Welcome to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources
podcast. I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've
spent my entire professional career in HR.
Each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people
and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create
meaningful outcomes. Listen in as I share my own
experiences, challenge the status quo, and chat with guests
from various industries about our mission to bring the human
back to Human resources. Hi everyone, welcome back to the
Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources podcast.
Thank you so much for being here for another week.
Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you're
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Appreciate it in advance. This week we're going to spend
quite a bit of time talking about generational differences
in the workplace and specifically Gen.
Z, which I think we might have talked about a little bit before
on the podcast, but definitely not enough because the
generational differences and the number of generations in the
workplace is pretty significant these days.
So to do this I have on my guest here, Megan, who has heard the
line Millennials are killing the fill in the blank industry one
too many times and has channeled her energy into helping people
create more collaborative experiences across generations
since 2014. Doctor Megan Grace is a leading
generational expert whose research on Gen.
Z spans the last decade and has helped companies, universities,
and associations around the world understand generations to
work Better Together. Megan prioritizes understanding
the human experience while providing data informed insights
about generations. Guided by multiple studies.
Doctor Grace helps connect the dots between getting to know a
generation and knowing what makes them tick.
She is the host of the podcast #Gen Z and has co-authored 3
books on Generation Z with her new book Generations in the
World of Work coming out later this year.
When she isn't researching, speaking, writing, or podcasting
about generations, she Co leads the Institute for Generational
Research and Education. Doctor Grace Megan, welcome to
the podcast. Thank you so much for being
here. Thank you.
Yeah, we can go by Megan. I feel like when we intro with
the doctor, they're like, can you give me medical advice?
And I'm like, absolutely not. I mean, we can Google your
symptoms together. No doctor in education.
Still a very valid one. Our first lady, Joe Biden has
one. But it's wonderful to be here.
Tracy, thanks for having me. Of course.
Thank you so much. And as I had mentioned at the
top of the podcast, there is so much to discuss when it comes to
generations, generational differences, how they impact the
workplace. But obviously, it goes without
saying, as we read in your bio, that Gen.
Z, and especially given that this is a whole podcast for you,
is a major focus point for you, not only in your research, but
also in what you share and what you're passionate about talking
about. So maybe we have to start there.
Maybe we need to start with who is Gen.
Z? Who are they made-up of?
What ages are they? And what are some of the
differences that we see related to Gen.
Z? Specifically, yeah.
So Gen. Z, we use the the age range of
1985 to 2010. So when we're thinking about who
those people are in society in this day of 2024, that is
college students, like some high school students who are seeing
like they're kind of growing out of high school, predominantly in
college. They are the predominant college
population, but they're also that young adult new hire in
most industries. So think anything from 18 to
almost 3018 to 29. They're turning 30 next year.
If everyone wants to feel elderly, the oldest of Gen.
Z will be 30 next year. They're freaking out.
We're freaking out. Everybody's freaking out, but so
they are really squarely in higher education and higher Ed
has been hanging out with them for a little while and trying to
to pivot and adapt to this generation.
And like the generate the demographic shift not only in
like who they are, but the sheer number of them or smaller number
of them is the better way to put that.
But the, the corporate space and the world of work is really,
they were sneaking in there and they're pretty solidly almost 10
years of them in the workspace now.
So many of them are, I don't know where we put that cut off
of like approaching of their mid career, but some of them have
been in roles for five to seven years now.
And so they're, they're there. They, they have their workplace
habits and they are, I don't want to say shaking up the world
of work. They are doing what a new
generation does when they get to a new phase of life, which is
bring their own perspectives and their own values, behaviors,
trends, mindsets into those environments.
They did it in education. They've done it as they've gone
to college, and they're doing it again as they're going into
work. They're going to do it as they
more predominantly become parents and leading families.
And so that's just like the interesting thing when we're
thinking about this generation is it's not like they were
quietly entering, right? Like we actually have,
millennials are the most studied generation to date, Gen.
Z's like right after them. And that's just the advancement
of being able to study large groups of people and like
conduct demographic studies like we oftentimes do, right?
So with this generation, I mean, we know the age range.
We know that this generation is, if you're paying attention to
people within that age, they're very socially driven, not in the
idea of like, I need to have a lot of friends, but really this
mindset of like social change oriented and trying to make the
world a better place. Like that's a big motivation of
theirs is helping others, but they're also very digital, very
digitally defined generation. It's not the only thing that
defines this generation, but it is something that's unique.
Like they have truly, they cannot picture a world when we
did not have the Internet. They, they just can't fathom it,
not a single day. And so like, that's just like a
very different, like millennials.
I think we've been on the train of being like, technology's
good. Let's learn new technology.
But we could also be like, we knew there was a time when we
didn't have it and like, or it was very slow or it was more of
a commodity as opposed to like a necessity for Gen.
Z. It's always been a necessity.
Like they really don't have any conscious memories before the
iPhone. Oh.
My God. Wow.
Yeah. So like things to like think
about is the the way that technology is adapted alongside
them while they're also just developing what are normal human
life skills of communication, navigating the world,
understanding people, getting jobs, going to school.
Technology has been such a strong undercurrent for this
generation. And it's just really it's
embedded in their DNA. But they also recognize like the
double edged sword that technology plays.
So that's like just a snippet about Gen.
Z. I know there's so much more we
could talk about, but, and I know that we will get there, but
that is just like the really quick and the quick and The
Dirty of who they are. It's this, the young adult
generation, the latter teens, they're really in that.
I think that unique, malleable time in life, which is actually
when we want to study generations is when they are
developing and forming their, their personal worldview, their
identity set their values. So from a generational lens,
that's when like generational theorists like myself come in
and we're like, oh, this is the time to understand this group.
Like we don't want to do it any earlier because we don't, we
don't. I mean, when you're 12, you're,
you're not, yes, you're developing who you are, but
you're not fully there yet. A lot of it is the understanding
through the lens of your parents, your guardians, your
family members and like your immediate circle.
It's not till we get to those teen and young adult years that
we really can start to develop what would be like a
generational identity. That is so fascinating, thank
you for sharing that. I mean, I am still a little hung
up on this understanding that they that Gen.
Z does not really have a view of the world without some of these
critical advances and technology like the iPhone, like non dial
up Internet. Because I can like I think about
dial up, I can hear the sound. I distinctly remember what life
was like before having a computer and after having a
computer, which certainly was a commodity.
I would say it's just so interesting because I feel like
I might sound like the boomer that said millennials or this
millennials or that one. I'm like, oh, Gen.
Z is like this and Gen. Z is like that.
But actually that is kind of the beauty of having generational
differences is that we have our own generational identity, to
your point, and we compare ourselves to other generations,
just like as a millennial, I can compare myself to Gen.
X or the Boomers who my parents are.
And so it, it's just like really interesting to me.
And and given all the research that you've done, I'm curious
especially from a theoretical standpoint, are there
predictions on what Gen. Z will be like when they are
even they probably are already decision makers in business.
But I guess maybe more broadly, regardless of whether they're
decision makers, not what, what Gen.
Z will be like in the workforce as time continues to pass and as
other generations then are added to the workforce.
Yeah. So we're actually probably in a
really good place with having spent about 10 years thinking
about Gen. Z as young adults.
Like I frame them all kind of as young adults.
We have about 10 years of our understanding of them.
And So what we tend to do in yes, there's actual social
science that goes into understanding generations,
people probably, they probably think it's like a BuzzFeed quiz,
but it's it's really being able to like know how the human
identity is shaped. And then how do we do that as a
collective in response to society?
So like that's like the really quick and dirty of like how we
would understand a generation. When we're looking at Gen.
Z, we've been looking at them for about 10 years in this kind
of like lens of life and thinking about the things that
influence a generation. We tend to look at what are the
things technologically going on, What are the things in society
from like a social issues perspective?
What are the things going on economically?
And then what are the things that are going on like
politically and government wise, Like what is the kind of like
the geopolitical landscape that they live in?
Because all of those things are intertwined.
Like they're so coupled together.
So really we take a good hard look at life and what society is
doling out to them during those years.
And we say, how are people going to respond to that?
And like, when we've looked at Gen.
Z, there have been some really clear markers, right?
Like the technological advancement and how it allows
people to connect and be informed.
Like that's a big one for Gen. Z, like being informed and
connected in a very unique way that's different than previous
generations, what we've also seen that they've lived through
and what millennials like, we kind of feel like we're all
together in this one is like unprecedented times where we
kind of always feel like we're living through another
historical event every single day.
And a relative for Gen. Z looking at that and saying,
well, like 2000 year session happened, that wasn't great.
Started jobs in the middle of the pandemic that wasn't great.
There's war all over the place, apparently, like the climate is
on fire and we can't even go to school and be safe.
So like Gen. Z looks at the world and they're
kind of like, it's scary out there.
And a future is not certain that it's been present for like the
the last 10 years of them developing their worldview is
like what the world is spitting back to them is like, first of
all, it's scary out here. Second of all, it's expensive
out here. And so they're very like, it's
this interesting balance that they bring to it of like being
very cognizant of the fact that there's problems in the world
and that they have to take care of themselves to even be able to
navigate those problems. The other piece of it is they're
like, I don't want to say they're doomsday preppers, but
they are always kind of prepared for the next rainy day, whether
that's financially or trying to think about some level of
uncertainty. And when we think about like the
major issues that they tend to tell us that they care about in
all of our studies, it is there's this undercurrent of
wanting stability in their own personal lives, stable housing,
access to healthcare, stable jobs.
Like they're not asking for like everyone to have a starting
salary of six figures. They're like, I want to pay my
bills and be able to support my family.
Wild stuff. And then the other piece of it,
like while they, it feels like they're laden with like, what
sounds like a terrible adulthood, they also deeply care
about making the world a better place.
Like they look at the world and they say this is not so great
sometimes, but there's so much opportunity to improve things.
And I think when we we look at how they are really driven by
making the world a better place. I put quotes around that because
everyone's world feels different and helping people out.
What we, I think, are prepared for in the workplace to really
get to your question is that this generation kind of brings
the balance of nihilism and optimism at the same time.
This idea that like, let's be real about the big issues in our
world and let's also do what we can to make it better at the
same time. And I think that the that to me,
what I hear from a workplace perspective is this is a
generation that is if given the opportunity and engaged in the
right way, are going to be the people that are going to help
improve some of the cultural issues we have within our
workplaces. As well as just the opportunity
to make things more efficient and potentially operate a little
bit better. Because this is a very much so a
generation that's like, let's work smarter, not harder on this
one people. Right.
I love that. And not to cut you off, I'm sure
you you have more to add to that.
But when I think about that especially, I do think about
something that you said a little bit earlier, which was around
this, you know, kind of being the catalyst for a lot of
change. I'm, I don't think I'm quoting
you verbatim there, but I did an episode maybe last year,
sometime last year around how Gen.
Z is really quite admirable for their approach to workplace
challenges. In my opinion.
Because I think it was at that time that I was seeing a lot of
these trends that where people, especially those in Gen.
Z, were challenging the status quo.
And they were saying, hey, if you're not gonna change the way
that you interact with me and the people that I work with,
meeting businesses, leaders, etc, and you're not gonna make
this a better place to work, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go and
find something else. And I remember reflecting on my
own experience in some challenging environments in my
past where I was like, I've got to make it work.
I'm lucky to have a job. And, you know, jobs are hard to
come by. And I remember in that episode
thinking, well, that is such a such a drastic difference in
response to cultural workplace challenges.
And as a millennial, like I can honestly reflect on being told
that, you know, you have to respect authority.
And no matter what someone says, like if they are higher ranking,
like you're going to have to follow direction and challenging
the status quo could make could mean that you're making waves in
your job or in your experience. It could mean that you get
fired. And if you get fired, then what
are you going to do? And even though I am a
self-proclaimed challenge challenger of the status quo, I
think I can do that now because I feel more stable in my career.
But early on, I would never think of really making waves,
maybe like teeny tiny little ripples.
But I think Gen. Z is in very, very many ways the
antithesis to that perspective because they are like, well, I
don't have to stay here. I can go and find another job.
I can go and be an influencer. I can create my own company.
Like there's just such a drastic difference and I really applaud
them for that. You know, obviously I'm speaking
very generally here, but that's my my initial thought on what
you've shared. Well, and I think that Gen.
Z kind of has this mindset of like, you don't need me, like,
or I don't need you as much as you need me, right?
And like they do have more opportunity.
And it kind of just feels like they have this like absolute
unwavering spirit of entrepreneurship, even when
they're working within a company and they didn't start it and
they don't own it. Like this idea of improvement
and solving a problem. Like that's what an
entrepreneurial mindset actually is, is doing business to solve a
problem. And I think for them, they are
drawn to entrepreneurship for the flexibility, for the
freedom, right? Everybody wants that.
Anyone that's like, oh, they don't want to work.
I'm like, you have been lied to. I think that for Gen.
Z, they look at it and I don't even know if it's like
challenging the status quo or being disrespectful.
It's questioning because they don't they don't know what they
don't know. And so they might ask a question
about a policy and it'll come across as like, well, maybe we
were, maybe they were being disrespectful because they don't
want to follow the policy. But in reality, they're like,
hey, I'm new here. I don't know why this policy
exists. Can you please give me some
background on this? And people kind of take that
personally for whatever reason. And I'm like, don't take it
personally. They don't know what they don't
know. They're new here.
You at one point didn't know that either.
And I think for millennials, we were very much so told like,
show up, do your job, listen to the boss, follow the rules and
you'll be rewarded. Once again, we fell for the
scam. And that's not always the case.
Like it is not always the case. And Gen.
Z's like, I'm not going to be scammed by this.
I want you to be honest with me and I want you to be true with
me. And millennials.
We really did. And it and it comes from because
that model worked for our baby boomer parents.
The economy changed so drastically and the workforce
changed so drastically right around the 2000s and
the.likethe.com era, when technology really did shake up a
lot in the way that we thought about work.
And it impacted millennials and the economy shifted in this
mindset. But we were playing by rules.
Millennials were playing by rules that were designed for and
by baby boomers, the Gen. Xers.
It didn't, it wasn't disadvantaging them.
And so, like, we look at it and we're like, how bold of these
John's ears to come in and ask these questions.
I would have never done that. But that's also we're just given
a set of rules that really I don't think was designed for
millennials to succeed. And I love the tenacity of Gen.
Z because again, I've had to do a lot of self coaching, like
when students or interns or newer hires ask questions like,
why is it like this? And I don't take it as like, why
are you like that, Megan? It's more like, can you explain
to me the historical context of why things are the way that they
are? And then they might say, but
what if we did XY and Z and it saved us 5 hours a week?
And you're like, you're a genius, right?
It's it's this mindset of don't get mad about it.
Just answer the question and see where that conversation takes
you. But it's just, I go on and on
about like this misconception around Gen.
Z, it being like they want to, they want to shake up the
challenge like status quo and they want to break everything.
I'm like, no, Jen, they're not getting together.
I promise you, they're not getting together on the corners
of the Internet to say let's go make all our bosses mad.
Right. No, they just are asking
questions that we might not have asked before.
Or answer fresh fresh set of eyes we love.
We hire consultants for that. Yeah, it's really true.
We do. We do.
Every company pretty much does. So now that we know much more
clearly who Gen. Z is and what they're like and
more often than not in the workplace, what are some things
that create could create, let's say, because it doesn't always.
But what are some things that could create tension between
intergenerational workforces and generational differences in the
workforce? Because certainly.
I'm sure you and I can think of a time where we might have
clashed with a different generation because of the way
that we work or the way that we think.
So what are some of those things that listeners might want to
keep an eye out for? So I think for Gen.
Z especially, they are incredibly protective of one,
their self worth and their self-care.
And I don't think there's been the other generations who have
gone in and been like, I'm going to sacrifice my life, my
happiness and potentially my family to have this job.
Just seems like that's a heap of garbage.
We're not doing that. And they're doing it at such a
young age. And so again, it comes back to
like other generations look at that.
And they're like the audacity of the youth to say that this job
isn't important. And they're like, no, it's
important to me that 8 hours a day that you pay me to be here
and to care my nights, my weekends, not as big of a deal.
So I think the workaholic nature of some previous generations,
there's going to be this clashing of like, they don't
seem as committed. And it's like they might just be
appropriately and at a healthy level committed to their jobs.
Because this generation is, I think, much louder about the
mindset of like, I'm working to live, not living to work.
We're previous generations, we've been told you need to live
to work. You need to cut your teeth until
you're about 45 and you're the senior manager and you can do
whatever you want. Yeah, it's true.
And Gen. Z's like, Nope, not doing that.
And so this mindset of like, yeah, your Gen.
Z employees might sign off at 5 and you probably won't hear from
them until 9:00 AM the next day, unless they have opted into
taking on a flexible work environment where they might not
clock in until 10:00 AM. They might work until 3:00, but
then they're going to cry them out, work from 8:00 to 10:00 PM,
and they're going to get the same amount of work done.
And so this element, I just think that their desire for
flexibility, the element of fluidity, and then this
preservation of taking care of their human self is going to rub
wrong against some older generations who have just been
like, that's not how you get ahead in the world.
And they're like, I don't care about getting ahead in the
world. I just want a job and I just
want my paycheck and that's OK. Yeah, especially thinking about
that if an older generation is managing a member of Gen.
Z and even in a flexible work environment, if there's a lack
of trust or even from this older generation, really not
understanding that this is just kind of part and parcel for who
Gen. Z is and how they prefer to
operate. That there's like this
enforcement potentially of what quote, UN quote is the right way
to work. And we see this already.
It might not even be with Gen. Z, it could be with millennials.
I'm a millennial who really appreciates flexibility and
work. And I don't think I'd be really
happy if someone was like, no, you have to work this amount of
hours at this certain part of the day and there's no
flexibility in that. And so I could see there being
tension created from that also, which is really what you were
saying to around what potentially is seen as being an
effective way of working, which isn't necessarily, as we know,
even from the pandemic and the way of working totally changing
and being turned on its head. We know that there are people
who believe that the right way of working is X and the right
way of working is Y for another person or from a different
generation. And I think if anything, we've
learned that there isn't really just one way of working.
We've even known this for those who are neurodivergent, that
there are different ways for people to work and the end
result could be the same, It's just a matter of how they got to
that end result could look totally different.
So I think that's reasonable. Yeah.
And if I can, like I always want to kind of point out some of the
stuff we found in our studies, like we did a replication study
from 2014 to 2021 and like we asked Gen.
Z to tell us the top characteristics of what best
describes them consistently across those two years,
different groups of Gen. Z Ers, but similar list.
Responsibility was one of the top characteristics or top
characteristics. Being responsible was one of the
things that they identify with most.
And sometimes people will say like, you can't be talking about
the people on my team, but I that also comes down to who do
they feel responsible to? It's not someone that they can't
trust. It's not someone that peers over
their shoulder. It's not someone that treats
them like a child. It's not someone that is
constantly micromanaging them. Responsibility comes and feeling
responsible to someone knows that.
It's a reciprocal relationship. And so if you want to leverage
the best characteristics and traits of Gen.
Z, you have to build an honest and authentic relationship with
them and show that you care about them.
And that's like with any employee group.
Yeah, but like with this generation, they need to know
that that's an honest and authentic relationship, not a
surface level transactional relationship.
Right, right. Where other generations might be
able to just kind of go with it and allow that surface level
transactional relationship to live and exist because they're
just making it work for Gen. Z.
It's a more critical, like must have in order for them to feel
satisfied in the workplace. Yeah, that's really interesting.
Yeah, super interesting. I mean, of course, many of the
listeners, most of the listeners are in HR or trying to break
into HR. And the majority of listeners
are either Gen. Z millennials.
Let me think that it's like 25 to 46 is the majority of
listeners of this podcast. So what is that?
That's Gen. Z and millennials right?
At this point, 46 is yeah. So when I think about that, you
know, it's also to your point, like some people are probably
depending on where we define like mid level in their careers,
they they could be decision makers, they could be at senior
parts of their careers are in senior leadership roles.
And I think there is a real responsibility coming back to a
critical word for Gen. ZA, real responsibility for
listeners who are, you know, thinking about ways that they
can impact their own workplace to really think about rather
than taking A1 size fits all approach to solving problems,
really thinking about who makes up their workforce.
How do we solve problems depending on potentially which
generations are represented? Because those problems could be
different, they could be the same, but they could look
different for each cohort depending on where they said.
And, and I just think, you know, hearing some of the research
that you've done and some of the, the outcomes that you've,
that your research has has realized in a way, it helps me
to even think about my role and how even driving engagement
within a team or within a department or company could even
look a little bit different. So I'm curious in your research
or in what you've seen, are there ways that HR leaders or
business leaders in general can better engage their employees,
especially Gen. Z?
Because knowing what we know that there is a very clear
delineation between work and home or work and personal life,
does engaging that population look a little bit different too?
Yeah, I think where the intersection of my work and your
work comes to together is this idea of like bringing human back
into things. Gen.
Z has lived their life online. They crave human connection.
They actually will constantly say, like, I would like to
connect with people in person. I'm a little apprehensive to do
so because I spent two years in my home like, and at a critical
time when they should have been learning interpersonal skill
development. And so I think that when I think
about what what HR leaders can really do is like you and I both
know that HR gets like a bad rap for just being like the
compliance policy people when in reality, like human is right in
the name and like they want human connection.
I'm not saying go be their friend, but there's a way to
have a good relationship with those people and to be an honest
and real person. I think about one of my favorite
HR people at a job that I had that was just like the nicest
lady in the world that acted. She was, she's definitely baby
boomer, but she acted like she was our aunt, like everybody.
We were a bunch of really young millennials in the office and
she acted like our aunt. She was like, you got a dentist,
you need a dentist, Here's a dentist, you need a doctor,
here's a doctor. Here's how you get your like she
actually recognized where we're at in our lives.
And I was like, you 26 year olds need to get your teeth looked at
and you need to make sure you're like going and getting your
primary care checkup. So it's like this idea of like
care and human connection. And yes, though the work needs
to get done. But I've always been a fan and I
see this especially with this generation, the work will get
done if they they know the human that it impacts.
They need to know you before they can buy into you.
You can't expect to say, well, I'm the the senior manager of HR
and then be like, OK, your rules junkie, like what do you want
from me? It's this matter of like, no, we
Tracy's awesome. Tracy helps us and she's a real
person and a real human that I have a connection to.
So yeah, I do need to follow up about like that policy stuff or
whatever it might have been. There's this idea that there's
an opportunity. I think regardless if you're in
HR or you're just a manager, Gen.
Z wants human connection. We all do.
But we have to remember that they went through a really weird
period of time where they didn't get to have that human
connection at a pivotal time when their their young adult
brains are literally wired to learn how to develop
relationships. Yeah, that's so important.
I really love everything that you said.
And I was really giggling a lot at some of the the ways that you
said it and I I mean it. It really makes so much sense to
me. I think actually I'll share an
anecdote here too. I was speaking recently with one
of our employees who is a member of Gen.
Z and very successful recent college grad who went to a top
school and is in a very important and critical job for
us. And she was talking to me about
how, I don't want to say desperately, but in a way like
how eager she was to meet people in person.
We all work remotely and there aren't many people in her city,
let alone in her state. And she was like, I really like,
I wish that I had more of that connection.
I love what I do. I love the work that I do.
I love where I work. But I just, you know, there's
something missing for me. Basically, that's the message
that at least I received. And without putting words in her
mouth, you know, I think there is.
And I'm putting her experience with other experiences of Gen.
Z employees that I've either worked with in the past or have
worked with recently who have spoken with who really do
emphasize that need for in person connection.
And I remember one of the first times that she and I had
connected, she told me that part of her college experience was at
home and she had was taking classes online.
And I remember at least like just for me, when I got my
master's, I was doing it online by choice.
And I remember during COVID, I was thinking about how sorry I
felt for students in that present moment who didn't get
the opportunities that I had being in person for college or
for some high schoolers or middle schoolers or elementary
schoolers. And I remember reflecting on how
different I might have turned out if I didn't have some of
those critical years of development.
And to your point, those, those moments that were so crucial to
our development within interpersonal skills.
And you know, I think, I guess I think as an HR professional that
there are, there are always, there's always going to be a
reason not to meet in person because it costs X amount or
because it's a lot of work. And it, you know, requires all
of these logistics and planning and all that jazz.
But when I think about the ROI and the return on that
investment, it's probably so great, especially when we think
about who is going to be in that cohort of people meeting
together. So I mean, it really it did.
It reiterated for me that there is so much that someone who is a
member of Gen. Z is yearning for and that that
personal connection is so, so important.
So that is my anecdote there. Yeah.
And if I can, if I can trim in there for our friends that are
working for predominantly remote companies.
And it is, it's hard to be like, how do you simulate in person,
right? And I've worked for a fully
remote company and I was like, sort of, I was in HR, but I was
like people culture, right? And something we did was we
instituted like everybody got X amount of dollars per week to go
work at a coffee shop because it was just like getting out of
your home and interacting with humans, like the barista, the
other people at the other table or like to go to a Co working
space. Something like it was like I
called it like the get out the house money, like get out the
house and like go be with the humans.
Our actual HR called it like I forget like the coffee stipend,
but it was like I called, I always joked, I'm like, if you
didn't use your get out the house money, that's on you.
Like you cannot complain you. Like that one better.
But the but the other the other piece of it is managers out
there like you have so much control to like make this a good
experience for people and every young person, a young person,
but like John zero that I've worked with say that I have a 30
minute weekly check in scheduled for them.
I schedule it for 45 and I intentionally for lack of arts
mod to curse on this podcast. Yeah, yeah, why not?
I call it the shoot the shit 10 minutes.
Like we just, what are we talking about?
Silly nonsense like it doesn't like.
Because those 10 minutes I can sacrifice to know that for the
next 30, I'm going to have those young people locked in because
we've just spent 10 minutes building or building a
relationship. And that's an opportunity for
that informal mentoring that so many Gen.
Z ers want. That's an opportunity to buy
into what's going on in their life and realize that, like,
yes, the whole world isn't, it feels like it's on fire all the
time, but at least we have a little bit of a human
connection. And so like, I find those two
men, those 10 minutes at the beginning of a meeting to just
honestly shoot the shit and do nothing.
And like honestly have friend time.
Not best friend time, but just like friend time.
Talk about anything. Yeah, yeah.
Talk about anything is so helpful because it also just
shows like I'm willing to give you some time and I never say
like, OK, 10 minutes is over. It's a natural progression
because young people and anybody really comes to a meeting with
their supervisor or someone and says, I move to get this done
because we have an agenda. So that naturally does
transition at about the seven to 10 minute mark and to like,
let's accomplish the things we said we were going to talk about
on this call. But you have you, you're making
memories, you're spending time with people.
And I really do think that time is the most valuable asset of
any company. And yes, we we should be having
purposeful meetings, but people that are more connected to their
work. This is in like every study ever
done by like Mackenzie and PwC, people that are more connected
to the people they work with are more likely to stay.
And you don't find connection over spreadsheets.
I'm sorry, you just don't. No you don't.
I love that. I think everyone should add
shoot the shit time to their one on ones their touch bases.
I'm into that. I'm adding that to my
repertoire. Dude, what are you talking
about? Don't know yet, but it's gonna
be a nice time. Right, that's amazing.
Megan, I can't thank you enough for sharing all of your insights
and like the research that you've done, like extensive
research that you've done. And I'm super excited to
celebrate you when you have your new book come out.
And maybe it's out by the time this episode airs.
But either way, we'll make sure everyone knows where to connect
with you and learn more in the show notes.
But I just so appreciate you sharing more and I guess just so
those who want to hear it from you, where can they connect?
And of course the links as I mentioned, will be in the show
notes. Yeah, my website is kind of a
good hub. Megan M grace.com Megan is spelt
Meghan. I've got that extra H in there
cuz I'm Irish. My parents needed to keep it
cultural. But the the other places I'm
pretty active on LinkedIn and Instagram and threads.
But I do give you the caveat if you follow me on threads, it's
mostly just me talking about the TV I'm watching.
So if you need to turn your brain off, that's also a good
place to hang out. But you can find me on social
media at at Megan M Grace everywhere.
And then we do have a website for our institute and institute
for generational research and education.
And that is institute for like the number 4jens.com.
And then we're also on LinkedIn. So we share kind of across those
more formally some of those things, but I'm pretty easy to
find if you know how to spell my name.
Love that. We'll definitely make sure it's
spelled correctly both in the episode info, in the show notes,
of course. But thank you so much and I'm
excited to be on your podcast as well.
So for the listeners who want to catch me there and hear more of
Megan's wise words of wisdom and other guests that she's had on,
make sure you check out the Hashtag Gen.
Z podcast. Megan, thank you so much.
Thanks, Tracy. Hey, just before you go, don't
forget to subscribe to the show so that you are the 1st to hear
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Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you next week.