Welcome to Vancouver True Crime. My name is Mark.
I am the host of the show and a very special guest narcissist
Survivor he did a show on love-bombing and it's been a
little while since we did a show.
But here, we're back together again.
Hey, Mark, thanks for having me back, I'm good, I'm good.
I'm going to be talking about, maybe the atom each situation.
Yeah, just how that ties into narcissism.
And a lot of these cases like we talked about it, someone that
infant. Rates of community and cause
they want the respectability. They want to be seen as a
helper. A good guy, you know, the
mile-long resume, the all the wonderful things they do, but
then behind closed doors, they turn out to be in the future,
you know, there's so many cases that across different
organizations, right? And it's unfortunate because
most organizations should have something in place, you know.
Specially, we're talking about this, Adam a so for listeners of
I've been working on On a podcast for survivors, who are
going through recovery? Who experience of use out of
hands of a person. That's a personal trainer will
call Madam H4. Now, you go to my Instagram
page, you'll see some posts I made about them.
From what I know now is that New Westminster police have charged
them with 10 counts of sexual assault.
His abuse seems have been ongoing since the early 2010 and
to present day. Wow.
Yeah, it's a lot of victims. I talked to one lady, she
believes that there is a possibility that the victims
could be in the hundreds also to on the male side, a guy actually
sent me a message yesterday and this is very important platforms
about, you know, stopping Abused women, men and children.
He made a made a point. He says, a lot of men were
victimized from because they were just as vulnerable and then
he would Power Trip. They make one mistake and then
he throw them out. But if they were a woman old to
give them I want you to give them a chance as long as they
hit something sexual favor from his as what they allege.
Yeah. So, you know, it's shocking and
it's terrible, how someone in a position of trust can abused up
for about like the time I'm interviewing more people in
anyone listening knows about the situation.
Please contact me. I want to hear your testimony in
and understand the experiences you've been through.
I want to say that recovery is a very important Anything and dear
to my heart. I went through the Vancouver day
talks clinic and low 2000 or early 2000s.
When I used to binge drink do stupid things and it was
affected my life and back to my relationships and it helped me
very much. And so, when you're going
through recovery, when you make that choice to take those steps
to clean up the sobriety, you need a fighting chance.
So at that time when someone abusing you can could be very
dangerous and they could Prevent you from wanting to get help,
which condemns you into a dangerous situation, which its
allege that this has happened. And absolutely.
Yeah, wow. It was a personal trainer is all
about health, he ingratiated himself, he develops tries to
develop a personal relationship. There's a power Dynamic due to
age due to his, maybe his financial background.
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And then the person who's
getting help in rebuilding their lives right there.
A ground, zero rebuilding everything.
I mean, the first thing that jumps out at me honestly with
this story is a couple things jump out, but who thinks it's a
good idea to put male figures in charge of vulnerable.
Female population. Yeah, you know, start with that,
who thought that was a good idea?
You know. No, no offense to males
anywhere, but when you're in recovery, when you are in such a
vulnerable Horrible place. These guys are predators
narcissus, Psychopaths, sociopaths they are predators.
They prey on vulnerable people. And you, if you are a shark,
you're going to go where, where there's blood in the water.
Yeah. I think, you know, the place is
to Target. You know.
The people that are going to be the most easy to Target and here
you are, you're in charge of a whole.
We have a continuous. Cool.
Yeah owner all people that you can victimized.
So for my understanding, there's okay, there's two organizations
that are connected to each other up.
Like there's New Westminister house has been around for 40
years and again I don't want to Discount the good work.
Saving they have done good work and then there's the last door.
I believe that Adam was more Affiliated.
The last or the newest miss our house is Women only and then the
last door is as males, right? But they have cross.
Yeah, they do integrated Community stuff, meetings.
That sort of thing. He was a personal trainer, so he
was known old, he's a personal trainer.
He works with the last or he was very parently, very aggressive
on social media. He got your number or your
social media that he'd send you lots of tax.
And so again, you know, here at, You Know, You're vulnerable
woman this dies And interesting. You everyone saying he's a safe
person. He has ties to the the higher up
people that are in charge, he brings in lots of money and
donations. So we had a lot of clout in that
Community for my what my understanding is.
And then he would find a way to get a loan with a girl or
providing them apartments, right?
That's where the Power Trip came in.
And for my understanding telling me sort of the story of what
happened and I mean that's that's a common tactic for For
these deadly predators to. You literally ingratiate
yourself into these places are organizations or whatever make
yourself appear trustworthy, you know you're very helpful, all of
those things and for me those things set off alarm Bells.
But for most people who have not experienced narcissist or
narcissism are or any of the above these other types of
sociopaths and predators. You know, you're thinking oh
wow, this is great, he's a great guy, he's doing all the things,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and and for your average person, you
know, these are all great things when you list them out like that
they're graded. Wonderful.
Yeah. But again, correlate that to the
stories that you hear about other types of similar
situations and predators, whether that be in religious
areas or it's bringing the yoga community.
Unity to - yeah, Bikram Yoga guy not to shit.
Talk anybody or you know to be down on all men or anything like
that, but I always say, you know, women when they're in
vulnerable positions should be seeking out other women.
Yes. So instead of you get into that
danger zone, following sort of these gurus.
You have this guy's giving a little big Guru Vibes being at,
you know, giving back room Vibes.
He's a personal trainer and that and I mean, just have women's
support women. I told there any sort of stand
on their own again and, and be able to differentiate, you know,
between someone who wants to prey on you and somebody, it's
important to work on yourself. You got almost being very
selfish in your self development and it's not the time to have a
relationship or pursue a relationship.
And ship because at all. Yeah you know that was that was
very stressed for me when I when I went through it actually went
through twice in the organization.
I was relationships are really frowned upon because I only have
time to pursue a relationship. This is for you.
It's to get new life skills. Get new abilities to survive the
world, because drugs, Temptation alcohol, stressors, all those
things don't go away in life, right?
We just have to learn better ways of coping mechanisms and
how to navigate Our complex very stressful world.
We live in. Yeah, terrible.
That the damage that he could have done and have done
potentially. We're looking at a large pool of
victims, and I asked to some of these women because they were so
vulnerable. Do you believe that they might
have relapsed? Because of the experiences and
things they said, yes, many people said yes.
And some of them because of that relapse, have died because how
dangerous I was thinking that. Yeah, it's It's murder really?
Yes, look at it that way. You know what I mean, you're
going to take somebody and you're going to crush some you
know it correlates to any type of domestic violence, you're
going to take somebody and break them down and Crush their Spirit
to an extent that death or relapse, or even taking your own
life becomes a viable options. As I said, the stories and
again, we're going, I'm going to make a podcast with the victim.
We're going to get more deeper in this.
I thought it'd be great. To talk about with you because
these types of abuse crossover and I even asked pulled asking
people's opinions who had interactions.
Do you believe he's on the nurses scale and they said oh
absolutely fucking checks all the boxes back in the day.
You know, when I used to hear the word narcissus I would say a
tribute that to a person that was arrogant kind of pompous and
that's not necessarily the case. So maybe it was talk of the
different types of viruses, the different spectrums of them and
some people say, well, you know, Nobody's a little bit
narcissistic and whatnot. And I mean again narcissism
sound of spectrum. So you can have someone that is
high in narcissistic traits. Let's say, and I mean, everybody
thinks of Kim Kardashian was use that as an example.
So you can have somebody that's, you know, highly narcissistic,
they're really into themselves Etc.
They don't have the full-blown narcissistic personality
disorder, right? I like to say that somebody who
is highly narcissistic can change with time, and usually
with something when something traumatic happens to them in
life, you know, like some type of a near-death experience,
let's just say and they can sort of have some type of epiphany
but that's that's very rare. It doesn't always happen.
So I tend not to mention that because it can give people false
hope. Hope right.
You know so you know when you're and we're going to be talking
about trauma bonds later, but when you developed a trauma bond
with somebody, it's very hard to accept that they are abusive.
They are a narcissist. They're not good for you.
You just want this person to change and love to do and be the
person that they were when they were love-bombing you in the
very beginning but this is the same story whether you're just I
don't want to say just but whether you're with an Our or
narcissist, right? It's very hard for even.
Just a run-of-the-mill abusive partner to change.
Yes. It's exponentially harder for
somebody that's high in narcissistic traits to change.
It's like a double, give a double whammy.
Now it generally speaking when I witnessed, or even myself and
not nesting in romantic relationship, with Justin
relationships, even work, relationship of all.
Boss. That's an ogre you do adapt to
their level of abuse, even myself, right?
You know. Like, for example, I had a boss
in this Vicki early, early days, when I stood Us in the stock
market industry, this guy was not to probably doing coke and
booze all night. He would fly off the handle over
the littlest thing. Throw those empty 8, m cooler,
water bottles. Getting someone asks you a
question. You just go not to grab it.
Smash game for wall. This, your inferior nature.
Over 80 spray to be asking the wrong question might and I
couldn't imagine what it would be like to be in relation to the
guy like that because he was married but even though you were
very faithful but I couldn't imagine like cuz it's almost
like it is very effective tool to use very subtle and over
terrorism on people, right? Looking say that to me.
Oh my God. I'm gonna freak out and start
smashing stuff and it's all your fault.
Could you set me off? So therefore, you don't want to
set them off, right? So you start changing your
behavior night? These circumstances tiptoeing
talk in a soft. What is it about?
The are ready to apologize immediately being in a personal
issue with someone like that especially behind closed doors
how quickly it could lead to abuse hard to explain it to
people outside of it. And then people course we're not
in the situation, have a very black and white view saying, oh,
we should just leave them. Why don't you just leave?
Yeah. Okay, so let's break down this,
the conditioning that you get Verbal abuse in almost like
that. What's that?
Famous Russian experiment, the dogs, pow below the powder.
Yeah, you get condition. And then why is it hard for
someone to First realize and then get out king that we talked
about on here? I always recommend that if
people are curious about something or whatever, just get
on Google, the the story of Pavlov's dogs is fascinating and
reading about, that is really, really relates to what we're
talking about. So, I mean, basically, what
happened Ins when you're with somebody like that.
And if you are walking on eggshells, there's a there's a
hundred percent chance that you are being abused in some way.
Whether that's probably mentally emotionally abuse does not mean
that somebody is beating the shit out of you every day,
right? Way more subtle than that and it
starts off again on a spectrum abuse starts.
Very subtly, it starts with the love-bombing phase and it
escalates over time. We'll eventually usually get
physical unless you leave sooner.
As you know, doing what you do. It's sometimes escalates to the
point of murder. Yes, the way we develop a trauma
Bond. You want to touch on that for
sure. So, you start off obviously, you
don't start off and the guy takes you out on a first date
and punches you in the face. And you're like, oh yeah.
Wait, you know, I think I'll go out on date number two, out.
Sure, that it always starts with a love-bombing.
So when somebody is really Charming, they're really going
to town with you. At the beginning, they love you
really quickly or they want to move in with you.
These are kind of extreme examples but they do happen
frequently given showering, you with gifts, attention texting,
you all the time, calling all that stuff.
Oh, so you think. Wow, this person is great.
I love being treated this way. This has never happened before.
He must really be into me and blah blah, blah.
So okay. Great love-bombing is designed
to have you fall in love quick and it's also meant to have you
blow by the red flags that you are noticing her happening, so
fast that your bed that they just end up in there in the
rearview mirror. Yeah, I spent training so to
speak. Hundred percent things that
start to shift and change. And usually, these guys do
something called intermittent reinforcement, which is pretty
self-explanatory. But on, and off, hot and cold,
polar, any if you're using any of those things to describe your
relationship, that's that's what's going on that leads into
the cycle of abuse, which is I'll break that down in two
ways. It's cycle of abuse that usually
use that for run-of-the-mill abusers, right?
Not not narcissist necessarily but it applies.
So it starts with love-bombing or the honeymoon phase is also
called, then it goes into. You always know when it's the
walking on eggshells start, right?
And that's called tension building because it is you use
sort of sense a bit of a shift and you don't want to piss this
person. You know what I mean?
So you are literally walking on eggshells.
You're just waiting waiting for the things to happen.
And the thing does happen, then they call that stage, the
explosion stage like you described with your boss.
Yeah, freak out, freak out right stuff, it might get physical at
that point, punching holes in the drywall and then it goes
into and picture. This is a big surprise All
right, so and then it goes into the ghosting phase or the silent
things just, you know, like the it's like the calm after the
storm type of thing which it is. And then it starts back up at
the top of the wheel, back up at the love-bombing stage.
So after you've gone through this intense, emotional
situation, with this person here in terrible, your wailing, it is
Like a rollercoaster ride and you desperately want to get back
to the feeling good times and they do it.
This is when the person is remorseful, I'm so sorry.
Oh my God, here's some flowers. I love you so much never happen
again. And before, you know it, you've
done that whole circle again and this can repeat and repeat and
repeat for years and years and years.
And that's how people get stuck. Yeah.
In these cycles of abuse. You really becoming Changed by
the the circumstance. Us.
And you do, you will have your first time become Changed by it.
And when you get accustomed to living in that cycle about way,
with the walking on eggshells and I used to describe it as,
like, sort of throwing all my love's like, Oreo.
My love is like a black hole and when you're in that tension,
building phase you are doing absolutely everything to appease
this person, whether that be cooking the dinners that they
like doing. You know what I mean?
Mean doing sexual things that you don't feel comfortable with.
That's very common, just to appease, this person, you do
become your living in the fear, a lot of the time, most of the
time walking on eggshells is, is the number one indirect
indicator. Like I said, that you are in
some type of ongoing abusive situation.
But because of the way, the cycle works and that you Circle
back to the So the love-bombing phase every time you think, oh
my God, maybe this time it'll stick maybe this time.
They mean that maybe they won't do it again.
Maybe they really are story and often, you know, that's the
point where counseling will be offered.
Oh, we'll go to counseling. Well, go to counseling, I'll go
to counseling and a lot of times that's just offered so that you
will stay in the relationship. The, the pendulum of Vomit,
izing belittling and then affection.
Oh, I didn't mean that I had a bad day.
Oh, you're so crazy. If you won't did this, the
everything would be not to be like the the back and forth,
right? So, one of the things that quite
common from being in a nurse's they, or an abusive type of
relationship is post-traumatic stress.
Yes, baby. Talk about what is
post-traumatic stress? Well, what I will say, maybe
I'll just preface that with earlier I was Going to break
down the cycle of abuse into two versions.
The one who got abusers, use and the one that specifically sort
of narcissus related and that's the idealized devalue and
discard right and probably hit home for a lot of people and
that that relates to what we're going to talk about next.
Because when you're constantly being devalued and you did touch
on that too, you know, you're so stupid, you're fat.
Nobody Buddy will want you. Nobody will love the way that I
do. And that's more of a
psychological tool, right? It's emotional abuse.
You know, you are really tanking that person's self-esteem.
Yeah, so that they won't have the strength to leave you and I
would encourage people to look up and usually, it's not
recognized and The DSM, which is the, you know, the manual of the
diagnostic and statistical Manual of disorders where you
find narcissism and all these things.
So they have not yet included complex PTSD.
There's a large contingent of people that are trying to get
that included because it's not PTSD is usually something that
is incident specific. So in other words, it's
something that, you know, like a car accident claim, Crush this
one traumatic incident that you've been through war that
causes just this deep trauma. But when it's constant and
consistent over time, all these small injuries, it's called
complex PTSD. And that's usually what drivers
experience and you are traumatized.
Yeah, it's drama. Its deep trauma.
Some, some psychologists and psychiatrists are starting to
use that despite Despite its not being included yet, but, but it
is absolutely valid. And if you think you might be
experiencing, this level of trauma.
Absolutely, Google that. And, and look up the symptoms.
This is something that many many survivors of domestic violence
and narcissistic abuse experience the reek of the
narcissistic abuse leads to self-doubt erosion of
self-esteem. But then, at the same time, they
become attached to Ooh, the person that's causing.
So this is the phenomena that that is very destructive and
this is why it's cycle. That's very difficult to break
out of and then if you overlap that with finances, like you're
living with the person you share Fleet maybe a children with
them. Maybe there's an overlining
substance, abuse problem, alcohol pills or drugs.
Then it gets even more like you will sink into the quicksand so
to speak even more because it's not just dealing with the
ongoing abuse but now Deal with all the other problems that that
have occurred for being a relationship with this person.
Exactly. And and they will isolate you
from your friends and family, they will financially abused.
You Financial abuse is a thing, it can be anything from them,
taking out Credit, in your name, using your car, and your
insurance, moving into your place anywhere, all the way up
to preventing you from working or forcing you to work, you
know, it's Financial abuse is very common in these types of
situations, so that makes it doubly hard to leave.
Especially in Vancouver. I mean yes when a one-bedroom
apartment costs, you know, two grand plus right?
It isn't it is insane and the housing crisis is not helping
people in situations where they are experiencing violence.
There's just no, there's no social safety net.
There's no there's no housing for people and honestly if your
choice is staying at home or going To a shelter somewhere.
I mean, come on. What are you going to?
Pick course, you know, it and that's a scary thing, right?
Going to Emergency Shelters, have no idea what you're getting
yourself and you're doing. You're stepping out in the abyss
and the unknown, and as bad as it sounds, at least, you know
what you're what you're getting into.
If you continue going home, okay, maybe it'll be cool today.
You know, I mean, you've usually worked out some way of
coexisting in that abusive relationship.
So to cut that off, completely and going Ooh, the absolutely
new environments even unknown, which may be in some cases, you
should because it's getting to that point where violence is
escalating and and it might actually save your life, right?
So, yeah, every time. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. You know, a lot of the shelters
are quite good. I do have to say that but the
spaces are very limited and there's just, there's just not a
lot of options and especially if you have You know, kids and you
have supposed to leave your pets, taking people having pets
now, or having a hell of a time. Getting place is just for having
a dog or a cat is getting hard. Yeah, exactly.
Speaking of pets there was, I think it was last year there was
it was it made it to the news, the news cycle and a woman had
had her two small dogs. Murdered, you remember that?
Yeah, I kind of remember that. I said to myself that is
Violence and terrorism to. Well, they will kill your packs.
They will threaten to kill your pets.
So leaving your pets and leaving yourself and leaving your pets
with the abuser. It's good.
I get a lot of beams from, you know, people and bad situations.
I'm a very distressing because it's like, you want to build a
help them to the, I try my best to send people resources on.
Stuff but as you know, the resources are pretty, you know,
are used up. Yeah and I was talking to a
woman recently who's actually in a relationship with a very in a
very bad situation and just like what you were talking about,
they're actually looking to get divorced and, and there in that
separation stays but because she has literally nowhere to go for.
So living under the same roof with her.
Separated were a, could be potentially dangerous.
When you're standing up for the person saying, hey, I'm leaving,
but we have nowhere to go. So, I'm here for a few months,
so, you're on the ultimate shells.
Now, and it could be quite critical.
And I hear that, and to that, I say, like, even the whore,
anybody listening, even before you get to that point of having
that conversation, do some Escape planning, you know, get
your paperwork and jewelry your important stuff, photographs out
of the house, if you do have friends or family, even if
you've been separated, Operated over miles or, you know,
continents, even reach out to people.
People are willing to help if you are in trouble for the most
part. See if you can sort yourself
somewhere to stay like the day that you leave.
If you have to pack your bag and just leave, do you have
somewhere to go is all your stuff.
You have a go bag, you know, like that, like, do anything
that you possibly can so that you can get out safely.
Yes, and and that's called a skate planning.
And sometimes that takes months, or, or even longer just putting
all your ducks in a row, need to call home and say, hey, I need
you to buy me a bus ticket, do do that sometimes you got to do
what you got to do to survive and yeah, and that's what it
comes down to. So to just to recap the trauma
bonding, right? Right, so, this is what I wrote
for are some notes for those into research, for the show.
So, this is what the definition of trauma bond that I, that I so
says, trauma bonding as a psychological phenomenon, that
occurs, when the victim becomes emotionally attached to the
abuser as a result of repeated cycles of abuse and affection.
This bond is created, as a result of the users manipulative
tactics such as interventive reinforcement, which you
mentioned right? Yeah gasps.
Yeah and other forms of Emotional manipulation and of
trauma, bonding relationship the victim becomes dependent on the
abuser for emotional support. Validation, despite the abuse,
they endure, the victim May begin to rationalize the abuser
behavior and believe that they're the only person that who
can meet their needs. This creates a cycle of abuse
and affection that you difficult for victims of break.
As we become emotionally attached to their abuser.
ER, So that's pretty good and saying that when you think about
on paper eraser, this person that's doing this, all this to
you, you become more attached them as a more of using.
This is why its first important to recognize that usin that is
happening to you, you have to come to grips to it because you
don't want to think your abuse, who wants to think of themselves
as a victim. You know, even myself.
Like I was like, is this abuse? I know.
It didn't feel good. I know I felt like shit.
I was walking on eggshells. See, you know, but I thought to
myself god, well, it's not like he, you know, beats me up every
day, and many people think this still to this day.
That I mean, domestic violence the way.
It sounds sure. You know, he gave me that idea
that it's always violent, but a lot of people are calling it
intimate, partner violence now. And that sort of things to cover
a lot more. It's Literally, all the stuff
that we talked about today. Emotional abuse, you know,
sexual abuse reproductive portion.
There's, there's a thing going on now called stealthing.
Were you just take off the condom?
Oh yeah, really like Jesus Christ, you know.
It's abuse is so much more than just as akal violence.
So if you, you know, anybody listening, if you are constantly
being put down, if you're walking on eggshells, if someone
screaming in your face, if they, if they block your exit like
you, they don't let you leave same trap you in a room like all
of these things. Are we remember that movie?
I kind of remember movie, The Hedge, a low She's married to
that guy and then she learns how to fight chance of beating the
crap out of them. Who's like this?
Really horrible abuser, not Begley.
Yeah. So but God is like that is what
people think when they think of like a domestic violence, like a
monster, where's my dinner? And then also in the belt comes
out, you know, course, there are idiots like that and then they
should. Hopefully, they will be in jail
as quickly as possible because they really step over the line.
But most people where someone, Does that you owe call 911?
You know, it's almost like an instant cause and effect
reaction but no one's going to call the cops if someone's just
gas lighting or and and gaslighting you over years and
years. And now he find yourself in
depression and anxiety of underlying health issues.
You wonder why? Hey, why am I feeling like this?
I go south with my strength. I killed.
My self worth is down the analogy right there sharks.
Like the guy of the bounties of shark, he's just going to take a
big bite out of you and then There's like the nibblers a
little piranhas that just nibbled at their just of
effective and it will eat away at you.
Oh my god. Narcissistic abuse is almost
like death wife. About that stocks.
Yeah because the chip away at you a little bit all the time
byte by byte so absolutely does and gaslighting we didn't touch
on that gas. Lighting is definitely part of
that cycle as well and it's a very very effective tool
psychological abuse. Yes will be this breakdown
gaslighting quickly. Then we'll do a show just on
guessing. It's such a rich and complex
topic and so yeah. And it comes from that Alfred
Hitchcock movie. Yes, I'd like in the 60s.
I think it was gas, light, and drove his wife crazy.
Yes, gaslighting. And there are some I have heard
of this story more than enough times where well literally move
things you know like you know your wife comes home with her
purse on the side and then he'll take a little bit somewhere else
and literally out. Solutely drive her crazy and
that that's the extreme kind of guy spider car keys, while
they're in her pocket. She's going crazy looking for
him yet but there's also a lawyer.
They are saying, you know? Yeah, look at her, she she
really is crazy. And he has done that, and that
is its more common than you would even think.
Oh, I've heard that's all kinds of sick.
They so here, this for the listeners, never maybe, never
heard of gosling before. So here's a description of
gasoline. So gaslighting, this is a form
of emotional abuse in which the narcissistic partner
manipulates, the other person's perception of reality, causing
them to doubt their own sanity or memory verbal abuse is.
This is a form of abuse that the nurses partner uses words to
hurt the little being, the partner.
And, of course, emotional abuse, where the form of abuse with the
nurses Barbara use emotional manipulation to control their
Partners Behavior. So, what I read, all them these
are like Ain't Optics and this is what I've noticed and that
eyewitness is that is not usually this one type of talk
that, it's usually multiple atactic Snappy.
I didn't say that. You must have heard that wrong.
I didn't do that. What are you talking about?
And an, even when you present, and this is going to resonate
with people, even when you present the person with physical
evidence, like, like a text or a pitcher, for example, you know,
like, oh, I never slept with Her.
Yeah. And, and have a picture of them
naked in bed together. That's Photoshop.
Somebody's trying to set me up, you know.
That is it, that is how extreme gaslighting once they admit that
they slept, welcome, why are you making such a big deal out of
it? Or they will pull the victim
card out and blame you because you're so frigid and do the
things I like? Yes, what I went, this is like
that come up with the master, ability to one Take any
accountability for their actions, they can worm their way
out of any actions. They've done manipulate lie,
just to make them sound better but then it's always the other
person's fault. If they don't do this, they
shouldn't do that. Well they do nothing right.
Yeah, which I this is the for persuade, this is what I find it
infuriating. Some of the top tips that I use
personally when I've been in these types of relationships, I
simply got to the point where I recorded every single
conversation I would have. So then when the argument was
inevitable and they would deny it, I would just simply play it
for them. And then chorus, although you're
recording me though. And then you just, I got tired
of playing. Oh, you said this, I said that
because it's inferior, because I tend to be a blunt individual.
I'm not bullshit type of person, I usually, and usually, I'm
pretty outspoken with something bothers me is with, and I found
with these types of people on this spectrum, is sometimes the
worst thing you can do. 100% And probably what you're getting
after is gray rock. Yes, a lot of people recommend
gray rock method which basically means you become very Bland, you
don't talk back, you don't have your strong opinions you.
You literally become sort of like, like a, like a grey rock
on enforced in the hopes of the narcissist won't bore them to
death, right? But the problem with grey with
grey Rock and I don't recommend it is because it's sometimes in
the short term, you know, while your Escape planning.
Sure. Yes.
The B is less of, you know, and outgoing person as you are and
I'm the same as you. I am outspoken.
I have have I have real trouble with with gray rock and it's,
and for most people, it's hard to do, and it's, and it's not
meant to be a long-term strategy.
So if you find yourself needing to do gray rock, that's an
indication that you need to get out of this relationship.
And if you're using great, rock is simply to survive until you
can get your get everybody out the door and away from this
person do that. But it's not a long-term
strategy that you're going to do gray rock for the next 20 years
is Your kids are grown up because you'll lick you just be
like a shadow of your phone only.
Yeah, it's hard to keep up something that I did in the only
because it's this help me because I have, you know, from
my background I was in corporate sales and stuff it with my jobs
I've had to deal with some very difficult people and you had to
deal with them because Ur like the big CEO or the vice
president of this other company. And in lot of the types of deals
that I would do, Do they're like, very industrial type of
deals. Oil Company.
Refinery, very big. You know, some one was like a
large metal melting Factory. So there's a lot of complexities
to these deals. So these these deals would take
sometimes a year-long to accomplish that, you would have
to interact with these people. And they were pretty brutal to
deal with, and you had to write your work required.
So I got good at being very Clinical with them, if that made
sense just answer their questions, specifically don't
really give a little bit of gray rock, but I would almost be a
little more clinical. Don't react pretend like you're
a doctor and you have a ward of crazy.
No patients that you're dealing with us.
So you expect their behavior, you expect them to say unhinge
things or insulting things and then I would actually stop
reacting to the insulting comments.
I would simply say, I'm sorry you feel Feel that way.
But you know maybe they saw you from practice for you.
I gotta say like a bee. Reaction, all of that time.
I mean, wow, that's a lesson. You don't get too often in life.
You know. It helped me and then and then
we're one situation. I was in work.
Were the relationship became so combative where I just thought
combating back. And then what I would do in the
morning, I would do a check-in. Right?
Say, is everything okay today I just want to make sure you're
gonna have a good day there. Anything we need to discuss.
Is there anything on your mind? And then if anything came, I
didn't try to address you this one, why didn't you bring it up
earlier? And we and then I just simply,
you know, your gray water rocking but you're still trying
to show a little empathy even though you almost feel like it.
So you're not doing like what they want though.
And this is what they want you to become bad of.
They want you to be agitated. They want you to unhinge and
off. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's the same across all platforms.
And, honestly, like I, as we sit here, I take my my And, I mean,
so many show ideas. Did you know that CEO is one of
the top professions along with surprise cops?
Yeah, that attracts those with high levels of narcissism.
Yes, I heard that and I believe that I heard that in the general
population roughly like six to seven percent of males have
narcissistic traits right and and then in the corporate world,
Old. This me go up to CEO the
c-suite. It's almost a 20 percent of that
population was taking these. These, you know.
Also like I I suspect it's much more talking about it and
everything that gets its possibly even more of the more
higher higher of a percentage. Oh yeah, chew it in in other
Industries. I would say when I was in the
stockbroker and we actually both 50% off like crazy stuff.
His wife and I follow each other on Instagram.
And she, I mean, I mean what she went through.
That's that's an extreme version.
Anybody that wants to watch a narcissist that work, and what
we're just about to go watch Wolf of Wall Street, and the, in
the US. Cocaine and booze and money.
Like I couldn't imagine like some of these characters in real
life who now have millions of dollars cocaine to feel all
their crazy ideas and then unlimited money.
And then, and also be in a position where, you know, people
are kissing their but because they have a powerful position
and they're giving away or providing high paying jobs to
people. Yeah, that's wild.
It's we could even I should write down a list of Good movies
to watch about narcissism. Yeah, let's do that.
I was thinking that we could go like look at some different
characters of movies and kind of do like a breakdown of them as
well because it's funny, like I said in the very beginning of
her of our podcast today. When I thought about narcissism
back in the day, I think about, you know, an arrogant person,
may be dressed all prepped, me and designer clothing too, good
for anything. And now, I actually look at a
person like that. I don't see them as a nurse.
I see my mother. System secure.
There are nurses that, take that trait.
But and now as time goes on the people that I now categorize the
nurses, they don't, they're not like that at all long time,
they're quite unattractive and there and it's, it's cuz of that
they're trying to overcompensate for being really at the end of
the day. And I'm not trying to be
disparaging, but some people are shitty people.
And it's the way they are. They don't have a lot going on
for them, their views of their horrible deal with.
They're the type of people that go to a restaurant or Fast food
and their fries are cold and they want to talk to the
manager. And next thing, you know,
they're either on Tick-Tock. You're flailing their arms
around, right? Yeah.
They they they want constant confrontation from people on the
Spectrum from, you know, from somebody who maybe does really
take care of their body, you know, gym, rats and that all the
word pound to someone with full-blown narcissistic
personality disorder. Yes, you know, Absolutely well.
Again, you know, going being a person, I did go to gyms and
still do and, you know, the Fitness.
Willow. Absolutely.
I it's like I worked. It was kind of funny.
I worked in a nightclub, and then, during the day, I work out
at the gym. I was a bouncer at a nightclub
was like in the early 90s and I'm surprised we haven't run
into each other. Yeah.
I feel like we know some mutual probably do and then it's funny
because it is the same idiots. You see during the day at the
gym, they were the same idiots in the bar.
You know, they say that again, you know, again, I don't want to
label everyone with the nurses brush.
Some people are just, you know, they just don't have good social
skills. So they almost great like a
character, a construct that they feel that that's the the face
they should be put out in the world, right?
And it may be in a lot of times in these, And I actually see us
more ties in security, and not really being a confident person.
When you're like, let's say you're a six foot tall man and
you weigh 300 pounds of Rippling muscles and you're still doing
more drugs and more steroids, he stole.
And I met these kind of guys because they think they're
small, they have like a body dysmorphia condition and I don't
listen to verse. I see them almost as broken
children. That, you know, you're talking
about these extreme like cases of or the woman.
Gets like the Tripoli Double D moves hit OK babe.
I'm like yeah it's very I mean human psychology is is complex
and it's also not complex because you know that's that's
another topic for another day to you know, like when we're
looking at somebody like dr. Gabor mate is from Vancouver to
really talks about trauma and addiction and sometimes by
modifying your body, you know for women like you talked about
or eating disorders going to the gym four guys.
And That it's almost an addiction and a lot of addiction
stem from childhood trauma and that's something, you know,
maybe we can look at next time to, you know, how created out of
adverse childhood experiences and that.
So, it's all, it's all kind of related key touch on something
you definitely I think a lot of people including myself included
the things. That's our makes us kind of
screwed up. Does stem from childhood more
older? I get I realize that right?
Yeah. I know the type of relationships
that I would get myself into. I had a crazy mother.
I'd always get into a relationship where I felt like I
had to save the woman that, you know, you're the Savior, your
the yeah. And then you'll.
Yeah, rescuer. And then I was spending all my
energy doing that instead of putting that energy into myself,
to making myself better than. Maybe I hate to say it, but
rocking a better quality person. And like I like I put on my page
all the time, you know, having a narcissistic parents, that's who
up to accept abuse and later. Relationships.
Yes. Absolutely.
You become as you do and and the patterns that you learn and your
family, whatever those are you will tend to repeat those in
your, in your adult life. So I do enjoy doing these shows
with you. I we go back until if we can
give a lot of stuff that we can talk about.
I hope that we can develop this into a successful series because
you know a lot of people like the first one will go like this
one. I just want to touch on the Adam
ate. Situation.
There's a Facebook group called stop.
Adam H, if you were a victim that you went through the last
door as a male, or he went to New Westminster House of the
female you had negative interactions with them.
Please contact me via Facebook or Instagram.
Send me a DM. I'd love to hear your
testimonial off the Record. Even I had a guy called me
yesterday and wanted. He didn't want to use his name
or anything he called me. I Listen to his testimony.
That I'm happy to do that, right?
So it's a complex story. It has a lot of moving parts and
a lot of victims. So I'm at this stage, I want to
hear everyone's testimony and figure out what we can do as a
community to prevent this from happening again.
And I think we're doing that already just by doing this
podcast and I hope that in some way, this can change the way
that these recovery houses are made.
You know, looking at placing vulnerable people with people of
the opposite sex act, wet, not maybe maybe that can be
Revisited because that's at the end of the day that it's not the
best idea. No.
And then, like you said, it's almost inevitable that a person
who has access to a pool of vulnerable.
Women are going to be. Yes, there exists.
It just like, you know, wolf in sheep clothing.
They're going to. Yeah.
Populations and, and it's really not that hard.
So,