1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 Welcome to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,800 podcast. I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,240 spent my entire professional career in HR. 4 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,840 Each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,840 and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create 6 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,720 meaningful outcomes. Listen in as I share my own 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,560 experiences, challenge the status quo, and chat with guests 8 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,600 from various industries about our mission to bring the human 9 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,160 back to human resources. Hi everyone, welcome back to the 10 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,080 Bringing the Human Back to human Resources podcast. 11 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,120 Thank you so much for being here for another week. 12 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,000 Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe. 13 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,240 And if you did forget, well, I just reminded you, so you're 14 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,520 welcome. This week, I have Brett Hogavine 15 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,080 with me. He is on a mission to make the 16 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,680 world a better place to work. And I think we can all get 17 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,120 behind that. I don't we all want work to be 18 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,600 just amazing. I yeah right, like I want it to 19 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,200 be amazing. He is the Co founder of Better 20 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,920 Culture, a prominent leadership development and technology firm 21 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,840 with clients spanning from entrepreneurial startups to 22 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,000 Fortune 500 companies. A former healthcare executive, 23 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,200 retired engineer and startup investor, Brett helps 24 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,320 organizations build stronger leaders and engage every 25 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:09,560 employee. Brett travels nationally as a 26 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,360 speaker and a consultant with a single focus, providing 27 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,560 practical, actionable advice to help organizations build 28 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,680 dominantly successful cultures. As Brett and his growing list of 29 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,480 clients are keenly aware, a better culture means a Better 30 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,840 Business. I could not have said it myself. 31 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,640 That is literally what I scream out into the ether. 32 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,280 Brett, thank you. I love it. 33 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,400 All right. Yes, I'm glad. 34 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:33,640 Thank you. Thanks for having me of. 35 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:39,600 Course, I'm so glad you're here. I mean, I think this concept of 36 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,720 just simply putting it as, you know, a better culture equals a 37 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,440 better company and we can obviously deduct from that that 38 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,000 there is then you know, when you have a better culture, you have 39 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,240 more engaged employees, they're more fulfilled, they have better 40 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,440 tenure, all of the good things that come from that. 41 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,800 So where did this passion of yours, where did this, you know, 42 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:07,160 this focus on helping companies and people leaders to drive 43 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:08,400 better cultures? Where did that start? 44 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,960 Well, as you heard in my intro, I've I've been in a couple 45 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,440 different industries and that's partly because I was a numbers 46 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,520 person naturally. I went to school for engineering 47 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,360 always like math and science, and I never I wasn't originally 48 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,480 I had no, it wasn't on my radar at all. 49 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,200 Anything related to culture. I was just interested in stuff. 50 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:31,920 I was interested in career paths. 51 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,160 But when I got into the professional world, it hit me 52 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,640 like a ton of bricks that like, oh, the work that I do everyday, 53 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:43,200 the people I work with everyday, that has a really big impact on 54 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:48,840 my life, on my satisfaction, on, you know, my, my energy level, 55 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,560 on my enjoyment, on my etcetera. And I sort of thought to myself, 56 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,160 OK, how many years am I going to spend doing this in, in the 57 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,520 professional world? And I, I ended up flipping my 58 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,880 perspective quite a bit from thinking it really mattered what 59 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,280 I did, you know, what my job was, what my profession was, 60 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,440 what my career was. And I realized that's not 61 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:09,920 actually what was most important to me. 62 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:12,680 What was much more important to me was who I worked with, the 63 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,600 type of company that I worked for. 64 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,000 There's a lot of different things that talented 65 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,720 professionals could choose to do, but your life will have a 66 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,080 lot more meaning if you do it for a company that you enjoy 67 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:23,960 working for and for people that you like working with. 68 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,200 And that's kind of what culture is. 69 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,840 It is. I think, you know, what's 70 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,400 interesting about what you're saying is that kind of 71 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,200 reflecting on this idea that this is this is fundamentally, 72 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,800 fundamentally what culture is. We so often, I think 73 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,600 overcomplicate culture. We've created the culture has 74 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,840 become this word that for some people is a negative thing. 75 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,600 And for some people it's like, I love culture. 76 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:54,120 Woo. Yeah. 77 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,200 Drive it. But it's become almost like this 78 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,400 iceberg where we, you know, we scratch the surface. 79 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,480 We're like, hey, yeah, we want people to, you know, be happy. 80 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,160 And we're gonna pay them well and they're gonna stay. 81 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:11,240 And it's like this very basic level of what, you know, they 82 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,440 like good pay, for example, is really just a survival need. 83 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,600 Like is that really, you know, that's that's a basic need that 84 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,720 it is obviously a contributing factor to culture, but not 85 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,760 necessarily everything. And so I say that as an example 86 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:27,600 because again, this iceberg thought to me is that with with 87 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,720 culture being this like heavy-handed word or something 88 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,280 that we've created to be that way. 89 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,160 There's so much under the surface and a lot of companies, 90 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,400 I think really struggle to figure out what that is. 91 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,960 And at the same time, as much as I say that and believe that, I 92 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,720 also think that we do overcomplicate it and we make it 93 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:50,600 a, a bit of a of a, an enigma rather than just saying, OK, 94 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,240 when people, you know, feel supported, when they feel that 95 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,480 they have this, you know, opportunity to develop and grow, 96 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,800 when they like who they're around, That's that's what makes 97 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,720 culture culture. Yeah, So that OK, I'm gonna 98 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,600 stick with your iceberg analogy, OK. 99 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,160 And I've not done this before, so bear with me, but I think 100 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,280 you're right. I think where the skepticism and 101 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:15,000 where some of the cynicism comes from around culture or the 102 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,240 exhaustion or, or, or people that are more seriously business 103 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,680 minded think that it's just fluff, etcetera is when we talk 104 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,400 about culture as the part of the iceberg that you can see above 105 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,720 the water, right? The things that are, you know, 106 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,320 it's, it's the, it's all that. I don't want to say all the 107 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,400 stereotypical stuff, you know, it's the foosballs and the 108 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,880 napping pods and the, you know, flexible, you know, whatever the 109 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,680 stuff that you can see very visibly. 110 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,960 That's not what culture is. What culture is, is how people 111 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,040 feel about their job. It's about the attitudes and the 112 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,920 behaviors that people that that people show up with, right? 113 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,400 And that stuff is relatively invisible. 114 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,720 And so when people talk about culture and they and they treat 115 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,160 it as if it's perks and benefits, like that's not 116 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,680 culture at all. Culture is how loyal are people? 117 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,160 How deep are relationships? How much do people want to show 118 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,600 up and do work for your company, Right? 119 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:11,040 That's engagement is a much closer word to what we're 120 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,920 talking about there. But it is frustrating when some 121 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,320 people do think culture is just an expense. 122 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,400 It's something that you're, you're paying for perks or 123 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,920 benefits that people, some people use, some people don't. 124 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:23,440 That's really not what culture is at all. 125 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,560 Culture doesn't cost you money. Culture makes you money. 126 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,400 Yes, Oh, I love that. That's the sound bite. 127 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,640 Everybody. Culture doesn't cost you money. 128 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:33,720 It makes you money. I love it. 129 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:36,760 I and you know what, in so few words, that packs a punch 130 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,080 because what I again, I like what I scream into the ether. 131 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,360 And I think it's probably just like, you know, a a black hole 132 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:45,840 at this point that I'm screaming into. 133 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,720 It's like if we just focus on people and we don't think about 134 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,520 anything else. We think about how do we help 135 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,720 our people to be the most satisfied, the most fulfilled, 136 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,880 the happiest that they can be? Because I've, I've kind of moved 137 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,840 away a little bit from the term engagement because it's kind of 138 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:04,840 like culture. It's like, what does that 139 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:07,880 actually mean? But fulfillment and satisfaction 140 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,440 and happiness, those are we can understand exactly what that 141 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,840 feels like. So it's like, if we, if we focus 142 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,880 on that, then actually you're not going to have to worry about 143 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,200 your customer satisfaction because they're going to be very 144 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,880 satisfied because you're people who are speaking with your 145 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,560 customers, who are helping them navigate ups and downs of 146 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,440 whatever it is that that your business might support. 147 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,880 They're going to have the satisfaction that they need 148 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,760 because the people helping them are happy to be there and happy 149 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,800 to help. And I, this is something that in 150 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,680 my retail life was like the thing that everyone talked about 151 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,200 that like, don't worry about everything else. 152 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,520 If you focus on your people, everything else will fall into 153 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:46,680 place. You're going to make money, 154 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,040 you're going to drive your KPIs, the business is going to do 155 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,400 well. And it's it to me, it feels very 156 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,880 intrinsic. And then I see in other 157 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,600 businesses or I talk to other people and they're like, you 158 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,120 know, I can't figure out what it is like our people are not 159 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,800 happy. Our business is suffering and 160 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,480 it's like there has to be an easier way to help everyone see 161 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:09,760 that. That's the key. 162 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,560 Yeah, well, I'm on a mission to do that, but it is not easy, 163 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:15,560 right? It's not easy. 164 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,200 I'm in the I'm in the engagement survey business. 165 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,560 So better culture. We do culture surveys and we 166 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:21,760 don't even use the word engagement. 167 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,520 I agree with you. We call them culture surveys. 168 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,800 And I'll tell you the types of things that if, if you want to 169 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,200 get a feel for where your culture is, you want to be 170 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,679 asking questions about how proud are people of where they work? 171 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:38,080 Like a measure of pride. Like that's a great thing to try 172 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,400 to measure even more it it's tied to that concept of 173 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,120 engagement, I suppose. But how appreciated do people 174 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,360 feel? Do people feel like the 175 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,400 organization cares about them and their success? 176 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,840 So if, if you can go in those types of directions and, and so 177 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,400 my, what I always do with organizations is I then say, so 178 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,960 what's your strategy to help your employees feel more proud? 179 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:03,960 What's your strategy to make sure people feel more 180 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,160 appreciated? What's your strategy to make 181 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,120 sure that people know that the company's invested in their 182 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,840 success? And if you can't lay out a few 183 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,400 things that you're doing to improve those things, then 184 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,040 you're just letting your culture evolve by happenstance. 185 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,320 You don't really understand what culture is. 186 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,480 If you say, yeah, well, we're trying to tweak our benefits so 187 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,440 that we have a better culture, it's like that's not gonna get 188 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,920 you a better culture. Right, two totally different 189 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,920 schools of thought. I mean, it's, it is interesting 190 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,080 going back to the iceberg analogy that perks and benefits 191 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,720 are kind of sometimes the first things that are referenced when 192 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,680 it comes to culture. And obviously you see this a 193 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:46,480 lot. I also think that generally 194 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:51,440 speaking, people will bring up, you know, opportunities for 195 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,960 growth or recognition and appreciation, which obviously 196 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,480 play a big role. But I think sometimes where, and 197 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,360 I've even seen this in organizations that I've worked 198 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:04,120 with that there's this cart before the horse approach where 199 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,880 it's like, OK, well, if we, if we throw some money at this and 200 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,320 we give people recognition awards or we throw some money at 201 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,840 this and we promote these people more, that that will solve 202 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,200 whatever fulfillment, satisfaction, happiness, 203 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:22,640 engagement issue there might be. And in reality, that's still 204 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,840 kind of like a Band-Aid approach to whatever might actually be 205 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,600 the root cause of a lack of fulfillment and satisfaction at 206 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,800 the organizational level, really at the individual level. 207 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:38,120 So I'm curious from from your perspective with better culture 208 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,520 or even from, from clients that you've worked with, how do you 209 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,360 help leaders who really do struggle to understand root 210 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,400 causing culture deficits? Like where? 211 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,800 How do you how do you get them to see a different perspective? 212 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,760 Or how do where do you start with them? 213 00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:01,080 I think you start with strategy and you start with mindset, OK. 214 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,080 And I'll use the example that you just shared. 215 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,160 It's normal if, if employees don't feel appreciated to say, 216 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,920 OK, let's let's create a little bit of a budget and let's do 217 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,880 some, let's give some awards or let's do some recognition. 218 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,920 And that feels like progress. But it really is, like you said, 219 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,400 sort of a Band-Aid because what would really change how 220 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,320 employees felt about their organization is if A, leadership 221 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,960 decided that was an important priority strategically, and B, 222 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,160 they shifted their daily mindset about what it means to be a 223 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,720 leader, right? So if regularly in your 224 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,400 communication, you realize, oh, it's not part of my job to make 225 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,840 sure my team feels appreciated regularly, you'll see so many 226 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,120 opportunities to do that on a regular daily, weekly, monthly 227 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,520 basis. And that is, I mean, miles away 228 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,000 from saying, you know what, four months from now, we're going to 229 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,600 do a recognition event and we're going to recognize some people, 230 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,720 right? The amount, the way that your 231 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,040 employees are going to feel if their leader or leaders 232 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,440 throughout the organization just regularly say, oh, it's my job 233 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,680 to make sure people feel obscene and recognize, appreciate 234 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,040 regularly everyday versus you know what? 235 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,760 Let's, you know, it's some distant date in the future. 236 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,760 We're going to make sure we do some recognition. 237 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:19,640 Like those aren't close together. 238 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,760 And I, I hope people can understand that that are, that 239 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:26,160 are hearing this, those are, I mean, almost 180° opposite, 240 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:27,720 right? 1 is a drip in the bucket and 241 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,480 the other is a bucket that's full. 242 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,760 And but without that mindset shift of saying it's my job 243 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,920 regularly and daily to make sure my my team members feel 244 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,640 appreciated, you just, you think, well, we've checked that 245 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:41,680 box because we planned that thing three months from now. 246 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:43,640 Like you? No, you haven't checked the box 247 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,200 at all. Right. 248 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,320 And actually it will mean more if you have those incremental 249 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:56,400 daily changes and then this, you know, more maybe programmatic 250 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:01,360 approach to recognition kind of at the end of whatever, whether 251 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:02,920 it's a quarter or a year or whatever. 252 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,760 Because then it's like, oh, this is actually important to the 253 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,360 organization because my leader cares about it. 254 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,840 And obviously my leadership cares about it because there is 255 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:18,240 sometimes there is a a disconnect between what a leader 256 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,640 values, cares about, invests time in, like maybe a leader who 257 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:27,160 does do those daily incremental or has those daily and 258 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,840 incremental behaviors, for example, versus what a 259 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,400 leadership team or, you know, leadership at the organizational 260 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:40,120 level as a whole instills. And this is something like I in 261 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,440 even in recent conversations with, with people either that I 262 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,480 work with or, you know, or who are clients, there's this 263 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,840 element for me where it's like, OK, yes, you have to, you have 264 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,160 to move the entire ship. Like you do have to drive the 265 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,040 whole ship forward. And yet you can't actually do 266 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,320 that if every single person isn't doing something on their 267 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,480 own incrementally, whether it is those, you know, those daily 268 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,160 behaviors that impact people at an individual level or changing 269 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,680 the way that someone speaks to someone or, or how they 270 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:16,680 communicate. Those things all build for this, 271 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,280 you know, 1 vessel ultimately to move forward. 272 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,360 I'm using a lot of a lot of like marine and maritime, you know, 273 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,320 maritime, yes, analogies here. I don't know what it is a lot of 274 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:29,000 maritime. Thank you. 275 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,000 That was the word I was looking for. 276 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,440 So, you know, I, I, while as much as I I do think that 277 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,040 companies really do over complicate it, I think this part 278 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,800 of our conversation today around how each individual can impact 279 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:46,600 the culture is so important to actually creating better 280 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,880 cultures. And I think part of that too is 281 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:53,040 for leaders and maybe even just individual contributors who are 282 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,480 not necessarily managing A-Team, but are leaders in their own 283 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,560 right, depending on how they influence the organization, 284 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,600 should they choose to, that they feel some sort of ownership also 285 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:10,240 around driving a better culture. Absolutely, Yeah, Everybody has 286 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,040 a role to play, and it's not. You don't need to chase 287 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,040 perfection. You have to chase sort of 288 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:18,720 volume. I know that sounds weird to 289 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,880 people, but the organizations and the teams that make the most 290 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,520 progress on culture are the people that have it on in their 291 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,680 mind most often, you know, they're just doing something. 292 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,680 They're doing something to build pride, show appreciation, 293 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,680 develop people, deal with people who are toxic to work with, you 294 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,560 know, have, have coaching conversations that you don't 295 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,040 need to be perfect. You need to be high volume. 296 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,600 And if, if, if you're, if you're a manager and you're having 50 297 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,720 coaching conversations in a month with your team, you're 298 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,160 going to make way more progress than a manager that has five, 299 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,200 you know, And so the, and that's back to mindset, 'cause you see 300 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,240 the opportunity, you know, it's important and you see the 301 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:54,640 opportunity and you take it right. 302 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,440 And so people that realize that, that, yeah, culture will add 303 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,880 value to our business unit, we'll see more opportunities to, 304 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,640 to once they, if they have the mindset and then the skill set 305 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,720 to, to lean in and to do something on a regular basis. 306 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,600 So you don't have to be perfect, you just got to be busy. 307 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,080 Yeah, I like that. I like that volume. 308 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,400 So, you know, I know one of the things that we had talked about 309 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,680 offline was this idea of, you know, potentially like a bottom 310 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,840 up creation with driving better culture, bottom up influence, I 311 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,160 should say, a lot of the time I will say on my podcast, I I talk 312 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,560 about how culture is driven and influenced by everyone in an 313 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,840 organization. And yet you need to have a top 314 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:41,040 down approach in order to support anything that might be 315 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,440 grassroots or bottom up. But I want to hear from you. 316 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,880 What does that bottom up strategy or influence look like? 317 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,920 So we've spent a lot of time on bottom up culture building in 318 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,560 the last couple of years and I think it's a concept that people 319 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,400 really need to think about and hear about. 320 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,040 And, and here's all it means. OK, my best definition, I know 321 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,560 there's a lot of good definitions, but my best 322 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,720 definition for culture is the attitudes and the behaviors that 323 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,319 a group of people come to expect from one another. 324 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:10,400 OK, so whether you're running a whole company or you're running 325 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,960 a team of eight people, what I want you to say is what is your, 326 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,640 what do you, what do you want your culture to be? 327 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,119 And that would be describing the attitudes and behaviors that you 328 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,200 want people to show up with. How do you want them to show up 329 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:21,200 to work? How do you want them to 330 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,040 communicate, treat each other well? 331 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,240 Then if you want to have a better culture, if you want to 332 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,520 improve it, all you have to do is get clarity on the behaviors 333 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,920 you'd love to see and then do something to impact those on a 334 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,880 regular basis. OK, just how can you help people 335 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,240 show up with more of those things? 336 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,880 And Tracy, if you want to, we can get into an interesting 337 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,720 conversation here about core values and how I think, 338 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,680 unfortunately, most organizations are getting almost 339 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,280 no mileage out of their core values. 340 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,840 Sometimes they're behavioral, sometimes they describe an 341 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,560 attitude or behavior, but very seldom do I see organizations 342 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:01,080 that have any actual programming that's designed to help someone 343 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,240 live out those core values more robustly 6 months from from 344 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,360 today, right? Their their training and 345 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:10,760 development program. People aren't saying if these 346 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,640 core values describe the culture we want and if our goal is 347 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,680 improvement, continuous improvement, how can we help 348 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:22,200 John go from a, you know, from so, so on core value #3 to like 349 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,320 pretty good on core value #3 and if we did that, we would see 350 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,000 cultural progress. Does that make sense? 351 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:31,160 Yes, yes, I think it makes a ton of sense because companies spend 352 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,440 so much energy creating and sharing their mission and 353 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,920 values, and then there's hardly a link a lot of the time in 354 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,920 terms of how they're driving something forward. 355 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,960 Like how do we have to connect it back? 356 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,920 Yeah. So we went on a mission a few 357 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,120 years ago even with our best clients, we do leadership work. 358 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,400 We, we had only got, had a chance to work with the top 359 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,840 1015, maybe 20% of of their employees through our leadership 360 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,080 training. And, and we were relying 361 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,360 completely on then leaders that we had worked with to build the 362 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:06,120 culture with the other 8085% of the employee base. 363 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:08,760 And we said, I wonder if there's something we could build at 364 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,440 better culture where we could impact the rest of the employees 365 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,520 directly. And so we asked ourselves 366 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,360 essentially, what's a universal star employee look like? 367 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:21,520 What is a universal set of core values across all of our clients 368 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,240 best practices research? And we ended up with a list of 369 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,560 20 attitudes and behaviors that we now call our 20 tenets of 370 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,000 culture. And those 20 things are 371 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:35,520 correlated to, of course, cultural excellence, like to 372 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,480 high performing cultures, to healthy teams. 373 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,400 But the interesting thing is if people will do more of these 20 374 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,040 tenants, they'll they'll live these values better, they will 375 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,240 be more successful and happy personally. 376 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,360 And so we've taken that out into the marketplace and we've said, 377 00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:51,760 look, companies should be investing in their people to 378 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,560 build healthier teams and cultures, but also to help their 379 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,160 people be more successful and happy. 380 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,200 And there's a big win win here if we can help people. 381 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:03,520 Live more of these attitudes and behaviors that are good for the 382 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,960 company and good for them. Wow, I love that. 383 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:14,160 So out of curiosity then when when you share this approach and 384 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,920 this like basically this tool kit with leaders, especially who 385 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,520 are, you know, maybe a little bit more skeptical of culture 386 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,800 and maybe you're not exactly the ones driving it forward 387 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,840 everyday. How do you, how does it resonate 388 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,880 with them, with maybe the people who are more laggards in terms 389 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:36,760 of how they adopt new ideas? So I, I told you I'm a math guy, 390 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,120 I'm a numbers guy. I and I like, I'm, I'm also a 391 00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:40,800 skeptic. So I like skeptical people. 392 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,440 And our very first tenant, OK, out of these 20 and I'll, I'll 393 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,600 list a few of them if you'd like, but the very first one 394 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,600 says be coachable. OK, be coachable. 395 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,240 And even the most skeptical person, you can't argue with me 396 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:59,080 that if you have someone who is seeking new information, who 397 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,920 wants feedback, who's who's asking good questions, who wants 398 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,800 to learn and grow, that person over time is much more likely to 399 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,480 be a high quality employee and to be a successful, happy 400 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,720 person, right? And take this out of the work 401 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,600 world, like if you, let's say you're into health and fitness, 402 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,840 if you're coachable, you're likely to be healthier and more 403 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,200 fit, right? Or if you just, yeah, you know, 404 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,280 I think I know what's right. And I don't ever read a book or 405 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,680 listen to anybody like you're not going to be. 406 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,760 But if you, if you get a coach, if you get a fitness instructor, 407 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:27,720 like you're going to learn and grow, right? 408 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,040 And it's, it's the, it's the reason most of our clients, when 409 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,400 they're hiring, the number one thing people are looking for is 410 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,200 people that are open to new ideas, new growth or coachable, 411 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,280 right? And so we start with that and I 412 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,400 tell people like, we're not talking about fluffy stuff here. 413 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,760 This is if, if you can get people to be more coachable, 414 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:48,880 your team will be more effective, managers will be able 415 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,480 to give better feedback because people will hear it, The 416 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,520 organization will learn and grow, right? 417 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,960 So these are not complicated topics. 418 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,880 They're simple things. But the question is, do 419 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,040 employees have a growth plan that's going to help them be 420 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,840 better in any of these areas? Right. 421 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:11,960 That's so compelling because it's different from being open 422 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,600 in my mind, because being open, it's like, OK, well, I'm open, 423 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:20,440 I'm willing to to listen. But being coachable is like, not 424 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,440 only are you willing to listen and actually hear what's being 425 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,880 said, but you're actually willing to make changes. 426 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:31,160 And that I think is sometimes the hardest part of changing 427 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,960 anything is finding the willingness or the openness of 428 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,920 the coach ability from someone to actively and effectively make 429 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,000 those changes. And it's, it's just, it is 430 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,280 really in my mind pretty profound actually, because I 431 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:51,800 think when when organizations do struggle with culture, there is 432 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:57,160 often a lack of coach ability. And a lot of the times it's at 433 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,560 the leadership level and a lot of the times it's outside of the 434 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:04,800 leadership level because there's effectively, you know, something 435 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,480 in the water within an organization where it's OK to 436 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,520 say, oh, culture is someone else's problem. 437 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,600 Whereas when you have someone who is more coachable, they, 438 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,600 there's a shared ownership, there's a sense of 439 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,000 accountability, there's Oh yeah, well, maybe I don't have to 440 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,920 change, but maybe there's something that I will need to 441 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,160 change or evolve on over time. And I, I think that there is 442 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,520 there that that really resonates with me. 443 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,480 A lot It's a mindset shift to say that no, you not only should 444 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,920 might, you need to change, you should want to change, right, 445 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,400 But like it's a growth for the better. 446 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,920 It's yes, yes, people who are coachable are more successful. 447 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,440 So get coachable. Like, you know, like this isn't 448 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,120 an arguable thing. It's not it's it's simple, 449 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:46,520 right? You want to be a better golfer. 450 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,040 Well, you can either go swing the club the same every day or 451 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,680 you can get some lessons and get better. 452 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,400 You know this isn't a rocket science. 453 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,680 B Coach No, totally. You'll get better. 454 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,640 I love that. I recently said to a former 455 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,960 colleague that, you know, the the definition of insanity is 456 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,280 doing the same thing over and over again, expecting the same, 457 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,920 a different result. And when I think about what 458 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,400 you've just said, it's like it's another way of saying that, that 459 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,000 when you say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 460 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,120 Well, I'm doing the same things over and over again. 461 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:19,600 Something's not working. Maybe I should try something 462 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,720 new. Maybe I should be open to a 463 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,080 different, you know, possibility. 464 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,240 And I'm curious if you if in those twenty tenants of culture, 465 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,520 if there's anything around how anything around like respect and 466 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,520 communication and or even maybe accountability, whether it's 467 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,280 like personal accountability or team accountability. 468 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,640 So these are all personal characteristics, right? 469 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,720 And I'll, I'll list off some of them and you can tell me if one 470 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,520 of these sounds interesting. OK, I'm just going to go 471 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,880 straight down the list. But before I do this, I want you 472 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,960 to understand the goal here is imagine if on your team people 473 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,880 were self aware enough to sort of rate themselves on how they 474 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,160 are on these things and then pick a couple that they want to 475 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,040 work on because it'd be good for them. 476 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,720 OK, so that's just what building a better culture looks like is 477 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,160 clarity on where, what the attitudes and behaviors we'd 478 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,880 like to see and then doing something about it, working on 479 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,000 it, getting better, right? That's how you improve. 480 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,200 So tenant #2 is just simply be helpful, like proactively 481 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,280 helpful. Volunteer your time, jump in, 482 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,000 help colleagues, be open to pitching in #3 is a big one. 483 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,720 It's assume positive intent just like. 484 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,280 Love that. Don't, don't jump to 485 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,560 conclusions. Don't. 486 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,280 I mean, so much drama gets spun up because people can't assume 487 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,640 positive intent. They assume the worst, right? 488 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,960 And this effects our mood. It affects team dynamics, it 489 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,400 affects our mental health. You know, like someone cuts you 490 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,440 off in traffic. You can assume whatever you 491 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,160 want, but I'm telling you, you'd be better off to assume they're 492 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,320 in a hurry and just back up and say, yeah, must have somewhere 493 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:56,840 to be. Just assume positive intent. 494 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,280 It's good for you and it's good for the system. 495 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,200 It's good for the ecosystem. It really is. 496 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,120 And so it's stuff like that, you know, know how to have friendly 497 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:07,120 friction and disagreement, be welcoming, be upbeat, be 498 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,880 forgiving, OK. These are just like basic core 499 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,480 human competencies, honestly. And they're just as helpful to 500 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,680 for you to be a good neighbor as they are for you to be a good 501 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,520 employee. You know, they're universal. 502 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,640 Yeah. Yeah, I love that. 503 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,800 And like I said, I totally subscribe to the assuming 504 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,960 positive intent. My, one of my bosses in the past 505 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,160 would always say API assume positive intent. 506 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:35,440 And I really love it because, you know, in HR land, we'll say 507 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,360 like, seek to understand, seek to understand. 508 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,040 But actually assuming positive intent is exactly what that is 509 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,040 like when you seek to understand, you're trying to 510 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,600 figure out without making assumptions what that other 511 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,720 person was doing, thinking or feeling. 512 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,320 And when we say assume positive intent, it's such a, it's a, 513 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,440 such a direct way of saying like, Hey, drop, drop your own 514 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:01,440 ego, your own emotions and, and put the, the best case scenario 515 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,240 forward, the best opportunity for that person to maybe just 516 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,520 have a reasonable excuse or explanation for why something 517 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,040 might have happened in whatever way. 518 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,800 So I, I love that. And I can only imagine that with 519 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,440 scratching the surface there. Oh my gosh, iceberg analogy 520 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,360 again. Here it comes scratching the 521 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:22,520 surface there that there's so much more that people can relate 522 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,880 to. And I wonder do do organizations 523 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:30,160 that you work with, do they use this multi tenant like this 20 524 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:35,840 tenant tenants of culture approach to also maybe decide if 525 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,720 people are right for their organization? 526 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,680 Like do they do they see it as a tool for also identifying if 527 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,320 that if there are people who are not focused on the future state? 528 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,880 Some do, yeah. You know, some organizations go 529 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,240 so far as to to work these into their evaluations, their hiring 530 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,960 processes, you know, to say, look, if we had an employee that 531 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,080 showed up and did these things, could they is would it be 532 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,600 possible? It like if they knew that if 533 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,560 they had some technical skill, would it even be possible that 534 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,920 they would be not a great fit? And usually they say, not 535 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,080 really. I mean, it's a pretty good 536 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,160 definition of a star. If you're interested. 537 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,400 I'd, I'd like, I'd, I'd love to paint the picture for how 538 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,840 organizations can use this as a more robust tool. 539 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,560 Because there's the, there's the philosophical side of it, but 540 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,400 we've also tried to build some, some framework to make it really 541 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,400 easy for organizations that wanna build healthier cultures. 542 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,320 Yeah, please indulge us. So we started with the 543 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,600 philosophy and we came up with these 20 and we tried to make it 544 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,680 fewer, but we just couldn't. There's so many good ones that 545 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,520 we said we got to keep all 20. And we, we showed them to 546 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,840 organizations that are best places to work, fantastic 547 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,840 cultures. We said, help us validate these 548 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,960 like this, This is a star for you, right? 549 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,680 And they said, yeah, we love these, We love these. 550 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,120 How do you, what do you do with it? 551 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,960 And so then we asked ourselves back to that question of what 552 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,160 does it mean to actually shape culture to help people 553 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,080 continuously improve in at an organization? 554 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,000 And so we build a software product around these that starts 555 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,680 with every. And this is the easiest. 556 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,600 If you're a company that wants to be doing something with 557 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,840 culture, but you don't have time or a lot of budget, like this is 558 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,040 the easiest solution I've seen. And all you do is you, you put 559 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,640 your employees on a platform, they all get to do a 560 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,200 self-assessment. The messaging to them says, hey, 561 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,440 this is good. It's an investment the company's 562 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,040 making in you because these things are they're, they're not 563 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,120 just culture. It's like you'll be more 564 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,720 successful and happy if you do these things. 565 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,800 You self assess. You pick two that you want to 566 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,280 work on. And then our software over the 567 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,960 course of a whole campaign year gives everyone in the company 568 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,320 coaching videos, team conversations, exercises on a 569 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,040 regular cadence throughout the year. 570 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:48,880 We surface automatic culture conversations across all 20 and 571 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,480 the people that pick the two they want to work on, they get 572 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,080 extra quarterly nudges throughout the year to say, hey, 573 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,360 how are you doing on your two focus areas, etcetera. 574 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,120 And it's what we see with culture initiatives is a lot of 575 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,400 people want to do something, but they don't have the time that 576 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,280 you know, who's going to run it and how are we going to 577 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,440 operationalize it. And So what we've tried to do 578 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,000 here, Tracy is to make this bottom up culture building that 579 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,000 how how can a company invest in every single employee and make 580 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,200 it easy and make it simple. We've said huh, I think if we 581 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,920 identify the attitudes and behaviors that are would be at 582 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,600 would be the attributes of a high performing culture and then 583 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,000 we do something to regularly influence them that that's how 584 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,160 you could help make continuous progress in culture. 585 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,680 That's awesome. I love that. 586 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,120 It sounds like a really fabulous opportunity for people to think 587 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,760 a little bit less about what to do and in a way kind of like 588 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,280 outsource a little bit of this and, and have like use this as a 589 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:50,000 way to help them guide their strategy and make improvements 590 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,800 in their organization. So I think it sounds like really 591 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,720 interesting and we love a way to automate some things like 592 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,560 software. I mean, especially for you as a 593 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,120 former engineer, I'm sure that this feels really awesome. 594 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,040 Yeah, and you know, I tell people that like a lot of times 595 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,960 people say, well, I don't know if we like your 20 tens. 596 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,120 We we have our core values. I said great, do the same thing 597 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,040 with your core values. Do a self-assessment, create 598 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,160 coaching and development content around your core values to so 599 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,320 that you're trying to help people continuously evolve and 600 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,920 improve the way that they show up. 601 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,640 Right. And if you want to build all 602 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,120 that, do it. If you want to assume our twenty 603 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,800 are pretty aligned like it's already pre built so. 604 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:25,960 Right. I love that. 605 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,080 Well, thank you for sharing that. 606 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,600 I, I think for, for people listening, I'm sure based on the 607 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,520 outreach that I get, I'm sure that they're very interested in 608 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,560 learning a little bit more because I do get a lot of 609 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,200 outreach about, you know, toxic workplaces and what do I do with 610 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,160 this hostile person? How do I navigate? 611 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,920 And I do think sometimes the answer is to hire a company or a 612 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,640 team like Better Culture to help you out because. 613 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,560 Well, here I have a special. I have a even a better 614 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,840 suggestion which of course I love you to reach out and hire 615 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,080 me, but if you just want to learn more, I created a special 616 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,600 landing page just for your listeners with a. 617 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,440 Thank you. A free premium resource like so 618 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,560 all of the everything we built in 20 tenants, we took two of 619 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,320 them and we built, put them into our culture Kickstarter pack, we 620 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,080 call it. And So what this has in it is 621 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,840 self-assessment videos, coaching videos, team exercises, like you 622 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,200 can take two of these 20 tenants and do everything we've ever 623 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,920 built with your team for free. And so I would just encourage 624 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,320 people to to grab that. Can I give you the URL that we 625 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,040 put that? Yes, absolutely. 626 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:30,320 And we'll put it in the show notes too. 627 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,280 That's amazing. Great, it's just that better 628 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,280 culture.com/HR Tracy. And that's Tracy with an I, so. 629 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,080 That's right, it is Tracy with. I thank you. 630 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,520 I love, I love an accurate spelling moment of my name. 631 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,080 Thank you so much, Brett. I mean, that's awesome. 632 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,440 We'll definitely make sure that the listeners navigate to that 633 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,480 page and like take advantage of this free resource for them. 634 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,000 So I really, I appreciate that I, you know, it's the gift that 635 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,800 keeps on giving if you ask me. And I think that's actually 636 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,240 probably a great place to remind the listeners where they can get 637 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,280 connected with you, learn more about better culture. 638 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,160 Of course, we want them to navigate to that landing page. 639 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,400 But yeah, where, where can they connect with you personally 640 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,880 also? Yeah, well, you can find me on 641 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,840 LinkedIn. I'm the only Brett Hogavine on 642 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:17,920 there. If you can spell Hogavine, 643 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,000 you'll find me. We got a bunch of free resources 644 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,960 at betterculture.com. I'm telling you, that 645 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,920 Kickstarter pack is awesome and you need to grab it and try it. 646 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,400 It's free and really, really cool. 647 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,320 If you find a better free resource, I want to know about 648 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:34,600 it and then you can find me. I also host my own podcast which 649 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,120 is called the Better Culture Podcast, so you can check that 650 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:37,960 out too. Amazing. 651 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,280 I love it. Well, Brett, thank you so much. 652 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,600 And this was an awesome discussion, filled with maritime 653 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,560 analogies, but nevertheless an awesome discussion. 654 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,920 Wait, I don't know how to do it right. 655 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,160 No, that was right. That's way better than what I 656 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,600 could have done. But thank you so much, Brett, 657 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,600 and and I'd love to have you back on because culture is ever 658 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,000 evolving. So whatever might come down the 659 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,320 pipeline for better culture, culture in general, you know, 660 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:04,800 you let us know and we'd love to have you back. 661 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:06,760 Thank you. Keep doing what you're doing 662 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,080 too. We're making a difference, 663 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:09,199 right? We're both out there trying to 664 00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:10,639 make the world a better place to work. 665 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,400 That's right, we try, we try. That's all we can do Thanks. 666 00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:17,920 Hey, just before you go, don't forget to subscribe to the show 667 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,840 so that you are the first to hear when an episode drops each 668 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,280 week and maybe leave a five star review and a comment about how 669 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,080 much you loved this episode. Plus, if you have someone in 670 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,520 mind who would really enjoy this episode, make sure you share it 671 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,520 with them. Thank you so much for tuning in 672 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:32,880 and I'll see you next week.