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I'm Pete Warmsley and welcome 
back to the Foilers Podcast, a 

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show where we dive deep into the
world of foiling with the 

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legends, innovators and 
passionate individuals pushing 

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the boundaries of this 
incredible sport and driving it 

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forward. 
This podcast is an extension of 

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the Foilers website, so take 
some time to check it out when 

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you get a moment and join the 
Foilers community for 

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information on the latest 
falling gear locations and other

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things happening in our sport. 
When? 

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Don't forget to subscribe to 
this podcast so you get the 

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latest content when it goes 
live. 

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In this episode, I spoke to 
Marcus Tadrew from Code Foils. 

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Marcus has a 15 year background 
as a leading Sup and board 

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shaper across multiple 
disciplines, known particularly 

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for his work with Sonova. 
Marcus was also the first 

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Australian to compete in the 
Molokai to Uahu race on a foil 

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in 2019. 
I met Marcus a few years ago 

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when he worked at a foil shop. 
He's a fairly quiet and humble 

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guy, but in this episode I 
managed to get him talking. 

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We talk about the latest code 
foils and the background of 

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philosophy of code more 
generally. 

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We also talk about the team 
behind Code and their design and

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business philosophies and 
reflect on the drivers of their 

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success today. 
There are some great people in 

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this awesome sport and Marcus is
one of those very authentic and 

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passionate foilers that's always
great to catch up with. 

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Enjoy the episode. 
Welcome to the Foilers podcast. 

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Mark, It's great to have you 
join us today. 

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I see that you've launched a 
couple of new foils in the last 

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couple of weeks, so I figured we
should kick off talking about 

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those. 
The first one I want to talk 

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about is this new X series front
wing, the 810 front wing you've 

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launched. 
How long have you kind of been 

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working on that and how did you 
know it was the next sort of 

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logical step? 
And just sort of give us a bit 

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of an overview about it. 
No worries. 

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So pretty much all of us are 
heavily into surf foiling who 

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work for code. 
The S wing that we kind of 

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released code with is a great 
all round foil, but we were 

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looking for something that would
surf better and probably 

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sacrifice a bit of the pumping 
ability. 

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That's kind of what brought it 
brought it about. 

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And we started with a foil, you 
know, just went lower aspect 

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version of the S and then went 
from there. 

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It took us probably, it took us 
a lot of prototypes and 12 

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months. 
It was first leaked at Hood 

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River last year and we just had 
Hood River this year to give you

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an idea like that. 
That's how long it's taken. 

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And we actually drew up the 
first one three months before 

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Hood River last year. 
So that's actually a a fair bit 

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longer than than a year. 
Funnily enough with that with 

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this project, the first one was 
really good and it was was a 

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huge decision to not just 
release it kind of we kind of 

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were like we can't just release 
one. 

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We have to make more at least 
and make sure that it is great 

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and that we can't make it 
better. 

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And then about 8 or 9 versions 
later, we made it better. 

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I think still our second 
favorite one was the first one 

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so and the one we released might
have been 5% better. 

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So it's, it's, it's a funny 
thing to have such a good thing 

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so early and to not release it 
and go, I think we can make it 

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better. 
And then it takes you, you know,

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12 months just goes by like that
and then you're like, OK, now we

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can release it. 
It's a really good feeling when 

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it does come out though, because
you know that you've you've 

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ticked all the boxes, you've 
gone through a bunch of stuff. 

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I mean, you could keep 
prototyping forever and never 

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release anything. 
But, you know, we got to a point

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where like this is really good. 
We we all love it. 

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We all love using it and don't 
really, really want to use 

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anything else as far as like 
surfing a wave in any way, you 

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know, whether it not just 
meaning like prone, it could be 

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on a wing, yeah. 
Or you know, even downwind, sort

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of like free ride where you're 
not worried about speed or 

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pumping. 
And yeah, so that's where it 

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fits, I guess. 
We love the S because it, if 

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you're going to probably travel 
the world and do a whole bunch 

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of disciplines, the S is 
probably what I would take. 

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But we wanted something that 
would just surf better. 

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It doesn't pump as good, that's 
for sure. 

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But it just surfs so much 
better. 

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And a lot of people want to 
sacrifice a bit of pump to surf 

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better. 
And we, we were all in that 

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boat. 
We just wanted to surf better, 

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even if we'd linked up 1 less 
wave, You know, maybe instead of

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getting 4 waves each time you 
catch a wave, it's three or two.

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And yeah, I get a lot more tired
using it, but I, I still prefer 

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the feeling I get on the wave. 
So I'll sacrifice that. 

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And I'm actually really looking 
forward to using it on a foil 

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drive because then cancel the 
pump altogether. 

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All the foil drive guys are are 
blowing up about it because 

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they're like, they don't notice 
that it doesn't pump as good and

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they're just surfing better. 
So yeah, it's gonna be cool 

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when, yeah, when I can get on 
the foil drive with it, it's 

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gonna be good. 
I guess we'll get to that bit 

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while I'm not on the water at 
the. 

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Moment, Yeah, yeah. 
And so then, so why now is it 

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the kind of the maturity of 
these foil assists? 

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Is it? 
Is it just logical to have this 

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next foil type in the range? 
Or you know why not earlier? 

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I reckon that we would have had 
it out earlier if we could but 

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code I guess the weird thing 
about code is we actually 

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released with one foil, not even
1 range. 

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Yeah. 
We released with the 8:50, 

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which, yeah, it's still one of 
our most sold foils maybe three 

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years later. 
I think, well, it must be close 

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to that. 
So yeah, it's crazy how relevant

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that still is. 
But yeah, there was, there's 

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definitely a place for it. 
And the people that surf and 

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have got pumping, you know, 
fully unlocked, they can pretty 

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much make link up ways no matter
what they're riding, you know, 

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certain people. 
And like you said, with the foil

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drive, that doesn't matter. 
With the wing, it doesn't 

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matter. 
So there's a lot of a lot of 

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places, even though we probably 
do more prone than those other 

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two disciplines, it's really 
suited for just being on a wave 

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in in any way. 
It doesn't matter if you're on a

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prone, but it definitely, we 
just found that there's foils 

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that surf better than the S but 
don't pump is good. 

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And that's a good thing. 
Like people want that. 

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And so it has to be done. 
You're just kind of moving with 

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the evolution of foiling, I 
guess. 

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And a big part of it as well is 
that we wanted it. 

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It's a lot of the stuff we make 
is for us, like we're foilers 

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and we do pretty much every 
discipline of foiling. 

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So yeah, we wanted it. 
We made it, we released it when 

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we were happy with it. 
Yeah, I suppose that's pretty 

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much it. 
I mean, that's been the, the 

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kind of the philosophy from the 
start in many ways. 

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You guys made, started with a 
foil that you really, you really

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wanted and designed around what 
you would use it for and, and 

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they got it really right and, 
and launched it. 

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So I suppose it's been, you 
know, what, what do we want? 

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What do we need? 
And you've got a, you've got a, 

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a good group of people with, you
know, very experienced foilers 

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in the team itself. 
So you've got a pretty good 

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sense of of what people are 
using and what people need out 

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there. 
Yeah, yeah, I think so. 

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The tricky bit with I guess, you
know, our team has grown to 

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adding Josh. 
Like Josh was a huge inclusion 

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for us. 
And it's funny because Josh is, 

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I would say one of the one of 
the nicest prone foilers to 

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watch. 
And James is obviously, you 

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know, very good as well. 
If you watch that, I think it's 

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the first turn on our marketing 
for the X foil. 

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It's just ridiculous. 
It's the only other person I've 

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seen doing that in real life is 
Bennetts. 

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And it's mind blowing to watch 
someone sort of skid or air 

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slightly into a, a foam section.
But it's funny because we do 

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have these guys on the team, but
you've got to remember when 

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you're designing it and thinking
about releasing it, that there's

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a handful of these guys that are
that are going to buy it. 

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And then there's thousands of 
people that can't do any of that

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stuff. 
So that's probably where we 

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listen to their feedback. 
But then there's also like mine 

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and Ben's and Dan's feedback 
where we're much closer to that 

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normal foiler's ability. 
And then we also really try and 

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get lots of people on the foils,
like here locally, you know, we 

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got pure OS on it quite a lot on
the foil drive. 

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And all the more feedback, the 
better. 

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It's all relevant. 
It doesn't matter if you're good

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or not, you know, or you know, 
James Casey or Josh Kerr. 

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So it's, it's probably more 
relevant, to be honest. 

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So yeah, we wanted to be able to
unlock more performance for 

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those guys, but also it has to 
be good and usable for the 

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majority as well. 
Yeah, I suppose. 

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And that you know, that's one of
the challenges I suppose is 

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you're all really good foilers. 
So if you're not kind of 

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careful, you're you end up 
making quite high end high 

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performance foils. 
I see. 

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You didn't need that. 
You didn't need that balance 

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from other people kind of the 
average foiler speaking out and 

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and adding to that in the 
designs. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, that's something that 

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probably picked up early working
with James for so long with 

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boards, even before foiling. 
And because boards are quite 

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unique where like someone like 
James can stand and balance and 

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on anything, paddle up anything,
you know. 

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So I started almost listening to
a bit more of my own voice when 

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more prototyping designs and 
stuff than Jimmy's. 

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Jimmy's is still relevant, but 
like, he's a freak, especially 

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on a Sup. 
You know, he was a pro Sup racer

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before they had foils attached 
to him. 

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So yeah, it's totally right. 
It's just finding the balance of

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who you listen to and they're 
all relevant. 

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But it's, yeah, just getting as 
many people on the foils as 

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possible is super important. 
For us and you've launched a 17 

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five in the S series, which is 
your biggest foil that you've 

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done so far that's in your your 
all round front wing series. 

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Where did that come from and 
what what niche is that 

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fulfilling? 
Who's the kind of rider for that

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00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,600
foil? 
Yeah, we saw a lot of kind of 

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spots for this foil in the 
range. 

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It's a really good thing, like, 
tool for someone to learn to dox

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that or paddle up, you know, in 
the flat if you're trying to 

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unlock that skill, which is a 
really good one to have if 

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you're trying to learn to 
downwind. 

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00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,960
Like to our surprise, actually 
after we released it, a bunch of

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the team riders got on it and 
used it in super light winds, 

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you know, winging or power 
winging and loved it. 

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So yeah, I think it's kind of 
for everyone in a different way.

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And it just depends how keen you
are. 

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You know, some people, if it's 
10 knots, will go do something 

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else. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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I'm one of them. 
I like, unless it's 20 knots, 

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I'm not going to go winging. 
Yes, well, you know, for me, 

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it's probably something that I 
would use to dock start easy and

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try and get a bit of time, you 
know, pumping around or I really

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want to. 
I learnt to beach start years 

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ago and I haven't done it for 
maybe four years and I'd love to

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try it again with that because I
think that's the the foil. 

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00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,160
And I know Josh kind of just 
learnt to do it as well on the 

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on that he had the 1540 and he 
he got close and I think he even

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got successful and then he got 
this foil and he was just he was

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00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,520
off. 
Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of 

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a lot of places for it doesn't 
have to be for the learner or, 

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or anything, but yeah, it's cool
visiting Europe as well. 

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We've kind of been visiting 
different spots of the world 

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since we've started code and 
it's yeah, you kind of get your 

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eyes opened a little bit to how 
different the world is to the 

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little bubble that you foiling, 
you know, so and you realize you

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need this stuff and if you want 
to sell foils in Europe or, you 

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00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,080
know, places where it's just 
different, different conditions,

224
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,320
different levels. 
Foiling got picked up a lot 

225
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,840
later in a lot of spots as well.
So yeah. 

226
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,600
Yeah. 
It's been good. 

227
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,600
It's been interesting because it
got released at the time of the 

228
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,200
8:10 and I think there was a lot
of hype around it, but we've 

229
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:53,760
still, it's still done really 
well. 

230
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,760
So it definitely seemed like it 
was needed in the range. 

231
00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,400
Yeah, yeah. 
Now I, I mean, I see pump 

232
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,800
foilings getting pretty, it's 
getting pretty popular. 

233
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,040
And as you say, we live in our 
bubble. 

234
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,520
And my bubble is 1 you're 
familiar with, which is WA 

235
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,040
certainly during the winter 
months. 

236
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,760
So it's got crazy. 
We've got fairies traveling down

237
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,440
the Swan River now with up to 8 
people behind them, maybe more, 

238
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:19,600
you know, from, from 4 lives to 
people jumping off jetties and 

239
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,240
more and more people are more 
and more people are doing it. 

240
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,120
So yeah. 
And it's, it's kind of growing 

241
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,520
because it's, I don't know, 
it's, it's bloody difficult, but

242
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,240
it's crazy addictive because 
it's so satisfying. 

243
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,080
Yeah. 
Just just jumping off. 

244
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,360
Yeah. 
It's the challenges when you can

245
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,120
foil drive and that's great fun.
And that's got its place and all

246
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:38,560
the foil assists got their 
place. 

247
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,800
But there's nothing like just 
the, the silence and simplicity 

248
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,360
of jumping off a jetty and, and 
just going for a just with a, a 

249
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,320
small board and A and a nice big
foil. 

250
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,760
So yeah, it's it's it's really 
growing here in a big way. 

251
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,800
Yeah, Yeah. 
We got to Switzerland this year 

252
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:56,920
and we did. 
We're doing a little tour to 

253
00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,560
some of our dealers. 
And I was kind of think I was, I

254
00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:05,360
was nervous about going there 
because it wasn't our scene. 

255
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,320
It was dock starting. 
Yeah. 

256
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,680
And I'm definitely not a skilled
dock starter. 

257
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:12,240
And I was like, we might get, 
you know, a bit embarrassed. 

258
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,920
It was so fun. 
That was super accepting. 

259
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,480
Like, you know, we got, we got 
the dock starting pretty 

260
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,440
quickly, but it was so fun. 
They get this huge cruise down 

261
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,600
at the dock. 
People bring food down and 

262
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,000
they're all, they actually do 
all these weird freestyle things

263
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,560
and stuff. 
It's, it was crazy. 

264
00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:32,400
It was actually, it ended up 
being one of the most enjoyable 

265
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,520
stops on the on the whole trip. 
And we did a downwind race in 

266
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,840
Barcelona. 
We went to England and yeah, 

267
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,920
prone surf, beautiful 
conditions. 

268
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,920
It was, it blew me away. 
It was really cool. 

269
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,120
And those they've got well, 
growing petition area now for 

270
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,800
the racing for for doc starting.
And as I say, that's that's 

271
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,200
freestyle now, people doing full
backflips and all sorts of 

272
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:52,200
stuff. 
It's crazy. 

273
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,080
It's crazy. 
I. 

274
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:58,120
Just want to take a moment to 
let you know that this episode 

275
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,560
is brought to you by Air Pumps 
Australia. 

276
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,720
A couple of years ago I 
introduced the Air Bank Puffer 

277
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:08,040
Pro to Australia and it's been a
fantastic way to get my falling 

278
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,240
gear pumped up efficiently so I 
can get out in the water faster 

279
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,360
and I no longer have to carry 
around one of those annoyingly 

280
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,680
bulky hand pumps. 
The response to this pump has 

281
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:21,000
been fantastic and so I've 
recently expanded the pump range

282
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,320
and launched air pumps Australia
as a one stop shop for all of 

283
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,080
your rechargeable air pump 
needs. 

284
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,200
Check them out at air pumps 
Australia all proceeds to 

285
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:31,920
keeping the foilers podcast 
going. 

286
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:37,200
Now back to the episode. 
So for those that aren't As for 

287
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,880
me, you're on the rest of your 
range. 

288
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,680
Just really briefly, you've got 
the X, you've got the S, you've 

289
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,600
got the R and you've got your 
masks, etcetera. 

290
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:48,000
If you use largest, can you just
talk just briefly across the the

291
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,600
code range just to finish that 
kind of the what's what's 

292
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,280
available for people in code? 
Yep. 

293
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,160
So I wouldn't really classify 
anything as it's for a certain 

294
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,040
discipline, but I would just 
look at him like you've got the 

295
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:05,240
X at the lowest aspect and as a 
result the lowest glide and 

296
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:06,920
probably the lowest lift for the
area. 

297
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,720
And then you go to the S, which 
is a slightly higher aspect, but

298
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,880
not high aspect, just a bit more
glide, a bit more pump ability, 

299
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,600
a little bit more lift. 
So for example, with those two, 

300
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,200
your 810 X is probably the 
equivalent to your 720 or a bit 

301
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,440
a little bit more, but it's 
actually closer to the 7:20 than

302
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,440
it is the 8:50. 
And then you go to the R series,

303
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,080
which is high aspect, so more 
glide and more lift for the 

304
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,080
area. 
And the reason I don't really 

305
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,160
pigeonhole them anymore. 
I never really thought that the 

306
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,760
R series would be used for 
anything but maybe downwind. 

307
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,760
But we have so many people on 
out on the code team and just 

308
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,400
like punters who my emails, 
whatever. 

309
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,360
And people love using the small 
Rs in waves and stuff. 

310
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,880
I've kind of now just kind of 
put them in categories of almost

311
00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,560
like aspect ratio and lift and 
glide more than anything because

312
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,160
it just is yeah, there's 
definitely no rules to what you 

313
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,080
use. 
I've I've discovered even though

314
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,840
we kind of think these things, 
yeah. 

315
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,400
You soon realize that people 
love surfing a 13 aspect ratio 

316
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,840
foil, which it's not my cup of 
tea, but yeah, people love it 

317
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,560
and they, I guess it's kind of 
part of exploring what you like 

318
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,600
because it's your conditions 
will be different to mine. 

319
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,440
And yeah, it's super interesting
listening to what people use and

320
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,960
why they use it. 
So but yeah, that's it's pretty 

321
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,680
much you just work at work from 
the lowest aspect to the highest

322
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:35,240
aspect and the characteristics 
are all basically less glide to 

323
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,120
more glide. 
Yeah, yeah. 

324
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,800
And look, code falls have been 
going for only three years 

325
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,880
basically. 
You launched in 22, didn't you? 

326
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,640
And it's by all accounts, it's 
been incredibly successful. 

327
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,000
I would have thought you guys 
reflecting back, what do you 

328
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,680
attribute that success to? 
What do you think you've kind of

329
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,840
got right along the way that 
enabled you to get to where you 

330
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,160
are now? 
And it's a highly competitive 

331
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,480
market. 
There's some big brands out 

332
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,560
there that you sort of stepped 
into. 

333
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,200
What have you? 
What have you done right, do you

334
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,280
think over the last few? 
Years, I guess we really, I 

335
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,079
think timing was a big factor. 
I was, as you know, working in a

336
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:14,319
foil shop. 
So I was using so many different

337
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,839
brands and figuring out kind of 
what was working and what wasn't

338
00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:23,119
and as a natural sort of like 
tinkerer or you know, I'm just 

339
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,319
interested in how things work. 
So I would be taking notice of 

340
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:29,640
foil sections and how they feel 
and what bits were breaking, 

341
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,360
what bits weren't. 
And no brand can deny like bits 

342
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,720
break. 
We've as you're learning and 

343
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,160
everything's evolving into 
higher performance, things are 

344
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,640
going to break. 
It's just part of it. 

345
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,280
All the boards boxes used to 
cave in at the start, and I 

346
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,320
meant some of us were foiling 
before there was foil boards. 

347
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,960
It's just, it was just the 
evolution of it. 

348
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,800
And then when we decided to do 
code, I don't think we had any 

349
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,120
aspiration or maybe even maybe 
the better word was like a 

350
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,360
expectation to be anything. 
We just thought let's just try 

351
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:04,600
it. 
Me and Jimmy had been doing 

352
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,560
boards for some of us, still are
and for a long time and we just 

353
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,200
kind of were always interested 
in doing our own thing. 

354
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:14,400
My brother was working with a 
another company as well doing 

355
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,120
boards, and we all just kind of 
decided it was time to do our 

356
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:20,080
own thing. 
We'd kind of been involved in 

357
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,360
the industry in different ways 
and to sort why not. 

358
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,600
We the reason we started with 
one foil was it was literally 

359
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,960
all we could afford to make and 
we've just built on it from 

360
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,480
there. 
So it was like as genuinely as 

361
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,400
small as you could probably be. 
Looking back at it, it's kind of

362
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,720
ridiculous. 
Yeah, it's worked out well. 

363
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,400
It, it blows me away that I get 
to do this as a job now and that

364
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,680
we are where we are and just so 
that people like using the foils

365
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,640
that it's amazing. 
It's crazy. 

366
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,760
Well, I mean, I always say you 
should, you should find a, a job

367
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,600
that you you love and then it no
longer feels like a job. 

368
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,440
Imagine, imagine that's getting 
pretty close for you guys kind 

369
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,440
of living the dream. 
I'm sure it's it's not all not 

370
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:07,560
work. 
There's times you're going to 

371
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,600
make tough decisions and it is 
work, but it's as close as it 

372
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:11,480
gets. 
I would have thought. 

373
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,440
So that's pretty cool. 
Yeah, definitely. 

374
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,480
There's definitely times where 
you think this kind of sucks a 

375
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,520
bit, but I don't know. 
For me anyway, I look, I think 

376
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,920
about previous jobs I've had and
I'm like, it definitely doesn't 

377
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,440
suck as much as that. 
Yeah. 

378
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,240
And there's a lot more good than
bad. 

379
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,640
I can go foiling and say it's 
work, you know, so. 

380
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,560
Yeah, that's right. 
It's all research. 

381
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,520
Yeah. 
So who, who is the code team? 

382
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,200
I mean most people probably many
people probably know broadly who

383
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,880
they are, but who are kind of 
the key players and what do they

384
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,280
bring to to code obviously 
yourself and then then the 

385
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,040
others. 
Yeah, Ben, like I just mentioned

386
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,000
my brother and James. 
So that was yeah, it was 

387
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,520
probably come at some of the 
first conversations. 

388
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,640
Certainly me and Ben were all in
and Jimmy was working with 

389
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,640
another foil brand at the time. 
We quickly realized that me and 

390
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:07,360
Ben were OK at designing. 
Stuff on a certain program, but 

391
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:10,880
really not that good at CAD. 
And we had our like Dan, who's 

392
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:15,120
an architect and he, he started,
I was just starting spending 

393
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:18,760
nights with him and we drew it 
up like the first set and it's 

394
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,240
kind of like you just make that 
a bit more curved or round or 

395
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,720
whatever and he would do it. 
And yeah, we kind of realized 

396
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,840
how much work was going to be 
involved on that sort of thing. 

397
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:33,080
So then we offered Dan to come 
in and yeah, he was a, he was 

398
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:37,520
kind of in his early stages of 
just getting into 

399
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,080
downwindfoiling and he was super
excited about being part of it. 

400
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,640
And yeah, so it was us three. 
And then Jimmy came on after a 

401
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,200
certain amount of time when he 
was sort of wrapping things up 

402
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,120
with Axis. 
And then we've got, we've got 

403
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:52,400
Josh. 
Like we, I think we added Josh 

404
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,560
maybe a year ago, maybe long 
ago. 

405
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,520
I really don't. 
I'll lose track of time and he's

406
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,640
just been amazing that he's just
I remember when I met him and he

407
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,360
just used our foils and he loved
him and he was with uni at the 

408
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:07,760
time and and he was just the 
nicest guy. 

409
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,560
He's one of those guys you know 
that you may like discuss cool. 

410
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,560
And he then he expressed we got 
him on the team. 

411
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,200
He liked the foils and he was 
kind of expressing that he 

412
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:23,280
wanted to get off the tools as a
roofer and we kind of worked out

413
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,560
that he was working for foil 
drive as well. 

414
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:30,080
So he works full time, but half 
for us, half a foil drive and 

415
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,520
he's been amazing. 
And we've recently also put on 

416
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,080
Katie, who's a real actually a 
great foiler from Melbourne in 

417
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,760
marketing as well. 
So you got the four directors, 

418
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,640
Josh sort of in. 
He does a lot of marketing stuff

419
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,960
and he looks after the all the 
team writers, which we've just 

420
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,640
got such a massive bunch of 
ambassadors now. 

421
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,520
And it's just kind of up to him 
to kind of look after them, make

422
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,120
sure they're happy and 
everything's organized there. 

423
00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:56,480
And he does a lot of marketing 
stuff with Katie, who Katie is 

424
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,960
just purely marketing. 
And and with the other 4, you 

425
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:03,840
got Jimmy, who he does a lot of.
He still has Coach Casey, which 

426
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,960
is his main income. 
And he does a little bit of work

427
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,520
for us with certain things like 
just business improvement 

428
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,080
mainly. 
Me and Ben do the designs and 

429
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:19,320
Dan does the CAD stuff. 
So yeah, the designs come from 

430
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,920
us to Dan. 
Dan puts it all together, sends 

431
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,760
it off. 
Then when it comes to us, we 

432
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:29,040
all, we all start testing it. 
You're all test drivers, yeah. 

433
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,400
You're all knowledgeable and and
skillful and foiling. 

434
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,320
So how do you decide when? 
I mean it was circling back a 

435
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,120
little bit, but how do you 
design decide when a design's 

436
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:39,320
enough? 
I mean, there must be some, 

437
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,640
there must be some debate 
amongst the the team there 

438
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,480
about, you know, which is best 
and what we need to do and when 

439
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,560
are we ready. 
Yeah, I think surprisingly that 

440
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,400
once we all use, we're actually 
all really end up on the same 

441
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,320
page. 
Quite often. 

442
00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,440
It's we do sort of this thing 
where I guess we call it blind 

443
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,840
testing. 
Even if we have ideas of what we

444
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,920
like, we don't tell anyone until
we get to a point like, all 

445
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,800
right, everyone's used the four 
prototypes we've got in the 

446
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,440
system at the moment, let's have
a call and go over them. 

447
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,480
And it's actually crazy how 
often we're all feeling the same

448
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,240
thing. 
It's probably more so the bit 

449
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,280
before that where you're doing 
the design and you kind of got 

450
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,280
ideas and like we're, we're 
working on a race foil at the 

451
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,480
moment, for example. 
And I've really been had my head

452
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,440
in this zone where I'm working 
on something and then we test it

453
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,240
and then I change like one thing
and I and I've got and I've been

454
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,320
working in this sort of sort of 
systematic way. 

455
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,640
And then, but then Ben, it's so 
good because then Ben's like, I 

456
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,800
reckon we need to go down this 
path as well and just try it. 

457
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,680
We need to compare this because 
I need to know I've got this 

458
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,040
feeling that it should do this. 
And like I haven't even thought 

459
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,680
about that because I've got my 
head so far down this rabbit 

460
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,240
hole. 
So I think just the more sort of

461
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,920
input, the better. 
And the one thing that I think 

462
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,640
you learn pretty quickly is that
you kind of gotta just, I guess,

463
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,440
appreciate that you're trying to
make a good foil and your ego 

464
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,360
doesn't count. 
Like if you're I didn't, didn't,

465
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:11,920
didn't work out, it doesn't 
matter. 

466
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,880
You can't write a foil and go, 
this is my 1. 

467
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,360
So I want this to work better. 
It's you've just got to do it. 

468
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:22,480
And yeah, I don't think really 
there's been, yeah, it's been 

469
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,880
crazy how well everything goes 
as far as design and testing and

470
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,960
there's not many disagreements 
there. 

471
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,520
There might be different ideas 
or different feelings, but 

472
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,360
generally we all agree. 
And if it's three to four, then 

473
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:39,800
the three votes gets the vote 
anyway, so, and it's fine. 

474
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,200
Sometimes you might just be out 
voting like that's cool. 

475
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,440
I I'm not feeling that and 
that's fine. 

476
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,680
It doesn't matter. 
So yeah, yeah, we're just lucky.

477
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,920
I think we're we've got four 
guys who have a good feel. 

478
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,320
I think a lot of people can foil
something and not like it, but 

479
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:58,800
not tell you why they don't like
it. 

480
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,000
And I think a lot of the time 
that the guys on the team use 

481
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,120
something, they're kind of like 
this isn't working that well and

482
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:09,120
I've got a feeling it's because 
of this and that's very helpful.

483
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,000
That's not always right, but you
know, if you a lot of the time, 

484
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,320
yeah, the the guys that we use 
for testing a lot of the time 

485
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,840
are very good at feel, I guess 
is what he would call it. 

486
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,240
And just sort of expressing why 
they're getting those feelings. 

487
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,440
It makes the job a lot easier. 
It's I guess it's it is 

488
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,400
different. 
We're probably, well, I don't 

489
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,880
really know to be honest, but I 
do see a lot of companies where 

490
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,800
that's a designer and then that 
gets given to other people to 

491
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,640
test and he gets the feedback. 
But we're both of that. 

492
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,720
So it's it's good in a way, I 
think because we have a feel and

493
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,600
I think we have pretty good 
feel, but then we get all this 

494
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,560
feedback coming to us and we can
relate to it or not relate to 

495
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:53,760
it. 
And I think that's a good thing.

496
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,640
I could be rough. 
Yeah, I mean, there's no, 

497
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,120
there's no real disconnect. 
You're experiencing it. 

498
00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:00,960
So when they say something, 
you've when you've been out on 

499
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,240
the foils, you've been testing 
them. 

500
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,320
And, and you're right, I think 
there's, there's like my my 

501
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,960
background's marketing and, you 
know, you present designs to 

502
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,760
people and it's some people that
will just say they don't like 

503
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,240
something and then others, which
is really not useful. 

504
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,400
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's fine if
they like it, they can sign it 

505
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,720
off and goes ahead. 
But yeah, just to not like 

506
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,320
something, it's really not 
useful. 

507
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,440
It does take some skills to 
actually say, well, OK, well, 

508
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:26,560
why? 
What is it? 

509
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,920
So yeah, yeah, not everyone can 
do that at all. 

510
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,760
I think yeah, because you do it.
Or you can probably kind squeeze

511
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,600
it out of them because you do 
it. 

512
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,760
You know, if I foil someone 
goes, I don't like it. 

513
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,360
I'm like, what don't you like? 
What's it doing? 

514
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,080
And then, you know, you can kind
almost figure out what they're 

515
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,120
feeling and what's not working. 
But yeah, it's, it's a super 

516
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:49,480
interesting process. 
I love it, obviously. 

517
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,920
And yeah, the fact that we get 
to make stuff that we like is 

518
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,080
very selfish, but also very fun 
and usually works out alright. 

519
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,240
Yeah, yeah. 
It's, it's not a bad, it's a not

520
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,240
a bad philosophy. 
And there's obviously there's 

521
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,960
lots of brands, there's lots of 
foils out there. 

522
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,160
When you look at why people come
to the code foils and you know, 

523
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,760
changing foil brands is, is a 
reasonably big thing. 

524
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,560
It's quite an investment. 
People build up a, a range of 

525
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,320
foils and to swap over is, is 
quite a big thing. 

526
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,880
So in some ways it's a good 
thing and that there's a barrier

527
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,000
for people swapping over, but 
it's also a challenge when 

528
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,760
you're a, a newer brand trying 
to get people to move in. 

529
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,880
Why do you think people have 
moved across to, to code? 

530
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,760
What? 
What frustrations have they had,

531
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,480
or what do you think they find 
appealing about the range you've

532
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,400
delivered and the philosophies 
you've got there? 

533
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:39,320
I, I don't know if they would 
have came over before because 

534
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,160
they had frustrations because 
everything's quite good now. 

535
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:48,520
Maybe, maybe price, maybe a 
mixture of maybe it's more 

536
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,000
affordable. 
I don't, I don't even really 

537
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,520
know. 
It costs what it costs. 

538
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,640
And I think that people when 
they get to a level where 

539
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,720
they're buying carbon, a few 
dollars here and there doesn't 

540
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,640
matter. 
And we're kind of in that at the

541
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,640
lower end of that higher range 
price range, I think in most 

542
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,880
parts of the world. 
I don't know, I don't know why 

543
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,480
you would get it. 
I what we really do try and do 

544
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:17,160
is get around the place and get 
people on the foils, encourage 

545
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,760
dealers to, you know, offer them
some cheek geeties themselves or

546
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:27,880
have some demo gear in the shop 
because I do believe that it's 

547
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,000
good. 
Obviously, I'd have to believe 

548
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,160
that. 
Yeah, yeah. 

549
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,880
I hope that if someone uses it, 
that they will like it better 

550
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,680
than what they're using. 
That's I guess the where if 

551
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,120
there's any pressure in this 
job, that's that you need to 

552
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,480
make sure it's good because 
yeah, I think when you're 

553
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,840
probably spending as much money 
as you are on foils these days, 

554
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,320
you know, probably going to buy 
it blind. 

555
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,880
You really do want to try it. 
And that's probably one of the 

556
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,040
reasons that it can be slow to 
grow in certain spots because 

557
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,920
you got it. 
You need one dealer to commit to

558
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,480
code, have some demo gear, guys 
want to try it and then it grows

559
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,280
from there. 
And you, you kind of see it 

560
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,240
happen, but it's yeah, I don't, 
I don't know. 

561
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,040
I don't know what the answer is 
really. 

562
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,280
I guess I'm fumbling around the 
question. 

563
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,360
That's a bit. 
But I guess hopefully it's good.

564
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,560
Hopefully it stacks up and 
people have tried it and and 

565
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,880
want to buy it I guess but I 
really don't. 

566
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,640
Know and and in your sales 
model, I mean you, you come from

567
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,760
working in in shops. 
Has it always been the thoughts 

568
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,360
always been to, to work with 
dealers, to work with shops, 

569
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,040
because I suppose there is the 
option to go direct. 

570
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,720
Not many people do. 
I mean gone gone's one of the 

571
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,000
outliers in many ways. 
I mean they don't go through 

572
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,320
dealers, but as a new foil 
brand, you could have done that 

573
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,040
as well. 
But you obviously see value in 

574
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,480
in the dealer network. 
Yeah, I guess it's pretty. 

575
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,480
It's pretty attractive when you 
look at the money you could make

576
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,720
on direct. 
But then is it worth it? 

577
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,960
I guess you what what is your 
your dealers work for you and 

578
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,880
you work for them. 
It's like this relationship 

579
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,120
where if we went direct, I don't
think I'd ever get go foiling. 

580
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,960
Yeah, that was actually the real
discussion at the start. 

581
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,400
And, you know, a couple of the 
guys were pretty keen on going 

582
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,560
direct and I had worked in the 
shop in Perth and I was just 

583
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,280
kind of thinking, I really don't
want to go down that road. 

584
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,920
The amount of, you know, dealing
with everything ourselves, if 

585
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,880
there's warranties like we do 
with every single warranty issue

586
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,760
from around the world, we got to
post and pack everything and 

587
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,320
there's four of us. 
Well, you know, 3 1/2 because 

588
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,400
Jimmy's doing, you know, really 
good with his, with Coach Casey.

589
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:38,240
So, and now I guess three years 
or whatever it is in, I think it

590
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,800
was the right choice because 
we're still operating really, I 

591
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,640
think we're operating pretty 
efficiently with the small team 

592
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,200
that we've got. 
And air freighting foils is not 

593
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,840
a big deal because they're quite
small, but they're high value. 

594
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,480
So it's not unreasonable to do 
that. 

595
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,560
You almost have to to keep up. 
If everything was being sea 

596
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,840
freighted, it would take a long 
time. 

597
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:06,000
Yeah. 
So yeah, I think and all of our 

598
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,160
dealers are amazing. 
They just, you know, we go visit

599
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,640
them and we foil with them. 
They're all foilers. 

600
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,320
They all, they're just a really 
good team. 

601
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,320
If they have a warranty issue, 
we work ways around it to keep 

602
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,080
them. 
The bride are happy. 

603
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,320
Like our main goal is to always 
try and keep the foiler on the 

604
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,240
water, keep them happy. 
And if you've got a dealer, you 

605
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,040
know, somewhere in Europe that 
has that part that someone needs

606
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,600
in another part of Europe, they 
usually work with us to send it 

607
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:31,840
to them. 
So it's good. 

608
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,120
And I, and I actually love going
to visit them. 

609
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,200
And a lot of them are just 
really, they're like us. 

610
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,680
They're just spoilers and want 
to be on the water and you go 

611
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,880
visit them and hang out like 
they're your mates. 

612
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,800
So you kind of just create all 
these new mates that you, you 

613
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,400
travel around. 
We still because, yeah, we still

614
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,040
haven't even visited half of 
them. 

615
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,240
I'd say it's, it's impossible to
just be away from home that 

616
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,360
much. 
But yeah, we'll get there. 

617
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,720
And it's it's good. 
You know, when you have these 

618
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,720
things like AWSI where you get 
to meet a bunch of them that you

619
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,800
haven't even met in person yet, 
like come to that and you. 

620
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,160
So yeah, that's that's the 
answer. 

621
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,040
I just don't think it would have
worked out. 

622
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,480
We'd have to hire all these 
people and to pack and serve 

623
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,440
oils. 
But I just feel like it would be

624
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,920
a nightmare. 
The main priority for us was to 

625
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,720
never stopped foiling. 
They're like, as soon as that 

626
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,520
happens, then what's the point? 
But definitely always been 

627
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,560
important, especially now where 
we're at. 

628
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:32,400
It's yeah, we had a meeting the 
other day and I think someone 

629
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,160
was like, does anyone need, well
want more hours? 

630
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,000
And I was kind of like, Nah, 
should I get more hours? 

631
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,200
So, and you know, even though 
quite often a lot of it can be 

632
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,360
work, you know, the foiling, it 
can be testing. 

633
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:49,280
But yeah, I think the direct 
thing is it's it's crazy like 

634
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,840
the the people that do it hat 
softer than it must be a massive

635
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,680
operation. 
Yeah, and you're right, the cost

636
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,560
is time and and then you start 
losing what you started for. 

637
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,200
I mean, as I said, my 
background, marketing and design

638
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:03,840
and stuff. 
I remember working for doing 

639
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,680
some work for a Golf Club and 
the guy had been the CEO of the 

640
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,200
Golf Club for three years and he
hadn't played golf, played golf 

641
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,720
for three years. 
And he loved golf. 

642
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:11,960
Yeah. 
You know, and it just. 

643
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,280
Yeah. 
And that and that happens all 

644
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,440
the time. 
So it's, it's good to hear that,

645
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,040
you know, I mean, you've always 
been good at that. 

646
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,840
You've always, you know, 
prioritize that the falling 

647
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,840
time, I think in your life 
whenever we've spoken. 

648
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,560
So it's good to see you're still
doing that because that could be

649
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,760
a cost in this process, couldn't
it? 

650
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,080
Very easily. 
Definitely, yeah. 

651
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,680
We're fully aware of it getting 
out of out of hand. 

652
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,280
Yeah. 
It's kind of been just the way 

653
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,720
that I've lived my whole life, 
like I've worked for myself as a

654
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,320
tradesman so I didn't have to 
work, so I could not work and go

655
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,960
windsurping. 
Like no boss could tell me that 

656
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:48,160
I had to stay and might say 
something about my priorities in

657
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:49,720
life. 
But yeah, I don't care. 

658
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,120
It's that's my passion. 
I think that's a big part of why

659
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,360
we are where we are. 
I think if we stop, yeah, then 

660
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,040
we become the guy that makes the
foils and gets all the feedback 

661
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,640
from other people and we're 
disconnected. 

662
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:06,640
It's not, I think a kind also 
like a big part of what's cool 

663
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,440
about code is that that I almost
feel like one of the team 

664
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:10,760
writers. 
You know, we have a big team 

665
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,239
writer chat and I everyone team 
writer around the world's on it 

666
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,600
and we're part of that. 
Yeah. 

667
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,639
You don't feel like you're the 
the owner of this thing that and

668
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:25,120
they're your team or anything. 
You just feel like you're part 

669
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,760
of this team chat. 
Yeah, I think that's important. 

670
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:36,600
I don't think being a boss or 
being a an owner or ACEO or any 

671
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,239
of those labels is. 
And it just doesn't mean 

672
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,639
anything to me. 
I just want to make sure that 

673
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:47,679
we're all still having fun 
because yeah, I just think as 

674
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:50,440
soon as that goes away, then 
that's kind of pointless. 

675
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,360
My sense is one of, I mean, 
obviously you guys have got 

676
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,280
great product, but I think the 
other part is as a brand, you're

677
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,360
very authentic and I think it 
comes through in your marketing.

678
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:00,840
I think it comes through in your
videos. 

679
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,320
There's a certain casual nature 
about them. 

680
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,000
You know, there's, there's lots 
of corporate stuff done in the, 

681
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,120
in the falling world and it 
looks all very slick and 

682
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,440
professional. 
I'm not saying your stuff 

683
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,200
doesn't look great, but it looks
like it's, it's authentic. 

684
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,120
You know, it's someone standing 
there with enthusiasm by the 

685
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,360
water talking about this foil in
front of them and, and, and what

686
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,560
they absolutely love about it. 
And I think that's, that's 

687
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,280
coming through and I, I think 
many foilers are picking up on 

688
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,920
that because there are, there 
are a lot of corporate sort of 

689
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,040
organizations in this game. 
And I, you know, and we're all, 

690
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,400
we're all pretty as a community.
I think we're all pretty 

691
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:34,640
authentic. 
Pretty. 

692
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,960
It's a great community. 
And I think people pick up on 

693
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,320
the vibe of joining a brand 
that, you know, reflects who 

694
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:41,920
they are as much as anything 
else. 

695
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,520
So there's there's something. 
In that, yeah, I I hate 

696
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:46,840
marketing. 
I know I. 

697
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,480
Know, I know. 
It's just like, I guess I really

698
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,400
want it to be as honest as 
possible and marketing can 

699
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,240
sometimes you're trying to, 
you're obviously trying to sell 

700
00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:58,840
something, so you're trying to 
talk something up. 

701
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,440
But I always do. 
I personally struggle with a 

702
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,680
little bit because sometimes I 
hear that some there's this new 

703
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,880
foil out and it just does. 
It's just amazing. 

704
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,440
It's the best thing you're ever 
going to use and I just think 

705
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,080
that's impossible. 
It's it's might be great at 

706
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,040
this, but it has to be there has
to be a downside. 

707
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,720
You know, if you've made it 
great at surfing, it probably 

708
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:20,880
doesn't pump as good maybe. 
And obviously you can always 

709
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,480
make something better, but it 
can't do everything. 

710
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,160
Like you can't buy the X series 
and be the fastest guy in 

711
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,400
Hawaii. 
It's and yeah, that's the bit 

712
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,560
that I like. 
If it's me talking, I try and 

713
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,520
get across and I don't know, 
it's everyone has their own 

714
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,640
approach, but marketing to me is
super strange. 

715
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,280
And that's why Katie and Josh, 
like they know that I hate it. 

716
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,080
They know that I don't even 
really like, I'm just super 

717
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,320
awkward about it. 
I have to do these product 

718
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,560
things where I talk about the 
foils. 

719
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,400
Josh filmed one of me the other 
day, the X foil and he's like, 

720
00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:00,000
come on, more energy. 
But OK, you know, I just feel so

721
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,760
I feel like a car salesman or 
like it just feels cheesy, but 

722
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,240
it is what it is. 
I mean, this is, it's what 

723
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:10,840
marketing is that there's also 
the the reason for team riders 

724
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,360
is a lot of them are your 
marketing team. 

725
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,880
And yeah, hopefully they make up
for. 

726
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,160
Yeah, well, I mean in, in, you 
know, as a marketer, I like to 

727
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,120
think marketing is about is 
about communicating and sharing 

728
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,000
your passion for something. 
But there are there are the sort

729
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,480
of the the darker side of that 
where the passion isn't 

730
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,920
authentic and the market is not 
authentic and it crosses that 

731
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,480
line. 
I really, I'm a bit the same as 

732
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,800
you. 
I, I really dislike marketing in

733
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,960
a big way, even though I've, 
it's been my career, but where 

734
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,520
it's where it's genuine, you 
know, you know, you've, you've 

735
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,680
got someone who's absolutely 
passionate about something and 

736
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,800
they're just sharing that 
passion for others like minded 

737
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,200
to get on board with it. 
I think that's that's where it 

738
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,360
feels. 
It's a weird thing, for sure. 

739
00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:57,560
I shouldn't say I don't like it.
I don't like doing it. 

740
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,320
I don't like. 
Yeah, expressing what I think 

741
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:02,760
about a foil because I'm the 
owner. 

742
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,360
Like people are going to look at
that and go, that's stupid. 

743
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:06,840
This is guy's trying to sell me 
his foil. 

744
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,440
Yeah, but you know, it is. 
I find the whole thing super 

745
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,400
interesting. 
Like when you look at a brand 

746
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:18,320
like Red Bull who are almost 
known more for what they're not,

747
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,280
you know, like they're athletes 
and and events and stuff when 

748
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,240
they're actually just a fizzy 
drink brand. 

749
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:27,320
So yeah, it's a strange thing, 
marketing, and I'll never 

750
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,880
understand it or be good at it, 
but yeah, it's it's a weird 

751
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,240
thing, the darker. 
The darker and what about you 

752
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:37,200
with with foiling and what's 
your favorite discipline right 

753
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,640
now? 
And we were talking just before 

754
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,280
we kicked off. 
You haven't been able to be on 

755
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,640
the water for a little while, 
but when you do get on the 

756
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,560
water, what what's what do you 
enjoy doing most these days? 

757
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,280
Where I live lends itself to a 
lot of prone foiling. 

758
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,560
On the Gold Coast. 
It's it's this, the waves are 

759
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,320
perfect. 
We get when we get wind. 

760
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,120
The downwind can be really good 
as well. 

761
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,080
Certain times a year can be 
hairy with the whale traffic 

762
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,800
also brings in some more sharks.
We've had quite a few attacks 

763
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,600
close by recently, but I would 
say a majority of it is probably

764
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,080
surf like prone and you know, 
getting close to that with 

765
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:11,640
downwind. 
But the downwind, it's not like 

766
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,600
WA where we have a windy season 
just comes and goes. 

767
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,160
So he's got to go when it's good
and the pair winging things 

768
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,840
becoming a thing. 
You haven't been in the water 

769
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,160
since July because of a few 
surgeries. 

770
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,120
So we're coming up to to yeah, 
well, nearly three months. 

771
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,240
It's going to be 3 months by the
time I get in the water. 

772
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,400
So I haven't actually had a 
crack at that. 

773
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,080
And when I get back in the 
water, I'll be, I can't just get

774
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,800
back into it. 
So I'll be actually getting on a

775
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,960
foil drive in the ways which I 
haven't done before. 

776
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,120
I'm actually super excited about
it not having to pump because I 

777
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,800
might be able to for a while. 
But yeah, and there's, there's 

778
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,640
foils like prototypes, the whole
team's raving about that. 

779
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,000
I just can't use them. 
I'm just sitting here going, 

780
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,520
come on, let me add them. 
So yeah, when I get back in the 

781
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,920
water, I'll be doing a lot of 
foil driving and probably even 

782
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,240
if I do a downwinder, I'll 
probably be on the foil drive to

783
00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:03,920
avoid any sort of excess 
physical. 

784
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,680
And stuff. 
And then yeah, once I'm fit, I 

785
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,240
can't wait to do some para 
winging actually where, you 

786
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:13,120
know, probably just wing it, 
para wing out, stash it and surf

787
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:14,960
in. 
Not necessarily for downwinders 

788
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,160
but just for surfing windy 
conditions like free ride 

789
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:19,600
downwind I guess maybe you call 
it. 

790
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,480
Yeah, yeah, sure. 
Yeah. 

791
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:24,640
So did you say you've tried para
winging or that's something that

792
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,200
you're gonna try when you get 
chants? 

793
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,880
Yeah. 
We all got we got some hold of 

794
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,320
some para wings while I was off 
the water. 

795
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,240
Yeah. 
And the boys all just went to 

796
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:37,520
food, which I think would just 
be phenomenal on a power wing. 

797
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,120
I can't, I can't even imagine 
going to Hood now with my 

798
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,280
downwind board. 
I only ever went with a six foot

799
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,520
board anyway because I just it's
you're surfing at Hood. 

800
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,840
Yeah, you're surfing wind bumps.
So I think the power wing's 

801
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,720
really blowing up there from 
what I've heard from our dealer 

802
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:53,880
there. 
And yeah, I think there's a lot 

803
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,160
of places in the world that it 
will just be an amazing tool 

804
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:58,800
for. 
And there'll be some places 

805
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,240
where it could be pretty average
for sure. 

806
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:02,680
Like I would never commit to a 
down window here on the Goldie 

807
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,120
with it because the amount of 
times we go and the wind just 

808
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,240
stops on a with a paddle, if we 
come down, we'll get up. 

809
00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:10,720
It won't matter if there's no 
wind. 

810
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:13,240
Like we'll still paddle up and 
there'll still be bumps left. 

811
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:16,280
So it's not like Perth would be 
great for where the wind comes 

812
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,240
and you know, it's there, it's 
there till dark. 

813
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,040
So I'd love to come to Perth and
para wing hood rive to para 

814
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,000
wing. 
Oh, this is all I'm just 

815
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,120
guessing. 
I haven't even done yet. 

816
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,320
But yeah, the boys had been 
pumped on it a little bit. 

817
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,040
Yeah, I think it's going to be a
cool tool. 

818
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,680
I don't think it'll ever be as 
big as winging. 

819
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,960
But I also said that I kind of 
thought winging might have been 

820
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,680
a fad when I first saw that. 
And then I loved it. 

821
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,480
Like you saw how much I was 
winging when I lived in WA. 

822
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:42,680
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

823
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,880
So yeah, I'll happily admit that
I'm wrong when I'm wrong. 

824
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,000
And I think the power wing is 
going to be epic at some spots 

825
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,880
and maybe not so much at other 
spots, but. 

826
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:53,640
Yeah, we'll see. 
Yeah, I see. 

827
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,160
You make a good point about, you
know, choosing places where 

828
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,840
there's consistent wind and 
people that have got all sorts 

829
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,680
of setups with carrying spare 
paddles and things like that now

830
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,240
as a safety device as much as 
anything, in case they get stuck

831
00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:06,960
out there with this power wing 
and no wind. 

832
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,560
It is a risk in some places. 
Definitely, yeah. 

833
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,040
I think if I'm using a board 
that I can paddle up for me, I 

834
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:18,200
think I'm just gonna take a 
paddle because if I go down with

835
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,440
with the paddle in my hand, I 
don't notice that it's like 

836
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,280
what, a kilo? 
Not even. 

837
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:27,680
Yeah, yeah. 
So yeah, the the upside for me 

838
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,000
is if I've used it, I'll want to
be using it on a small board to,

839
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,360
yeah, open up a bit more surfing
and more manoeuvrability, I 

840
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,480
guess. 
But yeah, could be wrong. 

841
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,400
That's me in a year. 
Yeah, I know. 

842
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,280
Well, this sport is tracking 
along really nicely and it's 

843
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:46,280
continuing to evolve with new 
innovations and new foil assist 

844
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,120
products coming out as well and 
a whole range of stuff on the 

845
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,320
horizon. 
So it's getting pretty exciting.

846
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,720
I, I want to ask you a few quick
fire questions, but I've just 

847
00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:56,480
got one question. 
It's a little bit out of order 

848
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,640
in some respects, but you know 
it. 

849
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:02,720
I ask it because I think it's, 
you know, you've got for a 

850
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:05,480
number of you all friends 
working together in a business, 

851
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,840
you know, and they, they, the 
saying goes, you know, the best 

852
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,200
way to destroy a friendship is 
to go into business together. 

853
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,680
How? 
How have you kept your 

854
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,880
relationship strong while 
building a business with friends

855
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,560
in This is beyond just talking 
foiling, this is people working 

856
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:19,960
in business. 
I think there's something to be 

857
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:21,960
learnt here. 
What's the trick? 

858
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,960
Yeah, it's definitely something 
a lot of people have probably 

859
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,000
brought up and something we're 
definitely aware of. 

860
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,720
I think. 
I think maybe for me personally,

861
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:38,440
I would prefer to get out of the
business than not be mates with 

862
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:43,200
these guys. 
It's not really a big deal. 

863
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:48,040
You can have some pretty serious
conversations, but it never 

864
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,680
leads to anything. 
It's, you know, it leads to an 

865
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,520
outcome. 
And I think it goes back to 

866
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,600
before you, you do have to 
sometimes, you know, just check 

867
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,480
your ego. 
I mean, everyone's got one. 

868
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,920
I really try, you know, put it 
aside, but sometimes you can't 

869
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,240
help it and then you realise 
that you've been a bit of an 

870
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:07,680
idiot maybe down the track or, 
you know, I shouldn't have said 

871
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:12,160
that and that's fine if you just
apologise or, or whatever. 

872
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:18,680
But I think everyone's like we, 
I've been working with Jimmy now

873
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,680
for a long time with Sun over 
and now this obviously Sun over 

874
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:26,160
is someone else's business. 
So it's not as much commitment. 

875
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,880
Maybe, I don't know what the 
word is, but maybe commitment. 

876
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,320
But yeah, it's, I think we all 
have the same goal in mind. 

877
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,800
We're all always on the same 
page pretty much. 

878
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,760
There's not much that we've 
really been seriously divided on

879
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,160
in the three years and I'm sure 
stuff will come up. 

880
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,520
We do have that vote system, you
know, with the directors. 

881
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,720
If you 3, you know majority 
rules. 

882
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,880
Yeah, sure. 
So you've just got to suck it up

883
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,800
if you're the the minority in 
something. 

884
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,480
But if that that whole scenario 
literally never comes up, So, so

885
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,680
far, so good. 
But yeah, maybe like the same 

886
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:03,920
with the pairing asked me in a 
year. 

887
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,680
Yeah, that's right. 
But no, I think really our whole

888
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:14,720
goal is to have this business 
and foil like still be foilers. 

889
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:19,080
That's super important to us. 
And I think if things got out of

890
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,080
hand or too stressful or too 
many hours or too many butting 

891
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,960
of heads, we'd probably prefer 
just to hire someone and add 

892
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,120
someone to the team that helps 
fix that in some way. 

893
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,800
I don't know what the, I don't 
know what we would do because we

894
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,440
haven't got there. 
But I think we would all agree 

895
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,480
that the, our friendship is more
important than the business and 

896
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,640
to remain foilless. 
They're the two probably the our

897
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,800
priorities, which we kind of 
have said from the start and 

898
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,280
they actually affect a lot of 
decision decisions that we make.

899
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,120
Yeah, Yeah. 
It sounds like you're pretty 

900
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,920
good communicators amongst the 
group of you as well. 

901
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,760
I think that's pretty. 
That's pretty important. 

902
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,640
Yeah, I think you have to be. 
And if you're not, you kind of 

903
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,560
learn to be. 
Some are better than others, but

904
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,360
yeah, everyone's got their own 
personality and that's what 

905
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,160
makes it all happen, I think. 
Yeah. 

906
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:04,640
Keeps life interesting. 
Yeah. 

907
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,440
Yeah. 
No, I mean, it's, it's been a 

908
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,760
dream run so far, so let's let's
see. 

909
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:11,520
It's been fun. 
It's been fun to watch. 

910
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,440
You know, it's, it's gutsy of 
you guys to do it and sort of 

911
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,880
having known you from when 
before you did it, before you 

912
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:18,720
started. 
Yeah, it's, it's a real credit 

913
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:21,480
to you guys 'cause I don't know 
if, you know, I'm sure there's 

914
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,920
people listening to this that 
run their own businesses, but 

915
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,840
for anyone that, that hasn't or 
doesn't, it's a big step. 

916
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:28,880
It's a huge step. 
There's a lot on the line. 

917
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:33,240
Your, your own humility and ego 
for one finance for another. 

918
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,120
But you know, it's, it's a huge 
credit to you guys for, for the 

919
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,520
stepping off and, and, and 
giving it a good shot. 

920
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,640
And you've done incredibly well.
So I, I, I look forward to 

921
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,120
continuing to chat over the 
years as it continues to evolve.

922
00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:46,520
Yeah, it's gonna be a good 
story. 

923
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,280
I want to, I want to finish with
just a few quick fire questions,

924
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,320
Marcus, if I can. 
So that's far away. 

925
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,760
Describe foiling in one word for
you. 

926
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,480
Addictive. 
What's What's the most rewarding

927
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,280
thing about falling for you? 
Probably you can do foiling. 

928
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,360
This is have to be one word. 
No, it doesn't. 

929
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:04,040
No. 
Cool. 

930
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,280
It's it's a crazy sport because 
you can do it anywhere. 

931
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,240
You can do it in dead flat 
water. 

932
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,640
I think that is what I don't 
think I've ever done a sport 

933
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,120
like that. 
I do think it's crazy that you 

934
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,560
can go to Switzerland in a lake 
and there's a crew of people on 

935
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:24,680
foils doing foiling and then go 
to, you know, here where it's 

936
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:29,080
the polar opposite, it's waves 
and ocean and, and same thing. 

937
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,120
There will be a huge crew of 
foilers out there. 

938
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:35,400
Then you got the wind side of 
it, parowing, winging, I think, 

939
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,040
you know, and if you're into 
foiling and you've got the time 

940
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,480
and you can learn all those 
skills that keeps it interesting

941
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,000
and it keeps you healthy, but 
mentally and physically. 

942
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:49,320
So that's probably it. 
Like I don't have kids and find 

943
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,880
it really I want to do something
everyday. 

944
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,720
I want to do my work and then go
and go foiling. 

945
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,280
Or if it's impossible to go 
foiling, I'd go mountain biking 

946
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,240
or something. 
It's just that's what I think is

947
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:04,880
crazy about foiling. 
It's I don't think I've ever 

948
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,800
done a sport that's so 
versatile. 

949
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,400
Yeah, yeah. 
And where is your favorite place

950
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,520
to foil and why? 
Home. 

951
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:16,120
I'd say these places as good 
when you're on the water, like 

952
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,960
obviously Hawaii for downwinds, 
crazy. 

953
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:20,600
It's just like Perth without the
weed. 

954
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,800
And Hood River is just an 
amazing place to foil. 

955
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,000
And I love Hood River as a 
place. 

956
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,000
It's just got this amazing vibe,
beautiful place. 

957
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:34,480
And there's really good mountain
bike tracks there too. 

958
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,920
Sounds good. 
But home, you've got really good

959
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,640
foiling. 
And I guess I get one of the 

960
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:42,680
reasons I moved here was to be 
closer to family. 

961
00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:44,360
I foiled with Ben nearly every 
time. 

962
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,920
I foiled my brother. 
And we, Yeah, like, we're 

963
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,560
working and enjoying life 
together when we're foiling. 

964
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:53,400
And also, I guess you come home 
like you come home to your home.

965
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,560
Don't come home to my my partner
and my dog, Lisa. 

966
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,280
You've met Lisa. 
Yeah, I have, yeah. 

967
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:03,440
So yeah, I'm for sure. 
Just so it's a, it's a common 

968
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,800
thread, I think people say, you 
know, their home turf often is 

969
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,880
their favorite place, you know, 
because it carries, it carries 

970
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,120
more than just that foiling. 
It's the whole connection of 

971
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,040
everything and where they live 
and as you say, family and so 

972
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:16,040
forth. 
Yeah. 

973
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,480
I've always moved detect like 
depending on what I'm doing, 

974
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,680
like I was born in Melbourne and
grew up, you know, sailing and, 

975
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,280
and kind of sailing 
competitively and is a great 

976
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,160
place for that. 
Then when that ended, I like got

977
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,160
into windsurfing and wave 
sailing and that's why I moved 

978
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:34,800
to WA. 
I was like, it's better there. 

979
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,400
I moved there. 
Yeah. 

980
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,000
And, you know, foiling, I was 
kind of like Gold Coast looks 

981
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,720
pretty good. 
And my family's there, so 

982
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,240
Boone's there. 
Yeah. 

983
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,600
So yeah, it's pretty much my 
passion has always determined 

984
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,360
like what I do, where I live, 
the car I drive, everything. 

985
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,480
Yeah, and and last question, 
what's the next big falling 

986
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,120
adventure or challenge for you 
on the horizon? 

987
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,600
Probably the next challenge is 
getting back into foiling. 

988
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,360
Yeah, and back on the water for 
you. 

989
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,320
Yeah, which is I'm actually, as 
much as I'm hating being off the

990
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,440
water and just being off 
anything like not being able to 

991
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:14,880
do anything, I'm, I'm actually 
super excited just to kind of 

992
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,520
learn again or, you know, get 
the body back into it. 

993
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,000
Although we'll be learning 
something new. 

994
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,000
I've never foil drive before. 
I've got a mine and used it in 

995
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,680
the flat, but I haven't done it 
in the waves. 

996
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,240
So I'm, I'm, I'm actually really
excited to do that. 

997
00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:30,720
We've also got a new product 
coming out that is related to 

998
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:33,560
the foil drive, so I'll get to 
test that finally. 

999
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,360
So that's probably the first 
challenge. 

1000
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,680
And as far as adventures go, 
like we really don't know. 

1001
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,000
I don't, we don't plan that far 
ahead. 

1002
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,440
Comes up and we're like, oh, 
there's an event in Germany, 

1003
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,040
let's go there. 
And while we're there, we'll 

1004
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,400
visit some places. 
And so, yeah, we had some great 

1005
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,280
trips this year. 
And yeah, hopefully that'll 

1006
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,840
continue. 
But yeah, the near future's the 

1007
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,800
the only thing on my radar right
now is to get back into it. 

1008
00:50:57,840 --> 00:50:59,880
Correct. 
All right, Well, thank you. 

1009
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:01,480
Thank you so much for your time 
today. 

1010
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:02,920
Bring it to chat. 
Sure. 

1011
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,040
I'm sure people enjoy. 
It good to chat again. 

1012
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,000
Good to chat. 
Yeah, we'll, we'll catch up 

1013
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:08,920
again soon and and see what 
you're up to. 

1014
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:09,920
Yeah. 
Cheers.