1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:02,700 If your company is remote or hybrid then, you know, just how 2 00:00:02,700 --> 00:00:05,400 difficult it can be, to grow your company's culture Beyond a 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,700 pre-scheduled zoom, happy hour or occasional lunch and learn. 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,800 Well, this week's sponsor is here to solve that they're 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,200 called culture. Pop culture bot has devised. 6 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,700 What will likely become the gold standard for growing and 7 00:00:16,700 --> 00:00:19,100 blossoming a company culture inside of slack? 8 00:00:19,500 --> 00:00:22,800 The app is like a sidekick for any HR or people professional 9 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,200 automating. 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So if you're looking for a way 21 00:00:53,500 --> 00:00:55,500 to create a culture of appreciation, and drive 22 00:00:55,500 --> 00:00:58,800 increased engagement and togetherness across your team, I 23 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,800 definitely recommend checking Checking out culture bot, go to 24 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:06,700 get culture, box.com human HR that's get culture, bot.com 25 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,100 human HR to get the offer. Plus I've added the link in the 26 00:01:10,100 --> 00:01:11,800 show notes so you can just click right there. 27 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,900 Now let's get back to the podcast. 28 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,000 Welcome to the bringing the human Back To Human Resources 29 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,100 podcast. I'm Tracy turn off. 30 00:01:19,100 --> 00:01:21,900 And I've spent my entire professional career in a jar, 31 00:01:22,300 --> 00:01:25,400 each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people 32 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,400 and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create 33 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,500 meaningful outcomes. Listen in. 34 00:01:30,500 --> 00:01:34,300 As I share my own experiences challenge, the status quo and 35 00:01:34,300 --> 00:01:37,400 chat with guests from various Industries about our mission, to 36 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,900 bring the human Back To Human Resources, everyone, welcome 37 00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:43,400 back to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here 38 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,400 for another week. This week, I'm going to do a 39 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,400 little bit of a topic discussion, but also a Q&A 40 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,900 because I've received a couple of emails that I want to make 41 00:01:52,900 --> 00:01:56,500 sure that I get to and then I'm responding to through the 42 00:01:56,500 --> 00:01:59,100 podcast. So and thank you for your emails 43 00:01:59,100 --> 00:02:01,000 for asking. Asking some really good 44 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,800 questions. So first of all, I want to talk 45 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,700 about the four-day work week. The last time, I really talked 46 00:02:06,700 --> 00:02:10,300 about this. In an episode, was back in 2021 47 00:02:10,699 --> 00:02:15,600 before any trials were done before, you know, companies 48 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:17,900 decided that they were going to start implementing. 49 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:23,000 And, you know, if you are on LinkedIn and you're in the know 50 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,400 so to speak, then you probably already saw that Bloomberg 51 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,700 released an article that was titled world's Largest four-day 52 00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:32,800 Work. Week trial finds few are going 53 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,200 back and it was about the trial that was done in the UK, where 54 00:02:37,300 --> 00:02:41,900 61 organizations, which is roughly almost 3,000 employees, 55 00:02:42,700 --> 00:02:47,900 voluntarily adopted truncated work from June to December in 56 00:02:47,900 --> 00:02:54,600 2022 and basically these 61 organizations tried essentially, 57 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,400 this four-day work week of these 61 organizations. 58 00:02:59,300 --> 00:03:03,300 Only three organizations decided to pause the experiment and to 59 00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:06,900 are considering, or still considering shorter hours which 60 00:03:06,900 --> 00:03:10,100 is the in this data that was released last week. 61 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,700 And actually, by the time you listen to this, this is now two 62 00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:16,800 weeks prior. So February 20th is when the 63 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:24,100 article came out and basically of the of these employees who 64 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:28,100 went through the four-day work week, there was a decrease in 65 00:03:28,100 --> 00:03:31,500 Burnout. Us sleep difficulties and an 66 00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:35,000 increase in overall job satisfaction. 67 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,100 Which if you're surprised by this, unfortunately, I don't 68 00:03:39,100 --> 00:03:40,300 think you've been paying attention. 69 00:03:41,300 --> 00:03:43,100 I am not surprised by this at all. 70 00:03:43,500 --> 00:03:45,500 I think what's really interesting is? 71 00:03:46,100 --> 00:03:48,500 And I guess this is also an important piece to clarify. 72 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:55,600 So, in this trial just to be really specific of the 61 73 00:03:55,700 --> 00:03:59,500 companies in the UK that participated, they They 74 00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:05,100 basically had the employees work 34 hours a week and they did not 75 00:04:05,100 --> 00:04:09,700 reduce, you know their salary, there's salary was the same and 76 00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:13,100 again there was a report on Lower stress and Better Health, 77 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,800 none of the near 3,000 participants said that they 78 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,000 wanted to go back to five days, none of them all. 79 00:04:22,100 --> 00:04:27,500 Twenty-nine hundred participants wanted to stay at four days per 80 00:04:27,500 --> 00:04:31,600 week, 15, Percent of that population so that they would 81 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,200 not go back regardless of any amount of money offered to them. 82 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,900 That's like, really, really, really impactful statistics or 83 00:04:39,900 --> 00:04:43,000 those are really impactful statistics because when you 84 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,300 think about what companies are always talking about. 85 00:04:46,300 --> 00:04:48,700 It's like, you know, if you're providing this amazing 86 00:04:48,700 --> 00:04:54,300 environment and great pay people will be happy but this study 87 00:04:54,300 --> 00:04:55,800 kind of turns that on its head, right? 88 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:00,600 Because it's we're seeing that 61 or Has ations almost 3,000 89 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,600 employees participated in this for six months and there were 90 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,100 six fewer hours minimum in their week. 91 00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:12,000 So 34 hours a week and they stated the same salary, they 92 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:15,000 reported the same if not better productivity. 93 00:05:15,300 --> 00:05:17,400 I mean that's pretty incredible, right? 94 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,200 Because people are saying we're 15% of people are saying that no 95 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,000 amount of money is going to convince them to go back for a 96 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,900 fifth day. So sure, the other 85% of people 97 00:05:28,900 --> 00:05:32,000 might say oh well if you offer me enough I'll go back to that 98 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,700 five days. The reality is is that people 99 00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:38,400 are not going to be able to get any amount of money, right? 100 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,700 So companies are not going to be able to offer enough to make 101 00:05:42,700 --> 00:05:45,900 that fifth day. Enticing for those individuals 102 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:52,800 and to give you a little bit more context here in the report. 103 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:57,100 Organizational Revenue was up 35 percent from a year prior. 104 00:05:57,500 --> 00:06:00,600 And Rose by 1.4 percent during the trial. 105 00:06:01,300 --> 00:06:04,800 And of course, you know, Bloomberg's says that or the 106 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,000 article goes on to say that although multi-company measures 107 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,500 of productivity or difficult the organization's rated the impact 108 00:06:11,500 --> 00:06:15,200 of four days schedules as positive averaging 7.5 on a 109 00:06:15,208 --> 00:06:18,700 10-point scale, employee absenteeism dropped from two 110 00:06:18,700 --> 00:06:23,800 days a month 2.7 while turnover fell by more than half, although 111 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,700 the small sample and Broad labor market dynamics, make it 112 00:06:26,700 --> 00:06:30,100 difficult to Isolate the trial effect companies rated the 113 00:06:30,100 --> 00:06:32,600 overall experience and eight point three out of ten. 114 00:06:33,100 --> 00:06:36,700 That's incredible. I mean, we're always looking for 115 00:06:36,700 --> 00:06:40,100 the secret sauce to reducing turnover and you've heard me say 116 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:43,100 it a million times over that flexibility is the name of the 117 00:06:43,100 --> 00:06:46,500 game, but this trial goes to prove that, I'm not sure how 118 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:48,800 this would work in the United States, but I would, like to 119 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,200 think that we could do something similar. 120 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:57,200 I mean, I've seen some companies go to the 32 hour work. 121 00:06:57,300 --> 00:07:01,000 Because with the same salary, I think there I wouldn't be 122 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,400 surprised if the u.s. kind of approach this. 123 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,400 Well, if you go to four days then your salary changes, I 124 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:07,500 would just wouldn't be surprised. 125 00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:10,100 But that's not the right response because you can do the 126 00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:15,200 same amount of work in 40 hours as you do in 32 or 34. 127 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,300 And I say that because so many things waste our time, think 128 00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:22,200 about how many hours you sit and waste in meetings where you 129 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,600 could have just had had sound time to work on that thing and 130 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,000 then come together. You know, maybe less frequently 131 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,800 or in a way that's more productive. 132 00:07:31,700 --> 00:07:35,700 Most people that I speak to who are frustrated with their work 133 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,100 or who are dissatisfied in their jobs, say that they don't have 134 00:07:40,100 --> 00:07:42,500 enough time to actually get their job done and they're just 135 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:48,800 doing things that don't feel impactful or efficient. 136 00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:54,000 And I just imagine that a four-day work week would have a 137 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,100 huge impact on that. And I feel like, normally I see, 138 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,000 Companies, technology companies really kind of leading the 139 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,300 charge for being an early adopter to new ideas, New 140 00:08:04,300 --> 00:08:08,000 Concepts, new ways of working, but it would be really nice to 141 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,000 see a non industry specific approach to this in the United 142 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,500 States. I mean, I personally, I've been 143 00:08:14,500 --> 00:08:17,200 talking about this since Tony 21 because I really believe in it. 144 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,700 If I could have my way tomorrow, I would say that all companies 145 00:08:21,700 --> 00:08:29,100 should approach a truly flexible work week and It might sound 146 00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:33,700 like crazy Progressive to say this, but if we are hiring 147 00:08:33,700 --> 00:08:37,200 people that we've invested in that, we have to trust that we 148 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:42,000 are instilling are, you know, putting our trust in then really 149 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:47,000 who is why should we say that someone can't work whatever 150 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,900 schedule they want. Some people might want to work 151 00:08:48,900 --> 00:08:53,100 over weekends or some people might want to work just Monday 152 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:56,200 Tuesday. And then Thursday, I don't know. 153 00:08:56,500 --> 00:09:00,600 Maybe it's Maybe it's unrealistic for most Industries 154 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:05,000 and for most companies. But in reality, my point is not 155 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,600 to say that people should work whatever the schedule they want, 156 00:09:07,700 --> 00:09:11,300 but instead that they should have autonomy and 157 00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:13,900 self-determination over their schedules. 158 00:09:14,100 --> 00:09:17,300 So, instead of saying, okay, you work Monday to Friday, 9, to 5 159 00:09:17,700 --> 00:09:21,300 remote, or in person, whatever, like, some people are taking 160 00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:25,100 flexibility only to the place in which someone is working, but 161 00:09:25,100 --> 00:09:28,300 not taking it to the next level of like the timing in which 162 00:09:28,300 --> 00:09:31,200 they're working. So if we take it to that next 163 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,600 level, for the timing purposes, who's to say, we couldn't say, 164 00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:38,600 you know, there are certain points of the day, like a 165 00:09:38,608 --> 00:09:42,600 typical business is going to operate between like the hours 166 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,100 of 8 and 6. So there might be things that 167 00:09:45,100 --> 00:09:48,700 come up that you will need to be present for, but the rest of 168 00:09:48,700 --> 00:09:52,300 your day is yours. You need to figure out how to 169 00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:56,400 get your work done, whatever, that means to you, if I'm paying 170 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,300 someone to work. For my company. 171 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:03,000 I need to be able to trust them and if I can't trust them to 172 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,800 work and do the job, when when the job needs to be done, then 173 00:10:08,300 --> 00:10:10,700 why am I hiring them, right? And of course, there's always 174 00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:15,100 going to be that 10% of people or whatever the statistic is for 175 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:17,200 those who are not meeting expectations and you have to 176 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,500 manage them and it could be made harder when things are really 177 00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:23,100 flexible, I get that. But I'm not saying to flush the 178 00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:26,500 format completely I'm saying we need to embrace more. 179 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,100 Leti. And of course, I can't forget my 180 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:30,500 roots. I mean, I come from retail, 181 00:10:30,500 --> 00:10:32,100 right? This type of flexibility might 182 00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:35,600 seem really hard but actually it's not, it's just through 183 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,200 technology that were able to make flexibility more 184 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,700 accessible. And it's through enabling people 185 00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:47,800 to have, you know, the again the self-determination over their 186 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:52,000 schedules, that will allow them to have true flexibility. 187 00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:56,600 Of course in roles that are customer-facing, where you can't 188 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,700 necessarily Troll when a customer is working, you might 189 00:10:59,700 --> 00:11:03,200 not be able to have the same level of autonomy and 190 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:04,500 flexibility. I get that. 191 00:11:04,900 --> 00:11:08,400 But when I think about like, even my job or like an HR job, 192 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,300 the the the job is already flexible because someone could 193 00:11:12,300 --> 00:11:16,000 call you at 10:00 at night because something, you know, an 194 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,500 emergency happened. And that's not a 26 that's not 195 00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:21,700 95, right? But it doesn't mean that you're 196 00:11:21,700 --> 00:11:23,800 not going to take the call or doesn't mean that you're not 197 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,800 going to, you know, work at that time. 198 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,900 If It's what the job calls for. So I just think that companies 199 00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:32,600 and really need to think about, okay. 200 00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:35,600 What can they control about flexibility? 201 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,900 What can they influence about flexibility? 202 00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:42,700 And as we've seen in this trial what companies can influence? 203 00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:46,700 And control is the expectation around work the expectation 204 00:11:46,700 --> 00:11:50,600 around when someone is showing up to complete a job that 205 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:55,500 they've been hired to do. So again, I'm not saying that 206 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,500 all leaders. We'll make this work. 207 00:11:58,500 --> 00:12:02,800 I'm not saying that all Industries are all companies or 208 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:07,700 all practices would be able to thrive in a fully 1000% flexible 209 00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:12,600 environment, but I do think that the four-day Work Week could 210 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:17,100 also make someone who has, you know, maybe a job that requires 211 00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:19,900 someone to be in person four-day Work Week could actually be much 212 00:12:19,900 --> 00:12:23,800 more interesting for them. So in ways, I think that this 213 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:29,000 actually enables flexibility for companies or industries that 214 00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:32,000 historically couldn't be very flexible. 215 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,600 Like I could imagine a world where retailers allowed their 216 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,000 sales associates to pick how many days a week they wanted to 217 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,100 work without a reduction in their pay without a reduction in 218 00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:45,400 their benefits eligibility without a reduction in their, 219 00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:48,600 you know, understood performance and things like that. 220 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,900 I mean, I think it's really compelling and actually I'm 221 00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:53,800 going to have to find the study and I'll link it in the show 222 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,200 notes if I can find it and I'll link of course this article as 223 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:02,100 you guys know, The show notes. Well, I remember reading 224 00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:05,700 something, I think it was in 2022 about a retailer that 225 00:13:05,700 --> 00:13:08,800 adopted this four-day Work Week approach in the u.s. 226 00:13:09,300 --> 00:13:12,800 I have to find this information because that's exactly what I'm 227 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,100 trying to say. No one is forcing a hand here. 228 00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:19,900 There's no expectation. That four days is more flexible 229 00:13:19,900 --> 00:13:23,300 or you know, lack of business hours is more flexible. 230 00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:29,500 It kind of depends on what works for the business but I mean, I 231 00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:33,600 would love a four-day work week personally, I feel like I've 232 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,500 said it a million times over on this podcast that working 40 233 00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:42,100 hours a week is unnecessary. If you're really being efficient 234 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:46,600 and productive and I can realize if I add up the hours that I 235 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:52,100 spend during the day not working at my Max Capacity not working 236 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,400 super efficiently. Like it probably would be that 6 237 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,700 hours 6 to 8 hours. It probably would end up being 238 00:13:58,700 --> 00:13:59,700 that. Week. 239 00:13:59,900 --> 00:14:04,800 Where if I just if I knew I had Monday to Thursday, or Tuesday 240 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,100 to Friday or whatever, that looks like, where I'm working 241 00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:13,600 that for days, I'm probably going to have a much, much more 242 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,700 ink, you know, productive week and an increase in that 243 00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:20,100 productivity and I'm pretty productive person. 244 00:14:20,300 --> 00:14:24,800 And I feel like most of you are probably feeling the same way, 245 00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:27,400 maybe not. I think everyone works in and 246 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,300 does things differently, but You never know again. 247 00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:34,300 I think it depends on what we see as flexibility to me. 248 00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:37,900 It's like, you don't have to force a four-day work week, but 249 00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:41,800 you can offer it and it would be interesting to see if people 250 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:46,300 accepted well don't. And then on top of that, you 251 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:49,800 know, I'm sure that a question would come up like, well, how do 252 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:55,200 you have full coverage in in the company especially if you have 253 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,900 clients customers, Etc. I mean, you could literally 254 00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:02,000 Rotate one group could be Monday to Thursday. 255 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,400 Another group could be Tuesday to Friday. 256 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,200 You switch every 6 months. Like, who cares? 257 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,300 That's the logistical problem, right? 258 00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:09,600 And it's not even a problem. It's just a matter of figuring 259 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,800 it out. I think what really matters is 260 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,900 whether or not companies are going to be not Progressive 261 00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:19,900 enough, but forward-thinking enough to see the benefits of 262 00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:21,800 this, like, the turnover benefits alone. 263 00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:24,800 That's huge. That's a huge selling point and 264 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,800 should be a huge selling point for companies and I would love 265 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,200 to be part of a u.s. trial. I'll if anyone out there is 266 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,600 listening and has a four-day work week for their employees 267 00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:38,400 for yourself. Please write to me. 268 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,900 Email, me contact, HR Tracy.com. I really want to know. 269 00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:44,800 I want to hear the ins and outs and we can keep it confidential 270 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,800 so you don't, you know, share any trade secrets so to speak. 271 00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:49,800 All right, let's get into the Q&A. 272 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:54,300 So again, I received a few questions from listeners through 273 00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:57,900 email and I'm going to read this first one. 274 00:15:57,900 --> 00:16:00,600 I'm just going to make sure that I don't share anything personal. 275 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,600 So this person actually wants us to be a future episode, which I 276 00:16:05,608 --> 00:16:10,100 definitely can can put on the list, and it's about the subject 277 00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:14,400 of attitudes toward people with disabilities in the workplace 278 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,900 and the stigma there. And we've actually had a ton of 279 00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:20,900 conversations about this. Now, episode 114 was with 280 00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:24,800 Alexandra Gilbert and we talk about ADHD, dyslexia learning 281 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,400 disabilities in the workplace. So, if you haven't listened to 282 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:28,900 that, make sure you go check it out. 283 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,100 Out. And then also episode 118 is 284 00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:35,200 about navigating like the interactive process and how we 285 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,600 provide an equitable process for those who need accommodations. 286 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,100 So, this person writes I work for a small nonprofit with no HR 287 00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:44,900 department. I had a very upsetting 288 00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:48,400 conversation with my employer, where some extremely oppressive 289 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,900 and stigmatized Views toward people with disabilities, were 290 00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:55,600 shared by my leader, and ended up in an argument. 291 00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:57,700 And since then, I've been pretending that everything is 292 00:16:57,700 --> 00:17:00,200 fine because I We just don't know what to do. 293 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,700 And honestly, or really, I'm not. 294 00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:06,000 Okay, I'm a person with a disability and my boss is aware 295 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,700 of this. I'm wondering whether it's safe 296 00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:10,800 for me to continue working at this organization knowing what 297 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,800 this person's attitudes might be, should I try to address this 298 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,900 problem or ask for clarification around? 299 00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:18,700 What was said? I want to be able to express how 300 00:17:18,700 --> 00:17:21,800 I felt after that conversation and also my concerns about what 301 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,300 was said and how it was stigmatizing, but I'm also very 302 00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:27,400 afraid to do. So I've weighed the pros and 303 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,400 cons this job is really really good for my career goals and I'm 304 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,900 deeply invested in the work I do and the people I serve, but I'm 305 00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:35,900 deeply concerned with the culture and Leadership of the 306 00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:38,000 organization. It does not feel Progressive in 307 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,700 a way that should be given the vulnerable population that we 308 00:17:40,700 --> 00:17:42,900 serve. First of all, I'm really sorry. 309 00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:48,500 Secondly, I'm glad to hear that. This job is a job that you want 310 00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:52,100 to be in because I think, although it makes it probably 311 00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:53,700 feel a little bit more complicated. 312 00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:58,900 It also could potentially help you to feel a little bit. 313 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:04,300 Like more secure in the next steps. 314 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:09,500 And I want you to take with a grain of salt that you know, I'm 315 00:18:09,500 --> 00:18:14,100 giving you advice based on how I believe, I would respond and I 316 00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:19,800 can be pretty direct. And I think I've said it before 317 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,700 that. I am not super afraid of 318 00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:24,500 conflict. So, you know, just take that 319 00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:27,200 with a grain of salt that if you approach things differently and 320 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,600 maybe you're not as direct or maybe you are conflict a verse 321 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,800 that you'll probably going to need to like coach yourself to 322 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,600 have these conversations. Here's my advice, I think you 323 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,900 should be really direct about how this whole thing made you 324 00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:44,500 feel and really specific as well. 325 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:50,300 And I say this because I really believe that people say things 326 00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:57,100 that are, you know, based in stigmas or ignorant, or when 327 00:18:57,100 --> 00:19:00,900 the, you know, people say things that are just absent of facts 328 00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:03,700 because the because they lack knowledge and information. 329 00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:08,900 I've experienced this personally on many different levels, that 330 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:14,400 impact me personally. And at the end of the day, I 331 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,200 think one of the best things that we can do is help Hope to 332 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,300 educate someone not that, that is your responsibility because 333 00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:24,000 it's not. But if you really are invested 334 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,600 in this job and the population you serve I think not only will 335 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,700 it benefit your leader but it's going to make you feel more 336 00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:38,500 confident and secure in who you are and you can you can say that 337 00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:42,600 you've done everything to make this environment, one that's 338 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:47,400 more inclusive and you know safer for not only You but 339 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,300 others who might be feeling the same way as you, because 340 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,900 certainly those with and without disabilities can feel the same 341 00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:57,600 effect of, you know, conversations that are 342 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,600 inappropriate or ignorant or stigmatized. 343 00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:04,200 So I would really say to your leader. 344 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,100 How this made you feel that you don't feel safe that it made you 345 00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:11,900 feel really uncomfortable and I don't know maybe there's a you 346 00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:13,600 know, there's no HR department, I hear you. 347 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,300 I hear you on this but I also think especially Really if 348 00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:19,800 you've had a good relationship up until this point with your 349 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:24,300 leader, I think you could suggest not sensitivity training 350 00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:27,900 but maybe it's that maybe it's like diversity training for 351 00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:32,800 everyone in the organization because it almost sounds like 352 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,200 the population. You serve could be connected in 353 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,700 some way to what you experience or at least maybe is a 354 00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:44,800 vulnerable population that requires more empathy and I 355 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,500 think you can speak on their behalf As well. 356 00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:53,500 And I really encourage you to use your voice because honestly, 357 00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:56,900 whether this is a job that you really love or not, you have a 358 00:20:56,900 --> 00:20:59,800 voice, you've been given a voice for a reason, and I really think 359 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:05,700 that you should feel comfortable being yourself and speaking up 360 00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:07,300 for yourself. And so I really hope that you 361 00:21:07,308 --> 00:21:08,800 do. And if you don't, I don't think 362 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,600 you should feel bad. But my eye, I think that people 363 00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:18,600 overall benefit and get so much out of Of using their voice and 364 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,000 being who they are and just sticking up for themselves. 365 00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:24,400 And I'm again I'm really sorry that this happened to you. 366 00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:29,500 It's totally not. Okay and you should if you call 367 00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:32,600 it out then you inherently are saying that it's not okay and it 368 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,800 doesn't matter if it's weeks later people will always say oh 369 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,200 well why don't you bring this up in the moment? 370 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,000 Hello I had to process I mean come on get real if your boss 371 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,000 pushes back and says something like that. 372 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,000 You can say listen I mean Put your put yourself in my shoes 373 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,600 like this is not an easy thing to talk about and I honestly 374 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,100 didn't know how I felt and I need time to process and that 375 00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:55,900 shouldn't discredit, what I'm bringing up now. 376 00:21:55,900 --> 00:21:58,800 So email me back. Let me know what you decide to 377 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:04,600 do and how everything works out. Next question, I work in 378 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:11,200 California as an HR specialist for an education conglomerate, 379 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,100 let's say, or you know organization, I love the 380 00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:18,300 Experience in empowering employees and your podcast, 381 00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:21,100 thank you so much. Can you please provide me with 382 00:22:21,100 --> 00:22:24,000 additional examples on how to help my employees regarding when 383 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,000 HR should step in? Also do you have an HR cheat 384 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,400 sheet or highlights for quite for questions? 385 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,300 Ranging from short term, long term disability, FMLA simple 386 00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:37,200 interactive process forms return to working requirements and a 387 00:22:37,208 --> 00:22:39,500 ton of other documents thanks in advance. 388 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,400 So I don't have cheat sheets, but I can certainly make those 389 00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:44,200 odds, put some thought into this. 390 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,600 So thank you for the suggestion. I will see if any of the people 391 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,100 that I'm connected with have documents as well but let's get 392 00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:58,300 to your question first. So Examples for when and or how 393 00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:00,800 to help my employees regarding 1hr should step and you know, 394 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,100 it's hard, right? Because what we do is so gray, 395 00:23:04,100 --> 00:23:10,200 everything that we kind of come in contact with is very, you 396 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,900 know, it's very much like a I don't know, a spectrum. 397 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,500 So sometimes it's based on the situation. 398 00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:23,900 And so I would say that in terms of examples for how, how to help 399 00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:27,700 your employees knowing to know, when to step in excuse me, I 400 00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:30,600 think it kind of comes down to building up their confidence. 401 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,500 So if they're, you know, coming to you for every single thing 402 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,100 and they're like oh you know, this happened with this person, 403 00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:41,000 this happened with this teacher. What have you? 404 00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:42,800 I think you can start to use those. 405 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,400 And to say, hey, we've had a few situations like this. 406 00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:50,100 What are, you know, here are the similarities and you're coming 407 00:23:50,100 --> 00:23:53,800 to me because you recognize that there's probably some level at 408 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,800 which we need to support. That's your initial signal and 409 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,200 then instead of giving them the answers right away, it's kind of 410 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,800 like a coaching conversation where you're getting them to 411 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,900 answer their own questions. That is probably one of the best 412 00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:11,300 ways that you can help your employees to navigate when and 413 00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:15,300 how to step in because then They start to think about the process 414 00:24:15,300 --> 00:24:18,100 themselves and they start to answer their own questions. 415 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,800 And on top of that, I think you also could role play with your 416 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,700 employees. Whether it's through, you know, 417 00:24:24,700 --> 00:24:28,800 your your staff meeting or during a regular meeting that 418 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,500 you have bring in examples of things that have come up 419 00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:36,800 recently and have everyone weigh in on it that exposure where, 420 00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:39,300 you know, maybe they haven't had exposure unless it was their 421 00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:42,500 specific example or circumstance, that exposure is 422 00:24:42,500 --> 00:24:47,100 going to give I am an opportunity to train and hear a 423 00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:51,600 different perspective or a way to approach things before 424 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,600 needing to or before even coming across that themselves. 425 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,700 So that would be my recommendation. 426 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,100 It's honestly it kind of just takes time. 427 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,200 It's something I'm sure you know as an HR specialist that it's 428 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,600 over time that we develop the confidence and that we developed 429 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:12,100 the process around dealing with things that require our 430 00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:14,400 involvement. So I would really encourage you 431 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,600 to create as many training and learning opportunities as 432 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,100 possible and ask questions. Like, ask them if there's 433 00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:24,500 something that they feel a lack of confidence in or insecure 434 00:25:24,500 --> 00:25:28,500 about and that will help you in figuring out where you can help 435 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:29,900 them and better support them as well. 436 00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:34,800 Let me know if that helped you feel free to email me back and 437 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,700 let me know how things are going for anyone who might have 438 00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:42,500 questions that, you know, if you have not heard the answer to 439 00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:45,700 your question, Or you haven't asked a question before, email 440 00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:49,400 me at contacted HR Tracy.com. Everything is linked in my show 441 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,200 notes as well, so you can just click there. 442 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,500 I love getting questions and it really helps me to understand 443 00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:59,800 where the conversations can go and where, you know, the content 444 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,500 that I'm providing you is most valuable in terms of what we're 445 00:26:03,500 --> 00:26:05,700 discussing. So, thank you so much for 446 00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:07,400 reaching out. I really do appreciate it. 447 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,800 And again, thank you for for being here for another week. 448 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,500 Next week is also a an So just with me, so no guest next week 449 00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:19,500 either, but I really look forward to continuing the 450 00:26:19,508 --> 00:26:23,200 conversation, continuing to ask your, answer your questions and 451 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,700 I hope you have an amazing rest of your week. 452 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,200 Also, before I forget, the miniseries is officially 453 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,100 launched, the open to work miniseries. 454 00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:35,000 So those episodes are coming out on Thursdays, so make sure you 455 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,600 check them out. And if you have anyone in mind, 456 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,200 that could be, you know, that could come on. 457 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,100 Then the miniseries, send them my way. 458 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,900 There is a link in the show notes as well to have the form 459 00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:50,400 submitted for the miniseries and be sure to share those mini 460 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,500 series with people who are hiring or might really be 461 00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:55,900 interested in the person who's open to work. 462 00:26:56,100 --> 00:26:57,700 So with that. Thank you so much. 463 00:26:57,700 --> 00:26:59,400 I'll see you next week for a regularly. 464 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,000 Scheduled typical podcast episode on Tuesdays, and I'll 465 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,800 see you on Thursday for a mini series. 466 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,100 Episode have a great one. Hey, just before you go, don't 467 00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:10,800 forget to subscribe to the show, so that you are the first to 468 00:27:10,808 --> 00:27:13,000 hear when an episode drops each week. 469 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,900 And maybe leave a five star review and a comment about how 470 00:27:15,908 --> 00:27:18,700 much you love this episode. Plus if you have someone in 471 00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:20,400 mind, who would really enjoy this episode? 472 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,700 Make sure you share it with them. 473 00:27:21,700 --> 00:27:24,700 Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you next week.