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Workforce. Welcome back to the Bringing the
human Back to Human Resources podcast, the Replay series.
I'm your host, Tracy Turn Off, and I'm thrilled to have you
join us once again as we journey through the episodes that have
top charts around the world. In this podcast series, we're
revisiting some of our most insightful, thought provoking,
and transformative conversations with industry experts, thought
leaders, and practitioners. These episodes have made waves,
sparking meaningful conversation and inspiring positive change
throughout human resources. Whether you're a dedicated
listener who's been with us from the start or you're just tuning
in for the first time, the Replay series offers a chance to
dive deep into the core principles that guide our
exploration. Into HR practices.
So get ready to rediscover the discussions that continue to
shape the future of HR. Without further ado, let's step
back in time and immerse ourselves into the podcast's top
charted. Episodes let the replay begin.
Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Bringing the
human Back to Human Resources podcast.
Thank you so much for being here for another week.
Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe wherever you're
catching this episode. And if you're watching on
Spotify or YouTube, make sure that you interact with the video
in any capacity that you'd like. We are continuing the layoff
series today or this week. And I just want to remind you
that last week we covered the technical side of layoffs with
Jenna Dune. And she really helped us, I
think, to better understand just generally like what to think
about when it comes to layoffs. And we're going to talk a little
bit about layoffs further in this episode, specifically
around what it is to support or how we can support those who
have, quote UN quote, survived the layoff process, though how
to manage the process. We're also going to talk about
it, you know, like the the impact that layoffs have on HR
professionals. And so we talked a little bit
about some of that with Jenna, but we're going to go take a
deeper dive, let's say, in this week's episode.
And so really today's focus is about taking care of ourselves
while supporting others. And really this is like probably
something that you've heard before, but we can't pour from
an empty cup. We can't be 100% there for
someone else if we're not 100% there for ourselves.
Like we have to be feeling our best in order to help others.
Actually this just came up in a class that I take my daughters
to and I was talking to another mom and I said you can't be
there for your child if you are not there for yourself 1st.
And I really think it's true. And so let's start off with
self-care for HR professionals. First of all, layoffs.
I think I've probably talked about this before, but layoffs
take a huge toll on us as HR professionals because ultimately
we are human too. We have carry other people's
grief. So if someone's really, really
upset or really affected, obviously everyone's affected by
a layoff. But if someone is like very
deeply emotionally affected by a decision a company's made, that
affects us. And of course, I think we all
have been through an experience where we've had to layoff
employees that we didn't want to see go because not everything is
100% in our control. And it just can be very
difficult. And especially if you think
about like a mass layoff, you could be having multiple
conversations that are really difficult in, in one day.
And it's just a lot. And so sometimes we do have to
pull ourselves out and think about how we are taking care of
ourselves in the midst of all of that.
There are some things that you should be aware of in the event
that you are struggling with the, I don't want to say
consequences, but I guess let's say it, the consequences of
these layoff actions. And some things like that might
look like emotional exhaustion, sleep issues or having trouble
sleeping or falling asleep, feeling like you're numb or
totally like apathetic to certain situations and even
irritability with people who are closest to you, whether that's
family, friends or colleagues. And when we think about this
numbness to situations, I've heard a lot of HR people say,
oh, I'm just numb to this at this point, or I'm just numb to
that. That numbness is not really the
place that we want to go to, because when we feel numb to
certain things, we potentially lose our humanity or we lose the
humanization of the person on the other end of that
conversation. So if you do at any point hear
yourself talking about how you're numb to something or that
you have a numbness in a particular situation, address
that within yourself. Maybe talk to someone who could
understand what you're going through, especially another HR
person, because that's something that you definitely want to
prevent and surprise like change, not suppress.
We don't want to suppress anything, I suppose.
But you know, you definitely don't want to feel that way.
And sometimes you might just need to make a career change if
you're feeling numb. It's just not really what makes
for the best circumstances for an employee who's relying on you
potentially. And some things that I'd love to
share with you that can help you to alleviate some of the stress
related to actioning layoffs or difficult decisions.
And that's scheduling breaks between tough meetings.
So if you're laying off a few people at a time, then maybe
scheduling breaks in between those times or whenever you can,
creating an end of day shut down ritual.
So if you have been here for a while, you know that when I
first went remote, I would talk about, I think this must have
been like in the 1st 50 episodes or so.
But I would talk about how I would turn off like my lamp in
my office because it signaled to me that I was done for the work
day. And this was at a time when I
was living in a one bedroom apartment.
So it was very important that I had those rituals and
separations because when you don't create that separation or
something that is demarcating your end of day, it's very easy
for those things to spill into your the other parts of your
life. And so if you don't create those
boundaries, then it's very difficult to maneuver.
I think finding HR peer support, whether it's in a support group
that might exist or I should say communities like for example,
hacking HR is a wonderful community.
We had Enrique on for a few episodes ago and he is someone
that I would say leads a really strong community of HR leaders.
So that's a great way to A, like voice some of the things that
you might be experiencing and B, feel like you're not alone in
this and that you have a support or a network, a support group or
like a network of people who really get what you're
experiencing. If it's becoming something like
really stressful for you or you're really struggling, then
certainly I would recommend finding outside support like a
therapist or a counselor. It's not lost on me that a lot
of the work that many of us do, especially depending on your
industry, can be really intense. And so if you need outside
support, that's definitely something I would encourage.
And then of course, you know, and finally, it's kind of like
what I said before, creating boundaries between your work
life and your home life. Of course, I know in some ways
it's easier said than done. As I mentioned, I used to live
in a one bedroom apartment in the city.
And so I had to use my lamp as a, as a way to denote when I was
not working just by turning off the light.
And you know, it was, it worked for me, but it can be really
difficult to create those boundaries and feel the sense of
difference, especially when you work remotely.
I was actually just talking to someone about my own experience
now working remotely as a mother too, and feeling like I'm in
some ways not as focused as I used to be because I can hear
and sense and feel everything else that's going on around me
and how it can be just really difficult to work from home.
And the other thing that came up is that I was like, I just feel
like I'm getting up. I am throwing on like leggings
and AT shirt, which is totally fine by the way, and I'm not
really like taking as much pride in my presentation as I used to.
And even though like that's totally my own thing and it's
not necessarily true. Like I'm working out and I eat
well, I'm like I do all of that stuff.
So obviously I take pride in my appearance, but I share this
because I was like, you know what, maybe I need to like like
I used to work in retail and fashion.
I used to like, you know, feel really stylish and very like
very just like put together. And then now working from home
and being a mom, it's like all about convenience and comfort.
And although like that's also fine, I said to this person
like, maybe I need to just like wake up a little bit earlier, do
my hair and makeup like I used to do and like feel as best as
possible so that it doesn't feel like I have these like blurred
lines throughout my life. And actually I think it might be
working like I even did my makeup today.
And so if you're watching this, you might be like, oh, Tracy,
like actually looks a little bit different.
If you notice. Thank you.
If you didn't, then that just means that I'm like every other
person and I'm totally over analyzing my own existence.
So that's OK. But I don't, I share this openly
because I think it's very hard to be 100% for every other
person without sacrificing a little bit of yourself.
And so when you can realize like as an HR professional, as a
person, as a mother, as a father, as an individual,
whatever you are, however you describe yourself, that there is
a part of you that has to put yourself first to, and you have
to put yourself first, probably first in order to be all of
those things for everyone else. Then you're, you're actually
going to, you're going to, you're going to make it so much
further. And so I will be the, the first
Test of this hopefully. And all of my podcast
recordings, I look more like and feel more like myself because
frankly, it's also been really hard to record and find the
energy and the excitement for my podcast, which is so weird
because I love my podcast and I love all of you and I love
making this content. But you know, ultimately, when
we have a lot going on or when we're dealing with a lot of
difficult things, like for someone who's dealing with a lot
of layoff conversations, for example, can just be really
difficult. So be human, humanize yourself,
bring the human back to human resources, if I may, and do
things that enable and empower you to feel your best so that
you can perform your best in and outside of work.
So when we think about managing the process to layoffs, there's
so much to prepare. And I kind of talked about this
in the episode with Jenna last week.
And if you didn't listen to that episode, I strongly encourage
that you do. You don't have to listen to this
layoff series in any particular order, but I do think it's
helpful to hear her perspective because there is so much that we
can do to humanize this process and make the process as
effective and clear as possible for people who are unfortunately
in, you know, on the receiving end of a layoff.
So before any announcement or any communication is
transmitted, you know, there has to be some preparation, mental
and physical, because if there isn't that preparation, that's
when everything goes to crap. Obviously, we've seen companies
who have failed to prepare and they're also, you know, we, we
have to think about what that person is going to be
experiencing or what those people are going to be
experiencing. We should be thinking about what
they might need, what support they might need, and ensuring
that they're being told in a private space.
I can't imagine anything worse then delivering A layoff
conversation or laying someone off, let's call it what it is.
In a space that doesn't allow for reactions or emotions like
that probably sucks. So definitely making sure that
there is some privacy, especially if you're in person,
you have a ton of control over that.
If you're remote, it is a little bit harder, but do your best.
And when you are ultimately in that conversation moment, stay
composed and human, right? Like this is the whole again, if
you will bring the human back to human resources, don't be a
robot. Be prepared, but have a human
approach to the person that you're speaking with.
It's hard to do to be composed and have empathy, but you have
to find that balance. Sometimes it's in our facial
expressions, sometimes it's in our tone, sometimes it's all of
those things combined. But you really have to put that
best foot forward to be as human as possible and to really,
really focus on empathy and understanding.
Allow for the silence in the conversation, whether it's
silence on your end or silence for reflection from the person
being told. And certainly if you're in
person, expect big emotions and big reactions.
And if you're, I think I say that in person because I've,
I've unfortunately had to lay off people in person and
remotely. And I think when remote people
tend to like turn off their camera or they just kind of hold
it together a little bit differently.
Whereas in person, like the emotions are felt a little bit
more openly, I think because they don't have that space on
their own or alone to feel what they might want to feel.
And again, have resources ready. So we learned from Jenna that
there are all of these off boarding and out placement
resources that can be provided to employees who are being laid
off. And that I think is a wonderful
thing to consider offering to employees that you may need to
one day have this type of conversation with.
When we think about the follow up to those conversations for
you, it's a good idea to take a moment to just kind of like
pause, take a deep breath, go for a walk, whatever it is that
you might be feeling. Maybe you need to debrief with a
trusted colleague or a colleague who might have been sitting in
on that conversation with you. It's just like a lot when you
when someone when you know that you're terminating someone's
employment and they don't have a job anymore, Like that's heavy
stuff. It's This is why I say if you
feel numb to that, you either have to leave the profession and
find a different career or you need to deal with that because
nobody wants to talk to a robot or be told by a robot that
they're being laid off. Like the human element is
really, really important and it just totally sucks.
So it is OK if you need to feel your feelings.
And then also, you know, in terms of that process following,
that's that communication things should be delivered in writing,
whether it's a severance or separation agreement or
termination letter, there's something that ultimately will
follow those sessions. So again, being prepared, being
as prepared as possible, partnering with other members of
the HR team, partnering with legal, partnering with finance,
whoever you need to collaborate with, that's something that you
want to be prepared to do ahead of and prepared with ahead of
those meetings where you are ultimately having these
conversations. And, you know, Jenna brought up
a great point last week, which was that there is sometimes
survivor's guilt from those who are remaining with a company
after a number of colleagues have been let go.
And some of those common reactions other than survivor's
guilt are fear that they're next, anger and grief for the
colleagues who have been laid off, a drop in productivity.
Totally, totally normal people are distracted, they're upset,
they're annoyed, they're afraid. Productivity is just not the
number one thing that's going on.
And then sometimes we also see people overwork because they
want to prove that they're worth keeping because again, this fear
comes up that they might be next.
So being very, very cognizant of those common reactions and being
open to having to work with someone or even talking really
to to be open and talk to that to those particular people who
might be displaying some of these things.
I think that's really important. I can tell you in my career and
experience, I have recognized things like this from people.
And I will say, hey, are you feeling OK since this layoff?
I recognize like this was a really difficult circumstance.
Do you want to talk about it? And I think that being open and
transparent that hey, this did just happen.
It sucks. You might be feeling a
particular way about it. Let's talk about, I think it
allows for someone to just feel what they're feeling and to have
a safe space to, to talk about it.
There also has to be a communication strategy here.
The leadership team, whether you are on the leadership team or
you are able to influence the leadership team they had, there
has to be communication to the rest of the organization.
There should be regular. And transparent and of course,
honest updates where necessary. When it comes to the
communication following a layoff, there should absolutely
be a very clear plan for what comes next.
There should be a direct addressing of fear, as I just
mentioned. Like speaking very directly
about what people might be feeling can be extremely
helpful. And when there's good news,
share it like there's. First of all, that's true any
any time of the year, but especially when there has been a
recent layoff. Sharing good news as often as
possible is a good idea to keep morale high.
And Speaking of morale, there might be a rebuilding of morale
actually. And so for you as an HR
professional, having small group check insurance programs that
recognize efforts from teams or individuals, even team building
events or events that get team members connected, whether to
people they know already or to others, All of those things have
a huge impact on rebuilding the morale that understandably takes
a hit when there's a layoff process.
And then of course, future growth plans and mental health
resources and things like that do also play a role in
rebuilding morale because people need to feel connected.
They need to feel a sense of purpose and they need to see
that there is a bright future ahead for them because in most
cases there is like those who are not affected by a layoff
process are not affected for particular reasons, whether it's
their performance or whether it's their ten year or their
role on a team. So they need to feel really
purposeful within an organization and they have to
see that that bright light there and the light at the end of that
tunnel. So to kind of close this out
this week, just remember that these things are temporary.
Like the impact that is on the HR professional when in layoff
conversations, hopefully that's temporary.
If you are doing things routinely that enable you to be
your best self, and if you're doing things in those moments to
really like decompress from a difficult situation, remember we
are all human and we're all humans first.
And so that means you have to approach things from a human
perspective. And you need to also remember
that you were human. And so you have to take care of
yourself and really make sure that you're at 100%.
Remember, you can't fill a cup, fill or pour into someone else's
cup with an empty cup yourself. So you have to really be able to
be at 100% yourself before you can help someone else.
So with all of those reminders, next week we're going to have
another series for the OR another episode, I should say,
for the layoff series. So please make sure that you are
subscribed so that you can get reminders and notifications when
the next episode drops on Tuesday.
And I would say take this week, depending on when you're
listening between this episode and next episode to create a
self-care plan. Maybe you're going to do what I
do and you're going to turn off the lights where you work to
denote that you are done with work.
Maybe you're going to shut your laptop.
Maybe you're going to take a walk after work so that you take
a moment to decompress before you go into your like, quote UN
quote home life, right? Create that self-care plans that
you're doing things that give back to you so that you can be
at 100% yourself. And again, next week we're going
to continue with the Layoff series.
And then the episode after that, I'm going to have a very, very,
very interesting guest on to close out the Layoff series.
Someone actually that doesn't totally believe in HR's
function. And I'm actually really excited
to have someone who really challenges us on the podcast.
So again, make sure you're subscribed.
If you like this layoff series, let me know.
You can always e-mail me at contact@hrtracy.com.
You can go to my website, hrtracy.com and submit a form
and let us know some feedback. And of course, you can contact
me on Instagram too at HR Tracy. My DMS are always open.
So thank you again for tuning in to the Layoff Series episode,
and I will see you next week. Hey, just before you go, don't
forget to subscribe to the show so that you are the. 1st to hear
when an episode drops each week and maybe leave.
A five star review. And a comment about how much you
loved this episode. Plus, if you have someone in
mind who would really enjoy this episode, make sure you share it
with them. Thank you so much for tuning in
and I'll see you next week.