1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,200 I've talked before about how essential Into IT QuickBooks 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,520 Payroll is for small businesses. I've even shared that I know 3 00:00:06,520 --> 00:00:09,600 some people who use into IT QuickBooks Payroll for their 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,080 small businesses. And this is so essential, 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,680 especially if you're juggling HR responsibilities. 6 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,320 Having payroll, job quotes, time tracking and accounting 7 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,640 connected in one system not only saves time and reduces errors, 8 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,000 it also makes it easier to make smart decisions fast. 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,200 It's easy to see why it's the number one payroll software for 10 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,480 small businesses. And now it's getting even 11 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,520 better. 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Welcome back to the Bringing the 32 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,720 human Back to Human Resources podcast, the Replay series. 33 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,520 I'm your host, Tracy Turn Off, and I'm thrilled to have you 34 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,800 join us once again as we journey through the episodes that have 35 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,200 top charts around the world. In this podcast series, we're 36 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,200 revisiting some of our most insightful, thought provoking, 37 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,640 and transformative conversations with industry experts, thought 38 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,240 leaders, and practitioners. These episodes have made waves, 39 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,560 sparking meaningful conversation and inspiring positive change 40 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,520 throughout human resources. Whether you're a dedicated 41 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,440 listener who's been with us from the start or you're just tuning 42 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,680 in for the first time, the Replay series offers a chance to 43 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,200 dive deep into the core principles that guide our 44 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,440 exploration. Into HR practices. 45 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,120 So get ready to rediscover the discussions that continue to 46 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,400 shape the future of HR. Without further ado, let's step 47 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,560 back in time and immerse ourselves into the podcast's top 48 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,960 charted. Episodes let the replay begin. 49 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:29,400 Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Bringing the 50 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,520 human Back to Human Resources podcast. 51 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,520 Thank you so much for being here for another week. 52 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,000 Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe wherever you're 53 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,240 catching this episode. And if you're watching on 54 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,960 Spotify or YouTube, make sure that you interact with the video 55 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,520 in any capacity that you'd like. We are continuing the layoff 56 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,800 series today or this week. And I just want to remind you 57 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:56,160 that last week we covered the technical side of layoffs with 58 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:00,440 Jenna Dune. And she really helped us, I 59 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:05,760 think, to better understand just generally like what to think 60 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,240 about when it comes to layoffs. And we're going to talk a little 61 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,720 bit about layoffs further in this episode, specifically 62 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:18,320 around what it is to support or how we can support those who 63 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,880 have, quote UN quote, survived the layoff process, though how 64 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,520 to manage the process. We're also going to talk about 65 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:30,880 it, you know, like the the impact that layoffs have on HR 66 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,080 professionals. And so we talked a little bit 67 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,440 about some of that with Jenna, but we're going to go take a 68 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,960 deeper dive, let's say, in this week's episode. 69 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,800 And so really today's focus is about taking care of ourselves 70 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,200 while supporting others. And really this is like probably 71 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,520 something that you've heard before, but we can't pour from 72 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,880 an empty cup. We can't be 100% there for 73 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,800 someone else if we're not 100% there for ourselves. 74 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,560 Like we have to be feeling our best in order to help others. 75 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,600 Actually this just came up in a class that I take my daughters 76 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:15,480 to and I was talking to another mom and I said you can't be 77 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,920 there for your child if you are not there for yourself 1st. 78 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,320 And I really think it's true. And so let's start off with 79 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,200 self-care for HR professionals. First of all, layoffs. 80 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,440 I think I've probably talked about this before, but layoffs 81 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:35,560 take a huge toll on us as HR professionals because ultimately 82 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,560 we are human too. We have carry other people's 83 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,400 grief. So if someone's really, really 84 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,000 upset or really affected, obviously everyone's affected by 85 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,720 a layoff. But if someone is like very 86 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,400 deeply emotionally affected by a decision a company's made, that 87 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,760 affects us. And of course, I think we all 88 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,000 have been through an experience where we've had to layoff 89 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,080 employees that we didn't want to see go because not everything is 90 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,440 100% in our control. And it just can be very 91 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:05,920 difficult. And especially if you think 92 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,520 about like a mass layoff, you could be having multiple 93 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,360 conversations that are really difficult in, in one day. 94 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,800 And it's just a lot. And so sometimes we do have to 95 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,240 pull ourselves out and think about how we are taking care of 96 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,640 ourselves in the midst of all of that. 97 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,000 There are some things that you should be aware of in the event 98 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,840 that you are struggling with the, I don't want to say 99 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:35,560 consequences, but I guess let's say it, the consequences of 100 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:39,880 these layoff actions. And some things like that might 101 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,440 look like emotional exhaustion, sleep issues or having trouble 102 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,680 sleeping or falling asleep, feeling like you're numb or 103 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,960 totally like apathetic to certain situations and even 104 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,880 irritability with people who are closest to you, whether that's 105 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,160 family, friends or colleagues. And when we think about this 106 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,600 numbness to situations, I've heard a lot of HR people say, 107 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,200 oh, I'm just numb to this at this point, or I'm just numb to 108 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,880 that. That numbness is not really the 109 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,280 place that we want to go to, because when we feel numb to 110 00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:20,240 certain things, we potentially lose our humanity or we lose the 111 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,000 humanization of the person on the other end of that 112 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,920 conversation. So if you do at any point hear 113 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,160 yourself talking about how you're numb to something or that 114 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,960 you have a numbness in a particular situation, address 115 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,080 that within yourself. Maybe talk to someone who could 116 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,560 understand what you're going through, especially another HR 117 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,480 person, because that's something that you definitely want to 118 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,480 prevent and surprise like change, not suppress. 119 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,120 We don't want to suppress anything, I suppose. 120 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,280 But you know, you definitely don't want to feel that way. 121 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,920 And sometimes you might just need to make a career change if 122 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,400 you're feeling numb. It's just not really what makes 123 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,120 for the best circumstances for an employee who's relying on you 124 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,280 potentially. And some things that I'd love to 125 00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:11,760 share with you that can help you to alleviate some of the stress 126 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,360 related to actioning layoffs or difficult decisions. 127 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,560 And that's scheduling breaks between tough meetings. 128 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,000 So if you're laying off a few people at a time, then maybe 129 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,760 scheduling breaks in between those times or whenever you can, 130 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,320 creating an end of day shut down ritual. 131 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,880 So if you have been here for a while, you know that when I 132 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:37,000 first went remote, I would talk about, I think this must have 133 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,400 been like in the 1st 50 episodes or so. 134 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,920 But I would talk about how I would turn off like my lamp in 135 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,440 my office because it signaled to me that I was done for the work 136 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,760 day. And this was at a time when I 137 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,720 was living in a one bedroom apartment. 138 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,920 So it was very important that I had those rituals and 139 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:59,160 separations because when you don't create that separation or 140 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:05,880 something that is demarcating your end of day, it's very easy 141 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,520 for those things to spill into your the other parts of your 142 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,000 life. And so if you don't create those 143 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,960 boundaries, then it's very difficult to maneuver. 144 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:20,480 I think finding HR peer support, whether it's in a support group 145 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:27,320 that might exist or I should say communities like for example, 146 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,400 hacking HR is a wonderful community. 147 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:35,919 We had Enrique on for a few episodes ago and he is someone 148 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:39,320 that I would say leads a really strong community of HR leaders. 149 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,919 So that's a great way to A, like voice some of the things that 150 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:47,760 you might be experiencing and B, feel like you're not alone in 151 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:52,240 this and that you have a support or a network, a support group or 152 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,400 like a network of people who really get what you're 153 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,640 experiencing. If it's becoming something like 154 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,320 really stressful for you or you're really struggling, then 155 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,320 certainly I would recommend finding outside support like a 156 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,280 therapist or a counselor. It's not lost on me that a lot 157 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,160 of the work that many of us do, especially depending on your 158 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,800 industry, can be really intense. And so if you need outside 159 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,920 support, that's definitely something I would encourage. 160 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,000 And then of course, you know, and finally, it's kind of like 161 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,400 what I said before, creating boundaries between your work 162 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,760 life and your home life. Of course, I know in some ways 163 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,560 it's easier said than done. As I mentioned, I used to live 164 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:32,280 in a one bedroom apartment in the city. 165 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:38,080 And so I had to use my lamp as a, as a way to denote when I was 166 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,680 not working just by turning off the light. 167 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,920 And you know, it was, it worked for me, but it can be really 168 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:51,480 difficult to create those boundaries and feel the sense of 169 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,520 difference, especially when you work remotely. 170 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:57,440 I was actually just talking to someone about my own experience 171 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:05,440 now working remotely as a mother too, and feeling like I'm in 172 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:10,960 some ways not as focused as I used to be because I can hear 173 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,880 and sense and feel everything else that's going on around me 174 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:19,400 and how it can be just really difficult to work from home. 175 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,640 And the other thing that came up is that I was like, I just feel 176 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,840 like I'm getting up. I am throwing on like leggings 177 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,840 and AT shirt, which is totally fine by the way, and I'm not 178 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:36,360 really like taking as much pride in my presentation as I used to. 179 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,440 And even though like that's totally my own thing and it's 180 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,800 not necessarily true. Like I'm working out and I eat 181 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,160 well, I'm like I do all of that stuff. 182 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,440 So obviously I take pride in my appearance, but I share this 183 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,200 because I was like, you know what, maybe I need to like like 184 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:52,800 I used to work in retail and fashion. 185 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:57,000 I used to like, you know, feel really stylish and very like 186 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,040 very just like put together. And then now working from home 187 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,960 and being a mom, it's like all about convenience and comfort. 188 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:10,760 And although like that's also fine, I said to this person 189 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,480 like, maybe I need to just like wake up a little bit earlier, do 190 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:19,280 my hair and makeup like I used to do and like feel as best as 191 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,800 possible so that it doesn't feel like I have these like blurred 192 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,560 lines throughout my life. And actually I think it might be 193 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:28,480 working like I even did my makeup today. 194 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,720 And so if you're watching this, you might be like, oh, Tracy, 195 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,480 like actually looks a little bit different. 196 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:35,880 If you notice. Thank you. 197 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,960 If you didn't, then that just means that I'm like every other 198 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,160 person and I'm totally over analyzing my own existence. 199 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,840 So that's OK. But I don't, I share this openly 200 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:52,200 because I think it's very hard to be 100% for every other 201 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:56,120 person without sacrificing a little bit of yourself. 202 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,600 And so when you can realize like as an HR professional, as a 203 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,120 person, as a mother, as a father, as an individual, 204 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,880 whatever you are, however you describe yourself, that there is 205 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,560 a part of you that has to put yourself first to, and you have 206 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:13,840 to put yourself first, probably first in order to be all of 207 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,840 those things for everyone else. Then you're, you're actually 208 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,800 going to, you're going to, you're going to make it so much 209 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,080 further. And so I will be the, the first 210 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,840 Test of this hopefully. And all of my podcast 211 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:30,640 recordings, I look more like and feel more like myself because 212 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,000 frankly, it's also been really hard to record and find the 213 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,640 energy and the excitement for my podcast, which is so weird 214 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,160 because I love my podcast and I love all of you and I love 215 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,440 making this content. But you know, ultimately, when 216 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,160 we have a lot going on or when we're dealing with a lot of 217 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,440 difficult things, like for someone who's dealing with a lot 218 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,800 of layoff conversations, for example, can just be really 219 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,280 difficult. So be human, humanize yourself, 220 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:00,960 bring the human back to human resources, if I may, and do 221 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,600 things that enable and empower you to feel your best so that 222 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,480 you can perform your best in and outside of work. 223 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:17,080 So when we think about managing the process to layoffs, there's 224 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,800 so much to prepare. And I kind of talked about this 225 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,560 in the episode with Jenna last week. 226 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,480 And if you didn't listen to that episode, I strongly encourage 227 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,000 that you do. You don't have to listen to this 228 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,880 layoff series in any particular order, but I do think it's 229 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:36,520 helpful to hear her perspective because there is so much that we 230 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:41,320 can do to humanize this process and make the process as 231 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,920 effective and clear as possible for people who are unfortunately 232 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,280 in, you know, on the receiving end of a layoff. 233 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:55,120 So before any announcement or any communication is 234 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,360 transmitted, you know, there has to be some preparation, mental 235 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:06,720 and physical, because if there isn't that preparation, that's 236 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,040 when everything goes to crap. Obviously, we've seen companies 237 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,520 who have failed to prepare and they're also, you know, we, we 238 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,080 have to think about what that person is going to be 239 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:19,920 experiencing or what those people are going to be 240 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,160 experiencing. We should be thinking about what 241 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,560 they might need, what support they might need, and ensuring 242 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,720 that they're being told in a private space. 243 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,080 I can't imagine anything worse then delivering A layoff 244 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,160 conversation or laying someone off, let's call it what it is. 245 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:42,840 In a space that doesn't allow for reactions or emotions like 246 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,200 that probably sucks. So definitely making sure that 247 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,680 there is some privacy, especially if you're in person, 248 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,000 you have a ton of control over that. 249 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,080 If you're remote, it is a little bit harder, but do your best. 250 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:01,600 And when you are ultimately in that conversation moment, stay 251 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,800 composed and human, right? Like this is the whole again, if 252 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,560 you will bring the human back to human resources, don't be a 253 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,680 robot. Be prepared, but have a human 254 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,720 approach to the person that you're speaking with. 255 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,960 It's hard to do to be composed and have empathy, but you have 256 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,840 to find that balance. Sometimes it's in our facial 257 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,440 expressions, sometimes it's in our tone, sometimes it's all of 258 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,160 those things combined. But you really have to put that 259 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,920 best foot forward to be as human as possible and to really, 260 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,120 really focus on empathy and understanding. 261 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,280 Allow for the silence in the conversation, whether it's 262 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,720 silence on your end or silence for reflection from the person 263 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,760 being told. And certainly if you're in 264 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,920 person, expect big emotions and big reactions. 265 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,120 And if you're, I think I say that in person because I've, 266 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,880 I've unfortunately had to lay off people in person and 267 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,200 remotely. And I think when remote people 268 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,560 tend to like turn off their camera or they just kind of hold 269 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,480 it together a little bit differently. 270 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,160 Whereas in person, like the emotions are felt a little bit 271 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,400 more openly, I think because they don't have that space on 272 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,600 their own or alone to feel what they might want to feel. 273 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,840 And again, have resources ready. So we learned from Jenna that 274 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,480 there are all of these off boarding and out placement 275 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:32,640 resources that can be provided to employees who are being laid 276 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,360 off. And that I think is a wonderful 277 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:39,520 thing to consider offering to employees that you may need to 278 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,320 one day have this type of conversation with. 279 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:49,040 When we think about the follow up to those conversations for 280 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:53,680 you, it's a good idea to take a moment to just kind of like 281 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,360 pause, take a deep breath, go for a walk, whatever it is that 282 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,160 you might be feeling. Maybe you need to debrief with a 283 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,840 trusted colleague or a colleague who might have been sitting in 284 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,760 on that conversation with you. It's just like a lot when you 285 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,560 when someone when you know that you're terminating someone's 286 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,760 employment and they don't have a job anymore, Like that's heavy 287 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,839 stuff. It's This is why I say if you 288 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,480 feel numb to that, you either have to leave the profession and 289 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,319 find a different career or you need to deal with that because 290 00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:26,400 nobody wants to talk to a robot or be told by a robot that 291 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,680 they're being laid off. Like the human element is 292 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,120 really, really important and it just totally sucks. 293 00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:33,960 So it is OK if you need to feel your feelings. 294 00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:37,840 And then also, you know, in terms of that process following, 295 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,640 that's that communication things should be delivered in writing, 296 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,240 whether it's a severance or separation agreement or 297 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,960 termination letter, there's something that ultimately will 298 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,880 follow those sessions. So again, being prepared, being 299 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,640 as prepared as possible, partnering with other members of 300 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,280 the HR team, partnering with legal, partnering with finance, 301 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,320 whoever you need to collaborate with, that's something that you 302 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,200 want to be prepared to do ahead of and prepared with ahead of 303 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,280 those meetings where you are ultimately having these 304 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,280 conversations. And, you know, Jenna brought up 305 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,840 a great point last week, which was that there is sometimes 306 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,000 survivor's guilt from those who are remaining with a company 307 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,840 after a number of colleagues have been let go. 308 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,560 And some of those common reactions other than survivor's 309 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,000 guilt are fear that they're next, anger and grief for the 310 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:36,520 colleagues who have been laid off, a drop in productivity. 311 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,960 Totally, totally normal people are distracted, they're upset, 312 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,120 they're annoyed, they're afraid. Productivity is just not the 313 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:44,520 number one thing that's going on. 314 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:49,360 And then sometimes we also see people overwork because they 315 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:53,720 want to prove that they're worth keeping because again, this fear 316 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,400 comes up that they might be next. 317 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:01,240 So being very, very cognizant of those common reactions and being 318 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,480 open to having to work with someone or even talking really 319 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,800 to to be open and talk to that to those particular people who 320 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,400 might be displaying some of these things. 321 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:16,080 I think that's really important. I can tell you in my career and 322 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,320 experience, I have recognized things like this from people. 323 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,760 And I will say, hey, are you feeling OK since this layoff? 324 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:28,120 I recognize like this was a really difficult circumstance. 325 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,600 Do you want to talk about it? And I think that being open and 326 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,760 transparent that hey, this did just happen. 327 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,120 It sucks. You might be feeling a 328 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,560 particular way about it. Let's talk about, I think it 329 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:44,360 allows for someone to just feel what they're feeling and to have 330 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:46,640 a safe space to, to talk about it. 331 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,280 There also has to be a communication strategy here. 332 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,080 The leadership team, whether you are on the leadership team or 333 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,480 you are able to influence the leadership team they had, there 334 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,760 has to be communication to the rest of the organization. 335 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,760 There should be regular. And transparent and of course, 336 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:08,360 honest updates where necessary. When it comes to the 337 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:11,360 communication following a layoff, there should absolutely 338 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:15,280 be a very clear plan for what comes next. 339 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,080 There should be a direct addressing of fear, as I just 340 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,680 mentioned. Like speaking very directly 341 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,120 about what people might be feeling can be extremely 342 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:26,720 helpful. And when there's good news, 343 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,880 share it like there's. First of all, that's true any 344 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,200 any time of the year, but especially when there has been a 345 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,560 recent layoff. Sharing good news as often as 346 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,160 possible is a good idea to keep morale high. 347 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,920 And Speaking of morale, there might be a rebuilding of morale 348 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,240 actually. And so for you as an HR 349 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,360 professional, having small group check insurance programs that 350 00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:56,040 recognize efforts from teams or individuals, even team building 351 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:01,280 events or events that get team members connected, whether to 352 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,920 people they know already or to others, All of those things have 353 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,080 a huge impact on rebuilding the morale that understandably takes 354 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:10,920 a hit when there's a layoff process. 355 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,360 And then of course, future growth plans and mental health 356 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:19,560 resources and things like that do also play a role in 357 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,240 rebuilding morale because people need to feel connected. 358 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,280 They need to feel a sense of purpose and they need to see 359 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,080 that there is a bright future ahead for them because in most 360 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,200 cases there is like those who are not affected by a layoff 361 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,920 process are not affected for particular reasons, whether it's 362 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,080 their performance or whether it's their ten year or their 363 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,480 role on a team. So they need to feel really 364 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,720 purposeful within an organization and they have to 365 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,400 see that that bright light there and the light at the end of that 366 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,840 tunnel. So to kind of close this out 367 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,280 this week, just remember that these things are temporary. 368 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,320 Like the impact that is on the HR professional when in layoff 369 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,000 conversations, hopefully that's temporary. 370 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,640 If you are doing things routinely that enable you to be 371 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:16,200 your best self, and if you're doing things in those moments to 372 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:21,840 really like decompress from a difficult situation, remember we 373 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,520 are all human and we're all humans first. 374 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,320 And so that means you have to approach things from a human 375 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,360 perspective. And you need to also remember 376 00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:34,160 that you were human. And so you have to take care of 377 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,840 yourself and really make sure that you're at 100%. 378 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,800 Remember, you can't fill a cup, fill or pour into someone else's 379 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,560 cup with an empty cup yourself. So you have to really be able to 380 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,600 be at 100% yourself before you can help someone else. 381 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,120 So with all of those reminders, next week we're going to have 382 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:59,360 another series for the OR another episode, I should say, 383 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:02,920 for the layoff series. So please make sure that you are 384 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,880 subscribed so that you can get reminders and notifications when 385 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,640 the next episode drops on Tuesday. 386 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:15,080 And I would say take this week, depending on when you're 387 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,920 listening between this episode and next episode to create a 388 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,840 self-care plan. Maybe you're going to do what I 389 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,440 do and you're going to turn off the lights where you work to 390 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,280 denote that you are done with work. 391 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:27,600 Maybe you're going to shut your laptop. 392 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,640 Maybe you're going to take a walk after work so that you take 393 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,800 a moment to decompress before you go into your like, quote UN 394 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,080 quote home life, right? Create that self-care plans that 395 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,680 you're doing things that give back to you so that you can be 396 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,800 at 100% yourself. And again, next week we're going 397 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,000 to continue with the Layoff series. 398 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,120 And then the episode after that, I'm going to have a very, very, 399 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:56,560 very interesting guest on to close out the Layoff series. 400 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,320 Someone actually that doesn't totally believe in HR's 401 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,560 function. And I'm actually really excited 402 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:10,640 to have someone who really challenges us on the podcast. 403 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,280 So again, make sure you're subscribed. 404 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:14,800 If you like this layoff series, let me know. 405 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,480 You can always e-mail me at contact@hrtracy.com. 406 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,720 You can go to my website, hrtracy.com and submit a form 407 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,120 and let us know some feedback. And of course, you can contact 408 00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:29,240 me on Instagram too at HR Tracy. My DMS are always open. 409 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,160 So thank you again for tuning in to the Layoff Series episode, 410 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,960 and I will see you next week. Hey, just before you go, don't 411 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,000 forget to subscribe to the show so that you are the. 1st to hear 412 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,920 when an episode drops each week and maybe leave. 413 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,120 A five star review. And a comment about how much you 414 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:47,600 loved this episode. Plus, if you have someone in 415 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,080 mind who would really enjoy this episode, make sure you share it 416 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,080 with them. Thank you so much for tuning in 417 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,400 and I'll see you next week.