1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:07,960 Are you lonesome tonight? Do you miss me tonight? 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:17,720 Are you sorry? Hi guys. 3 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,080 Welcome to Significant Lovers. We're your hosts. 4 00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:26,480 My name is Mel and I'm Kel. And I'm Caitlin, and in case 5 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,360 you're wondering, this is not a true crime podcast you're 6 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,640 listening to, but a true love podcast. 7 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:40,040 See what I did there? And each week we cover a new 8 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,080 historical or pop cultural couple and figure out why they 9 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,440 worked out or why they didn't and what happened and what that 10 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,880 means for us regular folk and our relationship problems. 11 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,880 Because at the end of the day, it's just like all the tabloids 12 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,240 say celebrities. They are just like US. 13 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,080 Oh, I love that. Wow, Kate, did you write that? 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,200 That was really good. Oh my. 15 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,880 Gosh, I love that Kate. Yeah, I've been inspired because 16 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,640 a lot of the other podcasts have like that I've been listening to 17 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,000 have like a really scripted intro. 18 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,720 So I had to think. Of something that was very well 19 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:16,480 worded. Yeah. 20 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,640 They're just like us. It's true, though. 21 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,560 Yeah. Oh, and part of our intro is me 22 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,000 saying that we're cousins. Yes, in case anybody's brand 23 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,120 new, you just need to know that. Well, technically they are 24 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,320 sisters and I'm their cousin. We're all related. 25 00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:39,000 So you might hear us like talk about, oh, your mom, we're oh 26 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,440 grandpa or something. That's why people that have been 27 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,640 with us since the beginning. I know you're tired of hearing 28 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,040 this, but we love you. Not the significant lovers. 29 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:55,960 Nope, no, that would be wrong, although we've covered cousin 30 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,160 relationship. Well, the person that we're 31 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,840 talking about today had been married previously to two 32 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:08,039 brothers at one point. Yes, we're not saying we like 33 00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:11,560 that, it's just happened, but. Thankfully, that's not the case 34 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:12,800 today. Cool. 35 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,720 And why is that, Kate? Who are we talking about today? 36 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:21,880 So last week I talked to, well, not last week, OK, Last time I 37 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,520 talked about Cleopatra with Julius Caesar, and this time I'm 38 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,160 covering her Cleopatra with Mark Antony. 39 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,400 Heard of him? Yes. 40 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,240 But actually, I don't know what he did to be honest. 41 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,120 I know I. Know less about him than Caesar. 42 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,480 I knew less about him than Caesar too, and less about them 43 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,240 as a couple. Also, 'cause I never read 44 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,640 Anthony and Cleopatra by William Shakespeare. 45 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:55,520 So I kind of also went into this with no idea about Evette. 46 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,360 I need to see the Elizabeth Taylor movie. 47 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,040 I said I was going to, but then I didn't. 48 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,720 But I still want to. You gotta, I mean, I haven't 49 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,680 seen that so. I think it's like 3 hours long 50 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,320 or something. I still want to but just need to 51 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,880 find a good night to do it. Yeah, at least if you're 52 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,120 watching at home, you can take breaks if you need to. 53 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,000 Well, before we begin, I want to thank some new patrons we have 54 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:23,040 over on Patreon. So thank you to Jenny, Natalia, 55 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,880 Amber and Alva. Thank you. 56 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:27,760 Thank. You. 57 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,440 I also want to do an extra special shout out to some of our 58 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,200 long time patrons because their continued support has been 59 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,360 insurmountable and greatly appreciated. 60 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,880 So I want to give a big thanks to Tessa, Sierra, Cara, Yonica, 61 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:47,560 Carrie, Indra, Musna, Inez, Priyanka and Rebecca. 62 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:49,040 Oh yeah? Where'd? 63 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,840 You get this list. From from Patreon. 64 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,560 Oh, the people that have been subscribed the longest, yes. 65 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:02,120 Yeah, thank you guys so much. I feel like you guys, you're 66 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,400 like our friends to us. We love all your comments and 67 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,000 thank you so much for how supportive you are of the 68 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:10,840 podcast. It means so much. 69 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,280 And yeah, we love feeling like we have this community with you 70 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,959 guys and talking about love all the time together. 71 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,760 Really means a lot. So, Kate, do we have our other 72 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,880 favorite segment? At the beginning, we do. 73 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:31,400 We have trivia. So this is between Kelly and 74 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,800 Mel, who usually are really good at trivia, so hopefully you guys 75 00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:39,800 can do good at this bout. Questions that I have. 76 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,840 I was kind of inspired by Mel from the last couple of trivia 77 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:48,600 questions you asked 'cause it was kind of not the normal type 78 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,280 that we asked. So I kind of did something 79 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:52,320 different this time around. Oh. 80 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,400 This is just like whoever's closest, or you know, whoever 81 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,080 gets it. Exactly so #1 including this 82 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:05,040 episode. How many people, not couples has 83 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,840 this podcast covered? Not including the rapid fire 84 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:12,480 episode that were born before the 20th century. 85 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,480 Wait, couples or individuals? People. 86 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,400 Individuals. OK. 87 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,360 And do we have a time limit on how fast we can guess this? 88 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,400 Just whatever your first initial guess is, I guess, and we'll 89 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,320 just lock that in. I don't have like a time limit I 90 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,920 suppose. I'm going to say. 91 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:37,960 Including this episode, you. Said including this episode. 92 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,440 Including this episode. OK, rough guess. 93 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,000 I probably could think about it more, but I am going to say it 94 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,640 feels like it will be 14. OK, Mel, you're locking in that 95 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:51,600 answer. Yes. 96 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:57,000 OK, Kelly. I'm going to say 16. 97 00:05:57,280 --> 00:06:03,440 OK, so neither of you got it exactly, but Kelly was the 98 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,600 closest. The answer was 20. 99 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,440 Wow. Yeah, 20 people. 100 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,640 Wonder who I missed? Well, I'll tell you all of them 101 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,440 after I do question #2 because it'll be kind of a spoiler for 102 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:25,360 that. So which couple consists of an 103 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:30,160 individual or 1/2 of it was born in the 19th century and the 104 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,600 other was born in the 20th century? 105 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:41,520 Oh, I am thinking potentially Wallace Simpson and King. 106 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,240 Wait, what's his name? Senior couple I know. 107 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,520 I think it was Edward, right? Edward yes, but he he went by, I 108 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,200 think like a nickname too, by Edward. 109 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:59,440 It wasn't them. If Scott Fitzgerald and Zelda 110 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,800 Fitzgerald. Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding. 111 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,720 Damn, yay. Oh God. 112 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:11,040 So Zelda was born in 1900, so technically the 20th century, 113 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,040 right on the cusp. So she wasn't included in the 114 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:19,160 list from question number one. And F Scott was born in 1896. 115 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,880 So the people that were born before the 20th century, the 20 116 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:27,840 people were Einstein, his wife Maleva, F Scott Fitzgerald, King 117 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,360 James, George Villier, Mary Shelley, Percy Shelley, Wallace 118 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:37,160 Simpson, Edward the 8th, Edward the 8th who is married to 119 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,800 Wallace Simpson, Annie Oakley, Frank Butler, Marie Antoinette, 120 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,440 Louis the 16th, Jane Austen, Tom Lafoit, John Adams, Abigail 121 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,120 Adams, Cleopatra, Caesar and Marc Anthony. 122 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,600 Wow, wow. Yes. 123 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,920 Cool, we should make a collage or something of all the 124 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,360 historic. People, It was kind of funny 125 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,640 because prior to recording this episode, my dad was asking me 126 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,880 about who we're covering and what trivia questions we were 127 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,880 going to do and he wanted me to ask him one of them. 128 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,200 And I asked him the which couple has one in the 19th and one is 129 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,880 the 20th and he instantly got F Scott and Zelda somehow. 130 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,960 I know, I don't know how he did it anyway. 131 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,000 I actually just read Zelda's book Save Me the. 132 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,200 Wall, which I talked about back in the episode. 133 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,920 And I, you know, it couldn't fit it all in. 134 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,000 We can't do everything when we record it. 135 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,159 But I wish I had read it back then, 'cause it was so obvious. 136 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:35,760 It was like exactly their life and what happened. 137 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:37,240 She just kind of changed the names. 138 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:42,679 It was really interesting. Yeah, so Kelly now has gotten 2 139 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,720 questions right, and there's one question left. 140 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,160 OK. OK, let's just see if I can get 141 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,520 on the board. So this is really about who gets 142 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,640 it the fastest. Who are the only two people this 143 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,000 podcast is covered. Again, not in the rapid fire 144 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,160 episode that were born in the 21st century. 145 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,200 Oh, Olivia Rodrigo and Joshua Bassett. 146 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,920 No, Kelly got it. What? 147 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,520 No, there was a delay. There was a delay. 148 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,440 There was a delay. On the phone there was. 149 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,600 No delay, I heard. Myself being like, done while 150 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,080 you were, yeah. I heard Kelly being done way 151 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:23,920 before you. OK, she got it, but I. 152 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,400 Do it back. But it sounded like Kelly got 153 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,000 it. I think I started saying it at 154 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:29,320 the same. Time. 155 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,880 You hadn't even said Joshua Bassett yet by the time I was, 156 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,160 like, done. I thought saying Olivia Rodrigo 157 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:35,600 was enough. I thought it was enough. 158 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,680 No, I. Said two people. 159 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:42,960 OK, OK, OK. So Kelly got 3 for three. 160 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,920 Damn. Good job, Kelly. 161 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,200 Thank you, Kate. Good game. 162 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:49,680 Thanks, Mel. Good job. 163 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,680 I'm doing that little like baseball thing from like the 164 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:55,400 1920s where they were like shake over their shoulders. 165 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:01,560 Imagined you were doing. Thanks guys. 166 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,560 That's fun. All right. 167 00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:07,920 Kate, what 3 words would you use to describe this couple? 168 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:13,040 OK, so technically I use 4, but it's, you know, seeming like 169 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:19,000 they're so well suited. Passionate and doomed. 170 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:25,320 Doomed. I know, I know, I know. 171 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,200 Spoiler alert. But also a -1 as the last one. 172 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,920 Typical. Didn't we use doomed for another 173 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,440 relationship? Probably I think we might have 174 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:36,920 did. I want to go. 175 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,960 I don't even know if it was you, but I we definitely did. 176 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,080 I want to listen to them all back and like write them down 177 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,280 and see how many overlapping adjectives there are for these. 178 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,360 Couples. Yeah, like which ones are the 179 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,720 most similar? There's so much data like I wish 180 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:53,920 I had. I know. 181 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,040 Seriously, I wish. And then I could categorize it 182 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,680 like, OK, if you guys want to listen to all the doomed couple 183 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:02,640 episodes, listen to these ones. If you want to listen to all the 184 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,480 fiery couples, listen to these. Yeah. 185 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,920 Yeah. Devoted couples listen to these. 186 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:12,920 Maybe I can go back and listen to all of them and categorize 187 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,280 them, but that would be a project. 188 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:20,720 Yeah, 'cause we're on, what, 1/11/13? 189 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,480 I don't know. Something like. 190 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:30,040 That it's pretty high. I think this is I want to say 191 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,080 like 113. Yeah, OK. 192 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,920 Well. I guess the amount of couples 193 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,760 doesn't overlap with the number of episodes, but. 194 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,240 True. I know. 195 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,280 OK. Why are they doomed? 196 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,920 Doomed though. Well, I will get into that in a 197 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,960 second, but first I just wanted. To tell me now. 198 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:54,800 Just kidding, I got. To the end, I can spoil it. 199 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,240 I'm just kidding. OK, well last time I was host 200 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,360 again, I covered the relationship between Cleopatra 201 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,320 and Caesar. And I highly recommend you 202 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,320 listen to this episode or that episode before you listen to 203 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,320 this one if you haven't already. But if you haven't yet, why 204 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:10,560 haven't you? What are you doing? 205 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:14,080 Go listen to it. Not only is it great or what? 206 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,480 Or you could just be like kind of confused the whole episode 207 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,720 and then listen to it and have things cleared up for yourself. 208 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,160 But again, not only is it a great episode, but it will 209 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,440 provide you with a lot more context, like Kelly said, for 210 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,680 some of the events and people I'm going to talk about in this 211 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:34,720 episode that you might need to fully understand this story. 212 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,920 Like, for instance, I'm not going to explain who Cleopatra 213 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,960 is or what her past was in this episode because I did in the 214 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,360 last one. So if you want to know all about 215 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,520 that and her, go back and listen to her episode with Caesar. 216 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,960 Yeah, so she's not just being like, sexist and skipping 217 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,520 Cleopatra's no Fido. No, I already. 218 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:54,800 Covered it. It's already been done. 219 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,800 Yeah, it's already been done. And I used some of the same 220 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,560 sources that I did last time, including Cleopatra Life by 221 00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:04,240 Stacey Schiff. But also this time around I used 222 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,200 Parallel Lives, The Life of Anthony by Plutarch, and he was 223 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,960 my main source. So I just want to put that 224 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:11,200 there. Wow. 225 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,440 He provided a lot of the information I needed to do my 226 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,440 background on Mark Anthony. That's an old source, Kate, I 227 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,240 know. He was alive around the same 228 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,200 time Mark and Cleopatra were alive, so very, very old. 229 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,320 What was his purpose for writing about them? 230 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,280 Just curiosity? Just interest. 231 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:36,600 History taking cause Plutarch especially, he did a biography 232 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,480 of Caesar, a biography of Mark, a biography of Augustus, 233 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,040 biography of all these other people. 234 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,920 So just basically a historian of the time, just taking down all 235 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,640 the information that there need to be telling it to people. 236 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,360 Blue talk. Heavens be, I was thinking that. 237 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,360 Oh. My God, so many Hunger Games 238 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:57,880 quotes and stuff. Yep. 239 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,560 But anyway, OK, who was Mark? We haven't talked about him 240 00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:06,520 really. So Marcus Antonius Credicus or 241 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:08,640 Mark as he's most commonly known as. 242 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,960 He's also known as Anthony, but just for the sake of it, I call 243 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:14,880 him Mark throughout this episode, just so you're aware. 244 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:19,000 How come he is known as Mark Antony and not Marcus Antonius? 245 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:20,120 I. Don't know. 246 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,440 I think just because maybe of cause of Shakespeare, they 247 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,240 Englishified his name. So it's not Marcus Antonius, 248 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,040 it's Mark Antony. I don't know. 249 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:30,160 I see. Yeah. 250 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,440 So I could call him Marcus this entire episode but I just want. 251 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:39,160 Like Mark sexy beast Marcus, it's a Twilight character. 252 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,400 If you know, you know. OK, now. 253 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:51,080 Anyway, so Mark was born January 14th, 83 BC, which makes him 17, 254 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:55,440 younger than Caesar and 13 years older than Cleopatra. 255 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,480 OK, Caesar's definitely the oldest person we've ever talked 256 00:14:58,480 --> 00:14:59,680 about. Definitely. 257 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,600 I wonder if there'll be anyone that's even older maybe? 258 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,480 Not. I don't think so. 259 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,040 I. Mean there's a lot of those 260 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,960 wicked ancient Egyptians and wicked ancient Rome humans 261 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,800 maybe, I don't know. But again, even if I were to 262 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,480 cover someone like that, there's hardly any history on them, so 263 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,680 it would be like a rapid fire probably. 264 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,760 Yeah, so. I know, I know, Mellie, You've 265 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,360 always kind of wanted to do Mary and Joseph. 266 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,520 But that's still even. That would be after. 267 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,080 Yeah, that would be later. Yeah. 268 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:31,000 So they would. Be. 269 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,040 Younger like. Neanderthals we could talk 270 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:40,000 about. I mean, you could do Adam and 271 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:45,600 Eve I suppose. There could be a lot to talk 272 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,200 about. But for the time being, and 273 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,680 probably for quite a while, Caesar will be the eldest person 274 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:58,560 we've ever talked about. But As for Mark? 275 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,920 So Mark was the eldest of four children. 276 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,440 He had two younger brothers and a sister who is also younger 277 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,480 than him and his father was a politician and a pirate hunter 278 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,480 named Marcus Antonius so same name. 279 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,640 And his mother was the third cousin of Julius Caesar named 280 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,760 Julia. So Caesar and Mark are semi 281 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,720 distantly related. Interesting. 282 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:29,880 And apparently Mark and his family are said to be descended 283 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,240 from Hercules. But it's kind of the same thing 284 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,120 as Caesar. You said last night Caesar was 285 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,120 said to be descended from. Oh, who did I say it was? 286 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,680 Oh, now I'm mad at myself for not remembering. 287 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:45,080 Let me go back. Venus. 288 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,520 No. Yeah, it was Venus. 289 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,240 I think it was Venus. So Caesar was said to be 290 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,520 descended from Venus. And now Marcus says to be 291 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,040 descended from Hercules. But as far as I'm aware, 292 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,200 Hercules and Venus didn't exist, but it's treated like it's a 293 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,240 fact, so I just had to put that in there. 294 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,400 Anyway. So in 74 BC, when Mark was 11, 295 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,560 Mark's dad was elected as an army commander or prater and 296 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,680 sent to the Mediterranean to clear the sea of piracy. 297 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,480 And Mark's dad failed miserably in the job. 298 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,200 He was completely defeated by pirates and the Cretians, people 299 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,119 of the island of Crete who helped them. 300 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,800 And it was so bad that as a result of his failure, everyone 301 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:32,080 in Mark's family, including him, Mark and we're given 1/3 name or 302 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,840 cognomen of Cretius, which ironically meant conqueror of 303 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,600 Crete. So it was a dig at Mark's dad 304 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,720 and he and the rest of the family were never able to live 305 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,360 it down. So technically Mark, like last 306 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,880 name Cretius, is just like a nickname that was given to 307 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,520 Mark's dad to make fun of him and they had to live with that. 308 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,600 And they couldn't get rid of it. No. 309 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,840 So Game of Thrones. Oh my gosh. 310 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,560 Yeah, it will get even more. Pirate stuff. 311 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,760 And they were even especially not able to live the name down 312 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,880 when Marks dad died two years later in 72 BC while fighting in 313 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:12,800 Crete, still against like the pirates. 314 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,960 So he was defeated. Dang, yeah. 315 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,880 And shortly after his father's death, Mark's mother married a 316 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,920 politician named Cornelius Allentilus. 317 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,080 However, in 63 BC, Cornelius was accused of being part of a coup 318 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,040 to overthrow the current Roman consoles. 319 00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:32,520 And as a result, he was executed by one of those said consoles, a 320 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,320 man named Cicero, who actually came up in the last episode, if 321 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,160 you remember, as one of Cleopatra's biggest haters. 322 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,960 And he will come up more in this episode. 323 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,880 Cicero. And apparently as a young kid, 324 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,960 amongst all this, Mark was said to be brilliant and bright. 325 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,000 But as he got older, he fell into the wrong crowd, a violent 326 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,880 youth gang. And Mark began drinking 327 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,920 excessively. He regularly frequented brothels 328 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,840 and engaged in love affairs. He gambled so much that he 329 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:06,280 actually amassed a debt of $5,000,000 in today's money and 330 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,800 partook in dangerous, violent campaigns. 331 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,680 I don't know exactly what that last bit necessarily means. 332 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,040 Like campaigns against what? Like or who? 333 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,360 Other gangs? I don't know, but that's what 334 00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:18,720 Plutarch said. But just understand that Anthony 335 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,240 Mark was very much a teenage delinquent. 336 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,080 Wow. And because I know, and because 337 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,080 of all the debt and danger he got himself into, Mark actually 338 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:34,760 had to flee Rome to Greece. Why people were after him? 339 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,840 Yeah, he had like creditors and no, yeah, he had creditors after 340 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,600 him and he also had other gangs after him. 341 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,160 So what a mess. He just. 342 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,320 Ran away and. He's like a teenager at this 343 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,080 point. Yeah, he's a teenager. 344 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,200 And he stays in Greece actually for a good amount of time 345 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,760 because in 57 BC, at the age of 26, he's still in Greece. 346 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,840 And Mark was invited to join the Roman army on an expedition to 347 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,160 Syria. And at first, Mark declined the 348 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,560 invitation, but eventually agreed when he was offered the 349 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,800 position of cavalry commander. And even though he had no prior 350 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,480 military experience, Mark was a skilled commander and in his 351 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,880 first expedition of Syria he almost single handedly defeated 352 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:17,880 his enemies. What? 353 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:22,520 I think maybe just all of his experience in the gangs helped 354 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,280 him out with that. I don't know. 355 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,560 But then after Syria, Mark then commanded a Calvary to Egypt. 356 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,360 Yeah. And I mentioned this in the last 357 00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:35,160 episode, again, lots of mentioned the last episode that 358 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,440 there's a point in time when Cleopatras father, King Ptolemy, 359 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,920 these 12th was banished by the people of Alexandria and that 360 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,080 the Roman army helped restore him to the throne. 361 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:48,040 Well, Mark was actually part of that Roman force that helped 362 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,240 him, a huge part. Even The work Mark did during 363 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,600 this expedition was pretty much the entire reason Ptolemy 364 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,800 regained his throne in the end. Mark was also the reason there 365 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,280 is less bloodshed than there was. 366 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,720 According to historians near the expedition's end, King Ptolemy 367 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,920 had been so overcome with anger at the Egyptian people that he 368 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,400 wanted to massacre a ton of them. 369 00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:10,640 But Anthony was the one who stepped in and stopped him, and 370 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,120 for many reasons than just that. Mark was looked on and 371 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:15,520 remembered very kindly by the Egyptian people. 372 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:20,080 He's also been described as very noble, honorable, compassionate, 373 00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:24,920 a good soldier, approachable, generous, humble, good at giving 374 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,960 relationship advice, a real man of the people. 375 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:31,400 It was said he would eat with his men, which was said to have 376 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,120 made them all worship him. He's also been said to have a 377 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:38,040 good sense of humor. All muscle and mirth is how he's 378 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,240 described. He'd laugh at jokes Heather made 379 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,920 at his own expense, and he would hatch practical jokes of his 380 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,040 own. Oh, he sounds like a great guy. 381 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,520 I know he sounds. Like a real cat. 382 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,600 He actually does even like throughout this whole story I 383 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,120 was like, Oh my God, I love Mark. 384 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:55,920 I don't know. But OK, you said that he helped 385 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,640 like her father, regain power, so does that make him? 386 00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:02,080 How old is Cleopatra when this happened? 387 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,840 Like a little girl? Yeah, so I'll even go into this. 388 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,120 But so when Mark was helping out with this, he was like 26 to, 389 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,760 well, 27 to 28 years old. And that was actually the first 390 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,560 time he ever saw Cleopatra, who at the time would have been 391 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,560 about 1415 years old while he was in Egypt fighting for her 392 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,480 dad. But they did not officially 393 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,400 meet. He only saw her once, apparently 394 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,640 from far away, and she didn't see him. 395 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,080 And again, they didn't officially meet. 396 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,920 And so it wouldn't be for many years later that they would go 397 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,680 on to meet. But he did see her. 398 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,600 But she was 15 and he was 28. OK. 399 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,560 That's good. Yeah. 400 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,200 For our modern yeah, sensibility, yeah. 401 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,600 He didn't like, see her and start pursuing her then or 402 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,760 anything. Mark was also said to be 403 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,800 Herculean. Lee handsome. 404 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,960 Oh which he is a descendant of Hercules so apple doesn't fall 405 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,080 far from the tree or something he had was what was described as 406 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,440 an acculine. Or is it acculine? 407 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,240 I would say acculine. Acculine. 408 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,880 Acculine. An acculine or boxer nose, A 409 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:15,480 strong masculine physique, a powerful neck, bouncing curls 410 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,480 and supposedly swaggering air to him. 411 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,480 So really hot, essentially. Really hot. 412 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,640 And he was well liked, so I guess he was the total package, 413 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,600 I suppose. Then after his time in Egypt, in 414 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,840 53 BC, Mark returned to Rome and then in 52 BC he was elected as 415 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,680 the official Roman treasurer, or creaster as they called it. 416 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,760 However, he did not stay in Rome for long as he shortly after 417 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,640 joined Caesar in his conquest of Gaul or today's France, and 418 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,080 apparently he was a great assistance to Caesar during this 419 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,840 conquest. And then after Gaul in 50 BC, 420 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,800 Mark returned again to Rome and was appointed the role of Augur, 421 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,840 which essentially was a religious figure who interpreted 422 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,560 the will of the gods to sanction political and military actions, 423 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:11,000 which is basically like if you hired a psychic as like counsel 424 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,000 to the president, essentially. How do you how do you spell 425 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,240 that? Augur, AUGUR. 426 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:19,560 OK. How is he qualified for that? 427 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,160 I don't know. I guess he just sounds like the 428 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,040 ranks and I don't know but. He sounds like he's good with 429 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,160 his hands. Yeah, in the military planning 430 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,760 strategy, I'm sure. But like how does that make him 431 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,360 good at interpreting the gods messages? 432 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:40,400 I don't know. I think somehow you run for that 433 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,280 role and then you get appointed it. 434 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,520 It was a really high position for some reason to be, you know, 435 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,680 this auger. And it was just like the next 436 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,720 step in his career. I don't know. 437 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,760 I don't know what their perspective was, but maybe 438 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,680 they're like, well, he's had so much success so. 439 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,560 It would be like. Really, he's tapped into 440 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,760 something. Yeah, there would be like a 441 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,880 storm. And they would be like, Auger, 442 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,200 what does this mean for us? And he'd be like, we're going to 443 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,760 win in the next battle, so fight. 444 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,200 OK. So that was his job, but not for 445 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,920 too long, because once again, Mark didn't hold the job for 446 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,040 long, as the following year, with the help of Caesar, Mark 447 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,920 was elected as a Roman Tribune, which was a powerful position 448 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,040 whose role was to represent the people in the Senate and 449 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,840 interview, intervene on their behalf and veto any legislation 450 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,600 that did not benefit them. Wow, it really makes me think 451 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,120 like if you ever get accused of job popping, just be like, you 452 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:44,560 know, Mark Antony had a new job like every year, so. 453 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,720 And so did. Why can't? 454 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,160 Yay. And James. 455 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,280 Yeah, they're constantly job hopping and they were rich and 456 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,720 powerful and people still love them to this day. 457 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,200 So you know what? Just do it. 458 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,080 If you want a new job, go get it. 459 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,840 Well, around this time, Anthony married one of his cousins named 460 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:10,640 Antonia Ibrida Minor, and they had a daughter named Antonia. 461 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,120 And that's pretty much all historians know about his love 462 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:15,120 life at the time. Most of what was recorded about 463 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:17,240 Mark was his military and political career. 464 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,760 So I really don't have anything else to say about him and his 465 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,200 wife or his marriage at that time. 466 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,200 But he used to go to brothels, yes. 467 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,720 I wonder if he still does. I think he did, at least at this 468 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,600 point of time. Now that he's married. 469 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,400 OK, yeah, later they say he's like one of the most loyal man, 470 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,760 but they don't say that until way later. 471 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:45,200 So I think at this point he was still skeeving around and 472 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaking of his political and military career and not his love 473 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,200 life. As a tribune in the Senate, Mark 474 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,680 allied himself fiercely with Caesar, which was quite 475 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,680 unpopular actually at the time, because at this point the Roman 476 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,800 Civil War was beginning or on the precipice of beginning, and 477 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,280 many believe that Caesar should disband his army. 478 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,800 And when Mark openly questioned their logic, asking why Caesar 479 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,080 should disband his army and not Pompey, or both Caesar and 480 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,760 Pompey, Mark was actually expelled from the Senate. 481 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,680 And then Mark fled to Caesar and Gaul and told him what happened. 482 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,080 And after that, though not wholly because of it, Caesar 483 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,800 took his troops and marched on the city of Rome and thus 484 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,240 officially launched the Roman Civil War. 485 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,960 And during this war, Mark was entrusted by Caesar with the 486 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,520 command of his troops and the administration of Italy, because 487 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,840 Caesar was a way fighting Pompey abroad. 488 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,840 And again, Mark was regarded as a great military leader, but 489 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,360 apparently he was regarded as a lazy politician. 490 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:47,120 He had no patience for it. And he grew unpopular partially 491 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:50,240 also because at the same time he took to sleeping with a lot of 492 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:56,080 Ben's wives, so not faithful to his cousin, which I guess isn't 493 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,760 a bad thing 'cause it's his cousin. 494 00:27:58,040 --> 00:27:59,320 But. Oh my God, is it? 495 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,160 His first cousin. I think it was his first, 496 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,840 really. Oh God, take a drink by the way. 497 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,040 Yeah, Oh yeah. Take a drink. 498 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,080 I am drinking a cider right now. I'm drinking a white cloth 499 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,920 surge. Did you take that? 500 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,040 Oh, you're at home right now? Yeah, I'm at home. 501 00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:18,640 That's all I have to drink. I'm having a Diet Coke. 502 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,960 Nice, nice. Well, Mark was a key figure in 503 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,360 helping Caesar win the civil war and become deep and become 504 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:28,160 dictator. And as a result Caesar named 505 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:33,160 then 35 year old Mark Master of the horse, which was a very high 506 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,040 position in Roman society. The Master of horse was 507 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,000 essentially the second in command to the dictator, similar 508 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,640 to a vice president. So when the dictator was absent, 509 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,480 for whatever reason, the master of horse was considered the 510 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,280 highest supreme authority, and that was Mark at the time. 511 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,400 And so Game of Thrones. Yeah, so like the Hand of the 512 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:53,560 King or whatever. Yeah. 513 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,400 And. Coin Master of Ships. 514 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,320 So he was master of horse. And so when Caesar left in 48 BC 515 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,440 to go to Egypt to quell the Egyptian civil war and then 516 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,440 Romance Queen Cleopatra, Mark was left as the supreme 517 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,000 authority in Rome. And like I said before, Mark was 518 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,400 not a good politician. He did a very pissed poor job 519 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,000 during the two years Caesar was away. 520 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,240 You say piss poor. Yeah, piss poor. 521 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:21,960 You said it's a like matter of fact. 522 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,120 I know. Did a piss poor job. 523 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:31,840 Well, that's me rephrasing how it's described by Plutarch, 524 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,120 essentially. Apparently he reverted back in 525 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,600 his old ways. He drank excessively, spent 526 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,760 money lavishly, and engaged in numerous affairs. 527 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,160 He was known to be either drunk or hungover most of the time and 528 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,280 everyone was dissatisfied or disgusted by him. 529 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,480 Apparently he would show up to like Senate meetings and just 530 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,200 like, throw up and fall asleep. Oh my. 531 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,120 God. Like, wow, I know, not a great 532 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,080 look for Mark. And Caesar, when he came back 533 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,400 from Egypt, was also dissatisfied and disgusted by 534 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,840 him. He actually stripped Mark of his 535 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,760 title and his job was given to somebody else. 536 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,600 What do you think his problem was? 537 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,080 Yeah. Like what inner demon was 538 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,320 causing this destructive behavior? 539 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,520 I don't. Even know what I think it's just 540 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,000 like left to his own devices. It was crazy or something. 541 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,280 He just can't be left to his own whims or something. 542 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,280 I don't know. But thankfully, more structure. 543 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:30,920 Yeah. But thankfully, because he was 544 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:35,520 stripped of his title in 46 BC, this kind of shocked Mark out of 545 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,400 his scandalous ways. And this is kind of the last 546 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,280 time he goes down this dark path. 547 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,120 And he cleaned up his act almost immediately. 548 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,440 He still was, kind of. Rock. 549 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,720 Bottom. Yeah, he hit rock bottom and he 550 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,960 was thankfully swimming back up to the surface, who's still kind 551 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,920 of close to Caesar, but their friendship was a little rocky 552 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,880 because of this, so he tried to get better relationship with 553 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,600 Caesar. So yeah, he cleaned up his act. 554 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,200 And part of cleaning up his act was actually divorcing his wife 555 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:06,120 and then marrying another woman in 47 or 46 by BC when Mark was 556 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,440 either 36 or 37 and it. Doesn't seem right. 557 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,480 I know but I know she's his cousin. 558 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,880 I know. I don't know if also like his 559 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,520 ex-wife was enabling his behavior or what. 560 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,160 Which sucks. I know we've had couples like 561 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,040 this in the past but. Oh what? 562 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,040 Like he finally gets better when he like, leaves for somebody. 563 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,800 Else and his new wife was actually a woman named Folvia, 564 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,800 and she had been the wife of one of Mark's late best friends who 565 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,040 died during the Civil War. And many people, including 566 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,120 Cicero, speculate that Mark and her may have had an affair while 567 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,320 his friends. Still alive? 568 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,520 That's crazy. That could be like its own store 569 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,160 right now. Literally. 570 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,160 And this So Mark getting with Cleopatra isn't the first time 571 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,320 actually that Mark gets with the widow of one of his friends. 572 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,920 I'll talk more about that later. And apparently Folvia was not 573 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,600 the type of woman to be a housewife or submissive to her 574 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,160 husband. According to Plutarch, her 575 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,160 desire was to govern those who governed or to command a 576 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,440 commander in chief, and that she broke in and schooled Mark to 577 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:17,080 accept the sway of women. So she kind of helped him clean 578 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,760 up his act also and basically become a loyal husband. 579 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,360 Nice. Yeah, and apparently later, 580 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,600 skipping ahead, I don't spoil too much, but Cleopatra thanked 581 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:33,400 Folvia for making Mark such a good husband, essentially. 582 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:36,400 Interesting. Yeah. 583 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,080 Sister Wives I. Don't know how I feel about 584 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,600 that. Well, going back to the current 585 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,920 timeline that we're on, Folvia and Mark would go on to have two 586 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,680 children together. But the same year that Mark and 587 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:54,040 Folvia married Cleopatra, then about 24 traveled to Rome for 588 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,840 the first time at the Hippohusk of Caesar, which we talked about 589 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,640 at length in the last episode. So again, go listen to that. 590 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:04,280 And she was there alongside her and Caesar's one year old child 591 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,280 Caesarian. And this would have been the 592 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,280 first time she and Mark officially met, like I said 593 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,400 before, because they met before kind of in a way, but this would 594 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,720 be the first time they really met met. 595 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,280 But they're both in relationships. 596 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,520 Yeah, she's with Caesar and he's with Volvia. 597 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,600 Oh, it just seems like last time, like he was at the house 598 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,600 or something, but they didn't talk. 599 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,040 He just saw her, essentially. Yeah, Yeah. 600 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,480 So it wasn't love at first sight. 601 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:40,080 No, no because she was also like 15, which maybe at that point in 602 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:45,000 time would have been more chill, but even Mark himself didn't 603 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,160 think it was love at first sight. 604 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,080 And nothing happened back then and nothing happened also during 605 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,360 this time when she was in Rome with Caesar as far as we know. 606 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,400 But it seems like nothing happened and nothing would 607 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,520 happen until after Caesar's death. 608 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,280 Now, I didn't mention this in the last episode, but Mark was 609 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,360 actually kind of inadvertently part part of the reason why 610 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,080 Caesar was assassinated. Kind of what it wasn't him doing 611 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,080 it, but I'll explain. So in 44 BC, Mark was elected as 612 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,560 one of the two consuls of Rome. This was the highest legal 613 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,480 administrative office in the Roman government beneath Caesar, 614 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,840 who was once again dictator. And Mark was very faithful to 615 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,239 Caesar. He seemingly worshipped him even 616 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,840 despite any past bad blood they had between them. 617 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,960 And so one day in February of 44 BC, during a festival, Mark 618 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,320 fashioned a crown out of lower and placed it on Caesar's head. 619 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:37,920 And Caesar declined the crown twice, But the damage was 620 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,520 already done. By making crown and putting it 621 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,120 on Caesar's head, it was kind of signifying that Caesar either 622 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,440 should be or was already king of Rome. 623 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,480 And the people of Rome did not like that idea at all. 624 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,199 Kings to them meant the destruction of liberty, as 625 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:55,960 opposed to dictator, which was their name for a ruler and 626 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,040 elected for. Democracy. 627 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,200 Yeah, democracy, even though dictator has a weird 628 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,800 connotation. Now, yeah, because Rome, he was 629 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,600 a Republic and dictator was an elected republican, elected 630 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,120 authority in a Republic anyway, so. 631 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,360 It's kind of cute that Mark, like, I guess loved him so much. 632 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,600 He was like, I put this little crown on you, like stop it and 633 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,160 he put it back on him. Yeah, I mean, it's really 634 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,120 unknown why Mark did it. It could be because he's trying 635 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,400 to like suck up to Caesar by saying he should be king, or he 636 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,840 truly thought so and did it out of blind devotion by being like 637 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,480 here you're king. I don't know. 638 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,440 Some people also think Caesar had Mark do it to show that 639 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:42,360 people to show the people that he wasn't king, or maybe gosh, 640 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,840 the public's reaction to him being king. 641 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,360 But either way, like I said, the deed did not go over well. 642 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,160 And a month later, on March 15th, Caesar was assassinated. 643 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,920 Possibly related to that because he thought he was getting too 644 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,200 powerful. Yeah, and could. 645 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,040 Some people want him to be king, yeah. 646 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,800 Exactly. And initially, he didn't stab 647 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,440 him. No, he wasn't. 648 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,520 No, he was just kind of a smoking gun. 649 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,760 But he didn't do the stabbing. He wasn't a part of the coup 650 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,960 against him. No, but he should have been a 651 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,440 little smarter, yeah. Again, he's not a good 652 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,760 politician or. Political. 653 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,120 Person When it comes to war, yes. 654 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,800 Politics, no. So initially Mark fled Rome 655 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,920 because he feared he would be next, but then he realized that 656 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,720 that was not the case. So he returned back and was made 657 00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:37,480 the state's treasurer once again and in charge of Caesar's 658 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,880 papers. And on March 19th, it was 659 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,400 revealed that Caesar named his grandnephew Octavian Augustus, 660 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,480 his heir. And immediately Mark hated this 661 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,280 quote UN quote boy, as he called him, because was. 662 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,320 He not a little boy. No. 663 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,080 Well, Augustus was 18, which was young to that I suppose. 664 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:02,400 So some historians think that Mark hated Augustus because 665 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,280 Mark, for whatever reason, thought that he was going to be 666 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,800 adopted and named Air by Caesar. I don't know why. 667 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,680 What, like Mark who was like in his 30s like. 668 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:17,560 Married with kids. Yeah. 669 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,520 And so when Augustus reached room, Mark initially started 670 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,400 challenging his inheritance. And so, because Mark didn't 671 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,880 really have a claim, he threw his weight heavily behind 672 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,720 Cleopatra and her son's claim to the throne, but to no avail. 673 00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:36,840 Cleopatra left for Egypt with her son shortly after, and two 674 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,440 years would pass before they would see each other again. 675 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,000 OK, you're going back to Egypt. Yeah, but she is. 676 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,440 Yeah, and like I said, Mark did not like Augustus, and the 677 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,800 feeling was mutual. There was rumors at the time 678 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,120 that Augustus was pronged to kill Mark, unsure if true, but 679 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,880 most likely it was. Augustus was also convinced that 680 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,800 Cicero, Mark's other nemesis, the one that killed Mark's 681 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,400 stepfather, to give a series of public speeches that proclaimed 682 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,880 Mark as an enemy of the state and a tyrant. 683 00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:10,080 And for that reason, many others Mark was driven out of Italy to 684 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,280 Gaul, where he was eventually defeated in battle against 685 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,360 Augustus's force. And that's the end of the story. 686 00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:18,800 What do you mean that's the story? 687 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,160 No, I'm just kidding. Anyway, so that's not it. 688 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,200 Mark didn't die. Augustus did defeat him in 689 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,840 battle, but he did spare him for some reason, I don't know why, 690 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:34,400 and the two formed a truce. So in 43 BCA year after Caesar's 691 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,840 death, Augustus, Mark and another man named Lepidus formed 692 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,840 was called the Second Triumvirate and divided the 693 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,560 empire amongst the three of them. 694 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,920 And as part of this truce, Augustus had Cicero killed as a 695 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,320 sacrifice to appease. Mark what? 696 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,120 But wasn't Cicero part of the Yeah, Cicero? 697 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,080 No, he wasn't he. Was like an ally with Augustus 698 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,000 but Mark really wanted him dead so Augustus had him killed. 699 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,640 Damn. OK. 700 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,400 Yeah, and contrary to Caesar, who? 701 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,760 Diplomatic, I guess. Yeah, and contrary to Caesar, 702 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,760 who I talked about last episode, who when he was brought the head 703 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,120 of his enemy, he was really upset by it and didn't like it. 704 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:20,240 Mark on the other hand, when he got Cicero's head, he had it 705 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,920 displayed. That's a. 706 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,160 Turn. Off so not a good look for Mark, 707 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,560 but he kind of is a brute. But that was ancient Rome, so. 708 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,640 Different time back then Take a drink. 709 00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:38,760 Take a drink. I actually need to take a drink. 710 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,040 My throat. 'S he's kind of reminding me of 711 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,400 like, oh, I know, sorry, Mel, I know you didn't watch Game of 712 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,200 Thrones, but like Oberyn Tyrell or something. 713 00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:51,520 I think he's very similar. That's Pedro Pascal's character, 714 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,160 yeah. Surrounding me of him, I feel 715 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,280 like he would like the head of an enemy too. 716 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,720 Definitely he wanted to kill that mountain guy and probably 717 00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:02,360 would have liked to have his head anyway. 718 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:03,680 Sorry Mel. So. 719 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,440 This one to just connect it to something that you feel like you 720 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,600 really understand, you know? Yeah. 721 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,960 I see the reference exactly why Dora Dora Martin wrote it like 722 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,240 that, yeah. He's definitely very inspired by 723 00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:19,200 this time period and these families. 724 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,680 So. So anyway, back to the story. 725 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,560 Through Augustus's and Mark's truce, they joined their forces 726 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,920 to wage war on Brutus and Cassius, two men who had been 727 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,680 involved in the assassination of Caesar and both were killed by 728 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,840 the end of the war. They did what they want to do 729 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,120 and after the war, Mark went to Greece and then Turkey. 730 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,960 And while in Turkey, Mark sent for Cleopatra to join him as he 731 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,520 had heard rumors that she had funded Cassius forces against 732 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,560 Augustus during the war. I'm not sure if she did or not, 733 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,880 there's no record of it, but if she did it might have been 734 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,600 because she thought that with Augustus dead her sights her son 735 00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,040 might be made Caesar's heir. So even though she wasn't happy 736 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,800 about Caesar being dead and probably doesn't like Brutus or 737 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,680 Cassius, the men who killed him, she probably thought that they 738 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,920 had a like minded enemy. So the enemy of my enemy is my 739 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:13,680 friend. So. 740 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,720 That's probably why. So initially, Cleopatra didn't 741 00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:21,080 want to go to see Mark, in part because she disliked being 742 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,680 bossed around and told what to do, being that she was a queen 743 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,520 and who was Mark to tell her what to do? 744 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,640 And she might have also feared what would happen to her if she 745 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,360 were to go. The stakes were very high. 746 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,400 But then Cleopatra was apparently told, according to 747 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,200 Plutarch, that Mark was the gentlest and most chivalrous of 748 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,640 generals, and that she shouldn't fear him. 749 00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:43,480 She had known him from her previous time in Rome. 750 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,400 But they most we did not know one another in a personal 751 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,040 capacity. So this was kind of the first 752 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,920 time she really was told and really understood who he was. 753 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:58,160 And so in 41 BC, at the age of 28, Cleopatra went to Turkey to 754 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,680 convene with Mark, who was then 42 years old. 755 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,440 OK, not too bad. Definitely a smaller age gap 756 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,200 than her and Caesar. Yeah, it's only 13 years. 757 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,280 Meanwhile her age gap with Caesar was 30 years. 758 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,280 Pretty big. So Cleopatra went to see Mark. 759 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,360 However, she did it on her own terms, so not theirs. 760 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,280 Supposedly she was to meet Mark at his throne in Turkey as soon 761 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,400 as she arrived, but against his orders, she sailed from the 762 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:32,000 Sidneyus River in a golden barge with purple sails and orchestra 763 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,160 aboard. Her attendees dressed as cupids 764 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,720 and sea nymphs, and herself dressed as Venus as she lounged 765 00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:42,600 in the canopy. Oh, is she? 766 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,640 So over the top. She's she's there on it, like 767 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,760 she wants to get together with him. 768 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,760 No. So it was in a romantic cast. 769 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,760 He like going to seduce him. I mean, it could have been, but 770 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,360 what she was really trying to signify to him is like, I'm 771 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:04,920 queen, Yeah, I'm queen, and you're not even the dictator of 772 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,600 Rome, so bow to me. Does seem like she's coming in 773 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:09,920 hot though. She's. 774 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:11,680 Yeah. All dolled up. 775 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,880 I love the theatrics of it just 'cause I watched the Grammys 776 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,360 last night. It's just so modern in a way, 777 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,360 like our outfits and our decoration. 778 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,600 Very much so. And when she sailed down the 779 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,640 river, she did not go to where he was waiting to meet her, but 780 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,800 to her temporary address in the city. 781 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,000 And her entrance, like I said, was her mind mark, that she was 782 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,400 queen and not a simple servant he could boss around. 783 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,160 And not only that, but to get his attention and thrall him, so 784 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,400 to say. So not seduce him, but just like 785 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,520 he goes to Greece, he goes to Turkey, he goes all these places 786 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,120 and people pull up all the stops to impress him. 787 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,440 So she knows she has a lot of competition in doing so. 788 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,600 She she really has to really do something big to get his 789 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,880 attention. So Mark at the time did control 790 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:02,680 the East, including Egypt. And Cleve Hatcher knew it would 791 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,600 be best not to stay on his bad side. 792 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,600 And after ignoring his letters to meet for months, she knew she 793 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:13,080 needed to basically woo him. She's been there for months. 794 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,800 And she's just been, yeah, he's been there for months. 795 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,640 And she's just been ignoring his letters saying like, come meet, 796 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:19,680 you know? Wow. 797 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,360 And she did get his attention, especially also the people of 798 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,080 Turkey's attention. Word spread very quickly that 799 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,640 Cleopatra had arrived, and once it did, everyone was captivated. 800 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,560 Apparently, the marketplace near where Mark was waiting for her 801 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,040 had completely emptied out just so they could go to the 802 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,560 riverbank and watch her. And soon after she arrived, 803 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,040 Cleopatra sent word to Mark that Venus had arrived to revel with 804 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:49,160 Bacchus for the good of Asia. And if you don't know which I 805 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:53,560 didn't, is the Roman God of agriculture, wine and fertility, 806 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,480 which is the equivalent to the Greek God Dionysies, which may 807 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:02,680 seem rhymed them to call him Dionysies, but it wasn't for no 808 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,720 reason her calling him that Mark actually was declared the new 809 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:11,560 Dionysies or Dionysies the back benefactor and joybringer during 810 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,000 his time in Greece. So she's basically saying like 811 00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:19,600 I'm Venus and Guru Dionysies and we're going to getting together 812 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:20,640 to. Damn. 813 00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:24,920 Yeah, so she's kind of wooing him in that way just to get on 814 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,880 his good side. I actually knew that about 815 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:32,400 Bacchus because my fave place in New Orleans, I've only been 816 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,680 twice, but fave place is this place called Bacchanal Wine Bar. 817 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,960 It's so cool. It's like a house with a 818 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,600 backyard and the whole place. It's cool. 819 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,320 Christmas lights. I'm like, I don't, I love it. 820 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:45,960 But anyway, it's called Bacanel Wine Bar. 821 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:47,640 And we were wondering like, what does that mean? 822 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,960 And we looked it up. So I actually knew that. 823 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,720 Wow. Yeah, I did not know that so. 824 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:56,280 After that's kind of flirty. It is a little bit. 825 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,960 So after Mark received her message, he sent one back, 826 00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:01,960 inviting her to dinner where he was staying. 827 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,120 But Cleopatra in response said no, Come have dinner at my 828 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,960 place. And Mark was hard to get 829 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,440 frustrated. Yeah, definitely playing hard 830 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:12,760 get. We don't really know. 831 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,640 But it was recorded by Plutarch that he accepted her invitation 832 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,880 nonetheless, whether he was frustrated or not. 833 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,200 So and so to show his supposed courtesy and goodwill. 834 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,840 And apparently her banquet was magnificent beyond words and 835 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,200 decked out in an extraordinary number of candles, A true 836 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,400 spectacle. And they dined every night 837 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,640 afterward, all at Cleopatra's insurmountable expense. 838 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,560 Apparently, at the end of every night, all the furniture and 839 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,920 tableware and decorations would go home with the guests, and 840 00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,560 then the very next night there would be all new stuff. 841 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,720 Wow. So she was really flaunting her 842 00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:51,240 wealth. And one time she even had a foot 843 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,840 of roses blanket the entire floor. 844 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:55,520 A. Foot. 845 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,400 Yeah. So like the roses were all up to 846 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,280 like your knees. That would be so fun. 847 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,040 It would be. Like snow? 848 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,200 Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, I'd be like snow. 849 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,200 You're just waiting for roses. They're so lucky back then, they 850 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,760 probably don't have to worry about like, being wasteful. 851 00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,320 I know global warming and everything. 852 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,560 But still, that would be hard to get. 853 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,600 It would be hard to get. I know it must have been 854 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,360 expensive. I don't know. 855 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,080 Maybe Turkey has a lot of roses, I don't know. 856 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:27,160 Must. Have been so expensive. 857 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,440 Are they in like Constantinople? No, they're not. 858 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,840 They're in another city, but I don't remember which. 859 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,320 But it wasn't constant example. So anyway, eventually Mark felt 860 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,360 that it was time to reciprocate all her generosity. 861 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,200 So a week or so after their first dinner, he invited 862 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,160 Cleopatra to a banquet of his own. 863 00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,400 He apparently tried to surpass her in hospitality and 864 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,680 extravagance, but again, according to Plutarch, he was 865 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,120 hopelessly outdone on both fronts and was the 1st to make 866 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,040 fun of himself and the less than quality banquet he planned. 867 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,600 Cleopatra didn't seem to mind however, and was actually taken 868 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,640 with his humor and his crudeness and that mark seemed more akin 869 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,640 to a soldier than a courtsier, and as a result it seemed that 870 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,320 she was able to loosen up and act more herself around him. 871 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,880 When he cracked jokes, she joked right back and there was an ease 872 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,560 to their interactions. I know this sounds really 873 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,000 stupid. I don't know if you guys will 874 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,920 get it, but this story and Caesar for some reason reminds 875 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,880 me the courtship getting together kind of reminds me of 876 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:31,800 like The Sims when you want people to get together and so 877 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,360 you just like start funny conversations, say flirty 878 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,240 conversation. Like you just keep like hitting 879 00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:41,000 the prompts and like the more time they spend together, even 880 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,080 if you're like forcing it, it just happens. 881 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,000 It's like the love meter just keeps growing and growing. 882 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,040 I feel that I get that. Maybe because we don't know what 883 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:53,360 exactly they were cracking jokes. 884 00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,720 Yeah, exactly. So far away, yeah, but it is 885 00:48:57,720 --> 00:48:59,640 like we're God just watching like this. 886 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:04,040 Yeah, yeah, we know true jokes, but we don't know what. 887 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,800 And we can't watch like interviews or something. 888 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,320 Yeah, well, his story, yeah. Back to the story anyway. 889 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,880 Historian Stacey shifts surmise that Mark brought out a side of 890 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,280 Cleopatra that no one in their entourage had ever seen before. 891 00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:21,640 And supposedly, and Mark's own words later in life, Turkey was 892 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,960 where Cleopatra and Mark first began their relationship. 893 00:49:27,240 --> 00:49:30,040 Like, physically, yeah. Sexually. 894 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,760 Definitely. On the barge. 895 00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,240 Probably happened last time. I don't. 896 00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:39,960 Know it did happen last time. I mean, just like last time with 897 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,520 her relationship with Caesar. Many historians and secondary 898 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,320 sources believe that their relationship was born out of 899 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,800 convenience and political aspirations, and most normally, 900 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,480 once again they believe Cleopatra was the perpetrator 901 00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,720 who purposely ensnared Mark with her sexuality. 902 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,880 However, actually, unlike last time Plutarch, who was only a 903 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,680 few years old at the time when all this went down in Turkey, 904 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,560 but even still he is a very close primary source. 905 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,960 He's waged that what Mark Cleopatra had was indeed a love 906 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,920 affair, but that it just so happened to harmonize well with 907 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,120 other matters at hand. So to say. 908 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,280 It was kind of like hitting two birds with one stone type of 909 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,160 situation. Yeah, like kind of modern 910 00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:24,320 couples today, like they might have alter your motives for 911 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:28,400 being together or they might have career aspirations that 912 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,920 benefit from them being together, but that doesn't mean 913 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,960 they're not in love. Exactly. 914 00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,720 And I don't really know how Plutarch came to this 915 00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:37,440 conclusion. He might have had insider 916 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,040 knowledge or something, I don't know, but considering how 917 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,480 seemingly biased and pessimistic everyone else seemed to be once 918 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,920 again 1st century Roman writers, I choose to believe his 919 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,200 interpretation about the rest. But that's just me. 920 00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,160 Listen to the rest of the episode and let me know what you 921 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,520 think. But anyway, if you do believe 922 00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,880 like me that Cleopatra and Mark were indeed romantic and sexual, 923 00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,280 then we had to acknowledge the elephants in the room or rather 924 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:06,640 ghost Julius Caesar because Mark and Caesar have been friends and 925 00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,560 Caesar and Cleopatra used to be couple and now Mark and 926 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,800 Cleopatra are together and it's like what does this mean? 927 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:17,400 And is it even ethical? I don't know I mean not ethical, 928 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,040 you know what I mean. But basically like is it weird 929 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,040 that Mark got with his friends widow? 930 00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:25,800 Yes, which this is not the first time this has happened on 931 00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,000 significant lovers. It happened. 932 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:32,600 We covered Hunter Biden getting with his brother's widow, his 933 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:37,440 sister-in-law, Hallie Biden. And we also talked about, though 934 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:42,080 we didn't cover this couple, Elizabeth Taylor getting with 935 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,840 what's the guy's name? Oh, yeah, Eddie Fisher. 936 00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,320 Oh, getting with Eddie Fisher best. 937 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,640 Yeah, best friends with her husband that died. 938 00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:50,400 Yeah. Yes. 939 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,760 True, true, true. Yeah, we also didn't cover it 940 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:59,360 also, but Stevie Nicks got with her friend's widow also. 941 00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,200 But again, didn't really happen. It does happen. 942 00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,400 And I also asked on Patreon, would you ever engage in a 943 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,880 relationship with the widow of one of your late friends? 944 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,960 And 46% said no, never. And 50% said it very much 945 00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,200 defends. Only 4% said yeah, why not? 946 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,160 OK, yeah, I guess it's kind of. I love those guys. 947 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,280 It's weird to say yes if you're not. 948 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,680 Like if that hasn't happened to you yet, 'cause then it's like, 949 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,280 which friend are you looking at? Really? 950 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:38,080 Like if you died, I'm deaf and like going after your husband. 951 00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:43,400 It's like, weird to know. That I expect the honesty I 952 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,880 love. It I think the only instance 953 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:50,440 where you might be like yeah is if you earlier kind of have an 954 00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,720 attraction before your friend passes away. 955 00:52:55,000 --> 00:53:00,040 Yeah. Holy crap, it's weird to think 956 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,680 of that being like premeditated sad. 957 00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,320 Interesting question, Caitlin. Can you wait? 958 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:08,960 Can you repeat? Besides the people said yes, 959 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,320 what was the response? Most people said no. 960 00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:17,440 So the most response was it very much depends with 50%, but 46% 961 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,680 said no, never. Oh, so most people were on like 962 00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:26,160 it depends slash yes, true. Yeah, kind of like you never 963 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:27,880 know. I guess the question. 964 00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:29,440 We can group them together, yeah. 965 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:34,840 The question is more, if you happened to fall in love with 966 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:40,280 your friend's widow or widower, would it stop you that? 967 00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,120 Yeah. They used to be with your 968 00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,320 friend. Like would that prevent you from 969 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,160 getting together? And I guess a lot of these folks 970 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:52,440 are saying no, love is love. If you happen to fall in love, 971 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,680 like that's not a deal breaker for me that you used to be with 972 00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:57,440 my friend. Wow. 973 00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,280 It would be hard too, though. The ghost of your friend would 974 00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,960 always be there. Yeah. 975 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,760 And it might not turn out as romantic as you think. 976 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,400 He or she, like they could be missing your friend. 977 00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,920 And you might feel like you never really can match your 978 00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,920 friend, you know? And that would be kind of hard 979 00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,480 to deal with mentally. Yeah. 980 00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:26,400 I also would have a hard time thinking of that person as 981 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,280 anyone other than their spouse's spouse. 982 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:34,800 I guess like my friend's spouse, I would just even after their 983 00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,400 even after my friend died, I would have a hard time thinking 984 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:43,520 of them as anyone else you know. And I mean, it's happened on the 985 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:47,480 show, and it does seem like the grief can really profoundly bond 986 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:52,080 people in a way that brings them close and then turns romantic. 987 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,800 But I also think I would feel guilty thinking the only reason 988 00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,800 I'm with them is because my friend died. 989 00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:05,120 And I mean, it's sometimes it's nice like that, you know, from 990 00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:09,760 every rainstorm there's a rainbow that like something nice 991 00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,640 and happy can come from something so sad. 992 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,120 But I still think I would feel, I mean, nothing you can do to 993 00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:19,360 change it. But if my friend wouldn't hadn't 994 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,160 died, I wouldn't be with this person. 995 00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,440 Made a couple patrons who had opinions on the matter. 996 00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,680 Also, Heather said depends, death might end up bringing two 997 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,280 people together in a way not previously thought of or 998 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,080 explored, which definitely could. 999 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,280 Like, you never know, the world works in a mysterious way or 1000 00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:40,160 whatever. But. 1001 00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:44,600 So I guess Heather's kind of open to the idea, but probably 1002 00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,760 wouldn't. I don't know, like she's not 1003 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:53,040 going to hop on her friend's spouse now, but maybe if their 1004 00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:53,960 friend died. I don't. 1005 00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:58,800 Know. Sorry other, don't put that on 1006 00:55:58,800 --> 00:55:59,440 other. Anyway. 1007 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,280 Yeah, So anyway, Zoe commented. No, never. 1008 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,440 I don't think I could bring myself to be with my late 1009 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,760 friend's partner personally. Even if the friend gave consent 1010 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,800 prior to the passing, the ACT feels inherently selfish and 1011 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,960 borderline disrespectful. Am I being too harsh? 1012 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:18,520 No, I don't think you're being too harsh. 1013 00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:23,840 I I do think I would feel it would feel kind of wrong most of 1014 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,240 the time. It'd be hard not to think of 1015 00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:28,040 your friend. Yeah, even if, if, even if your 1016 00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:29,960 friend said it was OK or something. 1017 00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:31,400 Yeah, I know. Everybody's different. 1018 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,880 That's what. That would be crazy though if on 1019 00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:38,320 your friend's deathbed was like, you can get with my husband or 1020 00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:43,200 something. I know, I know people say like I 1021 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,520 want my, like they want you to be happy. 1022 00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:48,640 I bet that's what they want you to be, you know? 1023 00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,520 Like I just want my spouse to be happy after I die or whatnot. 1024 00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:57,040 But they can always be happy with a stranger anyway. 1025 00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,920 So Thelma commented absolutely not. 1026 00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:02,680 It'd be so disrespectful for the grieving process. 1027 00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:09,000 So very mixed opinions on here and Melanie commented Never Girl 1028 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,680 code extends past death. I do think it would be weird for 1029 00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,760 the living like friend group or family. 1030 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,000 They would kind of be like, what the hell? 1031 00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,760 Yeah, it would, yeah. Especially if there's kids 1032 00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,280 involved. I think it could make it more 1033 00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,640 painful. This happened on the show This 1034 00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:31,680 Is Us and everyone. A lot of the fans hated the 1035 00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:35,800 friend that Rebecca Pearson, the main character, gets with after 1036 00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,920 her husband passes away. But I actually am a strong 1037 00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:43,120 defender of Miguel. If you guys watch This Is Us, I 1038 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,280 think it happened very organically over a long period 1039 00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,800 of time. Their grief and their love for 1040 00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:53,480 Jack the character brought them together and eventually on the 1041 00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:59,320 show two people come to respect him as Rebecca's wife and the 1042 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,040 stepfather and all that. Yeah, because I'm, I'm kind of 1043 00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,160 mixed on it. Like I do kind of agree with 1044 00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,280 Heather, like death might bring two people together. 1045 00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,920 I do see the other side of it being kind of weird. 1046 00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:19,160 But I think also for kids, they might like more that the person 1047 00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:23,200 that their parent end up with is someone they know and like 1048 00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,960 already. Then maybe you can see stranger, 1049 00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,760 you know? So I think it, it just depends 1050 00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:30,080 this thing. But at the same time, it could 1051 00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,240 be like you're going behind so and so's back or something. 1052 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,080 It's very complicated. It's very complicated. 1053 00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,760 Kate, did you? This is a different scenario. 1054 00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,160 What I used to think, it's not friends, but when I was little, 1055 00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:45,200 I used to think that our Nana from our dad's side and our 1056 00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:47,720 grandpa and our mom's side. Should. 1057 00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:51,960 Get together. I think I used to think that too 1058 00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,320 because I was just like, they're both. 02 old people. 1059 00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,880 They're both single, like they're both widows. 1060 00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,480 Yeah. I thought it was going to happen 1061 00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:04,720 and. Especially since for some 1062 00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:10,720 reason, I bet because prior to my birth, my grandma on my mom's 1063 00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:13,000 side and my grandpa on my dad's side passed away. 1064 00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:19,120 But growing up in our kitchen, we just had a picture of my 1065 00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,600 grandfather on my mom's side and my grandma on my dad's side 1066 00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,280 together. And I think when I was a kid, I 1067 00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,880 actually thought they were a couple because they were the 1068 00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,760 only grandparents I knew and they, like, we had a picture of 1069 00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:32,560 them together. They were both your. 1070 00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:37,120 Godparents understood, yeah, they were my godparents, so I 1071 00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,200 just thought they were a couple. And then I think once I found 1072 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:40,520 that they weren't, I was like, why aren't? 1073 00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:45,240 Why aren't? They I know and they would like 1074 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:49,920 be at family parties together. And yeah, I just thought that 1075 00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:54,080 they would be together. So I can imagine little kids. 1076 00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:56,240 I don't know about a teenager. I'm sure a teenager would be 1077 00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:57,520 like what the fuck? But. 1078 00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,440 Yeah, but if you're a kid A. Little kid might actually like 1079 01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,400 it. Yeah, But kind of another 1080 01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,880 question which I didn't pose to the patrons, but I guess I'll 1081 01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:11,160 post to you guys because Melanie commented like Girl Code. 1082 01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:15,040 Do you think it changes things if it's a man getting with his 1083 01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:18,720 male friend's widow as opposed to a woman getting with her 1084 01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:23,480 female friend's widow? Or is it the same or is it 1085 01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:25,400 different? Like does it matter? 1086 01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:31,920 In my experience, and this is not true for everybody, but I do 1087 01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:36,320 feel like from the friends, the guy friends I've had over the 1088 01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:42,960 years, that bro code is not as strong as girl code a lot of the 1089 01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,200 times. And it might be because boys 1090 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,280 don't really talk about their feelings as much with each 1091 01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:50,520 other. And so I've seen it plenty of 1092 01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,600 times where a guy and his girlfriend will break up and 1093 01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:57,040 then later the guy, the guy's friend will get with that girl 1094 01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,200 and they never even discuss it. They never even get mad. 1095 01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,680 They just like don't talk about it. 1096 01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,280 But like they might bottle up their feelings and being like, 1097 01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,200 that's weird that my friend did that. 1098 01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:12,000 But they don't know that it's wrong because they don't like 1099 01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:16,840 talk about it with each other and like establish boundaries 1100 01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,360 and like expectations in their friendship the way girls do so. 1101 01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:24,920 And maybe not the case for everyone, but I feel like guys 1102 01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:26,880 just like assume each other don't care. 1103 01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:32,720 I'm not sure about wait, what would you even call this time 1104 01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:34,320 period? Ancient. 1105 01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:40,080 Ancient. I'm not sure about ancient Rome 1106 01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:45,800 and Egypt, what the bro code was like then, but I feel like As 1107 01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,400 for North America 21st century, I agree with Mel. 1108 01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:53,080 I know Charlie, my boyfriend has told this story to me before 1109 01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,640 about how like he has his friend who he's still friends with, but 1110 01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,280 he always says like, oh, did you know we got in a fight once 1111 01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:02,160 because one of them dated the other's ex. 1112 01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,520 I can't even remember who it was and it was like in middle school 1113 01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:06,000 or something. I think they like punched each 1114 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:06,960 other. Oh my God. 1115 01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:08,720 But then they But then they were all good. 1116 01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,760 Yeah, yeah, they don't. Like just. 1117 01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,000 Yeah. Surface level I don't know. 1118 01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,480 Yeah, they like guys will break up, go through a breakup and 1119 01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:23,600 their friends won't even ask them like, well, what happened? 1120 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:24,720 Like, do you want to talk about it? 1121 01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:25,760 Like I. Know they don't know. 1122 01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:29,200 Anything at all, it's nothing that's. 1123 01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,440 Crazy. They're just like, oh shit, man, 1124 01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:34,680 that sucks. Yeah, anyway. 1125 01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,480 Girls know every intricate detail like we go. 1126 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,120 Over it all, the. Details OK, let's start from the 1127 01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:42,000 beginning. Blah blah blah. 1128 01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:46,320 Yeah. And then we start again, harder. 1129 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,560 For a girl to get with her friend's widow because you 1130 01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:52,800 probably know all the details of their relationship. 1131 01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,280 Already. To it, but with like a man with 1132 01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,600 his male friend's widow, you probably know nothing about that 1133 01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,160 relationship, so you kind of go in with a fresh slate. 1134 01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:04,200 That's true. She's like basically a stranger 1135 01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,440 to you. Weren't Marc Anthony and 1136 01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:08,800 Cleopatra married? Yeah, wasn't he? 1137 01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:09,880 I Who? Marc. 1138 01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,520 Anthony when they got together. Doesn't he have a wife? 1139 01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,240 Well, he has a wife, yeah. Cleopatra Single though. 1140 01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:19,320 Oh, oh, OK. What happened to Ptolemy? 1141 01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,840 Her second brother, he's dead at this point in time. 1142 01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,600 OK, She had him killed. Nice. 1143 01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:29,960 Oh nice. Nice, nice. 1144 01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:33,040 All right. Well, kind of. 1145 01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:37,680 Speaking of actually killing siblings, Cleopatra had to cut 1146 01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:40,920 their burgeoning romance short, leaving after only a few weeks 1147 01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:44,240 in Turkey with Mark to turn back to her throne in Egypt. 1148 01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:46,960 She was facing many threats against her reign while she's 1149 01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:50,760 away, most notably from her sister and nephew, who both 1150 01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:52,480 claimed to be the rightful rulers. 1151 01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,040 But with Mark's help, Cleopatra didn't face those threats for 1152 01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:59,320 long, because soon after their My time in Turkey, Mark had 1153 01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,960 Cleopatra's sister and nephew executed. 1154 01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:06,120 And many people suspect Mark did this at Cleopatra's behest. 1155 01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:08,080 But she is she. OK with that. 1156 01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,400 Definitely. She was definitely OK with that. 1157 01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:13,640 I mean, she killed her other brother. 1158 01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:15,520 Yeah. So she had her sister and her 1159 01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,120 nephew killed. Harsh. 1160 01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,400 Different time. I think at this point in time, 1161 01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,680 like literally all of her siblings were dead. 1162 01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:26,440 Oh. My gosh. 1163 01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,600 And most because she wanted them dead. 1164 01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:33,880 But anyway, she needs Jesus in the fall. 1165 01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:41,120 Jesus isn't alive yet. But anyway in the fall, 41 BC, 1166 01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:43,720 41 years before Jesus would be born. 1167 01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:49,000 Not to get too religious on Maine, but anyway, a couple 1168 01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:54,000 months after Turkey, Cleopatra invited Mark to Egypt and he 1169 01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:55,760 went. And many historians suspect that 1170 01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:59,640 he went there not wholly for Cleopatra, but also for politics 1171 01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:02,880 and business purposes. But Mark actually did not travel 1172 01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:06,600 with a military escort, nor the Insignia of auspice. 1173 01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,040 He apparently adopted the dress and way of life of an ordinary 1174 01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:11,960 person. So essentially, he was just 1175 01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:16,120 there to be with Cleopatra and be a Taurus with no seemingly 1176 01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:19,080 official motive behind it, no strings attached. 1177 01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:23,040 And during his time in Alexandria, Mark and Cleopatra 1178 01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:28,240 started a drinking club called the Intimidable Livers and threw 1179 01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:30,960 numerous banquets and parties together. 1180 01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:33,040 Wow, yeah, sounds. They were also said. 1181 01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:36,200 No, they knew back then that the liver processed alcohol. 1182 01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,640 I know. I think the Egyptians figured it 1183 01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:40,720 out first, but correct me if I'm wrong. 1184 01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:42,480 How did they even know? Like what? 1185 01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:44,240 The organs I guess they get when you die. 1186 01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:47,640 Maybe they do an autopsy. Yeah, because they were doing 1187 01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:50,080 like mummification and stuff. And they would. 1188 01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:52,800 Take him. Body parts and stuff. 1189 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:57,800 Anyway, not Speaking of body parts, Mark and Cleopatra were 1190 01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:00,960 said to be inseparable, spending all their time together. 1191 01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:05,840 Wherever he went, she followed, and vice versa, Pletark wrote. 1192 01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:08,600 She played dice with him, she drank with him, haunted with 1193 01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:11,120 him, and watched him as he exercised in arms. 1194 01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,880 And at night, when he would station himself with the common 1195 01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:17,000 folk, she would go with him on his rounds of mad Follies, 1196 01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,040 wearing the garb of a servant maiden. 1197 01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:22,800 Interesting. And while he was with Cleopatra, 1198 01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:26,080 yeah, it kind of reminds me of Aladdin in a way. 1199 01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:28,560 Oh yeah. I don't know, it's a little 1200 01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:30,400 cute. Anyway, while he was with 1201 01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:33,520 Cleopatra in Egypt, Mark turned his back on Rome and didn't 1202 01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:36,560 meddle much with politics. He didn't really care about any 1203 01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:39,360 of it so long as he remained on Augustus's good side. 1204 01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:43,720 And little did he know, his wife Folvia and his brother, Mark's 1205 01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:47,400 brother had incited a war against Augustus. 1206 01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,720 And we're trying to lure Mark away from Alexandria to come 1207 01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:53,440 help him. But when Mark found out, instead 1208 01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:56,080 of dropping everything to help them, he was furious. 1209 01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,360 Not only had they dragged him away from Cleopatra because he 1210 01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:02,000 did have to leave Cleopatra behind to go talk with them in 1211 01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,120 Greece, but they were challenging his already rocky 1212 01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:08,360 alliance he had with Augustus. So he left without saying 1213 01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:10,440 goodbye and without joining their cause. 1214 01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:14,680 And shortly after that, in early 40 BC, Fulvia passed away due to 1215 01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:18,080 illness or maybe suicide, historians don't really know. 1216 01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:24,240 But she and Mark never got to talk to each other ever again. 1217 01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:27,440 Like that was the last time Fulvia and Mark saw one another. 1218 01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:32,120 Wow. And Mark felt very guilty and 1219 01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:35,200 blamed himself for it. He also felt guilty for using 1220 01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:39,440 her and her death as a scapegoat to Augustus because to quell 1221 01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:44,480 Caesar's adopted son, Mark told him that Fovea only started the 1222 01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:47,920 war out of jealousy and wanting Mark away from Clay Patra. 1223 01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:51,400 Yeah so to get on my guess this is good side. 1224 01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:55,680 He was like it wasn't that serious, it was just jealousy. 1225 01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:59,000 Don't take what she did as anything against me. 1226 01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:01,080 I had nothing to do with it lol. Well, you know. 1227 01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:05,680 And Augusta seemed to have bought the lie, but instead on 1228 01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,960 seemed to have bought the lie but insisted on solidifying his 1229 01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:13,680 and Mark's alliance even further so nothing of that sort would 1230 01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:15,760 happen again. And then Mark apparently wanted 1231 01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:19,000 to marry Cleopatra. He even referred to her already 1232 01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,760 as his wife. But Augustus didn't want that to 1233 01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,439 happen. He didn't want Cleopatra, who 1234 01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:28,720 was one of his nemesis and who had a lot of money, to partner 1235 01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:32,240 with Mark and give Mark more power and give Cleopatra more 1236 01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:34,279 power. Because yeah, Cleopatra and her 1237 01:08:34,279 --> 01:08:36,920 sons with Caesar were already a threat to a spot in Roman 1238 01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:40,720 society and would be even more of a threat with Mark on her 1239 01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,399 side. And so instead of Mark, Mary and 1240 01:08:43,399 --> 01:08:47,479 Cleopatra, Augustus offered his half sister Octavia up to Mark 1241 01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,200 as part of the truce. No. 1242 01:08:50,319 --> 01:08:56,200 This complicates it even more. And apparently the news did not 1243 01:08:56,200 --> 01:09:00,279 go over well in Alexandria for the people and for Cleopatra. 1244 01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:04,240 Not just because Cleopatra hated Augustus, but also because the 1245 01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:09,200 same month Mark and Octavia wed, which was December of 40 BC, 1246 01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,399 Cleopatra gave birth to twins. What? 1247 01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,640 His twins. Yeah, his twins, yes. 1248 01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:20,640 Oh my gosh. She survived. 1249 01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:24,840 That. I know she had a boy and a girl, 1250 01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:29,359 Alexander Hilos and Cleopatra Celine and both of which like I 1251 01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:34,040 said, were the children of Mark. And I should mention that Caesar 1252 01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:36,760 on Caesar's Kid was about 7 years old at the time. 1253 01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:41,120 OK, so she's a single mom. Yep, her baby daddy and. 1254 01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:44,880 You can't even like potentially say like, oh, it was her 1255 01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:47,160 husband's because she wasn't married so. 1256 01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:50,160 Yeah, gosh. And does he know? 1257 01:09:50,399 --> 01:09:52,040 Does he know that she was pregnant? 1258 01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:54,360 I mean, how do you hide that she's part of a twin? 1259 01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:58,120 Yeah, he knew and he wanted to marry her, but he was kind of 1260 01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:03,160 had his hands tied and had to marry Augustus's sister instead. 1261 01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:05,240 But. Couldn't he just say fuck off to 1262 01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:07,360 Augustus? Because Augustus wouldn't have 1263 01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:10,240 liked that. And he'd have been like kicked 1264 01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:12,120 out of Rome or something. I don't know. 1265 01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:13,840 You'd have been like a pariah. I don't know. 1266 01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:15,800 I. Can't believe that you could 1267 01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:19,800 survive at that time period completely unmedicated with no 1268 01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,960 medical intervention whatsoever carrying twins and giving birth. 1269 01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,840 That's crazy, I know. And like the the babies usually 1270 01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:30,640 like twins are born premature, that the babies don't even need 1271 01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:32,800 any medical intervention, that they serve well. 1272 01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:34,480 Did they survive? Yeah, they did. 1273 01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:37,800 Wow, that's incredible. I know it's actually very 1274 01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:39,960 fortunate. But on the flip side, 1275 01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:44,120 unfortunately for Mark, he was unable to meet his newborns as 1276 01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:46,880 he was made to stay in Rome with his new wife. 1277 01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,000 Apparently, they were both paraded around the country like 1278 01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,200 celebrities. They were marketed as a sign of 1279 01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,400 hope and peace for the Roman people, kind of like a royal 1280 01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:58,400 wedding today, like something to distract the common people, 1281 01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:00,880 placate them, give them something to be happy and 1282 01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:04,680 excited about and not cool. Yeah. 1283 01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:09,680 Anyway, in 39 or 38 BC, Octavia gave birth to her and Mark's 1284 01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:14,800 first child, a daughter. So he was with Octavia at this 1285 01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:19,000 time, even though he did have kids with Cleopatra off in 1286 01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:23,240 Egypt. So he's a lot of kids kind of 1287 01:11:23,440 --> 01:11:25,640 giving Jude Law right now. He has. 1288 01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:31,120 I know for real because he has two from his previous marriage 1289 01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:36,800 and then he has 2 with Cleopatra and then he has one with Cle and 1290 01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:39,320 then he has one with Octavia and then he has another with 1291 01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,920 Octavia. In 36 BC his second daughter 1292 01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:45,240 both were named Athena or Antonia. 1293 01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:47,560 So that brings him up to six kids. 1294 01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:49,800 OK, so he didn't have any kids with his second wife. 1295 01:11:50,440 --> 01:11:51,800 Wait. No. 1296 01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:54,280 So his first wife, he had one. So he had seven. 1297 01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:58,480 He had one with his first wife, 2 with his second wife, 2 with 1298 01:11:58,480 --> 01:12:01,040 Cleopatra and then two with Octavia. 1299 01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:04,640 Oh my God, Seven kids, four different women right now. 1300 01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:12,160 This is getting to be a lot. He also there was no basis to it 1301 01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:14,080 so didn't include it. Some people thought he had 1302 01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:18,840 another wife before his first wife and had kids with her but 1303 01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:22,000 there was no evidence to suggest it so I didn't include it. 1304 01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:27,120 And people also said that maybe he also had bastards also, so he 1305 01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:29,680 might have had a bunch of other kids. 1306 01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:32,920 Oh my gosh. So there's like potentially a 1307 01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:37,840 lot of people who are descendant from Mark Anthony probably out 1308 01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:39,320 here. Yeah, probably, yeah. 1309 01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,360 Apparently, even though he was married to Octavia, Mark and 1310 01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:45,480 Augustus did not get along at all. 1311 01:12:45,480 --> 01:12:50,480 I think in part because Mark was forced to marry a Octavia and 1312 01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:53,600 they would regularly need Octavia as a peacemaker between 1313 01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:56,680 them. However, try as you might, by 37 1314 01:12:56,680 --> 01:13:00,440 BC Mark had reached his final straw with Augustus, the straw 1315 01:13:00,440 --> 01:13:04,680 that broke the camel's back. And so Mark wrote to Cleopatra 1316 01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:08,760 telling her to meet him in Greece, and she did so at once. 1317 01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:13,000 And this was the first time that they had seen one another in 3 1318 01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:18,160 1/2 years since Mark left to put down Fulvia's war all those 1319 01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:20,520 years ago. And this was also the first time 1320 01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:25,040 Mark had met his children, now almost three years old, and both 1321 01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:28,520 of which, thankfully, Mark claimed as his own, which was 1322 01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:31,160 something Caesar had never done with his own child. 1323 01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:35,320 That's nice. And soon after reuniting in 1324 01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:40,920 Greece, Mark and Cleopatra wed, as many historians suspect, and 1325 01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:44,080 coins began circulating with joint portraits of the two 1326 01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:47,040 signifying their union. So do people not have to get 1327 01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:50,200 divorced back then? They did, but I think they just 1328 01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:52,760 like had a ceremony saying that they were married. 1329 01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:57,360 And so. As for Octavia, Mark's other 1330 01:13:57,360 --> 01:14:01,960 wife, when he left to be with Cleopatra in 37 Basie, that was 1331 01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:04,480 the last time he ever saw her. He would never see her again. 1332 01:14:04,480 --> 01:14:07,960 Wow. And not their kids either. 1333 01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:13,800 He did, I think, see their kids, but less so than he did his 1334 01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:15,480 other kids. Yeah, wow. 1335 01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:20,280 Yeah, so poor Octavia, I guess. But now Mark and Cleopatra we're 1336 01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:23,280 back together and most likely married. 1337 01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:27,280 And Mark gifted Cleopatra the island of Cyprus, as well as 1338 01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:32,240 parts of Libya, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey and Crete. 1339 01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:37,400 And by the end of 37 BC, she ruled most of the entire eastern 1340 01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:40,760 Mediterranean coast. But that's not all Mark gave 1341 01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:43,440 her. In August or September of 36 BC, 1342 01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:47,600 Cleopatra gave birth to their third child, a son named Ptolemy 1343 01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,160 Philadelphius. Wow, it's interesting she used 1344 01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:54,240 that name. I know like another Ptolemy. 1345 01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:58,160 Technically her eldest son is also called Ptolemy, although 1346 01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:01,080 everyone calls him caesarean. SO2 Ptolemies. 1347 01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,880 Wow. And once again, Mark was not 1348 01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:06,960 there for the birth again, as he was off on a military campaign 1349 01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:11,360 against the Parthian Empire. Cleopatra had actually gone with 1350 01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:14,440 him initially, but when she was close to giving birth, Mark sent 1351 01:15:14,440 --> 01:15:17,280 her back to Egypt to deliver their child there because he was 1352 01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:21,320 like, no, war zone is the place for you to give birth. 1353 01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:23,320 So, yeah, OK. So now he. 1354 01:15:23,440 --> 01:15:25,880 Is even though they wanted. Yeah. 1355 01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:29,720 Yeah, because even though they want to spend all their time 1356 01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:32,600 together, he was like, I have to be a military leader and you go 1357 01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:35,680 back and give birth, OK. And a couple months after giving 1358 01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,600 birth, however, Mark did send for her again, and apparently 1359 01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:41,480 would obsessively watch the shore awaiting her return. 1360 01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:45,000 He was far more concerned with that than anything else Putok 1361 01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:49,000 wrote, for so eager was he to spend the winter with her that 1362 01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,160 he began the war before the proper time and managed 1363 01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:55,160 everything confusedly. He was ever looking eagerly 1364 01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:57,960 toward towards her and thinking more of her speedy return than 1365 01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:00,880 of conquering the enemy. And at this time, while he was 1366 01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:04,080 off on his campaign, Octavia tried to come and see Mark. 1367 01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:07,440 She even sailed all the way to just do that, but Mark sent her 1368 01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:09,760 away without laying a single eye on her. 1369 01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,960 And so Octavia went back to Rome, a woman's board which then 1370 01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:16,360 her brother really did not appreciate. 1371 01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:21,520 That's sad. She sailed all this way. 1372 01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:23,360 Yeah. And he was like, I don't want to 1373 01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:27,320 see you. Yep, and Augustus, who is now 28 1374 01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:31,400 or 29 years old, began to vocally trash Mark's reputation 1375 01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:33,400 in Rome for what he did to Octavia. 1376 01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:36,840 He also. Runs to be that way, like he I. 1377 01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:39,600 Know he. Set his sister up for this in 1378 01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:42,880 the first place. I know he knew Mark wanted to 1379 01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:45,120 marry Cleopatra and be with Cleopatra. 1380 01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:47,960 You shouldn't have. Yeah, made them marry. 1381 01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:51,400 I guess he thought making them marry would keep Mark in line, 1382 01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:55,920 but Oh well. And so Augustus also had Lepidus 1383 01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:59,440 arrested the man who, if you remember, was the third part of 1384 01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:01,200 his and Mark's political alliance. 1385 01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:04,480 So now it basically was just Augustus and Mark. 1386 01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:07,040 There was no other person. They were the ones that were in 1387 01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:09,560 charge of Rome at this time. OK. 1388 01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:13,200 And because of Augustus, the people of Rome began to sour 1389 01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:16,880 against Mark, not just for the Octavia stuff, but also because 1390 01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:22,720 Mark went to war and won against the Armenian king after the king 1391 01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:25,800 declined a marriage alliance between one of the Armenian 1392 01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:29,720 princesses and Cleopatra and Mark's first son Alexander. 1393 01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:34,280 So after the king said, no, I'm not marrying my son, my daughter 1394 01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:37,040 to your son, Yeah, he started a war. 1395 01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:39,960 Yeah, he went to war with Armenia and the Armenian 1396 01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:42,600 comedian king and he gone. Yeah. 1397 01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:46,400 And he captured the king and his family and just like held them 1398 01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:48,360 as prisoner. And like and then. 1399 01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:50,080 Because. Because. 1400 01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,000 He said no. Marriage proposal that he said 1401 01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:54,320 no to? Yeah. 1402 01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:56,360 Yeah, it does seem a little dramatic. 1403 01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:00,400 I can see the common people, like we're not risking our lives 1404 01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:03,400 so that your son can marry an Armenian Princess. 1405 01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:05,120 Yeah. What? 1406 01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:09,360 They also just thought it was like a waste also because they 1407 01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:11,600 didn't really care about Cleopatra's and Mark's sons 1408 01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:14,600 because they love Mark and Octavia back in Rome. 1409 01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:18,000 They're like, who cares about Cleopatra and Mark and their 1410 01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:19,640 kids? That's not who we care about. 1411 01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:23,880 Like that's we don't like that, which also soured the opinion of 1412 01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:27,800 Mark. Mark and Cleopatra in 34 BC held 1413 01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:31,680 a ceremony in Alexandria where they sat side by side on Thrones 1414 01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:34,240 and declared themselves and their children including 1415 01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:38,000 Caesarean, new gods and goddesses and divided the empire 1416 01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,160 amongst one another. Cleopatra was also the given the 1417 01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:45,400 title Queen of Kings or Mother of Kings, and their children the 1418 01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:49,200 titles King of Kings. They're the new gods. 1419 01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:51,120 Yeah. What? 1420 01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:56,680 And so if people didn't like the crowning of Caesar, they really 1421 01:18:56,680 --> 01:19:00,280 didn't like them calling themselves gods and gosses and 1422 01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:02,400 kings and Queens, you know? Yeah. 1423 01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:06,240 So they did not like that. Stuff like this doesn't end well 1424 01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:08,440 for. Folks. 1425 01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:12,040 Nope, and historians also believe that if they weren't 1426 01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:16,400 married already, Mark and Cleopatra may have wed at this 1427 01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:21,400 ceremony or had like another wedding ceremony during this 1428 01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:24,760 party. Essentially Stacy Schiff, one of 1429 01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:29,440 the historians I talked about wrote As of the winter 35 BC it 1430 01:19:29,440 --> 01:19:34,000 was impossible to to deny a full blooded romance, if by romance 1431 01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:37,880 we mean a congenial, intimate past, a shared family, shared 1432 01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:40,120 bed, and a shared vision of the future. 1433 01:19:40,440 --> 01:19:44,640 December 28th, 34 BC, An inscription was made on a statue 1434 01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:49,600 of Mark and Alexandra that said intimidable lover, lover this 1435 01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:54,040 time not liver. And the definition of is so good 1436 01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:56,520 it's impossible to replicate or copy. 1437 01:19:56,640 --> 01:20:00,040 That's what it means. So he's like the very first 1438 01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:03,880 significant lover. Oh wow, you're right. 1439 01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:07,320 Do you think that she loved him more than Julius Caesar? 1440 01:20:07,440 --> 01:20:09,720 100%. I think she. 1441 01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:12,880 I think she liked Caesar and maybe was in love with him, but 1442 01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:15,920 she and Mark got to spend way more time together. 1443 01:20:16,160 --> 01:20:17,520 Yeah. Yeah. 1444 01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:23,320 And it seems like Mark is like it, more willing to be with her. 1445 01:20:24,440 --> 01:20:25,600 Yeah. Agreed. 1446 01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:29,400 Yeah, and intimidable lover it seemed he was. 1447 01:20:29,440 --> 01:20:33,840 Mark gifted Cleopatra all the books and scrolls in the library 1448 01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:36,880 of Purgemum so that she could replace those lost in the 1449 01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:39,520 burning of Alexandria 15 ish years prior. 1450 01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:43,040 He also sent her love notes and vice versa. 1451 01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:46,680 Hers were known to have been inscribed on Onyx and crystal 1452 01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:48,760 tablets. Wow, fancy. 1453 01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:52,280 Yeah, so he would be like in a meeting and then a messenger 1454 01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:55,920 would come with a crystal tablet with a love note on it, and 1455 01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:58,280 apparently he would read it to everybody else. 1456 01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:03,240 Oh wow, do we know what those said or no? 1457 01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:07,640 No, unfortunately not done. I know and. 1458 01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:09,440 That's so cool if it still existed. 1459 01:21:09,440 --> 01:21:13,920 I know, unfortunately, like nothing that Cleopatra wrote 1460 01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:17,760 still exists. Wow, that's a shame. 1461 01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:23,240 But anyway, Mark spent most of 34 to 32 BC in Alexandria with 1462 01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:26,560 Cleopatra and the kids he seemed to have most. 1463 01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:31,680 He seemed to have lost most of his political ambition during 1464 01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:35,080 this time, preferring to be a husband and a father above all 1465 01:21:35,080 --> 01:21:38,520 else, and even wrote to Augustus that he would forfeit his 1466 01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:42,240 position and powers so long as Augustus established a Republic 1467 01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:44,720 in Rome. But Augustus declined, and 1468 01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:47,920 instead delivered a speech against Mark and Cleopatra 1469 01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:51,840 before the Senate, and Mark then had no other choice but to 1470 01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:56,080 officially renounce Augustus. And then he then now officially 1471 01:21:56,080 --> 01:22:00,640 divorced Octavia and claimed Cesarean as the rightful heir to 1472 01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:04,280 Caesar, and the latter of which being a sentiment he repeated in 1473 01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:08,520 his will, which was then subsequently stolen by Augustus. 1474 01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:11,200 I don't know how Augustus stole his will, but he did. 1475 01:22:11,480 --> 01:22:14,720 And also in Mark's will was the stipulation that he should be 1476 01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:18,880 buried alongside Cleopatra in Egypt instead of Rome, and that 1477 01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:22,840 Alexandra would be made the new capital of the Roman Republic. 1478 01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:25,800 OK. And Mark's will was the smoking 1479 01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:28,960 gun Augustus needed to declare war on Cleopatra. 1480 01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:32,000 And he did. In 31 BC, it was announced that 1481 01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:34,320 Rome and Egypt were officially at war. 1482 01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:40,280 Oh this is a stupid question, but how are Augustus and 1483 01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:43,280 Cleopatra connected to? They were connected through 1484 01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:44,440 Caesar. What's their? 1485 01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:49,240 Relationship Augustus is Caesar's grandnephew who adopted 1486 01:22:49,240 --> 01:22:53,040 and made us his heir. And Cleopatra was with Caesar 1487 01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:58,560 obviously and had a child by Caesar and she wanted her son to 1488 01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:02,200 be Caesar's heir. But August, Arian, yes it's 1489 01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:04,600 Arian. And Augustus was like no, I'm 1490 01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:07,320 the heir. So Cleopatra and Augustus have 1491 01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:10,600 been fighting basically since ever since. 1492 01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:12,880 OK. Because of that. 1493 01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:15,600 But he's not really like her former stepson. 1494 01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:18,120 Like it was not. No, they didn't know any other. 1495 01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:23,160 OK, Yeah, No, they didn't know each other until the Caesar's 1496 01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:25,000 will was read. And then I was like. 1497 01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:28,440 Oh, so that's so annoying. Like, who are you? 1498 01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:30,120 Yeah. Exactly. 1499 01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:33,080 That's why Mark's like, who's this boy who's just going to 1500 01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:36,160 take over Rome? Sorry Caesar, but why did you do 1501 01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:39,880 this? Yeah, he complicated stuff. 1502 01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:44,720 All right, let's let's take a break and we'll be back in a 1503 01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:48,080 minute. Insert add I'll be right back. 1504 01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:52,880 We're. Back So Mark and Cleopatra went 1505 01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:56,280 to Greece to set up their headquarters and Mark tried to 1506 01:23:56,280 --> 01:24:00,360 send Cleopatra away saying that she should wait out the war 1507 01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:04,680 safely in Egypt, but Cleopatra refused and remains by his side. 1508 01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:08,480 And I'm not going to go into too many details, but Cleopatra and 1509 01:24:08,480 --> 01:24:12,120 Mark began to lose many battles against Augustus, as well as 1510 01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:16,280 allies and supporters. And eventually Augustus occupied 1511 01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:19,160 Greece and the couple were forced to flee back to Egypt. 1512 01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:22,640 And Cleopatra seemed to think at this time that the war was not 1513 01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:25,800 going to go in their way. So she sent a letter to Augustus 1514 01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:28,960 requesting that at the war's end, her children would inherit 1515 01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:32,400 Egypt, and that Mark would be allowed to live in exile with 1516 01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:35,560 her and the children. Augustus essentially denied 1517 01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:38,760 Cleopatra's request, sending a messenger to tell her that the 1518 01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:42,560 only way he'd accept the deal was if she killed Mark and 1519 01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:46,480 Cleopatra, and Mark then sent the messenger's head back to 1520 01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:49,560 Augustus saying no deal. OK, good. 1521 01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:52,840 Oh my gosh. Would you, whoever your 1522 01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:54,680 significant other friend? Just kidding. 1523 01:24:56,320 --> 01:24:58,400 Yeah, that could be in the poll question, would you? 1524 01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:03,520 Kill your significant other. To save yourself and your 1525 01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:05,440 children. For professional gain. 1526 01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:12,480 Yeah, it depends. Yeah, 4% said yeah, why not? 1527 01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:20,400 10% maybe? It depends. 1528 01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:23,800 Oh my God. Well, even though they said no 1529 01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:28,000 deal, Mark did reach out to Augusta saying that he would 1530 01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:30,800 kill himself. Mark, Mark would kill himself so 1531 01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:34,280 long as Augustus promised Cleopatra would be spared. 1532 01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:39,200 But Augustus never responded. Trust someone's word after 1533 01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:41,320 you're dead. I know. 1534 01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:44,000 I know just like Survivor. What? 1535 01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:47,240 The heck it is. If you can. 1536 01:25:47,480 --> 01:25:51,520 If you can. Yeah, this is just like 1537 01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:53,520 Survivor. I can. 1538 01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:56,960 Anyway, desperate and with Augustus's fleet advancing 1539 01:25:56,960 --> 01:26:01,080 towards Egypt, Cleopatra sent her son Cesarean to India, 1540 01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:03,840 thinking that it would be better if he were far away. 1541 01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:06,840 She knew that she would most likely not be allowed to be the 1542 01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:11,760 Egyptian queen anymore once Augustus game, you know, And she 1543 01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:15,320 wanted him alive to succeed her. And also she believed that 1544 01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:17,240 Augustus were to capture Cesarean. 1545 01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:20,960 He would no doubt kill him. Yeah. 1546 01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:25,480 And on August 1st, 30 BC, Augustus invaded Egypt, and 1547 01:26:25,480 --> 01:26:28,480 Mark's Navy and Calvary quickly surrendered. 1548 01:26:28,480 --> 01:26:34,160 They were just completely outmatched by Augustus's forces. 1549 01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:38,840 And upon his victory, Cleopatra fled to her tomb for safety. 1550 01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:42,080 And for some reason, Mark thought she killed herself. 1551 01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:45,800 Some historians believe she sent him a letter saying that she 1552 01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:48,120 did, although I don't know how that works. 1553 01:26:48,240 --> 01:26:51,560 Him receiving a letter from her saying that she killed herself, 1554 01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:54,400 I don't know. But either way, thinking she was 1555 01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:59,000 dead and with no other means of escaping, Augustus, Mark stabbed 1556 01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:01,960 himself in the stomach. Wait, this is like Romeo and 1557 01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:05,480 Juliet? I know, just spoiler. 1558 01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:10,760 Anyway, thankfully he was found by his friends before his wound 1559 01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:14,080 would prove fatal and he was brought to where Cleopatra was 1560 01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:17,720 hiding in her tomb. However, he's succumbed shortly 1561 01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:20,280 after to his injuries and died in her arm. 1562 01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,760 No, this is. Tragic. 1563 01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:25,240 Oh my. God, I know. 1564 01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:27,680 Well, I think he really loved her though. 1565 01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:29,760 That's like. I think so. 1566 01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:33,720 Very romantic. 100%. So he wasn't going to brothels 1567 01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:36,680 and everything like he seems like he was like no dedicated. 1568 01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:39,680 To her, at this point in time, he was very loyal to her. 1569 01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:40,920 And. Her only he. 1570 01:27:41,040 --> 01:27:43,880 Basically killed himself for her. 1571 01:27:45,160 --> 01:27:47,040 Oh, very. You know who It also reminds me 1572 01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:48,160 of? Edward. 1573 01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:52,240 Reminds me of Edward. Jerry, Edward. 1574 01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:56,320 I wonder if Stephanie Meyer thought of that at all. 1575 01:27:56,560 --> 01:27:59,640 Maybe. I think maybe she was inspired 1576 01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:03,160 by Romeo and Juliet, which is inspired by this. 1577 01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:04,920 Oh true. Yeah, because there is like the 1578 01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:07,960 Italy part aspect of it as well. Yeah, Oh. 1579 01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:12,480 Yeah, yeah, they talk about Romeo and Juliet in the moon. 1580 01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:18,720 Duh. Well anyway Cleopatra apparently 1581 01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:23,200 grabbed Marks knife and tried to follow him and take her own life 1582 01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:27,320 but was captured by Augustus before she could and Cleopatra's 1583 01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:30,960 children non cluing caesarean were also captured alongside 1584 01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:32,120 her. No. 1585 01:28:32,360 --> 01:28:36,360 Yeah, and Augustus plan to keep Cleopatra alive, wishing to show 1586 01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:39,040 her off as a prisoner of war to the Roman public. 1587 01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:42,680 However, Cleopatra was against the idea, obviously. 1588 01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:47,040 Supposedly she begged Augustus and said grudge me not burial 1589 01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:51,240 with him in order that as it is because of him I die so I may 1590 01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:54,720 dwell with him ever in Hades. It's basically like, let me die. 1591 01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:57,360 I want to be with Mark, let me die. 1592 01:28:58,640 --> 01:29:01,680 And Augusta said no, and then was forced to thwart every 1593 01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:04,080 attempt Cleopatra made to kill herself afterward. 1594 01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:06,440 Apparently she tried multiple multiple times. 1595 01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:08,720 Gosh. He's so he had to thwart every 1596 01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:10,760 attempt, but unfortunately not the last. 1597 01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:15,640 On August 10th, 30 BC, Cleopatra escaped back to her tomb where 1598 01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:17,560 Mark was buried and poisoned herself. 1599 01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:19,720 Wow. Wow. 1600 01:29:20,160 --> 01:29:25,520 So very like Romeo and Juliet, except in Romeo and Jr. 1601 01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:29,720 Poisoned himself and she Juliet stabs herself. 1602 01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:33,400 Wow, it's tragic. What the heck? 1603 01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:35,720 I know it's very. Dumb. 1604 01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:39,320 They have their kids together. Awful for the kid. 1605 01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:42,080 Now you see why I said doomed. Yeah. 1606 01:29:42,920 --> 01:29:46,320 And that's basically the end of Mark and Cleopatra. 1607 01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:49,680 Thankfully, in accordance with Mark's will, Augustus did allow 1608 01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:53,000 for Mark and Cleopatra to be buried side by side in her tomb 1609 01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:56,320 in Alexandria. We know it's in Alexandra, but 1610 01:29:56,320 --> 01:29:59,560 we don't know where exactly. Even still to the state, we 1611 01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:02,920 don't know where their tomb is. Wow, no way. 1612 01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:06,320 Yeah, no one knows. People are still looking for it, 1613 01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:08,040 but we don't know where it is. How? 1614 01:30:08,040 --> 01:30:09,680 Could you? If you found it? 1615 01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:12,680 How could they figure it out that it's theirs? 1616 01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:15,680 Is that stupid question? Probably because of, yeah. 1617 01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:22,600 I mean, so when I was in Egypt, all the tombs had on the walls 1618 01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:27,040 basically the life story of the person that was buried there. 1619 01:30:27,400 --> 01:30:30,840 And since this tomb was made for Cleopatra, like, so when she 1620 01:30:30,840 --> 01:30:33,560 would inevitably go, she would go to that tomb. 1621 01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:38,000 So she probably would have had her life inscribed in on the 1622 01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:40,400 walls in the tomb. So they would probably know that 1623 01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:42,440 that was hers. But we don't know where it is. 1624 01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:45,960 That's so crazy that it exists somewhere and they can't find 1625 01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:49,320 it. Yeah, gosh, it could be like 1626 01:30:49,320 --> 01:30:53,560 underneath a building or something crazy. 1627 01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:59,000 Don't they have some statues like I in the British Museum or 1628 01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:02,520 places where they think that it is Cleopatra, but they're not 1629 01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:04,520 sure? I mean, not that it's like her 1630 01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:06,840 tomb, but. I was going to get into this in 1631 01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:12,360 a little bit, but because Augustus took over Egypt, he 1632 01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:17,720 annexed it. He had every statue of Cleopatra 1633 01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:20,600 and Mark both in Rome and in Egypt destroyed. 1634 01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:23,360 No. No, Yeah. 1635 01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:28,280 So that's why we really don't have too many, too much evidence 1636 01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:32,560 of what she looked like, because so much of it was destroyed. 1637 01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:35,280 Yeah, I. Hate that? 1638 01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:41,600 And all the treasure that was in Cleopatra's tomb with Mark was 1639 01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:47,280 also stolen by Augustus. Actually, all that goals and all 1640 01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:52,840 those gems actually went on to fund Rome for long afterwards. 1641 01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:55,000 Wow. Well, I guess that's nice. 1642 01:31:57,200 --> 01:31:59,320 It's not like doing much and it ended up. 1643 01:32:01,160 --> 01:32:03,240 Yeah, I. Ended up underneath Trinity 1644 01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:06,840 Church in New York City as part of the national graduate. 1645 01:32:08,480 --> 01:32:12,320 Maybe that's where Anthony and Cleopatra are. 1646 01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:18,000 I did watch a show once. I don't know how real it was. 1647 01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:22,120 It was kind of like a national treasure copycat essentially. 1648 01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:23,600 I think it only had like one or two. 1649 01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:25,400 Was it on like The History Channel? 1650 01:32:25,480 --> 01:32:29,640 Yeah, I think it was. But it had a case where they 1651 01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:33,960 think like the Nazis may be found Anthony and Cleopatra's 1652 01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:39,520 tomb, and they stole their sarcophaguses and bodies and 1653 01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:42,680 stuff, and now no one knows where it is now because of that, 1654 01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:44,520 I don't know. But what kind of the part of 1655 01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:47,400 Indiana Jones? A little bit, I think so. 1656 01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:49,480 Crazy. Yeah, because then they think 1657 01:32:49,480 --> 01:32:52,240 like, oh, the Nazis then hit it and then nobody knows where the 1658 01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:55,440 Nazis hit it, so. How would the Nazis have known 1659 01:32:55,440 --> 01:32:57,120 where it was? I don't know. 1660 01:32:57,120 --> 01:33:00,240 I guess because they were also in Egypt, so they were doing 1661 01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:01,480 shit there. I don't know. 1662 01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:05,160 Man, it would be cool to see something from, you know, 1663 01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:08,400 Cleopatra's time and. Mark Antony. 1664 01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:10,960 Wow. Well, there's probably a lot at 1665 01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:14,640 the Met and the British Museum. Probably. 1666 01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:17,720 Excuse me? A new appreciation for it, Kate. 1667 01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:20,000 Thank you. Well, there's more A little bit. 1668 01:33:20,240 --> 01:33:23,800 After his mother's death, Cesarean was lured back to 1669 01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:27,200 Alexandria under the pretense that he would be allowed to rule 1670 01:33:27,200 --> 01:33:29,840 Egypt freely under Augustus's command. 1671 01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:33,960 But when he was returned, he was captured and shortly after 1672 01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:37,200 executed, only 19 days after his mother. 1673 01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:40,000 Oh. Gosh, he should have just stayed 1674 01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:42,200 there. I know. 1675 01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:47,120 He really had the option. But yeah, I would not trust 1676 01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:50,080 Augustus at all. It is kind of like Survivor. 1677 01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:53,120 Yeah. Yeah, just like Survivor. 1678 01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:58,160 How can you trust him? He broke into lions already. 1679 01:33:58,160 --> 01:34:03,040 He's clearly not loyal well. As for Cesarean's siblings, they 1680 01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:05,640 were rounded up and sent to Italy, where they were then 1681 01:34:05,640 --> 01:34:09,280 paraded around the streets of Rome again as prisoners of war. 1682 01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:13,040 And afterward, Mark's son with Fulvia was executed. 1683 01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:16,760 I don't know why just him, but the rest were given to Octavia 1684 01:34:16,760 --> 01:34:19,280 to raise alongside their half siblings. 1685 01:34:19,560 --> 01:34:26,320 Oh wow, so that's kind of nice that Octavia raised Mark's kids 1686 01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:31,760 with Cleopatra. So Mark's lineage and 1687 01:34:31,760 --> 01:34:36,960 Cleopatra's lineage might still go on, but it would be through 1688 01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:42,160 like Roman society, so they might not even be aware of their 1689 01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:45,080 ties to Cleopatra. True. 1690 01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:49,600 Interesting. And then because Mark was dead, 1691 01:34:49,640 --> 01:34:54,920 Augustus became the sole power in Rome and in 27 BC he crowned 1692 01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:57,120 himself the first emperor of Rome. 1693 01:34:57,440 --> 01:35:00,400 Previously hit it had been a Republic like he said, and he 1694 01:35:00,400 --> 01:35:04,680 officially annexed Egypt into the Roman Empire, which ended 1695 01:35:04,840 --> 01:35:09,520 the Ptolemaic dynasty. So that dynasty also ended with 1696 01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:12,640 Cleopatra. Augustus. 1697 01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:16,440 Oh my gosh, I know. So that's how we're hungry. 1698 01:35:16,440 --> 01:35:18,040 Yeah. Roman Republic. 1699 01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:21,080 It's an empire now. It's the Roman Empire and 1700 01:35:21,080 --> 01:35:24,880 there's an emperor. And yeah, that's all because of 1701 01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:28,680 Mark and Cleopatra, essentially. And I guess Caesar, wow, he did 1702 01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:32,840 it. And yeah, so even though they 1703 01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:36,880 died and they were expunged from Egypt and Rome, like their 1704 01:35:36,880 --> 01:35:40,120 statues and their history, Cleopatra and Mark's legacy 1705 01:35:40,120 --> 01:35:42,560 continues to live on. Still to the stay. 1706 01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:45,520 They're remembered both accurately and not William 1707 01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:47,840 Shakespeare wrote a play about them titled Anthony and 1708 01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:53,520 Cleopatra, and we're doing a podcast about them in 2025 S 1709 01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:55,680 you. Have you read the play I I feel 1710 01:35:55,680 --> 01:35:56,640 like we've discussed? This. 1711 01:35:56,640 --> 01:35:59,200 No, I did not. I've never read it. 1712 01:35:59,480 --> 01:36:01,680 I probably should. It's actually funny because he 1713 01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:06,560 did the play after he wrote Romeo and Juliet, but I do think 1714 01:36:06,560 --> 01:36:10,680 he was very inspired by it even still when he wrote Romeo and 1715 01:36:10,680 --> 01:36:13,640 Juliet. Yeah, is and the movie that 1716 01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:19,120 Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton are in, that is the play. 1717 01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:22,000 I don't think so. I don't think they do the whole 1718 01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:23,960 Shakespeare thing. Oh, OK. 1719 01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:25,840 But yeah, that's. I wanna watch it. 1720 01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:29,960 Looking it up right now, it's adapted from a book. 1721 01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:32,760 But yeah, no, it's, I don't think it's based on Shakespeare. 1722 01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:35,120 Oh, OK. Very riveting. 1723 01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:36,840 Kate, thank you so much for all the. 1724 01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:38,360 Research you put into. This. 1725 01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:44,080 I wonder so much went into. It I wonder if anyone's learning 1726 01:36:44,080 --> 01:36:46,440 about this in school that's listening and if this was 1727 01:36:46,440 --> 01:36:48,760 helpful at all for your next test. 1728 01:36:49,200 --> 01:36:53,120 I hope so, yeah. It's a use this as a source I 1729 01:36:53,160 --> 01:36:54,400 suppose. Yeah. 1730 01:36:55,520 --> 01:37:00,120 Thanks, Kate. Yeah, I'm so impressed. 1731 01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:05,480 I know, I'm so glad I did it finally and it's done. 1732 01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:07,040 It's impressive, I. Know. 1733 01:37:07,560 --> 01:37:09,840 Well, you're hosting again next week. 1734 01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:12,280 Yes. What will that be about? 1735 01:37:12,280 --> 01:37:14,040 Do you want to tease it? Yes. 1736 01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:21,520 So the couple I'm covering next week is a very scandalous affair 1737 01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:25,240 that occurred in the 90s, nineteen 90s. 1738 01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:29,480 Damn. It's pretty different. 1739 01:37:30,280 --> 01:37:32,560 Yeah, very different. Cool, you can't wait for that. 1740 01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:35,080 That'll be that'll be on Patreon. 1741 01:37:35,320 --> 01:37:38,640 Yep, we'll see you guys there. And if you don't already, be 1742 01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:42,120 sure to follow us on Instagram at Significant Lovers. 1743 01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:46,880 We encourage our listeners to make guesses each week about who 1744 01:37:46,880 --> 01:37:50,240 the episode is about. So if you think you know who I'm 1745 01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:53,920 covering next week, make sure to let us know on Instagram. 1746 01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:59,000 I would not be able to get that guess that no my neither no. 1747 01:37:59,800 --> 01:38:04,080 Good, well anyway I hope you guys enjoyed the episode and we 1748 01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:06,320 will get back together next week. 1749 01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:21,320 Is your heart peeled with pain? Shall I come back again? 1750 01:38:21,720 --> 01:38:22,480 Tell me dear.