Are you lonesome tonight? Do you miss me tonight?
Are you sorry we drifted apart? Does your man?
Hi guys. Where?
Back Thank you for listening to significant lovers.
We are a true love podcast. I am Mel.
Yes, and I'm Kel. And we're two cousins.
We are True Love podcast, but today it's also like a true
crime podcast because we are covering the infamous Gypsy Rose
Blanchard and marriage and relationship with a guy named
Ryan Anderson who she met while she was in prison.
Wow. Yeah, I was gonna.
Say that maybe, maybe I haven't looked into it.
Maybe he's distant cousin. Yeah, this is our first true
crime adjacent episode, so I wonder if this will attract any
true crime people. Yeah, welcome, guys.
So I am hosting today's episode, telling Kelly all about their
relationship. I am getting over being sick, so
my voice is a little shaky at times.
It might sound like I'm crying, you know?
Maybe that's fitting given some of the storyline that we're
going to get into, but. Yeah, I'm not.
No worries. Yeah, but we don't need to
comment about how it sounds like Mel's crying.
Just kidding. I don't think anybody was going
to do that anyway. But Cal, have you been following
Gypsy Rose at all? Not no, not really.
I have to admit I don't follow true crime stories generally
because it creeps me out too much, but it is interesting.
I did look her up a while ago and read about it, but I don't
know anything about her relationship really, so I have a
lot to learn. I didn't know much about it
either. I knew about Gypsy Rose from
that Hulu series. I actually didn't watch it.
The one with Joey King. But oh, what's it called?
The ACT and it's a it's like a limited series.
Joey King. I feel like she looks a lot like
her. It's also starring, what's her
name? Patricia Gosh.
Arquette. Yeah, yeah.
It's only Patricia. Yeah, so that's how I first
learned about Gypsy Rose, but I didn't really know what.
I feel like. People now are suddenly so
obsessed with her now that she just recently got out of prison.
I didn't know that she was married or anything.
I didn't know how old she was. So this episode, I'll say
there's a lot of back story with her, not a lot of back story
with her husband. That's OK.
That happens sometimes. But before we get into the
episode, you know, on the podcast we've talked a lot about
how mental health can affect relationships and we recently
learned of an organization that is doing a lot of important work
to combat OCD in relationships. Yeah, it's called no CD.
And you know, OCD is more than what you see on TV and in the
movies. If you imagine having unwanted
thoughts about your relationship stuck in your head all day, no
matter how hard you try to make them go away, that's
relationship OCD, which I feel like is a less known about type
of OCD, but it comes with unrelenting intrusive images,
thoughts and urges about your partner, a loved one.
And breaking the OCD cycle takes effective treatment.
You can go to no CD, so that's NOCD dot com to get evidence
based treatment. And on no CD you can book a call
with a face to face licensed therapist.
And no CD is sponsored by most insurance companies.
So yeah, it's a really cool organization that I feel like
it's pretty relevant to our show and anybody that's struggling
with a breakup. If you know someone, a loved one
that is maybe having issues with relationship OCD, then you
should tell them about no CD. But the three words that I would
use to describe them, I didn't come up with this beforehand, so
I'm coming up with it on the spot.
But I would say rushed all right, awkward.
Oh, and supportive. Oh.
Ended with the positive one. I thought it was going to be a
-1, like jeez. No, I think they are supportive
of each other. But yeah, OK, our girl, Gypsy,
she's had quite a life. She was born back in 1991, July
22nd in Golden Meadow, LA. Her mom, Dee Dee Blanchard, was
24 years old and her dad Rod was 17.
And yeah, and Dee Dee. I think Dee Dee had lied about
her age when she met Rod and they she got married or she got
pregnant only three months into dating.
Wow. And so then Rod felt obligated
to marry her. But then he woke up on his 18th
birthday and realized that he was in love with the He thought
he was married to a woman that he wasn't in love with.
And he said, you know, I'm sorry, Dee Dee, I can't do this.
They got divorced. I think he still stayed a
presence in Gypsy's life a little bit.
He seems like a really nice guy, but he was so young.
And I think that Dee Dee, Gypsy's mom, alienated her from
her dad. I could see that I think little.
I know. I think she was very.
Heartbroken by it, six months later, Rod began dating a woman
named Christy, who would later become Gypsy's stepmother, and
they would go on to have two children.
So Gypsy has two half siblings who are like 10 years younger
than her, but Gypsy. She was born a perfectly healthy
child, but when she was a few months old, her mother told Rod
that she had Gypsy, had sleep apnea and was having seizures
and had problems with her saliva glands.
And as she got older, the list of supposedly ailments grew and
DD claimed that Gypsy had muscular dystrophy and had to
use a wheelchair. And she also claimed that Gypsy
had leukemia and would have to she would shave Gypsy's head in
order to give her the appearance, like she was
undergoing chemotherapy. But she didn't have any of these
conditions, and instead Gypsy was the victim of Munchausen
syndrome by proxy, which is when a caretaker.
Manipulates it, makes it somebody.
Yeah, convinces them that they have physical health issues that
they don't really have. A lot of times they're doing it
for sympathy or attention, or to control the other person.
Dee Dee would purposely give gypsy medication to make her
have allergic reactions in order to trigger reactions that mimic
actual health conditions. And that made her.
So messed up. So messed up.
It's real fucked up. Would you say that her mother
has Munchausen's? Is that how that works?
And then Gypsy Rose has it by proxy?
Or what does the mother have as her mental illness?
Because clearly she has one. Yeah, I think.
I think that's what it is. I think it's also called
fictitious disease syndrome or something.
I mean, her mother definitely had that.
And in thinking about this, where I'm like, how much was her
mother? On some level, her mom was aware
that Gypsy wasn't really sick. If the doctor caught on to it or
family members caught on to it, the mom would just go to a
different doctor and then later on.
So so Dee Dee and Gypsy lived with Dee Dee's parents, the
grandparents. But once they caught on to the
fact that Gypsy wasn't really sick, she moved away.
And the fam, they moved to Missouri.
Wow. So she must have known that
Gypsy was actually healthy. But how did she consciously know
that she was purposely doing this?
I'm not sure. Yeah, what the heck.
I can kind of understand someone's urge to pretend that
they're sick to get sympathy. But it is just beyond
understanding to, like, purposefully meddle with someone
and make it look like they're sick when they're not.
Yeah. I could see maybe overreacting.
And if your kid has like, the sniffles, you know, then for
attention, unconsciously jumping to conclusions like they have a
disease, but to like actually give her medication and shave
her head and stuff, like that's so deliberate, yeah.
And I think part of the reason also might have been for
attention from Gypsy's father, because he always praised Dee
Dee for being such a good mother.
Because Dee Dee came across like she was so doting, like people
in the community loved her. Because, you know, she seemed
like the sweet mother who would do anything for her child and
was taking her to all these doctors appointments and
homeschooling her. And she seemed like a St. to
people, but did you? She was so good at manipulating
doctors that Gypsy actually underwent several unnecessary
surgeries, including getting a feeding tube put in and the
removal of her saliva glands, which led her teeth to rot out
and she had to get all of her teeth removed.
Oh my God. Yeah, what the heck.
Really messed up. I could also see if a parent
yeah, their kid is sick and they're overprotective and they
go to the doctors and the doctors say, oh, there's nothing
wrong and they're like, no, that's not true.
There is like, I know there's something wrong because they
want to protect them. But in this case it was just on
a whole nother level. And also, but like I said,
Gypsies health issues garnered a lot of sympathy for the mother
daughter duo. On the surface, they seemed
really close and Gypsy had this very pure childlike spirit well
into her teens. She was very into Disney
princesses and fairy tales. She has this very soft spoken
voice like fairy tales do exist and just seems so innocent.
And they moved to Missouri after Hurricane Katrina.
And it's believed that the real reason they moved was, like I
said, because Dee Dee's family was becoming skeptical of
Gypsy's health issues. But also using Hurricane King
Katrina as an excuse allowed Dee Dee to explain away missing
medical records when she went to the doctors.
Oh my God. Obviously on that level she is
must be aware that she's doing this and being manipulative and
this move isolated Gypsy from her father even more.
Didi would speak very poorly about him too, so kind of
distance Gypsy from him. And he was a normal guy like and
it's unfortunate because it hindered her from having a
normal, you know, parental unit in her life at all.
Yeah. I know Didi would also lie to
Gypsy about her age when she was a teenager, to the point where
Gypsy didn't even know how old she was.
When Gypsy was 19 years old, she thought she was, I think, 15 or
16. She had no.
Idea that she. Was an adult.
Which is crazy like at some point you must know your real
age. So she just must have been so
manipulative that like, the years could pass.
Or it's like, wait. But.
Didn't. So was she?
Never. She was never in school.
No, she was homeschooled. Yeah, I guess that makes sense
because I feel like that'd be hard to not know if you're in.
School. But yeah, exactly.
That's true. Yeah.
So she had no friends growing up either.
And so Dee Dee, she would also use physical abuse to manipulate
Gypsy. She would hold her hand in
public and squeeze it if Gypsy said something wrong, and she
would strike her with clothes, clothing, hangers at home when
they got home if she said anything.
In 2009, an an anonymous tip was submitted to the authorities
that Gypsy was being abused and social workers even visited the
home. But Dee Dee was so good at
manipulating them that they just left.
I wonder who sent that? I know, I'm not sure.
Good on them, whoever it was. It seems like Didi's family,
like her mom and dad, said that they didn't even that.
I think they said they flushed her ashes down the toilet when
she died. So I they really.
Didn't. Oh my God, so.
I think they knew that she was her.
Parents. Said that, yeah.
What? I think so.
That's crazy. That's weird though.
Like, I mean, I just need to know more because how did she
even turn out this fucked up? I mean, that's a whole other
conversation. Like, can a kid just turn out so
fucked up without any influence from you?
You know what I mean? Like can you have a kid that is
just like evil and has nothing to do with the how you raise
them you? Know.
No. I think that they probably also
were not giving her the attention that she needed
growing up and that's why she sought it out in these ways
afterwards. Yeah, I mean, I I feel like,
yeah, there's got to be something weird with the
grandparents too, because that's a even despite everything that
happened, like to flush your own kids ashes, that's just that's
fucked up. But anyway.
Yeah, it's crazy. So Gypsy started to gain more
independence as she got older, and she also really started to
desire romance. You know, like I said, she was
really obsessed with Disney princesses, and she was obsessed
with the idea of a Prince coming and saving her.
However, Didi for Didi forbid Gypsy from talking to boys and
told her that she'd never be able to have love or a romantic
relationship in her life. Oh.
My gosh. Which only made Gypsy want it
more. So then when Gypsy was around
19, she met a boy at a sci-fi convention and her mother found
out and smashed the computer so that Gypsy wouldn't be able to
talk to him and she actually physically restrained.
Oh, sorry. No worries.
Poor Mel. Wait, do you remember this song?
Mel, try to run away with the Gypsy Woman.
Yes, I do. Caitlin, my sister, was playing
the CD in the car that she made wicked long time ago, and that
was on it. It's by the.
God. And relevant because Gypsy Rose,
first of all, OK, I don't. I don't want to.
I'm sorry if someone listening, if this is your name and Gypsy
Rose yourself. If you're listening, I'm sorry,
but I questioned the mother's decision to name her Gypsy.
Oh yeah, it's weird. I actually, Oh my God, she named
her after character. I think I read the reason why
she was named Gypsy, but I didn't write it down.
I think she was named after somebody.
But yeah, it is interesting because gyp, well, Gypsy is also
like an offensive term that you're not supposed to stay
anymore. But it does mean someone who is
deceptive, right? Kind of.
I guess so. I mean, I always think of it as
more like a traveller, like a bohemian person.
But yeah, that's true. Like that is 1 perception.
Yeah. So that is interesting because
the mom is deceptive. Exactly.
And in some way, Gypsy was deceptive with her mother.
Like Gypsy was catching on to the fact that she wasn't really
sick and was playing into this role, but it was a means of
survival because like I said, her mother would strike her if
she acted out. So she didn't know any
differently. And.
She obviously had no money or like, I'm guessing she never had
a job. So especially if she thought she
was like 14, like how would she get a job at a exactly store or
something? Yeah.
Exactly so. Like I said, after that sci-fi
convention, her mother smashed the computer so she wouldn't
talk to any boys and restrain Gypsy to the bed, and she denied
her food. And Dee Dee told Gypsy that she
had filed paperwork stating that she was mentally incompetent and
that if she ever went to the police, nobody would believe
her. Oh my gosh.
But Gypsy somehow was able to join a Christian dating site,
and she must have had a different computer.
And on that site she met a man named Nicholas God John, and she
confided in him about her mother's abuse and asked him to
kill her mother so that they could be together.
Had they met in person yet? I don't think so, I think.
OK. But they eventually did meet in
person. I didn't really research their
relationship too much, so, but Nicholas, he had a history of
mental health issues and he was also autistic and some believe
that. Gypsy.
Manipulated him into conducting the murder on her behalf.
He was really so in love with Gypsy and like he saw himself as
saving her. But what were you going to say
about that? I don't know, like, I just, I I
guess I feel bad if he's autistic that that adds a whole
other level to it. But I don't really.
Yeah, that makes it hard. I don't know how severe his
autism is. It's hard to get mad at people
when they have mental struggles or issues like this.
So I don't know. But I would say that it's hard
for me to like absolve someone from murder to say like, oh I
was manipulated like how? I don't know.
I I I can't even think of one reason that could.
You know what I mean? Like it's it's a decision that
you made. It's a huge step to do something
like that that. Yeah.
I don't know. I feel like I I just don't know
how someone could manipulate you that much that you think that
that's like nothing to do. And then later you can say like
I didn't mean to or you know. What I mean, yeah, no, I agree.
I mean, that was his defense on the stand was that, you know,
his defense team said that he was not in the, like mentally, I
don't know, independent enough to have done something like that
on his own. And that he was easily
influenced by Gypsy and that they made it seem like she was
really manipulative and it was her idea.
And, you know, he just went along with it because he loved
her so much. But, you know, she was asked
about this later and she said, you know, you know, because she
ended up getting 10 years in prison for second degree murder
and he got life in prison without the possibility of
parole. And so she was asked, and she
felt guilty that he's going to be locked out for the rest of
his life when it was her idea. And she said, well, he is the
one that did it, You know, he he made that decision.
But. Yeah.
He wouldn't have done it if she didn't tell him to do it.
So that is the complicated part of that I'm.
Guessing they didn't know each other that well, right?
Or did they? They did have a sexual
relationship and they did say that they were in love and that
they were doing this so that they could be together.
How did she sneak around her mom and do that?
I don't know. That's a real good question.
I like I said, I didn't research the actual back story too much.
But in June 2015 is when the murder happened.
And this was a very highly planned murder.
Like, it wasn't just impulsive, They really did plan it.
Together, he killed Dee Dee by stabbing her to death 17 times.
While Gypsy was in the next room.
And then immediately afterwards they posted to Facebook the
bitch is dead and then they went in the next room and they had
sex and then they fled the scene.
So, like, there's a lot of fucked up shit going on.
And like, I feel a lot of sympathy for Gypsy with the way
her mother treated her, but. Like.
This is fucked. Up like it is.
Because I it just hurts me. Like, what if her mom got
treatment for whatever was wrong with her and like, she could
have changed maybe? I mean, what she did was
horrible, but murders never right, you know?
I know, but I mean, Gypsy, I don't know if she knew that
there was another way out. It's like we can't say like if
you were in her situation what we would do.
Like all she if she was so isolated and all she knew were
movies where. That's how people exactly.
Problems and I don't know, I I think that she had a very warped
sense of the world. So that's true.
Yeah, and actually, like when she went to prison, she gained
weight. Usually when people go to prison
they lose weight, which just showed, you know, the judge how
abused she was, that she was so malnourished when she was like,
she really looked like she was like a young child when she was
23 years old. That's insane.
Ryan's back story is a lot shorter.
I don't know anything about him. He's from Lake Charles, LA.
He works as a middle school social studies teacher and
before meeting Gypsy, he was helping to financially support
and raise his nephew with his mother, and Gypsy has described
him as being soft, goofy and having a calming presence and a
fire D. Oh my God.
That's all I know. That's all I know about the guy.
I'll also say he's like, maybe 300 lbs.
Oh really? Wow.
Just eyeballing it to just help you visualize him.
OK, so back in 2017, Ryan watched the HBO documentary film
Mommy Dead and Dearest and thought to himself, gosh, she's
cute and Gypsy story really struck stuck with him.
So then he watched the Hulu series, The ACT, which is based
on Her Life, which came out in 2019.
And more or less, it's just like a true crime case that he's very
interested in at this time in the prison confessions, he said.
I felt sad for her. I felt like I couldn't judge her
for that. I understood why she did it.
You know, Gypsy felt this was the only way out.
But before meeting Ryan in 2018, Gypsy was actually engaged to
another man named Ken, who had written to her in prison.
What? And they became pen pals and
would talk on the phone regularly.
And then he proposed in October 2018, and Gypsy revealed in the
Lifetime documentary The Prison Confessions that he was her
first great love and that she gave him her that he gave her
her first passionate kiss. However, Ken was a very private
person, and after the Hulu series came out in 2019 about
Gypsy's life, he felt uncomfortable about the scrutiny
into his own life and didn't want the spotlight.
So they broke up and Gypsy was very, very heartbroken.
What about her other boyfriend? The one who killed their mom.
Yeah. Yeah, they didn't speak after
that. Wow.
He's in prison for life. Wow, I wonder how he feels.
I know I would be kind of pissed off.
Yeah, well, her gypsies, parole, she's not allowed to speak to
him. Oh, really?
Yeah. So wait, why is that?
I don't know. You probably don't.
Know I think that's often the case though, that when someone
commits a crime, once they get paroled, they're not allowed to
speak to either their victim or like the person they perpetuated
like committed the crime with. But yeah, and Gypsy did testify
as a witness in Nicholas's case to try to help him get off, but
it didn't work. That's a tough situation because
I feel like to help yourself to help him would be harming
yourself. I know, but I think at that
point she had already gotten her sentence, so she was already in
prison, so she was testifying, basically just saying it was her
idea. Anyway, apparently Gypsy and Ken
got back together in 2019 and planned to get married in 2020,
but they ended up breaking up again because Ken didn't want to
be in the spotlight. So then it's 2020 and it was the
height of lockdown and Tiger King was the show that everyone
was watching, and Ryan's friend wanted to write to Joe Exotic,
and Ryan said OK, I'll make a deal with you.
You write Tiger King and I'll write Gypsy Rose Blanchard, and
he's later said. I remember telling her what her
story meant to me, and on the second page I just let her have
it. I told her everything about me,
about the letter, she said. The thing that stuck out the
most about Ryan's letter is not only how genuine he came across,
but also how, like, how funny he is.
His sense of humor was great, and I just fibed with that
really well. And in the prison Confessions,
Gypsy also said that she thought the fact that Ryan was devoting
his life to raising his nephew was a good sign that he'd make a
great father someday. And apparently Gypsy had
received 250 letters from potential suitors while in
prison. But she.
Liked. That Ryan was from her home
state of Louisiana 2. 150. Yeah, and this got me thinking.
Like, what possesses people to write inmates?
Like, we know that this is a really popular phenomenon with
serial killers, like happened with Charles Banson, Ted Bundy,
the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez and John Wayne Gacy, and
all of them ended up having love while in prison.
It's crazy. It's like, I almost don't want
to say this on the podcast, 'cause I don't want to inspire
any lonely people. Like, if you commit a really bad
crime, millions of people, not millions, but like hundreds of
crazy people, are going to write to you.
Yeah, don't do it. But like it happens to people,
especially the bigger the more, more notorious their crime is.
Like, I'm sure people ran like the Boston bomber.
It's crazy. What do you think?
Well, OK, so I was looking into this and there's a woman named
Sheila Eisenberg and she wrote a book called Women Who Love Men
Who Kill. And it's about it's about women
who write to men in prison. And that's because that's just a
more common phenomenon. I think the reason partially is
because. More men kill.
Yeah, men kill. Yeah, exactly.
I mean women are only I look up looked up stats for this women
are only 5% of the prison population and men the offenders
of murdered 90% of the time. So it's just.
Like, I didn't know it was that dramatic.
Holy. Crap.
It's kind of. And I think a lot of the time
when women are murderers, it's self-defense or not murderers.
But wow, Yeah. And but also gender norms kind
of plays into that as well. One reason this might be is
because of stereotypes that women are, you know, caregivers
and nurturers and empathetics. So society might be more
accepting of them, extending compassion and forgiveness to
men who've committed crimes, even though I think it's crazy.
But this woman, this author, she interviewed women and
psychiatrists and lawyers and social workers and prison guards
to better understand this phenomenon and why it happens.
And she said these are women. Well, first of all, she said
that they all come from different backgrounds, like the
kind of people who might do this, but the one common thing
is that they're all damaged in some way, she said.
These are women who've been hurt.
And when you're in a relationship with a man in
prison, he's in prison. He's not going to hurt you.
He can't hurt you. So you're always in a state of
control because you're the one who's on the outside.
You're free. You go in and visit them.
You can decide whether to accept his collect phone calls.
So in a way, Oh my God, the sirens outsider paid actor.
So in a way, even though cons are very manipulative, it's
still up to the woman to decide how far she wants to go.
And she knows she can't be hurt, right?
But I think this applies to men as well.
I would imagine that the type of man who would write to a woman
in prison is probably someone who has been chronically hurt by
women in the past. Might be one of those nice guys,
finished last types of guys and he finds himself wanting the
power of being a saviour figure for a woman.
Yeah. Which is perfect because Gypsy
has fantasized about this knight in shining armour fantasy her
whole life and. Yeah.
So someone like Ryan writing to her, this is his opportunity to
be that for a girl when maybe his options are limited in real
life. And Gypsy's story is so
different from somebody like Charles Manson.
I mean, no one really sees Charles Manson as like, oh, poor
thing, you know, Like, you know, he's a really bad guy.
But like with Gypsy, there is room to sympathize with her and
think that she's been, it's yeah, she's been trapped her
whole life and she's trapped again in prison.
And it it's definitely more of like a saviour thing.
Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, no.
I mean, she still seems very innocent, even though she was.
Yeah. Responsible for a murder, she
said. In the prison confessions, my
mother always told me I would never find love for myself, I
would never find happiness with another person.
But that didn't stop me from trying.
So I wrote him back. And then Ryan was on his lunch
break at school and opened his inbox to an e-mail from Gypsy,
requesting him to e-mail her back.
And he was absolutely shocked because he did not expect that
she would write him. And then he went back into the
office at school and told his Co workers and asked everyone what
he should do. And per his friend's advice, he
replied and wrote a really lengthy e-mail basically about
his whole life. And from the documentary, it
seems like because Gypsy was a very public figure, simply
getting response from her made him feel incredibly special.
In the documentary, he keeps repeating, what made you choose
me like that? It seems like he is not someone
who got a lot of attention from women.
And so, like, I don't want to say, like, he doesn't really
care about Gypsy as the person she is, but I think Gypsy, the
celebrity in a way, was really so exciting for him.
Right. Understandable.
And then starting in May 2020, they would start writing letters
back and forth to each other. Wow.
But after a year and a a year and two months, Ryan finally
visited Gypsy in prison for the first time.
He lived in Louisiana, so it was a 14 hour drive.
But still, that's a really long time, a year and a half.
Yeah, yeah. But it is far.
Yeah. And I guess it was the pandemic
too. Yeah, might have been pools
about 10. Hours.
Yeah. No, Yeah.
During the pandemic it definitely was like, I mean I
don't know if this would get in the way of his love, but it
definitely was like a no no to travel far to see people so
also. Might not have been allowed, not
that I'm thinking of it. Maybe so they finally met.
Yes, after first meeting, Gypsy said.
I walked into the room and I thought, wow, he's a lot more
handsome than in the pictures. So we had four hours to sit and
talk together. We had this connection that
seems so seamless, so easy. This is something I never
thought that I would have after everything that has happened.
But it's interesting she says that because she did have that
with somebody else. That's true.
And he broke up with her and she was heartbroken and she said
that he was her first great love.
So I feel like she's kind of changing the film a little bit.
Maybe after that ended she had, like, given up, Yeah.
Maybe that's true. Be in love.
I feel like I've have. I have felt that way after all
my breakups. Like I'm never going to find
love again. That is so.
Four months after first meeting, Gypsy called Ryan and asked him
where he wanted the relationship to go, She said.
After meeting you, I can say I have romantic feelings for you.
I was a little smitten with you. And so then, on Ryan's third
visit to the prison, he snuck in an engagement ring.
Oh my God. Wearing it around his neck as a
necklace and after getting engaged, Gypsy called her
stepmom Christy to tell her the news.
And Christy went silent for a full 30 seconds.
And then she said don't get married.
And she encouraged Gypsy to live with Ryan 1st, to see where
things would go and to not rush into it.
But one of the stipulations of being on parole is that you
cannot live with someone who's not a family member.
So there was a logistical reason why Gypsy wanted to marry him.
But. I do.
Think they didn't really have to live together, I guess, while
she was on parole. Yeah, I mean, why not just?
Date. Yeah, because my opinion again,
this is their life. But my opinion is I feel like
dating someone while they're in prison doesn't really allow you
to accurately see what that relationship would be like in
the real world. Like you don't get to see the
person in an everyday setting. Like Gypsy has no yeah, she's
250 other people writing her letters.
But like, there's no other temptations.
You're not doing normal things. All of their core correspondence
and communication, it's monitored.
Your time with them is limited. You only have a handful of
visiting hours every few months. I feel like you wouldn't really
know each other's true self. I agree.
You've never been alone with him without guards around.
Like, what if he's violent or something?
You can have all the trusts in the world, but I understand why
her stepmom was up until the day before the wedding was like,
don't do it. I'm I'm curious if you had AI
feel like you wouldn't have a family member in this situation
or a friend. But if you did, would you be
honest with them and tell them don't do it?
I know it is exact same situation, exact same.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I would have the guts to hurt them
so much and say flat out like don't do it.
But I do think I would say, like, I think you should think
about it or, you know, why not wait, I definitely would want to
put that out there because I would be nervous for this person
that they're rushing into something.
And yeah, and also you. Yeah, I mean, I think I probably
would say something because also, Gypsy hasn't even been.
Not only has she not, like dated.
Yeah, life. Like she's never been a free
person her whole life. I think Gypsy's kind of obsessed
with the idea of having a romantic relationship and really
wants a happily ever after. But she was under confinement by
her mom her whole life. She never really got to be an
adult. And then she's in prison for
like 8 years. So yeah, then immediately be
married. Upon getting out of prison, she
never has the opportunity to just go on regular dates and
like, live her life. Yeah.
I asked you guys, technically they didn't meet in person
before getting engaged, but only a handful of times.
And like I said, never alone without security around.
So I said, do you think you're capable of falling in love with
someone that you've never met in person, but you know more, so
spend time with them. And on our Patreon, 51% of
people said yes and 49% of people said no.
So it's really 5050 basically. Yeah.
Oh my gosh. I was thinking about this
question this evening and I was just going to such the holes in
my mind just thinking like what even is in love going back to
Charles, whatever in love means? No.
But really like sometimes I struggle with that concept.
Like, is it just a feeling? You know?
Because sometimes, sometimes the most in love you feel is like
the beginning of relationships when you don't even know
somebody that well. So could you be in love with
someone without meeting them in person?
I know it is all internal. It's not like you just take a
temperature and a number comes up and it's like, oh, that's it.
You're officially in love. Like if you believe you are in
love, are you? Is that all it is?
I know. I don't know, man.
I feel like the older I get, the less I know.
And even during this podcast feel like the less I know.
I don't know. Yeah.
I mean, it's one of those things like how who do you, who are you
to say, like if someone says, like, I'm in love?
Exactly. Can you say no, you're not?
Like, I don't know anyway. Gypsy's dad seemed pretty chill
about it, though, He said. Wow, he said.
I wish they would wait a little bit, but I figure it's marriage.
It's a piece of paper. They can get a divorce after
they don't have any kids or any assets.
I just want her to be happy, I know.
That's a little too chill. I mean, I don't blame him for
saying that, though, 'cause it's like, we don't really know this
guy. And like she only met him like
three times and now they're engaged and like.
She's Why even, like, why even think like, oh, you could get
divorced? I know.
Exactly. I know.
So then we're in 2022 and three months before the wedding, in
prison. In the prison confessions, Ryan
says he plans to financially support Gypsy when she gets out
of prison and the way a good husband should.
He says. Part of me thinks that sometimes
Gypsy might need saving, but at the same time, I need saving
too. She saved me as much as I saved
her. She deserves the best,
especially with everything that's happened.
Like I said, I do think they both seem to have a slightly
unrealistic view of marriage being like a happily ever after
fairy tale. Like this is just such an
abnormal conversation offered to people who are getting engaged,
so heightened and dramatic they haven't really had the
opportunity to actually talk about the day-to-day stuff and
see each other. In that way, all of their
relationship is waiting for the future in some way.
But they haven't ever actually just lived in the present moment
together, right? You know.
That's so true, Mel, and I think that is a problem with long
distance relationships. And I feel like you could define
a prison relationship as a long distance relationship Sometimes
I don't. I think it depends on the
distance, but like that movie like crazy, remember?
Yeah. Their whole relationship was
just so much about someday, you know, that I feel like when
spoiler at the end, when they're finally together, it's kind of
like, oh, you know, we don't even really know each other.
Yeah, exactly. It's all just been like a dream.
I mean, even in the documentary they're like, they're like we
don't countdown every single day, but like once a week we
have a countdown of like how many days until she's out of
prison. And it's like the whole thing is
just longing. And so I feel like it's so easy
to put that life together up on a pedestal when you.
Haven't. Actually had a life together
yet? Like usually if you're getting
married, it's because it should be because you already like the
life that you're living together currently.
Yeah, and then I I think that when things are so high end and
like such a fantasy on a pedestal, the first few times
your partner disappoints you or is boring or whatever, you know,
this is mundane. I think that can be like
crushing exactly when really it shouldn't be, but like when when
the reality sets in, that will be like even harder.
To harder and also feel more dramatic because like, oh, I
made a commitment to this person.
Do I really want this? Like, the stakes are just a lot
higher for it to be perfect. So I'm worried about them.
I'm worried, guys. Before the wedding, Gypsy
actually revealed to Ryan that she had a phone conversation
with her ex fiance Ken three weeks prior, and that she also
had a dream that she left Ryan for him.
This. Very open of her.
Very open, but this led to a major fight in the prison
confessions, Ryan said. It hurts because it's one of
those things where she keeps telling me, well, I've put that
behind me. I think now that the wedding's
coming up, it's one of those things where I worry that she'll
leave me for him. Like, dude, I don't know.
This is my friend and he's getting married to someone who's
in prison. Yeah.
For murder. And he's like kind of worried
about some other man like, I don't know, I know.
What are we doing? Here.
Yeah. Wow.
On the one hand, that is nice of her to, I guess, OK, put a pin
in the word nice. I don't know if it is.
It's interesting that she's being so open, and you could say
that's admirable. But also at the same time, it's
like, would somebody with more experience think, like, maybe I
shouldn't tell him that? Like I had a dream about my ex,
You know, Is that really worth sharing?
I don't know. I so OK.
Later on Gypsy went on Nick Files podcast.
He's a former Bachelor and she he said, oh, Ryan went on there
with her and they both admitted in the episode that Gypsy was
purposely emotionally taxing and that she would purposely put
Ryan through all these tests to see if he would stay kind of in
a self sabotage way. Like she would purposely push on
Ryan's insecurities and say really awful things to him just
to test him to see if she could trust him.
But I don't think, see, that to me is someone who probably isn't
ready for marriage, to be honest.
I mean, like she hasn't lived a life outside of prison as an
adult. And Ryan said.
I used to say she'd push me off a Cliff and then she'd peek over
and say, are you still there? Oh my gosh.
And Nick Vile asks him on the podcast, was there ever a moment
where it's too much and you just couldn't do it?
And he says honestly, no, because he just knew.
He said they he knew that they had it.
And he says, I would say you pushed me off the Cliff, but
you've seen those people who put tents on a Cliff and they nail
it to the Cliff, like basically saying that he's like in it for
the long haul and he means it, which is nice.
But also it's like, again, like I said in the beginning, like,
is this a guy who like hasn't had luck in love before and
maybe is a little desperate? I hate to say it, but like, I
just, I don't think that sounds like a good dynamic.
Guys. Yeah, I'm.
Worried. So also about this thing with
her ex Gypsy told Ryan that the conversation with Ken, the
recent conversation, it gave her closure and that she wanted to
go through with the wedding. And she reassured Ryan by saying
I'll never be some blonde, fake ass, prissy ass bimbo that he's
interested in. We're not going to stay in touch
with each other anymore. Which I feel like to me that
wouldn't be that reassuring because it's not like it's not
like I'm over him. It's like I'll never be the girl
he wants. But if I was.
But if I, yeah, exactly. Then you would be.
Together. Yeah, that doesn't really
interesting, make it sound like it's even her decision.
But they went through with the wedding.
They got married on July 21st, 2022 in a small prison ceremony
with no guests. You know, Gypsy, she's wearing
her prison garb. It's not really fancy.
It's in prison like it's. Yeah.
Not ideal. And because of prison rules, the
wedding band had to be less than $100.
Ryan got her a rose gold band because of her name, Gypsy Rose,
and the two wrote their own vows to each other, and in the prison
confessions, they both read them.
So I'll read them to you guys, Ryan said.
Gypsy Rose, my gorgeous snuggles.
You were the the most woman that I've ever known.
The most woman that I've ever known.
Did I transcribe that right? To me, that sounds like he
hasn't known many women before. Weird.
Yeah. Or was it supposed to be the
most beautiful? I don't know.
I think it's. You are the most woman that I've
ever known. Huh.
OK. Even after all of our time
together, I still fall more and more in love with you with each
passing day. When you walked into the
visiting room the first time, I realized at that moment I was
meeting the love of my life. Every time I hear your voice, my
heart skips a beat. I will always be here for you.
No matter what life throws your way.
My love for you will never stop growing.
You are my best friend. My love, my life, my heart.
You are my everything. Marrying you today is the
happiest moment of my life and I know our future together and our
love for each other will be endless and everlasting.
I love you with all of my heart and soul.
Wow, very sweet. But I kind of hate when, and I
not everyone's a writer, but I hate when people don't put
specific things in there. I know we're using some cliches
there, you know, like, I mean, he mentioned that when you first
walked in in the visiting room. Yeah, cliches.
Yeah. The visiting room is like the
most specific thing. And it's like a prison thing,
you know? I know, yeah.
What's even the point of writing your own vows if you're just
going to be cliche? I know.
I like. I hate.
Yeah sorry, I funerals. I never want to hear that they
lit up a room like let's something new please.
Then Gypsy said, my no. You do light up a room, though.
Oh. So do you, Kel.
That's so sweet. You're too shy.
Oh, you do. You're sunshine.
Oh, anyway, Gypsy, she said. My darling love.
Today I stand before you, taking in every detail of all that you
are. Your smile, your eyes.
The way you look at me. The man I came to call my best
friend. I now call my husband.
With all the life has, with all that life has to offer.
I vow to be yours. I love you with all of my heart
and soul. Your wife, Gypsy Rose Anderson.
That was nice. Sweet, yeah.
Kept it short and simple. It wasn't that like specific,
but it was eloquent. It was eloquent, Yeah.
I like the. I take in every detail.
I really liked that. One, I like hearing the vows.
Can we get that again someday? I know I like it.
I know we don't usually get that insight.
I guess it's a 2 private. Would you Now I'm I'm going to a
lot of weddings this year, so this has been on my mind.
Would. You write your own vows like I
would write them, but would you recite them in front of
everybody at your wedding? Well, I have never really
thought about it much and I don't really.
I don't know why. I I guess I just never really.
I don't know. I I never thought about it.
I guess I always thought I would just have kind of a traditional
wedding and my boyfriend, who I don't know, I think might happen
someday, I don't know. I feel we're talking about this
stuff. He He for some reason has a lot
of opinions about it and he doesn't want to write his own
vows, so. Interesting.
Why is that he? Well, I'm not saying I agree
with him. Again, I don't really have an
opinion on it. I think it's cool when people
write them. I don't know why he thinks it's
like show offy or something. I think it can be a little
performing. I agree.
I I don't know. I was talking about this with my
boyfriend a couple weeks ago at a wedding and I was like, I
don't think I was like, I wouldn't want to recite my own
vows. I would write them and maybe say
it in private, but I wouldn't want to do it in front of
everyone. I feel like, yeah, I feel too
awkward. But then I thought, there is
something really brave about in front of a ton of people
declaring your love for someone and being that vulnerable.
Like, it is very courageous. Yeah, we don't really do that a
lot in life. Have those moments like that.
So it is really special. Yeah, I How wait.
How do we get this? These vows were in the
documentary. Yeah, they read them in the
like, we didn't see the wedding, but they like they read us on
camera, The bows. I see.
And narration, Yeah, I agree. That is brave.
I mean, I guess even if you do the traditional vows to say that
in front of everybody, it's making it really official and
bringing everybody into it. Yeah, I mean, at weddings, I
always completely believe the couple that they're like all in,
that this is their lifetime, they're madly in love, they're
best friends, like something is crazy.
Sometimes it doesn't work out because on the wedding day they
seem 110% sure. I know.
They always like, convince me that this.
Is everlasting, I know. It's crazy when it doesn't work
out. I know, Tricked me.
Especially when it runs like very soon after the wedding,
it's like what happened? I know.
Which does happen. We've covered that.
Yep. So after the wedding, he called
her from the parking lot and they spoke on the phone about
the wedding like they were, you know, she's in prison.
Yeah. So he's like, go in the parking
lot. And they were like, Oh my gosh,
that was amazing. Like, oh, like, it's kind of
sad. And he by himself drove away
with a just married sign on the car.
That's sad. I know they do plan to have a
redo wedding eventually in the future with their friends and
friends and family and six months after, he said in the
prison confessions. It's awful having a wife that
you can't touch on the daily. The reality is me and Gypsy are
in limbo. We are waiting to start our
life. But if I'm betting on a
relationship, I'm betting on success, I'm betting on kids.
The full 9. Wow.
So then, on December 28th, 2023,
Gypsy was released on parole after spending eight years
behind bars of her 10 year sentence, so she must have been
on her best behavior in prison. Ryan, along with Gypsy's dad,
her stepmother Christy, and her half sister rented a house near
the prison and decorated it with a Christmas tree.
And Ryan went to pick her up. And her dad, he seems like such
a sweetheart in the documentary, he says it's like I'm having a
new baby. And he says he's a little
bumped, that Ryan got to pick her up and not him.
But he's like, it's all good. You know, like I'll get this
year soon. When Ryan picks Gypsy up from
prison. There, she's laughing about how
her new post prison outfit doesn't fit.
It's kind of funny. She, like, gets in the car and
she's like, my boots don't fit, nothing fit.
He's like, she's laughing and then she's overwhelmed with joy
just being in a car and she's like, it's going so fast.
It's kind of making you realize, like she has not really been
like a real person and. It is.
Per her parole, Gypsy must go to therapy.
If she can't drink any alcohol, she can't do drugs.
And like I said, she can't have any contact with Nicholas and
she needs to ask for permission to leave the state of Louisiana.
And so they actually Gypsy and Ryan were supposed to go to a
Kansas City Chiefs game in Missouri.
Oh. But Gypsy had said an interview
how she really wanted to meet Taylor Swift, and this might not
be the reason for it. But then immediately Gypsy's
Missouri parole officer was like, you have to leave Missouri
immediately, you have to go right back to Louisiana.
So she doesn't know why that is. But she wasn't allowed to go to
the Kansas City Chiefs game and on Nick Biles podcast she was
speculating it was because Taylor Swift or whatever, like
people started that like became a headline.
And then there were all these articles that were like
convicted felon murderer Gypsy Rose really wants to meet Taylor
Swift at the Chiefs game and spun it into this like dramatic
thing. What the heck, Taylor should
meet her. I know.
Do it. I know Taylor.
That would be iconic. Yeah.
Also, what's she going to do? Stab you?
She's like. No.
That would be crazy. Soon after being released, Gypsy
and Ryan posted a lot of cute selfies of each other to their
Instagram, and they began doing a lot of press interviews.
I was thinking, I feel like it would be difficult doing all
that press while also being together for the very first
time. Yeah.
That's so overwhelming. Like just being together for the
first time is a lot, but then to now suddenly be influencers all
at once. I don't know if that's a good
recipe, I agree. But yeah, like I said, they went
on Nick Files podcast, they did a lot of podcasts and interviews
like Entertainment Tonight and all these different things, Ryan
jokes in that Nick Vile podcast about well.
So Gypsy says it's been very enjoyable.
We spent a couple days at home. I don't think there's anything
that really shocked me about him.
But then she goes on to say that he's getting used to putting the
toilet seat down for her. And then Ryan is like talking
about how Gypsy is on his case, about the toilet seat.
And then he's like, just as I'm on my way to buy her shoes, buy
her new shoes. He's kind of rolling his eyes as
if he's spending a lot of money on her and being kind of
demanding. It's all like cute little
banter, but I don't know, something kind of was weird
about it to me at the same time. Like is is this really a joke,
or is this actually bothering you?
Yeah, sure. I think the the the thing about
as I'm on my way to buy her shoes, I don't like the comment
of like as I'm spending money on her.
Basically she doesn't have a job.
But you said you're married, You said you were going to support
her. That's true.
But I was going to ask you the toilet seat because this came up
with my boyfriend recently because he at his place, the
toilet seat is always up after he goes to the bathroom.
But he just told me that he's making more of an effort to put
it down. And I was raised in a house
where my mom reinforced and my brothers, like, always put the
toilet, toilet seat back down because US women, like,
sometimes we might fall in and we don't realize it's still up.
That has happened to me once or twice.
So my brothers were always really good about it.
Sometimes their friends weren't really.
But then I my boyfriend, he was like, well, I mean, if I'm just
home, it's a lot quicker for me to just leave it up because most
of the time I'm just peeing. Yeah.
But I don't know, is this too personal that could does this
come up in your relationship? The toilet seat.
No, I think, I mean, Charlie has two sisters, so I think he also
is very good about it. I think whenever I'm gone for a
while, I notice it's still up. But yeah, it's been pretty much
no problem. Yeah, it always, I guess the
guys have to do it. They have to touch the seat, but
it always grosses me out to put it in.
Grosses. Me out so much, actually in
public restrooms. Oh my God, that shouldn't.
When it grosses me out, I always like take a piece of toilet
paper to hold it and put it down or something.
Yeah. That grosses me out, yeah.
The toilet seat thing is like a very classic couple banter
thing. It's a very surface level safe
thing to if like someone asks you like what problems you have
in your relationship and it's like, oh the toilet seat, that's
true. It's not like, oh, she has trust
issues and constantly is pointing out my insecurities and
I don't know if I believe that her ex is out of the picture.
It's like, it's like it's very. Surface.
Level. But I was getting like I was
getting a lot of that from their interviews, like just kind of
surface level stuff, you know? And it's hard to tell like.
So they are definitely still getting to know each other.
Yeah, they are. Nick Vile asked them if they've
considered couples therapy, and Gypsy says that she's been
looking for a couple therapists ever since she was in prison,
and that while she was locked up, she was inspired by a lot of
marriage podcasts and that she would frequently send them to
Ryan. Ryan kind of has this, like, I
don't know, I feel like he thinks he's like really like
this, like cool guy. Sorry if that's me being a
little mean, but he's like, yeah, it's cool.
Here's another podcast, like in like kind of like a manly
podcast or something. I don't know.
Yeah. And that he said that he's been
a little overwhelmed by the fame and that she's always a little
worried that he's going to leave because of it, which, you know,
might relate to what happened with that guy Ken, but then
adds, But I'm not going anywhere.
We'll work through whatever we'll work through.
I'm here for the long haul till death do us part.
I mean that. And again, he says.
That people could listen. Oh, sorry, I didn't know people
could listen to podcasts in prison.
Yeah, I don't know that either. Is anybody listening from
prison? Let us know.
Oh, hi, guys. Tell us, like, who's writing You
love letters in prison? Yeah, I mean, again, like, also,
I feel like in prison you're so lonely that, like, you probably
could fall in love with anybody. I hate to say it.
Yeah. Totally.
Anyone who's giving you consistent attention and being
really sweet like you really don't know for sure that that
connection is genuine until you get out into the real world I.
Really felt that way. Like during the pandemic.
Like when I wasn't really socializing at all, I would just
see like a random guy on the street and be like, Oh my God,
he has legs like he's hot. I know you know the same thing.
It's easy. I can imagine.
Yeah, I feel like it's really easy to let fantasies like to
let them carry you away. Meanwhile, Ryan said that it's
been great that there isn't anything that he hasn't enjoyed
about Gypsy. He said she's incredibly
organized and wants to wants to make her feel sure that she
knows that his home is her home. You know, like I said though,
they were very much in the public spotlight this past
month. Ryan was getting a lot of trolls
and haters online after Gypsy's release.
Mostly, a lot of people were saying that he kind of looked
like her mom. Oh my God, yeah.
I don't know if I would say that, but like a lot of people
were like, is this a controlling relationship?
Like is this, you know, another situation?
People were very suspicious of this, Gypsy commented on
Instagram by saying, Ryan, don't listen to the haters.
I love you and you love me. We do not owe anyone anything.
Our family is who matters. If you get likes and good
comments, great. If you get hate then whatever
because they don't matter. I love you because they jealous
because and then she then she adds.
Besides, they jealous because you are rocking my world every
night. Yeah, I said it.
The D is buyer, happy wife, happy life.
Oh my gosh. Very sweet, very sweet.
That's. Nice.
She's stuck. Up, Yeah.
I mean, that's a really sweet. It's funny because there's this
like one in a media person who went up to Gypsy Rose and was
like, what do you have to say to all the haters?
And Gypsy was like, what? I've been trying to work on this
impersonation, but it's not really good.
She's like, well, can't bring me down.
I'm on a high right now. I'm living my best life and
y'all can't take that from me. And then the first one goes and
the D is fire. My God.
I'm on a high right now. Can't bring me down.
Oh, that hurt my throat doing that.
Oh. No.
But then Ryan replied and said who said he also has like a
thick Southern accent. He's like, who said I'd give a
damn about No, that's kind of not really accurate.
It's like a slow accent. It's like, who said I'd give a
damn about what these jealous people say in anyway?
Ha ha. Now come get it, baby.
Oh my God. Dot dot.
So he's not bothered by it, but he is rocking her world.
It's interesting. Yeah, I feel like I knew very
little about this. And all I had heard was people
being worried that, like, he was taking advantage of her and
manipulating her. And that could be true.
But it also sounds like she could be doing that back.
You know what? It's interesting you say that
because I have a clip for you that is getting people a little
worried for Ryan. OK.
So in the clip, Gypsy is answering a question and then
Ryan interjects and you can hear Gypsy whisper telling him to
shut up while squeezing his hand, which is a tactic her
mother used to do to her back when they were out in public
together. OK.
Should I watch it? Yes, for everything.
And now I feel like, oh, I went from 19 to 32.
Jeez, God, I got old so quick. How did that happen?
You never went to school either? Mm hmm.
That's true. You didn't go to school, so
there wasn't, you know, this lineage.
It does look like she said shut up.
Mm hmm. Don't you see how his head drops
after she says that too? And he was saying something like
support, I think supportive to say like you didn't know because
you didn't go to school. I mean, I even said that
earlier, like she didn't go to school, so she wouldn't have
known how old she was. Yeah, I mean, I could give her
the benefit of the doubt. It could be like a shut up like,
like, oh, shut up like. But it's like, that's not
really. He wasn't like mocking her
anything. Like you said he was supporting
her. So like, why?
Why is she telling him to shut up?
And she's whispering it too, so it's not really.
Yeah, she didn't say it in like a joking, sarnostic way.
It's. Sad because I feel bad for Gypsy
like she had been, you know, abused and victimized her whole
life. But the way that her mother
treated her is all she really knows.
I mean, she had no normal relationships at all.
Like she didn't even really have a relationship with her dad,
even though she seems to have a health healthy relationship with
him now and her stepmom. That's all she knows.
Holy crap. And you can't discount what kind
of damage that might have done to her and how that might
influence her in a relationship now.
Like, especially with needing control over a partner.
I don't know. It feels like, I mean if I
couldn't really tell, but like if she was doing the hand
squeezing thing that is just so disturbing.
It's like she's just re living or reacting out the way her mom
was. Yeah, but you know, they want to
have kids someday. And I hope that Gypsy has had
the therapy and the work that she's able to have a normal
relationship on having kids, she said.
The kind of mother that I envision myself being is
absolutely different from my own mother.
I feel like I know everything not to do.
So hopefully Gypsy has some self-awareness, but I'm sure
those things are hard to unlearn, especially even just on
an unconscious level. And maybe there are times when
she. I mean that happens with a lot
of people. Like they've they are aware of
their parents fault and then they find themselves repeating
the same thing, 'cause that's all they've known.
But yeah, that is Gypsy Rhodes and Ryan Anderson.
Ryan Anderson Oh my gosh, I hope that they both are OK and I hope
for the best for them. I hope for the best, but my
percentage unfortunately not super high.
Are there odds that they stay together?
No. What would you say?
I'm going to give them 20%. Yeah, I guess.
Me too. I hope she's not listening.
I know. I do wish them the best and I
think that it's not impossible. I think that they can work
things out. I wow, that was really
fascinating. Thank you Mel.
I I as I said I hadn't really looked too much into it but now
I want to I It is. You know, it's disturbing
everything that happened with her mom, but now it definitely
feels like a new story, more about them as a couple and.
Yeah, I mean, it's really different from any of the
couples we've covered. I like I.
Totally. Different.
I want the best. They both seem like hopeless
romantics. They really want love and they
seem sweet in their interviews recently.
Besides that shut up thing, I hope that means nothing.
I hope we're overthinking it. And I just it's just it started
on shaky ground, so the odds are against them.
But. We'll have to keep watching
what's happening. Maybe we'll have an update
someday. Wow.
Thanks, Mel. Sorry this went over an hour.
Hope your voice is OK. I'm going to take a hot shower
after this, but next week also really, really messy.
Another you know, kind of story that's been in the headlines the
past year, past two years. I would say it's newsworthy.
Oh, OK. I think I know who it is.
Well, you had told me a couple ideas, but I didn't know for
sure what it was. So cool.
All right, Well, thank you so much, Mel.
And thank you everybody listening and.
We'll get back together next week.
Yep. Bye is your.
Heartbeat with pain.