In the Beginning Podcast runs the Gold Coast Marathon.
The series continues and continues in some fine fashion
today because whilst we've had the benefit and the privilege of
having Benita Willis, arguably Australia's greatest ever
distance runner, join us as a coach, lace up running.
We've had Bronte Langbroe come on board as our first time
marathon. We've had all the various
experts that have rolled through.
Today we are joined by a two time Commonwealth gold medallist
over the marathon distance and a man who in 2018 delivered one of
the greatest runs that the Gold Coast Marathon course has ever
seen in winning gold for Australia.
Mr Michael Shelley, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks very much for having me. Well I'll tell you what, he he
knows how to run the Gold Coast Marathon course.
So if anyone needs some tips, we've got them.
We're going to have them here today.
But you know what, off the bat this is what caught me when you
talk about stats for Mike. So there's only been 3
Australian men to win Commonwealth Games gold medals.
Rob Decostella, Steve Modigetti, Michael Shelley, The Big Three.
I wouldn't put myself in that company, I can tell you that
right now. Those guys were well and truly
above my level, that's for sure. What a bit you say that, but at
the same time 2 Commonwealth Games gold medals.
What we've got to the reason, the main reason we've got you on
today is because we really do want to dig into the course
itself for the Gold Coast Marathon because you know it
better than anybody. Let's talk a bit about where
you're at now because we've Courtney has mentioned at times
over the podcast that you guys have done a bit of running
together. What what are you doing running
wise now? Are you running much?
I am doing a little bit at the moment.
I'm probably running about 10K most days.
It's probably the probably the limit.
I probably the the longest I've had off since I probably retired
was about 10 days. Two weeks probably is the the
longest. But yeah, 10K most days are just
a good start to the day. Obviously in winter it's a
little bit harder because of the the cold weather these days, but
as a Queensland actually had to put some gloves on the other
day, which is not. No, you didn't.
I did. I did live in Canberra for a
couple of years, but that was cold.
But yeah, I was. I must say this was very, very
cold. So how many, how many years
you've been retired? 2019 so it's OK, six years.
But you still start your day with a 10K run.
Still start the day with a 10K run.
It's only when I'm really tired and feel like I need to have a
day off and I don't have to push myself.
But I still love just getting out and just enjoying the the
fresh air at the time. But I also just just clearing
the head, if there's anything, you know, that you're sort of
worried about just going out and having a run.
Yeah, did. It take, was there a break?
Like did you think when you retired did then you suddenly
go, I just don't want to run for a while and then it's you've
come back to it or it was just continued?
No, that's pretty much continued the whole way.
I just, when I did make the decision, I sort of settled up
for six weeks just to make sure it was where I really that I've
had enough. And it just got to the point
where I didn't want to get back and do the hard sessions.
So for me, that was the reason I was like, I still want to enjoy
running. I think I always will.
But that's where I wanted to leave running, that I didn't
want to hate what I did and just be like, I don't like running
and just don't want to think about it.
I just wanted to always go out there and still enjoy going for
a run. And you?
And you do you still enjoy that sensation of going out and going
for a run? Absolutely.
I still love it. You know, I love getting up some
mornings and and just doing a harder run some mornings it's
just very easy. But I just still like getting
out and get out the door and have a run.
Say G'day to people as I as I run past, good morning, that
sort of thing. I, I love doing that.
It's a great way to start the day.
How does, how's your mind 'cause I know old maid Atkinson over
here hasn't been able to turn off the competitive switch yet,
have have you? Have you made peace with that
side of yourself as a former pro athlete or elite athlete?
Yeah, I think I have. For me, it comes to the point
where I just the the whole with structure and having to get
ready for a race. It wasn't where I wanted to be
anymore. But I can still go and do a
couple of sessions if I want to do something a little bit harder
or like, and then just run for sort of six weeks, 7 weeks and
then decide, oh, I might want to do something else, do a couple
of sessions and do it like it's, it's to me, it's it's done
there. There is a little bit still
there, but it's not not where it needs to be to be at the
competitive level that all wants was.
So if you go out to those sessions and let's say you join
in with a with a group, because this is where Courtney struggles
still, is that when he goes out and he sees the young ones who
are leading the sessions now, do you still want to jump in with
them or are you happy to let them run ahead?
Mike's underplaying it here because I invite him to our
session sometimes down at the spit, and he's still bloody
lead. He's still OK.
He OK. Trust me, he hasn't.
He hasn't. He hasn't lost.
He's downplaying how? Well, he's still OK, alright,
he's still off the front. And then yeah, like he can.
I mean, I think I like it's quite amazing how quick you just
off not the structured training anymore, how quickly you can
just pick up a session and run with it and still.
It's definitely not as good as what it once was, but.
No, no, well, it never is going to be hey on structure, because
I think people listening are doing the Gold Coast Marathon
specifically will be interested in this.
When you talk about structure of being able, like you just got
over it happening to prepare, explain how because you did two,
you had a goal of two marathons a year, right?
Yep. Anyway, once you got into that
marathon phase, explain you know what you went through and why,
how it was structured and why you did it that way.
So for me, it's probably a bit more of the old school sort of
training set up because with my coach, Dick Telfer, we used to
and everyone back in probably the early 90s and that sort of
even the 80s. I think they used to do like
long run 2, two to three sessions a week.
And that's basically what is a bit like a track sort of season.
That's why I sort of look at it as but just a little bit more
volume in those sort of training sessions.
So I'd do my long run on a Sunday, have an easy Monday with
some gym or some circuit sort of style sort of efforts and that
sort of thing. Tuesday was always a track
session or longer efforts and then Thursday either bit longer
or Saturday with depending on what the phase of the programme
was. Either do a long Thursday or an
and then an easier Saturday before a long run, or do a
harder Thursday into a race race effort on Saturday in an easier
Sunday long run. Like just I was doing sort of
three hard sessions a week plus a long run.
Yeah. And filtering it with not jump
miles, but just making sure the legs were recovered ready to go
for the next session. And why 2 marathons a year?
So why wouldn't you try and just do one goal big one?
Or like maybe try and do 3 or 4? Like what What?
What was the two that made sense?
Oh, for me, like it was in a way of setting up for trying to make
teams and that sort of thing. So the the years that I didn't
sort of I'd do 2 to prepare for hopefully making the team for an
Olympics or con games. So and then fully focused on
doing a longer prep into that sort of preparation year for
that sort of race and what's. The prep?
What's the prep phase like when you say a long prep?
So just enjoy doing some different distances, like doing
half marathons and 10 KS, just making a little bit, not sort of
the hot long drag that a marathon build up can.
Because after every marathon I had three weeks off.
I did not touch my running fees. It was done.
It was like I went on holidays. So that was part of my enjoyment
with marathons and what I loved about the most was I'd pick a
destination I'd go to to race there and then I'll have a look
around after the the venue or the city that I was in, just to
experience the real culture of the city as well as obviously
running that whole city in that regard.
That is grab hold of that if you're listening to this, if
you're going on a run, whatever it is, or if you're part of the
Events Management Queensland, you've just heard Michael
Shelley deliver that. This is what you need to be
putting on all your promotional Flyers for next year and your
advertising is that post race. Take those three weeks and
embrace and reward yourself. I'm guessing for the hard work.
And that was the big thing. I probably couldn't get a test
this way through his training. I used to be a hermit for
probably like the full two to three months leading up to it
was eat, sleep, train people ready to go for race day and
like avoid some things that, you know, could, you know, you could
get sick or you're not getting enough sleep and that sort of
thing. Sometimes, you know, I had to be
mindful that I couldn't go unfortunately to some mate's
parties. But my mates understood, yeah,
what what the process and everything was.
But we always caught up afterwards.
Yeah, I was going to say, they're waiting for you to
finish line, absolutely ready to make up.
For the the three weeks, the three.
Weeks afterwards, it's on. Never joined a mind of Mike's
parties, but I heard he went pretty hard after it all.
Definitely you've just and look, we are going to get to the
course itself, the specific race, but you started to give us
a bit of an insight into how you trained and the way you trained
and why you did. Do you remember what was your
first marathon? First marathon was a Rotterdam
marathon in the Netherlands in 2010.
Do you remember how you felt before that?
Oh, nervous, absolutely. You know myself, Yeah.
But it was just Dick was always trying to get into the mindset
of just making sure, look, just be relaxed and you'll just get
tired. That was the only way it would
put the actual marathon. You'll just get tied towards the
end of it. I was like, OK, that's sweet.
I'll just get tied to just thinking, oh, it's just gonna be
a long loan and you'll get tied towards the end of it.
That's such a. I've never, I've never thought
of the marathon quite so simply. You would just get tired.
You talk to Mike for this hour or so and you'll start to
realise, you know, in in life, if you want to achieve
something, you can just go by a structure and discipline and
keep it simple and it and it works because that's why every
there's much time. So to give a bit of context, you
know, we're sitting here joking around with Michael I when was
it? When I probably started running
with you pre. We did some stuff in 2010,
didn't we? Like.
So my you mean you did most of it your marathon training
completely on your own? So how many KSA week you're
probably doing 170 plus plus plus.
Well, he's pushing UPS about two. 100 to 200 to 210.
So similar to Benita was talking about, you know, that's the
level that like both the guys and the girls were running at
this stage for that marathon prep.
And I used to get the I mean, for me, it was an opportunity
that I'd get to jump in with Mike and I suppose I gave him it
was good someone to have a run with.
But for me it was, it's just like, you know, in some of his
harder, longer sessions, just getting in on the back of him
and kind of hanging on as long as I could.
And sometimes it would completely cook me and destroy
me. And other years it was like the
perfect training for me. But I could never, I could never
keep up the whole way. But the one thing I remember we
talked a lot about on the podcast about cadence or like,
you know, steps per minutes and how you ran.
And I always remember the way I'd stick with Mike.
I'd be able to stick for about 3-4 K in like a 5K Rep with him
in a long session. And I'd be running at your same
cadence. And the 1 And I, it was when you
think about things as simple as possible, I just couldn't
continue that cadence with you. You had this ability to keep
this what, like a certain cadence and just run for that,
like for a marathon, right? And I think looking at you all
over those years, besides the toughness that was one of your
key strengths with with being able to repeat a cadence for as
long as you could. The big thing was I never had a
high knee lift and that's basically even when I was
running track. Running at the Cliffie Shuffle.
It was, it wasn't great. The knee lift wasn't great and
Dick was always trying to work with it and we just never really
got around to a higher cadence. The the knee lift was just
wasn't there. And I was always remembering
train sessions going, doing heel reps and that sort of thing.
Dick was always going knees, knees, knees.
I'm like, I just can't do it, Dick.
It's just, I'm just trying to get still as quickly as I can.
So for me it always I, I just tried running and just try to be
as easy as possible. But in so one of my younger days
when I first started through track and field doing K reps or
I'd always get out hard for the 1st 200 of A1K Rep and then I'll
just try and relax into a rhythm.
So I don't know if it was just due to that always acceleration
that first little bit and then just got into rhythm.
And that's what probably my reps now or back back in the day, I
was always a little bit quicker out, but then it just was able
to get back into a routine, just fall into a routine, just relax
a little bit more. Just hold that cadence.
Yeah, painfully annoying at the same time, reps doing this guy,
he it's like, I mean, and just to give context, before Michael
was into his marathons, what was your 1500?
PB339 end up finishing. 339 so like you know.
For 1500. Had some pace before he went to
the marathon and yeah, when you do a Rep with Mike and still to
today the same thing, he'll run the 1st 10 metres of a Rep as
you kind of click over and go OK, we're on again.
That first 10 metres is like a Sprint and then he settles and
if you're someone who's trying to hang on to him, it's like red
line. And now I've got to try and
settle again and. Yeah, so just.
Just. But I couldn't start quick in a
race. That was my problem with 1500.
For some unknown reason I just couldn't get out of the blocks
quick. I would always sort of get blown
off the the doors off immediately chasing Chase and
then for some reason my last lap always seemed to be, I don't
know if it's just a mental thing for myself to be able to push
through a little bit more at the back end because it's just 400
metres to go. You just tell yourself it's 400
metres to go. Or if it was just I just, the
acceleration just wasn't there for some unknown reason.
The power or something just wasn't there.
Maybe through my technique just wasn't as strong as others in
that regard. But it is what it is.
That's why I look at it. So sorry just quickly and this
might seem weird, so can you run a 4 minute sub 4 minute mile?
I never ran an actual I I tried once but I had the flu doing it
and had to pull out. I had like this massive ball of
Firma coughed it up like after about K and it's like, yeah, no,
not there's there's. A339 equate to a sub formula.
It's in the equivalent sort of territory.
Yeah, right. No, I just, I just as you said,
the time of 1500, I was like, oh, so this is like we've got a
basically got a sub formula mile.
Amazing. Let's go back to the marathon
because that's what we're here to talk about.
But I just, I really liked the way you simplified that first
marathon with Dick Cole saying, well, you'll get tired.
I, I love that because I think we can over complicate and the
boom in marathon and running has come with a whole bunch of
people trying to tell you how to run and how to race and all the
rest of that. But when someone at your
calibre, at the pointy end of the sport, their coach is
literally telling them before their first marathon, you'll
just get tired. I think that for everyday
runners like myself and average people who might be about to run
their first one, that is a great mantra to have on the start
line. You'll just get tired.
We've all been tired at some point in our lives, whether it's
through running or whatever else or partying, you'll have that
feeling. You just get tired.
What did you feel? Do you remember how you felt
after you finished that first marathon?
Yeah, because it was very interesting because I was felt
great till about 36 kilometres, which is probably what everyone
will go feel on race day. Felt amazing, but 2K later I
didn't feel so great. So it hit me pretty quickly.
But at the same time like it didn't go so well the back end,
but I was able to still just tough it out and finish.
I think I ran 213 in my first marathon.
So yeah, I was going a little bit better than that.
When I started, the wheels started falling off.
But yeah, it just was like I Quizzle started to fall to
pieces. I was like, I can do better
because I I wasn't and that so that sort of got into me sort of
straight away. You can do better, recover,
enjoy yourself, you know, enjoy Rotterdam.
Go have a little look around Europe and then come back and
get back into it. And fortunately not enough.
I was like enough to go to Delhi, the Con Games afterwards
and ended up coming second there.
So I was able to sort of write some of those issues that I
might have had in that preparation into a, into a
Commonwealth Games. So cool, so cool It's I really
love hearing the fact that again, we're talking to Michael
Shelley 2 times. Commonwealth game to gold
medalist. What's your PB over the Mara
211? Yep, you.
Gotta remember this is all pre super.
We'll talk shoes a bit later. Pre super shoes all these times
we're talking about. But the fact that pre race
nerves are coach telling you you're gonna get tired, you hit
a wall or you found the wall like all marathon runners will
maybe do in this Gold Coast Marathon in a couple of weeks
time around that 36K mark. And then at the end of the race
it's the same feeling I have had first time off around the Gold
Coast Marathon, which is Oh my God that was horrible.
Never again. 5 minutes later. Oh I can do better than that.
I now wanna focus on the next race.
It's a mental thing, mental approach it is.
And that's the the big thing I tried to do within.
Just keep it as simple as possible.
Don't overstress it because if you start over thinking, oh, I
need this, I need this, you just change little things between
each but not have a massive change.
I think it's is the more you think about it, you start
stressing about it and you're not keeping the simple.
It's just going out there and running.
Yeah, we're on on the location. So we've talked about I've I've
told your story. Yep, I hope that was OK about,
you know, like you spent the, you know, for the 1st 3236 K.
I think it was a London Marathon.
You went to run when you first told me the story about look,
I'm just going to take in. I want to just take in the
sights for that first 32K and then the race starts then and if
I get there easy. So when when did that for how
did that come about? Was it Dick or did you come up
with that? When was it?
Oh, it's just a little bit of through racing itself and then
just obviously conversation with Dick and understanding a lot
more about the actual marathon distance because it's always
going to be a challenge no matter, you know, 42 K like it's
going to be a challenge. And you sort of even just
talking between other athletes like Benita and just if you're
always going to find that just and deke and Mona, you actually
and Lisa Wightman. I always find that, you know,
just finding that sort of through that first 30K, they
were always used to say that you'll feel quite good.
And then it's, and then you really start thinking about that
last 12. You switch on, you focus and
then you start using that energy in in your mind to get to the
finish line that bit quicker. Whereas if you're relaxed, as
most relaxed as possible, you're not stressing, not using extra
energy and you can have use that energy later on in the race.
Did you did you felt so in that non stress thing?
Did you use any Like were you going by feel or by how did you
pace then? A lot of it was by feel and sort
of Dick was in that regard as well, like through, you know,
just trying to be easy, relaxed and being able to not overly
like breathe too heavy. That was probably my other
thing. If not breathing too heavy,
you're not using too much energy and then you can actually then
use that for later on. So that was the, I think even
just practising it and trying, just trying to be as relaxed as
possible and that was basically what I just tried to keep it as
simple as possible. But you had a goal pace because
you'd often go, OK, well this is my goal time and I might have
went out too hard or too easy. How did you, how did you think
about the pacing? Were you just going off purely
times or did you have Agps watch at that stage or?
I never really raced in a watch, so I tried to run to feel.
That was probably my main thing that I tried to do because of
there was always with a pace group that was supposed to run a
lot of the time as we're saying to that 25 to 30 K, they would
have their watch or that sort of thing.
So you're just trying once again, stay relaxed, just enjoy
the city. And then, you know, once they've
sort of pulled out around that 28K mark, the new start, start
switching on a little bit and then push on from there.
That is just, again, the notion probably, there's probably
people listening to this who are much more in my camp than they
are in your two, but the notion of running without a watch, just
that you can control your pace by feel.
Well, you use the watch is a perfect training tool, one of
the best things that have ever been made.
I remember when I first sort of, I think Marty Dent introduced me
to the to Garmin. Yeah.
And like the watches these days are a lot smaller than what the
original ones were. Because what was it that one of
those big old was it? 305, I think it was.
Yeah, like it was big Orange. Big.
There was a big watch on you on your wrist, and I don't have the
biggest risk going around, so heavier.
But yeah, like it just was able to then use that pace and use it
looking at training graphs and that sort of thing.
And that really helped because Dick lives in Canberra and I was
living on the Gold Coast. So for training purposes it was
great. I'd just download my my heart
rate and he was able to interpret it because he's a
science guru. And physiologist gurus and he
was able to interpret how hard the training was and that sort
of thing by comments or by heart rate in that regard as well.
So we basically did that my whole marathon career and he
sort of come to a couple of sessions a week like every now
and then, but that was generally most of the time how we
communicated through everything. You said you ran my C base.
It was running by yourself. During these training was a out
of choice or because of lack of people capable of running with
you a. Lot of choice to be honest, OK,
obviously having court has to do some hard sessions and some
other people to do some hard sessions.
You know, every now and then was was I was grateful for.
But also at the same time, you don't want to put yourself into
a hole. If I train all the time for me
that I I felt like I'd I'd race too much, probably have that
little. Bit of a.
Switch go on every now and then in a session that would then put
you into a hole and I put myself into a hole a couple of times
training wise, just doing it myself, just pushing myself
hard. But sometimes you just need to.
It is what it is like that session was was how it was and
just accept it, move on to the next one.
There was times I was out the back in the rainforest and had
to walk home like it was a 2 hour walk home and I just, I
completely bumped and yeah, I was supposed to do a 30K run and
probably was able to run 20 of it and then had to walk back and
it's just, it happens, move on to the next time.
I I hate my wife. If she's listening to this,
knows that there's been several. Can you come pick me up?
What's happened? I don't feel good.
I can remember, like up in the forest.
Remember that day you were chucking up?
We'll probably, what, 30 minutes back?
Yeah, this guy just chucks up. Had a bit of a walk.
Are you sure you're right? Yep, keep keeps going.
The one thing, the other thing with Michael are people be
interested with like I, I, I talked about earlier about
discipline and structure. I'm just saying why I disliked
running with Mike a lot of the times.
But if we were running in the forest, so we'd go out, what
would be I would you'd go and do a 20K, you know, a 20 K 20
minute loop before I'd get there because I didn't want to run as
far as him in the forest. And then we'd go on an Adam
backtrack I had. I have an awful bladder and need
to go to the toilet, right? This guy won't stop.
Really won't stop. He won't stop.
So I had to time when where I knew the turn was coming, I'd
have the time like to get off the track, get get in my morning
toilet, stop. Yeah, before I'd missed the
train to get home. This guy is relentless.
And that's no but I. Thought you said when you said
he won't stop, I thought you meant he just pissed while he
ran. I thought you.
Meant that tough, not that tough, but he like there's
reasons why and and you know, certain athletes, I suppose that
of you know, not just in running but in other sports have been,
you know, have achieved what they've achieved and that's been
they don't you probably don't even realise it half the time.
I but like there was a relentless to how you trained
and that's why the performance has come.
You know, there was just discipline.
You did it on your own and just had that, you know, mental
strength to be go and do that. And not many people have that.
Do you have a bunk in a marathon?
Do you have a just? Did you ever put in?
Every marathon you. Completed every marathon.
OK, I. Eat a wall a couple of times.
Yeah, the first one there was a couple in Chicago.
I didn't really nail the Chicago.
I fell over down the last 200 mil, down the last little
straight of it. So the legs were going.
Yeah, there's definitely a couple that are.
And coupling, I think in Beppu and Japan I'd hit the wall as
well. Yeah, but you finished every
race, finished everyone. Yeah, you.
Couldn't bring yourself to? No, like, because most of the
time it happened close to the end, close to the end.
And it was just like, I can get through it and just you have to
run slower and it's, it's not ideal.
And yeah, you get frustrated with yourself.
And then it's like I need me two weeks off and then I'm I'll get
back into it and then try and change because I might have
changed someone thing in the leader, which is what I used to
always do, try and change one thing to see if it worked.
If it did, I'd keep it going and I'd change something else just
to try. And it's just try and find those
little minute things to to get to that next level, to try and
run a bit. Fast interesting to hear that
when he bonked he and he gave himself two weeks off because
when he said when he went well he's got three weeks off so.
That was the part he would if he didn't give it to himself.
I had to have two weeks off in somewhere ever I was raised and
then but week back with the mates.
On that, on that testing, you know, today on social media,
there's a lot of, you know, stuff out there around at the
moment. This is like saunas heat
training. We talk a lot about altitude
training and how that works. So you used to spend half a year
here in summer training for a marathon?
All of it, but then. Also, I'm going to compare and
then you'd go off sometimes to do altitude training and what
always was interesting to me is the time for you never really
changed. So what was your take on the
altitude training versus the heat training here in summer on
the Gold Coast? Why?
I used to use a tent in my room as well.
You told me that? Yeah.
I used the tent. That was secrets.
What's the tent? An altitude tent so I used to
bring the take the bed down put the altitude tent up and just
have this at night so spend 10 hours into it and just.
That's all you used to hear? Yeah, in something like that,
the. Thing Courtney's got in his
bathroom. Yeah, actually, can you walk in
the air freshener? But yeah, I used to use the the
altitude check probably most of the time.
I did go away a few times for for altitude to Falls Creek.
I did once or twice and I went to Boulder a couple once as
well. So like it's yeah, it's a it's a
hard one for most of the championships is really hot
weather. So I really probably excelled in
that way because of training on the Gold Coast.
Yeah, like I definitely came back fewer from those altitude
stints, that's for sure. Yeah, it's it's it's it's a hard
one. Like I don't like whether I
change one thing that worked for one and it didn't work in the
second. I'm not really sure.
I just, I just went out there, just tried to invest every time.
And that's the the bottom line for any sort of person that's
going to do a marathon, just do your best.
Yeah. And that's, that's all you can
ask for. Like, yeah, you don't have the
fast times or whatever like that.
But I just tried to do my best and that was it.
That was what I tried to do. In your career, what was your
best race in your marathon career?
They've all got different different different means and
different feels like I. Which which race do you reckon
you just absolute like in your mind when you think back and it
go, that was that was the race where everything came together,
the training, the weather, the conditions, the day, the
feeling, everything came together.
There's probably a couple, obviously Glasgow 2014 that that
came together. I I never was able to replicate
the last 5K that in a marathon. Do you?
Remember what you did in that last 5K.
It was like low 15 minutes sort of thing, like it never able to
do it like it was. It was one of my best finishes.
I was able to finish strong, but also London Olympics was pretty
good. Like I know it's like I ran
basically within 10 seconds of each half and then not finishing
16th. OK, so like that they're.
Amazing performance at an Olympic Games.
It's an Olympic Games and it was my first Olympics.
And obviously Courtney there as well.
Like there was a there was a, it was just what the Olympics sort
of felt like in the build up and had some mates on the course.
Yeah, cheering my name and I could hear them.
Yeah. It just, it was just that you've
got the goosebumps. You're like, oh, the Olympic
Games, I've got mates here. Like this is just.
Unbelievable. And then obviously we're we're
the last days, so there's no partying for us, but.
But you had the three weeks afterwards.
I did actually. Awful.
They were a tough three weeks. They were a tough three weeks.
That's, I mean, I got a little bit of goosebumps here just
think hearing you talk about London there, but well.
We were, because it was opening ceremony, we had that photo.
I know where I had like over my time because I was a multi sport
athlete. I had Mike obviously running.
I had Kenny around the Kenny, Wallace around the paddling and
Kai was with us and we got a photo of all of us all together,
all the Gold Coast crew, which were my training crew arguably.
So yeah. Pinch me moment, I'm always got
like holy hell how did I end up here as well?
Amazing. Yeah, amazing.
OK, you always just think about at school like Olympic Games and
just have mates that were really focused on, you know, doing best
in our sport. And then actually to get to the
Olympics, you just talk about it and you're just like, oh, how
good would that be? Like you're just always in the
distance sort of thing. And then to actually make it was
a just a. When was the goal?
When did you realise that you wanted to go to the Olympics?
Probably when I was about 1617, but you sort of along through
that school phase was all about just golf setting was just have
this main goal, but you've got to tick off all these little
ones to get to that main goal. Was the Olympics always a goal
for you as well? Yep.
Yeah, about the same age or a bit earlier for you?
No, I probably earlier, but I can recall probably mid high
school sitting in like a careers class and the teacher asked me
like what are you going to do? And I said, I'm going to be a
Tour de France cyclist. And they, like, looked at you
and laughed like, that's not a job.
Like, what are you thinking about?
And then obviously, I skewed off towards a triathlon career.
But yeah, I mean, I knew. I knew at that age that's not
all I wanted to do was sport. Yeah, 2 de France cyclist.
Yeah, I mean, probably it was maybe it was a maybe that could
have been the time like Armstrong had started to really
like that's who are under the thing, you know, like that's the
thing with kids and, you know, whether it's running or, you
know, triathlon or cycling or swimming or whatever it is you
get into the you get, I think you're driven at that level by
your hero or the people you want to emulate.
So depending on where kids go in sport, I think has so much to do
with what they're seeing at the time.
So like, you know, my son, he's seeing, he's seeing guys on
YouTube and everything flipping bikes.
So he wants to ride, you know? So he's at the pump jacks,
Disney. Park every week.
He wants to be a slopestyle rider on bikes.
I saw I was a swimmer as an early kid and a runner and that
type of thing. But I'd see the Armstrong, I'd
see the trifle, and that's where I wanted to go.
Well, I want to play soccer. Well, my, my first goal was
soccer. I was watching, I used to wake
up early watching Barcelona, the, the, the Socceroos play.
And I was like, oh, how could would that be?
You guys play soccer at the Olympics?
Oh, my mind blowing sort of thing.
But then once I got into high school, I was like, well, I want
to sort of verge off and do that sort of challenge myself sort of
thing. And then basically through this
PE teacher Brett Green was was just we started setting goals
school district and basically through the end of high school
was to make, you know, try and win a medal at nationals, but it
was always just about improving the time to then qualify for the
next stage. Yeah, interesting.
You never. Never.
Yeah, underestimate with with children in sport how much like
you can make it. You don't realise as an adult
how much you can make a difference, but just say like
one sentence of a kid with encouragement can make, you
know, send them off in a whole different trajectory.
But it's funny, it's funny we're having this conversation today
because on the weekend my daughter literally won the
player of the match for under Nines Billy Bulldogs team.
Yeah. And yeah, it's the it's the that
feeling that, well, that vision of the kid who's excited about
playing sport is something that's it's so precious.
And it's you just really do as a parent.
And, you know, part of your responsibility becomes to
nurture, to make sure that it it that that fire stays lit in them
as they go through this age. The would you want to get into
the shoe chat now is this. Yeah, let's go under the Gold
Coast. OK, let's let's make sure we we
cover the course probably yeah, that's like not the main reason
we want to we can chat for hours on everything around this, but
obviously your Commonwealth Games gold medal on the Gold
Coast was was iconic across the same course.
We want most of the listeners running Gold Coast who'll be
listening this What? How would you?
Approach Let's go Mike Shelley's CHEAT SHEET for the Gold Coast
Marathon course. So a little bit of a caveat
there was we were in reverse, so.
No, Courtney, we didn't do our research.
So we did we did the the top first and then back.
So in essence, it's probably a better thing doing it the S 1st
in a way. So then you can get over that
hill out the front of Australia Fair once you get over that one.
Yeah, it's it's a tough one. Yeah.
So if you're doing it at 30 K, it's a lot easier than at 40.
OK, that's for sure. But it's, I think you just got,
as I was sort of saying, enjoy the city as well like that you
don't usually get to see at that time of the day.
It's streets are cut off for cyclists and bikes and cars and
everything. So just enjoy sort of running
through iconic parts of the Gold Coast such as like running
through Kabul Ave and down towards like Miami sort of area.
Like you don't get to down Kabul Ave and that sort of thing
without anyone there. It's just runners.
It's a, it's a very enjoyable sort of time.
There's a little bit of a couple of little speed bumps down, down
hedges there. But but yeah, like that's,
that's probably the the little, little parts that those little
speed bumps you just got to try and like try not to get them get
to you in that regard, because sometimes they can be a bit
unstable and up and down surface in that real.
How would you break up the course?
So you're going to run you're you're running in a 2 1/2 weeks
time. Yep.
And you're sitting there at the start line.
Yes, you spend the 1st 32 K like a tourist.
But how do you break up the course on the Gold Coast?
Do you like have I want to get to that section at a certain
time or like I'll think about it to that section like do you do
you break it up like that or not so much?
Not so much I was because it was sort of different in sort of
environment. Is that COM games?
There's more about? There's a bit more of a racing
sort of tactic sort of style thing.
So once again, I didn't wear a watch.
So it was all about just seeing how I was feeling.
You know, if there's any moves, if you know, I felt like would
cover them, absolutely go with it.
If you felt like it was a bit too hot, just, you know, slowed
down a little bit. But finding with the guys that
we and ladies and gentlemen that'll be running the marathon
pick, try and find your pacemaker and sort of start with
and that's probably the the number one.
Find the pace that you're setting out to achieve and your
goal that you'd sort of train has sort of led you to try and
stick with them and just try and enjoy, have a chat to people
around you because that's going to be the, the, the guide as to
how hard you're actually progressing in, in that first
part of the race. So it's definitely about finding
that pace that you want to run the the pacemaker and then
trying to talk to the people in and around you to just to make
sure you're comfortable, relaxed for that.
Especially that first half. I mean, that's, you know, if
you're all together around that sort of time around that 30K
mark, you can all start then pushing and motivating
yourselves and each other to get to that finish line when you're
sort of starting to have a little bit of a tough time in
that regard. And if you can't have a
conversation, you're finding it too difficult to talk, maybe.
You'll probably slow down, maybe, yeah, maybe sort of drop
back a little bit to maybe the next group to especially in the
probably the most important part is that first 10K that it's not
too hard because that's when you will, you'll feel fantastic.
Trust me. Everyone feels fantastic and
that first it's up to 10K and then whether it's gone a little
bit hard like you will start feeling a little bit sooner.
The as we talk today, the cans Iron Man just happened over the
weekend just gone and re Rhianna Cran, friend of the podcast who
who loves sending us her Strava bike sessions.
She's completed the Iron Man so share that to re and to
everybody else from who listens to the pod is down the Iron Man.
But interestingly with the marathon section of the Iron Man
race, it's obviously a lap course.
It's a yeah. They do a few laps.
They do, I think they do like 5 laps or something to make up the
marathon distance. And I noticed on re socialist
she posted that she broke up the run into a lap for her mum, a
lap for her dad, a lap for her husband Will, a lap for their
son dash and then I think a lap for herself as well.
She broke it up into who she was running each lap of the course
for. So you talk about while you were
in more of a racing mindset, the ability to potentially break up
that course into sections for people.
Potentially. Well, Benita keeps talking about
that, right? In her weekly one, she talks
about her amateur athletes as she trains.
She has a lot about think about, you know, who you're doing it
for or who's driving you to do that as well.
I love the fact that I think it's a great reminder everyone,
including myself, don't be a slave to the watch.
You have to you, you know, the watch is a great tool, your GPS,
your pacing and everything else. But in the end, you've got to
listen to your body. You know, you marathons long
enough run that you can go through your ups and downs, you
can come through, you know, get better.
But if you are just a slave to like thinking that's my time,
that's my pace, it's on my GPS and then things start going
wrong, you've got to be able to dictate your own feelings in
your own pace as well. And that's what I mean Mikes got
gone to the extreme and not using a watch but.
The other thing probably though, is you could use your like just
put your heart rate because most of the watches will have a heart
rate and just run to your heart rate to make sure that you're
not pushing too hard like it may be feeling like that may give
you just a little bit of a guide as to, OK, I'm working a little
bit too hard for where I should be at this point in the race.
And just having that on your screen.
If you wanted to just monitor that as you know, as you effort,
just make sure you have your heart rate so you're not then
overcooking yourself. Now I know when you run a
marathon, there's a bit less traffic than most of our In the
Beginning podcast family will experience on race day aid
stations and turns. Can you talk a bit about how to
navigate them? Difficult, Very difficult.
The I definitely tried to get my sort of fluids and everything
earlier, but that was my sort of thing because it's a lot harder
to take on that fuel and that sort of thing.
The back end of a race. That was one thing I sort of
learnt throughout through running, especially take my
gels. I'd need to have water because I
used to have a thicker sort of gel.
How early? How early would you take your
first gel in? I'd probably probably take it at
sort of 9:50 or the 15 kilometre mark.
That's when I'd take my first one.
And one pre race. Yeah, I'd always take 11 pre
race, always take 11 pre just in case It's just like it.
You don't get it at that 10 or 15 K, you've still got something
in you. But also I'd use a sport, I'd
use water to take the gel because I'm not diluting
flavours because then that can sort of upset stomach and that
sort of thing as well. But I'd use a different like
sports drink at 20K and then back end would I'd use like flat
coke. Yeah, still with flake Coke,
it's good. It's something.
And what about as silly as this sound?
Because we all know how to turn, but running around a turn and
positioning yourself to run around a turn.
Now again, you didn't have as many people around you on a
marathon courses. Some of the the runners will
have come the Gold Coast Marathon this year, but did you
have a tactic to take turns? Because the turns, they're
hairpin turns, essentially. I generally probably go swing a
bit wider and then come in, but because if you go too short,
like you're then basically stopping.
So you you want to try and eliminate that sort of slow down
as much as possible to go around the corner.
So if you sort of swing wide, you can sort of take the pace a
little bit more, but you then swinging out wider probably on
the. So you're sort of keeping your
pacing, not breaking stride, which sometimes that can sort of
you feel a bit tight or you feel a bit flat coming out of a
corner because you're actually having to accelerate a little
bit more. So you're keeping that race that
little bit higher the whole time instead of going right back
down. So you're literally trying to
take a racing line basically, Yeah, you're trying to take even
though you're running. The other thing I would say for
for anybody running it on the way back up north last year, I
found that I I almost went over my ankle a couple times because
as you come past, back past Cavil, there's those islands in
the middle. Yes.
And twice I almost went over on the ankles because.
Because I was running with the 3:20 bus last year and there's
so many people around, you can't see them coming until you hit
them. And so I would say to people
that be mindful, particularly on the way back up north through
Cavil there of those islands, because once by that stage
you're what, 25K in or something, you're a little bit
fatigued and you just get a little bit lazy with the
placement of your feet. So.
The other thing with probably before we keep on going with
drink stations, grab one and keep going.
Don't stop. That's probably the other one
that sort of can get a little bit of a crush sort of situation
going on, but just try and grab a drink and go.
Move out as soon as you've got one if you can in that regard,
because otherwise there's too much crushing.
Not even just for yourself, but for everybody behind you.
This is a pet peeve of mine. The people that get it and go,
oh great, I've got my drink and then they stop.
This. I've always wondered,
particularly when you're running at your pace, the camber on the
road seems like a little thing, but do you try and avoid it?
Like do you try and find the flex or do you if you know if
you had to run the camber for the length of the marathon is
not not a big issue? I don't really think about it to
be honest. I usually just follow the blue
line quickest way home. That's the way I look at it.
It's like quickest way get on that blue line.
Obviously after, especially after the the paces, if there
was any into a race do pull out. It's like just down that blue
line. It's quickest way home.
So for those that don't know the Gold Coast Marathon, it might be
their first marathon. There is an actual line that
represents the defined marathon distance.
Yes, Yep. So it's yeah, just follow the
blue line and that'll get you home safe and sound.
That's cool. And apex the corners.
And ape and race line the corners.
Yep, you've talked about the the sightseeing and then that back
end section is where it starts to.
That's when the race begins for you.
Aside from everything that you've advised people to do
before that point, have you got any tricks of the trade for
those last 6 case? To go I'd probably more well, as
you go along mindset of just think, go to it like get a song
into your head that you like. Hopefully it's not a one that
you don't like. Just just think of a song.
Sometimes can break up that kilometre.
OK, like you can just start singing in your head.
Before you know it, there's a kilometre done.
Yeah, like, oh, hello. Just one, one kilometre less.
And then you think of another song and then just start because
sometimes if you have a like a really good song in your head,
it can just give you that little bit of a spur on to get to the
finish line or think of a training session that you've
done thinking, oh, I've just got one of those reps to go or those
sort of things that they're things that I did use,
especially because I used to train a lot in the Kumba Nature
Reserve. I think if I had like AK to go
or something like that, I'd be like, oh, just one more
straight, one more straight to go.
And that's what I just think. And just thought it's easy just
just to try and calm the stress that's sort of that's going on
ahead and the burning sensation that you're having.
Just keep going, keep going. You've only got 1 car to go and
you just break it down a lot. It's not that far to go.
You just just change your. What was the song?
What's the song you used to rattle through?
I, I can't remember to be honest.
I just whatever was on was on the radio probably last I heard.
Or something like that. Just bring it back into your
brain in those. Yeah, tough sections just bring
something on that's that takes you to a happy place is probably
the best way to describe. I want to go back and watch the
Commonwealth Games marathons now to see if we can see Mike's
mouthing because I'm back in black.
Yeah. Did you have anything like that
that you would use as a mental distraction when the the legs
started burning? I can't remember songs.
No, I mean I used to count. That was my thing.
I used to count steps said that before just 110 steps on one
leg, 10 steps on the next 10 steps.
I just think that way. But most of the time I was just
in the race like my, my mind process would be stuck on OK, if
I'm not counting or, you know, what do I need to do to get to
that person or what do I need to stay away from that person or
you know, that. And then cadence was another big
one. I'd always concentrate on like
more your form and you know, how keep my cadence up, keep my
cadence up so I'm not getting too bogged down.
That was a big one. And I think in marathoning, you
know, it's the same as probably the back end of marathons.
It's, it's a good one to think about because you know, as you
start to like lose your cadence, you start to get heavy, you
start to like, you know, your hips start, you start to fall.
But everyone's got a different cue and we've talked about them
a lot. Did you have any cue like
actual? Start over striding like you
start pushing too hard. Bring it back like it's what one
second did. You have any running queues like
that you'd actually think about when you're running.
I mean you are those at times you'd actually say when we're
running hills in the ring would be going up the hill and you'd
say run the same cadence like keep the same.
Yeah, well, I'd probably, if anything run up the hill, I'd
cut my stride. Cut your stride.
Yeah, Which is the opposite to what most people would do,
because you'd try and drive and even go harder.
So I'd cut it so I'm not getting as much lactic bill because my
legs aren't going. I probably not putting as much
pressure. I don't know.
For me it just worked well. It just, if I started putting
too much force through it, it just felt as I was getting
heavier and heavier, but I just cut my stride back that little
bit more. Yeah, those are the things I
remember, like a lot of bills. Yeah, that was probably the main
one that I used to just cut the stride back and get up there.
It felt it felt easier at the time, but who knows if it was
beneficial or not, but it just worked well for.
Me, no, I think it worked because I used to like follow
your lead and do the same thing and like I'll often work other
weeks when we're talking generally you'll hear me talk
about, you know, not so much advice, but give what worked for
me over time. And a lot of that is being
driven by just, I mean, nothing's new, right?
You just, I'm just taking information off different people
over my career. And a lot of the more pure
running stuff does come from just, you know, spending a lot
of time running behind Mike and watching and going like, why is
he so efficient? You know, that's what I always
would be like. How does he, how is he keeping
that pace still? I've been able to run, you know,
3 or 4K with him. Why am I now dropping off as I
was always in my head trying to work out the you know what, why,
why can't I keep my cadence like that?
So what am I doing differently at this time?
And that was, you know, whether it was, you know, in the end I
just wasn't as good a runner. That's what it come down to.
But I learnt a lot about how then do I improve by watching,
you know, one of our best, well at the time, our best marathoner
in the country, how he'd operate during those sessions.
He's always trying to figure things out.
He always needs to be a solution for Courtney's brain.
To be a piece, you gotta try and find the.
Solution. Yeah, yeah, interestingly, as
you guys were talking about, and again, Olympians, both of your
Commonwealth Games gold medallist.
My brain when I'm breaking up a run, like I did it on the
weekend, I knew I had 800 metre and I break it down into laps of
an athletic track. I can't help but break things up
into 400 metre blocks because I'm like, well that's one lap of
the athletic track, one lap of the athletic track or it's or on
a, if I'm going out for a longer one, it's oh cool, I've got a
park run left. Yeah, Park, Park Run's the right
man. Athletic track that does your
head in, always. Like I've tried, I've tried, but
like even, you know, oh sweetheart, OK, I've got 10
athletic tracks left to to go like 10 laps if I've got 4 KS
left to go. It's just how my brain worked.
I'd use light posts like in a in a marathon or something like
that, I'd use like light posts or like that would be that's.
A good one. Like if you could, because
generally you can see something as a little goal or.
Like get to the next one. Yeah, just get to the next one.
Just. Get to the next one.
That's the other one that you could look at.
That I'm thinking about the course specifically now.
That'll be a good one running both north and well, backup
north after the turn around. There'll be the along the
beachfront there and as you get past Australia Fair you'll be
able to map yourself against traffic lights as well.
Would be a good one too. I'm just thinking if you run a
wrong Jefferson there'll be probably the intersections.
Is the other one the cross streets?
I mean, probably not a bad one to measure gold.
I mean, Gold Coast is a great course as far as landmarks go,
cause and especially out and back, you can really pick out
your landmarks. We've got high rises bloody
everywhere and yeah. That's a good one.
High rise is always easy and yeah.
Food destinations, so we've hubs.
It's good for the cops. There we go.
Yeah, so. You're thinking where?
Where am I going after? This exactly right.
That's yellow. It's the reward for your effort.
That's that's the other thing. Your best like thing is reward
for effort in that regard. So OK, I'll, you know, I'll have
chocolate. I used to.
I remember after every long run that we did in summer, we'd go,
oh, I'm going to get a jumbo frozen Coke.
Wherever it was like either Macca's or Hungry Jack's, we'd
have a jumbo frozen Coke. It was just, it was a little
reward for the long hard effort that we did in a long in a
Narang forest because that was hot.
Yeah. Just like, yeah, I'm going.
To get like slurpy. Yeah, today's going to be a.
It's going to be Jumbo or no, it wasn't too.
It's just a large. But generally, if it was really
hot, yeah, it's a jumbo simplicity again.
All of the. Rewards.
Reward yourself for a hard effort.
Yeah, that's how that's how I rewarded my daughter on the
weekend after she wants sucker. I'm like, great, let's get a
Slurpee. But the same thing with
nutrition, like all the nutrition out there in the end
keep us just get sugar, Just get sugar.
And I want something cold. And the easiest and quickest way
to get that was through a drive through.
Yeah. Now I know you're desperate to
talk about shoes quickly before we move on though the course.
So we've, you've given us some, some nice insights there, some
some maybe some little tricks that people can implement on
race day. The finish, finish line
thoughts, finish line feels the last 100 metres, the, the, the
kick talk. Can you talk specifically
through those last? Because one thing I always say
to myself, whether it be racing halves or 4 or anything, it's
like I still, if I still feel like there's something there in
the legs in at 5 KS to go, I force myself to stop.
Because I know if I kick at 5 or I try and see what's left at 5,
by the time I've still got 3 to go I'll be cooked.
So when would you typically try and exhaust the tank?
Depending on how the day was going, that's that's sort of
that's the hard one that you don't really know until about 38
K for me, that's where those are like, well, things are going
okay, like don't like eat your muscles or mine used to get a
bit sore and at that point like I'll just see how we go.
But it was generally as basically the exhilaration of
the self satisfaction of finishing that was probably in
that home straight. You think, yes, I've got this.
Like you just give yourself that.
Come on, you're nearly there. You've got it.
Come on, you've done, you've worked.
You know what off this like enjoy it, you know, experience
the crowd because everyone will be going off.
Yeah. And just, you know, just use
that all that energy to finish strong.
Like that's the the big thing, especially that last 100.
Like when you when you are there, it's just like it's
that's when you get the the little chills and the the
satisfaction of achievement of finishing a marathon.
No matter what time it works, you've finished the marathon and
you deserve, you know, the special packet on back for
getting through that hard if it you know how to put yourself
through basically the hurt locker.
Yeah, no matter what pace you're running, you know you've
finished a marathon and you've done a great job.
Any carry on at the finish line ever from you?
Carry on, Ortiz. Yeah.
Celebration. Yeah, I did.
I was a. We won't go there.
Yeah. No, we've got to go there now.
Con games Glasgow. I did the kiss to the no.
Did you? Yeah, it did.
It was there. Yeah.
Cringy. No, pretty cringy.
You've just won the con games. Yeah, it was a bit cringy, but
yeah, that's a little bit of carry on, but.
That's standing. Yeah, it was a bit of yeah,
carry on when I got. Home.
Oh, it's Gold Coast. What'd?
You do on Gold Coast. It's something at Gold Coast,
which I'm not going to go through three.
Weeks, 3 weeks afterwards. When they premeditated, you
thought you were you thinking like a nut.
It was on the it's spare at the moment, it's spare at the
moment. Just the emotion.
Emotion of yeah, obviously having it was a the Gold Coast
was special with obviously mum, mum and dad, brother, family,
extended family. My grandma was there, which is
super special and schoolmates that I'm born and bred Gold
Coaster. So to have a lot of that there
was just made a little bit extra special.
So why didn't you ever run a Gold Coast marathon?
It's just. Timing.
Yeah, a little bit of time and just from sort of most of the
championships were sort of that July, August sort of time frame.
And then I'd run either one at the start of the year or yeah,
end of the year. And it just unfortunately never
really fitted into that sort of that gap that I sort of would
need in that regard from obviously I'm a bit old school
and just doing the two, but there's a lot of people that can
do more and that just put in like yourself into the world a
couple of times in a few marathons.
You just can't. Like for me at the time was just
needing that break recharge good to go again.
It just wasn't unfortunately in that time and frame,
unfortunately. I did a lot of 10K on the coast
and a few halves but it just wasn't.
Didn't get that full marathon unfortunately.
Mike, as someone who you've been retired professionally for six
years, you're still running your 10 KS in the morning.
You're a professional runner for a couple of decades, 20 years.
Yeah, but at most, yeah. What, what do you think of the
running boom at the moment? The fact the the fact that the
Gold Coast Marathon sells out now and the fact that there's
all these other races and that Sydney's a major and that the
suddenly this marathon, this mythical distance is now so
accessible. It's fantastic.
I, I love it. Like I remember feeling my mates
like they sort of stopped the sport, but now I'm starting to
get back into it and enjoy it. And I'm just, I, I love the that
sort of whole, you know, getting out, having a run.
And it's great to see so many people out there having a run.
As you obviously said, the boom of it.
And I think one, obviously COVID helped that with it was a lot of
lockdown and people were only able to travel, but they could
go out and go for a run, get that fresh air.
I think that's probably what started it all.
And they've, people have just latched onto it and absolutely
love it, which is fantastic. I can remember sort of 1010
years ago when I was still running competitively riding or
one of my mates was riding, would get the run, forest run.
You know, as you, as you're, as you're running through surface
like of, you know, of the local people have had a few too many
or the tourists have had a few too many and they're still out
partying. And, you know, we're, we're just
starting out for our Sunday morning long run.
But now you don't see that as much.
There's a lot more people out there being active, having a
walk or having a run at the same time that I was doing Yeah, back
then. So it's, it's great to see
obviously a change of lifestyle within Australia, which is
fantastic and even around the world that there's more people
out there experiencing it get being healthier and just doing
it for for themselves and just being active that they can
achieve something that they want to achieve.
Yeah, it's cool. It's awesome, It's awesome.
Go into shoes. Courtney, I'll get in there.
Now we talked about earlier on when we're talking about all
Mike's PBS and everything was all done pre Super Shoes.
But you're in the unique position I suppose that now you
get to see all everyday you're around shoes and you get to see
all the different brands, all the different types.
So you'll have a really good thing because there's a lot of
runners who'll be doing their first marathon this time this
year who have never been in a world where Alpha flies or you
know, whatever carbon plate shoe has never existed.
I mean they were all that that they will do their first
marathon in that shoe. How much do you think it makes?
It has made a difference #1 and #2 like thinking about shoes you
were talking earlier on with training and how it affects your
feet and what's your thoughts on it.
I think obviously there's always going to be innovation whenever
there's there's something, there's always going to be like
in terms of UCC, for example, in this is probably a different
sort of atmosphere. But like in computers, like they
went from like a, you know, Atari 2000 and now you got these
things that are just in your hand that have just got better
graphics. So there's always going to be
evolution of things and that sort of thing and and phones,
they're obviously going to be because I went through initial
stages very minimalist. There was a lot of minimalist
shoes around that late 2000s. I think that's.
Sort of where. Where it's sort of Nike Free and
that's sort of every. A lot of the companies were
going to that more of a lower profile sort of style shoe and a
lot of the racing shoes were very light.
Even 212 were still running thin shoes, Yeah.
Yeah, I remember the I was sort of like, I just knit one as much
cushion as possible because I know I have to run for so long.
I just want it to be as as cushioned or as reduce the
amount as possible. So I did a lot of my training
just in a general jogger. Like there's no like there's no
that super short carbon shoe which they they get a lot more
responsiveness out of the actual shoe, which is, you know, and
the cushion just gives it a bit more.
So it takes a little of that impact out of the your running.
What shoe would you have done most training in?
Was I? I was a Nike athlete for a few
years, so basically when I wasn't Nike athlete I still use
the Vimero. Vimero, yeah.
Have you have you run in the Super shoes much?
I was, I ran the 4% set con games, England on the Gold
Coast. That was 2018.
Yeah. So I never ran a cold marathon
in them. Yeah.
So I'm not sure how much because that was basically 12 months
later I retired. Like so I ran 1/2 in them and
like they do give you a nice little little kick on and I have
run in in them since I ran Gold Coast half a few years ago, you
know, Under Armour philosophy elite.
And it was, it was just, you just know that you get that
such, you know, greater response out of the actual each straw
that you get. So it's a they have improved and
you know, that's why I think a lot of people are probably
enjoying that running a little bit more like in run a PB and
that sort of thing that shoes, you know, a bit more helpful in
that regard. I've never, I've just actually
never thought about the idea of because I've well, you know,
there's trail kings and there's some people that do poke fun at
the idea of the Super shoes in the wild and the unnecessariness
of them at a certain pace. But I guess fundamentally, if it
makes running more fun, why not? Absolutely.
Just regardless of how fast or slow you're going if if you if
the Super shoe makes running more fun for you then why not?
Still gonna be good. It doesn't matter which pace
you're going, it's still gonna provide the same benefit.
It might be different, you know, levels of benefit, but it's
going to still have benefit A. Lot of them help with recovery
and that sort of thing as well, like the different obviously
evolutions of phones. So it just reduces the impact,
which then you can train that little bit harder, which is, you
know, that's what at the end of the day that's what you want to
do, because then you can run that little bit faster, a little
bit further or in that regard. You can choose to give us brands
or not, but I want at least a type of shoe. 3 pairs of shoes
in your rotation. What are you looking at now?
And today's not 2025? What are the three pairs types?
That I'm that I'm running in or because I'm only running one at
the moment. What?
Are you what are you running in? It's the Under Armour Infinite
elite, what was called OK, just a general everyday joga did a
session in it. Yes, longer running it yesterday
it was fine. It was great, like just worked
everything that I needed. And I think that's what because
everyone has different foot requirements.
Some people need a support issue, some people don't.
Some people use orthotics with issues, some people don't like
it's, it's the biggest advice at working.
That sort of thing is what works for you.
Everyone's going to need something slightly different.
Some people are going to enjoy something that someone doesn't.
So it's the same time you got to find what works for you.
And I just probably like something that's a little bit
lighter and responsive. Some people like something more
cushion. So it's, it's that trade off
that everyone's going to get something cushion.
But and then if you have something that's too soft, some
people don't like it can create instability, It can it can wear
a bit quicker. If you have something that's too
firm, it's a bit it's a bit hard and you're just not enjoying
running. So it's fine.
And what's going to work for you?
Let. Me pivot Courtney's question a
little bit. Then let's say Michael Shelley
decides to return to competitive running tomorrow and you need to
go and add two more shoes to help that return, whether it's a
race shoe and a on a slightly faster shoe or a slight recovery
type shoe. What are you adding to to go
with this infinite? This Under Armour Infinite
everyday jogger? I'd probably I'd I'd have to
look at some, I'd have to try a few of the the carbon plate
shoes obviously so. You'd find that something if
they find. Something to to racing, whether
it be the Nike vapour fly or alpha fly, like something might
be too, like the alpha fly might be too responsive, it's might
put too much pressure on joints, that sort of thing.
Or the, you know, something into that mid tier, like that's close
to a race day shoe. But like that, like a that's
like lightweight tempo without a plate.
Something without like that. But always going to have room
for the jogger. I love the jogger.
I just, as I said, I did a lot of my training in it just
because it just helped reduce injuries.
So and they will generally last a little bit longer as well in
terms of, you know, I love to look into the cost of living
that. Sort of deal.
You want to get the best out of the and it's going to last the
longest possible duration. There you go.
I'd probably I'd have to throw something in there that's super
soft probably as well, just to just to give that an easy run,
whether it be yeah, like a just a strength foam or if it's just
but I don't like something that's going to be too bulky.
That's the other thing. I don't know, just for me, it's
for you. It's not.
Yeah, it just doesn't. I don't know it just.
Doesn't work for me in that regard if it's too soft, you
know, just like some responsible.
I don't know if it's just where I've been, where I run as I
don't have as much like bounce in my in my stride like that.
Might not be, you know, that might be the reason, but they
definitely have to try a few and that's for sure.
But it's because. But to your point, it is.
This comes, we talk about it. This is kind of the end point
for every shoot conversation I feel like we have on this
podcast, but it is about you and the way you run and your foot
because Courtney allowed me to try a pair of the the Salomon.
I was I was showing my oh, the the dimple.
Oh no, the. Dimple, I was showing them the
Chinese. Oh yeah, no that.
But they're great, yeah. No, I'm the thinking by
comparison, the Salomon, the the golf ball dimple ones we talked
about. Oh, the new new Aeraglides with
the big. And the quite.
Chunky like right, and I ran in them super chunky, but you I
didn't really feel it didn't make me feel anything by
comparison. There's the Genesis, the the
ones that I ran Kanani in amazing, right?
A lot less, which is an older style shoe, which is.
Like more just a tradition. It would have been like a just
trying to think in, you know, like a Pegasus.
It's probably like a Pegasus trail shoe.
Yeah, very, very simple. But it as well each brand has
something slightly. Different within each offering.
So it's just finding what's going to work in that regard.
Like some are going to be super soft, some are going to be
responsive that you need and that's you know, that's for me.
I just like feeling that little bit poppy ish every now.
And so no, I can't really just go for my next session.
That's the big thing for me. It's a great call though on the
I. Suppose the new plated shoes or
you have your super shoes in your racing shoes is to go and
try them, go in store and try them because just picking them,
you know, looking or listening to others or picking them, it
just could be completely wrong for you.
Yeah. And then model to model too,
right? Like even if you ran in, you
talked about the Four percenters back then, like that shoe could
be a completely different feel in today's time and another
brand, you know, the underarm or whatever it is may suit you
better. So you gotta continually be
trying, continually be trying. I mean, are you gonna be there
on race? Day do you, do you go down and
get amongst it? I'll be floating around.
Yeah, I've got. I've got.
A couple of friends that are running, so I'll be popping down
there to wish them all the best. You ever get out and jump out
and do a bit of pace work? I haven't yet, no.
You ran. Last year, though, you ran the
half. Was that last year or the year
before? The year before, year before
that was gonna help. With some of the yeah, I ran
I've actually helped lose weight when a couple of years ago
through the half I she did a full and I did the I did 30 Ki
got to the hill and I was like, yeah, see you later.
What's it going to say to get Mockridge?
To the start of the Gold Coast Marathon, the full marathon.
I'm not sure if I'm actually gonna run another marathon, to
be honest. Really.
I'm Yeah, I'm not sure if I. Wanna run?
I know I did a little bit further than I have done for a
long time yesterday, but I don't know if I'm actually gonna run.
That's not there anymore. Yeah, I don't know, like.
I enjoy that 30. K sort of area, but that little
bit furthest just yeah, I get it, I get it.
It's it's it's. Different motivations, right, of
why you're, like, going back to work.
Yeah, it would be 100 percent, 100%.
Yeah. You never say never but like.
Because I I. Actually would said to a few
people when I was younger, like marathons, if you do that, you
know, ended up starting running 14.
Yeah, all I'm saying. To Events Management Queensland
that run the. Gold Coast Marathon is money
talks. That's what I'm just saying.
We could, hey, put enough zeros after it.
We might get Michael Shelley on the start line alongside
Courtney Atkinson next year. Look well, Michael, honestly
thrill for us to to hear your expert opinion on the course
itself. But but to get you joining us
here on the on the pot is is amazing because Courtney's told
a lot of your stories on your behalf to get you in there to
actually verify them has been amazing.
That's true. All of it's true.
So thank you and. And yeah, welcome anytime the
door is open to you. No worries.
Thanks very much for having me, guys.
Thanks, Mark.