1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,160 Welcome back to the Bringing the human Back to Human resources 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,880 podcast, The Replay series. I'm your host, Tracy Turn off, 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,080 and I'm thrilled to have you join us once again as we journey 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,840 through the episodes that have top charts around the world. 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,800 In this podcast series, we're revisiting some of our most 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,200 insightful, thought provoking, and transformative conversations 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,640 with industry experts, thought leaders, and practitioners. 8 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,400 These episodes have made waves. Sparking meaningful conversation 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,360 and inspiring positive change throughout human resources. 10 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,120 Whether you're a dedicated listener who's been with us from 11 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,280 the start or you're just tuning in for the first time, the 12 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,240 Replay series offers a chance to dive deep into the core 13 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,800 principles that guide our exploration into HR practices. 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,520 So get ready to rediscover the discussions that continue to 15 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,800 shape the future of HR. Without further ado, let's step 16 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,920 back in time and immerse ourselves into the podcasts top 17 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:55,960 charted episodes. Let the replay. 18 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,160 Begin. Welcome to the Bringing the 19 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,160 Human Back to Human Resources podcast. 20 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,320 I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've spent my entire professional 21 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,280 career in HR. Each week, we'll explore the 22 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,520 delicate balance between people and business, with the aim to 23 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,000 reconnect the two and create meaningful outcomes. 24 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,560 Listen in as I share my own experiences, challenge the 25 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,120 status quo, and chat with guests from various industries about 26 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,440 our mission to bring the human back to human. 27 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:22,840 Resources. Hi, everyone. 28 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,520 Welcome back to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources 29 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,040 podcast. Thank you so much for being here 30 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,040 for another week. Don't forget to rate, review, 31 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:30,840 and subscribe wherever you're catching this episode. 32 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,200 And if you're watching on YouTube, be sure to give this 33 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,640 video a thumbs up. Appreciate it in advance. 34 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,000 This week we're going to spend quite a bit of time talking 35 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,320 about generational differences in the workplace, specifically 36 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:46,200 Gen. Z, which I think we might have 37 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,120 talked about a little bit before on the podcast, but definitely 38 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,520 not enough because the generational differences and the 39 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,440 number of generations in the workplace is pretty significant 40 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,440 these days. So to do this I have on my guest 41 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,000 here, Megan, who has heard the line Millennials are killing the 42 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,400 fill in the blank industry one too many times and has channeled 43 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,840 her energy into helping people create more collaborative 44 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,800 experiences across generations since 2014. 45 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,800 Doctor Megan Grace is a leading generational expert whose 46 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,600 research on Gen. Z spans the last decade and has 47 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,520 helped companies, universities, and associations around the 48 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,720 world understand generations to work Better Together. 49 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,120 Megan prioritizes understanding the human experience while 50 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,960 providing data informed insights about generations. 51 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,040 Guided by multiple studies, Doctor Grace helps connect the 52 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,480 dots between getting to know generation and knowing what 53 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,080 makes them tick. She is the host of the podcast 54 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,920 #Gen Z and has co-authored 3 books on Generation Z with her 55 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:47,200 new book Generations in the World of Work coming out later 56 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,680 this year. When she isn't researching, 57 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,320 speaking, writing or podcasting about generations, she Co leads 58 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,120 the Institute for Generational Research and Education. 59 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,800 Doctor Grace Megan, welcome to the podcast. 60 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:00,840 Thank you so much for being here. 61 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:02,680 Thank you. Yeah, We can go by Megan. 62 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,720 I feel like when we intro with the doctor, they're like, can 63 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,960 you give me medical advice? And I'm like, absolutely not. 64 00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:11,240 I mean, we can Google your symptoms together. 65 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,480 No doctor in education. Still a very valid one. 66 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,120 Our first lady, Joe Biden, has one. 67 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:19,000 But it's wonderful to be here. Tracy, thanks for having me. 68 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:20,800 Of course. Thank you so much. 69 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:25,280 And as I had mentioned at the top of the podcast, there's so 70 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,160 much to discuss when it comes to generations, generational 71 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,600 differences, how they impact the workplace. 72 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,560 But obviously, it goes without saying, as we read in your bio, 73 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,080 that Gen. Z, and especially given that 74 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,640 this is a whole podcast for you, is a major focus point for you, 75 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,760 not only in your research, but also in what you share and what 76 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,120 you're passionate about talking about. 77 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,160 So maybe we have to start there. Maybe we need to start with who 78 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:52,480 is Gen. Z? 79 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,760 Who are they made-up of? What ages are they and what are 80 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:00,120 some of the differences that we see related to Gen. 81 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,480 Z specifically? Yeah. 82 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,880 So Gen. Z, we use the the age range of 83 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,440 1985 to 2010. So when we're thinking about who 84 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,520 those people are in society in this day of 2024, that is 85 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,079 college students, like some high school students who are seeing 86 00:04:19,079 --> 00:04:23,320 like they're kind of growing out of high school, predominantly in 87 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:24,960 college. They are the predominant college 88 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,560 population, but they're also that young adult new hire in 89 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,680 most industries. So think anything from 18 to 90 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,680 almost 3018 to 29. They're turning 30 next year. 91 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,840 If everyone wants to feel elderly, the oldest of Gen. 92 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:40,800 Z will be 30 next year. They're freaking out. 93 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,320 We're freaking out. Everybody's freaking out. 94 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:48,200 But so they are really squarely in higher education and higher 95 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,400 Ed has been hanging out with them for a little while and 96 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,160 trying to to pivot and adapt to this generation and like the 97 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,080 generate the demographic shift not only in like who they are, 98 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:00,080 but this year, number of them or smaller number of them is the 99 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,760 better way to put that. But the, the corporate space and 100 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,760 the world of work is really, they were sneaking in there and 101 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,640 they're pretty solidly almost 10 years of them in the workspace 102 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,440 now. So many of them are, I don't 103 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,440 know where we put that cut off of like approaching of their mid 104 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,280 career, but some of them have been in roles for five to seven 105 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:27,360 years now. And so they're, they're there. 106 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,720 They, they have their workplace habits and they are, I don't 107 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,440 want to say shaking up the world of work. 108 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,280 They are doing what a new generation does when they get to 109 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:39,160 a new phase of life, which is bring their own perspectives and 110 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,800 their own values, behaviors, trends, mindsets into those 111 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,800 environments. They did it in education. 112 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,280 They've done it as they've gone to college, and they're doing it 113 00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:52,160 again as they're going into work. 114 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,800 They're going to do it as they more predominantly become 115 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,400 parents and leading families. And so that's just like the 116 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,320 interesting thing when we're thinking about this generation 117 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,040 is it's not like they were quietly entering, right? 118 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,920 Like we actually have, millennials are the most studied 119 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,360 generation to date, Gen. Z's like right after them. 120 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,840 And that's just the advancement of being able to study large 121 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:14,880 groups of people and like conduct demographic studies like 122 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,840 we oftentimes do, right? So with this generation, I mean, 123 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,240 we know the age range. We know that this generation is, 124 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,120 if you're paying attention to people within that age, they're 125 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,640 very socially driven, not in the idea of like, I need to have a 126 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,800 lot of friends, but really this mindset of like social change 127 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,120 oriented and trying to make the world a better place. 128 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,880 Like that's a big motivation of theirs is helping others, but 129 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:42,760 they're also very digital, very digitally defined generation. 130 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,440 It's not the only thing that defines this generation, but it 131 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,760 is something that's unique. Like they have truly, they 132 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,280 cannot picture a world when we did not have the Internet. 133 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,680 They, they just can't fathom it, not a single day. 134 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,920 And so like, that's just like a very different, like 135 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,880 millennials. I think we've been on the train 136 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:00,640 of being like, technology's good, let's learn new 137 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,960 technology. But we could also be like, we 138 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,360 knew there was a time when we didn't have it and like, or it 139 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,640 was very slow or it was more of a commodity as opposed to like a 140 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,640 necessity for Gen. Z, it's always been a necessity. 141 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,800 Like they really don't have any conscious memories before the 142 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,200 iPhone. Oh my God. 143 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,920 Wow, yeah. So like things to like think 144 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,920 about is the the way that technology is adapted alongside 145 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,200 them while they're also just developing what are normal human 146 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,440 life skills of communication, navigating the world, 147 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,120 understanding people, getting jobs, going to school. 148 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,160 Technology has been such a strong undercurrent for this 149 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,120 generation. And it's just really it's 150 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,640 embedded in their DNA. But they also recognize like the 151 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,200 double edged sword the technology plays. 152 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,600 So that's like just a snippet about Gen. 153 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,400 Z. I know there's so much more we 154 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,480 could talk about, but, and I know that we will get there, but 155 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,720 that is just like the really quick and the quick and The 156 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,240 Dirty of who they are. It's this the young adult 157 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,080 generation, the latter teens, they're really in that. 158 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,760 I think that unique, malleable time in life, which is actually 159 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,160 when we want to study generations is when they are 160 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,800 developing and forming their, their personal worldview, their 161 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,440 identity set their values. So from a generational lens, 162 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,120 that's when like generational theorists like myself come in 163 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,040 and we're like, Oh, this is the time to understand this group. 164 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,760 Like we don't want to do it any earlier because we don't, we 165 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,720 don't, I mean, when you're 12, you're, you're not, yes, you're 166 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,200 developing who you are, but you're not fully there yet. 167 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:33,240 A lot of it is the understanding through the lens of your 168 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,679 parents, your guardians, your family members and like your 169 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,840 immediate circle. It's not till we get to those 170 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:41,039 teen and young adult years that we really can start to develop 171 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,559 what would be like a generational identity. 172 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,080 That is so fascinating, thank you for sharing that. 173 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:52,080 I mean, I am still a little hung up on this understanding that 174 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,280 they that Gen. Z does not really have a view of 175 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:01,040 the world without some of these critical advances in technology 176 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,800 like the iPhone, like non dial up Internet. 177 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,440 Because I can like I think about dial up. 178 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,120 I can hear the sound. I distinctly remember what life 179 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,200 was like before having a computer and after having a 180 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,680 computer, which certainly was a commodity. 181 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:21,320 I would say it's just so interesting because I feel like 182 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,520 I might sound like the boomer that said millennials or this 183 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,680 millennials or that one. I'm like, oh, Gen. 184 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:29,080 Z is like this and Gen. Z is like that. 185 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,640 But actually that is kind of the beauty of having generational 186 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,680 differences is that we have our own generational identity, to 187 00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:39,040 your point, and we compare ourselves to other generations, 188 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,680 just like as a millennial, I can compare myself to Gen. 189 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:46,360 X or the boomers who my parents are. 190 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,880 And so it's just like really interesting to me. 191 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,320 And and given all the research that you've done, I'm curious 192 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,400 especially from a theoretical standpoint, are there 193 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:02,840 predictions on what Gen. Z will be like when they are 194 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,280 even they probably are already decision makers in business. 195 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:11,000 But I guess maybe more broadly, regardless of whether they're 196 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,360 decision makers, not what, what Gen. 197 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,240 Z will be like in the workforce as time continues to pass and as 198 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,200 other generations then are added to the workforce. 199 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,480 Yeah, so we're actually probably in a really good place with 200 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,320 having spent about 10 years thinking about Gen. 201 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,760 Z as young adults. Like I frame them all kind of as 202 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,840 young adults. We have about 10 years of our 203 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,400 understanding of them. And So what we tend to do in, 204 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,040 yes, there's actual social science that goes into 205 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,200 understanding generations. People probably they probably 206 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,440 think it's like a BuzzFeed quiz, but it's it's really being able 207 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,080 to like know how the human identity is shaped. 208 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,520 And then how do we do that as a collective in response to 209 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,320 society? So like that's like the really 210 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,680 quick and dirty of like how we would understand a generation. 211 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,360 When we're looking at Gen. Z, we've been looking at them 212 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,520 for about 10 years in this kind of like lens of life and 213 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,520 thinking about the things that influence a generation, we tend 214 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,520 to look at what are the things technologically going on? 215 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,520 What are the things in society from like a social issues 216 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,920 perspective? What are the things going on 217 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,040 economically? And then what are the things 218 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,000 that are going on like politically and government wise, 219 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,640 like what is the kind of like the geopolitical landscape that 220 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,840 they live in? Because all of those things are 221 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,280 intertwined. Like they're so coupled 222 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,720 together. So really we take a good hard 223 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,400 look at life and what society is doling out to them during those 224 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,040 years. And we say, how are people going 225 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:37,720 to respond to that? And like, when we've looked at 226 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,680 Gen. Z, there have been some really 227 00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:41,520 clear markers, right? Like the technological 228 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,600 advancement and how it allows people to connect and be 229 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,360 informed. Like that's a big one for Gen. 230 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:52,920 Z, like being informed and connected in a very unique way 231 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,440 that's different than previous generations, but we've also seen 232 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,680 that they've lived through and what millennials like, we kind 233 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:01,320 of feel like we're all together in this one is like 234 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,640 unprecedented times where we kind of always feel like we're 235 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,280 living through another historical event every single 236 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,920 day. And a relative for Gen. 237 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,760 Z looking at that and saying, well, like 2000 year session 238 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,600 happened, that wasn't great. Started jobs in the middle of 239 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:22,280 the pandemic that wasn't great. There's war all over the place, 240 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,640 apparently, like the climate is on fire and we can't even go to 241 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:27,920 school and be safe. So like Gen. 242 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,120 Z looks at the world and they're kind of like, it's scary out 243 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,640 there. And a future is not certain that 244 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,120 it's been present for like the the last 10 years of them 245 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,360 developing their worldview is like what the world is spitting 246 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,040 back to them is like, first of all, it's scary out here. 247 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:44,880 Second of all, it's expensive out here. 248 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,960 And so they're very like, it's this interesting balance that 249 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,360 they bring to it of like being very cognizant of the fact that 250 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,640 there's problems in the world and that they have to take care 251 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,760 of themselves to even be able to navigate those problems. 252 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,800 The other piece of it is they're like, I don't say they're 253 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,040 doomsday preppers, but they are always kind of prepared for the 254 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,080 next rainy day, whether that's financially or trying to think 255 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,000 about some level of uncertainty. And when we think about like the 256 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,960 major issues that they tend to tell us that they care about in 257 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,000 all of our studies, it is there's this undercurrent of 258 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,640 wanting stability in their own personal lives, stable housing, 259 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,040 access to healthcare, stable jobs. 260 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,680 Like they're not asking for like everyone to have a starting 261 00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:28,360 salary of 6 figures. They're like, I want to pay my 262 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:29,680 bills and be able to support my family. 263 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,920 Wild stuff. And then the other piece of it, 264 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,880 like, while they, it feels like they're laden with like what 265 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:40,960 sounds like a terrible adulthood, they also deeply care 266 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,160 about making the world a better place. 267 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,240 Like they look at the world and they say this is not so great 268 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,000 sometimes, but there's so much opportunity to improve things. 269 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,840 And I think when we we look at how they are really driven by 270 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,280 making the world a better place. I put quotes around that because 271 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,920 everyone's world feels different and helping people out. 272 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,920 What we, I think, are prepared for in the workplace to really 273 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,720 get to your question is that this generation kind of brings 274 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,280 the balance of nihilism and optimism at the same time. 275 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,760 This idea that like, let's be real about the big issues in our 276 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,440 world and let's also do what we can to make it better at the 277 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,600 same time. And I think that the that to me, 278 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,680 what I hear from a workplace perspective is this is a 279 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,960 generation that is if given the opportunity and engaged in the 280 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,840 right way, are going to be the people that are going to help 281 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,840 improve some of the cultural issues we have within our 282 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,440 workplaces. As well as just the opportunity 283 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,760 to make things more efficient and potentially operate a little 284 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,320 bit better. Because this is a very much so a 285 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,720 generation that's like, let's work smarter, not harder on this 286 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,280 one people. Right. 287 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,120 And and not to cut you off, I'm sure you, you have more to add 288 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,720 to that. But when I think about that 289 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,280 especially, I do think about something that you said a little 290 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:01,440 bit earlier, which was around this, you know, kind of being 291 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,080 the catalyst for a lot of change. 292 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,720 I'm, I don't think I'm quoting you verbatim there, but I did an 293 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,960 episode maybe last year, sometime last year around how 294 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,280 Gen. Z is really quite admirable for 295 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,320 their approach to workplace challenges. 296 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,040 In my opinion. Because I think it was at that 297 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:25,200 time that I was seeing a lot of these trends that where people, 298 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,440 especially those in Gen. Z, were challenging the status 299 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,840 quo. And they were saying, hey, if 300 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,800 you're not gonna change the way that you interact with me and 301 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,080 the people that I work with, meaning businesses, leaders, 302 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:40,720 etc. And you're not gonna make this a 303 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,240 better place to work, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go and find 304 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,600 something else. And I remember reflecting on my 305 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,120 own experience in some challenging environments in my 306 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,840 past where I was like, I've got to make it work. 307 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,080 I'm lucky to have a job. And, you know, jobs are hard to 308 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,800 come by. And I remember in that episode 309 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,880 thinking, well, that is such a such a drastic difference in 310 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,440 response to cultural workplace challenges. 311 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:15,160 And as a millennial, like I can honestly reflect on being told 312 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,840 that, you know, you have to respect authority. 313 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:22,160 And no matter what someone says, like if they are higher ranking, 314 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,800 like you're going to have to follow direction and challenging 315 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,360 the status quo could make could mean that you're making waves in 316 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,760 your job or in your experience. It could mean that you get 317 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,640 fired. And if you get fired, then what 318 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,160 are you going to do? And even though I am a 319 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,400 self-proclaimed challenge challenger of the status quo, I 320 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,840 think I can do that now because I feel more stable in my career. 321 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,400 But early on, I would never think of really making waves, 322 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,560 maybe like teeny tiny little ripples. 323 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:56,080 But I think Gen. Z is in very, very many ways the 324 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:00,680 antithesis to that perspective because they are like, well, I 325 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,200 don't have to stay here. I can go and find another job. 326 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,200 I can go and be an influencer. I can create my own company. 327 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,200 Like there's just such a drastic difference and I really applaud 328 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,160 them for that. You know, obviously I'm speaking 329 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,720 very generally here, but that's my my initial thought on what 330 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,920 you've shared. Well, and I think that Gen. 331 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,359 Z kind of has this mindset of like, you don't need me, like, 332 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,720 or I don't need you as much as you need me, right? 333 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,640 And like they do have more opportunity. 334 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,640 And it kind of just feels like they have this like absolute 335 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,120 unwavering spirit of entrepreneurship, even when 336 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:37,880 they're working within a company and they didn't start it and 337 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,280 they don't own it. Like this idea of improvement 338 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:41,920 and solving a problem. Like that's what an 339 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,360 entrepreneurial mindset actually is, is doing business to solve a 340 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:50,680 problem. And I think for them, they are 341 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,760 drawn to entrepreneurship for the flexibility, for the 342 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,320 freedom, right? Everybody wants that. 343 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:56,560 Anyone that's like, oh, they don't want to work. 344 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,080 I'm like, you have been lied to. I think that for Gen. 345 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,760 Z, they look at it and I don't even know if it's like 346 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,680 challenging the status quo or being disrespectful. 347 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,480 It's questioning because they don't they don't know what they 348 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,520 don't know. And so they might ask a question 349 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,440 about a policy and it'll come across as like, well, maybe we 350 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,440 were, maybe they were being disrespectful because they don't 351 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,160 want to follow the policy. But in reality, they're like, 352 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,080 hey, I'm new here. I don't know why this policy 353 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:20,760 exists. Can you please give me some 354 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,800 background on this? And people kind of take that 355 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,080 personally for whatever reason. And I'm like, don't take it 356 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,560 personally. They don't know what they don't 357 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:29,600 know. They're new here. 358 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,680 You at one point didn't know that either. 359 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,920 And I think for millennials, we were very much so told like, 360 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,440 show up, do your job, listen to the boss, follow the rules and 361 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,200 you'll be rewarded. Once again, we fell for the 362 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,280 scam. And that's not always the case. 363 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,040 Like it is not always the case. And Gen. 364 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,200 Z's like, I'm not going to be scammed by this. 365 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,080 I want you to be honest with me and I want you to be true with 366 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:52,240 me. And millennials. 367 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,920 We really did. And it and it comes from because 368 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,320 that model worked for our baby boomer parents. 369 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,760 The economy changed so drastically and the workforce 370 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,840 changed so drastically right around the 2000s and 371 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:09,280 the.likethe.com era, when technology really did shake up a 372 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,440 lot in the way that we thought about work. 373 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,800 And it impacted millennials and the economy shifted in this 374 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,800 mindset. But we were playing by rules. 375 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,280 Millennials were playing by rules that were designed for and 376 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:20,840 by baby boomers, the Gen. Xers. 377 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,480 It didn't, it wasn't disadvantaging them. 378 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:28,560 And so, like, we look at it and we're like, how bold of these 379 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,280 John's ears to come in and ask these questions. 380 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,840 I would have never done that. But that's also we're just given 381 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,040 a set of rules that really I don't think was designed for 382 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,960 millennials to succeed. And I love the tenacity of Gen. 383 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,880 Z because again, I've had to do a lot of self coaching, like 384 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:46,160 when students or interns or newer hires ask questions like, 385 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,480 why is it like this? And I don't take it as like, why 386 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,280 are you like that, Megan? It's more like, can you explain 387 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,920 to me the historical context of why things are the way that they 388 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,040 are? And then they might say, but 389 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,880 what if we did XY and Z and it saved us 5 hours a week? 390 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,760 And you're like, you're a genius, right? 391 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,000 It's it's this mindset of don't get mad about it just answer the 392 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,200 question. And see where that conversation 393 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,400 takes you. But it's just I go on and on 394 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,360 about like this misconception around Gen. 395 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:15,320 Z, it being like they want to, they want to shake up the 396 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,760 challenge, like status quo and they want to break everything. 397 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,920 I'm like, no, Jen, they're not getting together. 398 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,720 I promise you, they're not getting together on the corners 399 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,120 of the Internet to say let's go make all our bosses mad. 400 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,760 Right. No, they just are asking 401 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,840 questions that we might not have asked before. 402 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,720 Or answers Fresh fresh set of eyes we love. 403 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,280 We hire consultants for that. Yeah, it's really true. 404 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:35,120 We do. We do. 405 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,520 Every company pretty much does. So now that we know much more 406 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:46,440 clearly who Gen. Z is and what they're like and 407 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,320 more often than not in the workplace, what are some things 408 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,240 that create could create, let's say, because it doesn't always. 409 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,320 But what are some things that could create tension between 410 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,240 intergenerational workforces and generational differences in the 411 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,520 workforce? Because certainly, I'm sure you 412 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,400 and I can think of a time where we might have clashed with a 413 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,280 different generation because of the way that we work or the way 414 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,960 that we think. So what are some of those things 415 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,960 that listeners might want to keep an eye out for? 416 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,840 So I think for Gen. Z especially, they are 417 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,280 incredibly protective of one, their self worth and their 418 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,240 self-care. And I don't think there's been 419 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,400 the other generations who have gone in and been like, I'm going 420 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,640 to sacrifice my life, my happiness and potentially my 421 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,480 family to have this job. Just seems like that's a heap of 422 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:34,640 garbage. We're not doing that. 423 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,120 And they're doing it at such a young age. 424 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:39,640 And so again, it comes back to like other generations look at 425 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,120 that. And they're like the audacity of 426 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:45,080 the youth to say that this job isn't important. 427 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,600 And they're like, no, it's important to me that 8 hours a 428 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,760 day that you pay me to be here and to care my nights, my 429 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,840 weekends, not as big of a deal. So I think the workaholic nature 430 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,160 of some previous generations, there's going to be this 431 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,960 clashing of like they don't seem as committed and it's like they 432 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,480 might just be appropriately and at a healthy level committed to 433 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,680 their jobs. Because this generation is, I 434 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,240 think, much louder about the mindset of like, I'm working to 435 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,960 live, not living to work. We're previous generations, 436 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,360 we've been told you need to live to work. 437 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:17,840 You need to cut your teeth until you're about 45 and you're the 438 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,560 senior manager and you can do whatever you want. 439 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,080 Yeah, it's true. And Gen. 440 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,360 Z is like, Nope, not doing that. And so this mindset of like, 441 00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:27,720 yeah, your Gen. Z employees might sign off at 5 442 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,520 and you probably won't hear from them until 9:00 AM the next day, 443 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,640 unless they have opted into taking on a flexible work 444 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,640 environment where they might not clock in until 10 AM. 445 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,880 They might work until 3:00, but then they're going to cry them 446 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,440 out, work from 8:00 to 10:00 PM, and they're going to get the 447 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,280 same amount of work done. And so this element, I just 448 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,760 think that their desire for flexibility, the element of 449 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,960 fluidity, and then this preservation of taking care of 450 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,440 their human self is going to rub wrong against some older 451 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,920 generations who have just been like, that's not how you get 452 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,080 ahead in the world. And they're like, I don't care 453 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,160 about getting ahead in the world. 454 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,520 I just want a job and I just want my paycheck and that's OK. 455 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:13,400 Yeah, especially thinking about that if an older generation is 456 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:18,520 managing a member of Gen. Z and even in a flexible work 457 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:23,880 environment, if there's a lack of trust or even from this older 458 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,320 generation, really not understanding that this is just 459 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,960 kind of part and parcel for who Gen. 460 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,400 Z is and how they prefer to operate. 461 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,760 That there's like this enforcement potentially of what, 462 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,360 quote, UN quote, is the right way to work. 463 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,720 And we see this already. It might not even be with Gen. 464 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:42,960 Z. It could be with millennials. 465 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,440 I'm a millennial who really appreciates flexibility and 466 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,440 work. And I don't think I'd be really 467 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,080 happy if someone was like, no, you have to work this amount of 468 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,160 hours at this certain part of the day, and there's no 469 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,920 flexibility in that. And so I could see there being 470 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,800 tension created from that also, which is really what you were 471 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:08,440 saying too, around what potentially is seen as being an 472 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,600 effective way of working, which isn't necessarily, as we know, 473 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,320 even from the pandemic and the way of working totally changing 474 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,440 and being turned on its head. We know that there are people 475 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,680 who believe that the right way of working is X and the right 476 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,840 way of working is Y for another person or from a different 477 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,400 generation. And I think if anything, we've 478 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,960 learned that there isn't really just one way of working. 479 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,360 We've even known this for those who are neurodivergent, that 480 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:37,560 there are different ways for people to work and the end 481 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,160 result could be the same, It's just a matter of how they got to 482 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,000 that end result could look totally different. 483 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,040 So I think that's reasonable. Yeah. 484 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,160 And if I can, like I always want to kind of point out some of the 485 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,000 stuff we found in our studies, like we did a replication study 486 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,560 from 2014 to 2021 and like we asked Gen. 487 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,440 Z to tell us the top characteristics of what best 488 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,640 describes them consistently across those two years, 489 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,320 different groups of Gen. Z Ers, but similar list. 490 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,360 Responsibility was one of the top characteristics or top 491 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:13,600 characteristics. Being responsible was one of the 492 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,160 things that they identify with most. 493 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,600 And sometimes people will say like, you can't be talking about 494 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,240 the people on my team, but I that also comes down to who do 495 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,480 they feel responsible to? It's not someone that they can't 496 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,480 trust. It's not someone that peers over 497 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,240 their shoulder. It's not someone that treats 498 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,640 them like a child. It's not someone that is 499 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,240 constantly micromanaging them. Responsibility comes and feeling 500 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,000 responsible to someone knows that. 501 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,320 It's a reciprocal relationship. And so if you want to leverage 502 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,640 the best characteristics and traits of Gen. 503 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,840 Z, you have to build an honest and authentic relationship with 504 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,760 them and show that you care about them. 505 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,480 And that's like with any employee group. 506 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,560 But like with this generation, they need to know that that's an 507 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,360 honest and authentic relationship, not a surface 508 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:00,000 level transactional relationship. 509 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,960 Right, right. Where other generations might be 510 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,520 able to just kind of go with it and allow that surface level 511 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,800 transactional relationship to live and exist because they're 512 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,840 just making it work for Gen. Z. 513 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,920 It's a more critical, like must have in order for them to feel 514 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,160 satisfied in the workplace. Yeah, that's really interesting. 515 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,800 Yeah, super interesting. I mean, of course, many of the 516 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:29,120 listeners, most of the listeners are in HR or trying to break 517 00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:31,760 into HR. And the majority of listeners 518 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,160 are either Gen. Z millennials. 519 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,320 Let me think that it's like 25 to 46 is the majority of 520 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,400 listeners of this podcast. So what is that? 521 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,800 That's Gen. Z and millennials right? 522 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,920 At this point, 46 is yeah. So when I think about that, you 523 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,960 know, it's also to your point, like some people are probably 524 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:54,240 depending on where we define like mid level in their careers, 525 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,320 they they could be decision makers, they could be at senior 526 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,320 parts of their careers are in senior leadership roles. 527 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,840 And I think there is a real responsibility coming back to a 528 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,560 critical word for Gen. ZA, real responsibility for 529 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,000 listeners who are, you know, thinking about ways that they 530 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,880 can impact their own workplace to really think about rather 531 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,320 than taking A1 size fits all approach to solving problems, 532 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,920 really thinking about who makes up their workforce. 533 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,920 How do we solve problems depending on potentially which 534 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,840 generations are represented? Because those problems could be 535 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,440 different. They could be the same, but they 536 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:35,000 could look different for each cohort depending on where they 537 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,480 sit. And, and I just think, you know, 538 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,080 hearing some of the research that you've done and some of 539 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,240 the, the outcomes that you've, that your research has, has 540 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:50,240 realized in a way, it helps me to even think about my role and 541 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:55,920 how even driving engagement within a team or within a 542 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,080 department or company could even look a little bit different. 543 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,440 So I'm curious in your research or in what you've seen, are 544 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,720 there ways that HR leaders or business leaders in general can 545 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,080 better engage their employees, especially Gen. 546 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,880 Z? Because knowing what we know 547 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,280 that there is a very clear delineation between work and 548 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,960 home or work and personal life, does engaging that population 549 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,800 look a little bit different too? Yeah, I think where the 550 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,520 intersection of my work and your work comes to together is this 551 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,040 idea of like bringing human back into things. 552 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,720 Gen. Z has lived their life online. 553 00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:38,920 They crave human connection. They actually will constantly 554 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,280 say, like, I would like to connect with people in person. 555 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,160 I'm a little apprehensive to do so because I spent two years in 556 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,600 my home like, and at a critical time when they should have been 557 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,520 learning interpersonal skill development. 558 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,840 And so I think that when I think about what what HR leaders can 559 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,040 really do is like you and I both know that HR gets like a bad rap 560 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,240 for just being like the compliance policy people when in 561 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,360 reality, like human is right in the name and like they want 562 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:07,960 human connection. I'm not saying go be their 563 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,840 friend, but there's a way to have a good relationship with 564 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,480 those people and to be an honest and real person. 565 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,760 I think about one of my favorite HR people at a job that I had 566 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,800 that was just like the nicest lady in the world that acted. 567 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,160 She was, she's definitely baby boomer, but she acted like she 568 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,840 was our aunt, like everybody. We were a bunch of really young 569 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,920 millennials in the office and she acted like our aunt. 570 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,080 She was like, you got a dentist, you need a dentist. 571 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,760 Here's a dentist, you need a doctor, here's a doctor. 572 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,520 Here's how you get your like, she actually recognized where 573 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,560 we're at in our lives. And I was like, you 26 year olds 574 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,720 need to get your teeth looked at and you need to make sure you're 575 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,720 like going and getting your primary care checkup. 576 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,560 So it's like this idea of like care and human connection. 577 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,400 And yes, though the work needs to get done, but I've always 578 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,280 been a fan. And I see this especially with 579 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,640 this generation, the work will get done if they know the human 580 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,760 that it impacts. They need to know you before 581 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,840 they can buy into you. You can't expect to say, well, 582 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,760 I'm the the senior manager of HR and then be like, OK, your rules 583 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,320 junkie, like what do you want from me? 584 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,200 It's this matter of like, no, we Tracy's awesome. 585 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,840 Tracy helps us and she's a real person and a real human that I 586 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,600 have a connection to. So yeah, I do need to follow up 587 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,320 about like that policy stuff or whatever it might have been. 588 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,720 There's this idea that there's an opportunity. 589 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,280 I think regardless if you're in HR or you're just a manager, 590 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:30,840 Gen. Z wants human connection. 591 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,440 We all do. But we have to remember that 592 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,840 they went through a really weird period of time where they didn't 593 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,640 get to have that human connection at a pivotal time 594 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,680 when their their young adult brains are literally wired to 595 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,240 learn how to develop relationships. 596 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,600 Yeah, that's so important. I really love everything that 597 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,440 you said. And I was really giggling a lot 598 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,520 at some of the the ways that you said it and I I mean it. 599 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,240 It really makes so much sense to me. 600 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,400 I think actually I'll share an anecdote here too. 601 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,920 I was speaking recently with one of our employees who is a member 602 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:10,320 of Gen. Z and very successful recent 603 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:16,640 college grad who went to a top school and is in a very 604 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,240 important and critical job for us. 605 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:24,680 And she was talking to me about how, I don't want to say 606 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,760 desperately, but in a way like how eager she was to meet people 607 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,920 in person. We all work remotely and there 608 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,520 aren't many people in her city, let alone in her state. 609 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,880 And she was like, I really like, I wish that I had more of that 610 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,000 connection. I love what I do. 611 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,600 I love the work that I do. I love where I work. 612 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,280 But I just, you know, there's something missing for me. 613 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,040 Basically, that's the message that at least I received. 614 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,360 And without putting words in her mouth, you know, I think there 615 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,080 is. And I'm putting her experience 616 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,240 with other experiences of Gen. Z employees that I've either 617 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,520 worked with in the past or have worked with recently who have 618 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:10,960 spoken with who really do emphasize that need for in 619 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,120 person connection. And I remember one of the first 620 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,760 times that she and I had connected, she told me that part 621 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:21,520 of her college experience was at home and she had was taking 622 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,200 classes online. And I remember at least like 623 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,280 just for me, when I got my master's, I was doing it online 624 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,000 by choice. And I remember during COVID, I 625 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:38,560 was thinking about how sorry I felt for students in that 626 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,640 present moment who didn't get the opportunities that I had 627 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,640 being in person for college or for some high schoolers or 628 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,360 middle schoolers or elementary schoolers. 629 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,600 And I remember reflecting on how different I might have turned 630 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,520 out if I didn't have some of those critical years of 631 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,200 development. And to your point, those those 632 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,040 moments that were so crucial to our development within 633 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,800 interpersonal skills. And you know, I think I, I guess 634 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,720 I think as an HR professional that there are, there are 635 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,400 always, there's always going to be a reason not to meet in 636 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,160 person because it costs X amount or because it's a lot of work 637 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,360 and it, you know, requires all of these logistics and planning 638 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,360 and all that jazz. But when I think about the ROI 639 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,320 and the return on that investment, it's probably so 640 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,960 great, especially when we think about who is going to be in that 641 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,040 cohort of people meeting together. 642 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:41,000 So I mean it really it did. It reiterated for me that there 643 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,280 is so much that someone who is a member of Gen. 644 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,520 Z is yearning for, and that that personal connection is so, so 645 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,680 important. So that is my anecdote there. 646 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,800 Yeah. And if I can, if I can trim in 647 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,480 there for our friends that are working for predominantly remote 648 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,360 companies. And it is, it's hard to be like, 649 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,320 how do you simulate in person, right? 650 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,840 And I've worked for a fully remote company and I was like, 651 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,040 sort of, I was in HR, but I was like people culture, right? 652 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,520 And something we did was we instituted like everybody got X 653 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,920 amount of dollars per week to go work at a coffee shop because it 654 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,480 was just like getting out of your home and interacting with 655 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,159 humans, like the barista, the other people at the other table 656 00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:24,719 or like to go to a Co working space. 657 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,760 Something like it was like I called it like the get out the 658 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,360 house money, like get out the house and like go be with the 659 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,719 humans. Our actual HR called it like I 660 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,560 forget like the coffee stipend, but it was like I called, I was 661 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:36,639 joking. Like if you didn't use your get 662 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:37,800 out the house money, that's on you. 663 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,199 Like you cannot complain. I like that one better. 664 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,320 But the but the other the other piece of it is managers out 665 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,000 there like you have so much control to like make this a good 666 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,040 experience for people and every young person, a young person, 667 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,880 but like Jones here that I've worked with say that I have a 30 668 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,360 minute weekly check in schedule for them. 669 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,520 I schedule it for 45. And I intentionally for lack of 670 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,040 arts mod to curse on this podcast. 671 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:02,840 Yeah. Yeah, why not? 672 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:04,960 I call it the shoot the shit 10 minutes. 673 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,000 Like we just, what are we talking about? 674 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,280 Silly nonsense like it doesn't like because those 10 minutes I 675 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,160 can sacrifice to know that for the next 30, I'm gonna have 676 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,520 those young people locked in because we've just spent 10 677 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,600 minutes building or building a relationship. 678 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,560 And that's an opportunity for that informal mentoring that so 679 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:23,680 many Gen. Z ers want. 680 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,640 That's an opportunity to buy into what's going on in their 681 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,160 life and realize that like, yes, the whole world isn't it feels 682 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,520 like it's on fire all the time, but at least we have a little 683 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,360 bit of a human connection. And so like, I find those two 684 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,360 men, those 10 minutes at the beginning of a meeting to just 685 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:39,920 honestly shoot the shit and do nothing. 686 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:42,480 And like honestly have friend time. 687 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,080 Not best friend time, but just like friend time. 688 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:47,720 Talk about anything. Yeah, yeah. 689 00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:50,600 Talk about anything is so helpful because it also just 690 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,400 shows like I'm willing to give you some time and I never say 691 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,880 like, OK, 10 minutes is over. It's a natural progression 692 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,720 because young people and anybody really comes to a meeting with 693 00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:02,200 their supervisor or someone and says, I moved to get this done 694 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,800 because we have an agenda. So that naturally does 695 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,240 transition at about the seven to 10 minute mark and to like, 696 00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:09,280 let's accomplish the things we said we were going to talk about 697 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,440 on this call. But you have you, you're making 698 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:13,920 memories, you're spending time with people. 699 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,440 And I really do think that time is the most valuable asset of 700 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:21,240 any company. And yes, we we should be having 701 00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:24,120 purposeful meetings, but people that are more connected to their 702 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,160 work. This is in like every study ever 703 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,680 done by like Mackenzie and PwC, people that are more connected 704 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,640 to the people they work with are more likely to stay. 705 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,600 And you don't find connection over spreadsheets. 706 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,960 I'm sorry, you just don't. No you don't. 707 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,360 I love that. I think everyone should add 708 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,440 shoot the shit time to their one on ones their touch bases. 709 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,360 I'm into that. I'm adding that to my 710 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,120 repertoire. Dude, what are you talking 711 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:48,360 about? Don't know yet, but it's gonna 712 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,160 be a nice time. Right, that's amazing. 713 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,960 Megan, I can't thank you enough for sharing all of your insights 714 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,560 and like the research that you've done, like extensive 715 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,240 research that you've done. And I'm super excited to 716 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,400 celebrate you when you have your new book come out. 717 00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:09,080 And maybe it's out by the time this episode airs. 718 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,320 But either way, we'll make sure everyone knows where to connect 719 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:13,960 with you and learn more in the show notes. 720 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:19,040 But I just so appreciate you sharing more and I guess just so 721 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,000 those who want to hear it from you, where can they connect? 722 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,960 And of course the links as I mentioned, will be in the show 723 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,200 notes. Yeah, my website is kind of a 724 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,280 good hub. Megan M grace.com. 725 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,480 Megan is spelt Meghan. I've got that extra H in there 726 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,920 because I'm, I'm Irish. My parents needed to keep it 727 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,200 cultural but the the other places I'm pretty active on 728 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,840 LinkedIn and Instagram and Threads. 729 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,200 But I do give you the caveat if you follow me on threads, it's 730 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,360 mostly just me talking about the TV I'm watching. 731 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,800 So if you need to turn your brain off, that's also a good 732 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,760 place to hang out. But you can find me on social 733 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,640 media at at Megan M Grace everywhere. 734 00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,800 And then we do have a website for our institute, Institute for 735 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:05,200 Generational Research and Education, and that is Institute 736 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:09,080 for like the number 4jens.com. And then we're also on LinkedIn. 737 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,800 So we share kind of across those more formally some of those 738 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,800 things, but I'm pretty easy to find if you know how to spell my 739 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,640 name. Love that. 740 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,360 We'll definitely make sure it's spelled correctly both in the 741 00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:22,960 episode info, in the show notes, of course. 742 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,680 But thank you so much and I'm excited to be on your podcast as 743 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,040 well. So for the listeners who want to 744 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,440 catch me there and hear more of Megan's wise words of wisdom and 745 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,320 other guests that she's had on, make sure you check out the #Gen 746 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,880 Z podcast. Megan, thank you so much. 747 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,280 Thanks, Tracy. Hey, just before you go, don't 748 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,360 forget to subscribe to the show so that you are the. 1st to hear 749 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,760 when an. Episode drops each week and 750 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,440 maybe leave a five star review and a comment about how much you 751 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,280 loved this episode. Plus if you have someone in mind 752 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,440 who would really enjoy this episode, make sure you share it 753 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:56,320 with them. Thank you. 754 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:57,800 So much for tuning. In and I'll. 755 00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:58,800 See you next week.