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stay tuned because we have some awesome information for you.
And actually this is the first guest episode back since or I
should say since I've been back from maternity leave.
So Jessica, this is, this is very exciting.
So for those of you listening who maybe have been here before,
you know, I just got back from maternity leave.
So thank you for your patience while we geared up all of our
guest episodes again. So without further ado, I'm
going to introduce you to our esteemed guest for this week,
Jessica D Winder, who is a working mom of twin girls also.
Which is a very exciting thing because it's not every day that
a twin mom myself meets another twin mom.
So very exciting. But she also serves as a keynote
speaker and career coach. With a refreshingly candid
approach and extensive experience in people operations,
Jessica is on a mission to spark positive change through what she
calls Good Trouble. Her passion lies in fostering
leadership development and empowering individuals and
organizations to unlock their hidden potential.
As the founder of Hidden Gem Career Coaching, Jessica has
guided countless professionals on their career journeys,
offering invaluable insights and strategies.
In her recently published book, The Hidden Gem Within, Jessica
shares her wisdom and practical advice for uncovering and
nurturing one's innate talents and strengths, paving the way
for personal and professional growth.
With Jessica, what you see is what you get, a no nonsense
attitude paired with an unwavering commitment to lifting
others up. What an amazing bio, Jessica.
I'm so glad that everyone on the podcast gets to learn a little
bit about you today. Welcome to the podcast.
I'm so excited to be here and yes to the fellow twin moms,
like we are a little like group that has to support each other.
So I'm so excited to be here. Thank you.
Oh my gosh. Well, I'm really glad that
you're here. And as you, as we've talked
about, I mean, being a twin mom is like no easy feat.
And I really appreciate that you are here recording with me this
afternoon because I know it takes a lot of coordination.
Yes, it absolutely does. But it's like double the fun,
but also just double the everything.
Totally double the everything, right?
Double the bouncers, double the high chair, double the diapers,
double the wipes. Double the.
Everything right? Double the love, double the fun.
Oh my gosh. Well, like I said, I'm really
glad that you're here and grateful for your time.
Let's jump into it. I know when we first started
chatting, you were sharing that you recently went on your own
career journey. That was a a pivot from what you
expected it to be, so to speak. I'm not going to speak for you,
but I know when we think about navigating career challenges,
whether good or the bad, you know it comes with a lot of
humility. It comes with a lot of change.
So do you mind sharing a little bit about your recent career
change or challenge, I should say?
Yeah, definitely a challenge. And I mean that in a positive
way. But I actually think this is so
helpful because a lot of times I think people look at people that
are in a leadership position. And like prior to this role I'm
about to speak about, I was in a senior vice president position.
So, like, people think like, oh, you get to this extreme
leadership position and then like, things just are just
smooth for you. And that's not the case for most
people. So my situation was I had my
twins. I was off for 4 1/2 months, came
back, and I came back to an organization that I knew before
I left that my role was not necessarily secure and that,
like, I was probably going, they could not afford to keep me.
We were going through probably the third round of layoffs at
that point. So when I came back from
maternity leave, I was already kind of on alert like like
what's going to happen. And I have like a really, you
know, honest conversation with like, hey, they can't afford to
keep me. You have until the end of the
year to find something else. And so I was kind of like right
back from maternity leave, like looking for a job.
So it was, it was pretty hectic. It it felt hectic at the time.
Obviously my twins were only like 4 months old and so it felt
really, really shaky to be like, OK, I need to find a new job and
so I ended up finding another job, but it was absolutely not,
not in my area of expertise. I would say I started my career
as a recruiter. I definitely think in every role
I've ever had, I've had to recruit.
But I took a role as a head of talent.
So head of TA like recruiting and honestly from the beginning
knew that like this was a stepping stone.
Like this was something like almost like a placeholder.
Like that's how I would that's how I actually described it to
my family. Like this is a placeholder.
This is not where I want to be long term, but it's something.
To be quite frank, it was like, I need health insurance.
I have these twin babies, like I need health insurance.
So and unfortunately in this country you have to have a job
most places to have health insurance.
You know, it's one of those things and it definitely was one
of those situations where I had to re evaluate like what is
important to me. And I always tell my clients
this, like sometimes you have to do something for a short amount
of time that you don't want to do long term.
And it's hard to say that, but it's true.
And that was my situation. So I took the role knowing that
it's not what I wanted to do long term.
It didn't work out long term. Like I was absolutely not the
right fit. I was not showing up as my best
self because I wasn't happy. So we ended up parting ways
after only three months, but it was the best situation for me
and for them to be like, OK, this is not the right fit for
me. So I say all that to say my
role, like everything about my life is in a pivot right now.
And I mean that in a great way. One of the things I've been
journaling about is just the word pivot.
Like how do I pivot? Pivoting is a really hard and B
really challenging in a in a positive way because it does
challenge you or require you as a person, whether it's you
specifically, you, Jessica or someone else, to think about
what you want, what you don't want, what you like, what you
don't like. And I really appreciate you
sharing that story and your background because so many
listeners reach out about, you know, when is the right time to
make a change. Am I going to be happy if I take
this job that I'm not really enthused about or I really want
to go into something else? I want to pivot?
How easy is that going to be? How difficult is that going to
be? What do I need to know?
And when I hear you talking about journaling, that's a great
practice. I like in over the summer I had
a guest on and I was like I'm going to journal and I did it
for a while while I was pregnant.
And then of course you have twins and then it's like
nothing, nothing, barely have time to even like formulate a
thought. But I'm really glad that you're
journaling because it is a great way to practice, I guess what
they call mindfulness, right, because you're actively thinking
about what you have and what you want and what you need.
And so I guess a question for you then is when you think about
the things that you really want out of your career, are they the
same as what you or are they consistent with what you thought
they were? Or has journaling allowed you to
think differently and then now your career needs or wants look
different? Yeah, there absolutely has been
a shift in the way that I did it.
And I don't know what book I read this in, but I read some
book that talked about writing down your career crushes.
So like, places that you're crushing on, whether it's a
leader that's there or it's like the product of the company or
like something that they're doing, it could be anything, the
reason that you want to work there.
And so that's what I started out journaling is like, OK, where
are my crushes? And like, why am I interested in
these certain companies? Some of these companies, it's
because I've worked for a past leader that's there and I really
admire them. Some of them, I like their
product, but even just writing that out became clear to me on
like what I actually want to be doing.
And I've never, and this is gonna sound funny, but I've
never considered myself to be very when it comes to work
purpose driven. It's very much like, oh, I can
work for any industry, I work in HR, all that stuff.
But now I'm leaning towards like, no, I actually do want
some type of purpose in like liking the product or liking
what's going on. Whereas in the beginning of my
career I started my career in oil and gas.
I didn't care about oil and gas like it was, but I like the
people that I worked with, you know.
So I definitely think and the older I get, the more it is
important to me what the company does, which is a change.
And I don't, I'm be honest, I never saw that coming.
That's really interesting to hear.
I mean we like, I'm sure you've spoken with candidates about
mission driven companies or even like clients that you might have
coached if someone because there are people who are specific
about wanting mission driven companies.
I work for a mission driven company and it wasn't until I
started working here that I thought about that because like
you I was like, like yeah, I mean I always worked in retail.
I'm like, well I'm a consumer and I love the product that we
sell or like when I worked at Target, I was like it's a job
and then I was like oh, I actually really love Target.
It wasn't like I really love Target.
Let me go work there. And so now what I'm hearing you
saying is that you've uncovered this interest in finding the
appreciation or the love for what it is that the company
sells or does or backs. And then it's like, OK, let me
go and apply there because I love what they do, what they
sell, what they promote. So it's interesting and I mean
maybe it's because we're in like HR roles where we're kind of
serving a purpose within a purpose driven company that
maybe we're not thinking about what the company's purpose is
and we're only thinking about our purpose within the company.
I don't know if, you know, maybe people in engineering are way
more focused on the mission or the product of a company.
Maybe I'm just psychoanalyzing this.
No, I agree with you. I definitely think it's
something to be said there. I in my 20s, I would just say I
was very money focused. So it was like listen, if you're
gonna pay me, I will be HR for anybody like you know.
And now I don't I can say I don't feel that way.
I do not feel that way at all. I feel like I need to be one
very in tune with the leadership team.
That's very important to me. I've journaled about what I want
my relationship to be like with my future CEO, whoever I go work
with, like we have to be on the same page because I've been
places where that wasn't the case and it was just so much
resistance that I I can't do that again.
So that's the first thing, like the relationship with the CEO
and then like what what are they actually doing and how are they
impacting the community or wherever they are?
That's also important to me. That's great.
Do you think that becoming a mother is really the catalyst
for this difference in your Yeah.
Yes, absolutely. There's no doubt in my mind, I
am of the mind frame that anytime that I'm away from my
daughters, it needs to be for a reason.
And I say that with like true purpose.
Like like if I'm going to be away from them, like what am I
getting out of this? Like what?
What am I growing? Is something happening?
Am I helping somebody else grow? Like if I'm coaching, like what
am I doing? So yes, it's it's very much my
mind frame has changed. That's so profound.
I feel the same way. It's and I wouldn't be surprised
if every new parent but especially mothers feel that way
because it is it's sacred time like the the you don't get more
time in life and they are never as small as they are and it's
it's really very like tender and so when you think of that time
like what you the opportunity cost of you spending time away
from them. I feel I feel the exact same
way. It's like if I'm going to step
away from being with them in that moment it has to be for
something that's worth that time And then it's like OK well what
is the worth? Is it financial worth Is it this
purpose driven worth and realistically like the money.
I feel like I was the same way in the 20s it was all about the
dollar signs and now I'm like OK, well I could get paid.
That's great. Or I could do something that
pays me that that I'm getting paid to do, but I'm actually
more fulfilled by the what and the why.
And it sounds like that's basically where you are at,
where you're like, OK, well, if I'm going to spend my time away
from my daughters, then that time that I'm spending has to be
invaluable. It has to be worth what I would
be getting out of spending time as a mother.
It's really. Hard.
It's hard to to work and be a parent.
Yes. And this came up recently
because I flew out. I live in Vegas.
I flew out to Seattle and to to basically film some content for
a partnership that I'm doing. And they were like, oh, we can
fly you out. The day before all this, I was
like, oh, absolutely not. I'm flying out first thing in
the morning and I am flying back for bedtime.
I was like, that's important to me.
Like, I will, we have to make this work to where I can get
there in the morning and I'm leaving that night and I want to
be back here by a certain time. And we made it work and it was
perfect. But that was just like a prime
example of like, yeah, I will travel to you, but I will.
I'm not staying. Like, I'm flying in, I'm flying
out. And I've done this twice in the
last. My girls are nine months, so in
the last nine months I've done it.
I've done that twice where I flew out that morning, flew back
that night. But that's just a prime example
of like, what's important to me. In my 20s, I've been like, How
many days can I stay right? Because I have friends, I've got
restaurants I want to try. I want to go and and tour
Seattle on your dime. Totally.
That's so funny.
You and I are very alike. It's really that's, you know,
I'm inspired because I've been asked to travel and I was
talking to my husband about this and we were like, it's just
we're not ready. I'm not.
And it and it was like cross country travel.
I'm in New York and this was to go out to California.
And I was like any other moment of my life I would have been
like, great, when do you need me to be there?
Now I'm like, oh, I don't know, because who's going to watch
them? My husband works a very
demanding job. Like I can't be away from them
for that long. How will, how will I function In
a way, because it's it's like even if you have healthy
boundaries with your work life and your personal life and being
a parent, it's still like, I don't know if you feel this way.
It's kind of like I feel like I'm going to miss out on
something major if I'm away from them for more than 24 hours.
Yes, absolutely. It's it's a thing.
And I will say I went so like back and forth and I will say
that first trip, you know, full transparency that I took.
I was still breastfeeding so I had to like take a pump with me.
I had to literally have them set up an A room where I could go.
And so it was such a production. And I was like, I'm willing to
do this because I think that this is important.
And but these are what I need. Like, this is what I need to
make me comfortable, to make it, make me do this.
And we did it. But I know so many people in my
life that when I told that I did that, they were like, oh, wow,
Like, I didn't, I wouldn't have asked.
Like, I wouldn't have felt comfortable asking for those
things. And so I kind of just want to
say if you're listening to this, like, ask, ask.
People are willing to accommodate you.
You have to ask, though. And that part of the motherhood
career journey has been just a whole new facet to me of like,
I'm going to ask for all these things if you want me there.
This is what needs to happen. Right.
And if you don't ask, you'll never receive.
I mean there's the, the age-old phrase ask and you shall receive
because fundamentally the only person who is ever going to
advocate for you is yourself. That that's just, you know, it
is what it is. And if people are upset by that,
then they just haven't learned that yet.
And I I think it's really, it's really great that you knew
exactly what you needed. I mean it's it's really hard.
There's a lot of pressure societally business wise on
women, especially when they return from maternity leave or
when they're going out on maternity leave, to act a
certain way, be a certain way, come back better than ever, be
able to manage everything. And even if we do those things
and we manage our or I should say balance or find harmony
between our work lives and our personal lives, that's a great
thing. But there are so many ways in
which it can all kind of like fall apart or you feel like it's
just a lot. And so I think for you to be
able to articulate what it is that you needed in order to be
able to make that travel beneficial for you and others,
like that's a wonderful thing. I think most of the time where
people find themselves getting tripped up is when they are
unable to articulate what they need because they don't know
what they need before they go through the motions of what,
whether it's traveling or going back to work.
Like when I was, I just did a maternity leave or return from
maternity leave episode for my podcast and I talked about how
one of the ways in which I believe I should say it came
out, it will come out this week that we're recording.
So it's not out yet, but by the time this episode is out, it
will be out. But I shared that one of the
reasons why I think I returned from maternity leave in a way
that feels really good and successful is because I did all
of this preparation before coming back.
Like I didn't return. I didn't dread returning to
work. I wasn't like anxious about it.
And it's because of that heavy lifting that you ultimately have
to do mentally to prepare for all of the changes because it
you are totally a different person when you come back and or
when you go from being just an adult to then being a parent
like that's it's just so much change.
Yeah, I had a coach. So I will say this.
I had like a coach who was a working mom who has four kids
and literally she coached me before I went out on leave and
like to come back to work. And this was a benefit that the
company had paid for. It was service called parently
like they like I had a like basically a a mom coach, like
best thing that ever happened to me.
Like she's amazing. I will forever keep in touch
with her. But yeah, it was the preparation
to like get my team set up because I had a team of people
working under me. And so that was another thing in
my role. I want to say is that I did not
know of anyone else at. My SPP level that had gone out
on maternity leave. So that was also something that
was on my shoulders of like, OK, I want to do this right because
I don't want them to feel like, you know, like I'm uncommitted
and all these these are things that were going through my head,
but they were extremely kind and like I had like a transition
back into work plan, you know, all of I was definitely set up
to win. That's one thing I will say
about my maternity leave. I was set up to be successful
and I know that's coming from a place of privilege because there
are other people that were not at my level that may not have
felt the same way. So I just want to acknowledge
that because I do know that like leaders sometimes get things
that other people don't get and that was absolutely didn't my
case, but it it definitely was a different situation.
That's a great point. I've I feel like it's come up on
my podcast before some of these differences between leaders or
non leaders or tenured employees versus those who are just coming
in and it does kind of come back to advocacy.
Like, I think, you know, the best thing that we can do for
the listeners is help them to understand that they can be
advocates for themselves, whether it's maternity leave
related or even just career growth, which I know you're also
really passionate about helping people to just find their their
best selves within businesses or within careers and their
careers. And when you think about
yourself, or at least in in my perspective, when I think about
advocacy as part of being a businesswoman, as part of being
an employee and a company, it's like through that mindset that
I'm able to always think about what do I want out of my career,
what do I want today, What do I want my experience to be like?
And then it kind of comes back to, am I doing something that I
really enjoy? Because my time is worth a lot.
And so I need to make sure I'm enjoying what I'm doing.
And so this does kind of come back to ultimately what we're
talking about, which is navigating these career
challenges. And I would love to kind of pass
it back to you. How do you, how do you advocate
for yourself when you are in a process, whether it's looking
for a job or interviewing actively for a job?
What do you tell yourself and what do you tell your clients in
terms of advocating for what you need?
Yeah, so this was, this is a great question because I
literally just wrote a LinkedIn post that I haven't posted yet.
But by the time this is up, it will be posted where I was
saying, if you are a working parent and flexibility is
something that is important to you when you're interviewing,
ask. Like at the very end, you know,
normally you can ask to speak to someone and you know it's the
final rounds, not at the beginning.
At the end, at the end ask, can I speak to somebody that works
there that's a working parent. I've done this before and it was
amazing because then I got to ask them like, hey, you're a
working parent, like what time are you normally done, even if
this person is on a different team?
Because then you get to understand what are expectations
for you like, Is there truly flexibility?
Is it team specific? Because sometimes, like
depending on, you know, if you're in finance certain times
of the month that you're, you can't be flexible.
And like same thing with sales when quotas are due.
But talking to another parent that works there, and I told a
client to do this recently and they're like, I can do that and
I'm like absolutely, like ask to speak to someone.
Now mind you, the company can absolutely say no, but I have
never encountered anyone saying no.
You can't speak to a working parent because why not?
Especially at the very end when they're trying to get you to
sign the offer letter. Like why not ask to speak to
someone a lot of times? And this can go for anything.
So it doesn't have to be parents.
It can be, you know, you want to speak to someone who looks like
you or has some type of, you know, the same demographics as
you, if that's something that you know you want to talk to
someone about. So it can be anything that is
important to you that you want to speak to someone to confirm
that what you've been told throughout the interview process
is true. That's fabulous advice.
I've never done that. I've never thought about doing
that. But it's really, really sage
advice. And my second thought to Wow,
that's great advice. Is that you?
There is a a moment in an interview process where it
switches from you selling yourself to the business,
selling themselves to you. So it's like and everyone feels
that like you can really feel you're like, oh, I'm close, like
this is feeling right. I think they're going to give me
an offer. And when you're at that end
stage, you really don't have a ton to lose.
Like you're interviewing, you're looking for this job.
Sure, getting a job is the goal, but it doesn't help if you have
these parameters that are super important to you, like
flexibility, which is the example you used.
And then you don't get that out of the job.
So you might as well find that out ahead of time rather than
being afraid to ask that question.
And it's also another opportunity for you to
demonstrate commitment to that organization because again they
there's that moment in time where it pivots from you selling
yourself to you being able to kind of almost take a passive
seat and allowing the business to sell themselves to you.
So I think it's really good advice and I could, I could only
imagine that if a company said no, we can't offer that to you
that it would just result in you saying OK, this is.
Not exactly. So it says more if they say no,
but I've never had that happen. And I've been in the process
from like an HR standpoint where people have asked to speak to,
you know, someone on a different team or someone, you know what I
mean? Like that wasn't a part of the
interview process, so it is becoming more common, but be
strategic about it. Yeah, I love that.
And actually, I'll make sure that we share your LinkedIn post
in the show notes so that everyone can engage too.
Because now they're hearing this advice.
And hopefully they'll also comment on your post so that
they can, you know, share how excited they are by getting such
great advice for free. Because that's the beauty of a
podcast, right? You know, I'm, I'm curious
because you have had such a successful career and you, you
know, have done so much with clients of yours.
You've written a book. Is there advice that you would
tell your junior HR self, like, let's just think back to your
first year in HRI. Know it's nostalgia, right?
I'm like thinking about my own career here.
Is there anything that you would tell yourself, whether it's
advice or do's and don'ts, that you feel you wish you had had at
that stage in your career in the beginning?
I think what I would tell myself if I went back to, like I said,
I started started an oil and gas and I absolutely had like a
great mentor in that role. I wish I would have asked to
basically go shadow different departments.
So I wish I would have spent some time in finance, spent some
time in operations, all of that stuff.
Because I, now, you know, 13 years later, have learned all
those different departments and understand like how like they
impact the business. But young Jessica did not
understand that. I just knew like I'm an HR, this
is my box, I'm going to stay in my box.
So to younger people or people that are just getting started in
HR, you're doing a career pivot. That's my go to advice for every
single person is you have to understand all aspects of the
business and how the business makes money.
And if you don't then employees are not going to respect you.
And so that is, that's what I would have told young Jessica.
Like you got to understand it all.
Yeah, it's another piece of great advice if you when people
in HR know the business, they automatically have almost this
camaraderie and a rapport that's built into their relationships
because they're taken more seriously.
It's like, oh, you know, about something that that I wouldn't
expect HR to know. This is great.
Let me actually listen to half the things that you're about to
talk to me about. You know, it really is.
It's a really great point and and also when you get to the
place where you're in that role, where you can start affecting
change or making decisions, you have much more information now,
much more data to be able to make more sound decisions.
It's good advice. I have a funny story about this.
So when I lived in Chicago, I worked as the first HR director
for the biggest crime scene cleanup company in the world.
So and as you know a lot of crimes are committed at night.
So the the field text would be out at night in the way that it
would work is like a crimes committed.
The police come and people think like the please clean it up.
They don't. So that's a private company that
comes and cleans up the crime scene wherever it is.
And so when I started there my first month, I was like, I'm
going to go out with the field techs, like I'm going to go out
with you. Oh my gosh.
Jessica No, I did. I did.
And I got so much respect for them.
Literally, they told me like they were like, we've worked
here for years. We've never even met an HR
person. Like, we didn't even like you
guys because there was a head office.
And then the field techs worked out like, you know, it's at
night and for a whole month I went out with them to crime
scenes. Now, mind you, I did not clean
up because I'm not a tech, because I'm not trained in all
of that and like the hazmat suits and the whole thing, but I
did go out with them and like was out with them.
Like I would go out starting at like 9:00 till you know,
probably like 3-4 in the morning and be out with them at crime
scenes and like talking to them and just like having them get to
know me and the amount of respect I gained from that day
forward when I started a new company, I'm going to whatever
we do, I'm going to be there because I want to understand.
So when I went and worked in retail as HRI went and worked in
the store, you know, like you be a cashier, be be stalking
because you get respect that way.
But yeah, that's my claim to fame is that I went out with the
crime scene text, that is. I I have so many any thoughts
like the first thought which is like the HR thought which is you
absolutely getting the buy in from the team, you don't get
that time back 100% best way you can invest in those
relationships. So I totally agree because in
the frame of like retail agreed you spend time in store you get
a ton of respect that way. My second thought, which was
really my first thought, was like, holy crap, Oh my gosh,
that's like, if anyone's watching the video, you saw my
face. I was like, control the face,
control the face. No, literally.
Yeah. Crime scene clean up company.
I was their first HR person. I mean, first of all, kudos to
you because as important as the buy in is, I don't know if I
would have the strength because I would be really afraid,
honest, like you think of like crime scenes, you know, like
immediately you're like, OK, the worst case scenario, it's a
murder and it's like that. And then you have to see that
and then you never get the the thought of that out of your
brain. So it's like my question to you
is like, did you, did you you were on the scene with them or
you stayed in the van like you? Were I stayed in the van, so I I
also got more respect because I was like listen I respect you
guys enough to know that I can't do this and most of the
employees there were ex military ex like ambulance aunts you know
what I mean? So they like were.
They were. They knew.
I literally told them like, I'm, I'm not your girl, I'm here to
support you guys, but I can't go in there.
And they were like, no, get it, Please don't.
We don't want to have to clean up your throw up.
Because that was I. That was a very important
question I had to ask you. Because even if you had said to
me, Yep, I was there, I would have the same respect as I do
for you presently, you know, But I would be like we have to take
this offline. And I have to ask you, are you
OK? Like, do you need resources?
Because that must be really hard.
I know, you know, look, my husband's in medicine.
Like, I know that when you're around it, you become familiar
or like used to it or maybe even immune to it.
But it's like just coming back to the whole point of what
you're saying, like that's that's major.
And for them, for them not ever having exposure to someone in
HR, you've like, really? You've changed their
experiences, their lives Because all you have to do is go on to a
Reddit thread and you see that everyone's like, oh, HR, like
they suck. It's all, yeah, I mean, it just
takes one Literally Did. Never met anyone in HR.
So it was, it was, it was great. And I think they just got to
know me like, you know, I'm, you know, out in the truck eating
Cheetos, just doing my own thing, you know, like they got
to know me as a person. Yeah.
That's amazing. That's amazing.
And then I would imagine that they felt really comfortable
reaching out to you if they had questions.
Yeah. So it it absolutely resulted in
a lot of like great changes because then I understood like
when I was making policies the real impact it was going to have
on them out in the field when you know at corporate where
they're eight to five, they don't even start working till
the night time, you know, so it we were kind of like shifts in
the night. So I strongly suggest you have
to know the business. Not saying you got to go in the
crime scene, but you got to know the business.
That's amazing. I I think that is an article in
and of itself. You should get that story to
print if it's not published already.
I think that's amazing. And it really is a testament to
the type of leader that you are. And hopefully it comes up on any
interviews that you do. Because I think if I were
interviewing you and I heard that story, it's like that's you
get all of the information that you need about a person in that
type of story because then you have like a servant leader, you
have someone really committed to their people, committed to the
business, right? Like every single thing that you
want an interviewer to get about you in an interview, you get
through that story. So that's amazing.
Yeah, they would. It's funny because they would
like, reach back out to me and be like, so you want to head
back out and I'll be like, no, I'll take you to lunch.
Like, go eat. Like 9:00 PM is like kind of
when I'm already in bed. Like, that's amazing, though.
That's amazing. Well, I can only say thank you
because you've shared so much insightful information not only
for me but also the listeners who really are at a point.
Many of them are at a point in their careers where they're
trying to figure out, do I pivot, do I enter HR?
How do I do that? What are some ways that I can do
that successfully? And I've.
I think you've given them like a ton of really great advice.
So I really appreciate you doing that and I appreciate your time.
And so with that, I'd love for you to share with the audience
where they can connect with you, whether they want to just chat
or get some coaching, where where can they connect?
Yeah, absolutely. So I would say I post every day
on LinkedIn. That's like my main, my favorite
social media is LinkedIn, which I know makes me sound like a
nerd. I don't care.
So LinkedIn and then my website is hidden.
Gym, careercoaching.com and so those would be the best two
places. And I would love to hear from
you guys. If anybody wants to chat, I'm
always open. Amazing.
Thank you so much for being the 1st guest.
Since coming back. Welcome back.
Thank you. Thanks so much.
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