1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,800 Welcome to Vancouver True Crime. My name is Mark, I'm the host of 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,200 the show today. I have a special guest in a 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,100 co-host. Please introduce yourself. 4 00:00:08,100 --> 00:00:11,100 Hi. My name is Ryan Plusle. 5 00:00:11,300 --> 00:00:15,200 I study at BCIT. I'm in the radio arts and 6 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,500 entertainment program and I specialize in journalism. 7 00:00:19,500 --> 00:00:23,300 So you contact me when we've been going back and forth about 8 00:00:23,300 --> 00:00:25,400 a month or so we'll give or take. 9 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,500 Yeah, about that. And then I've been sharing some 10 00:00:28,508 --> 00:00:30,900 cases we've been looking at That lot of like that. 11 00:00:30,900 --> 00:00:32,900 And what? Because of your 19 years old, 12 00:00:32,900 --> 00:00:35,200 maybe talk a little bit about your background first like a 13 00:00:35,208 --> 00:00:39,400 year and two Jiu-Jitsu you're in jiu-jitsu instructor and just to 14 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,300 tell the little audience about yourself. 15 00:00:41,900 --> 00:00:44,000 Yeah. So like Mark said, I'm a 16 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,200 jiu-jitsu instructor. I'm also a Jujitsu competitor. 17 00:00:48,300 --> 00:00:52,400 I have a particular interest in self defense and teaching people 18 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,600 how to defend themselves. That's why I got into the 19 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,300 coaching aspect starting with kids like School. 20 00:00:59,300 --> 00:01:02,900 Violence is He's been not okay with me and then now getting 21 00:01:02,900 --> 00:01:05,700 into the adult. Yeah, of course, now getting 22 00:01:05,700 --> 00:01:09,600 into the adult self, defense area, and martial arts area, 23 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,600 teaching them how to defend themselves to. 24 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,500 And I started bcat two years ago. 25 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,500 And I reached out to mark because I had a particular 26 00:01:18,500 --> 00:01:23,100 interest in the True Crime aspect of Journalism, especially 27 00:01:23,100 --> 00:01:29,000 living in Vancouver, where crime is so elevated, and it gets 28 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,900 worse and worse. Every single day which seems 29 00:01:31,900 --> 00:01:35,700 like an exaggeration but it's true every single day living in 30 00:01:35,700 --> 00:01:37,300 Vancouver. You hear about things getting 31 00:01:37,300 --> 00:01:40,100 worse and worse and worse. So a little bit about that 32 00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:43,400 before we started the show and I was telling you about you know, 33 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,400 I've been doing this for about three years and in the 34 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,100 beginning, you know, I had to build up a whole bunch of 35 00:01:48,107 --> 00:01:52,600 material and research because he knows new at a pub new material, 36 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,800 all my research and stuff and and even though I've written 37 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,000 some podcast like 23 years ago, I still haven't Them out yet 38 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,000 because so much stuff comes out and the new cycle that just puts 39 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,900 things in the head of a line. And then recently, it's just 40 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:13,800 like the, I can't keep up with the news cycle and the new cycle 41 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,200 doesn't represent the city that I, that I was born and raised in 42 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,700 anymore. Like, I didn't grow up in a city 43 00:02:20,700 --> 00:02:25,100 that had random attacks and bear sprays and machetes and people 44 00:02:25,100 --> 00:02:29,600 going gangs knifed on the bus and on the SkyTrain and you 45 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,700 know, Children, you know, going to go meet their mama and 46 00:02:32,700 --> 00:02:35,600 texting their mom, saying, hey, I feel scared or someone on the 47 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,500 bus and the next scene doesn't make it home alive, you know? 48 00:02:38,500 --> 00:02:42,200 This is not the so it is getting to be a very dangerous situation 49 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,100 and one of the things that I, you know, I'm grateful to work 50 00:02:46,100 --> 00:02:49,100 with you is because one, your age, you're 19 years old. 51 00:02:49,100 --> 00:02:55,300 And hopefully, you know, you can help reach more young people, 52 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,500 you know, get into martial arts and not use violence to solve 53 00:02:59,500 --> 00:03:02,200 your Than and, you know, I mean we've create disciplined for 54 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,900 yourself and, you know, self-esteem and self-worth. 55 00:03:06,900 --> 00:03:08,500 You're going to treat yourself better. 56 00:03:08,500 --> 00:03:10,800 If you have these things, you're not going to get involved with 57 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,100 these, you know, these terrible things, right? 58 00:03:13,100 --> 00:03:15,500 So I appreciate you having you on Ryan. 59 00:03:15,500 --> 00:03:17,900 And now we've had some great conversations. 60 00:03:17,900 --> 00:03:20,400 We talked a lot about some crazy cases. 61 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,100 I've been telling you about all these missing men cases across 62 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:25,700 North America, and how they mirror? 63 00:03:25,700 --> 00:03:30,600 A lot of strange cases and BC. And Vancouver. 64 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,900 And you've done some great research, and you found some, 65 00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:37,300 some really great information on a local case that we've been 66 00:03:37,300 --> 00:03:40,400 talking about for quite a while. Won't you talk about that case a 67 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:41,900 little bit? Yeah. 68 00:03:41,900 --> 00:03:45,700 So we've been, we've been looking into the Kellen mcelwee. 69 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,200 Disappearance, Kellen, went missing. 15 years ago, we just 70 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,000 reached the 15 year anniversary on March 19th. 71 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,700 And his disappearance is strange. 72 00:03:56,700 --> 00:04:01,700 He was he was out with friends at the In Langley, you left at 73 00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:05,900 around 9:00 p.m. and headed back to presumably his house in 74 00:04:05,900 --> 00:04:07,600 Burnaby or his apartment in Burnaby? 75 00:04:07,900 --> 00:04:10,900 Yes, the time. And then yeah then he didn't 76 00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:13,800 show up for work the next morning and was never seen 77 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,500 again. So they give a little context 78 00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:19,399 for people that don't live in Vancouver or maybe you know 79 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:22,400 you're listening because people listen to my podcast, thankfully 80 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:26,100 around the world. So out in Metro Vancouver there 81 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:29,200 is you know a suburb Township called Langley. 82 00:04:29,900 --> 00:04:33,500 And he lives in Burnaby, which is another suburb of an coover, 83 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:37,600 but Langley and Burnaby is roughly, maybe would half hour 84 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,500 drive, give or take. So he was eating at a keg 85 00:04:41,500 --> 00:04:43,700 restaurant which was in Langley and I actually lived pretty 86 00:04:43,700 --> 00:04:50,300 close to this location and across the street from The Keg 87 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,300 Steakhouse. There's a massive movie theater. 88 00:04:53,300 --> 00:04:55,000 It's a huge. It's called The Colossus 89 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,000 Theater, its massive. It's one of the biggest movie 90 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,700 theaters and Metro And has a huge parking lot. 91 00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:06,500 So he for my understanding he went and ate with his friends at 92 00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:09,700 The Keg restaurant, his car was parked in the movie theater, 93 00:05:09,700 --> 00:05:12,100 parking lot and he walked across the street. 94 00:05:12,100 --> 00:05:15,500 And literally that was a last he was ever seen alive, a super 95 00:05:15,500 --> 00:05:19,600 strange disappearance because we've talked and new information 96 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,400 is still coming to light to this day. 97 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,500 Yeah, we're gonna go ahead and clear, but we talked about like 98 00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:28,400 At first, this seems like a random disappearance, right? 99 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:29,700 We're right. How does this? 100 00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:33,500 Guy that was just out for dinner with his friends, right? 101 00:05:33,900 --> 00:05:37,900 Just go missing out of nowhere, it doesn't happen or at least we 102 00:05:37,900 --> 00:05:41,200 think it shouldn't happen. You talked about that. 103 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,000 It does happen more recently though, with all these 104 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,800 disappearances across North America that fit a similar 105 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,100 pattern, right? Yeah. 106 00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:50,300 Yeah. We're not to confuse the 107 00:05:50,300 --> 00:05:53,600 audience. So so what I talked to Ryan 108 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,500 about is a string of some very strange disappearances and in 109 00:05:58,500 --> 00:06:02,700 these disappearances It fits a very specific profile. 110 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,600 The the person that usually are the man or young man that 111 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:11,100 usually disappears is between the ages of 18 and to the high 112 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:14,000 range early 30s. But typically, they're in the 113 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:20,500 late teens, early 20s phase. They tend to be athletic tract 114 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:26,100 of above-average good-looking, not necessary and trouble and 115 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:29,300 gangs or involved in any type of criminal activity. 116 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:32,400 Lot of Times are. They're college kids General 117 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,100 case. I'm talking about making a lot 118 00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:35,500 of them. They go, they disappear off 119 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:37,900 college campus especially if they're out, partying, and then 120 00:06:37,900 --> 00:06:40,800 it gets blowing off, although they probably got drunk, they 121 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:45,200 probably got, you know, kids being crazy drinking too much, 122 00:06:45,300 --> 00:06:49,800 probably an accident and and sometimes these cases that they 123 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,200 are found and they're found in water, but they're found two 124 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,400 weeks or more than after they disappeared. 125 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,700 And in one case is because I don't want to get too. 126 00:06:59,900 --> 00:07:03,500 Confusing for the audience. In one case he disappeared for 127 00:07:03,500 --> 00:07:07,800 two weeks, he was found in a river in Upstate New York in the 128 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,400 river. But when they did an examination 129 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,700 report on him, the medical examination report, they found 130 00:07:13,700 --> 00:07:17,400 fly larvae eggs on his body. So that means he couldn't have 131 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,900 died in the water, he died on land and they plus they found 132 00:07:19,900 --> 00:07:21,900 ligature rope marks. So there's some, there's some 133 00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:26,800 very Sinister type of Foul Play to these cases, the bring it 134 00:07:26,808 --> 00:07:29,700 into contacts to the local cases. 135 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,800 There's a lot of cases that fit these cases that are happening 136 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,400 across North America. And at first it appeared that 137 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,000 Kalyn kind of fit the profile, he was above average looking 138 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:46,300 guy, kind of big muscular, he was a bouncer and he seemed well 139 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:48,600 liked by people. He had seemed to have an active 140 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,700 social life, and he didn't seem to really have criminal 141 00:07:51,700 --> 00:07:55,300 activity, but we found some more information about that, right? 142 00:07:55,700 --> 00:07:59,700 So why don't we talk first about the the thing that you 143 00:07:59,900 --> 00:08:02,000 Discovered our that article, he found. 144 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,300 Yes. So it's just coming to light 145 00:08:04,300 --> 00:08:07,000 now. Kellen had some, some strange 146 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:12,200 Tendencies and habits. Number one is the year, before 147 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,000 he went missing, Kellen owned his own company, and his company 148 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,700 was involved in a major Lottery scam. 149 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:20,700 Right? Mark, you were telling me is 150 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:24,400 very common and yeah, break that down for the audience. 151 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,600 So again, just when did he disappear? 152 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,800 He disappeared. March 19, 2008. 153 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,600 Right. So 15 years ago right? 154 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,700 So at first it was a strange case. 155 00:08:35,700 --> 00:08:39,299 Disappearance, his car was found someone appeared at his 156 00:08:39,299 --> 00:08:42,000 apartment will talk more about the apartment and they were 157 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,900 wearing this very distinct kind of puffy, designer. 158 00:08:44,900 --> 00:08:48,500 Jacket fur, trim on the security camera. 159 00:08:48,500 --> 00:08:52,500 Someone gained access to his apartment, right? 160 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:56,900 So, to the lottery thing, which was very interesting to me, and 161 00:08:56,900 --> 00:09:00,200 I was telling Ryan about this, and I shared a little tiny A bit 162 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:05,300 about this on my podcast before. But back in the day, when I used 163 00:09:05,300 --> 00:09:08,600 to work in the stock market industry, there was these things 164 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,300 called boiler rooms and they even had a show called Boiler 165 00:09:11,300 --> 00:09:12,700 Room. There was a movie called Boiler 166 00:09:12,700 --> 00:09:16,000 Room in a boiler. Room was a slang for kind of a 167 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,400 scummy scammy little company that either sold stocks. 168 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,600 Fake lotteries bonds, things like that. 169 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,100 They were startups Aid by, but the get a bunch of phones and 170 00:09:26,100 --> 00:09:28,900 deaths, hire a bunch of people by lists. 171 00:09:28,900 --> 00:09:34,000 These lists were Were typically older seniors in the United 172 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,000 States that didn't really have or understand investing and they 173 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,000 weren't really sophisticated financially. 174 00:09:40,300 --> 00:09:42,900 And basically these people over the phone would tell them that 175 00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:45,500 they won the lottery or they're going to get all these stocks or 176 00:09:45,500 --> 00:09:47,400 whatever. But you got to send money for 177 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,900 legal expenses or blah blah blah and it was outright scam. 178 00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:55,200 So I was surprised to hear that he was involved with one of 179 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,600 these phone scam companies that were in it. 180 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,500 Case, they were selling lottery tickets, and he had to pay back 181 00:10:02,500 --> 00:10:04,700 a penalty, didn't he? Yeah. 182 00:10:04,700 --> 00:10:06,300 And he wasn't just involved either. 183 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:10,100 He owned the company that he was supposedly doing this under, 184 00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:13,200 which makes it, which makes it super strange. 185 00:10:13,300 --> 00:10:16,600 Yeah. And like you said, Mark his his 186 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,600 disappearance as we go through these facts seem less and less 187 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,400 like, it fits that Narrative of Randomness less as we go through 188 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:25,600 these facts. Right? 189 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,500 Yes. So I Kellen was forced to pay 190 00:10:28,500 --> 00:10:31,600 65. A thousand dollars towards you 191 00:10:31,900 --> 00:10:35,300 to resolve this issue which is a lot of money. 192 00:10:35,300 --> 00:10:39,100 And then eventually his company was dissolved later in 2007 193 00:10:39,300 --> 00:10:44,000 because of this issue, right? Okay, so you own this company, 194 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,000 I'm looking at your notes here. Yeah, you did some great 195 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,300 research here. He owned a company called 196 00:10:48,300 --> 00:10:51,600 package and capital that was scaled scamming. 197 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,600 Elderly, people with fake lottery calls. 198 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,600 It's like I was saying, yeah, these, These are these 199 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,700 businesses, believe it or not, in the late 90s to early 200 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:04,700 Thousands were quite common, just to not get too down the 201 00:11:04,700 --> 00:11:10,000 rabbit hole of it, but I work for one and when I discovered 202 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:11,900 that they were ripping off old people. 203 00:11:11,900 --> 00:11:16,400 In my naivete, I decided to blow the whistle on them and went and 204 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,400 reported them to the police thinking that would solve 205 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:19,800 everything. Ha ha. 206 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,000 I certainly Got A Life Lesson doing that. 207 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,800 So I end up had been mistaken. Oh my God. 208 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:28,700 And that's the thing. You want to build to do the 209 00:11:28,700 --> 00:11:33,000 right thing and I I swear to God though, the sometimes when you 210 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,300 want to do the right thing, God, it's a worst thing you can 211 00:11:35,300 --> 00:11:37,600 possibly do is end up three years of my life. 212 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,600 I end up being having me a witness in court and blah, blah, 213 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,400 blah, and the owner of this company and up getting 10 years. 214 00:11:43,900 --> 00:11:46,500 But I really had a, the way that the police did it. 215 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:50,500 I really met made me, I felt very vulnerable to because I 216 00:11:50,500 --> 00:11:54,200 want to be anonymous. And and when they end up 217 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,500 wrestling, I owe my name was all over the report. 218 00:11:56,500 --> 00:11:59,600 A complaint from Mark Devereaux, you're doing bad stuff. 219 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,200 Hahaha. And, and yeah. 220 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,200 And then like you're saying and was still saying to you before, 221 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,500 what's the most Shady aspect of this business? 222 00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:12,800 Is because I understand how the business works is the 223 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,800 processing, the merchant account, the merchant account is 224 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:20,400 the most important aspect of it, because if I call an old person 225 00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:24,700 and say, hey you need to send me a check for five thousand 226 00:12:24,700 --> 00:12:28,300 dollars for the legal expenses because you just 15 million 227 00:12:28,300 --> 00:12:32,500 dollars from the Ian lottery or some stock or whatever. 228 00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:36,000 Bullshit I'm telling them, I have to build a process that 229 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,200 money. They're not going to send me 230 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,700 cash in the mail. So a lot of times they would get 231 00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:42,900 people to write checks. They do a check by phone where 232 00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:45,900 they process the check by phone, but they need a bank, that will 233 00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:48,600 process that, right? Or a credit card. 234 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,900 The credit card has to go through a processor. 235 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:57,600 And, and most reputable Banks do not want to touch anything 236 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,700 fraudulent or Criminal. So lot of times these banks that 237 00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:07,500 facilitate this type of criminal activity or are located offshore 238 00:13:07,700 --> 00:13:11,100 there in the Caribbean or they're even in some cases or 239 00:13:11,100 --> 00:13:14,800 year up because they have to build a process that the money 240 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,900 that they're getting from people over the phone. 241 00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:19,900 So that's where the real criminal circles really start to 242 00:13:19,900 --> 00:13:21,300 lie. Because the people that have 243 00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:24,500 these banks are definitely involved in criminal activity, 244 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:28,600 money laundering and and it's, yeah, that's where it gets 245 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,600 really sketchy. Yeah, and we're aware that 246 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,500 Kellen was running a international scheme because 247 00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:39,800 well he was scamming was out of America and United Kingdom 248 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,500 primarily. He must have made some money 249 00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:44,800 because he bought a condo, right? 250 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,400 Yeah. So the same day that he went 251 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,600 missing Kellan bought his condo that we are going to get into 252 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,400 that. There was a strange Person of 253 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:59,600 Interest appearing at later that night Kellan bought the condo 254 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,700 And he paid way over asking price for the condo to. 255 00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:06,700 So he must have had some money like you said, from from the 256 00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:10,900 schemes that he was doing or other interesting tactics of 257 00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:12,200 getting this money. Yeah. 258 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,300 Cuz I'd some of those rooms made a lot of money because and know 259 00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:18,300 the one that I was working for the one that I helped take down, 260 00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:22,200 the guy was making about five million a year and he was 261 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,200 running. And he had this thing running 262 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,300 for I think at least for about five to six years. 263 00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:32,300 If memory serves me, correct. So even if he pays like a 65 264 00:14:32,300 --> 00:14:35,400 thousand dollar penalty, but you have all this other money stash, 265 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,000 right? Plus 2, if he is, because of the 266 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,000 banking he could have money stashed offshore and things like 267 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,700 that. Exactly. 268 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:46,100 And you know, like you said and like we were talking about it's 269 00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:48,800 an international scheme, right? So like you said, the chances 270 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,000 that he had that money stored offshore are very high 271 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:57,200 considering that kellan's day job was working at a Rogers call 272 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:02,200 center which one yeah when The police, and everybody started to 273 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,400 investigate his spending habits and how he actually afforded 274 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,400 this apartment that he bought the day of his disappearance. 275 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,100 It didn't add up not at all. No, he was working as a bouncer. 276 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:14,500 And trust me, I worked as a bouncer back, then, it doesn't 277 00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:15,900 pay very well. It's a job. 278 00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:17,700 You do? Because he get to go out for 279 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:19,400 her. For, you know, you get, you get 280 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,800 bar courtesy and kind of stuff bouncing does not pay. 281 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,800 Well, not not not enough to buy a condo, right? 282 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,800 A pentose Rogers, call center back. 283 00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:34,400 Back then maybe 15 bucks an hour a maybe you know if he's a 284 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:39,700 supervisor maybe 18 buying a penthouse condo with that kind 285 00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:42,600 of income. So yeah, seems like he had some 286 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,400 money squirreled away and obviously he upset somebody it 287 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,400 does. Now, the more you look at it, 288 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,200 this looks like in my opinion this is just speculation with 289 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,500 this, probably, when that business, got shut down. 290 00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:58,500 He probably lost a bunch of people's money, if that makes 291 00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:02,500 sense. I agree for example, right? 292 00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:04,900 But they're all being processed through that one bank. 293 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,700 So if one person screws it up and gets a bank shut down, a lot 294 00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:12,400 of a lot of other people suffer if that makes sense. 295 00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:16,000 Yeah, it does. So what you're saying is he met 296 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,000 some unsavory characters and Colin's dad agreed as well that 297 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,400 he could have met some unsavory characters in his time as a 298 00:16:22,408 --> 00:16:25,000 bouncer, but not just as a bouncer running. 299 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,700 This company that's scamming a bunch of people. 300 00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:32,600 He probably met some People that eventually helped telling me his 301 00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:35,300 demise right? Oh, totally in there. 302 00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:37,600 Wouldn't be an easy. It wouldn't be that difficult 303 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,900 because I like a sinking too. Because again, people that are 304 00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:45,200 involved in Fast. Money, quick, money, offshore 305 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,800 money. You know, there they had been 306 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,200 might have their fingers in a whole bunch of different pies, 307 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,800 right? And and, and like I said, if he 308 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,300 came and maybe made some waves and maybe got a bank shutdown, 309 00:16:55,300 --> 00:16:58,900 that would have been a big deal and like that could have caused 310 00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:01,500 some really Mouse. It's of ways because again, with 311 00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:05,599 criminals in general, how do you get in trouble with them? 312 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,400 Either owing money or insulting their integrity? 313 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,500 And, you know, getting the ire of their temper because you 314 00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:15,700 disrespected them. But mainly, you're going to get 315 00:17:15,700 --> 00:17:19,900 ne crosshairs of gangsters if you owe them or lose them, 316 00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:23,300 massive amounts of money and then if he's buying a condo 317 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,700 right that could have been like a little bit to okay. 318 00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:29,400 You're you're you're you're showing off here, right? 319 00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:32,300 Yeah. It's basically confirmed that he 320 00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:34,200 had some sort of criminal tie, right? 321 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,500 Like, with this company he owned and then there's the fact too 322 00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:40,500 that he had two cell phones at the time of his disappearance, 323 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,300 which is, which could be related to some sort of gang activity. 324 00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:47,600 Well, you know what, so believe it or not, because I again, back 325 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,800 to that business, he could have eaten a lot of these people I'm 326 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,300 telling you, because these people that ran, these rooms 327 00:17:54,300 --> 00:17:56,500 were just treacherous. So, they would get busted, and 328 00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:58,300 even though they're being busted, they'd open up another 329 00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:00,100 room and open up another room, and Another room. 330 00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:01,900 These can't help it. They just is only will. 331 00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:03,900 This is how they know how to make money, right? 332 00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:08,400 So the second phone is usually tied to that business. 333 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,600 So for what I'm saying is that, so think about this, right? 334 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,400 I called this a 50 people that day and told them, they won the 335 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,100 lottery or blah, blah blah, right? 336 00:18:17,100 --> 00:18:19,500 I'm not going to give him my all my home phone number. 337 00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:20,900 I'm going to give them a different number. 338 00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:24,800 Usually, a burner phone, some of these boiler rooms. 339 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,400 Literally, they run on boiler on Burner phones. 340 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,100 So we're not And phone rings. It's you know it's a customer. 341 00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:34,700 Oh we got a live one here. They think they want a bunch of 342 00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:35,500 money. Okay. 343 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:38,800 You see what I mean? So the second phone you know 344 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,000 again could be you know, dealing or whatever. 345 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,500 But because of this that business that that for me gives 346 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:48,400 me an indication that he might have still had something going 347 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,900 because sometimes they have these dupes. 348 00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:54,000 I'm not I'm not kidding. These people are so naive and so 349 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,100 trusting they're not going to just pay them once or going to 350 00:18:57,100 --> 00:19:00,100 pay them multiple times and sometimes they'll have They 351 00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:01,700 literally, I've seen it. They have that. 352 00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:05,700 People have, they called their sucker list of people that will 353 00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:07,100 just you. Anytime you call them and say, 354 00:19:07,100 --> 00:19:10,200 hey, I got that Chuck. Oh my god, did I forget to write 355 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,000 you that check? And they've already written to 356 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,900 you four times. You see what I mean? 357 00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:16,100 Yeah. Exactly. 358 00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:20,700 And and with the phone thing to a lot of people at the time of 359 00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:23,600 Carolyn's disappearance, this this phone information came to 360 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,300 light pretty fast, right? Yeah. 361 00:19:25,300 --> 00:19:28,100 Where is this information about his second company is just now 362 00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:31,100 coming to light, but a lot of people Activated at first like 363 00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:34,400 okay maybe it's because he had a job with the Rogers. 364 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,600 Call center or maybe this and maybe that but his disappearance 365 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,000 as you go through these facts just seems less and less random 366 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,700 right? He wasn't the victim of some 367 00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:45,800 random attack. No. 368 00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:48,100 Yeah. At first I sent him into that 369 00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:52,600 kind of category because I did a I did a little bit about him 370 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,300 when I first started and I mentioned, I think I did a 371 00:19:56,308 --> 00:20:00,100 podcast about my, why did it? I did a Agent Lee. 372 00:20:00,100 --> 00:20:02,100 I did a bunch of podcasts about missing, man. 373 00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:05,400 I've taken it down, so I want to reboot it, but I first 374 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,100 speculated that I felt his job as a bouncer, he might have 375 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:11,600 pissed off the wrong guy and maybe throughout the wrong guy 376 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,900 or got disrespectful or whatever and they wanted to show him. 377 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:22,300 But now, as from what you're talking about him, having one of 378 00:20:22,308 --> 00:20:27,000 these, these boiler rooms that that totally blows my mind and 379 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,700 it again because I have some experience. 380 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,900 It's unfortunately, and at least, in my case, I try to do 381 00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:36,000 something about it, but even at a personal cost to myself, but 382 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,600 whatever I'm glad I did, but but it gives me some. 383 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,500 It gives me a real like whole different. 384 00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:44,900 Look at him knowing that he owned one of these businesses 385 00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:46,700 because they're pretty shady businesses. 386 00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:50,400 And they do, they do they just go out and they rip people off 387 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,800 with or without any remorse and that? 388 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,500 Yeah, that's what why I found it. 389 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:57,900 Disgusting the reason why I went to the police because when I'm 390 00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:01,500 walking around in the room, All these idiots talking about all 391 00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:05,800 the hookers and the coke they did and the weekend and all the 392 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,200 money, they blew and they're stealing from old people. 393 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:14,500 And this one guy he on his desk, he wrote oh this guy's blind. 394 00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:18,200 So this what the so that means it was like a top you know Blue 395 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,100 Ribbon lead. All this is a good one. 396 00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:24,500 This guy is blind and I'm like, wow like this is disgusting just 397 00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:28,200 so they could go get, you know party and buy designer clothes 398 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,800 and sniff stuff. Are not, you know, you get the 399 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,300 idea like a bunch. It was a bunch of people who 400 00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:39,300 were very into debauchery and as fast as the money, they got the 401 00:21:39,300 --> 00:21:44,000 fast, is it got spent, you know, yeah, Kelly wasn't really in the 402 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,200 business to help people, right? Especially in the business like 403 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,500 this. No, it's a business for 404 00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:51,900 straight-up greed. And I knew people like, you 405 00:21:51,900 --> 00:21:54,700 know, again, I knew people that would start, one of these boiler 406 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:58,200 rooms is to make a bit of money and not saying it's still no 407 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,400 more good but then they, They would do something and turn into 408 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,900 something kind of legitimate. But then, I seen others at this 409 00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:08,600 is this was their main gig and they soon as one shutdown they 410 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,500 had two other rooms opened up. And I knew people that had 411 00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:14,800 multiple because again, they were so prominent downtown 412 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,500 Vancouver at the time and they'd even be advertising in 413 00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:19,500 newspapers. Like, you know, back when for 414 00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:24,100 internet was job ads, it is straight-up advertised. 415 00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:26,800 Sell the lotto to the Americans, they had a call center. 416 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,600 I'll tell you a quick story. They had a call center that In 417 00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:36,200 specific Center. And it was unworthy, there's be 418 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,100 this big underground part. It was a mass of call center, 419 00:22:39,100 --> 00:22:41,500 and that's all they did was sell large, it was head and pulled 420 00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:45,300 hundreds of people. And this guy, his name was Blair 421 00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:47,600 Downs. He was a stockbroker from 422 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:52,700 Alberta that moved to BC. He made over 300 million 423 00:22:52,700 --> 00:22:57,600 dollars, a year selling Lottery to them, to Americans scamming 424 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,900 them. He had guys that would Get 425 00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:01,800 hundreds of thousands of dollars. 426 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,400 So like I said, it was like this big rush of easy money. 427 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,200 Like Vancouver has a real shady history of fast money from 428 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,900 grow-ops. This is kind of before this was 429 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,900 all while grown-ups are going on. 430 00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:19,400 So people would either have grow-ops or they would have one 431 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,600 of these scummy rooms at ripped off Americans. 432 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,800 Their, the again, it was it was more common than you think. 433 00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:28,500 And and disgusting. Yeah, that's insane. 434 00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:32,600 It's just Again, it's just multiple things about, his 435 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,600 disappearance are just very shady. 436 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,000 Yes. And the fact that he was 437 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,900 involved in these multiple Shady acts. 438 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,400 Yeah. Do you want to get into the 439 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,900 person of his apartment to because that's another Shady 440 00:23:44,900 --> 00:23:47,200 thing. He buys the apartment the same 441 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,900 day that he goes missing and there was someone found at his 442 00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:55,200 apartment on CCTV footage. Yeah that is linked to the case 443 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,900 now or police find could be linked to the so that was That 444 00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:03,700 the original video of the person walking into the lobby and they 445 00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:06,800 had like, kind of that winter parka of the fur lining coat. 446 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,200 They had to pulled over so you can't really see their face. 447 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,900 Yep. And if you do, you think when 448 00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:14,200 you looked at it, did that look like I always thought it looked 449 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,700 like a girl or a more petite woman. 450 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,600 So from what I've what I've read police are speculating that it 451 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,100 was a man but I agree with you from watching from watching the 452 00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:27,800 footage, they're not, they're not 100% sure. 453 00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:31,500 And neither am I because Seeing the footage, their mannerisms 454 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,500 seeing more woman. Yes. 455 00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:36,200 And then looking at the photos of the jacket that the police 456 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:41,700 have released if you tie that to going to that website it's a an 457 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,900 excuse, my pronunciation on this Christian. 458 00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:49,200 Add a dagger style jacket? Yeah. 459 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,000 But if you look at the photos on their website, the people 460 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,800 modeling that jacket that that person is wearing our females. 461 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,400 Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. 462 00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:00,300 Totally. I know. 463 00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:03,600 I totally got the vibe. It was a woman like went to the 464 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,500 apartment. Yeah. 465 00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:08,800 Which is, which is super interesting because police have 466 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:13,200 directly said that that person is most likely tied to this case 467 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,100 somehow. And they've never been able to 468 00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:19,100 find that person of interest, if that person still has the jacket 469 00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:23,800 15 years later after this case, it's not like what you're right. 470 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,900 But well, that's the thing, right? 471 00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:28,500 It isn't it, you know, it will also. 472 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:31,200 I remember there was a, See backpack. 473 00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:35,900 Yes, I Sky research cases across, you know, Canada United 474 00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:40,200 States, its tends to be a lot easier, researching cases in the 475 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,800 States because they will inform the public on the stages of 476 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,000 Investigation. Suspects things like that, there 477 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,900 seems to be a lot more transparency here. 478 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,200 I mean, in the states, as far as look at the eye of the Idaho, 479 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,600 call the college co-ed killer died. 480 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,500 I've seen her a 3D rendering of what the house looks like. 481 00:25:57,500 --> 00:25:59,500 I know, I know so much about that case. 482 00:25:59,700 --> 00:26:02,600 Right. He is well, here this could, but 483 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,300 here, it's like 25 years later. Oh, yeah, we released A CTV 484 00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:08,300 photo blah, blah blah. You know what I mean? 485 00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:10,100 It's like, okay, is there anything else? 486 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,600 And then this information about his him, buying the apartment, 487 00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:17,700 the same day, and him being involved in this pack Jen scam. 488 00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:23,200 Yeah, now just coming to light like it's super strength, right? 489 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,800 If he paid over asking, right, okay, so again, you know, just 490 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,000 doing the play Connect the Dots here, right? 491 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,000 He's a guy guys young, he's 25 years old works. 492 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,200 As a bouncer, you know, God has moved social life and stuff like 493 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,200 that, right? And he works at the call center 494 00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:42,500 and and then he had this really shady business that was just, 495 00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:45,200 you know, call what it is. It's a, it's a, it's a criminal 496 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,800 Enterprise to scam. People its Financial fraudulent 497 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,700 business that's it's designed to trick and steal from people, 498 00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:57,000 right? And then he had to pay a huge 499 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,500 penalty and then he buys a mass that buys a pretty, you know, an 500 00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:04,200 expensive property pays over asking and then he disappears a 501 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,200 day. It's just, yeah, it's a whole 502 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,100 different case now from from when I originally looked at it. 503 00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:11,500 Yeah. Not just over asking either. 504 00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:14,500 So the asking price was about a half a million dollars. 505 00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:18,000 He paid over a hundred thousand dollars more for that pain? 506 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,800 Wow. Which is insane. 507 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,000 That's criminally insane. Why would you do that? 508 00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:24,800 You know. Yeah, I really wanted that. 509 00:27:24,900 --> 00:27:26,900 Place right? Yeah, I guess so. 510 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,300 Yeah. And I'm thinking about 2008. 511 00:27:30,700 --> 00:27:35,200 The, the housing market has probably relatively expensive to 512 00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:38,300 but it wasn't really heating up where it was like, just that, 513 00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:40,700 you know, where we do remember like a, you know, a few years 514 00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:43,900 later where people were just going crazy going over asking, 515 00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:46,200 because it was like this big buyer friends and a lot of times 516 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,000 to those are people that coming from outside of the city with 517 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:50,800 money. Right? 518 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,200 You know. Yes. 519 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:58,000 So the thing is he doesn't really Fit that criteria of at 520 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,300 125. Most 25 year olds are not paying 521 00:28:00,300 --> 00:28:04,600 100 Grand over asking, right? So blown away to and I'm also 522 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,900 blown away that took this long for it to come out. 523 00:28:07,300 --> 00:28:11,300 Yeah me too and I don't know why it has suddenly come out. 524 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:16,100 I know initially it was investigated in 2011 when K 525 00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:19,400 father petitioned to have his son, declared dead, right? 526 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,500 And the court filing said that his income K income wasn't 527 00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:28,200 match, Being up with his new mortgage payments on the condo. 528 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,600 So his mortgage payments on the new condo were about four 529 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,200 thousand four hundred dollars a month. 530 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,800 Wow, was a hundred and fifty percent more than he was making 531 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,500 again, when you're dealing with criminals, where they call a den 532 00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:43,100 of Thieves, right? Yeah, exactly. 533 00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:46,300 Like, pick your poison for your partner, sir. 534 00:28:46,300 --> 00:28:51,100 Hey, you're not going to get the most the most liable and the 535 00:28:51,108 --> 00:28:53,300 most loyal. Yeah. 536 00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:56,400 And when you mention like, Willing to scan this blind 537 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,100 person. Like, it's they've won the 538 00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:00,500 lottery, you know, they're like, oh man, I found this blind 539 00:29:00,500 --> 00:29:01,900 person. They are perfect Target 540 00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:05,200 attitude. It was totally disgusting. 541 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,200 Look, I'm already smoking. They're willing to scan this 542 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,500 blind elderly person right? Yeah. 543 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,900 They are likely going to do that for you as well, you know? 544 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,100 Oh, totally. Yeah. 545 00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:19,300 You know, exactly right. Well, it'll be interesting to 546 00:29:19,308 --> 00:29:22,900 see what happens one. I don't think they'll ever find 547 00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:26,000 his body unfortunately, and and for the, The family, you know, I 548 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,000 regardless if he was involved in criminal activity you know we're 549 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,900 all did stupid stuff. He's 25 years old, I don't 550 00:29:32,900 --> 00:29:35,300 believe he deserved the faith. That happened to him. 551 00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:37,900 You know, everyone has a chance should have a chance to turn 552 00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:41,400 their life around. And, you know, do the right 553 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,500 thing, we all make mistakes, when were younger, but this is 554 00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:46,600 what I'm saying to. This is another cautionary, 555 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,900 tale. Where in this is back to 556 00:29:49,900 --> 00:29:54,700 Vancouver, I see people young people naive people, they get 557 00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:57,100 Over their head. Like, for example, let's say a 558 00:29:57,100 --> 00:30:00,200 guy gets a job at though, in those Lottery places thinking 559 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,800 it's a legitimate job because they used to advertise in 560 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,600 regular, like job ads, all the time. 561 00:30:07,900 --> 00:30:10,900 And, and then he decides he's good at this and he's making 562 00:30:10,900 --> 00:30:13,300 lots of money and said, hey, I want to start my own room, 563 00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:14,900 right? See how easy that someone can 564 00:30:14,900 --> 00:30:18,100 just all sudden is get in over their head, right? 565 00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:21,200 And then a lot of times these rooms to because he's people 566 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,700 that are working and I'm there doing drugs or drinking a lot, 567 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,200 not there, you know, they're they're spending the money 568 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,900 faster than they can spend. I want the one of the guys I 569 00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:35,400 worked with he. This guy every Friday he had a 570 00:30:35,408 --> 00:30:38,800 condo downtown and he would have these crazy parties. 571 00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:44,100 And I remember one time I went over to his house or his condo 572 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,800 Sky worked with in this Lottery scummy, business coffee table. 573 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,600 You want to skim board as you know, where you way you ride the 574 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,100 way, you know, when the waves. Yeah, you know. 575 00:30:53,100 --> 00:30:54,700 Yeah, gotcha. Skimboard here. 576 00:30:54,900 --> 00:31:00,200 Skim board on the skim board, it had a pile of cocaine on it and 577 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,300 I'm like, oh, snorting up all your profits, you made this week 578 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,900 and that's where the money goes to. 579 00:31:04,900 --> 00:31:08,600 And that's why that's why it's, you know, I have no respect for 580 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,600 people that do this kind of business because definitely they 581 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,900 feel subconsciously guilty about it, and they usually end up 582 00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:19,500 drinking blowing blowing it a literally up their nose and it's 583 00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:22,100 a rabbit hole, right? Like you start by applying for 584 00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:24,300 this random harmless job. Yeah. 585 00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:26,900 And you, Don't know where it's going to go and you end up in 586 00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:30,400 this Boiler Room situation and then it goes downhill from there 587 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,100 and then click to take raw headlock cases to. 588 00:31:33,700 --> 00:31:36,900 Yeah, exactly. It's not to say that like it's a 589 00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:39,700 very unfortunate situation for Kellen, you know. 590 00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:45,100 Yeah it's super unfortunate that he met this fate but I believe 591 00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:49,300 it is because of this crowd and this job oii hundred percent. 592 00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:51,500 That's because it's really a characters. 593 00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:55,400 Yeah, this really sheds a whole different light on Everything 594 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,700 and yeah, it was really good. Great discovery. 595 00:31:57,700 --> 00:32:00,500 And he said that just came out really recent to. 596 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,300 Yeah at the time of filming this yesterday, this information came 597 00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:10,000 to light to the public. So the cases that I want to talk 598 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,100 about with you two and this is like just kind of back to the 599 00:32:13,100 --> 00:32:16,200 audience this to give a context when we first started talking, I 600 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,800 was talking about there, there was these cases and the state's 601 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,600 I'm kind of on the fence on it. Like I do. 602 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,700 Believe there's something there, but they're they're very 603 00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:30,600 strange. And then these are the cases 604 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,500 where the person that doesn't have any criminal activity, or 605 00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:36,700 any ties. And usually typically very good 606 00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:41,200 kids and, you know, in school and college and, you know, doing 607 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,800 things that are positive in their life and they disappear 608 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,700 under these circumstances. So in the state's there's a 609 00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:51,000 whole rash of them and there they they believe there's a cult 610 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,700 called the smiley face killers that that Target young ass. 611 00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:58,000 Leduc men and they think they do some tart type of disturbing 612 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,900 ritual with them and then they're found and water after 613 00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:06,800 they've gone missing. And lot of times when they 614 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,600 discover these bodies is that they can tell that they haven't 615 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,900 been in the water for that long. So they've been missing for two 616 00:33:12,900 --> 00:33:15,200 weeks. They've only been their body is 617 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,800 only been dead for three days and they went and only been in 618 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,200 the water for a day, right? When they do the examination 619 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,000 report on them. So there's some very Strange 620 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,500 cases. And in some cases, I feel that 621 00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:32,000 some of these cases get lumped and and to them, I do believe 622 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,400 there's something to the smiley face Killers because they're 623 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,900 just too many of them and they're really strange. 624 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,700 Did you read that article both day with? 625 00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:44,400 It was a buzzfeed one, I believe. 626 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,600 So yes, that one was the weirdest one. 627 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,100 Because North Dakota, North Dakota. 628 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:59,400 Yep, this guy goes missing. He's found in water, but but 629 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,200 someone tried to abduct him, but two weeks earlier and his friend 630 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:08,199 who was a female friend picked him up at a hotel and he was 631 00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:12,500 totally drugged and incoherent, and he didn't make any sense. 632 00:34:12,500 --> 00:34:15,400 And there was all these SUVs, like, parked, or like he was 633 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,400 walking out of the hotel lobby and she saw him. 634 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:23,400 She had him on there on the on the iPhone, you know, connector 635 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,699 the find my iPhone app. Yeah, find my iPhone. 636 00:34:25,699 --> 00:34:29,900 Yeah and and so she knew where he was and she saw him wave and 637 00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:32,800 he was both to get into some SUV and he was like completely 638 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,699 drugged out. And then two weeks later he's 639 00:34:35,699 --> 00:34:38,800 found in water. Drowned of GHB in the system. 640 00:34:39,699 --> 00:34:43,100 Yeah, there's there's these strange cases that fit all the 641 00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:46,100 same narrative and the reason we're starting these these 642 00:34:46,100 --> 00:34:50,000 missing men podcast series Is because we wanted to talk about 643 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,100 like, how that's there's some of these in Vancouver, right? 644 00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:55,800 That our problem that fit is similar narrative. 645 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,400 We thought like we were talking about that. 646 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,800 Kellen fit, a similar narrative at first, right? 647 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,900 Yeah, I was kind of like when I first started he fit but then, 648 00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:09,300 there was those little things, I know, maybe not. 649 00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:10,100 Right. But now. 650 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,800 Absolutely, I don't think he fits. 651 00:35:11,900 --> 00:35:16,200 No me neither, but it's interesting to get into those 652 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,100 the smiley face, killing rumor. Right. 653 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,300 Yeah, there's a ton of rumors about them and like you said, I 654 00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:23,900 do believe there's something to it right? 655 00:35:23,900 --> 00:35:30,900 Where these men healthy, always like academically intelligent 656 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,800 doing well in life, are then suddenly going missing, right? 657 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,300 And there's cases where this has happened in Vancouver to totally 658 00:35:39,100 --> 00:35:40,700 and it'll be interesting to get into them. 659 00:35:40,700 --> 00:35:42,900 For sure will break down more of them. 660 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:48,900 Again, they just don't make any sense and one of the ones, That 661 00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:50,900 really, I don't know. Just gets under my skin 662 00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:53,000 increasing out. Was this, it was this young guy. 663 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:58,500 He was, I think he was studying architecture at pretty an 664 00:35:58,500 --> 00:36:01,600 advanced degree. He was a very petite guy, very 665 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,600 small, very harmless. He didn't have like he wasn't 666 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,700 really outgoing. He kind of a little bit of a 667 00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:10,200 loner and he told his roommate, he goes. 668 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:11,300 Oh I'm just going to go gets here. 669 00:36:11,300 --> 00:36:14,300 I think he went to the University of Boston and he told 670 00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:17,300 his roommate, or I'm going to go down and get some pizza. 671 00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:18,400 Do you want anything? We got it. 672 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:25,200 I'm cool and he never came home and the next day the rowers were 673 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,900 rowing on the on the river and they found his body underneath 674 00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:34,100 the dock and he was completely chained up like completely like 675 00:36:34,100 --> 00:36:37,100 a almost like you'd see like in a like a mobster movie like 676 00:36:37,100 --> 00:36:40,300 completely wrapped and change tied to a cinder block. 677 00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:44,400 Well they ruled it a suicide and I'm like and that's what one of 678 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,200 the other strange things is that these cases like even though 679 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,200 they're really strange stuff to get just the first the first 680 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:52,800 ruling from the medical examiner. 681 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,200 Also suicide misadventure dotted and the families usually are 682 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,900 very outraged and they hire in the one thing different in the 683 00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:02,300 states than in Canada. Families can hire their own 684 00:37:02,300 --> 00:37:07,900 private medical examiner's. And they, when they do a 685 00:37:07,908 --> 00:37:11,800 different one, they usually go against the original ruling. 686 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,700 And so how can a guy tie himself completely up and chains and 687 00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:20,400 then tie it to a cinder block? Talk and then jump off a dock 688 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,700 and then drown himself. Yeah, it doesn't make sense, 689 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,500 right? Not at all and that's the 690 00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:31,300 difference that I feel in the state's not saying, cops in the 691 00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:35,700 states or any better or anything, but they're they seem 692 00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:38,300 to provide more information to the public. 693 00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:41,400 Yeah, agreed. And that's the problem to when 694 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,800 we talk about raising awareness, for how to be aware in 695 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,600 situations, right? Yes. 696 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,700 And I know we've talked about potentially doing a series about 697 00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:57,100 how to erase where Ernest raise awareness or E and it's these 698 00:37:57,100 --> 00:37:59,200 police statements that are coming out of. 699 00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:02,800 Don't be afraid for these random attacking people should be 700 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,100 afraid and there's certain areas that people should be avoiding. 701 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:07,200 Yeah. Right. 702 00:38:07,500 --> 00:38:10,600 And that's the issue that we're facing right now in Vancouver. 703 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,800 A lot of the time. Well, again, you know, we go 704 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,800 back to the missing people, right? 705 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,700 Like the thing that's strange, you know, it's this, it's that 706 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,900 more people go missing and DC than anywhere else possibly like 707 00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:29,100 per capita, the North America because think about this right 708 00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:33,500 you got your province of Ontario, 15 million people but 709 00:38:33,500 --> 00:38:39,700 yet even though BC has a lot less population, let's say give 710 00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:42,600 or take 45 million for the entire Province. 711 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,200 I'm just get taken a number off, the top of my head but we have 712 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,200 twice the physical missing people than a province that has 713 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,900 over 15 million people. Majority of them are women? 714 00:38:54,100 --> 00:38:56,700 A lot of them are indigenous with that? 715 00:38:56,700 --> 00:39:00,700 That's a whole nother, you know, rabbit hole, we can go down to. 716 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,200 But again, when it comes down to the least, likely people that go 717 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,400 missing or usually athletic young men, but then there's a 718 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,900 high Spike of them to write. So that's why it stands out to 719 00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:18,700 me because it's like a spike of a kind of a demographic, that's 720 00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:22,300 the least likely to go disappear under strange circumstances. 721 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,600 Someone's involved in drugs or criminal activity or uo scary 722 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,900 people money, or you're in a domestic violence situation or 723 00:39:30,900 --> 00:39:33,700 you're prone to Suicide or depression. 724 00:39:33,700 --> 00:39:37,400 These are usually typical reasons why someone might decide 725 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,800 to go missing or or become missing, right? 726 00:39:41,700 --> 00:39:45,300 Yeah I agreed and the scary part is too that I don't hear a lot 727 00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:48,600 of people talking about these missing men's cases like they're 728 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,400 very unknown to the public. They are randomized, right? 729 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,500 Right? And that's the scary part is. 730 00:39:54,600 --> 00:40:00,500 Why are these cases popping up? Because in history like you 731 00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:03,700 said, it's usually these young healthy athletic males that are 732 00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:07,200 physically fit that usually have nothing to worry about honest, 733 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,200 no, no, it's getting a narrative. 734 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,500 It's it's that they usually are the ones that should have 735 00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:15,000 nothing to worry about. Like if we're going based off of 736 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,700 Kellen, I know he won't no longer fits this narrative. 737 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,900 He was 220 pounds. Roughly. 738 00:40:19,900 --> 00:40:22,400 I usually do I put 10 yeah, a bouncer. 739 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,000 Yeah, and he had an interest in the gym. 740 00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:27,600 Yeah, so why do people lie for that? 741 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:28,600 Resk? Right. 742 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,200 So if his life was at risk, you'd put up a fight, you know, 743 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,500 full of adrenaline, someone trying to take them, no need to 744 00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:35,900 be able to, you know, it's a lot harder taking someone that's 220 745 00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:38,300 than a 100 pounds. Exactly. 746 00:40:39,100 --> 00:40:41,600 And that's one of the weird aspects about the, you know, the 747 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,100 missing men cases and specifically, in some of the 748 00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:47,000 stranger ones that we'll get into later in the series. 749 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,500 Is that how were they like, it's on them. 750 00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:53,900 Just pure like abductions. Like there was a one in newest 751 00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:57,900 Minister. His car was found car door 752 00:40:57,900 --> 00:41:02,000 opened no sign of struggle. So how do you physically get 753 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,600 someone out of their car? Right. 754 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,500 You felt without a struggle that means you have to in my opinion. 755 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,000 I always thought well someone may be impersonating a cop, 756 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,600 right? I caught you get like a shining 757 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,200 a light and face please step outside better the dog. 758 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,200 You know what I mean? You're in specially, you know 759 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,200 someone, you know, thinking it's a cop, they will be if you 760 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,400 disobey, or in trouble, right? You know. 761 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,800 Yes. They've been lured somehow yeah. 762 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,500 Yeah. It has a has that aspect, right? 763 00:41:30,100 --> 00:41:32,400 The other. The other thing is to the other 764 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,300 second way of how do you, how do you get? 765 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,800 You get a big dudes, cooperation, a female, right? 766 00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:41,900 Hey girl, she likes you, she wants, she's coming over, she 767 00:41:41,900 --> 00:41:43,600 wants to meet you, you know what I mean? 768 00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:48,200 Play it was ego the Honey Trap and that's why I'm for the the 769 00:41:50,100 --> 00:41:53,400 that's why I I understand I'm going to look at I'm gonna look 770 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,700 at the video again and I'll post a video but I truly believe that 771 00:41:57,700 --> 00:42:01,800 was a female. Yeah, I agree just based on the 772 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,200 mannerisms and then also the facts, right? 773 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,300 Like who's going to learn this big guy out of his apartment or 774 00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:09,400 go to the apartment to get this big guy? 775 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,300 Most likely going to be a female, right? 776 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:13,900 Yeah. I'll be a lot easier, right? 777 00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:14,900 Less threat. Nothing. 778 00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:18,100 Oh you know who's afraid of a little girl, right? 779 00:42:18,700 --> 00:42:21,700 Yeah, exactly. So yeah we're going to continue 780 00:42:21,700 --> 00:42:23,700 on this series. Going to look at some of the 781 00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:27,600 stranger. I feel that some of these cases. 782 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,400 These men were lured. Well, maybe we'll get into maybe 783 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,700 some theories, but yeah, there's some really troubling cases and 784 00:42:33,700 --> 00:42:36,400 you did bring up something. Like these cases, tend to get 785 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,900 overlooked and I want to address that because generally speaking, 786 00:42:39,900 --> 00:42:42,500 right? It's like when women go missing, 787 00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:45,000 they think all something terrible happens was probably 788 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,500 abducted, maybe sexual assault, maybe murder. 789 00:42:47,500 --> 00:42:48,900 Right, because that's her first fear. 790 00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:52,300 Oh my God, this woman's missing or abducted or a child, right? 791 00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:55,900 With with, with young men they always say oh misadventure. 792 00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:57,600 That's the first thing people think, right? 793 00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,400 Oh, they're probably doing something stupid, something 794 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,700 drinking or some kind of tomfoolery or whatever. 795 00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:05,700 Right? So the men don't really get that 796 00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:10,500 same kind of initial like sympathy when they go missing 797 00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:15,100 and and and unfortunately too, when I see like older men, go 798 00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:18,300 missing like middle-aged typically it's suicide but they 799 00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:19,400 don't, you know, it's a different. 800 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,600 This is a different criteria and It with these young guys. 801 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,500 Yeah, they deserve it because the, you know, they weren't and 802 00:43:26,500 --> 00:43:28,400 in some of these cases. They weren't involved in 803 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,900 anything and you know, and it is must be very tragic for their 804 00:43:31,900 --> 00:43:34,200 family because think about this, right? 805 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,500 Think about if you had a bad kid a kid that just drove you nuts 806 00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:41,600 in and out of juvie and another jail, you know, just being a 807 00:43:41,700 --> 00:43:44,300 total headache and then something terrible half. 808 00:43:44,300 --> 00:43:46,900 So dude, be awful and you feel terrible because they do. 809 00:43:46,900 --> 00:43:49,400 But he had such a troubled life. But matter, if you have a 810 00:43:49,408 --> 00:43:51,500 perfect kid, that does everything right? 811 00:43:51,500 --> 00:43:55,200 And goes to school, Cool and on his way for a great, you know, 812 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,600 career or a great life and then one day, this kid just 813 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,300 disappears off the face of the Earth. 814 00:44:00,300 --> 00:44:03,200 Like I can't imagine what that's like for the family and my heart 815 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,200 goes out to them and they have my, my Ampitheatre for that, 816 00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:10,600 that loss. So, yeah, these these men 817 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,400 deserve justice and they deserve to be talked about as well, 818 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,900 right? Like everybody's story deserves 819 00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:18,500 to be heard if they've gone missing and these families 820 00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:21,500 deserve to know what happened to their to their missing loved 821 00:44:21,500 --> 00:44:23,300 ones, right? For sure. 822 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,600 Well, thank you Ryan, I appreciate this. 823 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,900 It will keep going on this. I appreciate your help and 824 00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:29,900 stuff. And yeah, I'm looking for doing 825 00:44:29,900 --> 00:44:31,900 also to we're talking. We're talking about doing some 826 00:44:31,900 --> 00:44:34,000 safety stuff. You know, you're involved in 827 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,200 self-defense Jiu Jitsu and and I really want to encourage, you 828 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,600 know, special people your age or anyone's age to get involved in 829 00:44:40,607 --> 00:44:42,500 that stuff because we'll be good for you, good, for your 830 00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:44,600 self-esteem and stuff. So, I'm happy that you're 831 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,800 involved in that and it's been great working with you. 832 00:44:48,300 --> 00:44:51,100 Yeah, thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it, it's 833 00:44:51,100 --> 00:44:52,300 awesome. Working with you as well. 834 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,000 All right. Ryan, you take care. 835 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,700 I'll add this up and I'll get this up as fast as I can. 836 00:44:58,100 --> 00:44:59,700 Awesome. Thanks, Mark, I appreciate it.