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I'm Pete Warmsley and welcome 
back to the Foilers Podcast, a 

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show where we dive deep into the
world of foiling with the 

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legends, innovators and 
passionate individuals pushing 

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the boundaries of this 
incredible sport and driving it 

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forward. 
This podcast is an extension of 

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the Foilers website, so take 
some time to check it out when 

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you get a moment. 
Oh, and don't forget to 

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subscribe to this podcast so you
can get the latest content when 

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it goes live. 
In today's episode, we talked to

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Dylan Henry. 
Dylan is a passionate Waterman 

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who distributes Columba 
performance gear in Australia 

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and is the founder of Flo 
Foiling, a dedicated falling 

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school. 
He's also an accomplished 

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athlete, participating in high 
profile stand up paddle boarding

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and downwind falling events. 
I caught up with Dylan following

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the Koakai Triple Crown in 
Hawaii. 

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We explored his background and 
falling philosophy, and we also 

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took a closer look at the Kalama
Performance product range. 

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Enjoy. 
Welcome to the Fallers podcast 

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Dylan, Great to have you on. 
Thanks for having me mate. 

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I want to start with, I'm 
talking about the event in 

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Hawaii. 
I understand you're over there 

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at the how do they say it KOA 
Kai, Triple Crown KOA. 

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Kai Triple Crown. 
Now what's what's the vibe like 

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over there? 
Have you done the event before? 

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Is this your first time or many 
times? 

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So the Koakai Triple Crown is, 
well, this year there was 4 

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races in it. 
There was the one on Oahu, the 

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Voyager race I believe it was 
called in the paddle of MUA, 

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which is here at the Maui goes 
from the Moliko Gulch to Kanaha,

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which is about, I'm going to say
it's about a 12 kilometre race. 

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And then there's M to M, which 
is Maui to Molokai. 

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And then there's M2O which is 
Molokai to Oahu, which just 

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happened on Sunday. 
I believe that the Koakai Triple

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Crown is a accumulation of your 
speeds and whoever had the 

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minimal amount of speed over the
three races or three of the four

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races gets crowned the Koakai 
Triple Crown winner for 2025. 

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Believe I'll spoke. 
I was speaking to Gabby this 

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morning when we went down 
winding. 

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They haven't announced it yet, 
so they're probably tallying it 

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all up and maybe trying to work 
out how they're going to work 

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with the Koakai Triple Crown on 
a Quad Crown event, I guess. 

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Are you there to go in the 
competition and support the 

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Kalama riders or just just enjoy
the time there and check out the

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vibe? 
I've been coming to Maui now. 

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I think this is my trip in three
or four years to Maui. 

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And yeah, I, I, I did the Triple
Crown events last year, paddle 

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and MUA M2MMM2O, which was a 
fantastic experience. 

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M2O is one of the things I've 
been wanting to do since I found

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out it was even a thing back in 
maybe 2011 or 2010 when I was 

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riding stand up. 
And last year I got to do it. 

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And this year I kind of said I 
don't think I need to do it 

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again, but I decided to do M to 
M as my third one. 

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And yeah, the goal for M to M 
this year was to do better than 

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last year and I did better than 
last year by about 8 minutes. 

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And the goal was to do it in 
under, under two hours. 

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And I did it in one hour, 59 and
11 seconds. 

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They do say what the problem 
with setting a goal is. 

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You sometimes sometimes achieve 
it. 

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So you know, like if you don't 
set it hard, hard enough that 

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you achieve it, but you might be
under what you wanted to get. 

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But it sounds like you hit 
exactly what you wanted in this 

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guy, so. 
Yeah, my, my couple of goals 

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were under 2 hours. 
Have fun and don't fall off. 

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And I didn't fall off. 
I did under the two hours and I 

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had a ball. 
I was riding with some of my 

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mates from Kauai that I was 
riding with the day before. 

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And we said wouldn't it be cool 
if we could just ride together 

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for the race? 
And there's a good sort of eight

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kilometers of just crossing over
round houses with each other. 

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And then I've decided this is 
getting a bit a bit hectic. 

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You know, we could have almost 
hit each other with our paddles,

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that's how close we were 
getting. 

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And I thought we're in a race 
situation. 

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If I fall off, it's just going 
to ruin my day. 

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So I'm out of here. 
See you. 

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So yeah, just foiled somewhere 
else and still in the middle of 

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nowhere. 
But yeah, it's good. 

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And what gear were you riding? 
Did you bring anything special 

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from the Kalama Performance 
lineup? 

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Yeah. 
So we've just released the 

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Gator. 
They arrived in Australia 

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probably two months ago and they
landed here in Maui six weeks 

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ago or something like that. 
And I used the production, what 

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we call the LP, which is long 
performance. 

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They're the darker blue ones 
that most people ride who 

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downwind 88 by 18 and a half, 
105 litres. 

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So I sort of went wider this 
year, went up in volume this 

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year, a little bit less length, 
but not by much. 

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And the thing's amazing. 
Like it's, yeah, it speaks for 

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itself. 
Like you kind of got to ride one

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to believe it and it in my 
opinion, it's probably 20% 

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better than the V2 Barracuda 
which we had last year. 

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Yeah, there's, without going 
into too much detail, there's a 

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couple of guys that were riding 
other boards that are quite 

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popular at the moment who tried 
the Gator and they've bought 

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them. 
Like I've been drop driving 

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boards down, dropping them off 
to people for Dave and even I 

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had a text from someone saying, 
Oh, Gee, I really wish that I 

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did take the Gator because I 
couldn't stand on my board in 

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M2O. 
So so now he's he's ordered this

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Gator and it's it's getting 
shipped this week. 

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So that's pretty cool. 
That's cool. 

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And I I was talking to Cynthia 
Sinbad Brown and she he was 

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raving about her clamour board. 
Yeah, she, she's an amazing, 

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amazing woman. 
Amazing water woman. 

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He's always been like, she's 
always out there. 

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Yeah, she's a she goes hard. 
That's cool. 

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Yeah, yeah, I like her In in my 
chat tour, I like her. 

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I asked her, you know, at 62, 
she she was on the podium for 

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three events last year there. 
I asked her what's the secret 

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keeping fit and she said 
Twinkies and tequila. 

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I did. 
I did see your your snippet. 

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I don't know what Twinkies are. 
I think they're very sweet, very

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sweet kind of cakes in America, 
I think. 

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Yeah. 
Pretty, pretty high in sugar, 

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yeah. 
Beer and tequila, I think the 

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thing was. 
Yeah, was. 

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That correctly beer into. 
Something like that, Something 

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good health advice. 
She's obviously got some great 

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genetics, yeah. 100% on the 
Hawaiian. 

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Yeah, this is right. 
And I think she's out there a 

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lot. 
Yeah, fitness does play a role 

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in all of this, I'm sure. 
I just want to take a moment to 

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let you know that this episode 
is brought to you by Air Pumps 

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Australia. 
A couple of years ago I 

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introduced the Air Bank Puffer 
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fantastic way to get my falling 
gear pumped up efficiently so I 

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can get out in the water faster 
and I no longer have to carry 

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around one of those annoyingly 
bulky hand pumps. 

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been fantastic and so I've 

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Australia. 
All proceeds to keeping the 

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00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,560
Foilers podcast going. 
Now back to the episode. 

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Dylan, what's what's your 
background and how did you how 

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did you get into foiling? 
Where did it all kind of start 

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for you? 
Oh, to be honest, a while ago. 

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Yeah. 
So I was in stand up paddle like

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the whole industry for well, how
depends how far back you want to

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go. 
Like so I finished school year 

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12 in 2011 and I was at a 
construction. 

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I'll do this a bit quickly. 
And then Fast forward to the 

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foiling part. 
So I was on work experience as 

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construction. 
And I remember the guy saying, 

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what do you want to do when you 
finish school? 

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And I was like, I want to have a
stand up paddle board school. 

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And he's like, oh, you'll never 
make anything of that. 

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That's bullshit, blah, blah, 
blah, all this stuff. 

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And I was like kind of pretty 
deflated hearing that. 

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And then interestingly enough, 
that afternoon, Richard Finlay 

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Jones, Newcastle local, he was 
the importer with Simon Dodd for

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C4 Waterman, which was a 
Hawaiian company for stand up 

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paddle, like one of the 
innovators of stand up paddle, 

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like with Nation, all that sort 
of stuff. 

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He ring me, rang me and said, 
what do you want to do when you 

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finish school? 
And I want to have a paddle 

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board school and show me sweet, 
let's do it because I was like 

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kind of working with him at the 
time. 

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So I got into stand up paddle 
industry selling boards, 

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teaching how to paddle board 
school straight out of high 

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school. 
Like I missed like the the year 

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12 clap out because I was doing 
my instructors course and kind 

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of got into stand up paddle. 
Was with C4 for a couple of 

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years and then I went to a 
company called ECS, which is out

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of the Central Coast. 
NSW worked as their global brand

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manager and team manager for, 
I'm going to say 7 years. 

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So I used to go over to America,
I used to live in Florida back 

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and forth through summer to 
summer. 

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So I gained a lot of life 
experience, a lot of travel 

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experience, a lot of people 
interaction, sales, all that 

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sort of stuff. 
I drove around the country in a,

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in a compared to the Hood River 
in 2018, but that's where I got 

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into. 
I'm going to say I tried foiling

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2017 in Newcastle. 
Richard had one and he said hey 

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have a go of this and I paddled 
on the wave got ejected to the 

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stars and was like what is this?
And then got a wave and breached

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A nosedive and I was going, 
well, I didn't didn't understand

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the concept of it. 
But to me it was like, OK, this 

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sport can go one of two ways. 
It can go too hard, too 

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expensive, too dangerous. 
And to me that's negative, 

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negative, negative. 
That's just a close minded view 

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on things. 
And to me it was, this is 

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intriguing. 
I want to learn how to do it. 

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If they can do it, I'm sure I 
can learn how to do it as well. 

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So then didn't touch it because 
I didn't really know what how to

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how to access stuff in 2017. 
Then when I was in Florida 2018,

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I was at an event at Saint Pete,
which is on the West Coast of 

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Florida, that paddle race and 
the Gofoil crew and Dave Kalama,

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they were all there and they had
a boat and they were towing. 

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And I went give me a go of this.
Like I need to have a go. 

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And my God, it was the easiest 
thing. 

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Like the easiest way to learn 
was behind the boat and it just 

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boom rang Dad and I was like on 
marketplace or Gumtree or 

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something like that. 
I bought a jet ski. 

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Dad went and picked it up for me
As soon as I flew back to 

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Australia. 
We were on like pretty much 

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homemade foils, like gluing them
to the board and like bits of 

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chopping board bolted through 
old boards to make it happen and

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like just cooking out deluxe. 
But dad and I go to the lake and

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get into foiling. 
That's how we got into foiling. 

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And then ECS made a couple of 
foils. 

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They were pretty good. 
And then I got the opportunity 

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to become the importer for Go 
Foil for Australia and I did 

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that for 4 1/2 years and also 
the importer for Kalama 

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Performance in Australia. 
We're into our fourth year now. 

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So yeah. 
And I'm, I'm no longer with Go 

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Foil. 
I'm I ride for Lyft foils 

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Australia. 
So yeah, sort of there was a, 

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there was a really good peak 
with it all. 

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And then all good things can 
come to an end and we move on 

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and do different things. 
And that's what I did. 

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So still with Kalama but I ride 
for Lyft instead of Go Foil. 

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00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,840
Yeah, right. 
And what attracted you to Kalama

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particularly? 
Well, I've met Laird before. 

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I've, you know, had lunch with 
Laird, and I know that Dave and 

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00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,960
Laird strap crew basically 
invented foiling back in the 

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day, drawers, all that stuff. 
Legend Waterman rode for Go Foil

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as well. 
So I'd met him on my first trip 

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over here in 2019, just before 
Covad, like a week before Covad 

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00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,320
started. 
My, if my memory is correct, I 

223
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,320
believe I got asked to be the 
importer for the boards by Dave 

224
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,440
once. 
And I kind of said no because to

225
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,560
be honest, it was fear. 
I was like, how the hell am I 

226
00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:53,880
going to import containers of 
boards? 

227
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,920
Like I couldn't even, I just, I 
don't know, I just couldn't see 

228
00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,440
myself doing it. 
And then I believe he asked me 

229
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,000
again and I kind of went hang on
a second. 

230
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,440
And I spoke to my dad about it. 
He's like, it's not an 

231
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,600
opportunity most people would 
get twice. 

232
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,280
You better take it and we'll and
you get you'll just figure it 

233
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,280
out like you've figured 
everything else out in your life

234
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,600
so fast. 
I did it and we ordered a first 

235
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,840
lot of boards one between 2:00. 
Just a small order, just what I 

236
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,840
could afford basically to buy 
outright and bring it in and 

237
00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,640
learn the whole. 
I was importing all the go four 

238
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,880
gear, but that's all air freight
or, or whatnot containers or LCL

239
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,800
loads. 
And I have a really good freight

240
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,840
forwarder in Newcastle, Drew 
Foster D to D logistics. 

241
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:38,920
Like he's all over it. 
Basically. 

242
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,600
I explain to me what I'm doing. 
He's like, he's like a legend. 

243
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,480
I I just want to do this just to
get his boards in the country 

244
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,360
because he's an idol of mine, 
you know, And then how it sort 

245
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:56,440
of took off was the E3 range 
Dave made in a 65 by 23 1/2, 

246
00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,520
which is huge. 
Now that's a like, that's a 

247
00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,360
that's obsolete Dawn sort of 
thing. 

248
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,680
Foil drivers love it. 
And a guy named Mick Branch 

249
00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:11,600
who's Cronulla guy, my #1 
Australian team writer, 

250
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,560
basically mentor, absolute 
legend of a bloke. 

251
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,960
He said to me, he goes, you got 
to get these boards in like, 

252
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,800
like I'm telling you, I'm like, 
to be honest, everything Mick 

253
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,400
said so far is correct. 
Like you just, it's like 

254
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:23,480
predicts it. 
It's crazy. 

255
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:25,280
He's like, you've got to get 
these boards and you've got to 

256
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,120
get these boards in Like I'm 
telling you like I'm like, I'm 

257
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,040
like really. 
I can't really see it being a 

258
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,040
thing like short sort of wires 
the way to go. 

259
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,160
And that's where we're at. 
And I got six of them in and 

260
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,680
nothing really happened. 
And then I did a flat water 

261
00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:41,120
paddle up, my first ever flat 
water paddle up video on it, put

262
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,480
it on Instagram overnight. 
All of them sold out. 

263
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:46,760
And then that was like in the 
midst of COVID. 

264
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,280
So I had heaps of orders, like I
don't want to, I'm not going to 

265
00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,280
name names because they're all 
sponsored by other brands and 

266
00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,760
stuff now, but some pretty 
influential people in the 

267
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,320
Australian foil industry were 
ordering 3. 

268
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,760
And like, I sold out. 
It was ridiculous. 

269
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,720
Like I couldn't believe that 
amount of people. 

270
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,840
And then I think that's what 
really kicked off downwinding. 

271
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,840
And that was like the the era of
where Dave went into the 

272
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,240
Barracuda V1 Barracuda, which as
everyone knows, and you know, 

273
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,960
you'd be silly not to admit it, 
that it flipped the industry on 

274
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,800
its head overnight when the V1 
Barracuda came out. 

275
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,440
And it just pretty much got the 
downwind foil industry to where 

276
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,760
it is today, in my honest 
opinion, yeah. 

277
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,840
I want to go go through the the 
range in in a minute. 

278
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,000
But broadly, what do you think 
makes the clamber boards 

279
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,280
different from from other from 
the other gear in the in the 

280
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,880
market at the moment? 
Yeah, look, it's experience. 

281
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,920
It's, you know, you've got. 
And no, no disrespect to 

282
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:49,320
backyard shapers or anyone like 
that, but you cannot argue the 

283
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:54,600
fact that Dave is one of the 
most experienced Waterman in the

284
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,480
world period. 
In not just he didn't just 

285
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,200
pioneer stand up paddling, but 
windsurfing. 

286
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,960
He basically invented with lead 
big wave toe in surfing jaws 

287
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,920
foiling like, you know, he was 
foiling 2030 years ago on a what

288
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,600
they call this air chair with 
snowboard boots. 

289
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:19,040
Like there is no one else in the
industry who has the experience 

290
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,200
that he does. 
And the difference is he still 

291
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,720
tests the boards. 
He makes it. 

292
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,840
I'm sitting here at his house in
Maui, like just 20 meters. 

293
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,680
That way is where he shapes the 
boards initially before we go to

294
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,920
production and then goes down to
maliko and tests them multiple 

295
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,640
times, makes multiple changes 
and incremental changes to 

296
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,800
perfect a product. 
Whereas a lot of other shapers 

297
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,200
have team riders, which Dave has
team riders too, that we also 

298
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,440
have our input in dimensions and
feedback. 

299
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,560
But a lot of these guys are just
shapers. 

300
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,840
They don't actually downwind 
themselves, especially not to 

301
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,120
the level that Dave does. 
So I, I do believe that that is 

302
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,680
what gives us that leap ahead 
because I, I think as a shaper, 

303
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:06,200
it might be hard to, maybe I'm 
not a shaper, so I don't know, 

304
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,240
but I'm sort of can interpret 
feedback, but how you interpret 

305
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,440
that feedback to execute it. 
Whereas Dave can have the idea, 

306
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:19,840
make the idea, test the idea, 
change it, test it and go around

307
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,160
until he goes, okay, I think 
I've come up with it. 

308
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,480
All right, Dylan, Tomo, Shep, 
Gabby, you guys go and ride 

309
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,600
these in different conditions. 
Give me your feedback. 

310
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,920
And usually when you give your 
feedback, he's like, that's like

311
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:34,920
a checklist. 
I notice this, I notice this, I 

312
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:36,720
notice this, and he's like, Yep,
I notice that too. 

313
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,160
So it sort of confirms the 
findings, if that makes sense. 

314
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,280
Yeah, yeah. 
What about let's let for those 

315
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,960
that aren't familiar with the 
with the range that you've got 

316
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,160
with Kalama, let's go through 
some of the the products that 

317
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,400
you've got there and what 
they're for and some of their 

318
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,040
features if. 
Yes, just in the current Gator 

319
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,640
range. 
Yeah, just in the. 

320
00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,920
Yeah. 
In the current Gator range and 

321
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,120
if there's any other products 
you kind of mentioned that that 

322
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,560
people should be aware of, Yeah.
Yeah, I'll start with the V1 

323
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,839
Barracker. 
There was 3 sizes that 8 by 2100

324
00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:12,839
and 12 leader it was 111.69 or 
whatever. 

325
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:17,040
That was the most sold board 
worldwide. 

326
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,520
Like it was ridiculous. 
Like America sold out and I had 

327
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,880
guys paying 2 1/2 grand in 
freight to get them to Florida 

328
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,280
because they wanted one that 
badly. 

329
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:29,240
And then as the foils 
progressed, more high aspect, 

330
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,520
they need the boxes further 
forward, more brands coming in, 

331
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:37,080
all that sort of stuff. 
The V2 was another huge leap. 

332
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,360
We went from three sizes to 16 
sizes in V2. 

333
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,480
The V2 is still a fantastic 
board. 

334
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,040
All the boards are fantastic. 
I've still got all mine and I 

335
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,240
still ride them. 
But then the Gator was just like

336
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,000
hands down, so much better than 
anything before it. 

337
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,760
And the range in the Gator, it's
pretty significant still. 

338
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:03,280
I think there's maybe 13 sizes. 
I think around that in Australia

339
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,760
we don't do all 13. 
We do around six of those sizes.

340
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,800
And the reason we do do the six 
sizes is our market in Australia

341
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:15,240
is different to the market here 
in terms of the level of Foiler.

342
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:21,200
Also to I, the range that I 
bring in is more suited to an 

343
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:26,720
intermediate, like beginner to 
intermediate downwind guy that 

344
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:34,280
isn't not necessarily capable of
writing a 95 litre, 16 inch wide

345
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,120
board. 
Because most people in Australia

346
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:40,560
who are writing those sort of 
boards are usually sponsored or 

347
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,080
have some form of affiliation 
with a brand that's going to 

348
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,040
have those boards. 
There's a couple of crew that I 

349
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:51,000
bring boards in with them in 
mind who have an 86 by 1795 

350
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,640
litres and they bought them, 
they're stoked. 

351
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,200
But to go through the range for 
Australia, we have like 

352
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,800
category, there's CP, which is 
the orange ones. 

353
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,080
That's compact performance. 
I only do one size in that, 

354
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:13,920
which is 75 or 76. 
Now you're testing me by 26 at 

355
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,240
115 liters. 
Usually I know them all off my 

356
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,120
heart, but I've yeah, slacked 
off a bit. 

357
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,760
That's basically for your 4 
wheel drive guys. 

358
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,080
More winging or learning to wing
para wing. 

359
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:31,160
My dad's got one, he's 66 years 
old with a foil drive and he had

360
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:36,440
the V2 VP, which was like the 
board before it and he went from

361
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,080
that to the Gator and he said I 
got off the water straight away,

362
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:41,560
like it was that much 
difference. 

363
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:46,080
So there's those ones and then 
there's AP, which is all 

364
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,480
performance. 
So all performance is not 

365
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,600
necessarily looking to do 
extreme downwind stuff like we 

366
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,800
do here. 
You don't necessarily want to 

367
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,520
ride such a long skinny board. 
So there's, God, I wish I knew 

368
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,080
the sizes off the heart like I 
used to know every every other 

369
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,200
size. 
There's. 

370
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,720
I'm pretty sure it's ADO. 4 
around there somewhere. 

371
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,640
Oh God, this is horrible. 
Anyway, there's an 8. 

372
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,800
I think there's an 8 O there's 
an 8 four, and then there's an 

373
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,280
87, which is 87 by 24 at 130 
liters. 

374
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,360
Now that is the board that if 
you are concerned that you can't

375
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:22,600
balance or you can't stand up or
you're not going to get going or

376
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,920
you're going to be falling in 
trying to learn your downwind 

377
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,440
journey, that is the board for 
you. 

378
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,800
Or if you're just a big dude 
that wants the most of stability

379
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,880
with the most performance, 
that's your board done. 

380
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,880
And then there's LP, which I 
ride what you know, Kai 

381
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:42,400
Thompson, who just came third in
the Molokai on in in Gabby. 

382
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,280
She just came second in the 
Molokai, first in M2M, right in 

383
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:54,000
the Gator. 
That's 86 by 18 or 17 at A at 95

384
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,160
liters. 
Then there's 88 by 18 1/2 at 105

385
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:00,360
liters. 
That's what I write. 

386
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:01,640
Fantastic. 
I love the thing. 

387
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,360
And then there's 810 by 19115 
liters. 

388
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,120
And that those three boards are 
the most popular for the current

389
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:14,520
market that we're selling to. 
But then I have noticed there's 

390
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,040
a lot of guys jumping on those 
APS as well that are just a 

391
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,520
little bit shorter, a little bit
wider, a little bit more easy, 

392
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:24,160
but you're just easier to use 
but don't perform at the same 

393
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,640
level that an LP will, if that 
makes sense. 

394
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,240
Yeah. 
Does that make sense to? 

395
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,520
Yeah, yeah. 
So the LP's, the LP's are 

396
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,480
obviously a little bit longer 
generally except for that 8/6 

397
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,960
and and a bit narrower, so a 
little bit harder to use, but 

398
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,880
they, they obviously will they 
go a bit quicker or what's the 

399
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,040
difference in the field between 
an LP and an AP for you? 

400
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:48,400
Yeah. 
So a board that's narrower is 

401
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,600
going to travel through the 
water faster. 

402
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:52,600
That is compromised with 
stability. 

403
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:57,440
But the Gator's stability is far
more stable than the V2 and 

404
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,120
that's because of the tail. 
It's sort of got like, it's 

405
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:03,320
almost like it's got a, an 
extended theme that tracks and 

406
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,680
keeps you going straight 
straighter for longer. 

407
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,960
Just the overall design, the 
center points being moved 

408
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,840
forward. 
There's more volume in the nose 

409
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,080
area. 
The nose doesn't pull in as much

410
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,160
anymore. 
It's more rounded so that, yeah,

411
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,360
the LP is in essence longer, 
skinnier, faster. 

412
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,040
The compromise is it may be 
harder to use the AP. 

413
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,880
All performance is usually 
narrower, wider, more stable, 

414
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,920
easier to use, but it's not 
going to get through the water 

415
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,360
as quick as an LP. 
Somewhere with foiling is always

416
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:37,600
a compromise and you just got to
pick your battle and which 

417
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:38,800
compromise that you want to 
take. 

418
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,440
And my professional opinion is 
if you're at a level where you 

419
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,640
can do downwinding and you can 
balance, know your volumes and 

420
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,680
then LP might be for you. 
But if you're more of an all 

421
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,400
round foiler, it's the AP, but 
it's still going to do 

422
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,200
everything. 
And then CP is like, not even 

423
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,120
interested in downwinding in the
ocean, but you might do lake 

424
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:03,440
runs, Bay runs, foil Dr. para 
wing winding, whatever you want 

425
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,320
to do, you know? 
Of the one board that does 

426
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,760
everything when you're not 
focusing just on downwind, then 

427
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,280
for the CP. 
That's correct, yeah. 

428
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,680
Yeah, yeah. 
And so for someone just starting

429
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,440
the power wing, it sounds like 
the Gator AP, potentially the 87

430
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,840
by 24130 liter is probably a 
good choice if they're not so 

431
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,240
confident, yeah. 
If you're not so confident, 

432
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,360
yeah. 
And if you're a heavier writer, 

433
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,600
that thing is like, we had it in
the V2 in the same dimensions, 

434
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,160
and I sold all of them before 
they even got to Australia. 

435
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,600
Wow. 
So yeah, it was pretty cool. 

436
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,720
Great. 
Yeah, that's that's a good 

437
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,200
product to have when there's 
demand like that for it. 

438
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,200
So yeah, that's awesome. 
And the more advanced riders on 

439
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,920
the LP's and depending on weight
and things are going down in 

440
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,040
size volume wise as as what 
people are comfortable with, I 

441
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:49,800
suppose. 
Yeah. 

442
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,200
Yeah, it comes down to what 
volume you want to ride. 

443
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,680
I sort of say to people, So I 
was on a 98 and 102 leaders on 

444
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,000
the on the V2. 
I had two boards, one was 98, 

445
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,960
one was 102. 
And I went up in volume just 

446
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,680
because the tail is so narrow 
and it doesn't really have that 

447
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,560
much volume in it. 
I'd say it's sort of if you were

448
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,560
100 leaders before, I would 
suggest going up in volume 

449
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,960
because look at the end of the 
day, let's be honest, this board

450
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,640
is hard down. 
Winning is significantly harder 

451
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,200
than just the already hard 
foiling. 

452
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:22,640
Make it as easy as possible for 
yourself, like without 

453
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,360
compromising on too much 
performance. 

454
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:26,600
Obviously you don't wanna be out
there with having this great 

455
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,480
ability and being on an aircraft
carrier because then you'll just

456
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,920
be up on foil just going, why am
I on this thing? 

457
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,800
I mean, it reminds me a bit of 
windsurfing when I was in the 

458
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,480
80s. 
You see the professional 

459
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,000
windsurfers on their slalom 
boards and they were flying 

460
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,320
around and obviously they were 
great ambassadors for their 

461
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:43,960
brands. 
So people would go and grab one 

462
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,080
and then they'd discover, yeah, 
they go pretty quick. 

463
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,960
But they're absolutely 
incredibly challenging to 

464
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,000
actually turn. 
And you don't notice them 

465
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,960
because they're so good at it, 
because they the edge that rails

466
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,760
are just so sharp. 
You, the average person's got to

467
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,320
take a wide berth and, and 
struggle. 

468
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,800
So I suppose it's the same you 
got to, you got to kind of 

469
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,120
sometimes suck it in and know 
what you can do rather than 

470
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:08,040
looking at everyone else and and
thinking I'll get smaller is 

471
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,760
better, you know? 
That that's a massive point. 

472
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,200
So it's sort of like people need
to foil to their ability, not 

473
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,400
and use the equipment to their 
ability, not to their ego or not

474
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,520
to what Instagram tells and what
to get. 

475
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,440
You know what I mean? 
Like there's, there's a lot of 

476
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,920
misinformation I find, or not 
necessarily misinformation, but 

477
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,840
opinions from people who are 
like in everyone's open and 

478
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,760
valid and able to have their 
opinion. 

479
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,120
But it can be really hard when 
you're trying to tell someone 

480
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,120
what you think they should get 
based off your opinion, but not 

481
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,240
necessarily professional opinion
based on someone who knows a 

482
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,520
product to a point, right? 
So like someone might ask me, 

483
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,560
does the Access whatever wing go
with this board or where do you 

484
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,680
put it in the box? 
OK, so I text Gabby, who's 

485
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,400
sponsored by Access and say, 
hey, got a customer. 

486
00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,800
This is the wing that they've 
got. 

487
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,320
Where would you put it in the 
box? 

488
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,840
And then she'll come back to me 
within 24 hours, 12 hours, 

489
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,440
whatever it is. 
And then I can refer that back 

490
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,240
to the customer instead of me 
just guessing. 

491
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:11,080
Because if I just guess and go 
put it the two inch mark, I've 

492
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,600
just basically lied out of my 
teeth and then I can't sleep at 

493
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,920
night because, you know, I've 
just told someone something that

494
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:19,000
I just made-up. 
You know, I'd rather go. 

495
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,320
So give me 24 hours. 
I'll get back to you. 

496
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,200
And I'm just going to check with
someone who knows, you know what

497
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:25,760
I mean? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

498
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,920
We talked a little bit about 
Dave and how he goes and you 

499
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,840
know can can go and try 
something and test, test new 

500
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,560
products etcetera. 
What's the philosophy of the 

501
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,080
Kalama Performance brand in 
developing new products and how 

502
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,920
do you think that sort of 
compares with maybe other brands

503
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,680
that you've you've seen or had 
experience within in the falling

504
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:50,040
space so. 
Instead of having such a huge 

505
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:55,000
range, how I've understood it 
with Dave is he makes boards 

506
00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:01,520
that he likes to ride and then 
expands it out to share what he 

507
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,440
likes to ride. 
The range isn't huge, it's not 

508
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:09,200
like, and it doesn't go up in 
like, you know, I have an 80, an

509
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:14,720
86A9 foot and then I have 100 
leaders, 100 and 1000 and 2000 

510
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,400
and 30. 
That's sort of just whatever the

511
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,200
computer worked out to be that 
the dimensions that you want to 

512
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,920
have. 
He sort of works it out and 

513
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,560
tweaks it all pretty much 
sharing his quiver with everyone

514
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,200
else and making sizes and 
tweaking sizes to where we think

515
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,080
will suit certain markets and 
stuff. 

516
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,640
So we have Japan, Europe, 
America, Hawaii, Australia, New 

517
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,200
Zealand and what Japan gets, 
they're all in the same range, 

518
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,920
but Japan might not order the 
same as what I'd order for 

519
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,280
Australia. 
So and then Tomo and I in the 

520
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,640
last in the V2 in the Gator have
had a lot of input of what sizes

521
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,480
we think will work best for XY 
and Z basically does that answer

522
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,200
your question or not? 
Yeah, no, that's fine. 

523
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,520
I mean, I mean, one of the 
challenges, I suppose is 

524
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,920
something new always attracts 
attention and there is this sort

525
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,080
of pressure every year to bring 
out something new. 

526
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,160
But you've got to decide what's 
your philosophy to that? 

527
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,280
Are you going to go with that 
sort of process where you're 

528
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,880
kind of launching every 
something every year or does 

529
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,040
there have to be a significant 
benefit or something driving it?

530
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,440
Yeah. 
So we don't do things in years. 

531
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,440
So like a lot of brands will 
have their 2024 range, 2025, and

532
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,800
then they're constantly chasing 
their tails to innovate or come 

533
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,440
up with some fancy new 
description that doesn't really 

534
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:35,920
mean anything and just fancy 
words that, you know, the 

535
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,160
consumer reads and goes, oh, but
my board's better because it's 

536
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,760
got XY and Z, but they don't 
actually understand what any of 

537
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,840
that means or does. 
So Dave's always done things in 

538
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,440
series. 
So there was E2E3 Barracuda, V2 

539
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,320
Barracuda. 
Now we're into Gator. 

540
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,440
Now the way that the Gator came 
about was actually 12 months 

541
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,080
ago. 
It's pretty funny story 

542
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:58,920
actually. 
I've done M2O. 

543
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,920
And then Dave said to me, he 
rings me and says, how long you 

544
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,240
back in Maui for? 
And I was like, oh, like a week.

545
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:05,800
And he goes, what are you doing 
tomorrow? 

546
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,800
And I was like downwinding, 
probably why. 

547
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,080
And he goes, meet me in the car 
park, buy Whole Foods at this 

548
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:12,880
time. 
And I'm like, what? 

549
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,520
OK, yeah, righto, whatever. 
He goes bring your foil, your 

550
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,120
paddle, you give it no board. 
I was like, righto, there's 

551
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,320
something going on here. 
Anyway, showed up. 

552
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,400
He didn't show me it. 
It was just I could see the tail

553
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,600
and I was like, what is that 
thing like that looks bizarre. 

554
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,880
And he's like, put your foil on.
I think it goes here. 

555
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,040
We're going to go, go to the 
Gulch. 

556
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:31,960
If anyone's there, we're 
bailing, OK? 

557
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,200
Like like I'm going to reverse 
straight down the water. 

558
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,160
You and Tom. 
I got to go like, go, go, right?

559
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,000
So I felt like I was on this 
like full like secret mission 

560
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,520
and went down the Gulch. 
There was no one there. 

561
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,120
It was early. 
So like the window wasn't that 

562
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,080
strong. 
He reversed like pretty much 

563
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,920
almost into the water with the 
car. 

564
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,680
It was like go, go, go, go, go. 
So we pulled him out and with 

565
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,920
first time I've ever got to look
at this thing and I'm paddling 

566
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,320
it out and I'm going, oh, this 
thing's cool. 

567
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,200
Like it's more stable. 
It tracks in a straight line, 

568
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,520
doesn't your side to side. 
It got up so much easier than my

569
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,560
V2 Barracuda. 
And then when you were up, it 

570
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,240
felt about a foot shorter, like 
it rides a foot shorter when 

571
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,800
you're up and foiling touchdowns
were not even a thing. 

572
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,720
Or when your nose slaps down, it
didn't shoot off to one side. 

573
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,520
It's sort of just straight back 
up again. 

574
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,160
And I was just going, what is 
going on? 

575
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,040
Like this thing is incredible. 
We came in at a different 

576
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,440
location. 
Obviously can't say because you 

577
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,240
know, that's our secret training
ground. 

578
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,280
So and it came in a different 
location. 

579
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:34,680
They went straight back in the 
bag. 

580
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,520
And then it was like, all right,
thanks, see you later. 

581
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,120
And then we had a phone call 
later on to talk about what our 

582
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,240
findings were. 
And he was like, we got to keep 

583
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,280
this secret. 
Like I can't let anyone know. 

584
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,680
Like if anyone gets any wind of 
this, like it's not, you know, 

585
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,320
we're done for kind of thing. 
And that's why we played the 

586
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,360
secret game until literally like
a couple of days before they 

587
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,040
were going to arrive. 
I did that corny ass video where

588
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,000
I had the pillowcase on my head 
and pulled it off and I was 

589
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,440
cable tied behind my back and I 
was like that. 

590
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,480
If can I tell him now? 
And and then it was kind of it 

591
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,080
was good because it was like 
people were sort of wondering 

592
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,160
and I had a lot of questions 
like we're coming into a new 

593
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,320
season. 
Is there AV 3 Barracuda and 

594
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,120
there's people talking, oh, 
there's definitely AV 3. 

595
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,360
They've been quiet about it, 
What's going on? 

596
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:24,400
And then boom, the data came out
and the comments were mixed 

597
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:30,400
based on the fact that it is so 
bizarre and so different and so 

598
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,880
far from any other board there 
is on the market in any 

599
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,160
discipline. 
Like even, you know, canoe are 

600
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,440
like this, whereas the Gator is 
like like that It's opposite. 

601
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,000
It's like, it's like the back of
a house imploded on itself. 

602
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,480
But when you ride it, when you 
watch someone paddle it up and 

603
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,680
then he talks about or I explain
the features of it and not into 

604
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,560
the same amount of detail Dave 
does because he obviously is the

605
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,080
creator of it. 
It makes so much sense. 

606
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,400
It doesn't pull water up with it
when you're doing like a flat 

607
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,320
water paddle up. 
If you watch my flat water 

608
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,600
paddle up video that I did when 
I first got it, when I read 

609
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,840
Kalama shirt, there is no water 
that gets pulled up. 

610
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,560
And you know, there's ways of 
how you find that out. 

611
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,880
Like one of the stories was he 
told me he was towing his six 

612
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,280
man canoe up to PR, he with his 
jet ski. 

613
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,720
And when you got to a certain 
speed, he'd look back and 

614
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,640
there's just water, like just 
like in the air, like mass 

615
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,160
amounts of water. 
And he's going, that's strange, 

616
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,160
wonder why I was doing that. 
And he slowed down and it would 

617
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,360
do, it would play him and then 
he speed up. 

618
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,800
And what was happening was that 
water was getting sucked up the 

619
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,080
side and it was spraying the 
capping point of like the gunnel

620
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,880
because that was its only 
release point. 

621
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,000
So if you have a board that's 
rounded like like a log, one, 

622
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,160
it's going to be super unstable.
And then two, there's no release

623
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,000
point for the water. 
So as as you paddle up, it's 

624
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,400
going to be dragging and sucking
all that water up with it. 

625
00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:00,680
Whereas the Gator having such 
jagged edges in such a sleek 

626
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,160
design, it doesn't pull the 
water with it. 

627
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,920
Therefore you get on foil a 
quicker and two less effort. 

628
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,840
Yeah, yeah, when I spoke to 
Cynthia, yeah, I'm Sinbad Brown,

629
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,120
she was saying her first go out 
on on the Kalama. 

630
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,000
Just the stability was one of 
the things that she was raving 

631
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:17,560
about. 
She. 

632
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,440
Was really strong. 
And she's obviously she's very 

633
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,280
skillful, but yeah, she noticed 
it straight away, so. 

634
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,880
Faster too. 
It was funny actually. 

635
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,960
There's a story this I took, I 
got, I got quite a lot of 

636
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,920
customers in Cronulla in just 
South of Sydney there because of

637
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,200
course a Mick branch. 
He's very influential in the 

638
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,760
area now. 
No social media, nothing is 

639
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,480
Incognito, but he does like R&D 
with Dave and stuff like that 

640
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,040
too. 
And a couple of his mates, 

641
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,840
Scotty, one of them, Scotty in 
particular, who was who talk 

642
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,600
about here. 
We went down to the Bay wave 

643
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,120
that they have at Ganamata Bay. 
Such a fun wave. 

644
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,280
It was tiny. 
He was paddling like he would 

645
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,840
normally would on his V1 Cooter,
and he was out running the wave.

646
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,320
Like, I'm like, Scotty, slow 
down, man. 

647
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,720
Like you don't have to paddle 
that hard anymore. 

648
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,920
And he was literally out running
the wave and I was going and 

649
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,920
we're all just like, there was 
probably four or five of us out 

650
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,320
on the new Gator. 
And it was even the first time 

651
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,440
I'd surfed one as well. 
Everyone was just like, what is 

652
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,120
this thing? 
Like, I can't believe it's that 

653
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,920
much better. 
Like it was, yes, significant, 

654
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,440
significant difference. 
Like it's, yeah, you really got 

655
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,440
to ride one. 
If you're skeptical on it, you 

656
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,280
really have to ride one too to 
know. 

657
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,400
I know Dave got a text message 
this morning or yesterday from 

658
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,760
Kai Thompson, who came third at 
Molokai. 

659
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,600
And one of the key points was I 
don't think I would have had the

660
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,159
same result if I wasn't on the 
Gator. 

661
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:39,840
Yeah, yeah, right. 
Which is huge. 

662
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,600
Yeah, absolutely. 
And as you said, there's some 

663
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,639
good places in the events for 
people riding the gear. 

664
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,960
So yeah, you know, they're 
obviously talented riders, but 

665
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,600
still, that's a good 
endorsement. 

666
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:53,159
Yeah. 
When it comes to Kalama and 

667
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:56,280
people kind of understanding the
brand and what it stands for is 

668
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,680
is there anything that people 
kind of misunderstand? 

669
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,840
You think, is there any areas 
where there might be 

670
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,080
misperceptions about Kalama? 
They could be, yeah. 

671
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,600
I don't know if I if I hear them
directly because I'm directly 

672
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,840
involved. 
There's definitely look, there's

673
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,240
definitely other ambassadors and
other brands and other shapers 

674
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:19,040
that have their philosophy and 
their philosophy works in their 

675
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,160
eyes and their team writers and 
stuff like that. 

676
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,320
And then we have our philosophy 
and what works for us. 

677
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:29,800
So I guess got their opinion on 
what works and what doesn't 

678
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,840
work. 
So I pretty much put it down to 

679
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,040
the proofs in the pudding. 
You write it, see it, touch it, 

680
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,120
feel it, write it. 
Thank you on it. 

681
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,800
You know, like, like I said 
earlier in this conversation, 

682
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,240
the couple of guys we're riding 
other boards that are very 

683
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:47,760
popular at the moment. 
Another one just got a Gator 

684
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,000
today and he's like, oh man, I 
wish I had this thing in the 

685
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,880
Molokai race. 
I needed it and I knew I should 

686
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,880
have got it prior. 
And now they're like, you know, 

687
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,480
it's, it's kind of like the poor
man pays twice, right? 

688
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,360
Like just buy the right thing 
the first time. 

689
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,520
But unfortunately, sometimes 
we're LED into other boards, 

690
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,280
maybe because of someone says 
that you need to get these 

691
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,440
dimensions, but they're not 
quite right for your actual 

692
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,320
ability or it might be cheaper 
or something like that. 

693
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,240
But what you need to understand 
is what you're getting with a 

694
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,320
calamar is not just paying for a
foil board. 

695
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:26,800
You're paying for, you know, 60 
years of innovation, experience 

696
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,200
and knowledge that all goes into
each board. 

697
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,880
Plus the construction of the 
Gator, they made the Kinetic 

698
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,600
factory in Vietnam, which 
another a lot of reputable 

699
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,120
boards are made there as well. 
But with our carbon PVC 

700
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,320
construction like an 88 is 
probably I think it's about 5.2 

701
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,520
kilos, which isn't extremely 
light like a couple of say 

702
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,560
Australian made boards. 
But if you drop it on the 

703
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,920
concrete, it might, the paint 
might chip, but it's not going 

704
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,440
to Pierce it or it's not going 
to crack like an eggshell. 

705
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,760
So I think to answer your 
question, everyone has their 

706
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,440
philosophy, Every brand has 
their philosophy and their team 

707
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,840
writers that believe. 
But that's only a team writer 

708
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,000
level. 
If you're a customer and you 

709
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,520
want to have the best possible 
board and you want quality and 

710
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,680
you want something that's been 
innovative and not just guest, 

711
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,000
that's a clamor. 
And and maybe a more challenging

712
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,120
question, if you're looking for 
any negatives, you know, we're 

713
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,040
talking about all these, all the
good things. 

714
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,160
Is there any downsides with the 
gear we're talking about here 

715
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,400
that people need to be aware of?
Let me just let me just check if

716
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,920
Dave Yeah, let me do Dave's 
around listening in. 

717
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,720
No any negatives? 
Not sure to be honest, like I 

718
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:42,080
maybe availability some 
sometimes I've been caught out 

719
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,120
in Australia saying hey, I want 
this size, but I don't have that

720
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,440
size and for me to get that size
in it's not worth it. 

721
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,680
You know, it's, it's a 
passionate like the, the Kalama 

722
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,240
thing now for me isn't a full 
time job anymore. 

723
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,640
It used to be, I've moved into a
maritime career working on a 

724
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,840
tugboat, and I'm really enjoying
that. 

725
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:05,640
This is a a hobby now for me 
that I thoroughly enjoy. 

726
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,200
But unfortunately for me, to get
one board in, it doesn't work 

727
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,080
that way. 
I think that would be the honest

728
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,280
negative. 
Yeah, sure. 

729
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,360
Because the factory doesn't just
make one board and send it like 

730
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,640
we all order in our particular 
ordering times and stuff like 

731
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,920
that. 
In the past I've been to Maui 

732
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,760
and brought boards back with me 
for customers, like the options 

733
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,440
been open. 
If someone wants an 86, I can 

734
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,680
bring an 86 home tomorrow when I
come back. 

735
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,320
But I think if you want to talk 
about the negative, I think 

736
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:41,680
availability in Australia for 
the not so popular sizes, but if

737
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,520
you really want it, I can get 
it. 

738
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,320
It's just, it might just cost 
you a little more than what is 

739
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,840
advertised online. 
Like it'll still be the 300 dot,

740
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,440
but the freight component. 
I'll go halves or something like

741
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,000
that. 
You know, like I want to see 

742
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,960
someone. 
I would rather see someone on a 

743
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,880
Kalama board and have a great 
experience with Kalama Kalama 

744
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,880
Australia then go somewhere else
because I couldn't get it or a 

745
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,640
bit. 
Obviously if it's not in stock, 

746
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,800
it's not in stock. 
If Dave doesn't have it, doesn't

747
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,120
have it, I can order it for you 
on the next lot, but you might 

748
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,800
be waiting a while. 
So I think that's probably the 

749
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,240
only honest negative that I can 
think about on the spot right 

750
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:17,600
now. 
Yeah, sure. 

751
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:20,520
Yeah, I there's nothing else 
really like it. 

752
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,040
It does sound like it. 
There's a range enough so the 

753
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,560
beginners and advanced have got 
something in there to to kind of

754
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,560
a system so you don't have to 
get to a certain level before 

755
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,200
you can get into the board. 
You might just. 

756
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:30,880
Work. 
No, there's three. 

757
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,800
Different models. 
Yeah, there's always that. 

758
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,320
And I've always had this 
philosophy in my whole career in

759
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,600
in paddle board and foil sales 
is if I don't have a board, 

760
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,800
that's not gonna if I don't have
a board to suit you, I'm not 

761
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,760
gonna sell it just to make the 
sale. 

762
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,840
Like because I want to sleep at 
night and know that you're 

763
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,640
having a good experience. 
Like if if you can't stand on or

764
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,600
you're too heavy for what I've 
got in stock, I'm not going to 

765
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,320
sell it to you. 
Just you know, because then I 

766
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,720
know that you're going to have a
horrible time on it and you're 

767
00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:02,000
going to be going all that Dylan
guy saw me this board, blah, 

768
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,320
blah, blah. 
Whereas I rather say. 

769
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:08,560
I'm sorry, man, I don't have a 
board to suit you at the moment.

770
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,240
Or if there's another board that
I think would be suitable for 

771
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:15,560
them, I would probably steer 
them in that direction. 

772
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,520
Yeah. 
Or it's just, yeah, it's the 

773
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,800
sport is too expensive to be 
mucking around too much with 

774
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,880
swapping gear and whatnot. 
And people sort of come to me 

775
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,200
for my professional opinion on 
what is correct and right for 

776
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,440
them so they're not left in the 
dark like buying something on 

777
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,560
Marketplace because the guy 
wants to get the sale. 

778
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,040
He's like, yeah man, this is 
heaps good for you. 

779
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,560
And then he's just flicked the 
same shitty foil set up to the 

780
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,320
7th person on marketplace. 
Yeah. 

781
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,120
I've seen examples and in some 
shops where you know, some 

782
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,800
really good foilers standing 
behind the counter and I think 

783
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,080
sometimes they forget what it's 
like how hard it can be for 

784
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,800
people and they're recommending 
stuff and they're meaning that 

785
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,920
they're they're meaning to do 
all the right things. 

786
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,320
But I've sometimes seen people 
on the wrong gear just because I

787
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,280
think maybe the person behind 
the counters just a really good 

788
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,840
foiler and forgets what it's 
like to actually get get 

789
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:05,800
started. 
Yeah. 

790
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,440
Yeah, 100% agree. 
So like I've been coaching 

791
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:13,480
foiling for six years now and 
sort of yeah, you've really got 

792
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,640
to you might go through more 
wings. 

793
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,880
It best to start on something 
that's going to be easy and 

794
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,560
suitable for you. 
Yes, you might have to change it

795
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,720
in six months time, but if you 
started on that one that say, 

796
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,560
you know, you might have start 
on the lift 120 where you should

797
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,320
have been on lift 150, It's just
going to make your progression 

798
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,440
so much quicker and safer and 
easier. 

799
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,200
But no, I I do know what you 
mean. 

800
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,880
There's, I think everyone gets a
little bit frothed out and foil 

801
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,240
brained and whatnot and they 
just sort of forget that this 

802
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:46,560
guy's 1015 kilos heavier than 
you. 

803
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,560
He doesn't have the same surf 
background as you. 

804
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,680
He shouldn't be riding what 
you're riding. 

805
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,000
But if he aspires to ride what 
you ride, maybe set him up with 

806
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,640
the same model board or same 
foil model but in a larger size,

807
00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:01,000
you know, so they're not out 
there just struggling. 

808
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,520
And then you paddle out and 
you've run and cut laps around 

809
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:04,640
and you're like, oh, what's 
going on, man? 

810
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,960
Why can't you do this? 
And it's like, well, you just 

811
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,440
told me to get it and now I 
can't do it. 

812
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,520
So what? 
That's on you. 

813
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,800
Yeah, yeah. 
It's, it's not good for the 

814
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,120
sport either. 
It's yeah, because it is. 

815
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,400
It is frustrating and I think 
that's part of what makes the 

816
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,400
community so great. 
You know, in my local, obviously

817
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,840
when you're learning in Perth, 
WA, you're in the Swan River 

818
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,160
here before you even venture to 
the ocean. 

819
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,840
And there's a, there's just such
a great community down there of 

820
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,480
people that, you know, have all 
got the sort of the best support

821
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,720
for people trying to do it. 
And we all know how frustrating 

822
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:36,000
it can be. 
I think that's. 

823
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:39,320
It's this one river where the 
those like semi displacement 

824
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,960
hull boats go through it 8 knots
and then people go Phoebe. 

825
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,040
Yeah. 
So, yeah. 

826
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:43,920
So really. 
Yeah. 

827
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:45,440
I've done that. 
Really so fun. 

828
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:49,120
For so fun dock, dock starting 
and things like that, 

829
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,280
particularly this time of year 
in winter, yeah, yeah, we're 

830
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,240
obviously famous for wind and 
summer, but winter it just drops

831
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:57,360
right off. 
And so everyone dining on their 

832
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,760
their weddies and trying to 
catch boats wakes as they go 

833
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,560
past. 
It's, it's pretty, it's getting 

834
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,000
pretty, it's getting pretty 
packed behind some of these big 

835
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,080
fairies in Perth now. 
Really just a bit. 

836
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,520
Of fun, Yeah. 
At one stage, the fairies were 

837
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,840
actually stopping when people 
got in behind them. 

838
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,800
They went through a bit of a a 
phase of getting annoyed with 

839
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,440
it, but they seem to seem to 
have gotten over that, which is 

840
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:20,760
great. 
But yeah. 

841
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,040
Yeah, they've got to keep going.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

842
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,960
What's, what's your take on the,
on the current state of falling 

843
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,480
at the moment? 
Do you think it's, you know, 

844
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,480
where is it in its evolution 
and, and what's kind of exciting

845
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,400
you about what might be coming 
up into the future for falling? 

846
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,000
Big question. 
It's really interesting question

847
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:43,400
to ask. 
I have seen a downturn in people

848
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:48,040
wanting lessons of wanting to 
learn. 

849
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,880
Maybe it's more accessible now. 
Like I used to have people 

850
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,960
travel from as far as Jervis Bay
all the way to Coffs Harbour to 

851
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,840
me in Newcastle to coach them 
how to foil for the first time. 

852
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,800
But now there's probably more 
people setups. 

853
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,240
That's probably, but there's a 
lot of people in it, There's a 

854
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:07,720
lot of gear in it. 
I think if you want to talk 

855
00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:11,360
about a gear perspective, like 
equipment, it's quite flooded at

856
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:12,960
the moment. 
There's a lot of equipment, 

857
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,280
there's a lot of second hand 
gear. 

858
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,200
So there's a lot of second hand 
entry level people coming into 

859
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,040
it, which is great for the sport
because it's adding more people.

860
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,360
It's definitely growing. 
Like if you look at, I'll just 

861
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,080
look at my results from the last
three M2M's, there was like 40 

862
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:34,120
people or 50 people IN2023M2M120
last year, 185 this year, just 

863
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:38,520
in Sup downwind now, which is 
crazy to think of because coming

864
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,840
from stand up paddle background 
and not really been a surfer as 

865
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,160
such. 
Like I was a body board and a 

866
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,440
long border and then stand up 
paddle into start paddle foil, 

867
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,320
still longboard. 
Definitely no body board anymore

868
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:49,880
because I broke my shoulder last
year doing it. 

869
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,560
And people would always ride 
off, stand up paddling like, oh,

870
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,000
that's gay sea sweeper and blah,
blah, blah. 

871
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,680
And then you see all these like 
heavy surf dudes that are, you 

872
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,120
know, quite the ego about them. 
We're like, oh, I've got to 

873
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:05,960
learn. 
If I want to learn how to 

874
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,560
downwind, I've got to learn how 
to Sup. 

875
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,320
And then, you know, next minute 
they're doing tutorials on how 

876
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,200
to Sup And you're like, hang on 
a second, Weren't you like the 

877
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:18,920
biggest Sup hater ever? 
So Sup foiling, yes, like Sup 

878
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,080
downwind foiling, I believe is 
taking off prone, not really 

879
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:27,120
sure where prone sort of sort of
staggered at like stagnant at 

880
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:28,440
the moment. 
Winging. 

881
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,040
I'm not in the wind scene, like 
wind, like kites and sails and 

882
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,200
stuff like that. 
Here on Maui, there's still a 

883
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,800
lot of wing dingers. 
Power wing is definitely 

884
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,720
something that I wouldn't do, 
but after doing a Kihei run with

885
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:43,360
the Kuwait boys the other day, 
it kind of interests me. 

886
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,800
But then and then living where I
live, definitely not like it's, 

887
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,040
it's too thick or yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

888
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,800
SAP foiling in the waves unless 
it's like a Bay wave break. 

889
00:45:54,000 --> 00:46:00,640
So I I think prone downwind are 
still the strong ones and pair 

890
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,240
of wing is the new thing to do. 
So obviously that's going to 

891
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:06,680
have a an influx of people, but 
it's definitely still growing. 

892
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:08,240
There's still a lot of people 
doing it. 

893
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,240
There's still a lot of people 
getting into it. 

894
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,040
I think as a community of 
foilers, we need to be 

895
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:19,200
encouraging of the people who 
would, you know, beginning of 

896
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:23,800
obviously also be educational as
well, because it's nothing worse

897
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,400
than a kook paddle and out on a 
foil with no leg rope on. 

898
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,320
That gives me the shits, you 
know, and I've, you know, I've 

899
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,720
had words with people very 
kindly in the water and then 

900
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:34,960
they arc up at you and you're 
like, mate, think about it. 

901
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,800
Like think about it. 
It could. 

902
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,480
Yeah, I had an incident with 
someone on a beach that you had 

903
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,240
to drive 10 KS on on your with 
your 4 wheel drive to get 

904
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:43,680
anywhere. 
Had no leg rap on. 

905
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,240
He said, oh, the shop said I 
don't need one. 

906
00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:48,000
I went well, let's go in mate, 
I'll give you one just so I know

907
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,640
that me and my partner are going
to be chopped up alive out of 

908
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,160
you. 
So yeah, I think as as a 

909
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,960
community that are already in 
it, educated in it, we need to 

910
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:02,080
educate then new people into one
etiquette and safety is a huge 

911
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:03,880
one. 
Like I'm a massive advocate for 

912
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:07,360
when you're downwinding to wear 
safety gear like life jacket. 

913
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,120
I've got an E perb, my phone's 
on me. 

914
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,560
I wear fluoro jerseys. 
I actually make fluoro jerseys. 

915
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,080
Did my own R&D on it for for 
orange and pink jerseys, the 

916
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,000
most seen colours in the ocean. 
Yeah. 

917
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,000
Hope that answers your question.
As that was good, good rundown. 

918
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,240
I understand you run some foil 
camps, so can you talk through 

919
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,200
kind of what that's about when 
they're on and and what do you? 

920
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:32,920
Do I'd love to so how it 
happened was I was supposed to 

921
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,680
run a foil component in the 
Maldives and with another with a

922
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,720
like as part of a stand up 
paddle thing with another stand 

923
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:44,520
up paddle coach and we didn't 
reach our minimum numbers at the

924
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,200
cutoff period so we basically 
had to cancel it and Corey 

925
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:52,280
Elwood who's the owner of foil 
brained he which is the clothing

926
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,520
that I wear in the hat yeah love
it the good the gear is so good.

927
00:47:55,560 --> 00:48:00,400
He frosts the 80s Geraldton 
local and he was like he was one

928
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,160
of the guys on the trip and I 
just sort of because I was in 

929
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,400
contact with him I was kind of 
like do we just go to Bali? 

930
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,800
Like let's just go to Bali. 
Hadn't actually met him we're 

931
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,120
just in correspondence. 
He works maritime industry as 

932
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,600
well so a lot in common and then
I dragged my best mate Mitchell 

933
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:19,120
on who's who I work for BMG for 
in maritime in tugboats and we 

934
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:24,160
went to Bali and we toe foiled 
like 6 days in a row like it was

935
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,200
wild. 
Had the best time and there was 

936
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:31,160
other other guys that were like 
traveling there with their wives

937
00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:34,160
or friends or on their own and 
then every day they'd be like, 

938
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:35,560
hey, can we foil with you guys 
tomorrow? 

939
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,840
Like that was really fun 
yesterday, like what time should

940
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,400
we meet in the morning? 
And I just said to Corey, I 

941
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,440
went, this is the thing man. 
Like we don't have to like I've 

942
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,160
done coaching clinics like 
coaching camps before in 

943
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,240
Australia and we just pretty 
much did it. 

944
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,920
It was so random like Corey, 
he's not as good on talking on 

945
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,360
the camera. 
You get kind of that's what I do

946
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:00,520
and I put my phone on like 
selfie mode video on a bin Tang 

947
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,080
can looking out at airport riots
and just started this 

948
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,720
conversation with him and said, 
oh, we're going to do a foil 

949
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:09,200
camp. 
It's going to be April next 

950
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,160
year. 
Pretty much just pulled it out 

951
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,800
of my ass. 
Realistically is what we're, you

952
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,720
know, the details as such. 
And we had this huge influx of 

953
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:20,320
people say I want to come, like 
let me know. 

954
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,040
It's like all right, I'll put 
you on the VIP list. 

955
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:25,800
And then when it came time to 
finalizing the whole thing, we 

956
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,840
sent out invitations to the 
people on the VIP list and it 

957
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:34,160
sold out without advertising it.
And we were like shit, OK, like 

958
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,400
that's cool. 
So we ran our first official 

959
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:44,720
foil camp in April, just gone in
Sonoa, Bali in one Queenslander,

960
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:50,400
2 guys from the Central Coast, 
myself in Newcastle, one guy 

961
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:55,720
from the South Coast near Ala 
Dalla and then the rest were WA 

962
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,880
guys. 
There was Paul Fitters who's 70.

963
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,400
Like what a weapon like that guy
towed. 

964
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:06,200
My God, he's such a good bloke. 
I was calling him grandpa and 

965
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,880
stuff like you know, and I 
called Corey daddy now and then 

966
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,840
just to bit of fun. 
But we had this secret time. 

967
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:17,320
We toe foiled every single day. 
We proned maybe one or two days 

968
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,080
and everyone had a really, 
really good time. 

969
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,760
If you want to talk about the 
only negative thing was the only

970
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,680
negative was that I, we slacked 
off on the videography. 

971
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,440
But on the next camp we have 
full videography. 

972
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,200
Like I'm flying in a guy from 
Newcastle for the trip and he's 

973
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,320
going to do all the, the in 
water, all the, all the 

974
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:37,600
videography, all the 
photography. 

975
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,400
He's got package deals and stuff
like that. 

976
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,200
But pretty much in summary, it's
not a coaching camp, but I will 

977
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,440
coach because I am a foil coach 
if need be, because obviously I 

978
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,040
want to see people, you know, 
excel and do well and have a 

979
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,240
good time. 
It's it's out of Sanua. 

980
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,520
It's a private villa that we, 
it's only for us. 

981
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:56,680
Like you don't even have a room 
key. 

982
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,000
Like we press the buzzer and our
staff come to the door. 

983
00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:01,560
You've got your own room en 
suite. 

984
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,920
We've got our own pool, a key 
every morning I put on a big 

985
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,920
Indonesian feast one night. 
You get a ton of merch, jerseys,

986
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,200
hats, couple other good goodies 
that no one knows about for our 

987
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,560
next camp, which we're super 
stoked about. 

988
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,120
It's a lot of gear to travel 
over there with, though, but 

989
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,000
pretty much, yeah, it's all all 
inclusive, everything inclusive.

990
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:26,960
3500 bucks for seven days of 
foiling your absolute brains out

991
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,920
to the point where like I had 
the like Bondy Adam Bond from 

992
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,000
the Central Coast who just goes 
non choppy goes all right, you 

993
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,280
wore me out. 
I think I'm done. 

994
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,160
Like my legs, I can't take it 
anymore. 

995
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:42,160
You know, it's, it's just 
realistically, it's a really, 

996
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:46,440
really affordable camp to come 
on and you don't think about it.

997
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,960
If you land on a day that your 
camp starts, there's a guy 

998
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,640
waiting with a sign that says, 
you know, like Paul had Paul 

999
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,360
fittest foil Lord or foil 
frother or something like that. 

1000
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,080
You get picked up, you get 
brought to our estate where we 

1001
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,920
stay and you've got a motorbike 
waiting for you, which, you 

1002
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:03,720
know, if you're not interested 
in riding a motorbike, I can 

1003
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:07,080
organise a bicycle and whatever 
or a car like we can just for 

1004
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,160
the bigger trips. 
Videography, brekkies included, 

1005
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,320
one night's dinner's included 
your your bikes. 

1006
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,520
Some of the camps and couples 
can come. 

1007
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,240
So you can have it like if your 
partner foils, it's only 1800 

1008
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:19,880
bucks. 
And if your partner doesn't foil

1009
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,280
but just wants to come because, 
you know, let's be honest, like 

1010
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,800
it's sometimes it might get 
that, that foil trip across the 

1011
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:26,000
line. 
If your missus can come. 

1012
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,920
Yeah, that's right. 
It's a it's 1000 bucks and they 

1013
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,400
can lay by the pool. 
I put them up in a spa, spa 

1014
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,360
thing, spa day for a day or 
whatever. 

1015
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,040
They get the the meal. 
Like they probably get the 

1016
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,360
T-shirts and stuff too. 
And yeah, it's just such a good 

1017
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,120
time. 
Like the last one was couldn't 

1018
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,560
have went any better. 
Put it this way, this is how 

1019
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,360
good it went. 
Every single person who came on 

1020
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,120
last camp has rebooked for next 
year's camp. 

1021
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:52,040
There's a whole week just called
the reunion camp and plus some 

1022
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:54,160
because a couple of their mates 
like I want to go with you. 

1023
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,120
So there's a couple of plus ones
that are coming as well. 

1024
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:03,400
Yeah if it helps is camp on the 
3rd of November till the 10th of

1025
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:07,400
November this coming year. 
There's four spots left. 3500 

1026
00:53:07,720 --> 00:53:10,960
bucks if you want to make it 
cheaper for yourself. 

1027
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:12,280
Have a mate. 
You can share a room. 

1028
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,600
There's two rooms where they 
have two single beds and you can

1029
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,920
share the. 
You can go halves in whatever 

1030
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,920
3500 + 1800 is and work it out 
that way. 

1031
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:22,600
Yeah, yeah. 
And what about and sorry if you 

1032
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,840
touched on it, but just 
experience falling experiences, 

1033
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,880
where do you, where should you 
kind of be up to to make the 

1034
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,000
most of that? 
Yeah, it's it's definitely more 

1035
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:35,680
of a prone style camp, but toe 
starch you, you need to know how

1036
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:40,320
to sink start or wake start. 
We had one guy on the last camp 

1037
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,280
who said that he would learn and
didn't learn. 

1038
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,000
But by day two he had it 
because, you know, you're 

1039
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:50,720
surrounded by it was 10 of us 
was there nine other blokes that

1040
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:53,480
are just sink starting And then 
there's, you know, black Bondy 

1041
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,000
was helping him. 
He's had like hold his board 

1042
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,800
underwater and and and yeah, by 
day two, he was toe starting and

1043
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,400
it just like the level of froth 
just went up a notch, you know, 

1044
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,920
because everyone was. 
And we just go round and round 

1045
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,800
and round. 
Like we have three to four boats

1046
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,200
running for up to five hours a 
day. 

1047
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:14,360
And like, I drive, Cory drives 
and then my boys, Ari and Wayan.

1048
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,840
So we, we LinkedIn with a surf 
school there and you know, we 

1049
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,600
like go and have an afternoon, 
have a briefing. 

1050
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,080
Like, you know what, what 
worked, what didn't work? 

1051
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:24,520
What do you want to work on? 
What's better? 

1052
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,280
Just like, yeah, it's so good. 
It's, it's such a good time. 

1053
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,160
Like, yeah, it's, it's just like
I'm going back over in two weeks

1054
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,880
for another 3 weeks and then I 
have a couple of weeks off and I

1055
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,760
go back over for the camp again.
So you're just going over to 

1056
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,880
finalise some stuff and yeah, 
the boats will be sign written 

1057
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:42,840
with our stuff on it. 
The boys want everything sign 

1058
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:44,480
written so yeah, it's pretty 
cool. 

1059
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,360
It's awesome mate. 
My, my experience with towing, 

1060
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,520
it is so much of it comes down 
to the drivers too, because you 

1061
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,280
know what it takes to pull 
someone up on a board onto the 

1062
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,320
foil versus what it actually 
takes to keep them going. 

1063
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,680
I've seen people shot up in the 
air many times with, you know, 

1064
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:02,160
you've got, you got to know what
you're doing Towing, I think as 

1065
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:03,960
well, those drivers make a big 
difference. 

1066
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,440
That's true. 
So like, Ari doesn't come from a

1067
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,280
surf background at all. 
And I was sort of coaching him 

1068
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,000
through that that week on how to
do the toe starts. 

1069
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,920
And I speak like a little bit of
Bahasa, but not enough. 

1070
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:18,800
But he doesn't speak much 
English. 

1071
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,280
So it's kind of I'm learning 
their language. 

1072
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,960
He's learning our language. 
And yeah, some of that boys are 

1073
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:25,960
like that bigger dude. 
Far out, man. 

1074
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:27,640
Always RIP my arms off. 
I'm like, yeah, yeah, we're 

1075
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,480
working on that. 
It's only his third day towing. 

1076
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,000
And then, yeah. 
But by the end, he was frothing 

1077
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,440
like he was filming at the 
jersey on the heart. 

1078
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:36,640
Like he was texting us like when
we left. 

1079
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,240
When are you guys coming back? 
We miss you. 

1080
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:39,760
That was the best week of our 
life. 

1081
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:41,400
Like, it was. 
I was just so good. 

1082
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,800
It's just just a really fun 
time. 

1083
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:49,440
Like everyone is treated like 
and respected equally. 

1084
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,840
There's no one. 
It's basically if you're going 

1085
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,120
to come on our camp with a huge 
ego, you're going to figure it 

1086
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:56,960
out pretty quickly that it's not
welcome there. 

1087
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,920
It's just everyone's there to 
have a good time and just be on 

1088
00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:02,200
a level playing field and 
encourage each other. 

1089
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,320
You know, we've got some crew, a
lot of crew in their 60s that 

1090
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,120
are coming this time and couples
as well, which I'm really 

1091
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:09,920
looking forward to. 
Like I'm really, really looking 

1092
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,000
forward to, I think Week 1 three
weeks in a row. 

1093
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:17,240
Week 1 is more begin. 
It's intermediate, so the 

1094
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:19,200
level's going to be a little bit
more mellow. 

1095
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,200
Week 2, I believe there's a 
mixture. 

1096
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,440
Week 3 is like, I'm pretty sure 
it's, it's heavy hitters 

1097
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,720
basically. 
Or yeah, maybe. 

1098
00:56:26,720 --> 00:56:28,920
Yeah, that sounds awesome. 
Yeah. 

1099
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,600
I mean, it's, you know, as 
we've, as we've said a number of

1100
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:33,800
times in our chat, it's, you 
know, the community counts for 

1101
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,440
so much. 
So to get together and and go 

1102
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,560
and enjoy yourself and learn 
from others and just watch 

1103
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,360
others what it's all about 
really, isn't it so? 

1104
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:43,200
Great. 
Yeah. 

1105
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,360
So it's so good. 
It's it's definitely changed a 

1106
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,920
lot of people's lives for the 
better. 

1107
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:54,000
It's definitely created an 
absolute shit ton of 

1108
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,400
friendships. 
It's brought people together 

1109
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,320
from all over the world and it's
fantastic. 

1110
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,960
Like it's, I don't think there 
is any other sport that I've 

1111
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,560
been involved in or community 
that I've been involved in that 

1112
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,800
has the scale of what foiling 
has. 

1113
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,760
Like when I talk about how many 
people from all over the world, 

1114
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:15,440
you know, and then, you know, 
even if it's just someone that 

1115
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:19,200
you talk to on Instagram or 
something like that, that you 

1116
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,200
still get an understanding of 
what it's like in their 

1117
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,600
conditions or what they write or
what they recommend or whatnot. 

1118
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:27,440
And you can have an open 
discussion about that stuff. 

1119
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,720
So I think it's really special. 
And I think we really got to 

1120
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:32,720
keep it going good because. 
Yeah. 

1121
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,240
Yeah, yeah, that's right. 
It doesn't take too many people 

1122
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:36,840
to stuff it all up really, does 
it? 

1123
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:37,720
No. 
It doesn't. 

1124
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:39,880
So it doesn't, yeah. 
Yeah. 

1125
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:43,560
I want to ask you sort of, I 
want to ask you a few quick fire

1126
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,000
questions now to kind of finish 
off. 

1127
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:47,400
Fire away. 
Yeah, all. 

1128
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,040
Right. 
Just ready, Here we go. 

1129
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,640
Describe falling in one word. 
Addictive. 

1130
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,600
Yeah. 
Agreed. 

1131
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,560
What's the most rewarding thing 
about falling for you? 

1132
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,000
The feeling that it gives you, 
I, I'm just going to leave that 

1133
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,080
at that because that can be 
determined in so many different 

1134
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,680
ways and so many different 
disciplines of the sport. 

1135
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,920
But the feeling that foiling 
gives you is unlike anything 

1136
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,200
other that you can experience on
the water. 

1137
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:14,720
Yeah, yeah. 
What's What's the best advice 

1138
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,480
you've ever received about 
falling? 

1139
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,360
Best advice I've ever received. 
The foiling. 

1140
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,640
I'm always gonna say be patient.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1141
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,680
It takes time. 
It takes, it takes time. 

1142
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,400
Leave the ego behind is what I 
would. 

1143
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,040
Yeah. 
Be patient and leave the ego out

1144
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,040
of it. 
Yeah, yeah, it can can be very 

1145
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,480
humbling at times. 
Yeah, very humbling. 

1146
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:35,680
My God. 
Yeah. 

1147
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,240
Yeah, I mean, I've said it a few
times on this, but I'm, I'm 

1148
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:43,000
throwing small dock start boards
off jetties and things and yeah,

1149
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:44,560
I'm getting very fit climbing 
ladders. 

1150
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:46,320
It's very humbling, but. 
I don't. 

1151
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,320
I don't do that. 
I know my limits. 

1152
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:49,200
I don't. 
I don't box. 

1153
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,320
That's that's a party trick I 
don't need to do. 

1154
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,000
Yeah. 
Yeah, there's one guy I do it 

1155
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,280
with and he's he's, I was there 
when he did his thousandths, 

1156
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:57,840
thousandths throw. 
He count. 

1157
00:58:57,840 --> 00:58:59,240
He's been counting them. 
Oh my. 

1158
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,640
God, so he's getting pretty 
good, obviously, but. 

1159
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:03,920
I'd hope so. 
After 1000 I think I'll try 3 

1160
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:05,720
concert. 
That'll do, That'll do. 

1161
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:10,000
He's tenacious, he's tenacious. 
What's the What's been the worst

1162
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:11,960
crash moment for you in falling 
so far? 

1163
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:18,680
Is there one that stands out? 
Yeah, probably 20, 22. 

1164
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:23,360
I was doing a maliko, and this 
is before I was wearing a life 

1165
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:24,960
jacket. 
I was just wearing a camelback 

1166
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:31,360
and I breached going down this 
smack and swell and I hit the 

1167
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:35,040
water so hard that it ripped my 
paddle from me. 

1168
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,520
Like I didn't even let go of it.
And I come up and I was seeing 

1169
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,760
stars. 
Like I had a mild concussion, 

1170
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:42,920
which I know a couple of people 
who have had significant 

1171
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,400
concussions from downwind 
foiling and whiplash and stuff 

1172
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,560
like that. 
And that's what really prompted 

1173
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:51,800
me into the safety aspect of 
what what I definitely advocate 

1174
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,000
for now. 
So yeah, I think if you want to 

1175
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,240
talk about just a stack, it was 
probably that one. 

1176
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,760
Like I could have easily have 
knocked myself out and been face

1177
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,240
down and no, had no life jacket 
on. 

1178
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:06,040
So that's what I it doesn't. 
Even if it's a Bay run, a 2K Bay

1179
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,680
run, I'm wearing a life jacket. 
Yeah, yeah, there's lessons to 

1180
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:10,960
be learnt along the way, isn't 
there? 

1181
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,840
Yeah, yeah, definitely. 
What's the next big falling 

1182
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:16,200
adventure or challenge on your 
on your horizon? 

1183
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,120
Well, I'm kind of finished with 
the racing, to be honest. 

1184
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:21,040
I do a couple of big down 
windows at home. 

1185
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:24,720
I do Port Stephenson, Newcastle,
which is 52 KS, and I've mapped 

1186
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:28,160
out another one which is 
probably double that. 

1187
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,120
I'll just need to get the 
logistics right. 

1188
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:34,440
But I do have a couple of other 
bigger sends that I'm curious to

1189
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:37,120
do. 
It's just, yeah, getting 

1190
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:41,840
logistics and safety right for 
me and growing the foil camps 

1191
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:45,400
and going to different locations
that's that's on my radar now is

1192
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,800
the foil camp just, it's all 
we're having fun. 

1193
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:52,000
Not being so serious about 
trying to go fast like down 

1194
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,600
winning is already a logistical 
nightmare as it is, so why would

1195
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,720
we waste 3 hours of driving to 
go and try and do it as quick as

1196
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:01,200
possible? 
Yeah, you want to. 

1197
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:03,080
You want to be out there. 
You want to enjoy it, I mean, a 

1198
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,000
good time. 
Yeah, Yeah, definitely. 

1199
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,000
Anything like we haven't covered
that you you want to chat about 

1200
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,440
before we finish up? 
I pretty much just want to thank

1201
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,520
you for the opportunity to, for 
reaching out to me. 

1202
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:16,120
And yeah, I, I think I, I don't 
promote myself. 

1203
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:19,800
I definitely don't do it as much
as I used to do for promoting. 

1204
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,000
I kind of got over it a little 
bit and, you know, being in the 

1205
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,320
camera and, you know, doing 
videos and stuff. 

1206
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:26,960
I kind of got a little bit burnt
out with it. 

1207
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:32,320
But I kind of believe opinion or
feedback to things is more raw, 

1208
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:37,200
real and honest opposed to 
what's hot, what's new, you 

1209
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,200
know, like, oh, this is the best
foil ever Because I don't know, 

1210
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:41,880
it's just the best foil ever. 
I don't actually know anything 

1211
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:43,760
about it. 
Whereas I still ride the lift 

1212
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:47,920
150 HAXI used it Molokai last 
year, I used it in M2M this 

1213
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:52,480
year, You know, it's a 234 year 
old foil and another 120 and 

1214
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:54,480
it's. 
Yeah. 

1215
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,240
I just reckon there's so much 
good gear that's still out 

1216
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,480
there. 
And yeah, I just really want to 

1217
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:04,600
educate people that don't get 
caught up in the Hoo ha. 

1218
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:07,680
And you know, because I know so 
many people that buy so much 

1219
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:09,200
stuff. 
And I reckon if they've, they 

1220
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:11,960
probably only ride two of the 
wings that they've bought. 

1221
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:13,840
They've bought all this gear. 
They could have bought a Land 

1222
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:15,880
Cruiser right now with all the 
money they've spent. 

1223
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:18,320
Like, yeah, there's. 
Yeah. 

1224
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,160
Yeah, yeah. 
So I think if I had to give some

1225
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:23,520
not feedback, what's the word 
for it? 

1226
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:25,960
Maybe advice. 
Advice. 

1227
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:26,800
That's the word. 
Yeah. 

1228
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:33,200
It's it's been a long day for us
would be 1 poor man pays twice. 

1229
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,920
So again, if you're looking at a
downwinding or a paddle board 

1230
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,840
foil Kalama is where it's at. 
And then your foil brand. 

1231
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:44,880
If you're beginning, make sure 
you talk to someone that you 

1232
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:48,200
trust or that's reputable 
because it is confusing. 

1233
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:52,560
I ride Lyft, they do things in 
projected square inches and then

1234
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:56,400
you've got access who do things 
in span in millimeters and then 

1235
01:02:56,400 --> 01:03:01,600
you've got code who do things in
projected square centimeters. 

1236
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:05,160
So there's three different 
brands there, three different 

1237
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:07,560
ways of measuring. 
It'll be like one person 

1238
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:09,920
measures their board in liters, 
the other one does gallons, and 

1239
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:13,200
the other one does oz or 
whatever that is, you know? 

1240
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:20,400
So what I'm saying is foiling is
hard, it's expensive, it is 

1241
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,520
super rewarding, it's also very 
humbling, but it's also 

1242
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,320
extremely confusing when you're 
entering the sport. 

1243
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:30,880
So choose your foil brand 
wisely, usually because this is,

1244
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:34,520
you know, anyone might be 
listening is choose a foil brand

1245
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:39,160
that crew a lot of crew around 
you have or a shop nearby or 

1246
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:40,920
someone you have a good 
relationship with. 

1247
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,120
You know, you might buy them 
directly from like lift 

1248
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:46,720
Australia or myself or whatever.
Because once you have that foil,

1249
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,760
you can't just put a Axis 
fuselage on a lift mast and a 

1250
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:53,320
Nash tail wing on it. 
It just it doesn't work that way

1251
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:54,880
unfortunately. 
Yeah. 

1252
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:58,960
So yeah, just take your time 
with it, ring someone, get 

1253
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:01,760
information. 
And yeah, don't, don't be the 

1254
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:04,480
poor man that pays twice or 
three times or like some people 

1255
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:08,240
I know, maybe 10 times. 
Yeah, I could. 

1256
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,720
I could save you a lot of money.
Yeah, yeah. 

1257
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,320
Thank you so much for your time.
And obviously you've, you know, 

1258
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,320
you've had a busy few days there
in Hawaii at the event. 

1259
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:18,800
So I really appreciate it and 
and great to chat. 

1260
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:20,360
Yeah, I'm sure people have 
enjoyed it. 

1261
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:22,520
Thanks. 
Yeah, likewise, Pete. 

1262
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:23,720
I appreciate it. 
Thanks mate.