they hate psychologists,
probably because they could like, debunk their whole thing.
Yeah, and it was psychology. It's always continually being
studied too. So yeah, like it evolves as a
practice. But Tom and Nicole didn't know
about this. They didn't know that the other
Scientologists were talking about how Nicole is a potential
trouble source. They just thought it was all
good. I mean, they really wanted to
keep Tom Cruise happy, actually. Like, he was there, darling.
They did anything for him. So they weren't going to like,
upset him yet. They were just keeping an eye on
Nicole Kidman. But what a red flag of a quote
religion anyway that like they're cautionary about certain
people joining because they might cause trouble.
Isn't the point of most religions if you want as many
members as possible? It's like they know that there
are issues with it and so they don't want some people to join.
I know. And I also think they really
feel like they are above other people like because they've done
all this auditing, they are like more God like or something.
Whereas I think other religions people are, even if you don't
believe it, they're somewhat looking out for other people.
They're like, you need to connect to God, you know, like,
yeah, they they think it's for the other person.
But I get the sense that Scientology, they don't really
care about other people like if you improve or not like.
It's not about like, yeah, humility or.
Selflessness. Yeah, it's very exclusive.
And not long after they first started dating, a couple months,
I'm not exactly sure when, but Tom proposed Nicole by leaving a
note on her pillow. He wrote, My darling Nicole, I
chased you and chased you until you finally caught me.
Now will you marry me? So less than one year after his
divorce, Tom and Nicole married in December 1990 on Christmas
Eve in Telluride, Co Nicole was 23 and Tom was 28.
So this time he's older. And Nicole was quoted saying, I
don't feel I'm too young to get married because I know that I've
met the person I want to spend the rest of my life with.
I feel totally certain about that.
She was confident. They starred in a film together
again called Far and Away, which was released in 1992.
And we wouldn't have known this at the time, but she has told us
since then, the public, that in their first year of marriage,
she had an ectopic pregnancy, which is when the fetus is like
in your fallopian tube, and it's very dangerous.
And she said it was incredibly traumatic for her, even though I
do think like, she was so young and so ambitious about her
career, too. She had said many times that she
wanted to have kids, like she was ready to have kids with Tom
already. And also in this early 90s
period, the cult members had built a Meadow of wildflowers
just for Tom and Nicole at that bungalow at the gold base.
Because I guess Tom had said, they had said that it was a
fantasy of theirs to run through a field of flowers together and
they could just go to a field of flower somewhere.
But twenty members of Scientology dug, hoed, and
planted wheat grass and wildflower seeds to make it
happen and made a field of flowers for them.
Wow. Which is crazy.
Tom continued to send flowers daily, apparently.
I don't know if that's an exaggeration, but daily flowers,
maybe every couple days, I don't know.
And would leave notes for her. He bought her a dog, but he
didn't realize that she wasn't an animal person, wasn't an
animal person, which kind of shows that she didn't really
know her that well. And she said that's a.
Big gift to get somebody. I know and to not realize like
you're they're married to not even know that your wife doesn't
really like pets that much is. Yeah.
It makes me think you don't know each other that well.
She said that she didn't like clothes shopping, so he took
over buying clothes for her. OK, so now it's 1993.
Tom and Nicole had said that they desperately wanted to have
kids together and again, we didn't know this.
The public didn't. But after her ectopic pregnancy,
they weren't sure if she could safely have kids.
And I think that was an issue. And so in January 1993, only
weeks after applying, they adopted a baby girl, Isabella
Jane Kidman Cruz, they named her and Nicole.
So this has been a couple years. I think she's, she was only, she
was 25 turning 26 when they adopted Isabella.
Just seems really fast to me and surprising.
And apparently because of this adoption, there were a lot of
rumors swirling that Tom was sterile, that he was gay, or
that Nicole couldn't have children.
There were lots of stories and tabloids about this.
OK, so now they have this baby girl they adopted.
They did have two nannies on call 24 hours a day, but they
were both very hands on, as hands on as you can be for
having two nannies. Tom was apparently very invested
and almost obsessed learning about parenting and checking on
Bella. Tom and Nicole had lived very
scheduled, structured lives. They had someone waking them up
at 8:00 and then checking on them 10 minutes later.
Then they would work out and then they would have oatmeal
with the New York Times. So they had a very structured
life and I think that they tried to maintain that with having a
daughter, but I think it was difficult.
Nicole had been doing auditing sessions of Scientology and
apparently she had the option to move forward to the next level,
but she was kind of procrastinating, stalling.
She was saying that she's busy with filming.
He knows that she'll do it soon, whatever that even means.
I don't know if there's, like, a ceremony or something, but some
of the Scientologists were getting suspicious, like, why is
she putting this off, you know? Yeah, 1994, October 1994, she
told. I probably should have put that
at the end of the year. Whatever.
I'll just say. In 1994, she told Vanity Fair
about her husband. She said he's quite eccentric.
He's just an odd 1. He has his own little quirks and
mannerisms. He's kind of wild.
And I love that. Interesting.
And some people have said, I just thought about this when she
said that, that Tom almost lives his life like it's all an act.
Oh, that's not great. I know.
I think, I think that that is kind of definition of like a
capital. N narcissist, Yeah, or a
sociopath. Yeah, I do get that vibe from
him, I got to say. Yeah, me too.
I mean, even not to skip ahead in his life, but the fact that
he like cut his own daughter out Suri Cruise like because of
Scientology, not to skip ahead at all.
But it's like, OK, you have to question anybody that is that
cold or even his wife, his first wife.
Yeah, he can be very cold and matter of fact and just kind of
like, do what you got to do. Like there's something missing
in there. So 94, he was cast as Lestat and
interviewed the vampire. And the reason that I'm talking
this way is because my sister Caitlin, who's going to be on
the show, she loves Interview with the Vampire.
Well, she mostly loves the show that they recently made.
And she's read the books, and she has a dog named Lestat.
And the crazy thing is, he was already named Lestat when she
adopted a dog. Yes.
It was like fate. She had to.
Obviously, she had to adopt him. His name was Lestat already.
So yeah, Tom plays Lestat in Interviewed the Vampire, based
on the books by Anne Rice. And Anne Rice was apparently so
upset that he was cast, she publicly said that he is not her
Lestat. Oh, wow.
And he was deeply hurt by that. This was a huge role for him
because up until this point, he he had been named sexist man
alive. He was known for playing all
these all American roles, you know, like NASCAR, flying
planes, like he was really a manned man.
And now he was going to play this like, dark, seemingly
bisexual or ambiguous sexuality villain vampire.
Like, it's a very different character for him.
Androgynous. Yes, yes, androgynous.
So it's exciting. But while this is happening,
Nicole kind of felt like her career was in a slump and she
was determined to land more serious meteor roles.
And I read that she was, I mean, this is just according to
sources, I don't know if it's true, but I was reading that she
was starting to act a little jaded and somewhat of a diva.
I mean, I don't think any more than Tom Cruise acts, but she
was just starting to like, expect that things be perfect.
And I think she was getting a little just frustrated with her
career. And I don't know.
But then she landed a role in the film To Die for, which she
really, really wanted. Was that the one?
Was there something about Meg Ryan with that I don't remember?
I don't remember. What she really, really wanted.
I think Meg Ryan maybe dropped out or something.
And it was a very intense, dark role alongside Joaquin Phoenix
and Matt Dillon. Maybe that's why I remember it.
Joaquin Phoenix, Yeah. So then interviewed the vampire
comes out and Anne Rice actually changed her mind.
She said that she loved Tom Cruise in it, and she took out
advertisements in New York Times and Vanity Fair praising the
movie. And she said that he perfectly
captured the stats, strength, humor, and boldness.
So really rose to it and now I have a video that I want to show
you from the Interview the Vampire premiere.
I just think it's kind of funny, and I'm not sure how it will
translate on the podcast audio wise, so I'll just try to
describe it. But it's at the premiere, and
Tom seems like he's in a really good mood.
And he just keeps saying, like, where's my wife?
Where's my wife? And then he's like Nick, Nick,
Nick calling to her. And then he sees her and then he
whispers in her ear and kisses her.
And it's just interesting to see this like, really candid moment
between them. So I sent it to you.
There's so much shorter. He does.
He does look like a fun time. He seemed like he was in a
really good mood. Yeah.
I like that video. It's fun.
It feels like you're at the party.
I don't know she's. So beautiful too.
Oh she's so beautiful. Maybe I'm over analyzing it, but
she seems like a little reserved.
Yeah, she she often seems that way.
Like he's kissing her and she's but she's not.
Like she's kind of leaning in, but she's not that handsy.
Yeah, I must feel like she's like, kind of, well, she's
laughing at him. He does seem way more like happy
to see her. Yeah.
You know, she's just kind of like, hey, yeah, what do you
want? Yeah.
He must be drunk. I don't know.
Yeah. Where's my wife?
Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting, though.
In 95, they adopted another child, their son Connor, in
February 1995. So he would have been in my
grade. Crazy.
They're like my parents. Weird.
Yeah, that's so weird. Nicole's career was doing well
after her role in To Die For, which is what she wanted, and
she actually won a Golden Globe for it.
And then she landed a role in the movie Portrait of a Lady,
and she felt that she needed to be alone to focus, to prepare,
leaving Tom with the kids. I think she just went off
somewhere, stayed somewhere else.
And she was insisting on wearing her 19 inch corset all the time
to really feel what it was like for Lady Jane, who she was
playing. And it's just like Tom.
I mean, it seems like she was doing the same kind of thing,
like getting so absorbed in a role.
So they have that in common. And he was also filming Mission
Impossible, but I think it was with the kids.
And then winter 1995, they received a letter from the
director, Stanley Kubrick, that said that he wanted to work with
both of them and that they would receive a script from him soon.
And the movie turned out to be Eyes Wide Shot, the erotic
thriller that was filmed in England over A2 year period.
And yeah, in this movie, Kubrick really wanted to study
possession and power relationships within a marriage
and wanted to cast a real life married couple for the role.
And they were encouraged to basically play themselves.
And since they were both people that loved to research their
roles and go deep, it kind of meant that they had to go really
deep into their own relationship.
And. Yeah, I just watched this movie
for the first time. I'd wanted to see it for a
while. And it's really interesting.
It was it was a good movie. And even though I described it
as like an erotic thriller, some parts of it really felt cozy.
It just felt filmed that way, you know, like the 90s.
And there's like, a lot of Christmas lights.
And I love the way it looks. Yeah.
It's it's, I was preparing for it to be like this super sexual
movie, and it is. But I honestly don't think it is
as much as poor things. It's not as bad as that, yeah.
Now when you watch anything from that time period, like the 90s,
it's almost like a Meg Ryan movie in the sense that it has
that nostalgic element to it. Yeah, like shot and film it
just, it has a good atmosphere. It is interesting though,
because it is about a man that like, finds this secret society
and people wear masks and it's like super weird and people are
threatening him and he's not supposed to know things.
And it's interesting 'cause it kind of reminds me of
Scientology in a way. Like it seems like there's
levels to it and secrecy and it's just interesting that
they're in this movie that sort of, I think reflected their own
life and in the movie. It's not, it's not really a
spoiler or anything. Like there is this secret
society and it's like hinted at that there's really important
people in it. That also reminds me of
Scientology. You know, there's a lot of
famous people in this cult. But it was a very intense shoot.
Apparently Stanley Kubrick kind of pushed things too far with
the sex scenes, I think made Nicole feel kind of
uncomfortable. But it's really not as bad as
poor things though. I, I was like preparing for like
super graphic, but it's not really.
But Nicole said, though we were happily married through that
Eyes Wide Shut, we would go go Kart racing after intense
scenes. We'd rent out a place and go
racing at 3:00 in the morning. OK, now we're.
In 1998, Tom sued a British publication for accusing Tom and
Nicole for having a fake marriage to cover up the fact
that they were gay and that that's why they had adopted
their children. That they both were gay.
Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I think mostly him, but
they were saying both, yeah. I mean that is so shitty and
terrible that these publications would even insinuate that just
because they adopted. Yeah, it's interesting because
also in the movie, there's like a couple moments where Tom's
character is called gay or like, people call him slurs and stuff.
And the book I read was like, they didn't have proof of this,
but he was kind of wondering if Stanley Kubrick was like
antagonizing Tom Cruise. Like it seemed, it seemed like
he was really sensitive about this.
And there were a lot of rumors about this at the time, so I
don't know what the deal is. But he ended up suing and
winning the case. And Tom stood triumphantly on
the court steps with his lawyer saying that he'd donate the
money to charity. But Nicole actually wasn't
there, which people thought was weird.
And Tom said that she just had a cold.
But many people suspected that she didn't want to be involved
in all of this and that she was upset.
Again, this is speculation, but she was upset because all the
details of her ectopic pregnancy were made public for this case
basically to like prove that that was the reason they adopted
or I don't it was it's so weird that they had to do that, but I
mean, they didn't have to. But he wanted to sue.
So, you know, and I guess he had been like obsessed with winning
this case. I don't know if it was like to
prove his masculinity or something.
But, and I read this is like, according to sources in that
unauthorized biography, that she was starting to kind of retract
from his intense affections, gifts and trip ideas.
She was starting to fall out of love with him, the book said.
And that she didn't really like hanging out with Tom's old New
Jersey friends and would act sort of distant when they were
with them. But then she was all bubbly and
happy when she's with her friends like Naomi Watts and and
quote gay men of the fashion world from the Andrew Morgan
book and I read I don't know if this is true again, but that
Nicole would start pulling away and would sometimes go days
without calling and that Tom was constantly with the kids but was
very controlling with them. Yeah, well, I'm getting, I'm
picking up what you said about it being all consuming.
I could see her being like, you know, after the initial ecstasy
of the relationship wearing off, being like, OK, this is too
much. Like, yeah.
Like it's still. Going on yeah, it is interesting
though, because of something I'll read in a second, even
though I just read that she was kind of like pulling away and
like being turned off by the gifts.
It seemed like she did like it too.
But actually I do kind of have to go to the bathroom and want
to top off my so I. Do I do too?
OK, so we'll take a break. Let's take a break.
OK. So I have something that I
didn't know existed. I feel kind of conflicted about
it. What?
But I might. I think I'm going to share it
anyway. So March 1998, apparently their
phone conversation was illegally recorded and sent to newspaper
magazines, just like Charles and Camilla.
Yeah. This is probably widely known
though, yeah. I think so.
I I mean, I didn't know about it and I do feel bad about it.
Well, it's kind of before our time.
It's before, I mean, we didn't do it, Yeah.
I mean, and it's already out there like with we can't leave
it out of the. Story.
Yeah. I mean, I mean, it's just
journalism. I do feel bad, but I do what I I
feel bad. But I still do want to share it
because it's so interesting. Just, it's just a transcript of
it. It's really long, so I already
cut some of it out and I think I'm going to have to skip over
some things anyway, this is what it says.
So this was March 1998, starts Tom said.
Nick, come on, you've just got to fucking let let up on me for
a second, OK? Yes, you do, Nick.
Look at the things that I do, all right?
And stop making me walk around that makes me feel like feel
terrible. You saying that makes me feel
like shit. And I don't like feeling like
shit. You should make me feel good,
Nicole. Oh, God, get off it.
You don't like feeling like shit.
Make yourself feel good. And Tom said.
I'm telling you, Nick. I'm telling you how I feel too,
Nicole. We've been hanging by a fucking
thread, OK? A thread.
You know it and I know it, Tom. Nick, I want this relationship,
OK? You know that.
And I've been making an effort. I have been, Nicole.
Tom, You know you haven't, Tom. Raised voice.
What are you talking about? How much more of an effort Do
you want me to fucking drive you to work every day?
No, no, I'm telling you, Nick, it's like you're being
unreasonable, man. And I'm sorry, but you are being
fucking unreasonable, Nicole. No, you know Tom.
What do I know, Nick? Nicole, just look at your
behavior, Tom. Because it's frustrating, Nick.
That's why I'm yelling. Because at a certain point, an
individual has to say. What are you talking about,
Nicole? Not an individual, Tom.
Stop talking in generalizations. You know exactly what I'm
talking about. And you can yell and scream and
carry on and swear, but you know exactly what I'm talking about,
Tom. No, I don't, Nick.
Tell me what I haven't done. I didn't go out to set tonight
to see you, Nicole. Not tonight.
Tom. Have you done anything?
Have you come out to set once? OK.
Have you sent me a rose? Have you, Tom?
Have you sent me a rose? I came home with two roses.
Nicole, did you give me anything?
Did you give me a note? Did you give me a bunch of
flowers? Tom?
Nick, did I get any flowers? And I came back from Eyes Wide
Shut. I was waiting here.
I had the candles lit. I had a bath ready for you,
Nicole. I don't really want this, OK?
I don't want to spend my whole dinner break on the phone
yelling, Tom. No, because you think about what
you don't have, Nick. Why don't you try thinking about
what you do have, Nicole? No, Tom, I know what I have.
I have two glorious, beautiful children.
I had a great relationship that is now not a great relationship,
OK? I know that.
I know that, Tom. OK, Nick.
All right. OK, Nicole, I have a career that
I work very, very hard at, and so do you.
But I have a loving, loving family.
I know all this, Tom. All right, Nicole, And until we
start admitting something and dealing with this stuff, it's
never going to go anywhere. Tom just gets worse and worse.
You know, it surprised me that I didn't get anything on the first
day of shoot, Tom. Right.
Nick, I bought brought you the most beautiful Indian jewelry a
week ago for finishing a picture for and for starting your new
picture. I knew everything was going on,
honey. Come on.
You knew I went out of my way. You knew.
It's about the fact that I love you, Nick.
Nicole, a little red rose. It's something.
You want to know something? No, Tom, it's not.
I guess like the tape kind of became inaudible.
And then she says you yell and scream and hurl abuse and say
I'm so fucked to have a relationship with and I'm so
awful and I'm such a bitch and all this stuff.
Well, you want to know something that's really bad?
That's bad, Tom. I know.
I know this Nicole. And that's what they name an
emotional abuse. Tom.
I know also the emotional abuse that I'm under, Nicole.
Tom, there's no love here, right?
You're under emotional abuse. I'm abusing you.
You're abusing me. Tom, this isn't worth it.
You have two very unhappy people, OK, who spend too much
time apart and the past have hurt each other too much.
Tom. Nick, everything's fine.
And then it's like you go on. I didn't get you a rose for
starting a week ago. A week ago, you were just going
and I just got You Beautiful Indian jewelry.
It's like one thing. It's like one thing I don't do
right. It's just Nicole.
No, No, it's not. And you know Tom, yes it yes it
is Nick, I come home, I've got 2 roses for you.
I'm so happy to see you. I come home, you come home, I've
got candles lit, I've got the kids organized for you in bed.
And what do you say? I don't think she answered.
So now I'm skipping ahead. They seem to make up a little
bit. Well, never even not yet.
Tom says listen to me Nick, just listen to me.
I miss you. I love you.
I think about you all day long. You're a knucklehead.
I'm a knucklehead for thinking that.
I don't care. I'm not loving.
I'm embarrassed that I was tired last night.
I apologize. OK, Tom.
It's every night. Tom.
That's not true, honey. That's not true.
I'm recovering from a broken foot.
Look at. Look at a little of the effects,
Nicole. I do look at some of the things
you say. You're exhausted.
How do you think that makes me feel?
I'm just trying to. I'm just trying to do something
for our son. Tom.
Just give him a cake and he's happy in a movie and dinner and
it'll just be you, me and Isabella.
You know? I love you, OK?
I care about you and I care for you and I love you.
Think of a husband, you know? I mean, Nicole.
Tom, all I call, all I hear is you got to come.
You got to come. I don't hear any consideration
for me or anything. And then angry yelling at me on
the phone, I come back and I come back.
And all the time you're saying how exhausted you are.
Well, I'm sick of it, Tom. Hey, Nick, listen to me.
OK? Come on now.
It's 11:00 PM at night. I've been up since 6:30 in the
morning. OK, Nicole, but every night.
Why don't you have a little bit of excitement and say hi, baby
Tom? I did.
And then I said hey, baby Nicole.
No, you did not, TomTom. I can take a little excitement.
I've been waiting for you, Nicole.
I don't want to go on and on. There's some.
There's someone listening on the phone, Tom.
Who's there? Nicole, you know people outside.
Oh, fuck them. We're on the cellular.
Oh, fuck em. I don't care.
We're right on location. There'll be someone sitting
outside. Hey, Nick.
Nick. What?
Nick, It's going to be better. We're going to be all alone
together on Sunday with the kids.
He'll have his cake. He'll love it.
He'll have a ball. All he cares about is that
chocolate cake and getting some presents.
And then it seems like they kind of make up.
Tom says. OK, listen to me, OK.
I love you. Just know that.
All right? We're not by a thread, he says.
Yeah. He says, all right.
Nicole whispers I love you. He says sleep.
Nicole says bye. And Tom says I love you.
Bye. There's a lot.
I would not expect a rose like the first day of the new job.
Especially when you're an actor, you know you're starting a new
job all the time. It must be a thing for actors
because I remember Elizabeth Taylor expected gifts for the
start of every movie. It's so strange to me.
I've never. Gotten a gift for a new job I.
Know never. I really wouldn't expect that,
but yeah, that must be a courtesy.
Too much. I should let that go.
That's way too much. That's.
Too. I know.
I mean, supposedly he just got her Indian jewelry.
So yeah, that's pretty nice. See, I feel like I, like I said,
I like gift giving. I love gift giving.
But you, that can't be all you have.
It sounds like that relationship started on kind of a superficial
foundation, and now it's like they're like, do you even like
me? You're not buying me gifts
anymore? Yeah.
It almost seems to me maybe she got used to that and I, I, it's
kind of contradicting what I read before because it said
like, oh, she was pulling away and wasn't interested anymore.
But it seems like she's upset that he's not giving her as many
gifts. So I don't know if then he kind
of stopped. I don't know.
I mean, it doesn't really sound like it if he just gave her
roses. And earrings or jewelry.
It kind of makes sense though, because if that's how your
relationship started, that would be like a measure of the other
person's affection. And if that, it would be kind of
scary to be like, oh wait, maybe they don't love me as much
anymore. Yeah, I thought it was funny how
she was tired of him saying he was exhausted at the end of the
day. Yeah.
So, so normal. But yeah, I think he is kind of
acting. I don't know how far it is.
I don't know if it's that he's checked out or he just kind of
like is normal now, like he's not being hyperactive with the
gifts and all the ideas and everything, but he's just kind
of chilled out. And I think that she's worried
that that, yeah, that's a bad sign.
Yeah, well, it doesn't seem, I guess when they're both so busy
working too, it's like doesn't seem like they are spending time
together otherwise at the end of the day when they go to bed and
there's not much there. But like you said, I don't think
they really knew each other at the beginning of the
relationship anyway. So it's not really a good
dynamic. But it's funny.
I mean, we don't know how the beginning of the conversation
started, but it seems like it's not about anything.
There isn't like one incident that they're fighting about and
they're trying to problem solve. I guess maybe like the birthday
party, but it's more just like, I can't believe someone recorded
this. It's like a big like, I know,
conversation of like, oh, should we even be together?
That's so crazy. We have that.
It is crazy. It, it is like a super dramatic
conversation. It's not just them saying like,
oh, what time are you going to be home?
Like, OK, yeah, I picked up this.
I'll put it in the fridge. Like, you know, it's not just
like this boring conversation. It is like we're hanging on by a
thread. Seriously, do we know who
recorded that? Someone in Scientology I'm
guessing. No, it was actually a journalist
and it was a celebrity photographer somehow.
I don't know how he did it. I don't know how people do that
and hacking and everything, but recorded it and he was actually
fined and jailed for it. Wow, yeah, it does seem illegal.
I hope it's OK that we read it. Yeah, I think so.
I was just reading it off a website I I had nothing to do
with it. No, seriously, it's public
information. It's out there now.
Yeah, so crazy, man. I don't think either of them
came out very good in that conversation, I'll just say
that. But I mean, they didn't.
No one ever thought it would be out there.
So I do feel bad. But an associate said that it
seemed like Tom still loved Nicole but she had grown out of
love and was unhappy, he liked the chase and that she was
unattainable. This associate unnamed person
also described Tom as a jock and that he wasn't as sophisticated
as Nicole and that Nicole felt like she'd outgrown him.
Shortly after this or around this time Nicole starred in a
play called The Blue Room that was very sexual, had her do sex
scenes and appear naked on stage alongside her Co star Ian Glenn.
And apparently Tom and Ian did not get along and Ian would
flirt with Nicole right in front of Tom when they would go to
dinner. Ian was married too but there
were rumors that Nicole was having an affair with Ian.
And I was wondering, who is this guy?
And I googled him and I was like, Oh my God, because he was
on Game of Thrones and he is hot.
He was really, I mean, on Game of Thrones, he's like 50 or
something. And he's even hot on Game of
Thrones. But like when he was younger, he
was a really attractive guy. So yeah, he.
Is. She's beautiful, so I I can
understand her being maybe being attracted to him.
I don't know. And Tom being jealous crazy.
And apparently Tom went to see her in this play over 20 times.
So perhaps keeping an eye on her.
I'm just looking at pictures. Yeah, he is really attractive.
I know I've kind of sidetracked that plot line. 1999, They're
both beginning some big name projects.
Moulin Rouge, Mission Impossible Two.
Yeah, he had done Mission Impossible one already.
Magnolia. In early 1999, apparently Tom
received a notice from Scientology executives about a
potential trouble source his wife, because in a recent
interview, Nicole had said that she was a little Buddhist, a
little Scientology, and that she was raised Catholic in that a
big part of her was still a Catholic girl.
I guess they were concerned about that.
Very shortly after Eyes Wide Shut came out, the director
Stanley Kubrick died. And I guess Tom was really they
both were really distressed about this.
They had spent a lot of time with him and Tom sort of became
like a control freak over like handling the rest of the movie,
like the distribution of it and logistics of the movie.
So I guess he died before the movie came out and there were
more rumors coming around about their relationship and more
suing happens, more rumors about an affair.
There was this story about how Nicole was interviewing with a
journalist and apparently was on a hotel bed with the journalist,
apparently just flirting. And Tom called her from home and
she answered with the guy. And I don't know, I don't think
anything really came of it. But it seems like he's getting
like, overwhelmed, thinking that his wife is so sexy and all
these men are into her. And he was kind of freaking out.
But Tom had repeatedly said that he could handle the sex scenes
that she was in, and that everything he'd seen so far, he
could handle it. So do they have nannies watching
their kids? Yeah, OK.
I know when they first got their daughter they had two that were
on hand 24/7 so oh wow. I'm guessing they still did.
So now it's 2000 and December 2000 so I guess it's the end of
the year. On their 10th wedding
anniversary they renewed their vows.
However, things were actually not going that well between
them. I.
Cotton feels that case with celebrities like you renewing.
Yeah. I feel like you hear about these
celebrities, like, renewing their vows, and it gives the
impression that, oh, wow, they're a really solid couple.
But then like a year later, you hear that they get divorced.
And it almost seems like it's like a desperate last plea to
reignite their marriage. I remember John and Capless.
They did it. I remember.
I think Seal and Heidi Klum would do it like every single
year and it never actually means anything.
I wonder if it's because they go through this really difficult
time. Maybe she was cheating with Ian
Glenn. I don't know, like maybe or I
don't know, I don't want to put that on Nicole Kidman.
But maybe they were having a really horrible time and they
they kind of got through it and they're like, all right, like
let's let's start a new. But sometimes you can't really
forget things that happen. Especially if things keep
happening and things weren't going well.
He apparently wanted the children to grow up in
Scientology, but she did not. And she wanted to spend more
time in Sydney to be near her family.
And they both were still super career oriented, so it was
getting difficult to compromise in any way.
And in February 2001, February 4th on a Sunday, Tom's lawyers
provided documents to Nicole out of nowhere, announcing that Tom
wanted a divorce. Wow.
Less than two months after renewing their vows.
Yeah. That's so business like.
It's a business transaction at that point.
It's like the same way he did it with Mimi Rogers, just matter of
factly being like, I want a divorce.
Yes. Seriously, isn't there supposed
to be like a conversation? I know.
Wow. According to court documents,
she was shocked and suggested counseling, but he insisted that
the decision was final after 10 years together.
That's scary. I know.
Apparently Tom hired a detective to follow Nicole, but then this
detective got arrested for following her.
I guess I don't know. And Nicole hired her own Private
Eye to make sure no one was wiring her phone or anything.
It got really messy with a lot of other people involved.
Like, there's a lot to it, I could say.
But basically, it was just really messy.
And tragically, while details of their divorce were being worked
out, Nicole actually suffered a miscarriage because she'd been
pregnant, which is really sad. And that's like, such a horrible
time to be going through that. Yeah.
Did he know that she was pregnant when he issued the?
Divorce papers? I don't know if he did, but I
read that he sent flowers to her but did not visit.
Oh, that's shitty. I know like what the hell?
How how does that happen? Like you were so in love with
her, obsessed sending roses all the time.
If I got honestly, receiving flowers would be worse than
nothing at all. That's cold that that almost is
like salt in the wound at that point.
Seems like he just completely discarded her capital N
narcissist. And I, I don't know, this is me
just inferring and kind of reading between lines.
I mean, we don't know them. I know I probably shouldn't do
this but I feel like she was sort of in more of a power
position at this point and that she had a lot of men falling in
love with her. She was being really seen as
this, like, beautiful sexual lady.
And I feel like she was kind of losing interest, or at least she
was just branching out from him. I'm not saying that she wanted
to leave him, but I think that she was becoming more her own
person outside their marriage. And I feel like he couldn't
handle that. He wanted someone to be, like,
obsessed with him. And I feel like once he started
to feel that, that he was just like, OK, this is over.
But that's just me guessing. Yeah.
August 8th, 2001 they were officially no longer husband and
wife, but unfortunately they still had to do press for the
movie The Others, which she starred in and he was the
producer. So awkward.
Yeah, Nicole told a magazine after the divorce.
Now I can wear heels and everybody.
Laughed. Yeah.
And her career was doing really great.
After their marriage ended, she was nominated for best actress
for Moulin Rouge in 2001. And then she won best actress
for the Hours in 2002. And apparently she started
reconnecting with her Catholic faith, which is nice.
She was, you know, getting away from Scientology.
But even though that all sounds great and all, like she's on the
up and up, it's not that simple. Because even though they had
joint custody of their children, apparently behind closed doors,
the children remained apparently loyal to their father and
decided to live with him and were raised in the cult of
Scientology. How very suspicious.
Yeah, they would be young. Like if, if the oldest is like
one of the younger 1 is like my grade, right?
I said so. And that was 2001.
So like first grade. I guess the girl would be like
in 3rd grade or something. So what?
Why do you find it suspicious? I just don't even get how a kid
can decide that. Yeah.
And why even if a kid said that, like, why would it matter?
Like, it's not up to the kids, you know?
Yeah, especially if there's a court issue that they have joint
custody. Yeah.
Like I also feel like kids at
that age are just inherently bonded with their mother most.
Of the time. I know.
I just find it so weird. I can't really wrap my head
around it. So Katie Holmes, that's a whole
other story. But when she started dating Tom
Cruise, and this is jumping ahead, I guess she did very much
step into the role as like stepmom to them.
And I guess Nicole mostly kept in touch with them over e-mail
and webcam, but she didn't really see them that much.
And I just and people think it's because of the whole Scientology
thing. You know, she was seen as a what
is the phrase like problematic person or but I just I still
don't get how that could happen though.
How legally could she not really see her children or like how
would they end up with Tom? Like I just, I don't get it.
And those kids were so young, like, it's not like they would
be willing to make that decision to not see their mom because
she's not a Scientologist anymore.
Like a kid, what does that matter?
But I guess maybe they're so indoctrinated, it indoctrinated
at such a early age that like, maybe they believe like, oh,
someone leaving Scientology, they're a bad person.
And I bet Tom Cruise maybe was like, telling the kids stuff
that turned them against Nicole, like maybe saying she cheated on
me. She's the reason our family is
breaking up, like traumatizing those kids in some way to
abandon their mother. Yeah.
Maybe I, I just, I can't, I don't know.
I mean, I think obviously the problem like is Tom, but I am
just questioning what was going on with Nicole.
Like I just don't get. Yeah.
Why she couldn't just like just take the kids?
Like I don't, I just don't get watching see them.
Like I can't, I can't figure it out.
Yeah, like maybe. Was she not fighting hard enough
for them? I don't know.
Seems like somehow Katie Holmes was able to get her daughter
out. Yeah.
Like what did she do that Nicole didn't?
I don't know and I don't I just I have I'd have to research more
the Katie Holmes things. I don't even get OK, like her
just like threatening them. Are they like threatening their
life? Like how serious is this?
Like, why can't you see your kids?
I just I don't the law would be on their side.
I think they don't like Scientologists.
Like, I just don't get how the this cult could, yeah, do this.
And even if they were threatening to like, do they
have something on Nicole? What would even be worth it to?
Like, I feel like no matter what my darkest secret is, like I
don't, I wouldn't care. I would let it be out there.
Is it Tom's? Are they blackmailing him?
Like who cares what his secret is?
Like I just. I can't wrap my head around this
scenario. Yeah, I know.
I guess only if they were threatening your life would you
back off, but even then, I feel like a parental, a parent's love
is like so strong that you would fight for your kids so
wholeheartedly. Because could she, I mean, it
would be really messy and difficult, but couldn't she take
them? And like, how did he even get
custody? Like, couldn't she say, like,
he's in a cult? Yeah.
Like, give me my kids. Like, I just don't understand
how this happened. Yeah, I don't know.
I don't get it either. But that's so weird.
She apparently hasn't been pictured with her adopted
children, with Tom since 2007. She could have still seen them,
but what? It wasn't photographed.
And she apparently was devastated after her kids didn't
attend her father's funeral in 2014.
So, I mean, now the kids are older still 2014, like, well, I
don't know. That's.
Yeah, they would be like college age.
I guess so. Yeah.
I guess they decided they they wanted to stick to Scientology
and to stick with Tom, which is crazy.
I know, but I guess yeah. If she had been more of a
present in their life, would they have bonded with her more?
To be so loyal to Tom, they must.
Those kids must have been so brainwashed.
I'd have to assume from such an early age that like it was
almost impossible for her to win them over in some way.
It's sad, It's really sad. Like they had, I just can't even
imagine that. I mean, being with your kid
every day, they're your children and and then you.
Know, I feel like the different element here is like they're not
with their kids every day, like they have a nanny that's
watching them most of the time. So like, I hate to say, like is
the bond not as strong? Maybe, yeah, there's just
something weird about beyond just even the fact that Gab like
the Scientologist, there's just something weird.
About it, I know I always find it so odd about like these
celebrities who are estranged with their kids, but like as a
public figure, we know that like I feel like it's pretty taboo in
real life. Like you probably have a friend
or some someone who like doesn't speak to their one of their
parents or whatever, but like to know that like a parent doesn't
speak to their kid. It's such a sad thing to think
about and it's just weird that like we know that the whole
world knows that you don't have this relationship.
It's something that's so personal, but.
Yeah, she has recently talked about it and she's to Who
Magazine and said I'm very private about all all that I
have to protect all those relationships.
I know 150% that I would give up my life for my children because
it's what my purpose is. They are able to make their own
decisions. They have made choices to be
Scientologists and as a mother, it's my job to love them.
And she added that Connor and Isabella are adults.
Yeah, that is interesting though, because saying that I
would give up my life for them. Like if there was any type of
blackmail when they were younger, she definitely was in
the position where she could fight for the kids to be with
her at least half of the time. Yeah.
Maybe she did up to a point, but they just like didn't want to
see her. I don't know.
So right after the relationship, Tom.
So rewinding a little bit, he actually briefly dated Penélope
Cruz, which one is weird because it's almost the same last name
but just spelled differently. True.
Pronounce the same, too. Odd because he courted her
basically the same way as he did with Nicole.
Like he saw her in a movie and he wanted to work with her and
was like, let's get her to be in the movie.
And then it overlapped at the end with Nicole, actually.
And Nicole said that he swore up and down that there's nothing
going on with Penélope Cruz. But then they were together.
Oh, that's disturbing. And then he dated Sofia Vergara
actually, which I. Don't know.
I didn't know that. I know.
And then Katie Holmes, of course, and they had their
daughter Siri Cruz, who's 18 now.
And it as, as you said, it's believed that Tom has no
involvement in her life, Nicole. After their divorce, she was
rumoured to be dating the Counting Crows frontman Adam
Duritz and Russell Crowe. And then she was briefly engaged
to Lenny Kravitz, which I find crazy because then she was in
Big Little Lies with his daughter later in life.
And then she married Keith Urban.
And they had two daughters, Sunday Rose and Faith Margaret.
And that's where she is today. Tom, I feel like, is trying to
have kind of a comeback. But I do feel like Scientology
has sort of ruined his reputation, You know, people,
people do think, I think people still do have like nostalgia for
his early movies, and people kind of miss that.
But I do think in a way now when people think of him, they're a
little creeped out by. Yeah, he scares people.
And I feel like he, the alpha male thing has gone too far.
I know during COVID there was like a video that came out a
couple years ago where he was like yelling at everybody on set
about mask mandates and stuff and.
Yeah, like, Oh my gosh. Even if you are on his side,
it's like you should not be speaking to people like that at
work. How would you speak to people
behind closed doors? Nicole and Keith do seem really
happy. I'm happy for her.
Yeah, they do. They're still together.
I feel like it's been a long time.
They always are standing, like so close to each other, like
holding hands. I've noticed like at award
shows, they're very touchy. He seems like a gentle soul.
Keith Urban. I know nothing about him but.
You know more than me. I don't.
I don't even know that. But, but good.
I hope. I hope they stick together.
Odds that Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise get back together.
Oh, nothing. I don't even think they're so
interesting though in Hollywood. Like they had such a contentious
relationship, but I bet they've been in the same room since
then. I mean, this woman acts like
she's in so many freaking thing. As I said in the beginning with
because Charlie and I were looking at her after I rented
the movie, we were looking at her little.
It was on Amazon, like her actor profile and all her movies.
And I just couldn't believe it. Like, Oh my gosh, she's in this
and this and this and this and this.
Like, yeah, they must have been in the same room.
That's. Wild.
And that's kind of. Sad too, though, because if
she's like estranged from their kids, yeah, and then she's at
like an award show and sees. Their dad, like, that's crazy,
yeah. That's.
Weird. I wonder if she's in a way kind
of like giving up on having a relationship with those kids.
Maybe, maybe he just wants to throw in the towel on the whole
cruise thing. I mean that could have.
I was thinking that too, that could have been it, like maybe
she just really wanted to leave Tom behind, that she, I hate to
say but like was willing to just let him have custody so she
didn't have to deal with him. But I would hope not.
Spooky. I know it actually is really
creepy. Scientologists.
Have you ever watched Leah Remini's documentary?
I've watched a little bit about she is she was like a she was
raised a Scientologist from the time she was young and I was
like as a kid, I guess. Sounds like some crazy stuff,
like even like Danny Masterson who was on That 70s Show.
He is a Scientologist and like he wow, trigger warning.
He was arrested for raping women and his accusers claim that the
Church of Scientology sent people to poison their dogs.
They're like what dogs And kill them to silence them and to not
speaking out. My God against him.
Maybe she did. Fear for her life or their life.
Yeah. I mean, maybe that's easy.
Tom is so high up there. Yeah.
I wonder if he still like loves it or if he feels trapped.
Yeah, I know. Because in a way, like you said,
his power or his reputation in Hollywood is hindered by
Scientology at this point. Yeah, but it seems like he's
sticking with it. Well, that's Nicole Kidman and
Tom Cruise. Well, that was so.
Interesting. Thanks, Cal.
Who are we talking about next? Week, next week, I'm sticking
with the Halloween theme. This is a very gothic couple.
I would say it is a novelist and a poet, and it's another
historic 1, and that's all I'll say about that.
Was that too vague? Well.
People, there are always people who guess it each week.
And if you guys want to guess, every week on our Instagram, the
day before the episode comes out, we ask you guys to put your
guess in about who it's going to be.
And it's so fun every week to see who people think.
It is so fun. So yeah, thank you guys
listening and we'll get back together next week.
Bye. Is your heart filled with pain?
Shall I come back again? Tell.
Me dear heart, you, Lord.