Welcome to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources
podcast. I'm Tracy Turn off and I've
spent my entire professional career in HR.
Each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people
and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create
meaningful outcomes. Listen in as I share my own
experiences, challenge the status quo, and chat with guests
from various industries about our mission to bring the human
back to human resources. Hi everyone, welcome back to the
Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources podcast.
Thank you so much for being here for another week.
This week I am joined by Archana Mohan, a leader, teacher, and
author who believes the authentic leadership, and that
authentic leadership in general, starts from within.
Growing up in a multicultural environment, Archana witnessed
first hand how strong leadership could build relationships,
bridge cultural divides, and foster collaboration.
She brings a unique perspective to her work, drawing on her
experiences as both a teacher and a leader to drive
innovation. Her journey, shaped by paradox
and fueled by curiosity, has taught her that leadership isn't
about ticking boxes or chasing external validation.
It's actually about embracing complexity, leaning into
discomfort, and crafting your through line.
As Chief Operations and Technology Officer within the
finance sector, Archana has a passion for unlocking human
potential. And I think we can all agree
that this is exactly who we want to hear from on this podcast.
She has built teams, LED through uncertainty, and empowered
others to find their path forward.
Archana's academic qualifications include ABA in
French, literature from Brown University, and MA in Education
from Columbia University, and an MBA in Finance from Yale
University. So some amazing universities and
accolades there. And when she's not helping
others lead from their core, Archana can be found learning
from life's twists and turns and reminding everyone that the most
important question is, if you don't, who will?
And so, Archana, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for bringing all of your knowledge and
experience to the show. Thank you Tracy for having me.
It's really great to be here. Of course, of course, we are so
grateful for your time and those degrees that you have collected
over time are incredible from some amazing institutions.
So kudos to you. I'm sure a lot of hard work.
Yeah, a lot of hard work, but a lot of fun too.
So I think it, yeah, very lucky, very, very lucky.
Amazing. Well, I kind of want to start
with a little bit more about you because I know naturally you do
have a book called the Through Line, how understanding who you
are empowers, how you lead. And I'd love for you to share
with the listeners where the inspiration for that book and
the content of your book kind of came from.
Sure. So I guess I'll take everyone
back to COVID and lockdown. So in March 2020, we were locked
down. And it's probably not a period
in our history that we necessarily want to go back to
very often. But one of the things it did for
me was it allowed me to come face to face with some key
questions, some questions about the type of leader I wanted to
be and the type of leader I wanted to work for.
And so in that process of introspection, I discovered or
stumbled upon this idea that who we are really influences how we
lead. And that was the beginning of
the sort of birthing of this book where I tried to think
about how do we build a framework that's easy to use in
the workplace that encourages each of us to show up as we are
and to empower others to find the best of themselves and to
show up in the way they wish to in the workplace.
And so that was kind of the the origins of the book.
And the reason I decided to sort of write it all down was that I
wish I'd had this playbook when I started out in my career,
which was a long time ago. And I thought if I could offer
one person that that sort of framework, it might help.
So that's why I did it. Amazing.
And I think it's so interesting and actually quite helpful for
everyone listening actually to understand that your background
is not an HR. You're a passionate leader
within, you know, business presently within the finance
sector of the world where you you see this opportunity and
potential that intrinsically lies within humans and human
connection and what they bring to the workplace.
And I'm curious, like, have you always kind of felt impassioned
by that, or did you have a leader or a mentor who really
brought that out of you? Yeah, it's a great question,
Tracy. And I think I was thinking about
in in thinking about this conversation with you, I was
thinking about what is my connection?
Why do I feel like I want to empower people?
What is it about me or my experience that brought me to
this point? And I think it all goes back to
my very first job in high school was in the mail room for an HR
director. Actually, weirdly, I'd never
kind of made the connection before.
And when I spoke to you, I thought about it and I was like,
that's really weird. Maybe, maybe the universe
conspired to get me my first experience with people.
But I do think that it had something to do with this
fascination about we can automate a lot of things in the
workplace and the conversation around AI is obviously
incredibly topical and very relevant to all of us in our in
our day-to-day lives and jobs and everything we do actually.
But what we can't take away is human emotion and human insight
and human beings from the workplace.
I think we each are really fundamental to ensuring that our
businesses thrive, but we're also fundamental to ensuring
that each other thrive. And that connection is really
important to me. And so while I am definitely not
an HR specialist, unfortunately, I am fascinated by the whole
area in terms of how do we as leaders think about the people
who work in organizations not as capital, not as resources, but
as people without any kind of data or analytics or numbers.
This is just about how we feel when we enter the workplace.
Do we feel like we are included? Do we feel like our voices are
heard? Do we feel like we have an
impact? Because ultimately we are
meaning making machines. We need to feel needed.
And that's what I'm trying to achieve.
That that is kind of that really drives me.
And I think if I think about why, it's probably because along
the path of my career, I haven't always felt like I belonged.
I haven't always felt like my voice mattered, and so I've kind
of been in search of how to create those environments now
that I'm in a position where I can.
Wow, that's, I mean, that's really powerful.
I think it, you know, people respond generally in one of two
ways when they find themselves in that type of circumstance
where they don't necessarily feel heard or, you know, seen or
valued, whatever the the the word might be.
And it's either people kind of become reclusive and they, they
retreat and, and you know, maybe even kind of avoid or they lean
in, which is effectively what you've done and lean in so much.
So where then they want others not to feel the way that they
once felt. So I'm sure, I'm sure that there
are a lot of people, especially considering your role, the
seniority of your role, I'm sure there are a lot of people who
appreciate what you have been able to create for people either
who work for you or with you or around you, I would assume.
Well, I mean, I hope so. I would say two things about
that. The first is you never do it
alone, right? I mean, it's really impact is
really important. But at the same time impact
comes from the collective. It doesn't come from any one
person. And I've really understood that
in, in a lot of ways. And we can talk about why I
think that. But I, I believe that the, the
group is stronger than the individual.
I think the importance of that is that, you know, we, we bring
different strengths to the table.
We bring different experiences to the table.
And all of those experiences matter.
Do they all matter in the context of the work we are doing
at the moment? I don't know.
It depends. But being an encouraging human
and allowing people to voice those differences is really
important because it actually helps the bottom line.
It helps the company grow. It helps the company protect.
It helps us do the right thing by whoever it is that we're
serving. This is, you're totally
preaching to at least my choir here because, you know, on my
show, at least I, I try to really, you know, be predictable
in some ways because I, I share my opinions, right?
And, and I'm pretty unrelenting in that way.
And something that I talk about often is that there is this
responsibility for businesses to understand and appreciate the
value of the human and that you don't have to be in HR.
In fact, it's probably more helpful if they're not in HR and
valuing this right. And of course we need HR leaders
to value too, But so often we're kind of screaming out in our own
echo chambers like matter, we matter, humans matter, we have
value. There's, you know, we can't just
replace or or or or see humans as this.
You know, you kind of mentioned it like capital and a number
effectively. And so I think it's really,
really important that non HR business leaders carry that
torch. And so to your point, this group
impact, which I think we should talk about because you mentioned
that it's something that we could get into.
So I think we should, this group impact does have, I mean, impact
is the perfect word. It does have a huge impact.
So what are your what are some of your learnings throughout
your career in terms of how impactful or significant
multiple minds or multiple kind of supports around this type of
movement with human value, human connection, humans in the
workplace impacting the bottom line.
Like where has where have you seen that kind of come to life
and and be significant in your career?
I think if you, if you think about the frame of mind in which
you find yourself when you start working.
And I don't want to over generalize here because of
course my experience is not, is not necessarily the norm.
But I do think that many of us start in the workplace and we,
we think about what we can do individually, what we can do at
work. Because we go to work, we spend
8 hours a day there, if not more.
And we want to, we want to see some return on that investment.
And then at some point, so you start out with the I, right?
You start out with what can I do?
What can I bring, what can I contribute to?
And eventually you start to realize, or at least I did, that
it was when I was getting into groups, into rooms with other
people, and I was brainstorming about ways to solve the latest
problem, whatever that might be, that I was not only able to come
to an answer more quickly, but also I was able to challenge my
own assumptions and get out of my echo chamber, as you said.
And then we collectively had an impact, right?
It was no longer about me as a number, but about us as a unit.
And I, I find that very rewarding.
I can't express how or why I believe that really, but I I
feel that the combination of different strengths builds on
itself like it. It's.
It's exponential, right? What you can do as a group is is
just amazing. We see it.
I think the most sort of relevant metaphor is probably in
the sporting world, like team sports don't rely on one star
player. I mean, there are star players,
and that's amazing, but it's when the teams work together,
when the star player is able to bring everyone with them, you
end up winning games. You end up, you know, hitting
the scoreboard in a different way and I think you end up doing
difficult things more easily. And, and, and for me that that
is true impact. It's when it amplifies itself,
it builds on itself. It becomes the group and then
the bigger group and then the huge group.
And pretty soon you have, as you said, a movement.
And it's not about big actions necessarily.
It's small steps, but they're really important steps,
remembering that we are all connected.
And I know that's a bit of like, you know, it's, it's people talk
about it a lot. You know, we are all connected
to everyone else and it's important to remember that.
But I I really truly believe that you cannot underestimate
the power of the group. I love that and it actually has
made me think a little bit about a conversation I've had with a
colleague recently, like in the last several days.
And before I talk about that conversation, I, I want to
mention too that a lot of the time on, on my show or in
conversations with, you know, thought leaders throughout, you
know, any kind of business really in industry, we talk a
lot about the dynamic between manager or company and employee.
And, you know, thinking about impact, even as you've mentioned
impact from the group and this collective down to the employee
and you, you the way, at least the way that I've taken it also
is this, you know, the impact that's felt laterally.
And so that made me think of this conversation that I've had
recently with a colleague of mine where we were talking about
collaboration. And of course, you know, the
buzzwords alignment, collaboration, those are always
thrown around. But what does it actually mean?
And this is one of the things that I was saying to her in
terms of as not even in terms of, but as we were effectively
trying to solve for a problem. And I asked her like, what does
collaboration actually mean? And to me, it's not just seeking
alignment because that's again, kind of a power dynamic.
Like I'm making this decision. Do you agree?
I don't agree with this decision.
Let's find another solution, right?
That's not so much collaboration.
To me, collaboration is more about this group collective,
coming together, hearing different ideas, being open to
ideas that are not your own. And I think that is actually the
most important part of collaboration, right?
Right. Because it's fundamental.
Because if you generally speaking, you are not open to
someone else having a better idea or a more effective idea or
any idea for that matter, then you are not actually a
collaborator. You're just a teller.
And that doesn't make for group impact as you've talked about
it. And so it made me think about
that conversation because I think it is important for
listeners or really any leaders out within HR, outside of HR to
think about how they collaborate so that they can have maximum
impact. And I don't know what kind of
inspired that thought within me in the last several days, but I
was, I think it was kind of out of need.
I was like, why are we, you know, why?
At least in my, I can only speak for myself.
Why am I in my role kind of confronted with this constant
alignment when really what I'm trying to affect change within
is, is around collaboration and how leaders listen to one
another and how they work together.
And that is it can be quite difficult, I think, to actually
achieve optimal collaboration because you have to like, leave
your ego at the door. You have to really be willing to
say, Oh, my idea is not as good as that one, and that's OK.
Yeah, Isn't that just the nub of it?
Because there's so much you've said there, Tracy.
I could go on for hours about this and I probably rein myself
in because it's such a fascinating topic.
So where do I go? Firstly, listening.
I think that that is the most undervalued skill in the
workplace. So we think, and I think it's
probably a function of our educational systems as well.
And having been a teacher, I think it's an interesting
paradigm, right? When you're in a classroom, you
are taught to sit there quietly and integrate information.
Whether you understand it or not.
It's really beside the point. You just have to sit and listen.
So the teachers on send, the students have to absorb.
Now I'm, I'm, I'm oversimplifying because that's
not how it works. Actually, teachers care a lot.
And, and, and I, you know, I haven't been in that role know
how much responsibility that that entails.
But if we just simplify it, students are taught to listen
and then they enter, and they're also taught that there is value
in having the right answer, right?
We get judged on test scores, on admissions to university, so
many things all of these metrics are based on.
Can you tell me what I am asking you?
Can you give me the right answer to the question I am asking you?
And yet the ultimate paradox is that we get into the workplace
and we try to recreate those models.
So we think that when we go into rooms to collaborate, we have to
give people the right answer because that's what excellence
looks like. And actually, I have come to
appreciate that not having the answer is just as valuable as
having one. And that's just one.
There could be many answers to the same problem.
So I do think listening is critical.
I think the question you asked about what is collaboration
mean? I think I would, I would say
also, what does it look like, you know, in a, in a, in a team
meeting, what does collaboration look like?
Does it look like one person issuing instructions and the
others taking notes? Does it look like people
engaging in heated debate, people not engaging?
What does it look like? I'd challenge us all to think
about that. And then the third question I
would have is what does it feel like when you know you're
collaborating with someone else? How do you feel and how does the
other person feel? Because I think those softer
questions actually unlock something quite fundamental,
which is as humans, we need connection.
We want actually, we are fundamentally driven to
collaborate, but we've had it beaten out of us and so we're
having to relearn how to do it well.
Right, right. And I.
Just think there's it's. So true there's.
Room for the conversation to occur about to me, collaboration
feels like engaging in a thorny issue and kind of battling it
out. To you, collaboration might look
like everyone agreeing, let's talk about that.
Let's set the rule book, you know, kind of let let's make it
transparent and let's find the best way forward.
I think that's the growth path. Totally.
I, I really appreciate that you've dug in further on that
because now look at, look at the collaboration happening here.
So now it's made me think about how, how you're 100% right.
There's this measurement of excellence and it's it is
through competition and especially depending on where
you learn, where you grow up and from whom you learn that
competition is like, you know, amplified.
And I can, I mean, I have shared on the podcast a lot about my
own strengths and opportunities. And I tend to be a very
competitive person and which is great when you're in sports.
And it's something that can, while a strength like any other
strength can become an opportunity if you don't know
how to how and when to wield or unwield that strength, right?
And so I, as you were digging in further to this idea, I was
thinking about how competition and collaboration are kind of
antithetical to one another and they effectively work against
one another, right? Because again, this this ego
power trip issue that sometimes breaks down the ability for
teams to collaborate is based on or rooted in this feel for or
drive for competition. And you know, of course, they're
all of these. I'm sure you know them, you
know, personality tests and strengths finders and disc and
all these things. And as someone who measures
quite high in the competitive market and measurement, I should
say for myself, this is something that as I've, I've
been kind of working as an interim head of HR at my current
company in the absence of one for the better part of more than
half a year. And something that I've learned
through having to wield or unwield that strength is that
collaboration is also equally really important to me.
And they can't work in tandem. You can't be competitive with
someone you're collaborating with.
It just won't work. And I, I think this is where
sometimes the value in being open, having these
conversations, listening to listening, coming back to your
point, listening to someone who has a different belief or belief
system then you is extremely valuable.
And it's just a matter of having that self-awareness to be able
to say, oh, I'm feeling this way because I'm using my
competitiveness, but I need to lean into my collaboration or I
need to lean into whatever other strength or opportunity there
might be. It's so true.
You touched on self-awareness and I can't not, I can't let
that one go because I feel like the entire point of the through
line was to uncover the importance of self-awareness.
And what I learned while I was researching for the book is that
there are two types of self-awareness.
There is the self-awareness that's internally focused.
So how well do I know myself? But then there's the
self-awareness, which is externally focused.
How do others how, how well do others know me?
And I think the reason I bring that up is that that angle of
self-awareness is linked to collaboration.
When you're in a collaborative environment, you have to let
other people see you fully. Not, not, not in part, not just
the parts you want to share, but just who are you, right?
That takes trust, but it also takes what you did so
beautifully just there, which was to surface what it is about
you that you think the person needs to know in order that you
can both win. Because competition can actually
be. It could have a place in the
collaborative dynamic in that you can be competitive together.
You don't. Have to together.
Against each other, right together, you may actually win
faster and wins the wrong word, but like master the subject, but
you could there could be a place for it.
And this is this thing about the polarities in which we, we're in
a world, right, where I think we want, we're constantly moving
between good and bad, you know, hot and cold, left and right.
And I often wonder, can they coexist like they should be able
to, they have in the past. So maybe competition and
collaboration can coexist just about reframing what you mean by
competition. So am I competing with you or am
I competing against you? And those two things have
different results. That's.
A fabulous point, fabulous point.
And this is, I mean, effectively the beauty of, of, you know,
coming together and having different ideas and sharing
thoughts. Because otherwise, again, you're
only listening to what your own beliefs are or what others who
might agree with you are saying. And there isn't real growth in
that. So I, I really, I think that's a
great point that there is, there's so much Gray to live
within and we certainly know that within HR and you
certainly, I'm sure know that also just in the scope of your
role. And I think this whole
conversation has been really interesting and hopefully
thought provoking for the listeners to really start to
think about their own impact, how they, you know, again, kind
of convene as a group and, and win together or achieve together
whatever we want to say. And I, I, I really appreciate
all of the, the wisdom and the insights that you've brought to
the podcast. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for having me Tracy, so much fun.
Likewise, likewise, it was I, I feel like I'm walking away
thinking about even more within that frame of that conversation
around collaboration. And I really appreciate the, you
know, the, the mental juice that we need to get through our days
and weeks, right. So thank you so much.
And for all the listeners who want to connect with you, of
course, we'll have everything LinkedIn, the show notes, but
where can they connect with you? Learn more and also read your
book. You can find me on LinkedIn.
You can check out the website whichisfirstnamelastname.net so
that's Arch numberone.net and the books available wherever
books are sold, so check it out. Love that, love that.
Amazing. Like I said, we'll have
everything, everything linked and it was really such a
pleasure having you on the podcast.
Thank you SO. Much thanks, Tracy.
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