1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:05,640 Quite often strategies I see there are 200 pages of strategy 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:10,160 analysis and to me the results of strategy analysis is not 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,440 strategy. Welcome to Business Analysis 4 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,480 Live. I'm your host, Susan Moore, 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,800 community engagement manager with the International Institute 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,960 of Business Analysis. I explore topics with industry 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,800 guests about the work of business analysis professionals 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,920 and how their work helps organizations achieve better 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,000 outcomes. And yet, we take your questions, 10 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,400 too. Thanks for listening. 11 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:39,640 Let's get started. We're going to talk about 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,320 strategy today. Not a topic that we get to talk 13 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:48,520 a lot about, but it is increasingly requiring business 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:54,240 analysis professionals to step up and step in to the work of 15 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,280 organizations and the strategy work that they're doing. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,680 And so you might be asking yourself, well, what does that 17 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,840 mean strategy and specifically, what would I bring to the table? 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:11,040 I scoured the world for an expert on this, and I have her 19 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,520 today. She is joining us all the way 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,920 from Warsaw, Poland. I want to invite to the stage 21 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:19,640 Elena Shukova. Hello. 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:21,760 Oh my God. Hello. 23 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,640 Hello, Susan. Hello, everyone. 24 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,680 Oh, my God. Your introduction is so 25 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:31,080 positive, so amazing. Well, thank you for inviting me. 26 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,880 Well, I love having you. I have had the pleasure of not 27 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,160 only getting to work with you virtually over the years, but 28 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,920 also meeting you in person several times here in the United 29 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,200 States. And they're in Poland, so, and 30 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,920 I'm looking forward to seeing you again this year in Warsaw 31 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,520 for the Poland Summit. Maybe we can give them a little 32 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,240 shout out as well because it's a fantastic event. 33 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,400 Same here, yeah. You know, if this is the 34 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,960 occasion, of course the guys come, come, and it's an amazing 35 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:02,840 event, Yeah. And it's in Poland and it's in 36 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,760 Warsaw. So it's so close to America, 37 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:06,160 right? It's. 38 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,240 So close. It's so close to America. 39 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,840 Well, hey, listen. So today's topic we're talking 40 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,360 about turning strategy into results. 41 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:20,360 And before we dive into that topic, I, I want people to get 42 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,520 to know you a little bit more. Tell the audience about 43 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,320 yourself. OK. 44 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,600 In a few words, as you said before, right now I'm doing the 45 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,640 job of Chief Operational Officer, Chief Executive Officer 46 00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:38,200 for different companies and we do, we organize strategy, we 47 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,720 create strategy, we define strategy and then we make 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,200 strategy operational. So it means that we set 49 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,800 structure, we set teams, we set goals, we set O PRS and then 50 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:55,840 routines around those goals and said this PDCA so damning cycle 51 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,960 around those goals and derive lessons learned and then how we 52 00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:02,880 help companies grow. That's what I'm doing right now 53 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,320 for the last already I guess eight years. 54 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,400 And before I was a BA, that's how we met. 55 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:14,560 Actually, I was a lead BA, I was BA, I was a strategy analyst. 56 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:18,520 I did a tent management in some companies. 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,920 But actually my first job when I started work with IT companies 58 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:27,040 was a business analyst. It was almost 20 years ago, but 59 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,480 yeah, doesn't matter. Yeah, that's where I'm coming 60 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,480 from. And right now I'm also leading a 61 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,360 few companies together with my business partners. 62 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,800 So that's, yeah, well, that's where I am. 63 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,880 My goodness. And if I remember you telling me 64 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,280 that you're CEO of like multiple companies at the moment. 65 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,200 So what's amazing is that Elena started when she was like 7 or 8 66 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,040 years old. So she talks about doing this 67 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:56,840 for 20 years. She is incredible. 68 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,440 Let's talk about that first time that you and I met, by the way, 69 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,040 because it was virtual. Yeah, it was virtual. 70 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,480 Yeah, I got it exactly. It was, I guess, virtual in Las 71 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:10,280 Vegas conference. I think I met you after that 72 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,960 conference and because I had heard some really great things 73 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:20,240 about your talk at ABC that year, I invited you and your 74 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,880 partner Hanya to come and do the talk that you did, which was 75 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:29,560 refreshing because you were talking about a case study and 76 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:34,200 strategy and OK Rs, but you also were talking about the things 77 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,960 that you did wrong. And I thought it was refreshing 78 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,680 and a little funny and also courageous and honest. 79 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,040 And you know, as you and I have been getting ready today, we 80 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:50,280 have talked about strategy as not being a straight line. 81 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:56,520 There's a lot of ups and downs. So talk about let's talk about 82 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:01,680 that for a little bit and let's talk about why we get, why do 83 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,600 companies get strategy wrong? Where do they start going wrong? 84 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:08,040 Oh my God. That's yeah. 85 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,200 Like coming back to what you said. 86 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,040 Yeah, exactly. That was a long time ago, 87 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,920 really, when we met. And yeah, I remember that 88 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,160 together with Hanya, what we did is to share a story about 1 89 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,640 transformation in Lufthansa in that time. 90 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,120 Yeah, it was crazy time. And we tried a lot. 91 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,440 We tried it a lot. And yeah, that's exactly was our 92 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:34,320 one of the attention, how to execute strategy using Nokia Rs 93 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,680 in that time. Yeah, it was, Oh my God, it was 94 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,480 a journey. But I'm thankful for that as I 95 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:45,040 believe that was one of the toughest journey in my life in 96 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,720 this area. And I learned from that a lot. 97 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,520 And coming to your main question, so actually why 98 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,400 strategies go so wrong, right? Like where it's coming from, 99 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,840 where it started. I believe that it started from a 100 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:02,160 few points. I mean the it's good start. 101 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,760 It's good start, of course from very from a lot of levels. 102 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,600 But I believe that when we are talking about strategy, we first 103 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,280 need to understand because like I mean, maybe let's start from 104 00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:16,320 the very beginning what strategy is right? 105 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,040 Because there is it's kind of buzzword strategy. 106 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,960 Everyone using strategy as a important synonym. 107 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,160 Some sometimes when it's something is important, they say 108 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,960 strategy. But actually to me, strategy is 109 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,600 kind of simple and easy thing, at least for myself, because 110 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,080 when you are leading companies, you need to really exactly 111 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,240 understand what strategy is. But strategy comes from the 112 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:42,320 vision and vision I means like that. 113 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,640 It's like in a chess. So when you want to win, you 114 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,120 want to win on some markets with some in some area, in some 115 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,000 customer segment, in some niche, you define what do you want to 116 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,640 achieve, right? Like the ultimate win, ultimate 117 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,200 end game, you need to achieve. This is the first point. 118 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,280 And for me, this is also first point of failing. 119 00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:10,440 So if you do not want where you want to go, then it's kind of 120 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,400 doesn't matter how you go there, right? 121 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,360 So the first is that you really need to understand what is the 122 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,640 end game of the company? So do you want to sell it? 123 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,320 Do you want to grow it to the international? 124 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,560 I don't know, as a big international company, do you 125 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,520 want to have small family business? 126 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,520 Do you have like boutique agency? 127 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,080 What do you want by having this company? 128 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,960 This is the first point. And by the way, coming also with 129 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,200 this connection to the B as I think it's also important to 130 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,240 understand that I'm coming from BA world, right? 131 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,640 So for me this is the ultimate question for everything like why 132 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,720 do you want two things? Why do you want to company? 133 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,080 This is the first thing. And then when we are talking 134 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,120 about the strategy itself, for me strategy it's kind of idea 135 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:00,840 how do you want to get there to this end game of your company. 136 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:06,560 And this idea is kind of idea which you get from the knowledge 137 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,200 about on which market do you exist in, on which customer 138 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,520 segment do you sell in your product? 139 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,200 Like what do you sell in what internal capabilities do you 140 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,720 have by doing by providing the service or the product. 141 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,280 So I'm usually using this chess example because if you have the 142 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,600 chess and you have you and your competitor, right, you need to 143 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,280 know what is the idea how to win quickly. 144 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,240 So you have this all strategies how to win and then you go why 145 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,600 you go 1st and then your competitor go next and then you 146 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,159 go next and then you go next. But all the time when competitor 147 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,920 make move, you need to reschedule reshuffle like your 148 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,560 strategy. So your ideas and coming back to 149 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:52,760 the strategy, it's exactly the same with the company for me 150 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,920 come like leading the company. It's kind of the game because 151 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,160 you need to understand how to win. 152 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,160 And then you have you need to have this idea. 153 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,640 And when you're asking me why strategy are failing feeling 154 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,840 sometimes this idea how to win is not clear because you're 155 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,520 really not defining your first move. 156 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,520 So you do not have this clear idea what to do next. 157 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,760 What is the, I don't know, the main challenges you need to 158 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:25,960 actually achieve, you need to solve to go faster, to go 159 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:30,200 bigger, maybe to find this, you know, leverage of really 160 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,680 winning. So for me, the 1st and main 161 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,000 reason why strategy fails because they are not clear. 162 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,720 They are kind of quite often strategies. 163 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:49,560 I see they are regions, they are 200 pages of something of 164 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,760 analysis actually of of strategy analysis. 165 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,640 And to me the results of strategy analysis is not 166 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,600 strategy. And to me it's really important 167 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:04,240 to understand that the strategy analysis is not strategy itself. 168 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,560 Strategy is coming from the those 200 pages. 169 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,600 But there should be really clear focus and clear idea how to win. 170 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:19,400 And 2nd to me the strategy failing because we are not 171 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,800 iterate, we are saying, oh, I want to, I don't know, achieve 172 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:28,000 500 millions of dollars whatever in the next year. 173 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:33,000 This is not the strategy, it's a vision, it's a wishful thinking, 174 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,560 right? It's not an idea. 175 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:37,240 You need to iterate. You need to understand how you 176 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,680 really want to get there and you find the repetitive way of 177 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,240 winning. And if you are not iterating, if 178 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,880 you're not really executing the strategy in a way that you are 179 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:54,240 doing this cycle right, plan do check ACT, plan do check ACT. 180 00:10:54,640 --> 00:11:01,240 You are not learning and you could fail because you can 181 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,160 oversee the timing sometimes because you can even have the 182 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,920 good idea, but you could oversee that something good happening in 183 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,960 the market with your product. So you do not react fast. 184 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,040 And you know, it's kind of philosophical question usually 185 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,400 with strategist that what is the reason right execution of the 186 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,120 strategy itself. To me boss, the strategy should 187 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,640 be clear and the execution should be iterative. 188 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:33,880 That's I mean short answer. Well, boy, you, you got, you had 189 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,160 some Nuggets in there, by the way, But let's let me repeat. 190 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,160 This point to you OK. The results of strategy analysis 191 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,440 is not strategy. Exactly. 192 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:46,840 Powerful. There's no point because I think 193 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,680 strategy analysis in what I heard you say helps us to 194 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:53,800 understand the where we are, who we are. 195 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,400 What we are doing exactly? But that's it. 196 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,320 That is an input to how you. Decide. 197 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:03,560 How you decide? I think that's. 198 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,400 Exactly, yes. What to choose? 199 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,040 Because there is what, what the problem on the market or for the 200 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,400 company. You can, you have so many 201 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,320 options right now, you can do so many things, so many 202 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:20,000 initiatives, but the strategy, it's a good choice, a good idea 203 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,160 of the best idea of the best leverage, which will help you to 204 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,040 win faster. That's the idea, right? 205 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,840 So you need to find this. And of course you can do this 206 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,160 both way. You can analyse data very long 207 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,120 time, check all possibilities, check all risks. 208 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:44,240 This is one way to do that. And second way is to iterate 209 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,240 fast. Iterate fast you even bad ideas 210 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,680 because with the strategy it's quite often you do not have 211 00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:55,040 enough data and you need to choose. 212 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,360 So you need to iterate fast. Of course you base sometimes 213 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,400 you, I mean you base your strategy on data, but it depends 214 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,920 on which level of on which level of growth is your product, 215 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,960 right. If you are before product market 216 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,840 feed, then what are we talking about, right? 217 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,240 You do not have enough data to do. 218 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,640 If it's, I don't know, the new market. 219 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,920 If it's a blue ocean, you do not have enough data because you do 220 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,160 not have even something to compare. 221 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,400 You don't have benchmarks. You do not have sometimes 222 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,200 competitors. But and if you in the red ocean 223 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,840 where you have a lot of competitors, that is also 224 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,200 important to iterate fast to really find the way how to win 225 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,200 in this red market. I know that I'm mixing a lot of 226 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:43,800 stuff here, but yes, to me this is is the most often failing. 227 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,440 Yeah, failing reasons of the strategy that we do not clarify, 228 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,080 we do not choose and we do not iterate. 229 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,080 Yeah, you talked about iterating in terms of having experiments 230 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,800 because you said you don't always have enough data. 231 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,960 From what I'm understanding, if you are setting up experiments 232 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,520 to test the experiments in some way, one of the goals could be 233 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:13,280 to give you enough data to know if you need to make another 234 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,040 experiment or do you have enough to make a decision right? 235 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:18,440 Exactly. Yeah, exactly. 236 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:23,120 Because thanks to experiments and in this case, it's my OK Rs 237 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,520 favorite OK Rs. Because based on you know, I 238 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,160 derive OK Rs based on hypothesis. 239 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,760 And actually the doing OK Rs are experimenting. 240 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,440 I can get more data or I can get clear decision. 241 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,560 Do not go there. And the idea actually of the 242 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,840 whole idea of doing business is to get this idea as fast as 243 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,360 possible, right? Because it's in your interest. 244 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,480 You do not want to invest more money in the idea which will not 245 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,360 bring you money, right? The point right of doing 246 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,800 business like in general. Exactly. 247 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,400 So you've brought up the term OK R. 248 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,120 As I said today as we were getting ready, I know OK Rs are 249 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,920 important to you because they're twice in your headline. 250 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,960 Let's tell. So define OK R. 251 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,360 So what does OK R stand for for those that may not be familiar 252 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,240 with that acronym? OK, R OK R, it's actually easy. 253 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,840 It's a objective measured by key results. 254 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:24,240 So they are actually measurable goals which could help or help 255 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,720 you to iterate your strategy. That's all. 256 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,200 That's nothing else. Of course, we derive there are a 257 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,640 lot of misunderstanding and misconception about our PRS 258 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,400 because when the corporates start using some methods, it's 259 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,840 become huge and it's become elephants and it become not 260 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,920 useful anymore. But in the this idea of Okrs 261 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,080 it's a way how to fast iterate strategy. 262 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:56,920 Nothing else there that's. And those Okrs don't necessarily 263 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:04,040 need to be data-driven metrics. They can be something else, 264 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,760 right? Yeah, there could be, of course. 265 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,000 I mean, I do not want now that you know, someone cut from our 266 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,200 podcast this, you know, part of this and then say Lana says 267 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,240 there is not shouldn't be measurable. 268 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,120 No, it's not at all. I'm just saying that the 269 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,440 possibility to have qualitative, not quantitative or key results 270 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,400 actually, but qualitative key results. 271 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,720 So it means, it means that you base those measures on for 272 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:36,520 example questionnaire or based on survey or based on confidence 273 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,800 level etcetera, right. So yes, but it's still 274 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,160 measurable. It's they're very objective 275 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:46,320 because the occurs the main part there is that it's really 276 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,520 objective. So it's no nothing to deliberate 277 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,240 if we are, if we achieved goal of it, we don't. 278 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,920 It's just a way how we define those key results. 279 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,960 But yes, they should be measurable, but the metric 280 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,200 inside could be qualitative, right? 281 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,440 So it shouldn't be. So the example there would be an 282 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:12,440 OK R probably isn't going to be revenue, it might be customer 283 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,400 satisfaction score. Yeah. 284 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,319 For example, if you are talking revenue, right, it's more 285 00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:20,079 strategic metric because this is the log metric. 286 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:25,040 I know I'm using a lot of now buzzwords like login metric and 287 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,160 leading metric. But yes, the Ocars, they're like 288 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,400 useful Ocars. If they, we do want really to 289 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,840 iterate strategy, they should be leading metrics to have leading 290 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,920 metrics inside. And revenue is a kind of log 291 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,640 metrics because the revenue depends on so many things 292 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,520 around, right? So it's really the end, it's an 293 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,720 effect, it's an impact, right? When you see revenue, you 294 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,440 couldn't know actually where it comes from. 295 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,160 I mean, you know of course who paid you, but you, you do not 296 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,960 know what exact activity brought you to this, right? 297 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,760 You could do nothing and you could have a bigger revenue in 298 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:03,800 this month. Why? 299 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,320 Because I don't know you just there's something happened in 300 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,040 the market and some customer came to you. 301 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,840 You did nothing actually, but they came or you can do, I don't 302 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,720 know everything the best you can and then when you will fail just 303 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,880 because the market failing, right. 304 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,960 So it's not really depending on you. 305 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,760 And we are talking about OK Rs, those are metrics who are really 306 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,560 depending on teams who are working on them. 307 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:35,440 So you really can understand like how you get there and you 308 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,120 could derive this lessons learned, which is important to 309 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:43,120 really experiment and iterate. Because if you can derive 310 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:48,000 lessons out of working on goals, then you can learn, and then you 311 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,960 can iterate and then you can decide if this idea of the 312 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,200 strategies is OK, right? Yeah, I know. 313 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,760 Yeah. Well, no, you are making perfect 314 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:58,440 sense. And here's, you know, I don't 315 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,560 know, we might have some folks in our audience thinking that 316 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,840 strategy is all about action. But I'm based on what you're 317 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,120 saying. What I'm hearing is strategy is 318 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:12,480 actually about learning and then acting. 319 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,520 That's really what we're talking about here. 320 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,120 Yes, exactly. Yes, yes. 321 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:21,240 It's about learning and it's about getting more knowledge, 322 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:26,840 faster knowledge how to choose your actions, your initiatives 323 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,840 to really win. That's you know, the game of 324 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,280 entrepreneurship is winning. You are winning on your area all 325 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,040 the time, right on your in your game. 326 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,760 And you know what, I feel like sometimes we don't want to use 327 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,120 that word winning because somehow it sounds ugly. 328 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:49,400 But isn't that what businesses are really trying to do? 329 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,000 They're trying to win business. Yeah, exactly in their market, 330 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,720 so. But it's very important to 331 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,040 really define what's winning means for me as an 332 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,160 entrepreneurship. And I think here is coming to 333 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,600 Ivan BA. I believe that thanks to BA 334 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,160 skills. I mean, at least you know, when 335 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,160 I'm working with management boards, this skill about how to 336 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:17,480 really derive this exact reason, exact why we are doing things 337 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:22,240 like what is your winning idea? Because for me, winning could 338 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,560 be, I don't know, to be leading in my region. 339 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,560 I have some small customers who just, you know, deriving their 340 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,880 product in their small regions and they do not want go wider 341 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,920 because this is their win. And for someone is important to 342 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:43,120 win internationally or in Europe or in America, in Asia, wherever 343 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:47,680 we have this niche. It's about winning in your niche 344 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,400 and in your heart actually. Yeah, I know that I'm coming 345 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,800 somewhere to the human, but I'm really here saying that this 346 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,080 winning is very individual thing. 347 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,800 So you brought up your business analysis skills are really the 348 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,080 thing that got you involved in strategy. 349 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,360 And let's talk about human skills for a minute because I 350 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:17,400 feel like you know what you're talking about. 351 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,440 So when you're hired and you're talking with leaders about what 352 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,760 does winning mean to you are not looking for the tactic you're 353 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,960 you're asking them to dive deep into their hearts. 354 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,800 You'd really think about what does waiting mean? 355 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,680 What's the human skill that you've got to turn to in order 356 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,440 to have that kind of conversation? 357 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,720 I believe that this came really from my BA skills and from my BA 358 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:47,840 experience that from the first of all, I need to know how to 359 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:53,680 ask open questions, like open questions which really get me to 360 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:58,640 the root to the reason. You know, we SB as we all know 361 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,640 root cause analysis, 5 whys, etcetera. 362 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,480 And we all know like right now how to ask those coaching 363 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,200 questions, right, which are open. 364 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,960 So you need to understand what is the real reasons And the same 365 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,520 as you do is with business analysis. 366 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,280 When someone come to you and they say, oh, we want this 367 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,840 solution and this solution with this red button, whatever, 368 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,000 right? And all professional business 369 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,640 analysts, they know that you need to understand the exact 370 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,760 reason. What the problem do they have? 371 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,160 What like what they're thinking about? 372 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,440 What the process do they have? What is the context around 373 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,200 right? The whole BA about them getting 374 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,840 all the context, it's I mean it's natural for us, right? 375 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,000 And the same is with the business because when I'm coming 376 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,480 to board to sea level guys and girls and I'm asking them, OK, 377 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,200 like why do you do this business? 378 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,800 What do you want to achieve? What is the end game? 379 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:04,600 The first answer is usually we want to earn money, we want to 380 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,400 have this revenue. And when you go deeper and when 381 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,280 you start to really dig deeper, so to understand this reason, so 382 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:17,200 do this root cause analysis. Actually you start to find this 383 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,680 the exact why so why we are doing a business, what means for 384 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:28,080 us to be successful. So yes, this is the one of my BA 385 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:33,120 skills I'm using quite often. So really asking open questions 386 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:37,400 and going deeper to the reason. So let's call it root cause 387 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,480 analysis, whatever you call it comparing to the, you know, this 388 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,720 BA techniques, but this is the one thing and yeah, it's a 389 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,640 coming to this root, to this most important part. 390 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,320 And the second, OK, let's define then goal, right? 391 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,400 Let's define this measurable thing. 392 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,200 How do we want to achieve that? How we will recognize that we 393 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,920 will be there. Here's we have this strategy 394 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:05,800 metrics and actually all this context analysis, right, because 395 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,720 you need to understand in which environment you are working for 396 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,920 whom you are working. So actually the whole set of BA 397 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:19,800 skills I'm now using to lead companies that's like 100% 398 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,200 stakeholder management, etcetera. 399 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,640 Doing a look, we all have dogs, it's all good. 400 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,920 I. Know that's OK. 401 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,640 Probably somebody rang your doorbell. 402 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,440 I know how that is. Yeah, exactly. 403 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:40,160 That's just family coming. So what do you think then? 404 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,400 I mean, if you're using all of your skills, all of your 405 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,160 techniques from your work as a business analyst, what do you 406 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,920 think is the top human skill? Like if you would say this is 407 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,840 the number one thing that you've got to do or use, what would it 408 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,680 be? Oh my God, that's a deep 409 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,680 question. And I believe, I mean, this only 410 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:07,720 one skill actually come into my mind if I would choose only one 411 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,360 thing. And I think it's also kind of 412 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:15,360 connected with the whole thing, which is how we live right now. 413 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:20,200 So how our life and the evolution is going on. 414 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,720 And I will, before we'll name it, I will tell you the like 415 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,320 from far. So probably you will get to, you 416 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,840 will know that maybe someone of our listeners can even guess 417 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,320 what it means. I will start with the change, 418 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,800 right, because we all are in the constant change. 419 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,880 Companies are in the change, we are in the change. 420 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:46,120 We need all the time to adjust our skills, our learnings, 421 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:50,200 learning ability, our understanding of what's going 422 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,920 on. And also companies need to adapt 423 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,080 to all the time to the change, right? 424 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,960 So the change management is everywhere. 425 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,320 And we all you probably as ABA guys, you all know that like 426 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,120 really understanding the change management scheme is very 427 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,000 important. And coming to the human skill 428 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:17,160 back to that, I believe that's one of the most important skill, 429 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:24,320 human skill, which help us to really, I don't know, be be be 430 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,280 the yeah strife and be the really good and feel good. 431 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,920 I would say it's, I don't know if there is a it's a correct 432 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,560 word in the English. Yeah, exactly. 433 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,040 It's a resilience. It's a resilience. 434 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,680 Yeah. So this is the one to me 435 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:41,640 exactly. Yeah. 436 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,160 That I see CODIS. Yes. 437 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,840 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's exactly resilience. 438 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:52,680 And to me, this is the skill you cannot learn from not doing. 439 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:59,400 You only learn that from experiencing failing and 440 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:04,720 experiencing and iterating and experimenting. 441 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:11,800 And as more you fail, the more you're resilient to the new 442 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,000 change and unfortunate. I mean, unfortunately, there is 443 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:21,040 no way you will be resilient if you do not do anything. 444 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,760 So you need to do, you need to try, You need to be open to the 445 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:31,040 new skills, to the new ideas, to the new needs of the company, of 446 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,360 the people around you. And I guess now it's even, I 447 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:39,000 mean, I believe that it was always important. 448 00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:43,240 But now even if, if it's more important because we have AI, 449 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:48,160 right? We have, we need to be adaptable 450 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,240 and we need inside of us be resilient. 451 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,600 So that's for me the most important actually skill of 452 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,480 everything, of the life I would say even. 453 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,920 Yeah. Well, I would agree because I 454 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,480 think there is just a lot that is going on in the world, not 455 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,400 just in our families or in our workplaces. 456 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,400 I am interested, though, that you talk about gaining that 457 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,880 through failure because I feel like a lot of people are 458 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,120 conditioned to believe, well, if I fail, I don't want to tell 459 00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:23,160 anybody. If I fail, I just want to 460 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,560 pretend that it didn't happen and I want it on. 461 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,840 And, you know, as we started today's episode, I said one of 462 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,240 the things I found refreshing was the case study where you 463 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,800 talked about all the things you did wrong and you did it with a 464 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,440 certain amount of humor. So that's actually that that is. 465 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,520 Important. An important thing that we're 466 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,520 doing when we're failing, we're learning. 467 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,040 Yeah, exactly. And I I really believe that if 468 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,200 you fail quite fast and it's you're not just talking because 469 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,440 failing is not, it's not a pleasure feeling. 470 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,320 You need to process that. I mean, and faster you learn how 471 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,360 to process that, the faster you learn, right, Because you are 472 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,320 not focusing on your emotions, bad emotions, how bad you are. 473 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,080 But to me, the really understanding that you are bad 474 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:20,040 in something, it's a first point that you will improve because 475 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,120 you cannot learn if you will not tell yourself that. 476 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,080 I'm bad in I don't know in managing people. 477 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,720 I'm bad in doing that I don't know in the deriving real 478 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,800 reasons. I am bad in I don't know 479 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,200 managing giving feedback for people. 480 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,800 I'm bad in this. So you understand it. 481 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,720 You get out of your ego. Actually, that's it's that the 482 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,400 first point. This is coming from my partner. 483 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,480 I mean, I believe that I learned it from him that he's always 484 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,640 saying that it's really that you first need to really derive 485 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,960 this, that you need to understand that you're betting 486 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,960 something and you learn, you fail, you learn, you fail and 487 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,360 you do that. And I believe that and I believe 488 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,440 that in B as in managing the company, this is the first thing 489 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,240 you need to do like with everything. 490 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,480 No, one of our I do not believe if someone tell me that it's 491 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,480 everything is great, everything is working. 492 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,880 I really believe that it's not true because I do not believe 493 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,040 that any of us like starting doing something and then all 494 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,360 knew how to do that. They we all knew how what tools 495 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,200 to use, what I don't know what question to ask. 496 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,680 No, that's not true. And the more you really, I don't 497 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,440 know, like you open to that you can learn from people because if 498 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,680 people really see that you are willing to learn, you're willing 499 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,720 to share, they also will share the energy works where energy 500 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,680 coming back that's. There is a certain yeah, there 501 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,040 is a certain energy to being vulnerable and we may not think 502 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,200 about that in the workplace, but when you go who I really, I 503 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,840 didn't get this one right, guys. So let's right. 504 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,800 And the first thing that you have to do is you. 505 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,240 So we want you to feel your emotions because that's very 506 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,960 natural. And then at a point we need for 507 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,760 you to work beyond that. We need to for you to get to the 508 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,640 other side of that because that's really where that 509 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,920 learning is. We sometimes get stuck in that, 510 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,960 like I'm terrible because I failed. 511 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,400 Yeah, but you are terrible. OK, that's that's So what? 512 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,880 Like So what? Just learn and do that. 513 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,080 Do that better. I mean like. 514 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,360 Everybody has a bad day. Yeah, exactly. 515 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,040 That's, I mean, bad day. But Marnes, I don't know. 516 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:38,640 You can have bad skills. Why not? 517 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,960 What actually is the problem? Like, who cares? 518 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,920 Only you should care. Like to be honest, Yeah. 519 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,440 And you know when again, when we were getting ready for today, we 520 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,480 were talking about when people bring you into a company to help 521 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,680 them, it is not because you have all the answers. 522 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,320 It is not because you are perfect. 523 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,000 It is because you have, I've seen a lot of things and you 524 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,880 know a lot of things, but that does not mean that all of your 525 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,560 experiments are perfect, but that you can help them to 526 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,520 manage, you know, the trends that you see and the areas where 527 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,720 you know, people fail. But it is likely that you guys 528 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,520 will experience some of those. Yeah, exactly. 529 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,280 They just use my experience. They just use my fails. 530 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,880 I mean, they are paying for my failing before because I'm 531 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,680 actually sharing with them how painful I felt, how painful we 532 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,440 had somewhere else. Yes, that's actually about that. 533 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,640 They get faster results just because I failed them before and 534 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,080 I can share that. And this is about an experience, 535 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,480 that's all. There's no like some, you know, 536 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,680 magic there like yes, that's and and I will never tell you that 537 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,360 all my life will was always, you know, like easy and I know all 538 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,560 the answers. No, I'm doing everyday new 539 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,880 things and I'm learning every day like this podcast in 540 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,040 America. It's also a new thing for me. 541 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,880 OK, I'm doing that. You know why not? 542 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,280 So we so far, our listeners, we talked about that and I said I'm 543 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,320 not going to ask many hard questions. 544 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,200 And you know, any question I asked, you're going to know the 545 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:13,440 answer. It was all good. 546 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,400 Well, listen, I we have got, we have, by the way, we have a very 547 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,840 engaged audience. I know that you can see their 548 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,520 comments today. I I would like for us to take a 549 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:23,720 couple of questions. What do you? 550 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,440 Yeah. Sure. 551 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,840 OK, it's a pleasure. All right. 552 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,880 And you know what? Today they all ask really long 553 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:35,560 questions, so that might mean that part of my face is 554 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:36,760 obscured. OK, here we go. 555 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,760 I'm going to pop this on to. OK, so hey Robert, this is from 556 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,200 Robert. On the topic of getting strategy 557 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,680 wrong, there's that Peter Drecker quotation. 558 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,520 Culture eats strategy. So when a company gets its 559 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,720 strategy wrong, the 1st place to look is the culture. 560 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:52,640 Many companies get culture wrong. 561 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,400 What do you see? So I think that's a great point, 562 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,760 right? Because you're not just helping 563 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,720 them to win, but do you talk about how their culture might 564 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:00,200 be? Perfect. 565 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,200 Oh my God, of course. Remember, I'm a level, so the 566 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,720 culture where it's created and what is the culture? 567 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,719 And I think the first thing to really answer to that, I'm not 568 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,000 sure that it's a question, but maybe no, some thoughts just to 569 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,920 check. So for me, the culture is the 570 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:23,080 worst behavior we accept. This is the culture and the best 571 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,000 behavior we accept. So whatever we accept, it's our 572 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,719 culture, right? Yeah. 573 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,960 And we create our, it's kind of we have a culture and we also 574 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,440 could create a culture. Of course, the whole culture is 575 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,280 coming from the acceptation, right, acceptation. 576 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,000 And then where it's come from, it's from comes from sea level, 577 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,560 so from middle management, etcetera. 578 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:51,320 And I believe that this quote which you use in the culture, 579 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,080 it's strategy on the breakfast or whatever, it's about that. 580 00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:00,960 First of all, if we have even clear strategy, clear direction 581 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:06,520 and for example, we accept that we do not iterate or we accept 582 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,080 that we do not have planning reviews, retrospective, we do 583 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,440 not derive lessons learned, We do not really measure. 584 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,760 We accept to not measure our goals. 585 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,400 We accept to not to have, I don't know, to be weekly updates 586 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,960 or whatever. Then of course, the strategy 587 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,160 will be eaten, of course. Or if we accept that the 588 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,680 strategy is not clear, we do not, we accept that we do not 589 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:37,000 ask questions. We accept that people blame when 590 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,440 we are failing. If we do not accept 591 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,480 experimenting, then of course the strategy. 592 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,880 So I really believe that this quote is kind of, if it's a kind 593 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:53,680 of thing that it's so obvious, it's so nice sounding that of 594 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,040 course it's true. But I believe that for each 595 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,200 company it could really means very different thing. 596 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,520 And you're right that some so many people can get it 597 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,960 differently because for me, we take it differently. 598 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,320 What culture means. I just define you. 599 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,840 What culture means for me. For me, it's an acceptation, the 600 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,440 worst behaviour. So whatever we accept, it means 601 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,920 how we create our culture. Right. 602 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,840 Yeah, I think sometimes organizations can rely too much 603 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,520 on those employee satisfaction surveys. 604 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,080 Oh, we're a great place to work. Everybody loves working here. 605 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,040 But I think you're right, everybody might like working 606 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,800 there, but if we accept bad behaviors, that's really. 607 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,240 Yeah, it's our culture, right? And if we really, for example, 608 00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:45,160 promote feedback, we promote transparency, we promote that we 609 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,480 could decide, we promote clarification. 610 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,800 So you know what did the worst? For example, what I don't know, 611 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,480 some manager comes to you and say I need this and do not 612 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,400 clarify what he needs or she needs to have. 613 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,600 And then you know, the Co worker that they're doing their best 614 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,280 job, they're doing whatever they think they need, they come, they 615 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,000 bring the result. And then the manager says, no, 616 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,120 it's not what I it's not what I need. 617 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,640 Like, and who blame for that? I think both sides, right? 618 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,600 Because the manager didn't clarify what he needs and the 619 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:27,760 work Co worker didn't ask how BA can help here define goals. 620 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,640 Yeah, Yeah, that's right. All right, Well, let's see. 621 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,840 So we've got a question. So we talked about resilience 622 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,400 and so Lenovo ask how do analysts build resilience in 623 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,680 their careers by doubling down on skills AI can't replicate. 624 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:48,360 So here I guess. So let's we didn't even bring up 625 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,160 AI today. I know that must be an important 626 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:56,040 part of what you're seeing in your strategy work today, but I 627 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:57,520 don't know. So let's figure out how to 628 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,000 answer this question. OK, I need to like to read it to 629 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,040 think about the answer. How do analysts build resilience 630 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,960 in their careers? By doubling down on the skills I 631 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,920 simply can't replicate. I like stakeholders to ask under 632 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:18,680 the judgment and navigation. Organizational politic I see 633 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,920 here there are a few topics like mixed and one question. 634 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,960 So I maybe will be thinking out loud what I think by reading 635 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,360 this and maybe we can find like reading this. 636 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,720 I will find my thoughts on that because I'm not really sure 637 00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:35,920 because it's, it's like mixing a lot of topics when I'm reading 638 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,120 like how do analysts build resilience in their career? 639 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:44,240 I believe that you can build resilience by again, by failing 640 00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:48,680 and and getting up fast, right? So I do not believe believe that 641 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:53,600 by just doubling down on the skills it's it will build your 642 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,920 resilience, it build your being more skilled. 643 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:03,320 But this is not the same to me. Resilience is a really ability 644 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:09,640 to get up after failing. It's a fast ability after some 645 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,760 hard situation to ability to grow fast. 646 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,320 It's for me the main skill in the change and now when we are 647 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:24,240 talking about the AI, it's a hard sentence to me. 648 00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:27,040 Yeah, I think without getting because I know that if we start 649 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:33,120 talking AI that'll take take us in a this is over on the. 650 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,640 Start again to read it again, because it's a very interesting 651 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,600 thought, yeah. Well, and I think resilience is 652 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,200 maybe more of a trait than a skill to be built. 653 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:47,960 Now that might be just kind of, you know, you say potato, I say 654 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,880 potato, right? That's line from that song. 655 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,400 Okay. But so I don't know, it's kind 656 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,720 of like if I were to fall down and bump my knee and I get a 657 00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:02,320 scab there and eventually I'll wear that scab. 658 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,680 I'll have that scab for a little while until everything heals and 659 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,200 then. It's a little bit stronger now. 660 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,520 In that. That's what I think resilience 661 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,720 is when I hear you describe. It yeah. 662 00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:17,520 And coming back to the AI and it's a Terra, I think we are 663 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,320 talking about something different. 664 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,680 So we are talking about really you're growing in this scale. 665 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:29,720 So to find a way where you as ABA can find the way how to use 666 00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:33,720 in your like everyday life or even create something which can 667 00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:38,360 help people to freely use this, let's say, solution or whatever. 668 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,880 And I would say that here it's a more that you're really, you're 669 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:49,480 hiding your ego again and you just learn and you face the 670 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,320 truth that you don't know how to do that. 671 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,320 Like you really don't know how to do that. 672 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,240 And it's more about adaptability, not resilience. 673 00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:02,080 Actually, I would say so, but it's adaptability to the new 674 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,120 things. And yeah, and resilience there 675 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,880 is this, you know that there will be the end of this 676 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:14,840 unpleasant feeling and you know how to behave yourself being in 677 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,560 this unpleasant feeling because you will be in this unpleasant 678 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:23,240 feeling for a while. But if you know that it will end 679 00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:27,400 and it will last, it's fine because this will help you to 680 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,520 not focus on this failing, but more focus on how to learn fast, 681 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,160 right? So that's about that. 682 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,600 And there was in this question was also some things about 683 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,800 politics, etcetera. Oh yeah, you can. 684 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,480 They like stakeholder trust, contextual judgment and navigate 685 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:47,760 an organization of politic. This is, I mean, it's about 686 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,240 relations and how you really build this. 687 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,040 It's about culture, how you build your relation with people, 688 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,480 right? So how you react, and I would 689 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,760 say if the stakeholder trust, it's again, it's how you build 690 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:06,880 and also how you react to the external judgement or untrust, 691 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,200 right? It's about yourself. 692 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:13,160 So I think that here in this sentence, it's so many things 693 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:20,800 about how you actually react to the external triggers, to the 694 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:26,040 external things, how you. So it's about to having the very 695 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:34,440 hard internal foundation to learn, to grow and to not be how 696 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,720 to say that well, to know what do you want to achieve. 697 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,720 Yeah, I will say that. So she adds on to that in a 698 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:45,840 separate comment, which is super big, which if we were to post 699 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,120 it, we wouldn't see our faces, but that's OK. 700 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,880 So she had done some Myers Briggs, which is a personality 701 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,480 type indicator, OK. She's analytical and finds it 702 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,800 challenging to engage with others. 703 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,480 So that would typically be introverted, right? 704 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,720 And so the challenge was the confidence with doing things 705 00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:09,960 that were putting her out in front of other people, which is 706 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,360 very much what a business analysis professional working in 707 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,720 strategy, you've got to be comfortable with. 708 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,720 You've got to be comfortable with working with all levels of 709 00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:24,480 people and specifically higher levels of people and going into 710 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,400 a room where you don't know the answers because you don't and 711 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,560 they probably don't either. And you've got to be confident 712 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,320 and you will get it wrong. I can't tell you the times that 713 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:39,120 I went into a room with a bunch of executives and started poking 714 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,480 my finger into things that I didn't know and they didn't 715 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,720 know. And then it kind of went, you 716 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:48,600 know, it went pear shaped, as they say. 717 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,920 But I learned a whole lot of lessons and I hung in there. 718 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:58,760 That's resilience. So it's, yeah, you know, this 719 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,760 work, a business analysis professional working in 720 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,800 strategy. You have to be comfortable with 721 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,360 discomfort. All the time with not knowing 722 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,000 things, not knowing. You're not. 723 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,040 Having an answer that's yeah, exactly. 724 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,400 I mean, the only thing that you have on your side is the 725 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,440 experiences that you have. I love that you say they hire me 726 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,240 because I've failed a lot, right? 727 00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:23,800 That's not quite what's happened. 728 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,880 You're very accomplished, right? But you you've done the hard 729 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,960 work of learning from those lessons and being able to share 730 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,920 that in a way that's helpful to them. 731 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,720 So it is a different kind of work. 732 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,760 There's no requirements. You're not what do you want to 733 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:45,400 have done? You are really getting into a 734 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,400 lot of human stuff. It could be uncomfortable so. 735 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:54,840 Yeah, I mean, yeah. And the resilience is Exodus, I 736 00:44:54,840 --> 00:45:01,200 think, becoming liking it so you start liking it that you are you 737 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,760 all the time uncomfortable. Yeah, so I will. 738 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,800 What I say to people right when they start to get into this kind 739 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:15,480 of work is when you are known for being able to do this kind 740 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:20,200 of work, two things happen. 1 is you're going to, you're, they're 741 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:21,640 going to ask you to do more of it. 742 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,680 And two, the problems are going to get a lot harder. 743 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:26,920 And so you've got to be ready for that. 744 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,520 So that resilience, as Cody says, the grit, the 745 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,560 perseverance, those are just other ways of kind of combining 746 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,280 those. Those are essential. 747 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,480 So I think you're right. I think that is the most 748 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,040 essential skill that you need if you want to be ABA professional. 749 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,840 Doing this kind of work is resilience 100%. 750 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,520 We are almost at the end of our time. 751 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,560 I know you've been taking a peek into comments. 752 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,360 Is there any other question that you would like to answer before 753 00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:03,160 we wrap up today? I know, like I said, this topic 754 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,680 has generated a lot of really detailed comments which I just 755 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,760 love cuz people are really, they're really like. 756 00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:13,920 My God, those are great questions. 757 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,840 I mean, I'm reading that and I'm enjoying reading it even. 758 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,800 And you know, we you also will be able to get back to these 759 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,520 comments. So even if you're not able to 760 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,200 answer them today because we are coming from it. 761 00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:30,800 OK, You can come back to this chat. 762 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,400 Some of them are in YouTube and some of them are on LinkedIn. 763 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:35,840 Yeah, all. Right. 764 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,080 I can answer them all. I mean, if that's like, you 765 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:45,040 know, the whole bunch of texts more about the strategy and 766 00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,320 thinking, Oh my God. Yeah, exactly. 767 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,480 Before we go to day, because I know you're setting up your 768 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,320 speaking schedule for the rest of the year, we're I think I'm 769 00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,720 going to see you in Warsaw. I think you're speaking yes. 770 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,760 Where else can people find you? I'm Oh my God, I mean, I don't 771 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,840 know from the whole all over the world. 772 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,640 I'm think it's the easiest way to actually approach me is to 773 00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,920 write down to me on the LinkedIn. 774 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,000 I'm constant answering and really I'm there. 775 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,760 I'm trying to be present there, but because of I'm leading a few 776 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,840 companies, it's just a time scheduling and it's always, you 777 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,560 know that yeah, exactly. You need to work and then you 778 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,160 can share. So I'm sharing sometimes during 779 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,360 the pot discuss really what I'm doing. 780 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,240 So LinkedIn, just guys, please just add me to LinkedIn, write 781 00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:37,760 to me. And I'm really I would love to 782 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,200 talk. This is the first place talking 783 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,600 about the events. Like you said, it's I will be in 784 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,840 the worst in war. So for sure in this IBA when I'm 785 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:52,560 quite usually in the conference, which are for founders. 786 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:56,560 So in Poland mostly, at least in this year. 787 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,520 Hopefully it will change the next years. 788 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,480 I mean, again, it's about focus. Like I said, I have a clear 789 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,680 strategy and I'm focusing. That's why. 790 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,040 You win in 2026. That's your strategy? 791 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,160 Yes, yes, I will win. That's the idea. 792 00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,000 That's the idea. And so just guys write to me on 793 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,880 the LinkedIn and it will be easier. 794 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,000 Yeah. And there are usually also 795 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,040 advertised where I am in this year. 796 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,320 And I'll make sure in the YouTube description that I put 797 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,120 your LinkedIn info. And if you're joining us live 798 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,600 through LinkedIn, LinkedIn, actually, I think you can get to 799 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,000 her LinkedIn through the chat. Yeah, yeah. 800 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,080 Just you can write down my name and you will see there. 801 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:43,960 All right, well, this has been, boy, did I learn a lot today and 802 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,400 I hope our listeners did too. I mean, I'm actually I'm pretty 803 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,840 sure they did because boy, are they talking in in comments 804 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,800 today. All right. 805 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,720 Thank you so much. Thank you and thank you for 806 00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:00,080 inviting me and thank you for those questions. 807 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,760 I, I, I guess we like came deeper than we expected. 808 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,280 So I'm I really like that. As I said, we never know where 809 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,720 this conversation was gonna go. So super cool, thank you. 810 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,160 See you then. Love you, you are the best. 811 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:15,720 See ya. Thank you. 812 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,120 See ya. All right. 813 00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:23,360 And Josh, I boy, that's some new ways of thinking about strategy 814 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,720 and also our work as business analysis professionals in 815 00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:29,960 strategy. So if that is something that 816 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,800 interests you or you've been thinking about, I hope that you 817 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,880 will take away some of Elena's thoughts today and apply that to 818 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,600 the work that you're doing. We'll see you again in two 819 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,160 weeks, and we're going to be talking about making data 820 00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,480 impossible to ignore. And I've got a guest on that 821 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,800 talks a lot about storytelling, and maybe you don't think of 822 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,920 that as a way to talk about data, but he does. 823 00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,440 So I hope you will join me then in two weeks. 824 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,640 We'll see you then. If you're hearing this, you made 825 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,920 it to the end of the episode. Thanks for listening. 826 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,400 Do you have any questions, comments, or thoughts about 827 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,240 today's topic? We'd love to hear them. 828 00:50:07,240 --> 00:50:09,680 Drop us a review or leave a note in the comments. 829 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,880 Then like, subscribe or share this podcast if you like what 830 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,760 you heard. And hey, you can help us shape 831 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,120 future episodes. What do you want to know more 832 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,280 about? Send us an e-mail at Live at 833 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,120 iiba.org with your ideas. See you again on our next 834 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:23,680 episode.