1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,360 You know how every home has that one spot, the place you think 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,080 about throughout the day where you can finally exhale? 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,440 For me, it's my bed. But here's The funny thing, it's 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,760 not just my bed anymore. Be honest. 5 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:12,880 Who in your house tries to sneak into your bed the most? 6 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,560 At mine, it's a toss up between my husband and my daughters. 7 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,720 And I get it. Like, it's technically my 8 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,640 husband's bed too, but it's my bed, you know? 9 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,840 But I get it because of the cozy earth sheets. 10 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,480 And I have the silk comforter and the linen duvet cover on the 11 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,480 silk comforter. It's like being the VIP lounge 12 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,480 of the house. It's like sleeping on a cloud 13 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:35,120 and being wrapped in a cloud hug. 14 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,680 And I just love it so much. In fact, as I'm sharing this 15 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,480 with you, I want to go and lie in bed right now. 16 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,120 Their sheets, as I've shared with you, are made from viscose 17 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,040 from bamboo, and they naturally Wick away heat and moisture, so 18 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,200 you sleep several degrees cooler. 19 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,040 That means even on those nights when it feels impossible to get 20 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,400 comfortable, I actually wake up refreshed. 21 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,120 Thank goodness because I need to wake up feeling that way. 22 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,640 And it's not just the blanket, of course. 23 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:02,880 You can get any of their blankets like the bubble cuddle 24 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,680 blanket or as I've shared, I have the silk comforter. 25 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,840 It's a really true full on experience. 26 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,160 The bubble cuddle blanket, in fact has such a plush texture 27 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,960 and mid weight feel that it's perfect for curling up in the 28 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:18,520 bedroom or draped across the couch as a cozy centerpiece for 29 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,840 all of your guests. And we're approaching fall, 30 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,520 which is my favorite season, and then winter is my second 31 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,320 favorite season. So that means that it is the 32 00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:30,440 perfect time to cozy, as I like to say, your homes. 33 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,440 And honestly, it makes those mornings when you just can't get 34 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,680 out of bed even harder. And that's kind of the point 35 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,520 when life feels stressful. That's the spot I can't wait to 36 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,720 retreat to. My cozy earth bed feels 37 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,680 different. It's where my comfort and 38 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,040 comfort for my family lives. And once you try it, I guarantee 39 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:47,840 you, you'll never want to go back. 40 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,560 The best part of course is that there is 0 risk. 41 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,400 You get a 100 night sleep trial. So if you don't love it, you can 42 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,800 send it back, though I promise you won't want to. 43 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,640 There is also a 10 your warranty because once you feel this level 44 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,960 of comfort, you want it to last. So do yourself a favor, head to 45 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,840 cozyearth.com and use my code human HR for 40% off. 46 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,600 And if you get a post purchase survey, let them know that you 47 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,560 heard about cozy Earth right here because your bed should be 48 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,280 more than just a place to sleep. It should be your happy place 49 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,400 too. Cozy Earth makes that possible. 50 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,920 Welcome to the bringing the human back to human resources 51 00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:22,240 podcast. I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've 52 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,080 spent my entire professional career in HR Each week, we'll 53 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,360 explore the delicate balance between people and business with 54 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,360 the aim to reconnect the two and create meaningful outcomes. 55 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,880 Listen in as I share my own experiences, challenge the 56 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,440 status quo, and chat with guests from various industries about 57 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,480 our mission to bring the human back to human resources. 58 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,480 Hi everyone, welcome back to the Bringing the Human Back to Human 59 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,520 Resources podcast. Thank you so much for being here 60 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,240 for another week. It has been so long since I've 61 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:58,000 just done a solo episode. Frankly, I think I know why I 62 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,280 think I think I do I, I think it's because I've had so many 63 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,520 guests reach out and it's hard to say no. 64 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,800 It's really hard. Like there are so many people 65 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,720 who have a lot of valuable things to say. 66 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,400 And I don't know, I just, I'm a yes girl. 67 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,240 I say yes to as much as possible. 68 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,360 Which part of problem? Part of my problem honestly is 69 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,640 that I say yes to so many things. 70 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,840 I have to. Maybe I have to be more of a no 71 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:27,600 girl. I don't know. 72 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:33,880 Anyway, I really miss kind of just having a kind of 1 to 1 73 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:40,600 where it's just me, myself and I and you, even though you are 74 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,440 listening. After I talked to myself for 75 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,320 however long I talked to myself. So I've really, I've really kind 76 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,480 of missed this. So if you want to hear more solo 77 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,640 episodes, let me know and I will make room for them. 78 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,360 And I will have to just say no a little bit more or I don't know, 79 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,680 maybe I have to do solo episodes on a different platform. 80 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:03,560 I don't know. I don't know. 81 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,920 This is totally uncharted territory for me having to 82 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,400 balance weekly episodes where I can't even like keep up. 83 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:11,920 There are not enough weeks in the year. 84 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,800 I have literally guests like planned through 2026. 85 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,600 It's kind of insane. But I really, I realize that I 86 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,080 do need to do morsel episodes. At least I enjoy them. 87 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:27,360 It's been a while. Anyway, this week I'm going to 88 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:34,080 talk about a bit of a heavy topic, actually a long time 89 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:35,800 listener. And I should, I should say 90 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,200 actually before I get into this, I'm going to put a trigger 91 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,600 warning on this episode. We're going to talk about 92 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,400 pregnancy and infant loss. And so if that's a, you know, 93 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,240 too sensitive a topic for you or, you know, triggering in any 94 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,120 way, I totally understand. I also think that as heavy a 95 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,200 topic as this is, I, my intention is not to make 96 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,640 everyone super sad, but rather to help, I don't know, maybe 97 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:07,360 inspire new ideas for benefits that you offer your employees. 98 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,800 Or maybe you've experienced this yourself or you know someone 99 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,160 who've experienced, who has experienced pregnancy or infant 100 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,800 loss and maybe you can help them or maybe you can help yourself. 101 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:22,600 And so just wanted to kind of get that kind of in front of you 102 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:28,560 first. And also this the reason why I'm 103 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,080 going to tell you a little bit about a long time listener who 104 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:35,480 reached out to me is because she shared with me that October is 105 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,440 pregnancy and infant loss awareness month, which I 106 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:44,680 actually was not aware of. And so it's really apartment 107 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,000 that we're talking about this now. 108 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,160 And so again, hopefully you choose to listen. 109 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,200 And if at any point it's too tough, I totally get it. 110 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,120 I totally understand. So let me tell you a little bit 111 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,440 about why we're talking about this. 112 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,880 This week, a long time listener and HR professional reached out 113 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:08,960 to share her extremely powerful and deeply personal story. 114 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:10,720 And she reached out to me over e-mail. 115 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,560 And she shared in her e-mail that earlier this year, she lost 116 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,680 her newborn son after giving birth super prematurely. 117 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,440 And through her own experience and navigating grief and 118 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,880 returning to work, she discovered a significant gap in 119 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:32,000 how organizations support or don't support parents who 120 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,240 experienced pregnancy or infant loss. 121 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,960 And she shared that while her own employer showed 122 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,720 extraordinary compassion. Which is really fabulous. 123 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,400 Many others are met with misunderstanding or even 124 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,400 insensitivity. And too often grieving parents 125 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,000 return to work before they're ready, expected to perform as if 126 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,880 nothing had changed in their lives without thoughtful 127 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:58,560 guidance from HR or leadership. And she hopes to raise awareness 128 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:03,000 within the HR community and suggested that this podcast 129 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,040 might be able to feature this topic, especially during 130 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,640 Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Month, which is the 131 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,120 month of October, which we are very deeply in at this point. 132 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,840 Her vision includes helping HR leaders and managers understand 133 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:22,080 how to approach loss that parents experience with care, 134 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,360 prepare for their return to work, and connect them with 135 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,920 meaningful resources beyond the standard EAP or employee 136 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,440 Assistance program handout. She's already begun using her 137 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,080 voice to educate others, coaching parents through their 138 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,560 return to work and helping them understand their rights. 139 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,360 And she's building a foundation in her son's memory to continue 140 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,720 this mission. Her message was filled with 141 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:48,200 compassion, purpose, and a desire to turn personal pain 142 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:56,400 into positive change for others. And that summary of her outreach 143 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,240 to me is barely scraping the surface. 144 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:04,080 I, I received her e-mail a number of months ago and I found 145 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,920 it quite difficult in the moment to respond. 146 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,320 And I thought about her every week since then and took me 147 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,320 quite a long time to respond, not because it didn't impact me, 148 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,920 but actually because of how much it impacted me as a mother. 149 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,360 I, I can't even imagine what she must have gone through, what she 150 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:30,040 continues to go through. And so I had to get to a place 151 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:35,400 where I could do this topic justice and also reach out to 152 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:43,799 her in a way that was that met her, her vulnerability, exactly 153 00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:47,800 where I needed to meet her. So to the listener who reached 154 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,760 out, you know who you are. Thank you so much for your 155 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,120 e-mail and thank you for sharing your story and thank you for 156 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,160 allowing us to talk about a really important topic. 157 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,480 So let's break this down a little bit. 158 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,160 You know, of course, as mentioned, October is Pregnancy 159 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,080 and Infant Loss Awareness Month and actually October 15th, so 160 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,000 I'm recording this on October 16th. 161 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,760 But I learned in some of my research that October 15th is 162 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,240 the Remembrance Day, so Pregnancy and Infant Loss 163 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:23,040 Remembrance Day. And I think that it's probably 164 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,800 safe to say that all of us likely know someone who's been 165 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:36,600 impacted in some way by this by loss of of an unborn child or an 166 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,800 infant. And in HR, our work, of course, 167 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,560 is often about compliance and metrics and process and 168 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,080 strategy. But in times of loss, it's our 169 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:55,000 humanity that allows us to really help to navigate these 170 00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:00,160 sometimes very uncharted waters with our colleagues, our teams. 171 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,360 And it's our humanity, I think, that matters most. 172 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,840 And so I want to explore how we in HR or other business leaders 173 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,440 can intentionally support parents who endure pregnancy 174 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,800 loss or infant death. And we can do that in looking at 175 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,920 policy and looking at culture and in looking at some legal 176 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,440 awareness is that maybe we're not super familiar with. 177 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,560 So the reality is, is that when it comes to pregnancy loss, 178 00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:36,040 there are a number of categories or circumstances, let's say that 179 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,800 qualify as pregnancy loss. There's miscarriage, still 180 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,600 birth, failed IVF, failed adoption or surrogacy. 181 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,080 And it's way more common than even I realized, and way more 182 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:50,880 common than we probably would assume. 183 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,480 The emotional, mental and physical recovery is also often 184 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,880 underestimated. This listener who reached out 185 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:05,440 shared a little bit about how if she hadn't had the resources and 186 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,400 the the community around her, that she probably would have 187 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,400 left her job. And you know what? 188 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:17,080 I bet there are parents out there who struggle even in that 189 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,840 way and in in their own mental health. 190 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,280 I I can only imagine the the toll that it might take on 191 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,680 someone. And some parents, of course, may 192 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,480 likely require medical follow up, grief counseling, and even 193 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:40,800 accommodations for their mental, physical or emotional pain, 194 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,320 right? That's ultimately what we're 195 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:44,840 talking about when we talk about loss. 196 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:51,040 And yet at the same time, and this is also kind of looking at 197 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,480 what this particular listener wrote to me, so many parents 198 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,400 just returned to work and they returned to work too soon, or 199 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,360 they returned to work without support or without a community 200 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,120 or without whatever that support might look like. 201 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:11,040 And they might even be expected to just snap back and, you know, 202 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:15,600 get over it and, and maintain exactly what they were doing and 203 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,560 their performance and all of that. 204 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,240 But that's completely unrealistic. 205 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,800 And frankly, it's probably pretty damaging too. 206 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:29,200 And when I think about the implication of someone 207 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:34,000 experiencing this type of loss and then relying on their 208 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,760 employer to understand how to navigate that loss with them, 209 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,920 there's a lot of risk in my mind because there's so much 210 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,360 opportunity for a poor response from leadership and a poor 211 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,320 response from HR. And I even think about things 212 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:54,960 that I've heard when people have had loss, like, you know, your 213 00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:58,600 bereavement, your standard bereavement that you, you know, 214 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,840 see more maybe more frequently or that you hear about more 215 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,080 frequently, which is loss of a parent, loss of a spouse, loss 216 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:07,440 of a sibling, whatever that might be, right? 217 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:13,720 And there there are leaders or HR leaders who might say, well, 218 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,200 you know, they should get over it at this point. 219 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,080 They're taking too long, they're taking too much time out of 220 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,280 work. And I just worry about the risk 221 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,600 of that happening when, you know, not everyone is a parent, 222 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:29,440 not everyone experiences this. And maybe they lack compassion 223 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,560 for this type of loss that someone might be experiencing. 224 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,600 So this ultimately the risk there is that it can add to 225 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,480 additional trauma, frankly, for these folks who experience this 226 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,560 type of loss. And one of the the things that I 227 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:50,920 think is really important to note is that, and I'm looking 228 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,200 for the statistic here is that one in four pregnancies ends in 229 00:13:55,200 --> 00:14:00,600 loss. I was totally shocked to read 230 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,160 that statistic from when from the e-mail that this listener 231 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,880 shared with me and sent to me and shocked to continue to read 232 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,320 about it, even though like I already read it, right? 233 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:13,760 She sent it to me. I read it. 234 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:19,080 I was like, whoa, that's insane. And then to continue to see this 235 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,320 metric in different ways. You know, sometimes you, you 236 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,680 think about one in four, it's like, what is that 25%? 237 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,040 You put four people in a room, one person experienced it. 238 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:32,160 You know, statistically speaking, it's just really, 239 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,400 really stark. And I think that when we think 240 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,400 about that, it helps us hopefully to understand the 241 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:44,560 prevalence and the importance of supporting people who might 242 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,800 experience this or might have experienced this in their lives. 243 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:57,080 And I think part of helping and supporting people in our first 244 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,400 of all leaders and HR leaders might well might experience this 245 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,480 themselves, right? So there is a, an element here 246 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:10,120 where again, we can kind of understand this HR is also the 247 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,040 employee type of, you know, predicament, right? 248 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,480 Where maybe someone who's, who's the decision maker on some of 249 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:22,320 these things is also the, the person impacted by these, these 250 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,800 things that we either roll out, whether they're benefits or 251 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,280 leave options, whatever that might be. 252 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,040 But there there's a practical framework that I think we can 253 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,560 apply here. So first, when we find out that 254 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:41,760 someone has experienced loss, there's of course this element 255 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,400 of like how do we support them in taking the time that they 256 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,720 need? And we'll talk about that from a 257 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,240 regulatory standpoint and you know, law specific standpoint 258 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,560 and from AUS framework. But let's assume they've they've 259 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,680 gotten that support, right. There's the stage of what 260 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,760 happens before they return and while they're on leave, what 261 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,600 that looks like. And the the biggest takeaways I 262 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:10,240 think are that we have to stay in contact in a compassionate 263 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,440 way. We shouldn't be overbearing. 264 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:17,080 We shouldn't be micromanaging. We should probably ask how they 265 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,200 prefer communication, how frequently they prefer 266 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,640 communication. We should be offering 267 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,440 flexibility for medical or mental health appointments and 268 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:32,200 set up a one-on-one meeting when they're ready to return and give 269 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,400 them a bit of control over their timing and their boundaries and 270 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,280 what they need. And ultimately, when it shifts 271 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:45,160 from the pre return to actually returning the, the having a 272 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:52,560 private conversation before they rejoin, which hopefully is 273 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:58,440 focused on a ramp up process. And you know this, if there 274 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,880 should be a, a collaborative approach to this ask. 275 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,960 And frankly, this is important even when someone's returning 276 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:10,359 from maternity or paternity leave, that when people come 277 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,560 back, there has to be this collaborative. 278 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,240 OK, what does your ramp backup look like? 279 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,960 How, what's reasonable? Are you coming back part time to 280 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:20,920 start? Are you coming back reduced 281 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,079 hours? Are you coming back full time, 282 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:24,839 like full speed ahead? What does that look like? 283 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:31,280 And to clarify if also if their loss is going to be something 284 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,680 that they plan to communicate or that they want to communicate 285 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,880 because this is a medical condition, a medical 286 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,960 circumstance. And so it's important that 287 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,880 confidentiality is considered here as well. 288 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,080 There is definitely no one-size-fits-all approach to 289 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,560 handling this. And everything kind of relies on 290 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,520 this again, this collaboration and how the person feels 291 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,160 returning when they're on the job and when they're back. 292 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:06,000 There should be check insurance for sure, you know there maybe 293 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,760 we consider for these folks having mental health support 294 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,680 schedule flexibility, therapy times, things like that, reduced 295 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,280 workload. And also there has to be some 296 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,440 element where managers are trained on how to listen, how to 297 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,760 validate feelings and how to avoid harmful phrases. 298 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:32,280 And this, I find, is best when or best executed when managers 299 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,600 are given a bit of like a talk track or scripts because that's 300 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,280 how you can kind of coach a little bit. 301 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,640 And it also helps them to understand the empathetic 302 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:46,160 approach that they need to take. And then, you know, naturally 303 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:51,080 there's this additional layer here where we can think about 304 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,760 reproductive loss, pregnancy, infant loss in bereavement and 305 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,320 leave policies explicitly stating those things. 306 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:06,360 In my research, I was finding that when those types of losses 307 00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:10,520 are explicitly stated, people are generally a little bit more 308 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,920 open about saying they need that time because otherwise it's kind 309 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,600 of like, oh, bereavement is for parents, spouses, siblings and 310 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:25,640 maybe whoever else, right? But if it doesn't say, you know, 311 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,840 reproductive loss, that maybe it feels like they're a little bit 312 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,560 isolated in that in that sense and that they they're not 313 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:39,040 covered by that type of policy. And so creating that type of 314 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:44,040 explicit policy can potentially help in people feeling more 315 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,200 supported. Depending on the size of your 316 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:52,240 company, if you can create peer networks or a a lost parent 317 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,280 support group, this is also something that can really help 318 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,680 people as they acclimate to their new way of living. 319 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,640 And then also, of course, sharing external resources like 320 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,600 grief support, lost specific therapist, other, you know, 321 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,560 types of group. Therapies outside of work or 322 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,280 group networks outside of work that can also be really helpful. 323 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:22,440 And again, a formal lost leave policy or policies around 324 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,840 bereavement time for reproductive loss can help again 325 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,040 signal this element of psychological safety and 326 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:34,400 normalizes the conversation. And finally, when we think about 327 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,960 communication and training, you know, there's an element here 328 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,960 where we have to train ourselves and we have to learn ourselves 329 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,920 how to best support people like we're doing today. 330 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,760 I've learned a lot, for example. But then also how do we take 331 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,080 that learning and then train others? 332 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,720 How do we train HR and people, leaders and other, you know, 333 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,800 people within the business? Maybe every year, maybe every 334 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,960 other year, depending on the the need. 335 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,320 And naturally as you look to update your handbooks and your 336 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,760 policies, including things like this can be really important. 337 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,920 And, and it is really important. Maybe there's an opportunity to 338 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,800 invite a guest speaker, whether it's a parent or a grief 339 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,400 counselor. Because again, when we think 340 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,640 about the prevalence of one in four pregnancies ending in loss, 341 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,440 that's pretty significant. And it's, it probably suffice to 342 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,720 say that you'll have a, you'll have a cohort interested in 343 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,600 hearing more, especially if we think about, OK, you know, 50, 344 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,280 maybe 50% of the workforce is female. 345 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,800 If one in four women are experiencing pregnancy loss, 346 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:55,480 it's pretty sizable. So let's shift gears a little 347 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,120 bit and talk about some of the legal and regulatory 348 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,840 considerations here. Again, this is AUS focus. 349 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,800 I know there are countries around the world that do a 350 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:11,080 really good job of looking at reproductive loss as part of 351 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,160 their regulations and part of their considerations in terms 352 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,240 of, you know, where the the law protects people. 353 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,440 But it is definitely essential for HR, no matter what 354 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,680 nationality, to understand what the law requires and where 355 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,760 organizations can go above and beyond that regulation. 356 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,520 So of course, from a federal national level, FMLA or the 357 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,400 Family and Medical Leave Act does frequently qualify. 358 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,520 Not frequently, but pregnancy loss does qualify or often 359 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,240 qualifies as a serious health condition. 360 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:53,720 I think that it probably depends on where in the pregnancy it 361 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,360 qualifies. I think that's why the the 362 00:22:56,360 --> 00:23:01,000 language says often qualifies. So if this is something that 363 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,040 applies to you or you're interested in learning more, I 364 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,240 would certainly encourage you to reach out to your benefits 365 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,680 provider to learn a little bit more benefits and leave 366 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,080 provider. But pregnancy loss often 367 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,800 qualifies as a serious health condition, making the employee 368 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,640 eligible for up to 12 weeks of unpaid job protected leave if 369 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,640 they meet the eligibility. Eligibility conditions, of 370 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,160 course, mean that the employer has over 50 employees within 75 371 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,320 miles and that the employee themselves have worked 1250 372 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,240 hours and they've been employed for at least one year. 373 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,920 So if all of those things are met and the pregnancy loss 374 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,760 qualifies as a serious health condition, then they likely 375 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,880 would be eligible. There's also the Pregnant 376 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,840 Workers Fairness Act, or PWFA, which requires employers with 15 377 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,600 or more employees to provide reasonable accommodations for 378 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,400 pregnancy, childbirth and related medical conditions, 379 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,320 including those arising from a pregnancy loss, unless there's 380 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,680 undue hardship on the business. Naturally, any business can 381 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,120 argue that there's undue hardship. 382 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:10,960 However, I would hope that businesses would see this type 383 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:16,120 of loss as one that, you know, it would benefit them to make 384 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:21,080 the accommodation and leave or time off can be an 385 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,840 accommodation, for example, if it's reasonable. 386 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:29,240 And reasonability, of course, as we know, is very subjective 387 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,320 based on the business and based on the needs of the business. 388 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,160 But this is where you should know your rights and you should 389 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:40,720 know exactly what you might need so that you can, you know, lean 390 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,440 into the the to these acts that are set out to protect you and 391 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,600 provide you support. There's also the Pregnancy 392 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,760 Discrimination Act, PDAA, different kind of PDA to add 393 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,640 some levity here. And so the Pregnancy 394 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,920 Discrimination Act says that miscarriage or other pregnancy 395 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:03,480 related loss is considered a pregnancy related medical 396 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,960 condition. Employers cannot discriminate or 397 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,320 penalize employees for needing recovery or leave. 398 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,560 So this does protect people from discrimination. 399 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,960 And so when we think about this, I'm talking a lot about 400 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,120 pregnancy and pregnancy loss, pregnancy discrimination, things 401 00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:22,280 like that. If it comes to down to someone 402 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,880 experiencing infant loss, this is where bereavement policies 403 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:27,960 are going to be really important. 404 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,440 And we'll talk a little bit about that. 405 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,080 But I do think, you know, this is, you know, this is where 406 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,840 there's a bit of a Gray area because infant loss, any kind of 407 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:42,320 loss can then result in, you know, mental health challenges, 408 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,080 struggles, right, physical, mental and emotional, frankly. 409 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:50,000 And that's where then if that person you know is experiencing 410 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,600 challenges mentally, physically, emotionally, that they could be 411 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,040 accommodated for those things. So the accommodation for 412 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,200 pregnancy related loss is more medical because of the person 413 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,440 who is experiencing the pregnancy and then experiencing 414 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,000 the loss as a result. Not always as a result, 415 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,160 obviously, but one in 4 * 1 in four pregnancies are 416 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,280 experiencing, one in four pregnancies are resulting in 417 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,080 loss. So these people are experiencing 418 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:23,080 this fairly commonly, and then should someone experience infant 419 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,680 loss, it would be more about their own, probably their own 420 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:33,480 medical condition as a result of that loss, whereas the loss is 421 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,400 considered a medical condition. Hopefully that makes sense. 422 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,680 It makes sense in my head, but I hope I'm articulating that OK. 423 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,920 Also, unlike some countries, there is no federal requirement 424 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,840 in the US for bereavement leave in private employment. 425 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,000 So this is where, again, when we think about companies going 426 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:56,680 above and beyond, they would make an impact here to include, 427 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:02,520 you know, bereavement leaves or policies that go outside of what 428 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,280 the government might required require, which the government 429 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,080 requires nothing. So anything you give is better 430 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,400 than nothing. Some states have enacted 431 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,760 statutes that explicitly include or may be interpreted to include 432 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,400 reproductive loss or bereavement leave. 433 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,480 And so a few examples are that California has a reproductive 434 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,600 loss leave and they require employers with five or more 435 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,080 employees to provide up to five days of protected leave for a 436 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,280 reproductive loss event like miscarriage, stillbirth, failed 437 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,840 adoption or unsuccessful assisted reproduction within the 438 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,360 the three first three months of the event. 439 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,160 So within the there's a a loss in a particular month, three 440 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,520 months within that that three months, that's when they would 441 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,560 be able to receive the five days of protected leave. 442 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,120 The leave may be non consecutive and employees can use accrued 443 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,360 sick or vacation time. And the law does prohibit 444 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:02,080 retaliation or discrimination for exercising those rights. 445 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,480 In Illinois, they have a Family Bereavement Leave Act, which has 446 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,760 been effective since January 1st, 2023, as a matter of fact. 447 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,160 And it expands on prior bereavement leaves leave laws, 448 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,200 excuse me, to cover pregnancy loss, failed adoption, 449 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,120 surrogacy, etcetera. And employees ultimately may 450 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:22,520 take up to 10 working days or two weeks of unpaid leave to 451 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,480 grieve or make arrangements. And employers can request 452 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,000 reasonable documentation, of course, but employees don't need 453 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,640 to disclose the nature of the event. 454 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:36,000 In Oregon, there is a requirement for employers with 455 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,960 25 or more employees to provide up to two weeks of unpaid 456 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:45,280 bereavement leave per event. And those days of leave or weeks 457 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,120 of leave, I should say, must be taken within 60 days. 458 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,040 So again, at the, you know, when the loss event happens within 459 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,440 that first two months, I'm going to continue with a couple other 460 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,360 states here. Washington state says that all 461 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,960 employers must provide paid bereavement leave in certain 462 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,640 cases, including pregnancy loss. And in Maryland, employers with 463 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:12,720 15 or more employees must allow the use of a crude leave for 464 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,360 bereavement. In other states like Colorado, 465 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,880 Tennessee, etcetera, they have introduced or debated 466 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,640 bereavement or reproductive lost leave laws. 467 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,400 So I didn't go too, too deep into every state because there 468 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:31,480 are 50, but I would encourage you to wherever you have 469 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:37,200 employees, look at what their their reproductive loss laws 470 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,800 are, what their bereavement loss, bereavement leave laws are 471 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,320 so that you can best support the teams that you have in those 472 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,280 locations. And if you yourself need support 473 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,880 or need, you know, access to this type of protection, you 474 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,400 should certainly know the the rights that you have based on 475 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,480 the, the state that you reside in. 476 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,760 In many states, leave under bereavement statutes statutes is 477 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,880 unpaid. As we can understand, however, 478 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,240 employees can often use accrued paid leave, and this is pretty 479 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,560 standard. A lot of companies do offer paid 480 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,360 bereavement leave, although maybe it's a little bit more 481 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,680 minimal in the number of days. But I, I would argue that 482 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,480 pregnancy and infant loss probably require a few more days 483 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,200 than your typical bereavement leave because it is so not. 484 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:35,600 I mean, certainly loss can be very unexpected in any case, 485 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,200 right? Unexpected, untimely, all of 486 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,040 those things. But it does maybe feel a little 487 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,800 bit different if it's pregnancy or infant related. 488 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,720 But maybe that's just because I'm in the throes of this topic 489 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,840 right now. But in general, when someone 490 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:57,280 experiences a loss of any kind that is premature, unexpected, 491 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,080 untimely, there should, you know, there should probably be 492 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,720 exceptions to some of the rules that companies have. 493 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:10,320 Like if a company has five paid bereavement days, well, maybe if 494 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,360 someone needs 15, maybe you just give them 15, have them use 495 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,160 their sick time, have them use their PTO. 496 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,600 That's fine. But you know, maybe go above and 497 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:24,760 beyond for people when we think about some of the legal 498 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,520 considerations here. I just want to mention that if 499 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,600 an employee's grief or recovery qualifies as a serious health 500 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:35,760 condition, denying their leave or accommodation requests under 501 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,760 the FMLA or Americans with Disability Act, ADA, could lead 502 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,640 to legal exposure. So make sure that you are really 503 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,760 thinking through everything and potentially taking a partner 504 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,640 either in an additional HR partner or a legal partner. 505 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,840 Mental health or depression post lost weight may also entitle 506 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,880 accommodations under disability law, which is kind of what I was 507 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,880 talking about when it came to the infant loss side of things. 508 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,040 There's a lot of intersectionality in this topic, 509 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,760 so be really mindful as you make your decisions so that you can 510 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,920 make sure that you're not only compliant but also reasonable. 511 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,400 And when it comes to documentation, some states allow 512 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,560 or require reasonable documentation, whereas others do 513 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,840 not require proof. So be really clear about the 514 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,480 state specific requirements here. 515 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,400 And then finally, denial of leave, a demotion, negative 516 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,200 treatment after a loss may all violate the Pregnancy Workers 517 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,280 Fairness Act, PWFA, the Pregnancy Disability Act, PA, or 518 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,360 state anti discrimination statutes. 519 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:49,560 So again, be really, really specific, intentional, clear 520 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,920 about any decision that you might make. 521 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,640 And you know, when we think about kind of coming full circle 522 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:03,120 to how we help other leaders navigate supporting their teams, 523 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,120 I think there are a few things to just kind of remember and 524 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,440 keep in mind. Again, one in four pregnancies 525 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,520 ends in loss. And when we think about the 526 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:18,280 language that we attribute to someone is sharing with us that 527 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,480 they've experienced this, language matters. 528 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,560 Avoid phrases like you should be over this. 529 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,600 Avoid phrases like you can move on. 530 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,000 Instead, say, I'm so sorry or take the time you need or how 531 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,600 can we best support you? You know, this is frankly, 532 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,000 nobody cares about what you think. 533 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,120 Everybody cares about how that person feels. 534 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:44,200 So the business leader in this context has to remove their own 535 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,080 needs from this situation and think about what their person 536 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,800 needs, You know, whether there's a, when we think about the 537 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,000 cultural elements here, maybe there's a remembrance e-mail, 538 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,600 maybe you send flowers, maybe there's some sort of 539 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,560 acknowledgement for this loss, a safe space meeting, something 540 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,880 like that. I know in my experiences, you 541 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,800 know, helping people navigate loss, we send flowers or we make 542 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,800 a donation or we plant a tree. Like there's so many things that 543 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,880 you can do that don't costs $1,000,000 and really make a 544 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:26,760 huge impact for that person. Also, normalize referring people 545 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,040 to resources. Provide names of therapists, 546 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:35,760 grief groups, support groups, employee resource groups, have 547 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,960 hire someone that they can talk to. 548 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,280 I mean, there's so many things that we can do to refer our 549 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,920 teams to the right people who can help them navigate these 550 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,639 types of losses, celebrate their courage, acknowledge that 551 00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:53,280 returning to work after such a loss is an act of strength. 552 00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:55,480 And it doesn't mean the pain is gone. 553 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,560 And it doesn't mean it's going to be any easier, but that 554 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,040 they've returned. And this is, you know, something 555 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,200 that they're navigating every single day. 556 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,320 And that acknowledgement will probably help them as well. 557 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,200 And then finally, you know, thinking about how we can 558 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,120 support people before they ask for support, it's through policy 559 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,120 changes and transparency. Make your loss and bereavement 560 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,400 policies visible, clearly worded, accessible in handbooks 561 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,040 or the intranet that you might have. 562 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:30,200 Include pregnancy, infant, or reproductive loss in your 563 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,400 policies and encourage continuous learning. 564 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,280 Revisit the policies annually. Solicit feedback from employees 565 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,400 who've navigated loss to figure out what could we be doing 566 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:42,400 better? What could we be doing 567 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,280 different? What could we be doing? 568 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:51,560 All of those things should help to enable people navigating the 569 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:57,800 circumstance to feel most supported and not feel as this 570 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:02,560 particular listener did, in such a way where if that didn't 571 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,000 exist, that they wouldn't be able to return to work. 572 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,440 You know, thinking about again, the magnitude and the 573 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,600 prevalence, we need all of these people experiencing this type of 574 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,840 loss to feel supported. Otherwise, there's a huge, 575 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:22,600 there's a huge gap at the in the workplace, there's a huge loss 576 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,280 in talent because companies failed to support their people. 577 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:32,840 So hopefully this topic, while certainly heavy in its weight, 578 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,720 helped you to think a little bit differently maybe about your own 579 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:38,560 policies. It's actually a really good time 580 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,800 to think about this because it is the end of the calendar year 581 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,160 and generally companies start to look at their policies and 582 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,200 handbooks now for a fresh start in the new year. 583 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,560 And so maybe this is maybe adding one phrase like 584 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,280 reproductive loss in your bereavement policy, or adding an 585 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,080 additional policy or adding a bereavement leave policy. 586 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,280 All of those things can really go a long way. 587 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,520 So hopefully you're walking away with some new information. 588 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,480 Maybe you're walking away feeling supported yourself. 589 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,720 Maybe you're walking away understanding someone you know 590 00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:15,520 or a loved one a little bit more deeply or maybe a colleague more 591 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,400 deeply. And so with that, I really just 592 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,360 want to say thank you again to this particular listener who 593 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,240 suggested the topic and who shared her stories so 594 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,720 vulnerably. It's allowed us to talk about a 595 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:33,320 really important subject and hopefully educate, like I said, 596 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,880 not just myself, but others who have listened to this episode as 597 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,960 well. So thank you all so much for 598 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,040 tuning in this week. Tons of great episodes ahead. 599 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,400 And like I said, lots of guest episodes, but really amazing 600 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,080 guests who are bringing a ton of value, I think, to the podcast. 601 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,840 So please leave your comments in the whether you're listening on 602 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,280 Spotify or YouTube, if you're watching this on Spotify or 603 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,040 YouTube, send me an e-mail at contact at hrtracy.com rate 604 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,800 review, subscribe, whatever you have to do. 605 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,360 Let me know your feedback. Thank you so much for tuning in 606 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,480 and thank you again to my listener for sharing her story. 607 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,280 We will chat soon. Take care everybody see you next 608 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,440 week. Hey, just before you go, don't 609 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,240 forget to subscribe to the show so that you are the first to 610 00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:26,000 hear when an episode drops each week and maybe leave a five star 611 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,560 review and a comment about how much you love this episode. 612 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,360 Plus, if you have someone in mind who would really enjoy this 613 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,000 episode, make sure you share it with them. 614 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,960 Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you next week.