1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,440 Are you tired of your valuable ideas and suggestions getting 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,440 lost in the shuffle? Well, that is why I'm 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,840 introducing direct, suggest the revolutionary. 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:09,840 Digital. Suggestion box that puts your 5 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,840 voice front and center. With Direct suggest, you have 6 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,920 the power to make a difference in your organization. 7 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,000 Direct suggest provides value to organizations in various 8 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,080 industries worldwide, including notable brands like Comcast, TD 9 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:24,480 Bank, and Nokia. And here's the best part. 10 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:29,040 Direct suggest only costs $0.50 per employee per month, making 11 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:30,400 it an. Affordable solution for? 12 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,320 Businesses of all sizes plus they have an incredibly high ROI 13 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,480 and savings potential. With an average 33 times return 14 00:00:37,480 --> 00:00:40,320 on investment, the implementation process is also a 15 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,280 breeze. Once committed, setting up 16 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,160 direct suggest from start to finish can be completed and as 17 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:48,520 quickly as a week or less. Don't let your ideas or your 18 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,720 team's ideas go unnoticed. Visit directsuggest.com today 19 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,560 and start by making a difference with direct suggest. 20 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,920 Use the promo code HUMAN HR for your extended 60 day free trial. 21 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,000 Again, visit directsuggest.com to learn more. 22 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,680 And remember to use promo code HUMAN HR for an extended free 23 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,120 trial direct. Suggest where your voice 24 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,920 matters. Welcome to the Bringing the 25 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:12,320 Human Back. To human resources. 26 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:15,520 Podcast I'm Tracy Chernoff and I've spent my entire 27 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,040 professional career in HR. Each week we'll explore the 28 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,280 delicate balance between people and business with the aim to 29 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,760 reconnect the two and create meaningful outcomes. 30 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,280 Listen in as I share my own experiences, challenge the 31 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,800 status quo, and chat with guests from various industries about 32 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,880 our mission to bring the human back to human resources. 33 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,080 Hi. Everyone, welcome back to the 34 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:38,800 podcast. Thank you so much for being here 35 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,240 for another week. Don't forget to rate, review, 36 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,120 and subscribe. Share this episode with a 37 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,680 friend. And of course, you know, just 38 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,040 stay tuned because we have some awesome information for you. 39 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:54,960 And actually this is the first guest episode back since or I 40 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,440 should say since I've been back from maternity leave. 41 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,160 So Jessica, this is, this is very exciting. 42 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,600 So for those of you listening who maybe have been here before, 43 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,320 you know, I just got back from maternity leave. 44 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,720 So thank you for your patience while we geared up all of our 45 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,320 guest episodes again. So without further ado, I'm 46 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,240 going to introduce you to our esteemed guest for this week, 47 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:22,200 Jessica D Winder, who is a working mom of twin girls also. 48 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,760 Which is a very exciting thing because it's not every day that 49 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,480 a twin mom myself meets another twin mom. 50 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,720 So very exciting. But she also serves as a keynote 51 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,960 speaker and career coach. With a refreshingly candid 52 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,560 approach and extensive experience in people operations, 53 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,880 Jessica is on a mission to spark positive change through what she 54 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,480 calls Good Trouble. Her passion lies in fostering 55 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,080 leadership development and empowering individuals and 56 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,560 organizations to unlock their hidden potential. 57 00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:52,000 As the founder of Hidden Gem Career Coaching, Jessica has 58 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,520 guided countless professionals on their career journeys, 59 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,080 offering invaluable insights and strategies. 60 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,040 In her recently published book, The Hidden Gem Within, Jessica 61 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,800 shares her wisdom and practical advice for uncovering and 62 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,920 nurturing one's innate talents and strengths, paving the way 63 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:08,520 for personal and professional growth. 64 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,800 With Jessica, what you see is what you get, a no nonsense 65 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,560 attitude paired with an unwavering commitment to lifting 66 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,720 others up. What an amazing bio, Jessica. 67 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,320 I'm so glad that everyone on the podcast gets to learn a little 68 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,520 bit about you today. Welcome to the podcast. 69 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,360 I'm so excited to be here and yes to the fellow twin moms, 70 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,960 like we are a little like group that has to support each other. 71 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:31,840 So I'm so excited to be here. Thank you. 72 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,000 Oh my gosh. Well, I'm really glad that 73 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,360 you're here. And as you, as we've talked 74 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,520 about, I mean, being a twin mom is like no easy feat. 75 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,960 And I really appreciate that you are here recording with me this 76 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,760 afternoon because I know it takes a lot of coordination. 77 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,800 Yes, it absolutely does. But it's like double the fun, 78 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,640 but also just double the everything. 79 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:53,560 Totally double the everything, right? 80 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,160 Double the bouncers, double the high chair, double the diapers, 81 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:58,400 double the wipes. Double the. 82 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,360 Everything right? Double the love, double the fun. 83 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,760 Oh my gosh. Well, like I said, I'm really 84 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,120 glad that you're here and grateful for your time. 85 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,920 Let's jump into it. I know when we first started 86 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,480 chatting, you were sharing that you recently went on your own 87 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,880 career journey. That was a a pivot from what you 88 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,280 expected it to be, so to speak. I'm not going to speak for you, 89 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:28,440 but I know when we think about navigating career challenges, 90 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,800 whether good or the bad, you know it comes with a lot of 91 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,360 humility. It comes with a lot of change. 92 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,640 So do you mind sharing a little bit about your recent career 93 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,360 change or challenge, I should say? 94 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,920 Yeah, definitely a challenge. And I mean that in a positive 95 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,280 way. But I actually think this is so 96 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:51,080 helpful because a lot of times I think people look at people that 97 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,080 are in a leadership position. And like prior to this role I'm 98 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,720 about to speak about, I was in a senior vice president position. 99 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,560 So, like, people think like, oh, you get to this extreme 100 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,680 leadership position and then like, things just are just 101 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,760 smooth for you. And that's not the case for most 102 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,480 people. So my situation was I had my 103 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,760 twins. I was off for 4 1/2 months, came 104 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,800 back, and I came back to an organization that I knew before 105 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,680 I left that my role was not necessarily secure and that, 106 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,640 like, I was probably going, they could not afford to keep me. 107 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,680 We were going through probably the third round of layoffs at 108 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,800 that point. So when I came back from 109 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,680 maternity leave, I was already kind of on alert like like 110 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,440 what's going to happen. And I have like a really, you 111 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,680 know, honest conversation with like, hey, they can't afford to 112 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,080 keep me. You have until the end of the 113 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,960 year to find something else. And so I was kind of like right 114 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,720 back from maternity leave, like looking for a job. 115 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,560 So it was, it was pretty hectic. It it felt hectic at the time. 116 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,080 Obviously my twins were only like 4 months old and so it felt 117 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,520 really, really shaky to be like, OK, I need to find a new job and 118 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,400 so I ended up finding another job, but it was absolutely not, 119 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,360 not in my area of expertise. I would say I started my career 120 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,840 as a recruiter. I definitely think in every role 121 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:03,320 I've ever had, I've had to recruit. 122 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,120 But I took a role as a head of talent. 123 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,760 So head of TA like recruiting and honestly from the beginning 124 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,560 knew that like this was a stepping stone. 125 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,920 Like this was something like almost like a placeholder. 126 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,560 Like that's how I would that's how I actually described it to 127 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:18,880 my family. Like this is a placeholder. 128 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,560 This is not where I want to be long term, but it's something. 129 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,240 To be quite frank, it was like, I need health insurance. 130 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,880 I have these twin babies, like I need health insurance. 131 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,040 So and unfortunately in this country you have to have a job 132 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,360 most places to have health insurance. 133 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,920 You know, it's one of those things and it definitely was one 134 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,280 of those situations where I had to re evaluate like what is 135 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:43,120 important to me. And I always tell my clients 136 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,320 this, like sometimes you have to do something for a short amount 137 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,120 of time that you don't want to do long term. 138 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,000 And it's hard to say that, but it's true. 139 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,760 And that was my situation. So I took the role knowing that 140 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:55,360 it's not what I wanted to do long term. 141 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,640 It didn't work out long term. Like I was absolutely not the 142 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,440 right fit. I was not showing up as my best 143 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,360 self because I wasn't happy. So we ended up parting ways 144 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,520 after only three months, but it was the best situation for me 145 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,800 and for them to be like, OK, this is not the right fit for 146 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,600 me. So I say all that to say my 147 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,240 role, like everything about my life is in a pivot right now. 148 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,440 And I mean that in a great way. One of the things I've been 149 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,600 journaling about is just the word pivot. 150 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:27,360 Like how do I pivot? Pivoting is a really hard and B 151 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,960 really challenging in a in a positive way because it does 152 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,000 challenge you or require you as a person, whether it's you 153 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,400 specifically, you, Jessica or someone else, to think about 154 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,360 what you want, what you don't want, what you like, what you 155 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,880 don't like. And I really appreciate you 156 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:50,160 sharing that story and your background because so many 157 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,760 listeners reach out about, you know, when is the right time to 158 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,760 make a change. Am I going to be happy if I take 159 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:01,840 this job that I'm not really enthused about or I really want 160 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,560 to go into something else? I want to pivot? 161 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,000 How easy is that going to be? How difficult is that going to 162 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:07,240 be? What do I need to know? 163 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,520 And when I hear you talking about journaling, that's a great 164 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,440 practice. I like in over the summer I had 165 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,200 a guest on and I was like I'm going to journal and I did it 166 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:19,760 for a while while I was pregnant. 167 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,840 And then of course you have twins and then it's like 168 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:28,400 nothing, nothing, barely have time to even like formulate a 169 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,000 thought. But I'm really glad that you're 170 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,679 journaling because it is a great way to practice, I guess what 171 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,039 they call mindfulness, right, because you're actively thinking 172 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:41,760 about what you have and what you want and what you need. 173 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,560 And so I guess a question for you then is when you think about 174 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:51,360 the things that you really want out of your career, are they the 175 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:56,000 same as what you or are they consistent with what you thought 176 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,320 they were? Or has journaling allowed you to 177 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:03,000 think differently and then now your career needs or wants look 178 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,720 different? Yeah, there absolutely has been 179 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,560 a shift in the way that I did it. 180 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:09,840 And I don't know what book I read this in, but I read some 181 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,040 book that talked about writing down your career crushes. 182 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,040 So like, places that you're crushing on, whether it's a 183 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,400 leader that's there or it's like the product of the company or 184 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,640 like something that they're doing, it could be anything, the 185 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:23,680 reason that you want to work there. 186 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,760 And so that's what I started out journaling is like, OK, where 187 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,000 are my crushes? And like, why am I interested in 188 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,480 these certain companies? Some of these companies, it's 189 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,680 because I've worked for a past leader that's there and I really 190 00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:35,120 admire them. Some of them, I like their 191 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,480 product, but even just writing that out became clear to me on 192 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,480 like what I actually want to be doing. 193 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,040 And I've never, and this is gonna sound funny, but I've 194 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,560 never considered myself to be very when it comes to work 195 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:48,160 purpose driven. It's very much like, oh, I can 196 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,680 work for any industry, I work in HR, all that stuff. 197 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,120 But now I'm leaning towards like, no, I actually do want 198 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,120 some type of purpose in like liking the product or liking 199 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,600 what's going on. Whereas in the beginning of my 200 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,520 career I started my career in oil and gas. 201 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,760 I didn't care about oil and gas like it was, but I like the 202 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:05,920 people that I worked with, you know. 203 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,680 So I definitely think and the older I get, the more it is 204 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:13,000 important to me what the company does, which is a change. 205 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,080 And I don't, I'm be honest, I never saw that coming. 206 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:17,520 That's really interesting to hear. 207 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,800 I mean we like, I'm sure you've spoken with candidates about 208 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,400 mission driven companies or even like clients that you might have 209 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,720 coached if someone because there are people who are specific 210 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,560 about wanting mission driven companies. 211 00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:33,560 I work for a mission driven company and it wasn't until I 212 00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:37,360 started working here that I thought about that because like 213 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,320 you I was like, like yeah, I mean I always worked in retail. 214 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,200 I'm like, well I'm a consumer and I love the product that we 215 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,720 sell or like when I worked at Target, I was like it's a job 216 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,440 and then I was like oh, I actually really love Target. 217 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,800 It wasn't like I really love Target. 218 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,480 Let me go work there. And so now what I'm hearing you 219 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:00,360 saying is that you've uncovered this interest in finding the 220 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,240 appreciation or the love for what it is that the company 221 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,440 sells or does or backs. And then it's like, OK, let me 222 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,160 go and apply there because I love what they do, what they 223 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,440 sell, what they promote. So it's interesting and I mean 224 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:20,680 maybe it's because we're in like HR roles where we're kind of 225 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,520 serving a purpose within a purpose driven company that 226 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,160 maybe we're not thinking about what the company's purpose is 227 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,760 and we're only thinking about our purpose within the company. 228 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,040 I don't know if, you know, maybe people in engineering are way 229 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,680 more focused on the mission or the product of a company. 230 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,920 Maybe I'm just psychoanalyzing this. 231 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,360 No, I agree with you. I definitely think it's 232 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,960 something to be said there. I in my 20s, I would just say I 233 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,520 was very money focused. So it was like listen, if you're 234 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,600 gonna pay me, I will be HR for anybody like you know. 235 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,080 And now I don't I can say I don't feel that way. 236 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,480 I do not feel that way at all. I feel like I need to be one 237 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,280 very in tune with the leadership team. 238 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,600 That's very important to me. I've journaled about what I want 239 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,560 my relationship to be like with my future CEO, whoever I go work 240 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:09,600 with, like we have to be on the same page because I've been 241 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,040 places where that wasn't the case and it was just so much 242 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,680 resistance that I I can't do that again. 243 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,720 So that's the first thing, like the relationship with the CEO 244 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,800 and then like what what are they actually doing and how are they 245 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,280 impacting the community or wherever they are? 246 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,440 That's also important to me. That's great. 247 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:30,160 Do you think that becoming a mother is really the catalyst 248 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,080 for this difference in your Yeah. 249 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:36,400 Yes, absolutely. There's no doubt in my mind, I 250 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,360 am of the mind frame that anytime that I'm away from my 251 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,520 daughters, it needs to be for a reason. 252 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,240 And I say that with like true purpose. 253 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,720 Like like if I'm going to be away from them, like what am I 254 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:47,800 getting out of this? Like what? 255 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,640 What am I growing? Is something happening? 256 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,800 Am I helping somebody else grow? Like if I'm coaching, like what 257 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,240 am I doing? So yes, it's it's very much my 258 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,960 mind frame has changed. That's so profound. 259 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,400 I feel the same way. It's and I wouldn't be surprised 260 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,800 if every new parent but especially mothers feel that way 261 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:10,160 because it is it's sacred time like the the you don't get more 262 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:16,160 time in life and they are never as small as they are and it's 263 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:22,280 it's really very like tender and so when you think of that time 264 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,960 like what you the opportunity cost of you spending time away 265 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,720 from them. I feel I feel the exact same 266 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:30,680 way. It's like if I'm going to step 267 00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:35,480 away from being with them in that moment it has to be for 268 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,000 something that's worth that time And then it's like OK well what 269 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,680 is the worth? Is it financial worth Is it this 270 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:46,960 purpose driven worth and realistically like the money. 271 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,480 I feel like I was the same way in the 20s it was all about the 272 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,360 dollar signs and now I'm like OK, well I could get paid. 273 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,920 That's great. Or I could do something that 274 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,160 pays me that that I'm getting paid to do, but I'm actually 275 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,920 more fulfilled by the what and the why. 276 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,240 And it sounds like that's basically where you are at, 277 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,440 where you're like, OK, well, if I'm going to spend my time away 278 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,920 from my daughters, then that time that I'm spending has to be 279 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,760 invaluable. It has to be worth what I would 280 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,080 be getting out of spending time as a mother. 281 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:22,480 It's really. Hard. 282 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,960 It's hard to to work and be a parent. 283 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,080 Yes. And this came up recently 284 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,640 because I flew out. I live in Vegas. 285 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:34,800 I flew out to Seattle and to to basically film some content for 286 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,920 a partnership that I'm doing. And they were like, oh, we can 287 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:39,200 fly you out. The day before all this, I was 288 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,080 like, oh, absolutely not. I'm flying out first thing in 289 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:42,960 the morning and I am flying back for bedtime. 290 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:45,920 I was like, that's important to me. 291 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,520 Like, I will, we have to make this work to where I can get 292 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,920 there in the morning and I'm leaving that night and I want to 293 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,440 be back here by a certain time. And we made it work and it was 294 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,960 perfect. But that was just like a prime 295 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,880 example of like, yeah, I will travel to you, but I will. 296 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,880 I'm not staying. Like, I'm flying in, I'm flying 297 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,520 out. And I've done this twice in the 298 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,040 last. My girls are nine months, so in 299 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,120 the last nine months I've done it. 300 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,680 I've done that twice where I flew out that morning, flew back 301 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,960 that night. But that's just a prime example 302 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,280 of like, what's important to me. In my 20s, I've been like, How 303 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:17,240 many days can I stay right? Because I have friends, I've got 304 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,480 restaurants I want to try. I want to go and and tour 305 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,760 Seattle on your dime. Totally. 306 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,720 Totally. That's so funny. 307 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,440 You and I are very alike. It's really that's, you know, 308 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,000 I'm inspired because I've been asked to travel and I was 309 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,880 talking to my husband about this and we were like, it's just 310 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:35,880 we're not ready. I'm not. 311 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,160 And it and it was like cross country travel. 312 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,360 I'm in New York and this was to go out to California. 313 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,400 And I was like any other moment of my life I would have been 314 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,960 like, great, when do you need me to be there? 315 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:53,080 Now I'm like, oh, I don't know, because who's going to watch 316 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:54,840 them? My husband works a very 317 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,000 demanding job. Like I can't be away from them 318 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,320 for that long. How will, how will I function In 319 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,400 a way, because it's it's like even if you have healthy 320 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,320 boundaries with your work life and your personal life and being 321 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,800 a parent, it's still like, I don't know if you feel this way. 322 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,760 It's kind of like I feel like I'm going to miss out on 323 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,280 something major if I'm away from them for more than 24 hours. 324 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,800 Yes, absolutely. It's it's a thing. 325 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,800 And I will say I went so like back and forth and I will say 326 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,680 that first trip, you know, full transparency that I took. 327 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,200 I was still breastfeeding so I had to like take a pump with me. 328 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,440 I had to literally have them set up an A room where I could go. 329 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,640 And so it was such a production. And I was like, I'm willing to 330 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,640 do this because I think that this is important. 331 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,640 And but these are what I need. Like, this is what I need to 332 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,800 make me comfortable, to make it, make me do this. 333 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,040 And we did it. But I know so many people in my 334 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,800 life that when I told that I did that, they were like, oh, wow, 335 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,600 Like, I didn't, I wouldn't have asked. 336 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,040 Like, I wouldn't have felt comfortable asking for those 337 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,280 things. And so I kind of just want to 338 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,440 say if you're listening to this, like, ask, ask. 339 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:01,920 People are willing to accommodate you. 340 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,160 You have to ask, though. And that part of the motherhood 341 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,720 career journey has been just a whole new facet to me of like, 342 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,319 I'm going to ask for all these things if you want me there. 343 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:14,280 This is what needs to happen. Right. 344 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,880 And if you don't ask, you'll never receive. 345 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,760 I mean there's the, the age-old phrase ask and you shall receive 346 00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:26,200 because fundamentally the only person who is ever going to 347 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,120 advocate for you is yourself. That that's just, you know, it 348 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:32,320 is what it is. And if people are upset by that, 349 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,280 then they just haven't learned that yet. 350 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,360 And I I think it's really, it's really great that you knew 351 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:42,480 exactly what you needed. I mean it's it's really hard. 352 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:47,520 There's a lot of pressure societally business wise on 353 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:52,200 women, especially when they return from maternity leave or 354 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,400 when they're going out on maternity leave, to act a 355 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,880 certain way, be a certain way, come back better than ever, be 356 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,640 able to manage everything. And even if we do those things 357 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,440 and we manage our or I should say balance or find harmony 358 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,480 between our work lives and our personal lives, that's a great 359 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,440 thing. But there are so many ways in 360 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,160 which it can all kind of like fall apart or you feel like it's 361 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,640 just a lot. And so I think for you to be 362 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,560 able to articulate what it is that you needed in order to be 363 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:26,200 able to make that travel beneficial for you and others, 364 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,480 like that's a wonderful thing. I think most of the time where 365 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,520 people find themselves getting tripped up is when they are 366 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,120 unable to articulate what they need because they don't know 367 00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:40,920 what they need before they go through the motions of what, 368 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,000 whether it's traveling or going back to work. 369 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,080 Like when I was, I just did a maternity leave or return from 370 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,680 maternity leave episode for my podcast and I talked about how 371 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:55,360 one of the ways in which I believe I should say it came 372 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:57,840 out, it will come out this week that we're recording. 373 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,600 So it's not out yet, but by the time this episode is out, it 374 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,480 will be out. But I shared that one of the 375 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,000 reasons why I think I returned from maternity leave in a way 376 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,520 that feels really good and successful is because I did all 377 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,160 of this preparation before coming back. 378 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,400 Like I didn't return. I didn't dread returning to 379 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,400 work. I wasn't like anxious about it. 380 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,720 And it's because of that heavy lifting that you ultimately have 381 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:25,480 to do mentally to prepare for all of the changes because it 382 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,520 you are totally a different person when you come back and or 383 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:33,040 when you go from being just an adult to then being a parent 384 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,240 like that's it's just so much change. 385 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,640 Yeah, I had a coach. So I will say this. 386 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,120 I had like a coach who was a working mom who has four kids 387 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,040 and literally she coached me before I went out on leave and 388 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,000 like to come back to work. And this was a benefit that the 389 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,880 company had paid for. It was service called parently 390 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:56,000 like they like I had a like basically a a mom coach, like 391 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,080 best thing that ever happened to me. 392 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,000 Like she's amazing. I will forever keep in touch 393 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,200 with her. But yeah, it was the preparation 394 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,320 to like get my team set up because I had a team of people 395 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,600 working under me. And so that was another thing in 396 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,080 my role. I want to say is that I did not 397 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,920 know of anyone else at. My SPP level that had gone out 398 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,600 on maternity leave. So that was also something that 399 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,680 was on my shoulders of like, OK, I want to do this right because 400 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,320 I don't want them to feel like, you know, like I'm uncommitted 401 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,560 and all these these are things that were going through my head, 402 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,040 but they were extremely kind and like I had like a transition 403 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,560 back into work plan, you know, all of I was definitely set up 404 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,000 to win. That's one thing I will say 405 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,840 about my maternity leave. I was set up to be successful 406 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,080 and I know that's coming from a place of privilege because there 407 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,120 are other people that were not at my level that may not have 408 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,520 felt the same way. So I just want to acknowledge 409 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,880 that because I do know that like leaders sometimes get things 410 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,120 that other people don't get and that was absolutely didn't my 411 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:57,120 case, but it it definitely was a different situation. 412 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,880 That's a great point. I've I feel like it's come up on 413 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,280 my podcast before some of these differences between leaders or 414 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,600 non leaders or tenured employees versus those who are just coming 415 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,600 in and it does kind of come back to advocacy. 416 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,680 Like, I think, you know, the best thing that we can do for 417 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,360 the listeners is help them to understand that they can be 418 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,440 advocates for themselves, whether it's maternity leave 419 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,360 related or even just career growth, which I know you're also 420 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:31,800 really passionate about helping people to just find their their 421 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,440 best selves within businesses or within careers and their 422 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,840 careers. And when you think about 423 00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:41,400 yourself, or at least in in my perspective, when I think about 424 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:47,160 advocacy as part of being a businesswoman, as part of being 425 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:53,040 an employee and a company, it's like through that mindset that 426 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,320 I'm able to always think about what do I want out of my career, 427 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,120 what do I want today, What do I want my experience to be like? 428 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:04,000 And then it kind of comes back to, am I doing something that I 429 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,400 really enjoy? Because my time is worth a lot. 430 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,680 And so I need to make sure I'm enjoying what I'm doing. 431 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,600 And so this does kind of come back to ultimately what we're 432 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,160 talking about, which is navigating these career 433 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,000 challenges. And I would love to kind of pass 434 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,840 it back to you. How do you, how do you advocate 435 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,240 for yourself when you are in a process, whether it's looking 436 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,280 for a job or interviewing actively for a job? 437 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,920 What do you tell yourself and what do you tell your clients in 438 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,000 terms of advocating for what you need? 439 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,280 Yeah, so this was, this is a great question because I 440 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,720 literally just wrote a LinkedIn post that I haven't posted yet. 441 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,160 But by the time this is up, it will be posted where I was 442 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,480 saying, if you are a working parent and flexibility is 443 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,840 something that is important to you when you're interviewing, 444 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,200 ask. Like at the very end, you know, 445 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,600 normally you can ask to speak to someone and you know it's the 446 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,360 final rounds, not at the beginning. 447 00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:01,080 At the end, at the end ask, can I speak to somebody that works 448 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,080 there that's a working parent. I've done this before and it was 449 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,920 amazing because then I got to ask them like, hey, you're a 450 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,000 working parent, like what time are you normally done, even if 451 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,520 this person is on a different team? 452 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,320 Because then you get to understand what are expectations 453 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,320 for you like, Is there truly flexibility? 454 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,040 Is it team specific? Because sometimes, like 455 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,040 depending on, you know, if you're in finance certain times 456 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,720 of the month that you're, you can't be flexible. 457 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,840 And like same thing with sales when quotas are due. 458 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,880 But talking to another parent that works there, and I told a 459 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,160 client to do this recently and they're like, I can do that and 460 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,400 I'm like absolutely, like ask to speak to someone. 461 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,560 Now mind you, the company can absolutely say no, but I have 462 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,320 never encountered anyone saying no. 463 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,760 You can't speak to a working parent because why not? 464 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,840 Especially at the very end when they're trying to get you to 465 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,280 sign the offer letter. Like why not ask to speak to 466 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,640 someone a lot of times? And this can go for anything. 467 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:50,880 So it doesn't have to be parents. 468 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,880 It can be, you know, you want to speak to someone who looks like 469 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,240 you or has some type of, you know, the same demographics as 470 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:57,960 you, if that's something that you know you want to talk to 471 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,000 someone about. So it can be anything that is 472 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,640 important to you that you want to speak to someone to confirm 473 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,040 that what you've been told throughout the interview process 474 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,760 is true. That's fabulous advice. 475 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,560 I've never done that. I've never thought about doing 476 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,600 that. But it's really, really sage 477 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,760 advice. And my second thought to Wow, 478 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,520 that's great advice. Is that you? 479 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,240 There is a a moment in an interview process where it 480 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,480 switches from you selling yourself to the business, 481 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,560 selling themselves to you. So it's like and everyone feels 482 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,240 that like you can really feel you're like, oh, I'm close, like 483 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,440 this is feeling right. I think they're going to give me 484 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,200 an offer. And when you're at that end 485 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,040 stage, you really don't have a ton to lose. 486 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,680 Like you're interviewing, you're looking for this job. 487 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,840 Sure, getting a job is the goal, but it doesn't help if you have 488 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,120 these parameters that are super important to you, like 489 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:53,360 flexibility, which is the example you used. 490 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,600 And then you don't get that out of the job. 491 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,840 So you might as well find that out ahead of time rather than 492 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,040 being afraid to ask that question. 493 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,640 And it's also another opportunity for you to 494 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,240 demonstrate commitment to that organization because again they 495 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,480 there's that moment in time where it pivots from you selling 496 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,000 yourself to you being able to kind of almost take a passive 497 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,560 seat and allowing the business to sell themselves to you. 498 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,920 So I think it's really good advice and I could, I could only 499 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,920 imagine that if a company said no, we can't offer that to you 500 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,040 that it would just result in you saying OK, this is. 501 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,160 Not exactly. So it says more if they say no, 502 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,120 but I've never had that happen. And I've been in the process 503 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:38,400 from like an HR standpoint where people have asked to speak to, 504 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,040 you know, someone on a different team or someone, you know what I 505 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:42,440 mean? Like that wasn't a part of the 506 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,760 interview process, so it is becoming more common, but be 507 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,000 strategic about it. Yeah, I love that. 508 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,120 And actually, I'll make sure that we share your LinkedIn post 509 00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:55,520 in the show notes so that everyone can engage too. 510 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,160 Because now they're hearing this advice. 511 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,600 And hopefully they'll also comment on your post so that 512 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,560 they can, you know, share how excited they are by getting such 513 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,400 great advice for free. Because that's the beauty of a 514 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,560 podcast, right? You know, I'm, I'm curious 515 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,160 because you have had such a successful career and you, you 516 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,320 know, have done so much with clients of yours. 517 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,880 You've written a book. Is there advice that you would 518 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:24,120 tell your junior HR self, like, let's just think back to your 519 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:27,120 first year in HRI. Know it's nostalgia, right? 520 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,600 I'm like thinking about my own career here. 521 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,800 Is there anything that you would tell yourself, whether it's 522 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:38,520 advice or do's and don'ts, that you feel you wish you had had at 523 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,160 that stage in your career in the beginning? 524 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,440 I think what I would tell myself if I went back to, like I said, 525 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,400 I started started an oil and gas and I absolutely had like a 526 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,200 great mentor in that role. I wish I would have asked to 527 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,080 basically go shadow different departments. 528 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,560 So I wish I would have spent some time in finance, spent some 529 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,240 time in operations, all of that stuff. 530 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:05,080 Because I, now, you know, 13 years later, have learned all 531 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,000 those different departments and understand like how like they 532 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,920 impact the business. But young Jessica did not 533 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,120 understand that. I just knew like I'm an HR, this 534 00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:14,880 is my box, I'm going to stay in my box. 535 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,520 So to younger people or people that are just getting started in 536 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,160 HR, you're doing a career pivot. That's my go to advice for every 537 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,120 single person is you have to understand all aspects of the 538 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:29,400 business and how the business makes money. 539 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,480 And if you don't then employees are not going to respect you. 540 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,880 And so that is, that's what I would have told young Jessica. 541 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,280 Like you got to understand it all. 542 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,040 Yeah, it's another piece of great advice if you when people 543 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:47,280 in HR know the business, they automatically have almost this 544 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,640 camaraderie and a rapport that's built into their relationships 545 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,160 because they're taken more seriously. 546 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,200 It's like, oh, you know, about something that that I wouldn't 547 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,400 expect HR to know. This is great. 548 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,200 Let me actually listen to half the things that you're about to 549 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,440 talk to me about. You know, it really is. 550 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,920 It's a really great point and and also when you get to the 551 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,200 place where you're in that role, where you can start affecting 552 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,720 change or making decisions, you have much more information now, 553 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,040 much more data to be able to make more sound decisions. 554 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,440 It's good advice. I have a funny story about this. 555 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,120 So when I lived in Chicago, I worked as the first HR director 556 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:30,400 for the biggest crime scene cleanup company in the world. 557 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,400 So and as you know a lot of crimes are committed at night. 558 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,240 So the the field text would be out at night in the way that it 559 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,840 would work is like a crimes committed. 560 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,640 The police come and people think like the please clean it up. 561 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,600 They don't. So that's a private company that 562 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,640 comes and cleans up the crime scene wherever it is. 563 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,240 And so when I started there my first month, I was like, I'm 564 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,520 going to go out with the field techs, like I'm going to go out 565 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:52,080 with you. Oh my gosh. 566 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,200 Jessica No, I did. I did. 567 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,520 And I got so much respect for them. 568 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,480 Literally, they told me like they were like, we've worked 569 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,000 here for years. We've never even met an HR 570 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,560 person. Like, we didn't even like you 571 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,200 guys because there was a head office. 572 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,720 And then the field techs worked out like, you know, it's at 573 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,040 night and for a whole month I went out with them to crime 574 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,120 scenes. Now, mind you, I did not clean 575 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,240 up because I'm not a tech, because I'm not trained in all 576 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,400 of that and like the hazmat suits and the whole thing, but I 577 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,480 did go out with them and like was out with them. 578 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,680 Like I would go out starting at like 9:00 till you know, 579 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,280 probably like 3-4 in the morning and be out with them at crime 580 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,920 scenes and like talking to them and just like having them get to 581 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,000 know me and the amount of respect I gained from that day 582 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,360 forward when I started a new company, I'm going to whatever 583 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,240 we do, I'm going to be there because I want to understand. 584 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,160 So when I went and worked in retail as HRI went and worked in 585 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,000 the store, you know, like you be a cashier, be be stalking 586 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,560 because you get respect that way. 587 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,000 But yeah, that's my claim to fame is that I went out with the 588 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:56,000 crime scene text, that is. I I have so many any thoughts 589 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,920 like the first thought which is like the HR thought which is you 590 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,040 absolutely getting the buy in from the team, you don't get 591 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,800 that time back 100% best way you can invest in those 592 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,720 relationships. So I totally agree because in 593 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,480 the frame of like retail agreed you spend time in store you get 594 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,120 a ton of respect that way. My second thought, which was 595 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:22,520 really my first thought, was like, holy crap, Oh my gosh, 596 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,840 that's like, if anyone's watching the video, you saw my 597 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,760 face. I was like, control the face, 598 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,400 control the face. No, literally. 599 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:31,800 Yeah. Crime scene clean up company. 600 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,640 I was their first HR person. I mean, first of all, kudos to 601 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,560 you because as important as the buy in is, I don't know if I 602 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,320 would have the strength because I would be really afraid, 603 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,000 honest, like you think of like crime scenes, you know, like 604 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,480 immediately you're like, OK, the worst case scenario, it's a 605 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,640 murder and it's like that. And then you have to see that 606 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,920 and then you never get the the thought of that out of your 607 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,720 brain. So it's like my question to you 608 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,960 is like, did you, did you you were on the scene with them or 609 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,960 you stayed in the van like you? Were I stayed in the van, so I I 610 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,360 also got more respect because I was like listen I respect you 611 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,200 guys enough to know that I can't do this and most of the 612 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,360 employees there were ex military ex like ambulance aunts you know 613 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:16,760 what I mean? So they like were. 614 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:17,880 They were. They knew. 615 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,960 I literally told them like, I'm, I'm not your girl, I'm here to 616 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,120 support you guys, but I can't go in there. 617 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:24,920 And they were like, no, get it, Please don't. 618 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,360 We don't want to have to clean up your throw up. 619 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,040 Because that was I. That was a very important 620 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,600 question I had to ask you. Because even if you had said to 621 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,720 me, Yep, I was there, I would have the same respect as I do 622 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,840 for you presently, you know, But I would be like we have to take 623 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,120 this offline. And I have to ask you, are you 624 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,080 OK? Like, do you need resources? 625 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:44,800 Because that must be really hard. 626 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,680 I know, you know, look, my husband's in medicine. 627 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,000 Like, I know that when you're around it, you become familiar 628 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,040 or like used to it or maybe even immune to it. 629 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,840 But it's like just coming back to the whole point of what 630 00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,840 you're saying, like that's that's major. 631 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,200 And for them, for them not ever having exposure to someone in 632 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,240 HR, you've like, really? You've changed their 633 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,640 experiences, their lives Because all you have to do is go on to a 634 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,280 Reddit thread and you see that everyone's like, oh, HR, like 635 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,600 they suck. It's all, yeah, I mean, it just 636 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,040 takes one Literally Did. Never met anyone in HR. 637 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,160 So it was, it was, it was great. And I think they just got to 638 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,280 know me like, you know, I'm, you know, out in the truck eating 639 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,040 Cheetos, just doing my own thing, you know, like they got 640 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:28,600 to know me as a person. Yeah. 641 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:30,440 That's amazing. That's amazing. 642 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,000 And then I would imagine that they felt really comfortable 643 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,440 reaching out to you if they had questions. 644 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,120 Yeah. So it it absolutely resulted in 645 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,840 a lot of like great changes because then I understood like 646 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,840 when I was making policies the real impact it was going to have 647 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,200 on them out in the field when you know at corporate where 648 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,440 they're eight to five, they don't even start working till 649 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,640 the night time, you know, so it we were kind of like shifts in 650 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,720 the night. So I strongly suggest you have 651 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,320 to know the business. Not saying you got to go in the 652 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,160 crime scene, but you got to know the business. 653 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,360 That's amazing. I I think that is an article in 654 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,880 and of itself. You should get that story to 655 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,560 print if it's not published already. 656 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,480 I think that's amazing. And it really is a testament to 657 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,600 the type of leader that you are. And hopefully it comes up on any 658 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,600 interviews that you do. Because I think if I were 659 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,440 interviewing you and I heard that story, it's like that's you 660 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,040 get all of the information that you need about a person in that 661 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,640 type of story because then you have like a servant leader, you 662 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,560 have someone really committed to their people, committed to the 663 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,160 business, right? Like every single thing that you 664 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,640 want an interviewer to get about you in an interview, you get 665 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,080 through that story. So that's amazing. 666 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:41,800 Yeah, they would. It's funny because they would 667 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,640 like, reach back out to me and be like, so you want to head 668 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,400 back out and I'll be like, no, I'll take you to lunch. 669 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,680 Like, go eat. Like 9:00 PM is like kind of 670 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,280 when I'm already in bed. Like, that's amazing, though. 671 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,320 That's amazing. Well, I can only say thank you 672 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,840 because you've shared so much insightful information not only 673 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,400 for me but also the listeners who really are at a point. 674 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,680 Many of them are at a point in their careers where they're 675 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,480 trying to figure out, do I pivot, do I enter HR? 676 00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:13,719 How do I do that? What are some ways that I can do 677 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:14,840 that successfully? And I've. 678 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,679 I think you've given them like a ton of really great advice. 679 00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:21,679 So I really appreciate you doing that and I appreciate your time. 680 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,080 And so with that, I'd love for you to share with the audience 681 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,000 where they can connect with you, whether they want to just chat 682 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,440 or get some coaching, where where can they connect? 683 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,679 Yeah, absolutely. So I would say I post every day 684 00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:35,639 on LinkedIn. That's like my main, my favorite 685 00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,120 social media is LinkedIn, which I know makes me sound like a 686 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:38,840 nerd. I don't care. 687 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,840 So LinkedIn and then my website is hidden. 688 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,239 Gym, careercoaching.com and so those would be the best two 689 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,040 places. And I would love to hear from 690 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,719 you guys. If anybody wants to chat, I'm 691 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,159 always open. Amazing. 692 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:52,480 Thank you so much for being the 1st guest. 693 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,800 Since coming back. Welcome back. 694 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,360 Thank you. Thanks so much. 695 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,000 Hey just before you go, don't forget to subscribe to this 696 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:01,480 show. So. 697 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,160 That you are the 1st to hear when an. 698 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,360 Episode drops each week. And maybe leave a five star 699 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:07,960 review. And a comment about how much you 700 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,080 love this episode. Plus if you have. 701 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:11,720 Someone in. Mind who would really enjoy this 702 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:13,040 episode. Make sure you share it with 703 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:13,840 them. Thank you. 704 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,280 So much for tuning. In and I'll see you next week.