Welcome to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources
podcast. I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've
spent my entire professional career in HR.
Each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people
and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create
meaningful outcomes. Listen in as I share my own
experiences, challenge the status quo, and chat with guests
from various industries about our mission to bring the human
back to human resources. Hi everyone, welcome back to the
Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources podcast.
Thank you so much for being here for another week.
Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you're
catching this episode. And this is actually, I think
the first episode of its kind. I don't think I've ever talked
about profit sharing with a guest or really at all ever on
my show in what is now basically 5 years.
So this is a long overdue conversation and I'm really
excited to have Rob Gallaher on the podcast because he is this
is this is his bread and butter. This is what he's really going
to help us understand better and hopefully implement in our own
businesses and organizations. So let me introduce you to Rob.
He is the CEO of Gallaher Co. In 2010, he started his own
construction company and has since grown to lead five
companies across multiple industries.
For over a decade he's been he has been building and leading
businesses. One of the most powerful lessons
he's learned is the incredible impact of aligning employee
success with company success, which fueled his passion for
profit sharing. Through years of implementing
and refining these strategies and his own companies, Rob has
seen first hand how profit sharing can transform a
workplace in fostering collaboration, boosting
motivation, and ultimately driving significant growth.
He recently distilled this experience and insight into his
book Profit Sharing the Power of Shared Success.
And in July, he launched an online course teaching others
how to set up profit sharing in their own organizations.
So Rob, thank you so much for bringing all of your wisdom and
insight to us. This no.
Thank you Tracy for having me on.
I'm passionate about the subject and I appreciate the opportunity
to talk about it. Of course.
Well, we're really glad to have you on.
And like I said, this has not ever been a subject talked about
on the podcast, which means that there is a real opportunity for
everyone listening to learn something new or maybe even be
challenged a little bit on their own beliefs around profit
sharing, whether they've experienced or kind of
interacted with this type of business strategy or not before.
So maybe what we have to do, considering this is a new topic
for the show, is first understand and talk about what
profit sharing really is. And so I'll pass to you since
you are, you know, this is really your domain.
Yeah, well, the best understanding of profit sharing
starts with the problem you're trying to solve.
And my my particular story was I was three years self-employed.
I had about 30 team members, two companies.
And my problem was I was struggling with the with this
idea that my employees didn't think care or work like I did.
And so I started this journey of self education.
I was talking to other business owners about what they were
doing, about this problem. I started reading books and I
really want to solve it. You know, I was, I was
micromanaging. I was horrible at delegating
because I didn't trust anyone because they didn't think like I
did. And I double checked all their
work because they didn't care like I did.
And then they didn't do it fast enough or good enough because it
didn't work like I did. And these are the, this was the
major complaint that I had. It's also the major complaint
that I found from every business owner that I was reaching out to
and speaking with. And so in my journey to solve
this problem, this idea of profit sharing came across my
desk and it was a, it was a, it was a page and a half of the
book that I was reading where this author was talking about
it, that he did it in certain ways across a couple of his
departments in his company. And but there was not a lot of
information. So I really dug into this idea
what profit sharing was like. What it is is, you know, it's
pretty simple. It's, it's basically sharing the
profit of an organization to the people that are responsible for
making that profit. But the how to, to do it is the
challenging part. And that's the, that's the, the
problem that I couldn't find the solution to.
So I could not find a how to guide, I couldn't find
spreadsheets, I couldn't find metrics on how to do it or to
base it off of gross profit or net profit or revenue, what
percentage to give away, who gets it in your organization?
You know, all these questions start to come up when you sit
down with a blank piece of paper and your pen and you start to
write out your profit sharing program.
You would get stuck really, really fast.
So in my particular instance, I, you know, discovered this idea
and I read everything I could about it, which wasn't a lot of
help because there wasn't there was no how to about it was it
was all theory about profit sharing.
I brought two of my leaders in and we I sat them down one day
and they said I want to do this idea of profit sharing.
I'm going to try this idea out. I think that would really bridge
the gap between ownership and the team in aligning our goals
to accomplish what a business is supposed to do every month is
profit. And then when you have profit,
you can invest in your team. You can invest in equipment, you
can serve more customers. Nothing good happens without
profit first, right? You have to have profit, Yeah.
So if there's no money in the bank, you can't move any needles
on any spectrum, human or corporate or financial or
anything. So we sat down that day and we
started going through all these questions and we had all our
PNL's printed out. We had our balance sheet there.
We had all these, these metrics, you know, your, your traditional
metrics of the business. And we came up with by basically
throwing in some darts and a black room at a dart board.
We didn't know where it was our first profit sharing program.
And then that next quarter we cut our first profit sharing
checks and it was a total disaster.
The I spent thousands of dollars and I as the owner, we didn't
see, feel or got anything different as far as an ROI on
this program, which we, you know, was a, an investment into
our future and investment into our team.
And so that started that we went back to the drawing board.
We spoke to the team members that got the profit sharing.
You know, we got more people involved on figuring out what it
was supposed to do, what the, what the owner wanted myself and
what they were looking for and how we were going to tie those
two metrics together to create this one body of people that
were thinking, caring and working the same.
And that's the journey that I went on.
And that's where I'm at today. I've, I've, I perfected this
system. I've put it into play and I've
seen the results. It's proven and the growth in
the numbers speak for themselves.
My retention speaks for itself and I want other business owners
to know this. I The value that is provided to
my life is immense. The value it's provided to my
team members lives is immense, and I haven't seen anything more
powerful in business than a unified team that goes out every
day and wins. I love that last line that you
just shared. And I totally agree.
There's something really powerful about about that
feeling. And we've all, hopefully we all
have been a part of a team where we're like, oh, yeah, we're
doing this together. And I have in the past made the
mistake of leaving a team like that.
And then you realize not every team is like that.
And you're like, what the heck Did I just, you know.
But at the same time, I think there is something motivational
about that for all of us that we can create that in our own
organizations. And you know, when you and I had
first, first of all, thank you for going over what profit
sharing is in essence. And when you and I had first
spoken a week or so ago before recording, it made me think like
what other organizations that are like household names, so to
speak, engage in this profit sharing type of practice.
And I learned a lot. I had no idea that companies
like Procter and Gamble, Southwest Airlines and other
handful of other companies engage in profit sharing.
And again, household names here and they do things totally
differently. Procter and Gamble, they look
at, you know, the total annual profits and then they divide
them based on role and tenure. And then Southwest Airlines,
this is based on an article at least from last year.
So if hopefully it's still accurate, but forgive me if it's
not. Southwest Airlines, they make
the percentage that is paid out as part of the profit sharing
plan a part of the annualized salary.
So it's kind of, you know, to me that is almost similar to a
Commission in that it's baked into your total compensation.
But it does the same thing in the sense that you are motivated
by the over by the company's overall achievement and that you
are effectively like a joint owner.
You, you see your role at those companies and your own companies
as being within the same level of ownership, even if the
percentages are different, as someone else, as the owner, as
the CEO. And I think that there's
something really powerful about that.
And I would imagine, because this was a question that I had
that I had to do some research on.
I would imagine that there are some listeners who maybe work
for companies who are Esop's like employee stock ownership
plan based companies or or companies that do provide stock
incentives to their employees that maybe there's a question
like what's the difference? Like you know, the stock
ownership plan is similar to profit sharing.
And actually, while that might be true, I did some research and
I found that really the most significant differences are that
the profit sharing setup and components really rely on the
profits. And so you're getting these
realized profits in the moment because it's whether it's after
the annual profits or it's quarterly.
You know, to your point, every company kind of does things
differently and there wasn't a playbook when you were trying to
create this for yourself and your own business.
But that's a pretty significant difference compared to the an
employee stock ownership plan because that is based on the
valuation of the company and not necessarily the profit.
Of course, the greater the profits, the greater the
valuation, but it is that to me, that's actually a pretty
significant difference while both work to motivate and create
ownership amongst the team. And so I'm curious, you know, in
your own experience with profit sharing, that intrinsic value in
terms of the motivation, the ownership, how has that
transformed collaboration and the way that your team works
together? Do you see fewer friction
points? Do you see more of the
camaraderie and the collaboration?
So I see a lot of things and then over the years I've seen a
lot of things that I didn't expect.
And you know, I can, we could talk about probably 10 different
things. But one thing that I think, you
know, in a, in a, as ahr human resource background that you
have and, and you probably have a lot of human resource managers
listening. But so in that point, like you
have a team, let's say you have 6 people on and let's say you're
a plumbing company, right? So you have the owner, you got a
dispatcher, you have some estimators, project manager,
maybe an office manager. At GM, we have this group of
leaders that are all in charge of, you know, getting
information from the customer, estimating the job and
dispatching the plumbers and then the invoicing, right?
So the whole operation of what a company would do.
And you can use this example for a flower shop or bakery or, or
any kind of company. But what I've seen is that this
group of six people, you know, as the company grows, you have a
profit sharing program in there and you'll see growth happen
because everybody starts to become united.
They start to understand what the goal is everyday and how to
sustain that goal, right? People get treated better
because now it's about, OK, so we made a mistake today.
We can learn from that mistake. Let's make sure everybody knows
about this, learns the same lesson so it doesn't repeat
itself in the future. I've seen a team root out the
donkeys from the from the stallion stable, right.
Stallions don't want to run with donkeys.
You know, eagles don't want to fly with Turkey.
So when you have a bad apple somewhere in there and the whole
team's on profit sharing in this one person's dragging the team
down and hurting profit, which hurts their profit sharing
check. They will help the owner or the
human resource manager get that person out of the building.
And you know, these are things that I didn't think about going
on. I've seen people think outside
the box and bring ideas that have been fantastic, right?
They're not just clocking and clocking out anymore.
They're actually thinking about how can I make a difference?
How can we make more profit? You know, so someone gets a
profit sharing check for $1000. The first thought is how do we
do this next month and the month after that?
How do we make them bigger and more consistent?
And so they'll start having their own internal dialogue
about repeating this success over and over and over again.
And as a business owner, one of the stresses we deal with every
day is payroll every week or every two weeks, however you're
set up. And then how you going to
sustain this, excuse me, long term, right.
We all have these flashes in the pan of profit and success, but
maybe that was a certain customer that came in with a big
order and then now we need to go find the next customer.
And how do you going to continue this machine that you have to
feed that you built? So profit sharing has solved
tons of of those issues that business owners deal with.
And it's created this sense for myself.
One of the huge things for myself that I did not see coming
was I don't feel alone like I did before.
I don't feel like it's me at the top cracking the web pulling
people up or at the bottom trying to push people up all the
time. I have team members that are
pulling with me and pushing with me, other team members to be in
the same direction and getting them on board without me having
to do it or out me having to lead the charge.
So there's a, there's a ton of things that you know, you can
imagine, you know, the biggest complaint business owners have
is the whole thinking, caring and working like a business
owner. Well, the reason why your
employees don't do that is because they don't get paid like
a business owner does, right? They don't have the same skin in
the game. That business is a job to them.
It's not their identity like a business owner has.
So when you can bridge that gap and, and create this kind of
self-employed mentality among the team and then paint the
picture that the team wins together or dies together,
right? Tom Brady, you know that we all
know Tom Brady is did not win those football games by himself
and he's a great football player.
But if there was 11 Tom Brady's on that field playing this game,
they would have lost every single game, right?
So you have to have people's different strengths and
weaknesses in the right position and the right timing and the
right training as a team. They won all those games and all
those Super Bowls. And that's what you're trying to
create in your business as the owner, is that teamwork, putting
people on the right seat on the bus to drive it forward every
single day. Absolutely.
And there's so much value in what you've just shared around
this sense of such deeply felt mutual ownership.
And it's something that I, in various episodes across my show,
I've talked about that, that when you drive ownership, it's
not just accountability, but actual ownership.
That's when you see people working differently and working
differently together. And when I think about some of
the HR problems that naturally come to mind for someone like me
and probably many of the listeners too, around how do you
navigate poor performance? What do you do?
I mean, to me into intuitively, it makes me think, well, the
poor performers are so obvious because you have all of these
other people who are so with it and in the game and focused on,
on winning together, that then the person to your point, who
isn't pulling their weight is potentially kind of an outcast
because they're not, they're not doing what they need to do.
And then it's like, well, they're going to take a, a cut
of the profits that we're working toward.
And so I imagine it's, it's like any other underperformers
circumstance where, you know, the the team and the managers
work to, you know, either get them to be where they need to be
or to resolve the issue entirely.
And then it also makes me think about how people are rewarded
when they are are going above and beyond and they are, you
know, clearly driven by being, you know, having the sense of
ownership in a company. Those people, even in
organizations where profit sharing is not established, are
generally hopefully well rewarded.
But I would imagine in a profit sharing based organization that
they're able to be rewarded even more fruitfully because of the
impact that they have or the promotions that they get.
And you did also mention kind of at the top of the recording that
your retention is, is fundamental, like you've been
able to retain your team in such a way that is generally quite
difficult to do for companies because you know what, what's in
it for them. And so I'm sure there's a,
there's a really important story there too.
Yeah. So a couple things for your
listeners. We still pay a competitive wage
in our marketplace. So this is not a low base salary
plus Commission type role. So where the retention comes in
is that, you know, you have a, you know, construction
Superintendent and his wages, let's say in the area, let's say
they're $80,000 a year salary. OK, so he can get a job
somewhere else making $80,000 a year, but can he get a job
making $80,000 a year? That's offering a, you know, a
minimal $1000 threshold profit sharing program where, you know,
we hit, you know, 910 times out of the year.
So there's an extra $10,000 of income that he gets at our
company. So he's actually making more
money than the competitive weight for the competitive wages
for his his role. And then he's also works in an
environment that works together, right?
The culture is good. Like you said, you left a team
that was really good and then realized when you were gone what
you had. And so, you know, we talked
about those things, we teach those things and and they see
that and live that every day. The the other thing I wanted to
mention, you brought up about the employee owned stock.
You brought up the, you know, like a quarterly type profit
sharing bonuses or they work it into their salary.
So the. One of the big differences with
my program is let's talk about the employee owned stock.
That's the biggest example. I'm in the Bay Area, so I see
startups, these tech startups, these AI companies, these tech
companies all over the time. And their biggest hook is the
stock that they give people, you know, early days when they're,
they're not worth anything. So you, you're an engineer, you
join in, they're going to give you 10,000 stock or whatever
that's worth nothing. But and then that's their hook
into you who perform and help this team, this company grow and
get this huge evaluation where that stock becomes money.
We only hear about the success stories, right?
One of my early jobs I did was for an IBM employee, number 27,
and he was a forklift driver and he worked there his whole career
and became the warehouse manager logistics, you know, as IBM
grew, he, he grew with the company and he retired a very
wealthy man because of these stock options that he had.
So we all hear those stories. I can tell you this, they're
rare. There's way more stories of
these startups firing up, getting these stock options and
then the company not making it or never, you know, going out of
business, losing their funding. You know, my, my, my EA was
sitting in the room with me right now.
Worked at a company like that where they lost funding for this
project and then overnight the company was gone and what that
stock option, that hook, that supposedly profit sharing was
worth nothing. So this program is way more nuts
and bolts. We paid out monthly, not
quarterly, not, you know, at Christmas time.
And the reason why we do that because that ties in somebody's
daily behavior because you're affecting their monthly bills.
Everybody's bills are monthly. No one thinks about their
grocery budget. What did it is quarterly, right?
We don't think about it. Right.
We don't think that far ahead. Everything financially that we
finance, that we budget for is done on a monthly basis.
So why are we not making that cow fatter that monthly?
I think of it like a gas tank, right?
So every month we fill up the tank of gas and then we got to
make it to the end of the month before we hit E.
And hopefully, you know, some of us are better about it than
others, but hope there's, you know, there's some because some
going that's going to be left at the bottom of that tank.
When you profit share monthly, you're affecting that needle
that everybody thinks about every day.
Everybody thinks about their bills every day.
And then when they're thinking about that and how they can fill
up that gas tank more, that's where you would tie in the daily
actions and thoughts of your team members towards that
monthly goal. That's awesome.
I love that you talk about the behaviors tied to this strategy
in paying, paying out the profit sharing percentages monthly.
That to me is actually the biggest issue that I have with
like a standard bonus scheme or, or structure within a business
that doesn't have profit sharing because the 1/4 or 1/2 or one
bonus per year is just simply not enough to actually transform
or adjust or alter behaviors and behavior changes that you need
to be consistent. And I think your your example of
the grocery bill or the gas tank, that's a, it's a perfect
example. Like we, we move on from things
very quickly. Like if someone as humans, if
someone gets feedback that they need to do something differently
and they get it once in an entire quarter that the next
quarter it's probably not even going to be brought up because
the manager forgot about it. Or they're, you know, they're
not really that much of an underperformer and the person
wasn't followed up on. So it doesn't actually really
matter. But when someone is impacted or,
or spoken to monthly, or in this case, their bottom line is
impacted because the profit isn't there for at the company
level. So they're not making that
additional X amount of dollars per month.
They're listening, they're, they're aware of what behaviors
they need to either continue or change.
And behaviors to me are the that's like the catalyst for how
companies can can change and grow.
And especially, you know, we talk about culture a lot on my
podcast and culture generally comes down to the behaviors that
are celebrated and rewarded or the, the behaviors that are not
celebrated and rewarded. And either they're hopefully
they're the right behaviors that are being celebrated and
rewarded. But sometimes in companies that
have, you know, more challenging cultures, the wrong behaviors
are the ones that are celebrated and rewarded.
And so behavior I think is, is really fundamental to business
strategy and and to collaboration and mutual
ownership and all of those things that we've talked about.
And certainly as you've pointed out, really fundamental to
profit sharing because you everyone benefits when the right
behaviors are displayed and rewarded.
Correct. Yeah.
Yeah, like one thing I preach against is Christmas bonuses.
Nobody thinks about getting their Christmas bonus in
February. No one's working harder in March
thinking about that Christmas bonus now.
Christmas bonuses are fun, right?
That's a great Christmas party. People do look forward to them.
They actually wait till after Christmas to quit to make sure
that they get it. Yes right.
So we see a lot of, we see a lot of two week notices in January.
In January. Yeah.
But when you do it monthly, so that so and then I got to be a
better example like the quarterly bonuses are when we
started our profit sharing program, we had like I said, it
was total disaster. We didn't know what we were
doing. So we started quarterly because
that's what you hear about the corporate quarter bonus, you
know, in, in America here. And so we started that way.
Nobody thought about their bonus they were going to get in April
for the first quarter. They didn't think about it in
January or February. And I, I saw this sense of rush
in the middle of March. So here we are.
We have 12 weeks to get this quota or to, you know, to make
this as big as we can. And now we're thinking about it
two weeks before we didn't, we didn't do anything extra in
January or February. So that's what made his
transition to the monthly. And that's where I really want
your listeners to hear that. That's how so important it is.
Because when you're when you're bonusing out quarterly or
yearly, you're not changing that needle, you're not feeling that
gas tank that they're worried about.
So you're not in their daily thoughts and actions and
therefore that dollar those, that money that company's paying
is a complete waste and it's super inefficient when you tie
in their monthly financial needle to the the income, extra
profit sharing that they can make.
That's where you're going to see your, your estimator driving to
a job site 20 minutes. A lay is not going to listen to
the radio and zone out. He's going to listen to a
podcast about being a better estimator or about communication
or about being a better leader. They'll start doing things and
they're they'll start reading self help books at home or learn
more about their their trade to help affect that needle more
everyday for their own lives. Absolutely, absolutely.
I think you know, again, everything that you're saying
makes it's, it's so intuitive, like it makes total sense.
Not everyone. Is used everywhere then.
That well, that's the thing and that's actually exactly where
I'm going because one of the things that I was thinking about
is that not everyone is meant to own their own business.
Not everyone is going to own their own business.
And so this is like the next best thing.
They get to influence, they get to impact and they get to take
the same level of pride in what they do for someone else's
business and, and have that mutual ownership.
And so my final question for you is why aren't more businesses
doing this? Like it seems like such an A
simple, not simple, but you know on the surface such an intuitive
and simple way to drive better collaboration, better teamwork
and more ownership. Yeah, that's a great question.
And it's a question that I want to answer for everybody and
solve because I just think back to when I was running my
business without it and I come across this idea.
So for one, I didn't know about it.
You don't hear about this like a ton or a lot.
It's not preached from the mountaintops.
But and then once I got the idea and I was like, you know, I kind
of want to pursue this. I think this would solve a lot
of my, my problems. You know, I felt this ceiling in
my organization of how do I take these 30 people and get them on
the same page And it, that's it. That's a daunting task.
You know, I was, I was 28 years old and I had a lot of
leadership experience. Like I was ahead of my game as
far as that. So I felt like if I was going to
struggle with this, you know, that's why I started going to
these 60 year old business owners that been doing it for 30
years and I wasn't getting good answers.
And then when I started looking into it, there was no how to.
And then I remember that moment sitting at my desk with a blank
piece of paper and a pen and just immediately getting stuck
because there's so many questions.
As a business owner, there's so many metrics financially that
you have to keep an eye on. And those business owners,
business ownership is hard. You're worried about, you know,
sustaining what's going on. You're worried about the
problems you're having today. You're worried about making your
commitments tomorrow, whether that's financial or jobs or
promises or suppliers or whatever it is, right?
And so to actually, first of all, just to have time to work
and think on your business is a challenge.
And we get so caught up being fireman.
We get really good at being a fireman, putting out fires all
day long, that that's what takes our attention.
And then you get down to it. There was no guidance, there was
no help. And my book is the first book
that I've been able to find that actually tells you how to do it
and gives And then my probe, my class, my course gives you the
spreadsheets that I still use today.
And it gives you all the things that you need to have in order
before you profit share, right? Because like when I started, I
was like, can I even do this? Is this even sustainable?
Is it smart? You know, all these questions I
had and I just jumped off the Cliff and it took about three
years before I landed on my feet.
And it was a huge success. But that's why people don't do
it. And then as business owners,
you're constantly being bombarded with, you need more
marketing. You need more this, these
communication classes, these trainings, this you got to fly
your people to this conference. You know, there's all these
things that are constantly coming at you that cost money
that do help. I think, I think I'm a huge fan
of education and investing in your team.
But it's like, how much do you do?
When do you do it? Who do you do it with?
What do you do it about? Like there it's a lot for a
business owner. And as you grow, and I think
this really like this kind of really kicks in as a problem
when you get to about employee five through 10, you know, when
you're as mom and pop and you're in your garage, like I started
in my garage and I had five guys, they saw me every day.
It was easy to know what everybody was doing and going
on. And this problem didn't really,
it started smacking me in the face till probably employee
number 10. But it really punched me at #30
And then I'm like, Dang, I feel the ceiling.
And there's got to be, there's got to be a better way and a
different way to do this that that's not going to send me to
an early grave. That's not going to take me away
from my children and my marriage, that I can have a
balance with all that, whatever balance means, but they can have
this this success without me doing everything myself.
Totally. I really appreciate all of the,
all of the ways that you've thought about your own business
and, and others and, and how you kind of took this problem that
you found where you you couldn't find the answers.
You knew you needed an answer and you couldn't find them.
And so you created a solution for that.
So I think that's really awesome.
And and really again, like very inspiring, very motivating to
think, you know, we all could for those of us who aspire to
have our own businesses or who do own our own businesses, that
we could also one day kind of engage in the same type of
structure. Should we be so lucky to, you
know, grow our businesses to be able to do that.
So thank you, Rob so much for coming on the podcast, being our
first official profit sharing guru and sharing your wisdom.
And in a sense, you've profit shared with us because you've
you've helped us to understand what we can do for our own
organizations or our own businesses that we might own and
hopefully have a better and more deeply felt impact on the people
around us and the organizations that we're within.
So thank you and we'll have everything linked.
But just as a point, where can everyone find your book and
register for a class and get to know you a bit better?
Get connected. Yeah, so the book is on Amazon.
It's like 10 bucks. We're not making any money on
it. We just want to get the word
out. In that book, you'll find the
three things that you need before you consider profit
sharing. You'll find the 10 rules on
profit sharing that I've learned all the hard way.
It was not an instant success. This is all from the ground up
and you'll also find we talked about the VMS, the decision
makers of who gets it and how do you determine that?
So there's a lot of things and there's a great jump start and
then profit x.co is our website where you can buy the course.
You can also buy time with me and I can personally walk you
through and help you and guide you in setting up your profit
sharing program for success. Find me on Facebook and
Instagram. Rob Gallaher.
You know, it's not all work and business on there.
I got hobbies and my kids and funny stuff we do in the gym and
what's going on in my life. So I'd love to connect with
business owners and leaders in the industry that that really
looking for the, you know, the, the cherry on top of being a
leader and having an organization that kicks butt.
Awesome. Thank you so much, Rob.
Again, really appreciate it and hopefully we'll have you back on
the podcast one day. Thank you, Tracy.
That was fun. Hey, just before you go, don't
forget to subscribe to the show so that you are the first to
hear when an episode drops each week and maybe leave a five star
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Plus, if you have someone in mind who would really enjoy this
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Thank you so much for. Tuning in and I'll see you next
week.