1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 Welcome to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,800 podcast. I'm Tracy Chernhoff, and I've 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,240 spent my entire professional career in HR. 4 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,840 Each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,840 and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create 6 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,720 meaningful outcomes. Listen in as I share my own 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,560 experiences, challenge the status quo, and chat with guests 8 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,600 from various industries about our mission to bring the human 9 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,600 back to human. Resources Hi everyone. 10 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,960 Welcome back to Bringing the Human back to Human Resources, 11 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,560 the podcast where hopefully you're getting a ton of useful 12 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,280 information, maybe sharing in a few laughs or I don't know, just 13 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,840 relating to whatever it is that we're talking about every week. 14 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,680 This week I have Stephen Flanagan on with me and he has 15 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,440 spent the last decade in learning and development. 16 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,680 Though his first leadership training training was not in a 17 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,560 boardroom. At 22 while running a $5,000,000 18 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,320 restaurant in downtown Toronto on a lean budget, which I think 19 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,920 we can all probably relate to, he built his first supervisor 20 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,520 program on the fly with his crew of servers. 21 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,640 Late nights coffee and Donuts became the classroom and real 22 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,760 time practice on the floor became the method. 23 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,440 That's where he discovered the real magic of leadership 24 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,560 development, which is simple habits built and reinforced in 25 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,840 action. He went on to hold corporate HR 26 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,560 rules and high growth mid sized organizations where he saw first 27 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,080 hand how strategy often stalls at the mid layer. 28 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,560 Today he leads Sikhs Consulting, a firm dedicated to helping lean 29 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,600 fast growing companies scale leadership by turning mid level 30 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,480 managers into execution ready leaders who coach, deliver and 31 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:33,760 move strategy. Forward. 32 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,520 Stevens approach is simple and sustainable. 33 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,360 Build habits tied directly to company goals so learning sticks 34 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,560 and strategy doesn't stall. Through his flagship program, 35 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,120 The Performance Booster, he has helped hundreds of leaders 36 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,760 across industries Dr. Measurable business impact, uncover new 37 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,480 revenue and accelerate both personal and professional 38 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,360 growth. Steven, thank you for being 39 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:56,520 here. I'm so excited. 40 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,120 I'm so glad to be here. And Tracy, you absolutely nailed 41 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:01,560 that intro. It's like, I don't even, we 42 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,680 don't even need to record. Thank you for that. 43 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:05,400 That's it. Thank you everybody. 44 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,600 Have a great week. Bye. 45 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,560 That's the podcast. See you later, Reach out to 46 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:12,080 Steven. LinkedIn isn't. 47 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:13,840 Isn't the. Show notes. 48 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,200 I love that. Fastest podcast ever. 49 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:19,840 It was 2 minutes. I like it. 50 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,320 You know what? The listeners would probably 51 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,960 appreciate it too because they're like Tracy Babbles. 52 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,960 Hopefully they don't feel that way, but you know, maybe maybe 53 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,920 if you do see, I'm sure I'll get a couple comments like, yeah, 54 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:35,840 you do Babble or no, you don't keep talking, which would be, 55 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:37,440 you know, great Pat on the back for me. 56 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,080 No, but Steven, thank you so much for being here. 57 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:45,120 And I know, you know, just in reading your bio and kind of 58 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,240 reflecting on this, your experience, obviously having 59 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,160 been an HR leader in, in organizations before and now 60 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,920 having your own consulting firm. You know, I'm, I'm curious like 61 00:02:56,920 --> 00:03:01,000 how you ultimately make made that transition where you saw 62 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,240 that there was this gap or, or when it kind of dawned on you 63 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,720 that there was this gap. Such a good question and I think 64 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,360 this is a really great place to start. 65 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,920 So you mentioned in the intro that I started in hospitality 66 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:19,280 and like running this beast, this like 5-6 million dollar 67 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,800 restaurant right out of university taught me a lot. 68 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:26,000 It was the best thing for my career and also maybe the worst 69 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,640 thing for my career cuz it was hard on my like anxiety and 70 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:33,640 stuff like that. But anyway, it all started, 71 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:40,840 Tracy, when I was asked to beat my revenue targets every day at 72 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,720 this restaurant and we were right across the street from 73 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,160 where the Blue Jays play. And I know the Blue Jays just 74 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,280 had a hard loss. They played an amazing series. 75 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,160 Though only it was an amazing series. 76 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,680 To watch, I've got to say just a moment to, you know, like Game 7 77 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,320 was like one of the best games of baseball I have watched in a 78 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,520 long time. So not to interrupt you, but I 79 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,320 think they should be very proud of themselves, you know, for 80 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,600 playing quite, quite a number of games against the Dodgers in the 81 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,800 way that they did. No, absolutely. 82 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:14,400 Yeah. I, I watched the final game, 83 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,600 game seven with a bunch of my friends and we said the same 84 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,440 thing. It was, it was super impressive. 85 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:23,840 But anyway, so, so of course my heart belongs to Toronto. 86 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:26,600 I love the Jays, etcetera. And that's where I really 87 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,080 started my career, working across the street right there. 88 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:34,840 And we were serving, you know, our average guest check what we 89 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:37,480 would charge per plate was around 20 bucks and we would be 90 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,000 cranking out around 2829 K and revenue a day. 91 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,280 So lots of people high turn around at 100 staff. 92 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,200 And when I was asked like we need to increase our revenue 93 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,040 targets, you need to beat your sales. 94 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,920 I was like, well, how? Like I don't even know where to 95 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,120 start, right? And what I found to be most 96 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,600 effective was training the girls at the door, training the host 97 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,080 at the door. Every time you see the table 98 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,600 when you're walking by another table, clear plate. 99 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:15,000 Simple behavior change that over time compounded and brought us 100 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,400 in more revenue. Same thing with the servers. 101 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:23,200 When you are passing the bar, instead of walking by the 102 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,320 service station, stop and grab a beer. 103 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,960 Same concept again. It cleared the service station. 104 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,760 We got more beers out, more people were served, the tables 105 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,400 move faster. And it's this really simple 106 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,880 thing that always stuck with me because as I was moved into more 107 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,760 corporate roles and did learning and development programs and was 108 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:53,120 working with executives on navigating COVID and company 109 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,920 strategy and all that stuff. I noticed that small 110 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,920 distillation to say, here's what we want. 111 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,720 And if you can't see me on the screen, I'm making a big funnel, 112 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,520 right? And, and here's what we need is 113 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,720 really this little, little exit point that it got lost in 114 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:17,440 translation. So I decided to really learn and 115 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,080 understand habits. I, I have a really fantastic 116 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,520 coach named Chris Taylor who's taught me a lot about habits as 117 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:29,720 well. And when I started using habits 118 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,160 in my leadership programs, everything changed. 119 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,680 Everything changed. And it was about two years ago 120 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,760 where I was able to hear participants say after four 121 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,840 days, I freed up enough capacity to uncover A6 figure net new 122 00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:48,840 revenue opportunity because I practiced effective delegation 123 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:50,080 that we learned in the classroom. 124 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:55,840 And I did it incrementally. And I did it simply, you know, 125 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:59,880 it was in 30 days. Steven, I'm showing up to this 126 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,640 conversation completely differently because my stress 127 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,480 levels are so much better because over the last 30 days 128 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,840 when I sat down at my desk instead of turning on my 129 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:11,880 monitor, I made a list and I checked that list off and I got 130 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,200 more control in my day. And it's again going back to 131 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:20,960 this idea of companies want work life balance, companies want 132 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,880 well-being, companies want growth, but the people don't 133 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,920 know how to deliver it. And I feel like that's a big gap 134 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:35,320 where we as HR or executive teams best intentions and and 135 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:40,760 myself included in this best intentions distillation needs a 136 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,720 little bit of work. Right, right. 137 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,640 This is really compelling because one of the things that I 138 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,360 was thinking about as you were sharing your story was kind of 139 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:57,720 my coming into HR, which I started in store and retail. 140 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,200 So similar to you, like on the ground, right, quote UN quote on 141 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:06,080 the ground in these like massive, massive industries 142 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,880 where like it's all about the consumer and it's all about 143 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,760 their experience. And how do you just continue to 144 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,320 like elevate the expectation and the revenue? 145 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,240 Retail and hospitality have that definitely in common and the 146 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,600 competition is fierce. And so I was thinking about my 147 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,640 own experience going from, you know, like in store to, to 148 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,120 incorporate, so to speak, HR, corporate HR. 149 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:36,080 And that there, there is so much more control in some ways that 150 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,240 you have when you are like on the ground in store, in, in 151 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:45,480 restaurant and you have like, in some ways, not an easier time, 152 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,040 like setting that expectation and following up on it. 153 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,280 But it, you can feel it, you can like apply it, you can see it, 154 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,840 you can see it through. And then when you move to 155 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:58,120 corporate HR and for you and L&D and then for me and you know, 156 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,600 like business partnering, it's so much harder in some ways to 157 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:07,000 get that message across because you're not on the floor with 158 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,440 those people. You're, you have to like rely on 159 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,640 the relationships that you've established with people who 160 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,880 could be thousands of miles away from you. 161 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,240 Also depending on the organization you work for. 162 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:21,480 And it, it just puts so much more emphasis on to your point, 163 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:26,000 habits and how we like help people to understand that their 164 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,160 behaviors are actually what Dr. outcomes and it's not the other 165 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,280 way around. It's not like, oh, well, 166 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,280 customers aren't coming in. And so This is why our sales are 167 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,440 down. No, well, why aren't customers 168 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,320 coming in? Do they know your are your store 169 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,200 hours correct on Google? Like that is like such a small 170 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,160 thing, right? Like just like anything like 171 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,600 does it say you're temporarily closed still because of COVID? 172 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,840 Like that would be bad. That would that's probably bad 173 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:50,920 for business. I've seen that. 174 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,240 I've seen that recently. Right. 175 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:54,880 Me too. That's what made me think about 176 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:56,800 it. I'm like, you're open, Google 177 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,920 says you're closed. Like you're you're going to 178 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,600 default, my friend. Like what? 179 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,800 But yeah, no, I I think that all of this kind of makes a lot of 180 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,640 sense. And and then when we think, when 181 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,920 we remove ourselves, many of us are probably in, you know, more 182 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,960 corporate environments or working for small to mid size, 183 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:16,800 maybe even large sized organizations. 184 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,440 How do we get our message across? 185 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,400 How do we build on those habits? So in what you do and even with 186 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,760 the work that you, you know, highlighted from your coach or 187 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,120 maybe even others, you know, where does someone start in 188 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,320 identifying like the habits that they should have or the habits 189 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,120 that they need their teams to have? 190 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,280 Yeah. To to drive better outcomes. 191 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,240 Such a great question. So I'll start here. 192 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,240 I didn't know the answer to that, Tracy, until about, I want 193 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,600 to say 6 to 8 months ago when I started serving people on 194 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,960 LinkedIn and I said a new strategic goal is issued for 195 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,520 next year. Will a mid level leader have 196 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,400 more trouble communicating what it means to their team or 197 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,320 delivering on it themselves, A or B? 198 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:10,080 And it was this really interesting thing because I 199 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,160 wanted to understand from the people who are enabling 200 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,200 perspective, right? Like where they saw the gap 201 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,560 because I work with the HR leaders on the front line often 202 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:21,360 in my training sessions. And I'll get to that in a 203 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,960 second, But HR leaders shared that it was much harder. 204 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,440 I think it was like over 50% of the poll came back where it's 205 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,680 like this idea of translating what a goal means to their team 206 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,160 is the hardest thing. And delivery comes later. 207 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,120 When you ask the managers in the room, they're always going to 208 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,960 say delivery is harder because they're on the front lines and 209 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,880 they feel, they feel the squeeze and, and rightfully so, right. 210 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,120 And what I realized, Tracy, is it's actually this thing called 211 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:02,040 the execution gap strategy to results is cyclical. 212 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,640 It's not one or the other. It's not just one thing, it's 213 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,880 all the things. And if we can't communicate 214 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,040 correctly, that means we can't translate. 215 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,680 If the executives can't communicate the goal directly, 216 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,520 that that means that the managers can't translate it. 217 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,880 If the managers can't translate it, it means their teams can't 218 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:20,600 deliver on it. If their teams can't deliver on 219 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,200 it, that means HR has performance problems. 220 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,440 And if HR has performance problems, that means there's 221 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,280 going to be a nutrition issue. And if there's a nutrition 222 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,720 issue, that comes back to our mission vision values. 223 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:29,760 And then that's not right, right? 224 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,000 So it's, it's, it's a wheel, it's a thing. 225 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:39,120 So after I surveyed and taking my own kind of instincts and 226 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,160 understanding of what leaders struggle with on the ground, 227 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,760 I've realized this thing called the execution gap, which is 228 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:50,360 again, the gap between strategy that we set in the boardroom and 229 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,560 what happens on the floor to get us there comes down to three 230 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:59,640 things. Translation, which is how do I 231 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,880 take the goal and make it an everyday thing? 232 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,400 Communication, how do I get everyone on the same page for 233 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:13,440 what that goal is? And adoption, how do I actually 234 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:18,960 get the stuff done and adopt the behaviors needed to make the 235 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,320 organization successful against what they expect? 236 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:28,360 So to answer your question, it's usually one of those three, if 237 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,600 not all of them that leaders struggle with. 238 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:37,560 And again, it's not their fault. To your point, these are high 239 00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:44,120 growth changing companies, often small to medium size. 240 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,800 That's where I play, that's where I work, where the ball's 241 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,080 changing. People who are promoted into 242 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,160 these mid level leader roles are often doing the job that they 243 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:58,000 had because they haven't filled it, they haven't hired it yet or 244 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,400 they're still training. Plus they're needing to manage 245 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,000 up to understand what's expected now. 246 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,440 And often times, you know, God bless the executives. 247 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,080 You know, I myself run a small organization, still figuring it 248 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,040 out as we go, right. And again, that's not anyone's 249 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,880 fault, but that's a reality. So it can be a very tricky 250 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,320 thing. And you know, I, I also 251 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,360 understand from, you know, McKinsey reported, I think in 252 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,040 the last time they, the last stat I've seen was like June 20, 253 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,920 2530 percent of strategy fails to translate into results. 254 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,000 And Gartner reported more recently that it was around 40%. 255 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,960 I run a monthly workshop with HR leaders to talk about the 256 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,120 execution gap and they're saying it's more like 60%. 257 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,040 Wow. Of strategic goals don't 258 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,360 translate into results, and there was another observation 259 00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:00,400 that 90 to 100% don't translate to the expected results. 260 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,480 Wow, those are big numbers. Well, do you disagree? 261 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,640 No, I don't actually. I don't. 262 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,040 I think that I think like 20 is or 3040% is like, yeah, like 263 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,200 yeah, maybe you're getting there, but I think 60% is more 264 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,560 accurate. And that 90 to 100%, I see that 265 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:33,160 with with, I could see that happening with more goals than 266 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,400 not because of the expected outcome. 267 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,520 Like maybe you get close to the outcome, but you don't get to 268 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,600 the expected outcome. But that's 60% of like, no, 269 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,480 we're like just completely missing the mark. 270 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,480 I totally, totally see that. Yeah. 271 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,240 And, and, and I think there's a big opportunity to to shift that 272 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,120 again with this idea of habits and just to creating the clarity 273 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,880 around what's needed. And again, when we're in the 274 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,320 boardroom and we're talking about where do we want to go in 275 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,440 the next three to five years and what does that mean for right 276 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:13,680 now or for the quarter? Expand sales by 2X in Q4 within 277 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:23,320 the Midwest region feels time bound, feels specific enough, 278 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,040 but people are often where the fuck do I start with that? 279 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:33,200 Is it booking a sales call? Is it prospecting? 280 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,040 Is it follow-ups? Is it messaging right. 281 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:42,040 And then that's the rub. So right, again, we think that 282 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,480 that goal is specific and rolling that out in a town hall 283 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,000 and getting everyone fired up about it is awesome. 284 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,520 But people are still like kind of grasping at straws to 285 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,040 understand. So if we were to translate that 286 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,560 into a habit and I use this framework called when instead of 287 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:02,160 I will, which is essentially rooted in a current action you 288 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,280 take. So there's no, we're not adding 289 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,000 anything here. So when I build a habit with mid 290 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,880 level leaders, I meet them where they're at. 291 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,280 I'm, I'm not telling them to do something new, I'm telling them 292 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,920 to do something different based on what you're already doing. 293 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,040 So, and this is the framework from Michael Bungay Stanier, 294 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:19,680 who's a thought leader in this space. 295 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,960 Brilliant guy. But it's when I do a certain 296 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,200 thing and it's triggers. So when I sit down at my desk, 297 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:33,400 when I stand up to go to the washroom, right? 298 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:38,040 Like whatever, it's a trigger instead of and oftentimes I 299 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,320 would say instead of checking your e-mail because that's 300 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,600 something we do right, right at the first thing in the morning, 301 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,560 right? Or even instead of turning on my 302 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:49,960 monitor, old action, I will, and this is the desired action, 303 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:57,040 write down 1 prospect. I will reach out today or 304 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,440 instead of so if I were to say, when I sit down at my desk, 305 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,800 instead of going to my e-mail, I will go on to sales navigator. 306 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:06,320 Like that could be another one, right? 307 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,400 And it's again, it's that my James clear vibe of we're just 308 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,920 putting on the left shoe where the gym will come. 309 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:16,240 But right now we're just putting on the left shoe. 310 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:21,200 And so, so that's kind of how I approach that to, to say, OK, 311 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,720 here's the, you know, here's the goal. 312 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,400 You know, we want, you know, we want to expand the in the 313 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,960 Midwest by 2X in Q4, but it looks actually like sitting down 314 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,600 at your desk and instead of you going on your e-mail going into 315 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,840 sales navigator. Right. 316 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,520 I think that's a fabulous, fabulous example because we're 317 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,040 all probably like hearing what you're saying and thinking 318 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,720 about, OK, what is the thing that I'm doing that could be a 319 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,680 different habit or that I could do that I could take and 320 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,600 transform into reaching my goals more quickly. 321 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,120 Like even for me as a business owner, for you as a business 322 00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:58,080 owner, like they're probably things that every quarter, every 323 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,000 year that we're thinking like I want more of this or I want to 324 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,640 increase revenue by this much. How do I do that? 325 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,000 And so in in the work that you're doing and what you've 326 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,080 just shared with us, you're helping us to see these 327 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,320 organizations, especially, you know, small to mid size where 328 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,040 there is that gap and it happens every day. 329 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,280 I can even think about like probably 1,000,001 examples 330 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,520 right now where, you know, you have the executive team saying 331 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,200 this is what we're striving for, and then you have those who are 332 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,880 going and executing on that outcome not having any clue as 333 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,240 to how to get there. To your point, like, what does 334 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,440 that actually mean? And I like that you're talking 335 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,400 about changing behaviors or looking at habits as a way to do 336 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,800 that, You know, kind of going back to the inception of your 337 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:50,520 own career, that it's these small incremental behavior 338 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:55,160 changes or movements that help us to get to that outcome, that 339 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,000 desired outcome. If I even like take it to 340 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,040 retail, it's like, OK, well, if we're, you know, if a retailer 341 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,160 is saying that they want to increase their, their basket 342 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,880 size by I don't know 10% or something like that. 343 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,520 That they then have to think about are there end caps full do 344 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,560 there do there are there registers open for them to 345 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,600 actually like process people who are waiting in line? 346 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,160 I mean, I go to stores all the time now and it's like mostly 347 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,840 just self checkout. If I think about these like self 348 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,840 checkout moments and you see how many packs of gum are empty and 349 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,320 how there is a cooler full of drinks, right. 350 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:38,280 If your, if your goal is to maximize basket size, then you 351 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,280 have to make sure that there are things in place like who is that 352 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,600 person that's going to fill those end caps, that's going to 353 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,120 fill those, those lanes? And so whatever example we want 354 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:50,880 to use, even if we look at like, I don't know, like a, a, a 355 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,040 different type of retailer or luxury or whatever, there has 356 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,680 those moments where we take the message, to your point, the 357 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,840 message that the executive team is, is disseminating and then 358 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,520 like putting it into this like real life tangible experience. 359 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,440 There has to be that to your point, translation or 360 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,360 communication in order for the adoption. 361 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:17,480 And something that I often say is that when the further removed 362 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,560 we get from like the frontline employee, the harder it is to 363 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,440 actually think about or realize what that experience is like. 364 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,280 And I always say that we have to meet people where they are. 365 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:34,200 We have to really figure out how we take this higher level like, 366 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,600 OK, this is our goal and make it mean something for the person 367 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:43,240 unloading a truck or cleaning or bussing a table or I don't know, 368 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,160 delivering newspapers everyday, right, Whatever that might be. 369 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,280 And and that is sometimes I think a big miss for leaders at 370 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,200 the executive level and and maybe even below the executive 371 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:54,960 level too. I think mid managers, certainly 372 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,560 this is a key population that you focus on. 373 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,680 They have an opportunity also to to your point to manage up and 374 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,960 say, hey, this is what these people experience every day. 375 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,960 And then also to make it relevant for the people at the 376 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,240 front line based on what that that outcome goal is. 377 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:13,920 I'm really glad you bring that up. 378 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,080 And the entire time you were talking in my head, I'm like, 379 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,320 This is why the mid layer is so critical and This is why I focus 380 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,960 there, right? Like I, I actually played with 381 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,080 the idea of working exclusively, exclusively with executive 382 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,080 teams. And at one of my clients, it was 383 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,320 a bigger client. So I did have a couple different 384 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,520 streams of leadership development and I, I worked with 385 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,800 individual contributors as well, which I loved. 386 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:38,800 I loved every single and if anyone at soft choice is 387 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,560 listening to this, I love everyone and building leaders so 388 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,640 much. But it is true. 389 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,520 The mid level it's it's critical because they are that 390 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,360 translations, that translation piece, right? 391 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:55,800 And they they are often, I would say as well, to your point, 392 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,400 Tracy, because they're a little bit closer to the ground. 393 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,040 Usually the group that has been there the longest and has the 394 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,920 highest level of respect across the across the organization 395 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,920 because the executives love them because they're loyal and they, 396 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,160 they've proven themselves. And you know, if we're talking 397 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,480 about a midsize company, they may have started as an intern or 398 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,760 an associate and they're now a director, right? 399 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,480 And if we're talking about the new hires, they've probably been 400 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,080 hired by Joe when Joe is a manager and now Joe is a 401 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,760 director and Cindy, who Joe hired is now a manager, right? 402 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,720 And it's like the, the, what I'm trying to say is the mid level 403 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,360 leaders have the respect and it's so, and I feel very 404 00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:45,000 passionately about the fact that a lot of them are stretched too 405 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,880 thin. And again, that's not, I'm not, 406 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:53,000 I'm not pointing blame at anyone or it's, it's just a business 407 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,480 reality. But there's a way we can 408 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,960 overcome that. And it it is about, you know, 409 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,800 figuring out what behaviors are needed to actually get the 410 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,040 organization where it needs to go in a way that makes people 411 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,840 feel sane. Right. 412 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,040 Yeah. And I think another cool thing 413 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:17,280 about habits that I've learned is when adopted meaningfully. 414 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:26,120 And I will say that I, anyone who takes my program has a 75 to 415 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,720 85% adoption rate with the habits that they practice. 416 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,360 So that means that they're actively participating and, and 417 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:36,320 actively practicing it every day. 418 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,760 And it's sticking. That's what adoption rate means. 419 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,600 They start to see the habit that they practice at work translate 420 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,040 into their personal life. And that is another reason why I 421 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,880 find this work so meaningful. I can give you an example. 422 00:24:52,520 --> 00:25:00,480 So I very recently just engaged an architecture firm with a 30 423 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,560 day habit Sprint. And part of one of the habits 424 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,160 that a group of people practiced was around ownership. 425 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,560 And it was when I sit down at my desk, instead of turning on my 426 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,200 monitor, I will write down three things I can do in under 5 427 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,880 minutes to help move my priorities forward. 428 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,960 And I'll, I'll, I'll say that, I'll say that again. 429 00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:24,440 When I sit down at my desk instead of turning on my 430 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,440 monitor, I will write down three things I can do in under 5 431 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,240 minutes to move my priorities forward. 432 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,760 And before I talk about the outcome, I'll pause and just say 433 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,960 why that is so important. Because oftentimes when we build 434 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,520 habits, especially coming out of training sessions, we are 435 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,520 absolutely full of piss and vinegar and want to make a list 436 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,320 of 15 things that we can do before 9:00 AM. 437 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,000 And it just, it's not going to happen, right? 438 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,840 And it goes back to that, James Clear, put your left shoe on 439 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,920 before you go to the gym. The same thing with habits and 440 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,360 again, if someone were to, if someone was listening to this 441 00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:03,320 and looking to implement habits and their organization, first, 442 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,880 call me, I'm available to talk to you about it and and support 443 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,720 you with it. But second of all, make sure 444 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,360 it's easy for people like very, very distilled down like that 445 00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:15,480 sales navigator example as well. Just getting on the platform. 446 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,040 Anyway, so I digress. So this person practice the 447 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,720 habit of sitting down at their desk and making A to do list of 448 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,080 three things. And he said to me, Steven, after 449 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,120 30 days and my habit sprints are usually 30 days. 450 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:34,120 James Cleric says it takes up to 60 to have, you know, a 451 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:36,920 behaviour turn into an automatic thing. 452 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,920 But we've seen anywhere over 21 days for the habit to start to 453 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:43,280 stick. So I do 30. 454 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,800 But anyway, after 30 days, Steven, of making this list and 455 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,480 checking it twice, I've shown up to less stressed. 456 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:57,920 I am running like, you know, huge important architectural 457 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,640 projects that involve lots of different pieces, construction, 458 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,520 design, etcetera. And it's high stress and I'm 459 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,320 able to manage it better because of this list. 460 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,600 And then he said to me on top of it all, I have a 5 month old at 461 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,800 home and because of my list building abilities, I'm able to 462 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,320 put my 5 month old down for a nap and bang out double the 463 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,720 amount of stuff that I was able to do before. 464 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,920 And it's helped me significantly be more present with my kid and 465 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,400 also my wife. My wife's not complaining and I 466 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:30,200 was. Kind of like. 467 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,000 And I was no, and I'm like, that is fucking awesome that that is 468 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,440 the point of this work. And another example was with 469 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,640 eliminating distractions. Another group that I worked 470 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:53,360 with, they practiced when I'm in a meeting and and I get an IM, 471 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,480 instead of opening it I will pause and ask myself if the I AM 472 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:04,080 is worth it. Oh, I could totally adopt that 473 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,880 one. Yeah, I probably should. 474 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,680 It's brilliant. And after they were practicing 475 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:15,080 it for about 10 days, one of the young men in the group brought 476 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,560 it home and he only had an hour or two with his son every night. 477 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,520 And he was getting pings from AVP and he didn't answer them. 478 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:27,000 He at he used to have it and he was like, I was able to spend 479 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,880 the time with my son and to get back to the VP because when I 480 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,400 put him down for bed, I just got to the IMS. Then it and, and, 481 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:40,200 and again, it's, it's when we're in these high growth, mid size 482 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,480 environments and we're in a mid level leader role where 483 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:48,600 everything is on our shoulders. We have this pressure, this 484 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:54,520 really hard pressure to just attack everything as it comes. 485 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,080 But if we're able to build these sustainable habits, especially 486 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,480 when we're able to build and pause, which is another thing 487 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:07,560 that I love to do with my habits as well, we can do more and we 488 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,480 can do things differently because it just allows us that 5 489 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,120 seconds to think, is this now or is this later, right? 490 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,240 Yeah, I think that's fabulous. I mean, there's so many Nuggets 491 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,760 of wisdom in this episode. I think, you know, even when I 492 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:30,400 think about being a mom myself and how I can totally relate to 493 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,760 that one person in your example that, you know, you're getting 494 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,400 pings that really feel very urgent. 495 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,040 Emails, pings, whatever calls, texts, could be anything. 496 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,360 And how you prioritize what you want to be present for. 497 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,120 Same at work, by the way, whether you're present at work, 498 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,680 present in your personal life, it really makes a lot of sense 499 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:54,160 that, you know, you part of creating habits can also be 500 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,360 creating boundaries and then, you know, establishing those 501 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,800 things as habits and, and really it's totally translatable to 502 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:02,600 anything. I think. 503 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:07,840 So Steven, this has been like super fun and insightful and I 504 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,320 am feeling really inspired to think about the my own 505 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,920 interactions with my own, like work and personal life and what 506 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,640 habits I might want to to create, Especially like, you 507 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,920 know, we're recording when we're going into a new year. 508 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,000 So maybe it's a maybe it's a good time for it, even though 509 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,680 this episode will come out after the new year has begun. 510 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,120 But it's never too late to create some good habits. 511 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,880 But if, if someone listening is equally as inspired as I am, if 512 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,840 not more, where can they reach out? 513 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,400 Where can they learn more about you and maybe even bring your 514 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,120 your fabulous practices to their own organizations? 515 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,960 Yeah, absolutely. I'm, as you can tell, very 516 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,800 friendly guy. I love to connect with everyone. 517 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:53,040 So find me on LinkedIn and I think Tracy, you'll provide my 518 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,280 LinkedIn in the bio or information of this podcast. 519 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,920 Find me on LinkedIn, Shoot me a message or, you know, keep an 520 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,840 eye out for any of my posts and drop me a comment or, or 521 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,680 anything like that. And, and I'll be sure to get 522 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,320 back to you. LinkedIn is the best place to 523 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,280 find me. And outside of that, if anyone 524 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,600 is looking to practice habits going into to the new year, even 525 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:20,000 if this comes out after start on a Monday, start laughably small. 526 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,440 Keep it simple and use something. 527 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,560 Start it with a trigger based thing based on what you're 528 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,200 already doing, like sitting down, standing up, checking your 529 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,160 e-mail, etcetera. Amazing. 530 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,440 Steven, this is fabulous. And yes, you're totally right. 531 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,280 We will have everything linked so that it's easy for everyone 532 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,240 to to get connected with you. And this has been so awesome. 533 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:45,440 So thank you so much for your time. 534 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:47,200 My pleasure. Hey. 535 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,760 Just before you go, don't forget to subscribe to the. 536 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,840 Show so that. You are the first to hear when 537 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,600 an episode drops each week and maybe leave a five star review 538 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,760 and a comment about how much you loved this episode. 539 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,560 Plus, if you have someone in mind who would really enjoy this 540 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,200 episode, make sure you share it with them. 541 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,120 Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you next week.