1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,240 If you don't know, I'm a little bit of a nerd. 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,600 Welcome to Business Analysis Live. 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,840 I'm your host, Susan Moore, community engagement manager 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,760 with the International Institute of Business Analysis. 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,360 I explore topics with industry guest about the work of business 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,840 analysis professionals and how their work helps organizations 7 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,720 achieve better outcomes. And Yep, we take your questions 8 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,080 too. Thanks for listening. 9 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:30,280 Let's get started. When it comes to the business 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,640 analysis body of knowledge, what we call the babock, probably one 11 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,960 of my favorite nerdy chapters is business analysis planning and 12 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:41,600 monitoring. And you might ask why. 13 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,760 And the reason is because I've done a lot of commercial off the 14 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,760 shelf projects over the course of my career. 15 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:53,960 And inevitably that is at the very beginning of every project 16 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,880 that I do. And what I've discovered over 17 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,280 the years is that's not always the first thing that people 18 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,280 think about when they start a project, Business analysis, 19 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,600 planning and monitoring. Not only commercial off the 20 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,880 shelf projects benefit from that, but really any kind of 21 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,480 project that you do as a business analysis professional, 22 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:17,200 any kind of project benefits from that. 23 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,760 And I'm going to leave you with a question that our guest today 24 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,000 is going to help us to answer and that is if you are not 25 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,480 planning your business analysis work, who is? 26 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,880 Are you leaving it to chance? Well, today we're going to be 27 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,040 talking about why plan your business analysis. 28 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,720 And my guest for that topic is Kathy Burkage. 29 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,320 Welcome to the stage, Kathy. Lovely to be here Susan and 30 00:01:45,320 --> 00:01:47,800 great to see you again. Talking about something I 31 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,640 totally agree with. Yeah. 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,600 And you know, you and I had a chance to meet virtually way 33 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,640 back during the pandemic and at that time when we were talking 34 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,240 about stakeholder engagement. And this is definitely an 35 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,200 extension. This is part of business 36 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:04,800 analysis planning and monitoring. 37 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:10,039 So I know that you also geek out a little bit to this, so I am 38 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:11,760 happy to have birds of a feather here. 39 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,720 Hey, before we get into today's topic, I'd like for you to 40 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,880 introduce yourself. So for those folks who may not 41 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,360 have seen you and because you are around the world, you are a 42 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,760 global traveler for business analysis, if you will tell folks 43 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,840 a little bit about yourself. Thanks. 44 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,880 So I'm in based in Melbourne, Australia and you can tell by 45 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:33,840 the accent. I started doing business 46 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:38,080 analysis work in the 1990s before IBA was formed, before 47 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,360 the word business analyst was even a title. 48 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:43,600 It was analyst programmer back then. 49 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,840 And yes, I did come from a technical software development 50 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,520 background, but my passion was always working with my users, 51 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,120 working with my stakeholders, understanding their real needs 52 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,280 and making sure solutions align to it. 53 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,720 Now that's of course what we do as business analysts and OF in 54 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:03,000 2003 that became the way that we define business analysis. 55 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,000 I've been working in business analysis in multiple 56 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,920 organizations, predominantly in the telecommunications and 57 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:12,080 utility sectors here in Australia. 58 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,640 I helped form a BA Community of Practice as part of a PMO and 59 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:18,160 one of the government departments. 60 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,720 I write about business analysis, I blog about it, I've talked 61 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,040 about it forever, and I've performed it so a lot for so 62 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,720 many, so many years. I'd say at least 20 years as a 63 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,440 BAI also trained business analysis to people going through 64 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,080 their certifications through the IIBA and of course, teaching 65 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,280 specific tools and techniques of business analysis, even if 66 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,720 they're not going through the official certification 67 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,480 processes. So I'm a passionate business 68 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,960 analyst and I love contributing to the community and helping 69 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:52,560 other BAS up skill and develop. As you were introducing 70 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,080 yourself, you were reminding me there's an insurance company 71 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,400 here in the United States. And to paraphrase their tagline, 72 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,680 it's something like, we know a lot of things because we've seen 73 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,440 a lot of things. And I feel like that's what you 74 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,120 bring to the business analysis profession and to all of the 75 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,640 talks that you do. You know a lot of this because 76 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,080 you've you've seen a lot of this. 77 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:19,360 And my guess is the reason that you get really excited and 78 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,839 really want to talk about business analysis planning is 79 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:26,880 because you've probably seen projects go sideways and you 80 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,760 probably know a lot of things about what could prevent that. 81 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,600 So let's talk a little bit about maybe this first question. 82 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,720 So why do you think planning gets overlooked in the work that 83 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,680 we do? And it does too often. 84 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,920 There's two primary reasons, I think for number 1 is our 85 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,920 project manager and or our sponsors and stakeholders just 86 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,200 telling us we need this now, go forth and get going. 87 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,280 And they don't really recognise that we need to do any planning. 88 00:05:00,280 --> 00:05:03,360 They just think you're ABA, you know what to do, go, go forth 89 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,560 and do it. And BAS often we're not given 90 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,560 that opportunity. We're not given the time or the 91 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,520 authorisation. I don't know if that's the right 92 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,280 word to say, OK, I just want to spend a moment here making sure 93 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:19,440 I know how we're going to go about doing the BA work for your 94 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,280 project. They're almost ramming us into 95 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,560 just getting started and as BAS, especially those who haven't 96 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,080 maybe come across some of the planning techniques and tools 97 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,480 that we, we might talk about today, they might feel pressured 98 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,760 and not realise, OK, well, I'll just do it per what the PMS 99 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,000 telling me, because the PM might just have a task on their Gantt 100 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,120 chart saying business analysis requirements, you know, or 101 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,040 create the BRD or whatever the case might be, create the 102 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,520 backlog, write some user stories. 103 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:54,120 They will just allocate us a task without a task for business 104 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,760 analysis. So that's the primary reason in 105 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,640 my mind, what I've seen, what I talked to other BAS, they're 106 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,680 told we don't get the opportunity to do this because 107 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,840 we're not supported in performing the work. 108 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,000 So that's half of the problem. The other half of the problem is 109 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,360 that many BAS simply don't know what should we be planning in 110 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,640 the first place. I'm not a project manager. 111 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,440 I'm not planning the project. So what is business analysis 112 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,360 planning? What does that mean? 113 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,640 What should I be doing? Am I duplicating work? 114 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,560 So they're probably not confident in what's needed for 115 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,680 us to kind of go forth and know what we're going to do. 116 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,320 It doesn't need to be extensive. It doesn't need to take hours, 117 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,080 but it gives us the opportunity to, as they say, you know, for 118 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,080 failing to plan is planning to fail, as Benjamin Franklin says. 119 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,160 And so opportunity to sort of, hey, let's step back before we 120 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,920 set ourselves up for a disaster rather than success. 121 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,440 Yeah. Is you were giving that answer, 122 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,080 I was. This is probably another 123 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,720 question that maybe members of our audience are thinking about 124 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,240 today. Won't the project manager create 125 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,480 the business analysis plan? You said don't count on it 126 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,320 because it's different business. A business analysis plan would 127 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:09,440 be different from the overall project plan that gets created. 128 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,800 It could be rolled into the project management plan, but it 129 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,760 really, I think needs to come from the business analysis 130 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,320 professional. We often say that business 131 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,560 analysis is a project within a project, and that's how I've 132 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,120 always viewed it. You know, when we think of the 133 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,680 project manager and the BA, we should be, you know, working 134 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,600 symbiotically. But the project manager is 135 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,960 coordinating all the different resources and stakeholders that 136 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:37,600 come together to build a project. 137 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,320 We're coordinating all the requirements and solutions to 138 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,800 ensure that what the project implements is the right thing. 139 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,960 So our part is a big part of defining what the project 140 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,200 manager is going to deliver, but they almost never will give us 141 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,840 planning as a task. They'll just say do the 142 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,240 requirements as a task, not the do the BA planning. 143 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,680 I don't think I've in any of my projects ever seen a project 144 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:08,200 manager or any project plan that has business analysis planning 145 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,400 as a task from anywhere at this. Yes, just do it. 146 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,720 Or ad hoc maybe. Yeah. 147 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,880 And I think because we often do similar kinds of projects over 148 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,640 and over, we probably know what it entails. 149 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,040 But if you are doing something that you've never done before, 150 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,480 you're doing a commercial off the shelf project, if you're 151 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,600 doing something that involves a lot of people, a lot of 152 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,559 individual things, I think it's really important. 153 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,159 And you're right, it doesn't have to be a formal phase. 154 00:08:39,159 --> 00:08:42,200 It doesn't have to be a formal document, but it should 155 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,920 encompass a number of areas of just about how you are going to 156 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,440 do your work. Before you and I got started 157 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,280 today, I was thinking about when I started projects. 158 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,640 Inevitably I would get stakeholders who would say what 159 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,600 do you need me to do? How long do you need me to do 160 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,240 it? That gets answered with a 161 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,320 business analysis plan. Absolutely. 162 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,440 And something we again overlooked too often and so do 163 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,440 the project managers. There's this weird thing that 164 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,800 I've noticed in many projects that our stakeholders time is 165 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,720 not chargeable and we don't sort of count on how much we're 166 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,200 expecting from them. And there's this weird thing 167 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,400 that especially depending on your organization's, if you're 168 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,200 using cost centers and things like that for your projects, 169 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:31,640 then stakeholders attending meetings or stakeholders doing 170 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,320 workshops to, to do process mapping or requirements or story 171 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,600 mapping or whatever we're doing, their time is not scheduled. 172 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,960 But if we do ABA plan, we can start saying, I'm going to have 173 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,440 these kinds of workshops, I'm going to be creating these kinds 174 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,040 of artefacts and these are the inputs I need. 175 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,240 And once we understand that, we can understand how much time we 176 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,080 are expecting from our stakeholders. 177 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,920 They apparently aren't sitting around waiting for us all day 178 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,200 every day. They're busy, they want to know 179 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,360 what's happening and they want to know how much time. 180 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:04,880 So forewarned is forearmed so we can at least say, look, this 181 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,840 project is going to be X, this is what I'm planning to do and 182 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:09,880 it's going to happen in these kinds of time frames. 183 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,120 Now, of course, this is not something we do independently. 184 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,120 We certainly will be talking with our project managers about 185 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,040 this stuff as well. So you're answering a question 186 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,800 that I think members of our audience will have, which is how 187 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,040 does planning impact stakeholder engagement and project outcomes. 188 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,800 And stakeholder engagement is a part of the plan. 189 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,240 But also I think having a plan let's your stakeholders know 190 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,720 that you are prepared and ready for them. 191 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,600 You can answer those questions and that can build trust and 192 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,720 goodwill and you're not wasting their time. 193 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,840 That's a good thing for stakeholder engagement. 194 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,360 Absolutely. And and again, often project 195 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,560 managers will say, I do stakeholder analysis, I do a 196 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,960 stakeholder engagement plan, I do a communication plan. 197 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:58,320 Fantastic. Thank you, project manager. 198 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,320 I'm glad that you're doing it for the project overall, but I'm 199 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,440 going to do 1 specifically for business analysis activities, 200 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:10,480 which I'm happy to be part of your overall plan, but I need to 201 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,480 engage stakeholders independently of you because 202 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,880 you're probably doing more coordination activities. 203 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,600 I'm going to be doing deep dives into their root cause, into 204 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,360 their process flows, into the underlying problems. 205 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,320 And these are things that I'm going to be needing to do. 206 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:28,760 You know, it's not, it's BA work. 207 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,600 So yes, I can input that. But I need to think about, well, 208 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,320 when I'm talking to my stakeholders, you're looking at 209 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,440 it from the project execution point of view. 210 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,760 I'm looking at it as the solution implementation point of 211 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,280 view and their needs. So there are, when you do your 212 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,040 analysis, you're doing it through a different lens than me 213 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,600 as ABA looking at the analysis of my stakeholders from the BA 214 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,120 lens. So yes, they're both needed. 215 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,120 They are slightly different. Yeah. 216 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,200 And I think having those conversations with your project 217 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,040 manager, I mean, we have talked so far in this conversation, 218 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,560 we've talked about a project manager at each stage. 219 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,560 And I think sometimes for business analysis professionals, 220 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,480 you may be working with a project manager who really 221 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,600 doesn't understand what you do. They may not understand that 222 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,440 there's a component of planning that you can contribute. 223 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,640 I think it starts with good relationships with your project 224 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,080 managers just to let them know what you can contribute, what 225 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,160 you see as needed for them. Also to have a really good 226 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,040 project plan, make sure that you are, if you're not being asked 227 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,320 for input, my advice is make sure that you're talking with 228 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,880 your project manager because they may be getting these 229 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,240 questions like how long? Who are you going to need? 230 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:46,520 How long are you going to need them? 231 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,160 What is it that you're going to produce? 232 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,520 Right? And if they don't know that you 233 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,040 can contribute that, then project managers either may say, 234 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,760 don't worry about it, or they may make something up. 235 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,480 And then you really do get boxed in to. 236 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:03,320 This is how I have to work. And the other thing that I've 237 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,680 seen way too much is 2 two big things. 238 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:10,720 Sometimes ABA doesn't have a project manager. 239 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:15,280 We're being told to go forth and do some work and implement some 240 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:18,080 enhancements. Maybe they're not huge projects. 241 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,000 Maybe it's this minor enhancement, in which case we're 242 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,040 helping coordinate the work without that formal project 243 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,960 construct. So when there's no PM, well, 244 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,040 it's up to us anyhow. So in that case, we are we're in 245 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,120 a bit of a hat of APM. At the same time, the other 246 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,360 thing that I have heard, and it was appalling to me, but I'm 247 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,040 sure some of you might have heard this, there's a perception 248 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,880 out there that project managers can do business analysis work, 249 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,640 the business analysis and BAS, but BAS can't do project 250 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,400 management work. I'm like, I think it's more 251 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:54,720 likely to be the other way around. 252 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,320 I think the project managers completely underestimate what BA 253 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,800 work is because a project manager will probably just say 254 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,200 pick a solution, get it in, whereas we're going to say what 255 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,520 is the right solution in the 1st place, which I don't think they 256 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,560 do. So yes, there's a lot of 257 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:13,160 misconception from the project managers depending. 258 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,600 Some are better than others. Of course, they're not all evil. 259 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,960 Some of them simply don't understand the business 260 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,160 analysis, the value that we bring to their projects. 261 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,600 They just don't understand it. So therefore they undervalue it, 262 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,640 and therefore they just see us as a resource churning out a 263 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,760 document. Yeah, that's right. 264 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,160 Yeah, that's right. And so sometimes, that's why 265 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,760 they sometimes don't ask us for how are you going to do what 266 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,240 you're going to produce? They're just going to assume 267 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,760 Susan's going to write requirements, therefore she just 268 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,840 needs three weeks, because how long can it take to write a 269 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,000 document? Not the case at all. 270 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,920 There's tons of stuff. So you know, we've been talking 271 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:55,120 about what a project of a business analysis plan looks 272 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,400 like. I bet some folks out there are 273 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,520 thinking what is a good business analysis plan actually look 274 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,400 like? And so I know that you this is 275 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,560 something that you have not only been thinking about, but you've 276 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,920 been talking about it and you have built something. 277 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,040 I don't know if you would call it a plan. 278 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:19,000 I think you call it a canvas. Maybe we take a look at at your 279 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:24,480 canvas concept and then we can maybe talk through the kinds of 280 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,360 things that you think a business analysis professional should be 281 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:33,600 collecting, thinking about whatever as part of their 282 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,480 business analysis plan. I think that would be great to 283 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,680 share with you. So we know that in the business 284 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,840 analysis body of knowledge, our favorite Big Orange book, 285 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,760 there's a whole chapter and a whole knowledge area dedicated 286 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,920 to business analysis, planning and monitoring. 287 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,720 So if you're like me and I love my Baboch and I study it and of 288 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,800 course I train others in it, when you read that chapter, it's 289 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,680 quite overwhelming. And for ABA, who's perhaps new 290 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,360 to business analysis or you know, not sure of the whole what 291 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,040 do I need to do here, it talks a lot about the tasks and the 292 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,840 techniques like the the bad box got the knowledge area. 293 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,520 And the knowledge area has five tasks. 294 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,320 And those five tasks can be done by all these techniques. 295 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,400 And you'll read through it with all that text and all those 296 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,440 references and you'll just sit there and say, where do I start? 297 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,880 And that's how I viewed it when I train it, when I talk about it 298 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,040 to trainees, when I talk about it to project managers, they 299 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:33,440 just go, well, what does that mean? 300 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,960 So all I've done is really looked at what we need to do as 301 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,240 part of what it's telling us in the Bablock and creating a 302 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,280 template or a canvas. I mean, canvases are more trendy 303 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:46,920 than templates, but that's all it is. 304 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,040 And I'm just going to share the screen. 305 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,600 I don't know if you're going to put that up there. 306 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:56,120 So what what it is, it's really talking about the nine elements 307 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,240 we need to really think about to be sure that we're covering the 308 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,280 business analysis, planning concepts altogether. 309 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,599 Now, sometimes people might look at this and say, well, that's 310 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,680 what the project manager does. But once again, we need to look 311 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,800 at it with the BA lens. A few of the things along the 312 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:17,400 top really should be from the project management plan or the 313 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,079 project business case, or they should come from somebody else. 314 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,040 But as a BA, we often can't think about things like the 315 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,160 problem or the opportunity. So the first element I've got 316 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,800 there is being clear about the problem. 317 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,920 So what is the problem or opportunity being addressed 318 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,320 again? Is it something being fixed or 319 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:37,760 are we something that we're improving? 320 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,320 We talk about it's background now as ABA. 321 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:45,520 This may be already documented, but sometimes we might need to 322 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,360 investigate this because we can't do planning and or scoping 323 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:52,560 and or requirement solicitation without clarity on the 324 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,760 background of the scope, how big it is and how long it's been 325 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,840 there. So this may or may not be cut 326 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,600 and paste from somewhere else or maybe something we need to go 327 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,200 out and reconfirm, and we're not necessarily reinventing the 328 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,440 wheel here, but we're just making sure we've got clarity on 329 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,040 what it is that we're trying to achieve in the first place. 330 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:19,560 The next element is scope. Now this is, you know, scope 331 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,760 just seems to be a dirty word in projects. 332 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,880 I don't know why things are going to change. 333 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,160 Your requirements are going to change, your stakeholders are 334 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:28,840 going to change, your priorities are going to change. 335 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,480 We know this happens. That's why a jail was born. 336 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,240 But even if it isn't, we know that we manage these changes. 337 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:40,280 But scope in this sense is really a high level expectation 338 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:44,880 of what is changing, what is being modified and what is not, 339 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,240 what's clearly included and excluded. 340 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,840 We're only doing the HR system. We're not touching finance, 341 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,360 we're not touching the website. So it's really kind of putting 342 00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:57,640 some boundaries, broad boundaries around the 343 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,960 requirements set, not the specific requirements, the 344 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,400 specific requirements are going to be what we manage, but the 345 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,080 set of requirements. Are we looking at change 346 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,600 management requirements? Are we looking at or is the 347 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,880 change manager going to do that sort of work? 348 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,040 And some organisations don't have a change manager and it's 349 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,280 often left to the BAS to do some of that work. 350 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,840 So that's what we're really talking about, the scope of how 351 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,560 much and what we're really going to be looking at for the BA 352 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,040 analysis activity. So not detailed requirement 353 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,120 scope whatsoever. So this causes a lot of 354 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:37,000 confusion, of course. Yeah, I could see where folks 355 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,440 that are looking at this might get some of this a little bit 356 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,200 mixed up with the requirements effort, but still you are 357 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,080 thinking about your plan. What is the scope of the effort 358 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,440 that I need to be thinking about is I am planning my activities, 359 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,600 the work that I'm going to do. That's your scope. 360 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,880 That's exactly it. So we're not at all thinking 361 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,640 about, oh, you know, which screens are changing on the 362 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,080 website or what you apps or what. 363 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:05,880 And it's really about, I'm gonna be looking at HR, I'm gonna be 364 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,000 looking specifically at. Payroll or whatever it is. 365 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,800 So it's really just kind of defining where I'm going to be 366 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,080 looking in the 1st place rather than the requirement scope. 367 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,040 And that's really what we need to. 368 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,760 So it's a stepping back of it's looking at it at a much higher 369 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,400 level, you know, higher level picture of this is the scope of 370 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,560 my work, not the scope of the. Requirements. 371 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:28,520 Yeah. And I bet a lot of folks 372 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,600 probably don't even stop to think about what is the scope of 373 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,120 my work, What have I been tasked with doing? 374 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:38,200 Sort of put on a consultant mindset potentially you've been 375 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,840 hired with the company, what's the scope that they've asked you 376 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,320 to do so that's. Exactly it. 377 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,080 So it helps give us a bit of a frame of reference, all of this 378 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,000 stuff and the goals and objectives. 379 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,160 Once again, as ABA, we not necessarily come up with the 380 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,240 goals and objectives, but we must be clear that what does 381 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,840 good look like, what does success look like and how is it 382 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,000 going to be measured? Now this probably is in line 383 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,000 with the project management documentation again, if it 384 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,960 exists because sometimes it doesn't exist because it's an 385 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,400 initiative that we're doing without that formality. 386 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,120 So it doesn't have to be project specifically related. 387 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:18,840 It might be just, you know some of the BA you kind of BA work 388 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,680 that some of us do. So what's the expected result? 389 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,880 We're expecting sales to increase, or employee engagement 390 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,360 to increase, or the cost of postage and delivery to come 391 00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,840 down or whatever it is. We're clear about what good 392 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,040 looks like, so we're not reinventing it. 393 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,880 We're just confirming it. So the top layer gives us the 394 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,160 framework, it sets the scene, it gives me the foundations and the 395 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:47,200 context of my BA work. Then we start digging into some 396 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,520 detail. Now here we've got stakeholders 397 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,360 and there are great tools including another canvas staff 398 00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:57,360 presented as mentioned that stakeholder analysis. 399 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,920 But this provides a high level view of who the stakeholders 400 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,840 impacted, what is their role and their needs. 401 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,000 So at a high level, we can understand a little bit about 402 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,080 our stakeholders and we might follow this up with a much more 403 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,280 detailed stakeholder analysis, which I've thoroughly recommend. 404 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,840 But of course on the canvas here, it may just be the the 405 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,800 summary and then the detailed work would be done in addition 406 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,840 to the plan. But at least here it gives you 407 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,960 that first kind of set of names and roles and and gives you that 408 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,280 sort of very starting point of the stake stakeholder analysis 409 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,960 processes. So we need to understand who the 410 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,560 stakeholders are. And once again, going back to 411 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,520 what we mentioned earlier, we can start thinking about how 412 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,160 much time we might need from each of these stakeholders 413 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,520 because what are we expecting them to be participating in? 414 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,440 Are they in workshops or one on ones? 415 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,360 Are we going to do some observations? 416 00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:53,440 Are we going to do some simulations prototyping so we 417 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,760 get a small picture of what we might be needing from them here? 418 00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,960 Yeah. And here I think you're right. 419 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:03,920 As you are thinking about the kinds of artifacts you think you 420 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,240 are going to be producing, you also kind of have to retro 421 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,400 engineer who are the people, even if you don't know names, 422 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,960 what kinds of people, what departments, what teams who do I 423 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,800 think might need to be involved in helping me to produce X? 424 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,200 Yep. So that you can make sure that 425 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,440 you can create that more detailed document that says, OK, 426 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,720 I need to talk to the HR team and specifically to the 427 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,480 recruiting staff. It's who I need to be talking 428 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,040 to. And I'm not sure who that is 429 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,480 yet, but I know those are the folks that are going to be 430 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,520 important to being able to produce whatever recruiting 431 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,160 workflows. Yeah. 432 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,480 And because this is a planning document, it's really saying 433 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,440 this is what I think I'm going to need to get into. 434 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,960 So this will form the basis of the more detail. 435 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,560 So it's again providing that all right, you know that like any of 436 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,680 the canvases and templates, it's really about organizing my 437 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,600 thinking and organizing all the bits and pieces so I don't miss 438 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,160 things. And so this gives us that 439 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,200 initial think of, yes, I think I need to talk to these folk and 440 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,480 maybe not the others. Moving on to risks. 441 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,120 And again, project managers might go, but that's my job. 442 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:12,640 Risk management. Well, of course project risk 443 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,960 management is, but we're looking at risks to business analysis, 444 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:22,160 risks to our requirements, risks to to the modelling, risks to 445 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,560 problems that could affect the business analysis activities and 446 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,600 risks to the solution success. Beyond like project management 447 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,040 risks, which might be looking at things like, you know, 448 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,040 resourcing risks or technology risks or weather risks or 449 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,520 whatever it might be. We're going to be looking 450 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,400 specifically at what might affect us. 451 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:47,040 So we might say, well, the availability of the HR manager 452 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,720 not coming to us and giving their requirements, we're going 453 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,440 to miss stuff. So we're going to be looking 454 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:56,160 specifically at that requirement solicitation, solution 455 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,400 recommendation, you know, really looking at those kinds of risks, 456 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,320 the risks of we don't have enough time for workshops, you 457 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:09,800 know, and this could I happens all the time and certainly I 458 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,920 would be talking to my project manager here. 459 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,200 It's not like I'm saying I'm doing a separate risk analysis 460 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,120 from you. I'm just going to say, well, 461 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,920 these are very specific to what I'm trying to do within the 462 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,920 project. And it may become a subset of 463 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,560 the project risks that they might add, but leave us to kind 464 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,040 of manage because that's what we naturally do anyhow. 465 00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:33,720 Yes, Yep. Then, so now we've got a bit 466 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,720 more kind of context and now we start really framing it up. 467 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,440 What is the governance expectations of this project? 468 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,000 How a decision is going to be made, where the approvals, what 469 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,280 needs approval, what doesn't? How are we going to do change 470 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,480 management? Because change is definitely 471 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,040 going to happen. How do we manage change? 472 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,320 And we're going to be looking at it from the point of view of 473 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,080 requirements and the solutioning, not the big project 474 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,360 stuff because of course project change, the project manager will 475 00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:04,280 look at, you know, budget and schedule. 476 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,560 We're going to be looking at requirements change. 477 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,760 So we need to think about how we're going to prioritise and 478 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:14,240 how do we manage change very specifically in the requirement 479 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,240 set more so than the project. So again, it's like that project 480 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,120 within a project, so we care about this. 481 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,560 I think sometimes that we are not thinking about this, this in 482 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,280 particular because I've, I've been on projects where we did 483 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,640 not have a decision making protocol. 484 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,000 Who's making decisions? Where are we logging, we 485 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,560 communicating them? Who approves requirements? 486 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,040 What is the process for sending out a request for approval? 487 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,800 There may be lots of ways that you've worked in the past, but 488 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,720 for this project, I think it it makes sense to just talk about 489 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,360 these things, have a plan for them so that we all know and 490 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:53,520 that's all you're saying. Especially if we're dealing with 491 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,360 vendors with commercial software, because that's going 492 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,040 to be even more important to understand how we're going to 493 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,760 manage this stuff because if we approve change requirements, we 494 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,600 might be affecting costs of the contract. 495 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,920 So this is the kind of stuff we need to think of upfront. 496 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,920 Yes, Yep. The next one is shouldn't take 497 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,560 too long. It's really about what kind of 498 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,680 project methods and frameworks are we following? 499 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,960 Are we using Scrum? Are we using waterfall? 500 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,560 Are we doing something hybrid? So we've got a clear picture of 501 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,080 the project life cycle and the expected level of detail of the 502 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,000 requirements at the various stages. 503 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,440 Of course, that's the big difference between Waterfall and 504 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,200 Agile in my mind. Waterfall projects do more 505 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,480 detail upfront, Agile do more detail as we go. 506 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,120 So what is that approach and how we're going to fit our 507 00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:46,160 requirements analysis and the levels of detail and how the the 508 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,600 the work's going to emerge based on the overall method of the 509 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,400 project. So we can plan for know this is 510 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,320 a bit of a hybrid, you know, all this is fully waterfall or is it 511 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,640 completely the vendor and we're almost acting as a product 512 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,160 owner. So that could be completely 513 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,600 different to the approach too, right. 514 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,120 And that happens in many circumstances. 515 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:07,640 Oh yeah. Yeah. 516 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,280 The last one is all about making it clear in our own minds what 517 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,720 artifacts are we producing? Are we doing end to end process 518 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,520 models or are we just doing things in JIRA based on user 519 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,480 stories with epics, etcetera? How are we managing things? 520 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,480 Is it in Confluence or SharePoint or is it still back 521 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,080 to BRDS? I worked with a team just last 522 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:34,000 week that still use detailed documents in Word, full BRDS. 523 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,360 So it just depends on who it is and what company, but we're 524 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,680 clear about about the documents, artifacts and other information 525 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,360 sources, where they're stored, who's going to be reviewing 526 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,040 them, who's going to need to look at them, how they're going 527 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,560 to be distributed. So we're clear and we might even 528 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,280 consider this stuff that's maybe internal. 529 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,840 The vendors don't see if it is that case or maybe something 530 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,920 that has to stay within the IT department that doesn't go out 531 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,560 to the the call center, I don't know. 532 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,800 So we're starting to think about information management in all 533 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,480 its forms, including security, and who's involved. 534 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,960 And this information management piece is where you might 535 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,360 possibly take a left turn and start to go into a requirement 536 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,920 management plan, which would be a completely separate thing. 537 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,960 But if you are going to be managing a lot of requirements, 538 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,360 are you going to have a requirement management plan? 539 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:27,960 Where is that? Who's writing it? 540 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,920 Where is it stored? And then, you know, so I I can 541 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,320 see where each of these very well could take you into another 542 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,920 document which gets much deeper. Yeah. 543 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,840 And it's sort of it's kind of all feeds in to a clear BA plan 544 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,040 and that's similar to what you've sort of said. 545 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,600 So we're clear about, you know again it sounds obvious who's 546 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,200 going to perform the work. In many big projects, you might 547 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,440 have a team of BA's such as one BA, and some BA might be looking 548 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,200 at different elements. So now we've got all this work 549 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,880 that we've done in the other elements to be clear about who's 550 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,440 doing what, especially if there's multiple BAS or there 551 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,520 might be other people. There might be project managers 552 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,960 or testers or UX designers doing some of the works. 553 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,920 What activities are happening? Interviews, workshops, go out to 554 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,960 client sites, observations, all of that, that idea of tasks and 555 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,440 time frames and what techniques we're going to use. 556 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,640 We're going to use BPMN here. We're going to do some story 557 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,880 mapping there. So all of the other information 558 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,000 should now feed in to give us that clarity on the activities 559 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,600 and the rough timings of what we need to do based on all the 560 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,120 other elements of the canvas, so to speak. 561 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,320 They should now be able to inform us to answer these 562 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,040 questions so we can be clear and formulate a plan and that could 563 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,400 go into the overall project plan with our project manager to say 564 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,160 if that if that's what they want to do. 565 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,680 Some of them might say we're happy for you to manage that 566 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:01,680 part. It just depends. 567 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,040 Yeah, this is where I think it's really helpful when business 568 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,920 analysts have a little bit of project management skill set 569 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,400 under, you know, under their belt. 570 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,640 Just because I think it can help you in those instances where 571 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,520 either you don't have a project manager or your project manager 572 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,920 says, you know what, I'm just going to let you manage that. 573 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,400 Just check in with me. So not a bad thing to have a 574 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:27,960 little bit of project management skills. 575 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,560 I know that folks that are watching today may be thinking, 576 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,120 wow, that's a lot of stuff. You mean I have to do that for 577 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,600 every project? What would you, how would you 578 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,480 answer that question? Do you have to have a plan for 579 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:45,520 every project? So if you're doing a huge 18 580 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,640 months massive transformation plan, well, this is probably 581 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,800 going to be a little bit more detailed and probably a lot more 582 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,800 important to be clear, because the larger the scope and the 583 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,680 larger the complexity, the more likely it is you need to think 584 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,520 more carefully about this and have a clear plan. 585 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,520 If I'm doing a couple of weeks worth of a quick enhancement, 586 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,840 this may be nothing more than some scribbles under the 587 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,560 headings just to clarify some thinking. 588 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,720 It may be completely informal and goes no further than my own 589 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:25,160 sticky notes on my whiteboard. So it's not intended to be a 590 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,680 formal document, but it certainly could form a formal 591 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,640 document that's signed off and approved and, and goes proper 592 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,600 project management type of stage gates and stuff. 593 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,560 It just depends on what the project is and that again, you 594 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,120 know, if we're working for government versus working for a 595 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,880 start up, that's going to hugely influence the level of formality 596 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,840 and the level of detail as well. So it needs to be thought of is 597 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,800 how much is valuable and how much is overkill and how much is 598 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,360 not enough. Because, you know, I always feel 599 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,360 like these things are like the Goldilocks parable, you know, 600 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:06,160 too much wasteful, not enough, also wasteful. 601 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:11,360 What's just right is going to be so dependent on the context. 602 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,280 I think this is an area where if you are a business analysis 603 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,040 professional who wants to grow in the profession and you're 604 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,520 looking for some some things that you can start to 605 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,160 incorporate, that'll make the difference. 606 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,320 I actually think doing business analysis, planning, being more 607 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,200 intentional with it is one of the ways that you can start to 608 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,960 be thinking about how you're going to grow your career. 609 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,320 Knowing why you are doing things and being able to show your 610 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,800 work, as they say, I think can be really helpful for yourself 611 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,840 and for those around you to build confidence that you know 612 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,640 how to do things. Also to make your plans clear so 613 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,360 that you can ask for feedback and get assistance from maybe 614 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,400 more senior BA. So to me it's a form of 615 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,400 leadership skills if you want to do this. 616 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,640 Yeah, it does. And I think that you're right 617 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,280 because it's showing your team, it's showing your stakeholders, 618 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,040 your project managers and your sponsors. 619 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,159 I'm serious about this stuff. I'm not just winging it and, you 620 00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:14,679 know, flying by the seat of my pants. 621 00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:18,560 I'm serious about developing and contributing to successful 622 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,960 outcomes. Yes, exactly. 623 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,880 And so you mentioned that you took your inspiration for that 624 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,360 canvas from the Business Analysis Body of Knowledge 625 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,280 Chapter 4. Listen, I don't know the 626 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,239 chapters like everybody, like some folks who know the 627 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,880 chapters, but there's a whole chapter on this. 628 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,199 And so for those of you that are are joining us today and who, 629 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,800 who are like, OK, that canvas makes sense to me. 630 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,440 I want more. Well, that's where you go to get 631 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,239 more and you can get the, the detail of how to think about 632 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,480 each of those things, why you would do each of those things. 633 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,239 So I think that's really helpful. 634 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,880 Maybe just one last question that folks might be thinking, 635 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,720 which is I do, I'm an agile I've I don't need to do this, right? 636 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,960 You know, I hear so much noise about BA's. 637 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,080 Agile BA's are different than regular BA's. 638 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,480 No, it's the same work. The only difference is how much 639 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,640 is done up front versus how much is done as you are going. 640 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,600 But that's why the approach needs to be thought of. 641 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,560 And in an agile project, all of these things are the same. 642 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,200 We still need to manage artifacts and information. 643 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,040 We still need stakeholder engagement. 644 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,160 We still need to understand risks. 645 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,680 We'll still need to understand governance. 646 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,360 Good agile projects have good disciplined governance as well. 647 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,200 So all of these things still need to be thought of. 648 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,920 But am I going to spend weeks on ABA plan? 649 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,160 No, it's probably going to be quite lightweight, quite 650 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,240 informal, and it's going to speak to the agile way of 651 00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:57,240 working rather than the more perhaps traditional ways of 652 00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:59,440 working. So it's no different. 653 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,640 It's the same BA work in an agile project. 654 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,960 So I think that that's something I hope we can get in the BA 655 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,840 community that the the activities, the tools and the 656 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,920 techniques. Yeah, there's some different 657 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,800 special agile techniques, stories and story mapping and 658 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,320 things like this, but the work is the same. 659 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,000 Understanding the needs to recommend solutions that deliver 660 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,400 value to our stakeholders. It's no different. 661 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,040 It's enabling change. Exactly. 662 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,160 All right. Well, a great conversation. 663 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,600 So I hope those that are joining us today know a little bit more 664 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,520 about why they should be thinking about business 665 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,280 analysis, planning. You are going to continue 666 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,920 talking about this. You told me that you are going 667 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,000 to be at BBC this year in Toronto in April. 668 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,440 I think it's like the 20th through the 23rd or 4th of 669 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:49,120 April. Yeah. 670 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,520 So and this is your topic. Are you doing a workshop? 671 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,280 Are you doing a talk? Doing a workshop, we're going to 672 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,920 do a big deep dive into how to do all of these good stuff. 673 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,560 So yes, it shall be a workshop and there may or may not be 674 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,320 another session, we're not sure yet, but I definitely will be in 675 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,120 Toronto, the birth place of the. So I'm very excited. 676 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,640 I've been to Canada once, but I haven't been to Toronto. 677 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,400 So I'm very excited to be up there for the first time and 678 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,640 again, see all the passionate BAS as what we have in all our 679 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,360 community events. And this is going to be a big 680 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,320 one, I'm sure. Yes, and it'll be good to see 681 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,200 you there. So Kathy, thanks again for 682 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:28,600 joining us today. You're. 683 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,520 Very welcome, it's been a pleasure. 684 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:31,960 Yeah. Thanks. 685 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,080 All right. And that is it for our episode 686 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,120 today. Maybe there's some things that 687 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,440 you heard today that you're going to incorporate. 688 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,840 Maybe you're going to take another look at that chapter in 689 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,720 the business analysis body of knowledge on business analysis 690 00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:49,000 planning. Maybe you'll think about that 691 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,640 canvas that Kathy showed us today. 692 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,320 Whatever you choose to do, I think there's a lot there that 693 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,880 can give you some control over the approaches that you take 694 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,200 when you do your business analysis. 695 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,560 So I look forward to seeing you again. 696 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,600 See you soon. Thanks for listening. 697 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,040 Do you have any questions, comments or thoughts about 698 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,880 today's topic? We'd love to hear them. 699 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,320 Drop us a review or leave a note in the comments. 700 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,520 Then like, subscribe or share this podcast if you like what 701 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,400 you heard. And hey, you can help us shape 702 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,760 future episodes. What do you want to know more 703 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,920 about? Send us an e-mail at Live at 704 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,760 iiba.org with your ideas. See you again on our next 705 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:26,280 episode.