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Welcome to the bringing the 
human Back To Human Resources, 

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podcast, the podcast, all about 
the delicate balance between 

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people and business. 
And quite literally reconnecting

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the to my name is Tracy Ruben, 
and I've spent nearly my entire 

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professional career in h.r., 
join me as I share stories 

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opinions and words of advice 
with you each week. 

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Hey everyone. 
Welcome back to the bringing the

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human Back To Human Resources 
podcast. 

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Thank you so much for being here
again for yet another week. 

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Last week, I spoke a little bit 
about terminations, especially 

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with how we approach them as 
people managers or HR Partners. 

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Anyway, I wanted to first start 
with the ground rules for 

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terminations one. 
Do your due diligence if you are

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a manager or if you're an HR 
partner, You do your due 

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diligence, if it's an 
investigation, make sure you 

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investigate fairly and 
investigate. 

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Anyone necessary don't 
investigate just everybody 

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because then you will lose 
credibility with the emphasis on

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confidentiality, but you should 
investigate or really when I say

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investigate in this context, 
it's kind of like, interviewing 

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or speaking with employees who 
are an integral or critical part

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of the investigation. 
To make sure that you have all 

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of your ducks in a row. 
Get all of your facts down. 

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Have all of your anticipated 
questions answered. 

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And obviously, as you this is 
going to sound terrible. 

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But as you do more of these or 
have more of these 

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conversations, you'll get used 
to it and you won't have to do 

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as much prep and you'll know the
answers are, for example. 

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But yes. 
Have all of your ducks in a row.

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Don't get caught. 
Not Not knowing what you're 

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talking about. 
That is like a recipe for 

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disaster now on the on a 
different note. 

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If you don't know the answer to 
something and you've already 

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done your prep, that's okay. 
Just acknowledge. 

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Hey I don't have the answer for 
you right now. 

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Let me get that for you and I'll
come back to you not knowing 

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everything is a fully normal and
appropriate characteristic, 

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like, we cannot possibly know 
every single thing. 

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So you should feel empowered and
confident enough. 

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You say actually, I don't know 
the answer to your question. 

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Let me come back to you. 
And finally think about the 

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human element, you're talking to
your terminating your speaking. 

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With a person, a human being a 
living breathing. 

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Emotional being don't go in 
there, fired up, ready to be a 

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jerk. 
Now, I will say, I have gotten 

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fired up in the middle of 
terminations, or I have been I'm

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fired up to have a termination 
because someone has earned their

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termination so much because of 
something that they did, that 

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was really bad that I'm like, 
oh, I am ready to go, but I 

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never lose sight of who I'm 
speaking with. 

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So all of those emotions and I 
don't want to call them like 

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moments of excitement because we
should never be excited to 

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terminate someone. 
But I'll be frank. 

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When you have an employee who is
problematic or who has done 

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something. 
That is vile and I've been there

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you are excited for them to 
leave and I think it's okay to 

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acknowledge that within a safe 
space and within, you know, 

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within reason but you know, 
don't don't make them aware 

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that, you're excited to have the
conversation or that you're 

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looking forward to not having 
this problem anymore. 

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I'll, I'll break that down. 
I don't want you to think. 

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I'm just like a jerk that thinks
that it's exciting to terminate 

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people at all. 
At all let alone people who have

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earned their terminations. 
That's not what I'm saying. 

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What I'm saying is that there 
are problematic people who we do

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look forward to moving through 
because they are that 

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problematic. 
So you have the ground rules, 

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you know what's at stake? 
What's next? 

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Well, for me as an HR person, I 
like to prep new managers or 

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people who are new in their role
so that they know exactly how to

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walk into that conversation. 
And fortunately I work for a 

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company where our core values 
are to be kind and humble, and 

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they're very familial. 
So I rarely, I don't know if 

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I've ever at least not in the 
last couple of years, had to say

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to someone, you need to approach
this from a kind place. 

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I don't think I've ever had to 
do that in my, my current 

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company. 
But in my past life, I 

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definitely did. 
And so if you're in a position 

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where you are working with or a 
partner too, Two people manager 

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who is maybe a little bit absent
of the emotional intelligence. 

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Let's say you should prep them 
on how to actually conduct that 

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conversation. 
If you are the people manager 

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and someone is prepping, you 
don't be offended, that's okay, 

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the prep is part of the 
development and part of the 

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learning moment. 
So take it and run with it. 

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And actually, I think everyone 
approaches things a little bit 

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differently and that's okay. 
But again, keep those ground 

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rules in mind, and always 
remember that we should lead 

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with kindness first and still, 
maintain our directness and 

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Clarity. 
Another thing, and I realized I 

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didn't say this before, You 
should, if you are the manager 

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in this scenario, you should 
always. 

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Always make sure that you are 
taking a partner before you 

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terminate. 
If you are in a smaller industry

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or in like a mom-and-pop kind of
business, you're probably not 

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going to have to take as many 
steps because you are the judge 

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and the jury. 
But if you have an HR function, 

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you absolutely need to make sure
that you partner first because 

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every termination opens up the 
company for legal risk. 

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It's just a fact and it's not to
say that. 

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When you terminate someone 
you're going to get sued, 

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absolutely not theirs. 
I would say that 9 out of 10 

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terminations are very, very cut 
and dry and would have no 

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grounds to stand on if there 
were any legal pursuance. 

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And it's not to say that every 
termination would lead to 

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someone saying, I'm going to see
the company, definitely not but 

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from a consistency fairness and 
legal standpoint, the 

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partnership is critical. 
So key Your HR partner is 

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closed. 
If there's only one HR person in

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your company, or maybe, there 
isn't an HR person in your 

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company at all, run it by 
someone who is a trusted 

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partner. 
So, let's say you don't have an 

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HR function in your business, 
you should then partner with 

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your supervisor or whomever is 
in a role that looks at the 

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organization on a global level. 
And I say that because the 

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consistency and terminations is 
really, really, really 

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important. 
The consistency and 

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accountability is We important. 
Because if you don't treat 

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person X, the same as you treat 
person. 

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Why you're then doubling down on
your legal risk. 

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Not only are you not being 
consistent in the way that you 

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hold those people accountable. 
But you're also not considering 

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how that could look 
discriminatory. 

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So, always make sure that you're
taking a partner and looking at 

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what is consistently done. 
So for example, Behavioral 

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issues, harassment retaliation, 
those things are pretty much 

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always an immediate termination 
and most companies, right? 

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Like they're all violations of 
policy in some way Behavior. 

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Maybe it's a little bit more 
gray. 

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So if we think about just 
violation of policy, harassment 

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retaliation, those things are 
cut and dry for the most part. 

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So, I want to share a story. 
It's a true story from when I 

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was at Target there. 
As a manager in my store who 

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took it upon themselves to 
terminate an employee because 

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that manager felt like the 
employee was not doing a good 

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job that manager did not first 
get approval from me. 

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The manager did not have any 
corrective actions on file for 

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the employee. 
And the manager basically did 

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not follow our policies and 
protocols for how we evaluate 

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someone's Readiness for Being 
managed out or terminated and 

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basically, in Target, you always
had to have a healthy amount of 

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corrective actions to show that 
you've really done the work to 

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manage, this employees 
performance to improve their 

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performance, but especially when
it comes down to Performance and

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productivity, those things are 
much more gray. 

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So you need documentation to 
really support the reason for 

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your termination of that 
employee. 

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So again, the person the manager
did not get the approval from 

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me. 
So, Found out that the person 

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was terminated I was like, whoa,
buddy, what's going on here? 

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Why are you terminating an 
employee and like why are you 

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not running this by me? 
Like this is not your role. 

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Your Role is to make sure that 
you are holding employees 

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consistently accountable. 
Yes. 

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Holding them accountable but 
fairly and consistently and the 

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manager was like, what do you 
mean? 

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I don't know. 
I'm running, I'm running the 

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show. 
Like this is my part of the 

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business and I was like, that's 
great. 

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Great. 
But every person in this 

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building is part of my business 
and we have to we've got to 

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solve this problem now. 
So we have someone who has been 

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wrongfully terminated at this 
point. 

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Like are you going to bear that 
burden because you didn't get 

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approval? 
So now all of that is on you 

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like is that really what you 
want? 

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And this manager was new and 
roll but really needed to kind 

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of be like smacked over the head
with this information and that's

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okay. 
I actually had a very very A 

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strong working relationship with
his manager. 

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And so being that direct and 
being like, whoa, what is going 

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on was totally appropriate for 
the working relationship that we

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had what ended up happening is. 
I had to partner with my HR 

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partner because this now was 
inconsistency that I needed to 

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flag and my recommendation was 
actually to reinstate that 

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person and basically to say 
listen, we made a mistake, you 

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know? 
This person like didn't mean to 

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terminate you. 
We're really sorry for the 

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confusion. 
Here's what we need from you and

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to actually use that a level as 
a level setting moment, and it 

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ended up being totally fine. 
We move forward with my 

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recommendation, my partner 
agreed with me. 

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We reinstated the person, and 
that person ended up working 

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with us for pretty long time. 
And everything was fine. 

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And then they found like a 
full-time job. 

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And that was it in some 
situations. 

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I think there are Lawyers, who 
would prefer not to admit guilt,

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and would rather just cut their 
losses and say, okay, whatever 

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you made a mistake. 
Like, we're not going to 

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reinstate that person, but 
actually, I share this story 

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because I think that there is 
something important about 

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businesses owning their actions 
and mistakes. 

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And whether it's a business or 
an individual manager, it's a 

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big part of the Learning lesson,
that comes with being a manager 

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and living through these 
experiences. 

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So, I share that because While 
it was a mistake that the 

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manager made, it also was like a
totally active decision. 

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That manager knew exactly was 
it, that manager terminated that

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person because they were 
frustrated with their 

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performance, and that was it the
manager just sent the employee 

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home. 
No questions asked. 

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And so, I used that opportunity 
after we reinstated the employee

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to say to the manager. 
Like listen, you talking about a

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human being Could you imagine if
you were terminated on the spot 

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and your manager had never had a
performance conversation with 

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you. 
How would you feel? 

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I bet you would feel like crap 
because I certainly would and 

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that manager was like, you know,
I didn't think about it that 

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way. 
I just like wanted my process to

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move smoothly and I didn't want 
to have any Loose Ends. 

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And of course, I understand that
I'm an HR partner, I get it. 

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My role in the business is to 
support the business and the 

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people, but I also care about 
managers having the most 

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productive people in their 
process. 

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But you can't treat those people
like a process. 

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You have to treat people like 
people. 

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So that's my anecdote. 
Another thing that I wanted to 

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share is something that inspired
me. 

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So today, I actually connected 
with With a CEO of a business. 

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So it's actually his own 
business and I'm going to have 

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him on the show in a future 
episode. 

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And he was sharing with me that 
his philosophy as a business 

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leader, is to focus on people 
behind the process and that and 

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that's in super layman's terms. 
And as part of his brand as part

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of his company's mission, You 
spend a lot of time talking 

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about people and performance and
productivity and being an agile 

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member of a culture and creating
agile, cultures and all of these

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things. 
And I'm telling you when he is 

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on this podcast, I think you are
going to love him, but he 

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basically said people don't see,
meaning managers struggle to see

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that people are part of the 
solution. 

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For example, he He was saying to
me that companies and managers 

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all have the same worries and 
concerns and focuses for 

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improvement. 
And it's all about people 

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whether its turnover or culture 
or whatever is people focused, 

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right? 
But when a manager talks about a

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solution to those objectives, 
they're leaving out the people 

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behind that solution. 
I thought that that was 

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Insightful, because it's true. 
I've heard a lot of conversation

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from HR people around process 
and how processes need to be 

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more efficient, more streamlined
in order to improve the people 

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function. 
But actually, I think it's the 

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inverse. 
It's the people who are going to

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streamline and make the process 
efficient. 

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The process can be streamlined 
and efficient. 

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If the people aren't provided 
the At training, given the right

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opportunities, right? 
The right fit for the role happy

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in their roles engaged. 
It all comes down to people. 

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We can't put the cart before the
horse. 

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So it's interesting because I've
heard a lot of conversation 

251
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about this how people Centric 
organizations or people Centric 

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businesses have a process and 
how the process is the key and 

253
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the technology is the key. 
But I don't think it's the key. 

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The key is what makes those 
things work. 

255
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The key is the people were 
talking about people-centric, 

256
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right? 
What does that mean? 

257
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People are at the center. 
So if you have a process that's 

258
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broken, you need to look at your
people and it's not to say that 

259
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those people need to be 
terminated, but it is to say 

260
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that people have to be the 
biggest part of the solution. 

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So anyway, getting back to 
terminations my best advice to 

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To every manager or HR person is
to think about, terminations in 

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a legal perspective, or through 
a legal lens through a human 

264
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lens and through a lens of 
fairness and consistency. 

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I also think that as HR managers
and, as people become more 

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seasoned and experienced in 
their careers, there will be 

267
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less of this threat of lawsuit 
with every A nation. 

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00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,200
Like I've found that I in the 
beginning stages of my career, I

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used to think that every time I 
fired someone that they would 

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come back and see the company 
and that is pretty petrifying. 

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When you think about it and 
certainly people Sue and that's 

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okay, that is why you have to do
your due diligence and making 

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00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,800
sure that you have 
documentation, making sure that 

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you're consistent and that 
you're fair. 

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But people also need to be held 
accountable, and you can't shy 

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00:16:54,700 --> 00:17:01,900
away from that. in recently 
emailed me saying or citing a 

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00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:06,700
lot of words that normally are 
like red flag words and in 

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00:17:06,700 --> 00:17:11,900
reality there's no reason for 
concern this person was being a 

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00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:16,500
little advantageous As an HR 
person, I can go one of two 

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00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:21,900
ways, either I bend the policy 
and I bend things to smooth 

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00:17:21,900 --> 00:17:25,500
things over and appease the 
person, or I stand firm in the 

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policies. 
Make sure that they're 

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accountable to the policies and 
allow them to ask questions if 

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they have any and the latter is 
the best position that you can 

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take when it comes to being fair
and consistent. 

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00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:43,300
I have seen a lot of managers 
struggle. 

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00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:46,400
Especially when Our new and 
their roles struggle with 

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00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,400
maintaining control over their 
work environment. 

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00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:54,100
And I say this because it makes 
me think about how we can 

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00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:58,800
prevent performance Behavior or 
policy issues. 

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All of the terminations that 
happen. 

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Again, people earn those 
terminations. 

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00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:07,200
I'm not thinking about or 
talking about layoffs or 

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00:18:07,208 --> 00:18:10,000
position eliminations because 
those are outside of an 

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00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,500
individual's control, but every 
other termination is completely 

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00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:17,100
earned that that person worked 
hard to be terminated or they 

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00:18:17,100 --> 00:18:21,200
did absolutely nothing and 
therefore worked very hard to be

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00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:26,300
terminated because I think it's 
pretty easy actually to stay 

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00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:31,700
employed when you are doing your
job like just fundamentally 

300
00:18:31,700 --> 00:18:36,000
doing your job, coming to work 
with a positive attitude and a 

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00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,400
team mentality, right? 
Like if we can boil it down to 

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00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,600
three things, doing your job 
coming to work with a positive 

303
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,200
attitude and Being a team 
player, those three things. 

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00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,800
If you come to work every day 
with those three things, you're 

305
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,600
probably going to be able to 
stay away from being terminated.

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00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:56,400
I don't want to speak for 
everybody but that is my feeling

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that's my feeling but a big part
of terminations is like, 

308
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:07,700
thinking about how could we set 
up employees for preventing this

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00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:10,400
from happening, what I've seen 
throughout my career? 

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00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,000
Is that terminations happen 
because they are You earned, of 

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00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,300
course, excluding layoffs and 
position eliminations but when 

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00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:22,900
they are earned they are often 
earned by people who were not 

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00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:26,000
the right fit to begin with who 
shouldn't have been hired. 

314
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,100
As really what I'm trying to get
out there or who are in work 

315
00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:34,000
environments where things that 
shouldn't be tolerated are 

316
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,100
tolerated and that is obviously 
a reflection on the manager and 

317
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:41,600
I have seen this time and time 
again where managers who are not

318
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,000
the right fit or shouldn't have 
been hired in the first? 

319
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,400
Plays or whatever the situation 
is, don't have control over 

320
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,200
their work environment over 
their store, over their 

321
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:57,900
business, over there District, 
whatever the industry is and 

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00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,200
problems. 
Persist in those environments 

323
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,900
where poor behavior is 
tolerated. 

324
00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:07,600
Bad things happen, where people 
don't care about each other, 

325
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,700
they're not working as a team. 
Bad things happen, things are 

326
00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:13,100
just never good in those 
environments and it takes a 

327
00:20:13,100 --> 00:20:15,900
manager. 
Who's really going to step in, 

328
00:20:16,100 --> 00:20:18,300
hold everyone accountable and 
level set. 

329
00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:22,100
What's tolerable to actually 
make a change? 

330
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,400
And I have always seen that in 
these environments where there 

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00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,700
are people issues or as we call 
it an HR employee relations 

332
00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:32,700
issues. 
It's the manager, most often who

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00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:37,200
is struggling and if we can get 
the manager piece, right? 

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00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,600
The other stuff falls into 
place. 

335
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,400
For example, one time in my 
career there was a manager who 

336
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,500
was perceived To be really 
strong. 

337
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:51,700
But once we put a new manager 
supervising that person into the

338
00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:54,700
environment, we started to 
uncover some really bad 

339
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:57,900
behaviors really poor 
performance and we started 

340
00:20:57,900 --> 00:20:59,800
peeling back, the layers, 
peeling back the layers and 

341
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,900
we're we uncovered in that 
moment that that manager 

342
00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:06,900
actually was not doing their job
was not going to work with a 

343
00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:11,600
positive attitude and was not a 
team player on top of finding 

344
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:17,100
out that there were issues. 
Shoes of retaliation and like, 

345
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,200
even though this was a while 
ago, these things still happen. 

346
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,100
Like this is not a rare 
occurrence when it comes to a 

347
00:21:24,108 --> 00:21:28,000
business because businesses have
people working for them and 

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00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,700
where there are people, there's 
always going to be an issue. 

349
00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:33,800
It's just part of the human 
condition. 

350
00:21:34,100 --> 00:21:37,800
And so obviously, we couldn't 
tolerate the behaviors from 

351
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,200
that, that manager. 
And so we needed to, you know, 

352
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,100
part ways. 
But what we Lies is that we 

353
00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:49,400
needed to get someone who could 
really step in Elevate. 

354
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,900
The morale, bring people back to
the foundational elements of the

355
00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:56,400
business and get it. 
Right. 

356
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,300
Because at that point, so much 
trust has been lost from the 

357
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:04,700
employees on part of the company
and the manager when someone is 

358
00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:11,100
a bad fit that can impact the 
organization for years, I have 

359
00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:15,300
experienced it myself where 
someone in a Significant and 

360
00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:18,900
critical position was absolutely
the wrong fit. 

361
00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:23,000
And what happened was key 
players including myself felt 

362
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,200
ostracized, felt like, you know 
what, maybe this isn't the right

363
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:32,400
place for us and so one of the 
roles that terminations play is 

364
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,100
actually setting. 
The example of what is 

365
00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:41,500
tolerable, what the right fit 
looks like and what is valued at

366
00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:44,300
a company. 
So for example if you and Our 

367
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:51,300
company can think about someone 
who is rude, not a team player. 

368
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,700
Doesn't do their job and they 
stay actively employed and their

369
00:22:56,700 --> 00:23:01,100
manager and HR and whomever 
knows about these issues. 

370
00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:05,300
How is it going to feel for you 
if that person remains part of 

371
00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:07,900
the team? 
It's not going to feel very good

372
00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:11,600
so while terminations are 
confidential and employees who 

373
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,700
are not a part of that 
conversation or Or part of the 

374
00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:19,400
decision-making are not going to
be at Liberty, to know what is 

375
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:24,800
going on behind the scenes, 
people know when someone is not 

376
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,800
the right fit and people know 
when that person is let go 

377
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,800
because of it. 
So I know I'm talking about a 

378
00:23:31,808 --> 00:23:34,200
lot of things related to 
terminations here, but I think 

379
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:39,600
that terminations can be a very 
important part of the employment

380
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,900
process for teams and HR people 
and managers. 

381
00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:48,700
Because if you if you hired 
someone for example, who is not 

382
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:53,100
a good fit and you see it fail 
fast. 

383
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,500
Learn that lesson quickly, if 
you see that someone is not a 

384
00:23:57,508 --> 00:24:00,200
right fit one month after hiring
them. 

385
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,500
Don't wait that much longer like
you give them some feedback. 

386
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:09,300
Give them room to improve. 
But if they haven't, don't wait 

387
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:12,300
so long. 
You are running the risk of 

388
00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:16,500
losing top talent. 
As a result of hiring someone 

389
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,500
who's not top talent and not the
right cultural fit and keeping 

390
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:24,600
them on board. 
But I think it still can be 

391
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,900
summed up that you should make 
sure you're doing your due 

392
00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:32,100
diligence, have your 
documentation Be fair and 

393
00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:36,700
consistent and remember that 
these people are people don't 

394
00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:41,800
treat people like objects that 
are replaceable and in and that 

395
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,300
lack value. 
At the end of the day, when you 

396
00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:48,800
terminate someone the way you 
terminate them can matter a lot 

397
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:54,200
and how they receive your 
message and how they go out into

398
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,100
the world. 
Obviously, when people get 

399
00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:58,400
terminated they're going to come
up with their own stories that 

400
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,900
doesn't matter that's fine but 
they're going to have a much 

401
00:25:02,900 --> 00:25:07,300
better response reaction and 
possibly a better Outlook. 

402
00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:11,300
If you treat them like human 
beings with dignity and respect,

403
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:14,400
I don't know. 
I feel like everything That 

404
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,200
happens with people or that's 
people. 

405
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,500
Facing should be thought about 
in the context of how would I 

406
00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:23,700
want it to happen to me? 
How would I want to be spoken 

407
00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:26,300
to? 
How would I want to be treated? 

408
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:32,100
And again, like, if you are numb
to the process, if you are like 

409
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:37,300
totally immune to the emotional 
elements of someone losing their

410
00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:40,100
job, and then thinking about how
they're going to pay their 

411
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:43,200
bills, you might need to think 
about your career. 

412
00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:46,600
And if you're in the right 
career, especially if you're an 

413
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,100
HR, especially underline, bold 
italicize. 

414
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:54,500
It's not to say that I lose 
sleep. 

415
00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:57,700
Always over someone that I'm 
terminating. 

416
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,800
Sometimes I do, I'll be really 
Frank. 

417
00:26:01,100 --> 00:26:05,800
I have lost sleep in 
anticipation of a termination 

418
00:26:06,100 --> 00:26:09,900
and after termination, and it's 
just because they're not easy, 

419
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:12,900
termination suck, even when 
they're earned. 

420
00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:17,100
But it doesn't mean that I'm 
devoid of the understanding of 

421
00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:19,900
the impact. 
Everyone needs to understand the

422
00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:25,800
whys, Going to send you out with
one last hot take and that is 

423
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,100
that you're going to have to 
terminate people. 

424
00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:30,900
If you're a manager, you're 
going to terminate probably a 

425
00:26:30,908 --> 00:26:34,300
lot of people throughout your 
career just don't lose your 

426
00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:39,200
compassion and consideration as 
you go through those experiences

427
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:42,500
because the better you can hold 
on to your compassion and 

428
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:44,800
consideration. 
The better the manager you're 

429
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,400
going to be and the better the 
manager you're going to become 

430
00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:49,500
because it's going to make you 
approachable. 

431
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:53,100
It's going to keep You humble? 
And it's going to remind you 

432
00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:57,400
that you potentially could be in
their situation and you would 

433
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,700
want the same consideration as 
always. 

434
00:26:59,700 --> 00:27:03,600
Thank you so much for joining me
for another week of the podcast.

435
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,600
Make sure that you follow me on 
Instagram at HR Tracy clubhouse 

436
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,300
at HR. 
Tracy, you can get linked to all

437
00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:15,600
of my events and everything on 
my Instagram. 

438
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,200
Thank you so much. 
Don't forget to rate review And 

439
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,900
subscribe wherever you're 
listening and share it with 

440
00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:22,800
Someone who might like to hear 
it. 

441
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,900
Thank you so much. 
See you next week. 

442
00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:22,800
Someone who might like to hear 
it. 

443
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,900
Thank you so much. 
See you next week.