1 00:00:02,300 --> 00:00:05,100 Welcome to the bringing the human Back To Human Resources, 2 00:00:05,100 --> 00:00:08,400 podcast, the podcast, all about the delicate balance between 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,400 people and business. And quite literally reconnecting 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,200 the to my name is Tracy Ruben and I've spent nearly my entire 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,700 professional career in a jar, join me as I share stories 6 00:00:18,700 --> 00:00:20,700 opinions and words of advice with you each week. 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,400 Hi everyone. This is Tracy Ruben. 8 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,300 Welcome back to another episode of bringing the human Back To 9 00:00:27,300 --> 00:00:30,700 Human Resources. Don't forget to rate Review And 10 00:00:30,700 --> 00:00:33,700 subscribe wherever you are listening to this podcast. 11 00:00:33,900 --> 00:00:36,100 I release an episode every Tuesday. 12 00:00:36,100 --> 00:00:39,400 So I'd love for you to be a part of this journey every single 13 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,500 week before I get into this episode this week. 14 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,700 I just want to preface by saying that if there is anything that 15 00:00:46,700 --> 00:00:51,000 you hear that you disagree with, don't appreciate have a 16 00:00:51,008 --> 00:00:53,500 different view on. Don't stop listening. 17 00:00:53,500 --> 00:00:58,200 Keep listening, listen until the end and then if you still 18 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,400 disagree or have an opposing, You whatever email me, message 19 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,600 me, reach out because I want to have the conversation with you. 20 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,200 We can video chat, I'll send you an invite. 21 00:01:10,500 --> 00:01:14,400 I want to have the conversation instead of losing someone to an 22 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,100 opposing view and the same goes for me when I hear something 23 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:23,900 that I totally disagree with. Even if it pains me, I still 24 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:26,900 keep listening. So I hope that that inspires you 25 00:01:26,900 --> 00:01:29,500 to keep listening, even if you disagree with me. 26 00:01:29,900 --> 00:01:33,400 Then again, listen all the way to the end and then reach out to 27 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,600 me, you can email me, you can message me on any social 28 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,200 platform. However, you want to reach out. 29 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,700 I'm open to this discussion, let's get into it. 30 00:01:45,500 --> 00:01:49,000 So there's a lot that's been going on these past few weeks. 31 00:01:49,300 --> 00:01:52,800 I think we all thought that 2021 was going to be a little bit 32 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,500 different, maybe a little bit more calm more relaxed but in 33 00:01:57,500 --> 00:02:02,500 terms of what's going on in the u.s. it has been everything 34 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:07,100 except that and actually I thought it would be interesting 35 00:02:07,100 --> 00:02:12,300 to talk about something that's really floating around the HR 36 00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:15,500 space. He's the legal space and that's 37 00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:20,000 the question on employee speech. And what employees speech is 38 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,400 protected. A lot of people think that 39 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:28,800 because we, as Americans are in an at-will country and we have 40 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,400 certain rights and amendments that give us our right to like 41 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,500 the freedom of speech. For example, our First Amendment 42 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:38,300 right that that means that we are allowed or entitled to talk 43 00:02:38,300 --> 00:02:41,400 about anything and everything at work. 44 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,900 So my message to you, That actually that's not true. 45 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,200 Before I even get into that, I want to break down a term that I 46 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,100 just used which is at will. I will employment basically 47 00:02:52,100 --> 00:02:57,100 means that the employee and the employer have the opportunity to 48 00:02:57,100 --> 00:03:00,500 sever the relationship at any point without any warning or 49 00:03:00,500 --> 00:03:03,200 advance notice. So now understanding what 50 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,300 at-will employment is. It's also important to 51 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:10,700 understand that Most states in the United States are at will 52 00:03:10,700 --> 00:03:15,000 employment States the OWN. Only state that is not an 53 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,000 at-will employment state is Montana. 54 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,700 Actually some states, do have exceptions in there at will 55 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:23,300 employment that you actually need to provide a little bit of 56 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:26,000 notice or some reason a termination. 57 00:03:26,300 --> 00:03:30,700 But again all states except for Montana are at will States 58 00:03:30,700 --> 00:03:35,100 meeting the employee or the employer or both can dismiss or 59 00:03:35,100 --> 00:03:38,700 sever the relationship at any time, without any reason. 60 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,500 So I'm an employee. I don't like my job anymore. 61 00:03:42,700 --> 00:03:44,800 I Quit. I don't have to give notice, I 62 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,300 don't have to give a resignation letter. 63 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,200 Although, there are certain things that are suggested, of 64 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,500 course, I would suggest that you always give notice. 65 00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:56,600 And I would suggest that you always give a resignation letter 66 00:03:56,900 --> 00:03:59,000 because that's what's appropriate. 67 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,600 And professional doesn't, just because the law doesn't require, 68 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,700 it doesn't mean that you should throw manners out the window. 69 00:04:04,700 --> 00:04:09,100 Of course, similarly employers are therefore not obligated to 70 00:04:09,100 --> 00:04:11,200 give any reason at time of termination. 71 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,000 However, most employers Again are going to do what is 72 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,000 professional and appropriate, not necessarily just blindly 73 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,800 follow the law. So most employers are going to 74 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,300 terminate with Reason Not Just because because actually that 75 00:04:26,300 --> 00:04:30,400 opens them up to litigation. So now that we have a little bit 76 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,700 of a better understanding of what at-will employment means. 77 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:39,400 I think we should break down the idea behind freedom of speech 78 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:44,300 and employee protected speech so employers Is don't actually have 79 00:04:44,300 --> 00:04:46,500 complete freedom of speech at work. 80 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,900 The only exception is really public or government employees. 81 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:55,400 However, employers do kind of navigate this quite carefully 82 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,600 because there are federal and state laws that protect workers 83 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,900 speech in certain specific situations. 84 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,100 For those of you who are not American or maybe you don't have 85 00:05:05,100 --> 00:05:08,500 as much of an understanding of what our rights are, As 86 00:05:08,500 --> 00:05:10,300 Americans. Maybe you are American and you 87 00:05:10,308 --> 00:05:12,100 don't have as much of an understanding. 88 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:17,200 I am To break down every term as best I possibly can and I will 89 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:22,100 link all of my articles and citations in the episode details 90 00:05:22,100 --> 00:05:24,900 please. No, I am not an expert in law. 91 00:05:24,900 --> 00:05:31,100 I do not have a law degree but in my career I obviously have to 92 00:05:31,100 --> 00:05:36,000 have some level of expertise and knowledge around laws employment 93 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,800 law especially because we have employees and we are running a 94 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,300 business and there is a lot that goes into That. 95 00:05:43,300 --> 00:05:48,900 So the First Amendment provides citizens Americans the right to 96 00:05:48,900 --> 00:05:52,900 freedom of speech among other things, that doesn't mean that 97 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,000 employees can necessarily say whatever they want. 98 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,800 Again, business is also can't prevent all kinds of employee 99 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,900 speech. So the National Labor Relations 100 00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:09,500 Act, also known as the nlra protects employees rights to 101 00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:11,900 discuss terms and conditions of their employment. 102 00:06:11,900 --> 00:06:16,000 So for example, All employees actually can discuss their pay 103 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,600 with one another especially when it comes to their decision. 104 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,600 To end up asking for more need more money because that is a 105 00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:26,700 terms and conditions of employment, most of the time 106 00:06:26,700 --> 00:06:30,800 managers actually want to prevent employees from talking 107 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,500 about their wages with one another. 108 00:06:32,500 --> 00:06:37,500 And while we definitely can say, hey talking about pay can create 109 00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:41,900 an environment that is not so inclusive, or it can make people 110 00:06:41,900 --> 00:06:44,300 feel uncomfortable. So We definitely don't encourage 111 00:06:44,300 --> 00:06:46,800 it. Employees also have the right to 112 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,400 talk about unlawful conduct like harassment, discrimination 113 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,100 safety violations. However, they don't have the 114 00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:57,600 right to make racist sexist, or discriminatory comments. 115 00:06:57,900 --> 00:07:00,300 So some a lot of this information is coming from Sherm 116 00:07:00,300 --> 00:07:04,500 which is a very, very popular HR resources website. 117 00:07:04,500 --> 00:07:07,800 And again I will link all of these citations in the episode 118 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,200 details. I'm specifically going to focus 119 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,000 on that last part. In this episode, I'm going to To 120 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,600 repeat it just one more time, employees, have the right to 121 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,300 talk about unlawful conduct in the workplace. 122 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:24,200 So, for example, if Susie and Sally are at the water cooler 123 00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:28,500 and there are talking about a situation that they witnessed 124 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,500 that is protected speech because they are talking about a 125 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:33,800 situation. Let's say it's sexual 126 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,100 harassment, they saw sexual harassment and they're talking 127 00:07:37,100 --> 00:07:41,000 about it. That is their right to talk 128 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,800 about possible, unlawful conduct. 129 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:48,700 In the workplace, Susie and Sally should report that conduct 130 00:07:48,700 --> 00:07:53,600 because we all play a role in ensuring the harassment is not 131 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,400 happening in the workplace for example, right. 132 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,700 But just to break it down, those two employees, they are 133 00:07:58,700 --> 00:08:00,800 protected. Would we encourage different 134 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,400 types of behavior to actually reported instead of talking 135 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,100 about it amongst each other? Totally, the difference is if 136 00:08:07,300 --> 00:08:09,600 Susie and Sally are at the water cooler. 137 00:08:09,900 --> 00:08:13,400 And they start saying things that are discriminatory Tory. 138 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:18,000 Harassing, maybe they say things that are racist sexist or 139 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,600 homophobic, those things are not protected. 140 00:08:21,700 --> 00:08:24,600 So just because you're an American and you have the your 141 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,700 right to the freedom of speech, you are still an employee and 142 00:08:28,700 --> 00:08:33,400 you do not have the right or the freedom to express racist 143 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,500 section sexist or other discriminatory comments and I 144 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:40,500 don't know. Any workplace that doesn't have 145 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,799 an anti harassment and discrimination policies. 146 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,400 So Susie and Sally. While their speech is protected 147 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,000 when they're discussing unlawful, conduct is true. 148 00:08:50,300 --> 00:08:53,800 Susie and Sally are not protected when it comes to 149 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,600 discussing things that are in violation of a harassment or 150 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,900 discrimination policy. Similarly, there's been a lot of 151 00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:05,000 conversation around what happens on social media can an employer 152 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:08,300 hold an employee accountable to what they post. 153 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,100 It's a bit of a gray area which I think is true for everything 154 00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:15,300 in HR. In most cases employees have the 155 00:09:15,300 --> 00:09:19,900 right to conduct themselves on social media, really, however, 156 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,300 they want. Assuming it's lawful, however, 157 00:09:23,300 --> 00:09:27,500 there are some areas where employers can talk to employees 158 00:09:27,500 --> 00:09:31,200 about their social media, especially if it's in violation 159 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,300 of company policy, for example, sharing sensitive or 160 00:09:34,300 --> 00:09:38,800 confidential data whether it's about an employee or the 161 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,100 business. That's probably the best example 162 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:45,200 that I can share with you. If You are a manager or you are 163 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,900 in the HR space and you feel like there's something that you 164 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:51,400 should be addressing with your employee based on what they post 165 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,500 on social media. I encourage you to reach out to 166 00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:58,500 an employment attorney, or a member of your legal team or to 167 00:09:58,500 --> 00:10:02,000 at least speak with other experts on this topic, because 168 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,800 there certainly are lots and lots of Articles and 169 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,500 understanding on how to address social media. 170 00:10:08,500 --> 00:10:12,100 So, going back to this point that I said, I was really going 171 00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:16,600 to hone in on On which is the harassing and discriminatory 172 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,200 speech, not being protected. I think this is really 173 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:25,300 important, given the political climate we saw recently that 174 00:10:25,300 --> 00:10:29,200 there was a riot at the US Capitol. 175 00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:33,300 There have been people arrested raising the question of, can 176 00:10:33,300 --> 00:10:38,500 they be fired by their employer? I have articles that really do a 177 00:10:38,500 --> 00:10:41,800 good job of talking about this. So I'm going to again link 178 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,200 everything in the Details. So, first and foremost, if an 179 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,900 employee is arrested and employer does have the right to 180 00:10:48,900 --> 00:10:52,400 terminate their employment. We talked a lot about unlawful 181 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,200 conduct, right? Most companies in their codes of 182 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,900 conduct prohibit, unlawful conduct. 183 00:10:57,900 --> 00:11:01,500 And so, if someone has participated in unlawful 184 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:06,100 conduct, in any way Employers, in most cases are able to 185 00:11:06,100 --> 00:11:08,900 terminate employment, the biggest key here is that 186 00:11:08,900 --> 00:11:12,200 employers need to be consistent. So, it could look discriminatory 187 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,400 if an Lawyer terminates one person, but not another based on 188 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,900 their unlawful conduct. So if an employer has a 189 00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:22,400 zero-tolerance policy around unlawful conduct and they 190 00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:25,800 decide, okay, we are terminating anyone who is arrested, 191 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,400 regardless of, what their arrested for, or they 192 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,000 participated unlawful conduct, doesn't matter what it is. 193 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,000 We're terminating them that they have to just be consistent. 194 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,200 So, yes, if you get arrested, if you participate in unlawful 195 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,300 conduct, you can lose your job. So one of the questions that's 196 00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:46,900 come up is if these people these rioters can cite the First 197 00:11:46,900 --> 00:11:50,700 Amendment to avoid being terminated or that, that would 198 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:56,200 be a reason or justifiable reason to keep them employed and 199 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,200 employers like oh you know they're going to say this is 200 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,200 their First Amendment right? You know maybe we can terminate 201 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,300 them. Well actually that that's not 202 00:12:04,300 --> 00:12:07,700 true for free speech does not protect you from rebelling 203 00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:12,600 against the government there that It is should be understood 204 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,700 by every American. I think, although clearly it's 205 00:12:15,700 --> 00:12:18,600 not. So there is a great quote from 206 00:12:18,900 --> 00:12:25,700 an article that I will share. And it's from an attorney at a 207 00:12:26,100 --> 00:12:30,300 Consulting, a law firm in Minneapolis, and she says, our 208 00:12:30,300 --> 00:12:32,900 company's only work. When we're in a country that has 209 00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:36,000 effective laws, these people were working against their 210 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,100 employers period. The first amendment gives you 211 00:12:39,100 --> 00:12:42,300 the right to say what you will. But it doesn't protect you from 212 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:46,700 consequences. So this is basically exactly 213 00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:50,400 what we were talking about with the water cooler example. 214 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:55,400 We can talk about unlawful conduct in the workplace, but we 215 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,100 can't participate in unlawful conduct whether that's in the 216 00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:01,200 workplace or outside of the workplace. 217 00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:05,400 My obligation, as an HR partner and as an employer, is to 218 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,200 provide a safe and inclusive workplace. 219 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,500 Every employer has that obligation Ian at least in the 220 00:13:11,508 --> 00:13:14,500 United States. That is a workplace requirement 221 00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:18,400 and expectation. So if an employee is arrested or 222 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:23,200 caught rioting vandalizing participating in unlawful 223 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:28,200 conduct employers, absolutely have the right to terminate that 224 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,400 employee. Just like, if an employee 225 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:37,000 engages in discriminatory speech, or actions employers 226 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,300 have the right to terminate that employee, if the freedom of 227 00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:44,900 Speech, or the first amendment allowed employees to escape 228 00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:48,200 termination. That would mean that people who 229 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,400 participated in sexual harassment or discrimination of 230 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,700 any kind in the workplace were protected. 231 00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:57,700 That's ludicrous. Those people are not protected. 232 00:13:57,700 --> 00:14:02,100 Those people are terminated for their actions based on the the 233 00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:04,300 anti harassment and discrimination policies. 234 00:14:04,300 --> 00:14:07,200 That all employers are expected to enforce this. 235 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,300 All raises a question of do employees fully. 236 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,200 Understand company policies employers do have a 237 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,600 responsibility to make sure that policies are well-known or 238 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,900 documented. So for example, employee 239 00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:23,300 handbooks are a great way, a very important way to 240 00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:27,800 communicate policies. However, not every policy is 241 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,500 going to be written out with specific details, right? 242 00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:36,900 Like a hand book is a guide. It's not, it's not a manual for 243 00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:40,200 every single action or reaction, I don't have to explicitly. 244 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:42,500 Right. For this situation, you are 245 00:14:42,500 --> 00:14:45,300 going to receive a final warning for this situation. 246 00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:49,300 You're going to receive a first warning, that's not necessary 247 00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:53,700 because employers can use their discretion based on the 248 00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:57,500 situation handbook should outline, what is tolerated or 249 00:14:57,500 --> 00:15:00,500 what is not tolerated in the workplace, it does not have to 250 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:04,100 say, don't try it. Don't rob a bank. 251 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,900 Like, those things are not required to be explicitly listed 252 00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:13,200 or outlined in a handbook. Because it's suffice has to say 253 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:18,100 unlawful conduct harassment discrimination Etc. 254 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,500 Are not tolerated in the workplace. 255 00:15:20,700 --> 00:15:24,400 So, shifting gears a little bit there, have also been questions 256 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,500 on whether or not employees, can engage in political 257 00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:33,700 conversations at work. So, removing ourselves from the 258 00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:38,200 conversation of unlawful conduct and moving into a space where 259 00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:42,900 we're talking about politics, Someone is Democrat and someone 260 00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:45,800 is a Republican and someone else has a Libertarian. 261 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,400 And someone else is part of the green party. 262 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:52,100 Let's say they're having a conversation and they have 263 00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:54,500 opposing views. I think. 264 00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:57,400 On a personal note, conversations are really 265 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,100 important inside of the workplace, outside of the 266 00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:02,500 workplace. We have to be able to talk to 267 00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:07,300 each other to come together and discuss our views with respect 268 00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:11,700 for one another. And with an open Open openness 269 00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:14,700 and willingness to understand the other person's perspective. 270 00:16:14,700 --> 00:16:21,500 I also think that when someone else's opinion is a stark 271 00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:25,500 contrast to our own, it gives us the opportunity to explain why 272 00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:29,800 our opinions are our own and to understand their opinions. 273 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,100 Because at the end of the day, everyone comes from a different 274 00:16:32,108 --> 00:16:35,200 background, different upbringing Etc. 275 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,000 But there's a big but here, political conversations are a 276 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,900 very Sticky situation. Is it okay to talk about 277 00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:45,200 politics at work? Am I allowed to share my 278 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,900 political opinion at work in theory? 279 00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:51,200 Yes. Because again this is where 280 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,300 employee speech is pretty protected like these are 281 00:16:54,300 --> 00:16:58,800 opinions, maybe they're not disruptive but employers also 282 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,700 have certain standards around professionalism, most employers 283 00:17:02,900 --> 00:17:06,500 really don't want the political conversation to happen at work 284 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:10,400 because it can create just a little bit of stickiness. 285 00:17:10,700 --> 00:17:14,000 You know, we want to have like a team team mentality. 286 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,800 Team culture when we find out that we have completely 287 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,700 diverging opinions on things that are very, very close to the 288 00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:26,599 heart and chest like politics, that can create it really can, 289 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:28,900 it can create a little bit of animosity, right? 290 00:17:28,900 --> 00:17:34,300 So at the end of the day, employers can't necessarily 291 00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:39,400 limit political speech based on my understanding, however, they 292 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,800 can evaluate whether Disruptive or not. 293 00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:47,500 So, if political speech is happening on the sales floor in 294 00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:52,100 the middle of a meeting with customers or clients and it 295 00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:56,000 actually ends up being disruptive or it takes on the 296 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,000 element of speaking for the company, for example, and it's 297 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,700 not no longer the employees opinion but it actually is 298 00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:03,500 representing the company's beliefs. 299 00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:07,000 It is a gray area because we we aren't going to hold someone 300 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,600 accountable for having a political opinion that we don't 301 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,400 necessarily agree with. With however, if the employees 302 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,600 engaging in political conversation that is disruptive 303 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:20,900 to the workplace, that is obviously a reason for the 304 00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:23,900 employer to step in and have a conversation. 305 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,300 Maybe the employer doesn't move to corrective action or 306 00:18:26,308 --> 00:18:30,400 termination but instead they say hey I totally respect. 307 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,000 We all have our own opinions and that's totally fine. 308 00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:38,000 I would just ask that you leave the political commentary and you 309 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,600 hold the political speech for non-work-related. 310 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,400 Did events and moments because it could create a culture that 311 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,300 isn't as inclusive, because we all have different opinions, and 312 00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:50,100 we all come from different backgrounds. 313 00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:53,400 I think that's totally appropriate and especially if 314 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,200 you've established a really good relationship with your team, it 315 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,200 probably will be kind of easy to have that conversation. 316 00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:04,500 If there is divisive and disruptive conversation in the 317 00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:07,400 workplace. But again, underlining on the 318 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:13,000 disruptive peace there can be Disciplinary action up to and 319 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,100 including termination, but the employer does have to do their 320 00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:20,300 due diligence and investigate. If there has been a concern 321 00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:24,400 raised or whatever, the situation is companies, again, 322 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:29,700 most of the time have policies around conduct and 323 00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:32,800 professionalism. So really, what I would do if a 324 00:19:32,808 --> 00:19:35,500 situation came up like this, I would evaluate. 325 00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:40,600 If the conduct exemplified by the employee is in violation. 326 00:19:40,700 --> 00:19:44,700 And of the codes of conduct that the employee, the employee 327 00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:48,200 handbook or that the company policy layout for the employee. 328 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,100 So, if an employee is having political conversation and it 329 00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:56,600 moves into a disruptive category, it's probably in that 330 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,400 same realm of harassing, or discriminatory comments. 331 00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:06,500 Certainly these policies that employers set for employees can 332 00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:11,100 be again, very gray. Nuanced have caveat However 333 00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:14,100 again, harassment and discrimination are the common 334 00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:16,600 denominator. This is somewhere where if you 335 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,900 are a manager or an employer or HR partner, you should take a 336 00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:23,500 partner and make sure that you are doing your due diligence to 337 00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:28,600 ensure that the employee is not being held accountable to a 338 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,600 standard that isn't consistent and clearly set, and that the 339 00:20:32,608 --> 00:20:35,600 employee is being held accountable appropriately. 340 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:41,400 Under the definitions assigned by the laws and Company, 341 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,600 policies. Divisive political speech can 342 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,500 easily very easily cross over into claims of discrimination or 343 00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:52,800 even a hostile work. Environment companies should 344 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,800 have anti-discrimination policies that allow them to act 345 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,000 on these situations but that also prevent these situations 346 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,600 from happening when situations like this happen companies have 347 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,400 the right to hold employees accountable to those standards 348 00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:14,400 and even in in this incredibly polarizing political climate 349 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,800 that we are in As Americans employees. 350 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,900 Again, I can only say this as much as humanly possible 351 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,400 employees are not protected when it comes to harassment and 352 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:32,300 discrimination, they cannot engage in that kind of conduct. 353 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:39,200 And I think that in this day and age, that's pretty understood if 354 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,200 you're being investigated for. And it happened, you probably 355 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,900 should anticipate that you're being terminated because we are 356 00:21:46,900 --> 00:21:51,400 living in a society where there is no tolerance for that, or at 357 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,600 least. That's my, my feeling is that we 358 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,800 live in a society where there's no tolerance for that, I hope we 359 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,100 are. So I just want to reiterate 360 00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:05,500 again, employees have protected speech when it comes to their 361 00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:08,900 terms and conditions of employment And discussing 362 00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:10,500 unlawful conduct in the workplace. 363 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,600 Place and things like that. However, they cannot engage in 364 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:19,400 unlawful conduct and they cannot conduct themselves in a way that 365 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,200 violates the anti harassment and discrimination policies that are 366 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,200 set in the workplace. My final point on this is just 367 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,900 to remind you that we are all whether we like it or not. 368 00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:36,400 Representative of our companies, whether we're on the clock or 369 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,500 not, which is why I always say that on my podcast, I'm going 370 00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:45,300 Express opinions that are of my own belief and opinions and and, 371 00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:49,400 and not representative of my company's beliefs or thoughts, 372 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,800 or opinions, or what we've done, right? 373 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:57,100 Like I am separating myself in saying that because what I 374 00:22:57,100 --> 00:23:02,200 believe in and what I say on my podcast isn't necessarily what 375 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,100 my company believes or what my company stands behind. 376 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,700 So it's important that in a public setting like a For 377 00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:14,200 example, where I am talking about things that are quite 378 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,100 polarizing or based on, you know, employee rights, employer 379 00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:20,800 rights. That I make that clear the same 380 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,700 thing goes for an employee, that's not on a podcast. 381 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:29,300 So like if an employee is a cashier, they still represent 382 00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:31,000 the company. They work for. 383 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:39,300 So if that cashier is talking to a customer about something that 384 00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:43,900 the company is in the Taking a stance on they are potentially 385 00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:47,400 speaking for the company, right? Like that is the reality that 386 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,500 every employee needs to acknowledge. 387 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:54,100 If you are not willing or if you are, yeah if you're not willing 388 00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:59,300 to be a spokesperson for the company, you should really be 389 00:23:59,300 --> 00:24:03,300 reconsidering what you are sharing and talking about at 390 00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:06,400 work. Now, one of the things that 391 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:13,000 companies by and large over the summer, Were this in 2020, had 392 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,300 spent a lot of time on were social and racial Injustice has 393 00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:19,000 right. Like lots and lots of 394 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:25,200 conversation around Standing Up Against Racism because of all of 395 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,800 the injustices that occurred, especially in 2020, though we 396 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:35,600 know that they've been going on for years and I personally stand 397 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,200 behind this. I think it's a great idea for 398 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,500 companies to talk about these things because And I believe in 399 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:46,900 having the conversation and the employees comprise the company, 400 00:24:46,900 --> 00:24:49,100 right? So you have employees who are 401 00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:53,600 black indigenous people of color and they want to feel safe and 402 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,200 they want to know that their company stands behind them. 403 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,700 We all choose companies based on our values. 404 00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:04,400 So, if I'm going to work for a company that has diverging 405 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,400 values from mine, I'm probably not going to work there for very 406 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:12,200 long, but if I believe in Social and racial I'll Justice and 407 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,000 standing up against injustices and racism. 408 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,800 Then I'm want to work for a company that believes the same 409 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,200 that conversation from companies. 410 00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:25,500 While the topic is political because we're talking about 411 00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:29,200 systemic racism and all of those things that do present 412 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,300 themselves in the political space, it is not a political 413 00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:37,900 comment at least for a company companies when they are talking 414 00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:42,400 about social and racial injustices and Incorporating d e 415 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,600 and I or diversity, equity and inclusion. 416 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,300 I apologize for the acronym. Now, you know, that's called 417 00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:50,200 DEA. And I, when they engage in that 418 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,600 conversation, they're not taking a political stance. 419 00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:01,000 They are taking a stance based on Humanity, based on what their 420 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,600 employees need to hear from them, based on being a part of 421 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,700 society and members of society. And employees should understand 422 00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:10,700 that. When an employer takes a Dance 423 00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:12,700 like that. They're not telling you what to 424 00:26:12,708 --> 00:26:16,800 believe politically they're not, they are telling you what's 425 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,200 important to them. When it comes to inclusivity 426 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:26,700 diversity equity and just being a good decent, human being in 427 00:26:26,700 --> 00:26:30,700 the workplace, that's what companies are sending as a 428 00:26:30,708 --> 00:26:33,100 message, they're not telling you who to vote for. 429 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,500 They're not telling you that your beliefs are stupid. 430 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,000 They're not telling you that your political beliefs are 431 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,000 stupid. They're just telling you what 432 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,600 they care about what they value and what's important to them and 433 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,000 what they hope is important to you. 434 00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:53,700 And I think, I really believe this again personal opinion. 435 00:26:54,600 --> 00:27:00,200 Everyone should be able to stand behind equality and justice. 436 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:05,100 And if you can't, you have to look introspectively and think, 437 00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:09,000 do I not stand for this? Because I've never experienced 438 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,600 it, or do I? Not And for this because I don't 439 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,900 believe in equality. People, who don't stand for it, 440 00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:18,100 I am not going again. I'm not going to polarize this. 441 00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:20,100 I'm not going to say people on this side of people on that 442 00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:21,900 side. But if there's a person who 443 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:27,400 says, I don't believe in racial or social justice and equality, 444 00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:30,900 those are people that either are blessed to have never 445 00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:34,300 experienced Prejudice or discrimination, which I can't 446 00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:38,600 relate as a Jewish woman. I really can't relate or they 447 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:43,800 just have not Given themselves the opportunity to understand 448 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,500 why it's important to someone else. 449 00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:48,700 So really, what I'm trying to get at here is that employers I 450 00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:52,400 think underscored their anti harassment and discrimination 451 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,100 policies when they stood up Against Racism and social 452 00:27:56,100 --> 00:28:00,800 injustices, if companies weren't vocal about it, they didn't have 453 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:06,200 the opportunity to talk about why those values matter I 454 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,600 recognize that not every company is going to be outspoken about 455 00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:12,800 racial and Injustice and where they stand? 456 00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:16,800 I think that it is important for companies to always do the right 457 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,000 thing and to talk about what that right thing is. 458 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:25,300 And this whole episode has talked about the policies of 459 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,100 anti harassment and discrimination and what is 460 00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:34,100 protected employee speech. I think that companies actually 461 00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:39,900 send a really strong message of what they're anti harassment and 462 00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:42,600 discrimination. In policy actually means, when 463 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,400 they stand up against it, not just in an investigation when 464 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,300 they terminate someone. But when they actually say we 465 00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:53,300 stand for X, we don't stand for. Why? 466 00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:55,000 I think we'll probably see more of that. 467 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,700 I think will probably will see, companies, talking more about 468 00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:03,900 their beliefs and what comprises, what brings people to 469 00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:07,700 the table, what people value. And again, that's not the 470 00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:12,600 company telling you who to vote for or To believe, it's just 471 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,500 about human decency, right? And like how we respect and 472 00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:21,600 treat people and every company, I think has an obligation to 473 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,200 make it very clear. That employees should expect a 474 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,100 safe inclusive, workplace. So the key takeaways for this 475 00:29:29,100 --> 00:29:34,700 episode are as follows one employees, do have certain 476 00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:39,900 protected types of speech, they can't just say anything they 477 00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:43,600 still. They are expected to follow and 478 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,200 be in line with anti harassment and discrimination policies as 479 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,300 well as other types of codes of conduct to employers. 480 00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:55,500 Have to have a clear policy around, what is tolerable, and 481 00:29:55,500 --> 00:30:01,600 what is not three employers, have to fairly and diligently 482 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,000 investigate any claims of harassment or discrimination, 483 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,500 whether it's from employee speech, or whether it's from 484 00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:13,900 employee, And finally, employees should know that any 485 00:30:13,900 --> 00:30:17,800 inappropriate or unlawful conduct outside of work can 486 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,700 impact employment. Thank you so much for listening 487 00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:26,400 to an episode. That quite frankly was not easy 488 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,200 to record or make because it required a lot of research. 489 00:30:30,300 --> 00:30:34,400 So, I hope that we can just have an open and candid conversation. 490 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,200 Not everything that I say is, right, not everything that I say 491 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,700 is wrong. I think that the My best advice 492 00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:46,900 to you is to get second opinions to do your own research and to 493 00:30:46,900 --> 00:30:49,700 have the conversation. So if there's something that you 494 00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:53,900 want me to dig in into more or you want to kind of connect on, 495 00:30:54,100 --> 00:31:00,300 please email me, message me, reach out, I invite and welcome 496 00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:04,100 the conversation, whether it is an aligning view or not. 497 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,400 As always, you can connect with me pretty much on every 498 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,600 platform. Just revamped an updated my 499 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,600 website. So I really would love if you 500 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,000 can take a look. It's HR Tracy.com just a 501 00:31:18,008 --> 00:31:19,700 reminder. My name is spelled with an i. 502 00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:24,600 So it's HRT raci.com. I also just joined Clubhouse. 503 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,500 So you can find me by searching HR. 504 00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:29,900 Tracy, I'm the same age are Tracy. 505 00:31:29,900 --> 00:31:34,000 I'm pretty much every platform. So follow me on clubhouse, 506 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,500 Instagram, connect with me on LinkedIn. 507 00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:38,900 I have a group page on LinkedIn as well. 508 00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:41,200 All of those links are on On my website. 509 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,100 So you don't have to remember a single thing that I say you can 510 00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:48,100 just go to HR Tracy.com and actually you can also submit 511 00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:52,000 anonymous questions or feedback through my website. 512 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,700 So if you go to my website and you click reach out, you 513 00:31:55,700 --> 00:31:58,200 actually can fill out that submission form you don't have 514 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,600 to include your name, you can just put in your email doesn't 515 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,200 matter and it will allow for you to submit questions or feedback 516 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,900 anonymously just know that even if you reach out with your name. 517 00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:12,800 And All of your information. I will always keep it 518 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,400 confidential. I am your HR partner at the end 519 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,400 of the day I'll see you next week.