Are You Lonesome Tonight? Are you sorry?
We drifted does your mail recording.
Oh this is really the actual episode.
Yeah. Oh hi everybody.
Hello, welcome to significant lovers It's Kellen Mel.
I know the story really abruptly.
I can like it. I'm Mel, I'm Kelly and Welcome
to our show. It's a true love podcast.
We're talking about couples relationships, history, and pop
culture. Yep, yep.
Yep. And we're cousins.
Mmm! That's always relevant mention.
Yep, our moms are sisters. Yes, we have the same
grandparents, it's true. So thank you guys for joining.
Joining us today. And thank you Mel, for joining
me. We're starting much later than
usual. It's 9 p.m.
Yeah, we had a few technical difficulties.
Well, quite a lot of technical with him because first, I forgot
some Hardware. Then the software wasn't
working. Yep.
It's a hardware software issue. Yes, both not would you want to
happen? But we're here.
We're still alive. Mmm, I think not see you.
We have these acoustic things around our microphones and you
can only see males eyes hike. We both stood up really sweet.
Yeah, I know we need to be taller, but who are we covering
today? Kelly today we are covering The
lovely, the incomparable. They always say that Ward.
They said that about someone really insignificant at the
Golden Globes. I hate to say it.
Wasn't it? Like incomparable?
Was it like some model actually had never heard him or whatever?
Yeah, but anyway, to me, they are incomparable, Zooey
Deschanel, and then give bird. So additional is an actress and
musician and been A bird is also a musician, lead singer and
guitarist of The Band Death Cab for Cutie and I am just so
excited to be talking about them today.
I can't believe I get to do this for my job.
Just kidding, it's not my job, maybe someday.
Yeah, maybe someday if you want to make it our jobs, if you have
personal interest in doing that, we have a patreon with bonus
episodes every other week. If of our episodes are on
patreon, so you're really missing out if you're not on
their hate to say it. But but if you can't afford it,
or you're trying to save money, that's also fine too.
Yeah, I understand I understand, I get it.
So Zooey Deschanel and Ben Gibbard, they to me are the
ultimate indeed. Dream couple.
And I first have to think our listener.
Hazel, she messaged us and suggested doing this.
Couple and she was like, I know Cal likes, Death Cab for Cutie,
and I think she knew that because we used to host another
bite of Twilight, mmm podcast about Twilight and Death Cab for
Cutie, is on the New Moon soundtrack.
And I think I said that I loved a cab.
So I'm guessing that's why she knows.
But it was crazy because I was really, I feel so weird.
I can't see you, is there a way we can like position it but I
can see. Okay, then Okay.
Yeah, I think that's better. Okay.
I Was craving doing this couple, I was really craving and that's
that's what makes a good episode.
I really wanted you but I wasn't sure if anybody would care with
want to listen. And then we got that message
from Hazel and I was like okay I'm doing it, I'm doing it.
Yeah so I'm really following my heart here.
I really love both Zooey Deschanel and Ben Gibbard, so
I'm excited. Yeah, I personally don't know
anything about their intimate lives.
Good and or what? They're like, is people at all,
you're about to find out and what three words would you use
to describe them? I only came up with two so far
as we have to come up with the third one on the end.
Yeah. Indy.
Oh God. Yeah, just is Artsy, okay?
Emotional, emotional three words, I would use to describe
so we in been make sure it's recording.
Yep, do you when now, when you say emotional, do you mean their
story is emotional or their emotional people?
I would say both. Oh interesting.
Hmm. So okay, guess I'm just gonna
get into it. Also want to thank Charlie my
boyfriend for meeting us halfway As in Brooklyn.
Thank you, Charlie. Bring us the cord that we
needed. Thank you, Charlie.
This one is for you. This is dedicated to you.
So. Okay, I wanted to First kick
this off. I wanted to read a little bit of
this article that came across. I feel like just summed up Zoey
and been so much like the reason why I like them why other people
like them? And I just thought this guy did
it perfectly so I'm going to read it if that's okay.
Yeah so it's called So additional and Ben Gibbard were
500 Days of Summer come to life. Hmm.
If a shared love of indie rock couldn't make a relationship
work. What could buy Luke winky?
Mmm I love that last name. Okay, Urban Outfitters froze
over in 2009 when Ben Gibbard and Zooey Deschanel announced
that they had eloped after a year of dating, they were
married. Yeah, I didn't there.
Yeah, I thought they just stayed in it.
They were married. Okay, the union was
nauseatingly. Cute ditional was fresh offer
star-making performance as the bangs e unattainable.
Thuy Foyle to Joseph Gordon-Levitt and 500 Days of
Summer a film about Joy Division, The Smiths and the
inept emotional terrorism, that affects men who frequent record
shops, to pick up women Ben Gibbard.
Of course, is the principal songwriter of Death Cab for
Cutie. A band that specializes in
writing songs, to appease, the exact type of guy that Gordon
Levitt's character embodied their Life relationship for like
a fanservice retcon. At the end of 500 Days of Summer
Deschanel. Firmly puts an end to her
relationship with Gordon-Levitt for.
He is too clingy to insecure and too, prone to spiraling moments
of emo, self defeatism for her to see a future with him in real
life though. The sad boy got the girl and
dudes with Unknown Pleasures shirts across the world.
Over rejoiced. I am a 29 year.
Old Millennial male who grew up reading Pitchfork stereogum,
tiny mixtapes, and every other indie rock blog, I could And so
you probably won't be surprised that I desperately wanted to
meet a girl like Zooey Deschanel for much of my life.
I had no awareness of the hard work and compromise that is
necessary to forge a healthy long lasting partnership.
Instead, I believed that love only blooms after meeting a,
someone who shared a mutually intersecting.
Venn diagram of taste, two people establish a shared
context of music movies, TV shows and books.
And then they spend happily ever after together.
Rehashing the discussions, they used to have in the The AV club
comment section Gibbard, an additional had it made their
light would never go out. This myth servants, how hard
could marriage be? If any, if every different, how
hard could marriage be? If every dinner table discussion
centered around Velvet Underground b-sides mmm.
So yes, I feel like I Also thought because I love 500 Days
of Summer. Yeah, it really, really, really
wrong to my world back then. I know I haven't seen it in a
while. I should re-watch it.
It's good. I love it.
I really like, I was there in one of these like that.
I think it's one of my favorite movies and I feel like it's
like, not cool to say that. No, I think it's love it.
I think it's like, well respected as a really good
movie, right, isn't it? Critically acclaimed, I think
so. Yeah.
But people turned on it, I think
being like Oh man in pixie dream girl.
Melissa please. And I kind from his perspective.
I know those feel like that, it's actually really smart.
Yeah. And oh, the best soundtrack, but
I feel like I did come away from that movie, not really learning
anything because I also was like, yeah, I want to meet a guy
who wears a sweater vest. Uh, yeah.
The record stores and listen to this myth.
Yeah, has vinyl and I, yeah, I pretty much still feel that way.
He's so in the movie, I feel like you're supposed to walk
away with like At they just were not compatible.
Yeah. Like as people even though they
had a lot in common yeah, they couldn't still.
He couldn't see that like they just weren't right for each
other. Yeah, yeah.
I mean I think she knew it first and he just had to accept that.
Yeah. It's a story about love with.
Yeah. It's like about rejection.
Yeah. Yeah, that movie really affected
me deeply as a teenager. So I also felt so perplexed in
sad to hear that the marriage between Zoe and Ben didn't work
out, like, how could I be? It must not have been that long
of a marriage, right? Because that wasn't wasn't that
long ago, that movie. I mean, it was over 10 years
ago, probably, right? Yes, it was. 500 Days of Summer
was 2009. Okay, that was actually a while
ago feels like just yesterday but I guess like, yes, she's
lived a lot of life that's inside because I'm guessing she
was with the guy that she has a baby with for a while and I feel
like she's been with the Property Brother for a while, so
that's like a lot of multiple relationship, you know, ago.
It did all happen, very bad. Okay, kind of like 500 Days of
Summer. Yeah, that's true.
I mean one minute it seems like summer and Tom or going great
and then she's engaged. Yeah.
And you feel blindsided? Yeah.
So I think a lot of people that were into I don't know, indie
rock and stuff of that time. Period really liked this couple
and also we're just really sad that it didn't work out but I'm
going to get into it now. Now, all right.
Okay. So just a little backstory.
So additional she is an American actress singer and songwriter
she's known for films like elf Almost Famous 500 Days of
Summer. And of course the TV show new
girl Bridge to Terabithia. Yep.
Yeah. Some others Hitchhiker's Guide
to the Galaxy. Yes man.
Oh yeah. We watch that in your basement.
Once really did I fall asleep. Yeah, but I think I might have
to because I don't remember it that.
Well, I would like to re-watch it.
Is that Jim Carrey. Oh yes.
That feels like so long ago and she's in the folk, rock band,
She and Him with M Ward which formed in 2006 and she's also a
co-founder of the website. Hello giggles.
Oh, I feel like I knew that in forgot and then I was like what
what's it about because I've been on, hello Google's before
it's just one of those websites like I don't know refinery29 or
something. Like they just have our, she's
the owner of that co-founder? Yeah.
I think she about selling. Okay.
But yeah. She's really, really like she's
a lot of going on like yeah. She's really what do you call
that? Ambitious.
She is, she is how you. So she's a multi passionate
person. Um, yeah, so her name is Zoey
Claire dish. Now, she was born in Los
Angeles, on, January 17, 1980, so she's 42.
Today to her father, Caleb Deschanel, a cinematographer
your mother Mary Jo Deschanel. We're was her maiden name, and
actress, who was on Twin Peaks, and some other things, but she
wasn't like a huge actor. Yeah.
But her parents like we're in the business.
They were in the business and I listened to an interview with
her with Justin long as I. Yeah, Justin long, and he said
something like, oh, that's probably how you got started.
And she's like, yeah, yeah, I was kind of, but, and he's like,
did you use your mom's age? And she said, like, no, she
didn't have an agent, acted randomly.
But wow, it does seem like she. She got a role in a play kind of
from like, a friend of her mom. I don't know.
It's like I think it opened the door but not hugely it.
It's not the same way that someone.
Like it's not the same as for like Maya hawk or someone's
parents on a list celebrities. Yeah like they definitely there
were opportunities around really feel like she they weren't able
to just like put her in some yeah exactly she is named after
Zoe glass and j.d. salinger's book Franny and Zooey so that's
why there's like the 200, okay? And her family called her Zuzu
as a nickname. Oh that's really cute and So
hearing that she's named after a character in a JD Salinger book
made me think like okay, this is a literary culture darts eaten
family like the dad's a cinematographer.
Yeah okay that's that's what's going on here.
She has an older sister. Emily Deschanel who's also an
actress. Yeah, she's like in Bones Bones,
that's her main claim to fame their family.
Traveled a lot for her father's work which was apparently
difficult for Zoey leaving friends and Family and similar
foods and home behind feel like a lot of people we've talked
about had that. I know what's really interesting
is that the key to being famous. I know we have an unstable home
environment. Yeah.
And she was always interested in singing and Performing since she
was a kid and wanted to be an actress and she was really young
when she was older. She attended Crossroads School
for Arts and Sciences in Santa Monica, where her classmates
were Jake Gyllenhaal and Kate Hudson.
Wow, crazy. I must have been an expensive
school probably and she's saying in school and did musical
theater, she attended Northwestern University for nine
months but then dropped out to pursue acting.
It's literally they all drop out another tall job.
That's another another key to success.
I know she had some small acting roles in the late 90s and then
she got the role as Anita Miller.
The rebellious sister who loves him and Garfunkel in Cameron
Crowe's almost Famous in 2000 M and then she went on to be in a
lot of the projects that I already mentioned in 2001.
She formed a jazz Cabaret act with Samantha Sheldon called if
all the stars were pretty babies and they performed around La and
then in March 2007 she did two songs on the album night.
Timing by Coconut Records, which is Jason, Jason Schwartzman, who
she dated at the time. Oh, Okay.
Do you know Jason Schwartzman? Sounds really familiar.
Yeah, he's an actor. And then he's also he is.
It's one of those things where it's like a band but it's one
person. Yeah, he is.
Coconut Records. Do you know the song is?
Like I miss you. I'm going back home to the West.
Yeah, yeah, what's it? What are the actin?
So he's been in so many Wes Anderson movie, okay?
Like he's the main character and Rushmore.
If you saw that he's in re Antoinette, he plays Louise.
He's in like I need to see the Scott Pilgrim vs.
The World. He has a mole right here.
Mmm, I feel like I definitely know him.
So she did it was the same D. Jason Schwartzman.
Always part of the whole Coppola Family actually.
Oh, really? I typed in um, Jason Bateman.
No, no, yes, I've definitely seen him stuff.
So they dated from 2003 to 2005, I feel like they were Also yeah,
a lie in the really cool, really cute.
This was kind of making me in the background information.
Making me want to cover them but I know that would be like to
have scared. Yeah.
Bleep. But maybe someday because she
seemed really in love with it. Like, I think this was one of
her major loves of her life. Wow.
Maybe she'll get a biopic about all these relationships.
So her song on She & Him volume. One, which I actually have
listened to She and Him like throughout the years.
So on She & Him volume 1, she has a song called Sweet Darlin
which my friend Brittany. Put on a mix CD for me years
ago. Wow I wish I doing I always
thought sweet darling was a cover because it sounds so
sixties it. Apparently she wrote that was
sweet. She wrote that with sweet
darling. Her sweet, darling, doesn't
wordsman. I just feel like she loved him
and yeah. So she's been in the bins, She &
Him. And it was from seeing him,
that's how she met Ben Gibbard, because they had the same music
manager that make sense. Yes, yes.
Yes. And also before been, she
supposedly dated the actor. Matthew Davis from 2000 to 2001
Hunter, Bergen, a bass, guitarist from 2000 to 2003,
Maroon 5 bases, to Mickey Madden at that's kind of like alleged.
I don't know if that's true. Then Jason Schwartzman as I
mentioned and okay, I know Asians is because this is about
Jason, but she said about Jason one time.
She said, Opposites Attract but I don't know if they last my
boyfriend is a lot like me. We always agree on the same
stuff we don't like when a song comes on in the car and I go I
hate this song. He'll go.
I hate it too. That's cute but that didn't last
I know it's not anyway. I don't have been, who is Ben
Gibbard? So he's released 10 albums in
the Band, Death Cab for Cutie, he's lead, singer and guitarist
and The Lyricist. And he's also part of the Postal
Service, which you guys probably know the song Such Great
Heights, sting it, they will see us waving from such great.
Oh yeah. Yeah.
And he has two solo albums, so there's a lot of lyrics to look
at. That's 13 albums.
So Ben was born in Bremerton Washington.
We've been there, man. We went to the actual Town.
What do we do there there with the rental car?
Remember, oh yeah. Ben's from my God, yeah.
So he was born, August 11th. 1976 his father was in the Navy.
So they moved around a lot of cores like Zoe but then they
returned to Washington. And yeah I wrote G's is the key
to success. Moving on.
Yeah he has a sister named Megan.
I don't know anything about his mom but he does have a mom too.
Yeah and if family is Catholic he went to Olympic High School
in Bremerton. Does that just sounds so forks?
I know Olympic High. All graduated in 1994, which is
when I was born, you were in a band when I was born.
I was thinking that as soon as you said that and then he
started environmental chemistry at Western Washington University
in Bellingham, which is where the rest of the death cab
members were too. And that's like, we're done.
Time was founded. So, in 1996, he was in the bin.
Pinwheel. And he was very much a part of
the grunge scene in Washington and he made a demo cassette tape
under the name Death Cab for Cutie called.
You can play these songs with chords and if anyone's wondering
because might be like, what the heck is this name?
The name Death Cab for Cutie comes from a song, called Death
Cab for Cutie. That was in The Beatles movie
Magical Mystery Tour. What is a song Death Cab for
Cutie mean? I don't know.
I know that's like a whole other level.
Yeah I don't know what it means but it's a song in Magical
Mystery and he's since then said that he wished he named it
something more obvious. Oh interesting well I think has
it like people know it has name recognition so most fans just
call them Death Cab for short. Mmm so after that demo tape was
released it was well received and Expanded into a full band
because that was like just him at first.
But then it expanded to have the guitarist, Chris Walla, bassist
Nick, harmer, and drummer. Nathan good.
Hello. If you guys are listening, I
doubt it where they groomsmen, you know, I think spoiler.
I think they, I know that they were for his second marriage, so
interesting, but I don't know about his marriage is a Really
probably. Why wouldn't they be?
I don't know. So then the bank like the full
band's first album was called something about airplanes
released in 1998. Then they had the album we have
the facts and we're voting. Yes.
In 2000. Then album the photo album in
2001 and then transatlanticism came out which I think is there
like most highly acclaimed albums as like a raven on it
with like red? Yeah, yeah.
And then in 2005 came out plans, which has their most popular
song, I Will Follow You into the Dark and Soul Meets Body.
I feel like that's kind of their second most famous song and they
were like, really well received in the whole like indie rock
World. They weren't ever like that
mainstream. But yeah.
I feel like they're kind of considered like one of the
major. Yeah.
Like most, you know, most people know who they are.
Yeah. Before humans are we got
together. He was also also in the Postal
Service, I mentioned their album give up was really successful,
almost like more successful than any of the death cab albums and
like the song Such Great Heights.
It's huge, but sadly, it's not about her because it came out in
2003 so I'm sorry, sorry to let people down that way.
Then after plans came out was the album narrow stairs in 2008.
And that's kind of their saddest album.
Yeah, I should mention if anyone doesn't know, Death Cab for
Cutie, their music is known for being really, Melancholy, and
sad and weepy sometimes and narrow stairs.
I think was their saddest. And that was before, before they
met, they have been nominated for eight Grammys, but they've
never won but that's okay. Because I think the Grammys are
kind of. Hmm.
A sham. Anyway, I mean, it's just like
so hard to Pit. All these different artists
against each other? There's like I don't even know
how many artists there's are way too many musicians where is like
film. It's harder to get a film made.
Yeah, there's not just like a million fit.
Well, there are a lot but I know it's hard to recognize
everybody. Um, so I just think that all
songs before Zoey are quite Melancholy until they did date
their album that came out after they were together codes and
keys is kind of considered their first half.
He album, so it's cute but a lot of duck have fans dislike codes
and keys, but I actually love it, we'll get into later.
There's not much information out there about who been dated
before, but obviously, he has dated people because the lyrics
talk a lot about heartbreak, and yeah, romance and stuff some
people in the scene back in the day online, swear that he had a
thing with the singer Jenny Lewis.
Oh yeah, but he said they were just friends.
But I found an article from the Seattle Times that said he dated
a woman named Joan Hiller, she was in a music industry, she
doesn't like music pr and interestingly years later.
So this was the 2004 much, much, much later.
In 2015, Joan Hiller ended up marrying, another member of
Death Cab Co interesting who isn't in the band yet at this
time. Yeah, they've Dapper, he joined
the band later but in that case, if she was a Around.
Yeah. She's yeah, yeah.
Um, but I just gotta say that I and all the things that I've
read about Ben Gibbard, they've all been so nice.
Like everyone just has seemingly great things to say about him.
That he's really humble and sweet.
And one time years ago, I read somebody on reddit's, I mean,
obviously, you don't know who these people are, if you can
trust them. But someone said that he just
like, showed up to a running group in Seattle.
Wow. The he was just totally cool.
And I stand. Oh, that's so cute.
Yeah, and he's done like a lot for charity and for gay rights
and like, overall, he seems like a great guy.
Maybe he'll be one of the only guys to win and a custody battle
this week. Amy, maybe I do have one, like
kind of naughty thing about him later, but we'll get to that
later. Okay?
So so we and bent They met in 2008, was always easier how
great job, although I don't want the fashion to come back.
No, me neither. You're just, I love 2008.
I really don't want the Camis. No.
Not the Camis to come back or the low-rise jeans with the
jeans that you have to stick into your Uggs.
Yeah, I know. And I think I like the Camis.
It's so silly kids like your Pants would be so low that you
would need to pull your caii me down.
I know it got bigger. But yeah you got holes in the
Cami and I would this is like really didn't to our
conversation in the Ashton and Mila one.
But like I would just read where the same Gammy's like days long
time and then just add a new one.
What it really was. It's coming back though, I swear
it's coming back, I know in a ballet flats which smelled so
bad. Well, I know it was a gross,
there's a great time but it was a gross of time.
Yeah. Mess is the time that they met
they met from their shared Music Manager, as I mentioned.
And I was just wondering how I don't know how like was it at a
party? Did the manager set them up like
yeah, was it again? Gathering and they just started
talking. I was really getting carried
away daydreaming. And I'm like, did he ask for her
number? I know, yeah.
Like how what? What true or they just friends?
Look at that point. I don't think it was like a
friend thing because I think I read that he asked her on a date
and then they had a second date. Thank you, I guess they're
second. I don't know what their first
date was, but there's a second date was dressing up and going
to the Ohio, state fair. Oh, that is so cute.
How are they doing it? Hi.
Oh I know yeah. We how old are they?
They At this point budget cut glad you catch me.
Mmm. Okay so in 2010 okay they were
she was probably I think she was around 28 the guy and he was
around 32. Okay that makes sense.
Yeah good ages. Oh my God, I'm 28.
Yeah and I'm 32 I just can't hang them.
She's not she's a liar. Okay, it's kind of crazy that
this is like one of her earlier relationships and like 20 and 32
are obviously young, but it's like Gary.
This is literally like several relationships ago.
I'm telling you. Jason Schwartzman was really
mmm, dig love of her. Yeah, I think you can have many
loves of your life. That's like kind of beautiful
that like she's still finding love.
Like I know a couple years ago. It is beautiful.
So Then they were dating. That's all I can say about that.
It seems like pretty quickly. They were an item in India item.
You could say, they performed the Everly Brothers song, Dream
together at the Democratic National Convention in Denver,
and they kept looking at each other very cute and quirky.
I see second. Yeah, yeah, it's gonna stop
recording. This is a cute.
Look, it looks like a random Open Mic.
That could be in your town. I know, very cute around this
time. Ben was interviewed by Spin and
was asked about his Quitting alcohol because he did quit on
God. And the interviewer said, did
meeting Zoe factor in? And he said, by the time we
started dating, I was a good four or five months into
sobriety quitting had been such a positive change in my life.
Nothing was going to make me. Want to go back to that, but I
want to qualify that I'm not like walking around with a chip
in my pocket. I don't have a sponsor, I don't
go to AA, it's not like that. Okay, okay, we get it.
So I really don't let me know. They're pretty low profile and
she wasn't that famous at this point.
Yeah, so I don't have a ton of information, but in December
2008, they became engaged in November, December 2008.
Oh, so pretty soon after that matter, right?
Only a few months later. Yeah.
Wow. He's pretty soon after and March
2009, Death Cab started a tour for narrow stairs, which was
March through, May mid-june off and then had more shows in July.
So I was just thinking about that during this time.
Um, and I'm not totally sure when they were doing the filming
for it. I'm guessing some time during
2008 but July 17th. Nine.
That's when 500 Days of Summer was released.
Hmm. So I feel like after that should
become she became a much bigger celebrity.
Yeah totally. And then September 19 2009 they
got married in Washington, Pitchfork wrote about it, Death
Cab for Cutie frontman Ben Gibbard and actress slash seen
him singer, Zooey Deschanel otherwise known as the cutest
couple in all of indeed. Mm, were married near Seattle on
Saturday and apparently they were seen in the Capitol Hill
Neighborhood of Seattle, after their wedding, and the blog
Brooklyn vegan which was big back then.
Well, I think they're still active defense for convenient
claim that that's where they were honeymooning, but I really
doubt that I feel like they were just in Seattle.
Yeah. Why would they lie moon?
Like right around where he's fine.
I think they probably haven't left yet.
Yeah, if they did go on that's just the reporter making an
assumption honeymoon in see. Yeah, I know.
I feel like it's almost like Seattle traveler like Seattle
tourism like like sponsored but yeah, I don't think that's true.
But I couldn't find any pictures or anything from their wedding.
I mean, this was really before A lot of people are on social
media, you know, things were pretty low-key back then, and I
also feel like back then the tabloids were so focused on just
a few certain people. Yeah, I do think after 500 Days
of Summer, she did become more of a star and there are some
candid pictures of her and been walking around on the street and
holding hands. And I'll put them on her
Instagram guys. Um but okay so then spring 2010.
It was reported that death cab would be be recording their next
album in June, which we now know is codes and keys.
So we can infer the lot lyrics are based on time.
So, we, um, at this point been is now living with Zoe in LA,
but I believe the rest of the band was still living in
Washington. You can tell from past songs
like on the photo album that he doesn't like la.
Oh, so he's making that sacrifice for her.
There's literally A song on there that says, like why would
you want to live here? Oh gosh.
It smells like an Airport runway like he's really thrashing on
it. No offense to people live in
l.a. that must I was thinking like man if you're at Death Cab
fan and you live in LA that would suck.
I know I know that once we did not like it yeah he's definitely
sacrificing to be there with Zoe.
And during this same time, she was said to be writing music for
She & Him volume 3. And I feel like a lot Of people
don't know this and I didn't know it either that she actually
writes and composes all the music for She & Him.
Wow, I don't know how she has enough time to do all this.
I don't know. It's crazy.
She had a workaholic, I know, but I feel like I so sexist, but
I think I wrongly thought that like M Ward, which is like her
part. Yeah, that he kind of made
music. And she just saying, well, I
would have seen that too, because she's on like she was on
a hit show for like seven years, like she's in all.
Movies, like she's so busy. I would think that like, that's
kind of her side project the know, it's totally not like she
is super into it and writes all the songs they have done some
covers to but and then during this point in my research I
realized that their music is so different and it was machine him
before. Yeah.
Isn't it more like soft like this?
It's like they're both. Like, not like hard rock or
anything. No.
But like they're both called in the, they both go under that
category. Three.
But I feel like Death Cab For Cutie's known for being really
forlorn and sad and hers is really cheery.
Yeah, be. It's like it's so calling and
love music. Yeah.
We're like wow their music is so opposite.
Actually she was interviewed by American songwriter in Spring
2010. And they asked you recently got
married to Ben Gibbard of Death Cab for Cutie.
What's it like, living with another musician?
And she said, she said, it's good because we both sort of
understand that you need certain things to be creative.
He has an office, he writes in that separate which he drives
to. I usually right at home, usually
will be understanding of one another.
Hmm, it's not that interesting to picture their life.
I know, I'm so creepy but I actually like really is if this
couples I I turned imagine their life together a lot October 2010
before that album that I keep referring to codes and keys was
released been said to spin. I'm so proud of this album that
at this point I don't care if people don't like it.
And the article said they're actually Gibbard is also
straying from narrow stairs, more indicative of his new life,
in Los Angeles with his wife actress and she and him
songstress so Deschanel. And Ben said, there's a level of
self. Clothing and narrow stairs that.
I'm a bit embarrassed. I'm a bit embarrassed about now.
It was a really dark record. I don't want to make that record
again. I didn't write those songs.
I didn't want to write those songs again.
Everything, I write is reflective of my own life in the
lives of those people around me. It's like, I'm gonna cry.
They reflect the conversations. You have, in the Rumblings of
life around you. But when somebody gets married,
people assume that they're going to be going to get a certain
thing out of an album. Huh, and it's interesting.
He seemed so proud of codes and keys at this point and kind of
distancing from narrow stairs, which is the more depressing
one, but just zooming back to the present.
Now, he considers codes and he's like one of their worst album ho
interesting, never stairs. One of the best 100, maybe it's
because that relationship didn't work out too, so he Associates
it with that. Maybe it's sad, it's sad that,
you know, here, You seemed so happy and you can tell him.
The lyrics is really happy like for once and then he's like
that, but that I want to know what happened.
I know this is also the first time, Chris Walla came up with
some of the compositions for the entire song.
So just gonna show him out but Ben's still wrote all the lyrics
and also in 2010 been and Zoe things Star Spangled Banner, and
God bless America at a Giants first Phillies game.
I don't random and not like from that area at all.
He did Death cabs. I don't know whose deck a bird
just him but performed it and Mariners game.
He's a big man. Hmm, that makes more sense to
you graphically. Yes yes.
Yeah I don't know why they were added Giants.
Phillies game. Yeah, random.
So November 3rd, 2010 been played a solo acoustic Show in
Seattle to benefit homeless Youth Organization.
I called teen feed and near the end him and Zoe sang a duet
together. They saying I'll never find
another you. Oh, maybe I'll play second of
it. So yeah, the lyrics are like,
I'll never find another you and it makes me sad to watch it.
Mmm. You know, I'm really glad I have
no idea like how they're going to break up.
I do right. They seem so.
So cute and creative together. It's really sad.
Okay, March, 31st 2011, finally codes and keys is released with
many songs, seemingly inspired by Zoe and to NPR.
He said I feel that our music has always been really honest
about the people. We are now as a songwriter, I'm
not necessarily writing about myself or my life, but I would
be remiss. If I tried to continue writing
in a solely melancholic voice given the That I'm now a
married, man. No, I'm just saying.
So I don't look as on the lyrics if you guys are down.
Mmm, I guess it's up to me. So so K, the first song that is
clearly about Zoe to me, I'm going to play it.
So this is a song Monday morning.
It's actually I think my favorite death comes on.
Really, I love it. It's funny because they're known
for being really sad and that sound is really lifts me up and
I feel hopeful and excited, okay, but the lyrics are that
remind me of Zoe. It says she may be young but she
only likes old things and modern music ain't to her taste.
She loves a natural light captured in black and white.
She sees mirages of mountain ranges within the blink of her
eye. It changes back to the open.
Plain. Oh no, she can't explain.
And then later, he says the night is gonna fall in the
vultures will surround and you and when you look in the mirror,
what do you see is kind of Astound you but all these lines
and Gray's refine, they are the maps of our design of what begin
on a Monday morning. Hmm.
I don't know what happened on Monday morning.
I don't know if that's when they first met or something.
I don't know. But it's just, it's very cute.
It's very happy and I think it's definitely about her.
Then there's the song unobstructed views.
It's it just seems very in love. The lyrics are there's no.
I in the sky, just our love. No unobstructed view, just no
perfect truths, just our love, just our love.
And there's no verse no, Monument of words.
For our love. For the can't hold.
All I know about my love about my love storm clouds break
pools. Remain memories for Earth's
Embrace that hombre up above. They become new love, new love
mmm. Like they're in love.
Yes, let me see. Okay, this one, this one really
reminds me Zoe. This is called stay young.
Go dancing. Mmm.
I like that title by the Valley of the, in the belly of the
Beast and with her son and your heart could never bring it down.
It can never be It sounds like happy like her
music. Yeah, it does.
Kind of, um, Yeah. And like the lyrics and with her
song in your heart it can never bring you down, she's things.
And then later says, but when I heard her voice, it led me to
the end because when she sings I hear a symphony.
I'm renewed. Oh how?
I feel like through autumns advancing.
Will stay young. Go dancing.
It's so happy and it's so unusual for Death Cab like their
past lyrics, were things like Who's going to watch you die?
Yeah, yeah. I'll follow you through.
I will follow you into the dark. You know.
I mean there's still romantic but they were much dark more
morbid. Yeah.
Undertones.
Yeah. This is the new year and I don't
feel any different. Yeah cynical.
Yeah and it just warms my heart. Like That album, even though I
think a lot of Death Cab fans don't like I do, been if you're
listening I do. OK.
Back to the story. July 2011 been accompanied Zoe
to the Winnie, the Pooh Premiere in AA, huge.
Very cute because she did music for the soundtrack, I guess.
Ah, guess who was there? Oh, Booboo Stewart, who plays
have clear water and the toilet? Was he in the movie?
I don't know why he was there. He's everywhere around the same
time. She spoke to ivillage about
then. What would have never got to do
it. That's why I didn't make you,
guess she's with the ivillage about Ben's music and said, I'm
a pretty busy person so it I'm guessing his career it allows us
to get our work done and when we see each other again we have a
lot of stuff to talk about and then she said, probably the most
surprising thing about married life is that it's not really
that different. You still have to make a
commitment and think about that commitment every day.
It's not like you get married and then all the work is done
for you, you get married and you're still in a relationship
and you're still doing your best to make it the best relationship
you can. But it's not working a bad way.
It's just that you can't expect to make no effort.
You still have to make the effort and be kind to
understanding it. Just sort of solidifies your
commitment. Yeah, that makes sense.
Hmm. Yeah.
You can't go into marriage and be like, all right, it's over
now. I don't want to try anymore.
Yeah. So September 2011, this is one
Zoe's brand new show, new girl. Mmm premieres on Fox.
It's huge and all of a sudden there's tons of articles about
her yeah more than this there weren't That many and then all
of a sudden there were tons. She producer on that show as
well. I don't know.
I feel like that show was just like suddenly she became almost
like Mindy Kaling level in terms of name recognition like she
became and and that show to this day is like, still people are
still getting obsessed with it now.
Yeah, it's true. I know so many people here just
like we watch it over and over and over again.
I know there was a New York Magazine article that covered in
a vent for new girl, it was an early screening of it and Lala
and this is what it said. It said Elsewhere on the
premises additional is husband. Ben Gibbard, the lead singer of
the band, Death Cab for Cutie is tending to her mother actress
Mary Jo Deschanel a wisp of a woman with red hairy Potter
glasses. Then there's John Mayer.
He's in every episode. He has to be, he's a never
Within the last one. Yeah, I think you would then
there's John Mayer who's apparently friends.
With merriwether, the showrunner.
Like the creator of New Girl. Who Towers over everyone in a
cream-colored, ranchers hat. I will say though, Ben Gibbard
is 62. Also in God, I don't we Towers
over Ben Gibbard but um, who Towers over everyone in a
cream-colored? Ranchers hat.
I guess it's hat. Probably only.
Yeah. Um, photographers insist that
they Chanel take a photo Go with him and she said I felt weird
because I've never met him in my life.
She said afterward, but he seemed nice the lights dim and
the guests quiet including mayor who is the writer of this
article just got captivated by Tom.
Ain't nothing to do with this. So funny he becomes the subject
of conversation because to John Mayer just inserts himself into
Story. He didn't ask for it though.
I know you're just all obsessed with him.
We are it's like guys. That's what it's like not to be
chill. Like Fortune because it's like
you love to hate us. So you really do love him.
The lights dim, and the guests quiet including mayor, who has
just finished Doling out some wisdom, to the male bass on how
to handle the attention of female fans, while staying
faithful to the women, their life scientists.
It's okay to sign tits. Moment moments later, he's an
afterthought off back behind a row.
Rubber tree doing some serious texting, all eyes shift back to
Dish. Know, I sending an angry email
to someone like that was so not relevant.
Tell us that don't marry texting like crazy behind a tree.
Of course, if you like giving people advice at the event she
was asked, do you ever get mistaken for Katy Perry?
Yeah, that's a big thing. It's like her.
Katy Perry. What's your name?
Married to John Krasinski, Emily Blunt.
Hmm. And then obviously her sisters
always sister, there was also a girl on skins, who was thrown
into that group using them when you see all their faces
together. It's actually hard to tell you
the friends. That's probably why she has
bangs it's her bird. So he said I literally met her
twice. Six years ago.
It's a strange relationship to have with somebody.
I probably answer more questions about her than about my own
family. That's it.
So funny, um, and the New Girl creator Merriweather joked, that
Zoe was the pinup of Williamsburg and Merryweather
said, when we were interviewing guy writers, we'd be talking
about the show and it's very professional, then all of a
sudden their voices would get like really low.
And they'd be like, I love to do dishnow and I was like, all
right, it's better for both of us.
If you hold it back it is true. A lot of men love loves or
additional they do. Yeah.
Yeah, and honestly, I get it. I think that pisses some women
off or they get through it. All right.
Everyone like this girl. Yeah, her cupcakes and her
ukulele and stuff, but I also feel captivated by Zooey
Deschanel. Yeah, she does seem just like
so. I don't know, like Whimsical and
but like soft and light and like not like, but she seems smart to
yeah, yeah, I aspired to be like, oh, she's such a beautiful
woman. I asked Harley what he thought
of Zooey Deschanel. He said, he also really liked.
Mmm. Also said, she was a dream girl.
Yeah, and about this whole thing Ben said, I'd seen her movies,
and obviously, I thought she was very beautiful, and he said
about meeting. Her.
I was just awestruck that she was even talking to me every
once in a while. There's a guy that tries to be
Charming, goofy. I'm just kind of like, I'm going
to wait this out. Make sure it doesn't get an
appropriate. The male fans are kind of like
Indie rockers stylish and say it's very rare.
That a big muscley guy is like I love you Zooey Deschanel but who
knows maybe the show will change that Gibbard who joined Twitter
only after additional. This is still the New York
Magazine article give her two joined, Twitter only after
Deschanel. Persuaded him to.
They Tweet back Fourth. I heart Gibbs stack.
I don't know what that means. Says that Deschanel isn't using
her tweets or hello, giggles. It some clever way to Shield,
the real Zoe from view on the contrary.
He said, I really don't feel like there's a lot of mystery
about Zoe, you know what I mean? I don't mean that in the sense
that she's not a complex person. She is.
But I feel like she has given the public in her fans, a lot of
who she is. And I think that's part of her
appeal who she is in. Private is very similar to the
person. You see in public isn't okay?
So this is the author of the article said, as I'm leaving La,
I listen to day Chanel's mixtape.
The first time I met her in New York, she was going off to DJ an
event with Gibbard LP's, of course, and I mentioned that I
had a friend who had been feeling down and listening to
do. You Realize by The Flaming Lips
on her Pete, it's a depressing song and Zoe said, I've got it
happiness, songs are like my area and I guess she gave a mix
CD to this writer but the writer God about it, can't believe that
and then three months later decided to finally listen to it,
and all the songs. So this is a mix CD that Zooey
Deschanel made all the songs on, it were from between 1962 in
1979. And the writer said I probably
should be enough about this article said only five artists I
recognized then said I was immediately taken when we first
met that she had just this like Immense knowledge of really
obscure music. I hate to say it but it's the
kind of obsession that mostly dudes have those Concepts but
Emmett he said, I hate to say. Oh yeah.
Oh, but Road, second record, nerdy lonely, guys, know about
this stuff. She's turned me on to a lot of
music. I hadn't heard it just got to
say this, my me so much my friend.
Brittany nauta mentioning again, Brittany is like that like she
just knows so much old music and like Scary music and she has
made me mix CDs night of. It is several times and they're
always so cool and yeah she ain't him song was on there once
and been said also about her music taste.
She's really into late-era Beach Boys for all.
I knew the Beach Boys. Stop making records after Pet
Sounds. I'm a musician.
I should know better than that. She was like you've never heard
sunflower and she was like mad about it.
So it's just it's so like 500 Days of Summer?
Yeah. Yeah.
Like this writer here to his like yeah, yeah, so surprised
like, oh, you're into this music.
Yeah. You like this Miss?
Yeah, this myth. I know, and then falling in love
with her right away because of that, mmm.
Have this. The they put the whole track
listing and in here that she made it.
Yeah it's all old like the only artist I really know there's
like the turtles at a James Beach Boys.
But yeah. Yeah, she really knows a lot
about music. I do find that like I know he
said I hate to say if that's ya really condescending.
I know you like. So impressed with her because of
that. Like I know it's really it's
really cool but like yeah it's just because she's a woman who's
into. I know the same music that he's
into. I know it's definitely a thing
but I'm going to give him the Infidel because it was 2011.
I still feel like I don't know it's different time but when the
journalist asked her if her and been bonded over music the first
time they met she said I'm worried about this thing about
being in the generation of social networking.
More people are like I am my musical taste.
I'm I am not just a collective music or a collection of movies.
I think that's a thing. People romanticize.
Oh my God, she likes the same band.
So she's a dream. I've definitely learned that.
You can easily get stars in your eyes.
I'll meet directors and they'll be like I love Godard and they
love screwball comedies and they love all these things.
I love and then it's like wait a minute, that doesn't mean they
can make movies just because somebody like something that
doesn't mean anything really Let me sauce in so like just because
they had the same interest as I mean, they're going to be
compatible personality-wise. Yeah.
Like on a personal level, like, do they, is he a good listener
is like, ya are, I don't know. Do they like to go out?
Do they both like to stay in? Like, it's like, definitely more
than just. Yeah.
Music. They listen to.
That's true. I know.
I felt like, I've no, I don't want to get into it.
But surely, after this whole article, this is September 2011
In November 2011. It was announced that it was a
sad day in Indy because only two months after the new girl,
Premier o after the premiere, and only two weeks after two
years in marriage is reported that Ben and Zoe were divorcing.
Wow. It's kind of interesting.
It's a great as your career is like, reaching a new level.
I know, I know. So we officially filed for
divorce on December 27th, 2011, citing, I can never say is where
you're right concise. Aaron second, irreconcilable
wait. All right, so you're working.
Stop ears. I know his irr Isa realiable.
Irreconcilable yeah irreconcilable that's right,
irreconcilable differences. What the fuck does that even
mean? Um after only two years of
marriage Zoe was 31, been 35 A source told US Weekly.
It was an agreeable with know. A third party involved.
Hmm, just kind of weird to me like why even say that?
I know exactly kind of makes us human.
That's what you would say. If there wasn't that, I know a
lot of Publications. I saw several that said they
were actually sad about this and I think around the same time, I
think Kim Kardashian had gone through a divorce or something.
So, a lot of people were comparing it and being like, I
actually care about this one. Oh yeah, but I feel the same, to
be honest. Yeah, what happened though, what
happened? I couldn't find a Rate forward
explanation. Although of course we're going
to have song lyrics later to look at I think this could be
totally made up because this is on the Dumas subreddit and I
don't know I feel like people just Say stuff on there.
Yeah we don't know I don't know like the fact you can that they
do ya know especially this because this is just people
comment. Oh yeah.
But there was a post on there. That said what's the best
celebrity gossip that someone has told you and sworn is true.
I don't mean a blind that you read somewhere by blinding me.
Blind item Anonymous gossip. I don't mean to bind, you read
somewhere on the internet but someone something that someone
has told you that they heard from a friend of a friend of a
friend who went to school with his life.
Parties are stated their brothers lasted to go with class
with her ex wife and completely and says is true, the weirder or
murmur random the better and someone commented.
And again, this is probably totally bullshit but I'm just
going to tell you. Someone commented that Zoe
cheated on Ben. Joseph, Gordon-Levitt know.
I know, right? That sounds like fanfic.
I know, right? I don't, I also saw is on the
website, lipstick a lie, but I do think it's way too.
It's so convenient salt. There's after 500 eases.
Hey, maybe if it was like during their, like them shooting that
movie, I know, I know. I don't think so.
It could be that one of them want to kids and like one of
them didn't want kids, or since I would do they both have kids?
No, she actually did say on the record that she didn't want to
have kids, but she does have kids.
Okay, interesting. That's a huge thing.
Especially for people at that age, like one reason why they
break up and why it would be amicable, because it's just like
they don't want the same thing. Yeah, so yeah, I don't think
that's It's true but I wasn't that Justin go to George Joseph
gordon-levitt's later wife does have dark hair things.
No, but I don't, I really don't think so.
They were friends and I had been friends for years and they did
record a video together. What are you doing on New Year's
Eve thing like they saying and she played ukulele and he did
look really smitten the whole video.
Oh but she just acted pretty normal.
Yeah. I don't know.
Can't picture it to be honest with you, even though they know
good chemistry. I doubt it.
I feel like that's too easy to be like oh her co-star.
Yeah the love interest in 500 Days of Summer.
Yeah anyway in the divorce documents it was revealed that
Zoe had 1 million five hundred seventy eight dollar know 1
million. Five hundred seventy eight
thousand dollars in In the bank, an additional 1 million six
hundred forty five thousand dollars in stocks and bonds and
that she made an average of 95 thousand a month and spent
around twenty two thousand, five, hundred a month, the how?
And she donated 1500 each month to charity.
Oh, that's really. Nice, is nice.
Crazy though sorry Zoe invasion of privacy but that was
interesting. Um 95 thousand a month that is
so I can't imagine that. I know, can you?
Oh my gosh manifesting 95 that I can't even imagine how many PG
owns it was growing to make that much.
I don't even know. So not long after been, she
started dating this green writer.
Me Linden who wrote Dear, John, you've mentioned that before -
for two years. Wow.
She's a real relationship, girl. Yeah, she is.
She is October. 2012 been released a solo album called
former lives and so he's actually credited with some
vocals on the album and he said that he made the album, it was a
collection of songs that he'd written over many years that
just didn't make it onto the Death Cab album and he was
interviewed around the time. By promoting this solo album and
NPR talk to him. And said, how are you holding
up? He was Raz from MPR.
How are you holding up in? Been said, I'm doing good.
I'm doing good. I realized that answer sounds
incredibly dire maybe kind of serious but you know, I'm, you
know, life is wonderful and it's been really rewarding.
Hmm. So he was also interviewed by
consequence dotnet about former lives and they said you've said
the material and former lives A eight years, three relationships
to cities and drinking. You also stated, I think people
would be surprised when these songs were written there.
Who they written for that your way of telling naysayers, not
everything on this album is about your most recent
relationship. So it is now he saw me.
He said songs are very really what people think they're about.
I've never written a row. I've never given a roadmap for
who my songs are about when they were written in the past I'm
certainly not going to start doing it now.
I honestly don't see how going through an album and telling
everybody what. Every song is specifically about
is beneficial to The Listener. I think it actually takes away
from the experience because what makes a song resonate with
somebody is not the fact that you know a songs about
particular thing. It's about how it resonates
through life and how you contextualize it.
I honestly feel like I felt this way before.
It doesn't do listener any service to be given a roadmap
for any songs. I agree with that.
I think I mean, sometimes if it's a song that you don't
really like it first amplify it, when you're like, oh that's
pretty cool. That it's about that person.
Yeah. But if it's a song you really
love and then you find out, it's specifically about something
else. It can sometimes take it away
from your situation if it differs from.
Yeah went through. Whatever.
I agree and Ben. I feel bad because I'm going to
look at Derek's analyze how they're about Zoe, but I will
say that like even though I do kind of think, oh, I feel like
this is about. Zoe, I can still listen to them
and not think about the yeah. Yeah, they're very poetic and
Relatable stuff. This next part of interview
isn't about Zoe but I thought it kind of related to our podcast
little bit. They said I was reading the
lyrics of the album and I was drawn to how poetic they were
when I was reading the lyrics to bigger than love.
I wasn't sure if this was an autobiography autobiographical
song or not and then I read you based it on love letters between
F, Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald, which was rather interesting and
been said in that song that's an important detail and knowing and
understanding the song Don't know who could have tied?
It all together. Who could have figured out what
the song was about giving the geographical locations and a
very deep knowledge of F Scott, Fitzgerald's work.
Probably not many. I've been so fond of those
letters that they wrote back and forth for a long time.
There were so many Beautiful Stories within them.
And I wanted to try a little piece of them together to do a
song and they said, where they published a novel somewhere or
did you still won't stumble upon them in a store?
And he said, there's a book called dear Scott, dear Zelda,
which is all their career. Respondents throughout their
lives. It's a pretty great read.
It's really romantic and tragic. At the same time, I'm very fond
of it. And I've been trying to figure
out a way to pull from it for a while and ended up writing that
tune. So I just think that sounds like
he might like our pocket, maybe he's already a listening, cool.
Yeah, I mean if he's into Scott and Zelda has romance, I hope
hope Daniel understand why we're so fascinated with.
Romance. Yeah, exactly.
It's the same. I do want to do if Scott and
Zelda someday. That's, that's just a big one.
See that's, that's why it's like history, people don't think it's
as invasive to, like, talk about and they'd ever decouples from.
Yeah, exactly. That's true.
But yeah, you know, interestingly, the cover of
former lives that album the artwork is by his ex-girlfriend
Joan hill. Fleur oh wow.
From before we before, Zoe, hmm, he literally gave me that I
found all that out. So a couple songs on this solo
album, I feel like could be about Zoe.
There's a song Shepherds Bush lullaby, which talks about
London. I just think it's interesting
because it hasn't come out yet in this timeline but later, she
and Hymns album volume 3. There's also a song about London
Shared memories. I don't know in the song he
says. I hope you can hear me in dreams
be near me as you sleep in Ocean away.
I know that I love you. My every thought is of you oh
the clouds are beginning to break.
Just sad on the song. Oh whoa, he says it's been a
basement of a year who were just on sad but it's actually a
really upbeat song. So Wilson has a basement, can be
fun. It's true.
There's this song A Hard One to know, I don't know if it's
about. So it could be about somebody
else but or it could be about multiple people, I don't know.
But it says you call a truce and then you start a fight, you
change your signals like a traffic light because you're a
hard hard, one to know around your heart, you tied a fishing
line, and you cast it out there, just to see who bites because
you're a hard hard, one to know. I toss and turn by just can't
get to sleep when I start thinking about what you do to
me. You're like a flower garden
buried in snow. You're a hard one to know and I
just thought was interesting. The line about you're like a
flower garden buried in snow because later on she has a
lyric, she has a song where she calls herself a Snow Queen.
Oh interesting. I know what do you think that
mean? So what is it?
Your flower garden buried in snow.
Mmm like you're a beautiful person but But there's something
like blocking your beauty or whatever.
Yeah. I feel like it's just kind of
the same thing. He's saying like you're a hard
one to know. Like you put up a there's
something covering. Yeah.
Like as a front yeah it's like there's something There's
something keeping you from showing your beautiful garden.
I don't know your vulnerability but it seems like you said
before that people say that who Zooey Deschanel is publicly is
also who she is privately. He said that.
Yeah. I know.
Mmm. Unless she's not even showing
her real self. Yeah.
Maybe like wait what? Yeah, you've been doing your
persona on me too? Yeah.
No, I don't know. It could not be about her.
And then there's this song, Broken Yolk in the Western sky,
which kind of sounds like a song that you would see.
It kind of has like, a howdy upbeat Western sound to it.
Um, he's again, I don't know. This could be your, her could
not be but he wrote, I know it was a cowardly thing to do in
that an explanation is not an excuse.
I just need you to understand that my love is like, some kind
of greed of equal portions. Want and need and I cannot
divorce the two. I could not worry.
I know, right? That word I could not sleep at
all, with all the rumble, strips close, calls in the gravel and
Scattered trash. I faded into your past when you
think twice, you arrive at the same conclusion and it's bad
advice only if you use it and then you disappeared from View
and you became someone new, somebody new near the exits
overpass I faded into your past. East.
Which is sad. That is really sad.
I'm so sad. Like they got married, like they
were very good, we're going to be together forever.
That's why we got to tell the story so world doesn't forget
that she was married to Ben Gibbard then in May 2013.
She and Him released the album volume 3.
As we know that Eric's are all by Zoe.
Could they be about been a lot of songs.
Sound like they're about heartbreak just sounds like it's
a sadder Vibe than what she's been doing.
Kind of but they still have that upbeats.
Yeah, here's like I'll show here's one called I've got your
number son. Again, repeating myself.
I don't know if it's about him but there's lyrics.
Like, I don't want to spend night after night with you,
while you figure it out. You're getting restless, I'm
getting restless looking at you. I don't want to be your rock.
In hard times because I figured you out, you're not a man who
can understand anyone, but you would.
I sacrifice myself at the altar of someone else's love for me.
No, that doesn't comfort me. You think you can creep in the
shadows while you figure it out? I've listened to enough of your
stuff to feel a book or two and you can tell everyone that I've
got your number son. Hmm.
If it's about him, I don't know, maybe not seems like she's kind
of fed up with him and what? I sacrifice myself at the altar
of someone else's love. For me, it's like kind of like
her character and 500 Days of Summer.
Mmm, Like she. Yeah.
She was like annoyed by his affection.
Yeah. And it seems like she thinks she
would have to sacrifice something for his love.
Did they just want to do a still living in La?
I wonder if like, that was a big part of it.
It definitely was definitely was and I'm gonna get into that.
She also has the song, never wanted your love.
Mmm. She says, I'm not talking to you
anymore. I'm not talking to you and Any
more, um, making my bed. So I can lie there forever.
I don't know what I'm doing this for.
All I know is I'm tired of being clever, everybody's clever these
days, take a win, take a fall. I never wanted your love but I
needed it all. You're so close that I can't see
you. Keep trying to bother me and
then you do it again. Say you're right and all agree.
I don't want to set you free and then you do it again.
Do what again? Mmm, say you're right and I'll
agree. Yeah those are, those are the
lyrics. I'll look at that album but then
so now times past at this point, now I'm at 2015 but this is when
Death Cab For Cutie's eighth studio, album comes out,
kintsugi and is clear from the lyrics that are a lot are
inspired from his divorce. Does Zoe.
But also halfway through recording this album the band
member Chris Walla. Who was the guitarist?
He left the band. So That might, I don't know if
the influence of lyrics, but it possibly could have because I'm
sure there was hard feelings. So that's one that other guy
came in the Band. Dave Dapper and then he got with
Ben's ex okay, wow, what a small world.
So for the album coming out soon, he talked to Vice and for
some reason he was asked what the meaning of life is and Ben
said, all you have in life is the relationships.
You have other people, they romantic friendships bands their
friend He's, but I think throughout my entire life, there
have been people who have been constant throughout all the
weird fucking shit. I don't know how I'd get through
these trying moments in my life without my family or bandmates
or people who've been around this whole time.
I can count on one hand. The kind of people who were
those people for me when I was living in Los Angeles, I had to
leave and come back to realize I had no reason to leave in the
first place. The reasons for leaving were too
personal and complicated for here but I have I had to leave
and come back to think. I'm never leaving.
Seattle. This is where I belong.
Even while I wouldn't trade my time in LA for anything and as
painful as divorce is, I would do it again in all of those
cliche answers. But it was only Waking Up in
Southern California landscape every day where I was where I
realized where it's not my home. The only way it can realize
where your home is by leaving. I learned a lot in my time there
in l.a. like it's one of those weird Judy things where you go
through some really dark shitty times.
I rather on, it's one of those weird things.
We go through some really dark City Times.
There is at realization. Like I never want to do that
again, but I'm glad it happened. But only when you get some
distance from it, bringing back to some of the stuff on the
record only after you take it out and apart and reassemble.
It can you realize why it fell apart or didn't work?
And you were an active for participant.
In that sometimes reasons you weren't even aware of at the
time. Yeah.
It really sounds like the location is a huge deal breaker
in this. Yeah, and also just the context
that she filed for divorce right after the premiere of her new
hit show Which films in Allah. Yeah, I'm sure I don't know if
like it had already been renewed for like a second season or yeah
but it's like she's not going to you know, up and move know and I
feel like the permanence of that location probably hit him too.
I know if I had to guess, I feel like maybe she wanted to go to
all these parties and stuff and like and now she's like a big
celebrity. Yeah, she's from La.
She likes LA and he doesn't want to be part of that.
World. And he kind of says stuff like
that later on to. It doesn't seem like it was his
decision though. So I wonder if it did come to
him being like I don't want to do this or you know, maybe he
wanted to go to Washington or maybe you just want to stay home
and it seems like they were both not happy.
Yeah, sad. He talked to the National post
about it and just a lot about. I feel like I don't have to read
the whole thing but asking like it's been made that the lyrics
to This Album Are about Ben's ex wife.
You were quite shy about talking about the relationship.
When it was happening. How do you feel about writing
songs about it now? And he basically talks about how
like he didn't want to talk about Zoe in the songs, but
Jenny Lewis actually encouraged him to and said, fuck that.
You don't hold back. You don't change how you go
about your business. So yeah, I think I think clearly
in the lyrics they are about her but obviously doesn't like,
yeah. Obvious.
So yeah, there's some songs. I want to look at one of them.
This this is really sad, I think but it's a catchy song.
No room in frame. The lyrics are, I don't know
where to begin. There's too many things that I
can't remember. As I Disappeared like a trend in
the hum of the five in the early morning and now I'm taking my
time up through Coalinga, through the valley, this highway
lived in my mind. It takes me back to the place
that made me. Me.
So I think highway back to Washington was I in your way
when the camera is turned to face, you know, room and frame
for to. That's kind of like the chorus
was Ian you own way. Yeah.
And then later on, he says something about the thing.
They once knew as love, raising their voices to convince one
another was I in your way when the camera is turned to face,
you know, room in frame for to, how can I stay The sun, when the
rain flows, all through my veins.
It's true. And I guess it's not a failure.
We could help. And we'll both go on to be
lonely with someone else. Oh, that's quite sad.
I know optimization. It's they're actually articles
from this time saying, like it's, is it wrong that we want
Ben Gibbard to be depressed because he does right?
Beautiful sad lyrics. Alex.
And I think the fan base really preferred.
These like type of sadly. Yeah, he is so good at it.
This is not a no room in frame for to.
Yeah, definitely seems like her growing stardom.
Yeah, conflict. Mmm.
Then there's the song Black sun and he does say something like,
there's a desert failed in pavement.
I don't know if that's supposed to be LA or just like Los
Angeles, and, or California and he says, and there's a city of
In Hills, which I know. Seattle is a city of Seven Hills
and all our debris flows to the ocean to meet again.
I hope it will. That's really sad.
How could something he's? Things are really slow.
So fair be so cool when this black Sun revolved around you.
Oh, I lie to you. I know there's some really could
have been in the Saga. Then he says, there is a role of
a lifetime new girl. And there's a song yet to be
sung. And there's a dumpster in the
driveway of all the plans that came undone.
Oh, that's sad. They really sort of a lot of
their stuff. I know.
It kills me, we were just talking for this episode.
I like People who go through a breakup where they gonna have to
like move. That's, yeah, that's a whole
added level of like heartache there.
All the plans in the dumps their their life together in the
dumpster. I feel like that imagery would
be like, kind of traumatic. I know you think you're going to
spend the rest of your life with someone and, you know, getting a
U-Haul and like yeah, throwing things away.
It's like literally putting it in the trash.
That's so sad. Then there's a song Beverly
Drive, which I think is definitely about California to,
and he said things, oh, I need not be flattered that you've
never been here before. So there's no need to mention
that you've no first before And I thought about her, but it just
sounds like someone, like, oh, that, you've done it all, or
something. I don't know.
But let, if you let me be your Skyline, I'll let you be the
wave. That reduces me to Rubble, but
look, say from far away and then I don't know why.
I don't know why, I don't know why I return to the scenes of
these crimes, where the head grows, slowly Wind Through The
Ghosts of Beverly Drive. I don't know why, I don't know
why, I don't know what I expect to find where all the news is
second hand and everything. Just goes on as planned and then
I don't know if it's about so it could be just like about Society
or whatever but he says you want to teach but not be taught and I
want to sell but not be bought. So let us not be Lonesome, let
us not be. Lonesome lost in between our
needs and wants are needs and wants.
Are You Lonesome? Definitely there.
Definitely was someone. Then there's the song holding a
gun. He says, darling, though.
You may pretend pretend that you are selfless, you break with the
slightest. Bend it leaves, you lost and
helpless. So to whom, will you place the
call in the coldest night of winter?
Because numbers change in people, fall and friends they
always Splinter. Okay, this is the last one from
the album and this one made me the most sad.
It's actually kind of a Beat song but I don't know.
I was getting so into this. Research.
I was like so immersed in it and I've just been listening to the
death cat like non-stop the past couple weeks.
And there's one time I was listening to this song and I
think feeling teary-eyed when I listened to it earlier today,
and I didn't feel like quite as strong but I was really feeling
it. Um, so it's called El Dorado and
he sings seems you. Finally found finally found El
Dorado which you know is like the city of gold or something?
Yes I can. Uncle Place, seems he finally
found finally found Eldorado over in Culver City shining
bright naming lights and I tried to be kind for you all.
I'm trying to be kind for you. Oh, that's kind of like the main
course. It's kind of like a party that
you never wanted to attend, but when an invitation finally
arrives, you change your mind, and I tried to be kind for you.
Oh, I'm trying to be kind for you.
As you slip away behind the Gates behind the Gates, CNG
finally found. And finally found Eldorado.
I wonder if he had an inferiority complex maybe Rising
Fame to not necessarily like he wanted to be that famous to but
he worried that if the whole world loved her hmm that he
might lose her because she has so many options.
Not and I know and she did like a lot of people are in love with
her. It's the part.
I don't know why it made me really sad the our time I tried
to be kind for you. I'm trying to be kind for you.
I feel like that is such a realistic struggle.
Yeah, it's so hard. It's so hard to be happy for
someone that broke your heart. Yeah, it's really hard.
I don't think you necessarily have to be really.
I don't think so, if it's if it's like really that hard
because like I feel like sometimes there's like at least
temporarily. Hey, like a purpose like being
angry with somebody. Yeah.
And I feel like it helps you move on kind of I feel like in a
lot of philosophical or spiritual things I've read and
listen to the always talk about like, a pure love, being like,
You know, not spiteful or not jealous or like, you would be
happy for someone, you want someone to be happy, even if
you're not with them. And, like the purest love legs?
I don't mean, doesn't have to benefit you, but I find it so
hard. Like, if someone, someone has
broken my heart like to actually be happy for them.
Yeah. Well, I also feel like if you
really try to have this pure love for them, it almost makes
it harder because then you'd be like this is not fair.
Are that I'm not with the person who I love so selflessly.
Yeah, I guess that's a very selfish.
Yeah, it's hard. I don't know if like, I don't
know. Is it possible as human on
earth? Yeah, it's like, I don't know.
Like, I don't think it goes against like a natural like
possessive. Yeah, Instinct that we have and
like, I feel like, that's what he's saying, like, he's trying
to be kind, but he for her, but he can't.
I think it's okay to accept that you're not happy for something.
Thanks Mel. I don't know.
I know. I mean it is.
Yeah, because it's being true to yourself.
I feel like trying to be happy for them is like that's like
giving it to them. It would feel very free though,
to, to not feel resentment anymore.
Yeah, exactly. But I don't think it's something
someone can accomplish right away.
Hmm. But if it's been years actually
at this point has been yours for you to, I don't know.
There's also this song aunjanue which I feel like could be about
her. It's very much about someone
that like has Youth and Beauty. There's a line that's like the
currency of being 23. I mean, she was older than 23
but like just how it won't last forever to.
Maybe it's not about her. It could be about like an old
Hollywood Starlet or something. I don't know.
But yours Later, he reflected on this album, talking about codes
and keys. And he said something about how
he wasn't playing guitar and it was physically altering his
playing and Ben said, yeah, I was physically altered.
It wasn't writing. Almost any songs and guitar
because I wasn't enjoying playing guitar.
I was writing a lot on piano. I was writing a lot on the
computer and also I had these two cataclysmic shifts in my
life of quitting drinking and falling in love.
Moving to Los Angeles and Marrying an actress.
Was an interesting chapter in my life that I'm glad I experience.
But for me, I realize that because of the company, I was
keeping in Los Angeles as becoming very closed.
Off personally, found myself not wanting to share as much of
myself that had historically shirt on records, or at least
the perception of which I'd shared on records because of who
I was and the fear of people connecting the dots in a way
that would expose myself and then my wife to level of
scrutiny that I felt. Come on comfortable with those
about that was about Cozy Keys like happier.
Zoe. Album and she really liked never
said, much about her divorce has been.
Like, I feel like she hasn't opened up as much in a way.
She she just said something about how she wasn't focusing on
dating. And she also did say back then
that she kids and stuff wasn't a priority for her, it was more
her career. Um, so yeah, I don't know.
I don't know if it's because he is like kind of a smaller star
that he was able to open up more.
Yeah, yeah yeah. This is kind of random doesn't
really pertain to Zoe but so I just I feel like Ben seems like
such a sweetie like so I don't know like romantic romantic.
Yeah, that's not articulate. This is a podcast.
He just seems sweet and I'm keep thinking of her delicate with us
some right? Yeah.
Thoughtful god-awful yeah. Yeah, he just seems a just seems
like a gentleman most the time, really?
Yeah. Gentle.
But I saw a couple videos of him that really intrigued me of him
getting pissed during performances, when the sound
wouldn't be good. Like, just literally the sound
at the performance menu, or his guitar.
Wouldn't be tuned, right? Which like is kind of the job of
the Roadies I guess. And there were literally a
couple times when he threw his guitar across the stage G.
And there's one time where the sound like wasn't working.
It sounded bad. I guess.
And he got so mad. He's like I'll do it.
I'll just fucking do it. And then he like left the stage
and that's not a good look. Yeah especially on stage and I'm
like you can't control your temper.
I know. Is that the naughty thing?
You're going to? Yeah, I was shocked.
Like he always mean in videos and things, he and his lyrics
and everything he just seems so sweet.
Everything I know it's bad but it kind of thrilled me like I
just kind of feel like Edward and yeah I like getting mad
because I just never see him like that so it was really
exciting but yeah I know it does look like he has kind of a
temper. Mmm, I can kind of understand
because like if there's thousands of people watching you
and you go to start the show and it doesn't sound good.
Yeah. Yeah.
But he oh my gosh.
She like threw the guitar has happened.
Several times? Yeah.
Is it in the immediate aftermath of his divorce?
Or is it years later? It's it's over a long period of
time. Okay.
So it's a yeah, it's yeah, I don't know.
What is wrong with their sound, though.
Hmm. What's wrong with their Road?
He's not good or something. I don't, I don't get her.
The sound guys. Just Don't get it together for
deathcap. I don't know why they would
always have sounded unless he's just really picky.
Yeah. Let her know something that's
like kind of normal and industry but he just throws a fit about.
I don't know. He did apologize for at least
one show I saw about. But yeah, and then there's
another time. People were fighting to, and he
like stormed off the stage, I don't know.
Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah, kind of of, I don't know
if not, he's the right word but a little shocking.
Um, yeah. So as I said, Zoe dated
screenwriter Jamie Linden after been like, pretty soon after
been for two years and then she dated Jacob pitch to Nick the
film producer and in 2015, announced her engagement to him
and they married in June 2015 and she gave birth of their
daughter, l sea otter, Oz, Q July 2015.
So And later so she's already like really pregnant when I
think of a here. Yeah and then they had a son
Charlie wolf but she's two kids. Two kids.
Yeah. But her Jacob separated in 2019
and she started dating of the Property Brother.
Jonathan Scott very shortly after that too.
Yeah, she moves on pretty quickly and does she does hmm.
Now she's been with the property.
Brother for like, that's like three years now.
Yeah, they met in 2019. Are they married?
No, they're not. Yeah, but been remarried to.
He married in 2016. The photographer, Rachel Demi,
and this dummy. It's dmy and they seem happy
together. She, she actually takes a lot of
pictures of Death. Cab also bands, like Fleet,
Foxes and st. Vincent, she's done some of
Ben's album artwork and Used to be a booking agent in a promoter
and a tour manager. So she's like in the music
business and I listened to an interview with him and he's
talking about how his girlfriend at the time.
But now wife like she's used to touring and stuff and I don't
know, it seems like a good match like she seems really excited to
be involved in Death Cab like she has a book about death cab
it's just like pictures of them and what's interesting also is
that she used to date the guitars.
Is Chris Walla? Oh, left the band.
Oh, yeah. It's one of these women.
I know they're just fans of the band.
Yeah. It's Monday anybody?
Yeah. In this band.
I can't believe it. Like this is two instances of
over double dip over Olga. Um, yeah, but I don't know.
I do think it's hard. I think for serious artists like
Benner, Zoe, I feel like one Person kind of needs to be like
FrontRunner. Yeah.
And the other part 1 has to be supportive.
Yeah, I mean I think we do this a lot, not just with them, like,
with really big actors and stuff and I do think you need to,
like, complement each other like, Rachel.
Jamie still is an artist but like, she's a photographer.
So yeah, you know. Doesn't really conflict.
Yeah, I mean, even with like artists are going on tour.
How do you balance that? If someone has a film shoot,
yeah, you know, TV show that they're doing, yeah, where she
goes on tour with him. Just logistically doesn't.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then since since those like
Zoe albums, they've death cabs had two albums.
Since then, they had the album thank you for today which some
lyrics could be about. Zoe but I know it has been a
while so I don't if it's a stretch but like there's one
song called Summer years. Oh, and he sings As you're
standing. Still in my mind, fading out
waving, goodbye. I wonder where you are tonight.
If the one you're with was a compromise, oh, which sounds a
little Scandal but like, it could be possible because it
seems like her and Jacob pet Janek.
I know this is really gossip about you.
Gossipy of me. But they, you know, got married
like a month before they had a kid.
Like yeah, I don't know if she had previously said that she
didn't really care about having kids.
I don't know. I'd yeah, maybe not.
And then he has a song in the album.
I dreamt, we spoke again which I love this song and he says, I
don't. We spoke again.
It had been so long. It had been so long.
My mind filled in the blanks. I dreamt, we spoke again.
It had been so long. Your voice was like a ghost in
my head. Very sad.
It could be about anybody. Yeah I like to imagine it's
about Zoe yeah I think that deathcap is still doing great.
They've been a band for like more than 20 years and I think
they're still doing awesome so if she and him has had new music
since then but they've just been doing like a lot of covers.
Nothing. Really new feeling anything.
Yeah and yes of Ben's married to Rachel dami, Zoey's dating a
property brother and has two kids Kids and that's life now
and that's Ben Gibbard and Zooey Deschanel.
Wow! Likelihood.
That they'll get back together. I think pretty slim.
Yeah, it's not like completely out of the question.
He's married. We're gonna say new girls over.
Yeah. I don't know what she's like
acting in recently. She's still doing a lot of film
projects, you don't think really, we look up her.
I'm DV, I didn't put it because I was like, you know what, it's
not part of their relationship, but She's been a bit quiet in
recent years. I feel like she had so much
success with new girl. Mmm, it's kind of hard to Do
something else? Yeah.
To that. She was in trolls.
Oh, trolls to. Yeah, she's in she's in
something. How dream and wild?
I don't know what that is. Oh, I'm coming Harold and the
Purple Crayon. Sounds like she's doing a lot of
kids stuff. Yeah, that kind of Suits her.
Yeah. It is she has such a like
playful energy. Yeah.
I mean in new girl I think because I know her most of her
new girls. Yeah I think of her as a
character and that where she's an elementary school teacher,
she's arts and crafts. Yeah.
And she has said that, she's not that different from Jess.
I mean, she said that their personalities aren't exactly the
same, but they do have a lot of shared interest, you like baking
and things like that. Yeah, I don't know.
It seems like they kind of were inspired by Zooey Deschanel with
that character. Yeah, that happens a lot.
Yeah. She's like, a delicate little
like flower delicate Little Flower, but feisty toe.
Yeah, she is, she is, I know, I feel like she isn't totally just
like this complacent. No person, you know, she has a
lot of like strengthen her femininity like I should does
that show kind of like changed suddenly we've talked about this
in the trailer park. That's what everyone was
obsessed with like the strong feet.
Like yay. And they'll character and they
were always like kind of masculine in nature.
Hmm. And then I feel like with new
girl Jesse's character, people started to realize that like you
can still be stereotypically feminine.
Yeah like a strong lead. Yeah, you know I like to think
so. That's basically it and I made a
playlist it's going to be on Spotify and Apple.
Music, with all these songs. If you guys want to listen to
it. Yeah, link it in the description
and what was inside. I don't know how old is he now.
He is applying his 40s. I think if she's 42 he's
probably 46. Have there been no known
interactions since then not that I know of.
Yeah, he's 46. All my favorite.
Musicians are guys in their 40s. Yeah, I swear to God.
Yeah, then he's, he has a different look now, he's usually
always had the long, yes, sort of emo hair, but recently, he's
been wearing. It kind of like, combed back so
different. I think he looks good.
He's looking good now. I think his recent years is
we've almost been better than ever.
He's a big Runner, I guess. Yeah, that's so cute that he
joined, just love that. Yeah.
And I don't think I do. I know your next episodes on.
No, I don't think so. I don't know.
Wait, he's okay. And like, I want to try to, I
was gonna see. If you're gonna ask me that.
If I didn't tell you, I know, I really like the episodes are
just moving, so I know they are, they are?
Yeah, I was, I was kind of overwhelmed because we had the
Jane Austen episode coming out. And I was really, really, really
heavily researching this episode.
But at the, Same time I was editing the Miele one and then
the Eminem. Yeah and yeah so many different
episodes of Whirlwind. Oh one of our listeners, I feel
bad. I don't remember who now but one
of our listeners suggested, remember how I was trying to
make what luck Wednesday happened.
Yeah, she suggested, what if we did Whirlwind Wednesday?
Love that because that's kind of a romantic term Whirlwind
Romance. I need to figure out who said
that I feel bad. I didn't write it down.
Yeah. Yeah you know it was a whirlwind
Wednesday Today is it Wednesday? It is Wednesday.
Yeah. So next episode guys and Mel Mel
doesn't know what it is. Next episode is about two
actors. When they were young, and they
were engaged in the 90s. I know I've done one that sounds
like that, but yeah, but it's not the same thing.
It's all. I should say.
She's getting one more head. One of them is what I like my
favorite, actors, Timothy. Showalter was a baby.
I would love to cover to me to show me, but I don't think he's
been in any interesting relationships.
I've said that before mmm-hmm. Oh, you know what?
One more hint. I don't want to keep this in the
episode. I'm going to cut it because it's
going to give it away. What he dated the daughter of
one of these people. Supposedly, he's in her.
Oh, I know who you're talking about, that's all I'll say.
But exactly who you're talking to, you know, the other person
to okay. Okay.
Mmm. Yeah.
Okay. I'm gonna cut that out.
But thank you guys so much for listening.
No, we've been doing actually. Why is it was it was too hard
with okay? Okay, okay.
It's kind of interesting to get the perspective of like, knowing
the hint beforehand. Yeah.
How it comes across to the actual audience.
Yeah. Usually we now so it's like, oh,
that's right. It's not.
Yeah, it sounded really similar to Brad Pitt and going and
that's true but I'm doing it. I didn't do it just as the first
time I got it. Peppa fucking weird.
Let me do that. Actually wait one more thing
before we sign off. I just I meant to in the
beginning, make a joke about how this is going to be really long
and I was gonna have to do it in many parts, but I didn't say it.
Um, but Mel and I were talking about possibly doing some 2pi
episodes in the future. Yeah.
Would you guys like that? Yeah.
What do you some of these episodes?
I I think deserve to be two parts.
Yeah. Really what like, let's say,
ever did Queen Elizabeth princess?
Yeah, Philip that is like, what? Like six years?
I know. I wish I did that for Charles
and Camilla. I think.
Originally I wanted it to just be tied up in a bow in one
episode. I don't think we'll do it to
off. I think that's my goal.
Yeah. It's a still have one episode
for it, but if it just feels like it can't be condensed.
I feel like to would be the max though.
I don't think we would do like you know, three or four.
I mean we do the Robson wanted to episode.
Yeah that's true. That's true.
Well okay. Thank you guys so much for was
Neil of you. Next week.