1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:03,320 Welcome to Business Analysis Live. 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,560 I'm your host, Susan Moore, community engagement manager 3 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:09,480 with the International Institute of Business Analysis. 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,680 I explore topics with industry guests about the work of 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,600 business analysis professionals and how their work helps 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,840 organizations achieve better outcomes. 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,760 And yet, we take your questions, too. 8 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:21,760 Thanks for listening. Let's get started. 9 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,280 We don't just talk about business analysis here. 10 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:34,000 We also talk a lot about adjacent skills, things about 11 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,320 business analysis that maybe you don't think have a direct 12 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:42,880 relationship but impact the way that you perform the work that 13 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,640 you do. You see what I did there? 14 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,320 Let me tell you about your voice. 15 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,680 When you are thinking about getting ready to talk with your 16 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,600 stakeholders, or having workshops, or getting ready to 17 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,760 communicate with someone, you probably think about the 18 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,520 logistics. Have I reserved the room? 19 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,920 Do I have the right people on the invitation? 20 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,160 Do I know what the purpose of the meeting is? 21 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,320 Do you think about your voice? Do you think about how using 22 00:01:11,320 --> 00:01:17,560 that instrument can help to convey calm authority or how it 23 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,520 might hurt you? Maybe you haven't, but maybe you 24 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,760 should because sometimes some of those stakeholder issues we have 25 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:30,520 can be remedied by a really good awareness and use of our voice. 26 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:35,800 And for that, I am super excited today to introduce a guest who 27 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:40,960 is an educator on voice and an opera singer. 28 00:01:40,960 --> 00:01:42,440 And we're going to ask him about that. 29 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,000 So I want to welcome to the stage Elias Mogul. 30 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,960 Hey, Elias. Well, you've you've just done my 31 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,240 whole talk. There you go, I feel. 32 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,960 Like you've got a lot more to offer today. 33 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,440 The, the broad strokes are the, the, not the challenge, right? 34 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,240 The it's it the individualization of each of 35 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,800 these skills because everybody processes those things a bit 36 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,040 differently. Now, as you said, I'm an opera 37 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,200 singer and when I was, I've had, I've got about 800 performances 38 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,560 across the globe for a number of years. 39 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,120 And it doesn't matter every time the downbeat happens, it doesn't 40 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,720 matter what we've prepared or what we haven't prepared. 41 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,760 It's what we do at the moment. And sort of the skills can help 42 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,880 you when other things hijack it, like you were talking about 43 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:28,720 inner, you know, challenges, right? 44 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,120 So when I went to go prepare for this and I did an Instagram 45 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,760 post, I found a wonderful the power of the voice, the graphic. 46 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,880 I found a wonderful recording of a famous singer, one of my 47 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,240 favorites, named Lantine Price. And I thought, OK, she's got 48 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,200 this refined skill set that I know from hearing her talk that 49 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:53,080 she's worked on. But she is able to communicate 50 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,040 this in a way that connects to anyone who's listening. 51 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,600 And it makes me think of my experience with you in May, the 52 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,280 talking about the babock and all of the information that ABA has 53 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,120 to assimilate to get a a certification. 54 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,600 Yes. It it's about assimilating that 55 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,120 in front of a stakeholder in the same way that connects to them 56 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:15,960 because we can't give them everything. 57 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,840 And so that's basically who I am. 58 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,520 And what I've been able to do is take the skills that I've gotten 59 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,480 as an educator and a performer and realize that the outcome for 60 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,360 ABA is different, but there are core skills that we can all 61 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,800 practice that I still practice that it isn't just, oh, I, I 62 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:40,680 think about breath now I'm done. That's that's my, that's my sort 63 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,440 of preamble. Now, so you mentioned you and I 64 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,680 got to meet at BA and beyond in Copenhagen. 65 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,680 So you did a keynote in Copenhagen and then you also did 66 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,400 you did a keynote in Utrecht as well. 67 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,640 I did in espresso. You did? 68 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,360 Oh, that's right. Which was great because I 69 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,520 learned from my keynote because the audience was different, 70 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,880 right? So I changed that because the 71 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,640 energy of the folks in Copenhagen was very different 72 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,640 from the energy of those in Utrecht, so. 73 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,680 Yes, yes. Well, so that's where I and by 74 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,519 the way, Phillip Hendricks, who organizes that conference, I 75 00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:23,640 think I'm sure there was a team of folks, but they did such a 76 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,840 great job in in bringing you because you did give us 77 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:30,880 something different to think about. 78 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,840 So first, I know that, you know, I've, I've introduced you and 79 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:36,400 you've kind of talked about your background. 80 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:42,320 I don't know, do you want to add anything else about you before I 81 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,160 before we dive into this conversation, as you can see, 82 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,240 we've got some folks that are already. 83 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,960 Well, I the person is really, really small, so I'll have to 84 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,280 trust you. Hey, let's see if I can make it 85 00:04:54,280 --> 00:04:55,920 bigger. This is a new feature that 86 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,920 Stream Yard has and I I. Haven't. 87 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:02,320 Why are you doing that? The only thing is that that I 88 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,200 grew up with parents that owned a restaurant, so that work ethic 89 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,760 skill is something that helped me in my performance skill. 90 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,880 I'm second generation Lebanese and foreign languages were 91 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,520 always something communication words. 92 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:23,880 I adore words and I, I think I, I help people and myself take a 93 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:29,160 breath and let people let myself listen to what they're saying. 94 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,920 So that's really I've got a thing called develop your 95 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:33,960 authentic voice. And the whole thing about 96 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,600 authenticity is each of us have a private our own personal 97 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,120 vibration and you know, that's how we interact with the world. 98 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,120 So that's, that's kind of who I am in a core and I love to 99 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:45,960 laugh. So that's. 100 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:46,560 Good. All right. 101 00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:49,040 I know we we shared a lot of laughs. 102 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,600 So all right, so now let's talk about I. 103 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,360 By the way, I tried to make that text a little bit bigger. 104 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,920 Is that does that work? I guess I can make it really 105 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,240 big. Can you tell I'm I'm doing this? 106 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,800 Well, you know, one of the advantages of wisdom and sage 107 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:09,480 age is that, you know, you can go things like this and go. 108 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,280 Oh, oh, yeah. OK, cool. 109 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,680 Yeah, I can see the mostly. Excellent. 110 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:20,520 All right, And so the title of, of today's talk, right, you 111 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:26,400 listen, I totally, I totally stole your, the name. 112 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,000 You said your, your blog is developing your authentic voice. 113 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,680 And so that's where the inspiration for today's episode 114 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:38,560 title comes from. So let's talk a little bit about 115 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:46,880 voice and why some of the tools that that you have used as part 116 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:51,240 of your opera singing, why they're important and, and why 117 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,640 we as business analysis professionals might might be 118 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,200 able how we might be able to benefit from some of those. 119 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,440 So if you understand an opera singer or someone who's teaching 120 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:07,040 a course where we deal with, we've said the same thing over 121 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,040 and over again. Many of the opera texts have 122 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,320 been around hundreds of years or poetry. 123 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:16,680 I also like a leader, Schumann, you know, Schubert, Brahms, 124 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:22,080 These are texts by great poets. So I have to memorize the poet 125 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:28,200 poem and then internalize it. So I don't I, it doesn't sound 126 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,920 like I'm just reciting a poem that it becomes part of who I 127 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,680 am. And there are several different 128 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,600 ways I've managed to do that over the years, You know, 129 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,640 kinesthetically writing it out with technology. 130 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,040 There are all kinds of ways with AII can have interesting 131 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:48,400 conversations about the words and find immediately a way to to 132 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:53,240 to do a nuance to a word, a color, and the color transfers 133 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,840 to, you know, how we vocalize something and the whole idea 134 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,160 about taking pauses and letting an idea land. 135 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:06,200 In music, we're lucky because we have rests and silence and music 136 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,280 are about as important as the music. 137 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,000 If anyone's listened to Beethoven Fifth, one understands 138 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,200 the rests have as much power as the. 139 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:22,000 So these are core skills that I have adapted to teaching, to 140 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,680 presenting, to helping others find what they sound like. 141 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:32,640 Because the last thing I'll say about that is nowadays with the 142 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,080 proliferation of recordings of someone with a good voice as a 143 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,440 singer can watch a master and imitate it. 144 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,440 But that's external and that's of value. 145 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:47,800 But finding ways to connect what you liked about a person and 146 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,840 what you wanted to change about your voice means that you have 147 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,880 to be self aware and know what your skills are and what your 148 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,360 strengths are and then maybe what you want to enhance. 149 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,160 And listening to oneself, Pavarotti, if you know who 150 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:07,360 Luciano Pavarotti is, one of the things that hit me is that every 151 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,280 time he said he heard himself in the beginning, he cried because 152 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,920 we don't hear ourselves and we're critical, right? 153 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,360 It's very even now. I, I mean, I recorded my session 154 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,240 at BA and beyond on my iPhone. I can't tell you how long it 155 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,840 took me to listen to it because you know, my imagination of Oh 156 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,920 my God, Elise, did you say, Oh my, you know, that's what we do. 157 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,680 That's the mind satter. But we have control to stop 158 00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:32,800 that. And a stakeholder or an audience 159 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:37,320 member picks up on that negative mind chatter, even if they can't 160 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,040 see it. I'm talking to you and I'm 161 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,560 thinking, Oh my God, what's Susan going to say to me next? 162 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:45,480 Oh, no, am I going to say this? Is she going to ask then? 163 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,680 And I can imagine when you're presenting to a stakeholder, you 164 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:51,840 have lots of things you have to adapt with what they say. 165 00:09:53,560 --> 00:10:00,320 Yes, yeah, you've got to be able to as you are hopefully 166 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,600 listening to what they're saying, right? 167 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,560 You've got to be able to adapt. And so sometimes that it can 168 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:10,720 almost be an out of body experience because now I am 169 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,800 inhabiting the space of why did they say that like that? 170 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:14,960 Are they mad? I don't know. 171 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:16,600 Did I say something wrong? What happened? 172 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,960 You know, and so that's that happens to that happens to 173 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,640 everybody, not just singers, not just business analysis 174 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,520 professionals. So if I were to kind of 175 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:32,440 paraphrase, maybe step one in this is self-awareness is 176 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,560 probably the number one thing that we can bring to the table 177 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:43,880 as we are thinking about how we want to speak to whatever 178 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:49,640 audience and and to prepare ourselves for having that 179 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,440 conversation. So being self aware, I think is, 180 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,160 is 1 good, one good area. What does that mean when you're 181 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,400 when you're work? What does that mean? 182 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,960 I'm going to stop. Well, I mean, there are so many 183 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,280 because that encompasses so many things, right? 184 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,000 Yeah. And, and, and I mean, knowing 185 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,160 your material is one thing, right? 186 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,240 Of course, and, and then letting go of it once you're in the 187 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,480 meeting and not trying to stick to your, this is what I'm going 188 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,840 to say. And you, even if you imagine 189 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,160 that a stakeholder is going to say this self-awareness is also 190 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,600 about noticing how you're reacting to what's being said at 191 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,680 the moment. The reason I was smiling when 192 00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:32,960 you were talking before is because it made me think there 193 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,120 was a tenor who I won't mention. We always called him back to you 194 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,520 because even if like you asked me a question like Elias, tell 195 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,280 me what you're about to do. And we could see with this 196 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,360 particular guy that he was already not listening and 197 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,960 thinking about his response to what you say. 198 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,440 And that's a very slippery, that's easy to do. 199 00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:01,240 So self-awareness involves that sometimes we can record the best 200 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,280 way with these, these smartphones, they're ubiquitous 201 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,840 now. I mean, we've had mirrors 202 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:07,560 forever to see what we look like. 203 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,640 But now in casual ways, we could record a texts, you know, for a 204 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:17,320 week, record what we sound like in a non scripted way to just 205 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:22,160 hear what the quality of our sound is and mostly what's good 206 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,160 about it. That's what I help people do 207 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,800 most because they tend to be hypercritical, you know, and go, 208 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,320 oh, I hate listening to my voice. 209 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,400 Like we said about Pavarotti, I mean, that is a common response. 210 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,840 My voice isn't high enough. It doesn't sound this enough. 211 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,840 It doesn't sound bad enough. Or I'm so good at it that I can 212 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:46,800 just wing it, which which is sometimes useful, but we're only 213 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,120 as good as we are at the moment. That kind of a thing. 214 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,360 So those things all play into awareness, and it's sometimes 215 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,960 that you need a guide because it's a lot. 216 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,760 Yeah, I, you know, we before we got started today, we were 217 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,960 talking about, well, how do you learn to be a good speaker? 218 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:05,640 How do you learn to be a good singer? 219 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:11,480 And you can train and you likely might take courses or in in your 220 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,080 case, right, you are training, you are giving vocal training, 221 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,160 right, and coaching. But to get good, you have to 222 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,680 practice like you have to do it. There's not just I'm going to 223 00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:25,880 read a whole lot and then one day I'm going to be great. 224 00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:31,640 And some of that practice means you've got to be able to listen 225 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,080 to yourself. Now, I can remember my dad was 226 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,040 in television when I was growing up. 227 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:41,480 And so one of the things we got one of the very earliest VCRS. 228 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,600 And so it predated the remote control. 229 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,200 So Susan Little Susan was the star. 230 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:57,400 Recording, pause the recording and I heard my dad on television 231 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,520 because every night when he came home he would watch himself. 232 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,640 So that watching himself is how he got good with interviewing 233 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,080 people, his on camera presence. And he would not have improved 234 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,600 any other way but for the fact that he would watch himself. 235 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,240 So it's important. Yeah, it is. 236 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,520 And when I think about the 45 minute keynote I had to do in 237 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,960 Copenhagen, I had to sort of put everything into it and I 238 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,840 couldn't say everything. If I said everything, everybody 239 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,400 would have been overloaded, right? 240 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,720 And Phillip wanted to be interactive so it couldn't all 241 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,680 be lecture. I can't tell you how many times 242 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,960 I spoke it and practiced it in my head and then recorded it so 243 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:42,480 I could hear what, you know, what I thought maybe I wanted to 244 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,440 say and what I didn't want to say. 245 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,400 And you know, I've had a lifetime of this and it's still, 246 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,120 it doesn't matter how experienced you are, there's 247 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:57,160 still value in, in, in that sort of self, self, self piece, self 248 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,440 listening piece, you know, especially when it's not 249 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,320 scripted, especially if you're not thinking, I am going to 250 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:09,320 record now because we do things with our instrument that might 251 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,480 sound better. We have something that we used 252 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,480 to call radio voice, right? You know, an announcer can sound 253 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,000 really smooth and wonderful and performative and theatrical, but 254 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,600 then you can't remember a single thing they've said after they're 255 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,720 done because they just, you know, like those movie trailers. 256 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,000 We, we talked about this before the idea of you don't have to be 257 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,400 extroverted or performative to be understood. 258 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,600 And one of one of our colleagues I spoke with after the BA and 259 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,720 beyond online talked about, you know, what she called junior 260 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,800 BAS, that they're not as experienced, you know, they're 261 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,600 not as comfortable with one-on-one intimate 262 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,120 conversations because those are hard. 263 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,360 And, and, and, and it isn't because they don't have the 264 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,480 skills, but they haven't done it that much. 265 00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:00,440 And they don't know what part of the pie that they need to maybe 266 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,600 enhance rather than I can't speak very well. 267 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,920 I'm, I'm shy, I don't really like to talk to people. 268 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,760 And I get that, but I think most people, if they're introverted 269 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,200 still have, if they're in a position where they still have 270 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,520 to communicate can be equally or even more effective as you 271 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,760 talked about your own experience where it makes you key in to 272 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,400 each individual and that's how you get authenticity. 273 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,760 So, you know, one of the things that you've said a couple of 274 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,960 times, here's how I've interpreted is that one of the 275 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,360 one of the things that we can do for ourselves is to stop 276 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,960 comparing ourselves to what we think. 277 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,760 It's a great communicator because it may not be in our 278 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,880 skill set. It may be somebody who is very 279 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:51,600 extroverted and totally OK being performative or theatrical on 280 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,160 stage. And while that might get our 281 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,920 attention, it might not be right for us. 282 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,680 So, yeah, you and I were talking about, well, what about the 283 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,640 introverts, right? Our profession is filled with 284 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,000 them. And I feel like sometimes we do 285 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,240 ourselves a disservice by saying, well, I'm an introvert. 286 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:08,760 I can't. Yeah, I can't really talk to 287 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,720 people. Yeah, you can. 288 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,440 You can. And so part of that is how can 289 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,839 you leverage that thing that introverts have, which is to 290 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:23,880 have very deep conversations with one person. 291 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:29,360 How can you leverage that to to get the most out of your 292 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:31,200 communication style? And I think you nailed it. 293 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,840 Part of that lends itself to a certain authenticity that maybe 294 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:39,400 people being over the top and theatrical that they may not be 295 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,240 able to get across. It's like a recipe I think of 296 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,720 like cooking, right? I mean, each of us has a core 297 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,000 set of, you know, recipe ingredients of who we are. 298 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,680 And it's about enhancing what we have rather than say I need to 299 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,160 be more extroverted, I need to be more introverted. 300 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:01,440 It's that both sets of people have skills and can be maximized 301 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,480 to the most potential. But if we're not thinking about 302 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,160 it and we're we slip into judgmental terms. 303 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,000 You know, I'm to this or to that. 304 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:16,160 And one of the things that mind chatter is a very important part 305 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,960 when I would teach young students or even myself, when 306 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,880 you're getting ready to speak, you think, Oh my God, am I going 307 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:24,880 to remember all of this what's going on? 308 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:30,360 It's very we can control what we think, but it takes some energy 309 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,640 and the greatest mentor I had her name was Margaret Harshaw. 310 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,000 She had was credited as having the most roles son at the Met. 311 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,080 One of her things was singing. She transferred this to speaking 312 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:47,280 is 95% mental. We will our voice to do what we 313 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,320 wish it to do. But that being said, we have to 314 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,800 know what like AI, we have to know what commands. 315 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,400 If we don't put the right commands in, we're not going to 316 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,000 get the most efficient response anyway. 317 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:07,360 Yes, yeah, I let me tell you something else. 318 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:11,800 I think that that I was telling you about a a webinar, a really 319 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,920 fun webinar that we did last week. 320 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,120 And it was on working with stakeholders. 321 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:20,120 And we had a a panel of characters who were half dressed 322 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:23,960 for Halloween, half like the stakeholders from like your 323 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,440 nightmares. And one of the things that the 324 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,640 speaker, who's the Jamie Champagne, who's been a guest 325 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,840 here and who's fantastic, one of the things that she said in her 326 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:40,440 approach to this cast of characters was the your purpose 327 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,360 needs to be fixed, but your methods are adaptable. 328 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:51,440 And so that like I wrote that down because that meant like she 329 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:56,960 nailed it with like just that. And I yes, Sir, I feel like 330 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,320 you've got something to add. Well, I mean, the reason I want 331 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,520 to add is because it, I've got these 4 pillars, right? 332 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,480 Intention, breath, tone and connection. 333 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,520 And that feeds right into what Jamie was saying. 334 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,840 If you have a clear intention when you're taking your breath. 335 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,800 That changes how you take the breath and then how you use the 336 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,280 tone as it vibrates over the vocal folds. 337 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:24,440 And those natural vibrations are what connect you to whomever 338 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,160 you're listening to, who's listening to you, right? 339 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:32,840 And so it's been around forever. They're just so many ways to 340 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,680 express it. But one of the things that you 341 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,120 and I talked about in addition to that is I got to when I was 342 00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:43,000 out in, I think it was in Utrecht, because I had more time 343 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,040 to be a part of things. And I was part of Louis and 344 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,840 Imtiaz's murder mystery. And one of the things when I 345 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,240 heard them talk about that, which is similar to what you 346 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:56,520 said, Jamie, as you guys did, is that they created that because 347 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,000 there was something they called death by PowerPoint. 348 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:04,680 And the fact that the tendency and I even noticed it when I 349 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,800 went when I was in Copenhagen, but I was just listening to a 350 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,200 stoic modern stoic week and they had all these really intelligent 351 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,040 academic speakers. But the tendency for them to 352 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:22,920 read off it on a video, one way video was strong. 353 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:26,840 And I didn't remember much, but there was one man who was soft 354 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:31,040 spoken who wasn't really an extroverted personality by my 355 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,840 estimate. And I wrote notes because he 356 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,520 was, he sort of internalized his message. 357 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,120 He wasn't looking at notes. He wasn't looking at a prompter 358 00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:44,760 on a screen. And you know, it it, it takes 359 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:51,640 that kind of intention, as Jamie said, to then adapt and then 360 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,960 trust. Like you I were talking about, 361 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,360 we knew that this was going to go someplace interesting. 362 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,280 Voila. Oh, you should pass. 363 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:04,600 This yeah. Well, and and you know, I think 364 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,800 I think that's just it because you, you also said that a good 365 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,440 portion of it is about being prepared. 366 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,440 And I know business analysis professionals in our audience 367 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,840 today will feel that to their core, like we might over 368 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,280 prepare. But then the problem becomes 369 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:25,360 that we are so prepared that we don't let loose that we, and 370 00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:31,000 it's in that moment of I, I know the topic, I know, you know, I, 371 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,480 I am confident in the skills. I know that I can, I can handle 372 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,160 it. And I'm just going to get in 373 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,960 front of people and I am going to be there in the moment with 374 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,880 them. And where it goes, it goes. 375 00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:49,600 That takes confidence, I think. And you build it by practicing 376 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,840 it and believing in yourself. So that sounds kind of, you 377 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,960 know, warm and touchy feely and I believe it. 378 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,560 But if you set up an iPad or some kind of device and just 379 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,080 start, you know, don't look directly into it, just start 380 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:08,240 talking about what you might say, you gain confidence because 381 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,800 you go, oh, some of that's pretty darn good, right? 382 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,640 If you don't know, the fear of not knowing is pretty strong. 383 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,240 I mean, that idea of faith, believing that you're going to 384 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,600 be able to please, I know this. You know, you get in front of an 385 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,600 orchestra, 500 people have paid lots of money, and the conductor 386 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,520 goes like this. And you're like, OK, I worked on 387 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,040 this. Is it going to come out tonight? 388 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,640 Because it's only the moment that is the crucial part, right? 389 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,360 And that's where I identify with the BA community is I over 390 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:47,840 prepare and I've had to learn to go. 391 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,520 You know what just we said this morning when you said technology 392 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,040 was challenge? Breathe and breath is an amazing 393 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,280 reset if we access that tool. I can't tell you how long I was 394 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,800 a singer and learned about diaphragmatic breathing before I 395 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:08,000 connected it to this kind of thing and realize that when 396 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,800 we're nervous, the flight or freeze takes over and it causes 397 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,480 high breathing, but we can reset it. 398 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,400 That's the part that I forgot was that, oh, I know this. 399 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,400 If I'm aware that I'm doing, Oh my God, Oh my God, inside, even 400 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,400 if it doesn't show physically that there are breath exercises. 401 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,080 When I talk about my blog is a guy by the name of Farinelli who 402 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,720 was a a singer in the 16th century who uses what now is 403 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,440 called box breathing. They've adapted it, but 404 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,720 basically it's practicing how much air pressure you need for 405 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,000 an inhale, how much you release for an exhale, what you do when 406 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:50,040 you suspend. And it can reset you in a way if 407 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,680 you're anxious at all, even when you're about to deliver 408 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:54,600 something. So. 409 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,320 Yes, you know, I do. So I do yoga and I'm, I'm at the 410 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,280 stage of my yoga life where I just want to do the one where 411 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:03,600 you lay on the floor and breathe. 412 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,360 I don't want to do all the stretchy, bendy stuff. 413 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:07,640 You know how? Good. 414 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,720 Can I do yoga? Yeah, yeah, I do yoga. 415 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,080 That's what it looks like these days. 416 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:19,520 And so, you know, they are often trained in breath work and you 417 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,000 know, they talk a lot about when you do that deep breathing, one 418 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,280 of the things it can do is it can stimulate the 419 00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:29,520 parasympathetic, which can help to calm you down. 420 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,960 And in the moment, right, if you're, you're dealing with a 421 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,480 tense situation or something comes up that you didn't plan 422 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,280 for and you start to feel, we all know what that feeling is. 423 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,280 You, we may have a personal, it may be, it may look different, 424 00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:47,920 but you know, for me, I can, it's like my voice starts to go 425 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,440 away. That's that's how I know I'm 426 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,760 starting to have that moment. And I know in that moment I need 427 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,360 to take a bit of silence and I just need a good full deep 428 00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:01,440 breath. And you know, I would encourage 429 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:06,440 business analysis professionals understand what that thing is, 430 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,880 what it feels like when you start feeling a little bit out 431 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,480 of control, and then take that deep breath. 432 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,960 Breath has been over, has been talked about a lot in a certain 433 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,080 way, but basically it's good to reduce that we're an instrument 434 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,840 and how we create sound. It's good to think about that, 435 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,400 not in a a very analytical way, but the idea is that the air 436 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,560 comes over the folds and creates A vibration, right? 437 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:38,000 Like like a read for a clarinet. You know, it's A and a violin is 438 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,240 the one that I equate most of singing because of the strings 439 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,400 that they vibrate and that's what causes it. 440 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,680 But breath is basically if you're thinking about when you 441 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,880 take in air, you're filling up the lungs and then what other 442 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,600 parts of your body react? Not judging that, but noticing 443 00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,640 what reacts when you take a breath. 444 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,240 Does your throat react to your chest? 445 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,120 Does your chest come up? Do you do you think lower in 446 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:06,840 your, you know, your back muscles? 447 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,600 And it's not about judgement of it, as I've heard so often in 448 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,280 when you hear meditative, when people leave meditations, they 449 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,520 say don't think, oh, this is wrong. 450 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,320 I suck at this think. Just notice what you're doing. 451 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,200 And then once you notice it, you can decide for yourself or with 452 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:31,320 someone like me or Jamie or you, is it the most efficient way? 453 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:33,440 Are you getting across that intention? 454 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,200 Is that, you know, is this going to be the most efficient way 455 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,080 rather than I need to be more of this or more of that. 456 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,400 So that's when you talk about self-awareness, it comes back 457 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,840 down and the core is always Brett Harshaw Margaret Harshaw 458 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,840 said problems with vocalism like you losing your voice, that kind 459 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,200 of thing come down to two things. 460 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,080 She said how we take the air and what we do with the air once we 461 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,600 got it. Just those, but you need an 462 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,440 outside because they're so nuanced. 463 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,840 It's helpful to have, but that's really what it because if we 464 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,400 hold, they keep saying hold your breath, it causes you. 465 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,440 And a stakeholder may not consciously notice that, but on 466 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,960 some level they're going to notice that much more than if 467 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,760 you said, oh, I, you know, you didn't say exactly the right 468 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,360 thing, which makes you more human. 469 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,720 And they can oh, good. Oh, good. 470 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,360 OK. That we put a lot of pressure on 471 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:33,360 ourselves, right, in order to communicate correctly. 472 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,360 Yeah. And I feel like what happens is 473 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:43,280 we lose that bit of humanity. So I have done here. 474 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:44,520 I don't know. Did I tell you? 475 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,080 Maybe. I don't know if I told you this. 476 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,280 So a million years ago, when I was a kid, I had a speech 477 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,200 impediment. In fact, I still have a little 478 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,320 bit of it. But I did a lot of, I did a lot 479 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,400 of work with a speech therapist when I was a kid. 480 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,960 And every once in a while when I start talking real fast, you can 481 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,880 kind of hear it. But I got used to speaking in 482 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,040 front of people, and now I've completely forgotten where I'm 483 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:09,840 going with this. Well. 484 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:16,400 It'll it'll it. It but, but I think that 485 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:22,400 exercise of feeling like I'm not a good speaker and then and, and 486 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,480 knowing that I'm like I'm working with a speech therapist. 487 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,920 So clearly I've got an issue by the way, I was like 6 or 7, but 488 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,800 that having to speak in front of somebody just got me out of my 489 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:41,160 head because I was doing that speaking in front of somebody 490 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,280 that was going to help me and who was going to guide me and 491 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:51,760 who wanted the best for me. And so that thinking about, you 492 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,960 know, getting caught up in the what we aren't doing, what we 493 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,520 aren't, what we aren't doing correctly, what we aren't saying 494 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,480 that's correct can be a lot of pressure on us when really, if 495 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,240 we just I know what I know and I'm going to communicate it to 496 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,960 you. And if it sounds weird, let's 497 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,560 have a laugh. Let's let's have a discussion. 498 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:15,840 Exactly. I mean, what you talk about with 499 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,560 your speech therapist is the good ones, and I'm sure this one 500 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:25,080 was or a good BA is about, not just is about taking technical 501 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,960 concepts and listening to the person talk and figure out how 502 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,200 to best communicate that in a language that is going to 503 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,800 connect or interact with them, right? 504 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:43,040 Acronyms or technical language can sometimes distance people if 505 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,000 they don't know what it means, particularly for those of us who 506 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,440 are so used to using these terms that they are second nature for 507 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:51,960 us. You know, kind of like the 508 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,440 beginner's mind thing. Every time I teach someone who 509 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,680 tells me that they oh, that they hate their voice or they were 510 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,840 told they couldn't do this, it's because they've been repeating 511 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,320 that story over and over in their head. 512 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,120 And what I can help them do is figure out how to transfer that 513 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:16,160 to a language that is useful and can get them to whatever their 514 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,520 intention is. I mean, I usually have people 515 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,240 tell me First off, what is it that you want to get out of 516 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,040 this? You know, like a stakeholder. 517 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,960 What, what, what's the reason for what do you want to find 518 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,800 out? And then work backwards. 519 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,680 And course, just they call it create backward design, that 520 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,360 kind of a thing. And I found that that that's, 521 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,520 that's that's pretty useful to just go, you know, in the trust 522 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,280 that you can't, you can't know everything. 523 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,840 I mean, we try. I mean, I like to do as much, I 524 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,520 want to be prepared, but. But you're, you're right, we've 525 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,560 got to give ourselves a little bit of grace because we can't 526 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,000 know everything. We can be prepared and we can 527 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,360 still get a question we don't know the answer to. 528 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,640 And then we can say, I'm not sure what the answer is. 529 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,560 We got to get comfortable with that. 530 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,480 And that may make us feel a certain way because we've got to 531 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,840 admit that. But trust is built in those 532 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,600 spaces where people see you as on the same team and that you're 533 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,160 human and you're willing to just be a little vulnerable. 534 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:19,680 And that we might learn something. 535 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,520 I'm always excited when people that I work with come up with 536 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,720 something that I didn't know about or that connected the dots 537 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,880 of what I said in a way that it never occurred to me. 538 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,600 And I'm like, I want you know that there's a book called Steel 539 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,280 Like an Artist. And it's the idea that we borrow 540 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,200 things from like I listen to you and I learned so much from 541 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,200 watching you facilitate and go, OK, these are things that I want 542 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,960 in my own style. It doesn't mean that I want to 543 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,920 imitate Susan. But there if there are aspects, 544 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,760 if I can identify them, that's kind of what I'm good at after 545 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,640 all these years is diagnosing how to say it in sort of concise 546 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,120 terms and help that that's helpful when you're when you're, 547 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,680 when you're working with people who think that they don't know 548 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,480 or are intimidated by whatever your title is. 549 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,160 You know, they think I've heard, I've heard the stories about BAS 550 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,440 and stakeholders. It's like, oh, they don't, they 551 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,200 want us. They never answer our calls and. 552 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,160 Right, right. They, they don't know what I do 553 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,680 or any of that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's, I think that is 554 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,440 very common. Well, hey, let's see. 555 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,560 So I did. So we we are Live Today and I 556 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,160 think I added a little banner at one point to ask any questions 557 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,760 if anybody had any. Let's see, let's see what we've 558 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,680 got. I've I've grabbed a couple of 559 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:35,560 things. Let's see. 560 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,480 All right, so we've got Christy. Practice makes all the 561 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,240 difference, she says. I've learned, I've learned that 562 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,240 the hard way. That's anything you want to do. 563 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,960 Well, you got to practice. And it has to be intentional 564 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,680 practice because I remember my undergrad days when I was at 565 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,280 Cleveland to the music, there'd be people who'd spend four or 566 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,480 five hours in a practice room. The the time and what you get 567 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:04,240 from it, you know, it exercises should come with, OK, here's 568 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,840 what I want to get out of this. And being intentional. 569 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,360 It could be 5 minutes. You know it if if you're 570 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,400 thoughtful about it and you really sort of spend some time 571 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,880 being self aware. So, you know, and I had a 572 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,679 graduate student once who said to me, oh, do I have to know 573 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,679 what the words mean every single time? 574 00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:27,080 Do I have to practice this? And I said, yeah. 575 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,280 And what's more, you have to learn. 576 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:33,400 You have to find a way to enjoy that that process. 577 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:34,360 I do. I love it. 578 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:39,920 I, you know, I love, I love the, the end result, but the sort of 579 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,920 the beginning part, the structuring, the figuring out 580 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,320 the plan, the thinking about how I'm going to practice it in, in 581 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,440 bites is sometimes frustrating, but almost always enjoyable for 582 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,360 me now. But it took me a while to get 583 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,000 there. You, I mean, you're making me 584 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,080 think about what I love about dance. 585 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,600 And because like you also practices is an essential part 586 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,880 of what we do. I mean, you for years probably 587 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,840 do a lot of building techniques. I'm doing lots of small 588 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,320 movements because when I put them all together into 589 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,200 choreography, I want to do them well. 590 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,840 I want to do them without hurting myself. 591 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,520 I want to do them in the way that that they are functionally 592 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,600 intended to move. When I get to the stage of 593 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:31,400 learning choreography for me now what I'm doing is Yep, I'm going 594 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,920 to need a couple of a couple of go throughs where I'm just going 595 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,440 to get the choreography down. And that for me, that's always 596 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,280 three times. I just need three times right 597 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,560 and. The key thing is 3 times seems 598 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,040 to be for members. And I kind of get it in my 599 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,480 muscles and then I can start to listen to the music. 600 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,360 I can start to listen to the words of the music. 601 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,960 And I can then begin to put my own imprint on that because I 602 00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:03,760 might be doing a way, a move a particular way, because that's 603 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,960 what my training is. But I might do that move very 604 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,800 differently if I'm listening to some Latin music or if I'm, if 605 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,840 I'm doing something to hip hop. The style is very different. 606 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,520 And so I see. But but you got to be able to 607 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,320 love all that stuff in the middle where you're putting it 608 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,600 together. And the thing that you bring up 609 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,520 the, you know, for example, I, when I moved to France, I 610 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,760 learned that, you know, of course plie means to bend. 611 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,400 You know, I would see it on post office, new plie pod. 612 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,880 Do not bend the envelope. But I classical dance ballet. 613 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,240 And I thought, OK, why do these people study bending? 614 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:44,720 They know how to bend. But it's these small actions 615 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,800 that help you be more expressive and commutative with with your 616 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,760 body. And that's the same thing that's 617 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,040 true with voice. We don't have to spend time 618 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,920 thinking about how we phonate. We know how to make sound. 619 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,520 What we need to spend time doing is directing that sound towards 620 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,760 a specific or creative intention. 621 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,280 And and that's super important to remember because when you see 622 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,280 these listicles on these articles that list the five top 623 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,560 ways to be a good communicator, not they're not, they're 624 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:23,040 wonderful tips, but they're not contextualized and each one so 625 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,040 individualizing it for your skill set. 626 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,760 And I think a lot of this can be done, each of us with ourselves. 627 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,000 I mean, I think people aren't you've, you said this in the 628 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,640 beginning. I think people know more about 629 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,480 how to communicate, particularly if you listen to somebody talk 630 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,120 about someone they've heard. But the objectivity is what 631 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:44,800 listening to the recordings helps you do. 632 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,680 It isn't just, you know, learning the skills, but 633 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,960 learning to champion that unique vibration that you have in your 634 00:37:52,960 --> 00:38:00,400 vocalism that only you have. Yes, yeah, and that's and that's 635 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,400 you're so right. I mean it's it's in that's why I 636 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,600 think it is. We do need to listen to 637 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,680 ourselves if you can your. Father's ask you, why shouldn't 638 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:15,880 we? That is true if. 639 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,680 If nothing you've said today is true, that is the most true 640 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:25,360 thing you've said today. All right, let's see. 641 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:30,520 OK, I here, here you go. So Vadim gives us a little more 642 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,520 to think about. So you might get caught being 643 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,720 over self aware of what and how you say things. 644 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:37,520 People will forget 90% of what you say by the next day. 645 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,160 They will not forget what you made them feel. 646 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,160 So true. So if you make an impact with 647 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,680 your message, nobody will remember how you delivered the 648 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,840 message. Yeah, exactly. 649 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:56,120 There's there's truth to that, but if you don't overload with 650 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,400 how much you say, like you said, if this is the one thing I'm 651 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:05,040 going to remember that you said today, Elias, the feeling part 652 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,080 is wonderful, but that comes from the intention and that 653 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,000 comes from clearly communicating. 654 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,160 You know, it isn't about just remembering every single thing 655 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,880 you wanted to say because that's a lot, right? 656 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:24,200 And that's helpful to remember. I have these this list of things 657 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,840 that I wanted to say to you today. 658 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,040 Will I say them all? Is it? 659 00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:30,680 Is that really the important thing? 660 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,800 The important thing is maybe a couple of things will spark 661 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,960 someone's curiosity to ask more questions. 662 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,520 And. And so, you know, I would invite 663 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:47,000 the audience are, you know, the questions about how you view 664 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,080 your own voice. Do you like your sound? 665 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,120 Do you, have you listened to yourself? 666 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,280 Do you know what you sound like? Do you enjoy it? 667 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,440 Yeah. No one's biting, huh? 668 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,880 I, I guess not that's a that's a question for you guys. 669 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,160 Well, on that note, what I was going to say is probably for 670 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,240 those that are watching watching our live stream today, they will 671 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:12,440 see that down below your title. You have shared your blog. 672 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:20,360 I have gone through I when when I see your LinkedIn post I I. 673 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,240 I dive in and take a look and I was going through a couple 674 00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:28,160 recently and I think what business analysis professionals 675 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:33,000 who find you will notice is that you talk about a lot of things 676 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,080 that we think about and then you talk about them slightly 677 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,400 differently. So highly recommend. 678 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,800 There it is. For our YouTube listeners 679 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,480 watchers, I'm going to drop this over into YouTube, and for the 680 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,520 LinkedIn folks, I'll make sure that you get this link or if you 681 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,560 can see it, grab it. There are two things. 682 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,120 The thing that's on there is away from LinkedIn is a blog 683 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,720 that I've been doing weekly insights that I started. 684 00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:01,880 I can't believe today will be the 64th. 685 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,440 I've also do it on Wednesdays. And then I started to notice 686 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,920 with LinkedIn that you could create an addition and I've been 687 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,560 duplicating them with the LinkedIn edition where people 688 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,520 can actually subscribe to be notified when a new, when a new 689 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,720 article drops if they're interested in it. 690 00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:23,720 So either way, but even if you see it on Thursday, it's still 691 00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:25,440 the same thing that it is on Wednesday. 692 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,280 So that's just mostly for me. I mean, some of the topics that 693 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,960 that you've covered are things like bias and you've talked, you 694 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:40,000 talk about tone, you talk about breath and and how you know that 695 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:45,600 can draw the connections between the words like it's it is it is 696 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,560 the stuff that we do in communication, But it but it 697 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,480 really takes it to a deeper level and it gets it away from 698 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,480 just the logistics of communication and to really 699 00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:00,320 being a good authentic communicator, which is different 700 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,800 it. Is it is I mean, and lately I've 701 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:09,840 encountered doing work, I'm creating a reflection journal 702 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,320 that takes a specific Stoic philosopher, Epictetus and 703 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,800 connects it to voice concepts. The thing I liked about 704 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,600 Epictetus is that he he was born into a background where he 705 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,000 really had to figure stuff out. And his, his, his sayings are 706 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,680 practical. And one of the ones that I wrote 707 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:32,200 down today to help bolster me to remember these more technical is 708 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,560 don't just speak your training. Embody it, live it. 709 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,520 And yeah, that's good. But these these are technical 710 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,240 ways to make that happen. You know, to think about, you 711 00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:47,480 know, we heard this as little children think before you speak. 712 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:52,080 You know, that concept of taking it might feel like an hour. 713 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,040 I've you've been on the stage as a theater person, but I remember 714 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,720 when people drop a line and it might seem it might only be a 715 00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:02,560 second, but for them it feels like an hour. 716 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,600 Yes. How pausing is If you're 717 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,120 preparing something for a stakeholder, it's OK to have 718 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:16,880 pauses because that lets the idea land and let's give people 719 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,160 a chance to speak. Maybe you do. 720 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,640 You don't do 90% of what you had to say. 721 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:28,080 Maybe you only do 70 and the other 30% is them if they choose 722 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,280 to, but it's easy to stream. I remember one time we talked, 723 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,520 you were like, oh, Elias, I'm breathless after talking to you 724 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,840 because I get so excited, right? And it, it can be an overload, 725 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:40,240 right? I get that with myself. 726 00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:42,640 I practice that. I mean, particularly if I'm 727 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,600 excited and passionate about something, that sort of 728 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,840 extraversion comes out in that way where it wouldn't 729 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,000 necessarily in another way. So. 730 00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:57,080 Yes, totally agree. All right, well, you're not 731 00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,240 going to believe this. We're we are coming up at the 732 00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:04,960 end of our time together. Not not forever, just for now 733 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,200 that's. What if I appreciate the 734 00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:11,240 opportunity? Because what was helpful about 735 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,440 coming to Copenhagen was seeing that, because often when people 736 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,840 hear you're an opera singer, they only think about the 737 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,880 performative aspects. Oh, I don't want to. 738 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,960 I don't want to sing. These skills could also be good 739 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,000 for karaoke. You know, it's useful. 740 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,560 And I think that karaoke has, if people transferred those who do 741 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,240 that, who aren't performers, if they transferred the skills that 742 00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:36,040 they're getting from being good at that to something like they 743 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,800 might be doing at work. But it was happy. 744 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,440 I was very happy to see when I was there in May that many of 745 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,160 your colleagues and the people that you work with found this 746 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,360 intrinsically valuable, not just as an external performative. 747 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,840 Oh, Elias. He's our opera singer. 748 00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:00,280 Well, because they can see that it is really practical. 749 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,480 And I think because you are so good at putting it into plain 750 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,080 language, it's not a bunch of a bunch a bunch of fancy 751 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,360 techniques. It's like it's it's real stuff 752 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,720 that people can do that benefits how they communicate. 753 00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:18,320 Whether you know, we talked earlier about right, it's the 754 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,640 same instrument. Maybe sometimes I'm using it to 755 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,440 communicate technical things or maybe sometimes I'm using it to 756 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,480 sing. It's the same instrument. 757 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,480 And those techniques, if we are intentional and we are self 758 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,560 aware and we can employ them, they can help to make us better 759 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,240 communicators, whatever our music is. 760 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,360 Exactly. Every language has its own 761 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:42,720 music. You hit it on the head when I 762 00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:47,400 moved to France to be curious about how we sound and that will 763 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,560 make us better at listening to others. 764 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:54,400 The more we know about our own communication style, the more, 765 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,520 the more grace we give to others, especially if they're 766 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,080 speaking in a way that maybe we, we, we don't agree with or we 767 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,160 find it. It's confusing to us, but it 768 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,880 gives us a chance to do that. And Margaret Harshaw, who I 769 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:13,160 mentioned quite a lot, was the latest teacher I had and she 770 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,360 spoke like this. This is where I learned it. 771 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,840 You know, lots of people can throw, I'll tell you in the 772 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,040 voice world, they can throw jargon at you. 773 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,560 And it's very intimidating. Italian words like passago and 774 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,440 opajo and you know, and voucher D taste of voucher D, you know, 775 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,280 it can be kind of, it can be kind of intimidating, but all of 776 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,280 those things can be said in, in a way that they're, they're our 777 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:39,760 body. We understand them. 778 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,200 We just have to know what we know. 779 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,800 Yes, exactly. All right. 780 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,320 And with that, I want to thank you again. 781 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:54,320 I feel certain you're going to be hanging around our our sphere 782 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,920 a little more often. So folks can find you on 783 00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,880 LinkedIn, they can find you on that blog. 784 00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:04,360 Highly recommend. And if you see his name as a 785 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,280 keynote or as a speaker, in any event, you're going to like go 786 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,920 because he's going to he's going to take you in a different 787 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,080 direction. It's not your usual business 788 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,200 analysis talk. So definitely you got to check 789 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,560 out Elias. Well, a big hug from Duluth, MN, 790 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:25,120 where we're starting to get our warm wet, our cool, our cool 791 00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,840 fall weather. And I wish you, I wish you a 792 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,640 excellent day and thank you so much for allowing me to come and 793 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,520 talk to talk to you. And it's a pleasure. 794 00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:37,160 Anyway, it feels like just we're on the phone. 795 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,880 It's awesome. I know, I know. 796 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:44,360 All right, Well, thank you so much and we'll see you in a 797 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,200 minute. Hang around for me. 798 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,520 And that is the end of our session today. 799 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:55,200 Hopefully we've got you thinking about your voice and how you can 800 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,680 be more intentional with it as you are communicating. 801 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,520 When we see you in two weeks from today, we're going to be 802 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:04,960 talking about human skills in the tech world. 803 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,120 For this, we're going to go completely to the opposite end 804 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,160 of the spectrum. And I've got it, Microsoft MVP 805 00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,920 who does a lot of talks about how human skills are essential 806 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,520 for that tech work. I hope that you will join us in 807 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,440 two weeks. Thanks again. 808 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,880 Bye, bye. If you're hearing this, you made 809 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,160 it to the end of the episode. Thanks for listening. 810 00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,600 Do you have any questions, comments or thoughts about 811 00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,480 today's topic? We'd love to hear them. 812 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,920 Drop us a review or leave a note in the comments. 813 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,120 Then like, subscribe or share this podcast if you like what 814 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,040 you heard. And hey, you can help us shape 815 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,320 future episodes. What do you want to know more 816 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,480 about? Send us an e-mail at Live at 817 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,320 iiba.org with your ideas. See you again on our next 818 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:46,880 episode.