1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,600 As you know, I've been thinking about how we approach mental 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,640 health at work, especially as a mom of twins, struggling, 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,680 podcasting, working life in general. 4 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,320 And recently I know I've shared this with you. 5 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:14,600 I hit a wall balancing all of it and it's really helped me to 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,880 think about mental wealth. And this shift in mindset really 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,160 got me to explore some new tools to support my mental wealth and 8 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:23,800 magic mind. As you know, I've been working 9 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,440 with them and they reached out recently and asked me to drink 10 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,280 the mental performance shop for seven days straight to 11 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,479 experience the benefits. And that was easy to say yes to 12 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,120 because I drink it every day. But let me tell you that I think 13 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,280 I've shared this before. It has totally changed my 14 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,120 morning routines. I mean, I literally reach for 15 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,400 the mental performance drop before I even get my first cup 16 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,960 of coffee made. It's not only something that 17 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,320 I've found has provided me with the ability to feel really alert 18 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,280 and focused, but because it has a little bit of caffeine, less 19 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,600 caffeine than coffee fine. It really gives me like a boost 20 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,680 to start my day before I've kind of started my day. 21 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:09,800 And what I love too about it is that it's 1000% safe and it's 22 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,560 vegan and so, and it's also kosher certified. 23 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,440 And so all of that means a lot to me, but plus it's not a quick 24 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,920 fix. I really like this idea that 25 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,440 instead of relying on quick fixes, Magic Mind believes that 26 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,040 mental performance is tackled in the long term. 27 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,440 And if you've listened to me for the last four years, you know 28 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,040 that this is something that I think is really important. 29 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,720 And their caffeine that they do have is time release. 30 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:39,440 So rather than it, you know, kind of giving you that 31 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,800 immediate boost that some like energy drinks drinks might do 32 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,400 for you, it's not like that. It's not this charge up type of 33 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,200 drink or supplement. It's an enhancement for a 34 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,800 brilliant today, as they put it, and an even better tomorrow, 35 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,720 which I love. So if you're like me and you 36 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:01,000 want to invest in your mental wealth, Magic Mind is offering a 37 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:06,760 48% off discount on your first subscription or 20% off a one 38 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,280 time purchase with Code HUMAN HR 20 at checkout. 39 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,960 All you have to do is go to magicmind.com/humanHR and use 40 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,880 Code Human HR 20. That's magicmind.com/human HR 41 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:23,360 with Code Human HR 20 for 48% off your first subscription or 42 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,720 20% off your one time purchases. Get to your mental wealth today, 43 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,600 folks. I know I'm into it. 44 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,200 Welcome to the Bringing the Human back to Human Resources 45 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,520 podcast. I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've 46 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,960 spent my entire professional career in HR. 47 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,560 Each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people 48 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,560 and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create 49 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,520 meaningful outcomes. Listen in as I share my own 50 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,360 experiences, challenge the status quo, and chat with guests 51 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,360 from various industries about our mission to bring the human 52 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,360 back to human resources. Hi everyone, welcome back to the 53 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:57,920 podcast. Thank you so much for being here 54 00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:00,080 for another week. Don't forget to rate, review, 55 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,000 and subscribe because if you're not subscribed, what are you 56 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,640 doing? Thank you so much for being 57 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:08,400 here. As you know, if you've been a 58 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,080 listener of my podcast for a while, you will already know 59 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,360 that relationships are something that I would say are really, 60 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,960 really important to me. And actually, they've been 61 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,640 extremely critical to the success of my own career and my 62 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:24,840 business as well. So I'm really excited to welcome 63 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,600 Brad Engler to the podcast and let me tell you a little bit 64 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:31,880 about Brad before we let Brad do all of the talking. 65 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,120 He is an author, advisor, and technologist with over 40 years 66 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,360 of experience in the private and public sectors. 67 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,080 Accenture for 22 years, including ten years as a 68 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,160 partner, and then at the University of Texas at Austin 69 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,480 for eight years, including seven years as the Chief Information 70 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,320 Officer. His recent book, Spheres of 71 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,040 Influence, How to Create and Nurture Authentic Business 72 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,400 Relationships, offers a practical guide to help emerging 73 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,160 and established leaders develop and perfect the critical, hard 74 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,400 skill of building effective and lasting professional 75 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,520 relationships. Which is why I am so enthused 76 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,760 for our discussion today. Because it is. 77 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,960 This is literally the most critical, if you ask me, the 78 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,400 most critical part of what can make or break someone's 79 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,720 experience and success. So welcome, Brad. 80 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,480 Thank you. Thanks for inviting me. 81 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,040 Oh my gosh, of course. And the listeners won't know 82 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,520 this, but we have tried a few times already to record, but 83 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:32,160 between like basically an Arctic blast in the South and various 84 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,280 challenges on my end, we are finally getting to record, which 85 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,720 is really nice. Sometimes the long-awaited 86 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,440 recording makes it all the more fun. 87 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,000 But as I kind of mentioned at the top of our session here, 88 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,240 relationships that I find to be really important. 89 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:48,600 And so I'd love to hear from you. 90 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,960 Given that relationships are also really important to you, 91 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:58,560 what kind of inspiration or influence did you have that led 92 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,000 to you writing spheres of influence? 93 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,680 Well, I was very fortunate over many years to have really good 94 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:11,400 mentors. And at the firm, from day one, 95 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,240 they taught you that the people you're working with, your 96 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:21,200 clients, your peers, someday maybe your boss maybe hiring you 97 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,320 to do something and, or maybe peers. 98 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:29,920 And the person who started with me 40 years ago became the chief 99 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,680 information officer of a large state agency the same year I 100 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,440 became the chief information officer at the university. 101 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:42,280 And so it just came true. And as a executive in the firm 102 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,840 or at all levels, you not only had a mentor, but you had 103 00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:49,320 mentees. And it was just built into the 104 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:54,760 culture that training and mentorship was a core value. 105 00:05:55,320 --> 00:06:02,560 And, you know, when I got to the university, I tried to help the 106 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,080 organization create those same skills. 107 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,440 Not hide in the ivory tower, but get out and meet with customers, 108 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:13,080 meet with their peers. And, you know, I mentored two or 109 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:14,800 three people. I still do that. 110 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,240 But I didn't feel that would scale, and so I wanted to 111 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,880 capture all these stories and so I could share it with a wider 112 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:23,760 audience. And that was really the genesis 113 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,360 for writing the book. That's amazing. 114 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:31,920 I think when I think about like my takeaways from spheres of 115 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:37,520 influence, what really stood out to me was obviously the spheres 116 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,880 that there are these internal and external spheres. 117 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,040 Of course, I mean, there's a visual there for a reason, but 118 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:48,080 also some of those core principles, especially when we 119 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,200 think of like, I have some notes here, goals and aspirations of 120 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:56,560 others, managing expectations, clearly caring about the success 121 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,440 of others. Like these are things that maybe 122 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,280 for some it's like, OK, yeah, fundamental, got it. 123 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,760 But actually it's really important to make note of it 124 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,800 because so much of these, so many of these things are not 125 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:15,160 happening day-to-day. And I'm curious, were these core 126 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,760 principles that, you know, were certainly felt throughout the 127 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,920 book? Were they something that you 128 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,040 learned through your own experiences, or were they things 129 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:29,040 that you felt you lacked from leaders or lacked from peers? 130 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,680 Or was it just kind of, you know, going through the motions 131 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,920 of your experiences and your takeaways? 132 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,200 Well, let's talk about the internal sphere. 133 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:44,760 So first is your boss and I learned that you can't wait for 134 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:49,000 your boss to help guide you. Sometimes you just have to ask 135 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,640 what are their goals and aspirations and it's OK to ask. 136 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,080 In fact, when I was the boss, I welcomed a discussion with my 137 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,800 direct reports of what are your goals, how can I help you and 138 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,400 setting expectations. I was bad at that in the 139 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:10,360 beginning of my career. I got much better later and and 140 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:15,120 then third, genuinely caring. When I got to the university, I 141 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:20,600 met with this professor who I'd known 15 years prior, crusty 40 142 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,760 year professor. And I said, give me some advice. 143 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,520 You guys get out of the office and tell people you give a damn. 144 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,880 And that was the best advice because you're not going to 145 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,559 build relationships hiding behind a screen in your office 146 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,600 that's. So true. 147 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:41,200 And I remember when you and I first spoke that that last point 148 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,800 you made in terms of the advice that you received as far as like 149 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,600 just get out there, like get out from behind the desk and like 150 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:52,120 talk to the people with whom you need to talk to the. 151 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,600 It really made me reflect on my own experience, especially back 152 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:02,520 in my retail days, because when, whenever I was in retail, you 153 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,440 know, there were always these roles like leader on duty, 154 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,280 manager on duty, right? And, and especially being in HR, 155 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,640 you kind of have those roles in retail. 156 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,040 And then you also, if you're working in a store like I was 157 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,720 for many years, you also have to be a manager on duty just like 158 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,240 any other sales or department manager. 159 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:26,200 And one of the things that I was really passionate about was 160 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:31,040 being on the floor with the team because that as an HR person, 161 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,560 like that's where you get you, that's where you build the 162 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:36,440 relationships, that's where you get all of your information. 163 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,280 It's where you have the most fun. 164 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,240 It's also where you find out things that you might need to 165 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,680 find out in order to solve some problems also. 166 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,080 So I think that advice is so well stated and it's kind of 167 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,120 Evergreen. Like it doesn't matter what 168 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,000 industry you're in, what job you have, have it really just it's 169 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,080 agnostic to all of that. That's right. 170 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:02,320 You know, I learned long ago to go to people's offices to meet 171 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,120 with them so I would not have them come to me and, you know, 172 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,120 come to the ivory tower. So my all my direct reports at 173 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,640 the university, I would go to their office. 174 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,440 Well why would I do that? One, I get to rock, walk across 175 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:20,000 campus and get the energy of the campus. 2 I bump into customers 176 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,680 and I bump into my peers. 3 Their team sees me coming to 177 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:29,600 their boss every week at like clockwork trying to help their 178 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,800 boss be successful. So it's showing the flag, 179 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,680 showing the support. And you know, same thing with 180 00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:39,920 your customers and your peers. One of my peers at the 181 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,240 university was in charge of public safety. 182 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,400 Well, it wasn't if someone would go wrong, it's when it would go 183 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,840 wrong. And over my eight years, we had 184 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,240 a bomb scare, we had a shooting, we had a murder, you know, so 185 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,840 we, we had 100,000 people in the football stadium every Saturday 186 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,960 in the fall. But I would meet with my peer 187 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,720 every month and we would talk about what's going well, what's 188 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,520 coming up, what could we do better. 189 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,160 And then once a year, we get our teams together and we practice. 190 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,840 What happens if there's an ice storm? 191 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:13,760 What happens if there's a hurricane? 192 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,880 What happens if the power goes out? 193 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,280 Lo and behold, a year later, the power went out. 194 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,680 And we, we generate our own power and back up by the city. 195 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:27,800 But they both went out and but we were prepared. 196 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,880 And the bomb scare, I was out on the mall with my phone. 197 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,360 Well, all my computer and everything in the office. 198 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,560 But we had a standard operating procedure. 199 00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:42,200 We all got on a conference bridge and we that's connected 200 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,400 to the executive leaders. And so we basically managed the 201 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,680 whole issue out in the mall with my phone. 202 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:56,280 Oh my gosh, she it's like poem for 2025 almost it's like, you 203 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,200 know, everything is done by the phone. 204 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,200 Everything that we have the capability of doing is in our 205 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:03,440 hands. I mean, it's amazing. 206 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,880 I obviously we don't ever want to deal with things like that, 207 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:13,200 but my take away from your story is, is that preparation is not 208 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,840 only key, but actually, to be frank, my first reaction was 209 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,120 like, man, Brad's probably an amazing peer. 210 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,160 That was actually what was going through my head when you were 211 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,400 saying that. Because, you know, there, there 212 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,480 are times where we work with folks who aren't so 213 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,200 collaborative or aren't, you know, really focused on just 214 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:36,000 working as a team and working together and getting, you know, 215 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,400 moving the needle together. And it's the Co workers or the 216 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:44,560 peers who do that and who care about that or care about the 217 00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:47,880 success of others who are like the best people to work with. 218 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,640 I'm sure everyone is thinking about someone or just really 219 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,560 wishing that they could work with you one of the other. 220 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,760 Well, I asked my direct reports to also meet with their peers 221 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,440 across campus. So you know, so 7 direct 222 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:06,000 reports, we all had about 10 peer relationships and every 223 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,360 week we would get together and talk about what did, what did 224 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,760 you hear how any rumours out there? 225 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,320 And, and you don't hear rumours if you're in your office, you 226 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,320 know, so I had a you don't know what the. 227 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,880 Streets are saying. So I had a rumour from my public 228 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,960 safety guy who said I heard a rumor that you don't have enough 229 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,320 diesel in the generators at the data center. 230 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,400 And I said, you know, that's a darn good rumor. 231 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,200 I'll go check. It turned out the generators 232 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,080 from the natural gas. So it was, Oh my God, there's 233 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,560 great rumor though. But he was able to snuff it out 234 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:41,760 immediately, right? And, and we would help each 235 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,760 other that way. My direct reports would go meet 236 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,200 with their peers. And it was like a nervous 237 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,120 system, you know, you get feedback, two way communication. 238 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:55,600 I had a woman who worked for me who reminded me when she read 239 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,120 the manuscript of the time I forced her to go meet with the 240 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,240 IT director in a department. And she said, I thought you were 241 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:04,720 crazy. They hate us. 242 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,680 And I said, well, better to be in them in the tent than outside 243 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:13,200 the tent throwing rocks at us. And I would meet with her, you 244 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,520 know, the department chair. So there were reasons they hated 245 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,880 us. There's some bad behavior before 246 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,200 I came in and they had a litany of things that went wrong. 247 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:29,360 So we just apologized, said we'll we'll not do that again. 248 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:35,320 And she over nine months, every month met with this other woman. 249 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,680 And as we got better and more predictable, guess what? 250 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,320 That person became an advocate for us. 251 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,360 And when she became an advocate, her boss became an advocate. 252 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,000 So it went from hating us to being an advocate. 253 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,080 But she thought I was crazy. No, You know, it actually makes 254 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,040 me think of some of my own experiences. 255 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:01,200 But sometimes I think leaders think that that process of 256 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,280 changing someone's perception can be a very long process. 257 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,600 But actually it doesn't have to be, because once you say you're 258 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,400 going to do something and then you actually do it and you do it 259 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,240 again and you do it again and you do it again and you just 260 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:14,960 keep doing it. Yeah. 261 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,000 And you have the consistency of following through on what you've 262 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,360 said you're set out to do. People then trust you. 263 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:26,280 And that that establishment of trust is obviously a core tenant 264 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,760 in relationships. And you've you touch on that 265 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,440 throughout your book also. And kind of coming back to this 266 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,600 internal sphere of influence, You mentioned already 267 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,400 relationship with the boss, relationships with other, you 268 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,760 know, executive leaders, and then also with direct reports. 269 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,840 And a big part of that, especially the relationship with 270 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:50,000 direct reports that I at least took away was this importance on 271 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,000 fostering trust and transparency. 272 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:57,000 And so when I think about shifting perceptions, I was just 273 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,720 speaking with someone about how leaders, whether they want to 274 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,280 acknowledge it or not, can, can and do make or break people's 275 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,360 experiences in their careers. If someone has an amazing leader 276 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,720 when they first start out, that's something that sets them. 277 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,240 I mean, they are so lucky. That sets them apart from a lot 278 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,560 of people from their first experiences and work and for the 279 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,400 rest of their career they think about that person. 280 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,960 On contrary. If someone has as a leader that 281 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,160 maybe doesn't have their best interests in mind or any of 282 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,800 these core principles that we've already kind of talked about 283 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,240 similarly that stays with people. 284 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,520 I've, I'm sure you've also spoken with people who are like, 285 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,640 I had a terrible leader and it's like 20 years ago, they told me 286 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,200 and they just don't, it's not that they don't get over it, 287 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,160 it's that it had such an impact on them. 288 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,360 And so when I think about again, like, you know, trust and 289 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,720 transparency, leaders really need to think about the impact 290 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,120 and the influence that they have. 291 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,720 And they have to, they have to acknowledge that they are not 292 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,360 the same as everyone else. They have this role now where 293 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,640 they're leading people and they have to assume that 294 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,560 responsibility and treat it with care, right? 295 00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:06,079 Well, they need to walk the walk. 296 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:10,119 So, you know, in IT world you could work 24 hours a day. 297 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:16,040 I mean, there's no end to it, but we established norms and 298 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,880 values for the organization. And then I would not respond to 299 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,480 emails after business hours. I would not. 300 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,000 I would go on vacation. I would do training. 301 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,040 I would make sure they did training, make sure they did 302 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,720 their emails. If someone skipped orientation, 303 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:33,760 we'd find them and get them into orientation. 304 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,520 You know, it's like no exception. 305 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,560 But one of our values was family first. 306 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:40,000 Well, why? Why? 307 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,280 Why did we do that? Well, I live in Austin, TX, lot 308 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,200 of high tech here. All the big tech firms are here. 309 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,640 I cannot compete on salary, but what I can compete on isn't, you 310 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,360 know, you work an 8 hour day and then go home, see the family. 311 00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:01,000 So I had this network engineer and he was got a big offer from 312 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,640 a startup and a lot of money, equity, blah blah blah. 313 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,960 They would feed him, do his dry cleaning. 314 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,920 And I said, look, I don't say this for everybody, but if you 315 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,080 don't like it, you can come back. 316 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:18,840 And literally 2 weeks later he calls and he goes, this place is 317 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,760 a zoo. They feed me and do my dry 318 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,440 cleaning because I never go home. 319 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,200 I took the job to help my family, but I don't see my 320 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,960 family anymore. Can I come back? 321 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,560 It's like, of course you can. And he's still there 15 years 322 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,800 later. Wow, you know, it's when you 323 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,200 started to say that they were promising food and dry cleaning. 324 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,480 I already knew where you're going with that because you 325 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,600 know, there's companies always hopefully offer really great 326 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,480 benefits, but companies that are offering benefits like that are 327 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:55,360 probably really trying to ensure that people feel like working 328 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:57,520 there is worth it. Like they had, you know, 329 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,080 company. And, and it's not to say that 330 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:04,320 it's bad, like working in a, a zoo, literal or figuratively is 331 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,200 not necessarily a bad thing. It's just like where it kind of 332 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,520 depends on where someone is in their lives. 333 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,120 Like if someone has a family, that's probably not going to 334 00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:16,120 really be a match for them. Whereas if someone is like, you 335 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:18,520 know, just trying to get as much experience under their belt, 336 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,840 maybe they're single, maybe they're not, maybe they really 337 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,680 don't mind not being home a lot. I mean, it kind of depends, but 338 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,280 those things I think play a big role. 339 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,960 And it's interesting because I think that as we grow in our 340 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:36,520 careers and we gain additional experience and wisdom, if you 341 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:41,360 will, these are things that we become aware of as we grow and 342 00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:45,000 as our lives do change or we go through different milestones or 343 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,240 life changes. So, but I think it's a testament 344 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,240 to your leadership actually that he wanted to, that he did come 345 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,000 back, not not just that he wanted to come back, but that he 346 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,080 actually did. Very difficult safe asking, you 347 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,400 know, he, he was comfortable asking on the setting 348 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,760 expectations. I had a situation with a 349 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:12,960 customer where large university, they had a big program that they 350 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,320 wanted me to lead and it was in October and I said to the 351 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,880 Provost and CFO, I'd love to help you guys. 352 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,920 However, in the summer, I have a long-awaited vacation to 353 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,240 Australia. And I was supposed to go last 354 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,280 year, but work cancelled. So we have the passports for the 355 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,680 family, we have the tickets. So I need to go for three weeks 356 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,280 in June. And they're like, OK, no 357 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,640 problem. And we got to April, made a big 358 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,800 milestone achievement. So yay, things were going 359 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,840 clickety clack. And then in May we're meeting 360 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,440 with the president, which we meet every month. 361 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,800 And the President, I said, I just wanted to remind you as I 362 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,000 have the last three months and in June, I'll be going to 363 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,720 Australia and his hand started shaking and I'm in slow motion 364 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:08,520 canceling the vacation. And the CFO and Provost, Brad, 365 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,720 wait a minute, hold on, Mr. President. 366 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:18,000 When Brad joined us in October, we agreed that we would let him 367 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,160 go on this vacation. Diane's in charge. 368 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,920 When he's gone, he says this is a good time to go. 369 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:30,000 We ship a polar commitment customer supporting my vacation. 370 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,080 Awesome. And 10 years later, I'm having 371 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,800 dinner with his wife and and my wife and we talked about that 372 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,360 story and he goes while you were gone. 373 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:46,880 We were scared to death, but they upheld their commitment. 374 00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:51,400 Yeah, I love that. I mean, commitment is a big 375 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,280 deal. And this is the same kind of 376 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,720 thing that underpins how you change perception and how you 377 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,720 actually change cultures is through mutual commitment, 378 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,040 mutual ownership. And I love that. 379 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,960 I I love that you were like, oh crap, I'm not going to 380 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,960 Australia. My wife is going to hate me. 381 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,520 What am I, I'm going to do now because like, because I know 382 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,760 that I have, I've been there. I know other listeners have been 383 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,320 there where you're like, I, I talked about it already. 384 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,560 They said I could go. Their reaction is concerning. 385 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,920 I'm going to have to cancel. I'm really annoyed. 386 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:28,520 My partner's going to be annoyed. 387 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,920 And for you to be able to just, you know, woosa and be able to 388 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,720 get the, the relief that, you know, they made this commitment 389 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,720 to you. They trust that you've managed 390 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,200 your, you know, quote, UN quote business well enough to be able 391 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,600 to rely on your team and others who continue to, you know, keep 392 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,720 the ball rolling. And for what it's worth, I think 393 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,560 also leaders who maybe because there are certainly leaders who 394 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:58,080 break those commitments or you know, are so deeply afraid when 395 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,080 someone does go on vacation that even if it comes from a good 396 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,360 place, because they value that person's effort so much. 397 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,760 It really does a disservice to the person who is going on 398 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,600 vacation or needs to go on a leave or whatever it is. 399 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,760 And. Well, I got, I got better. 400 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,440 I got better at it later in my career, yeah. 401 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,240 Exactly, exactly. It's like we have to we have to 402 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,320 set a standard that people need to prioritize their time as 403 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,840 well. And at the end of the day, like, 404 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,120 has a company ever stopped or an organization ever stopped 405 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:35,400 running when someone goes on vacation? 406 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:36,840 It's not, of course not. Right. 407 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,880 Like never. Yeah, literally never. 408 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,640 Well, I had, I had two phrases I used through the book, which is 409 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:47,120 1 is use your words. So if you want something, you 410 00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:51,080 need to tell people that. And the other was people are not 411 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,160 mind readers. So as if you're a boss, you 412 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,880 can't read people's mind if they don't tell you, you don't know. 413 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:02,000 So you need to. So just the sending and managing 414 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,040 expectation very simple. But if you if you don't do it, 415 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,800 then you'll be wrapped around the axle the whole time. 416 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,480 I had a boss who is a type A boss. 417 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,160 Everything was urgent, urgent and I was trying to leave one 418 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,080 evening to have dinner with my wife and I. 419 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,520 The phone call phone rings literally at 5:00. 420 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,400 Pick it up. It's the boss, the partner, and 421 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,280 she's a type A personality. I need a white paper, a white 422 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:35,000 paper and it I literally said whoa. 423 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,800 I didn't say no because no would set her off like a rocket. 424 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,920 I just said whoa. And I said, well, when do you 425 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,280 need this white paper? Let me check my calendar. 426 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,440 I need it in two weeks. Sounded like overnight, you 427 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:52,440 know? Yeah, right. 428 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,840 How many pages do you, should this white paper be 03 pages? 429 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,760 I was thinking 10. Do you have an example of a 430 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,600 white paper that I could use? Yeah. 431 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,120 Yeah, I asked David. I did it on XYZ Corporation 10 432 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,040 years ago. Well, guess what? 433 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:12,960 I went home now. Before I before I learned to say 434 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,960 whoa, I would have stayed up all night. 435 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:20,320 OOP cancelled dinner, stayed up all night, delivered A10 page 436 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:25,840 paper and she yelled at me. But instead I got some mental 437 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,960 space and time just to really clearly understand. 438 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,800 So the next day I gave it to one of my staff persons. 439 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,040 So they said you have 10 days to work on this and we delivered it 440 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,160 early. That's amazing. 441 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,960 It's a great story. And when I think about that, 442 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:49,120 it's like you, I can only imagine, actually, I can't 443 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:53,240 imagine the, the emotional impact if you were to do all of 444 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,000 that work without really understanding the clear 445 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,160 expectations. Because in this, in this 446 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,880 situation, you're also managing up, which is a very important 447 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,200 skill for those listening. The better you can manage up, 448 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,640 the, the much happier you'll be, I think in your careers. 449 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,440 But it's a hard skill, of course, but not only are you 450 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,000 managing up, but the, the emotional impact that was the 451 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,200 potential emotional impact. I should say in the event that 452 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,240 you did deliver A10 page paper overnight and you cancelled 453 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,800 dinner, right? Just for it to then not be what 454 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,800 that person wants or needs. At that point, you're so 455 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,240 dissatisfied because you're like, I spent all of my time. 456 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:36,720 I, I cancelled all these things and while that type of 457 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,560 commitment also is great and work to really have a drive to 458 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:45,240 achieve and deliver on on standards and expectations. 459 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,440 What I love that you shared is that you took a moment, you 460 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,480 didn't say no, you said well, and you took a moment to really 461 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,800 ask questions. And this is the same, you know, 462 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,200 it goes both ways because this is the same thing that I try to, 463 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,160 as a call to action to leaders, try to ask them all the time, 464 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,680 like rather than jumping to assumptions or conclusions to 465 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,680 understand how do we ask questions before coming to 466 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,120 conclusions on things. And so with projects, when 467 00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:15,680 you're the recipient of something of something to work 468 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,560 on, it's kind of the same thing where asking clarifying 469 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,800 questions can save you a lot of time. 470 00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:26,920 So I, I had a direct report who reminded me that I would often 471 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,240 slow her down. She was zipping to the 472 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,120 conclusion before she actually understood what the problem was. 473 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,040 And I would, and it cursed, prove her a little crazy. 474 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,240 And I was like, let's, there's no rush. 475 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,040 Took us 40 years to get this way. 476 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:49,160 Another day doesn't matter. And you know, by just slowing 477 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,320 down and really understanding what the issues are, sometimes 478 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,840 you don't have to do anything. It works itself out, but she 479 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,600 said she appreciated that I pulled her back from just 480 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,520 running straight into the the fire. 481 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,880 Right, I was going to say that sounds like me. 482 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,280 Was I your direct report that you're talking to? 483 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:15,040 Because my, my boss recently, you know, we talked about how 484 00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:18,600 fast I move. And so this is something like 485 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,640 even when I was reading, you know, spheres of influence, I 486 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,480 was really learning a lot about myself. 487 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,960 And even as I've just talked about before that, you know, 488 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,920 asking questions before jumping to conclusions, even with the 489 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,160 best intentions, like someone like me who is type A and very 490 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,840 fast in momentum and movement and getting things done. 491 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,400 It's like when you ask questions, you actually you 492 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,920 just, you can still move fast, but you can move fast in a much 493 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,240 more effective and much more accurate. 494 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,200 Way you don't want to be an unguided missile. 495 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,000 No, that's that's. Definitely true. 496 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,840 So I had AI had a guy who a guy, you know, he shared a story with 497 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,880 me. He goes, I was working for this 498 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,640 company and all of a sudden my boss started kind of boxing me 499 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,440 out of meetings and not listening to me. 500 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:13,200 And you know, after about 3 weeks I got some time on the 501 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,240 calendar and I said, did I do something wrong? 502 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,280 And the boss just looked up and said, oh, I have trouble at 503 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,360 home. I didn't realize it was 504 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:28,440 affecting me. And he said, did I do the right 505 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,560 thing? I said, yes, you had the courage 506 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,440 to ask. You didn't quit. 507 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,640 You didn't suffer. You know, you had the courage to 508 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,120 actually ask. And he said it improved 509 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,560 dramatically right after that. I'm sure, I'm sure. 510 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,160 And you know, for that, that manager too, it like creates a 511 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,720 bit of a safe space for them. And there's like mutual 512 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,360 vulnerability because the the person who's like this is 513 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,280 happening and I don't really love it is obviously managing up 514 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,880 there, but is also being vulnerable to your point and 515 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,360 courageous in addressing something that they weren't 516 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,400 really happy about. And this does, I think, play a 517 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,200 pretty significant role in the external spheres of influence, 518 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,080 which we haven't talked about much just yet. 519 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,800 We a little bit, but you know, that's customer relationships 520 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,520 and peer and vendor relationships. 521 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,760 And that I think sometimes, at least from what I've seen, I'm 522 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,920 curious to hear your thoughts. Sometimes I think that those 523 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,920 relationships are harder in some ways because you don't 524 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,000 necessarily feel that you can createspace it. 525 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,680 Maybe it's a little bit harder to be courageous because you're 526 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,160 afraid of the professional pressure. 527 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,000 Maybe if especially in a maybe a sales environment where a 528 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,400 customer satisfaction actually has a huge financial influence 529 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,280 and that is the case in probably any industry. 530 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,600 But what are your thoughts on on that and how people can 531 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,000 prioritize their customers needs and deliver on those 532 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:06,480 expectations while also maintaining their their values 533 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,320 and their, you know, courageousness in their own 534 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,240 right? So the keyword you used was 535 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,400 prioritized. Not all customers are equal and 536 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,400 you need to step back periodically and say who are my 537 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,640 best customers and how can I help them be more successful? 538 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:29,160 Accenture 80 to 90% of the customers are repeat customers. 539 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,240 Well, why is that? Because they it, they were 540 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,040 successful in the past and they want to be successful. 541 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,680 But I had some customers who didn't really want a partnership 542 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,760 and they had kind of let's extract stuff from the vendor. 543 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,000 In fact, it's like a Kabuki theater. 544 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,120 Every week she would ask me for free stuff and I said, stop 545 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,080 asking me for free stuff. I don't do free stuff. 546 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,120 I'd be happy to do a change order. 547 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,760 And at the end, because her management wanted her to do 548 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,640 that. I mean, she didn't really want 549 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,360 to do it, but management said go get free stuff out of our 550 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,640 vendors. And at the end of the project I 551 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,240 said I'm never working for you again. 552 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,200 And she goes, I don't blame. You she's like. 553 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,320 I wouldn't either. And we had a good laugh over 554 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,920 that. And then I had a on the vendor 555 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,120 side. Not all your vendors are equal. 556 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,880 We spent 10s of millions of dollars at the university. 557 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,040 Well, who are your most important vendors? 558 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,960 Just look at where you're spending and then build those 559 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,440 relationships. So network computer learning 560 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,240 management system. So in a university rely on the 561 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,800 learning management system. We had an old buggy learning 562 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,760 management system that the vendor only showed up once a 563 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,320 year to get the check, the maintenance check, which was 10% 564 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,600 more than the prior year. They just didn't care. 565 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,640 Of course they didn't. They took it, took it for 566 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,480 granted because they thought the switching costs would be too 567 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,440 much. Yeah, 54,000 students, 4000 568 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,920 faculty, 21 thousand staff. Yeah, it is hard to switch. 569 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,760 But the students hated the vendor, the product. 570 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,800 It was clunky and slow. Faculty didn't like it. 571 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,400 So we went out to the market, looked at all the learning 572 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,360 management systems, picked a modern, new, more secure 573 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,560 learning management system unanimously endorsed by the 574 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,440 faculty and staff committee. And it took us two years, but we 575 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,480 transitioned to that new platform which has been in place 576 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,680 now for 10 years. And I was so happy to say 577 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,120 sayonara to that vendor who just didn't care. 578 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,000 Yeah, that's like, that's probably what's the word I'm 579 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,600 thinking of, like extremely gratifying. 580 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,440 Took two years. Cathartic, maybe. 581 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,720 Well, and the Vice President for Sales of the company would reach 582 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,240 out to me periodically and ask me how it's going. 583 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:13,440 I mean that's customer care and and some things we're so big 584 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,480 that they had to change the product to work in our size 585 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,320 institution. Well, they went on, they made 586 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,159 those changes and went on to sell it to a lot of other 587 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,960 research one universities. So it was mutually beneficial. 588 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:27,639 Right. Amazing. 589 00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:29,520 I love that. And I love the term customer 590 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,520 care rather than customer service because service is so 591 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,760 transactional. Customer care is more about the 592 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,360 relationship. I I love that. 593 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,400 And and you're right about the prioritizing and when I think 594 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:46,280 about like HR leaders, you know, we often at least I am familiar 595 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,280 with this phrasing, we talk about internal and external 596 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,040 customer. So the internal customer are all 597 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,440 of the employees and the external customer are the people 598 00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:00,120 or customers who our internal customers are affecting or 599 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,440 impacting or working with. And when I think about our role 600 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,840 as HR leaders or really any business leader for that matter, 601 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:12,640 I do think that there is a customer care initiative there. 602 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,240 Like if we are not answering someone's questions in a timely 603 00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:20,440 manner, we're not approachable, we're not really solving 604 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,680 problems or interested in solving problems or, you know, 605 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,840 just all those stigmas that we hear about HR leaders. 606 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,200 If we're doing any of that stuff, we're not really 607 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,560 fulfilling the needs of our internal customer. 608 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,840 So I love something that I really love about your books, 609 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,600 Spheres of Influence is that the these concepts can really be 610 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,160 applied regardless of where someone works within an 611 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:47,040 organization and also regardless of what industry they're. 612 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,920 In and internal as well as external customers, you know 613 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,760 it's you know, understanding goals and aspirations, setting 614 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,320 and managing expectations and genuinely caring applies to all 615 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,960 those relationships. Absolutely. 616 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,840 And with that, I mean, I have taken up a significant amount of 617 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:10,320 your time and I, I think that you and I both could probably 618 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:15,000 talk about relationships and the importance of these really 619 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,640 strong, trusting and mutually supportive relationships 620 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,880 probably for another 40 minutes. But in the interest of time, I 621 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,360 would love for you to maybe share with the listeners where 622 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,360 they can connect with you, where they can read spheres of 623 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,120 influence and where they can, you know, maybe learn more about 624 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,960 how they can influence their own environments and their own 625 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,280 experiences. I'm going to send you a 626 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,600 customized link that will, when they click on it, will take them 627 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,160 to a free sample of the book. It will also have a second tab 628 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,080 to find how to buy the book. There's ebook, audiobook, and 629 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,040 then third how to schedule time on my calendar. 630 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,480 So I will send that right after this. 631 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,560 Amazing. And we'll make sure that those 632 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,440 are that that link, excuse me, is in the show notes so that 633 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,560 everyone can very easily just click and not have to worry 634 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,640 about a thing. Make it nice and simple over 635 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,200 here. But Brad, thank you so much and 636 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,080 thank you for writing a book that I think really does a very 637 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,600 good job talking about the impact and and the necessity of 638 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,160 having these types of relationships and the focus on 639 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,040 these types of relationships. So thank you so much. 640 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,720 Oh, you're welcome. Hey, just before you go, don't 641 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:26,560 forget to subscribe to the show so that you are the 1st 1st to 642 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,280 hear when an episode drops each week and maybe leave a five star 643 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,880 review and a comment about how much you loved this episode. 644 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,640 Plus, if you have someone in mind who would really enjoy this 645 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,280 episode, make sure you share it with them. 646 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,200 Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you next week.