1 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:10,520 I'm Pete Warmsley and welcome back to the Foilers Podcast, the 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,280 show where we dive deep into the world of foiling with the 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,520 innovators, designers and passionate individuals who are 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,840 pushing the boundaries of this incredible sport and driving it 5 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,960 forward. In today's episode, I'm joined 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,920 by Christopher, founder of the Hydrofoil Academy Australia, one 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,280 of Sydney's leading foiling schools. 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,080 Originally from Austria, Chris has spent more than 20 years in 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:38,120 ocean sports, from windsurfing and kiting through the foiling 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,480 and during COVID. He went all in on wing falling, 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,040 training relentlessly and eventually turning that passion 12 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,040 into a coaching program built around making foiling more 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,760 accessible, safer and a lot more enjoyable for beginners. 14 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,960 I chatted to Chris about how the falling scene has evolved since 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,960 he started foiling, why beginner gear looks so different now, the 16 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,240 biggest mistakes that he sees people making when learning, and 17 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,520 how choosing correctly between towing beginners behind boats or 18 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,440 using foil assist systems can dramatically change the learning 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,800 curve. Whether you're just getting into 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,120 foiling or you've been riding for years and want to understand 21 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,000 what actually helps people progress faster, there's a lot 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,800 of good practical insights in this one. 23 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,680 Enjoy. Now, Chris, just to kick off, 24 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,760 I'd like you to take us back. How did you first get into 25 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,480 foiling and then what called you into coaching? 26 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,800 Hi, Pete, thank you very much for the awesome intro. 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,240 I'm super excited to be on the show. 28 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,480 And yes, I'm super stoked to share the passion for foiling 29 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,400 today with you and your listeners. 30 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:48,240 What got me into foiling? Very simple or straightforward 31 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,080 in world. I've been in water sports since 32 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,680 I'm nine years old. I learned windsurfing when I was 33 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:58,760 nine years old. That basically led me to a life 34 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,320 in Cape Town, surfing the waves and the beautiful beaches in 35 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,800 Cape Town. That then further down the track 36 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:11,600 got me working for boards and more, and it got me into kite 37 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,080 surfing. COVID came and COVID got me into 38 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,680 foiling because I couldn't get to my favorite kite spots 39 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,840 anymore and I thought well let's start this weird sport with a 40 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:29,560 mast and a foil. Looks pretty interesting. 41 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,560 Never put time towards it. And I thought like COVID is 42 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,320 perfect. I have so much time on my hands 43 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,520 and I grabbed the board of a friend of mine. 44 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,240 I ordered the wind wing and I knocked myself out by running 45 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,880 off in three sessions a day and learning how to wing foiling. 46 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,400 So wing for wing foiling was the 1st. 47 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,280 Foiling love. Yeah. 48 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,240 You did that in Cape Town or did you come across to Australia or? 49 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,200 No. So as I learned that in 50 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,400 Australia, I've been living in Australia for now almost 18 51 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,880 years and I've got a family here. 52 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:12,760 And yeah, Cape's Cape, Cape Town was my training time and I got 53 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,520 really good in windsurfing and it got me into kite surfing. 54 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,800 But I learned foiling in Australia in Rose Bay in Sydney 55 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:25,400 next to the Volara Sailing Club our our location for the 56 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,320 Hydrofoil Academy. And obviously, as I said in the 57 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,800 intro, you started in Austria. That's where you're originally 58 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,680 from. How old were you when you left 59 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,440 Austria? Were you doing any water sports 60 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,000 in Austria or was it all? I imagine that's all kind of 61 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,200 skiing and things like that. Yeah, yeah, of course we are 62 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,960 pretty, pretty good in our skiing sports. 63 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,880 But I think lots of it they have really or there are a lot of 64 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:54,040 really highly competitive Austrians in water sports 65 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,280 because I think they have to prove to the world that they are 66 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,920 also good in something else than skiing. 67 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,640 I'm a vivid ski and snowboarder, but I I started windsurfing on 68 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,120 the lake and we've got many beautiful lakes. 69 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,120 We've, we've got a lake in Vienna, which is just, I grew up 70 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,320 in Vienna and that lake is, we share it with Hungaria and it's 71 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,160 a it's an amazing lake for wind sports. 72 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:21,959 Yeah. It's like it's almost all year 73 00:04:21,959 --> 00:04:25,320 round. It's windy, it's quite shallow 74 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:30,480 so you get wind, waves and often more reliable than Lake Ada. 75 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,480 And I and I moved to Cape Town and I ran a business over there 76 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,600 and adventure sports business with a very good friend of mine 77 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,120 over there. Well, after Cape Town went back 78 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:46,000 to Austria, but I really felt in with the lifestyle you've got in 79 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,720 Cape Town and that basically led me to Australia. 80 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:52,880 Yeah, right. And as you said. 81 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,600 You know, during COVID you picked up foiling. 82 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,560 Yeah, exactly. And then during COVID, I picked 83 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:06,880 up wing foiling and Intervolara Sailing Club basically witnessed 84 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:12,520 like we became this group of guys, yeah, who were training 85 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,400 every day on the wing foiling. And this group kept growing and 86 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,520 growing and growing. At the same time. 87 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,600 There were already two guys at the Woolara Sailing Club who 88 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,760 were already amazing wing foilers, and one of them is Gray 89 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,960 Morris. Gray, who won the silver medal 90 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:38,320 in the 24 Olympics in IQ foiling and and his friend Ryan, who is 91 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:42,640 a highly competitive and successful Moss sailor. 92 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:49,400 And these two, which is already extremely well windfoiling, we 93 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:55,480 were a group of guys like we came to the, to the location to 94 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,320 practice every day. And the members at the sailing 95 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:06,200 club watched that and they, they reached out to Grace, Dad, Brett 96 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:12,000 Morris and me and, and basically asked us if we if we'd be 97 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,280 interested in running a windfoiling school. 98 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:20,440 And I thought, wow, that throws me back to being a 16 year old 99 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,960 sailing slash windsurfing instructor. 100 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,080 But why not? The times are crazy. 101 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,520 Why not giving it a season? That was back in August, 102 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,240 September, so just the start of spring. 103 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:39,040 And I thought nothing to lose. Why don't we just give it a go 104 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:44,520 for a few months, see if it works, and we kicked off the 105 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,440 Hydrofoil Academy. Yeah, and what year did you kick 106 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,960 off? Inc Think that was four years 107 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,160 ago. 4 1/2 years ago. It's 4 1/2 years ago now. 108 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,000 And what did the foiling scene look like back then, four years 109 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,800 ago, in your in your air? So a lot of wing foiling, but 110 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,400 also already some prone foiling. The usual suspects, you know, 111 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:12,320 George Qi, Remember watching this guy in in, in Maroubra 112 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,560 landing on the beach. I was like, who is this guy? 113 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,840 Amazing foiling out there and like 10 minutes later he rocked 114 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,560 up on the beach, got in some trouble with the lifeguards and 115 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,800 took took his foil and walked back up the beach. 116 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:33,600 So Josh was a very was already well and surely into foiling and 117 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:40,400 there were a few others, but it was in, it's in it's very early 118 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,800 stage and the equipment was also in it's very early stage. 119 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:48,280 You had brands where equipment worked really well and then you 120 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:54,800 had brands where the where there seems to be a a big gap of what 121 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,240 the manufacturing is promising and what it was delivering. 122 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,920 Yeah. And I think it was a very 123 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,640 interesting time. It was also same as in kite 124 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,440 surfing because we'd said witnessed the start of kite 125 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:11,280 surfing and it was very, very much the same. 126 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,120 Everyone really helpful, everyone really supportive. 127 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:21,680 You spotted a beginner, you had eyes on the beginner and tried 128 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:26,000 to help this guy tried to help with equipment, landing gear to 129 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,600 others. Very nice. 130 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,560 And it's still the same here in Sydney. 131 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,440 It's still a small group of people who know each other and 132 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:38,000 every weekday new people coming into the sport. 133 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,720 But back then it was a very small group of the guys from 134 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,680 Cronulla knew the guys in in the eastern suburbs and the guys in 135 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:50,200 the eastern suburbs knew the guys from the northern beaches. 136 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,280 And yeah, it was really nice and it's still super nice. 137 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,520 It's still the same but there are now so much, so many more 138 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,160 people involved in the sport. So you know, it's been 4 years 139 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,400 of of coaching and during that time the gears change quite a 140 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,480 bit. What have been some of the 141 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,680 changes for you that have impacted your coaching from the 142 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,240 perspective of the gear as it as as it's evolved over the years? 143 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,080 So the gear. OK, let's start with the boards. 144 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:20,720 Yeah. And the interesting thing is 145 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,400 when clients come and they ask me what board size should I 146 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,840 choose? I've read an article about the 147 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:33,560 board should be 30 litres more than my body weight in 148 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:36,920 kilograms, Yeah, for example. Or some people come, it should 149 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,320 be 20 litre or. And I said, like, it really 150 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,760 depends when you read the article or when that article was 151 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:43,880 written. Yeah. 152 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,960 And it's. And then the guys look at me and 153 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:52,800 he's like, what does he mean? And then like, look, when I got 154 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,960 into the sport, yeah, mostly the people who got into the sport 155 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:02,200 where windsurfers and kite surface, people with some 156 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:07,000 substantial water sports background, Nowadays the 157 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:12,320 demographic is a much broader one and the industry adjusted to 158 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,480 that. What was back in the days I 159 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,480 learned on the 90 litre board, then what became a standard was 160 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:24,800 the 110 litre board. If you throw now I begin on 110 161 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,560 litre board, most people are lost. 162 00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:30,640 So now the industry increased the size. 163 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,040 It's it's just totally standard for wing foiling school to have. 164 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:39,560 We have 168 litre boards and the new push is even in the 180 165 00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:43,840 litre. Yeah, volume dimension. 166 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,400 And you see the same thing with foils, beginner foils, entry 167 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,080 level foils, let's call them entry level foils. 168 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,600 They they are now really nice foils to foil with. 169 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,160 And they are not just limited on beginners. 170 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:03,880 They take beginners to not only a beginner plus standard, they 171 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:08,440 have the potential to take them to early intermediate because 172 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:13,200 some sometimes we instructed we, we jump on one of those foils. 173 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,800 If someone wants to have an it's just like bikini plus wants to 174 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:22,240 have a a chive lesson gets introduction into chiving. 175 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:27,400 We jump on the big board, we jump on the big foil and it's 176 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,960 still fun. I still have fun in that lesson 177 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,920 using that equipment. Back in the days when I learned 178 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,200 and I jumped onto the bikini equipment, it was really not 179 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,800 exciting. You felt the drag and you felt 180 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,160 like wow, this foil has really its limitations now. 181 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:50,520 The equipment got so much better and it's so well tuned in what 182 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,000 the beginner requires. The sails are heaps like the 183 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:59,600 wind wings, always called wind wings sails, but the wind wings 184 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,640 are heaps more robust. They fly much better, they are 185 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,640 more stable, they are much lighter and since the durability 186 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:07,880 is also there. Yeah. 187 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,920 OK. So as you say that the markets 188 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,840 changed as well. So when you started, people had 189 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,720 water sports experience of some kind. 190 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,760 So they could probably do it with a smaller board, OK, 191 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,280 because they've got some experience. 192 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,360 But now people are coming from very little water sports 193 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,400 experience probably seen and it looks awesome when people watch. 194 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,200 People always stop from down at the river in our local place, 195 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,680 You know, they're walking the dog and you're setting up, and 196 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:34,640 they're always like, what is this? 197 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,680 Tell me all about it. So lots of people are really 198 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:39,320 interested in getting into it. And probably, yeah, as you say, 199 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,400 more and more don't have that background. 200 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,320 So the gear's gotta evolve to allow for that. 201 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,160 So it sounds that like that's happening quite well in the 202 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,320 industry and you're able to take advantage of it. 203 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,920 And it it makes it because I don't know what your background 204 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,200 is, but but I think you've been a windsurfer as well. 205 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,200 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, when I, when I explain 206 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,640 clients like because I we, we get a group, let's get say, 207 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,200 let's say a group of four people signing up for a full day, a 208 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,080 full day wind foiling course. And you get people with 209 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:11,920 different water sports backgrounds. 210 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,760 And the guy who has done windsurfing will most likely do 211 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:22,440 better than the guy who has just done surfing or even no water 212 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,280 sports. And I explained the guys that 213 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:32,240 that the progression curve might look steeper, but this guy has 214 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,480 put all the hard work in when he learned windsurfing the 100 215 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,720 times, you know, lifted that sail out of the water and you 216 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,800 felt off the board. And you nowadays only need for 217 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,760 wind foiling, to be honest, 10 to 20 hours depending on your 218 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,760 background. So that you can do. 219 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,680 We almost give people a guarantee, but if they put 20 220 00:13:55,680 --> 00:14:00,360 hours of training in and that doesn't mean lessons with us, 221 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,640 that means we show them the ropes, how it works, we cover 222 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,000 all the basics. And then if they would lock 223 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:14,040 every training session, probably after 20 hours they are on foil 224 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,560 on their preferential side. Yeah. 225 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,040 When you're dating someone, what's the first big challenge 226 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:22,800 for them? What do they tend to struggle 227 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,960 with initially and and how do you kind of help them deal with 228 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,560 that? So we introduced for this season 229 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,120 a new system which seems to work really well. 230 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,800 We have two ways in entering it. One is you get towed behind the 231 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:44,960 boat and the other option is you learn with the foil drive. 232 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,400 Those two things are different and why are they different? 233 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,800 A client has wakeboarding background, water ski background 234 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:59,160 has been kite surfing. Then I tend to recommend that 235 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,360 you should get started behind the boat if the goal is to learn 236 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:08,000 wing foiling. If the student has little water 237 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,800 sports background or predominantly surf background, 238 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:16,440 wants to get into prone foiling or even wing foiling, we get 239 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:21,720 them started on the foil assist. Yeah, on the foil drive assist. 240 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:27,880 Because this person, the student doesn't need to deal with the 241 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,160 lateral pool. Because if I tow someone behind 242 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:36,000 the boat, they don't struggle in reality the most with the foil, 243 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:41,080 they struggle the most that a rope wants to pull them off the 244 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,160 boat. Unfortunately in New South 245 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,520 Wales, I don't know what the situation in WA is, but in New 246 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:53,240 South Wales we are not allowed to teach with a bar across the 247 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,640 boat where you have a bar mounted across the boat and 248 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,000 people can hold on to the bar. That would be the other thing 249 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,160 which would really help people. And this is the most important 250 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,440 thing in their first lesson. Give them a huge smile. 251 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,320 It's the most important thing when you wanna see a sport 252 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,040 growing that you make the entry super easy. 253 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,840 Windsurfing unfortunately realized that way too late and 254 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:25,000 they came out with those high volume, very wide boards at the 255 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,320 end of the life cycle of windsurfing in in foiling. 256 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,240 We've got it all now. The boards are nice and wide and 257 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:36,200 stable and we as a school, we give our clients two options. 258 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:40,880 And I just got off before I got on the on the call with you, I 259 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,280 got off with a client and he explained me what he wants to do 260 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,240 and he wants to learn surf foiling, prone foiling, has a 261 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,920 little bit of water sports background, but not really 262 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,600 wakeboarding. And I put him straight onto the 263 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,240 foil drive and he'll be having a lesson with one of our guys in 264 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,000 Nerupine with a foil drive. And I can guarantee you he will 265 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,560 have an amazing time tomorrow. Yeah, and he will come back to 266 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,760 his to his family with a huge smile and, and we're going to 267 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,119 welcome a new member in our FOIL community very soon. 268 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,599 Yeah, if I would have put him behind the boat, it would be 269 00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,960 like, that was great. It was a great challenge. 270 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,040 I'm going to come back because I want to learn it. 271 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,600 But it didn't give him a huge smile. 272 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,600 If if you are used to wakeboarding, surfing this 273 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:40,720 lateral pool, you'll be totally fine behind the boat and you 274 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,800 learn a lot behind the boat. And the reason why we teach 275 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,560 behind the boat is because it teaches you a lot for wing 276 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,800 foiling as well, further down the track, not in your first 277 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:59,640 lesson, but in your next lesson. That lift on the foil just 278 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,240 doesn't come from the foil. It also comes from the mast 279 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:08,280 because when you lean over, the mast becomes a wing as well and 280 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,280 develops lift. And that's what gets us as wing 281 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:16,720 foilers super early on, the foil, the combination, having a 282 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:22,200 foil and the mast and you can work on the take offs. 283 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,440 We work like when people come and they tell us how we struggle 284 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,640 with our take offs. I put them behind the boat and 285 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,440 we can work on take offs. We can fine tune everything in 286 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,480 behind the boat. And do people come along with 287 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,000 their own gear or do they do they use your gear and then go 288 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,280 out and get their own gear once they've worked out kind of what 289 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,800 they what they want, what they're looking for, what's the 290 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,440 process? If they have their own gear, we 291 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,280 tell them please bring your bring your own gear because we'd 292 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,840 like to check out your gear. If we find it suitable for the 293 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,080 purpose of the lesson, we run the lesson with your gear. 294 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:05,400 If we find we have more suitable gear for that lesson, then the 295 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,040 client can use. Then the client gets the choice 296 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,760 of using his gear or our gear. Yeah, yeah. 297 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,000 And what are the, what are the stages of learning? 298 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,160 Obviously, first of all, you just got to get used to, I 299 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,600 suppose, riding up on the foil. I mean, one of the things for 300 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,440 me, I came from windsurfing. We didn't have foils in the 80s. 301 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,160 And the weird sensation for me was I was fine with the wind. 302 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,040 That's fine. I'm used to holding a, you know, 303 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,520 like a windsurfing sail. But soon as that foil rose up, 304 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,440 something in my head said jump off, just jump off. 305 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,040 And I kind of had to fight this temptation when I was learning 306 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,280 just to try and control it. And as you said, I ended up 307 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,800 learning on an AE foil. I just rented it for a little 308 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,800 bit. And really, you know, probably 309 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,840 would have been a lot faster than lessons, admittedly, 310 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,520 because there was some frustration with that. 311 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,280 So what are the, what are the various stages that people go 312 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,960 through the, you know, what's the initial challenge and then 313 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,480 what's the next, you know, what are you working through with the 314 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,080 beginner? Yeah. 315 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,800 Yeah, I, I agree, Pete. It's a pretty weird feeling. 316 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:11,040 I I, I remember there's a video on my Instagram where basically 317 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:17,640 had my first amazing foil session from Milk Beach to the 318 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,760 Opera House and it was like, I was buzzing. 319 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,680 It was like, wow. Like it was amazing. 320 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:29,160 Yeah, but but it also took me a little bit, you know, to to get 321 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:35,040 used to fly on the foil. Hey foilers, I just want to take 322 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,360 a moment to let you know about lip sunglasses. 323 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,760 They're made for water sports and they're absolutely game 324 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,120 changing. I first bought a pair of lips 325 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:46,600 and glasses because I had UV damage in one of my eyes from 326 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,680 long term exposure through many years of water sports. 327 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,520 I was also getting very tired of squinting through glare every 328 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,720 time I went falling and honestly, they blew me away. 329 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,480 They're made for water sports. They've got lightweight and 330 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,880 flexible frames for comfort and durability. 331 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,280 They've got injected polarization in the lenses for 332 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,560 glare free vision and a double stage retention system that 333 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,240 means they can't come off even in the biggest wipeout. 334 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,760 They also have a watershedding lens coating that keeps your 335 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,920 view crystal clear. I love them so much that I 336 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,360 actually became the Australian distributor. 337 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,640 If you want the best on water eyewear, check out Lip 338 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,200 sunglasses. And as Foilers listeners, you 339 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,720 get 15% off their premium Typhoon model with Zeiss lenses 340 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,880 using the code Foilers 15. Give them a try and do your eyes 341 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,520 a favour. What are the stages? 342 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:44,680 So where where we start is we first of all explain people how 343 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,960 foiling works, because it's basically nothing else than 344 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,080 flying an aeroplane. But you're not flying the 345 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,880 aeroplane with a stick. You're standing on top of the 346 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,320 aeroplane and you're flying the aeroplane with way. 347 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:00,240 Chief. Then, because I have a mobility 348 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:06,680 coach background, Yeah, I realized pretty soon into the 349 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:11,520 whole foiling game that good foiling and progressing in 350 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:17,360 foiling is doing less, but it's doing less with the right muscle 351 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:22,000 groups and tendons. And what really helps if you 352 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,960 develop this awareness, what am I doing with my body? 353 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,440 Yeah. What am I doing? 354 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:34,640 How do I engage my clute? How is my ankle mobility? 355 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:41,320 Do I believe, do I have to belief that I'm not flexible? 356 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,120 Can I do a squat? This is like the first 357 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:47,040 checklist. Yeah. 358 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,960 And the first thing what I tell people because most people in 359 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,320 our age would say I'm not flexible. 360 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:56,920 This is the biggest bullshit because everyone is flexible. 361 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,240 You just need to get your flexibility back. 362 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,680 And that's not through stretching, that's through 363 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,400 developing the awareness of using the right muscle group. 364 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,240 And I could go on and on with that, Peter. 365 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,840 Yeah, like, yeah, because like that would. 366 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,960 Yeah. But it's, it's basically the 367 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:24,120 first thing is allowing them to feel how they need to shift 368 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:28,320 their body and what they need to do to fly a foil. 369 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,640 Then the second thing is, and, and this is in lesson #1 the, 370 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:37,320 the, the, the towing lesson where they basically simply 371 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,600 learn how to stand up on the board, how to engage their core, 372 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,240 how to engage their glute. And the next thing is we put 373 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,200 them either behind the boat or we put them on the E foil, 374 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,480 sorry, on the foil foil drive, which is not an E foil. 375 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,520 There is also a huge difference of learning with an E foil and 376 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,920 with a foil drive, and I really want to explain that briefly 377 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,880 here. What the difference is, the 378 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:08,560 difference is the power output. You get less power in the foil 379 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,400 drive. And this is a really good thing 380 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:18,120 because the less power means you need to make the foil more work. 381 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,360 You need to learn what you need to do to engage the foil, which 382 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:25,200 will then help you further down the track to become a better 383 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,080 foiler. With the E foil, you get away 384 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,760 with with almost every mistake for a long, long time. 385 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,960 So we either put them behind a boat or with a foil drive and 386 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,160 they learn how to engage the foil. 387 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,080 They learn how to fly the foil, they learn where they need to 388 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,440 look at, then they learn how to turn it. 389 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,120 But most important, how to suppress the foil, not how to 390 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:53,280 foil, how to suppress the foil. Because if you can suppress the 391 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:59,440 foil, then you can manage to engage the foil in this way and 392 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:05,760 not in that way. And after the you've, you've 393 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:10,200 learnt to foil or you've learnt how to engage the foil, we teach 394 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,720 you how to fly a wind wing. And we explain you that a wind 395 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,320 wing is basically nothing else than a foil, but you're holding 396 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,480 it in your hand. And in the beginning, flying a 397 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,640 wind wing is a workout. It will feel like a workout over 398 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,680 time. The better and better you get in 399 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,840 winging, you realise, wow, I can be out with my wind wing without 400 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,240 any harness lines for four hours and I'm not getting tired 401 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,560 because I got so efficient in flying that wind wing. 402 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,600 It's nothing else than a foil, but it instead of cutting 403 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,440 through the water, it cuts through the air. 404 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:54,320 And then we bring both things together, flying a foil, flying 405 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,480 a wind wing and people learn how to foil. 406 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,080 And as we both know, there's a preferential and the less 407 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:05,080 preferential side. And we teach students to keep 408 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,840 both sides 5050 because as we know, it is very tempting to go 409 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,120 on your less on your more preferential side for a long, 410 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:14,520 long hit. Yeah. 411 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,760 And then you are like, Oh my God, now I'm here. 412 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,840 How do I get back? Yeah, but the sooner you unlock 413 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:26,880 it and the side, the more you also learn about foiling. 414 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,360 We we look, look, we teach them a lot. 415 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:34,240 We, we pass a lot on what we learned ourselves when we 416 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,080 learned foiling. But I, I tell you what, Pete, I 417 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,920 learned a lot of foiling and I improved a lot in my foiling by 418 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,640 teaching my clients. Because in every client you see 419 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,280 a little bit of yourself. Yeah, Yeah. 420 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:53,880 What's that? You know, you obviously, you 421 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,880 know, been coaching and watching all these people, but you're 422 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,880 also watching not just beginners, I'm sure you're 423 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,560 saying intermediate, fairly advanced. 424 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,080 What's the most common mistake do you think that people make 425 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,920 with wing foiling and and other falling disciplines that you're 426 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,600 seeing often out there? Yeah, OK. 427 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,520 So diskette spiritual or a disket becomes a tick spiritual. 428 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,240 Now they try to control the situation. 429 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,680 That's the biggest mistake. So what do I mean by that? 430 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,320 Controlling the situation. If something wants to push up, 431 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,280 they push it heavily down. Yeah. 432 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,040 If something pushes them to the right, they push it back. 433 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:41,480 In foiling, the more you let go, the better passenger you become 434 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,080 on the foil. In the beginning, the steeper 435 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,960 you learning curve further down the track, you really become one 436 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,840 with the foil. You understand? 437 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,520 OK, the foil wants to come up. Let's release a little bit of 438 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,480 pressure with my back foot to match what's happening with my 439 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,960 front foot. And yes, of course, I get a 440 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,480 little bit of, I need to push down my front foot, which 441 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,440 probably 90% of all foiling schools would tell you, put more 442 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,440 front foot down. We tell them try to shift your 443 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,880 body weight forward. And there are various ways in 444 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:19,760 shifting your body weight forward. 445 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,480 But the biggest mistake is trying to control the situation. 446 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,840 And that's in terms of my expectation in the following 447 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:35,440 lesson because most of our clients are age group, late 60s. 448 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,040 What do all these people have in common? 449 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,520 We all don't have time, so we want to make things happening 450 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,240 very fast. Yeah. 451 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,920 We also already learned a lot in our lives. 452 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,000 So do we have the patience to learn something brand new from 453 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,400 scratch? Yeah. 454 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,920 If it's good enough. If as it has a promising 455 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,120 outlook, yes. But in general, they've, they've 456 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,960 seen a video about foiling and they envisage themselves, OK, 457 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,720 I'm going to do a lesson and I want to be there in a few 458 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,200 lessons. I want to do this in foiling. 459 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:15,120 If you come with an empty mind and you are like, OK, I'm on 460 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,560 this new journey, Let's see what's going to happen. 461 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,040 You progress the quickest. Yeah. 462 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:28,040 And I think this is the this is the most common mistake I could 463 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,360 tell you. Of course. 464 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,760 Yeah. People don't engage their glute 465 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:38,800 enough, you know, they they are not 100% aware of, of what they 466 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,000 can do with their body. Yeah. 467 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,640 But that's, it's just come with an open mind. 468 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,520 Let's go and, and enjoy the journey. 469 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,520 And and I always tell them you look at really, really good 470 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,200 foilers. You look at Josh Q, you look at 471 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,000 Adam Bennett's. Yeah. 472 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,640 Adam Bennett's has been foiling for 12 years, I think. 473 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:04,320 Watch a video a year ago and compare it to a video now. 474 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,640 You can see how this guy has progressed. 475 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,680 Would you believe it? A guy who is already. 476 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,720 We watched him eight years ago, totally killing it. 477 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,920 Yeah. Now there's a huge gap between 478 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:26,320 four years ago and now because I still feel that in every second 479 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,080 session, I think, or maybe even every session, I learn something 480 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,760 new. Yeah, yeah, in in my best 481 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,400 discipline, you know, in my most, I wouldn't say favorite, 482 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,360 but in the in the foiling discipline, I'm, I'm, I'm the 483 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,240 most complete. No, I wouldn't say most 484 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,160 complete. Which works the best for me. 485 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:47,280 Yeah. And even then. 486 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,640 And when people are coming for lessons, you said, you know, 487 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,680 some are wind foiling, some are are looking to pray and foil. 488 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,240 What's what is the trend? Was it always kind of when you 489 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:57,720 first started? Was it all wing foiling? 490 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,080 How is it evolving over time? What's what's the that's the 491 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,680 most popular now compared to before? 492 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:07,200 The beginning it was, it was purely wind foiling and then 493 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,320 further down the track, look, Australia is a surfing country, 494 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,800 it's one of the surfing hubs worldwide. 495 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,080 So lots of people have surfing background. 496 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,600 A bit thrown off by the price of getting into foiling. 497 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:25,400 We see a lot of surfers coming and they want to learn prone 498 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,960 foiling or downwinding and the way to into downwinding is prone 499 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:34,480 foiling. And I would say last year it was 500 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:39,320 maybe 25% who of oil, all students who wanted to pro and 501 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,200 foil and the rest was wing foilers. 502 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:48,080 And this year it's at least and and I think this is purely 503 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,720 because we live in a country with waves. 504 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,840 Why is wing foiling so popular in Europe? 505 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,720 Because they have lots of lakes and they have the met, you know 506 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,160 where there are. Well, there are spots in the met 507 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,960 with waves, but predominantly it's flat water spots. 508 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,600 And and that's why wing foiling is more important. 509 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,520 Not saying that wing foiling is huge fan in waves. 510 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,240 I love it. Yeah, I predominantly, you know, 511 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,360 wing foil for fun in waves. But if you don't have waves, you 512 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,200 won't start prone foiling. Yeah, you might start pumping, 513 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,560 like in Switzerland. And in Germany, it's super 514 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,480 popular to learn pumping. But here, why? 515 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,800 Why would you? And we get a few guys, you know, 516 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,120 to walk through the door, and they ask us, I'd love to learn 517 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:44,440 pumping, and we teach that too. But because of the waves, it's 518 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,600 prone foiling and wing foiling. Yeah, right. 519 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,480 Yeah. And we talked about this year 520 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,240 evolving what what do you think, you know, some of the most 521 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,880 impacting changes to the equipment in in the falling 522 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,080 sports and what do you think has changed? 523 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,440 But it's a, you know, it's a bit overrated and probably hasn't 524 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,280 made much of a difference, but people seem to think it has. 525 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,720 So when I got into the sport, everything was about high aspect 526 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,800 wings. Everyone wanted to be on high 527 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,400 aspect wing. Yeah, Luckily the trend has 528 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:20,120 faded and now the industry you've got basically you got the 529 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,200 high aspect wings, you got the Super high aspect wings, which 530 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,680 are downwinding wings. You got mid aspect wings. 531 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,160 Some brands even have a specific surf foil, which is basically a 532 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:37,520 mid aspect foil, which with easy pump ability and and then you 533 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,400 got the entry level wings. Yeah, which I which is an 534 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,960 extreme mid aspect foil. Yeah. 535 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,040 In the larger size, the cost of getting into the sport, the 536 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:53,240 barrier of entry is lower because the equipment got more 537 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,520 affordable and the equipment just makes it easier to get into 538 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,720 the sport. And you see that throughout all 539 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:04,640 disciplines, no matter if it's power winging, yeah, even even 540 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,000 downwinding. The downwinding is for a very 541 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:13,159 specific group. Yeah, because you you really 542 00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:17,520 need to learn how to fly your foil highly efficiently. 543 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,080 Is there anything overhyped, do you think, You know, people got 544 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,719 excited about it and really hasn't make that much difference 545 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,719 or really hasn't been widely adopted? 546 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:32,360 For me, what's in there is Foil Dr. comparing foil drive and 547 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,280 flight lab. Yeah, we teach people on both. 548 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,560 We also sell both. And the interesting thing is I 549 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:46,239 think like foil drive is had a huge breakthrough. 550 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,480 Yeah. And almost like everyone knows 551 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,040 foil drive, even people who don't foil, they might have 552 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:58,120 heard about foil drive, but it took foil drive a good two years 553 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,560 to have that breakthrough. They had their breakthrough not 554 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,440 only because the technology improved, but also because 555 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,680 people in foiling got better. The the general public, the 556 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,680 general community of foiling got better and got to a stage where 557 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,400 everyone was confident or lots and lots of people were 558 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,040 confident. Wow. 559 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,080 I'm now comfortable in foiling in flat water, let's say wing 560 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,160 foiling in flat water. I also wanna because I've got 561 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,160 the surfing background. I'm a long border, you know, not 562 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,000 the Super progressive surfer, but I'm a long border. 563 00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:39,400 I wanna get into waves and they had that hesitation. 564 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:46,920 Now foil drive takes this person into wave and we recently had 565 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,560 had a demo day with Flightlab which was very successful. 566 00:35:52,360 --> 00:36:00,120 But what we noticed it that a really good prone foiler or a 567 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:05,080 prone foiler who really knows how to pedal into a wave and can 568 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:10,520 do the pop up will appreciate the Flight Lab. 569 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,040 Yeah. So that will take another year 570 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:19,240 or a year and a half for the community to be big enough and 571 00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:22,280 to have a huge breakthrough with Flight Lab. 572 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,320 The guys in this category, there were guys like rocking up who 573 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,440 were like really good prone foilers. 574 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:35,680 Put them on the 28 leaderboard or the 32 leaderboard men, they 575 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,520 were catching so many waves. It was unbelievable. 576 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,080 And then you had guys who were not ready for the flight lap and 577 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:50,160 they didn't have a good time. And but I can see further down 578 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:55,040 the track the more don't get me wrong if I say that, but the 579 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,520 more agile the younger foil drive customers who are building 580 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,080 experience on the foil Dr. who are basically skipping the pedal 581 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,440 take off in the prone because they get on foil straight away 582 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,720 in a year and a half or in a year, they might look at the 583 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,600 flight lab and they say, wow, this is an amazing product. 584 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,240 Yeah, I'm up for it, I'm ready for it. 585 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:26,720 Yes, so, but is there anything where I think like this was a 586 00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:31,520 fair no, the the different power wings, that's a really fun one. 587 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,080 Gave reviews all of them and he does a really good job with 588 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,480 that. And I've also flown quite a few 589 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,680 And the beginnings of those power wings, there were some 590 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,280 huge advantages and disadvantages between them. 591 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,680 Yeah, but the power wing itself, the power wing itself is an 592 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:56,680 interesting category because for a really advanced foiler who 593 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,000 with some kiting background, maybe even paragliding 594 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,200 background, it's something to learn super easy within a 595 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,600 session, you're on the power wing, but for someone who 596 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,240 doesn't have that background, it takes a while. 597 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:14,600 Yeah, yeah. Look, I see I'm, I'm mostly wing 598 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,160 foiling and I haven't tried power winging, but I'm I'm on 599 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,480 the verge of it, I think. But I see a lot of people 600 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,520 sitting around in the ocean trying to get going with 601 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,280 parowing. So it does put me off a little 602 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,120 bit. But when I do see them flying 603 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,400 around, you know, either packed up the parowing or whatever 604 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,320 going downwind, it looks, it looks pretty attractive to me. 605 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:34,120 It looks pretty. Cool. 606 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,400 It's amazing and it's another challenge, you know, and we as 607 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,000 foilers, we are up for that challenge. 608 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,280 Yeah, yeah, I think to some degree those sort of done 609 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,240 foiling for a while. One of the things I find is some 610 00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:49,760 people kind of get a bit bored with one thing and they stop 611 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,160 wing falling for a while because they want to try something new. 612 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,920 So they pick up paralleling and then they'll go and get a foil 613 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,520 drive for a while and do that. We must be the sort of people 614 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,480 that like a challenge because we seem to all be jumping into all 615 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:01,840 of that really. Yeah. 616 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,200 The other thing I'm saying with Parowings is the brands are now 617 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,080 coming out with kind of almost three models, an upwind model, 618 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,520 one that goes really well upwind, one that's just for 619 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,960 getting up and getting going and going downwind that packs up 620 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,560 really easy, and then possibly one somewhere between the two. 621 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,080 So we're always getting to a point where most brands have got 622 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,480 2 models, if not 3, to cater for those different things now. 623 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,680 So it's evolving incredibly fast. 624 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:27,640 Yeah. But that that brings me a little 625 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,760 bit to the different markets in in, in Europe, you, you, you can 626 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,760 use a power wing instead of a wind wing just for cruising 627 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,560 around. And basically for lawn mowing, 628 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,000 you use a power wing and you don't need the power wing, which 629 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:47,880 takes you super high upwind because you can stay upwind with 630 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,840 the mid aspect power wing where you have a little bit more grant 631 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,920 in it. But if you want to use it for 632 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,160 down winning, for your down winning runs, you want the power 633 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,120 wing, which which takes you boom, upwind, and then you're to 634 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,120 do them downwind and then you do the same thing again. 635 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:05,400 Yeah. And it also flies. 636 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,240 This is a whole different topic, you know, talking about power 637 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:11,760 wings. I've been exposed to a few 638 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,120 extreme sports, Yeah, which I learned from scratch and caught 639 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,360 into coaching, teaching different people. 640 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,760 And you see kind of like similar characters, you know, in those 641 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,800 sports. And then and, and often you get 642 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,040 characters in that sport who who are up for the challenge. 643 00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:32,080 They love the ocean, they love nature, they love the mountains. 644 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,080 But they are definitely up for a challenge. 645 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:37,840 Yeah. And if they've mastered one 646 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,400 thing, they are looking for the new challenge. 647 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,080 And well, foiling has it, boiling has it all. 648 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,440 You touched on it before, one of the obviously foilings growing 649 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,520 and in the 80s windsurfing was growing. 650 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,200 It seemed like it wasn't ever going to stop. 651 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,440 The shops were having a great time with it and it was, it was 652 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,600 everywhere. There's a handful of windsurfers 653 00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,720 at our local spot. You hear them coming up behind 654 00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:02,560 you and whizzing by. But the numbers have dwindled 655 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,720 considerably over the years. What can wing foiling learn or 656 00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:09,880 what can foiling learn do you think from from what happened 657 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,920 with windsurfing over time? Is there something that the 658 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,440 industry should be doing differently to continue its 659 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,240 growth or is it just the evolution of water sports and 660 00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:21,720 these things have their time? At the time when windsurfing, 661 00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:26,160 starting to die, I was working for F2 and Arrows, yeah, back 662 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:32,320 then, and there was a huge diversification, trying to do 663 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:37,760 everything for everyone. And you can see that a little 664 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,240 bit following the same trend. While it's the same people who 665 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,400 who have certain brands, who have made certain brands highly 666 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:52,200 successful, they are kind of going into the same direction 667 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,160 where you have too many products, too many 668 00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,480 diversifications of the products available for customers. 669 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,240 It not only makes it difficult for the customer to make a 670 00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:09,880 choice, it also makes the life of the retailers super difficult 671 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,440 and I think down the track for the brand as well. 672 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:18,040 But is that something you can stop in our times where things 673 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:24,640 are changing so quickly and where people seem to have a very 674 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:31,240 short attention span and they need stimulation of something 675 00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:33,480 new? I think you can't. 676 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,800 Yeah. And you see that in the 677 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,760 progression of foiling, which I believe from the foil brands. 678 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,520 I have the theory, and I might be wrong, but the development in 679 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:51,360 foiling is not driven by economically. 680 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:56,120 It's driven by the owners of the brands having a passion for the 681 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,320 sport. And they might be sitting on, 682 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:06,040 let's say, let's pick a number, 1000 unsold foils, yeah, from a 683 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,160 specific type. But they are still releasing a 684 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,720 new one because they are passionate about the sport and 685 00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:16,200 there's more development happening and they just can't 686 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,600 wait to get the latest out. Plus there's huge pressure from 687 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,760 competition to bring out the next. 688 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:30,040 It gives you you a lot of room, you know, to do podcasts because 689 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,960 like every three months there were there's a new foil coming 690 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,160 out, which is true. It's a new benchmark. 691 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,640 Every three months, there's a new windowing coming out. 692 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,800 There's even a new variation of foiling coming out. 693 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,600 Yeah. But where this is going to lead 694 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,600 in the end, you know, people need people who are driving that 695 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,320 sport is schools, retailers, brands. 696 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,400 In the end of today, they need to make a living. 697 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,960 And for those who already made a living and they are running 698 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,320 those brands, you know, as their passion, well, even better. 699 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,600 It will set the tone. But waste is leading. 700 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,680 The industry is going in the right direction. 701 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,040 It's making the sport more accessible. 702 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,400 Yeah, to everyone. I think that's the right 703 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,680 direction. Once they are keen for it, they 704 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,880 need an advisor to get the right gear. 705 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,760 And unfortunately the sport is not growing as quick as there 706 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,800 are new brands coming on board. And we had that in in, in 707 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,400 windsurfing. Yeah. 708 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,480 And that came when Cobra, the board factory started to 709 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:44,040 introduce making the production for small number boards. 710 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,240 And we had like so many brands coming into the sport and that 711 00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:51,640 killed windsurfing because it made it unfeasible for a brand 712 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,080 to run their own development to have a proper team. 713 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,920 It's becoming super competitive, which to some extent in the 714 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,160 short term is probably really good for the consumer, right, 715 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:05,200 From a negotiation point of view, supply, demand from the 716 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,920 people who, yeah, as you say, the people who kind of keep this 717 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,960 sport driving the sport. You know, the the retailers, the 718 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,800 coaches, the schools, there's some challenges and they come 719 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,600 along with that. You know, I've even heard 720 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,960 stories where, you know, the next foil has come out, but the 721 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,360 brands are not letting retailers discount the old foil because 722 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,520 they don't want to damage their brand. 723 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,200 And so the shops are stuck with the old model foil in order to 724 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:36,200 keep stocking that brand's foils because they won't let them 725 00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,160 discount the out of the the previous model ones. 726 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:40,640 So they've just got them sitting there. 727 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,200 So there's some, there's some interesting things happening out 728 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,360 there which is making it hard, I think for retailers at times. 729 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,000 Yeah. But yeah, and, and that will 730 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,360 yeah, like this is a maybe a different conversation, but 731 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,920 it's, it's then basically leading in if the retailers are 732 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,320 not taking sufficient stock and then the brands are struggling 733 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,720 and the brands will look into the next stage of survival, 734 00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:09,440 which is direct selling. What happens with direct selling 735 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:15,800 that the consumer doesn't get the right advice, you know, when 736 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,080 they buy the product? We as a school, I think are in a 737 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,600 very good position because we are a school and the shop. 738 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,000 Yeah. So we, you offload the pressure 739 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,160 a little bit, you know, from the brands of like, guys buy enough 740 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,920 stock because then you're getting XYZ margins by guys. 741 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,800 We are your window for the consumer. 742 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,520 Everyone can rock up at the Hydrofoil Academy and can grab 743 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,360 the latest foil and give it a test run. 744 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,880 Yeah. And the shops struggle a little 745 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,920 bit with that. Yeah, depending on where they 746 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,120 are. Yeah, absolutely. 747 00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,040 Yeah. Anything else you want to cover 748 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,600 before I go to a few quick fire questions for you? 749 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,320 I think we covered a lot, yeah. We covered almost everything, 750 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,160 yeah. OK, cool. 751 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,120 All right, some quick fire questions doesn't necessarily 752 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,680 have to mean short answers, but I'm going to keep firing at you. 753 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,920 So if you could foil anywhere in the world tomorrow, where would 754 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,400 you go and what would you do? Well, this is such a hard 755 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,720 question fit because I have so many spots I haven't seen and I 756 00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:28,280 wanna go. Yeah. 757 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:35,080 And also my favorite spots if I could foil like, I would love to 758 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:41,240 be on a lonely island, you know, with a few foiling friends with 759 00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:45,120 an amazing break, where I have the most amazing surfing 760 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,240 conditions in the morning. And then at lunchtime, the wind 761 00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:53,960 sets in and we all start windfoiling, power winging, 762 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,440 downwinding. And that could be in WA, it 763 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:06,840 could be in South NSW, it could be in North NSW, it could be in 764 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,800 one of my favorite places, which is Cape Town. 765 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,560 It could be somewhere in Brazil. Yeah, where I don't have 766 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,880 thousands of people. Yeah, just a handful. 767 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:24,360 What's most important is to foiled together with a group of 768 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:29,600 super positive people who are excited about the sport, about 769 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:34,800 the life, share the passion about the ocean and sports and 770 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:40,120 moving and helping each other, and you can have that fun 771 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,080 anywhere in the world. Yeah, I see. 772 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,560 You know, it's one of the, I know I'm meant to be asking you 773 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,760 another question, but it's the, the community And I, I, I 774 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,960 probably harp on about that too much, but the falling community 775 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,760 is just fantastic in terms of just the amount of fun you can 776 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,120 have out there. You know, you know, you get 2, 777 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,760 two people going the opposite way, a wing flowing and, you 778 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,080 know, one will go woo Hoo and the other one will just go woo 779 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,240 Hoo might not even know each other, you know, and there's 780 00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:05,640 just this lovely kind of communication in the middle of 781 00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,200 the ocean and then on the beach there's all the chatter. 782 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,800 It takes you half an hour to an hour to get get out of the car 783 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,360 park. And that's if there's no pub 784 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,240 nearby. Just chatting to people about 785 00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:15,640 what they did and what they were using. 786 00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:17,400 And Yeah. And, and learning. 787 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,320 Everyone's trying to learn something new out there too. 788 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,560 So, you know, kind of getting ideas from each other. 789 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,480 It's, it's awesome. So you're right. 790 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,040 Almost anywhere. And it's about being with, with 791 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:27,240 some people that have the passion. 792 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,760 Yeah. What we just need, we need more 793 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,440 females in the sport, but that's going to come. 794 00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:35,680 It was the same with kite surfing. 795 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:42,640 I think when kite surfing was sport, totally male dominated 796 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:47,000 and then all of a sudden the young girls came in and now kite 797 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,880 surfing is I would say at least 50% girls, 50%. 798 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,120 Guys. Yeah, right. 799 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,800 Yeah, yeah, it would, it would be good to say it's, you know, 800 00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,360 we see quite a good mix here in WA, but it's certainly on the 801 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,320 guys side. We're seeing more and more women 802 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,560 getting into a wing falling, probably less so on the prone 803 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,440 falling or downwinding, but it's happening. 804 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:12,760 But wing foiling is certainly growing and often starts with 805 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,560 partners getting involved, which is good because that gives you a 806 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,600 license to buy more falling gear if both of you are in are into 807 00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,280 it. It's always very hard to 808 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,120 convince the partner who's not into foiling to understand why 809 00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,480 you need to get a new foil. But yeah, we're seeing a bit of 810 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,680 growth, I think over time, but mostly in wing falling, not in 811 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,560 the other disciplines as much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 812 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:38,240 What about what's 1 skill that people should work on, should 813 00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:41,200 practice to really improve their foiling technique? 814 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,680 Mobility and body alignment. Yeah. 815 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,000 That's it. Mobility and body alignment. 816 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,400 Yeah. And that will help not only help 817 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,880 you in foiling, it will help you in any other sport you do. 818 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:54,880 And it will help you in your daily life. 819 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,920 It will give you more fun, you know, for the next year. 820 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,720 And we'll open up tricks and moves. 821 00:51:03,720 --> 00:51:05,880 Yeah. In your most favorite sport, 822 00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:10,080 which you even haven't thought about it, My skateboarding now 823 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,160 is better. I'm 52, yeah. 824 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,320 And my skateboarding. Now I can do tricks which I 825 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,360 couldn't do when I was 16 because I have a better 826 00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:24,960 understanding of how I can make this trick work and how I need 827 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,560 to use my body. And so someone that wants to 828 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,080 work on that, how do they do that? 829 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,440 What are they? What's the process for doing 830 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,320 that? Is there places you can get 831 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:37,080 lessons to be more aware of it, or is it really just being 832 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:38,440 conscious and thinking about it more? 833 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,200 No, I think it's, it's super simple. 834 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,880 You start doing strengthening training. 835 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,040 Simple strengthening training, nothing super fancy, not super 836 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,680 fancy calisthenics, yeah, just meaningful strengthening 837 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,720 training without weights. Get started with three times a 838 00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:58,360 week. You will see after three weeks, 839 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,440 you will feel things while you're doing those exercises and 840 00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:06,880 and you're like, oh wow, this is that in my glute or this is that 841 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,920 in my core? Yeah, or in my biceps and 842 00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,760 triceps. And so you do that and that will 843 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:19,080 create this awareness. And when you keep doing that, 844 00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:25,120 after three months, you can transfer that into your foiling, 845 00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,960 for example, or your tennis or your golfing, or even just 846 00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:33,240 walking up the stairs and walking down the stairs, apart 847 00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:37,240 from doing the sport itself. But if you can do that kind of 848 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:42,400 three to six times a week just for 20 minutes, you are on a 849 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,720 winner, I guarantee you. Yeah, that's good advice. 850 00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:49,640 And you can reach out to me and I can put you in the right 851 00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,960 direction, but it's it's quite simple. 852 00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,280 Fantastic. And last question, how would you 853 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,680 describe foiling in one word? It's flying above the. 854 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:08,640 Water yeah OK yeah, well thank you so much for coming on the on 855 00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,240 the podcast. I mean the schools like yours 856 00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,720 really important to this to this sport in terms of its you know 857 00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:18,600 continued growth and continued growth is good for all of us and 858 00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:20,920 making that journey fun for beginners. 859 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,320 It isn't an easy sport. I think that's really important. 860 00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,200 And so thank you for being involved in doing that because, 861 00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:28,360 you know, the more people that get involved, the bigger the 862 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,320 sport. I think it's, you know, it can 863 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,680 be better for everyone. Thanks for coming on the podcast 864 00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:34,320 and great to chat. Totally. 865 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,400 Thank you so much for having me, Pete. 866 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:37,720 It's awesome. Talking to you.