Are you lonesome tonight? Do you miss me tonight?
Are you sorry? Hi guys.
Welcome back to Significant Lovers.
I'm Mel. And I'm Kel.
We're two cousins. Two cousins and best friends and
we love talking about love. I truly do.
I'm so excited to be here. This is our first episode of the
New year well that we've recorded in the New year and it
feels like it's been a while. Yeah, because it kind of has
when. It does, yeah.
So thanks everybody for listening.
Who are we talking about today, Mel?
So today we are talking about model and entrepreneur Karlie
Kloss and her husband, Joshua Kushner.
Billionaire Joshua Kushner, also entrepreneur.
He is most famous probably for being the younger brother of
Jared Kushner, the son-in-law and former advisor to Donald
Trump. And I feel like this couple,
someone from recommended this couple a couple months ago.
They're intriguing, I think, for multiple reasons, like one
because of that political connection and the controversy
that is tied to that, but also the distance that they have
tried to establish for themselves from the Trump
administration while also being very closely related to Jared
and Ivanka, and also, of course, the conspiracies about Karlie
Kloss and Taylor Swift. And you know, that's not going
to be a big part of this episode because Full disclosure, I'm not
a Gaylor. I'm not, you know, we we just
did our Larry episode. I can understand.
Yeah, that was last. Week.
Yeah, I can understand, you know, how people fall down those
rabbit holes, but that's not going to be a part of this
episode. So Gaylor is the theory.
Anyone that doesn't know? Because a lot of people don't
know. I know, yeah.
The theory, the conspiracy theory that Taylor Swift, the
singer, I mean, I think everyone knows who she is, had a
relationship with Karlie. Kloss.
Yes. But all of that takes place
during the timeline in which Karlie Kloss was dating Joshua
Kushner. So I I did a little research to
be like, OK, like why do people then believe that they were
dating and she clearly had a boyfriend, but people think that
Josh is secretly gay and that Carly was his.
Oh Oh my gosh. Actually after 'cause I was
editing the Larry episode recently and then I went on
YouTube. I've done this before, but I was
watching a lot of Larry clips and I got to say, if anyone it's
still skeptical, I urge you to go watch some videos of Larry
because it was convincing me. Yeah, I actually think I really
believe it now. I mean, there's some of the
parts to Caitlin didn't mention. I was like, what the heck, why
didn't you mention this? But I guess there's just too
much. But anyway, I'm getting
sidetracked. Before we get into the episode,
you know, on the podcast, we've talked a lot about how mental
health can affect relationships and we recently learned of an
organization that is doing a lot of important work to combat OCD
in relationships. Yeah, it's called no CD.
And you know, OCD is more than what you see on TV and in the
movies. If you imagine having unwanted
thoughts about your relationship stuck in your head all day, no
matter how hard you try to make them go away, that's
relationship OCD, which I feel like is a less known about type
of OCD, but it comes with unrelenting intrusive images,
thoughts and urges about your partner, a loved one.
And breaking the OCD cycle takes effective treatment.
You can go to no CD, so that's NOCD dot com to get evidence
based treatment. And on no CD you can book a call
with a face to face licensed therapist.
And no CD is sponsored by most insurance companies.
So yeah, it's a really cool organization that I feel like is
pretty relevant to our show and anybody that's struggling with a
breakup. If you know someone, a loved one
that is maybe having issues with relationship OCD, then you
should tell them about no CD. But I have listened to some
podcasts about the Taylor Carly theory and I haven't really been
convinced yet. But I'm intrigued to hear a
little bit more also about like what Carly was also doing
otherwise in her life, you know? I feel like people don't really
see Carly as her own person. They see her as an extension.
And I feel like people really don't like Carly because they're
suspicious of her, maybe because they think, you know, she's so,
you know, tightly associated with the Trump family.
And then also obviously it seems like there was some type of
falling out with Taylor Swift and so that makes people
automatically not like her. But I will say that I can
totally see why Carly and Taylor were good friends, because
they're both really tall, they're both blonde, he kind of
look alike. And they both they do to have
very much a business focus to them and their personalities
just seem very similar. So I don't really sense anything
romantic, just more like twins in a way.
Mm hmm. I really don't know anything
about this couple, so I'm really intrigued all.
Right. Well, let's get into it.
So, Carly, She was born August 3rd, 1992 in Chicago.
She's the second child among four daughters.
Her parents were Tracy, a freelance director, and her dad,
Kurt, was an ER doctor. And when she was just we
toddler, her family moved to Saint Louis and she grew up
studying ballet. She always saw herself becoming
a professional dancer and she was also on the cheerleading
squad at her high school. Oh.
Cheerleader. Yeah, you know, Miss Popular.
And then at 14, Carly was at the mall when a modeling agent
approached her, which I feel like always is happening.
I know. What the heck?
Models. People just come up to them and
say, wow, you're gorgeous, you should do some modeling.
And so they recommended that she walk in a charity runway fashion
show. And then that led her to getting
booked for her first modeling job for Calvin Klein.
And she would then go back and forth between Saint Louis and
New York for modeling gigs before permanently relocating to
New York City, I think at like 15 or 16.
And by 15, she had walked in over 64 fashion shows for
designers like Alexander Wang, Marc Jacobs, Christian Dior and
Dolce and Gabbana. And to describe Carly, she's
described herself or others have described her as a homebody.
She loves baking cookies. Like, see, that's so Taylor
Swift to me. She's described herself as being
a big math and science nerd. I've read that she's very kind,
but I do get the sense that she's very media trained.
She's very polished. Like a lot of her interviews
seem a little scripted, but that's OK.
Like you want to. I can see that thing.
Yeah, you know the like interview.
Not to bring up Taylor Swift one more time, but like the
interview she does like a 76 questions, like Vogue thing.
Carly. Yeah, you know, the, you know,
when the Vogue videos, were they like, oh, yes, yes, yes.
I mean, I think most of those are scripted.
But the guy asks her like, what's the truth about you and
Taylor Swift? And she goes, The world wants to
know, or Jennifer Lawrence wants to know because, like, Jennifer
Lawrence made a joke about it one time and she's like, don't
worry, Jen, We're still good friends.
It's like, OK, no, like, that's not people really do want to
know you're not that stupid. But I.
Hate how scripted those things are, but some people's do feel
more or less scripted. Yeah.
Oh my. It's kind of embarrassing
watching those. It's.
It's so interesting, you know, just thinking about different
personalities of people that become famous and like, who are
the people that want to be, you know, put themselves out there
and be wacky and weird, whatever.
And then there's some people that just want to, you know, be
professional, just not really express themselves that much.
They're just getting by on saying nice things and.
I mean, yeah, it's like mysterious.
Yeah. I watched the Simone Biles Vogue
one and she seems so sweet, but it's so awkward because she just
answers the question. But that's realistically how a
lot of people probably would because like, she's an athlete.
She's not trying to be like character.
But when you watch other people's like Taylor Swift's or
like Lively's or something, they're really trying to go for
some type of personality here. But anyway, anyways, yeah, I
would say she's polished. She seems pretty driven and like
I said, also pretty business oriented.
I don't know much about her, but even I know that she had some
stem. Yep.
Coding thing. She's doing that will come up
because I feel like that is heavily influenced by her
relationship with Josh. Oh, OK and to be?
Honest. I don't even know if he goes by
Josh. I'm just going to call him
Joshua. He's born June 12th, 1985, and
he was born into a family of real estate developers, starting
with his grandfather Joseph Kushner, who had escaped the
Holocaust. And then he founded what would
become a huge real estate profile of over 4000 apartment
buildings in New Jersey. And he then left those
properties to his sons, one of which was named Charles Kushner,
who is Josh's Joshua's dad, who founded Kushner Companies, which
grew to include commercial and residential properties in New
York City, which is now worth around $2 billion.
Wow, so Chuck Bass. Really.
Chuck Bass? And so Charles and his wife
Sarah had four kids, Dara, Jared, Nicole and Joshua and
Joshua and his siblings were raised in an incredibly affluent
town called Livingston, NJ, and they were raised as Modern
Orthodox Jews. And he told Forbes in 2012 that
on holidays his dad would take him to construction sites to
hunt for potential real estate, saying the idea was when
everyone is relaxing, you should be working.
The ball doesn't come to you. So intense.
I know, really intense. I feel like they had a very
buttoned up, very rigid childhood and the family is
going to come up throughout this episode and this is going to be
the theme of the episode. It's like, you know, you don't
just marry a person, you marry their family.
And like, to what degree is that important to you if you don't
really like the family? But yeah, it seems like they
were pretty strict about the standards that they had for
their kids. Yeah, I believe he attended
Fresh High School, which is a Modern Orthodox private school.
That I say, I believe because I know that his older brother
Jared did, But not much is known about Josh.
He's definitely the quieter sibling of the two.
Well, there's four above the two brothers.
And then in 2004, he enrolled in Harvard University as a
government and political science major.
And I guess I don't know if this is relevant for Josh, but five
years earlier his older brother Jared also went to Harvard, one
year after their parents had made a $2.5 million donation to
the school. And so I don't know if they also
made a donation for Josh attending the school.
But it just seems like this is a family that has a lot of money
and they're going to do what they can to, you know, have
their kids get ahead. Right.
Hello, Harvard. Yo.
Yeah, they they probably are getting any Kushner in Harvard.
Yeah, if they want to exactly. So, Gossip Girl.
I know, it's really Gossip Girl. And so this was also around the
time when Mark Zuckerberg was at Harvard and had.
Oh my gosh, the Facebook. That's so exciting.
I know. And so everyone at this point
was like trying to come up with a business in their dorm rooms.
And so together Josh with his two classmates, pulled together
around $10,000 to create a social network company called
Vostu, which was a Facebook alternative targeted towards
Brazil. And it flocked.
But it later became a Brazilian gaming app, and because of this
business, he rarely attended classes and would often be
flying back and forth from, my God, Latin America.
Yeah, I don't know if that's still the craze, but there
definitely was a time period when it was.
So like all these people in college, including like
Elizabeth Holmes, the I forget what her business is called, but
it was like the thing to do to be at a prestigious school and
come up with a business while you're there and drop out.
Yeah, I kind of hate that. I would be so like finish, you
know? Yeah, just finish.
Like just enjoy school. I don't know.
I I would just be so unattracted to that if I was like like.
And then it just seems like that's all they care about is
their stupid little business and making money and.
I don't know. Well, I don't know if it's
stupid little Mel. I mean, some of these people
become like billionaires. I know.
I don't know. But, you know, be young and stop
trying to be like Bill Gates or something.
I don't know. I You're right, though.
They do become successful. So then in 2005, Joshua's dad,
Charles he was arrested and sentenced to two years in prison
and charged a $40,000 fine for tax evasion, witness tampering
and illegal campaign donations. Oh my goodness.
Kind of embarrassing, so I'm sorry to keep bringing this up,
but so, Nate Archibald. No, yeah, I was just thinking
that. Gossip Girl.
Yeah. I mean, I haven't watched
succession, but is that kind of succession like like people are?
No. Kind of, yeah.
I don't think no one goes to prison for that reason.
But yeah, kind of, yeah. Covering stuff up, yeah.
I almost wonder if Gossip Girl definitely had a lot of real
life influences. I wonder if that story maybe was
inspired by the Kushner family, because at that point, like they
were like a prominent known real estate family.
Maybe. So he had other business
ventures. In 2010, at just 24 years old,
Josh was loaned $5,000,000 to launch Thrive Capital, which is
a venture capital firm focused on media and internal
investments. Did you just gasp with the
$5,000,000? Yeah, that's crazy.
The company was one of the very first investors of Instagram and
now has investments in so many large Internet companies
including Spotify, GitHub, Slack, Open AI, you name it.
And now it's estimated to have a net worth of $3.6 billion.
So very successful. But I will say like he became
very like obviously at a $5,000,000 loan, but his success
is independent from the real estate company that his family
had established. So it seems like he obviously
must have some talents and a strong work ethic independent
from his family's wealth. Yeah.
And I would describe him obviously having an
entrepreneurial mindset, very business oriented.
Like Carly, he seems kind of serious and also quiet.
He's been described as having boyishly handsome looks and
works like a dog. So how would you describe this
relationship in three words? Oh, I would say low key,
wealthy, obviously. And mysterious.
So all right, it's so mysterious that I don't totally know how
they met, but they definitely either met or became official in
2000, June of 2012, cause four years later Carly would describe
that as their four year anniversary on Instagram.
OK, so it's unclear, like, totally how they met.
But they were introduced, seemingly by socialite Derek
Blasberg, who's a mutual friend of theirs.
Because years later, at their wedding, he would post a photo
of them the day they met. And he said, I took this pic The
night that Karlie Kloss met Joshua Kushner in 2012.
We told Joshua Kushner that Karlie Kloss could dunk a
basketball. It was a lie, but their hearts
went swish so. Was he tagging him or why was he
doing first name? Last name with those flags.
OK, I know. Yeah, sorry.
But that's interesting. And in the photo, Josh is
wearing a cowboy hat and Carly was wearing Bunny ears.
And then an August Instagram founder, Kevin Systrom posted a
photo of them embracing on the beach from far away and he
captioned it. I think my friend likes her.
So that's back in 2012. And remember, like Josh was a
very early investor of Instagram and so actually Carly first made
her Instagram account June 2012 when she met Josh.
He probably said you gotta invest in this, like you gotta
make an account. I'm an investor, so.
Yeah, I don't think I I didn't make an account until 2014 or
so. Yeah, it took me a while too,
but. I was a little late.
I remember my friend Lauren was like, you can post selfies on
here. Like you can't do that on
Facebook. I know I remember at first being
so confused, like why do we need a different app just for
pictures, but I don't know. I feel like Facebook could have
been great. I don't.
I don't know. It's just kind of like the mood
changed. But I feel like the platform
itself had. Everything there I know, but
like the newsfeed changed so much and like everyone's parents
got Facebook and it the live just changed.
I just spent because my boyfriend just requested me on
Facebook. And wow.
After a couple months, But I was like, oh gosh, I'm going to
clean my Facebook up a little bit before I accept it.
So I just spent about like 30 minutes going through my old
Facebook statuses. Not that I think he'd scroll all
the way down, but I was like, I don't.
I don't know. I gotta.
Yeah, I've never done that. I've just kept everything.
I was annoyed by how the settings didn't make it easy for
me to do it, though I was having trouble.
There's like way too much in the settings, but not the tangent.
I know, yeah. Anyway, yeah, so many tech
business guys. I know, Yeah, I think that
really influences Carly. So then in November, Us Weekly
is the first report that Carly and Josh are dating when they
attend the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show after party
together. And they say after walking the
runway in several super skimpy getups, the flawless American
born supermodel 20 hit in a after party with a very lucky
guy on her arm. New York City based investor
Joshua Kushner, The 27 year old Instagram investor seemed
nervous and shy around everyone, but handled it well.
Carly is stunning and the sweetest girl ever.
She's stuck close to him. All right, sweet happening.
Meanwhile, the Daily Mail reports that Carly has purchased
her first home in the West Village in order to be close to
her new boyfriend. Jealous.
Then we're 2013. Around this time, Josh starts
posting a lot of photos of Carly, but they're always like
of her back from far away. And he posts a photo of her at
Coachella with the caption Coachella.
And then they made the yes, yeah.
Then they made their first appearance together as a couple
at the Robin Hood Foundation Gala in New York City, and
they're photographed together throughout New York by paparazzi
pretty frequently, but not much is known about them as a couple.
But apparently these years and their relationship were pretty
challenging because Joshua's family heavily disapproved of
her for one, not being Jewish, and two because she was
Victoria's Secret model, which they believed was beneath the
family and they This would all be alleged in an expose about
the Kushner family, which came out years later in 2019.
And apparently the whole family would talk poorly about Karlie
behind her back and they would call her the lingerie model.
And Joshua's parents refused to meet her for six years and
banned Josh from bringing her to any family functions.
Wow, I did not know that. Yeah, and wow.
Apparently they also had issues with Ivanka Trump, but they were
a lot more open to her because she went to an Ivy League school
and she came obviously from another high profile real estate
family. So, like, from a business
standpoint, she was lucrative to them.
Wow. That would be tough for me.
I feel like if I was that early in a relationship.
I mean, granted she's so young, I don't know if, if I knew that
family like hated me. I don't know if I would be able
to keep pushing forward. That would be really hard.
Wait, so how old was she around this time?
21 and he's in his late 20s. What you were saying earlier
about some people say that he was gay and she was a Taylor
Swift. Like, why would she bother with
this really difficult family if it was exactly it?
Seems weird to me. If he was gay and needed a cover
up, why would he be doing that with like someone his family
disapproved of? Yeah, that doesn't make sense.
It's already like if if he was gay and he needed to cover up,
it'd probably be because of his family.
So why would he then date someone that his family hates?
Yeah, and if he's super rich and good looking, he could probably
find a more convenient cover up. Exactly so.
But I asked you guys, 'cause you know, like when you marry
someone, you also marry their family.
And so I said, with this in mind, would you still marry
someone? We're skipping ahead like
they're married now? Spoiler Would you still marry
someone even if you hated their family or they hated you, 'cause
like, she's also gonna. There's also gonna be conflict
once like the Trump's come in. And interestingly, 37% said yes,
true love is worth it, but the majority of people, 63%, said
no. I have to protect my peace.
Wow wait, I missed this poll, Mel.
Yeah, this was a couple hours ago.
Quick people. So quick to.
Vote. They are.
I really want to read some of your responses.
We asked this on Patreon, by the way.
Sierra said yes or no. It's hard.
I put yes because if your relationship with the person is
healthy and they stand up for you and uphold boundaries with
their shit family, then it could still work.
But if you don't have a good relationship with your own
family, you might want to prioritize a good relationship
with your partner's family. So then you may have to give it
up. And Devin said such a hard
question definitely depends on the relationship you have with
your potential spouse. If they're going to stick up for
you and be willing to always pick you, then I think true love
is worth it. But if there's a chance it'll
cause tension between you as a couple, or if your spouse will
have resentment over the situation, then probably not
worth it. And Aaron said so.
If my partner didn't have a good relationship with his family,
then it's not their fault and it won't really matter as much if
the family hates me or I hate them.
But if they're super close and get on really well and they hate
me, then like red flag question mark.
I totally agree with everything said.
Like I feel like it depends on how much your partner is willing
to stick up for you. Yeah, totally it.
It would depend. I think if your relationship is
already kind of rocky and then that is a thing going on too,
then I think it's not worth it. But yeah, I I agree with what
everybody said. Like if you're super in love and
if your partner's there for you and sticks up for you or
whatever the heck situation is, then yeah, I think, I don't
think you would let that get between you.
But that's tough. That's tough.
I don't know. It's tough for me to tell how
close Josh is with his family because he's never said anything
bad about them. But everything I read does
indicate that he is very close with his brother Jared, and they
just agree to disagree when it comes to politics and the whole
Donald Trump of the matter. But regarding his two parents, I
I wonder if there is. I mean, I'm sure the Carly
situation created conflict, but I wonder if he is not super
close with them just because he chose not to go into the family
business of real estate and like seemingly has done his own.
Thing that is hard that. I mean, I feel like it would be
hard to to be the one that has the difficult family because
that's your family. Like even if they are difficult
or causing problems, it's a lot to ask someone to.
It's it's like impossible I think to ask someone to like not
care about your parents or your family.
Yeah that's your family. Like you don't have another one.
And I know some people do disown their family, but I don't know.
I just think that would be really, really hard, even if you
disagree with them on a lot of things.
Yeah, exactly like this is only family.
Yeah. But.
I mean, that's who he calls. If he's like, if he's
distressed, if he needs help like that, that's who you go to,
you know, like you, you can't like, really replace that.
Yeah, exactly. Although I don't know what it's
like. Family life is like for the
Super elite and rich like that. Like, I wonder if it is a little
colder. Me neither.
But this here's the thing and I get it.
Like, it is such a cultural thing.
Like I'm I'm not a super religious person, but to me it's
like, don't you just want your kids to find love?
Whoever it might be, That's really how it should be.
It's it's always sad to me when parents are like, you know,
unaccepting of the their partner for whatever reasons.
I guess religion is yeah, honestly almost seems like
religion takes a back seat in this case to just the fact that
she was a model because like I said they were pretty accepting
of Ivanka eventually. Granted, she also she had to
convert in order to get married. But.
Well, if they're orthodox, sounds like they're more
traditional. So I guess being a model, it
goes against like their values. I don't know, maybe that's why.
I think that's a big part of it. But so the couple you know, they
continue to date in June. They went to Iceland together on
a trip. They posted pictures.
Seems like they're having fun together.
Travelling in 2014. This is when Carly, I feel like
she starts to become more famous because she's very close friends
with Taylor at this point and they're hanging out a lot
together, which is seemingly a big part of the timeline in the
Gaylor lore. And you know what?
It is interesting because I will say Carly doesn't post Josh a
lot during this time, pretty much very infrequently.
I think he made his first debut on her Instagram in January 2014
with a picture of him that she simply captions at.
Joshua Kushner is usually behind the camera, and then she posted
a picture of him with his back turned and no hashtags or
anything. What does she mean by that?
Like, I don't take pictures of him.
He takes pictures of me. So yeah, but I don't think that
means anything. Like, we've talked about this
several times. What episode even was it?
You're talking a lot about how people say.
Ariana. Some people don't.
Yeah. Yeah, I don't think it means
anything. No, I don't.
Really, everybody has like their own relationship to.
Exactly. Especially like if his parents
are still not approving, you might be keeping it on the down
low. Yeah, and maybe she just doesn't
want there to be a ton of comments about him from people
saying, like, who's? That, yeah, exactly.
I don't know. Exactly.
So then in February, she's doing an interview with Metro US and
she's asked if she believes in love at first sight.
And she says yes, I do. I was definitely not planning on
falling in love, but I think that's the thing about it.
You can't anticipate or plan it. And then in 2015, Carly takes a
break from modeling and she decides to go back to college
enrolling in NYU. But The funny thing is, I found
an article from back then which is from NYU local, which I think
it's like a student writing this and they're questioning if she
actually attends the school because one really never seen on
campus, she apparently didn't have an NYU e-mail or like an
account set up and. What?
She at one point, the person's really over analyzing it like
they're going through her Instagram and she's they're
like, OK, so she's at Coachella while finals are going on or
something like that. And then she's going to all
these different events and stuff.
And then like at one point Carly posts a photo where she captions
it back to school and it looks like she's studying.
But actually, the photo was taken five years prior for a
Teen Vogue. What?
Are you kidding? Me.
No. It's so funny.
It's like, does she actually go here?
And then later in the article there's a update saying that
there was an anonymous tip that she showed up to class for the
first time 3 weeks into the semester and she just didn't
even say anything. What So?
That's crazy. Yeah, for the first time.
Yeah, the class had already been going on for three weeks.
Wow. I don't know.
I mean, maybe she had special accommodations as a model, but I
feel like back then, like, people didn't really do online
schooling as much. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think she
was she she was enrolled, technically, but I don't know if
she was really going to classes. That's hilarious.
That somebody noticed that. OK, she's at Kotella, but
there's, you know, class going on.
What the heck? Yeah, but apparently she then
would go on to study computer science, which led her to
launching her own business called Code With Classy, which
is dedicated to leading coding boot camps aimed at helping
young girls learn how to code. And she said that like she was
inspired because she's always been a big math and science
nerd. And that she was partly inspired
because of her friend, Instagram founder Kevin Systrom, who I
think she knows through Josh. But I also came across a blind
item that apparently Josh had told Carly that she would need
to stop modelling for Victoria's Secret in order for them to keep
going with their relationship. So I can't help but wonder is,
you know, going back to college and starting her own business,
especially a STEM business, a little bit motivated by seeking
the approval of his family. Maybe, but I will say it is a
smart move to make because most people cannot get the same jobs
that they do for that long. That's true.
You do age out of it, unfortunately.
I wish that wasn't the case, I really do.
But yeah, they have like teenagers on those runways,
early 20s, maybe mid 20s, but then it kind of ends.
It's not a dependable career. That is really true.
I always thought that was funny that she got into.
That was like, is that why he's like a backup career?
I don't know. I really do wonder how well she
can code I'm. Curious.
I wonder. Because it seems so interesting.
It seems like she's more the face of it from a business
standpoint. But like, I don't really.
I don't know if she's really like a programmer.
I'm not sure. So then, in 2016, April Carly
took Josh to the Time 100 Gala, and in June she professed her
love for Josh on Instagram for their four year anniversary.
But soon after that, they were photographed by paparazzi in New
York and what appeared to be an animated argument while walking
through the West Village. They both appeared visibly
emotional with angry body language, their arms flailing
like up and down in the air. You know the gestures that one
makes when they're angry. Yes, you can really tell that
they're in some type of fight. Not sure what it's about, but
they must have made-up because then in July they both attend
Taylor's famous 4th of July party that year in Rhode Island.
Josh is photographed in several of the group photos and a lot of
the Polaroids with Carly, so he's definitely in that squad at
that point. So again, I find it hard to
believe that any relationship was going on.
But but also this year Josh had posted much less frequently Carl
photos of Carly on his Instagram.
He actually didn't post her for an entire year.
But of course we can liken that to the fact that Josh is now
thrust further into the spotlight than he had ever been
before. He was pretty much a private
person, but based off his affiliation with his brother
Jared, who is now actively campaigning for his brother or
his father-in-law, Donald Trump, people are looking into like
who? Who is Jared Kushner?
And like what? Where does he come from?
And oh, he has a brother and oh, his brother's dating Karlie
Kloss. Yeah, and that would make sense
why he would pose to. Us.
Yeah. And I feel like he was being
protective of her. But it's interesting because
because of this connection, like this is when people also start
speculating and wondering if Taylor Swift might have been a
secret Trump supporter. Because there's all these
articles back then that are like, she's connected to the
Kushner family, but Carly and Josh are like, they make it
pretty obvious that they're not Trump supporters.
So it's so weird that like that was held against Taylor Swift I.
Mean he can't help what his brother's doing, and yeah, she
can't help what her boyfriend's brother's doing.
I don't know, it just seems a bit dramatic to me.
Yeah, and like they but, like, they make it pretty obvious.
But I feel like people like, let it just, like go over their
heads. Like, Josh told Esquire magazine
that he loves his brother and didn't want to say anything to
embarrass him, yet wanted it on the record that he's a lifelong
Democrat and would not be voting for Trump.
And then in November, Carly posted a photo of her voting and
she actually did the hashtag. I'm with her like for Hillary
Clinton. So it's like, they make it
pretty obvious, but people still buy association, are suspicious
of them. And then in January, Josh
attended the inauguration without Carly, though.
And then the very next day he attended the Women's March in DC
the day after the inauguration. And that got a lot of headlines
because it's like, oh, like he's going to this like anti Trump
protest when his brother was just sworn in as the advisor for
Trump. But then a day later, he posted
a photo of himself inside the White House with Jared posing in
front of JF KS official portrait, and it seems like he's
trying to send a message that he still supports his brother
despite disagreeing with him politically.
But Carly is like. Interesting.
He's like totally on two sides. Yeah, he really is.
He's quiet about it though. It's like he is like, I feel
like he wanted to be seen at the Women's March, but he doesn't.
He must like really still, like, be big on family because he
doesn't want to be going against his brother or like he doesn't
want that to be. Such drama.
I know, Awkward. So then he's profiled in Forbes
and they write. When he does leave the city,
it's upstate to Stone cabin with a big fireplace and plenty of
privacy. Sometimes Karlie Kloss joins
him. Other times it's just him.
Just him. Yeah.
Wow. What is he doing?
Maybe he likes his solitude, I don't know.
He's a cabin man. Yeah, I get it.
Sometimes I want to do that too. I don't know where I would go.
Like, he wants to be, like out of the drama.
Carly has done interviewed by In Style, and she's asked how she
has time for romance amid her busy schedule.
And she says you make it work. We've been together almost five
years. Time flies.
It's crazy. He's a super solid dude.
I guess if you really were deep in the conspiracy theories,
you'd be like, that's a pretty generic answer, like.
Wait, that's a pretty what? Generic answer, but what else is
she going to say? Yeah, it's tough sometimes.
I don't know what to say when people are like how's Charlie or
like. You know, tell me about your
boyfriend. Like, I don't know what to like.
He's a great guy. Like, I say something like that
sometimes. I don't know.
Yeah, no, it's like, what is she supposed to decide?
But for their five year anniversary, Carly posts a photo
of them together and she captions it My Atoms.
Love your atoms. It's chemistry.
Happy birthday to my best friend and partner in crime.
The past five years of our adventures together have been
some of the best memories of my life.
I love you at Joshua Kushner. And then there are rumors that
they have broken up because he was absent at her 25th birthday
party in LA. However, it's then reported that
they were seen together on a trip in upstate New York, so it
seems like all is good. Good, Good, Good.
Then it's 2018 again. They're in the headlines because
they attended the March for Our Lives protests rallying for gun
reform. So contrary to Jared and Ivanka
and the administration, they're getting headlines as, oh,
trouble in the family dynamics. Yeah, so again, but like,
they're making their, like, separation from them
politically. Like, pretty clear.
Carly gets an interview with Daughter magazine.
She asked why she keeps her relationship so private, and she
says it's not like I ever wanted to be so secretive about my
private life. Carolina Herrera always says a
woman who's an open book is boring.
There's no mystery anymore. I know in my life what really
matters to me. I'm not trying to hide that from
the world. I just really like having a more
private, private life. I've got nothing to hide,
though. Hmm.
So she's trying to be mysterious.
I guess so. I always want to be a little bit
more mysterious myself. Then in July.
People magazine is the first to report that the couple is
engaged, a source says he proposed a few weeks ago during
a romantic weekend together in upstate New York.
They're both overjoyed and happily celebrating.
Their hearts are full and they're excited to build their
future together, and she confirms the news on Instagram
by saying I love you more than I have words to express.
Josh, you're my best friend and my soul mate.
I can't wait for forever together.
Yes, a million times over and. What do the gailers say about
this? You know what, I'm not sure this
should have been like a big breaking point for them, but
like, I don't think that anyone would fake a relationship that
much that they get engaged like after 5-6 years together, that's
a lot. Maybe they think that, like,
they really fell in love, though I'm not sure.
But this is also when folks online once again, even though
they've been together for years, people just start realizing like
what Karlie Kloss is engaged to a Kushner, which is so annoying
because it's like, where have you been?
And so then they especially get suspicious of her because Ivanka
actually posts about it and she calls Carly her sister.
And so then that's not really good for Carly socially, I
think. Then people start being
suspicious of her. But Carly, it's kind of awkward.
She never acknowledges Ivanka online.
And I feel like Ivanka is always trying to post stuff or not so
much anymore. But like, she would post stuff
like supporting her and she just like wouldn't acknowledge it.
Oh my gosh. But you makes you wonder.
Like behind closed doors maybe they are pretty close.
Maybe. That's awkward, though.
So awkward and I feel like on Ivanka's part she's trying to be
like see like look I'm I'm still friends with like I still have
some A list celebrity friends and.
Yeah. But.
Yeah, so. Awkward and Carly addressed the
backlash with Vogue magazine saying at the end of the day,
I've had to make decisions based on my own moral compass.
Forget what the public says. Forget social media.
I've chosen to be with the man I love.
Despite the complications, it's frustrating, to be honest, that
the spotlight is always shifted away from my career toward my
relationship. I don't think that the same
happens in conversations with men.
Maybe. Maybe I don't know about that
necessarily. Like, I feel like it's not
really about that, like. It's that, Yeah, it's.
Like, just about his brother and.
Yeah, I mean, I usually totally empathize with those kind of
situations arguments. But I mean, we're just, we're
talking about this specific situation, and I feel like she's
trying to distract by saying it's like sexist, but like, no,
we're just talking about this. Yeah, exactly.
Like, I don't really know who else is in this exact situation.
Yeah, it's pretty unique. Partly, I don't know.
But she said Josh and I wonder, oh, sorry.
Oh, sorry, Yeah. I just, I don't know.
I don't know what it's like to be one of those people, those
billionaires, you know friends of heads of companies and I just
wonder how much it actually matters to them.
Again, I it's just ATV show. I don't know if it's real, but
on like succession, they kind of act like it doesn't matter to
them like it political divides basically that it's just it's
all about money, the bottom line.
And they'll they will hang out with people on like the other
side and they don't really care. It doesn't.
So I'm just curious. I don't think it does matter to
them that much because doesn't really affect them that much.
Like they're always going to be at the top regardless and they
have so much money like. That's true, yeah.
Issues really are not about them, but I think, I think for
them it more effects them if they care what other people
think about them. And I think Carly does.
Yeah, I don't know about Josh. I think he lays a little bit
more low, but I think it is important to Carly that people
know that she's not a Trump supporter and she said.
Josh and I share a lot of the same liberal values that guide
our lives and the things that we stand for.
We've grown. We've really grown together,
personally and professionally. Josh knows that.
I'm just a nerdy, curious human being.
I think that's why he loves me. We've had each other's back.
She's such a nerd. Yeah, such a nerd.
I'm always a little skeptical when people call themselves
that. So then in October, Carly and
Josh wed in a small Jewish ceremony in upstate New York
with only 80 guests in attendance.
And she later told Andy Cohen that she converted to Judaism
before marrying Josh. And she would say in an
interview, changing part of who you are for someone else can be
seen as weak. But you know what actually, If
you've been through what I've experienced, it requires you to
be anything but weak. It requires you to be stronger
and self loving and resilient. I really did not take this
lightly. It wasn't enough to just love
Josh and make this decision for him.
This is my life and I am an independent, strong woman.
It was after many years of studying and talking with my
family and friends and soul searching that I made the
decision to fully embrace Judaism in my life and start
planning for a future with the man I chose to marry.
Yeah. I mean, people do it, yeah.
I mean it is. She likes it then.
Yeah, sure. Yeah, I think.
It for me. It would always be a little
awkward with the family though, to be like you really had a
problem with me, but it seems like they eventually did come
around to her. I wonder what her family thinks.
I'm not sure. I mean, they're a lot more
average than his family in terms of wealth.
So then in December, Carly and Josh went to South Africa for
their honeymoon. And then in 2019, Carly.
She is the host for Project Runway at this point and she's
asked about married life while doing press for the show.
And she says I love being married.
Honestly, I just feel really happy.
It's so nice to just have a home base.
I can't explain. Nothing has really changed, but
in all the best ways it feels different.
I love it. And then, she added.
I'm sure everyone is juggling 10 things that you wouldn't even
realize for me. Like every woman, I'm just
figuring out how to continue to grow my career and balance my
personal and professional life. I feel really grateful that I
have a partner, my husband, who's an incredible support to
me and wants to help me accomplish my dreams no matter
what they are. I wish.
I do wish Josh was interviewed a little bit more so I could hear
him talk, but we don't really get that perspective
unfortunately. Who is this guy?
He is pretty good looking. He is pretty definitely a lot
better looking than his brother Let.
Me Look up a picture of him. Oh, he is cute.
I would totally have a crush on. Him, isn't he?
He he does look like a character, like he would be in
that realm. He's really cute.
I get it. I get it.
He's cute. He's got money.
He's. Smart.
Yeah. All right, this is all making
sense to me now. I mean, I I knew what he looked
like, kind of. But, like, it's been a really
long time. Like, I didn't really remember.
He's very cute. He could be on ACW show.
Yeah, totally. He could have been an actor.
He could have kind of looks like Adam Brody.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing actually.
Really. Yeah.
OK, he's really cute. He's like my new celebrity crush
and like, honestly? Like, it's kind of sexy.
Like he like sticks up to his parents, probably.
Or like obeys them for love Seems like he has.
Really cute guys. She likes him.
Come on. Totally.
Oh, this picture of him at the Eiffel Tower.
I know. Really cute.
Yeah, he has guys, because I know this is audio.
Brown hair, brown eyes, very Seth Cohen type of look.
Big Eyes Carly has a very Scandinavian blonde look, in
case you don't know what she looks like.
He kind of looks like the Tumblr creator.
Am I wrong? I don't know.
I don't remember what he looks like.
My own people were let. Me.
Look him up. Tumblr.
Wait. Just kidding.
I'm so wrong. Oh.
David Carp. I'm so wrong.
Never mind, I feel like I. Wonder if all those guys ever
hung out from each social media? I know.
I wonder. He's a little he's actually
nerdy looking. No.
Yeah, I feel like I remembered him differently.
Why do I feel like hang on, yeah.
The Twitter one, all right. I was going to say.
I was going to say, why do I feel like he looks like the guy
from Owl City? The Tumblr.
The David Carr? Yeah, David Carr.
No, he does look like him. See, I don't know if I would
want to be dating someone who's like the head of a company,
though. I don't know.
I guess I'd have to see what it's like.
I don't know what it's like, but if he's like, wicked stressed
out all the time, it might be kind of a bummer.
Yeah, talking about the. Time to watch a clip.
And not yet. Almost.
OK, OK. So then in February of 2019,
it's reported that the couple put their 6.9, $1,000,000 New
York City apartment on the market and are currently looking
for a new home. And then in May they attended
and walked the red carpet together for the Camp Met Gala.
And I don't know if you remember this, but this is the year when
Carly had the infamous post where she's like looking in a
handheld mirror and the caption says looking camp straight in
the eye. And then her outfit is so
underwhelming. Really.
Yeah, look up Karlie Kloss Camp dress.
OK. Oh yeah, I see it.
I mean, kind of like the sleeves, but it's not.
Everybody else is way more over the top.
Yeah, but it's just so funny that like that was her caption.
Like teasing what her outfit's going to be.
And. But it's basically a strapless
gold dress with like like poopy black sleeves.
Yeah. I feel like that moment was kind
of camp in a way. So then in June, the couple had
a second wedding in Wyoming and some famous guests included Katy
Perry or in Orlando Bloom and Mila Kunis is mentioned.
But I'm wondering, like, did her husband come with her?
Not sure. Why a second wedding?
I think, I think first one was so small and it was more
religious and so their second one seemed to be a lot more fun.
They apparently had paintball and horseback riding in a very
rowdy after party and it was like western themed.
So I think it was more of a party I.
See. And then we're in 2020, so the
first clip I have is from January, and this is kind of a
famous moment with Carly. It's when she's hosting Fashion
Runway and one of the contestants makes a snide remark
about her being married to Joshua Kushner.
Oh my. OK, let me watch.
Tyler I cannot see Carly wearing it anywhere.
Honestly. Loud even to dinner with the
Kushner's. No, no, no.
That's your husband. I was going to Paris.
That was your challenge. Here I know, I know.
Keep it, keep it to the. Challenge I could see you.
Wearing it at some point, you may not.
Know, but I know I know that this.
Is not what I asked for. The fabrics are poor choices.
I think they look cheap, the pockets are kind of ill placed
and if this is your aesthetic then not stop.
But this was about my aesthetic and the influence of my stylist.
You really missed the mark here on all accounts, Not even.
Dinner with the Kushner. 'S and then she.
Roasts his creation. Yeah, fabrics look cheap.
So awkward. Because, like, you can tell he
like, you know, like when you want to make a like, snide
comment and then you regret it. And he's like pretending like he
didn't mean anything by it. He's like, that's your husband,
right? Yeah, so awkward.
Crazy but. Yeah, I mean, like, again,
people are suspicious of her because of the Kushner thing and
everything, but Carly reacts to this.
She goes on Andy Cohen. And so that's the second clip at
a 51. OK.
What was your reaction to that? Well, listen, I was honored to
be. One of the first memes of the
decade, Yes, but. Honestly.
The real tragedy? Of this whole thing is that no
one is talking about how terrible that dress was, OK?
That's why we went home. Right.
OK. And no.
I would not wear that dinner to that dress to any dinner.
OK? To any dinner.
Dinner. You know I have to.
Say there is. I think one of the things that
came out of it is there is so much speculation about your home
life and your family. Can I ask you about it a little
bit? Ask me, Andrea.
I'm an open book, OK? For my Saint Louis fellow,
exactly, we're. Saint.
Louisans. Are you on the same page
politically with the family, Andy?
Yes, I'm sure. I'm not the only person in this
country who does not necessarily agree with their family on
politics. Uh huh.
That's a good answer. Yeah, I I.
Voted as a Democrat in 2016 and I plan to do the same in 2020.
Wow, very good that. Yeah.
You. You're you're very politically
active, which is why it made me. I mean, I know you're involved
in different issues. You know, woman's reproductive
health. And, you know, I'm very involved
with Planned Parenthood, as are you.
Next time we're both home in Saint Louis, we should, you
should come volunteer with me. I would love to.
I would absolutely love to. The, you know, the what I gather
from it, from things that I've heard, you felt this is quite a
love story, actually. You you fell in love in 2012,
long before the election. And you you really, you fell in
love with a private person and you've been through a lot in
your relationship. You you talked about it a little
bit. Last time you were here, you
converted to Judaism. I mean, what can you tell us
about all that you've been through?
I met my man in 2012. Yeah, I was 19 years old.
Wow. It was 2012.
It was a different world. Yeah.
And my my man and I have been through a lot together.
And you know, I'm so proud that he's my partner.
It's not been easy, but it's worth it, you know?
And and I would, I would make that same decision a million
times. Again, Very cool.
I love it. And thank.
You for? Humoring me.
And yeah, that's. A clip, that's.
Cute how? She says my man.
Yeah, that makes me uncomfortable.
I know it. Was like an intense time.
But I feel like they should not be asking her that.
I don't know. I don't think she should feel
like she has to say who she voted for.
It's just uncomfortable to me. Well, I feel like killing her.
I feel like if she gets a lot of hate for it, it's like she might
as well. She probably wants to specify, I
think, I guess so, I guess. I don't know.
And she probably. Talks with Andy beforehand.
Yeah, it felt like they were making her.
Say I don't know. I that was I thought that was
weird like making her say what are your opinions like she
didn't have to say that I guess it was her choice.
But I mean, I think it was a good like I do think it.
Was a really good answer. Her saying like, I'm not the
only person who disagrees with your family and that's really
relatable for people and it is kind of unfair that Carly's
getting all this hate for it. It is just because of the guy,
like and it's also several degrees away like it's not even
like it's her brother, sister. It's like her in law.
Yeah, I know which it's. Her in laws.
Aren't her in? Law isn't even Donald Trump.
Yeah, no, it's it's not that. It's not that connected.
Yeah, but. I think she probably wanted to
specify. Yeah, clearly with all of.
This said also. Then she also gets harassment
and stuff about, like the allegations about her being in a
former relationship with Taylor Swift.
Like, yeah, it's just so weird. And I wonder what his family
thinks of that, if they're even, like, aware of that, too.
Wow. I'm surprised she's.
Never just gotten on a live stream and like lost her shit
and yelled at people and said shut the fuck up.
Yeah, I mean, I do think it's really.
I I do think though that like, she does have real like issues
with Ivanka and Jared because eventually, like it gets a
little bit more contentious after the January 6th
insurrection, Carly tweeted. Accepting the results of a
legitimate democratic election is patriotic.
Refusing to do so and inciting violence is anti American.
And then someone responded and wrote tell your sister-in-law
and brother-in-law, which like obviously she's already doing
that if she's posting something publicly, like she knows Ivanka
is going to see it. To which Carly responded.
I've tried. Period.
So I'm sure behind closed doors that has was super awkward and
tough for her. But back to a few months earlier
Carly actually became one of the most high profile investors to
purchase a share in West Magazine.
So she's getting more and more like infiltrated in the investor
scene. Then in March, it's reported
that they went house hunting for a home in upstate New York.
In either what, Woodstock or Bedford.
I'm not sure if they ever actually settled on somewhere
later on. I love Woodstock.
Yeah, they seem. To love.
Upstate New York, but later on they too purchased a house in
Miami for $23.5 million. They purchased a mansion and
then they also purchased a $42.5 million penthouse apartment in
Manhattan, which is 7200 square feet and includes 5 bedrooms and
7 1/2 bathrooms and a major outdoor terrace that is around
5100 square feet. So they're living in.
Luxury. These two.
This is insane. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. And then also like.
What the heck? Back to the.
Politics of it all, Carly. Actually actively campaigned for
the Biden Harrison administration.
I imagine that was probably a little awkward too, but I almost
feel like I almost get the sense maybe I shouldn't say this.
Like, Ivanka kind of didn't even want her dad to win the
presidency because it was like, just too much drama.
Maybe. But yeah, I mean it's.
Pretty strong of Carly. To do that.
To stand up for her beliefs regardless.
But I mean it's. Totally her right to everybody
can. Yeah, it's good.
And then in March, Carly. And Josh welcomed their first
child together, a baby boy named Levi.
And then, in 2022, in May, Josh Joshua Kushner officially became
a billionaire at age 36. Oh my goodness, I know then in
20. 23 Carly and. Josh attended to Met Gala
together where Carly debuted a very visible baby bump revealing
that they are pregnant with their second child and then they
welcome their second son, Elijah Jude.
And then most recently Carly purchased ID magazine from Vice
Media Group and actually became the CEO of magazine.
So she didn't really climb the ranks.
And yeah, they do seem. Like they're both.
Super driven. What is their life like?
Oh my gosh. And then actually this is not.
Important, But in December, I liked a tweet about Taylor Swift
being named Person of the Year, which makes me wonder if Carly
and Taylor maybe patched things up.
Wow. But that is Carly and Josh I.
Feel like I still don't really know them, but it is interesting
to get just a little glimpse into the lives of the Super rich
and curious. And you know, even they have
some conflict similar to the average American family and they
do. I can relate for sure, yeah.
I cannot help but feel. A little bit bad for Carly that
she is always like bearing the brunt of yeah, answer to or
answer for her in laws when like she's made it very clear that
she doesn't agree with them, which I'm sure is very awkward
for her. Yeah, I think so.
I know I. Don't I?
That's why I'm saying like, I
feel like I would be really annoyed if I was her.
Yeah, I can't even imagine. And.
Yeah, and then the whole Gaylor thing, too.
Like people, people. We don't.
I mean, I don't know what the truth is.
We don't know her. We don't know her life.
But just all these people talking about her and like,
putting words in her mouth. It must be just so frustrating.
I mean, I guess there. Is an argument like, I have
definitely seen people wonder, like can anyone who's a
billionaire be the good person? But I maybe.
I mean, I just now a billionaire.
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I don't.
I think there are people that donate a lot of their money to
charity and try to use it for good.
So I don't think that it's impossible.
Yeah, that is interesting. Definitely.
Different from our other episodes.
So thanks, Mel. Yeah, next.
Episode. Wait, wait, wait.
Yeah, What are the odds they stay together?
You know what? I actually think it's probably
50. 50 As much as I hope that, you know, they've made it
through, I feel like they got together when she was so young
and they're just, that is really young.
There's like there's a little bit too much money in there and
I don't know. I know.
You know, but then again, they. Do his.
Family. And he seems to be pretty
religious traditional, so maybe he would be less likely.
To. Get divorced.
But do you think he's really? I mean, there's no way to know
but like. How religious?
I don't know. He be if he was actively dating
someone who wasn't the same religious as him, like, and I
almost have felt like the younger generation probably
didn't really care that much. I don't know.
I'm not the one that researched him.
I don't. Know.
Yeah. But I yeah, I hope they.
I hope they stay together and they are really cute.
Yeah, it does seem like. Appearances are very important
to them. I hope they do stay together.
But you never know what these people, these rich people, it
does seem kind of 5050. But I I hope the best for them.
I'm, you know, putting that out into universe.
Cool. Well, yeah.
What are we doing next week? Do you want to tease it to our
audience? Yeah, next week.
It's kind. Of a sad episode and it's about
two Co stars who fell in love on the TV show from the 20 tens.
All right. All right.
I think I know. I think you do know.
I have a. Guest but but you'll be.
Teasing. It Thank you so much for
listening. Yes, thank you.
And we'll get back together next week.
All right. Bye.
Is your heart filled with pain? Shall I come back again?
Tell me. Dear.
How are you Lord?