1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,320 It's easy to get into the mindset of they hate change, 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:05,880 they don't want to change, and really it's a little deeper than 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,840 that. People are trying to protect 4 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:10,920 what they see as their security and what they do every day. 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:14,840 Welcome to Business Analysis Live. 6 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,080 I'm your host, Susan Moore, community engagement manager 7 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:21,000 with the International Institute of Business Analysis. 8 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,200 I explore topics with industry guests about the work of 9 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,120 business analysis professionals and how their work helps 10 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,360 organizations achieve better outcomes. 11 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,280 And Yep, we take your questions too. 12 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,280 Thanks for listening. Let's get started. 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:43,120 One of the things that we do the most of it seems is we get 14 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,160 involved in projects related to process or maybe that is part of 15 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:53,240 our analysis, understanding how things work in our organization. 16 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,560 And sometimes, though we are well meaning, sometimes we make 17 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,120 some mistakes when we are attempting to help understand 18 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,080 process or change process. And those things can work 19 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,080 against us. They can maybe help distract 20 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,240 from the results that we're trying to get or can create 21 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,240 resistance in the changes that we need to make. 22 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:22,520 Today I am really pleased to be joined by two guests who work as 23 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,760 a team and they talk about this topic. 24 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,160 In fact, they've got a tutorial coming up at our BBC conference 25 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:32,760 that's happening in a couple of weeks. 26 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:38,880 And I think that they probably know the been there, done that, 27 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,640 they've got the T-shirt. And so I am happy to bring to 28 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:47,480 the stage today Tawana Gardner and Julia Benford. 29 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,280 Hello. Hello. 30 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,640 Hello. Well it's great to see you guys. 31 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:59,080 I know we chatted what seems like ages ago and we were like, 32 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,720 April, Oh my gosh, that's such a long way away. 33 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,040 And it is now April and I'm going to see you in person in 34 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,240 just a couple of weeks at BBC in Toronto. 35 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,400 Before we dive into this topic today, which is let's pop this 36 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,480 up so everybody can see the process improvement mistakes 37 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,000 that analysts make. The first thing I would like to 38 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,960 do is to have you guys introduce yourselves. 39 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,760 So how about Tawana? I'm going to give you the stage. 40 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,280 Tell us a little bit about yourself. 41 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,960 I am a lean 6 Sigma master black belt. 42 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,040 I have been working in continuous improvement. 43 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,720 I've been a project manager, business architect, business 44 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,920 analyst for over 20 years. I started when I was 9. 45 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,200 But I'm most passionate about training greenbelts and 46 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,840 mentoring them and basically helping people to better 47 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,880 understand their processes so that they can fix them. 48 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,480 I know that when we were talking about your headline, So what 49 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,880 shows up under your name, you were like, can I put? 50 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,080 I see, what did you say? I see problems. 51 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,640 I see problems. Yes, yes. 52 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:14,760 Yes, yeah, it is. It is Now Julia, you're next. 53 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:16,240 Tell us a little bit about yourself. 54 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:17,760 Sure. So good morning. 55 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,560 My name is Julia Binford. I am currently the Merchandising 56 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,080 Solutions Manager for Coca-Cola Florida. 57 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,120 I have been in the continuous improvement and lean space for 58 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,040 about 8 years now. And my passion is people. 59 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,680 And so I'm also a lean 6 Sigma black belt. 60 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,880 And I find that when you fix the problems that Tawana can see, 61 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,160 there are interactions from your people. 62 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,200 And so we work together, as you said earlier, to tie those two 63 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,200 things together and see how we can help folks optimize their 64 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,360 processes. I love that because I don't 65 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,880 think you could come at process change by just looking at the 66 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,360 what people are doing and you you've got to tie it to the 67 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,440 people that are part of that process. 68 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:07,360 So maybe a Full disclosure for our audience today, this talk. 69 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,880 So you you're going to be doing a tutorial of Bbci mentioned 70 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,360 that and it is on, I'll call it a framework. 71 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,839 I don't know if that's really what it is, but it's some 72 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,440 lessons that you've learned. And so you're teaching from that 73 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,519 perspective. But what I found really 74 00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:27,960 interesting when we met was the stories that you were telling me 75 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,360 about how you got to this particular talk. 76 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,000 And so really we'll focus on some of that background because 77 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:40,680 I think some of the things that you learned were helpful in 78 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,440 getting you to pivot to see things from a different 79 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,280 perspective. So all right, so let's talk a 80 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:51,840 little bit about that. So you both work for an 81 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:59,000 organization where you guys have the opportunity to kind of see 82 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,800 those problems and you're able to initiate some of those 83 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,840 changes on your own. I think that was how you 84 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:09,680 described the work. So let's talk a little bit about 85 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,680 that. When you talked with those teams 86 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,960 about their processes, 1, you said, well, yeah, we would bring 87 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,200 it up that there was a problem and they knew that it needed to 88 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,640 be fixed, but they were resistant to making those 89 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,720 changes, which I'm wondering if that was surprising to you, that 90 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,920 they knew they needed to be fixed, but they didn't. 91 00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:30,560 They weren't capable of making those changes. 92 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,080 What do you think it was that was fueling their resistance? 93 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,400 Who would like to start? Maybe since it's a people 94 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,120 problem. Julia, why don't you start? 95 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,320 Sure. So what I'll say first is that I 96 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,440 think that resistance isn't necessarily always about the 97 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,000 actual change for people. A lot of times it's about 98 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,880 protecting what they perceive is already working. 99 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,400 And so a lot of times the fear of disruption because we've 100 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:04,560 always done it this way, or just being disconnected from what the 101 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,960 problem is perceived to be because from where you're 102 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,280 sitting, it's working a lot of times can help form that 103 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:11,680 resistance to what the change is. 104 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,560 And in a lot of instances, people aren't really sure what 105 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:15,960 the change is going to be, right? 106 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,200 Maybe understand that change is going to affect them or what's 107 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,720 in it for them, the benefit of said change. 108 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,560 And so I think it's easy to get into the mindset of, you know, 109 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,040 they hate change. They don't want to change. 110 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:30,840 And really it's a little deeper than that. 111 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:34,440 People are trying to protect what they see as their security 112 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,880 and what they do every day. With that, yeah. 113 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,240 So they're kind of paralyzed by, we know something needs to 114 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,920 change, but it could mean it some level of insecurity or 115 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,520 discomfort. Right. 116 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:49,760 Change is theory. And So what does that mean for 117 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,120 me and what does that mean for you? 118 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,200 And if I'm not going to be doing it like I'm doing it today, then 119 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,120 what does that mean it's going to happen tomorrow? 120 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:57,920 And that can be intimidating sometimes. 121 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,040 I think you also mentioned there that sometimes they don't know 122 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,000 what the solution is, and so that was another piece of that. 123 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:05,640 I know it needs to change, but I don't. 124 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,960 Either I don't know what that change needs to be, or I'm kind 125 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,680 of powerless to make that. I think that communication is 126 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,520 key all the way down the ladder of whatever the change from the 127 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,760 person that's implementing it to the person that's actually going 128 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,920 to have to perform said change. Being able to communicate that 129 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:23,640 is super important. Yeah. 130 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,560 So, Tawana, what do you think? What were you seeing with that 131 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,720 resistance? So I agree with what Julia is 132 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,360 saying. And there's also a flip side to 133 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:39,080 it because yes, people are working within those confines of 134 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,800 whatever their process is. So when you're on the outside 135 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,640 looking in, you're like, oh, you could do this better, or maybe 136 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,560 we should do this way, or maybe we could automate that. 137 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,640 But from the inside, you know, that's their everyday process. 138 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,160 They live it, they walk it, they breathe it. 139 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:54,720 They know it better than anyone else. 140 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,640 And so they may not see it as a problem. 141 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,560 And so when you go to them to start talking about process 142 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,800 improvement or continuous improvement, it's like what's 143 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,200 broken? What did I do wrong? 144 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,280 So sometimes that can be a little bit of the pushback as 145 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,280 well. So you really have to, you know, 146 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,200 talk to your stakeholders and get a better understanding of do 147 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,640 you think there's a problem? And so, and then if not, then 148 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,880 you know, you can talk to data and things like that or SOPSOPS 149 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:29,240 or SL as any or just anything that's data-driven to, well, 150 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,799 could this be a problem if they don't think there's one, but 151 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:35,080 usually they'll tell you what the problems are. 152 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:38,400 Oh, so that's, yeah, that's good. 153 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,720 How important is it for you guys as part of that team that's 154 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,760 going to help them facilitate that change? 155 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,760 How important is it for you guys to name that resistance, either 156 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,800 to name it for your purposes or to name it for whatever the 157 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:59,000 managers, the employees? I have never named the 158 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:00,800 resistance. OK. 159 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,880 And. And my, it's you need it and 160 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,160 figure out how do we get through it? 161 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,520 How do we address it? Because sometimes, you know, 162 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,080 like Julie was saying it, a lot of times it is fear. 163 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,800 Sometimes they don't realize there's a problem and they're 164 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,720 like, you're blaming me and it's not, no, we're not blaming you. 165 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,640 It's not we. But we do want to help you. 166 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,640 How can we make it more efficient? 167 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:28,480 You have to make it more about them a a wiffum situation. 168 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,560 Yeah. So what I'm hearing is that 169 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:36,840 you've got to be like those emotional intelligence, empathy, 170 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,000 those kinds of skills. It sounds like when you start 171 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,800 that work, those skills are like essential for going in. 172 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:49,560 Absolutely. Like once I had, I was hosting a 173 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:53,960 session and there was a gentleman in the room and he 174 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:55,680 wouldn't say anything. He was the expert. 175 00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:57,200 This is the guy that was on the line. 176 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,960 He was the expert. And he didn't say anything the 177 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:01,680 whole meeting. And I was trying to ask him, 178 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:03,720 he's like, well, the engineers, you know, they're the experts, 179 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,400 they know. And so after the meeting, I went 180 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,600 and talked to him, and I said, is there a reason why were you 181 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,840 uncomfortable speaking up in the meeting? 182 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,360 And so he said, well, you know, I'm old. 183 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,560 I've been here forever. Nobody wants to hear what I have 184 00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:18,960 to say. And I was like, I do. 185 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,240 I was like, you have all the answers. 186 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,360 And I said, you know, when you say you've been here a long 187 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,320 time, that's absolutely right. That makes you an expert in the 188 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,600 room, and we need to hear your voice. 189 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,640 You know where the problems are. You know what's hidden in the 190 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,360 dark, the skeletons in the closet. 191 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,760 And we're just trying to find them, identify them so we can 192 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:41,240 fix them. So it sounds like that actually 193 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,920 that kind of offline conversation was really 194 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,200 essential in unlocking a good amount of expertise. 195 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,480 So it sounds like also maybe part of the things that you guys 196 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,880 were learning were about who has the expertise. 197 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:01,160 Is that also maybe a thing that gets missed when we're thinking 198 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,480 about process changes? Who those experts? 199 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,440 For sure. And you almost, not almost, you 200 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,480 absolutely always need those people. 201 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,960 I think at the beginning of Tawana's sentence, she said they 202 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,480 want to tell you the problems, right? 203 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:18,320 And so a lot of times it's going into the room and letting them 204 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,640 get those issues off of their chest. 205 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,200 You're almost instantly going to figure out who the subject 206 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,160 matter expert is by the problems that are coming out from the 207 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,080 team. And being able to provide the 208 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,480 space for them to get those things off of their chest kind 209 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,400 of flips the environment in a way where now you can kind of 210 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,680 come in and talk about, all right, well, here's what the 211 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:41,000 data says and this is how it matches up with what you're 212 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,280 saying. And so to Tolana's point, they 213 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,520 want to be transparent with you and tell you the problems. 214 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,520 And when they're telling you the problems and you can match them 215 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,120 up to the data, you're almost instantly going to get to the 216 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,600 bottom of who this me is a subject matter expert, even if 217 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,640 that's something that's not clear in the beginning of the 218 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,000 conversation. Yeah, so I can, yeah, because 219 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,800 it's not just randomly. We need to fix this process all 220 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,160 hands on deck. And also, I would think that 221 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,960 finding who the subject matter experts are gives you the 222 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,280 opportunity to make some allies, maybe help to elevate some folks 223 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,480 whose knowledge maybe doesn't always get highlighted for 224 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:22,400 whatever reason. Yes, allies, yes. 225 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,560 It depends. We love that answer here. 226 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:34,440 Sometimes it could be again with your stakeholders, this has to 227 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,000 do with stakeholder engagement. Do you even want to be engaged? 228 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,560 And it goes back to do you see a problem? 229 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:42,080 Because sometimes the people that don't see a problem, they 230 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,040 don't want to fix it. Or if it's something that they 231 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,400 own, it's their baby and they don't want anybody calling their 232 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,040 baby ugly. And so you have to be careful 233 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,040 and how you approach, but they are probably not going to be 234 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,480 your ally until they realize I need to fix something. 235 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,320 And so you want to talk to the people who are your allies. 236 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:09,400 But if you have the person in the room who's not wanting to 237 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,200 change, fix their, you know, sitting in the corner, you know, 238 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,640 with their arms folded, I call them the bully in the room. 239 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:17,800 That's the person you need to get in your corner. 240 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,600 That's the person you need to have those sideline 241 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,760 conversations with. I noticed you weren't engaged. 242 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,040 Can you do you not see that there's an issue or, or you just 243 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,800 really want to get to the bottom of why they feel the way that 244 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,520 they do so that you can overcome it? 245 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:38,840 Because at that point, they'll become your biggest cheerleader. 246 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,520 If you can get them on your side, they will become. 247 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:44,800 And also you have to think about groupthink is real. 248 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,160 So if you have that person in the room with a strong 249 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,480 personality who everybody looks up to, that's going, we don't 250 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,360 need to do that. They're going to be other people 251 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:52,840 in the room like, well, I don't know, maybe we don't. 252 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,600 And so once you get the person going, yeah, we do need to fix 253 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:57,520 it. We need to look at it. 254 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,120 Maybe this is an issue that also can change the room, the feeling 255 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,360 in room and it makes your job easier when you come in to help 256 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,160 with the change. Yeah, that I like that you're 257 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,520 that we're talking about this one because I think sometimes we 258 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,040 have this natural fear of approaching folks like that. 259 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,560 If somebody is sitting at the back of the room not wanting to 260 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,760 engage, that is a lot of negative energy. 261 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,960 But you're right, there are also people that are looking to that 262 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,600 person for how should I be behaving in this moment when 263 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,560 we're changing? Should I be looking at this 264 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,320 person as Nope, no problem, nothing to do here, or should I 265 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,400 be looking someplace else? So getting the bully in the room 266 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:45,360 on your side can be a win to just help morale, help people 267 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,480 get interested in being part of the solution. 268 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,240 What do you think, Julia? I agree. 269 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,840 I think that what Tawana's saying crosses over into 270 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,920 influence those people that are in that room that are. 271 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,480 Able to affect. The mood definitely have 272 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,000 influence over the way the rest of the room feels and how 273 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,280 they're willing to cooperate. And so sometimes you may be in a 274 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,360 space where you're trying to fix something and you have the fix 275 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,240 and the solution, and it may be something that's extremely 276 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,160 simple, but it's just not getting executed because folks 277 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,480 don't see the value. And that person really can swing 278 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,920 the room in that regard. Yeah, and I like that idea of 279 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,560 trying to make friends with them. 280 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,240 I literally was just having this conversation with my mom last 281 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,840 night that one of the things that I've, as I became a more 282 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,880 experienced analyst for me, I wanted to work with the people 283 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,360 that were the most difficult because these skills that you 284 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,560 guys are talking about, they are not. 285 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:43,000 You can't go take a, you know, a boot camp and learn these skills 286 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,920 like you have to practice them. You have to seek out these 287 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:47,960 situations. And that doesn't mean that it'll 288 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,960 be perfect every time, but you've got to figure out your 289 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,280 style and you've got to see the success and the value in. 290 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,880 Yes, boot camp will be real world. 291 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:06,920 I started work in an aerospace heavy industrial environment 292 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,800 with a union, very strong union environment. 293 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,040 So that helped me a lot. It was actually a great place. 294 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,240 I don't, you know, want to anything native there. 295 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,600 It was a great place. The people were wonderful, but 296 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,320 also people, you know, you have to treat people the way you want 297 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,760 to be treated. And so I would go in and I was 298 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,480 fine. And some of them are like, oh, 299 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,280 they're just nice to you because you're a girl. 300 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,800 I didn't talk down to them. I was nice to them. 301 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,360 I told them what I was doing. I was very open and they in 302 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:41,320 exchange they were open with me. So you just have to Empathy 303 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:42,760 helps a lot. Yeah. 304 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,360 And it's all about the approach as well. 305 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,800 Now let's dive in a little bit because you both have that Lean 306 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,920 6 Sigma background. How much when you have been 307 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,000 working on process improvement, how much have you utilized from 308 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,600 that Lean 6 Sigma background? And did you find that people 309 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,200 jumped on board or did that intimidate people? 310 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:14,200 What do you mean? Well, so if you were so you were 311 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:19,560 bringing your Lean 6 Sigma knowledge and skills as you guys 312 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,040 were working through process improvement, how much did that 313 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,119 become a framework for the changes that you were making? 314 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,520 So you mean when we go into the room to work with people that 315 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:34,600 OK? The thing is, at least for me, I 316 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,560 don't walk in the room like I'm the expert. 317 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,320 I'm an expert in, again, finding issues and helping people to 318 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,840 work through them, fixing processes. 319 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,160 And I used to call myself the Process Whisperer. 320 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,560 Then I met someone who called himself the Process Whisperer. 321 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,360 But. You can call yourself that too. 322 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,880 The people in the room are the true experts. 323 00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:03,360 I'm just here because I know and understand a framework that I 324 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:08,240 can help you get from point A to point B and we can talk about 325 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,680 how do we change these process steps? 326 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,280 How do we make things more efficient? 327 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,840 How do we save money, return on investment? 328 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,640 That's what I'm an expert in, not necessarily your process. 329 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,200 So that's, you know, if you don't go in as I know 330 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,840 everything, then usually people are pretty open. 331 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,280 Yeah, and that's an important distinction. 332 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,520 I'm here because I understand how to change. 333 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,840 I I'm not here because I'm an expert in yeah, what you do. 334 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,520 What do you think, Julia? You are also a lean 6 signal. 335 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,720 I agree with Tawana. In a lot of situations where 336 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,640 we're working together, a lot of the framework that happens 337 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,480 between us behind closed doors, if you will, people, I think it 338 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,600 is easy to get overwhelmed when you start breaking out. 339 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,600 You know, a fish bone diagram, some statistics. 340 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,600 Let's do a Kaiser like people are kind of like, well, man, you 341 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,040 told me that you were going to save me hours of doing this job. 342 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,240 I had to create a chart and. Now I have to learn a whole new 343 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,200 language. What is it? 344 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,640 Those actual frameworks happen behind the scenes. 345 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,960 So Tawana and I are working together to figure out how we 346 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,320 can help implement XYZ solution. And then for the person that is 347 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,640 going to be a part of that change, continuous improvement 348 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,200 is a behavior, right? And so maybe it's us giving them 349 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,920 a very simplified version of how we make this cyclical. 350 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:36,280 So like APDCA, right, something that's easy to flow along with. 351 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:41,080 But I do not recommend. I do not recommend bombarding 352 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,800 people with actual domaic tools. Yeah. 353 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,160 I mean, I could see where that would be a little off putting, 354 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,800 right, Especially because you guys are, you are basically 355 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,160 consultants, but you were working within your 356 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,240 organization. So you're not somebody hired 357 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,000 from outside. So you are part of the 358 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,280 organization in which you work. You just have a. 359 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,480 Consultative mindset, as it were. 360 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,880 But that doesn't mean or that does mean that you bring a lot 361 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,520 of skills with you. And so, you know, I could see 362 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,800 where if you started using a bunch of fancy words that 363 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,360 weren't already part of the terminology that people in the 364 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:23,720 room might be suspicious of, oh, what is she here to do? 365 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:25,960 You lose the audience immediately, they are 366 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,720 uninterested and now we haven't fixed anything. 367 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,160 Right now you've actually built another barrier or another 368 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,960 resistance to change. Now I'm not going to do it 369 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,240 because I don't even know they're here to change stuff and 370 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:39,560 I don't even know what they're talking about. 371 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:41,320 Right. Yeah, exactly. 372 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,840 So, you know, that might be. I know that as business analysis 373 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:49,520 professionals, we get really, we nerd out to like these tools and 374 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,600 techniques and all the things that we do, but maybe outside of 375 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,800 our sphere, not everybody is as excited about those things. 376 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,360 So I think that's, you know, maybe that's an important thing 377 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,360 that you've learned. It's like we can keep the 378 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:05,960 tactics to ourselves, but we can present them in a way that's 379 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,840 helpful. Absolutely, yes. 380 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:14,560 And also business analysts are usually focused on the what 381 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,400 they're moving the organization from point A to point B. 382 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,480 What does the organization need now? 383 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:25,400 Whereas continuous improvement would be more the how so you 384 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:30,240 know more process related and so the tools will look different, 385 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,040 but I feel like the approach is very similar. 386 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,160 OK. Yeah. 387 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:42,000 All right. So let's talk about the culture, 388 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,520 because I think that's another piece that can sometimes create 389 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,920 barriers or that we can get as business analysis professionals, 390 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,400 we can get ourselves kind of mired in how does the culture of 391 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,800 an organization accelerate or slow down those continuous 392 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,840 improvement efforts and what do you do about it when that 393 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,400 happens? So I'm actually working on a 394 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,280 book that enjoy OK. Are we hearing it first here? 395 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:13,960 Did is this an experience? You are hearing? 396 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,080 It first. It'll be out soon. 397 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:26,320 I love it. Culture is a large change 398 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,120 initiatives, any change initiative because a lot of 399 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:34,080 times what I've found in my experience, a lot of 400 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,320 organizations push out change. Hey, we want to do this big 401 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,360 thing, but they don't have the support and infrastructure to 402 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:48,520 move it from idea to execution and how culture fits. 403 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,040 A lot of times that resistance comes from not having that 404 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:59,560 structure in place and things being, I'll say past trauma or 405 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,600 PTSD from past transformation initiative. 406 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,360 That's where a lot of the resistance come from. 407 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,000 Oh, last time we did this, Oh, we did this before. 408 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,760 Oh, this didn't work. And this because what happened 409 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,400 was something didn't work or finally they finally got it 410 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,840 moving, but probably not in the direction it was supposed to go. 411 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,920 And people remember that it was. That's painful. 412 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,440 And so I think that that's where a lot of it comes from because 413 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:34,640 the culture is usually that leadership pushes something down 414 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:37,600 and you're just supposed to go execute, but nothing happens in 415 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,040 the middle. The planning. 416 00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:42,160 What is this going to look like? Is there a road map? 417 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,280 Do we? All need to do that. 418 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,560 Yeah, that's. Where the yeah, not having the 419 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,480 correct things in place can really 'cause PTSD and it just 420 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,440 gets worse as years go on. Yeah, if not addressed. 421 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,680 Yeah, Julia. I think you're spot on. 422 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,280 I think you're spot on with the PTSD when we're talking about 423 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,200 the when we're talking about leadership, you know, trying to 424 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,280 implement a change and pushing it down from the top. 425 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,320 And then the folks that are maybe on the front line, not 426 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,800 necessarily understanding where it's coming from or why it's 427 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,800 coming from, what why it's coming. 428 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,280 We're the middle, we are the middle. 429 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,960 So we're the people that are in there, that empathy, that 430 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,800 communication, that trying to get folks on board who are your 431 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,240 sneeze, getting everybody together. 432 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,040 We are the middle. That kind of brings that message 433 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,040 from the top to whoever needs to receive it. 434 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,640 And so I think we are the soothers and the people person I 435 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,640 said, but we're the soothers, right, of that PTSD and making 436 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,200 sure that people do trust you and people are going to listen 437 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,720 to you when you come and say that you're going to fix the 438 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,600 problem because you actually helped me fix this problem last 439 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,480 time. So, you know, your fifth time 440 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,600 talking to this guy should be a little easier than your first 441 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,160 time because you built the rapport and you are the middle. 442 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,320 You're helping everybody figure out how we actually make it 443 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,080 happen. And, you know, I don't think 444 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,360 that you are being over the top when you call this trauma 445 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,720 because organizations that do a lot of change and they don't do 446 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:13,080 it well, people get, I mean, it really can feel like trauma when 447 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,400 everything around you is changing and you have no control 448 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,040 over it. I mean, that seems like the 449 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:23,280 classic definition of trauma. And so people's emotions are 450 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,360 real. And I do think that's, you know, 451 00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:30,760 some of the process improvement mistakes I think that I've seen 452 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,600 in my past is that we get really focused on, well, everybody will 453 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,680 want to do this. It's clear it'll make things 454 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,920 better. But it but we've got to stop 455 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,960 just going by what the data says or what the metrics are going to 456 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,000 say. We actually need to like, help 457 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,320 people through that because it will feel very out of their 458 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,600 control. Yes. 459 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,680 And like you, I like how you put it and when you don't address 460 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:04,320 the trauma, what happens? But The thing is, we just go on 461 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,240 to the next thing and keep piling on the trauma. 462 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,160 Yes, Yeah. Like it never happened. 463 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,120 Yes. Which is exactly. 464 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:16,360 Yeah, which just adds to it. Yeah, you're so right. 465 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:21,000 You're so. I've been in organizations where 466 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,480 I've seen transformation done well and not so well, and there 467 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,840 is a huge difference. And that's actually what I'm 468 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,800 kind of talking about in my book, because when you 469 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,600 communicate, when you walk people through the change, when 470 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,840 you're even at the very beginning, hey, this is coming. 471 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,600 This is where we are, this is where we want to be. 472 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:44,920 This is how we're going to get there. 473 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,640 That lets people know you've put thought into it. 474 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,840 The whole organization, not just the people in the room, not just 475 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,480 the people that are expected to do something. 476 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,920 Because what happens is if you have the people in the room and 477 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,600 as Julia said, the people in the middle, we know something's 478 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,440 coming. We know that they want to go to 479 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,480 this new thing, whatever it is. The people in the bottom may 480 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:04,960 not. So when you go start talking to 481 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,360 them, it's like, I don't know what that is. 482 00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:08,160 What is it? Then you spend a lot of extra 483 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,080 time trying to bring them along, but they're never going to come 484 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,480 along because leadership hasn't really talked to them. 485 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,440 Yeah, and let's face it, if you're in the middle, if you're 486 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,240 leading people and even you don't know what's happening, 487 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,880 that energy carries. People know. 488 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,200 Absolutely. And a lot of spaces, I think, 489 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,480 and a lot of spaces that I've been in, these people have been 490 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,640 working here for 5/10/15 twenty years. 491 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,400 And so that layer of just always kind of feeling like it, I 492 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,640 didn't know about it or this is the first time that I'm hearing 493 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,560 about it. It is definitely real. 494 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,520 And getting those folks in there like Tawana saying giving them 495 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,880 the information they need is really key to getting them to 496 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,960 trust you so that you can get into the fix. 497 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:55,040 Yeah, Yep, exactly. One thing I would do when 498 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,680 working in process improvement, if I knew I was about to change 499 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,960 a process with a lot of operators or something like 500 00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:03,760 that, I would have the plant manager or somebody from 501 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,120 leadership come in. I said I need you to come in. 502 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:08,440 Even if it's 5 minutes. Tell them what we're about to 503 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,720 do. Tell them why, please. 504 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,200 You know what, I wasn't mean about it. 505 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,920 But hey, and sometimes I'll be even right up the spiel for 506 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,560 them. Here's what we're trying to do. 507 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,800 And, you know, feel free to answer any questions. 508 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:21,600 And then, you know, they would go on. 509 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,160 And then that made it easier for me to start talking about, OK, 510 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,480 here's what we're going to do, here's the change, and let me 511 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,240 walk you through it. And so that helped a lot. 512 00:28:36,970 --> 00:28:43,010 The importance of visible sponsorship and why that also is 513 00:28:43,010 --> 00:28:45,850 an essential part of that. Even if you tell them what to 514 00:28:45,850 --> 00:28:50,080 say, Even if you tell them where to show up, that's a really 515 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,640 important part of this because just like that bully in the 516 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,400 room, you got to get him on your side. 517 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,560 You, the leaders, have to look like they are on your side as 518 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,040 well. I think yes, we all need to look 519 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,480 like we are all marching in the same direction, yes. 520 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:10,320 Yeah, you're right, because that culture repeat where you've had 521 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,640 mistakes. And so if it doesn't look like 522 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,040 everyone's together, you can start to get into those patterns 523 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,360 of, Oh no, here it comes, another bad change. 524 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,080 Hey, so we've got some folks that are listening in and we're 525 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,960 going to take some questions. I'm just going to pop up our 526 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,400 little reminder here. We've got a couple of comments, 527 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,600 but if you've got questions for Tawana and Juliet, you can drop 528 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,560 that into our comments section because we want to know what do 529 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,960 you want to know about the what they've seen of process 530 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,240 improvement mistakes. So let's see, I think let me 531 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,680 just, I want to make sure that we talk a little bit about your 532 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,480 upcoming talk at BBC. It's more than a talk, it's a 533 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,760 tutorial. So it's like you're going to 534 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,000 give them a little bit more than just one hour's worth of your 535 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,480 tell us the name of your talk, of your tutorial. 536 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,200 Let's use the right word, Susan, and a little bit about what 537 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,400 they're going to get during that tutorial we would like to 538 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:17,680 answer. The title, so it's called pulse 539 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,920 check, a lean approach to process optimization. 540 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,840 And we call it pulse check because of the scenario we 541 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,760 decided to use. You have to come to the session 542 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,160 to see it. It's going to be, our sessions 543 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,120 are always fun. So I definitely say that, but 544 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,920 we're trying to give people a framework of how do you, well, 545 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,960 let me start here. I think the ideas, we didn't 546 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,840 talk about it like where did it come from? 547 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,920 A lot of times as we've been talking about process 548 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,600 improvement, it's pushed down, but realize that people that are 549 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,120 doing those processes, a lot of times they realize something is 550 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,320 wrong, but they're not always sure how to fix it. 551 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,240 Who do I go to? What do I do about it? 552 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,560 And so we were trying to give them a framework that they could 553 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,760 use on their own to identify issues, how to identify them, 554 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,640 what the issues look like, and symptoms. 555 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,840 And here's a few tools that you can use to fix those issues. 556 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,480 Yeah. I think you covered it pretty 557 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,440 well. There's some great scenarios and 558 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,600 great possible studies in the room. 559 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,720 I think we're going to have fun. We have a good time, but also 560 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,760 really give folks who are either, you know, maybe you're 561 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,360 really on the analytical, technical side, maybe you need 562 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,800 to figure out how to pull in that empathy, or maybe you're a 563 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,000 super people person and you need to figure out how to get a 564 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,160 little bit more specific. And so I think there's some 565 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,480 really good examples, some really good walkthroughs in the 566 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,080 session. Yeah, even just what we've 567 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,640 talked about today, I can see that you've got there's a little 568 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:51,720 something regardless of your business analysis preferences, 569 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,480 right. I'm a little more people person, 570 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,240 I'm a little more of a technical person. 571 00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,160 So I think that's. Actually, so we do have a three 572 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:05,040 hour tutorial, but you just hit our, we actually have a one hour 573 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,960 session as well. I can't remember if it's, I 574 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,320 think it's weird, yes, but we're talking about the analyticals 575 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,640 versus the creatives and how people kind of deal with each 576 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,560 other. Because when you get in the 577 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:17,720 room, you get them both in the room. 578 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,400 It's usually like this. Yes. 579 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,480 I need requirements, but we want it fun, you know, fun is not a 580 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,000 requirement. Why can't this be the same? 581 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,920 I don't. Yeah. 582 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,440 We're definitely going to talk about that at the conference as 583 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:31,680 well. Excellent. 584 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,120 All right, so they've got 2 opportunities to see you. 585 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,960 So if you're coming to BBC, that's the conference in 586 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:42,200 Toronto, first year ever that it's in Toronto, you want to do 587 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,200 both of these things. So make sure that you carve that 588 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,480 out if you're attending the whole 3 days, four days I think 589 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:54,400 is the link for this. Okey Doke, let's take a look. 590 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,520 We do have some comments, maybe some questions. 591 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,280 I'll just pop some things and some of these came up a little 592 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,960 bit earlier, so we'll see if we can connect them back to what we 593 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,760 were talking about. So this is from Joe. 594 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,600 What if executives see it as a problem and you are the BA 595 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,000 assigned to fix it, even when others don't think it's a 596 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,600 problem? Yeah, when the guys at the top 597 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,680 think it's a problem and nobody else does. 598 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,360 There's a reason why they think it's a problem and it's a matter 599 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,480 of, you know, those pre conversations. 600 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,440 Well, let's talk about it. How did you see it as a problem? 601 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:27,960 What made you think it was a problem? 602 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,840 Or based on what you see today, what would you like to see to 603 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,080 get a better understandings? They might not be telling you or 604 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:41,240 giving you a good example of why they think it's a problem. 605 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,480 And so, but you have to lead them down that road so that you 606 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,160 can understand why they think it's a problem. 607 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,160 And then for the people that don't think it's a problem, 608 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,680 that's a whole other conversation, same conversation. 609 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,120 So I know you have this process. How's it going? 610 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,240 OK, are you having any issues? OK. 611 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,960 And then you what about such a, you know, whatever it is that 612 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,080 the executive is thinking, what about this, the executive may be 613 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,240 looking at AP and L they may be looking at data. 614 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,760 We have to understand what they're looking at, the reason 615 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,440 why they think it's a problem because the people who are doing 616 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,199 what it said process, they are looking at P&L, they aren't 617 00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:20,400 looking at numbers, you know, So we have to understand where the 618 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,520 disconnect is and then address it. 619 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:29,560 Yeah, I think that is also an important thing. 620 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:35,679 Maybe sometimes we forget that somebody's assessment that it is 621 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:39,080 a problem doesn't mean it's everybody's assessment. 622 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,080 So digging in a little bit and understanding what why is it 623 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,760 that you're seeing this as a problem, but also making sure 624 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:50,239 that you get information from the other side and understanding 625 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,760 why they don't think it's a problem or what's, you know, 626 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,880 it's really important because sometimes I know if a leader 627 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,440 tells us to go fix something, we are inclined to go fix it. 628 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,680 But if not everybody agrees it's a problem, we've just created a 629 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,040 problem. Let's see. 630 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,600 All right, So here we've got another comment. 631 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,800 We are in the middle. And sometimes when we turn up, 632 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,600 they are finding about the. They're finding out about the 633 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,680 change for the first time. Yeah. 634 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,040 Yes, you are absolutely right, it happens all too often. 635 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,240 And that's why that, I think that's why that approach and 636 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:29,000 also that perception, right? When you're speaking to people 637 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,920 about what the problem is, it matters. 638 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,680 So if you're talking to someone in C-Suite, what you're going to 639 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,120 say is probably totally different from somebody who is 640 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,160 actually expected to go in and fix said problem. 641 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,720 And so oftentimes the latter ones are the ones that are 642 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:47,480 hearing of it for the first time and they're like, what and how 643 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,200 are we supposed to and what's going to happen? 644 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,240 And am I OK? Is my job OK, like I said. 645 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,360 And so their perception definitely feeds into the 646 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,880 communication and how we marry the two together. 647 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,800 And a lot of times I know for us when we're working, we are doing 648 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,720 them both simultaneously. So we're meeting with those 649 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:07,920 folks that are kind of bringing out that, you know, my P&L is 650 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,640 off, what's going on. We're marrying that with the 651 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,840 actual process and what's happening on the ground to 652 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,880 figure out how we connect the two, fix it. 653 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,600 Yeah. So thinking about our process 654 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:22,760 work as working from the outside in is kind of how I think about 655 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,400 what you're saying. Yeah, that can be really 656 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:26,720 important. Let's see. 657 00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:31,680 Here's another one as to be a part of the analysis is to 658 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,600 assess the culture and maturity of an organization for each 659 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,720 initiative. I think you do. 660 00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:43,800 And is there anything specific that you do around culture or is 661 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,880 that just something that you're kind of quietly assessing? 662 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:54,240 I would say probably quietly assessing because sometimes you 663 00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:57,320 know you have different models, add car and things like that to 664 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,640 help you do some assessments. Here's where we are that kind of 665 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,840 thing. But I would say for continuous 666 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,480 improvement, it's usually kind of quiet because we aren't 667 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,960 looking at the culture as close. We're usually looking at is this 668 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,720 thing broken or not and how do I fix it and what are where my 669 00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:15,920 stake, the culture will come out when you start talking to the 670 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,120 stakeholders and then you kind of address, which is why I say 671 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:20,800 we quietly accept. Yeah. 672 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,040 So it's a factor in the change, but not necessarily the thing 673 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,000 you came to change. Yeah, let's see. 674 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,520 All right, I think we do. Here's a question. 675 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,840 This is from Noor. How do we handle a situation 676 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,520 where the manager isn't comfortable making his support 677 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,040 visible in the room, though he is completely on our side do? 678 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,440 You ever have like it's on your side? 679 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,240 Yes, I was speaking. Of culture. 680 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:49,560 Oh. Yeah, I support you completely. 681 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:50,800 Yeah, I don't want anything to do with that. 682 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,960 Yeah, but don't fall on. Me two different statements and 683 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:59,200 and that is a the best. My guess would be the rest of 684 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:00,800 the organization is kind of like that as well. 685 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,520 Oh yeah, that's cool. And go the other way. 686 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,240 And so you, The thing is, you're going to have to find somebody 687 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:10,320 who is on your side, who is, if you need a leader in the room, 688 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,880 find one that is on your side and have them talk to the group. 689 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,280 Yeah, authentically on your side, not just saying not. 690 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,720 Yeah, because they'll turn on you real quick. 691 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,440 Yeah, right. And there, if that change 692 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,960 doesn't go well, oh, well, I don't know Tawana. 693 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,880 And that's Tawana and Julia. They did that. 694 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:31,680 Yeah. That's what you want to avoid. 695 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,800 All right, let's see. We've got another question here 696 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,280 from Masha. Thanks, Masha, what are some 697 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,040 examples of process improvements that you took up and the 698 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,200 mistakes that you have encountered? 699 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,440 So you've shared some of those, but is there any? 700 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,000 I know that there is, I know that there is probably 701 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,800 initiative that where you made what you might think of as like 702 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,440 the ultimate mistake. Have you had one of those 703 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,400 projects where you're like, let me tell you about this thing I 704 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:08,120 did? Think that one of my very first 705 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,440 projects, it's going to be ownership is the word for me and 706 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,600 making sure that we're aware of what their part is in this 707 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,320 improvement and the process overall that can quickly 708 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,520 snowball into it being you that owns it. 709 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,680 And now you're working inside of an improvement that you're 710 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,240 running essentially, you know, and chasing folks down and they 711 00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:34,040 want you to do XYZ. And when reality they should be 712 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,040 owning those improvements themselves that getting them to 713 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,160 own them upfront, it gives them a sense of what this has to be, 714 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:41,960 right? Because it's mine. 715 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,800 I do baby. I adopted a baby, right? 716 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,880 And so getting them to own it quickly saves you down the line 717 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,000 from having to own it yourself, which is very once you own, it 718 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,080 is really hard to get rid of it. And that is one of the largest 719 00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:59,400 first mistakes. Yeah, usually those early 720 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,280 mistakes are the ones that are the most long lasting I have 721 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,040 found in my career. Yeah. 722 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,720 All right, any anything for you to. 723 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,360 No, I think that's a really good one. 724 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,880 And I know exactly what she's talking about and I still call 725 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:20,360 her. That's hard because I think 726 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,960 sometimes we are made to feel like we should own these things. 727 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,320 But really we are there on behalf of a leader, a department 728 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,280 head of somebody. And so we've got to kind of see 729 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,520 our role in this as facilitating, not owning. 730 00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:38,640 So let's see, how about one more question. 731 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,000 This is from Aaron. How can you decide what 732 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,560 processes are worth mapping and what isn't? 733 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,680 If it's a simple e-mail response, do you skip it, or do 734 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,000 you err on the side of mapping everything, no matter how small? 735 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,080 I think that when it comes to process mapping, why are you, 736 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,320 was there an issue you always want to start out with? 737 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,480 What are the boundaries of this process? 738 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,400 Is it just an e-mail? What was the problem? 739 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,360 Sounds like there was probably a larger problem. 740 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,000 Are you trying to automate something, an e-mail response? 741 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:23,440 So it I'm really not sure how. It's probably need a little bit 742 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,200 more context. Yeah. 743 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,040 But I think, but I think what you're saying is maybe what he's 744 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:34,600 intending to ask here. And sometimes when I've gone in 745 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:39,120 on a continuous improvement kind of a project, I think about the 746 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:44,360 processes and layers. And if I'm at a, you know, and 747 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,880 maybe this is true for you guys, but sometimes you're looking at 748 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,840 the bigger picture. And from a process mapping 749 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,200 perspective, it could be valuable to like do a big map of 750 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,000 everything, but probably once you get two or three layers down 751 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,880 into what people are doing, it may not be as valuable, 752 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,320 especially if it's not the thing that needs to be fixed or 753 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,800 automated. Yeah, I see now. 754 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,920 So we're, if we're talking about, I was thinking this way 755 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,480 across the process, but if you're thinking in terms of 756 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:20,560 10,000 foot or 100, it depends on who's in the room. 757 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,120 It depends on what you're looking for. 758 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,800 If sending an e-mail is a part of that process, then you're 759 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:32,840 probably further down then as opposed to being up here, and 760 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:37,520 you probably do need to map it. You know, the receptionist sends 761 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:43,440 e-mail or something like that, but it's because it still goes 762 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,640 back to what you're mapping. But that e-mail is also a manual 763 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,680 step that they may not need to do. 764 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,920 And it could boil down to how many emails are they sending? 765 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,920 Do they have to send all of these emails? 766 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,400 Is it just because somebody requested it or is it actually 767 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,680 needed? Because sometimes people ask for 768 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,880 reports that they don't even look at. 769 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,480 So are people looking at the e-mail? 770 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,800 So in terms of a 10,000 foot versus A-100 footer, if you're 771 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:18,040 very low and you're if your process steps are like high 772 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:25,320 level we for us, you know, you take an order, you produce it 773 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,080 and you ship it, that's very high. 774 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,160 You there are no emails there. But if you're looking at further 775 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:38,680 down manufacturing receives it, manufacturing is going to order 776 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,360 product, manufacturing is going to make it that's kind of 777 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,920 middle. And then if you go a little 778 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,080 lower, that's where you're going to get into so and so sends an 779 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,400 e-mail. Yeah. 780 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,240 And where you may be impacting? Day-to-day outbreak. 781 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:55,880 Yeah. And if that's what you're there 782 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,080 to change, then it's probably worthwhile. 783 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:03,640 But if you are really looking at a higher level change, should we 784 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,440 have the receiving at this warehouse and this city, state, 785 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,080 country or this other warehouse? I probably don't need to get to 786 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,320 an e-mail level, so I do. And you guys probably talk about 787 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,440 that as part of the process, like what level are we trying to 788 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,960 change so that because your time is valuable as well. 789 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,920 If they're coming in and saying we don't like it that Susan is 790 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,400 sending an e-mail, Susan and her manager probably have the 791 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:32,440 ability to change that process. But if it's we really think that 792 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,840 it should be a different tool at a different location, it 793 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:40,320 probably is something that needs more managed, you know, a more 794 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,360 managed look. So yeah. 795 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,160 I think that's a part of that ownership conversation. 796 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,600 There's different owners at each of those levels. 797 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,800 Susan and her manager, the vice president of marketing, right? 798 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,480 Those are different conversations, to someone's 799 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:54,040 point. Yeah. 800 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,200 All right. Well, Aaron, thank you for that 801 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:57,360 question. All right. 802 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,200 Well, this has been fascinating today. 803 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:07,320 I love this topic and I think I'm going to try to sneak in to 804 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,920 your tutorial. So and I'll, I'm going to come. 805 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,080 I'm definitely going to come to your other talk. 806 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,840 I had that on my list of things, so thanks for reminding me. 807 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,760 That's on Wednesday. I want to thank you guys for 808 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,560 spending some time with me today to talk about this. 809 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:27,200 I have left it. Yeah. 810 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,720 All right. Well, I'll see you in a couple 811 00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:33,120 of weeks. So y'all take care. 812 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:34,920 We'll see you soon. Thank you. 813 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,240 And we want to thank you guys also for joining us today. 814 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,320 You've had some great thoughts. I see that you guys are also 815 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,760 kind of talking about this with each other in the comments, so 816 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:52,720 keep doing that when I see you. In a couple of weeks we are 817 00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:57,160 going to be live from BBC in Toronto and we're going to be 818 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,560 talking about the power of finding your people. 819 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,760 It's not necessarily about why you should come to BBC, but we 820 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,840 do want to talk about why it's important to put community 821 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,840 around the work that we do because we're not alone. 822 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,880 And going to conferences and being part of the business 823 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,200 analysis community can help you with some of those day-to-day 824 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,000 things that just come up in our work. 825 00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:23,200 So thanks everybody for joining us. 826 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,280 We'll see you in two weeks. Thanks for listening. 827 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,720 Do you have any questions, comments, or thoughts about 828 00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:30,560 today's topic? We'd love to hear them. 829 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,000 Drop us a review or leave a note in the comments. 830 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,200 Then like, subscribe or share this podcast if you like what 831 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,040 you heard. And hey, you can help us shape 832 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,440 future episodes. What do you want to know more 833 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,600 about? Send us an e-mail at Live at 834 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,440 iiba.org with your ideas. See you again on our next 835 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:46,960 episode.