1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 Welcome to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,800 podcast. I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,240 spent my entire professional career in HR. 4 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,840 Each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,840 and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create 6 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,720 meaningful outcomes. Listen in as I share my own 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,560 experiences, challenge the status quo, and chat with guests 8 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,560 from various industries about our mission to bring the human 9 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,560 back to human resources. Hi everyone. 10 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,800 Welcome back to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources 11 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,400 podcast. Thank you so much for being here 12 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,000 for another week. This episode is very exciting 13 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,840 because we're talking all about career transitions and there are 14 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,240 so many of you who have reached out before about getting into 15 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,000 HR, breaking into HR. It's a topic that we talked 16 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,120 quite a bit about and so we'll touch on that and we'll touch on 17 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,720 other things too, which which you'll hear. 18 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,920 And I say we because I have Karen Worthy with me. 19 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:54,480 She is an executive career transition coach, helping 20 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,200 leaders define their goals and land their dream role. 21 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,720 Her approach is often practical and tactical, stemming from her 22 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,920 background that includes engineering, operations, supply 23 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,520 chain, recruiting, and HR. And yes, we will work to uncover 24 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,800 and understand how Karen did all of those things and ultimately 25 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,040 got into HR because that is an important part of this. 26 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,440 She has LED organizations within multiple Fortune 50 companies 27 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,120 like Amazon and Procter and Gamble, as well as multiple 28 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,440 startup companies. Her hands on approach with her 29 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,720 clients helps them accelerate their job search, often landing 30 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,160 them roles in half the time of their peers. 31 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,880 And time is money. She specializes in everything 32 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,640 from personal branding to networking for the search, 33 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,600 interview preparation, salary negotiations and more. 34 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,120 Karen, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here. 35 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:44,840 Hi, Tracy. I am so, so happy to be here and 36 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,920 just listening to that intro it. I'm like, I don't, I guess I've 37 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,280 done all that stuff, but it's so weird listening to somebody else 38 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,120 like intro you. Totally is. 39 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,720 This is like the number one thing that guests say to me is 40 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,280 that they're like, whoa, I did all of that. 41 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,040 And also, like, it's really weird to hear someone talk about 42 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,200 what I've done. And I, I always say, and the 43 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,479 listeners are totally used to me saying this, that it's so 44 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:12,680 important to hear all of the accomplishments that you've 45 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,440 achieved, you know, and all of the things that you've done. 46 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,120 Because it's very hard to remember all of those things, 47 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,280 you know, when you're living your life every single day. 48 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,320 And and then finally someone tells you all the things that 49 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,000 you've done. You're like, Oh yeah, that's 50 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,760 kind of cool. It's so true. 51 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,480 I, I often see that with clients as I'm working with them on like 52 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,600 resumes or interview prep or something, we'll be reflecting 53 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,760 back on what they've done and at the end of the session they'll 54 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,600 be like, wow, I guess I have done more than I thought I did. 55 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,920 And I'm sure you see that as well when you work with folks. 56 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,200 Totally, totally, totally. I mean, when I, when I help 57 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,880 people with their resumes also, it's like, you know, you go 58 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,360 through this exercise of digging more information out of them, 59 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,320 Like what have you really done? Not like what's on your resume, 60 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,440 but what have you actually done? What have you actually achieved? 61 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,960 And so often the things that feel like the minutia are 62 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,200 actually like big deals. And I, I think it's important to 63 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:14,400 have that awareness at some point and probably throughout 64 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,840 our careers pretty regularly that there, there are so many 65 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,840 things that, that we all achieve and we don't necessarily reflect 66 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,680 on them and, and, and realize all that. 67 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,840 So I think it's a very important exercise. 68 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,680 And so with that, I'd love to maybe start again with kind of 69 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,800 understanding how you got into HR because there are a ton of 70 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,840 industries and kind of backgrounds that I that I read 71 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,680 off in your bio, but if you could walk us through all of 72 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,080 that. Yeah, I'll give you the the 73 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,720 short version to start with and then feel free to dig in as much 74 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,560 or as little as you want or as makes sense. 75 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,800 So I I started very much wanting to, I grew up. 76 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,840 I wanted to be like my dad. He was an engineer. 77 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,960 I went there engineering school, have a very, I have a accounting 78 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,040 mom and an engineering dad. So I'm a very math, numbers, 79 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,000 technical oriented person from the roots. 80 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,640 Knew I wanted to do something with people as well, even at an 81 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,120 early stage though. So I went in and I was a leader 82 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,680 at Procter and Gamble within the manufacturing operations space 83 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,640 using my engineering degree and my desire to work with people. 84 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:23,120 I did that, absolutely loved it. That led me to a variety of 85 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,600 different roles and companies, culminating like moving from 86 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,440 manufacturing over to supply chain, working at small 87 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,200 companies, working at Amazon and part of their fulfillment 88 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,440 center. Still very much in the core 89 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,600 operations, though not in the HR side. 90 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,360 And if you had asked me then do I want it to be HR? 91 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,640 Was I going to end up in HR? I would have said absolutely 92 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:45,440 not. I was not in my career path. 93 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,760 I didn't know that I wanted it. I really didn't even know what 94 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,000 HR did at that point. I knew that they were helpful, 95 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,440 but I had no idea what happened behind the scenes. 96 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,920 And what really changed is I moved over into a startup, still 97 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,640 on the operations side, but I moved over into a startup. 98 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,200 And about halfway through my time there, they were having 99 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,880 really, really big growth forecasted. 100 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,480 And we were trying to figure out how we were going to accommodate 101 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,680 that. And part of the thought process 102 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,400 was we're going through and we're doing readiness checks for 103 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,360 all the different departments, all the different teams. 104 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,880 And we were in the spot where we had a very good recruiting team, 105 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,000 but needed more leadership on that team. 106 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,400 And they tapped me on, I was the fix it girl. 107 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,520 I was the one that like ran towards whatever was broken and 108 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,520 whatever needed help. And they tapped me on the 109 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,040 shoulder And they were like, I know you've never done 110 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,600 recruiting, but could you just come help us out for three 111 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,360 months and jump in and help fix some stuff? 112 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,160 And I did that. I had no idea what I was getting 113 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,160 into, but I'm so glad that I did. 114 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,520 I did that and I fell in love with recruiting and I fell in 115 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,840 love with the HR team because the recruiting team in our 116 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:52,680 organization was part of the HR team. 117 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,040 And so I started learning more about HR because I was in more 118 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:57,760 meetings with them. I was talking with them. 119 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,960 I started picking up pieces of HR and what started as a three 120 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:06,000 month, hey, come over and do a temporary role turned into a 121 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,880 pivot in my career. It turned into a transition 122 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,760 where I figured out that I really loved the ability to have 123 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,800 a positive impact on the employees both from inside the 124 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,840 company from an HR point of view, but also the candidate 125 00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:23,080 experience and the pre employment experience and the 126 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,880 onboarding experience. And there were so many really, 127 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,520 really fun things that we got to do that I never got the chance 128 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,200 to do from an operations point of view. 129 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,840 And so three months in recruiting as a helper turned 130 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:38,440 into eventually AVP of HR for this organization and kind of 131 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,360 running the whole gamut. And that has been a very pivotal 132 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:43,920 turning point in my career for sure. 133 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,040 Wow. I mean, it's, it's really 134 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,560 amazing to hear your story and it doesn't always happen that 135 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,600 way. You know, people often want to 136 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,160 break into HR and they don't know how or they don't know 137 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,560 where to start. And I think what's cool, really 138 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,200 cool about your story is that someone you know saw in you 139 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,320 these effectively these transferable skills, like what 140 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,800 you were capable of doing outside of recruiting in HR and 141 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:14,120 how they were able to have you apply those skills to recruiting 142 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:19,040 and then ultimately HR. And I think for some, you know, 143 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,800 the question might be, Oh my gosh, how do you become a VP of 144 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,680 HR when you didn't have any background or school, right? 145 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,160 Like all these things always come up. 146 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,000 I mean, we see job posts all the time. 147 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,680 I'm sure you do, where it's like, you know, an HR job 148 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,480 someone's hiring for you must have, could be an entry level 149 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:36,960 role, must have five years of experience. 150 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,680 And it's like, well, how does someone get into HR if there's 151 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,200 no real true zero to two kind of expectation? 152 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:52,120 And I do think it's important to note that so much of what I 153 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,320 think makes for a really strong HR leader is the ability to 154 00:07:55,320 --> 00:08:01,040 learn on the job and to take each new experience as a 155 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,880 learning opportunity. And so I can only imagine all 156 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,600 the things that you learned throughout your career once you 157 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,280 made that, that final, that ultimate pivot. 158 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,800 Yeah, right, right. So I think it's, I think it's 159 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,480 really inspiring, actually. And, and so many HR leaders say 160 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,440 that they just kind of fell into their HR careers and they didn't 161 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,080 expect it. They didn't plan on it. 162 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,760 But really when we say that we're talking about like career 163 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,160 transitions and pivots as you, as you put it. 164 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,520 And so to kind of give that a little bit of life. 165 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,919 I'm curious like when you're working with, you know, your 166 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:39,880 clients and things like that, if, if people are saying, well, 167 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,760 I want to make this career transition, where do you start? 168 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,960 Do you look for those transferable skills? 169 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,480 Do you help them to identify how they talk about their skills and 170 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,920 how they like, you know, kind of depict like their ability to 171 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,440 make that pivot? Where do you start That's. 172 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,360 Such a great question. I think it depends a little bit 173 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,760 on where they're at. So if you are it's I will say 174 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,200 it's easier to do if you're still inside of a company, still 175 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,240 employed. Not that you can't do it the 176 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,440 other way, but it is easier to do like I did that way. 177 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:15,200 What I would start with is I would start by having a very 178 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,600 open conversation with somebody who is doing the role that you 179 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,320 think you might want to go do. Maybe this is somebody inside 180 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,320 your company, Maybe this is somebody at a different company. 181 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,840 If you don't have that person inside your company, but if you 182 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,120 think you want to transition into HR, find some people who 183 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,480 are actually doing HR and go ask them what they do day-to-day. 184 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:33,920 Ask them what they like about their role. 185 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,160 Ask them questions that you might have. 186 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,080 Because if you're not actually in it, you usually see only a 187 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:41,960 one piece of it. You don't see all the other 188 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,480 pieces of it. And so go learn a little bit 189 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,800 more about how they got there and about what it takes to be 190 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,720 successful in that role. And that can help you to start 191 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,840 to piece the puzzle together a little bit around, OK, they're 192 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,520 when they are talking about doing this role, they're talking 193 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,400 about doing this, this and this. Here's how my skills transfer 194 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,240 into those types of things. And so it no longer is an HR 195 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,400 generalist or an HR specialist or an HR business partner and 196 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,240 said it is I'm doing this activity and I'm doing this 197 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:13,920 activity. I'm doing this activity, one of 198 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,320 my best and favorite recruiters ever. 199 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,600 And even some of our HR folks, they came from other areas in 200 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,720 the organization because they had the same transferable 201 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,440 skills. So one of our best recruiters 202 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:28,360 came from our sales organization because it's a very similar 203 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,800 funnel and process. As you go into the thing, 204 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,280 instead of selling company products, you're selling the 205 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,720 company to individuals. It's a very similar process. 206 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:38,440 Wow. And so think about those 207 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,320 transferable skills. Yeah, I, I love how you put it 208 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:46,080 in and I totally agree that when you are doing this within an 209 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,080 existing company, it is so much easier. 210 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,880 I've worked with a lot of clients who have been able to 211 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,560 successfully pivot through their, you know, current 212 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:57,040 employer. In fact, it's how I started my 213 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:58,840 HR career. I started, I was working at 214 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,480 Target, I started in like the kind of like the customer 215 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,720 service space and it was like guest experience was the title. 216 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:10,720 And when I, I don't know, I was maybe 4 or 6 months in, they 217 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,760 were like, oh, you know, there's, you know, you should 218 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,880 really think about HR. You really think about HR. 219 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,640 And I at the whole time I was like, well, maybe I'll think 220 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,640 about store management instead. And, and it was this whole thing 221 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,840 and I always cite my dad who was like, you should really think 222 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,320 about HR. It's going to like open up all 223 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,120 these opportunities for you, even though obviously being in 224 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,480 retail management, that also opens up opportunities. 225 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,560 But he was like, you can go outside of retail with HR, you 226 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:35,520 can do anything that you want. And it was really great advice. 227 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:40,440 And I was like, OK, yeah. And it was because my manager 228 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,560 and my HR colleague, to your point, like, you know, working 229 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:47,720 and finding someone who is in the job that you potentially 230 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,800 want, they were like, you'd be really good at this. 231 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:56,000 And that was how I ended up in HR only like 4 to 6 months after 232 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,600 my first, you know, experience outside of college, you know, 233 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:00,720 and it's. Fairly common. 234 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:02,920 Yeah, Yeah, it, it is. It is. 235 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,840 And I think I think that the more people are willing to like 236 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,200 put themselves out there like you described yourself as the 237 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,240 fix it girl. And to me, that's like really 238 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,520 being able to go above and beyond for cross functionally 239 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,840 for any part of the business, whatever that might mean. 240 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,960 And when people see a team player, they're like, oh, we 241 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,200 have to invest in this person. So I do think that there is 242 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,400 there are a lot of elements there that listeners can walk 243 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,760 away with saying, oh, yeah, I, I, I do that or I can do more of 244 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,280 that. And maybe I need to be a little 245 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:35,440 bit more kind of in the weeds with everybody rather than just 246 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,680 sticking to my own thing. And so kind of coming back to 247 00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:44,560 this, you know, transitioning and, you know, within our 248 00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:48,160 careers and making these pivots. I, I do want to spend a little 249 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:54,560 bit of time talking about this challenge that is getting into 250 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,720 companies when you don't have the experience and you want, and 251 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,400 you're looking, you know, to apply from the outside in and 252 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,240 you're trying to get into a particular company. 253 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,080 What, what would, is your advice to people if they're trying to 254 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,080 make a career transition, maybe they're even trying to 255 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,560 transition outside of HR and they want to, you know, go into 256 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:16,720 a different industry, let alone a different type of career. 257 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,160 How do they how do they climb that mountain? 258 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,440 So the very similar concepts really apply here. 259 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,240 So like if you think about the patterns that both you and I 260 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,960 experienced as we made our career transitions, our career 261 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,040 pivots, somebody believed in US and that somebody helped open up 262 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,040 the door. And so you can have that even if 263 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,400 you don't, even if you have no job right now, even if you're in 264 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,080 transition, you're not 100% sure what you want to do. 265 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,400 There are people out there that believe in you. 266 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,000 And so the first thing I do with my folks when I'm working with 267 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,600 them is we will typically sit down and make a list of 268 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,200 everybody that you think believes in past bosses, past Co 269 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,000 workers, family, friends, mentors, what doesn't matter 270 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,200 what they're doing or where they are right now, Start with the 271 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,080 list of everybody. They're your champions. 272 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,640 Start with your list of your champions. 273 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,440 They can open doors for you. It's not that you can't do it 274 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,840 without this list and without these people, but it's so much 275 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,160 easier if you start with these people because they made. 276 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,280 And most of the times people will say, oh, well, like I have 277 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,840 this list of champions. Maybe you have 5-10 people on 278 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,040 this list, but none of them work at places I want to work. 279 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,320 And so I'm out of luck. And so usually what they don't 280 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,000 understand is this list of champions cannot just open doors 281 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,800 for you at their company. They can introduce you to other 282 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,720 people. They can open doors for you to 283 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,480 other companies, to other people. 284 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,600 And almost always it's not actually your champions that 285 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,440 hire you. It's your champions that 286 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,120 introduce you to somebody who then introduces you to somebody 287 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,120 who hires you. But that transference of trust 288 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,360 and that transference of respect keeps going through the chain, 289 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,640 and it helps so tremendously. You don't know where it's going 290 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,960 to end up. Yeah, I love this idea of list 291 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,640 of champions. That's such a great kind of like 292 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,160 bookmark to make in our minds. And, and I hope that all of us 293 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,960 were thinking like, oh, as you were saying that, oh, who are my 294 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,200 champions? Like who can I call tomorrow or 295 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,040 today and say I really need your support or this is what I'm 296 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,960 looking to do. Do you know anybody, is there 297 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,320 anything you can do to support me? 298 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,360 And the reality is, is that your list of champions, they're going 299 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,440 to say, yes, they're going to find somewhere there somehow to 300 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,200 support you. And I also think about the 301 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,760 reciprocal effects of this is that like, you know, meaning 302 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,160 that hopefully one day we can be on that list of champions for 303 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,280 someone else and, and part of their kind of network. 304 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,880 And, and when I think about something that is an important 305 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,960 topic for you, which is this idea of building community, and 306 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,640 that community is a big part of how people can successfully 307 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,840 pivot in their careers. I think this is underpinning 308 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:54,240 that, that when you do invest in the relationships that you have 309 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:59,200 or that you, you know, work to maintain, there's symbiotic 310 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,800 relationship to be had that they want to support you and you have 311 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,440 a way to support them potentially in the future as 312 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,200 well. And so when we think about 313 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:13,440 community, where do you see community having an impact, 314 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,520 especially, you know, maybe it's maybe it's twofold like in in 315 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,520 one particular organization, like if you need a community 316 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,000 while you are actively working for a company and or the 317 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,800 community that kind of lives outside of that particular 318 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:32,200 organization. Yeah, I think that like human 319 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,720 being, as human beings, we are social creatures typically. 320 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,840 And so you want to find your communities because it's going 321 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,040 to help from so many different aspects. 322 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,200 So a lot of times, like I was guilty of this too when I was 323 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:44,720 working in corporate and in startups. 324 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,520 My community was my Co workers for the most part. 325 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,440 And I was really not very good back then of how do I go meet 326 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,080 people that are not my Co workers? 327 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,980 How do I go Like I had I had friends and family and I had Co 328 00:16:55,980 --> 00:16:57,960 workers. I didn't have other professional 329 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,600 contacts that were outside of my particular company and if I 330 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,400 could go back, I would have done it differently. 331 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,480 I urge you if wherever you are, it's not too late to do it 332 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,599 differently. If you're starting out, your 333 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:14,200 career started on the right foot and start by meeting people and 334 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,319 finding your communities that make sense for you. 335 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:20,119 If you are 3040 years into your career, it's still not too late. 336 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,480 I work with folks who are 5-10 years from retirement in some 337 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,960 cases and they're still just finding their communities and 338 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,200 it's not too late and it works really, really well then too. 339 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,880 But the earlier you start, the better. 340 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,720 And so like thinking about, I will usually tell folks that you 341 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,240 want to have at least two to three communities that you're 342 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,760 part of at any given point. So you want to have one that is 343 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,560 very functionally focused. So you in for our listeners 344 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,720 here, like you might have an HR community that works for you and 345 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,160 there's a lot of really good ones out there. 346 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,760 So pick one that makes sense for you. 347 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,760 You probably want to have something that is speaks to 348 00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:59,320 either who you are and who you identify with or what some of 349 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,280 your passions are. So this could go a lot of 350 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,960 different ways. This might be a location based 351 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,680 thing. So like if I'm in, I'm in the 352 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,640 Dallas Fort Worth area in Texas, I might have a local Dallas Fort 353 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,160 Worth community that is multi, multi industry, multifunctional, 354 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,160 or I might have something that speaks to like I'm part of a 355 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,720 women's community or I might have something that speaks to a 356 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,640 passion of mine. So like I really love vegan 357 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:23,880 cooking. So I might join a community 358 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:25,280 around vegan cooking. It really doesn't matter. 359 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,600 It hasn't have to be professional related, but it's 360 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,480 something that is meaningful to you. 361 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,040 So that should be your second community. 362 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,360 And then your third community is usually about what it is that 363 00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:39,120 you are, what transition or what transformation you're going 364 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:40,840 through right now. And this will change over time. 365 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:44,520 So if you're job searching, you should join a community that 366 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,560 really speaks to the skills you need as you are learning how to 367 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,600 job search and learning how to transition and pivot. 368 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,240 If you are trying to learn AI, you should join a community that 369 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,200 helps teach you AI. If you're trying to up level and 370 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,960 go from a director level to AVP level or VP level to AC suite 371 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,240 level, you should join a community that helps give you 372 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,240 those leadership skills to help you up level that particular 373 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,880 thing. So whatever it is you're trying 374 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,360 to learn or grow at right now, you should have a community that 375 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:15,160 helps you do that thing as well. So that's your third community. 376 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,720 I love that that's it's great advice. 377 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,600 I I was thinking like, what communities am I in? 378 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,000 I'm like, does my podcast go? Why not? 379 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,360 Why not I guess Except I don't. I don't know the names of my 380 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:30,120 listeners so I can't connect with them unless they reach out. 381 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,400 OK, so if you are listening right now, send Tracy an e-mail 382 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,000 or a LinkedIn message or something so she knows who you 383 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:37,240 are. I. 384 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,440 Want to know who you are? Comment and I'll know your name 385 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:41,800 that way, too. Yeah, I know. 386 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:42,880 Exactly. I want to know who you are. 387 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,160 It's funny. I mean, it makes total sense 388 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:51,040 that in these spheres where we, you know, find meaning 389 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,480 professional, personal or, you know, interpersonal and then 390 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,960 naturally the kind of the future state like what we want to do 391 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,600 that there's so much possibility there and so much growth that 392 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,240 can come from those, you know, relationships and I mean. 393 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,880 The listeners are probably used to me saying this at this point 394 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,720 that relationships to me are fundamental to career success. 395 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,400 Like the better we are, I think at developing trusting 396 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,920 relationships, Not just any really they have to have some 397 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,800 depth to them, but trusting relationships, the more likely 398 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,760 we are to be able to achieve whatever it is that we want to 399 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,400 achieve. Maybe it's just like that next 400 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,800 thing or maybe it's the big thing, right? 401 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,200 Like maybe it's being like a chief people officer one day, 402 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,600 like whatever that might be, having those trusting 403 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,920 relationships can really help. And I think to your point, when 404 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,160 someone's just starting out, and as you said, even in your own 405 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,800 experience, it starts with kind of the community that you're 406 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,400 within, like the the team that you're on, the company you work 407 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,120 for. And hopefully in those initial 408 00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:59,520 moments within our careers, we are taking the opportunity to 409 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,480 branch out. But I think it's kind of a good 410 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,240 call to action for not only just myself, but really for everyone. 411 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,880 Like how are we putting ourselves out there and, you 412 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,960 know, investing further in our in ourselves and our own success 413 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,640 by being a part of these communities where other people 414 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,360 are engaging. And then you never know. 415 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,080 It's really it honestly is all about who you know. 416 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,640 You never know. It's all about who you know. 417 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,880 It's all about who you know. So I guess two things for your 418 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,760 listeners too, like 1 is if you were listening to us and you're 419 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,720 like, Oh no, she said I need 3 communities and I don't have any 420 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,560 communities. Don't try and get all three at 421 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,520 once. Start with one, pick one, it 422 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,440 does not matter which one and start there. 423 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,200 The other thing I would say is really like it. 424 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:48,320 Really, you do not know how impactful your relationships are 425 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,680 and how they will impact you and who is going to be that person 426 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,080 that's going to help you land that next role or help you with 427 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,440 that next opportunity. I had one client once who really 428 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,600 wanted to work at a particular organization. 429 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,160 It was their dream organization. They had applied, they had not 430 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,840 gotten an interview, but they were still very focused on 431 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,640 getting into that organization and that role. 432 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,800 And we were going through both of our collective networks 433 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,560 trying to figure out if we knew anybody at this organization. 434 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,440 And as we were going through it, one of the things popped up and 435 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,040 that person looked at it and looked like, looked through the 436 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,880 names and everything. And they're like, that name 437 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,520 looks really familiar, but I don't like the last name looks 438 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,800 really. But I don't know that person and 439 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,760 then was talking to their neighbor the next day and it 440 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,520 turns out it was their neighbors son that works there. 441 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,040 And so like you never know how this relationships are gonna go. 442 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,120 I had one person that got an interview because they were in a 443 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:46,240 workout group at their gym with somebody. 444 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,920 I got somebody who was got an interview because one person 445 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,680 that they were friends with went to a training class 3 years ago 446 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,880 with this person. Had not talked to him since but 447 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,960 connected on LinkedIn. But had enough of our affinity 448 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,920 there that when this person reached out to them on behalf of 449 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,760 somebody else, they got an interview because they were able 450 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,040 to do that. Introduction like weak ties are 451 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,040 still very powerful. Here, Yeah, yeah, that's a great 452 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,880 point. I have certainly taken not 453 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,960 advantage of, but yeah, I guess taking advantage of those those 454 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:18,840 connections, whether strong or weak. 455 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:24,480 And frankly, it's how I landed 50% of the roles that I've ever 456 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,400 worked in. You know, it really it, it 457 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,440 really is all about who you know. 458 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,960 And, and I do think that there can be a little bit of an 459 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,840 intimidating factor there and reaching out, especially if a 460 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,120 connection is not super strong. It's like, hey, I think I 461 00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:40,400 remember meeting you at this one party. 462 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,960 That's totally OK. It's like, totally OK. 463 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,280 I mean, we're all humans. And I really at the end of the 464 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,000 day, like they probably have done the same thing or have 465 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,560 wanted to do the same thing. And I I do think that there is 466 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,920 value in putting ourselves out there, no matter how 467 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,040 intimidating or scary it might be. 468 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,400 Yeah, there's, I mean, that's part of where community can 469 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,840 support you too. I have a lot of people who come. 470 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,200 We have community sessions where we talk through different 471 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,640 challenges and people can ask questions and have a lot of 472 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,200 people come here like, I think I want to reach out to this 473 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,600 person, but I'm not sure what if they don't Remember Me? 474 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,560 What if they don't like me? What if, what if, what if, what 475 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,200 if, what if they don't answer me? 476 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,480 Like, and usually we will talk through how to reach out, but 477 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,680 we'll also gently nudge them to go reach out anyway. 478 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,880 And almost every single time it comes back with some kind of 479 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,000 success story how like it's very, very, very repeatable. 480 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,560 But people typically will not get that courage and that 481 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,760 bravery to go reach out if they don't have somebody backing them 482 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,600 up or a group of somebody's. And that's where community, it 483 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,040 could be a career coach, but community also serves that 484 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,760 purpose and it can help you. This could be a small group of 485 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,320 friends. It doesn't have to be a formal 486 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,800 community, but you need something to like, push you a 487 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,240 little bit out of your comfort zone and also share. 488 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,800 Like when that person does that and then they come back the next 489 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,680 week and they share. I did it and they reached out 490 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,320 and I have a meeting with them. Now everybody else in that room 491 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,400 is like, oh, now I'm gonna try a little bit harder to go do it. 492 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:05,960 And like, you learn from each other. 493 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,480 It's so powerful. Totally. 494 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,120 You're so right. And, and it really does feel 495 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:13,360 great, like when there is some sort of successful connection 496 00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:16,480 and, and it makes the connection stronger, frankly, it, it really 497 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,600 does, you know, and, and people, I find generally speaking that 498 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,880 people really do want to help when they can. 499 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:28,400 And, you know, if I'm sure many of us have gone to a LinkedIn 500 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,960 job post, we've seen who works there within our network, or we 501 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,600 look to see who in our network might be a connection for us to 502 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,760 that particular job. Because applying off the street, 503 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,840 quote UN quote, as I like to say is, is almost a terrible 504 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,160 strategy. It's like maybe 5 percent, 10% 505 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,880 successful. So, you know, I, I think 506 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,960 generally speaking, like, you know, you, you put yourself out 507 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,960 there and hopefully they reply. And most of the time they're 508 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,480 like, yeah, I'd love to help. Or I actually have no idea who 509 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,080 the hiring manager is. And this company is so big, I 510 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,600 don't know where to send you. But either way, that's OK. 511 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:05,840 They try. Exactly. 512 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,400 But Karen, thank you so much for all of these tips and insights. 513 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,200 I think there are a lot of a lot of really good suggestions that 514 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,640 the listeners can walk away with and, and start to apply today 515 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,720 and really think just as a way for them to think differently 516 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,880 and put themselves out there more and challenge their own 517 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,600 comfort zones just a little bit. So for others, for those 518 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,680 listening I should say, who want to get connected and learn more 519 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,280 about you, maybe work with you, where should they connect? 520 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,680 Yeah, there's 22 main places, so I'm on LinkedIn, so Karen 521 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,920 worthy, and you can search me on LinkedIn. 522 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,480 I think I'm the only Karen worthy on there, but you'll see 523 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,960 me on there. And then I also have a website, 524 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,600 it's Worthy career paths with an S at the end dot com. 525 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,960 So worthy career paths.com. And you can find out about my 526 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,520 services, our community job search community. 527 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,320 I primarily work with director and executive level folks who 528 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,800 are looking for their next role. But I am very open to helping 529 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,600 any, any level, any person. So feel free to reach out and 530 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,960 just shoot me a message and tell me you heard about it on this 531 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,400 podcast. And I will do everything in my 532 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:12,920 power to help you. Amazing. 533 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,360 I love that helpfulness is the key here. 534 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:19,200 This is the the common denominator to the entire 535 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,640 discussion and we'll have everything, I think, of course, 536 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,920 for the listeners. But thank you so much for your 537 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,080 time. Really appreciate it. 538 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,760 Oh, of course, Tracy. It was a great conversation. 539 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,920 Thank you for having me on. Of course, anytime. 540 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,920 Hey, just before you go, don't forget to subscribe to the. 541 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,200 Show so that you are the. 1st to hear when an episode drops each 542 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,640 week and maybe leave a five star review and a comment about how 543 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,760 much you loved this episode. Plus if you have someone in mind 544 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,920 who would really enjoy this episode, make sure you share it 545 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,880 with them. Thank you so much for tuning in 546 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,280 and I'll see you next week.