1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 Welcome to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,840 podcast. I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've 3 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,240 spent my entire professional career in HR. 4 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,840 Each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,840 and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create 6 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,720 meaningful outcomes. Listen in as I share my own 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,560 experiences, challenge the status quo, and chat with guests 8 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,600 from various industries about our mission to bring the human 9 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,440 back to human resources. Hi everyone, welcome back to the 10 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,480 Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources podcast. 11 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,320 Thank you so much for being here for another week. 12 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,640 This week I have an exciting guest and actually I think every 13 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,280 time I have a guest it's exciting, but I like to say it 14 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,960 anyway because it feels nice. And so with me this week I have 15 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,440 Susan Snipes, who is the head of people at Remote People, a 16 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,760 global recruitment agency that specializes in direct placements 17 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,480 for US based and Europe based companies looking to hire remote 18 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:55,520 workers across the globe. Susan, welcome to the podcast. 19 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,800 Thank you, Tracy. It's great to be here. 20 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:00,920 Amazing. I'm so glad you're here. 21 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,720 And you know, global hiring continues to be a huge topic. 22 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,760 It's something that I think can often be met with either some 23 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,440 misunderstanding and sometimes a little bit of confusion. 24 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,520 And I say that because I have seen where people are like so 25 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,680 excited about global hiring, as they should be, if you ask me. 26 00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:24,800 And then I've seen people who have the opposite of an 27 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,160 abundance mindset and are worried that they are going to 28 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,560 lose their jobs, to quote UN quote, offshore hiring, which I 29 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,080 think is really a very narrow way to look at it. 30 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,040 Because when we hire globally, that means we're, we're 31 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,480 expanding our opportunities to learn from people in different 32 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,760 backgrounds and all of that good stuff. 33 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,480 And I know we're going to talk about, talk a lot about remote 34 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:52,800 people and specifically how companies can hire globally 35 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,560 without a ton of friction or red tape because of course, there's 36 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,520 a lot operationally that comes in to play when hiring globally. 37 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:05,480 So maybe we start with, you know, what remote People does 38 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,680 and you know specifically as an employer of record, which you'll 39 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,080 get into I'm sure what that actually means and what it does. 40 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:19,640 Yeah, absolutely. So Remote People is not only a 41 00:02:19,640 --> 00:02:23,560 an international recruitment firm that helps place remote 42 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:28,720 workers in 150 plus countries, but we also offer employment of 43 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,360 record services. And so you know, employer of 44 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:38,600 record is the employer for legal and tax purposes. 45 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,800 And you would partner with an employer of record when you want 46 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,760 to hire in multiple countries, but you don't want to have to 47 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,240 set up your own local entity effectively. 48 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,200 So we offer both the recruitment and the employer of record 49 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,200 services. Amazing. 50 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,280 I think it's really helpful to have that understanding because 51 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,840 I think I shared with you when we first spoke before recording 52 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,280 that my first experience even using an employer record has 53 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,200 been in the last three years and I've been in HR for over 10. 54 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,200 And so I, I just think it's probably very likely that there 55 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:18,400 are listeners who have only worked in companies who have 56 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:22,320 established local entities in various parts of the world. 57 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,680 And so having an understanding, understanding of what that is 58 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,960 can help. And my understanding too is that 59 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,520 creating or establishing local entities is quite challenging, 60 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,440 especially depending on the country you're looking to hire 61 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,400 in. And then that's like, is that 62 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,160 one of the reasons why people would potentially look at an EOR 63 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,960 or employer record versus establishing their own business 64 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,080 presence? There are lots of good reasons, 65 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,000 but you definitely hit the nail on the head with one of the 66 00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:00,840 reasons being that it is time consuming and expensive to get 67 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,680 local entities formed and set up in place in these different 68 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,200 countries. And a lot of times companies, 69 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,240 they just want to focus on what they do best. 70 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,120 They want to focus on their operations, they want to focus 71 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,360 on making money. They don't want to focus on all 72 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:20,240 of the administrivia and overhead of figuring out how to 73 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,240 get set up in different countries, especially when they 74 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,240 don't need to reinvent the wheel because they're already 75 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,520 companies out there that will hire your employees for you and 76 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:34,680 employ them for you and take away a lot of the administrative 77 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,600 burden. So that's part of it. 78 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:41,440 Another good reason would be maybe you want to hire 79 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,200 completely. I'm sure I'm gonna say this more 80 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,720 than once in this podcast, but hire Without Borders and have 81 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,280 have employees irrespective like regardless of where they are 82 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:57,480 located in the globe. Maybe you just want to be able 83 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,880 to hire the top talent wherever they are. 84 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,600 And so you may have one employee in Argentina, one employee in 85 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,960 China, one employee in Pakistan, one employee in Canada, and you 86 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,720 want to have the freedom to do that without setting up a bunch 87 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,640 of different entities. That's another great reason to 88 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,120 go with an employer of record. And it's also a great way to 89 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:24,120 just test a market too. So say you are wanting to build 90 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,720 out a sales team in Switzerland. You've never worked in 91 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,480 Switzerland before. You don't know how to reach the 92 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,000 customers there, but you need to hire local sales people so you 93 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,800 can reach the customers there. It's a great way to test the 94 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,680 market to see if that's going to be successful for you or not. 95 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,120 Going with an employer of record, since that's already set 96 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,440 up and already in place. That's a really good point. 97 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,360 It, it does make me think about what I kind of talked about at 98 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:55,000 the top of the recording, which is that there is such a benefit 99 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,960 to hiring globally. I see it as something that it 100 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:03,000 should instill a sense of pride in people when you work for a 101 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,720 global organization or when you have colleagues who are all 102 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,400 across the world, because I think this is one of the 103 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,520 greatest benefits of a room. You know, a more remote culture 104 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:17,760 these days where people can work from home and you can and you do 105 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,680 have the ability to hire the best and the brightest, as I 106 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,360 like to say, wherever they live, regardless of where they live. 107 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:29,080 And I, I don't know, I've seen recently where people and of 108 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,560 course there, there have been layoffs and there, you know, 109 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,080 there are always changes in the job market in the US and around 110 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,440 the world. But I've seen where people will 111 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,960 talk about global hiring strategies without this more 112 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,360 positive or optimistic lens, maybe because they've been 113 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,920 affected or they perceive to have been affected by global 114 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,120 hiring strategies. Because when you know, of 115 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,720 course, when there's access to talent anywhere, there are 116 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,040 certainly advantages in higher to hiring in different places 117 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,480 around the world compared to more expensive locations like 118 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,800 maybe some other parts of Europe or in the US. 119 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,680 That said, though, when we think about like this evolution of 120 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:16,680 global hiring and how much the workplace has been transformed 121 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,760 by this ease of hiring, let's say, especially with with thanks 122 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:25,400 to Eors, how do you see the landscape having changed in the 123 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:30,240 last few years? And maybe it's also like, how 124 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,720 has it changed and how will it continue to change? 125 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,640 Definitely. And also to speak to the concern 126 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,920 that some people have about outsourcing and people losing 127 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,840 their jobs. And I'll say that the number one 128 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,000 reason that we're hiring in other countries for people that 129 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,160 we're doing recruiting is because there's a talent 130 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,680 shortage. There's a shortage of talent. 131 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:59,840 Like, for example, we help AI companies hire AI talent in 132 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,600 multiple countries around the world, but not necessarily in 133 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,560 the US because there's a talent shortage here. 134 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,440 And so, you know, that's a common misconception that people 135 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,760 have is that it's, it's all about all about saving money, 136 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,440 although it is a cost savings as well, like to your points. 137 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,680 And companies are seeing that they can have that strategic 138 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,880 advantage by hiring in places with lower cost of living, 139 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,040 especially if people have the same credentials, the same skill 140 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,840 set. It, it does seem like a better 141 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,679 deal to go that route. Other changes that I've seen 142 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,320 just in the technology and in the way that we work, you know, 143 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,120 we have the project management applications, the instant 144 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:49,760 messaging applications, we have all of these tools that provide 145 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,200 the appropriate level of oversight needed, depending on 146 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,600 how much oversight you you feel like you need to have over your 147 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:58,040 remote workforce. You can have that now because 148 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,480 the technology is there. And so people are less worried 149 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:07,280 about accountability and, you know, having people not seated 150 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,720 directly next to you. You know, remote hiring in 151 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:14,520 general is on the rise. And something I heard a 152 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:22,720 recruiter say that what she's seeing is that in the US once 153 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:28,600 about a third of all people that they're hiring for have a strong 154 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,800 preference for remote work. And and then another third is 155 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:38,320 remote hybrid. And so you're, and you're 156 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,880 looking at, so you're looking at only only about 1/3 left that's 157 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:46,600 interested in physical in person work, but but there just aren't 158 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,280 there remote jobs there to support that. 159 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,440 So that's, that's where it's trending is more and more remote 160 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:56,240 jobs, more and more remote work, but it's not trending fast 161 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:01,440 enough for all of the employees who enjoyed remote work during 162 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,320 the pandemic and didn't want to go back and still don't want to 163 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,640 be back. And so I'm just seeing that as 164 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,680 well. Very interesting. 165 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:16,320 And I, I appreciate you helping us to see what you know within 166 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:22,400 this landscape, what is really generating this interest and the 167 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,600 need to hire globally. And when there is a talent 168 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,880 shortage, I mean, you can't just always work without like with a 169 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,640 -, 1 businesses obviously have to continue to operate. 170 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,400 And so if you're going to have the, you either have the option 171 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:43,400 of always being a person down or being strategic and finding that 172 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,560 person potentially in a completely different country or 173 00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:51,440 halfway around the world. You mentioned at the top of the 174 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,560 recording that or at the top of the podcast that one of the 175 00:10:55,560 --> 00:11:00,640 benefits to working with an EOR or having an EOR as a vendor 176 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:05,680 within a company is the are the legal and the tax benefits. 177 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:10,400 Can you kind of help us to understand how companies kind of 178 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,160 overcome those complexities between taxes and legal 179 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,240 compliance and maybe even payroll? 180 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,480 Because of course that's connected between both. 181 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,440 How does an EOREOR help with those things? 182 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:31,080 So rather than having to rely on a local, a local accounting firm 183 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:36,080 to handle all of the taxes and a local law firm to handle all of 184 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,120 the formation and another specialization of law firm to 185 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,200 handle all your employee relations issues, you can have 186 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,720 one point of contact. And in particular with remote 187 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:53,360 people's employer of record services, we have a dedicated 188 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,960 account manager. So people are getting that one 189 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,120 point of contact. And even just within the 190 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,720 employer of record, I know that's a pain point, you know 191 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,600 some people have with some of those other folks out there who 192 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,440 I won't mention. But they. 193 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,280 They will send you to just whoever is on the chat at the 194 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,600 time is who you're talking to and they have no context about 195 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,680 your workforce. It's whoever's on the the AI 196 00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:23,560 chat bot, whoever, whatever human jumps on there, that's who 197 00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:25,520 you get. And so we don't have that 198 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,000 problem at remote people, which is nice. 199 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,640 Nice. It does make me think about like 200 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:38,280 if you can share even an example of how a company maybe that's 201 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,520 worked with you or even it just in your experience in general, 202 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,520 if there's like a real world example of a company that's 203 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,840 scaled globally. Because again, to share my own 204 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,920 experience, I joined the tech company that I work for three 205 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,960 years ago and I had never had an experience with an EOR. 206 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,680 And we were already, we were scaling and I had joined as we 207 00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:05,320 had already established working with this particular, you know, 208 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,800 organization. And there are certainly, I think 209 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:14,440 the benefits are are really important and also understanding 210 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,760 that there are companies that have done it like bigger, really 211 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,080 big companies probably too that continue to scale globally. 212 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,280 So I'm curious if you have any and have the inside scoop. 213 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:32,000 Yes, I'll, I'll just name drop briefly just two, two names 214 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,480 people have probably heard of are IBM and Boeing. 215 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,400 And those are, you know, two of our customers who we've helped 216 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:45,240 to hire global talent and, you know, give them that competitive 217 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,280 advantage, so. We love a name drop here at at 218 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,880 the podcast that they're bringing the human back to human 219 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,080 resources podcast. Thank you. 220 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:55,720 Thank you for sharing. Love it, love it. 221 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,440 Inside scoop. And Speaking of competitive 222 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,920 advantage, I'm curious, like are there specific industries? 223 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,760 Because of course the listeners kind of span all industries and 224 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:11,440 all, even all types of HR roles. And I'm curious to know if there 225 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,720 are companies or I should say industries, excuse me, that are 226 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,680 better suited for leveraging an EOR to scale their businesses? 227 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,920 So I will say the majority of our customers tend to be SAS 228 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,280 companies. So they're in the tech industry. 229 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,200 And I think a lot of that has to do with the tech industry's 230 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,520 readiness to hire remote workers. 231 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,480 It's something that they've been doing for years and years now. 232 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,440 It's not new to them. There are obviously some 233 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:47,960 industries that are just from a practical perspective, there may 234 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,160 only be a very few number of position of positions where 235 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,480 people even could work remotely. Like the construction industry, 236 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:00,560 you're only going to have maybe, maybe there's some admin type 237 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,520 positions or some project management type positions where 238 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,840 some of the work can be done remotely. 239 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:10,560 But the reality is that a lot of that has to be done in person. 240 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,760 But in addition to the tech industry, I mean on our website 241 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,360 we have all the different industries that we've supported 242 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:24,840 so far and there's a good 20 plus industries listed out 243 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:29,440 there. So including healthcare, believe 244 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,360 it or not. So there are positions, there 245 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:37,760 are certain types of roles that you have to ask yourself, is 246 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,960 there any reason that this position would have to be on 247 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,720 site? Really Like is there really a 248 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,880 reason that for, for, for all the employers that are making 249 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,760 everybody go into the office? Do they really need to be there? 250 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,480 What, why are we doing this? These are questions we have to 251 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,360 ask ourselves. Absolutely. 252 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,400 I ask those questions all the time, every like every week. 253 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,600 I feel like there's another large company that's saying 254 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,240 we're forcing, and I use that word very intentionally forcing 255 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,320 our employees to go back. And like you and I, we're HR 256 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,240 people. We know even if we we're in 257 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,840 person, we are like hybrid. We know that requiring or 258 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,080 mandating in person work when people are so used to working 259 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,320 remotely these days, especially in the industries that you've 260 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:33,160 kind of already named, there's there's no, there's no world in 261 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,560 which that like recipient of that information, the employees 262 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,960 at the end of that decision are like super happy that their 263 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,760 employer is just telling them what to do. 264 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:48,640 Like, I can't imagine saying to myself as a, you know, in HR, as 265 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,520 an HR professional, I'm going to tell all of these employees that 266 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,840 they have to return to work five days a week in person and it's 267 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,480 going to go really well. Like, I just can't, I can't 268 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,960 imagine that, you know? So it does make me wonder why so 269 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,599 many companies are pushing for this and really kind of missing 270 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:12,880 the mark in terms of how they bring their teams into solving 271 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,440 whatever problems they feel they're solving by bringing 272 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,720 people back 100%. Conspiracy theory. 273 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,640 I this, this is my husband's conspiracy theory on this, that 274 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,960 they have so much real estate that they deduct, they deduct, 275 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,280 they deduct the costs for tax purposes and they need to have 276 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,000 people actually working in these buildings that they're deducting 277 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,360 from their tax like otherwise their expenses become too low 278 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,840 and then they have issues with their taxes. 279 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,520 That's the, that's the theory. I'm not qualified to speak on 280 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,560 this topic. It is a conspiracy theory. 281 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,880 I, I love that your husband has a conspiracy theory on this. 282 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,800 I mean, it's a very interesting point. 283 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:57,720 I don't know that it's so far fetched because I mean they're 284 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,120 the corporate real estate market right now from my understanding 285 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:05,120 is not so great because there are so many office buildings 286 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,560 that are just vacant and so many retail spaces just vacant. 287 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:09,240 That's really interesting though. 288 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:15,360 And I am, as someone who has virtually no experience in tax 289 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,520 law or anything like that, I wonder like, well, if they're 290 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:23,320 working hybridly or in a hybrid way, does that not count? 291 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,440 Like do they have to work 100%? Yeah. 292 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,040 Can't we give people flexibility benefits? 293 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:32,520 You know, right, right. Like why not be able to, why not 294 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,120 allow people to come in when on whatever day works for them? 295 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,040 Maybe you say, OK, at least one day a week you get your tax 296 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,480 benefit or whatever. If we're going to go with that, 297 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,560 I say we go with it. And you know, maybe you maybe on 298 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,240 that one day, that's when you're having like your all hands, your 299 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,600 team meeting. And but I mean, at the end of 300 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:57,040 the day, like I think that sometimes companies are, they're 301 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:03,320 pushing their own interests too hard on employees. 302 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,320 Because at the end of the day, like when I think about what, 303 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,480 what shifts we saw during like the COVID time, for example, it 304 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,920 was very reflective of employees being in the driver's seat and 305 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,280 employers kind of being on the in the passenger side and 306 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,840 allowing the employee to kind of drive the landscape forward. 307 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,960 And from that, we got a lot of obviously remote benefits. 308 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,360 Many people continue to work remotely and people have shifted 309 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:38,200 their their experiences have pivoted in industries as a 310 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,200 result of being able to work remotely too. 311 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,200 All of that said, though, I think now we're seeing, you 312 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,520 know, the pendulum swung all the way that way. 313 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,080 And now the pendulum is, well, they're attempting to swing the 314 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,360 pendulum all the way to the other direction. 315 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,000 And I feel like it's just a little bit more complex than 316 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,800 saying, OK, every single person has to go in the office. 317 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,240 And especially when we think about again, this like global 318 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,400 hiring strategy, if that's the case for these larger 319 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,800 businesses, then they have to think about how they engage 320 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:14,080 their global workforces. And if they require, you know, 321 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:20,200 in office work from let's say US or Canadian employees, how do 322 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,800 they? How do they then take that and 323 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,560 replicate it globally if they don't really have, you know, a 324 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,600 larger cohort in particular areas, especially if they're 325 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,160 using an EOR? So I just, you know, I think 326 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,720 it's, I think it's a little bit of a reach to expect that people 327 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,720 are just going to be happy doing whatever their company wants 328 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,680 them to do. I don't know, I feel a little 329 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:48,040 strongly on that. Yes, well, and, and it, and it 330 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,080 backfire is it will backfire because as more and more 331 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:58,240 employers move towards offering remote work, at some point, 332 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,480 it's, it's going to go from being just this awesome perk 333 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:07,800 that you're lucky if you can get to expected for certain roles. 334 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,560 It's going to be expected and you're going to have a really 335 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,200 hard time hiring people if you're going to put your foot 336 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,480 down and say no. This is on site in person. 337 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,560 Work totally, totally. And I mean, I get it. 338 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,000 I I've had guests on who have talked about, you know, 339 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,800 generational differences in the workplace and how remote work 340 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:35,320 and in office work, hybrid whatever are sometimes do vary 341 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:40,160 depending on generation or the generation, you know, 342 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,680 represented. And interestingly, Gen. 343 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,200 Z sometimes, you know, or more often than not, I should say, 344 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,200 wants all of the flexibility to determine what their work week 345 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,800 looks like while also having the opportunity to be in person as 346 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,040 often as they want and to be remote as often as they want. 347 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,400 And, you know, you have other generations in the work for in 348 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,520 the workplace who are kind of polarized on that. 349 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,160 It's like either fully remote or fully in person. 350 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,960 And then Gen. Z comes in saying, well, we kind 351 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,640 of want options for all of it, and we want full, you know, 352 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,960 autonomy and determination. So I think, you know, coming 353 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,240 back to it. Yeah, go ahead. 354 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,880 Please. Well, but a lot of times for 355 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,000 Gen. Z where they're working is all 356 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,440 they've known. So if they're working in person 357 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,760 and that's their exposure to being employed, that's all 358 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:37,440 they've known. So their objection to it might 359 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:44,880 not be as strong as a millennial that is like, look, I've done 360 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,480 both. I've, I've worked both, I've 361 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,680 worked remote, I've worked on site remote works better for me 362 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:56,960 and my work life balance. And you know, just I, I, I think 363 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,040 there, there is something there to like having less experience 364 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:08,760 in the workforce and less of a point of reference to be morally 365 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:09,400 outraged. No, I. 366 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:13,240 Love it. No, it's true. 367 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,320 I mean, I was just talking to my sisters in law about stuff like 368 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,200 this where it's like, you know, what is the benefit of 369 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,480 experience? And when we first start out in 370 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:27,360 our careers, we have we especially depending on the type 371 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:30,080 of training people have, they've gone to school for the careers 372 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,880 that they've had someone's in HR and maybe they've held 373 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,440 internships or whatever. However we want to apply this 374 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,040 that it's like, yeah, you have a certain level of experience and 375 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,120 you you kind of know what you want out of your career. 376 00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:43,200 You have a certain expectation for yourself and all of that is 377 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,360 true and you are a qualified individual. 378 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:52,000 And yet when someone has 510152030 plus years of 379 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,400 experience, they have all of that plus all of like this 380 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,440 knowledge and information that someone with much less 381 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,600 experience doesn't have. And so it's like, how do, how do 382 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:09,800 we appreciate the experiences that we all eventually gain 383 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,880 while actively putting in the years of tenure? 384 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,600 It's a, it's an interesting, it's almost like complex because 385 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,240 we all are in a place in our careers where we have a certain 386 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,040 amount of experience and we want something specific. 387 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,080 And then there will always be people with more experience who 388 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,120 also want something specific. And that's not always like a 389 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:33,480 match made in heaven. And so it's like, how do you 390 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,080 reconcile all of that? To me, it's like, OK, we'll 391 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,680 offer flexibility and everyone can be as close to happy as 392 00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:42,760 possible because you're never going to make everybody happy. 393 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,160 Yeah, that's tough. But an elusive, elusive 394 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,520 happiness. I know employee engagement, 395 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,000 happiness, fulfillment, like how do we get everybody happy? 396 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,440 All the buzzwords. No, but I really appreciate that 397 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,680 we've, you know, kind of dug into this idea of how the 398 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,040 landscape, you know, has changed and will continue to change. 399 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:09,320 And it does also, you know, make me think further about some of 400 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,000 the the complexities when it does come to, you know, a 401 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,520 company hiring internationally. Coming back to this, you know, 402 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,680 obviously from a tactical operational standpoint, they're 403 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,880 all those challenges that you mentioned, which, you know, 404 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,440 certainly enable companies to look in the direction of an EOR 405 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,920 to reduce that those challenges. But from like a cultural 406 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:38,240 standpoint, what are your thoughts around how companies 407 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,520 can navigate those types of challenges hiring 408 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,840 internationally? Like how is there a, is there a 409 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,080 way that companies can future ready themselves or be as 410 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,640 prepared as possible to bring on talent in various parts of the 411 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,120 world that where people have different cultures and beliefs 412 00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:58,680 and practices? Because that certainly has an 413 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,040 impact. Yeah. 414 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,720 So you still want to recruit for people whose values align with 415 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,400 your company's values and, you know, people whose work ethic 416 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,080 aligns with what you're looking for in an employee. 417 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,360 You still want to thoroughly vet people. 418 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:23,120 There are some things that there are certain realities that you 419 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:26,440 may need to be willing to accept and be flexible as a global 420 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,600 employer. You're going to hire people in 421 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,960 other countries where they have a lot more entitlements than we 422 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:40,400 have in the US, They have a lot more time off, a lot more 423 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,160 banking holidays. There may be religious 424 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:49,360 observances, depending on the country that go on for a month 425 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,320 at a time. I mean, there are there are 426 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,840 certain operational realities that you have to prepare for 427 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,160 depending on where you're looking to hire. 428 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:06,440 But All in all, just to be able to have 24 by 7 support because 429 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,080 you have people in all the time zones that you need to have them 430 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,360 in, you know, it's, it's great. And you don't have to worry 431 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:16,640 about, oh, no, we're giving like we're hiring people for this, 432 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:21,640 this third shift or this, this undesirable shift because for 433 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:27,160 them it is a desirable shift. And, and they don't have to work 434 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:32,600 at, at odd hours. If you're 24 by 7 or if you're 435 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,960 not 24 by 7 and you're hiring in a country and the hours are a 436 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,760 little off, the compensation that you're offering probably is 437 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,240 enough to offset the inconvenience on their part. 438 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,280 Plus you're still saving money depending on where you're 439 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,160 hiring. So yeah, I may have gone a 440 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,920 little off topic there. No, you didn't. 441 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,680 I, I think it's really helpful and actually it makes me think 442 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,800 of probably one of my last questions for you, which is 443 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:05,440 really like how we can give some advice maybe to HR professionals 444 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:11,320 who are listening and, and maybe thinking about how they look at 445 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,160 the future of remote work, how they think of the future of 446 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,280 global hiring. Because I think you've said a 447 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,680 lot of really important things that there's, this is all about 448 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:24,120 strategy, like how do companies best set themselves up so that 449 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:28,160 they can continue to have a competitive advantage and 450 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,720 continue to scale and, and grow. So with that, what advice do you 451 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:38,080 have for those listening and how you know especially and I should 452 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,480 say HR leaders and other business leaders in terms of 453 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,840 navigating this future of remote work and also just global hiring 454 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,720 in general? I'm going to say it again, we're 455 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,960 going to hire Without Borders. They are going to get the best 456 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,880 and brightest wherever they may be located on planet Earth. 457 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,680 And we're not going to stress about it because we have the 458 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:07,200 support of global recruitment agencies and employers of 459 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,760 record. Whether you're needing to hire 460 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,920 someone as a contractor or due to compliance issues, you need 461 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,360 to hire them as an employee. There are companies out there. 462 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:18,960 You don't need to reinvent the wheel. 463 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,280 You can leverage the resources that already exist. 464 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,120 You don't have to do this from scratch and just, you know, lean 465 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:32,880 in and find the best vendors with the best value proposition 466 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,040 for you and your organization and you'll do great things. 467 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,880 I love it. Hire Without Borders. 468 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,800 I think that's fabulous. Susan, thank you so much for all 469 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,880 of your insight and for sharing more about what you do and what 470 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,440 Remote People does. And so I'd love to give you the 471 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,880 opportunity to tell listeners where they can learn more about 472 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,160 you as well as Remote People. Sure. 473 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,680 Well, I'm not super important, but I will tell you that if you 474 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,000 want to learn more about remote people, you can go to 475 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,000 remotepeople.com. We we snagged, we sure snagged 476 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,160 that domain. That's right. 477 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,840 Yeah, I love it. imeanitsnot.net, itsnot.org, 478 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,760 its.com. I love it and you are important. 479 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,440 You are important. You are Susan Snipes, you're 480 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,280 important, everyone's important. Thank you so much for joining 481 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,400 the podcast. I, I think it was such a helpful 482 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,000 conversation. Actually, I think this is the 483 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,520 first time that we've even talked about EORS and, and 484 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,520 probably global hiring in this way. 485 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,520 So I really, really appreciate you educating all of us. 486 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,520 Yeah, it's been a pleasure. Thank you, Tracy. 487 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,360 Of course. Hey, just before you go, don't 488 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,400 forget to subscribe to the show so that you are the 1st to hear 489 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,920 when an episode drops each week and maybe leave a five star 490 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,480 review and a comment about how much you loved this episode. 491 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,280 Plus, if you have someone in mind who would really enjoy this 492 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:54,920 episode, make sure you share it with them. 493 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,840 Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you next week.