Welcome back to the Bringing the human Back to Human resources
podcast, The Replay series. I'm your host, Tracy Turn off,
and I'm thrilled to have you join us once again as we journey
through the episodes that have top charts around the world.
In this podcast series, we're revisiting some of our most
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back in time and immerse ourselves into the podcasts top
charted episodes. Let the replay.
Begin. Welcome to the Bringing the
Human Back to Human Resources podcast.
I'm Tracy Chernoff, and I've spent my entire professional
career in HR. Each week, we'll explore the
delicate balance between people and business, with the aim to
reconnect the two and create meaningful outcomes.
Listen in as I share my own experiences, challenge the
status quo, and chat with guests from various industries about
our mission to bring the human back to human.
Resources. Hi, everyone.
Welcome back to the Bringing the Human Back to Human Resources
podcast. Thank you so much for being here
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This week we're going to spend quite a bit of time talking
about generational differences in the workplace, specifically
Gen. Z, which I think we might have
talked about a little bit before on the podcast, but definitely
not enough because the generational differences and the
number of generations in the workplace is pretty significant
these days. So to do this I have on my guest
here, Megan, who has heard the line Millennials are killing the
fill in the blank industry one too many times and has channeled
her energy into helping people create more collaborative
experiences across generations since 2014.
Doctor Megan Grace is a leading generational expert whose
research on Gen. Z spans the last decade and has
helped companies, universities, and associations around the
world understand generations to work Better Together.
Megan prioritizes understanding the human experience while
providing data informed insights about generations.
Guided by multiple studies, Doctor Grace helps connect the
dots between getting to know generation and knowing what
makes them tick. She is the host of the podcast
#Gen Z and has co-authored 3 books on Generation Z with her
new book Generations in the World of Work coming out later
this year. When she isn't researching,
speaking, writing or podcasting about generations, she Co leads
the Institute for Generational Research and Education.
Doctor Grace Megan, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you. Yeah, We can go by Megan.
I feel like when we intro with the doctor, they're like, can
you give me medical advice? And I'm like, absolutely not.
I mean, we can Google your symptoms together.
No doctor in education. Still a very valid one.
Our first lady, Joe Biden, has one.
But it's wonderful to be here. Tracy, thanks for having me.
Of course. Thank you so much.
And as I had mentioned at the top of the podcast, there's so
much to discuss when it comes to generations, generational
differences, how they impact the workplace.
But obviously, it goes without saying, as we read in your bio,
that Gen. Z, and especially given that
this is a whole podcast for you, is a major focus point for you,
not only in your research, but also in what you share and what
you're passionate about talking about.
So maybe we have to start there. Maybe we need to start with who
is Gen. Z?
Who are they made-up of? What ages are they and what are
some of the differences that we see related to Gen.
Z specifically? Yeah.
So Gen. Z, we use the the age range of
1985 to 2010. So when we're thinking about who
those people are in society in this day of 2024, that is
college students, like some high school students who are seeing
like they're kind of growing out of high school, predominantly in
college. They are the predominant college
population, but they're also that young adult new hire in
most industries. So think anything from 18 to
almost 3018 to 29. They're turning 30 next year.
If everyone wants to feel elderly, the oldest of Gen.
Z will be 30 next year. They're freaking out.
We're freaking out. Everybody's freaking out.
But so they are really squarely in higher education and higher
Ed has been hanging out with them for a little while and
trying to to pivot and adapt to this generation and like the
generate the demographic shift not only in like who they are,
but this year, number of them or smaller number of them is the
better way to put that. But the, the corporate space and
the world of work is really, they were sneaking in there and
they're pretty solidly almost 10 years of them in the workspace
now. So many of them are, I don't
know where we put that cut off of like approaching of their mid
career, but some of them have been in roles for five to seven
years now. And so they're, they're there.
They, they have their workplace habits and they are, I don't
want to say shaking up the world of work.
They are doing what a new generation does when they get to
a new phase of life, which is bring their own perspectives and
their own values, behaviors, trends, mindsets into those
environments. They did it in education.
They've done it as they've gone to college, and they're doing it
again as they're going into work.
They're going to do it as they more predominantly become
parents and leading families. And so that's just like the
interesting thing when we're thinking about this generation
is it's not like they were quietly entering, right?
Like we actually have, millennials are the most studied
generation to date, Gen. Z's like right after them.
And that's just the advancement of being able to study large
groups of people and like conduct demographic studies like
we oftentimes do, right? So with this generation, I mean,
we know the age range. We know that this generation is,
if you're paying attention to people within that age, they're
very socially driven, not in the idea of like, I need to have a
lot of friends, but really this mindset of like social change
oriented and trying to make the world a better place.
Like that's a big motivation of theirs is helping others, but
they're also very digital, very digitally defined generation.
It's not the only thing that defines this generation, but it
is something that's unique. Like they have truly, they
cannot picture a world when we did not have the Internet.
They, they just can't fathom it, not a single day.
And so like, that's just like a very different, like
millennials. I think we've been on the train
of being like, technology's good, let's learn new
technology. But we could also be like, we
knew there was a time when we didn't have it and like, or it
was very slow or it was more of a commodity as opposed to like a
necessity for Gen. Z, it's always been a necessity.
Like they really don't have any conscious memories before the
iPhone. Oh my God.
Wow, yeah. So like things to like think
about is the the way that technology is adapted alongside
them while they're also just developing what are normal human
life skills of communication, navigating the world,
understanding people, getting jobs, going to school.
Technology has been such a strong undercurrent for this
generation. And it's just really it's
embedded in their DNA. But they also recognize like the
double edged sword the technology plays.
So that's like just a snippet about Gen.
Z. I know there's so much more we
could talk about, but, and I know that we will get there, but
that is just like the really quick and the quick and The
Dirty of who they are. It's this the young adult
generation, the latter teens, they're really in that.
I think that unique, malleable time in life, which is actually
when we want to study generations is when they are
developing and forming their, their personal worldview, their
identity set their values. So from a generational lens,
that's when like generational theorists like myself come in
and we're like, Oh, this is the time to understand this group.
Like we don't want to do it any earlier because we don't, we
don't, I mean, when you're 12, you're, you're not, yes, you're
developing who you are, but you're not fully there yet.
A lot of it is the understanding through the lens of your
parents, your guardians, your family members and like your
immediate circle. It's not till we get to those
teen and young adult years that we really can start to develop
what would be like a generational identity.
That is so fascinating, thank you for sharing that.
I mean, I am still a little hung up on this understanding that
they that Gen. Z does not really have a view of
the world without some of these critical advances in technology
like the iPhone, like non dial up Internet.
Because I can like I think about dial up.
I can hear the sound. I distinctly remember what life
was like before having a computer and after having a
computer, which certainly was a commodity.
I would say it's just so interesting because I feel like
I might sound like the boomer that said millennials or this
millennials or that one. I'm like, oh, Gen.
Z is like this and Gen. Z is like that.
But actually that is kind of the beauty of having generational
differences is that we have our own generational identity, to
your point, and we compare ourselves to other generations,
just like as a millennial, I can compare myself to Gen.
X or the boomers who my parents are.
And so it's just like really interesting to me.
And and given all the research that you've done, I'm curious
especially from a theoretical standpoint, are there
predictions on what Gen. Z will be like when they are
even they probably are already decision makers in business.
But I guess maybe more broadly, regardless of whether they're
decision makers, not what, what Gen.
Z will be like in the workforce as time continues to pass and as
other generations then are added to the workforce.
Yeah, so we're actually probably in a really good place with
having spent about 10 years thinking about Gen.
Z as young adults. Like I frame them all kind of as
young adults. We have about 10 years of our
understanding of them. And So what we tend to do in,
yes, there's actual social science that goes into
understanding generations. People probably they probably
think it's like a BuzzFeed quiz, but it's it's really being able
to like know how the human identity is shaped.
And then how do we do that as a collective in response to
society? So like that's like the really
quick and dirty of like how we would understand a generation.
When we're looking at Gen. Z, we've been looking at them
for about 10 years in this kind of like lens of life and
thinking about the things that influence a generation, we tend
to look at what are the things technologically going on?
What are the things in society from like a social issues
perspective? What are the things going on
economically? And then what are the things
that are going on like politically and government wise,
like what is the kind of like the geopolitical landscape that
they live in? Because all of those things are
intertwined. Like they're so coupled
together. So really we take a good hard
look at life and what society is doling out to them during those
years. And we say, how are people going
to respond to that? And like, when we've looked at
Gen. Z, there have been some really
clear markers, right? Like the technological
advancement and how it allows people to connect and be
informed. Like that's a big one for Gen.
Z, like being informed and connected in a very unique way
that's different than previous generations, but we've also seen
that they've lived through and what millennials like, we kind
of feel like we're all together in this one is like
unprecedented times where we kind of always feel like we're
living through another historical event every single
day. And a relative for Gen.
Z looking at that and saying, well, like 2000 year session
happened, that wasn't great. Started jobs in the middle of
the pandemic that wasn't great. There's war all over the place,
apparently, like the climate is on fire and we can't even go to
school and be safe. So like Gen.
Z looks at the world and they're kind of like, it's scary out
there. And a future is not certain that
it's been present for like the the last 10 years of them
developing their worldview is like what the world is spitting
back to them is like, first of all, it's scary out here.
Second of all, it's expensive out here.
And so they're very like, it's this interesting balance that
they bring to it of like being very cognizant of the fact that
there's problems in the world and that they have to take care
of themselves to even be able to navigate those problems.
The other piece of it is they're like, I don't say they're
doomsday preppers, but they are always kind of prepared for the
next rainy day, whether that's financially or trying to think
about some level of uncertainty. And when we think about like the
major issues that they tend to tell us that they care about in
all of our studies, it is there's this undercurrent of
wanting stability in their own personal lives, stable housing,
access to healthcare, stable jobs.
Like they're not asking for like everyone to have a starting
salary of 6 figures. They're like, I want to pay my
bills and be able to support my family.
Wild stuff. And then the other piece of it,
like, while they, it feels like they're laden with like what
sounds like a terrible adulthood, they also deeply care
about making the world a better place.
Like they look at the world and they say this is not so great
sometimes, but there's so much opportunity to improve things.
And I think when we we look at how they are really driven by
making the world a better place. I put quotes around that because
everyone's world feels different and helping people out.
What we, I think, are prepared for in the workplace to really
get to your question is that this generation kind of brings
the balance of nihilism and optimism at the same time.
This idea that like, let's be real about the big issues in our
world and let's also do what we can to make it better at the
same time. And I think that the that to me,
what I hear from a workplace perspective is this is a
generation that is if given the opportunity and engaged in the
right way, are going to be the people that are going to help
improve some of the cultural issues we have within our
workplaces. As well as just the opportunity
to make things more efficient and potentially operate a little
bit better. Because this is a very much so a
generation that's like, let's work smarter, not harder on this
one people. Right.
And and not to cut you off, I'm sure you, you have more to add
to that. But when I think about that
especially, I do think about something that you said a little
bit earlier, which was around this, you know, kind of being
the catalyst for a lot of change.
I'm, I don't think I'm quoting you verbatim there, but I did an
episode maybe last year, sometime last year around how
Gen. Z is really quite admirable for
their approach to workplace challenges.
In my opinion. Because I think it was at that
time that I was seeing a lot of these trends that where people,
especially those in Gen. Z, were challenging the status
quo. And they were saying, hey, if
you're not gonna change the way that you interact with me and
the people that I work with, meaning businesses, leaders,
etc. And you're not gonna make this a
better place to work, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go and find
something else. And I remember reflecting on my
own experience in some challenging environments in my
past where I was like, I've got to make it work.
I'm lucky to have a job. And, you know, jobs are hard to
come by. And I remember in that episode
thinking, well, that is such a such a drastic difference in
response to cultural workplace challenges.
And as a millennial, like I can honestly reflect on being told
that, you know, you have to respect authority.
And no matter what someone says, like if they are higher ranking,
like you're going to have to follow direction and challenging
the status quo could make could mean that you're making waves in
your job or in your experience. It could mean that you get
fired. And if you get fired, then what
are you going to do? And even though I am a
self-proclaimed challenge challenger of the status quo, I
think I can do that now because I feel more stable in my career.
But early on, I would never think of really making waves,
maybe like teeny tiny little ripples.
But I think Gen. Z is in very, very many ways the
antithesis to that perspective because they are like, well, I
don't have to stay here. I can go and find another job.
I can go and be an influencer. I can create my own company.
Like there's just such a drastic difference and I really applaud
them for that. You know, obviously I'm speaking
very generally here, but that's my my initial thought on what
you've shared. Well, and I think that Gen.
Z kind of has this mindset of like, you don't need me, like,
or I don't need you as much as you need me, right?
And like they do have more opportunity.
And it kind of just feels like they have this like absolute
unwavering spirit of entrepreneurship, even when
they're working within a company and they didn't start it and
they don't own it. Like this idea of improvement
and solving a problem. Like that's what an
entrepreneurial mindset actually is, is doing business to solve a
problem. And I think for them, they are
drawn to entrepreneurship for the flexibility, for the
freedom, right? Everybody wants that.
Anyone that's like, oh, they don't want to work.
I'm like, you have been lied to. I think that for Gen.
Z, they look at it and I don't even know if it's like
challenging the status quo or being disrespectful.
It's questioning because they don't they don't know what they
don't know. And so they might ask a question
about a policy and it'll come across as like, well, maybe we
were, maybe they were being disrespectful because they don't
want to follow the policy. But in reality, they're like,
hey, I'm new here. I don't know why this policy
exists. Can you please give me some
background on this? And people kind of take that
personally for whatever reason. And I'm like, don't take it
personally. They don't know what they don't
know. They're new here.
You at one point didn't know that either.
And I think for millennials, we were very much so told like,
show up, do your job, listen to the boss, follow the rules and
you'll be rewarded. Once again, we fell for the
scam. And that's not always the case.
Like it is not always the case. And Gen.
Z's like, I'm not going to be scammed by this.
I want you to be honest with me and I want you to be true with
me. And millennials.
We really did. And it and it comes from because
that model worked for our baby boomer parents.
The economy changed so drastically and the workforce
changed so drastically right around the 2000s and
the.likethe.com era, when technology really did shake up a
lot in the way that we thought about work.
And it impacted millennials and the economy shifted in this
mindset. But we were playing by rules.
Millennials were playing by rules that were designed for and
by baby boomers, the Gen. Xers.
It didn't, it wasn't disadvantaging them.
And so, like, we look at it and we're like, how bold of these
John's ears to come in and ask these questions.
I would have never done that. But that's also we're just given
a set of rules that really I don't think was designed for
millennials to succeed. And I love the tenacity of Gen.
Z because again, I've had to do a lot of self coaching, like
when students or interns or newer hires ask questions like,
why is it like this? And I don't take it as like, why
are you like that, Megan? It's more like, can you explain
to me the historical context of why things are the way that they
are? And then they might say, but
what if we did XY and Z and it saved us 5 hours a week?
And you're like, you're a genius, right?
It's it's this mindset of don't get mad about it just answer the
question. And see where that conversation
takes you. But it's just I go on and on
about like this misconception around Gen.
Z, it being like they want to, they want to shake up the
challenge, like status quo and they want to break everything.
I'm like, no, Jen, they're not getting together.
I promise you, they're not getting together on the corners
of the Internet to say let's go make all our bosses mad.
Right. No, they just are asking
questions that we might not have asked before.
Or answers Fresh fresh set of eyes we love.
We hire consultants for that. Yeah, it's really true.
We do. We do.
Every company pretty much does. So now that we know much more
clearly who Gen. Z is and what they're like and
more often than not in the workplace, what are some things
that create could create, let's say, because it doesn't always.
But what are some things that could create tension between
intergenerational workforces and generational differences in the
workforce? Because certainly, I'm sure you
and I can think of a time where we might have clashed with a
different generation because of the way that we work or the way
that we think. So what are some of those things
that listeners might want to keep an eye out for?
So I think for Gen. Z especially, they are
incredibly protective of one, their self worth and their
self-care. And I don't think there's been
the other generations who have gone in and been like, I'm going
to sacrifice my life, my happiness and potentially my
family to have this job. Just seems like that's a heap of
garbage. We're not doing that.
And they're doing it at such a young age.
And so again, it comes back to like other generations look at
that. And they're like the audacity of
the youth to say that this job isn't important.
And they're like, no, it's important to me that 8 hours a
day that you pay me to be here and to care my nights, my
weekends, not as big of a deal. So I think the workaholic nature
of some previous generations, there's going to be this
clashing of like they don't seem as committed and it's like they
might just be appropriately and at a healthy level committed to
their jobs. Because this generation is, I
think, much louder about the mindset of like, I'm working to
live, not living to work. We're previous generations,
we've been told you need to live to work.
You need to cut your teeth until you're about 45 and you're the
senior manager and you can do whatever you want.
Yeah, it's true. And Gen.
Z is like, Nope, not doing that. And so this mindset of like,
yeah, your Gen. Z employees might sign off at 5
and you probably won't hear from them until 9:00 AM the next day,
unless they have opted into taking on a flexible work
environment where they might not clock in until 10 AM.
They might work until 3:00, but then they're going to cry them
out, work from 8:00 to 10:00 PM, and they're going to get the
same amount of work done. And so this element, I just
think that their desire for flexibility, the element of
fluidity, and then this preservation of taking care of
their human self is going to rub wrong against some older
generations who have just been like, that's not how you get
ahead in the world. And they're like, I don't care
about getting ahead in the world.
I just want a job and I just want my paycheck and that's OK.
Yeah, especially thinking about that if an older generation is
managing a member of Gen. Z and even in a flexible work
environment, if there's a lack of trust or even from this older
generation, really not understanding that this is just
kind of part and parcel for who Gen.
Z is and how they prefer to operate.
That there's like this enforcement potentially of what,
quote, UN quote, is the right way to work.
And we see this already. It might not even be with Gen.
Z. It could be with millennials.
I'm a millennial who really appreciates flexibility and
work. And I don't think I'd be really
happy if someone was like, no, you have to work this amount of
hours at this certain part of the day, and there's no
flexibility in that. And so I could see there being
tension created from that also, which is really what you were
saying too, around what potentially is seen as being an
effective way of working, which isn't necessarily, as we know,
even from the pandemic and the way of working totally changing
and being turned on its head. We know that there are people
who believe that the right way of working is X and the right
way of working is Y for another person or from a different
generation. And I think if anything, we've
learned that there isn't really just one way of working.
We've even known this for those who are neurodivergent, that
there are different ways for people to work and the end
result could be the same, It's just a matter of how they got to
that end result could look totally different.
So I think that's reasonable. Yeah.
And if I can, like I always want to kind of point out some of the
stuff we found in our studies, like we did a replication study
from 2014 to 2021 and like we asked Gen.
Z to tell us the top characteristics of what best
describes them consistently across those two years,
different groups of Gen. Z Ers, but similar list.
Responsibility was one of the top characteristics or top
characteristics. Being responsible was one of the
things that they identify with most.
And sometimes people will say like, you can't be talking about
the people on my team, but I that also comes down to who do
they feel responsible to? It's not someone that they can't
trust. It's not someone that peers over
their shoulder. It's not someone that treats
them like a child. It's not someone that is
constantly micromanaging them. Responsibility comes and feeling
responsible to someone knows that.
It's a reciprocal relationship. And so if you want to leverage
the best characteristics and traits of Gen.
Z, you have to build an honest and authentic relationship with
them and show that you care about them.
And that's like with any employee group.
But like with this generation, they need to know that that's an
honest and authentic relationship, not a surface
level transactional relationship.
Right, right. Where other generations might be
able to just kind of go with it and allow that surface level
transactional relationship to live and exist because they're
just making it work for Gen. Z.
It's a more critical, like must have in order for them to feel
satisfied in the workplace. Yeah, that's really interesting.
Yeah, super interesting. I mean, of course, many of the
listeners, most of the listeners are in HR or trying to break
into HR. And the majority of listeners
are either Gen. Z millennials.
Let me think that it's like 25 to 46 is the majority of
listeners of this podcast. So what is that?
That's Gen. Z and millennials right?
At this point, 46 is yeah. So when I think about that, you
know, it's also to your point, like some people are probably
depending on where we define like mid level in their careers,
they they could be decision makers, they could be at senior
parts of their careers are in senior leadership roles.
And I think there is a real responsibility coming back to a
critical word for Gen. ZA, real responsibility for
listeners who are, you know, thinking about ways that they
can impact their own workplace to really think about rather
than taking A1 size fits all approach to solving problems,
really thinking about who makes up their workforce.
How do we solve problems depending on potentially which
generations are represented? Because those problems could be
different. They could be the same, but they
could look different for each cohort depending on where they
sit. And, and I just think, you know,
hearing some of the research that you've done and some of
the, the outcomes that you've, that your research has, has
realized in a way, it helps me to even think about my role and
how even driving engagement within a team or within a
department or company could even look a little bit different.
So I'm curious in your research or in what you've seen, are
there ways that HR leaders or business leaders in general can
better engage their employees, especially Gen.
Z? Because knowing what we know
that there is a very clear delineation between work and
home or work and personal life, does engaging that population
look a little bit different too? Yeah, I think where the
intersection of my work and your work comes to together is this
idea of like bringing human back into things.
Gen. Z has lived their life online.
They crave human connection. They actually will constantly
say, like, I would like to connect with people in person.
I'm a little apprehensive to do so because I spent two years in
my home like, and at a critical time when they should have been
learning interpersonal skill development.
And so I think that when I think about what what HR leaders can
really do is like you and I both know that HR gets like a bad rap
for just being like the compliance policy people when in
reality, like human is right in the name and like they want
human connection. I'm not saying go be their
friend, but there's a way to have a good relationship with
those people and to be an honest and real person.
I think about one of my favorite HR people at a job that I had
that was just like the nicest lady in the world that acted.
She was, she's definitely baby boomer, but she acted like she
was our aunt, like everybody. We were a bunch of really young
millennials in the office and she acted like our aunt.
She was like, you got a dentist, you need a dentist.
Here's a dentist, you need a doctor, here's a doctor.
Here's how you get your like, she actually recognized where
we're at in our lives. And I was like, you 26 year olds
need to get your teeth looked at and you need to make sure you're
like going and getting your primary care checkup.
So it's like this idea of like care and human connection.
And yes, though the work needs to get done, but I've always
been a fan. And I see this especially with
this generation, the work will get done if they know the human
that it impacts. They need to know you before
they can buy into you. You can't expect to say, well,
I'm the the senior manager of HR and then be like, OK, your rules
junkie, like what do you want from me?
It's this matter of like, no, we Tracy's awesome.
Tracy helps us and she's a real person and a real human that I
have a connection to. So yeah, I do need to follow up
about like that policy stuff or whatever it might have been.
There's this idea that there's an opportunity.
I think regardless if you're in HR or you're just a manager,
Gen. Z wants human connection.
We all do. But we have to remember that
they went through a really weird period of time where they didn't
get to have that human connection at a pivotal time
when their their young adult brains are literally wired to
learn how to develop relationships.
Yeah, that's so important. I really love everything that
you said. And I was really giggling a lot
at some of the the ways that you said it and I I mean it.
It really makes so much sense to me.
I think actually I'll share an anecdote here too.
I was speaking recently with one of our employees who is a member
of Gen. Z and very successful recent
college grad who went to a top school and is in a very
important and critical job for us.
And she was talking to me about how, I don't want to say
desperately, but in a way like how eager she was to meet people
in person. We all work remotely and there
aren't many people in her city, let alone in her state.
And she was like, I really like, I wish that I had more of that
connection. I love what I do.
I love the work that I do. I love where I work.
But I just, you know, there's something missing for me.
Basically, that's the message that at least I received.
And without putting words in her mouth, you know, I think there
is. And I'm putting her experience
with other experiences of Gen. Z employees that I've either
worked with in the past or have worked with recently who have
spoken with who really do emphasize that need for in
person connection. And I remember one of the first
times that she and I had connected, she told me that part
of her college experience was at home and she had was taking
classes online. And I remember at least like
just for me, when I got my master's, I was doing it online
by choice. And I remember during COVID, I
was thinking about how sorry I felt for students in that
present moment who didn't get the opportunities that I had
being in person for college or for some high schoolers or
middle schoolers or elementary schoolers.
And I remember reflecting on how different I might have turned
out if I didn't have some of those critical years of
development. And to your point, those those
moments that were so crucial to our development within
interpersonal skills. And you know, I think I, I guess
I think as an HR professional that there are, there are
always, there's always going to be a reason not to meet in
person because it costs X amount or because it's a lot of work
and it, you know, requires all of these logistics and planning
and all that jazz. But when I think about the ROI
and the return on that investment, it's probably so
great, especially when we think about who is going to be in that
cohort of people meeting together.
So I mean it really it did. It reiterated for me that there
is so much that someone who is a member of Gen.
Z is yearning for, and that that personal connection is so, so
important. So that is my anecdote there.
Yeah. And if I can, if I can trim in
there for our friends that are working for predominantly remote
companies. And it is, it's hard to be like,
how do you simulate in person, right?
And I've worked for a fully remote company and I was like,
sort of, I was in HR, but I was like people culture, right?
And something we did was we instituted like everybody got X
amount of dollars per week to go work at a coffee shop because it
was just like getting out of your home and interacting with
humans, like the barista, the other people at the other table
or like to go to a Co working space.
Something like it was like I called it like the get out the
house money, like get out the house and like go be with the
humans. Our actual HR called it like I
forget like the coffee stipend, but it was like I called, I was
joking. Like if you didn't use your get
out the house money, that's on you.
Like you cannot complain. I like that one better.
But the but the other the other piece of it is managers out
there like you have so much control to like make this a good
experience for people and every young person, a young person,
but like Jones here that I've worked with say that I have a 30
minute weekly check in schedule for them.
I schedule it for 45. And I intentionally for lack of
arts mod to curse on this podcast.
Yeah. Yeah, why not?
I call it the shoot the shit 10 minutes.
Like we just, what are we talking about?
Silly nonsense like it doesn't like because those 10 minutes I
can sacrifice to know that for the next 30, I'm gonna have
those young people locked in because we've just spent 10
minutes building or building a relationship.
And that's an opportunity for that informal mentoring that so
many Gen. Z ers want.
That's an opportunity to buy into what's going on in their
life and realize that like, yes, the whole world isn't it feels
like it's on fire all the time, but at least we have a little
bit of a human connection. And so like, I find those two
men, those 10 minutes at the beginning of a meeting to just
honestly shoot the shit and do nothing.
And like honestly have friend time.
Not best friend time, but just like friend time.
Talk about anything. Yeah, yeah.
Talk about anything is so helpful because it also just
shows like I'm willing to give you some time and I never say
like, OK, 10 minutes is over. It's a natural progression
because young people and anybody really comes to a meeting with
their supervisor or someone and says, I moved to get this done
because we have an agenda. So that naturally does
transition at about the seven to 10 minute mark and to like,
let's accomplish the things we said we were going to talk about
on this call. But you have you, you're making
memories, you're spending time with people.
And I really do think that time is the most valuable asset of
any company. And yes, we we should be having
purposeful meetings, but people that are more connected to their
work. This is in like every study ever
done by like Mackenzie and PwC, people that are more connected
to the people they work with are more likely to stay.
And you don't find connection over spreadsheets.
I'm sorry, you just don't. No you don't.
I love that. I think everyone should add
shoot the shit time to their one on ones their touch bases.
I'm into that. I'm adding that to my
repertoire. Dude, what are you talking
about? Don't know yet, but it's gonna
be a nice time. Right, that's amazing.
Megan, I can't thank you enough for sharing all of your insights
and like the research that you've done, like extensive
research that you've done. And I'm super excited to
celebrate you when you have your new book come out.
And maybe it's out by the time this episode airs.
But either way, we'll make sure everyone knows where to connect
with you and learn more in the show notes.
But I just so appreciate you sharing more and I guess just so
those who want to hear it from you, where can they connect?
And of course the links as I mentioned, will be in the show
notes. Yeah, my website is kind of a
good hub. Megan M grace.com.
Megan is spelt Meghan. I've got that extra H in there
because I'm, I'm Irish. My parents needed to keep it
cultural but the the other places I'm pretty active on
LinkedIn and Instagram and Threads.
But I do give you the caveat if you follow me on threads, it's
mostly just me talking about the TV I'm watching.
So if you need to turn your brain off, that's also a good
place to hang out. But you can find me on social
media at at Megan M Grace everywhere.
And then we do have a website for our institute, Institute for
Generational Research and Education, and that is Institute
for like the number 4jens.com. And then we're also on LinkedIn.
So we share kind of across those more formally some of those
things, but I'm pretty easy to find if you know how to spell my
name. Love that.
We'll definitely make sure it's spelled correctly both in the
episode info, in the show notes, of course.
But thank you so much and I'm excited to be on your podcast as
well. So for the listeners who want to
catch me there and hear more of Megan's wise words of wisdom and
other guests that she's had on, make sure you check out the #Gen
Z podcast. Megan, thank you so much.
Thanks, Tracy. Hey, just before you go, don't
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So much for tuning. In and I'll.
See you next week.