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That's quickbooks.com/payroll. Welcome to the Bringing the
human back to human Resources podcast.
I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've spent my entire professional
career in HR. Each week, we'll explore the
delicate balance between people and business with the aim to
reconnect the two and create meaningful outcomes.
Listen in as I share my own experiences, challenge the
status quo, and chat with guests from various industries about
our mission to bring the human back to human resources.
Welcome back to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources
podcast. Thank you so much for being here
for another week. This week is actually a really
exciting episode for me because it's probably the first time
ever that I've had someone from a very notable healthcare and
insurance company actually join my podcast.
So this is very exciting. I mean, it's exciting for me, I
think because, you know, we get to, we get to ask maybe some
hard hitting questions from an expert who we otherwise might
not have been able to hear from. So we're going to talk a lot
about perimenopause and the impact on the workplace today.
And for those of you who maybe are not women and you're, you're
like, well, how does this impact me in any way?
You are listening to this podcast because you are in or
involved in HR And so this impacts you, it impacts your
people. So continue to listen.
And I'm sure that you will get a ton of tremendous value and
information out of this episode. So let me introduce you to Wendy
Sherry, who is the Chief Executive Officer for Global
Health Benefits within International Health at Cigna
Healthcare, overseeing the globally mobile employer
marketplace across Europe and the Americas.
She leads the delivery of affordable, high quality
healthcare to more than 3700 clients in over 250 countries
with operations and sales in over 30 countries and
jurisdictions. Previously, she served as Senior
Vice President of Cigna's US Commercial Markets, President of
Cigna Payer Solutions, and President of Cigna Connecticut,
driving growth in market share, earnings and product innovation.
Her career at Cigna spans finance, product development,
strategy, network contracting, distribution operations and PNL
management just to name a few, and this experience enables her
to identify cross organizational opportunities and deliver
results. Before joining Cigna, Wendy
Wendy began her career in public accounting at Ernst and Young,
and she serves as an advisor to Hello Heart, a digital health
company and supports healthcare equity angels and investor
network promoting diversity driven healthcare startups.
She's a strong advocate for inclusion and the advancement of
women in leadership. And Wendy is also a graduate of
Emory University with a bachelor's degree in business
administration. She was also a former certified
public accountant and is an alumna of Cigna's financial
development program. Wendy, welcome.
Thank you. So thank you, of course.
What a lovely introduction and actually very timely as this
week actually marks my 30 year anniversary at Cigna.
So all of that that you've talked about happened within the
last 30 years, which is unbelievable to think about.
That's amazing. Well, congratulations on 30
years. I mean, I in a way, I am kind of
relieved that it took you 30 years to do all of that because
otherwise if you were like, yeah, I did that in the last
five years, I feel like, what am I doing wrong?
No, that's, I mean, that's really, really amazing.
And you know, to, to hear about the way that your career has
pivoted and, and traversed so many different avenues and
paths. I, it's really inspirational to
me. And one of the things that I had
shared with you when we previously spoke was that I was
really excited to help the audience understand kind of how
you as a, a woman in leadership yourself ended up in the
significant role that you're in at a very large enterprise.
And so I'm wondering if you can kind of give us a little bit of
a high level overview into what that last 30 years looked like?
Yeah, no, I would be pleased to do that.
And as you said, I always like to share my story as a way to
help other women who aspire to be in roles like this see the
pathway, right? Be a role model, see the
pathway. But I will tell you, right, it
absolutely takes work to achieve these roles.
And it's not just, it's not enough, as I always say, to just
deliver on results because that is core and foundational.
Every role that I have been in across my 30 year journey, I
have absolutely delivered on my commitments, right?
Delivered the results that were required for the role that I was
in. But it's more than that, right?
It's about networking. It's about creating visibility.
Visibility, not only for yourself but for your teams
because as a leader, it's all about the team.
So it's not just enough to show your accomplishments, but how
you are enabling the accomplishments across the team.
I love that. In fact, it does kind of bring
up for me the the notion of, you know, hire people who are
smarter than you or hire people who are better than XY and Z
than you to be on your team. Because that's, you know, that's
where you can find all of this ability to XLS a team rather
than taking everything on as an individual and taking a
hierarchical approach to things. Absolutely, Tracy, there's a
couple of things that come to mind as, as you say that.
So one of the phrases that my team often hears me say is if
all the good ideas come from me, we are in trouble.
So you are right, you need to have a team that in many ways is
smarter than you in certain areas, right?
Because it's all about perspective.
You read in my bio how I'm all about inclusive leadership.
It's really around that diverse perspectives and ensuring that
you have a team that can bring those diverse perspectives to
the table so that we can solve problems, so that we can create
values, so that we can continue to grow, right?
So that's one thing that your comment triggered for me.
The other thing is as a leader, you do not have to be an expert
in everything. What you need to understand as a
leader is where you are not as expert and then you need to hire
the best and the smartest people to make sure that their
expertise in areas that you might not have again, help to
compliment the team and help to enable us to fulfill our mission
and our objectives. I love that it's so true.
I always talk about on my podcast how I've worked with
some like unbelievable compensation and benefits HR
leaders and that that is like, it is so important to know what
you're like not interested in or not good at to your point and
comp and bend in case you haven't can't tell already from
where I'm going with this is really not what I'm so
passionate about. And I have had the pleasure of
working with people who like eat, sleep and breathe that type
of work. And that's who you want in those
roles. And so I really can appreciate
what you're saying in terms of how you've taken this type of
inclusive leadership throughout the last three decades of your
career. And that that's, I would
imagine, in many ways transformed your own career
because you've been able to help amplify and uplift the people
around you, which is. Fabulous.
Absolutely. You know, people always talk
about what's the legacy that they want to leave, you know,
when they decide to go on to that next chapter into
retirement or, or what have you. And what you just said is
something that I always think about, right?
I want to be remembered as a person that helped others
achieve their career aspirations, right?
So I obviously am very proud of what I've achieved and I'm
excited about what we are able to deliver and the promise of
the future in terms of the additional value, the objectives
that we'll be able to achieve. But it's all about the team,
right? None of what we accomplish in
fulfilling our purpose, in fulfilling our performance
objectives happens without the best team.
And if I can help individuals understand their career
aspirations and help them to find a pathway to achieving
that, to me, I've had a incredible career.
That's amazing. I love that.
What legacy do we want to leave? I love that and you know, I
think it's probably a a good opportunity now that we have a
better understanding of who Wendy Sherry is that I ask you
how you found yourself so immersed in this topic of
perimenopause and the impact on the workplace.
I of course, given where you work and that you've worked for
Cigna for so long that naturally these types of topics are
relevant, right? Of course, that's understood.
But how did you find yourself kind of even coming on my
podcast, for example, to talk about perimenopause?
And certainly I also would love if you can share what
perimenopause even is for those who might not, might not know.
Yeah. So, you know, it's so
interesting because if you would have said to me five years ago,
right, when I was actually going through my menopause journey,
that I would be talking in a podcast, in a public forum
around this topic, because again, that's five years ago,
people were not talking about this.
And, you know, yes, I was sharing my experiences with my
female colleagues, with my friends, but certainly not in a
broad audience like this. So it is incredibly exciting to
me that we are at a point in this society where we can talk
about these things because it impacts so many people.
If you think about our own workforces, 50% or more of them
are comprised of women, right? This is something that every
woman will go through. So you are talking about large
and growing cohorts of women who are moving through this journey
from perimenopause to menopause. So just for a moment, you asked,
let's define it, right? Because a lot of people don't
even understand this perimenopause phase, which is
really a precursor in menopause, right?
It's when your hormones in your body begin to fluctuate, you
begin to experience some of those symptoms that are more
recognizable in menopause, right?
But those symptoms of fatigue, anxiety, brain fog, sleep
deprivation, right? All of those things start to
rear their ugly head in your 40s, sometimes even earlier in
your 30s, right? Which is why we're talking about
this whole Millennium population.
And they're starting to progress into this period of
perimenopause, right? Again, the precursor to
menopause. So again, I'm just thrilled that
we're at a point where we can have this conversation.
And you know, it is part of what impacts women.
As you said, as I've talked about, I'm passionate about
ensuring that everyone has an opportunity to achieve their
career aspirations with an extra asterisk on women.
So this topic impacts women and therefore that's why I'm here to
talk about it. That's amazing.
Well, thank you. And you know, actually the in
terms of the listeners of my podcast, almost 80% of listeners
are women. And so when I think about the
relevance of topics like this and how timely and apartment the
discussion is to your point that we actually can even have this
discussion is kind of amazing. And and you know, certainly I
think I might have even joked about this with you when we
first spoke that, you know, this is my podcast, so I can kind of
do whatever I want. So even if we, if it's not
typical to talk about this, like maybe we would have, but I do
think that understanding the societally this is way more
accepted in terms of, you know, being less taboo a subject.
I think that's that means that we're moving in the right
direction. And especially if we put this
topic in the context, the broader context of at least
within the United States and that that framework that women
in terms of their access to leaves and different types of
leaves, whether it's from the start of their, their journeys,
you know, whether they're choosing to have children or
they're, they want to have children in the future, what
that fertility journey might look like for them.
All of those things that then eventually migrate into this
perimenopause, menopause conversation, because naturally
it is a, it is a timeline as we all know quite well.
I think it's, it's really important that that women and
just listeners in general, because again, we all, whether
we're women or not, have an impact on what the workplace
looks and feels like. That there are ways that
businesses that workplaces have added value for women in these
in these circumstances so that they can have access to leaves
where their states might not otherwise provide them those
opportunities or options. And so all of that to say is
that I think we're seeing even more of a societal shift because
there are some states that have instituted new laws around
menopause leave or perimenopause protection and things like that.
So I'm curious if you have any insight into some of those
states or some of those data points around where people where
women are being kind of protected by some of their
governments locally or you know, state specific?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'll sort of answer your
question in terms of talking about sort of this evolution,
right? Because you're right, even if
you think about, you know, the start of this hormonal journey,
right, when folks are having babies, building their families,
etcetera, right. I think back to when I was in
that phase, the the solutions and the support that I had
actually 1000 in comparison to what is available today.
Like in many ways, I'm envious, right, of these women who will
come behind me and will have far better support in terms of
solutions that are available in the space of, you know,
infertility, in the space of, to your point, leaves and
flexibility as it relates to work.
So we've come a really long way in supporting women and families
around family forming and all of that.
And now we're on this path towards, we get to do the same
thing as the hormone hormonal health journey continues, right?
Because that's really again what it is.
So I'm super excited because employers like my own companies
like mine are beginning to make available solutions to women to
help them A, understand what's going on with their body B help
to provide them solutions and support and even provide them
access to providers in the network that can help them on
this journey. So again, I'll just speak for
Cigna has my employer. And we've actually also enabled
some of these solutions to be available to our broader
employer populations. But we have virtual networks of
providers who are educated and trained specifically in the
topics of perimenopause and menopause, right?
So many doctors who have, you know, went to medical school
20-30 years ago, this was not a major topic.
So now there are providers that are certified or specialized in,
in this and we ensure that our female employees, our female
customers can have access to these kinds of providers.
So I love that more employers are looking to offer these
solutions, my employer and again, our ability to offer it
as a choice to other employers. But you also talked about the
regulatory environment, right? So again, Terry, similar to what
I what we talked about, you know, in terms of when people
are having babies and making sure that the regulations and
the laws protect women and families in those situations,
we're starting to see that same thing happen from the menopause
and perimenopause front. So, you know, right now we're
seeing probably close to two dozen bills that are out there
around this topic. We're starting to see some
states start to put in laws that will mandate that employers
offer these benefits. I'm certainly happy to to know
that many employers aren't waiting to be mandated.
They're actually realizing the benefit and the value of
offering the support in these solutions without having the
mandate. Amazing.
I love what you said that seeing employers add these.
I, I don't even want to say like benefits because it's really
just, it's almost like adding this recognition that there's
support needed for this population of women, which to
your point can be starting as early as, you know, the 30s for
some women, depending on their own kind of genetic makeup and
circumstances. And I think that's the key.
I mean, people all the time talk about how limiting the
government is in terms of the support that they provide.
Let's just say families, whether it's in starting their their
journeys, as you mentioned, or toward the end of their their
journeys and having families, if that's what they decide to do.
And it really is also very state dependent.
I live in New York. I have great, great options.
But if I lived in other parts of the country, I might not be
saying the same thing. And this is where companies have
such a. Act because when companies are
like, who cares what the government says is the required
minimum? Let's do what actually makes
sense and is actually a true benefit for our employees across
the nation and potentially even across the globe.
I mean, working for a multinational company myself,
there are so many ways that at the decision making front, you
can we can have an impact on healthcare for hundreds,
thousands of employees, regardless of where they live
and regardless of what the statutory minimums or
requirements are within those, you know, within those
regulatory environments, whether it's the local, the state, the
province, whatever it might be. And I was curious to see, you
know, which states really have these like mandates around
workplace accommodations for menopause.
And to my knowledge, I know that there I think that Illinois is
kind of like on the front of adding this, but I believe it's
only Rhode Island currently that has a very specific law
mandating workplace accommodations for menopause.
And I don't know if you have the say, if you have different
information, but I am certainly not the most up to date on these
laws. But I think this is where when
we even think about in recent years where the Pregnancy
Disability Leave Act was added just in I think in the last
three years or so to the to FMLA and like the federal mandates.
I think this is where when we see, to your point, you know,
dozens of bills kind of cropping up around how women are
supported at this stage of their lives, that hopefully we'll see
more and more states start to rise to the occasion so that
employers are not kind of left to their own guesses on these
things. Yeah.
So a couple of. Reactions, you're right, Rhode
Island is the first state to actually enact workplace
protections. So to your point, similar to,
you know, what we see around other classes, right?
So workplace protections as it relates to menopause, New York,
New Jersey, so New York where you are, they're weighing
similar measures to address menopause.
You're also right, states like Illinois and also I would add to
it, Louisiana have already passed laws that require
insurance to cover menopause treatment.
So, and as I noted a moment ago, right, there's dozens of bills
and other states that are also continuing to evaluate this
topic. But I also go, I want to go back
to this notion of like, let's not wait to be mandated.
Let's just understand it as a business imperative.
So if if you think about a couple of data points for a
second, right, 50% of millennial women today are experiencing
these symptoms of perimenopause, whether they know it or they
don't know it, they haven't labeled it as such. 50%, right,
74% of our global workforce will be in this millennial or right
behind them, Gen. Z population by 20-30.
That's just a few years from now, right?
So think about the massive amount of people that I've just
described that are going to be coming to work every day
impacted by this condition, right?
And by the way, like that number, that amount of people is
probably more than those that are suffering from diabetes,
more than those that are suffering from, you know,
musculoskeletal or pain caused by that.
It's a large population. And as an employer, in order for
you to deliver on your mission and purpose, in order for you to
achieve your financial objectives, you need every
single person to be at their best, their best health, their
best vitality. So programs like this help
employees to be at their best so they can help fuel the purpose
and the performance of the company, right?
So if I'm an employer, I'm not waiting to be told what to do.
I'm taking action today. And like I said to you, my
company is already offering these types of benefits to our
employees. We're making these solutions
available to clients that we serve.
That's amazing and and really well said that we, we as
employers, we can't wait for someone to tell us what to do.
We have to be waiting a very long time.
And we know also that, you know, what the government says is the,
the, the requirement or the mandatory minimum is hardly
enough even, you know, if we think about, again, I think
sometimes the easiest thing to compare this to is pregnancy or,
you know, if someone needs to go on a medical leave, that there's
job protection, but unless your state provides wage replacement,
you're unpaid. And so it when we think about
where companies have an impact in the same instance of, you
know, menopause being a medical event, I would I would hope and
assume that menopause would be covered.
Obviously, we know, as we just talked about, some of these
states are more clear in terms of the accommodation side of
things. But if a company doesn't see
this call to action to say, Oh yeah, for medical events,
regardless of what they are, we need to provide some wage
replacement so that we can make it easier for our people to
perform and to be their best selves.
Then you there is going to be a huge mess even at with my
employer, we offer like a paid care leave that's separate from
whatever state or you know, requirement there might be.
And so regardless of whether, you know, it's something that
the federal or state government would recognize as something
that's a medical event, we're we are providing that opportunity
for wage replacement. And I think this is really
again, where if people in states are where we're not even
necessarily seeing wage replacement for anything, let
alone for something like menopause, which is kind of this
next frontier for medical and societal kind of change in terms
of the support that people are receiving governmentally, then
you know, there is there's a missed mark there.
And especially if we put into context how many people are
impacted or will be impacted in the next five years, as you
mentioned. And it is, it's a little
daunting. First of all, it's a little
daunting to think that 2030 is only five years away and
actually less than 5 because we're almost at the end of 2025
where we are at the end, I should say of 2025.
So it's kind of kind of a little scary, but this is, it just goes
to show you that if companies don't set in motion their
intentions for supporting their teams holistically that they're
going to be last to the gate. And then ultimately there's a
whole talent retention and attraction issue there too,
right? Because if we know that 50% of
the population in the workforce are are women, then that 50%,
you know, they're going to be smart consumers.
They're going to find companies that protect their interests,
whether these other companies like it or not.
Yeah, no, you hit the nail on the head.
I was going to bring up the whole talent and retention
strategy, right? Because especially if you think
about millennials and Gen. Z's right behind them, they are
demanding more from their employers.
Like that's just our reality. And you know, some of the
research that we've looked at, you know, 3/4 of that population
do expect that their employer would be offering these types of
benefits. So to your point, if you're an
employer that's not offering these solutions or as you said,
flexibility in terms of paid time off, etcetera, you're not
going to attract and retain the best talent because the best
talent is going to go to a company that's offering that.
And you know, the other thing that I would just layer in here
in terms of the impact that, you know, perimenopause and
menopause have, you know, there's another stat that has
actually stuck with me, which is 79% of women have actually taken
time off because of these symptoms that I mentioned
earlier, whether it's fatigue or brain fog or anxiety, etcetera.
But very few of them are actually comfortable declaring,
hey, I'm, I'm taking off because of my perimenopause symptoms,
right? Which is, you know, I can't say
I'm. Surprised.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, people are. Concealing it, which also
continues to contribute to that anxiety.
So again, part of why I'm passionate about this is let's
have a conversation and normalize it so that more
employees are comfortable talking about it, more employers
see the value of adding these solutions.
So as you and I have both said, they can attract, they can
retain the best talent. And if people are bringing their
best selves, that is 100% going to contribute to the company's
financial objectives as well as their mission and purpose.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
I always like to say that if if companies only focus on their
employees fulfillment and satisfaction, everything else
falls into place 100%. And it's just, it's just like
the natural way of life, right. Yeah.
Like if, if a company is only focused on their, you know, what
the employee is driving versus what drives the employee, then
you're just, you know, you're not going to get that much from
your team. And I think it's a really
important take away probably frankly, from every episode on
my podcast that, you know, the, the best thing that we can do is
help leaders, other leaders to, and even ourselves to understand
how much of an impact fulfillment and satisfaction at
the individual level has on a company output and customer
satisfaction. And it just completely trickles
down And just to pivot just ever so slightly.
I'm, I'm curious with the companies that you've worked
with, even in your advisor work, where what is a good place?
Like if someone today is listening and they're really
inspired by this and they're like, you know what, my company
doesn't offer anything, but I want to bring this to the table.
What's one of the first things that they can do to make an
incremental impact on offering some some new or advanced
benefits for for their teams? Yeah, so.
You know the first thing I I would suggest is have them talk
to their current provider of benefits, right?
So if one of my clients is listening to this podcast right
now, come talk to me, come talk to my client management team
because we can talk to you about all of the solutions that we are
making available. So, you know, I'll give a little
bit of insight into some of the product expansion that we've
just recently done, which I'm incredibly proud of.
So we are collaborating with Carrot Fertility, who is an
expert in this whole hormonal health journey and we are
offering these solutions as part of our benefit packages to the
clients and customers that we serve.
So employers should talk to their their brokers and
producers, they should talk to their current insurance
carriers. And if their carriers are not
offering these solutions, I would argue they should find a
new one. There you go.
I agree. You heard it here first,
everybody. It's, I mean, this is like the
power of consumerism, right? We can, we can ultimately have a
huge influence just in choosing who we procure our benefits
from, you know, whatever it is that we're getting from, you
know, all of the vendors that we work with every single day.
So I love that. And Wendy, I, I can only say
thank you so many times until you're tired of hearing me.
But thank you hearing me say this, but thank you so much for
joining, joining my podcast and for for sharing all of your own
experiences and insights and, and really in a way, being very
vulnerable with me and the audience because I think it it
is what helps to destigmatize topics that have otherwise been
highly stigmatized. And so with that, I would love
to invite you to share where the listeners can connect with you,
learn more about Cigna, learn more about how they can offer
these types of benefits at their own companies and, and just
learn more in general. Yeah, so obviously actually.
If folks want to learn more about our offerings, they should
look at cignahealthcare.com. And if they're interested, we
have offerings both on our US domestic side as well as the
business that I lead on the global health benefits side.
So there's lots of information that folks can find out on our
websites and you know, as I mentioned a moment ago, you
know, we're connected with so many brokers and employers, so
folks should definitely connect in with with those individuals
as well. Amazing.
Well, Wendy, thank you again so much and I'd love to have you
back on the show if anything in this landscape changes or
becomes even more exciting to talk about in the future.
You're always welcome back and really appreciate your time.
This has been an. Awesome conversation and an
awesome opportunity. Like I said, I never thought
five years ago this is what I'd be talking about, but I love it
and it's so important now and now.
Imagine what the next five years will look like exactly.
Very exciting. Hey, just before you go, don't
forget to subscribe to the show so that you are the first to
hear when an episode drops each week and maybe leave a five star
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Plus, if you have someone in mind who would really enjoy this
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Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you next week.