1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,040 Let's be honest, when you're building teams, leading through 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,760 change, or navigating workplace drama, the one thing you really 3 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:06,760 want at the end of the day is actually a good night's sleep. 4 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:08,280 And that's where Cozy Earth comes in. 5 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,280 Cozy Earth makes the softest, most breathable bedding I have 6 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,440 ever experienced. Seriously, it's like sleeping in 7 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,920 a five star hotel every night. Their sheets, made from premium 8 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,600 bamboo viscos, are temperature regulating and moisture wicking, 9 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,560 which means no more waking up sweaty, tangled, or tossing and 10 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,000 turning. And I run warm. 11 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,720 So I can tell you that I do not run warm in these sheets, thank 12 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,040 goodness, because that to me is like the mark of a good sheet 13 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,280 set. You really just have cool, cozy 14 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,640 comfort year round. And if you don't take my word 15 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,240 for it, by the way, take my mom's. 16 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,720 We just bought her the bamboo pajama set for Mother's Day and 17 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:43,680 she said that they're the best pajamas she owns. 18 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,440 I also own the pajama set, but like I said, if you don't take 19 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,240 my word for it, take my mom's. And as someone personally who's 20 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,080 always on the go, I really love that Cozy Earth is sustainable, 21 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,040 durable and machine washable. The quality is truly unmatched. 22 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:58,920 So go ahead, upgrade your summer. 23 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:04,000 Visit cozyearth.com and use code HUMAN HR for 40% off the best 24 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,600 selling sheets, loungewear and more. 25 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,120 Trust me, you'll feel the difference on night one. 26 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,320 Sleep cooler, lounge lighter. Stay cozy. 27 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,920 Welcome to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources 28 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,360 podcast. I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've 29 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,760 spent my entire professional career in HR. 30 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,400 Each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people 31 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,360 and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create 32 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,280 meaningful outcomes. Listen in as I share my own 33 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,120 experiences, challenge the status quo, and chat with guests 34 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,160 from various industries about our mission to bring the human 35 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,880 back to human resources. Hi everyone, Welcome back to the 36 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,960 bringing the human back to human resources podcast. 37 00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:41,880 Thank you so much for being here for another week. 38 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,320 Don't forget to write, review and subscribe wherever you're 39 00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:48,440 catching this episode. And by the way, this week is 40 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,760 very is allowing us to talk about a very similar 41 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,040 conversation that we've had more recently around AI and 42 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,880 recruiting and all of that. And it's really a very important 43 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,880 topic to jump into, which is why we're going to continue to look 44 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:07,600 at how AI impacts recruiting and where the human touch is so 45 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,880 important within the recruiting space and the process. 46 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,200 So in order to talk about that, I've brought on another esteemed 47 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,840 guest, Jen Han, who is the founder and CEO of J Recruiting 48 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,120 Services, a boutique recruiting firm that partners with leading 49 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,680 retail brands across the US to deliver top tier talent. 50 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,960 Jen is also the host of a brand new podcast, Cast Candid with 51 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,360 Candidates, which is now available on all podcast 52 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:31,880 streaming platforms, so catch it. 53 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,800 Jen's professional journey began as a district manager for a top 54 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,280 ten global retailer, where she successfully LED operations 55 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,120 teams for five years. She later transitioned into 56 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,960 sales leadership roles before finding her true calling in 57 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,160 recruiting. And it didn't take long for Jen 58 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,560 to realize she had discovered her zone of genius. 59 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,600 In 2017, Jen founded Jay Recruiting Services to serve the 60 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,840 industry she knows and loves, retail. 61 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,000 A self-proclaimed retail nerd, which I totally subscribed to as 62 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,440 well, She created the firm to deliver tailored recruiting 63 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,040 solutions that align with her clients unique needs. 64 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,200 So today as CEO, Jen leads her team in placing top talent and 65 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,680 roles across store operations, warehouse leadership, and 66 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,040 executive positions for major retail brands across the nation. 67 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,560 Her team's mission is clear, deliver exceptional results that 68 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,640 encourage both clients and candidates to expect more from 69 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:24,600 external recruiters. Jen's commitment to empowering 70 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,000 others and connecting great people to great opportunities is 71 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,640 at the heart of everything she does. 72 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,080 Jen, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Tracy. 73 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,640 I love listening into that. I'm like, wow, that's a lot of 74 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,960 things going on there. If someone asks me about myself, 75 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,720 it's hard to get it all into one quick bio, but I love it. 76 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:43,640 Thanks for having us. It is. 77 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:45,840 My gosh, of course. It's such a pleasure. 78 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,600 And for those of us who have had years of experience and retail, 79 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,280 it's one of those things that you kind of never leave, even if 80 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,040 you like leave the more operational side of things and 81 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,680 you're not in store, you are always kind of connected to it. 82 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,480 Even in my job today, like I'm still connected or adjacent to 83 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,880 retail. And so I can really appreciate 84 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:11,720 that that background of yours has catapulted you into this 85 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,240 career that you've created for yourself within recruiting. 86 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:15,320 So. Yeah. 87 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,640 I think you never see the shopping experience the same 88 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,680 whether you were in HR or operations. 89 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,160 And certainly if anyone that has ever had any role in store 90 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:30,200 operations in retail, there's just a little bit of a, there's 91 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,920 something about us, right? Yes, productivity and 92 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,360 efficiency, A different lens. I think that we see the world 93 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,520 through and we certainly stay connected. 94 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,600 We tend to find each other in groups for sure. 95 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,600 It's true it's true and I mean, to go back to how I started off 96 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,720 this podcast episode, I talked a little bit about AI and 97 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,520 recruiting in the human touch. This is something that I know is 98 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,880 important to you. We talked about this offline, 99 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:01,920 but when you think about the, you know, the advent of AI and 100 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:07,520 how it's become embedded in so many of our practices between HR 101 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,840 and recruiting, are there ways that you use AI that really 102 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:17,440 allow you to scale your business and improve your candidate's 103 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,040 experiences as well as your client's experiences while also 104 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,560 keeping the human element to what you do? 105 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,720 Yes, yes, definitely. I am. 106 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,560 And we are as an organization, a huge proponent of the technology 107 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,240 we can use to make our world a little bit easier. 108 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,200 And before I go into answering your question directly about how 109 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,920 we use AI today or where we find it really successful in the 110 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,080 recruiting process. I want to caveat with something 111 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,520 that I, I know you've probably talked about before, but to me, 112 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,520 the introduction of AI at such scale that we've seen over the 113 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:58,640 past, let's say 18 months, two years, the most important part 114 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:03,600 about that introduction of AI is having a strategic human paired 115 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,200 with it. So if it is a, I'm going to use 116 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,480 a recruiter as an example. If you have a recruiter that 117 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:14,200 doesn't truly understand the business, the mission, the open 118 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,840 role, the way that open role collaborates across the 119 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:20,680 business, if they don't understand more than simply the 120 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,000 job description, like, hey, I read that job description, I 121 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,840 think I get it. If they're not strategic in the 122 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:32,120 way they approach recruiting, then AI is probably not the 123 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,280 right tool for them, if that makes sense, right. 124 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:39,200 Because I think what happens with AI and with automation in 125 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,480 general is it's it's really exciting to all of us. 126 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,640 It seems like it could be a cost savings. 127 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,080 It seems like it could create a ton of efficiency. 128 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:52,280 And it can, but it does need to be operated and supervised by 129 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:57,080 the right strategic recruiter. And so my best advice to anyone 130 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,000 exploring AI is make sure you have the right people in the 131 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,840 seats that you feel really confident about. 132 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,760 And what's cool is when you think about an investment from a 133 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:12,040 business standpoint, you can have fewer recruiters, pay them 134 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,000 better, bring them in at a higher level and supplement with 135 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,440 AI. So that's my first caveat, 136 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,000 Tracy, something I'm just very passionate about and on our team 137 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,520 is so important to me. We hire our recruiters from the 138 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:31,440 industry, from operations roles. They have led teams before, 139 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,080 they've run P and LS before. And then we have our AI 140 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,160 solutions and an admin team that comes in to support them. 141 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,360 But I think it's our big differentiator is that strategic 142 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:46,080 human paired with the AI and the automation and the admin, if 143 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:47,640 that makes sense. It does. 144 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,160 I think it makes a lot of sense and it's really smart because 145 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,320 when you think about like a language driven AI tool like 146 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,560 Chachi PT for example, everything is based on the 147 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,480 prompt that you're inputting, like you're the answer. 148 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,760 The output that you get is fully dependent on how great of a 149 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:09,280 question you're asking it and how clear your question is. 150 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,840 And of course the some when we think about recruiting AI tools 151 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,480 to your point, when you have someone who potentially isn't 152 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:22,320 strategic or doesn't have the experience to necessarily think 153 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,720 through the strategy behind hiring, especially for 154 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:31,040 particular roles, then you run a similar risk where the output is 155 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,200 only as great as the input and you could be missing out on a 156 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:39,280 whole lot of productivity, a whole lot of excellent 157 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,480 candidates. And this is also a big kind of 158 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,000 caveat to AI tools is how they are established. 159 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:53,120 Because if you set up an AI tool to just run everything with no 160 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,720 human interaction, then you really are missing out. 161 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,320 And this is where we've seen, you know, concerns around 162 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:03,720 discrimination because of AI tools not having that human 163 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,480 who's looking out for those things. 164 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,760 And so I think your point is really well made. 165 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,280 Yeah, yeah. So where we use AI in our 166 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:16,320 process are the areas of the job description that are not the 167 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,160 best use of my strategic recruiters time, right. 168 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,040 So things like my strategic recruiter is doing the phone 169 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,800 interview and end up 30 minute phone interview, getting to the 170 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,200 the details of not just that person's resume, but their 171 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,840 leadership style and their ability to impact KPIs, things 172 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,160 like that, right. That takes a strategic human to 173 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,040 listen and respond and have that discernment of whether or not it 174 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,120 fits our client. But after that, if they took the 175 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,880 good notes and they were the intelligent human that did the 176 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,600 converse or had that conversation, when we're 177 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,280 creating an executive summary for our clients, we can take 178 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,040 those notes and say, please create an executive summary 179 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,760 using this structure. And it cuts my recruiters time 180 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,200 down in half at least, maybe even more than half in creating 181 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,840 that summary. But we also have a very strict 182 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,920 rule on we never copy paste send, right? 183 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:18,640 So in Rai platforms and it's, it's got to be the data has to 184 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,520 be protected, right? So in that platform we might 185 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,560 say, hey, here's my notes. Can you create an executive 186 00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:25,240 summary? But then we are always going 187 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,360 back through and saying like, Nope, that isn't true. 188 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,320 Like just because you read my note that way doesn't mean this 189 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,840 candidate actually said that. So there's like a, a second set 190 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,120 of eyes. But before, just like any human, 191 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,960 right, you've got a busy day, you've got back-to-back 192 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,440 interviews. Jumping in and doing those 193 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:45,280 executive summaries could have been a pretty daunting task and 194 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,840 having AI in place to help us get them moving and then just 195 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:54,960 having our recruiters edit from there, that is really helpful in 196 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:56,880 in quicker results for our clients. 197 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,120 We don't have to wait until tomorrow morning when we have a 198 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,400 break in our schedule to get that executive summary done. 199 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,840 We can kind of automate and move forward quicker there. 200 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,960 It's also really helpful in creating compelling messages, 201 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,640 right? So one of our big things is we 202 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,360 don't post and pray. We go out and we get in front of 203 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,040 candidates. If we did post and pray, we 204 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,200 wouldn't be successful because the clients we work with are 205 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,000 large enough that they're already doing that. 206 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,960 They're looking to us for something different. 207 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,800 So we really have to be, again, strategic. 208 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:27,520 And what is our compelling message? 209 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:32,200 If I'm reaching out to John, who is AVP of Operations in the 210 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,440 retails, I'm sorry, in the restaurant space and we want to 211 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,520 move them into retail or distribution or CPG. 212 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,840 What is our compelling message? What do we know is happening in 213 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,760 the restaurant space that we could bring up that we could 214 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:46,600 mention, hey, it's different over here. 215 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,840 But again, that takes a strategic recruiter, right? 216 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,040 Ask the right questions and then AI can help us. 217 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,120 They could say like here, here are some things you could pull 218 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:55,960 out. Here's an example of a message 219 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,280 and we can edit from there. So it's certainly saving US 220 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,960 time. It's helping us produce quicker 221 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,680 results for our clients, but it's not replacing at all. 222 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,680 Having the right recruiter in the right seat. 223 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,840 Right. And something that's really 224 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,880 important that you said is that it's, it's AI is doing the work 225 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,920 that you don't want your strategic recruiter spending 226 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:19,000 time on. Yes. 227 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,800 You don't want them really wasting their time on things 228 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,200 that pull their hours away from the strategic work. 229 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,520 That is so much more of an investment and time well spent. 230 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,080 And I think for any of our jobs, even when we think back to our 231 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,200 retail careers, it's like if we had a tool that could take some 232 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:42,600 of the mundane or maybe a more admin sides of things and manage 233 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,280 that for us. While we could focus our efforts 234 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,120 and attention on things that were more of an investment of 235 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:53,120 our time and and had more of an ROI for the business or 236 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,560 whomever. It just makes sense. 237 00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:00,120 So I think this is a really good tactical example of how to use 238 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,760 an embed AI into a process. And I'm sure that there are 239 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,160 listeners out there who are either in recruiting or have 240 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,360 thought about getting into recruiting potentially even as a 241 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,400 first step into HR, which is very common. 242 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,080 And I shared with I just did another recording. 243 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:22,680 The recording is going to come out after our episode, but this 244 00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:25,920 particular guest and I talked about how, you know, they're, I, 245 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,680 I tend to get a lot of messages from people who have a bit of 246 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:35,840 fear around AI replacing them in the workforce, especially on HR 247 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:40,280 admin sides of, of the business and recruiting coordinators and, 248 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,200 and maybe more junior level roles. 249 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,640 But I, I still think that when we think about all of the 250 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,840 feedback that you've just shared and all of the insight, there 251 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:54,160 are places where those jobs will benefit from having AI take 252 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,640 over. And yet there's still going to 253 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,840 be a need because of the importance of having the the 254 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:06,320 interaction from human to human. Of course, my advice to anyone 255 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,720 that has that fear over, oh, I would like to get into this, but 256 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,120 is AI going to take over? Is, is making sure you know your 257 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:18,800 job description and you know the ways that you can show up and 258 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,240 bring more, deliver more than a robot could, right? 259 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,360 That's how we should all be showing up to work, right. 260 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,040 So anyone that is already approaching it with a strategic 261 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,320 lens, or if you haven't been, but you're like, wow, I should 262 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,800 start thinking deeper. We call it ownership, right? 263 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,760 Do you have ownership over your work? 264 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,240 If you have ownership over your work, you're thinking much 265 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,440 deeper than AI can. Yeah. 266 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,880 The other thing I would really suggest is dive into it, 267 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:45,800 especially if you're younger in your career. 268 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:50,400 Dive in, become the expert on AI tools and how we can utilize 269 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,040 them to be more productive because that's going to put you 270 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,160 in a position of power in your career and, and a position of 271 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,480 strength and growing and saying, hey, here's where I think AI 272 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,160 could really help us. Here's how long term it could 273 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,360 benefit the business, the candidate and the team. 274 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,280 Because if you're taking away those mundane tasks, it does 275 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,960 help with the culture and the retention, right? 276 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,400 No recruiter that I've ever met really loves those little 277 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,000 mundane tasks. And like you said, we all have 278 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,080 them. But how, how are we all owning 279 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,960 our roles in a way that we're looking at that regularly? 280 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,800 Like, where could I spend my time better focused on moving 281 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,600 the needle for this organization? 282 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,760 And where could I delegate? But this delegation thing now is 283 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,960 not just for leaders, it's for anyone. 284 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,280 Executors also can be delegated because we're delegating to 285 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:46,720 systems and to AI tools, right? Rather than I think there's no 286 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,480 leader I've ever met that would sit down in a performance review 287 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,200 and be not be impressed if someone came to the table with, 288 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,440 hey, here's what I'm doing today, here's what I see we 289 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,120 could add tool wise, and here's how it would increase my 290 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,920 efficiency, right? They'd be like you're promoted. 291 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:03,480 They're like talking more about that. 292 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:04,280 Right. Exactly. 293 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,080 Yeah. Finally, I don't have to talk 294 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,880 about this with some. They're just telling me. 295 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,760 Yeah, it's true. And actually, it's kind of 296 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,520 inspired me to think of almost like a flipped perspective on 297 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:19,040 this too that maybe people can use as they advocate for 298 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:23,400 themselves in recruiting roles, which is that we know, first of 299 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,040 all, I help people with their resumes and LinkedIn. 300 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,920 This is like part of my business and I'm asked often, well, could 301 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,080 I just use ChatGPT for my resume? 302 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,600 Could I just use AI to create this? 303 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,800 And at the same, on the same token, we see people who are 304 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,600 their advertisements for this who are and like Tik Toks and 305 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,080 reels where people are using AI during interviews in an effort 306 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,320 to ace their interviews. And so I would say that the, the 307 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,200 way that people in recruiting can advocate for themselves is 308 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,360 to say, well, AI is not going to be able to identify when someone 309 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,400 has not actually gained that experience or that, you know, 310 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,319 it's this is all AI generated. Like it's a human that's going 311 00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:09,720 to be able to dig in and really use a strategic mind. 312 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,119 To your point, how the the person on the other side of this 313 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,520 process really thinks through strategically how to ask the 314 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,079 right questions and understand what someone's true experience 315 00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:24,599 is. And to kind of close the loop on 316 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:28,240 the whole, like can't Jaci to create my resume like no, 317 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,360 because is that even really your experience? 318 00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:34,880 You don't. To me, it's like very risky to 319 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:40,160 just totally delegate all of your experience and all of your 320 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,720 knowledge to a system that could be spitting out the same thing 321 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,800 for someone else with the same job title. 322 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:48,480 So I don't know if you have thoughts on that. 323 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,120 Yeah, I think it commoditizes you as an individual, right? 324 00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:55,600 Because if you're going to ChatGPT and saying build me a 325 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,920 resume, so is 90% of the population and maybe not today, 326 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:02,360 but as we transition and as different generations come 327 00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:04,960 through, right. But if you're the one that 328 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,200 showed up differently, that's going to get you that next round 329 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,400 of interview or that that position, because you can 330 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,360 actually speak passionately to what's sitting on that piece of 331 00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:17,840 paper that's going to stand out instead of yes, those are the 332 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,000 the things that ChatGPT pulled from my previous job 333 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,240 descriptions, right? So again, I think it could be a 334 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,880 tool like can ChatGPT give you a good structure or format? 335 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,800 Sure, of course it can. That can, it can give you a 336 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,200 format for anything. But if you want to stand out, 337 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,440 which is what we're all looking to do when we're applying for 338 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,080 roles, you can't show up like everyone else that asked Chachi 339 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,440 PT to write it. That's what we are noticing 340 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,080 right, is the individuals that show up with a different level 341 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,960 of energy and passion. They're the people who really 342 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,800 stand out. And you can tell if it's 343 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,880 regurgitated information or if it's a true story. 344 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,480 But but to your point, not a robot might not be able to tell 345 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,120 that, right? The human discernment, in my 346 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:07,200 opinion, is going to be incredibly important in the 347 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,840 recruiting of the future. Again, I think we can possibly 348 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,000 do more with less. We can hire top tier recruiters 349 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:20,560 and have 7 instead of having a team of 15 average recruiters. 350 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,400 So I do think it's because those seven can do so much more with 351 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,120 the tools we have at our disposal today. 352 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,840 So again, in any position I would suggest like make sure 353 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,280 you're showing up and standing out in the right ways and taking 354 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,080 full ownership. And I don't think their roles 355 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,640 are are at jeopardy of being replaced by a robot. 356 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,400 Yeah, totally. I agree. 357 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:47,120 And I, I, I do think that this, it's, it's really requiring the 358 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:51,760 human interaction as more and more people, I almost want to 359 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,400 say like civilians, but people like, on the outside of like 360 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,080 the, you know, like the, the back end, like the company 361 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,080 process. So like the, the candidates in 362 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,120 this situation, they, you know, they, they want to get the job. 363 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:07,320 They're going to use any tool that they can to get the job. 364 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,960 There's no harm in that. But I wonder. 365 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:15,120 If there are any guard rails that you have in place or that 366 00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:18,120 even your clients have in place in the event that they have 367 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:22,720 projects that they give to their candidates as a way to assess 368 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,440 their, their readiness. Like to prevent not maybe it's 369 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,840 not to prevent the use of AI tools, but to to ensure that 370 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,920 it's not all that and that there really is competence. 371 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,360 Yeah, a couple, a couple of things. 372 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:41,400 So there's the candidate, there's the interview itself, 373 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,320 right? Where again, the person leading 374 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,920 that interview should not just be running through a script. 375 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,080 They should be listening and digging deeper. 376 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:55,360 So if ChatGPT told them to say, I don't know, a specific answer 377 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,560 to a leadership question, and then you say, tell me more about 378 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,080 that, where did you get, you know, where'd you get that 379 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,160 information and who fixed it? And how did you see the gap? 380 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,640 The more and more you're asking, and this is a real time 381 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,680 conversation. I mean, ChatGPT isn't going to 382 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,600 keep up, right? So it's our job in the interview 383 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,080 process to dig deeper. Also, there's always that in 384 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,680 person interview, not always, I guess in remote environments, 385 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,280 maybe there is not. But in most cases with our 386 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,800 clients, we start with a phone, maybe they do a first round 387 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,640 virtual. But those in person interviews, 388 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,960 you got to show up as yourself. And I don't know of any glasses 389 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:34,480 yet, right, that are trickling secretly showing some ChatGPT 390 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,920 answers. But I think that's helpful in 391 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,040 the interview process. Now, to your point about 392 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:43,240 assessments or work samples, things like that, this is a 393 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:49,000 really interesting topic right now because some HR teams are 394 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,600 asking, they have assessments or written samples or things that 395 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,480 they're asking candidates for. And it's a big topic of, of 396 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,480 trying to figure out, do we want to allow them to use AI tools? 397 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:05,240 Because in the work environment we might allow them to use AI 398 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,320 tools. I don't have an answer to that 399 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,720 because I think it depends on your, your personal like our 400 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,800 clients, like their culture, their expectations. 401 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,960 I know we have one client that did in Excel like a it was a 402 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,960 highly analytical role and she made her own little assessment 403 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,680 and she actually logged on virtually. 404 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,600 It was only with a few top candidates, so she had the 405 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,080 capacity to do this, But she's logging on virtually and 406 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,040 watching them complete that assessment instead of saying, 407 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,000 Hey, you know, here's the spreadsheet. 408 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,440 Give me some analysis and some findings, right? 409 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,920 She's actually watching. And she said going into that, 410 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,720 she said, I don't care if they did a ton of work on YouTube and 411 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,960 Google and asked ChatGPT how to prepare for this. 412 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,800 That doesn't bother me because I would expect an employee to do 413 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,320 that right, to be resourceful. But I do want to know that 414 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,200 they're actually doing the work themselves and it isn't a friend 415 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,360 or a, you know, some, some type of technology doing it for them. 416 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:06,840 So I think there are a lot of different ways people are 417 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,480 exploring this. But again, if I'm a candidate 418 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,880 and I'm allowed to use AI, the way my answer and my result is 419 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,680 going to stand out is if I put my personal touch on it, I still 420 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:23,560 need to be using my strategic mind to change the way that 421 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,920 shows up. Copy paste is not going to get 422 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,520 you the job. Totally. 423 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,720 It's I'm glad that you kind of brought it full circle to the 424 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,000 standing out piece because I think that is definitely still 425 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,840 something that we can dig into. Because to your point, with all 426 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,640 of what you just shared, to kind of close the loop on that, it 427 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,840 makes sense to spend time observing when someone is 428 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,760 completing an assessment versus this, you know, just handing it 429 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:55,680 off if there is like a concern from the employer around how AI 430 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,560 tools are used, I suppose. But it is an interesting 431 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,280 question. Like if, you know, it's 432 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,840 something that we expect employees to use, then where is 433 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,880 the line for candidates? However, that said, I think 434 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,920 again in coming back to the standing out, when we think 435 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,440 about even just the listeners who may or may not be in 436 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,240 recruiting may or may not be like in their HR careers, like 437 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,360 fully established, they are also candidates sometimes. 438 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:27,560 And so they you know that I know that the market is quite tough 439 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,360 for our industries and they are probably also thinking of ways 440 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:37,280 that they can stand out as recruiters, as HR leaders and 441 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,320 you know how they they kind of propel their careers forward. 442 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,920 So one of the things that you said was allowing them their 443 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,800 personal touch to kind of come through. 444 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,680 What does that look like when you look at a resume and you 445 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,240 maybe you're looking at 2:00 and 1:00 stands out versus the 446 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:56,680 other? Are there certain things that 447 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,800 you generally see as being unique? 448 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,160 Yeah, I'll speak to resumes and then I'll speak to conversations 449 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,240 as well. I think they both work together 450 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,840 pretty nicely. But when it comes to a resume 451 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,720 and making it your own, I mean, I know some people love a photo 452 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,080 on a resume, some people hate a photo on a resume. 453 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,680 There's all of this. It's all subjective in that way. 454 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,320 Personally, and at and at Jay recruiting, what we're looking 455 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,960 for is someone that's clear about what they want next. 456 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,240 So a clear objective. I don't know if that's like gone 457 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,880 to the wayside or if that's cool to say anymore because I feel 458 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,840 like it's always been a thing. But at the top of that resume, 459 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,200 having a clear objective and making sure it sounds like you. 460 00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:42,560 So I do see a lot of those objectives that either a robot 461 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,320 wrote it or they've had the same one for 20 years or they just 462 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,400 asked like what's a good objective on a resume and they 463 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,080 put that down right. That objective should be very 464 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:53,920 clear. I'm looking for my next 465 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,000 opportunity in marketing. I thrive in an environment where 466 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,000 I can lead a team that needs to be held accountable, creating 467 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,320 systems for efficiency, whatever that might be. 468 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,880 Maybe, you know, you want to be in a certain industry, like 469 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,400 making that objective really clear because it's the first 470 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,520 thing on the resume. It's something we pay attention 471 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,160 to and I think it can be personality. 472 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,120 The rest of your resume, there might not be a ton of 473 00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:18,600 personality, but that objective there can. 474 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,640 And then the other thing that I, again, this might be old news, 475 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,520 but that I think so many people are missing on their resumes are 476 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,640 any type of KP is measurable data impact on the business. 477 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,880 So you in your example, you were talking about people from HR, 478 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,760 sometimes HRI would say, sometimes I would say 479 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,800 traditionally HR was not all about metrics. 480 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,000 They didn't measure as much as we do today inside of HR. 481 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,680 Even in recruiting when we talked to potential clients, 482 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,200 talking about metrics is something new, right? 483 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,560 You know, what's the response rate? 484 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,800 How long are they sitting and sent a client? 485 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,080 How did you improve that? Maybe there was a cost savings 486 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,160 because you implemented a new technology. 487 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:09,000 Numbers and specifics are so important on a resume because if 488 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,080 it's just a recap of what your job was, that doesn't matter as 489 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,040 much as how you showed up in that job, which I think is 490 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,520 really where the metrics and the specifics come into play. 491 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,800 And I would say the same for conversations. 492 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:27,080 Energy is huge we you would not believe Tracy or maybe you would 493 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:30,200 the amount of really really talented people talented in 494 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,440 their resume exactly what the client is looking for that gets 495 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,120 turned down because the client says you know perfect 496 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:40,120 experienced had good examples didn't feel any energy and I'm 497 00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:41,480 not sure if they're. Interested. 498 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,120 Interested. Yeah, it's like a long run 499 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:47,040 interview 3 show up with your energy. 500 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,680 And I don't know if it's nerves or if it's just we're turning 501 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:56,520 into robots, but you got to stand out by having that energy 502 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,680 and that passion. And then again, have it on your 503 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,920 resume, but be able to speak to specifics. 504 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,640 The amount of leaders that can't speak to specifics about the 505 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,600 last time they had to coach an employee or develop an employee. 506 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,400 And they're just like, well, I'm a servant leader. 507 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,120 So I talked to them and they're one-on-one. 508 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,560 That's not an answer I'm looking for. 509 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,120 What was the gap? How did you find the gap? 510 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:19,840 How did you work with that individual to get them over that 511 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,680 hump? Like those specifics are so 512 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,280 necessary because we need to be able to visualize them in this 513 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,040 new role and we can't if they say the same thing everyone else 514 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,520 is saying and there's there's nothing below surface level. 515 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,320 Yeah, absolutely. I think you've provided really 516 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:41,200 helpful advice when it comes to this ability to share what 517 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,960 impact you've had in your careers. 518 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:49,120 Like even without energy, well, obviously we know that you need 519 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,640 that. But if someone isn't able to 520 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,040 articulate what they've actually had an impact on, you're not 521 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,560 going to believe that they've done those things effectively 522 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,040 anyway, because how can you not? This is like something that I 523 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,080 talk about on the podcast a lot that to be a really successful 524 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,440 HR leader today, tomorrow in the future, you have to be able to 525 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,880 present your business and you have to have business acumen, 526 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,480 not only for the organization that you're in, but also the the 527 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:22,880 department and not having an eye on metrics and reporting and 528 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,160 actual measurability on the efforts that you've made. 529 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,440 Even if it's something qualitative like like I could 530 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,520 think about, you know, someone who runs onboarding sessions, 531 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,880 you can find a metric in that. How many people attend an 532 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,520 onboarding session every quarter, every month, every 533 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,640 year? How many people have it? 534 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,760 Like what is the measure or the impact on their experience 535 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,760 throughout their career from strong onboarding? 536 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,480 Like there's so much from every qualitative effort, there is a 537 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,720 quantitative measure. So I, I, I agree with you that 538 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,720 there is so much personability that comes from that and also 539 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,600 uniqueness because that also demonstrates someone's ability 540 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,800 to achieve in that future role that they're interviewing for. 541 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,320 And I think also just to kind of fully close the loop on your 542 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,680 resume advice to the objective. I don't think that that's old 543 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,600 news. Sometimes it shows up as like 544 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,640 an, an executive summary or whatever. 545 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,840 And I agree with you. It's like I've seen really good 546 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,120 objectives or summaries that are high level, but give you a taste 547 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,720 of what that person is like in in the workplace and what they 548 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,080 bring to the table. And I've seen, unfortunately, 549 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,200 objectives that haven't been updated. 550 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,280 And it's like, well, are you actually looking to land your 551 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,600 next gig? Because you like, no one's going 552 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,120 to care about your resume more than you. 553 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,880 So if you spell your name wrong or your objective is like boring 554 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,000 like what's going on here? Yeah, or you give us the wrong 555 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,520 e-mail address. We get that a lot. 556 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,280 And I'm like, well, we took you out of the process because you 557 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,320 didn't respond for seven days. And we're looking for a 558 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,520 professional that's responsive and engaged. 559 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,240 And they're like, oh, that was the wrong e-mail address. 560 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,520 And I mean, we have to update our resumes with the e-mail 561 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:09,320 address. Totally. 562 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,840 The simple things matter. The simple things matter and I, 563 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:20,520 I think that there was this big like push for very like graphic 564 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:25,080 heavy resumes for a little while because of Canva and because of 565 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,320 AI tools also. And now people are realizing 566 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,920 that those things can also remove them from a process 567 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,600 inadvertently if there isn't a human looking at their resume. 568 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,480 Like if AI tools are the only ones sorting through resumes, 569 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,600 then they're not going to actually be able to gather 570 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,960 information or translate information from the resume into 571 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,960 data points. Like if someone has something in 572 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,600 a table or a graphic, it's not going to be read by those AI 573 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,240 tools. So it's interesting how with the 574 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:02,600 advent of AI and recruiting and HR, we've seen a push for a lot 575 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:07,880 of new ways of doing things. And then also it's, it's allowed 576 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,120 us to see some of the areas where we need to go back to 577 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,800 basics. Yeah. 578 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,400 I will, I will give a quick example just about having, you 579 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,160 know, bringing the human back to HR that you just made me think 580 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,200 of with that resume example from the flip side, from the employer 581 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,400 standpoint. So what they typically say is we 582 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,480 need an ATS friendly resume, right? 583 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,720 And that means take all the fun stuff out of it. 584 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,480 But in our, in our case, I was talking to a candidate, she was 585 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,520 at the C-Suite level. So a very professional and 586 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,880 experienced candidate, very busy too, right? 587 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,320 She has a busy life and she was reached out to proactively from 588 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:47,840 a recruiting team. It wasn't ours. 589 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,640 And they reached out to her saying we would love to chat. 590 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,240 Well, then they, they had a long conversation, said she'd be a 591 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,520 fantastic candidate, but didn't give her much about the role 592 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,160 because it was confidential. And the next step was please 593 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,800 change your resume into an ATS friendly resume and we'll send 594 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,520 you to the client. Well, if I'm sitting in that 595 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,120 seat, we would not do that. I would be talking to the client 596 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,000 and I would say, look, she's fantastic. 597 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,280 We we're grabbing her. This is proactive outreach. 598 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,120 I can definitely get an ATS friendly resume, but I can't ask 599 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,040 her to be doing something before we're able to even tell her 600 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,480 who's the client? Does she even want this role? 601 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,360 Again, these are executive level roles where nobody has 30 602 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,720 minutes in their schedule. She has to create that and now 603 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,160 we're asking her to do homework before we'll connect her to the 604 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,960 opportunity which she. Might not even be interested. 605 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,560 In right, I think that candidate centric candidate experience, 606 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,160 you have to have a human in here making these decisions, right. 607 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,920 We also see from our clients and our clients are really 608 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:52,520 sophisticated. They have large recruiting 609 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:53,800 teams. They do a great job. 610 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,760 We also see a lot of cases where we talked to a candidate that we 611 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,160 went out and found. We think they're a great fit for 612 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,760 the role. We talked to an internal 613 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,200 recruiter and find out that they were, they applied and they were 614 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,159 automatically turned down. And it's because of some 615 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,080 something right in the automation. 616 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,560 And we're we have the relationships with our clients 617 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,600 to say, listen, I understand like they were turned down by 618 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,239 your automated system, but we've already completed a 30 minute 619 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,800 interview. We can see the alignment and we 620 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,080 have so many wins in our team meetings where we say, because 621 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,280 we advocated and influenced that client, they now have the 622 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,639 perfect person. And also that candidate made it 623 00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:36,520 through the process where they would have had a bad taste in 624 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:41,239 their mouth if we weren't able to step in and support and and 625 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,080 kind of what we say is enhanced, right? 626 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,120 We come alongside those internal teams that maybe don't have 627 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,600 capacity to do what we do and offer that like white glove 628 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,679 experience. So that candidate experience is 629 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:55,800 top notch and you're getting first right of refusal on top 630 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,800 talent as an organization if you have that experience. 631 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,640 Right, right. No, that's so helpful. 632 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,280 I'm glad that you brought it back around because it's a 633 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,840 really important perspective actually to have. 634 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,320 And it's helpful for listeners who maybe do work with external 635 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,760 recruiters and aren't getting that it's, it's something for 636 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,720 them to think about that, you know, they can get that in, in, 637 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,960 in a recruiting firm or an agency that will help place top 638 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,000 candidates. I mean, I've certainly worked 639 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,840 with external recruiters, like globally outside of North 640 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,560 America where they were just feeding us candidates and it's 641 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:32,800 like, well, we could, we could do that. 642 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,080 That's not what we're looking for. 643 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,920 And then you eventually find, you know, the right firm that 644 00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:40,240 really meets your needs in those areas. 645 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:43,040 So I think that's a really important perspective to keep in 646 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,760 mind. Yes, Yeah. 647 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,800 Well, thank you so much for all of this conversation around 648 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,360 leveraging AI and not working in fear and really embracing it, 649 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,120 but also keeping the human hand on things. 650 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,160 And so I would love to ask you where the listeners can connect 651 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,400 with you if they're interested in learning more or connecting 652 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,040 with you about, you know, recruiting. 653 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,040 Yeah, absolutely. So you can find us primarily on 654 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,720 LinkedIn because we are AB to B recruiting firm. 655 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:13,760 So we don't do a whole lot in the cool channels like 656 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,960 Instagram, TikTok. So you can find me just my name, 657 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,280 Jen Hahn, the company page, that's where most of our social 658 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,640 and announcements and job opportunities come from. 659 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,480 That's J recruiting services. And then also as you mentioned 660 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,080 in the bio, we're just we have just freshly launched our 661 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,080 podcast called Candid with candidates. 662 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,720 It's very much geared towards this type of advice really, but 663 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:39,560 not advice from me as a recruiter because I don't have 664 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,240 all of it. I interview top executives from 665 00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:44,800 in and around the retail space, so retail, wholesale 666 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,040 distribution, CPG, about how they made it and what they think 667 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,480 it was that made them stand out or how they went through a 668 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,560 specific transition and what advice, what candid advice they 669 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,800 have for candidates. And what we say is you actually 670 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,600 said it earlier, Tracy, everyone is a candidate. 671 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,880 It's not just for people that are actively applying to roles. 672 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,800 If you're in corporate America, you're constantly in an 673 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,080 interview. Every meeting you go to, every 674 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,800 presentation you go to, that's your opportunity to show the 675 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,160 world what you bring to the table. 676 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,080 And that's an interview. So we're really excited about 677 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,280 those conversations and they can definitely find us on any 678 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,640 streaming platforms candid with candidates. 679 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,040 Amazing. We'll have everything linked to 680 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,080 in the show notes so everyone can very easily just click 681 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,360 around and get connected and listen to your podcast. 682 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,000 So congratulations, by the way, on the launch of your podcast. 683 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,720 Very exciting. It's been very fun. 684 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,520 Yes, it's always, it's always a blast, lots of work, but always 685 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,360 a blast and always rewarding too for those who listen. 686 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,080 So kudos to you and thank you again for joining my podcast. 687 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,240 I appreciate it. Thank you, It was an honor. 688 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,040 Thank you. It was super fun, easy to talk 689 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,120 to. That's why you've been so 690 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,720 successful, because you make the conversation very genuine. 691 00:37:56,720 --> 00:38:00,200 So it was fun to be here. Well, hey, you're welcome back 692 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,720 anytime. Hey, just before you go, don't 693 00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:07,520 forget to subscribe to the show so that you are the first to 694 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,280 hear when an episode drops each week and maybe leave a five star 695 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,840 review and a comment about how much you love this episode. 696 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,640 Plus, if you have someone in mind who would really enjoy this 697 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,280 episode, make sure you share it with them. 698 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,200 Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you next week.