Welcome to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources
podcast. I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've
spent my entire professional career in HR.
Each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people
and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create
meaningful outcomes. Listen in as I share my own
experiences, challenge the status quo, and chat with guests
from various industries about our mission to bring the human
back to human resources. Hi everyone, welcome back to the
Bringing the Human Back to human Resources podcast.
Thank you so much for being here for another week.
Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe.
And if you did forget, well, I just reminded you, so you're
welcome. This week, I have Brett Hogavine
with me. He is on a mission to make the
world a better place to work. And I think we can all get
behind that. I don't we all want work to be
just amazing. I yeah right, like I want it to
be amazing. He is the Co founder of Better
Culture, a prominent leadership development and technology firm
with clients spanning from entrepreneurial startups to
Fortune 500 companies. A former healthcare executive,
retired engineer and startup investor, Brett helps
organizations build stronger leaders and engage every
employee. Brett travels nationally as a
speaker and a consultant with a single focus, providing
practical, actionable advice to help organizations build
dominantly successful cultures. As Brett and his growing list of
clients are keenly aware, a better culture means a Better
Business. I could not have said it myself.
That is literally what I scream out into the ether.
Brett, thank you. I love it.
All right. Yes, I'm glad.
Thank you. Thanks for having me of.
Course, I'm so glad you're here. I mean, I think this concept of
just simply putting it as, you know, a better culture equals a
better company and we can obviously deduct from that that
there is then you know, when you have a better culture, you have
more engaged employees, they're more fulfilled, they have better
tenure, all of the good things that come from that.
So where did this passion of yours, where did this, you know,
this focus on helping companies and people leaders to drive
better cultures? Where did that start?
Well, as you heard in my intro, I've I've been in a couple
different industries and that's partly because I was a numbers
person naturally. I went to school for engineering
always like math and science, and I never I wasn't originally
I had no, it wasn't on my radar at all.
Anything related to culture. I was just interested in stuff.
I was interested in career paths.
But when I got into the professional world, it hit me
like a ton of bricks that like, oh, the work that I do everyday,
the people I work with everyday, that has a really big impact on
my life, on my satisfaction, on, you know, my, my energy level,
on my enjoyment, on my etcetera. And I sort of thought to myself,
OK, how many years am I going to spend doing this in, in the
professional world? And I, I ended up flipping my
perspective quite a bit from thinking it really mattered what
I did, you know, what my job was, what my profession was,
what my career was. And I realized that's not
actually what was most important to me.
What was much more important to me was who I worked with, the
type of company that I worked for.
There's a lot of different things that talented
professionals could choose to do, but your life will have a
lot more meaning if you do it for a company that you enjoy
working for and for people that you like working with.
And that's kind of what culture is.
It is. I think, you know, what's
interesting about what you're saying is that kind of
reflecting on this idea that this is this is fundamentally,
fundamentally what culture is. We so often, I think
overcomplicate culture. We've created the culture has
become this word that for some people is a negative thing.
And for some people it's like, I love culture.
Woo. Yeah.
Drive it. But it's become almost like this
iceberg where we, you know, we scratch the surface.
We're like, hey, yeah, we want people to, you know, be happy.
And we're gonna pay them well and they're gonna stay.
And it's like this very basic level of what, you know, they
like good pay, for example, is really just a survival need.
Like is that really, you know, that's that's a basic need that
it is obviously a contributing factor to culture, but not
necessarily everything. And so I say that as an example
because again, this iceberg thought to me is that with with
culture being this like heavy-handed word or something
that we've created to be that way.
There's so much under the surface and a lot of companies,
I think really struggle to figure out what that is.
And at the same time, as much as I say that and believe that, I
also think that we do overcomplicate it and we make it
a, a bit of a of a, an enigma rather than just saying, OK,
when people, you know, feel supported, when they feel that
they have this, you know, opportunity to develop and grow,
when they like who they're around, That's that's what makes
culture culture. Yeah, So that OK, I'm gonna
stick with your iceberg analogy, OK.
And I've not done this before, so bear with me, but I think
you're right. I think where the skepticism and
where some of the cynicism comes from around culture or the
exhaustion or, or, or people that are more seriously business
minded think that it's just fluff, etcetera is when we talk
about culture as the part of the iceberg that you can see above
the water, right? The things that are, you know,
it's, it's the, it's all that. I don't want to say all the
stereotypical stuff, you know, it's the foosballs and the
napping pods and the, you know, flexible, you know, whatever the
stuff that you can see very visibly.
That's not what culture is. What culture is, is how people
feel about their job. It's about the attitudes and the
behaviors that people that that people show up with, right?
And that stuff is relatively invisible.
And so when people talk about culture and they and they treat
it as if it's perks and benefits, like that's not
culture at all. Culture is how loyal are people?
How deep are relationships? How much do people want to show
up and do work for your company, Right?
That's engagement is a much closer word to what we're
talking about there. But it is frustrating when some
people do think culture is just an expense.
It's something that you're, you're paying for perks or
benefits that people, some people use, some people don't.
That's really not what culture is at all.
Culture doesn't cost you money. Culture makes you money.
Yes, Oh, I love that. That's the sound bite.
Everybody. Culture doesn't cost you money.
It makes you money. I love it.
I and you know what, in so few words, that packs a punch
because what I again, I like what I scream into the ether.
And I think it's probably just like, you know, a a black hole
at this point that I'm screaming into.
It's like if we just focus on people and we don't think about
anything else. We think about how do we help
our people to be the most satisfied, the most fulfilled,
the happiest that they can be? Because I've, I've kind of moved
away a little bit from the term engagement because it's kind of
like culture. It's like, what does that
actually mean? But fulfillment and satisfaction
and happiness, those are we can understand exactly what that
feels like. So it's like, if we, if we focus
on that, then actually you're not going to have to worry about
your customer satisfaction because they're going to be very
satisfied because you're people who are speaking with your
customers, who are helping them navigate ups and downs of
whatever it is that that your business might support.
They're going to have the satisfaction that they need
because the people helping them are happy to be there and happy
to help. And I, this is something that in
my retail life was like the thing that everyone talked about
that like, don't worry about everything else.
If you focus on your people, everything else will fall into
place. You're going to make money,
you're going to drive your KPIs, the business is going to do
well. And it's it to me, it feels very
intrinsic. And then I see in other
businesses or I talk to other people and they're like, you
know, I can't figure out what it is like our people are not
happy. Our business is suffering and
it's like there has to be an easier way to help everyone see
that. That's the key.
Yeah, well, I'm on a mission to do that, but it is not easy,
right? It's not easy.
I'm in the I'm in the engagement survey business.
So better culture. We do culture surveys and we
don't even use the word engagement.
I agree with you. We call them culture surveys.
And I'll tell you the types of things that if, if you want to
get a feel for where your culture is, you want to be
asking questions about how proud are people of where they work?
Like a measure of pride. Like that's a great thing to try
to measure even more it it's tied to that concept of
engagement, I suppose. But how appreciated do people
feel? Do people feel like the
organization cares about them and their success?
So if, if you can go in those types of directions and, and so
my, what I always do with organizations is I then say, so
what's your strategy to help your employees feel more proud?
What's your strategy to make sure people feel more
appreciated? What's your strategy to make
sure that people know that the company's invested in their
success? And if you can't lay out a few
things that you're doing to improve those things, then
you're just letting your culture evolve by happenstance.
You don't really understand what culture is.
If you say, yeah, well, we're trying to tweak our benefits so
that we have a better culture, it's like that's not gonna get
you a better culture. Right, two totally different
schools of thought. I mean, it's, it is interesting
going back to the iceberg analogy that perks and benefits
are kind of sometimes the first things that are referenced when
it comes to culture. And obviously you see this a
lot. I also think that generally
speaking, people will bring up, you know, opportunities for
growth or recognition and appreciation, which obviously
play a big role. But I think sometimes where, and
I've even seen this in organizations that I've worked
with that there's this cart before the horse approach where
it's like, OK, well, if we, if we throw some money at this and
we give people recognition awards or we throw some money at
this and we promote these people more, that that will solve
whatever fulfillment, satisfaction, happiness,
engagement issue there might be. And in reality, that's still
kind of like a Band-Aid approach to whatever might actually be
the root cause of a lack of fulfillment and satisfaction at
the organizational level, really at the individual level.
So I'm curious from from your perspective with better culture
or even from, from clients that you've worked with, how do you
help leaders who really do struggle to understand root
causing culture deficits? Like where?
How do you how do you get them to see a different perspective?
Or how do where do you start with them?
I think you start with strategy and you start with mindset, OK.
And I'll use the example that you just shared.
It's normal if, if employees don't feel appreciated to say,
OK, let's let's create a little bit of a budget and let's do
some, let's give some awards or let's do some recognition.
And that feels like progress. But it really is, like you said,
sort of a Band-Aid because what would really change how
employees felt about their organization is if A, leadership
decided that was an important priority strategically, and B,
they shifted their daily mindset about what it means to be a
leader, right? So if regularly in your
communication, you realize, oh, it's not part of my job to make
sure my team feels appreciated regularly, you'll see so many
opportunities to do that on a regular daily, weekly, monthly
basis. And that is, I mean, miles away
from saying, you know what, four months from now, we're going to
do a recognition event and we're going to recognize some people,
right? The amount, the way that your
employees are going to feel if their leader or leaders
throughout the organization just regularly say, oh, it's my job
to make sure people feel obscene and recognize, appreciate
regularly everyday versus you know what?
Let's, you know, it's some distant date in the future.
We're going to make sure we do some recognition.
Like those aren't close together.
And I, I hope people can understand that that are, that
are hearing this, those are, I mean, almost 180° opposite,
right? 1 is a drip in the bucket and
the other is a bucket that's full.
And but without that mindset shift of saying it's my job
regularly and daily to make sure my my team members feel
appreciated, you just, you think, well, we've checked that
box because we planned that thing three months from now.
Like you? No, you haven't checked the box
at all. Right.
And actually it will mean more if you have those incremental
daily changes and then this, you know, more maybe programmatic
approach to recognition kind of at the end of whatever, whether
it's a quarter or a year or whatever.
Because then it's like, oh, this is actually important to the
organization because my leader cares about it.
And obviously my leadership cares about it because there is
sometimes there is a a disconnect between what a leader
values, cares about, invests time in, like maybe a leader who
does do those daily incremental or has those daily and
incremental behaviors, for example, versus what a
leadership team or, you know, leadership at the organizational
level as a whole instills. And this is something like I in
even in recent conversations with, with people either that I
work with or, you know, or who are clients, there's this
element for me where it's like, OK, yes, you have to, you have
to move the entire ship. Like you do have to drive the
whole ship forward. And yet you can't actually do
that if every single person isn't doing something on their
own incrementally, whether it is those, you know, those daily
behaviors that impact people at an individual level or changing
the way that someone speaks to someone or, or how they
communicate. Those things all build for this,
you know, 1 vessel ultimately to move forward.
I'm using a lot of a lot of like marine and maritime, you know,
maritime, yes, analogies here. I don't know what it is a lot of
maritime. Thank you.
That was the word I was looking for.
So, you know, I, I, while as much as I I do think that
companies really do over complicate it, I think this part
of our conversation today around how each individual can impact
the culture is so important to actually creating better
cultures. And I think part of that too is
for leaders and maybe even just individual contributors who are
not necessarily managing A-Team, but are leaders in their own
right, depending on how they influence the organization,
should they choose to, that they feel some sort of ownership also
around driving a better culture. Absolutely, Yeah, Everybody has
a role to play, and it's not. You don't need to chase
perfection. You have to chase sort of
volume. I know that sounds weird to
people, but the organizations and the teams that make the most
progress on culture are the people that have it on in their
mind most often, you know, they're just doing something.
They're doing something to build pride, show appreciation,
develop people, deal with people who are toxic to work with, you
know, have, have coaching conversations that you don't
need to be perfect. You need to be high volume.
And if, if, if you're, if you're a manager and you're having 50
coaching conversations in a month with your team, you're
going to make way more progress than a manager that has five,
you know, And so the, and that's back to mindset, 'cause you see
the opportunity, you know, it's important and you see the
opportunity and you take it right.
And so people that realize that, that, yeah, culture will add
value to our business unit, we'll see more opportunities to,
to once they, if they have the mindset and then the skill set
to, to lean in and to do something on a regular basis.
So you don't have to be perfect, you just got to be busy.
Yeah, I like that. I like that volume.
So, you know, I know one of the things that we had talked about
offline was this idea of, you know, potentially like a bottom
up creation with driving better culture, bottom up influence, I
should say, a lot of the time I will say on my podcast, I I talk
about how culture is driven and influenced by everyone in an
organization. And yet you need to have a top
down approach in order to support anything that might be
grassroots or bottom up. But I want to hear from you.
What does that bottom up strategy or influence look like?
So we've spent a lot of time on bottom up culture building in
the last couple of years and I think it's a concept that people
really need to think about and hear about.
And, and here's all it means. OK, my best definition, I know
there's a lot of good definitions, but my best
definition for culture is the attitudes and the behaviors that
a group of people come to expect from one another.
OK, so whether you're running a whole company or you're running
a team of eight people, what I want you to say is what is your,
what do you, what do you want your culture to be?
And that would be describing the attitudes and behaviors that you
want people to show up with. How do you want them to show up
to work? How do you want them to
communicate, treat each other well?
Then if you want to have a better culture, if you want to
improve it, all you have to do is get clarity on the behaviors
you'd love to see and then do something to impact those on a
regular basis. OK, just how can you help people
show up with more of those things?
And Tracy, if you want to, we can get into an interesting
conversation here about core values and how I think,
unfortunately, most organizations are getting almost
no mileage out of their core values.
Sometimes they're behavioral, sometimes they describe an
attitude or behavior, but very seldom do I see organizations
that have any actual programming that's designed to help someone
live out those core values more robustly 6 months from from
today, right? Their their training and
development program. People aren't saying if these
core values describe the culture we want and if our goal is
improvement, continuous improvement, how can we help
John go from a, you know, from so, so on core value #3 to like
pretty good on core value #3 and if we did that, we would see
cultural progress. Does that make sense?
Yes, yes, I think it makes a ton of sense because companies spend
so much energy creating and sharing their mission and
values, and then there's hardly a link a lot of the time in
terms of how they're driving something forward.
Like how do we have to connect it back?
Yeah. So we went on a mission a few
years ago even with our best clients, we do leadership work.
We, we had only got, had a chance to work with the top
1015, maybe 20% of of their employees through our leadership
training. And, and we were relying
completely on then leaders that we had worked with to build the
culture with the other 8085% of the employee base.
And we said, I wonder if there's something we could build at
better culture where we could impact the rest of the employees
directly. And so we asked ourselves
essentially, what's a universal star employee look like?
What is a universal set of core values across all of our clients
best practices research? And we ended up with a list of
20 attitudes and behaviors that we now call our 20 tenets of
culture. And those 20 things are
correlated to, of course, cultural excellence, like to
high performing cultures, to healthy teams.
But the interesting thing is if people will do more of these 20
tenants, they'll they'll live these values better, they will
be more successful and happy personally.
And so we've taken that out into the marketplace and we've said,
look, companies should be investing in their people to
build healthier teams and cultures, but also to help their
people be more successful and happy.
And there's a big win win here if we can help people.
Live more of these attitudes and behaviors that are good for the
company and good for them. Wow, I love that.
So out of curiosity then when when you share this approach and
this like basically this tool kit with leaders, especially who
are, you know, maybe a little bit more skeptical of culture
and maybe you're not exactly the ones driving it forward
everyday. How do you, how does it resonate
with them, with maybe the people who are more laggards in terms
of how they adopt new ideas? So I, I told you I'm a math guy,
I'm a numbers guy. I and I like, I'm, I'm also a
skeptic. So I like skeptical people.
And our very first tenant, OK, out of these 20 and I'll, I'll
list a few of them if you'd like, but the very first one
says be coachable. OK, be coachable.
And even the most skeptical person, you can't argue with me
that if you have someone who is seeking new information, who
wants feedback, who's who's asking good questions, who wants
to learn and grow, that person over time is much more likely to
be a high quality employee and to be a successful, happy
person, right? And take this out of the work
world, like if you, let's say you're into health and fitness,
if you're coachable, you're likely to be healthier and more
fit, right? Or if you just, yeah, you know,
I think I know what's right. And I don't ever read a book or
listen to anybody like you're not going to be.
But if you, if you get a coach, if you get a fitness instructor,
like you're going to learn and grow, right?
And it's, it's the, it's the reason most of our clients, when
they're hiring, the number one thing people are looking for is
people that are open to new ideas, new growth or coachable,
right? And so we start with that and I
tell people like, we're not talking about fluffy stuff here.
This is if, if you can get people to be more coachable,
your team will be more effective, managers will be able
to give better feedback because people will hear it, The
organization will learn and grow, right?
So these are not complicated topics.
They're simple things. But the question is, do
employees have a growth plan that's going to help them be
better in any of these areas? Right.
That's so compelling because it's different from being open
in my mind, because being open, it's like, OK, well, I'm open,
I'm willing to to listen. But being coachable is like, not
only are you willing to listen and actually hear what's being
said, but you're actually willing to make changes.
And that I think is sometimes the hardest part of changing
anything is finding the willingness or the openness of
the coach ability from someone to actively and effectively make
those changes. And it's, it's just, it is
really in my mind pretty profound actually, because I
think when when organizations do struggle with culture, there is
often a lack of coach ability. And a lot of the times it's at
the leadership level and a lot of the times it's outside of the
leadership level because there's effectively, you know, something
in the water within an organization where it's OK to
say, oh, culture is someone else's problem.
Whereas when you have someone who is more coachable, they,
there's a shared ownership, there's a sense of
accountability, there's Oh yeah, well, maybe I don't have to
change, but maybe there's something that I will need to
change or evolve on over time. And I, I think that there is
there that that really resonates with me.
A lot It's a mindset shift to say that no, you not only should
might, you need to change, you should want to change, right,
But like it's a growth for the better.
It's yes, yes, people who are coachable are more successful.
So get coachable. Like, you know, like this isn't
an arguable thing. It's not it's it's simple,
right? You want to be a better golfer.
Well, you can either go swing the club the same every day or
you can get some lessons and get better.
You know this isn't a rocket science.
B Coach No, totally. You'll get better.
I love that. I recently said to a former
colleague that, you know, the the definition of insanity is
doing the same thing over and over again, expecting the same,
a different result. And when I think about what
you've just said, it's like it's another way of saying that, that
when you say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm doing the same things over and over again.
Something's not working. Maybe I should try something
new. Maybe I should be open to a
different, you know, possibility.
And I'm curious if you if in those twenty tenants of culture,
if there's anything around how anything around like respect and
communication and or even maybe accountability, whether it's
like personal accountability or team accountability.
So these are all personal characteristics, right?
And I'll, I'll list off some of them and you can tell me if one
of these sounds interesting. OK, I'm just going to go
straight down the list. But before I do this, I want you
to understand the goal here is imagine if on your team people
were self aware enough to sort of rate themselves on how they
are on these things and then pick a couple that they want to
work on because it'd be good for them.
OK, so that's just what building a better culture looks like is
clarity on where, what the attitudes and behaviors we'd
like to see and then doing something about it, working on
it, getting better, right? That's how you improve.
So tenant #2 is just simply be helpful, like proactively
helpful. Volunteer your time, jump in,
help colleagues, be open to pitching in #3 is a big one.
It's assume positive intent just like.
Love that. Don't, don't jump to
conclusions. Don't.
I mean, so much drama gets spun up because people can't assume
positive intent. They assume the worst, right?
And this effects our mood. It affects team dynamics, it
affects our mental health. You know, like someone cuts you
off in traffic. You can assume whatever you
want, but I'm telling you, you'd be better off to assume they're
in a hurry and just back up and say, yeah, must have somewhere
to be. Just assume positive intent.
It's good for you and it's good for the system.
It's good for the ecosystem. It really is.
And so it's stuff like that, you know, know how to have friendly
friction and disagreement, be welcoming, be upbeat, be
forgiving, OK. These are just like basic core
human competencies, honestly. And they're just as helpful to
for you to be a good neighbor as they are for you to be a good
employee. You know, they're universal.
Yeah. Yeah, I love that.
And like I said, I totally subscribe to the assuming
positive intent. My, one of my bosses in the past
would always say API assume positive intent.
And I really love it because, you know, in HR land, we'll say
like, seek to understand, seek to understand.
But actually assuming positive intent is exactly what that is
like when you seek to understand, you're trying to
figure out without making assumptions what that other
person was doing, thinking or feeling.
And when we say assume positive intent, it's such a, it's a,
such a direct way of saying like, Hey, drop, drop your own
ego, your own emotions and, and put the, the best case scenario
forward, the best opportunity for that person to maybe just
have a reasonable excuse or explanation for why something
might have happened in whatever way.
So I, I love that. And I can only imagine that with
scratching the surface there. Oh my gosh, iceberg analogy
again. Here it comes scratching the
surface there that there's so much more that people can relate
to. And I wonder do do organizations
that you work with, do they use this multi tenant like this 20
tenant tenants of culture approach to also maybe decide if
people are right for their organization?
Like do they do they see it as a tool for also identifying if
that if there are people who are not focused on the future state?
Some do, yeah. You know, some organizations go
so far as to to work these into their evaluations, their hiring
processes, you know, to say, look, if we had an employee that
showed up and did these things, could they is would it be
possible? It like if they knew that if
they had some technical skill, would it even be possible that
they would be not a great fit? And usually they say, not
really. I mean, it's a pretty good
definition of a star. If you're interested.
I'd, I'd like, I'd, I'd love to paint the picture for how
organizations can use this as a more robust tool.
Because there's the, there's the philosophical side of it, but
we've also tried to build some, some framework to make it really
easy for organizations that wanna build healthier cultures.
Yeah, please indulge us. So we started with the
philosophy and we came up with these 20 and we tried to make it
fewer, but we just couldn't. There's so many good ones that
we said we got to keep all 20. And we, we showed them to
organizations that are best places to work, fantastic
cultures. We said, help us validate these
like this, This is a star for you, right?
And they said, yeah, we love these, We love these.
How do you, what do you do with it?
And so then we asked ourselves back to that question of what
does it mean to actually shape culture to help people
continuously improve in at an organization?
And so we build a software product around these that starts
with every. And this is the easiest.
If you're a company that wants to be doing something with
culture, but you don't have time or a lot of budget, like this is
the easiest solution I've seen. And all you do is you, you put
your employees on a platform, they all get to do a
self-assessment. The messaging to them says, hey,
this is good. It's an investment the company's
making in you because these things are they're, they're not
just culture. It's like you'll be more
successful and happy if you do these things.
You self assess. You pick two that you want to
work on. And then our software over the
course of a whole campaign year gives everyone in the company
coaching videos, team conversations, exercises on a
regular cadence throughout the year.
We surface automatic culture conversations across all 20 and
the people that pick the two they want to work on, they get
extra quarterly nudges throughout the year to say, hey,
how are you doing on your two focus areas, etcetera.
And it's what we see with culture initiatives is a lot of
people want to do something, but they don't have the time that
you know, who's going to run it and how are we going to
operationalize it. And So what we've tried to do
here, Tracy is to make this bottom up culture building that
how how can a company invest in every single employee and make
it easy and make it simple. We've said huh, I think if we
identify the attitudes and behaviors that are would be at
would be the attributes of a high performing culture and then
we do something to regularly influence them that that's how
you could help make continuous progress in culture.
That's awesome. I love that.
It sounds like a really fabulous opportunity for people to think
a little bit less about what to do and in a way kind of like
outsource a little bit of this and, and have like use this as a
way to help them guide their strategy and make improvements
in their organization. So I think it sounds like really
interesting and we love a way to automate some things like
software. I mean, especially for you as a
former engineer, I'm sure that this feels really awesome.
Yeah, and you know, I tell people that like a lot of times
people say, well, I don't know if we like your 20 tens.
We we have our core values. I said great, do the same thing
with your core values. Do a self-assessment, create
coaching and development content around your core values to so
that you're trying to help people continuously evolve and
improve the way that they show up.
Right. And if you want to build all
that, do it. If you want to assume our twenty
are pretty aligned like it's already pre built so.
Right. I love that.
Well, thank you for sharing that.
I, I think for, for people listening, I'm sure based on the
outreach that I get, I'm sure that they're very interested in
learning a little bit more because I do get a lot of
outreach about, you know, toxic workplaces and what do I do with
this hostile person? How do I navigate?
And I do think sometimes the answer is to hire a company or a
team like Better Culture to help you out because.
Well, here I have a special. I have a even a better
suggestion which of course I love you to reach out and hire
me, but if you just want to learn more, I created a special
landing page just for your listeners with a.
Thank you. A free premium resource like so
all of the everything we built in 20 tenants, we took two of
them and we built, put them into our culture Kickstarter pack, we
call it. And So what this has in it is
self-assessment videos, coaching videos, team exercises, like you
can take two of these 20 tenants and do everything we've ever
built with your team for free. And so I would just encourage
people to to grab that. Can I give you the URL that we
put that? Yes, absolutely.
And we'll put it in the show notes too.
That's amazing. Great, it's just that better
culture.com/HR Tracy. And that's Tracy with an I, so.
That's right, it is Tracy with. I thank you.
I love, I love an accurate spelling moment of my name.
Thank you so much, Brett. I mean, that's awesome.
We'll definitely make sure that the listeners navigate to that
page and like take advantage of this free resource for them.
So I really, I appreciate that I, you know, it's the gift that
keeps on giving if you ask me. And I think that's actually
probably a great place to remind the listeners where they can get
connected with you, learn more about better culture.
Of course, we want them to navigate to that landing page.
But yeah, where, where can they connect with you personally
also? Yeah, well, you can find me on
LinkedIn. I'm the only Brett Hogavine on
there. If you can spell Hogavine,
you'll find me. We got a bunch of free resources
at betterculture.com. I'm telling you, that
Kickstarter pack is awesome and you need to grab it and try it.
It's free and really, really cool.
If you find a better free resource, I want to know about
it and then you can find me. I also host my own podcast which
is called the Better Culture Podcast, so you can check that
out too. Amazing.
I love it. Well, Brett, thank you so much.
And this was an awesome discussion, filled with maritime
analogies, but nevertheless an awesome discussion.
Wait, I don't know how to do it right.
No, that was right. That's way better than what I
could have done. But thank you so much, Brett,
and and I'd love to have you back on because culture is ever
evolving. So whatever might come down the
pipeline for better culture, culture in general, you know,
you let us know and we'd love to have you back.
Thank you. Keep doing what you're doing
too. We're making a difference,
right? We're both out there trying to
make the world a better place to work.
That's right, we try, we try. That's all we can do Thanks.
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