1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:03,320 Welcome to Business Analysis Live. 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,560 I'm your host, Susan Moore, community engagement manager 3 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:09,480 with the International Institute of Business Analysis. 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,680 I explore topics with industry guests about the work of 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,600 business analysis professionals and how their work helps 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,840 organizations achieve better outcomes. 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,760 And Yep, we take your questions too. 8 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:21,760 Thanks for listening. Let's get started. 9 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,720 Have you thought about how your work adds value? 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,480 And if you haven't, that's OK, because today I've got a guest 11 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,480 who is thinking about that and writing about that. 12 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:43,080 She is a guest that you've seen before, and she is also someone 13 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,040 who joins us for webinars as well. 14 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,080 So I want to invite to the stage Laura Brandenburg. 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,240 Hey, Laura, how are you? Wonderful. 16 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,520 How are you doing today, Susan? I am doing really well. 17 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,960 Happy to see you in the New year. 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,320 We've been catching up and it's almost February. 19 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,760 So you asked the question, are we still saying happy New Year? 20 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,560 I guess, yeah. Well, it's not the Lunar New 21 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,200 Year yet. We actually have to like 22 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,280 February 17th for the Lunar New Year. 23 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:14,840 So, OK, good. All right. 24 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:19,000 Yeah. Well, hey listen, you have been 25 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,560 on a few times and maybe folks also know you from the webinars, 26 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,080 but in case people are not familiar with you, why don't you 27 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,720 just do a quick introduction? Sure. 28 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,840 So my work in business analysis is through Bridging the Gap. 29 00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:39,440 Had a career as a tester, a business analyst, a manager and 30 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,840 director of a BAQA and project management team at one point. 31 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,800 And then I pivoted to do some consulting work and then 32 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,400 ultimately into the training that I do today through Bridging 33 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,360 the Gap. So we bring a really practical 34 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,840 approach to training. And then I know we're also going 35 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:56,960 to talk a little bit about my recent book here, the Value 36 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,880 Driven Business Analyst, which is another one of the in ways 37 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,800 that I support the business community, but I've been doing 38 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,840 that for 17 years now. I've never stayed with an actual 39 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,440 company that long. So it feels like a a whole other 40 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,560 lifetime at this point. I think one of the first times 41 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,760 that you and I talked, I think I said something like, I hope this 42 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,040 doesn't sound creepy, but I've been following you for a really 43 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,840 long time and I remember when you started the business and so 44 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,080 that you know, Bridging the Gap. I think I am sure when you came 45 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,960 up with that name you were thinking specifically like how 46 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,080 our work bridges the gap, but also because of the audience 47 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,960 that you are trying to reach. You are also talking about like 48 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,480 professionally bridging the gap, which I always just thought was 49 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,440 super smart. The point like it becomes almost 50 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,520 like a cliche now, but seven years felt like the cool thing, 51 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,360 the whole world. Is down right. 52 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,400 You were just ahead of the curve 17 years ago. 53 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:01,960 Well, but even back then you had a pretty clear sense of the 54 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,000 value that business analysis brings. 55 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:10,920 Maybe talk about that and why you've written the book about 56 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,160 how this happens. Yeah. 57 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,760 I think, you know, as business analysts, we can get really 58 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:23,920 focused on the deliverables we create, our analytical models 59 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:27,520 like how we facilitate meetings, all of the how and the nuts and 60 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,560 bolts of our work, which is essentially important. 61 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,400 Like we need to have those skills and capabilities like 62 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,640 really tapped in. But like the value that we 63 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,840 create is above and beyond that. It's a result of those things. 64 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,800 And so when we're thinking about, you know, the bridging 65 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,000 the gap is a great metaphor in that because I was like, we are 66 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,760 bridging the gap between business and IT and not just 67 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,120 creating a funnel bridge like a communication line, but really 68 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,680 bringing people together, creating alignment, creating 69 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:06,480 clarity, really fostering a sense of positive outcomes and 70 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:11,960 positive for the organization. And so it's a really big piece 71 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,840 to be able to deliver that kind of value for the organization. 72 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:21,760 So tell me, Laura, what do you mean when you say value? 73 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,080 And let me give you a little back story. 74 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,360 I think there's been a little bit of controversy in our 75 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:33,000 business analysis community about value versus outcomes. 76 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:38,320 And I don't see that as a do we provide value or outcomes? 77 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,480 I think it's a both. We do both. 78 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:45,480 But what do you mean by value? Yeah, by value, it's really in 79 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:50,040 the eye of the beholder for a certain extent, but it's also 80 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,200 like it needs to inform how we show up. 81 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,000 But I guess from that, like we were talking about this before 82 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,640 and I'm like, I haven't seen this like dichotomy, but in my 83 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,480 mind, outcomes are valuable, right? 84 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:05,200 What the business outcomes want, what the business or what the 85 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,360 business wants in terms of outcomes is the value that we 86 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,840 help create. And everything that we do needs 87 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,120 to support that, whether it's a business process or a software 88 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,880 requirement or a data model or a well facilitated meeting that 89 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,640 makes a great decision. We were talking before we got 90 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,680 started about this analogy of the hammer. 91 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,240 And do you really want a hammer or do you want a way to hang a 92 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,480 picture on the wall or to like bash a hole in the wall, right? 93 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,760 Like there are other ways to achieve that that, and if you 94 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,640 could achieve that without a hammer, you'd probably be fine 95 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,840 with it. So, you know, when we think 96 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:41,440 about value, we might think about the the hammer, which 97 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,280 would be equivalent to a process map or a data flow or a 98 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:49,160 requirements document. But what's really important is 99 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,720 the outcome of like, what's the business change that we're 100 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,160 creating? How are we getting people on the 101 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,920 same page so that the software development happens as easily as 102 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,280 possible? And so when we're thinking about 103 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:03,960 our value as B as I think we want to be, thinking about the 104 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,440 outcomes we generate and making sure those are what the business 105 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,680 actually needs and wants from us, that sets us up for success 106 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,120 long term. Yeah. 107 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,640 I think outcomes are the means to value. 108 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,840 We've all been on those projects where we produce some outcome 109 00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:20,520 and people said, well, that doesn't help me. 110 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,600 That didn't solve my problem. You gave me what I asked for, 111 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,800 but it didn't help. And so but and I think there's 112 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,880 big picture value and then there's personal value. 113 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,840 What is as Susan Moore showing up in the organization? 114 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:38,440 What is the value that I bring to the organization? 115 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,360 And we also, you know, I do some volunteering and I think about 116 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:47,200 value in terms of 1st I, I believe in the mission of that 117 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,200 nonprofit organization. I want to be part of it and I 118 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:51,720 know I have skills that can help. 119 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,800 That's, that is value. It also implies a little bit of 120 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,960 confidence that I know these things. 121 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,440 And you know, you and I, you have talked to enough people 122 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,360 over those 17 years that you've been in business that you know 123 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:11,240 that sometimes that value is wrapped up in confidence. 124 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,720 So maybe let's talk about confidence a little bit as a, as 125 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,720 maybe a way that it we can show value or maybe not show value. 126 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,000 Yeah. I think when our confidence, 127 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:29,960 like our internal confidence is shaky, what happens is we tend 128 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:35,680 to shrink and be a little bit more wary about who we connect 129 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,440 with, how we reach out, what we put forward. 130 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,600 It's like we're waiting for somebody to tell us what to do 131 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,720 and more of a reactive nature instead of strategically and 132 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,240 proactively saying this is what we need to do to move this 133 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,360 project forward and to generate this value driven outcome, 134 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,800 right. So when we get stuck in that 135 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,880 confidence loop, we actually deliver less value because we 136 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:01,320 are waiting to be told what to do. 137 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,320 And that is not a place that a professional intentional 138 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,640 grounded business analyst can really thrive from. 139 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,120 So the way one of the ways around that or to work through 140 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,960 that is to really be centered in like I'm creating this process 141 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,400 map because I know it's the first step towards generating 142 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,160 this outcome and really be locked into each and every 143 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,720 technique that we're working on, each and every conversation 144 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,520 we're having. Moving that value needed needle 145 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,039 forward because that's going to help us generate that internal 146 00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:37,520 confidence because along the way we're going to face stakeholders 147 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,000 who don't show up and people who are like, what is the stock? 148 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,039 I don't need to do that, right? There's just going to be all 149 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:46,080 this noise. And if we let that noise like 150 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,840 really be our filter, it really impacts our confidence. 151 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,120 So we have to have that value from the inside out that how it 152 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,200 really helps us bring that confidence, which also helps us 153 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,880 deliver the value. They're really very intertwined. 154 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,400 And I think about that confidence also because we, when 155 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,400 we show up in spaces, it is, it's common that people don't 156 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,640 know why we're there. I mean, I've been asked that 157 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,760 question by stakeholders, by project managers, why are you 158 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:14,800 here? And that can shake your 159 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,560 confidence if you aren't really grounded in, I know I have the 160 00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:22,960 knowledge, I believe that I have the ability to help these folks 161 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,160 to untangle whatever the problem is that we're here to solve. 162 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,720 That comes with a little bit of maturity. 163 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:31,800 That comes with a little bit of experience. 164 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,760 But I think it all starts with knowledge. 165 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,760 And I think that's, you know, for the business that you've 166 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,600 built. My sense is because you talk to 167 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,920 and train a lot of folks who have professional experience in 168 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,560 one area and they're moving into this who probably don't have the 169 00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:51,520 confidence that, yeah, all of that professional stuff that 170 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,640 you've done in your life still matters, you can still apply 171 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,560 that. We're just gonna give you some 172 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,600 knowledge and some new areas. Yeah, I've trained BAS, to me 173 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,880 practicing BAS who have a decade or 20 years of experience, but 174 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,480 I've never actually learned the skill set. 175 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:14,080 And so I feel like I'm making it up as I go along and like they 176 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,760 go through a program and they're like, oh gosh, I've been, I've 177 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:17,960 done this. I've been doing this for a 178 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,200 decade, right? But like, there's a, there's 179 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,400 some, there's that internal confidence that comes when like 180 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:29,160 it matches up to my experience and it like, it fits like, OK, 181 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,800 there's a, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. 182 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,320 And then it allows you to get through that confidence loop a 183 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:35,720 little bit more effectively as well. 184 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,880 Yeah. And we do sometimes have to be 185 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,240 an authority figure on our projects. 186 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,000 Not that we have to know everything, but we have to 187 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,280 convey that sense of we've got a plan. 188 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,640 And actually that's what you and I talked about last year, right, 189 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,600 Having a framework and how that helps. 190 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,520 So that's another way that it can that we build value into the 191 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,720 work that we do. We have a an approach that will 192 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,280 drive the the momentum of our work. 193 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,640 So really important, but we do need to be that authority figure 194 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,920 because for those folks that don't know why we're there, 195 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,840 we've, you know, we've got to believe in ourselves and be able 196 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,760 to lead. So leadership, I think is also 197 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,680 another important value add that we can bring. 198 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,440 Yeah. So listen, we have talked about 199 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,600 a couple of ways that business analysis professionals add 200 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,440 valued. Are there any other ways that 201 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,800 you think that they add value? Yeah, I think one of the really 202 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,240 tangible ways to be tapped into is the idea of rework or 203 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,520 redecisioning, right. So when you have a structured 204 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,120 approach, and this is what's really in the book, is a 205 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,240 structured approach. We talked about it in the last 206 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:55,440 podcast too. Like you, you, you're helping 207 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,880 the team make a set of decisions and incrementally work through 208 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,360 decisions and thinking first about what problem are we trying 209 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,880 to solve, getting everybody aligned on where we're going at 210 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:06,920 a high level and then getting into the details. 211 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,920 And so that eliminates all this rework when we're not really 212 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,640 crystal clear and what we want. So we just like give a big 213 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,360 request to the development team and hope we get back something. 214 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,000 And then we are kind of in this like brick fix kind of mode for 215 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,880 a long time. And so as a business analyst, 216 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,240 you know you should, if your company has a history of that 217 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,760 brake fix or you think you've built something and then you're 218 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,160 constantly tweaking it until it actually meets the business 219 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,400 need. You know that look, looking at 220 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,760 that time and how you can condense that and ensure that 221 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:44,000 the requirements that get in are clear and vetted and represent 222 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,880 what really is going to solve the business problem. 223 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,920 It's going to save a ton of time on the development side, as is 224 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,560 the decisioning process. So like the decisioning process 225 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:57,520 is never easy and it's not that you're going to like wave a 226 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,320 magic wand and everybody's going to agree, But when you, what 227 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,040 will happen is if you really get clear on decisions, you know, 228 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,040 when that decision kind of just like, oh, wait, did we ever 229 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:09,120 talk? I don't think we talked about 230 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:10,520 this. Let's like react this whole 231 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,880 thing. Like those are the pieces where 232 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,000 you should be coming in. And like, you know, we talked 233 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,080 about this before. This is why we made the 234 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,560 decision. Like is there new information 235 00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:21,080 here? Is there a reason to revisit 236 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,240 this versus, you know, go up and down all these rabbit holes and 237 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,160 revisiting things and that saves an immense amount of time from 238 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:32,600 other team members and also just kind of angst and frustration. 239 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,360 I mean, everybody has way too much to do these days. 240 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,360 And so when you're pulling people into meetings and then 241 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,520 they're frustrated about why they're there, that's the kind 242 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,040 of chaos that we're looking to minimize and hopefully eliminate 243 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:46,560 as a business analyst. Yeah. 244 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:50,040 So I hear you saying that another part of the value that 245 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,800 we can add is simply by applying our skills to our own ways of 246 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,360 working, whether it's to our own own personal way of working, our 247 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,760 team's way of working, or the organization's way of working, 248 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,960 we can apply that lens there. And that can help us with 249 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,720 outcomes in indirect ways. Because you're right, rework and 250 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,160 decision making are two of the things that can derail work. 251 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,680 But if we can help people to make decisions faster, better, 252 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,000 whatever, that actually can speed up work in ways that are 253 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,200 not. We need more sprints, we need 254 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,200 more deliverables, right? It can just help us get, I think 255 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,280 Angela Witt calls it like we can get to a better decision 256 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,720 velocity. We can make decisions faster. 257 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,800 Yeah. So, All right, well, so let's 258 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,600 talk about, I feel like if we want to talk about value, maybe 259 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:49,160 we got to talk a little bit about AI and how I know do we? 260 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,440 I feel like that's so 2025. That's like that went the way of 261 00:14:53,440 --> 00:15:00,760 6-7 really. They're going on to the last 262 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,240 threat, but they don't like it when I say it. 263 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,280 If I say it, it's totally cool. Because, you know, as a mom, 264 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,720 there is a, there is an inherent not cool factor, just 6-7 265 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,560 that's, you know, but I feel like one of the ways that 266 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:21,320 organizations or technology, whatever are telling us that we 267 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:27,960 can be valuable is by using AI is that does AI add value to us, 268 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:29,760 to our work? What do you think? 269 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:37,200 Yeah, I think the current applications of AI really do 270 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,520 focus on productivity for the business analysts, right, and 271 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,560 creating deliverables more quickly, helping you identify 272 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,480 questions that you can ask. I just recently used it with a 273 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,920 pro bono client I'm working with to help identify solution 274 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,320 options. Like I uploaded our scope and 275 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,840 was like, what are some tools that we could use for this 276 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,520 document signing piece? And like that work would have 277 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,560 taken me multiple developer meetings and like in the past, 278 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:07,360 right? And but I was able to do that 279 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,280 research using AI. So I think the productivity 280 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,320 enhancements are huge and we want to certainly be looking at 281 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,960 where we can use it to, to do our work more effectively, but 282 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,400 we can't focus just there. We also then want to look at 283 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:27,880 with that energy freed up, where can we focus that time and where 284 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,920 can we focus that energy in ways that will create more value. 285 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,160 And I think that's where the opportunities for more intent, 286 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,080 intentional collaboration, the relationship building, the 287 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,640 things that people have been saying for a long time, like my 288 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,720 meeting calendars too full, right? 289 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,200 And, and maybe we now have a little bit of capacity for some 290 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:51,320 of those conversations that we didn't have before as well as 291 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,360 then, like if you're going to use AI for some of the basics 292 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,920 that speeds up some of the basics, where are there new 293 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,920 deliverables that maybe you can create that are truly going to 294 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,840 be valuable from the organization standpoint? 295 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,040 So not just the requirements documents, but could you help 296 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,520 draft the test cases or some help documentation or FAQs or 297 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,800 training materials And really using AI to do those things or 298 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,040 at least get to the 80% on those things that allows you to kind 299 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,920 of create another set of work that is super valuable. 300 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,040 Like you wouldn't want to do it just to do it, but that you 301 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,599 maybe just didn't even have time in the past to do. 302 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:33,480 And so we really got to look at where can I not just do more, 303 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,080 but where can I engage at a higher level? 304 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,000 And so because now these tools are supporting some of the 305 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,080 basics. Yeah, I think there is a lot of 306 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:49,840 hype around Guy and what it can truly do for our work because I 307 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:55,240 do think so much of our work is wrapped up in our connections to 308 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,920 our stakeholders, our customers, our clients, like the humans 309 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,400 that we work with. And in a lot of ways, we are 310 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:09,560 almost solely one of the only roles that where we are tasked 311 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,840 with that human communication because so many other groups 312 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,960 that we work with have a have another kind of output or 313 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,680 outcome that they deliver. They're developing code, they're 314 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,480 testing apps, they are, you know, working in finance. 315 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,320 But we really are communication is our collateral. 316 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:34,000 And so I think, you know, AI can be helpful. 317 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,120 It can also really not be helpful. 318 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:40,800 And so I think you've got to know that fine line between when 319 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,760 you're going to get some return on investment. 320 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,560 But I think making a real focused effort on some of the 321 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,000 things you just talked about, collaboration, relationship 322 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,680 building, we think it's not important. 323 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,360 I'm just talking to so and so in the break room. 324 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,240 It's so important. It's really important. 325 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,360 Yeah. And where ICBAS get into fear 326 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:05,880 around AI, it's like if you historically associated your 327 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:12,280 value with the documents, right? And AI can create wonderful 328 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,560 looking documents, but they might be 80%, right? 329 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,400 If you're lucky, if you had a really good prompt and gave it 330 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,240 really good context, that document could be 80% right, 331 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,720 which should save you time, but it doesn't replace the context 332 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,200 you give it, the structure you give it kind of prompt you're 333 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,560 at. Like, you know, when you think 334 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,360 about all that goes into that. So if you're getting a great 335 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:37,720 looking document with a really easy AI prompt and you think 336 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,640 you're done, like I've had people like, how do I now 337 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,000 validate this? Or what is the role of A, the BA 338 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,600 of A is creating the document. Like you still have to validate 339 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,560 that that's what the stakeholders actually want. 340 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:51,560 Like just because you have a document doesn't mean you're 341 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,560 done. But if historically that's how 342 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,480 you've really linked into your value, you do have to really 343 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,000 shift that and thinking about something a little bit more. 344 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,920 Like it's not just about that deliverable, it's about the 345 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,480 understanding and the clarity and like getting everybody on 346 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,240 the same page or on that content, which currently a guy 347 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:09,960 does. Not, yeah. 348 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:14,160 So thinking about the skills that would normally have gone 349 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,080 into the development of that. So it is the analytical 350 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,840 thinking, the systems thinking, the, you know, being able to 351 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,000 validate information to be able to trace it back to something 352 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,240 that is a need, something that you heard. 353 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:34,360 Those are, you know, again, I think it is taking it up a level 354 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,200 because that's you're right. If I only think about my value, 355 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,760 if and you know, I may be in an organization that signals that's 356 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,240 my value. So how do you help those folks? 357 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,360 Like, what are the things that you say to folks who are like, 358 00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:53,040 well, my organization defines my value and I just push paper? 359 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,800 Yeah. And that's where you're looking 360 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:03,960 at what is the ultimate outcome that they're looking for on a 361 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,760 project level or an initiative level or a value stream level. 362 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:13,320 And then, you know, up to posing to them some additional ways 363 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:18,000 that you could enhance the value or you could add to that. 364 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,040 So you and you barely like when you're an organization that sees 365 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,000 you one way, you almost have to take the risk and start to do 366 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,320 something different and contribute in a new way so that 367 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,400 you they're like, oh, I see how this can work, right? 368 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,640 And so you have to constantly be pushing the envelope and 369 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,760 stepping outside that sort of constructive role in order to 370 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,520 really generate something, you know, start to shift that 371 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,440 perception because, yeah, it's not a great place to be. 372 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,800 That to me is like, you're on the road for whatever the next 373 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,520 cost cutting initiative is. If you've been kind of winnowed 374 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,400 into that little box, like not to, you know, I know it's a 375 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,320 scary time. I don't want to add to the fear. 376 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,120 But like if you're like content with that box and like if that 377 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:04,480 box is not sustainable over the long term, unfortunately. 378 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,480 Yeah, right. And it is really about showing 379 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,240 your value sometimes. That is the first step sometimes 380 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,640 here, what are the things I can tell my manager or my boss's 381 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,400 boss about what I do? Well, the first thing you can do 382 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,160 is you can show them. And so that's showing them what 383 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,800 it is that you can produce, not a deliverable, but what are what 384 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,160 is the outcome? What is the decisions like? 385 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,520 Connecting your work with something that has moved the 386 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:36,920 organization forward is a first step in showing your value. 387 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,160 And then like, don't be so humble about it because you know 388 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,880 how business analysts are. Yeah, I did that thing and I 389 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,240 just like. This is actually like we did 390 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,760 that thing. It's always we Oh yeah, whole 391 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,200 story. I tell my book about like, it's 392 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,720 not like, yes, we were always part of a collective. 393 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,440 Nothing in business analysis happens alone, but also none of 394 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,080 those outcomes would have happened if you were not in the 395 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,720 room. And so like finding the I, the 396 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,640 piece that you contributed and really owning that is just as 397 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,120 important. Yes, absolutely. 398 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:19,320 And so I think let's, let's talk about your book a little bit. 399 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,960 And we should tell folks in addition to that book, you've 400 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:30,000 got a framework in there and you have got a three-part series, 401 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,600 webinar series that's coming up with IIBA on that uses this 402 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,920 framework. And, and so if you're a member, 403 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,000 this is exclusive to you. I did not grab, I did not grab 404 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,640 the link. So I'm gonna let you talk a 405 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,920 little bit about that framework. I'm gonna go grab the link. 406 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,440 Sounds good. So in the book, I walk you 407 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,240 through an 8 step framework for how to approach and project or 408 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,440 initiative or change as a business analyst. 409 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,760 So starting with getting oriented, which could be like, I 410 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,600 got an e-mail and I got to start working on something through 411 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,640 defining business objectives, clarifying scope, coming up with 412 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,960 your deliverable plan, working through the detailed 413 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,760 requirements, supporting the business and technical 414 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,800 implementation teams, and then assessing the ROI at the end. 415 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,560 So in this upcoming three-part webinar series with IBA for IB 416 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,240 members, I'm super excited because we're going to use that 417 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:30,520 framework as a way to for, to help you appreciate your value, 418 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,080 the value you're already generating in the role you are 419 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,680 today. To actually like give a clear 420 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:41,080 picture of that and then assess your process or your practice to 421 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,320 look at where you're being maybe reactive and proactive 422 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,880 opportunities to be proactive or proactive to add maybe a piece 423 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,800 or take away a piece that's not working. 424 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,920 And to look at the opportunities to refine and improve your 425 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,720 practice. And then we'll like actually 426 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,960 look at one of your opportunities to help you choose 427 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,000 which one to implement next. And then the third part, we're 428 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,080 then going to work through how do we actually make that change? 429 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,120 Who do we need to get on board? How do we need to think about 430 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:13,560 this? Do we even need to get anybody 431 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,600 on board or do we just start it? What does it look like? 432 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,320 What's the measurable success that we're looking for as a 433 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,800 result of this? So the webinar series is going 434 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,000 to walk us through that whole process. 435 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,880 And I'm also really excited because we're bringing both AI 436 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,120 and collaboration to this Ida webinar format in a new way. 437 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:34,920 We're using a new tool that's going to allow us to facilitate 438 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,520 breakouts where you can have actual conversations with other 439 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,640 people from the community, but then we're also going to be able 440 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:45,600 to get data, like AI driven data insights from those breakouts, 441 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,800 all anonymous, but that we can share back because it's a 442 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,320 three-part webinar series. So we'll be able to kind of file 443 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,720 some insights based on the things that you share with your 444 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,560 peers, share those back so that we can all learn from that data 445 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,640 together. I'm really excited to see how it 446 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,280 unfolds. It's a bit of we've, I've 447 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,960 experimented with some of this in my own smaller training, but 448 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,400 this is like another level of of collaboration that AI use. 449 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,920 So thank you Susan. You've done a lot of work behind 450 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,000 the scenes to Yeah, this all happened. 451 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,400 So we are excited about this tool. 452 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:20,000 The tool is called Natter and they are an AI tool. 453 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,520 They use some of the same features that a lot of us may be 454 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,800 familiar with that this concept of a breakout room, except in 455 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,240 this breakout room, you know, you are limited to as the 456 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:35,320 speaker, you can only show up in maybe 1-1 or two rooms over the 457 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,360 course of a webinar. You can't appear everywhere. 458 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,480 Also, sometimes those breakout rooms are really big and it 459 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,480 prohibits a lot of individual discussion. 460 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,400 But with this tool, we have the ability to put just two people 461 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,440 into a room for you to be able to talk to each other. 462 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,200 And then we anonymize all of that data and we we can start to 463 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,840 talk about and learn from those conversations. 464 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:01,120 So, you know, we were talking about AI is so 2025, but also 465 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,760 we're using it for the series, so whatever. 466 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,760 So it's a three-part series here I created here's that it's 467 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,360 called How to amplify your value and each part has a specific 468 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:15,640 subtitle to it where we go through that. 469 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,440 If you are a member, you can sign up. 470 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,840 If you're not a member, do this because I was Laura and I were 471 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,680 kicking around. If we could maybe make that 472 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,480 first one open to the public. I need to do a little bit of 473 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,040 work behind the scenes. So if it is something you're 474 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,960 interested in here, I'll pop this. 475 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:34,080 Nope. Yeah. 476 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,160 There you go. e-mail me live@iba.org. 477 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,040 Let me see if I can figure out how to get you a code or 478 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,960 something if you want to join us for that first one. 479 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,800 Because it's really, in some ways, it'll be really familiar, 480 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,360 but in some ways it'll be kind of a new experience. 481 00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:50,480 OK, let's turn off some of these things here. 482 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,160 Whoa. All right. 483 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,280 Well, I tell you what, because I have now found some of our 484 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,760 questions. Do you want to take a couple of 485 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,240 questions or is there anything else? 486 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,720 OK, All right, so let's let me go here. 487 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,320 So again, I'm just reading from my phone. 488 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,400 All good. So this the fast things happen 489 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,680 in the Jazz, right? Right, right. 490 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,960 OK. This is more just kind of an 491 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,200 observation from Lefabo. So thanks for joining us today, 492 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,680 Lefabo. I'm a big believer in AI as an 493 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,400 assist for business analysis. That definitely helps speed 494 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,720 things up. But I've noticed the churn and 495 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,160 expectations that increase alongside it. 496 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,440 I agree with Laura that one of the strongest use cases is 497 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,280 helping with testing scenarios and validating options more 498 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,600 quickly. Yes, yeah, great point. 499 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,320 Yeah, I think to that point too, like we need to be really 500 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,120 cognizant about what it can and cannot do and be educating. 501 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,960 Like, and you could even say here's how I used AI, here's the 502 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,160 type of results I got, here's the work I still had to do 503 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,440 because that's a global, like a leader at a high level. 504 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,120 Like you're just looking at, oh, like this stuff gets easy now or 505 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,880 that's unnecessary or these things and things are certainly 506 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,480 collapsing and that is going to create a lot of internalized 507 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,280 pressure and change. Like we're all feeling this 508 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:18,840 right now. So if you were feeling that you 509 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,680 were certainly not alone, but also like educating on well, 510 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,600 here's the what I really got back and here's what I needed to 511 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,720 do to make it work for me. Like, yes, it's helped. 512 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,680 Like you don't want to be the naysayer of like it's not 513 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,200 helpful, but yes, it's helpful. And here's where I'm still doing 514 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,320 the pieces, like in educating your manager, your leaders about 515 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,760 the the feasibility of their expectations. 516 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,480 Yeah, because I think that discussion around it's, it is 517 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:51,000 still important for us to put quality information in front of 518 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,000 our stakeholders because if we don't, we lose trust and that 519 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,160 just destroys every everything that we do. 520 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,320 It kind of, you know, it poisons all of the activity. 521 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,840 So we need to be seen as a credible team. 522 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,360 And so in order to do that, I have to take time to validate 523 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,400 those outputs even if I got them faster. 524 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,560 So. All right, Let's see. 525 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,520 Robert Snyder. You probably met Robert. 526 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,360 Yeah. Robert is has joined us today. 527 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,400 He adds a decision Symphony shapes, impressive decision 528 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,080 speed. The synchronization skill of the 529 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,200 boss dictates the speed of the team. 530 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:29,920 Yep. And he continues. 531 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,240 AI doesn't solve our meeting gridlock or communication 532 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,440 traffic jams. Absolutely. 533 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,920 Yeah. And I just just want to speak to 534 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,320 Robert's comment like, yes, it doesn't solve that law, GM, but 535 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,800 you can use AI to input like your perceived profiles of the 536 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,120 people that are coming into the room. 537 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,960 Maybe what you sense their objections are like objectives 538 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,880 are the outcomes they want. What you sense their objectives 539 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,680 objections are of like what are their issues with it? 540 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,600 And ask for what are some creative ways to frame this 541 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,560 right? Or what are some ways that I 542 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,280 could pull some common threads between these two people who 543 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,400 disagree? Like where might I find? 544 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,400 And so just like I find like using AI as that Co creative 545 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,880 thinking partner to like think through, you might come up with 546 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,520 some creative ideas. And again, it's probably going 547 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,520 to give you 10 ideas that don't work and maybe three that do. 548 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,840 So that's where your human assessment and validation comes 549 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,800 in. But just to think about how 550 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,720 could I manage this conversation in a different way and what are 551 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,120 the perspectives I want to draw from? 552 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,160 I finally AI gives me great ideas I might not have thought 553 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,760 of on my own. Yeah, I that I think is one of 554 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,040 its absolute strengths because sometimes we are bound by 555 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,720 whatever, you know, are the technology we work in, the 556 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,640 relationships that we have our own biases and sometimes AI can 557 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,080 just make a bunch of connections that we would never think. 558 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,080 So if you are looking for options and you just want to go 559 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,480 a little bit crazy, AI is great for that and then you get to 560 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,880 take the ones that you think really could work or be expanded 561 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,000 on. So I agree. 562 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,440 Here's a question. What requests or demands does 563 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,760 the business analysis profession have of adjacent professions or 564 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,600 titles so that all of us increase value? 565 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,360 And you know what, you and I were talking about this. 566 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,240 What about those people that don't have a title of business 567 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,840 analysis, but value is clearly important to their work? 568 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,080 What you know, what do you think about that? 569 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,120 And I'll ask it again since I was what request or demands does 570 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,720 the business analysis profession have of adjacent professions and 571 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,200 titles? Yeah, I think the most honest 572 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,000 and impactful request is just shared communication, right? 573 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,960 So sitting down with those roles or those people and clarifying 574 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,480 roles beforehand. But then also like, I would 575 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,280 really love if you call me in if this kind of issue comes up, 576 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,600 like once you've handed off a set of requirements to 577 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,240 developer, like please, if you have any questions or if you 578 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,800 find yourself making an assumption that you just like, 579 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,000 I'm here if you want to test it out, Like if you see somebody 580 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,480 changing the decision, please call me in. 581 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,520 Or if you hear somebody talking about a change, like, you know, 582 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,560 just like what communication do you want to be a part of so that 583 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,440 people are listening? You know, one of the problems we 584 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,360 have today is often we just invite everybody to a meeting 585 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,120 and then everybody's calendar is full. 586 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,960 And there's a lot of people who are just like listening in. 587 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,560 Like, can other people be listening in for you? 588 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,760 So you don't have to be physically present and you can 589 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,160 really focus intentionally on your work and know that you'll 590 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,800 get called in if you need to. That's what I would ask from the 591 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,560 other people on my team. Yeah, yeah. 592 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,440 All right, let's see. Looking through here for some 593 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,960 other questions. Please don't hesitate. 594 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,120 Ask us a couple of questions. We've got a few extra minutes. 595 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,360 Here's another question. Historically, mathematicians who 596 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,200 work to solve people's problems weren't specialist of a certain 597 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,000 domain. Should business analysis 598 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:13,320 professionals live up to a similar take on problems just 599 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,040 being generalist? And I apologize, I don't know if 600 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,199 it was me or you, but there was a bit of a delay. 601 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:21,440 Could you just read that one again? 602 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,840 Yes, there was a delay. It might have been me. 603 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,880 I'm scrolling. I'm usually I turn off all my 604 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,920 devices. So it's it might be me. 605 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:35,120 This question is from Hisham. Historically, mathematicians who 606 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,520 work to solve people's problems weren't specialists, they were 607 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,520 generalist. So should business analysis 608 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,679 professionals try to live up to a similar take a similar 609 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,600 approach? You know, we've been, we were 610 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,639 talking about how I've been doing this for 17 years. 611 00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:53,280 This was like what I thought was the hot topic 17 years ago. 612 00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:57,240 It was like, oh, we're like, you know, the front, the 613 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,600 organization or the VA role was often very specialized and we 614 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,040 were I the VA was a lot newer than than it is now. 615 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,440 And it was just this groundwork around the generalist BA. 616 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,640 And we are, you know, I'm a pragmatist sort of by design. 617 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,000 And here we are 17 years later and it is an even bigger 618 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,480 problem. The role is even more 619 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,240 fragmented. The layers of expertise that are 620 00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:26,200 expected are often even deeper. So theoretically, sure, like 621 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,320 yes, as ABA you can switch industries, you can go into new 622 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,040 environments. You offer a great perspective. 623 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,920 Pragmatically, if you are in the job market looking for a role 624 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,960 right now, I would say focus on those areas of expertise or 625 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,920 tangential areas of expertise and to, you know, once you get 626 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,760 in, perhaps you can widen your role and look more generally. 627 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,680 But like, it's a hard, it's a harder and harder fight. 628 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,120 And I just, I don't see the like, industries want what they 629 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,360 want. And yes, we can do magical 630 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,880 things outside of our areas of expertise, but the reality is 631 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,040 that people are looking for those. 632 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:03,360 Yeah. Should we? 633 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:08,480 I don't know, you know. It depends which is the typical 634 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,400 answer for our profession. It depends. 635 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:16,680 You know, I work with some adjacent communities who include 636 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,520 business analysis, but they are deeply experienced and 637 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,080 knowledgeable in things like a, you know, platform. 638 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:30,720 So whether it is JD Edwards or SharePoint or Vanessa Grant 639 00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:35,800 joined us last year, we talked about Salesforce and you know, 640 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,440 that kind of deep expertise is really good because there is a 641 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,640 market for that. And also they're still dealing 642 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,080 with the kinds of big picture questions that everybody in our 643 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,240 community deals with, which is how do I get stakeholders to, 644 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,920 you know, to tell me what their needs are? 645 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,480 How am I putting this together so I get the outcomes that 646 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,600 matter to them? You can still be very deeply 647 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,000 specialized in an area and still do a lot of this, you know, this 648 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,960 kind of business analysis work that so, you know, it depends. 649 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,000 And by the way, there are a lot of people who really enjoy that 650 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,800 kind of deep, you know, deep knowledge in a particular area. 651 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,560 So I'm with you. I it just. 652 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,760 And the opportunity is to bring the foundational skills of 653 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,080 business analysis into those roles, right? 654 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:31,360 Versus trying to pull the expertise out of the roles. 655 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,320 But like, let's layer the business analysis in because 656 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,760 they do feel like they're making those parts up as they go along. 657 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,600 Often like, oh wait, there's a way to do this that is like 658 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,320 teachable and learnable and repeatable versus just I got to 659 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,200 work from my expertise and kind of figure the rest of it out as 660 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,680 I go along. Yeah. 661 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,840 And I know you've actually talked to that Salesforce 662 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,280 business analysis community about that. 663 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,480 And I know I've when I join the Quest Oracle community that 664 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,200 deals with things like PeopleSoft and JD Edwards, they 665 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,840 also feel that same way. I really know my platform, but 666 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,600 I'm not sure about this other stuff that I need to be doing. 667 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,800 And so if you do bring that general knowledge of business 668 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,360 analysis, you really can be helpful to those specialists in 669 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,600 ways that maybe you didn't think you could. 670 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,320 So yeah, so it's. A huge opportunity in AI now 671 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,600 too. I just had like an AI analyst 672 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,360 ask me like, well, is this process really relevant for AI? 673 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,920 Like my AI team like and like, yeah, yes, right, yes. 674 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:37,680 Especially. Yes. 675 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,840 Yeah, Yeah. So, All right, Well, let's see. 676 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,560 Hey, you know what? We've made it work today. 677 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,160 Yeah, even though I'm, we're not seeing all of the comments, I, 678 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,840 we've done a pretty good job. Well, let's see, let's wrap this 679 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,920 up. And so let's remind folks first 680 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,360 pop up your book. Let's and tell them how. 681 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,920 Where can they find it? Yeah, so you can go to 682 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:08,200 bridging-the-gap.com/value with hyphensbridginghyphens.hyphengap.com 683 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,960 and that will list all the different Amazon stores it's 684 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,240 available on. If you do not see your country 685 00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:18,320 listed most often it's available through the US most people who 686 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,840 are the.com U.S. website. Or you can just go to your 687 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,360 version of Amazon and look up the Value Driven Business 688 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,040 Analyst or put my name in and you'll see it there. 689 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,440 Available in print and Kindle. Awesome. 690 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,960 And then just as a reminder, how to amplify your value? 691 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,960 Part 1 starts Wednesday, February 8th. 692 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:43,880 I dropped the link into 18th, 18th, and I think we're doing 693 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,560 it. Basically the second one is 694 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,440 March 18th I think, and then I think in April, the last Part 3 695 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,440 is like the 14th or something. But if you go to the first 696 00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:59,200 registration page, not only can you register for those, you can 697 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,120 also see the dates of parts two and three and register all from 698 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,240 the same page. It is. 699 00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:08,360 A member exclusive, but I'm going to try to figure out how 700 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,240 if you're listening to the podcast, how I can get you a 701 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:15,640 code and you can join us at least for that Part 1 and I 702 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,760 don't anything else we need to tell folks today. 703 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,920 I'd be happy to connect with you on LinkedIn as well, so if 704 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,040 you're followed along please reach out. 705 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,840 And if you have any follow up questions, feel free to reach 706 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,160 out as well. I know sometimes it can be a 707 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:31,680 little scary to post your comment. 708 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,560 But I can attest Laura is not scary. 709 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,160 So feel free to ask her questions. 710 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,320 She'll answer you. All right. 711 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,880 Well, Laura, thank you again for joining us. 712 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,520 And you always bring such a great perspective. 713 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,920 And I'm looking forward to this webinar series. 714 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,080 It's really going to be something unique. 715 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,480 So if you're listening, you're a member. 716 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,440 Please join us because I think. It would be, yeah. 717 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,120 And it'll be like, how could we use this for our business 718 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,000 analysis work, right? Like that would be, we're 719 00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:03,200 exploring it here as a community, but wouldn't it be 720 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,760 kind of cool if you had a big workshop to be able to do 721 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,200 something like this too? So. 722 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,320 Exactly. I'm sure the folks at Natter. 723 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,520 Would love to I. Would love so would love to hear 724 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,400 that they because this is really a cool platform. 725 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,800 All right. Well, thanks again for joining 726 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,080 us today, Laura. Thank you so much for having me, 727 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:22,480 Susan. Take care. 728 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,600 All right. Well, that's it for today. 729 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,480 Thanks for joining us. We're going to be back in two 730 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,200 weeks and in two weeks we're going to talk about what is 731 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,200 change leadership. Change is a constant in our 732 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,840 work, but there is a lot of discussion in some spaces not 733 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,400 typically thought of as business analysis circles where they talk 734 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,520 about change leadership. We've got a guest who runs one 735 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,440 of those conferences and is part of that community, and she's 736 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,800 going to share more about that. Hey, I want to thank you guys 737 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,200 for joining us today. We will see you in two weeks. 738 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:58,400 See you then. Bye. 739 00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:02,080 If you're hearing this, you made it to the end of the episode. 740 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,440 Thanks for listening. Do you have any questions, 741 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,360 comments or thoughts about today's topic? 742 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,240 We'd love to hear them. Drop us a review or leave a note 743 00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:11,720 in the comments. Then like, subscribe or share 744 00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:13,480 this podcast if you like what you heard. 745 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,000 And hey, you can help us shape future episodes. 746 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,680 What do you want to know more about? 747 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,840 Send us an e-mail at Live at iiba.org with your ideas. 748 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:23,880 See you again on our next episode.