1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,320 You know how every home has that one spot, the place you think 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,040 about throughout the day where you can finally exhale? 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,400 For me, it's my bed. But here's The funny thing, It's 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,720 not just my bed anymore. Be honest. 5 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:12,840 Who in your house tries to sneak into your bed the most? 6 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,520 At mine, it's a toss up between my husband and my daughters. 7 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:18,680 And I get it. Like, it's technically my 8 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:20,600 husband's bed too, but it's my bed, you know? 9 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:22,800 But I get it. Because of the. 10 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,400 Cozy Earth sheets and I have the silk comforter and the linen 11 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,200 duvet cover on the silk comforter. 12 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,119 It's like being the VIP lounge of the house. 13 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:34,680 It's like sleeping on a cloud and being wrapped in a cloud 14 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,000 hug. And I just love it so much. 15 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,760 In fact, as I'm sharing this with you, I want to go and lie 16 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,720 in bed right now. Their sheets, as I've shared 17 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,600 with you, are made from viscose from bamboo, and they naturally 18 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,160 Wick away heat and moisture. So you sleep several. 19 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:50,560 Degrees cooler. That means even on those nights 20 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,880 when it feels impossible to get comfortable, I actually wake up 21 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,000 refreshed. Thank goodness, because I need 22 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,160 to wake up feeling that way. And it's not just. 23 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,160 The blanket of course you can get any of their blankets like 24 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,120 the bubble cuddle blanket or as I've shared, I have the silk 25 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:06,400 comforter. It's a. 26 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:07,760 Really true. Full. 27 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,560 On experience, the Bubble Cuddle blanket in fact has such a plush 28 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,840 texture and mid weight feel that it's perfect for curling up in 29 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,480 the bedroom or draped across the couch as a cozy centerpiece for 30 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,800 all of your guests. And we're approaching fall. 31 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,480 Which is my favorite season and then winter is my second 32 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,280 favorite season. So that means that it is the 33 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:30,400 perfect time to cozy if I, as I like to say, your homes. 34 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,400 And honestly, it makes those mornings when you just can't get 35 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,640 out of bed even harder. And that's kind of the point 36 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,480 when life feels stressful. That's the spot I can't wait to 37 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,680 retreat to. My cozy earth bed feels 38 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,640 different. It's where my comfort and 39 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,000 comfort for my family lives. And once you try it, I guarantee 40 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,800 you, you'll never want to go back. 41 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,520 The best part, of course is that there is 0 risk. 42 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,360 You get a 100 night sleep trial. So if you don't love it, you can 43 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,760 send it back, though I promise you won't want to. 44 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,600 There is also a 10 your warranty because. 45 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,080 Once you feel this level of comfort. 46 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,920 You want it to last. So do yourself a favor, head to 47 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,800 cozyearth.com and use my code HUMAN HR for 40% off. 48 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,560 And if you get a post purchase survey, let them know that you 49 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,039 heard about Cozy Earth right here. 50 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,000 Because your bed should be more than just a place to sleep, it 51 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,360 should be your happy place too. Cozy Earth makes that possible. 52 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,880 Welcome to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources 53 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,200 podcast. I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've 54 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,640 spent my entire professional career in HR. 55 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,240 Each week, we'll explore the delicate balance between people 56 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,240 and business with the aim to reconnect the two and create 57 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,120 meaningful outcomes. Listen in as I share my own 58 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,960 experiences, challenge the status quo, and chat with guests 59 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,960 from various industries about our mission to bring the human 60 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,080 back to human resources. Hi, everyone. 61 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,480 Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here 62 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,920 for another week. This week we're going to be 63 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:52,280 talking about a fairly heavier topic for the podcast. 64 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,880 It's something that, you know, we'll be talking about mental 65 00:02:54,880 --> 00:03:00,960 health and we will likely get into the topic of prevention of 66 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,240 suicide because tomorrow is actually World Suicide 67 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,560 Prevention Day. So by the time this podcast 68 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,000 comes out, it will be ahead of that. 69 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,280 And really in the month of September, which is the month of 70 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,920 world suicide prevention. And so if this content is 71 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,120 triggering for you or something that could be upsetting, this is 72 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,120 just basically a trigger warning for you. 73 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,560 But we are going to be talking about, and when I say we, it's 74 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,880 because I have an esteemed guest with me who I'll introduce you 75 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,520 to in a moment. But but we are going to be 76 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:38,040 talking about how HR professionals can really think 77 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:39,840 about mental health in the workplace differently. 78 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,120 So it's not, it's certainly not something that I hope that you 79 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,960 turn away from. I hope that you really dial in 80 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:50,120 and take a lot of advice and insights away from this 81 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,160 conversation and appreciate that you are here listening to this 82 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,240 episode. So without further ado, I'll 83 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,120 introduce you to my esteemed guests that I had already shared 84 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,280 and that is Matthew Megson, who has spent 21 years working in HR 85 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,680 in several different sectors, including manufacturing, 86 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,480 government, retail and not-for-profit. 87 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,640 In all of his roles, Matthew was responsible for the return to 88 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,280 work and accommodation process and worked with the 89 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,760 organizations and staff to accommodate mental health 90 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,800 struggles. In addition to HR, Matthew has 91 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,000 lived with bipolar disorder which has caused its own 92 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,480 workplace accommodation issues. Sadly, Matthew has been 93 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,840 terminated on 2 separate occasions almost immediately 94 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:31,080 following disclosure and asking for support. 95 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,600 Both the HR and personal experience LED Matthew to see a 96 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,200 gap where HR could use specific strategies to help accommodate 97 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,440 staff, and accommodation analyzed was then created. 98 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,960 So now Matthew leans into mental health as a founding member of 99 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,320 the Bipolar Peer Group, an international online support 100 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,320 group, and is continuing his education and mental health with 101 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,800 a Master's degree in Counseling and psychotherapy. 102 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,480 Matthew, thank you so much for being here, and thank you for so 103 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,760 openly sharing your own story. Thank you so much, Tracy. 104 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:02,520 I look forward to this conversation. 105 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,840 Yeah, me too. And hopefully for the listeners 106 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:09,520 out there who are interested in getting some more insight into 107 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:14,680 how to really effectively manage and deal with people who need 108 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,560 support in the workplace or, you know, just kind of all of the 109 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,320 above, whatever that kind of brings into context. 110 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,120 Hopefully they'll walk away with a lot of additional information 111 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,200 and insight that they can then apply in their own experiences. 112 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,040 So with that, maybe we start at the top. 113 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,840 I mean, I did share in your bio that you've experienced your own 114 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:38,240 mental health, you know, challenges and diagnosis 115 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,440 personally, but that you've also dealt with an unfortunate 2 116 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,680 circumstances of being terminated after disclosing what 117 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,880 you have been diagnosed with. Do you mind sharing a little bit 118 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,120 more about your experience with that? 119 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,520 Absolutely. As I mentioned in the bio, 120 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,040 mental health has been a persistent factor throughout my 121 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,440 career, and it started really early in my HR career. 122 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,400 Actually. We're talking about suicide 123 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,960 prevention being this month, and it's something that hits very 124 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:17,800 close to home for me because I was not diagnosed with bipolar 125 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,360 disorder for a long time and struggled with suicide ideations 126 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,960 and one of my first experiences with mental health in the 127 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,440 workplace. I was very early in my HR career 128 00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:35,560 and I actually was in a very deep depressive episode and had 129 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,640 a suicide attempt. I ended up missing a week of 130 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,240 work and coming back after a week of being in the hospital 131 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,680 and at the time was working for an HR manager. 132 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,240 I was in a in a junior role and I said to the HR manager, I 133 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,040 can't be at home by myself. I need to be at work. 134 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,480 I'm going to struggle right now, but I need to be at work. 135 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:05,760 And this was the first time I noticed that. 136 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:11,400 OK, there's no understanding here because after a few days he 137 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:17,800 handed me short term disability paperwork and said I need I need 138 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,200 the job to be done better than you're doing it right now. 139 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,240 So you're off work. And that was again, I navigated 140 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,360 through that and moved on in my career. 141 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:34,920 And yes, unfortunately the ups and downs of mental health can 142 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:40,080 be difficult sometimes for staff and even for HR. 143 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:47,080 So in HRI would have staff come to me and, and disclose and say 144 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:52,360 I, I, I don't know what I need or this part of my job is, is 145 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,200 stressing me out. And it made me realize from the 146 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,920 HR standpoint that oh, OK, yes, I live with this. 147 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:05,680 But as HR I I'm having to figure out on the fly how to deal with 148 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,560 this. This wasn't part of my education 149 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,480 at all. And in two of my senior HR 150 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:17,360 roles, both times I opted to go to senior management and say, 151 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,280 I'm going through this type of episode right now. 152 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,560 I'm really struggling. I need you to be patient with 153 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,040 me. And yeah, two separate occasions 154 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,560 after doing that because I didn't know. 155 00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:34,799 I mean, I knew obviously from the HR standpoint, while I need 156 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:36,720 to give some kind of restrictions, but I have no 157 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,200 idea. So I would often try and 158 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,919 describe it as, you know, heavy, you know, if I'm working on 159 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:49,200 writing a, a policy that's heavy in legislative requirements, 160 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,440 that's going to be difficult right now. 161 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,560 But again, no one has the tools for this. 162 00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:59,840 And so unfortunately I was terminated on 2 separate 163 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:06,440 occasions and that in itself is, is difficult. 164 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:11,360 We know it's HR that any time there's an an adverse impact on 165 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,960 an employee, we're also impacting their personal life. 166 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,000 So that was certainly the case for me. 167 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:22,520 And that's what led me to really after the second time look at it 168 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:28,040 and say, OK, I understand from the employer standpoint that 169 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,200 there's just no training. They have no idea what to do 170 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,280 with this. And I've seen this where 171 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,160 supervisors will come in and you'll see the I just need this 172 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:43,120 job to get done. And the switch to this employee 173 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,920 is it is very important to this organization. 174 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,600 Let's, let's see how we can still utilize that hasn't, 175 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,440 hasn't been made yet. And and it often does lead to, 176 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,600 to termination just due to frustrations of the job not 177 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,560 being done the way it was previously. 178 00:09:59,560 --> 00:10:02,360 And that's what led me to realize there's a gap here 179 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:07,160 between HR not knowing what to do and employees not knowing 180 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,440 what to do or, or exactly how the process is going to work for 181 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,880 them. And so that's that's how I came 182 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:18,600 to start the organization. Thank you so much for sharing 183 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,560 that. I mean, it's not easy to be 184 00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:23,880 vulnerable. It's not easy to share really 185 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,840 difficult personal stories. So I really appreciate that 186 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:31,840 you've done so even in the 1st 5 minutes of our conversation, and 187 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,640 I'm sure the listeners appreciate it too. 188 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,120 You're not, you're certainly not alone. 189 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,760 You're not the only person who has stories like this, hence why 190 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,120 you've created accommodation analyzed. 191 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:48,080 I mean this one of the thoughts that I had when you shared your 192 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:53,120 first story around, you know, your suicide attempt and, and 193 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,640 the lack of support that you received at work and that you 194 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,160 were just basically handed short term disability papers and sent 195 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,360 on your way. My first thought is knowing what 196 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,360 you know now for any listener who maybe doesn't know what to 197 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:13,280 do in order to manage someone's you know, need for 198 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,840 accommodations or even know which questions to ask, what 199 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,120 would you say someone should have done what he should have 200 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,680 done in that situation rather than just hand you short term 201 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:26,800 disability papers? It certainly should have been a 202 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:31,880 deeper conversation. So one of the things that we 203 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:40,000 don't realize is that you don't have to be a therapist in HR. 204 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,720 And often times we're cast as that in a way for certain things 205 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,840 with with employees. And in that particular 206 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:53,560 conversation, I feel like if the HR manager had gained some 207 00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:58,560 understanding, some training around mental health, the 208 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:02,960 conversation could have looked like asking me, for instance, 209 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:08,840 OK, so I'm noticing that you're struggling in this area and this 210 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:15,120 area we need to focus on on getting these. 211 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,080 How can I support you to to navigate through getting these 212 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,480 areas up to where they need to be? 213 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:27,440 And what are the areas you feel you could be strong right now, 214 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,120 just given how you're, you're feeling? 215 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,240 And the other part of the conversation too, is 216 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:39,840 understanding that a lot of doctors, they just, they don't, 217 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,240 they don't get a lot of training, especially GPS, They, 218 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,760 they're not specialists in this. So understanding that there is 219 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:52,080 other supports and it's, it's no different than finding supports 220 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,960 if let's say as HR we're conducting mass layoffs and we 221 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,360 want to offer support to those employees that are being laid 222 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,280 off. So we would go digging for 223 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,840 supports. There's supports, for instance, 224 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,760 exactly like the support group that I run. 225 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,640 They're fairly prevalent. They're free in a lot of cases. 226 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:19,000 And that could be something that HR could have that tool just 227 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,400 available of, OK, these are something that if somebody comes 228 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:28,640 to me with an issue, then they, I can offer these types of 229 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,720 supports. And the other thing we should 230 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,480 know. And it again, you don't have to 231 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,640 be a therapist to, to know this, but asking questions around the 232 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:45,400 topic of suicide is, is, is crucial because there is 233 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,600 obviously, let's say in my case, there could have been a 234 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:53,600 potential liability risk if if I had just taken the paperwork 235 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,880 and, and gone home and try to gain. 236 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:03,320 So in that case, just understanding in your role kind 237 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,400 of, OK, how serious is this? And so just asking questions to 238 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:13,680 see, you know, do I have a plan? Do I seem like extremely 239 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:18,920 distraught all the time and, and really just kind of figure that 240 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,480 out because that'll inform you whether or not you need to call 241 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,760 external help. And so that kind of questioning 242 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,280 would be would have been helpful in that case and and doesn't 243 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:39,800 need medical expertise to to do. Yeah, this is a great advice and 244 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,200 really helpful. The thing that stood out to me 245 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,640 that you said, which was having a deeper conversation, and this 246 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,760 is something when I whenever I talk about accommodations and 247 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:56,120 what we do, how we manage them, or really how we deal with an 248 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,960 employee who's come to us and share this type of information, 249 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,120 is that we should always ask questions. 250 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,240 Asking questions is is the first step to understanding what 251 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,720 someone needs, what they're experiencing, how serious to 252 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,200 your point, how serious the matter is. 253 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,280 And this is for anything. It could be for someone who says 254 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,000 that they need to sit every 15 minutes and you might not know 255 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,000 why, to someone who is struggling with mental health. 256 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,400 And when we think about having a deeper conversation, asking 257 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:34,240 questions, I think that most of the time people are taught. 258 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:39,800 So with with, I should say, with a lens that is so heavily 259 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:45,720 focused on preventing liability, mitigating risk, that they 260 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,640 sometimes forget to to practice empathy. 261 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,840 And by the time this episode comes out, I'll be able to 262 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,200 reference that earlier in the year in the spring. 263 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,360 So it was like around May something that I released an 264 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:04,040 episode with another guest where we talked about how the two 265 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:09,600 weeks notice kind of framework is one that doesn't necessarily 266 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,640 work. And one part of our conversation 267 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:19,720 is that when, when in order to have a more open transition kind 268 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:24,640 of program in a, in a company, there has to be a movement away 269 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,680 from being so afraid of litigation and so afraid of 270 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,920 risk. Because what ends up happening 271 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,320 is someone just delivers a performance improvement plan 272 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,360 because they think they have to. And then they find themselves in 273 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,560 that risk or that that those mucky waters that they were 274 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,680 trying to avoid. Similarly, obviously, on a more 275 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:50,240 serious note, I do think that people tend to shy away from 276 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,360 asking some of those questions because they're afraid that the 277 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,640 more they know, the deeper they're involved and the, you 278 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,800 know, the more risky that is for them or the company. 279 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,080 But it doesn't have to be that way. 280 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,280 HR leaders can certainly, if someone comes to them and says, 281 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,160 you know, I'm really struggling with my mental health, they can 282 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:12,680 ask, what do you mean struggling? 283 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,079 What does that mean? What, how can I, you know, how 284 00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:18,920 can I support you? What would what does what does 285 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,319 coping look like for you? Like do you need time off? 286 00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:29,760 Do you need today out of work? Like what you know, asking when 287 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,280 someone says I'm struggling with my mental health. 288 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:37,080 You have almost no information. So it is similarly to the to the 289 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,320 story that you shared with us at the top of our discussion. 290 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,080 Your manager didn't have any information other than something 291 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:48,960 that was attempted. And you know, you, you were 292 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,800 there in front of him. And at that point, he instead of 293 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,400 practicing empathy, he chose to just assert what he probably 294 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,760 thought you needed instead of actually asking you what you 295 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,360 needed. And I think that that's like the 296 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:07,000 most, not the most important thing, but if if the listeners 297 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,040 can walk away with one thing that they practice tomorrow, I 298 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,320 think asking questions and being empathetic, being unafraid to be 299 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,320 empathetic is a good place to start. 300 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:17,920 Do you? What are your thoughts on that? 301 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,880 Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Empathy is just such a great 302 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,960 place to start. And even if you were to ask, a 303 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:33,440 great way to show empathy as HR is to in a way, take the focus 304 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,960 off the job. One way to make an employee feel 305 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,200 really comfortable is to say to them, you know, wow, this, this 306 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,080 sounds terrible. How is it impacting your 307 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,920 day-to-day life? And that'll give you an under 308 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,320 that in a way, at least for me, makes me feel like I'm helping 309 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,880 the employee to, to feel comfortable. 310 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,280 Because you talked about risk. Well, the, the risk is there on 311 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:04,400 the employee side too. That's why we often see vague 312 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:09,400 notes from doctors is because the employees are terrified to 313 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,960 to let on at all that that there's this mental health issue 314 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:19,760 because of the the fear that they're going to just look for 315 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,240 ways to to get rid of me. I hear that often with members 316 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:29,400 of my support group. So being able to more humanize 317 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:35,840 the conversation and take it away from that approach of just 318 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,120 how can I get you to, how can I tackle this so that you just get 319 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:42,800 back to doing your job and really focus on that empathy 320 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:48,560 and, and building that rapport where they feel as though, OK, 321 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:53,760 I, I can trust that I can disclose and talk about this 322 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:58,120 more. Yeah, that's, it's a great 323 00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:02,520 point. I was reflecting on a time in my 324 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,240 career where. You know, employees confided in 325 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:11,280 me particularly about some of these topics that we're talking 326 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,240 about. And, you know, I think that when 327 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,280 I think about like those experiences being in person 328 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:24,800 versus now where I'm remote, I think that there is, at least 329 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:31,120 from my perspective, it seems that the adoption of more widely 330 00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:34,440 acceptable remote work has made it a little bit easier for 331 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:39,040 people who generally would need to request accommodation to 332 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,440 manage without having to request it. 333 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,840 It's not to say that they aren't, but generally speaking, 334 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,800 like, you know, if someone has a flexible work environment and 335 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,280 they're having a difficult day or they're having an episode or 336 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,400 something like that, they can call out sick. 337 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,960 And it's generally not something that really offers any further 338 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,480 discussion, depending of course on the length of time and things 339 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,080 like that. But you know, reflecting on my 340 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,640 in person experiences, it's not. So it wasn't so easy to avoid 341 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,600 that conversation because it's so obvious and noticeable when 342 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,040 someone isn't themselves or isn't in at work and in the 343 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,720 office. What are your, what are your 344 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:23,600 thoughts for HR leaders on how they can stay connected even in 345 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,680 a remote or distributed environment so that they have a 346 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,640 pulse on how people are feeling? Because while to your point, we 347 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,720 are not counselors or therapists, we do still have a 348 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,880 responsibility to, to have a pulse on what's going on in the, 349 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,720 in the workplace, which includes, you know, home offices 350 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,960 and how people are just generally doing. 351 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,680 What's your what are your pieces of advice there? 352 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,640 My piece of advice is you don't have to do anything 353 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:57,040 groundbreakingly different. It can be as simple as just 354 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:02,480 checking in regularly. Just just saying, how about we 355 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:08,800 have a 15 minute call? Maybe it starts out every couple 356 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,400 of days, Maybe maybe it moves to once a week just as a check in, 357 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,520 just simply to say, Hey, how are you doing? 358 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:22,480 I see you, I'm, I'm here to, to help you through this. 359 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:28,840 And you'll find too that your, your solid superstar employees. 360 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,760 I mean, they're going to, they're going to latch on to 361 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,320 that and they're, they're going to, they're going to work hard 362 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,600 to, to get through it as well. Most employees, they don't want 363 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,320 to be off work. They want to be doing a good 364 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,960 job. And so feel like they're well 365 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:49,400 supported, then they're going to work much harder to remove some 366 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,520 of the barriers themselves. And part of it too is education 367 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,000 for the employees. Often employees, and I was 368 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:08,400 certainly guilty of this in my HR practices, is that employees 369 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:14,440 didn't really get the proper education on how things would 370 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:21,080 proceed if they disclosed or if it appeared as though they were 371 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,520 struggling with a mental health condition. 372 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,960 So they really had no idea where as if it was more of a physical 373 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,400 issue, say a say a back issue. People understood that we were 374 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,800 going to do, you know, work hardening going forward to to 375 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,240 get them back to where they were. 376 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,400 And so education is a big piece as well. 377 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,360 Yeah, that makes sense. We hear, I've at least I feel 378 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,600 like I hear all the time this analogy between, you know, 379 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,200 broken bone, you fix it versus, you know, a mental health 380 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,400 challenge. And then it's like there's the 381 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:59,120 stigma associated with it. And really the, the, the next 382 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:03,080 thing is to fix it and, and deal with it and, and for people to 383 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,760 get the resources that they need. 384 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,800 And I think that those stigmas that are associated are what 385 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:14,040 generally create these gaps between employees and employers 386 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,680 and how both can be supported. Because certainly there are 387 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,840 moments where employers can't support any further than they 388 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,160 have. And, and that's a conversation 389 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,840 too. But there's you get there over 390 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:33,080 time and there should be some kind of ramp up to what that 391 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,920 final, you know, either someone being fully supported and 392 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,800 they're doing great and everything's fine or whether 393 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,920 there's that conversation around, you know, a more 394 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,120 permanent disability option or leave or something like that. 395 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,240 My other kind of reflection point or thought too is that I'm 396 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,960 curious if you know, given the the two experiences that you had 397 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:02,360 after disclosing your own mental health status, if that has LED 398 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:05,680 you to feel differently about what employees should disclose 399 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,600 or how they disclose it. Or if there's generally a 400 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,480 recommendation that you have for someone whether they should 401 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,840 disclose, shouldn't disclose or again, how they should go about 402 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,440 it if they do decide to. Yeah, it's. 403 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,120 A great point. And for employees, you really 404 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:33,320 need to, I'll say, read the room and understand what, what, what 405 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,360 you feel safe disclosing and what you, what you feel might be 406 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:40,720 risky because you're under, no, in a lot of jurisdictions, 407 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,200 you're under no, you're not forced to disclose. 408 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,520 However, I, I definitely from an employee perspective. 409 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,320 And again, this is something that it's interesting because 410 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,400 you would think as, as HR for as long as I've been in HR, you 411 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,280 would think that I, I would have known right up front that, oh, 412 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,480 wow, I know how I have to present restrictions, but you 413 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,320 know, there was a gap for, for me as an employee as well. 414 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,240 And so I think having employees understand, and you touched on 415 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,440 this point and it's, it's very relevant just because I have a 416 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,520 disorder and it could be a disorder like mine that's 417 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,120 chronic, or it could simply be that I'm struggling with 418 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:24,840 depression because I lost a loved one. 419 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,680 And this might take four or five months to work through that that 420 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,360 part of the grieving process, but it's not going to be 421 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:35,400 permanent. So employees need to also 422 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,720 understand that they need to be part of the process. 423 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:43,400 They cannot just say I can't do this and pick certain parts of 424 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,200 their job that you know, should just be permanently eliminated 425 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,560 because that puts a strain on other staff members and, and 426 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,640 things of that nature. So being able to understand 427 00:26:54,640 --> 00:27:00,480 that, yes, my employer does need to work with me, but I also need 428 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,520 to work with them because understanding they still do have 429 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,800 a business to run. And so figuring out that middle 430 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:14,920 ground is that some advice that I would give to employees, but 431 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:20,240 also for HR to be really clear with that, that yes, we're going 432 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,280 to support you, but this is a two way St. 433 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,760 We need to come up with a plan together. 434 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,720 Yeah, that's great. Advice that and I think that's 435 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,320 what happens when there is a deeper conversation and there 436 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:35,080 there are questions asked versus assumptions made. 437 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,400 And I really appreciate that you talked about, you know, just 438 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,560 your own reflection and what you've learned from those 439 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:48,320 experience experiences, but also what employees today can do in 440 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,120 order to get the support that they need. 441 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,600 And that to me, a big part of that is our knowing exactly what 442 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,080 you need or being able to articulate those needs. 443 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,000 To your point, if someone is, is struggling with depression or 444 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,160 anxiety or something that is atypical in their experience 445 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,200 and, and maybe it is something that's based on like this acute 446 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,960 scenario or, or moment in time, like the loss of a loved one 447 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,880 that they can frame it in that way that they have this 448 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,320 opportunity to say, hey, I lost so and so loved one. 449 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,800 It's been a little bit tough for me. 450 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,600 I'm going through some things. I really am going to need a 451 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,160 little bit more time off. I might even need to leave. 452 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,720 What are my options? Because then I think, you know, 453 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,280 to your point, like doctor's notes generally are vague 454 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,680 because employees don't really want to disclose things. 455 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,480 I think there's also good reason for them to be afraid of 456 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,080 disclosing things. Obviously, you had your own 457 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,920 experiences with that. Not to say that companies aren't 458 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,520 going to do the right thing, but sometimes they to your points 459 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,800 that you've made, they just don't know what the right thing 460 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,280 is. And we as employees, if we're in 461 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,840 those scenarios, we have to kind of guide them sometimes. 462 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,640 And also we as HR leaders, we also have to guide what the 463 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,000 business needs. Accommodations ultimately always 464 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,040 come down to what the business can tolerate. 465 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,600 And that's where all of those questions kind of come in. 466 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,680 And, you know, I, I've seen, I've seen businesses really bend 467 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,080 over backwards to accommodate someone that has gone through a 468 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,080 very difficult time in their life or they've had a major 469 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,880 health scare or whatever it might be. 470 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:25,920 And I think that's a great thing. 471 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,640 And those companies are generally the ones that are not 472 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,480 so concerned about their own risk and are more concerned 473 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,160 about what that employee might need in that moment. 474 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,360 And I think, you know, my, my final point on this is that for 475 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,760 employees who are, you know, effectively deciding whether to 476 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,880 disclose or not, you, you made a great suggestion, which is to 477 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,480 kind of read the room and know exactly what type of waters 478 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,080 you're sailing in. And I could understand why even 479 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,920 from your perspective, you disclosed your own disorder 480 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,080 because you were in HR and you probably had this sense of 481 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:10,120 comfort also because you all are in charge of how people are 482 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:15,440 experiencing that organization. And so like I could, I could see 483 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,000 that, you know, you would probably operate under the 484 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,040 pretenses that HR is going to support HR because HR supports 485 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,240 people. And I think at the same time, 486 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,280 this is something that other people can learn from too, that 487 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:33,880 having you know, as much information in your kind of in 488 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,440 your hands to be able to articulate again, exactly what 489 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,080 you need while also being flexible to what the business 490 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,280 might need. Following your advice, Matthew, 491 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:48,120 that you know, companies might not be able to, to grant six 492 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,720 weeks off of unpaid leave if you haven't been there for, you 493 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,160 know, what qualifies you for another type of job? 494 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,360 Protected leave, depending on where someone lives. 495 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,680 Or you know, a company might say, look, we can't do this, but 496 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,600 we can do that. And being able to have the 497 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,440 flexibility or a more compromising nature around it 498 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,560 could be helpful. But obviously that's not always 499 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,200 afforded to everyone depending on the circumstances and how 500 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:19,800 severe someone's mental health condition might be, I suppose. 501 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,000 So I guess, you know, kind of to close out this conversation, I'm 502 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,000 curious, you know, where can, where can listeners who are in 503 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,960 HR start in terms of really being able to say that they are 504 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,000 supporting people, that they are taking the, the actions and the 505 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,800 steps necessary to encourage people to feel comfortable to 506 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,800 share what they're going through and, and ask for accommodations 507 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,600 if they need. And then on the flip side, 508 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,680 what's the first thing that an employee can do if they've been 509 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,160 kind of on the fence about sharing, but need accommodation 510 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,800 and need something from their employer. 511 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,520 So from the. HR side, and we've talked about 512 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:04,400 this empathy is that's it's the best starting point and often 513 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:11,200 employees look at HR to be that empathetic individual in the 514 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,160 organization. And so being able to start from 515 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:20,520 that standpoint and approach from the view of even if this 516 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,400 employee doesn't disclose clearly, they're going through a 517 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,440 hard time and need some kind of support through that hard time. 518 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,000 And if you approach it like that, you start to build that 519 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,040 trust and rapport and that employee over time. 520 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,400 When you think about it, we all know an employee that will come 521 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,240 in and just tell us everything. And it's because, and, and often 522 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,960 it'll be stuff we don't really want to know that, but they'll 523 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:52,120 just go because they trust us. And so to start to build that 524 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,360 with empathy is is huge for HR and for employees. 525 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:02,240 You need to understand that the business does need to run. 526 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:09,160 And so if you are unable to do your job in the effective way 527 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,440 that you have been doing it up until this point, then you do 528 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:18,040 need to take some steps to address that. 529 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,800 And it doesn't mean you have to go in and say, Hey, I've been 530 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,760 diagnosed with bipolar disorder. To your point about me, I 531 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:30,080 diagnosed, I disclosed because I, I took the stance of, well, 532 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,720 if they have an understanding of what's going on with me, I'll be 533 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,520 easier to work with. But for an employee, just being 534 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:41,640 able to go in and just say, I'm struggling right now and I'm 535 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,040 struggling with my job. Can we talk about ways to help 536 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,160 me get through this period that would be a a good starting 537 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,560 approach without really putting yourself at at huge amounts of 538 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,960 potential risk? Yeah, that's a. 539 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,120 Great point, great advice. And Matthew, I, I just want to 540 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,240 under score again, that I really appreciate your vulnerability 541 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,360 and your openness to talking about your own experiences and, 542 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,320 and also really appreciate what you're doing for your own 543 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,480 community. I mean, it's, it's really a 544 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,400 wonderful story that you're continuing to write that you've 545 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,800 kind of gone through some of these experiences yourself, and 546 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:26,560 yet you've found it in you to want to help others and really 547 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,560 to to help them learn from your own experiences. 548 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,840 I think that's a wonderful thing. 549 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,600 And knowledge sharing is so powerful. 550 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,600 It's one of the best parts of having a podcast is that and 551 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,840 really living in 2025 is that, you know, no information is 552 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,960 foreign to us. We can learn anything. 553 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,080 We can find out any information. And so I really appreciate what 554 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:48,760 you're doing and what you've shared today. 555 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,080 So thank you so much. Thank you, Tracy. 556 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,679 It's been a wonderful experience and I appreciate the opportunity 557 00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:56,719 to get the message in. Amazing. 558 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,320 Well. For listeners who maybe want to 559 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,440 learn more about accommodation analyzed and what you do and 560 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,640 your support group and all of that and maybe who just 561 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,120 generally want to connect with you, where can they find you and 562 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,680 make that connection? So my website. 563 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:16,120 Is accommodationanalyze.com and that is one avenue. 564 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:24,080 I also do run webinars regularly to support this discussion and 565 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,480 so feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn and that way you'll 566 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,560 be able to register for those if they're of interest. 567 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,520 But they're also on the website. Amazing, amazing. 568 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,680 I will make sure that all of your links are shared in the 569 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,960 show notes so that the listeners can very easily connect with you 570 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,640 and click all of those links. So, Matthew, thank you again so 571 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,920 much for your time and you're sharing everything that you've 572 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,800 shared with us today. Thank you, Tracy. 573 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,840 Hey, just before you. Go don't forget to subscribe to 574 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,840 this show so that you are the first to hear. 575 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,080 When an episode drops. Each week and maybe leave a five 576 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,920 star review and a comment about how much you love this episode. 577 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,720 Plus, if you have someone in mind who would really enjoy this 578 00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:04,240 episode, make sure we share it with them. 579 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,160 Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you next week.