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I'm Pete Walmsley and welcome 
back to the Foilers Podcast, a 

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show where we dive deep into the
world of foiling with the 

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legends, innovators, and passion
individuals pushing the boundary

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of this incredible sport and 
driving it forward. 

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This podcast is an extension of 
the Foilers website, so take 

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some time to check it out when 
you get a moment. 

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And don't forget to subscribe to
this podcast so you can get the 

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latest content when it goes 
live. 

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In this episode, I spoke to 
Jerome and Leopold who designed 

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foils for duo time. 
We talked through their design 

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philosophies and approach and 
evolving technologies used to 

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design and build foils. 
We also talk about how they 

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respond to the market and 
balance the need to deliver what

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the market needs or expects now 
by also looking ahead, educating

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the market and introducing new 
approaches and designs for 

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better performance. 
We also talk through their 

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current foil range and their 
applications. 

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It's a particularly interesting 
chart for those looking to 

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understand the thinking behind 
foil design and the decisions 

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and steps that are taken in 
going from a product idea to the

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launch of a new foil. 
Enjoy, Jerome. 

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Yeah. 
Where are you joining us from? 

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Yeah, joining you from 
Mauritius? 

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Yep, Mauritius island. 
Yeah, that too. 

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Fantastic. 
Yeah. 

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And chatting to you. 
Yeah, yeah, I've heard some 

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really good things. 
But I had some friends just come

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back from Mauritius. 
They had a great time. 

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You've got to be. 
There's some places in Mauritius

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I've got. 
I understand you've got to be 

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pretty good. 
Some of the waves are about kind

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of two KS out in your in your 
location, but when you get out 

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there, they're they're pretty 
spectacular from what I 

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understand. 
Yeah, completely, yeah. 

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The the spot of Le Moin is very 
well known for kiting, 

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windsurfing and and now winging 
a little bit more technical when

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you're a winger because there's 
not that much water in the in 

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the Laguna. 
So you want to be able to, 

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you've got to be able to get 
going quickly and then go over 

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some shallow sparks and then 
head to the waves. 

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So yeah, but as you said, once, 
once you do get to the waves, 

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it's it's it's magical. 
It's almost like this wave was 

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was made for, for winning. 
It's it's just perfect. 

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I sensed a pretty good video 
footage, that's for sure. 

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Yeah, sadly, my friend lost 
their GoPro, such was the the 

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kind of the the heart of some of
those waves and the movement out

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there. 
But she managed to get some 

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footage down. 
She was there for a few days, so

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that's good. 
Yeah. 

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And Leopold, where are you 
joining us from? 

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I'm based at Lake Kimsey. 
It's a Big Lake in southern 

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Germany, but not so famous, not 
not, not so much wind. 

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It's like 40 minutes from Munich
and I'm working actually in 

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Munich. 
And that's also where the Duo 

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John R&D is based close to 
Munich. 

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Yeah. 
So you're, you're both, you're 

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both working with duo tone 
designing foils. 

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It'd be good to hear. 
How did you get into that? 

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What's your background and what 
is your, what is the role 

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involve? 
So maybe if we could start with 

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you, Jerome. 
And I actually studied in Perth 

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in Western WA, started doing 
some mechanic like mechanical 

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engineering there. 
And this picture is actually 

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from Woodman Point where I was 
doing a lot of fighting back in 

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the days. 
And back then I, that's when I 

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learned how to use the, the card
softwares, SolidWorks in 

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particular, which is what I'm 
using to design hydrofoils. 

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So it started with with me 
originally designing the, the 

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kick bar. 
I don't know if you're familiar 

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with the, the, the kite kick bar
from, from the hotel. 

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Does that ring a bell? 
So yeah, that was a design that 

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I worked on back in 2000 and 19 
when I was at university. 

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And a few years later I ended up
selling the patent that I had on

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the Sky Bar to Jordan. 
And that's how I kind of got my 

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foot through the door. 
And I started working with them 

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a couple of years after that 
foiling started getting bigger 

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and bigger. 
And they they were just starting

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the, the foil range. 
And on my side, I was also 

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playing around designing and 
building hydrofoil with, with a 

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friend of mine. 
And yeah, at some point can 

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Winner, who was the original 
foil designer for Geo Turn, he 

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suddenly had to make the kites, 
the wings and the foils. 

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And it was just way too much for
for him. 

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So they approached me and they 
asked, yeah, would you be 

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interested to us to start doing 
the foils for us? 

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Because obviously can cannot do 
everything. 

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And yeah, that's how I started. 
We started on the very first 

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project, which was the data on 
our foil, which was a very fast 

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kite foil dedicated that sort of
like competition writing. 

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And that's how we actually also 
straight away started working 

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with Leopold because the the 
guys from from Duo turn wanted 

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us to have some some help from 
from some professionals, which 

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which is what the company 
Liverpool works for. 

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Maybe Liverpool can add a few 
words about this. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
So what was the the photo, call 

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it when we when we stepped in? 
Was this it was the Daytona? 

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Daytona. 
The first Daytona for. 

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Me. 
So yeah, it was the I have a 

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strong sailing background. 
What did all the sailing use? 

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Classes and up to the 49er in 
the Olympic classes and yeah and

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after I stopped sailing I I was 
working and I started working at

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the accent it's a small 
exclusive engineering office in 

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Munich it came out of the 
America's Cup and and the BMW 

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world. 
We are now 7 people so quite 

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small and I have a lot of 
projects. 

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We are doing a lot of sports and
winter sports, summer sports at 

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the moment now America's Cup. 
But we are involved in the site 

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GP. 
The we were doing the Pica Moss,

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you know this Moss boats. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

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Yeah. 
And yeah. 

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And with also some with, with 
all the background. 

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We we came together with, there 
was a friend of mine who was 

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working for Duetong from, from 
sailing. 

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He he more or less connected us 
and yeah. 

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And then we kind of had a first 
project and yeah, it was a 

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really good teamwork between 
Jerome and on our side and yeah.

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And we just kept on moving and 
didn't, we didn't know at that 

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time that we will we will do a 
lot of so many foils and a whole

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more or less a whole foil range 
for all disciplines. 

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But a long long long run now 
already I. 

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Just want to take a moment to 
let you know that this episode 

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is brought to you by Air Pumps 
Australia. 

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A couple of years ago I 
introduced the Airbank Puffer 

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fantastic way to get my falling 

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gear pumped up efficiently so I 
can get out in the water faster 

126
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and I no longer have to carry 
around one of those annoyingly 

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bulky hand pumps. 
The response to this pump has 

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00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,280
All proceeds to keeping the 
Foilers podcast going. 

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Now back to the episode and in 
terms of your approach to 

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designing foils, what's your 
philosophy and and duo tones 

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philosophy? 
I'm very passionate writer, like

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I do a lot of of writing to 
start with and I really like all

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sides of the foiling, whether 
it's the kite foiling, the dock 

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starting, the surf foiling, the 
windsurf foiling, I really enjoy

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all of it. 
So when I'm designing a foil, 

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I'm obviously always wanting to 
design something for me, like 

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something that I would like. 
So of course I want something 

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that's performant. 
I want something that's easy to 

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use. 
Especially when we think a 

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little bit about the commercial 
aspect of designing something 

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for a big brand like Your Turn. 
We always have this one 

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parameter to keep in mind, that 
it has to be able to work for a 

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lot of people, right? 
So that's something that we 

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always keep in mind. 
Yeah, we want it to be, I mean, 

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it's, it's a bit cliche to say, 
but yeah, we want it to be as 

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light as possible. 
We want it to be as low dry as 

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possible. 
We want to optimize everything, 

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you know, as, as any designer I 
think would want to do. 

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And having Leopold to help me 
with with that part, like 

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especially all the structure and
the lightweight, which is 

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completely his Forte. 
Like it's, it's super nice. 

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Like I'm more of the rider and 
he's more like the brain, if you

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want. 
And, and we work well like that 

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where I have an idea, I want 
something and then I'll bounce 

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it back with him and see with 
him how we could make it work 

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and what are our options in 
terms of the, the materials. 

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And like, that's really his 
expertise, right? 

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And between the two of us, we 
always end up, you know, finding

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something that that works. 
Yeah. 

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And So what does, what does that
process look like? 

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So, so where do the ideas come 
from? 

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Obviously you're out riding, 
you're getting some ideas, I 

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presume to team riders kind of 
get involved in that process and

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where do they come in and and 
how does it go from idea to 

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generation at duo tone? 
Yes. 

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So we have a nice sort of team 
about there's about six of us 

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that meet every every week just 
for, for the fight. 

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And there's three of us. 
So Leopold, myself and Alex who 

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are completely dedicated 100% to
the full department. 

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And then there's class Bogut and
Craig Guttenbach, who are most 

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of managing the whole sort of 
wing division as a as a whole, 

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right. 
So between the five, yeah, five 

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of us, we will discuss things 
like, OK, where the markets 

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going, what our dealers, what 
our schools asking for. 

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And of course, because we're all
all of us are riders as well, 

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what are we looking for in our 
day-to-day writing? 

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00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,480
So we, you know, we're always 
brainstorming, always fighting 

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about, you know, one of one of 
the sudden view and someone 

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00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:21,840
else. 
And it's always funny arguments 

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00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,920
between us. 
But at the end of the day, yeah,

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we take, we spend a lot of time 
processing all that information 

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00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,720
and making sure that whichever 
direction we're going into makes

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sense. 
You know, as as of all as of the

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00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:37,040
company, every now and then we 
do like a specialized product 

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00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,600
that we know is only targeted 
out of few individuals. 

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00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:45,400
But 95% of what we do as a brand
is like commercial product that 

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00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,720
a lot of people can jump on and 
accessible. 

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00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,720
So yeah, it'll just to, to come 
back to your initial question, 

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00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,600
it will start, I would say yes, 
often from me like I will come 

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00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,320
and I'll have an idea and I'll 
pitch it during our meeting and 

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00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,480
I'll say, hey guys, how about we
do this and then we discuss it 

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00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,160
as a group and we go for it or 
not. 

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00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,920
And from there onwards we work 
with with low power and and all 

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00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,040
the rest. 
And how is that, you know, in 

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00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,520
the time you've been involved in
designing and developing foils, 

200
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,040
how's that kind of process 
evolved? 

201
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,080
What's you know, is it pretty 
well the same sort of process 

202
00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,040
has always been or is is there 
sort of new technology, new 

203
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,800
tools that have come in place? 
You know what are the changes 

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00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,080
been I. 
Mean you, you can, you clearly 

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00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:32,680
recognize that the, the whole 
foil market is it's getting much

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00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:37,080
more scientific or there's much 
more research in the background.

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00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,920
There's more, some brands are 
really collecting data, doing 

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00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,480
all the stuff we are also doing.
And that's what you definitely 

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00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,440
recognize. 
At the beginning, it was more 

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00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:53,080
than the designers, which there 
was the, yeah, the the artists 

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00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,640
which came around was the nice 
idea. 

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00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,080
And now it's more and more 
getting to logical steps, which 

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00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,000
are going more and more in the 
same direction. 

214
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,200
But yeah, coming back to the 
question before what? 

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00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:05,920
What's your own? 
That it's, it's super 

216
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,000
interesting always so many 
times. 

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00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,800
Sometimes the, the new ideas are
just a logical step, which is 

218
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,720
the next step. 
And everyone agrees on it 

219
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,760
because it's, it's the next 
thing to do. 

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00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,560
But sometimes you have to just 
to sink out-of-the-box. 

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00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:21,720
And that's, that's where you 
have all this discussion because

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00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,280
for some it's, it's a clear next
step for them. 

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00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,600
It's they cannot imagine it. 
And then, and that's a really a 

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00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,960
thing where where I believe 
Sherome is really at the at the 

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00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,200
front because he's so many ideas
which pop up somewhere he 

226
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,440
already had them. 
And that's always nice to 

227
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,160
because he's so close to the 
market. 

228
00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:42,640
You know, I suppose, I mean, 
there's a couple of things 

229
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:43,880
there. 
One, you talked about the art 

230
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,440
and the science and it sounds 
like maybe in the early days 

231
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,320
there was a lot of art and a bit
of science and now there's a bit

232
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,600
of art and a lot of science. 
So that's an evolution. 

233
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,840
And then the other thing is kind
of knowing what the market wants

234
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,360
and, and developing, you know, 
like any innovation, sometimes 

235
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,240
you hear from the market, but 
sometimes you've got to be ahead

236
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,800
of the market and try and. 
That's a that's a big problem at

237
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,840
what we are doing in this 
developing sports technology. 

238
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:12,200
If you're too, if you do a too 
big step or you're too fast, it 

239
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,760
can be a problem. 
If just nobody knows how to 

240
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,600
control, nobody learned to 
control that, for example a 

241
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,840
future foil, then they will not 
like it. 

242
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,080
Yeah, yeah, you. 
Have to do certain steps and 

243
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,400
sometimes you can do big steps, 
but yeah, it's always the road 

244
00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:30,720
which needs to be everyone has 
to go with. 

245
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,120
Yeah, yeah, I suppose you're all
in. 

246
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,600
And that's the other point, you 
know that there are lots of 

247
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,320
brands competing in this space. 
So in working with duo tone and 

248
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,040
and developing your foils, what 
do you see as the competitive 

249
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,760
advantage for foil design and 
development with duo Tone 

250
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:47,320
compared to what's out there? 
I. 

251
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,000
Mean we've we've got this big 
brand behind us, right? 

252
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:56,520
So whether it's some investment 
that we have to do in expensive 

253
00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:01,000
moles or some kind of expensive 
technology, I think we have this

254
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,640
possibility where if we pitch it
right to the guys and if we can 

255
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,560
show them, hey, here's what 
here's what's going to be the 

256
00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:11,880
return on that. 
We we have maybe some facilities

257
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,920
compared to a smaller brand that
would maybe have to think a bit 

258
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,600
more about investing this much. 
Am I going to get the money 

259
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:23,120
back, blah, blah, blah. 
So I think that's one one good 

260
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,600
point of of working for a brand 
like Joto, especially when we 

261
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,640
start talking our about our D 
Lab products. 

262
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:36,880
This whole D Lab brand is built 
around the idea of what can we 

263
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:41,120
do like money's in a way money 
is no problem is not an issue. 

264
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,120
How far can we push the 
technology. 

265
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,760
So it's nice having having that 
backup from from a company like 

266
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,680
Joto. 
Something else is for me 

267
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,040
personally is to be able to work
like with people like airport 

268
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,160
who are in specialized companies
that have worked for the 

269
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,640
Americas Cup that work in other 
disciplines and have the this 

270
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,160
really broad vision of the not 
only doing hydrophils, they're 

271
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,120
doing lots of other projects. 
And sometimes an idea might come

272
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,920
from the car world, you know, 
like he might have worked on a 

273
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:17,000
project for BMW and is our head 
actually, we've started building

274
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,400
the frame of the cars this way. 
How about we use that same idea 

275
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,400
into a mass where hydrofoil for 
example, you know this working 

276
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:29,120
with with guys like this where 
it just broadens your field of 

277
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,040
vision in a way. 
Yeah. 

278
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,480
And in terms of that Geo tone 
range, it's really evolved over 

279
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,000
the years. 
Was there a particular turning 

280
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,320
point of a product to sort of a 
generation or a particular 

281
00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,680
product do you think that stood 
out for for or duo tone as fall 

282
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,400
range when you when you look 
back? 

283
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,480
I don't know what you think 
Polo, but I guess it's when we, 

284
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,600
when we started introducing all 
the the carbon masks, the semi 

285
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,760
glider that we started making, 
let's say sexier products, 

286
00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,360
right? 
Yeah. 

287
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,240
I think that right at the start,
back then, we were actually 

288
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,160
called fanatic, the Fanatic 
force, and we were one of the 

289
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:12,920
very first ones to pose for us 
as Ken Winner was practically 

290
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:17,400
the guy that invented winging. 
So he started with the first 

291
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,520
fours dedicated for winning back
in. 

292
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,680
I don't know when I was 2018 or 
17 or something like that. 

293
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:29,840
And back then, back then, I 
think Ken was really focused on 

294
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:32,440
and making hydro. 
Fuels that were. 

295
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,040
Super easy to use because he he 
could see the potential for the 

296
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,320
sport, but he also knew that he 
had to make. 

297
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,920
I mean, I'm speaking for him 
there, but I guess that was his 

298
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,680
his fault process. 
He could see the potential for 

299
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,760
the sport. 
He wanted to make something 

300
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,640
super easy to use. 
And we started with these 

301
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,520
massive following, like super 
thick, really tolerant profiles.

302
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,400
And he built all that on a 
throne, maybe now over built, 

303
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,720
you could say system, but it had
super strong mass, super strong 

304
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,680
fuselage, big front wings, big 
back wings. 

305
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,359
And I think that that stuck with
us a little bit for a while. 

306
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,599
Like people would see us as the 
guys that were making these big 

307
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:18,119
bulky setups. 
And as soon as we turn around to

308
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:23,040
the the most sexy carbon semi 
glider, I feel that's where the 

309
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:28,040
suddenly people started taking 
more like giving more attention 

310
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:29,680
to the Jordan Brown. 
I don't, I don't know what you 

311
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,720
think your pool, but I think 
that's kind of when we. 

312
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,000
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's 
definitely this. 

313
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,360
This was was a turning point. 
Also when you remember about the

314
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:42,040
mast which we we spent so many 
time in developing the mast, 

315
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,040
getting it real light, getting 
it really stiff, but still 

316
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,760
reliable. 
I just remember when we made the

317
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,640
first carbon mast, which was 
super light that the guys, the 

318
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,040
sport was evolving so much and 
there were jumping like 2 meters

319
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:58,520
and then we were reinforcing it 
a bit. 

320
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,320
The next one month later they 
were jumping 6 meters and it 

321
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,120
was, but we kind of at the end, 
this must was really, it was, 

322
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,760
was a long road at at this time,
but with all the, the fiber mix 

323
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,720
and, and the right layup and 
everything. 

324
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,800
And it was, it was a really cool
time. 

325
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,880
And and you noticed later that 
there were a lot of, there were 

326
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,960
not many carbon masks out there 
which were as good as the one 

327
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,120
from us was just a few. 
And that was also something 

328
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:29,040
which went in the market then 
this, the stiffness and the 

329
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,680
reliability. 
And that was, yeah, that was it 

330
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,160
perhaps was not recognized in 
the market as we recognized it, 

331
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,760
but there was an influence from 
from this. 

332
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,600
In terms of approaching foil 
design and where the sort of 

333
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:48,560
emphasis is, to what degree is 
it still about designing a foil 

334
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,600
and its design or how you use 
the sort of the layout, the the 

335
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,440
materials to actually make the 
foil? 

336
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,480
Where's the focus now? 
Is it still in both or is it 

337
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,360
more about how you use the 
carbon? 

338
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,240
And the reason I ask is because 
I know there's one company's 

339
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,080
just brought out sort of the 
second version of their foil and

340
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,600
the foil itself is exactly the 
same design. 

341
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,080
All that's different is the way 
they've used the carbon. 

342
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,840
Yeah, that's it's always a close
connection that the question. 

343
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,840
So if you are, if you're doing 
it right, the question is what 

344
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,560
is right? 
But if you have a small mistake 

345
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,680
from the beginning or not, not 
perfectly, it's, it's quite a 

346
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,880
good thing to update it on the 
layer. 

347
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,960
Sometimes you oh, also we have 
to update sometimes when you 

348
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:34,760
just recognize a different load 
case or the, the, the sports 

349
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,280
evolves and they are using it 
differently and then you need to

350
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,600
adjust it. 
And it's not only about 

351
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,920
strengths, it's also about and 
the deflection, you can also 

352
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,520
work with the layup in having 
influence on the performance. 

353
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,960
That's definitely something. 
But for me, it's, it's always, 

354
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:54,920
that's what we always try. 
That's we, we try to see it as a

355
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,120
whole picture because at the end
when you, you can design 

356
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:01,120
something which is really fast, 
but at the end you cannot build 

357
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:03,400
it or. 
You build something really 

358
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,560
strong and it's not fast. 
That's, that's always the, the 

359
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,960
big goal to, to have all the 
parameters in in mind. 

360
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,440
And that's, that was really in 
the America's Cup world or 

361
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,040
Formula One world. 
That's where all those 

362
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:21,120
optimization tools and this are 
just coming in and doing the 

363
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:24,720
extra rounds, which are would 
take too much time for us to to 

364
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,240
do it. 
And they are such good tools 

365
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,600
which we have there, which are 
helping us so much. 

366
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,880
And in the design process, it 
strikes me that you're just 

367
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,160
constantly playing with 
trade-offs, you know, even just 

368
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:40,400
so lightness and stiffness and 
then maneuverability and ease to

369
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,320
get on foil, you've got to 
constantly make this sort of 

370
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,240
adjustment and and decision that
that compromises is. 

371
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,880
And the market, that's also 
something when the market is 

372
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,360
having a certain thickness for 
the mast, you also have to have 

373
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,760
it. 
You cannot come thicker because 

374
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,480
your systems say it's better 
then you need to make it worse. 

375
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,320
And yeah, that are that are a 
lot of parameters. 

376
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:07,640
That's something I always 
appreciate a lot with Sharon 

377
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,720
because he just has it in mind 
kind of he has a good feeling 

378
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,960
for it having a look on all 
these parameters. 

379
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,160
And yeah. 
And at the end depends on the 

380
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,960
projects on them projects we go,
we have more time and we do it 

381
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,760
more precise and, and really can
use all optimization tools. 

382
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,560
And sometimes with the time you 
we collect so, so much data on 

383
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,760
all the also on the hydro side, 
you collect so, so much data 

384
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,080
that you already can sometimes 
predict quite, quite good on 

385
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,240
something. 
But at the end you see it, 

386
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,080
right? 
It's it's a big, it's a big, the

387
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,960
job is to to control all the 
parameters, right? 

388
00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:44,360
And there are so many parameters
in a foil. 

389
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,240
Yeah. 
And that's, that's always the 

390
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,600
question, which parameter has to
be where and where. 

391
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,000
It's also not easy to to. 
That's always a nice discussion 

392
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,120
when we have our weekly meeting,
for sure. 

393
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:00,880
Everyone wants to get better on 
every aspect. 

394
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,040
And we had times where it was 
easy for us to do the next 

395
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,080
generation because of the 
generation before was not 

396
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,000
perfect. 
It's getting more and more 

397
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,560
difficult, but still it just 
means that we have to precisely 

398
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,640
go. 
It's just more clear. 

399
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:21,480
Yeah, yeah, you go, Joe. 
Yeah, I think also the the 

400
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,640
market is evolving. 
A couple of years ago it was 

401
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,120
very important to to put a 
product in the shop that was 

402
00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:31,160
super simple, like the customer 
needed to walk in. 

403
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:36,240
There was a specific mass lands,
specific fuselage, land specific

404
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,680
frog wing and a back wing. 
And the customer was told this 

405
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,800
is what you need to buy, you 
know, keep it simple, get on it.

406
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,880
Now we see that the customers 
are more and more interested, at

407
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,200
least some of them. 
They, they like playing with 

408
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,400
their gear. 
Like they're suddenly realizing,

409
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,640
hold on. 
I swapped from that stabilizer 

410
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,400
to that one and suddenly, as you
say, like suddenly I'm focusing 

411
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,760
more on maneuverability. 
I've lost a little bit of high 

412
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,480
speed control or something. 
But for what I want to do with 

413
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,360
my phone, it actually works 
better if I go to a slightly 

414
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:06,440
smaller size. 
And that's super interesting 

415
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,560
because now we can start 
presenting our foils a little 

416
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,200
bit differently. 
Instead of telling them here's a

417
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,720
foil, you just buy it as a, as a
complete setup. 

418
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,680
We can focus more on each of the
components and really describe 

419
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,960
what this front windows, what 
this fuselage lens does, what 

420
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,720
this back windows. 
And we allow the customers to 

421
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,160
sort of pick and choose in the 
ranch. 

422
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,560
And it's it's kind of a tricky 
thing, right, Because you don't 

423
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,920
want to confuse the consumer. 
You don't want to give him too 

424
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,880
many options that he ends up 
putting completely wrong back 

425
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,200
wing. 
That was the wrong fun wing. 

426
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,480
And then he has like a bad 
experience with your foot. 

427
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,280
So it's kind of a tricky, tricky
line to walk. 

428
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,200
But it's also interesting 
because it generates a lot of 

429
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,120
interest from the customers. 
It generates a lot of chat 

430
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:53,680
afterwards on the beach, you 
know, between the between the 

431
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,480
guys, you know, today I went out
with a small fuse. 

432
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,680
It's part of the whole writing 
experience, right? 

433
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,800
Like playing with your gear. 
And I feel like we're just 

434
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,960
getting into it. 
It's things that we do as as 

435
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:10,840
designers, we're constantly 
playing with these parameters 

436
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,120
that we're like couple of years 
ago we were playing with them so

437
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:18,720
that at the end we could propose
the one thing that works for for

438
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,560
the mouse. 
Yeah, now we're playing with 

439
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,480
them and we are able to tell the
customers, here's what's going 

440
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,480
to happen when you pick this, 
here's what's going to happen. 

441
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:27,680
I say, I think that's 
interesting. 

442
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,200
Like it, we're kind of passing 
more and more knowledge to the 

443
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,960
customer actually, if you know 
what I mean. 

444
00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:34,840
Yeah, yeah. 
I mean. 

445
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,160
With a with a taste talks that 
that's quite a good tool you 

446
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,560
were doing Sean. 
But yeah, I think that's a 

447
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,680
really good point. 
And Jerome just mentioned this, 

448
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,360
I think in the past that we it 
and it's still our goal. 

449
00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:52,480
When you see a full range, the 
goal is that, that you can 

450
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,920
change the front wings or the 
whole foil setup and you don't 

451
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,840
have to move your mast. 
Because just at the beginning 

452
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,440
you recognized when when you had
foils and you were changing the 

453
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,600
size and then you had to move 
your mast forward and backwards.

454
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:12,160
And it's just too difficult for 
for a beginner or for for guys 

455
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,960
getting into the sports which 
want to change the foils. 

456
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,000
And then you have you buy the 
one foil smaller and you cannot 

457
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,760
write it because the must is 
wrong. 

458
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,920
And this was that that's 
something we we are still 

459
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,840
tracking quite a lot. 
And also the stiffness that they

460
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,560
that feel the same. 
They have the same flex through 

461
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,640
the whole family of of one type 
of foil. 

462
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,480
But right now it's more going in
this options. 

463
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,880
And there there's a big, big 
thing to to explain the options,

464
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,080
yes. 
Yeah, I can really relate to 

465
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,000
what you're saying about the 
massing because I was using a 

466
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,520
foil sort of set and change 
front wings and I just could not

467
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,800
get my mouse far enough forward 
for this thing to work. 

468
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,280
I had nothing on my front foot. 
And in the end I just got out of

469
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,560
that. 
I just sold all my gear and 

470
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,360
changed. 
Yeah, that's, that's, that was 

471
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:02,600
something we really, really 
focus on them years ago and now 

472
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,440
it's in the process in our tools
that we have it. 

473
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,320
It's when you compare the 
biggest to the smallest foil. 

474
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,280
Sometimes you have to move it a 
bit because there there is 

475
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,120
sometimes something, it depends 
on the on the on the range. 

476
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,280
Some ranges have like 3 or 4 
sizes, there's no problem. 

477
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,560
But if you have like 8 sizes or 
something or quite a big step, 

478
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,680
then it could be. 
But from size to size, it should

479
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,880
be possible just to change the 
foil and and keep it simple and 

480
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,800
write it. 
Because at the end, probably 

481
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,800
most of the foilers are just 
getting the stuff and getting 

482
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,000
out when they have after work. 
They, they are not with their 

483
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,120
head, they are not into it and 
they, they just want to screw it

484
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:44,080
on. 
They they are happy when they do

485
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,280
everything right with the screw 
and they want to just have fun. 

486
00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:48,640
Yeah, look, I think there's 
there are those that want to 

487
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,280
tweak, tweak it and play with 
it, but I think there's a hell 

488
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,240
of a lot. 
They just want to put their foil

489
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,560
gear together, get out there and
they just, you know, have fun 

490
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,720
and, and, and if they do tweak 
it, it's easy to do. 

491
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,320
Yeah. 
And and now I think the the, the

492
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:07,800
step that Sharon described, the 
options we can have now, they're

493
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,160
really nice. 
You have to explain them to 

494
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,400
some. 
You don't have to explain them 

495
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,200
because they are already so much
into it. 

496
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,160
And that's also a big step 
forward. 

497
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,840
But on the same time it needs 
there needs to be an easy 

498
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,440
option. 
Yeah, I think that's always 

499
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,080
definitely still a lot of people
coming into the sport still got,

500
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,720
you know, a massive amount of 
growth, I think. 

501
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,240
There are so many things you can
do wrong on on the foil setup. 

502
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,000
Still, if it's easy, if you 
remember Sharon, there were. 

503
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,240
I mean, I, one of the things I 
did, I, I, yeah, I, I just 

504
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,360
assumed I had moved my foil 
forward when I one stage when I 

505
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:41,880
changed my front wing and it 
made it really, really unstable.

506
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,160
And I, I felt like I was just 
not good enough for that smaller

507
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,880
foil. 
And then one day I just moved 

508
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,200
that, that mass back and it just
the whole thing stabilised 

509
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,880
again. 
And I'm like, jeez, I've been 

510
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,400
doing this for a little bit. 
That, that's pretty 

511
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,680
straightforward. 
You know, it was a bit of a 

512
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,320
silly mistake, but the 
difference it made was just 

513
00:27:58,320 --> 00:27:59,960
massive getting these things 
right. 

514
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,360
Yeah, Jerome can talk through 
some of the the kind of latest 

515
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:08,280
models and and kind of who 
they're designed for, for for 

516
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,800
anyone that's not as familiar 
with the Geo tone foil range. 

517
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,560
So I suppose the latest force 
we've launched are the the curve

518
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:23,800
3.0 and the blitz. 
So the curve 3.0 is our wave 

519
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,840
slash freestyle front wing. 
So it's a, let's say medium 

520
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,760
aspect ratio, around 7/7 and 1/2
aspect ratio. 

521
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,520
And it works well for wave 
riding. 

522
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,640
It's going to be the wing you 
want to pick when the waves are 

523
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,520
quite powerful, like if you've 
got steep reef waves or things 

524
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:48,360
like that, It it allows you to 
to sit quite in the critical 

525
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,720
section of the wave and then go 
fast. 

526
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,760
And that same sort of high speed
that you're able to achieve on 

527
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,080
these front wings is really 
interesting for freestylers 

528
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,560
because they can go like really,
really fast just before popping 

529
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,880
out. 
So a lot of our team riders on 

530
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,360
the world Tour, etcetera, they 
are competing on the cards. 3.0 

531
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,200
It's a popular wing in certain 
markets. 

532
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,720
Others, it's not at all popular.
In Mauritius for example, on the

533
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,160
spot of Le Mond where we have 
nice like reef breaks, a lot of 

534
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,040
the guys on the calf, they 
really like it. 

535
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,000
Yeah, I know in Europe where 
they do a lot of freestyle, it's

536
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,080
also very popular. 
The wing, we see actually many 

537
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:30,400
of the competitor athletes who 
are buying this car from us to 

538
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,480
go on the world too. 
So that's actually interesting 

539
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,000
for for us to see that it's kind
of recognized as a as a 

540
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,320
benchmark in the freestyle 
world. 

541
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,200
Started with the calf 2.0 the 
previous generation and now it's

542
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,800
a 3.0 sort of would building on 
to that. 

543
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,160
And the other four that we 
released recently is the Blitz. 

544
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,400
The Blitz is kind of a free 
race, free race foil for kite 

545
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:59,520
foiling, wing foiling, sort of 
something designed around the 

546
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,360
stability like itch stability, 
role stability. 

547
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,320
You're able to get on this foil,
get into your harness and push 

548
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,800
as much as you want without that
thing sort of wading underneath 

549
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,080
your board. 
Yeah, it also got a nice, nice 

550
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,080
reviews, nice feedback. 
So far people are liking it. 

551
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,200
It's not really designed to 
compete on the world Tour on the

552
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,360
on the racing scene. 
It's more for sort of like the 

553
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,480
weekend warriors that want 
something easy accessible, that 

554
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,080
like to ride fast, not really 
something you want to take in 

555
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,440
the waves because it's very 
locked and doesn't really roll 

556
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,880
around so easily. 
But yeah, though the other two 

557
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,680
latest products we released a 
couple of months ago. 

558
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,200
Yeah. 
And so he's you're saying sort 

559
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,240
of more weekend warrior kind of 
people would use the blitz. 

560
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,920
What are the the racing tool 
riders using then if that's the 

561
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,360
that's? 
So we've decided not to go onto 

562
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,520
that scene to the full on racing
scenes to be honest. 

563
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,640
Or for a brand like us that are 
trying to make literally every 

564
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,360
single foil on the market from a
dock starter all the way to a 

565
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:13,160
free race, let's call it, it is 
kind of hard to to compete with 

566
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:18,000
guys that are 100% dedicated and
not making just a race for 

567
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,720
because obviously they've got 
whole time than we do to focus 

568
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,480
on that race for. 
And racing is is brutal. 

569
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,000
You know, if you're not first, 
you're not selling anything, 

570
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,280
right? 
So it's, it's, it's a, it's a 

571
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:39,200
tricky 1 to to, to succeed in 
like this racing scene. 

572
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,280
You're either the first one or 
you're not selling anything. 

573
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,520
So yeah. 
Yeah, you have to fast 

574
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:49,960
turnarounds and you have to go 
get fully on it 100% doing it. 

575
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,000
But it is always in the back of 
our mind. 

576
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,240
Like I'm, I've done a little bit
of racing in the past, Kite, 

577
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,320
kite for racing. 
And I like, I like going fast. 

578
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,640
I like the idea of having 
something super efficient. 

579
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,000
So, you know, every now and then
I'll throw in, hey, should we do

580
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,440
this? 
And then someone will shut me 

581
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,000
down and like, Nah, there's no 
market in there. 

582
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,520
Focus on, focus on something we 
can sell, which you know, makes 

583
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,760
100% sense. 
We we would be up for it. 

584
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,480
Yeah. 
But we like, yeah, we're not 

585
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,280
saying we're never going to do a
full on dedicated race fall 

586
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,640
again. 
I think it will depend a lot on 

587
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,760
what happens with winning and 
the Olympic game, things like 

588
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,640
this. 
If there's a lot more traction, 

589
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,760
we are always skiing. 
We're always like interested to,

590
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,160
to look into it, at least give 
it a shot, you know, see. 

591
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,800
And it's definitely, if you want
to be up on the game there, 

592
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,640
it's, it's, it's it's a tough 
job. 

593
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,360
The guys out there are doing a 
really good job on the on the 

594
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,960
race files. 
You cannot just say, OK, I'm I'm

595
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,040
doing a race for it. 
And then you guys there, there's

596
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,760
a lot of knowledge in it, a lot 
of dedication. 

597
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,240
And that's, that's yeah. 
And. 

598
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:55,520
They're often priced 
accordingly. 

599
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,480
Whenever I've seen high end rice
stuff it's it's pretty, pretty 

600
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,440
expensive for the average person
too. 

601
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,760
I would say yeah. 
It's it's. 

602
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,560
It's, it's interesting you said 
that about the, the freestyle, 

603
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,440
the wave stuff, because I must 
admit, whenever I, I'm on 

604
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,160
Instagram or YouTube and I, you 
know, a lot of the time I'm 

605
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,120
seeing duo tone gear, people 
are, are jumping and flipping 

606
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,320
and doing all sorts of stuff. 
So yeah, it tends to be what I 

607
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,800
see a lot of when it comes to 
your, your brand exposure point 

608
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,880
of view. 
So it yeah, it makes sense. 

609
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,120
Yeah. 
In terms of testing and your 

610
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,040
different locations, are you, 
does Mauritius give you a full 

611
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,040
range of environments for you to
be testing or are you testing 

612
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,760
over in Europe a lot or location
wise where do you where are you 

613
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:41,560
going to test out these designs?
We so we ship our prototypes 

614
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,920
limit everywhere in our group. 
So they come to me in Mauritius,

615
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,800
they go to on Maui to the 
Spencer brothers scene and 

616
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,880
Jeffrey will help us a lot with 
board design and also they test 

617
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:59,000
pretty much every fall we build,
they go to to class and Craig in

618
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,800
Germany. 
From there they are sort of 

619
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,960
spread everywhere in Europe to 
various location with some team 

620
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,880
riders. 
If we're working on a, you know,

621
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,920
if we're working on a freestyle 
for they're going to go to the 

622
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,800
freestyle guys. 
If we're working on a wave for 

623
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,239
they're going to go to our wave 
guys, etcetera. 

624
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:18,040
So no, we're trying to get as 
much like as broad of a testing 

625
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,840
field as we can. 
I do have everything here in 

626
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:26,880
Mauritius from, you know, flat 
lagoon waves, medium waves, big 

627
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,960
waves, downwind runs, but it, 
it's sometimes almost a little 

628
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,360
bit too perfect, you know, like 
almost unrealistic. 

629
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,639
It's, it's nice having it other 
places more challenging, more 

630
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:42,440
sort of what's the word maybe 
like in cold water, Because we 

631
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,239
know that that affects a lot the
behavior of the foil, you know, 

632
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,760
when it's when it's going 
through cold water rather than 

633
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,199
hot salty water, like cold fresh
water being able to, you know, 

634
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:54,440
go test on Lake Garda and things
like this. 

635
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,080
And yeah, we're always like 
constantly debriefing and every 

636
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,560
now and then I'll be like, oh, 
this front wing works perfectly 

637
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,280
with this back wing. 
And then I'll have a completely 

638
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,120
different feedback from maybe 
Craig that that spent the 

639
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,480
weekend and on Lake Garda. 
I'll be like, no, no, no, no, I 

640
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,920
need this one and that one. 
And then we've got to rethink it

641
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,320
and say, OK, how are we going to
make it work? 

642
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,760
Or how are we going to explain 
it to the customer? 

643
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:18,880
It's, it's constantly, we're 
constantly taking all this 

644
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,520
information into account 
because, yeah, we want the force

645
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,280
to work obviously everywhere. 
Yeah, yeah. 

646
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,960
And were you involved at all 
either of you in the, you know 

647
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,720
that have just had the big 
Molokai M2O paddle board world 

648
00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:35,840
Championship and the downwinders
etcetera. 

649
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,120
So what are you involved in that
and or was there any new gear 

650
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,480
being used and or tested in 
those events? 

651
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,080
Yeah, we, we always use this 
race to test new stuff or at 

652
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,400
least we, we have been for the 
past two years. 

653
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:54,880
Having Finn and Jeffrey Spencer,
who are like some of the top, 

654
00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:00,320
top sub writers in the team. 
They obviously they are pushing 

655
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,920
us a lot to, to make new stuff 
for them because they absolutely

656
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,280
want to win these races or do as
as best as they can. 

657
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:12,520
So, yeah, we've we've had some 
some gear already last year that

658
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,880
we had built specifically for 
them and we built some new stuff

659
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,120
this year again. 
Yeah, the boys did did well. 

660
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:24,640
They were in top five, top 10 
pretty much all the races 

661
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,720
knowing how fast does that top 
10 is. 

662
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,160
I think it's a nice achievement 
for having them there. 

663
00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:36,440
And we are are, yeah, we are 
using this testing to eventually

664
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,120
come up with a production for 
later on. 

665
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,600
You know, they had, you know, 
different profiles they were 

666
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,040
using on the first race and the 
second race. 

667
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,240
And then they were able to sort 
of debrief to us. 

668
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:50,480
OK, Actually this one was kind 
of like the best overall, but 

669
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,600
allows us to move into a 
commercial direction as well. 

670
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,880
Like eventually once, once we 
debrief everything, we we're 

671
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,760
actually lots of another rider, 
Tom Tumble Bear from France. 

672
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,520
He was also in Maui this year 
and Fred Boneth also from 

673
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,960
France. 
It was interesting because Tom 

674
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:12,480
is kind of like more of an elite
rider in assembly as Finn and 

675
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,760
Jeffrey. 
But then we also have Fred was 

676
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,480
the more sort of less than 
normal customer riding, you 

677
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,360
know, like more of our glide and
stuff. 

678
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,920
So he's also doing the race but 
on completely different gear. 

679
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,360
But he's also able to done 
debrief to us about what worked,

680
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,320
what didn't. 
And yeah, we actually this, this

681
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,800
racing was, was very interesting
for us as a platform for our 

682
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,880
development. 
We, we were able to extract the 

683
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,840
word information and we had a 
lengthy debriefing with all 

684
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,720
these guys afterwards. 
And, you know, asking everything

685
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:43,520
from where's the competition 
going? 

686
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,560
What have you seen? 
What do you think we should be 

687
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,120
trying? 
I think these events are super, 

688
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,400
super interesting because 
everyone, all the other brands 

689
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:57,480
also go there with new little 
designs and you see some going 

690
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,320
in a certain direction, others 
going in other directions. 

691
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,800
So you, you do want to keep your
eyes open. 

692
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,400
You do want to sort of keep like
know what's happening, right? 

693
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,000
So, you know, it's super 
interesting. 

694
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,000
I imagine I I haven't been to 
it, I'd love to go one time, but

695
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,120
I imagine as you walk around, 
some things are kind of covered 

696
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,040
up until they're almost put in 
the water at times. 

697
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,360
With prototypes and things, 
yeah. 

698
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,720
For sure, you don't want to 
share, you don't want to share 

699
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:24,360
too much of what you're working 
on with with the competition. 

700
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,280
Yeah. 
And is there, there's different 

701
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,880
times of the year where things 
come out, I know. 

702
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,000
But is this a time where there's
anything in the pipeline that we

703
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,920
can kind of tease or mention to 
to listeners or not quite ready 

704
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,240
yet and maybe I'll need to 
circle back and chat to you 

705
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:40,120
again? 
We did. 

706
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,480
We did check on that yesterday 
with our boss. 

707
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,360
Yeah, good, good. 
Now we can, I think we can start

708
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,120
talking about an interesting 
fall. 

709
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:53,160
We are planning to launch soon 
and it's fun where we think a 

710
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,120
lot of a lot of customers are 
going to be interesting by by 

711
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,200
this because it's kind of like a
mid to high aspect ratio foil, a

712
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,920
good mix that sweet spot between
maneuverability and glide and 

713
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:10,640
pumping and something we worked 
at parallel with the foil 

714
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,600
assist. 
So we believe a lot of people 

715
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:17,480
are going to be interested in 
the foil assist, and we thought 

716
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,240
they'd probably also going to be
interested by this new front 

717
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:23,160
wing that we're bringing that 
works with the assist, but also 

718
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,240
works for winging, for surf 
foiling, for parowing. 

719
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,720
So without giving too much away 
in general, something that's 

720
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:34,960
going to fit a lot of people and
super fun, like good low and 

721
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,400
good turning, good glide and 
nice sort of middle ground. 

722
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,880
It's always a compromise. 
As if you've mentioned earlier, 

723
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,560
you know, we're always 
compromising, but we feel like 

724
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,240
this one sits nicely and we're 
not looking especially for super

725
00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:51,400
high speeds or anything, but 
just actually 90% of what the 

726
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,080
guys are doing out there like 
riding small waves, turning 

727
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,160
around, wanting that ease of use
from a lowest store speed. 

728
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,520
Things like this going to be a 
characteristics of this of this 

729
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:01,560
new front wing. 
Yeah. 

730
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,040
And will that come out similar 
sort of time to the foil assist 

731
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,720
which I think is from what I 
understand towards the end of 

732
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,320
August or will it come out some 
more probably likely I think 

733
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:12,480
tender or later? 
Yeah. 

734
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,400
We normally have our launches in
September. 

735
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,960
So I think that's when the guys 
are planning to launch the 

736
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,080
falls. 
We have like 1 launch in 

737
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,000
September and then often we've 
got one in spring around. 

738
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,040
Is it April or something? 
It's normally our two sort of 

739
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:27,800
cycles where we release the 
gear. 

740
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,920
So I think it's, yeah, I think 
it's for September, but they're 

741
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,160
planning to. 
Release, I mean, I know in terms

742
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,320
of Fuller sisters, people in in 
Perth here in Australia have 

743
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,840
already ordered the the system 
and they haven't even really 

744
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,360
seen it hasn't a thing launched 
yet. 

745
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:41,680
People have already put money 
down. 

746
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,840
So there's a lot of excited 
people about. 

747
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,560
It's got to be good for both of 
you because it'll bring even 

748
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,880
more attention to the foils, I 
imagine, because they're going 

749
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,160
to work, you know, designed for 
it, as you say, in the next 

750
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,600
generations of stuff coming. 
Through we're seeing this, this 

751
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:03,560
whole assist project as a huge 
plus for for Jordan foils in 

752
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,280
general because as you just 
mentioned it, just suddenly 

753
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,640
people are looking at our assist
and then while they're there 

754
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,760
looking at the assist, they're 
like, oh, hold on, let me also 

755
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,320
check the foils. 
So yeah, it can only be 

756
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:15,960
beneficial for the brand in 
general. 

757
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,800
Yeah, and I know you can't, 
neither of you can give too much

758
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,240
away and I am speaking to Cyril 
about the foil assist in a 

759
00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:25,120
little bit, but of either of you
tried the foil assist system? 

760
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,640
I've had a couple of couple of 
sessions on on the. 

761
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,400
You know, but I was, I was 
involved in the, in the mass 

762
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,000
development. 
Oh, right. 

763
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,000
Yeah, yeah, Great. 
I think it's yeah. 

764
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,880
It's going to be interesting 
because it's I know there was 

765
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,360
falling competition here in in 
Australia and there was just 

766
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,240
one. 
Obviously it was an early 

767
00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:48,560
version or just one that was 
being kind of toured around to 

768
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,120
the shops. 
It's part of the education 

769
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,880
process. 
And he won the person on the duo

770
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,160
tone fall assist beat everyone 
out in the waves and everyone 

771
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,720
else was on others system or 
other systems. 

772
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,120
And I haven't even been launched
yet. 

773
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,040
Need he took away the the 
competition. 

774
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,360
I can just say for the, for the,
for the parts I I've seen it, it

775
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,120
looks really good. 
Yeah, from the performance and. 

776
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,680
Also, I was also really 
impressed when I when I tried 

777
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,200
it. 
What was interesting I think was

778
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:20,520
that it's really, really easy to
get used to the whole ecosystem 

779
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,280
that they have between the, the 
remote, the special remote they 

780
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,600
have to the way the the foil 
sort of touchdowns and barely 

781
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,520
drags at all when you when you 
do have touchdowns. 

782
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,760
I think it just makes it as a 
more accessible option and also 

783
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,840
more performance oriented 
option. 

784
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,520
Yeah, exciting to see when it 
finally actually reaches the 

785
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,840
customers and hear the feedback 
because I think it's gonna be 

786
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,040
really good for the brand. 
Yeah, because you'll have all 

787
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,520
these people that come in to 
potentially come into falling 

788
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,120
for the first time at that 
beginner end because I've got 

789
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,440
this assist system that have to 
deal with a wing or something 

790
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,440
like that, you know, learn every
part of it. 

791
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,720
And then you've got the people 
that have been winging that 

792
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:02,600
haven't really gone proning much
coming across. 

793
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:05,480
And then you've got proners that
are sick of paddling or have 

794
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,920
seen other systems, but for some
reason, or rather they haven't 

795
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,320
haven't liked them and they're 
kind of looking for something 

796
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,160
different. 
So. 

797
00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:13,600
Oh yeah, Yeah, it's a good time 
to be in foiling. 

798
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,040
I keep saying that on this 
podcast. 

799
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,160
I think we're pretty fortunate 
to be in this sport at this 

800
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,480
time. 
You know, I did have a lot of 

801
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,640
the, I was in the, I was in 
windsurfing in the 80s, and I 

802
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,760
enjoyed the evolution of that 
from sales. 

803
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,320
You couldn't even see through 
with no windows or very little, 

804
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,040
and you're running into each 
other to almost completely clear

805
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:31,880
sales. 
Yeah. 

806
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,080
It's interesting watching the 
parallels of evolution and 

807
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,920
development. 
When, when, when you just when 

808
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,720
we talked before, when the time 
was when Ken was doing the the 

809
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:43,560
first falls for us here and it 
was I don't know what you 

810
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:48,000
mentioned 2019 or 18. 
Yeah, around that time, 1718. 

811
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:52,360
Just a short time and so many 
new sports and evolved out of 

812
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,360
the foiling. 
Yeah. 

813
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,960
And so Leopold, are you foiling 
as well or are you more more 

814
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,720
involved in the science of it? 
They're definitely more involved

815
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:03,200
in in the background. 
I'm I was doing this Moss 

816
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,880
sailing a few years and then 
more or less when when I went to

817
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,080
work with Stuart John I, I 
started to wing at some point 

818
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,760
and you to surf a bit before. 
So no kiting, but a bit surfing 

819
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,960
and then the winging. 
I really enjoyed it because it's

820
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:23,760
with family and everything. 
It's just you have such a yeah, 

821
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,440
limited time available and it's 
you can just jump on the water 

822
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,600
so fast and on a few forwards. 
I can also give some good 

823
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,160
comments on it. 
Not on the specific extreme 

824
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,960
voice like Jerome. 
He can more or less write 

825
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,640
everything. 
But yeah, know how to to go 

826
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,200
around to take a type jump a 
bit, a chest and a normal user 

827
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,520
would describe it. 
Yeah, yeah, normal customer I. 

828
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,240
Was going to say it would be 
hard not to catch the bug being 

829
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:50,640
surrounded by, I would have 
thought, because it is. 

830
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,520
I don't know about you guys, but
I find it pretty addictive. 

831
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:56,560
I'm always looking at wind or 
waves or whatever. 

832
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,200
And, and I suppose one of the 
issues for well, issues and good

833
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,520
things is we can, the more the 
sport evolves, the more likely 

834
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,880
we can go out in just about any 
conditions with some sort of 

835
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,080
product to get falling, which 
is, which is amazing. 

836
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,960
Thinking about your foils and 
the Duo Tone brand, ideally, 

837
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,880
what would you like people to 
think when they think about the 

838
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,200
Duo Tone foils and brand? 
You know what, what impression 

839
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,680
would you ideally like to for 
people to have about what you're

840
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,800
producing there with the foils? 
I think it's the confident of 

841
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,760
like reliability, like something
that's built like, well, you 

842
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:41,640
know, like strong. 
Yeah, a bit of the, I don't know

843
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,800
if it's a good thing or a bad 
thing to say that, but it's a 

844
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,880
little bit your your Toyota 
Hilux, you know, you know what I

845
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,160
mean? 
Like that kind of same being in 

846
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,240
Australian. 
You know, you'll know you're 

847
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,400
you're 4 by fours, right? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

848
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,000
Yeah, everyone's going I. 
Think that's kind of, well, at 

849
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:02,880
least that's what we try to 
achieve. 

850
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,440
I think as a brand, like we put 
a lot of time making sure that, 

851
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,320
you know, we've got very little 
breakage. 

852
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:14,400
If it means going a little bit 
thicker than the next guy, we 

853
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:15,920
will do it. 
We will go a little bit thicker.

854
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,680
You know, we'll be like, hey, 
it's it's worth actually having 

855
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,480
something strong that the guy we
have no issues with to start 

856
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:23,680
with. 
And then, you know, he'll be 

857
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,680
able to sell that to the next 
guys. 

858
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,640
I think that's that's something 
important for us. 

859
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:32,840
And next to that is the ease of 
use that anyone can jump on it. 

860
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:37,160
And you don't need to be like a 
professional to use the force, I

861
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:38,400
guess. 
Yeah. 

862
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,920
I don't know if you agree with 
that Leopold, but I think that's

863
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,440
a little bit what we and I mean.
Also this what what we talked 

864
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,440
about before and that everyone 
can just change the size of its 

865
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,760
foil without getting ahead about
the mass position and the foot 

866
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,120
strap position. 
It's just a a system you can 

867
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,640
rely on and that you have to 
feeling OK there. 

868
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,560
There are guys behind it who 
were thinking a lot about it and

869
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,880
testing it and just saying, OK, 
now it's a it's a really good 

870
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,800
product and we can give it on 
the market. 

871
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,160
That's kind of the feeling 
someone should have or that's 

872
00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:15,400
our goal that the customer has 
it. 

873
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,040
Yeah. 
And for example, to illustrate 

874
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,240
that maybe a little bit, you can
look at our front wing 

875
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:25,440
connection between front wing 
and fuselage, which we would 

876
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,360
call the SLS connection. 
It might not be the sexiest out 

877
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,920
there, but we have that same 
connection since 2017 hasn't 

878
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,640
changed. 
You can change take a fuselage 

879
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,080
with front wing from back then. 
Whereas other brands have gone 

880
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:44,120
through 345 generations of 
connections because yeah, we 

881
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,160
want to make something super 
sleek and then one year later 

882
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,400
they have so much breakage then 
now they have to make it 

883
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,920
something, you know, bulky. 
We we got a lot picked on back 

884
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,320
in the days. 
Why do you have 3 amid front 

885
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,520
screw to connect your front 
wing? 

886
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,200
It's not needed. 
OK, You do it with an M6 and we 

887
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,560
see how long you last with it, 
you know, and then they all make

888
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,800
the switch to their mate. 
So it's a little things like 

889
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,000
this where we were a little bit 
picked on. 

890
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,240
Oh, why is your mouse so bulky? 
You know, you can make it much 

891
00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:13,760
lighter, much thicker. 
OK, we try your foil. 

892
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,120
We find it an absolute noodle. 
We can't ride it. 

893
00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:18,800
And then eventually a couple of 
years later, oh, we're coming up

894
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,520
with high performance masks, 
which are much stiffer. 

895
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,720
Yeah, we've been doing that from
a couple of years ago. 

896
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:25,440
Sure. 
They were a little bit, maybe a 

897
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,120
little bit draggy and 
everything, but we recognize, I 

898
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,560
think we recognize very early on
these these things are super 

899
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,480
important. 
So we kind of we started and we 

900
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,960
built on that And of course 
we're trying to optimize 

901
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,800
everything and we make our masks
thinner and thinner as the years

902
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,600
go on. 
But we're always making sure we 

903
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,600
achieve that rigidity, we 
achieve that strength. 

904
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:52,640
So yeah, that's why I think that
that comparison to that the 

905
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,280
Toyota looks, you know, like 
something you can trust, right? 

906
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,280
Like it's going to work, it's 
going to take you out there, 

907
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,440
you're going to come back. 
Of course we have some stuff 

908
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,920
breaking. 
Like I'm not saying none of our 

909
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,280
gear breaks, but the percentage 
is, is tiny. 

910
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,400
You know, it's, it's still 
composite work. 

911
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,200
It's you know, something can 
happen when you lay out a mask, 

912
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,400
Something can happen when you 
lay out a front wing. 

913
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,560
But when we hear about the 
competition and how much it's 

914
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,360
breaking and we look at our 
gear, we're like, OK, we're on 

915
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,600
the right track and we should, 
we should stay on that track. 

916
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:27,160
So without wanting to sound. 
To yeah, the ease of use also 

917
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,080
what what you described before 
is so important when you compare

918
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,640
it to, to pure racing. 
When there is a racer and we 

919
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,520
tell him, OK, your gear is now a
little bit heavier, but then you

920
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,840
are faster than everyone else. 
He would pick it because he, he 

921
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,480
can just manage this more weight
or he lives with it because at 

922
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,160
the end he will win a race. 
For the customers, it's so 

923
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,480
important that the, the ease of 
use is always there and that, 

924
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:53,520
that they are just happy all 
around. 

925
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,520
And they are the compromise is 
set at at the right level 

926
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,520
everywhere. 
It's always a compromise. 

927
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,520
You, you have all the, the 
possibilities to tune it in in 

928
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,920
some direction. 
But when you cannot put this up 

929
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,240
and this will also stay up, 
sometimes it has to go down and 

930
00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:13,400
then that's always a levelling. 
And, and I think what, what's 

931
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,400
also really strong is the big 
group we have there and, and we 

932
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,640
are listening to the group. 
So we really like the field 

933
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,760
testing from them. 
We like the feedback. 

934
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,920
We not always agree with it, but
we like to hear it and to take 

935
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:28,960
it into account and think about 
it. 

936
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,600
And sometimes we have to sit 
together again as to and, and, 

937
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,000
and rethink all the feedback. 
And but that's I think makes the

938
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:41,760
whole brand quite good because 
they're quite you find in every 

939
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:43,800
aspect. 
You find someone like, like 

940
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,960
Sharon said to me before, if you
want to you, you find a whole 

941
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:49,920
environment of schools or 
dealers. 

942
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:55,400
It's, it's such a big and, and 
we can use it and that's quite a

943
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:56,400
big power. 
Yeah. 

944
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,040
Yeah, and as if I can. 
Relate to your M8M6 points 

945
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,600
there, which I actually got to 
the point where I actually 

946
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,760
bought myself a, a system to 
remove my broken M sixes in the 

947
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,040
past because they they just kept
breaking. 

948
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:12,240
Particularly when you go on 
larger foils like the, the pump 

949
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:15,480
foils and things, you jump off a
jetty and you literally just hit

950
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,440
and go bang because there's 
such, so much pressure on those,

951
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:19,800
particularly those big pump 
foils. 

952
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,440
And I, I-1 went bang and it's 
got 3 in there. 

953
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,680
And I thought I will just, 
that'll be all right, I'll get 

954
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,160
through and I jump back in 
again. 

955
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,840
And it went bang, bang to the 
front foil had the catch sinking

956
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,880
to the bottom of the ocean. 
And yeah. 

957
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,320
And then now I, you know, I've 
learnt how to remove them. 

958
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,720
So yeah, yeah. 
Hey mate. 

959
00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:38,800
So away, I think from my 
experience. 

960
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,920
I want to finish now with just a
few quick fire questions. 

961
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,840
Now, how we do this with two of 
you, I don't know, but maybe, 

962
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,440
you know, allow the time to jump
in, Leopold. 

963
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:52,440
Some things will apply, some 
things might not, but let's just

964
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,120
let's just work our way through 
together. 

965
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:58,320
So for each of you, describe a 
falling in a couple of words for

966
00:51:58,320 --> 00:51:59,880
you. 
I would say silence. 

967
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:02,880
For me, it's magic. 
Yeah, yeah, OK. 

968
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,040
What's what's the most rewarding
thing about falling for each of 

969
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,800
you for? 
Me, it would be, I think I 

970
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,560
really enjoy it or I'm still 
enjoying the learning curve. 

971
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,680
That was either it was a Moss 
and sailing. 

972
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,360
It's also foiling or then 
jumping on the wing foil. 

973
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,520
It's it's always this curve that
you can. 

974
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,240
That's what why we are doing 
sports, because we want to get 

975
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:27,120
better and better and that's 
this, this foiling, this new 

976
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,960
dimension that's just giving you
so much possibility to learn. 

977
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,600
Yeah, same. 
And because we've got all these 

978
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,960
different disciplines from dock 
starting where you want to, you 

979
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,000
know, be able to pump for a 
minute, then for 5 minutes, then

980
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,680
for 10 minutes to the surf foil 
where you, you want to be able 

981
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,960
to link your first waves or, you
know, do more and more radical 

982
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,640
turns to kite falling where you 
want to beat your speed record. 

983
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,520
I mean, there's so many things 
that you can target, right? 

984
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,600
And that's super fun because 
every time you get on the water 

985
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,640
and no matter what you're doing,
there is something that you can 

986
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,720
sort of try to achieve, OK, I'm 
going to beat my speed record 

987
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:03,920
today. 
OK, I'm going to whatever it is.

988
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,480
And that just keeps it super fun
or, or whether you just want to 

989
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,920
relax. 
I mean, how how relaxing is 

990
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,160
falling in general, right? 
Like anything, you just get on 

991
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,040
the water and just it seems to 
relax you. 

992
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,280
Yeah, you can have a terrible 
day, you know, and then go out 

993
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,120
foiling at the end of it and it 
just completely changes your 

994
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,720
outlook on on life. 
And it's so healthy mentally. 

995
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:27,880
I think I mean physically one 
thing because we're all doing 

996
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,520
stuff, but mentally it's just 
such a good sport. 

997
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,960
The next question I've got, I 
might change a little bit. 

998
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,680
I normally ask what's the best 
advice you've ever received 

999
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,320
about foiling, but I'm going to 
ask you what's the best advice 

1000
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,640
you've ever received about foil 
designing? 

1001
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,360
I would say I think that you 
should try to achieve a design 

1002
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,720
where the minute you step on it 
just feels right. 

1003
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,840
Like that should be your first 
initial, not. 

1004
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:56,080
Maybe I'll need 3 or 4 session 
to get the hang of that foil. 

1005
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:57,800
Maybe it works a little bit 
differently. 

1006
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,720
I think if you've got a good 
design, you jump on it and the 

1007
00:54:01,720 --> 00:54:04,640
first thing that comes to mind 
is I feels like I've been 

1008
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:06,160
writing it for the past two 
years. 

1009
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,880
So that's really something that 
I tried to achieve when I'm, 

1010
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:13,760
when I'm designing like that 
ease of use, I think it's super 

1011
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,320
important. 
I would say probably back in the

1012
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:17,960
days from from the Michael's 
Cup. 

1013
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,840
Just just keep researching. 
Just never stop, just keep it 

1014
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:24,920
turning. 
I mean, in this world now with a

1015
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,560
commercial product, sometime we 
have to stop and say, OK, now 

1016
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,280
this is it. 
But it's always, there's always 

1017
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,960
option to improve room to 
improve everywhere. 

1018
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:38,760
Yeah, Yeah. 
My next question, we've all had 

1019
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:40,480
some pretty bad crash moments of
you. 

1020
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,520
What would you call your worst 
crash moments, Jerome? 

1021
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,840
You possibly been in some pretty
massive waves. 

1022
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,080
Do you go out in the waves 
fairly often and and have you 

1023
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,040
had some moments out there or 
worst moments hitting reef or 

1024
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:53,040
something? 
Yeah, I was. 

1025
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,000
Reflecting on that the other 
day, like I spend so much time 

1026
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:01,000
around these sharp foils and 
touch wood, I somehow I've 

1027
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,560
managed to never cut myself or 
never hurt myself badly, which 

1028
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:10,240
is pretty amazing if you think 
about it because the probability

1029
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:12,280
of of getting hurt is is pretty 
high. 

1030
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:17,320
I think. 
I guess I got into falling late 

1031
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,680
enough that I was a little bit 
wiser. 

1032
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:24,160
When I think back, I think back 
about my kite surfing freestyle 

1033
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,080
years when I was 1617, eighteen 
years old. 

1034
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:32,840
Well, which is like crash and 
crash and I've done my knees and

1035
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,840
I've broken teeth. 
And because you're just younger 

1036
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:39,400
and you go harder, right. 
I think by the time I got to 

1037
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,880
fighting, I'm not too interested
to to take too many risks, to be

1038
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,920
honest, as I do go into ways. 
But I don't try to do like crazy

1039
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,640
stuff. 
Yeah, I haven't had two, maybe 

1040
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,880
some big wipeouts like kite 
falling at high speed where you 

1041
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:57,080
do your neck a little bit from 
that whiplash from from hitting 

1042
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,440
the water. 
That's probably probably the 

1043
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,880
worst ones, but nothing too 
crazy like a couple of days with

1044
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,360
a swan neck. 
Yeah, unless I'm forgetting 

1045
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:08,160
something and which means that 
my my brain is getting affected 

1046
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,360
from the crashes. 
I were talking about that. 

1047
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,040
I once I used to wakeboard a 
fair bit and I came around the 

1048
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:18,000
corner once trying to be clever 
and, and I was going backwards 

1049
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,640
and I caught the back edge and I
was wearing a gaffe helmet and I

1050
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,640
fell back and the gaffe helmet 
exploded when it hit the water. 

1051
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,720
It obviously saved me and I kind
of didn't know where I was and 

1052
00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:30,320
when I kind of came out in the 
water surface, there's all these

1053
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,520
little bits of gaffe helmet 
floating around. 

1054
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:36,040
That's great. 
Luckily I was OK, but the noise 

1055
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,240
I always scare the hell out of 
people in the boat. 

1056
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:40,960
But I think that that probably 
did save me. 

1057
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,320
I. 
I always think that the it's 

1058
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,840
really interesting this or the 
the feeling of this when you go 

1059
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,160
really fast, like with a blitz 
or something and you hit 

1060
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,400
something and you know, I'm not 
really noticing that you hit 

1061
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,440
something because of board is 
just going down and you're and 

1062
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:00,520
it's just this short moment 
where you try to, but the next 

1063
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,960
moment you remember you're 
already lying in the water and 

1064
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,960
this is just so fast this. 
And my last, my last question 

1065
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:10,320
for you is what's the next big 
foiling adventure or challenge 

1066
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,880
for you in your, and you can 
talk about in terms of your full

1067
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,600
designing career if you like, 
but even just, you know, getting

1068
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,320
out there and, and traveling 
and, and testing some of these 

1069
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,440
foils, what's the next big thing
for you? 

1070
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,680
Yeah, that would be a good thing
travelling. 

1071
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,800
I never was a Mauritius. 
I think that's something for me 

1072
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:31,760
going to to join Jerome on his 
and one of his face on the water

1073
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,320
and Mauritius. 
Yeah, yeah, I, I think that 

1074
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:35,720
sounds good. 
I'd love to come over and do it 

1075
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,000
too, particularly seeing as the 
waves of two KS out. 

1076
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,240
I probably want a couple of 
people out there with me, I 

1077
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,560
reckon. 
I don't know if I go out there, 

1078
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,040
I like, I go out there, but I'm 
not going in the wave. 

1079
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:48,760
Yeah, I might just go and have a
look at them myself, too. 

1080
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:50,680
Yeah. 
What about you, Jerome? 

1081
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,040
What's your next big adventure? 
I. 

1082
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:56,960
Don't know this year I've been 
taking part in quite a few of 

1083
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:58,600
the dealer meetings for Dio 
turn. 

1084
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:03,040
I really enjoy that. 
I really enjoy like sharing more

1085
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,280
information with the dealers, 
like spending is something that 

1086
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:09,400
they might not have understood 
being able to actually go on the

1087
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:13,600
water with them and explaining, 
OK, try these, try that, feel 

1088
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:15,000
it. 
I really enjoy that. 

1089
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,840
So hopefully there's a few more 
of those in the future. 

1090
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,800
And of course, it's always 
interesting to travel to new 

1091
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,200
destination. 
I mean, we to be honest, we have

1092
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,120
really, really nice conditions 
back home. 

1093
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,560
Like I feel like we don't really
need to go anywhere because we 

1094
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:31,480
we have waves, we have 
everything. 

1095
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:35,800
But it's always nice to discover
new countries and different, 

1096
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,440
different spots. 
So yeah, looking forward to a 

1097
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:41,800
few more trips with the with the
duo tone gown. 

1098
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,560
Sounds good. 
Thanks both of you for your time

1099
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,000
today. 
And talking about the duo tone 

1100
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,720
foils, that's that's awesome. 
I'm sure people enjoyed our chat

1101
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,880
so cheers. 
Thanks a lot for giving us this 

1102
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,880
this platform and allowing a 
little bit more awareness around

1103
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:57,880
the around the brand. 
Thanks a lot for that. 

1104
00:58:58,080 --> 00:58:58,960
Thanks, Leopold. 
Yeah. 

1105
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:00,280
Yeah. 
Thanks a lot.