1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,520 Welcome to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:04,840 podcast. I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've 3 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,240 spent my entire professional career in HR. 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,880 Each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people 5 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,880 and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create 6 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,760 meaningful outcomes. Listen in as I share my own 7 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,560 experiences, challenge the status quo, and chat with guests 8 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,600 from various industries about our mission to bring the human 9 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,880 back to Human resources. Hi everyone, welcome back to the 10 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:28,880 Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources podcast. 11 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:30,640 Thank you so much for being here for another week. 12 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,840 Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you're 13 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:34,920 catching this episode. And if you're watching on 14 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,480 YouTube, be sure to give this video a thumbs up. 15 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,200 Appreciate it in advance. This week we're going to spend 16 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,520 quite a bit of time talking about generational differences 17 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,520 in the workplace and specifically Gen. 18 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,480 Z, which I think we might have talked about a little bit before 19 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:54,280 on the podcast, but definitely not enough because the 20 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,720 generational differences and the number of generations in the 21 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,880 workplace is pretty significant these days. 22 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:05,200 So to do this I have on my guest here, Megan, who has heard the 23 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,000 line Millennials are killing the fill in the blank industry one 24 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,960 too many times and has channeled her energy into helping people 25 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:15,600 create more collaborative experiences across generations 26 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,600 since 2014. Doctor Megan Grace is a leading 27 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,680 generational expert whose research on Gen. 28 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,120 Z spans the last decade and has helped companies, universities, 29 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,560 and associations around the world understand generations to 30 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,800 work Better Together. Megan prioritizes understanding 31 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,840 the human experience while providing data informed insights 32 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,600 about generations. Guided by multiple studies. 33 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,200 Doctor Grace helps connect the dots between getting to know a 34 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,280 generation and knowing what makes them tick. 35 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,440 She is the host of the podcast #Gen Z and has co-authored 3 36 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,440 books on Generation Z with her new book Generations in the 37 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,720 World of Work coming out later this year. 38 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,240 When she isn't researching, speaking, writing, or podcasting 39 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,680 about generations, she Co leads the Institute for Generational 40 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,000 Research and Education. Doctor Grace Megan, welcome to 41 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:03,480 the podcast. Thank you so much for being 42 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:04,440 here. Thank you. 43 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,200 Yeah, we can go by Megan. I feel like when we intro with 44 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,479 the doctor, they're like, can you give me medical advice? 45 00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:13,280 And I'm like, absolutely not. I mean, we can Google your 46 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,200 symptoms together. No doctor in education. 47 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,680 Still a very valid one. Our first lady, Joe Biden has 48 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,840 one. But it's wonderful to be here. 49 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:22,880 Tracy, thanks for having me. Of course. 50 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,720 Thank you so much. And as I had mentioned at the 51 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,600 top of the podcast, there is so much to discuss when it comes to 52 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,880 generations, generational differences, how they impact the 53 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,840 workplace. But obviously, it goes without 54 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,040 saying, as we read in your bio, that Gen. 55 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,360 Z, and especially given that this is a whole podcast for you, 56 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,840 is a major focus point for you, not only in your research, but 57 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,840 also in what you share and what you're passionate about talking 58 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,200 about. So maybe we have to start there. 59 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,120 Maybe we need to start with who is Gen. 60 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,440 Z? Who are they made-up of? 61 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,280 What ages are they? And what are some of the 62 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,040 differences that we see related to Gen. 63 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,320 Z? Specifically, yeah. 64 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,720 So Gen. Z, we use the the age range of 65 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:13,280 1985 to 2010. So when we're thinking about who 66 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:18,360 those people are in society in this day of 2024, that is 67 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,920 college students, like some high school students who are seeing 68 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:26,240 like they're kind of growing out of high school, predominantly in 69 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:27,880 college. They are the predominant college 70 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:32,480 population, but they're also that young adult new hire in 71 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,640 most industries. So think anything from 18 to 72 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,600 almost 3018 to 29. They're turning 30 next year. 73 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,760 If everyone wants to feel elderly, the oldest of Gen. 74 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,720 Z will be 30 next year. They're freaking out. 75 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,320 We're freaking out. Everybody's freaking out, but so 76 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,280 they are really squarely in higher education and higher Ed 77 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,760 has been hanging out with them for a little while and trying to 78 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,680 to pivot and adapt to this generation. 79 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,280 And like the generate the demographic shift not only in 80 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,400 like who they are, but the sheer number of them or smaller number 81 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,040 of them is the better way to put that. 82 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:10,040 But the, the corporate space and the world of work is really, 83 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,200 they were sneaking in there and they're pretty solidly almost 10 84 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,920 years of them in the workspace now. 85 00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:21,519 So many of them are, I don't know where we put that cut off 86 00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:26,040 of like approaching of their mid career, but some of them have 87 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,760 been in roles for five to seven years now. 88 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,400 And so they're, they're there. They, they have their workplace 89 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,960 habits and they are, I don't want to say shaking up the world 90 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,760 of work. They are doing what a new 91 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,640 generation does when they get to a new phase of life, which is 92 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,840 bring their own perspectives and their own values, behaviors, 93 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:47,320 trends, mindsets into those environments. 94 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,960 They did it in education. They've done it as they've gone 95 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,960 to college, and they're doing it again as they're going into 96 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,160 work. They're going to do it as they 97 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,520 more predominantly become parents and leading families. 98 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,200 And so that's just like the interesting thing when we're 99 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,600 thinking about this generation is it's not like they were 100 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,840 quietly entering, right? Like we actually have, 101 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,160 millennials are the most studied generation to date, Gen. 102 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,600 Z's like right after them. And that's just the advancement 103 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,840 of being able to study large groups of people and like 104 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,880 conduct demographic studies like we oftentimes do, right? 105 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,120 So with this generation, I mean, we know the age range. 106 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,960 We know that this generation is, if you're paying attention to 107 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,360 people within that age, they're very socially driven, not in the 108 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,040 idea of like, I need to have a lot of friends, but really this 109 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,200 mindset of like social change oriented and trying to make the 110 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,640 world a better place. Like that's a big motivation of 111 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,640 theirs is helping others, but they're also very digital, very 112 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,280 digitally defined generation. It's not the only thing that 113 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:49,360 defines this generation, but it is something that's unique. 114 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,320 Like they have truly, they cannot picture a world when we 115 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,400 did not have the Internet. They, they just can't fathom it, 116 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,400 not a single day. And so like, that's just like a 117 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,520 very different, like millennials. 118 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,760 I think we've been on the train of being like, technology's 119 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,360 good. Let's learn new technology. 120 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,000 But we could also be like, we knew there was a time when we 121 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,560 didn't have it and like, or it was very slow or it was more of 122 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,120 a commodity as opposed to like a necessity for Gen. 123 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:15,560 Z. It's always been a necessity. 124 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,720 Like they really don't have any conscious memories before the 125 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:18,200 iPhone. Oh. 126 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,000 My God. Wow. 127 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,880 Yeah. So like things to like think 128 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:29,840 about is the the way that technology is adapted alongside 129 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:33,120 them while they're also just developing what are normal human 130 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,400 life skills of communication, navigating the world, 131 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,080 understanding people, getting jobs, going to school. 132 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,120 Technology has been such a strong undercurrent for this 133 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,040 generation. And it's just really it's 134 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,600 embedded in their DNA. But they also recognize like the 135 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,120 double edged sword that technology plays. 136 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,520 So that's like just a snippet about Gen. 137 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,320 Z. I know there's so much more we 138 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,360 could talk about, but, and I know that we will get there, but 139 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,640 that is just like the really quick and the quick and The 140 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,160 Dirty of who they are. It's this, the young adult 141 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,000 generation, the latter teens, they're really in that. 142 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,680 I think that unique, malleable time in life, which is actually 143 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,080 when we want to study generations is when they are 144 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,720 developing and forming their, their personal worldview, their 145 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:17,400 identity set their values. So from a generational lens, 146 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,040 that's when like generational theorists like myself come in 147 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,960 and we're like, oh, this is the time to understand this group. 148 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,680 Like we don't want to do it any earlier because we don't, we 149 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,760 don't. I mean, when you're 12, you're, 150 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,880 you're not, yes, you're developing who you are, but 151 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:35,240 you're not fully there yet. A lot of it is the understanding 152 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,360 through the lens of your parents, your guardians, your 153 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,520 family members and like your immediate circle. 154 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,480 It's not till we get to those teen and young adult years that 155 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,200 we really can start to develop what would be like a 156 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,960 generational identity. That is so fascinating, thank 157 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,440 you for sharing that. I mean, I am still a little hung 158 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:57,240 up on this understanding that they that Gen. 159 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,920 Z does not really have a view of the world without some of these 160 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:06,900 critical advances and technology like the iPhone, like non dial 161 00:08:06,900 --> 00:08:10,000 up Internet. Because I can like I think about 162 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,040 dial up, I can hear the sound. I distinctly remember what life 163 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,160 was like before having a computer and after having a 164 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,640 computer, which certainly was a commodity. 165 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,240 I would say it's just so interesting because I feel like 166 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,480 I might sound like the boomer that said millennials or this 167 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,640 millennials or that one. I'm like, oh, Gen. 168 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,039 Z is like this and Gen. Z is like that. 169 00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:35,600 But actually that is kind of the beauty of having generational 170 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,640 differences is that we have our own generational identity, to 171 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,000 your point, and we compare ourselves to other generations, 172 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,640 just like as a millennial, I can compare myself to Gen. 173 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,320 X or the Boomers who my parents are. 174 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,840 And so it, it's just like really interesting to me. 175 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,280 And and given all the research that you've done, I'm curious 176 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,360 especially from a theoretical standpoint, are there 177 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:05,800 predictions on what Gen. Z will be like when they are 178 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,240 even they probably are already decision makers in business. 179 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,920 But I guess maybe more broadly, regardless of whether they're 180 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,280 decision makers, not what, what Gen. 181 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:21,160 Z will be like in the workforce as time continues to pass and as 182 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,160 other generations then are added to the workforce. 183 00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:26,160 Yeah. So we're actually probably in a 184 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,800 really good place with having spent about 10 years thinking 185 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,480 about Gen. Z as young adults. 186 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,360 Like I frame them all kind of as young adults. 187 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,720 We have about 10 years of our understanding of them. 188 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:42,000 And So what we tend to do in yes, there's actual social 189 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,040 science that goes into understanding generations, 190 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,240 people probably, they probably think it's like a BuzzFeed quiz, 191 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:51,040 but it's it's really being able to like know how the human 192 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,040 identity is shaped. And then how do we do that as a 193 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,040 collective in response to society? 194 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,040 So like that's like the really quick and dirty of like how we 195 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,000 would understand a generation. When we're looking at Gen. 196 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,440 Z, we've been looking at them for about 10 years in this kind 197 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,720 of like lens of life and thinking about the things that 198 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,720 influence a generation. We tend to look at what are the 199 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,920 things technologically going on, What are the things in society 200 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,120 from like a social issues perspective? 201 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,680 What are the things going on economically? 202 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,240 And then what are the things that are going on like 203 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,200 politically and government wise, Like what is the kind of like 204 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,120 the geopolitical landscape that they live in? 205 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,360 Because all of those things are intertwined. 206 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,800 Like they're so coupled together. 207 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,520 So really we take a good hard look at life and what society is 208 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,600 doling out to them during those years. 209 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,680 And we say, how are people going to respond to that? 210 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:40,880 And like, when we've looked at Gen. 211 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,520 Z, there have been some really clear markers, right? 212 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,240 Like the technological advancement and how it allows 213 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,040 people to connect and be informed. 214 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,800 Like that's a big one for Gen. Z, like being informed and 215 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,920 connected in a very unique way that's different than previous 216 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,560 generations, what we've also seen that they've lived through 217 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,840 and what millennials like, we kind of feel like we're all 218 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,160 together in this one is like unprecedented times where we 219 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,440 kind of always feel like we're living through another 220 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,560 historical event every single day. 221 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,000 And a relative for Gen. Z looking at that and saying, 222 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,120 well, like 2000 year session happened, that wasn't great. 223 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,440 Started jobs in the middle of the pandemic that wasn't great. 224 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,600 There's war all over the place, apparently, like the climate is 225 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,320 on fire and we can't even go to school and be safe. 226 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,200 So like Gen. Z looks at the world and they're 227 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,480 kind of like, it's scary out there. 228 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,120 And a future is not certain that it's been present for like the 229 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,200 the last 10 years of them developing their worldview is 230 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,800 like what the world is spitting back to them is like, first of 231 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,400 all, it's scary out here. Second of all, it's expensive 232 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,680 out here. And so they're very like, it's 233 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:52,920 this interesting balance that they bring to it of like being 234 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,440 very cognizant of the fact that there's problems in the world 235 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,280 and that they have to take care of themselves to even be able to 236 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,920 navigate those problems. The other piece of it is they're 237 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,680 like, I don't want to say they're doomsday preppers, but 238 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:09,240 they are always kind of prepared for the next rainy day, whether 239 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,240 that's financially or trying to think about some level of 240 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:14,920 uncertainty. And when we think about like the 241 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,880 major issues that they tend to tell us that they care about in 242 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,920 all of our studies, it is there's this undercurrent of 243 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,560 wanting stability in their own personal lives, stable housing, 244 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,000 access to healthcare, stable jobs. 245 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,640 Like they're not asking for like everyone to have a starting 246 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,320 salary of six figures. They're like, I want to pay my 247 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:32,600 bills and be able to support my family. 248 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,840 Wild stuff. And then the other piece of it, 249 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,840 like while they, it feels like they're laden with like, what 250 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:43,880 sounds like a terrible adulthood, they also deeply care 251 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,080 about making the world a better place. 252 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:50,200 Like they look at the world and they say this is not so great 253 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,920 sometimes, but there's so much opportunity to improve things. 254 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,760 And I think when we we look at how they are really driven by 255 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,200 making the world a better place. I put quotes around that because 256 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,840 everyone's world feels different and helping people out. 257 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,840 What we, I think, are prepared for in the workplace to really 258 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,600 get to your question is that this generation kind of brings 259 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,200 the balance of nihilism and optimism at the same time. 260 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,640 This idea that like, let's be real about the big issues in our 261 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,360 world and let's also do what we can to make it better at the 262 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,560 same time. And I think that the that to me, 263 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:25,640 what I hear from a workplace perspective is this is a 264 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,920 generation that is if given the opportunity and engaged in the 265 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,800 right way, are going to be the people that are going to help 266 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,800 improve some of the cultural issues we have within our 267 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,400 workplaces. As well as just the opportunity 268 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,680 to make things more efficient and potentially operate a little 269 00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:43,280 bit better. Because this is a very much so a 270 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,680 generation that's like, let's work smarter, not harder on this 271 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:47,320 one people. Right. 272 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,240 I love that. And not to cut you off, I'm sure 273 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,280 you you have more to add to that. 274 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,960 But when I think about that especially, I do think about 275 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,400 something that you said a little bit earlier, which was around 276 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,560 this, you know, kind of being the catalyst for a lot of 277 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:07,320 change. I'm, I don't think I'm quoting 278 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,680 you verbatim there, but I did an episode maybe last year, 279 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,280 sometime last year around how Gen. 280 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:19,440 Z is really quite admirable for their approach to workplace 281 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,160 challenges. In my opinion. 282 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,920 Because I think it was at that time that I was seeing a lot of 283 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:29,560 these trends that where people, especially those in Gen. 284 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,840 Z, were challenging the status quo. 285 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:37,120 And they were saying, hey, if you're not gonna change the way 286 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,440 that you interact with me and the people that I work with, 287 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,520 meeting businesses, leaders, etc, and you're not gonna make 288 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,920 this a better place to work, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go and 289 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:50,520 find something else. And I remember reflecting on my 290 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,040 own experience in some challenging environments in my 291 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,760 past where I was like, I've got to make it work. 292 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,040 I'm lucky to have a job. And, you know, jobs are hard to 293 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,720 come by. And I remember in that episode 294 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,800 thinking, well, that is such a such a drastic difference in 295 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,360 response to cultural workplace challenges. 296 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:18,120 And as a millennial, like I can honestly reflect on being told 297 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,800 that, you know, you have to respect authority. 298 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,120 And no matter what someone says, like if they are higher ranking, 299 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,760 like you're going to have to follow direction and challenging 300 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,320 the status quo could make could mean that you're making waves in 301 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,720 your job or in your experience. It could mean that you get 302 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,600 fired. And if you get fired, then what 303 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,120 are you going to do? And even though I am a 304 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,360 self-proclaimed challenge challenger of the status quo, I 305 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,800 think I can do that now because I feel more stable in my career. 306 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,360 But early on, I would never think of really making waves, 307 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,560 maybe like teeny tiny little ripples. 308 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:59,000 But I think Gen. Z is in very, very many ways the 309 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,640 antithesis to that perspective because they are like, well, I 310 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,160 don't have to stay here. I can go and find another job. 311 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,160 I can go and be an influencer. I can create my own company. 312 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,120 Like there's just such a drastic difference and I really applaud 313 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,080 them for that. You know, obviously I'm speaking 314 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,640 very generally here, but that's my my initial thought on what 315 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,840 you've shared. Well, and I think that Gen. 316 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,280 Z kind of has this mindset of like, you don't need me, like, 317 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,640 or I don't need you as much as you need me, right? 318 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,600 And like they do have more opportunity. 319 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,600 And it kind of just feels like they have this like absolute 320 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,080 unwavering spirit of entrepreneurship, even when 321 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,840 they're working within a company and they didn't start it and 322 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,240 they don't own it. Like this idea of improvement 323 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:44,880 and solving a problem. Like that's what an 324 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,320 entrepreneurial mindset actually is, is doing business to solve a 325 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:53,640 problem. And I think for them, they are 326 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,720 drawn to entrepreneurship for the flexibility, for the 327 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,280 freedom, right? Everybody wants that. 328 00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:59,520 Anyone that's like, oh, they don't want to work. 329 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,040 I'm like, you have been lied to. I think that for Gen. 330 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,720 Z, they look at it and I don't even know if it's like 331 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,640 challenging the status quo or being disrespectful. 332 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,440 It's questioning because they don't they don't know what they 333 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,440 don't know. And so they might ask a question 334 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,400 about a policy and it'll come across as like, well, maybe we 335 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,400 were, maybe they were being disrespectful because they don't 336 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,119 want to follow the policy. But in reality, they're like, 337 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,040 hey, I'm new here. I don't know why this policy 338 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:23,720 exists. Can you please give me some 339 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,760 background on this? And people kind of take that 340 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,040 personally for whatever reason. And I'm like, don't take it 341 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,520 personally. They don't know what they don't 342 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:32,560 know. They're new here. 343 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,640 You at one point didn't know that either. 344 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,880 And I think for millennials, we were very much so told like, 345 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,400 show up, do your job, listen to the boss, follow the rules and 346 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,160 you'll be rewarded. Once again, we fell for the 347 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,240 scam. And that's not always the case. 348 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,000 Like it is not always the case. And Gen. 349 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,160 Z's like, I'm not going to be scammed by this. 350 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,040 I want you to be honest with me and I want you to be true with 351 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,200 me. And millennials. 352 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,880 We really did. And it and it comes from because 353 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,280 that model worked for our baby boomer parents. 354 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,720 The economy changed so drastically and the workforce 355 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,800 changed so drastically right around the 2000s and 356 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:12,240 the.likethe.com era, when technology really did shake up a 357 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,400 lot in the way that we thought about work. 358 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,760 And it impacted millennials and the economy shifted in this 359 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,760 mindset. But we were playing by rules. 360 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,240 Millennials were playing by rules that were designed for and 361 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,800 by baby boomers, the Gen. Xers. 362 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,440 It didn't, it wasn't disadvantaging them. 363 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:31,520 And so, like, we look at it and we're like, how bold of these 364 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,280 John's ears to come in and ask these questions. 365 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,800 I would have never done that. But that's also we're just given 366 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,000 a set of rules that really I don't think was designed for 367 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,920 millennials to succeed. And I love the tenacity of Gen. 368 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,800 Z because again, I've had to do a lot of self coaching, like 369 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:49,120 when students or interns or newer hires ask questions like, 370 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,400 why is it like this? And I don't take it as like, why 371 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,200 are you like that, Megan? It's more like, can you explain 372 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,840 to me the historical context of why things are the way that they 373 00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,960 are? And then they might say, but 374 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:03,800 what if we did XY and Z and it saved us 5 hours a week? 375 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,680 And you're like, you're a genius, right? 376 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,320 It's it's this mindset of don't get mad about it. 377 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,360 Just answer the question and see where that conversation takes 378 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:13,320 you. But it's just, I go on and on 379 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,280 about like this misconception around Gen. 380 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,200 Z, it being like they want to, they want to shake up the 381 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,640 challenge like status quo and they want to break everything. 382 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,840 I'm like, no, Jen, they're not getting together. 383 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,640 I promise you, they're not getting together on the corners 384 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,040 of the Internet to say let's go make all our bosses mad. 385 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,640 Right. No, they just are asking 386 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,720 questions that we might not have asked before. 387 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,640 Or answer fresh fresh set of eyes we love. 388 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,200 We hire consultants for that. Yeah, it's really true. 389 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,000 We do. We do. 390 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:43,480 Every company pretty much does. So now that we know much more 391 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:49,400 clearly who Gen. Z is and what they're like and 392 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,240 more often than not in the workplace, what are some things 393 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,160 that create could create, let's say, because it doesn't always. 394 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,240 But what are some things that could create tension between 395 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,200 intergenerational workforces and generational differences in the 396 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:06,480 workforce? Because certainly. 397 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,440 I'm sure you and I can think of a time where we might have 398 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,840 clashed with a different generation because of the way 399 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,720 that we work or the way that we think. 400 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,680 So what are some of those things that listeners might want to 401 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,920 keep an eye out for? So I think for Gen. 402 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,960 Z especially, they are incredibly protective of one, 403 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,880 their self worth and their self-care. 404 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,000 And I don't think there's been the other generations who have 405 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,560 gone in and been like, I'm going to sacrifice my life, my 406 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,360 happiness and potentially my family to have this job. 407 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,840 Just seems like that's a heap of garbage. 408 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,400 We're not doing that. And they're doing it at such a 409 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,120 young age. And so again, it comes back to 410 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:42,680 like other generations look at that. 411 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,360 And they're like the audacity of the youth to say that this job 412 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:48,880 isn't important. And they're like, no, it's 413 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,960 important to me that 8 hours a day that you pay me to be here 414 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,640 and to care my nights, my weekends, not as big of a deal. 415 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,440 So I think the workaholic nature of some previous generations, 416 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,080 there's going to be this clashing of like, they don't 417 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,400 seem as committed. And it's like they might just be 418 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,040 appropriately and at a healthy level committed to their jobs. 419 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,200 Because this generation is, I think, much louder about the 420 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,240 mindset of like, I'm working to live, not living to work. 421 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,920 We're previous generations, we've been told you need to live 422 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,560 to work. You need to cut your teeth until 423 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,920 you're about 45 and you're the senior manager and you can do 424 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,880 whatever you want. Yeah, it's true. 425 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,880 And Gen. Z's like, Nope, not doing that. 426 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,080 And so this mindset of like, yeah, your Gen. 427 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,840 Z employees might sign off at 5 and you probably won't hear from 428 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:36,880 them until 9:00 AM the next day, unless they have opted into 429 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,800 taking on a flexible work environment where they might not 430 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,080 clock in until 10:00 AM. They might work until 3:00, but 431 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,560 then they're going to cry them out, work from 8:00 to 10:00 PM, 432 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,440 and they're going to get the same amount of work done. 433 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,320 And so this element, I just think that their desire for 434 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,440 flexibility, the element of fluidity, and then this 435 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,520 preservation of taking care of their human self is going to rub 436 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,680 wrong against some older generations who have just been 437 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,760 like, that's not how you get ahead in the world. 438 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,840 And they're like, I don't care about getting ahead in the 439 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,680 world. I just want a job and I just 440 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,320 want my paycheck and that's OK. Yeah, especially thinking about 441 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:18,520 that if an older generation is managing a member of Gen. 442 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:24,040 Z and even in a flexible work environment, if there's a lack 443 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,800 of trust or even from this older generation, really not 444 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:32,400 understanding that this is just kind of part and parcel for who 445 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,760 Gen. Z is and how they prefer to 446 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,800 operate. That there's like this 447 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,560 enforcement potentially of what quote, UN quote is the right way 448 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,600 to work. And we see this already. 449 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,880 It might not even be with Gen. Z, it could be with millennials. 450 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,360 I'm a millennial who really appreciates flexibility and 451 00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:51,360 work. And I don't think I'd be really 452 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:54,960 happy if someone was like, no, you have to work this amount of 453 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,080 hours at this certain part of the day and there's no 454 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,840 flexibility in that. And so I could see there being 455 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,720 tension created from that also, which is really what you were 456 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,360 saying to around what potentially is seen as being an 457 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:15,560 effective way of working, which isn't necessarily, as we know, 458 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,280 even from the pandemic and the way of working totally changing 459 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,360 and being turned on its head. We know that there are people 460 00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:25,600 who believe that the right way of working is X and the right 461 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,760 way of working is Y for another person or from a different 462 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,320 generation. And I think if anything, we've 463 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,880 learned that there isn't really just one way of working. 464 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,280 We've even known this for those who are neurodivergent, that 465 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,520 there are different ways for people to work and the end 466 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,120 result could be the same, It's just a matter of how they got to 467 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:45,960 that end result could look totally different. 468 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,000 So I think that's reasonable. Yeah. 469 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,080 And if I can, like I always want to kind of point out some of the 470 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,960 stuff we found in our studies, like we did a replication study 471 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,480 from 2014 to 2021 and like we asked Gen. 472 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,400 Z to tell us the top characteristics of what best 473 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,560 describes them consistently across those two years, 474 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,240 different groups of Gen. Z Ers, but similar list. 475 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,280 Responsibility was one of the top characteristics or top 476 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,520 characteristics. Being responsible was one of the 477 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,080 things that they identify with most. 478 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,520 And sometimes people will say like, you can't be talking about 479 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:26,160 the people on my team, but I that also comes down to who do 480 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,440 they feel responsible to? It's not someone that they can't 481 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,440 trust. It's not someone that peers over 482 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,240 their shoulder. It's not someone that treats 483 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,600 them like a child. It's not someone that is 484 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,240 constantly micromanaging them. Responsibility comes and feeling 485 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:40,960 responsible to someone knows that. 486 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,320 It's a reciprocal relationship. And so if you want to leverage 487 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,600 the best characteristics and traits of Gen. 488 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,800 Z, you have to build an honest and authentic relationship with 489 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,720 them and show that you care about them. 490 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:55,400 And that's like with any employee group. 491 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,960 Yeah, but like with this generation, they need to know 492 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,880 that that's an honest and authentic relationship, not a 493 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,920 surface level transactional relationship. 494 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:05,880 Right, right. Where other generations might be 495 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,440 able to just kind of go with it and allow that surface level 496 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,720 transactional relationship to live and exist because they're 497 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,760 just making it work for Gen. Z. 498 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,840 It's a more critical, like must have in order for them to feel 499 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,120 satisfied in the workplace. Yeah, that's really interesting. 500 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,760 Yeah, super interesting. I mean, of course, many of the 501 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:32,040 listeners, most of the listeners are in HR or trying to break 502 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,720 into HR. And the majority of listeners 503 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,120 are either Gen. Z millennials. 504 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,280 Let me think that it's like 25 to 46 is the majority of 505 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,360 listeners of this podcast. So what is that? 506 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:44,760 That's Gen. Z and millennials right? 507 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,880 At this point, 46 is yeah. So when I think about that, you 508 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,920 know, it's also to your point, like some people are probably 509 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,200 depending on where we define like mid level in their careers, 510 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,280 they they could be decision makers, they could be at senior 511 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,320 parts of their careers are in senior leadership roles. 512 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,800 And I think there is a real responsibility coming back to a 513 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,520 critical word for Gen. ZA, real responsibility for 514 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,960 listeners who are, you know, thinking about ways that they 515 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,840 can impact their own workplace to really think about rather 516 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,240 than taking A1 size fits all approach to solving problems, 517 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,840 really thinking about who makes up their workforce. 518 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,840 How do we solve problems depending on potentially which 519 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,800 generations are represented? Because those problems could be 520 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,760 different, they could be the same, but they could look 521 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,280 different for each cohort depending on where they said. 522 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,920 And, and I just think, you know, hearing some of the research 523 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,160 that you've done and some of the, the outcomes that you've, 524 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,800 that your research has has realized in a way, it helps me 525 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:55,680 to even think about my role and how even driving engagement 526 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,000 within a team or within a department or company could even 527 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,360 look a little bit different. So I'm curious in your research 528 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:08,320 or in what you've seen, are there ways that HR leaders or 529 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,000 business leaders in general can better engage their employees, 530 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,200 especially Gen. Z? 531 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,640 Because knowing what we know that there is a very clear 532 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,280 delineation between work and home or work and personal life, 533 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,160 does engaging that population look a little bit different too? 534 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:29,880 Yeah, I think where the intersection of my work and your 535 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,200 work comes to together is this idea of like bringing human back 536 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,680 into things. Gen. 537 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,680 Z has lived their life online. They crave human connection. 538 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,800 They actually will constantly say, like, I would like to 539 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,760 connect with people in person. I'm a little apprehensive to do 540 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,480 so because I spent two years in my home like, and at a critical 541 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,840 time when they should have been learning interpersonal skill 542 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,640 development. And so I think that when I think 543 00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:01,360 about what what HR leaders can really do is like you and I both 544 00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:03,800 know that HR gets like a bad rap for just being like the 545 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,840 compliance policy people when in reality, like human is right in 546 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,960 the name and like they want human connection. 547 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,240 I'm not saying go be their friend, but there's a way to 548 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,600 have a good relationship with those people and to be an honest 549 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,880 and real person. I think about one of my favorite 550 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,040 HR people at a job that I had that was just like the nicest 551 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,360 lady in the world that acted. She was, she's definitely baby 552 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:27,560 boomer, but she acted like she was our aunt, like everybody. 553 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,040 We were a bunch of really young millennials in the office and 554 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,240 she acted like our aunt. She was like, you got a dentist, 555 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,760 you need a dentist, Here's a dentist, you need a doctor, 556 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,120 here's a doctor. Here's how you get your like she 557 00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:39,160 actually recognized where we're at in our lives. 558 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,640 And I was like, you 26 year olds need to get your teeth looked at 559 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,640 and you need to make sure you're like going and getting your 560 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,080 primary care checkup. So it's like this idea of like 561 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:51,080 care and human connection. And yes, though the work needs 562 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,360 to get done. But I've always been a fan and I 563 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,800 see this especially with this generation, the work will get 564 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,960 done if they they know the human that it impacts. 565 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,680 They need to know you before they can buy into you. 566 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,640 You can't expect to say, well, I'm the the senior manager of HR 567 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,800 and then be like, OK, your rules junkie, like what do you want 568 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,800 from me? It's this matter of like, no, we 569 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,840 Tracy's awesome. Tracy helps us and she's a real 570 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,400 person and a real human that I have a connection to. 571 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,960 So yeah, I do need to follow up about like that policy stuff or 572 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:28,880 whatever it might have been. There's this idea that there's 573 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,800 an opportunity. I think regardless if you're in 574 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,640 HR or you're just a manager, Gen. 575 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,600 Z wants human connection. We all do. 576 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,520 But we have to remember that they went through a really weird 577 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,800 period of time where they didn't get to have that human 578 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,000 connection at a pivotal time when their their young adult 579 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,400 brains are literally wired to learn how to develop 580 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,080 relationships. Yeah, that's so important. 581 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,000 I really love everything that you said. 582 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,240 And I was really giggling a lot at some of the the ways that you 583 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,880 said it and I I mean it. It really makes so much sense to 584 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,800 me. I think actually I'll share an 585 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,680 anecdote here too. I was speaking recently with one 586 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,240 of our employees who is a member of Gen. 587 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:16,520 Z and very successful recent college grad who went to a top 588 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,920 school and is in a very important and critical job for 589 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,880 us. And she was talking to me about 590 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,080 how, I don't want to say desperately, but in a way like 591 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,320 how eager she was to meet people in person. 592 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:37,120 We all work remotely and there aren't many people in her city, 593 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,320 let alone in her state. And she was like, I really like, 594 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,800 I wish that I had more of that connection. 595 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,360 I love what I do. I love the work that I do. 596 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,880 I love where I work. But I just, you know, there's 597 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,920 something missing for me. Basically, that's the message 598 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,800 that at least I received. And without putting words in her 599 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,800 mouth, you know, I think there is. 600 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:04,400 And I'm putting her experience with other experiences of Gen. 601 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,400 Z employees that I've either worked with in the past or have 602 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,520 worked with recently who have spoken with who really do 603 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,840 emphasize that need for in person connection. 604 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,920 And I remember one of the first times that she and I had 605 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,400 connected, she told me that part of her college experience was at 606 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,560 home and she had was taking classes online. 607 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:30,760 And I remember at least like just for me, when I got my 608 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,880 master's, I was doing it online by choice. 609 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:38,880 And I remember during COVID, I was thinking about how sorry I 610 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,720 felt for students in that present moment who didn't get 611 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,320 the opportunities that I had being in person for college or 612 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,880 for some high schoolers or middle schoolers or elementary 613 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,920 schoolers. And I remember reflecting on how 614 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,960 different I might have turned out if I didn't have some of 615 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,440 those critical years of development. 616 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,600 And to your point, those, those moments that were so crucial to 617 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,720 our development within interpersonal skills. 618 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,440 And you know, I think, I guess I think as an HR professional that 619 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,200 there are, there are always, there's always going to be a 620 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,680 reason not to meet in person because it costs X amount or 621 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,840 because it's a lot of work. And it, you know, requires all 622 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,160 of these logistics and planning and all that jazz. 623 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,360 But when I think about the ROI and the return on that 624 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,800 investment, it's probably so great, especially when we think 625 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,520 about who is going to be in that cohort of people meeting 626 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,480 together. So I mean, it really it did. 627 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:47,560 It reiterated for me that there is so much that someone who is a 628 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,680 member of Gen. Z is yearning for and that that 629 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,120 personal connection is so, so important. 630 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,280 So that is my anecdote there. Yeah. 631 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,040 And if I can, if I can trim in there for our friends that are 632 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,160 working for predominantly remote companies. 633 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,880 And it is, it's hard to be like, how do you simulate in person, 634 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,240 right? And I've worked for a fully 635 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,480 remote company and I was like, sort of, I was in HR, but I was 636 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,520 like people culture, right? And something we did was we 637 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:18,240 instituted like everybody got X amount of dollars per week to go 638 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,760 work at a coffee shop because it was just like getting out of 639 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,880 your home and interacting with humans, like the barista, the 640 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,360 other people at the other table or like to go to a Co working 641 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:28,840 space. Something like it was like I 642 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,080 called it like the get out the house money, like get out the 643 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,760 house and like go be with the humans. 644 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,240 Our actual HR called it like I forget like the coffee stipend, 645 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,000 but it was like I called, I always joked, I'm like, if you 646 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,760 didn't use your get out the house money, that's on you. 647 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,120 Like you cannot complain you. Like that one better. 648 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,200 But the but the other the other piece of it is managers out 649 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,880 there like you have so much control to like make this a good 650 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,960 experience for people and every young person, a young person, 651 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,800 but like John zero that I've worked with say that I have a 30 652 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,280 minute weekly check in scheduled for them. 653 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,600 I schedule it for 45 and I intentionally for lack of arts 654 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,720 mod to curse on this podcast. Yeah, yeah, why not? 655 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:07,920 I call it the shoot the shit 10 minutes. 656 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,960 Like we just, what are we talking about? 657 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,639 Silly nonsense like it doesn't like. 658 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,840 Because those 10 minutes I can sacrifice to know that for the 659 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,719 next 30, I'm going to have those young people locked in because 660 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,840 we've just spent 10 minutes building or building a 661 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,800 relationship. And that's an opportunity for 662 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,920 that informal mentoring that so many Gen. 663 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,280 Z ers want. That's an opportunity to buy 664 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,840 into what's going on in their life and realize that, like, 665 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,000 yes, the whole world isn't, it feels like it's on fire all the 666 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,960 time, but at least we have a little bit of a human 667 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,239 connection. And so like, I find those two 668 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,280 men, those 10 minutes at the beginning of a meeting to just 669 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:42,800 honestly shoot the shit and do nothing. 670 00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:45,360 And like honestly have friend time. 671 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,000 Not best friend time, but just like friend time. 672 00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:50,639 Talk about anything. Yeah, yeah. 673 00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:53,520 Talk about anything is so helpful because it also just 674 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,320 shows like I'm willing to give you some time and I never say 675 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,800 like, OK, 10 minutes is over. It's a natural progression 676 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,640 because young people and anybody really comes to a meeting with 677 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,120 their supervisor or someone and says, I move to get this done 678 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,720 because we have an agenda. So that naturally does 679 00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:10,160 transition at about the seven to 10 minute mark and to like, 680 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,200 let's accomplish the things we said we were going to talk about 681 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,360 on this call. But you have you, you're making 682 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:16,840 memories, you're spending time with people. 683 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,360 And I really do think that time is the most valuable asset of 684 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:24,120 any company. And yes, we we should be having 685 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,040 purposeful meetings, but people that are more connected to their 686 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,080 work. This is in like every study ever 687 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,560 done by like Mackenzie and PwC, people that are more connected 688 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,560 to the people they work with are more likely to stay. 689 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,520 And you don't find connection over spreadsheets. 690 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,880 I'm sorry, you just don't. No you don't. 691 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,280 I love that. I think everyone should add 692 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,400 shoot the shit time to their one on ones their touch bases. 693 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,280 I'm into that. I'm adding that to my 694 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,040 repertoire. Dude, what are you talking 695 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,280 about? Don't know yet, but it's gonna 696 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,080 be a nice time. Right, that's amazing. 697 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,840 Megan, I can't thank you enough for sharing all of your insights 698 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,480 and like the research that you've done, like extensive 699 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,120 research that you've done. And I'm super excited to 700 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,320 celebrate you when you have your new book come out. 701 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,960 And maybe it's out by the time this episode airs. 702 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,200 But either way, we'll make sure everyone knows where to connect 703 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:16,840 with you and learn more in the show notes. 704 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:21,960 But I just so appreciate you sharing more and I guess just so 705 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,920 those who want to hear it from you, where can they connect? 706 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,880 And of course the links as I mentioned, will be in the show 707 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,120 notes. Yeah, my website is kind of a 708 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,120 good hub. Megan M grace.com Megan is spelt 709 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,440 Meghan. I've got that extra H in there 710 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,840 cuz I'm Irish. My parents needed to keep it 711 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,520 cultural. But the the other places I'm 712 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,760 pretty active on LinkedIn and Instagram and threads. 713 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,120 But I do give you the caveat if you follow me on threads, it's 714 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,280 mostly just me talking about the TV I'm watching. 715 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,720 So if you need to turn your brain off, that's also a good 716 00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:54,720 place to hang out. But you can find me on social 717 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:58,560 media at at Megan M Grace everywhere. 718 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,600 And then we do have a website for our institute and institute 719 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,520 for generational research and education. 720 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:10,960 And that is institute for like the number 4jens.com. 721 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,400 And then we're also on LinkedIn. So we share kind of across those 722 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,840 more formally some of those things, but I'm pretty easy to 723 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:18,920 find if you know how to spell my name. 724 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,560 Love that. We'll definitely make sure it's 725 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,440 spelled correctly both in the episode info, in the show notes, 726 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,080 of course. But thank you so much and I'm 727 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,760 excited to be on your podcast as well. 728 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,520 So for the listeners who want to catch me there and hear more of 729 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,680 Megan's wise words of wisdom and other guests that she's had on, 730 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,280 make sure you check out the Hashtag Gen. 731 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,840 Z podcast. Megan, thank you so much. 732 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,200 Thanks, Tracy. Hey, just before you go, don't 733 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,280 forget to subscribe to the show so that you are the 1st to hear 734 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,760 when an episode drops each week and maybe leave a five star 735 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,360 review and a comment about how much you loved this episode. 736 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,160 Plus, if you have someone in mind who would really enjoy this 737 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,800 episode, make sure you share it with them. 738 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,720 Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you next week.