1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:03,320 Welcome to Business Analysis Live. 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,560 I'm your host, Susan Moore, community engagement manager 3 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:09,480 with the International Institute of Business Analysis. 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,680 I explore topics with industry guests about the work of 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,600 business analysis professionals and how their work helps 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,840 organizations achieve better outcomes. 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,760 And Yep, we take your questions too. 8 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:21,760 Thanks for listening. Let's get started. 9 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:27,720 Hey, do you like giving feedback? 10 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,040 Do you more importantly, do you like getting feedback? 11 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,960 Well, sometimes not so much, right? 12 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:40,400 Sometimes it can feel really uncomfortable or just downright 13 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,560 demoralizing when you are getting and receiving feedback. 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,840 But you know, in the work that we do as business analysis 15 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,600 professionals, it's actually kind of important that we build 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,800 this skill set of both giving and receiving feedback. 17 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:02,000 Earlier this year, I had an opportunity to hear a talk from 18 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,840 somebody who I think makes it pretty fun experience to get and 19 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,160 receive feedback. And here he is now. 20 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,680 Pavel Sidorowicz. All right. 21 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,320 Hey, there you are. Yes. 22 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:20,080 Finally, finally. Well, hey, listen, I, I really 23 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,720 enjoyed that talk that you did on giving and receiving feedback 24 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,920 and that's going to be what we talked about today. 25 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,840 But before we do that, I'm actually going to ask you tell 26 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:35,680 us a little bit about yourself and why giving and receiving 27 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,640 feedback is a thing you like talking about. 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,600 All right. So my main heart that I wear is 29 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,960 business analyst and I've been doing that for the last 15 years 30 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:52,960 in different branches, different companies in banking, in car 31 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,800 audio, in manufacturing, law enforcement, in life sciences, 32 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,520 pharma, name it. A lot of different occasions to 33 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:06,440 be APA, but I also been APMI, have a degree in project 34 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,880 management. I've been a tester, product 35 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:13,120 owner, a lot of roles that I took in ITA along the years. 36 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,120 I'm also certified business manager. 37 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,200 I've been a chapter leads, BA leads and ABA manager. 38 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,560 So basically that's my professional career. 39 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,880 And apart from that, I have a wife and two children and a very 40 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,640 crazy German Shepherd. So a lot of things to do outside 41 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:35,600 work, let's say. And why are you like talking 42 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,400 about feedback? It's a complicated question 43 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,480 because it's not easy to do. It's not that straightforward. 44 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,120 It's even more difficult to give, to receive feedback than 45 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,600 to give it actually, because it's a complex matter and it 46 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,720 requires a lot of self-awareness. 47 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,320 A lot of people have troubles giving and receiving feedback, 48 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,440 and I just thinking to myself every time I talk about anything 49 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:04,160 related to business analysis or work as such is that I always 50 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,160 wanted to have a senior guy in the team that would help me to 51 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,040 do those things. And I'm trying to be a senior 52 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,440 member of IT or BA community that I needed when I was junior. 53 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:21,560 That's my goal, actually. So I I've heard this saying, be 54 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:26,840 the leader you needed as a, as a junior employee. 55 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:32,120 So good for you for, for helping others with something that you 56 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,320 know has been crucial to your career. 57 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,440 So 'cause this is hard, what, what do you think? 58 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,680 Why do you think giving and receiving feedback is a critical 59 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,760 skill for the work that we do? Basically because how we talked 60 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,040 with other people and how we share our thoughts and how we 61 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,440 receive them builds relationship. 62 00:03:55,160 --> 00:04:00,040 And in our job being ABA or any related role, product owner, 63 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,640 product manager, building relationships is a pinnacle of 64 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,760 our work. Basically, without that, even if 65 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:12,400 we are technically brilliant, even if our diagrams or methods 66 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,360 are always spot on, if we can't build relationships with, if we 67 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,640 don't get along with people fine, then all of that work 68 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:24,840 might not mean much. Really, you could not have said 69 00:04:24,840 --> 00:04:29,280 it better there because I I maybe people don't think about 70 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,680 giving and receiving feedback as being a big part of building a 71 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,400 relationship. But you know, you and I were 72 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:41,560 talking about feedback that you get from your family, right? 73 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,840 And that's so important for us from the time that we are kids 74 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:48,160 to the time that we're adults. I don't know about you. 75 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,080 My parents still give me feedback. 76 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,960 They do, even if we don't want it right. 77 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,440 Especially if we don't want it, but that may be right. 78 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:03,160 But that important give and take that parents and kids have or 79 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,680 that family members have, it's really important to helping 80 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,000 shape us because I assume that our parents are giving us 81 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,960 feedback. They want us to be good people. 82 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,920 Yeah, I think that's an overarching goal. 83 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,880 And if you set up the mind, if you set the mindset that 84 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,560 everyone that is sharing feedback with you wants only 85 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,440 good for you, then it's easier to grasp it, to talk about it. 86 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:35,280 And our parents usually or most of the times meanwhile, yeah, my 87 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:38,800 father, even when he was joking last time when he visited our 88 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,840 new house and he was like, oh, that's a curious doorstep. 89 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,440 And I was having a box there so the door don't slam across the 90 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,200 wall because I haven't bought any yet. 91 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:54,080 But he wanted to make a joke. But instantly you know I should 92 00:05:54,080 --> 00:06:00,240 buy it. Well, and I know we were talking 93 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,840 about how my mother-in-law always gives my husband feedback 94 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,120 that his hair is too long, right? 95 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,520 And he says, oh mom, leave me alone. 96 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,160 And but I she means it. Well, I mean, she just wants him 97 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,000 to look nice. But sometimes that feedback can 98 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,880 have a real meaning. Yeah. 99 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,160 You know, sometimes you think that the feedback doesn't stick 100 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,160 with you. It doesn't have any sense 101 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,120 because you don't see yourself with others, with eyes of other 102 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,040 people. What we tend to do is to judge 103 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,040 everyone by the effect of what they do and what they say. 104 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,480 But we judge ourselves from our intentions. 105 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,120 So we always justify what we do. Because I wanted to do something 106 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,760 good for someone and the reception might be not good at 107 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:55,000 all because they judge us by the effects of our doings. 108 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,360 So basically we do the same with the feedback we received from 109 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:05,280 our parents and so on. And sometimes when I think about 110 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:08,920 that, you need to think whether you would respond so badly to 111 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,800 feedback if it was at your workplace. 112 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,400 Would you be so offended or sad about the feedback? 113 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,960 Or you would try to respond in professional manner because the 114 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,560 frame that you have around you is different. 115 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,440 With your parents, it's so much easier to say, yeah, that's 116 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,640 stupid, I don't care. But at work you can't say that. 117 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,800 Right, well, I guess you could say that, but you might not work 118 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,680 there for very long. Yeah, back in my days when I was 119 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,960 studying, there was 1 philosopher that said that we 120 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:48,880 can do everything but the consequences we must bear is the 121 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:54,560 case. Well, so thinking about that, 122 00:07:54,960 --> 00:08:00,240 giving feedback, if we think about, you know, what makes that 123 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:05,320 so difficult, maybe let's talk about what we can be thinking 124 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,720 about as we are giving feedback. So you, you mentioned that 125 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,920 there's, we have an intention generally that we want to give 126 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:15,440 feedback because we want to help. 127 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,720 But are there other things that we could be thinking about as we 128 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:24,440 are giving feedback so that it's received as best as possible? 129 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,600 Yeah, also there are other reasons. 130 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:32,159 We want to improve the work that is being done or we want to 131 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:35,080 improve our working conditions. So we want to get along better 132 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,960 with people because there is something that's actually annoys 133 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:43,799 us or it's is confusing or we don't like such behavior and so 134 00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:46,680 on. But I think what is important is 135 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:51,080 to concentrate on and focus on facts. 136 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:55,360 So what actually happened that made us give that feedback? 137 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:01,440 Not to put, you know, like, say it's awful that you did that 138 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,320 because it already turns someone into a defense mode. 139 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,880 So first you do facts. You didn't come to our meeting 140 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:10,960 and that's a fact you can't discuss about it. 141 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,160 You can't say that it didn't happen because it happened. 142 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,520 But if you would say you didn't came to a week meeting, you are 143 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,360 a bad person. That's turns someone into 144 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,680 already being defensive. So first to focus about facts, 145 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:30,120 then you say about your emotions because those that how you felt 146 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,480 also cannot be disputed because it's your emotion. 147 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,440 What you need to be careful about here is not to say that 148 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,320 you were, let's say you had, you were you hated that or 149 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,640 something. It's more of your internal 150 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,920 emotional. I was sad it didn't come to the 151 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,800 meeting. And then you say what were the 152 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,960 consequences? Because of that, we haven't 153 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,720 finalized the requirements. The work will be delayed. 154 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,680 My documents will be delayed. So there is a direct 155 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:00,000 consequence. Sorry. 156 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,720 And the last thing is important is what is the expectation? 157 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,360 So the expectation is that the next time you can't come, please 158 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,880 let me know because it's important for my schedule, it's 159 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,600 important for my duties, it's important for things that I need 160 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:19,760 to get done. So basically emotions, your 161 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,920 emotions, facts, consequences and your expectations. 162 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:30,400 Yeah, I think that's a that is a good way to package that 163 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,360 information. I think sometimes what might get 164 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,960 in our way is how we feel before we give that feedback. 165 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:44,760 So if I am angry or annoyed or disappointed, what I hear you 166 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:51,080 say is you can, you can be those things, but you can't let that, 167 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,840 you can't let that interfere with the information that you 168 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,120 need to give. Do you have any tips for how I 169 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,480 can deal with my own feelings before I give feedback? 170 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,440 Especially special before you get. 171 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,960 So you are now talking about the receiving hands. 172 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:11,960 So it's very difficult, I cannot lie. 173 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,200 And I will say that you need to have that mindset that somebody 174 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,200 wants something good for you, wants you to improve at your 175 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,400 work. Once doctor annoyed, you're not 176 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,440 annoyed. People wants to improve 177 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:28,680 collaboration within the team. And despite the fact that they 178 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:30,960 mean well, they might do it in a mean way. 179 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:36,000 And and your emotions might be like what that guy is talking 180 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,120 about. I'm going to explode or erupt at 181 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,160 the moment, but it's good to get past that. 182 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,240 Your emotions. Be self aware of how you feel 183 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,360 when you receive feedback even before you get it. 184 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:52,480 If you're usually when I get feedback I get defensive, maybe 185 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,720 I should do it differently. Because when this is our natural 186 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,680 instinct, when somebody tells something bad about us, we 187 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:03,240 already think how to defend ourselves and get out of this 188 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,320 mess basically. So instead of that, use 189 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,200 techniques that you know very well from being ABA. 190 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,400 Actively listen to a person, ask questions, paraphrase. 191 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,800 So what you are so angry about, right? 192 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,960 Or why does it make you angry or why does it influence the team? 193 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,440 What I don't see that. What have I done wrong? 194 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,320 And because of those open questions, somebody also will 195 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,840 change their mindset because sometimes they come, you know, 196 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,720 it's not like they prepared that feedback or that they spent 197 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,440 enough time preparing the message they want to pass. 198 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:48,720 They just accumulated the anger, frustration and they burst in 199 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,040 with feedback. They didn't want to. 200 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,600 They don't like to do that, but they did because that's how 201 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,240 people are. We are driven by our emotions. 202 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,800 And, and that can be a good thing. 203 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,440 And it can also be a not good thing, especially when you are 204 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,400 trying to talk to somebody. You know, you, you use that 205 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,720 phrase self aware to be self aware and to to use 206 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,200 self-awareness. And I think it is, it is 207 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,160 important to be self aware when receiving, but also when giving. 208 00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:29,160 And so if you know that you really are angry or frustrated 209 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,880 or disappointed and you need to give this feedback, you might 210 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:39,320 need to 1st recognize that you feel those feelings and know 211 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,800 that if you don't address them, they will come out in your in 212 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,040 the feedback. So if you need to take a minute 213 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,960 and that minute could be a day, whatever it is, right, you need 214 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:56,520 to you as the person giving that feedback need to take a little 215 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:01,240 bit of time to address your feelings so that you can focus 216 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,920 on facts and the consequences and the expectations like you 217 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,920 said. And I will use the Christmas 218 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,160 analogy again, OK? Because if you want feedback to 219 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:17,840 be well done, you need to wrap it up, prepare it, nurture it, 220 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,120 and then when you are ready, you put it under Christmas tree. 221 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,200 And in this terms, you go to a person and share your feedback. 222 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,360 Otherwise, if you don't do that, if you don't prepare, even if 223 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:33,240 you feel I'm calm now, I'm really calm, I can go And then 224 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,640 on the surface everything seems OK and you feel that you've, 225 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,560 that you are dealing with your emotions, but it's still fresh, 226 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,280 it's still unprepared. The message you haven't thought 227 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,480 about just that I'm going, I need to tell that guy, I need to 228 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,640 tell this person that, that I need to share that feedback now. 229 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:57,520 And then the reaction to your feedback might not be as good as 230 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:02,120 you thought. And that fear or anger or any 231 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,680 emotion that you have on the surface, underneath the surface 232 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,640 might come out. And then this is not long, 233 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,000 longer a conversation. This is no longer a gift. 234 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,360 This is a dispute. And it can, as you know, in your 235 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,320 private life as well. It can go anyway, basically. 236 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,400 Yeah, by the way, nice tie in with the holidays. 237 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,680 Also, I want to talk about your Christmas sweater, which I am 238 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:35,040 appreciating because it has both Christmas trees and a skull and 239 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:39,440 crossbones, which. What you don't see there is also 240 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:45,720 a bad wolf in there, so yeah. It's fantastic. 241 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,960 I would not call that an ugly Christmas sweater. 242 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,840 I would call that genius, by the way. 243 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,920 Thank you. It's supposed to be it's. 244 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,600 That's enough anyways. It's like with feedback. 245 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,080 It has very good size and very bad size. 246 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,200 It can be very good, it can be very bad. 247 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,520 It depends how you how you do it and how you receive it. 248 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,120 That's right, people might think that your Christmas sweater is a 249 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,240 is Bah humbug. It is anti Christmas. 250 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,760 I see it as very much about Christmas. 251 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,120 Well. Somebody told me recently that 252 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,600 in Austria, for example, they celebrate Christmas and there is 253 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,080 crumples, right? So this devil look alike and 254 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,360 they celebrate it as well as the other side of and it's very fun 255 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,520 for children and so on. So I take a look at such 256 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,840 analogies and I think sometimes you need to take those things 257 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,840 that hurt, those things that are not, that you do not receive 258 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,800 well and try to transform them into something good. 259 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,640 And this is with feedback. Somebody I got feedback which 260 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,000 was like, oh, look at your user story. 261 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,960 The other BA done it so much better. 262 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:03,600 Look at it, it's a mess. And I was like, you know, I'm 263 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,760 going to tell him what mess he is, right? 264 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:12,880 But instead, take a step back, listen to what person has to 265 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,160 say, ask questions, and you don't need to respond to 266 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,440 feedback instantly. You can go back, see that in 267 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,800 your favorite answer, take a sip of favorite coffee or whatever 268 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:26,000 you like. Or whatever. 269 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:32,440 Yes, or whatever. And then you think, OK, actually 270 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,040 in with this, he's right or she's right. 271 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,480 And with that, not really. And you can still disagree. 272 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:46,640 It's not an obligation to turn all feedback into actionable 273 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,800 insights. Sometimes you just need to come 274 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,880 back and say, you look, I analysed what you said and 275 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,440 you're right. When it comes to this and that, 276 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,240 with this, I do not agree because this and that, and maybe 277 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,720 we can sit down together and find another way. 278 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:07,520 And that opens a relationship because somebody says, actually 279 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,840 I've been hurt. So it's not like I'm talking to 280 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,480 a wall that doesn't respond, or to someone that doesn't have any 281 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,440 will to improve. Yeah. 282 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,680 So there's a lot there. So let's unpack. 283 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,520 I want to restate what you've said because this is really 284 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,560 important, because very often, using another Christmas analogy, 285 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,440 it's like we got a gift that we did not want. 286 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,640 For example, when you are a child, right? 287 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,440 When you are a child, what is this? 288 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,120 Right. I did not want underwear and 289 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:44,960 socks, mom. I wanted a video game. 290 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:51,760 Exactly. So I like maybe it's something 291 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,880 that we don't think about, that we can take some time to think 292 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,200 about that feedback. If you want to take time to 293 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:04,040 respond to that feedback, what do you suggest people say to the 294 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,200 person? I hear you. 295 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,520 I hear you. And and it's important that you 296 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,800 share it because I appreciate that. 297 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,760 And that's important to say that you appreciate the feedback. 298 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,280 Look, it's there is a lot to unpack as you said, and I need 299 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,960 to think about it. There are some valid points, 300 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,720 with some I might not agree, but I need to think about it and 301 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,320 analyze and I'll come back to you. 302 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:29,880 Nice. Yeah, nice. 303 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:36,120 So it says I heard you. And sometimes conversations can 304 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:41,160 go wrong because we feel like we are not heard. 305 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,200 And so acknowledging I heard what you said and I want to 306 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,000 think about it and get back to you. 307 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,720 It says I may not love it, but I'll I'll let you know how I 308 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,400 want to respond. I also love that you said that. 309 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,320 You can disagree. You can disagree. 310 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:07,160 Feedback is sometimes not as objective as it seems. 311 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:13,760 Look, we might lie to ourselves that we are objective, but we 312 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,120 are not. We are people that are driven by 313 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:20,840 emotions, by different external conditions, and everything we do 314 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,560 is subjective. It's from our own perspective. 315 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,400 It's how we've perceived the world itself, how we perceive 316 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:32,480 people around us and how even if we want to be objective, we 317 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,400 never will be 100% objective. And we need to acknowledge that. 318 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,120 And we need to also acknowledge that what is in our system of 319 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:44,640 values is important, might not be important for other people, 320 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,840 or maybe not as important As for us. 321 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,040 Yeah, yeah. So that cultural element as 322 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:56,560 well, especially as we are a very international, you know, 323 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,360 we're going to say we work in international organizations. 324 00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,960 Many of us, you're right, there's a cultural component to 325 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,400 things that might be important or not important, or how I 326 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,400 respond or accept feedback. Yeah, Yeah. 327 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,280 I mean, you need to think about that when you want to give that 328 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,240 feedback, especially when you don't know that person very 329 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,320 well. And then I would say that 330 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,400 approaching this with delicacies and we're being delicate even 331 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:29,480 and try to first do a little bit of a probe like instead of 332 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,720 instantly going into I have feedback for you. 333 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,400 Do you have any feedback for me? Do you like working with my, 334 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,840 with me? Do you see my user stories or my 335 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,640 deliverables a good quality are good quality for you? 336 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,320 Or you miss something and then you start the conversation. 337 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,560 Although you your goal from the very beginning is to pass your 338 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:55,000 feedback because you might look like something, but it opens up 339 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,520 people and they are more open to conversation because you want to 340 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,400 hear them first. Yes, yeah. 341 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:07,200 And if you, especially in those moments, if you think about I 342 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,840 want to build a relationship with you, relationships are all 343 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,920 about feedback. Every relationship that I have 344 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,200 has some level of feedback because that's how we get to 345 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,320 know people. And you know, just like we said, 346 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,080 feedback is not, it may seem objective, but it isn't. 347 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:33,080 Sometimes when you start digging into the details of what's been 348 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,920 shared with you can realize the person that has given you 349 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,160 feedback didn't have all of the information. 350 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,200 And it's a great opportunity to open the door to, OK, I heard 351 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,600 what you said, let me give you a little more information. 352 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:51,840 Does that change things? Yeah, as long as you do not go 353 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,240 defensive with it, because a lot of people, what I see and I try 354 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,520 to help them with that, is that when I share feedback, they 355 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,640 instantly go into this stance of explaining themselves. 356 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:11,240 I did it because I wasn't aware and they are finding different 357 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:16,880 ways to excuse themselves instead of really listening to 358 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:22,120 what I have to say. So OK, I am not saying that 359 00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:25,480 you've done it on purpose or you wanted to do something wrong. 360 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,680 Let's take a step back and think how we could improve things. 361 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,080 And it's not about me judging your behavior or anything else. 362 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,160 It's just about having a conversation. 363 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,000 Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I know what you mean. 364 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,320 I know that sometimes our instinct when we get feedback 365 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,760 that we don't like is to explain why we did it. 366 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,040 But I and boy, sometimes I have to work at this. 367 00:23:55,120 --> 00:24:02,440 I, I try to be quiet and put on my listening ears, especially if 368 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:08,840 I feel like I disagree, because there will sometimes be that one 369 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:14,800 nugget that I get from that person that I think, oh, OK, I 370 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,480 think I see, I think I see where they're trying to help me. 371 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:25,040 And then being open to then paraphrasing like you said, and 372 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:32,200 asking questions can open that door to understanding exactly 373 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:37,760 what they are trying to tell me. But boy, do I have to listen to 374 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,960 myself. And so, you know, maybe not a 375 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,480 lot of people think about what it means to be self aware, but I 376 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,800 always think, how do I feel? Do I feel like my chest is 377 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,120 tightening? Do I feel like I'm sweating? 378 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,080 Do I feel like I'm like, I want to be angry? 379 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,200 That's those are important clues from your body that you might 380 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:11,360 not be taking this well. So just know that if you react 381 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:15,120 from that place, you may not get the benefit of the. 382 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:19,600 Fear to be honest, I'm before I got self aware and I'm not 383 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,120 saying that I'm a master of self-awareness here at the time, 384 00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:28,160 but I remember myself responding very badly to feedback and to 385 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,480 things that I thought are wrong because I wasn't self aware how 386 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,080 emotions influence what I say and think. 387 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,520 And here shout out to one of my mentors along the way to ever 388 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,280 united. Things are very nice for 389 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,040 listening call you listen. She told me, Papa, you need to 390 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:50,400 calm down and you need to think about your emotions because you 391 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:55,480 can achieve so many things, but you need to be self aware how 392 00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:00,360 emotions are turning you into a very, you know, shaky person 393 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,080 that responds with sadness, anger and so on instead of 394 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,480 processing your emotions. So I've done a large share with 395 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,480 that to think how I feel when people judge me or give 396 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,320 feedback. And the picture was not 397 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,680 brilliant, was not pretty. So then I took that step back 398 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,360 and started to think about this topic at all, to study it and so 399 00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:26,520 on. And that's also what I encourage 400 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,440 you to do. If you think that you are not 401 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,040 good at sharing and give and receiving feedback, maybe it can 402 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,840 be processed. You just need to do a little bit 403 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,760 of work. You need to talk with other 404 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,320 people that had the same problem. 405 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,120 Because we are not born as feedback champions. 406 00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:45,320 That's right. You before we got started today, 407 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,440 you and I were talking that sometimes the way that we might 408 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:54,200 react to feedback is based on what we have seen as kids and 409 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,280 that might not have been a good experience. 410 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,800 Yeah, how you are driving this bicycle, it's totally wrong. 411 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,360 Yeah, how? You need to use fork and knife 412 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:08,240 for that. I told you how many times I need 413 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:09,440 to say it. That's right. 414 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:16,640 And and we may not have gotten good clues as to what is good 415 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,880 feedback because, yeah, parents, you're a parent. 416 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,680 You know, sometimes you, those kids are doing something and you 417 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,440 need to tell them, right? Then don't do that, right? 418 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,520 And so sometimes it gets delivered with an emotion that 419 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,960 you don't intend. So I think this is an 420 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:40,480 opportunity in what you've been sharing and in the work that we 421 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:46,560 do to build some skills that will be useful across all 422 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,840 aspects of your life. That's true if you think about 423 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,400 self-awareness, Yeah. If you know what you think, what 424 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,280 you feel at the very same moment when something happens, well, 425 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,880 it's a very good start to do something about it. 426 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,520 If you think about sharing feedback with kindness and with 427 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,520 thinking about giving a gift to someone, maybe it's also 428 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,800 something you can do in your professional life. 429 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,560 So whatever you do, treat it as you want to wrap it, prepare it 430 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,160 and give it away as perfect as you can do, but not with 431 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,600 perfectionism. That's what I will fight always, 432 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,920 because we are not perfect. The world is not perfect, and 433 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,160 feedback is not perfect either. So and also think about active 434 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,120 listening and how listening is more important than talking. 435 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,880 Talking is easy. Talking is cheap. 436 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,000 Listening is difficult. Yes. 437 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,160 And exploring the art of active listening is really important. 438 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,000 That's a skill that will help you in every situation. 439 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,640 Because if you listen during a conversation at the store, 440 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,720 during a conversation at the institution somewhere, if you 441 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,480 listen what people are saying, maybe you'll find a solution. 442 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,040 If you don't listen, you only find problems. 443 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,080 That's right. You're right, listening is hard. 444 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,520 Active listening is really hard because very, you know, we're in 445 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,200 the business of solving problems. 446 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:16,320 So very often, as soon as I hear something, I am moving on to how 447 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,320 do we solve that? But it's in the listening that 448 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,440 you hear, not just the problem somebody is having, but the way 449 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,760 that they feel about it, Things that they have tried, other 450 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,000 aspects of that problem that you might not have thought about. 451 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,640 It's hard to stay silent, I know, but it. 452 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,040 But you're right, so much of communication is the listening. 453 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,040 Yeah, If you think about also everyday situations that you set 454 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,680 about parenting, but also marriage, it's like instantly, 455 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:56,160 we, especially myself, I'm going instantly into solving problems 456 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,720 when my wife says, I just wanted you to hear me. 457 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:06,200 I don't want you to go instantly and do it because you can't 458 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,920 solve all of my problems even if you would like to. 459 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,880 But I just need someone to hear me and that's what is it. 460 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,440 With feedback, sometimes people just need to share. 461 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,840 They don't need instant action from you. 462 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,880 We need you to analyze, understand, listen to them, and 463 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,040 then make your move. Yeah. 464 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,280 So that idea of being heard, I just need for you to hear what I 465 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,640 have to say. We don't have to argue or agree 466 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,720 or do something about it. I just need for you to hear it. 467 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:41,200 And so, yeah, I hope as people are listening to us today that 468 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:46,200 they are thinking about not just giving and receiving feedback as 469 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:52,080 the skill to build, but all of the other social skills around 470 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,240 it. Those are all important to our 471 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,680 work as business analysis professionals. 472 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,000 Yeah. Couldn't agree more. 473 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,080 And also an important thing to say is remember that you are not 474 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,640 responsible for how people receive feedback. 475 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,560 Yeah. You don't have any idea what 476 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,280 they are dealing with, how they are feeling, how they will 477 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,000 receive it, Even if you've done everything you could in your 478 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:20,240 power to make the feedback, to make the feedback digestible and 479 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,720 reasonable, they might be going over things that you don't know 480 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,960 about and they will respond and react badly and that's not your 481 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,600 fault. Somebody might not be ready, 482 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,440 might not be self aware. You've done what you could and 483 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,520 good. Mission accomplished, You should 484 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,640 be proud of yourself because a lot of people help hold back 485 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,520 their feedback and their relationships start to 486 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:49,040 dereteriate and be awful sometimes to a point that there 487 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,240 is a conflict approaching because nobody said what should 488 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,080 be said before. Right. 489 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,920 There's a cost to avoiding giving and giving feedback as 490 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,280 well that we also have to think about here. 491 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,040 That's really an important point. 492 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,040 Well, let's see. We have got some thoughts and 493 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,760 some questions today. And by the way, this is a little 494 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,280 bit of a bummer, but if you normally join us on YouTube, I 495 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,360 am sad to say that we have a problem with our connector 496 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,360 today. So if you've our social media 497 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,600 person, Roslyn, put a note over there. 498 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,920 Hopefully you guys have found us over here. 499 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,560 That's a bummer. I think we'll have some feedback 500 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:31,960 for YouTube. OK. 501 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,480 OK. Well, let's take a couple of 502 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,320 questions and there might actually be some comments in 503 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,360 here, so we can respond to those as well. 504 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,040 OK. So let's see, we've got 505 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,680 something here from Rishi giving, OK, so emotional 506 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,080 feedback versus logical feedback. 507 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,040 And then I see receiving emotional response versus a 508 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,960 logical response. That's a curious beast because, 509 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,760 you know, we have different people. 510 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,440 Some of us are more logical persons and some are emotional 511 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,840 people and some of us are for both depending of the 512 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,960 circumstances or or depending of how we feel today. 513 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,760 Today I feel illogical because everything fells apart and 514 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,400 that's it. So whatever we do, we need to be 515 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,480 ourselves. If we are more on this emotional 516 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,800 side, we need to be self aware of that and we can't be robots. 517 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,080 That's why we we use emotions in feedback. 518 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,640 We say how we feel and also we say logically. 519 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,600 The facts are the consequences are. 520 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,040 So it's a little bit of everything and how somebody 521 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,160 responds. As said, we cannot influence 522 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:49,360 that. So we just, we just prepare 523 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,080 ourselves for both options. It might be logical, it might be 524 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,000 emotional and we need to be prepared for both. 525 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,160 And if it's emotional and we feel badly about it, it's so 526 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,680 again, the same thing. Step back. 527 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,440 I hear you. I know it angers you. 528 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,159 Let's find the common ground and think about it. 529 00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:13,120 Yeah, that's right. And you're right, an emotional 530 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,960 versus a logical response. On any given day, somebody that 531 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,960 you think might give one response over the other, they 532 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,560 could surprise you. Because you're right, sometimes 533 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,560 we have lots of things going on in our lives that have nothing 534 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,679 to do with what's happening at work, which could generate an 535 00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:34,159 unexpected response. So yeah, but I think being ready 536 00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:37,719 for anything but, but I would say don't overthink it. 537 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,400 Like if you're getting ready to give feedback, don't overthink. 538 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,360 Well, this could go like, we're not putting together a risk 539 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,159 plan. Like don't overthink it. 540 00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:52,320 Just think how would I react if somebody handled this badly? 541 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,600 And sometimes it's really surprising because we know a 542 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,800 person, we think we get along just fine, and then you realize 543 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,000 that feedback triggers something devilish in that person. 544 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,800 That's right, and it happens. You're right. 545 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,480 Yes, it does. Okey Doke here. 546 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,600 Let's take a This is kind of another comment from Hussein. 547 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,920 I think the most difficult feedback to accept is from 548 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,240 people who don't accept feedback themselves. 549 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,240 You and I, before we got started today, we talked about the 550 00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:26,360 importance of being coachable and I think that's what Hussain 551 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:31,080 is suggesting here. Yeah, once again, we can't be 552 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,240 responsible for what others think or what others do. 553 00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:41,320 And I agree with you that it's extremely difficult to accept 554 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,920 feedback from someone who previously showed multiple times 555 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,120 that they do not care about your feedback or do not care about 556 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,640 your emotions. The only stance that I can offer 557 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,760 here is assume that they don't want anything bad for you. 558 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,000 Assume that. And even if you can't get past 559 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,440 that point, what Susan said before, take that one nugget 560 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,760 that you find reasonable in what others say. 561 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,160 Because you will encounter toxic people in your life, no doubt 562 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,160 about it. And they are first to share 563 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,960 feedback or to dress feedback or dress something else as 564 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,800 feedback, some kind of regret, some kind of vengeance, I don't 565 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,560 know. And you will have that and it 566 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:33,120 will happen from time to time. And the only thing is try to 567 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,280 analyse it and take anything that is valuable from it. 568 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,040 And if it's not valuable still. Thank you for your feedback. 569 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,400 I appreciate that. I will get back to you. 570 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,960 And that disarms such people quite nicely. 571 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,120 Some, not always. But a lot, you are so right. 572 00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:55,120 You are so right. And sometimes those folks who do 573 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,720 not give feedback, well, maybe they're toxic, maybe whatever. 574 00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:03,640 They just don't have those skills sometimes by you being 575 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:08,240 kind, even if you just got a bunch of feedback which isn't 576 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:12,880 helpful or which seems mean spirited sometimes if you can 577 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:18,040 show kindness. Thank you for that is sometimes 578 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,080 it can disarm them. Yeah. 579 00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:22,600 So that you can get something useful. 580 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,200 All right, so let's see. We have got. 581 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,160 Here's one from Mark. Mark says from experience, the 582 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,440 absence of feedback is much more dangerous than the negative or 583 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,160 constructive feedback. Yes. 584 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,000 Couldn't agree more. That's the essence of it because 585 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,720 you know and I do not perceive feedback as negative as well. 586 00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:49,080 It's always constructive even if it says something wrong about us 587 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:54,320 or others because if it's shape, if it's prepared properly, it's 588 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,640 always constructive if it's negative, what have you done? 589 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,520 OK, let's put that aside. Let's box it, let's pack it and 590 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,720 listen to whatever else is there. 591 00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:09,080 But that's a valid point. If you do not share feedback, if 592 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,440 you do not talk with each other, if you do not have that 593 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,160 conversation, people are turning into live volcanoes. 594 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:22,240 They're sitting, accumulate, accumulating those emotions 595 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,720 until they explode. And then the whole project, the 596 00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:30,440 whole team can fall down. And I've seen that in the past. 597 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:36,960 Yeah, that's, I think that is the cost of not giving feedback 598 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:42,360 is things build up. So there's a cost to that, and 599 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,320 it is not polite to withhold that. 600 00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:49,080 Give you a situation of life situation. 601 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,800 We've been in the office with four or five people. 602 00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:53,960 And of course in office, what do you have? 603 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,080 Air conditioning, which tends to be a conflict point in every 604 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,320 place like that. It's colder around here. 605 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:07,080 I'll go and turn up the heating and that person goes away and 606 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,480 another person instantly stands up. 607 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,520 It's too hot. And that Symphony of steps 608 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:22,680 continues throughout 234 weeks until they just explode because 609 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,280 they do not discuss the terms of living, of being in the same 610 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,600 room. So when I go away, you can do 611 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,280 with air conditioning whatever you like. 612 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,360 When I come back, I like it a little bit more warm. 613 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,080 Is that OK with you? It's a conversation, it's a 614 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,600 feedback. Otherwise it's like a play in 615 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,400 theater, which is funny to observe, but not that funny when 616 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:47,120 it erupts. That's. 617 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,160 True. Yeah, that's true. 618 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,880 And what a perfect example, right, of something that 619 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,320 probably people have a lot of emotion about. 620 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,760 I'm too hot, I'm too cold and somebody keeps messing around 621 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:06,480 with the the temperature, right. So feedback is an opportunity 622 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,680 for a conversation and an understanding SO. 623 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,960 All right, so let's see, here's we've got another. 624 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,440 So here's this is from someone listening to us on LinkedIn 625 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,600 today. Frame the negative feedback is a 626 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:26,040 time for everyone to learn. Exactly what I didn't say, and 627 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:32,320 thank you for that point is that you, you can shape the culture 628 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,640 of feedback at your workplace or in your team. 629 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,320 So when I take over a team or when I join a team, I usually 630 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,040 start from words. That's hello, I'm power. 631 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,280 This is who I am and it's all and I'm open to feedback. 632 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,840 So whatever you want to tell me, please do. 633 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,160 I'm not going to be angry. I'm not be I will not be 634 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,080 offended. Let's make feedback our usual 635 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,840 ways of working. I even tend to add it was one of 636 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:06,680 the values of the team because if we are open and we can share 637 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:11,920 feedback with each other, then we improve as a team because we 638 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:16,600 are honest with each other, we care how we feel, we care how we 639 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:23,480 work, so it improves us all. Well, yeah, that I can see how 640 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:28,040 that would shape the culture. And I think it's a great, maybe 641 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:34,000 a great team guideline is we should not only talk about the 642 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:39,000 way that we communicate our, our team hours, the tools that we 643 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,200 use. Let's also talk about how we 644 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,360 want to give and receive feedback. 645 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,080 And you know, as you were talking about that, I was 646 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:52,320 thinking for some of us, for for some people, the only time we 647 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:58,160 get feedback is during a performance review, which can be 648 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,880 a long time between when we did the thing and we're getting the 649 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,680 feedback. So if you build in that 650 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,120 guideline into how your team works, you are getting the 651 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,440 feedback as it is happening and you are making decisions as a 652 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,920 team, as an individual, how you're going to respond to that, 653 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,080 it does improve teams. Yeah. 654 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,120 And the important thing which you said is that timing of 655 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,480 feedback is really important. Yes. 656 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:32,280 Because let's say I'm giving a presentation to an audience and 657 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,160 I'm standing backwards to the screen, so I'm talking and 658 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,720 nobody says that there is nothing there until it finishes. 659 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,360 Was this timely and send somebody look? 660 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,360 It was very impressive, but there was nothing on the screen 661 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,120 afterwards. It's not worth much because I 662 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,200 can't do anything about it anymore. 663 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,000 So time your feedback as well. So do not wait three months, 664 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,560 five months, a year. Try to be on point with your 665 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,320 feedback so when it's needed share it basic. 666 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,920 Yeah, and I think you just answered Ivana's question, which 667 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:13,880 is how often to give feedback as soon as possible, don't wait and 668 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,280 how to give feedback on sensitive topics. 669 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:21,160 Well, I, I would only imagine what can be a sensitive topic. 670 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,680 And there are sometimes topics that giving feedback is even 671 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,800 more uncomfortable. So because it's about how 672 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,880 somebody behaves, not professionally, but but 673 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:38,400 basically in your relationships. And I must say that for me, 674 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:43,400 usually it's just be honest. Don't keep it for yourself. 675 00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:47,120 I had a problem with one of the people I worked with because I 676 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,120 respect someone's personal space and I expect that to be done for 677 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:52,720 myself. But some people are like, you 678 00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:56,560 know, touching so. And somebody was all the time 679 00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,000 coming from the back, grabbing my arms and everything. 680 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,640 And I just look, I respect you, but I don't like you touching me 681 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:09,800 all the time because we are not that close yet and it makes me 682 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,280 inconvenient. So after a year or two, when we 683 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,640 got to know each other, it didn't bother me anymore. 684 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,720 But at the beginning of the relationship it was quite 685 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:23,000 strange for me. And I know that is also a 686 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,560 cultural thing, because myself as a Polish guy might have a 687 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,240 little bit more distance if I was suffering from another 688 00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:34,040 country, from another region, maybe it was, would be normal 689 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:38,880 for me, but it wasn't. So I, I just went along with it 690 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:45,480 and I said very politely, very calmly, but still to the point. 691 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,680 Yeah. And, you know, I could also see 692 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,800 where, you know, if I was a woman and it was a man that came 693 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,680 up and put their hands on me, I would want to make sure that I 694 00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:00,040 gave that feedback very timely. I'm really not comfortable. 695 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,600 Yeah. With you touching me like that. 696 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:07,640 I you know, so just please know that I don't, it's not 697 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:12,800 appreciated. You can find ways to give that 698 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,040 feedback so that what's important to you is conveyed to 699 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,840 them, and then how they receive it is how they receive it. 700 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,840 Exactly. And you know, I said in the 701 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,920 beginning, facts, You say you touch me a lot. 702 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,920 It makes me uncomfortable, so it won't. 703 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,960 It makes me want to not get in touch with you all so often. 704 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,160 So if you would could stop that for the moment because we are 705 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,360 not so close, I would be really grateful. 706 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,640 Yeah. And that's still polite and 707 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,120 that's still OK. And I know there will be more 708 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,520 sensitive matters. Somebody failed your 709 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,440 expectations, somebody did something wrong to you and so 710 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,480 on. But keeping it all to yourself 711 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:04,240 usually is not a solution. Sometimes we say about time, if 712 00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:09,400 somebody's grieving or somebody's in a bad, bad shape, 713 00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:13,360 maybe that's not a great time for feedback because it won't be 714 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,520 appreciated. It might not even be heard. 715 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,760 Sometimes you need to hold back for a moment, even if it angers 716 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,960 you, even if it frustrates you. Yes, Yeah, totally agree. 717 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,360 Yeah. All right, so let's see. 718 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:31,240 Well, I think we are at the end of our time together. 719 00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:34,480 Boy, this sounded like the feedback that our audience 720 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,280 needed today on giving and receiving feedback. 721 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,920 And yeah, I, I think I'm just going to pop this comment up 722 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,840 really quickly. This is from Harmeet. 723 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,720 I think negative feedback is important, especially in the 724 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:49,680 work that we do. If accepted as learning and it's 725 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:54,080 discussed properly, it helps you to build stakeholder trust, 726 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,680 which is ultimately the business that we're in. 727 00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,960 We are in a trust business and I think our stakeholders need to 728 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,680 know that we give feedback, we give information from a good 729 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,440 place because we want to improve the relationship, the project, 730 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,520 the organization. So I think that's why this is 731 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,600 really critical that we know how to do this. 732 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,040 Exactly how we listen to our stakeholders while we get along. 733 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,560 Look, you can do a perfect job, but if you want to build a 734 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,240 relationship, the project probably will fail. 735 00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,560 Yeah, that's my learning from the years past. 736 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:32,840 Yeah, I agree. All right. 737 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:37,240 Well, Pavel, it has been really lovely to see you again and to 738 00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:41,960 talk to you again because you I, I think, really put this into 739 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,720 perspective for folks in a way that I know when I heard you 740 00:47:45,720 --> 00:47:48,480 giving this talk, I thought I can do that. 741 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,880 Yeah, I, I know how to do all of those things that he has 742 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,720 suggested that we do to give good feedback. 743 00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:57,600 I can do that. So I knew that our audience 744 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,040 would really appreciate it. Thank you so much. 745 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,000 It was a huge pleasure, Susan. Yes, and happy holidays to you. 746 00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,280 Happy holidays. Yeah, take care. 747 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,400 Thanks again. All right. 748 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,880 Well, that's it. Maybe you're thinking about some 749 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,720 things that you can take away with giving and receiving 750 00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:16,720 feedback and that you can put into practice today. 751 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,480 I hope so. This really does help to make 752 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,520 our relationships, not only with our stakeholders, but with our 753 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,360 family, our friends. It really can help on all 754 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,720 levels. Well, I'm going to see you again 755 00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:32,080 in two weeks. It's going to be New Year's Eve 756 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,840 and it's time for another best of business analysis live. 757 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,360 What do you think our top five episodes were from this past 758 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,120 year? Well, you'll have to listen in 759 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,480 and find out. Hey, I want to thank all of you 760 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,920 for joining us. And I wish you and all of your 761 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,960 family and friends a very happy holiday season. 762 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:53,880 Take care. Do you have any questions, 763 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,800 comments or thoughts about today's topic? 764 00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,680 We'd love to hear them. Drop us a review or leave a note 765 00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,160 in the comments. Then like, subscribe or share 766 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:02,920 this podcast if you like what you heard. 767 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,440 And hey, you can help us shape future episodes. 768 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,120 What do you want to know more about? 769 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:11,400 Send us an e-mail at Live at iiba.org with your ideas. 770 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,280 See you again on our next episode.