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For over a year now, I've been 
immersed in the horrors of the 

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Robert Pickton case. 
It has consumed me in ways I 

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could have never have imagined. 
When I first started, I knew the

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story was dark, complex, and 
disturbing, but nothing could 

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have prepared me for the toll it
would take on my mind, my heart,

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and even my spirit. 
Trying to unravel this nightmare

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has made me question not only my
understanding of the world, but 

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my own sanity at times. 
The deeper I went, the more I 

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felt the weight of it all 
pressing down on me, like I was 

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descending into an abyss from 
which I wasn't sure if I could 

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ever emerge. 
Sometimes I imagine this project

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is a message in a bottle, cast 
adrift in the vast, unforgiving 

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sea of the digital world. 
Maybe someday, long after I'm 

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gone, someone will uncork this 
bottle and hear these words and 

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understand not just what 
happened, but why it matters. 

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Maybe they'll see that this 
wasn't all in vain. 

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But this isn't about my effort. 
No, it's about society that 

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allowed a man like Robert Picton
to prey on its most vulnerable 

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for years. 
A society that, even after his 

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capture, has continued to spiral
into more violence and more 

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addiction, more pain. 
A city that once was my home is 

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now unrecognizable. 
And in its darkness, Vancouver's

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Downtown Eastside, this place, 
this environment was more than 

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just a setting for Picton's 
crime. 

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It was a predator's playground, 
a place where the marginalized 

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were abandoned, left to fend for
themselves while the city and 

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its leadership turned a blind 
eye. 

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And in that environment, someone
like Picton thrived. 

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It's hard to believe how long it
went on, how many voices were 

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silent before anyone really paid
attention. 

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As I research this case, I often
feel like Captain Ahab chasing 

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Moby Dick. 
If you're not familiar with Moby

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Dick, it's a story of a ship's 
captain obsessed with capturing 

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a monstrous white whale. 
The creature that seems beyond 

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human comprehension, Captain 
Ahab, becomes consumed by this 

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obsession to the point where it 
destroys him. 

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I won't lie, there were moments 
where I felt just as lost, just 

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as desperate, chasing after the 
truth behind Picton's reign of 

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terror. 
The more I dug in the details, 

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the more elusive they became. 
Moby Dick wasn't just a whale. 

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And this case isn't just about a
single man. 

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It's about everything that 
allowed it to happen. 

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It's about a community, a system
and a culture that turned a 

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blind eye. 
It's about a country that failed

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to protect its most vulnerable 
and still hasn't learned from 

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those failures. 
I've worked. 

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On massive, complex projects in 
my life, corporate sales, large 

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accounts, multimillion dollar 
deals, I dealt with highly 

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intricate negotiations with 
little details that could make 

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or break everything. 
But nothing, nothing has ever 

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challenged me like this. 
The mountain of evidence, the 

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horrifying testimonies, the 
broken families. 

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And at times, it was too much. 
There are moments when I wanted 

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to give up, to walk away from it
all because I was overwhelmed by

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the sheer magnitude of pain and 
darkness I was trying to 

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comprehend. 
I rewrote this project over and 

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over. 
I think I'm on my 30 once 

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revision questioning if I was 
even capable of telling the 

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story in a way that would do 
justice to the victims. 

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But I couldn't abandon it. 
I kept thinking about the women,

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the victims and the families who
were still waiting for answers. 

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Soul. 
Waiting for justice. 

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And I thought about the 
environment They lived in, the 

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Downtown Eastside, a place 
overrun with drugs, predators 

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and corruption. 
A place where people disappear 

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and no one seems to care. 
As the Picton case unfolded, it 

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revealed the darker truths about
my hometown. 

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The rise of gangsterism, the web
of criminal organizations, the 

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trafficking, the money 
laundering. 

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People living in the shadows of 
both legitimate society and the 

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criminal underworld. 
This wasn't just the work of one

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evil man, This is the 
culmination of years of neglect,

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of leadership, failures, of a 
broken system. 

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I'm not here to offer excuses or
easy answers. 

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I'm here to show you how we got 
here. 

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To be clear, this isn't just an 
exploration of the forensic 

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details of the case, though 
there are plenty. 

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It's about the dark psychology, 
the environment, the city that 

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allowed Robert Picton to operate
for so long. 

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I believe that Vancouver's 
leadership and its judicial 

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system and its failure to 
protect its most marginalized 

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citizens played a critical role.
Without that toxic environment, 

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Picton wouldn't have been able 
to do what he did, at least not 

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as easy and not for so long. 
And that's what's even more 

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heartbreaking. 
Since these atrocities took 

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place, the situation in the 
Downtown Eastside has only 

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gotten worse. 
I'm going to take you through 

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the history of the city, of the 
crime, the key players involved,

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because this story is not just 
about the past, it's about the 

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present, the criminality, the 
drugs, the violence. 

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It hasn't gone away, it's only 
evolved. 

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And the victims, the ones who 
still live in the shadows of our

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society, are still suffering 
more disappearances, more deaths

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and a system that continues to 
fail them. 

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This is my message in a bottle 
cast into an endless sea. 

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In this section, I'll be 
exploring the environment of 

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1990s Vancouver, a time when 
criminal organizations began to 

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thrive and the city witnessed a 
surge in drug trafficking, 

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assassination, shootings, and 
public killings. 

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While the segment will focus on 
the 90s, I'll also highlight key

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criminal events from that era to
the present day. 

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This historical overview will 
help bring you up to speed and 

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provide context for where I'm 
coming from as we dive deeper 

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into these topics. 
A metaphor I like to use when 

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thinking about how we consume 
information is the evolution of 

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media. 
In the early days of news, we 

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lived in a 2D world. 
This was the era of print 

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newspapers. 
With headline news and articles,

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readers would get a flat, 2 
dimensional perspective on 

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events, often shaped by the 
skills of the writer and the 

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viewpoints of the editors and 
even the political leanings of 

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the publication. 
Then came television, which 

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added a third dimension. 
At first it was black and white,

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then color, providing more 
visual depth to news stories. 

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However, however, television was
still curated and controlled by 

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editors, producers and networks.
What viewers saw was often 

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shaped by what these gatekeepers
wanted them to see. 

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Biases and editorial opinions 
still colored the news. 

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In the 1990's. 
The Internet arrived, and I call

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this the 4D world. 
The Internet allowed for 

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interactions with content in a 
way that print and television 

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never could. 
It combined the elements of both

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text like print and video like 
TV, but added a critical new 

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element, the user. 
We became the 4th dimension, 

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interacting with content, 
searching for information that 

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suits our taste, creating our 
own narratives. 

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However, with this came the rise
of quote UN quote fake news, as 

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well as the ability to cherry 
pick information to fit one's 

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biases. 
I've been involved in Internet 

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technology since its inception, 
working in IT software for over 

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20 years. 
Over the last five years, 

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especially since the pandemic, 
I've noticed an alarming 

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increase in censorship. 
The Internet is now heavily 

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controlled in what we can see 
and share. 

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For example, in Canada, you 
can't share news articles on 

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social media platforms like 
Meta, which has been incredibly 

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frustrating for someone like me 
who relies on Instagram to share

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important stories. 
The media has been surprisingly 

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quiet about it, despite how it 
affects the bottom line. 

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For example, CTV News, one of 
the large outlets in Canada, is 

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currently operating at a loss at
$40 million a year. 

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And it's important to note as 
most people under 40 get their 

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News Online. 
Looking forward, I want to 

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induce the idea of the 5th 
dimensional world. 

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An invisible world we don't see.
This is the world of secrets, 

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classified information and 
hidden agendas. 

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It is controlled by the puppet 
masters, the ones that pull the 

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strings behind the scenes. 
We rarely get a glimpse into 

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this world, but occasionally 
events like the Jeffrey Epstein 

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case pulls back the curtain just
a little bit. 

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These are the power players who 
influence the laws, markets, and

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even major criminal cases. 
Many would call this a 

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conspiracy, but it's important 
to remember that in legal terms,

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a conspiracy simply refers to an
agreement between two people to 

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commit a crime. 
In this series, we'll be 

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discussing this invisible world 
in how it shapes the criminal 

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landscape. 
For example, someone like Robert

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Pickton couldn't have operated 
as he did without the 

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environment in which he thrived,
an environment shaped by 

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organized crime. 
One of the central themes of the

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series is the overlap between 
the legitimate and the criminal 

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worlds. 
There are people with one foot 

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in both worlds, those who 
benefit from money laundering, 

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drug trafficking, and legitimate
businesses. 

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This extends into politics, law 
enforcement, and the courts, 

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creating a complex, invisible 
web that is hard to untangle and

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even dangerous to fully expose. 
Growing up in Vancouver, the 

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city was relatively peaceful. 
The general advice was simple, 

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don't go where the troublemakers
go and you'll stay out of harm's

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way. 
However, something shifted in 

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the 90s, creating a vacuum that 
attracted organized crime. 

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Changes in laws, the structure 
of the justice system and other 

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factors may have played a a 
role. 

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Like businesses and banks that 
move to tax havens for financial

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advantages, criminals gravitate 
to places that offer leniency. 

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In my opinion, British Columbia,
with its backlog courts and 

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overwhelmed Crown prosecutors, 
has become such a place. 

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Charges aren't laid unless 
there's a high likelihood of 

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conviction, leaving room for 
subjectivity and delays, much to

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the frustration of victims 
seeking justice. 

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This series is a product of 
three years of research and a 

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year of intensive writing. 
I revised at multiple times, 

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always seeking the best way to 
tell the story without 

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overwhelming you with grim 
facts. 

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My goal is to intrigue you, to 
spark curiosity, and to 

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encourage you to think about the
unseen dimensions of these 

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events. 
Just as we barely scratched the 

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surface with the Epstein case, 
there are always layers beneath 

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the story that change our 
understanding. 

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Running this platform has 
introduced me to incredible 

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people, pH, DS, doctors, 
producers, and highly 

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intelligent individuals. 
At the same time, I've 

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00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:08,520
encountered those who blindly 
accept their servitude, who go 

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along with the system without 
question. 

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Aldous Huxley, the author of 
Brave New World, warned about a 

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future where people are made to 
love their servitude, A world 

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where dictatorship comes without
tears and people willingly 

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00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,560
surrendering their freedoms for 
bread and circuses. 

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For my younger listeners, Huxley
was a British philosopher and 

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writer most famous for Brave New
World, a dystopian novel that 

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explores a society controlled 
through the pressures of 

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consumption and distraction. 
His work is increasingly 

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00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:57,080
relevant today as we see people 
willingly give up their 

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00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,600
freedoms, distracted by endless 
entertainment and propaganda. 

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What has shocked me the most in 
recent years is the number of 

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00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:12,800
people who enjoy this servitude,
lashing out at anyone who dares 

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00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:17,040
questions the narrative. 
I've had followers for years who

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00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,720
support my work on missing 
persons and community awareness,

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00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,920
but one post that doesn't align 
with their views. 

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I'm hit with the accusation of 
being a a right wing extremists,

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a Nazi or worse. 
Some people seem more interested

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in talking me than seeking 
understanding, which is why I 

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00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,760
want to emphasize that 
understanding is key. 

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To explain, imagine installing a
new appliance in your home, say 

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00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,440
of a very heavy stove. 
You would just drop it in place 

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00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,240
without checking if the floor 
can support it. 

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00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,600
You would go underneath the 
floor below, examine the 

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00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,280
foundation, and make sure it's 
sturdy enough. 

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This is understanding what I aim
to do with these stories, help 

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you look underneath the surface 
and see what's supporting these 

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00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,440
events we hear about. 
Not everyone will agree with me,

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00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:21,480
and that's fine. 
My hope is is to reach the one 

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00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,840
person who's ready to carry the 
torch, to do more research and 

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00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,480
to make a real difference in 
this complex world. 

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Vancouver, with its stunning 
landscapes and bustling economy,

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hides a darker story beneath its
surface. 

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Over the past few decades, the 
city has become a fertile ground

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for the intersection of 
legitimate business and 

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00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,760
organized crime, where the lines
between fast money gang activity

230
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,320
and financial fraud blur. 
The seeds of corruptions planted

231
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,520
in the 1990s are now visible in 
the violence that spills onto 

232
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,880
the streets today. 
An underworld built on the 

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00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,400
profits, drug trafficking, money
laundering, and an unchecked 

234
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,440
real estate boom. 
And this chapter unravels the 

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00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,319
twisted connections between 
organized crime and the rise of 

236
00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:13,319
wealth in Metro Vancouver. 
The infamous Picton brothers, 

237
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:16,480
whose sudden riches from real 
estate sales shielded their 

238
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,800
terrific crimes. 
We'll also explore the murders 

239
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,000
of stockbrokers, the 
disappearances of Nick and Lisa 

240
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,400
Massey, and the brazen 
assassination that point to a 

241
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,480
deeper, more insidious web of 
corruption involving gangs and 

242
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,240
white collar criminals. 
In this tangled web of gang 

243
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,800
violence and drug trafficking 
and money laundering run 

244
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:44,000
alongside legitimate businesses,
the same fortunes that flowed 

245
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,240
into the city penthouses have 
been funneled through Vancouver 

246
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,640
streets, tainting both legal 
enterprises and the growing 

247
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:57,200
criminal empire. 
It's in this murky landscape 

248
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,760
that Vancouver's present day 
chaos took root. 

249
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:06,560
From the rise of biker gangs and
a drug trade, to the mysterious 

250
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:11,040
disappearances and sassinations 
that followed, the consequences 

251
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,480
of this toxic blend of greed, 
violence echo through the Lower 

252
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,040
Mainland, shaping the city we 
see today. 

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00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,720
This is the story of Vancouver's
hidden underworld, where money, 

254
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,040
crime and chaos collided. 
I've always been fascinated by 

255
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,120
the underground economy in Metro
Vancouver, my hometown. 

256
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,920
Growing up here, I've 
encountered some pretty 

257
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:37,240
intimidating individuals, some 
whom became high profile 

258
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,840
criminals. 
I always knew there was a shadow

259
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:47,600
economy, one that might rival 
the legitimate 1, specially drug

260
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,160
trafficking. 
Cannabis cultivation in the 90s 

261
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,800
has played a huge role in 
Vancouver's economy. 

262
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,960
At its peak, the cannabis trade 
was worth $7 billion. 

263
00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:02,640
My work in nightclubs across 
Canada, British Columbia, 

264
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,960
Alberta, New Brunswick, Ontario,
Nova Scotia exposed me first 

265
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,200
hand to the underworld. 
Every club I worked at had some 

266
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,600
connection to organized crime. 
In Vancouver the first club 

267
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,680
which no longer exists was 
particularly terrifying. 

268
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,000
It was run by a multi ethnic 
group with cartels and Indo 

269
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,200
Canadian gang ties. 
These were people you did not 

270
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,080
want to cross. 
At one point I worked at Club 

271
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,320
Paradise, the newest minister 
which has recently burnt out in 

272
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,200
the last few years. 
It was known for shootings. 

273
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,560
I remember one night meeting 
Bindi Johaled, a notorious 

274
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,800
gangster. 
His crew showed up and gave 

275
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,920
someone a vicious beating right 
in front of everyone. 

276
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,200
Few months later they came back 
and shot someone in the club. 

277
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,800
I wasn't there that night having
to call in sick but but it 

278
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,840
really brought home how 
dangerous these circles were. 

279
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,240
In that same club I worked with 
a Persian gangster who was a 

280
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,040
massive bodybuilder. 
Seemed like a chill guy. 

281
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,520
Few years later I saw him on the
news for being involved in a. 

282
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,320
Mass of large scale cocaine 
operation at the Vancouver 

283
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,760
waterfront. 
It shocked me because at the 

284
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,400
time we just talked about 
bodybuilding, boxing, MMA. 

285
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,720
Had no clue about his other 
dealings. 

286
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,600
One thing was always clear, if 
he got involved in their 

287
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,800
business and made a mistake or 
if he talked too much, you're 

288
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,640
going to get hurt. 
But not just a slap on the 

289
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,280
wrist, I mean seriously hurt. 
I knew a guy who was part of a 

290
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,920
pretty serious crew and did time
for armored car robbery. 

291
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,680
He told me some pretty hair 
raising stories like how one 

292
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,440
other crew members ratted on 
them which led to some of them 

293
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,880
getting locked up. 
In retaliation they kidnapped 

294
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,920
this guy, took him to a remote 
cabin where they drilled out his

295
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,480
kneecaps. 
Hearing that from someone 

296
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,160
directly, stories I once thought
were just urban legend was a 

297
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,320
wake up call. 
These aren't people who just 

298
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,560
make threats. 
They'll shoot you in public, 

299
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,960
they'll torture you, they'll 
beat you within an inch of your 

300
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,080
life. 
Fear is our currency. 

301
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,280
They don't care if you don't 
like them, they want you to fear

302
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,760
them. 
If you're going to run your 

303
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,840
mouth or point fingers without 
really knowing what's going on, 

304
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:23,080
the consequences are deadly. 
For those who casually consume 

305
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,600
true crime as entertainment, 
there's a layer of disconnect. 

306
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,680
But for me, telling these 
stories comes with a huge 

307
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:35,120
responsibility, not about 
getting someone hurt or killed 

308
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:38,640
over something I said. 
That's why I'm careful, and I 

309
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,960
hope you respect that. 
I've known people who ended up 

310
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:48,360
on the wrong side of bad deals, 
some were lucky just to survive 

311
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:51,080
with a beating. 
One gangster I knew had a 

312
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,920
reputation of using ball peam 
hammers during beat downs and if

313
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,400
you got in trouble with someone 
like him the police couldn't 

314
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,600
help much. 
It's not even really their 

315
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,080
fault, the system itself is 
flawed. 

316
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,240
These criminals often have near 
impunity and the only way they 

317
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,880
get caught is if they mess up on
camera. 

318
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,800
No one wants to testify against 
them in court. 

319
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,200
For those outside of BC, it's 
important to understand that the

320
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,360
police here don't lay charges, 
The Crown counsel does. 

321
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,760
The police gather evidence, but 
it's the Crown who decides 

322
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,800
whether to proceed. 
Often charges are dropped or 

323
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,480
stayed. 
And some pretty top notch 

324
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,440
lawyers in BC know exactly how 
to navigate the system. 

325
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,800
It's a double edged sword. 
On one hand it protects the 

326
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,440
innocent, but on the other it 
allows career criminals to 

327
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,000
exploit loopholes. 
When I first started this 

328
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,840
platform, I wanted to cover the 
2008 gang war in Vancouver. 

329
00:22:56,360 --> 00:23:02,440
By 2019, I was shocked to find 
that many of those involved were

330
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,640
still out dealing with appeals, 
retrials and drop charges. 

331
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,760
It's a broken system. 
I'm very aware of its strength 

332
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,920
and its weaknesses. 
I protect myself by being 

333
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,560
caution. 
I'm not here to name names or 

334
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,880
make accusations against 
powerful criminal organizations 

335
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,920
that are still act for my 
safety. 

336
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,920
Sometimes I change names or 
avoid mentioning certain 

337
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,040
details. 
The last thing I need is to 

338
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,040
anger someone who doesn't want 
their name associated with 

339
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,160
alleged criminal activity. 
BC might not be at the same 

340
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,080
level of cartel violence in 
Mexico, where journalists are 

341
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,400
regularly killed, but I'm not 
looking to make enemies of 

342
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,440
powerful people. 
My goal is to tell stories, 

343
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,680
explain complex situations, and 
educate my audience about the 

344
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,520
realities of organized crime. 
Well, integrating my own 

345
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,120
experiences and research for the
past year or so, Actually since 

346
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:08,120
about 2007, I've been diving 
deep into some disturbing cases.

347
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,640
I've gone down some pretty dark 
rabbit holes, especially in the 

348
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:16,000
realm of human trafficking and 
underage sex wings. 

349
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,680
These investigations have led me
to uncover connections of 

350
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,480
powerful people both locally and
internationally. 

351
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,200
It's a murky world, and as you 
dig deeper, you begin to see 

352
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,440
those same patterns. 
There are people with one foot 

353
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,560
in legitimate world and the 
other in organized crime. 

354
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,120
They can cover things up. 
They can make people disappear. 

355
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,200
They wield an incredible amount 
of influence. 

356
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,680
One case in particular hits 
close to home. 

357
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,880
There was a guy with a blog that
I initially dismiss as a 

358
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,440
rambling, as a quote UN quote 
conspiracy theorist. 

359
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:58,560
He wrote about a sex ring 
involving young teens, specially

360
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,720
Indigenous kids from local 
reserves, who were being lured 

361
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,200
to parties and then being abused
by wealthy men. 

362
00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:11,960
He also claimed to have been 
committed to mental hospitals 

363
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,160
under the Mental Health Act to 
discredit him. 

364
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,840
At first I thought it was 
delusion, maybe a carnal of 

365
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,920
truth buried under layers of 
paranoia. 

366
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,040
But then I remembered an old 
local TV show I used to watch 

367
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,880
called Da Vinci's Inquest. 
The show was based on the real 

368
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,680
life corner, Larry Campbell. 
It had a spin off where he 

369
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,800
became Mare. 
One of the storylines in the 

370
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,520
spin off closely mirrored what 
this ranting lunatic quote UN 

371
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,320
quote has been talking about. 
But the abusers being real 

372
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,880
estate developers? 
Strangely, I couldn't find these

373
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,280
episodes anymore. 
The reason why I bring this up 

374
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,240
is that many of the stories on 
Da Vinci and Quest were based on

375
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,400
real cases. 
It was the show that I first 

376
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,680
heard about The Boozing Barber, 
a man who murdered women by 

377
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:07,160
forcing them to drink to death. 
He targeted vulnerable women 

378
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,720
with drinking problems, making 
their deaths look like 

379
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,120
accidents. 
This was a chilling way to 

380
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:17,480
exploit their vulnerability, but
nearly a perfect way to get away

381
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,680
with serial murder. 
These stories are just a glimpse

382
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,240
of the dark reality that I've 
been researching and uncovering 

383
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,840
for my podcast. 
As much as I want to entertain 

384
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:34,760
and inform, I'm also very aware 
of the danger that comes with 

385
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,920
exploring these dark worlds. 
My goal is to shed light on why 

386
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,000
things are the way they are, 
while keeping myself and others 

387
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:50,720
safe in the process. 
In your Brave New World 

388
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,720
Revisited, which was published 
about two years ago, you did 

389
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,120
claim that much of what you 
forecast had come true. 

390
00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:00,640
I mean, for example, the the use
of drugs and, and this instance 

391
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,520
of people having their thoughts 
directed while they're asleep 

392
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,600
through music being played or 
messages being played through 

393
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,000
their pillows and so on. 
In which societies do you think 

394
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,080
that most of what you forecast 
has mostly come true? 

395
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,760
I mean, is it in America, 
Britain, Russia, China? 

396
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,560
Well, it seems to me this is not
so much you can't say that it's 

397
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:28,520
a question of national 
peculiarities or even entirely 

398
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,160
of political peculiarities. 
I mean, I think when the 

399
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,680
technological and applied 
scientific means are developed, 

400
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,280
they just tend to be used. 
I mean, I think 1 can say that 

401
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,000
the whole history of recent 
times in relation to science and

402
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,000
technology shows that if you 
plant the seed of applied 

403
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,520
science or technology, it 
proceeds to grow and it grows 

404
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,520
according to the laws of its own
being. 

405
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,320
And the laws of its being are 
not necessarily the same as the 

406
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:03,160
laws of our being. 
I mean, hence the this sense of 

407
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,720
which so many people have and 
which I think one sees in so 

408
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,480
many societies, the sense that 
man is being subjected to his 

409
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,960
own inventions, that he is now 
the victim of his own technology

410
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,480
and the victim of his own 
applied science instead of being

411
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,880
in control of it. 
How could he be in control of 

412
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,720
it? 
Well, this is the problem. 

413
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:29,640
I mean, I think this is perhaps 
one of the major problems of our

414
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,280
time. 
How do we make use of this 

415
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,600
thing? 
I mean, after all this was 

416
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,880
stated in the gospel, man, the 
Sabbath, was made for man and 

417
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,640
not man for the Sabbath. 
And in the same way, technology 

418
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,360
was made for man and not man for
technology. 

419
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,840
But unfortunately, the 
development of of recent social 

420
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,040
and scientific history has 
created a world in which man 

421
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,000
seems to be made for technology 
rather than the other way round,

422
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,840
and we have to start thinking 
about this problem very 

423
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,640
seriously and seeing how we can 
re establish control over our 

424
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,520
own inventions. 
But would you say then that that

425
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:14,680
America or Britain was as liable
to suffer from the arts of mass 

426
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,040
persuasion or or brainwashing, 
say, as dictatorial societies? 

427
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,600
Well, at the moment, 
fortunately, we have a, in both 

428
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,680
these countries, a considerable 
constitutional tradition which 

429
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,720
puts a brake on these kind of 
activities. 

430
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:37,840
I mean, for example, one of the 
ablest writers, it seems to me, 

431
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,960
on sociological problems is the 
French writer Professor Eliu, 

432
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:49,800
who views the difference between
the totalitarian, the Russian 

433
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,920
totalitarian, and the Western 
civilizations as being 

434
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,560
essentially a difference in the 
readiness to make use of 

435
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,960
technology immediately and to 
the limit. 

436
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:07,920
I mean, Engels from the first 
asserted that socialism would 

437
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,840
come through the use of 
technology to the limit. 

438
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,840
And the Russian regime has 
always been prepared to follow 

439
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,560
out the logic of technology. 
Whereas in the West, we still 

440
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,600
remember John Stuart Mill, James
Mill, Jefferson and so on, We 

441
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,360
still remember vaguely the 
precepts of Christianity. 

442
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:36,040
And we are a little reluctant to
embark upon technology, to allow

443
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,280
technology to take over. 
In the long run, we generally 

444
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,320
succumb. 
I mean, I'm reminded in this 

445
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:48,080
context of the the line in 
Baron's Don Juan about this lady

446
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,880
who vowing she would now 
consent, consented. 

447
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,960
And in the long run, we 
generally do consent to. 

448
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,560
I mean, but in the in the short 
run, we thought of higgle haggle

449
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:02,640
about it and we are reluctant 
to, but we tend to be pushed by 

450
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,240
the advancing technology in a 
certain direction, which I don't

451
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,080
find desirable. 
And I do think we have to start 

452
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,000
thinking very intensively about 
this problem and seeing how we 

453
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,160
can get control again of our 
invention. 

454
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,200
I mean, this is the kind of 
Frankenstein monster problem. 

455
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,800
I suppose that this rather 
frightful prospect comes about. 

456
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,800
I mean, are people going to be 
happy under this kind of regime?

457
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,520
Well, I think you could. 
I mean, this was one of the sort

458
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,640
of what I may call the messages 
of Brave New World, that it is 

459
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,760
possible to make people 
contented with their servitude. 

460
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,880
I think this can be done. 
I think it has been done in the 

461
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,760
past, but, and I think it could 
be done even more effectively 

462
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,200
now because you can provide them
with bread and circuses and you 

463
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,920
can provide them with endless 
amounts of distractions and 

464
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,560
propaganda. 
It all raises, I think so 

465
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,640
doesn't mean anyway that this 
question of how much one really 

466
00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,720
does value freedom or really how
free 1 feels oneself to be. 

467
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,760
I mean someone like myself, say,
was grown up since the war. 

468
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,080
I mean, do you believe that I am
less free than someone who was 

469
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,280
brought up in the 20s or in the 
80s of the century or in in the 

470
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,960
18th century? 
Well, it depends entirely who 

471
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,840
you were in the 80s or the last 
century or the OR the 18th 

472
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,200
century. 
I mean, if you were a country 

473
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,720
gentleman with an income, you 
were remarkably free, but if you

474
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,920
were a peasant on his estate, 
you were remarkably unfree. 

475
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:33,360
I mean, I seems to me the maybe 
the word freedom perhaps is too 

476
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,080
vague a term in this sort of 
context. 

477
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,400
I think what we have to ask is 
what sort of a of a social 

478
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,200
pattern and what sort of a 
political regime is best 

479
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,560
calculated to help the 
individuals within the society 

480
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,800
and to realize the maximum 
extent of their desirable 

481
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,640
potentialities. 
I mean, it's quite obvious that 

482
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,840
most of us are functioning at 
about 10% of capacity and that 

483
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,400
wouldn't it be nice if we could 
function at 20% instead of a 

484
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:04,640
10%. 
Do you have any? 

485
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,400
Clear idea of how this could be 
done, what kind of society it 

486
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,000
would be. 
Well, I I have ideas. 

487
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,280
I don't know whether they're 
varied or not. 

488
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,520
As a matter of fact, I've just 
finished a kind of utopian 

489
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,840
fantasy which is the opposite of
Brave New World, which is about 

490
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,640
a society in which a serious 
effort is made to help its 

491
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,200
members to realise their 
desirable potentialities. 

492
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,040
And I've gone into, I mean, this
is an attempt to write what may 

493
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,760
be called a practical utopia. 
To nothing is easier of course, 

494
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,040
than to, to enunciate ideals and
to say, well, wouldn't it be 

495
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,000
nice if everybody were good and 
kind and loving, et cetera, et 

496
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,160
cetera. 
Course it would be very nice. 

497
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,320
But the, the point is how do you
implement these ideals? 

498
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,120
How do you fulfil your good 
social and psychological 

499
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,440
intentions? 
And when you come down to this 

500
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:01,080
problem, you'll see it's a very 
complex problem of organising 

501
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,000
family life, organising 
education, organising sexual 

502
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,400
life, organizing social and 
economic life. 

503
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,040
I mean, there are endless 
factors involved in this. 

504
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:16,159
And to try to work out what all 
these factors should be is I 

505
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:19,719
must say I found a very 
interesting job as far as I was 

506
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,040
concerned. 
I don't know whether anybody 

507
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:33,480
else will find it interesting. 
All right, Hey, everyone, 

508
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,199
welcome back. 
We're we're going deep today. 

509
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:37,280
Oh yeah. 
Yeah. 

510
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,840
This is going to be intense. 
OK, We're looking at, well, 

511
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,960
we're using Moby Dick, Herman 
Melville's Moby Dick to help us 

512
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,360
understand something. 
A real life tragedy. 

513
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:47,800
Interesting. 
Yeah. 

514
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,360
The crimes of Robert Picton. 
Wow. 

515
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,960
OK, so I mean. 
No, right, You're probably 

516
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,920
thinking. 
Yeah, what does, How does a 

517
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,800
whale hunt fit into this? 
That's what we're going to 

518
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,280
explore. 
OK, we've got some analysis here

519
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,640
that uses Moby Dick as like a 
metaphor. 

520
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,120
And it gets. 
A metaphor for OK for the Picton

521
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,920
case. 
Yeah, like for understanding. 

522
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,480
Watch it this kind of darkness 
and trust me, it gets deep. 

523
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,280
Well, it's amazing how a novel 
written, you know, back in the 

524
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,400
1850s, right, can still be so 
relevant today. 

525
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,680
I know. 
And when you look at Moby Dick 

526
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,120
this way, I think we can start 
to think about some pretty big 

527
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:31,000
questions, like the nature of 
obsession, the limits of our 

528
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,240
knowledge, even how, you know, 
how society responds to these 

529
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:37,840
really horrific acts. 
Exactly. 

530
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,240
And one of the things that 
really jumps out right away is 

531
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:43,960
Captain Ahab. 
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 

532
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,280
This guy is completely fixated, 
Oh yeah on hunting Moby Dick to 

533
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,520
the point where it destroys him.
Yeah, classic example of 

534
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:53,640
obsession. 
Yes, yeah. 

535
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:59,320
Taken to a dangerous extreme, 
and the analysis uses Ahab as 

536
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,080
like almost a warning for us 
today. 

537
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,280
You know, think about it. 
We all have our own white 

538
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:05,560
whales. 
Oh, OK, yeah. 

539
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,520
Those challenges or those 
mysteries, Yeah, that just they 

540
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,880
consume our thoughts. 
But what happens when that 

541
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,440
pursuit of the white whale, or 
that answer, or that whatever it

542
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,840
is right, takes over everything 
else in our lives? 

543
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,480
It's like, yeah, you think about
the Picton case, like the desire

544
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,240
to understand how someone could 
do something so horrific, right?

545
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:27,240
It's totally understandable to 
want those answers. 

546
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:29,040
Yeah. 
But is there a point when that 

547
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,280
search becomes like its own 
obsession? 

548
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,720
That's such a good point, and 
the analysis makes a really 

549
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:37,040
interesting connection there. 
It draws a parallel between 

550
00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:43,920
Ahab's pursuit, his relentless 
pursuit, and the way we approach

551
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,040
these kinds of cases. 
Sometimes there's a risk, right?

552
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,920
We get so caught up in finding 
those answers that we lose sight

553
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,240
of something the human cost. 
Oh wow. 

554
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,640
And remember how Ahab he 
completely disregards his crew? 

555
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:01,960
Right. 
In his single minded pursuit of 

556
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,840
the whale. 
Yeah, that's, wow. 

557
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,880
That's a powerful image. 
It is. 

558
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,760
And I feel like we've seen that,
Oh yeah happen in real life. 

559
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,160
Sadly, yeah. 
Too right cases where the 

560
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,720
pursuit of justice becomes so 
intense, the ethical. 

561
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:18,800
The ethical lines get crossed. 
And the analysis, you know, 

562
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,280
argues that Moby Dick, it's like
almost a cautionary tale for us.

563
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,800
It reminds us that even when 
we're dealing with, you know, 

564
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,000
something as important as 
justice, we can't let that 

565
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,360
pursuit right come at the 
expense of compassion and 

566
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:33,720
empathy. 
Yeah, totally. 

567
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:35,840
But it's not just about 
individual obsession, is it? 

568
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,120
No, you're right. 
It's like this whale, this 

569
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,680
darkness. 
Yeah, it represents something 

570
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,280
much bigger. 
Oh, absolutely. 

571
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,320
Yeah. 
And Moby Dick, you know, the 

572
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,000
white whales, not just an 
animal, it symbolizes these 

573
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,960
vast, these unknowable forces in
the universe. 

574
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,160
And the analysis brings this to 
the Picton case. 

575
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,920
It suggests that these crimes, 
they represent a kind of 

576
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:04,520
societal Moby Dick, right? 
This thing that is so horrific 

577
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,960
that it's difficult to 
comprehend. 

578
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,560
So are we saying that some 
things are just like beyond our 

579
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,600
grasp even with all the 
investigation in? 

580
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:14,960
The world we may never 
understand. 

581
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,920
It's a really profound question.
Yeah, that comes up, and it 

582
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,720
connects directly to this idea 
of the whale as a symbol of the 

583
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,840
unknowable. 
Yeah, Melville, he writes about 

584
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,320
this intangible malignity of the
whale. 

585
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,440
You know, the sense that it 
represents this darkness that we

586
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,760
can never fully comprehend. 
And isn't that something we 

587
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:36,880
grapple with? 
Yeah. 

588
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,600
In cases like Picton's, the 
sheer scale of the evil 

589
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,320
involved, it's almost, it's 
almost beyond. 

590
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:48,360
Beyond our ability to process. 
You know, that that line about 

591
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,640
intangible malignity, it really 
gets to me because it's like, 

592
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,640
even if we were to uncover every
single detail of this case, 

593
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,280
there's still this, this core of
darkness that we may never, 

594
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:01,800
ever. 
Fully grasp. 

595
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,440
Grasp. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

596
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,680
And that's really unsettling. 
It is, and the analysis says 

597
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,120
maybe. 
Maybe that's OK. 

598
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,440
Maybe the point isn't to conquer
the darkness, to fully 

599
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:17,200
understand it, but to learn to 
like, navigate it, to find a way

600
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,360
to seek justice and 
understanding without losing 

601
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,600
ourselves in the process. 
Yes, like we're being challenged

602
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,200
here to find like a different 
way of approaching these kinds 

603
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,240
of cases, like not just focusing
on The Who and the what, but the

604
00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:33,480
why, even if those answers. 
Right, the why? 

605
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,400
Are like elusive. 
Yeah, exactly. 

606
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,400
And maybe like you said. 
Yeah, it's OK to just sort of 

607
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,040
sit with the uncertainty for a 
while. 

608
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:46,040
The analysis actually connects 
us back to Moby Dick, to the 

609
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,120
whole idea of accepting our 
limitations. 

610
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,960
Yeah, part of Ahab downfall was 
that he just refused to 

611
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,720
acknowledge that some things he 
couldn't control. 

612
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,360
You know, he was so driven by 
revenge that he ignored 

613
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:00,520
anything. 
Wow. 

614
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,200
They contradicted his worldview.
So are we saying that we should 

615
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,200
just give up? 
No. 

616
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:07,560
No. 
On seeking justice? 

617
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,600
Not at all. 
Like in a case like Picton's? 

618
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,200
No. 
It's not about giving up on 

619
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,760
justice, but I think it's about 
finding a more balanced 

620
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,320
approach. 
The analysis emphasizes this, 

621
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,320
that seeking justice and 
offering compassion. 

622
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,960
They're not mutually exclusive, 
OK? 

623
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:26,320
In fact, they should go hand in 
hand. 

624
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,800
OK, yeah, Remember Ahab? 
He's the main character, right? 

625
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,720
But the real tragedy, yeah, is 
how his obsession impacts 

626
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:36,120
everyone around him, right? 
His crew suffers, innocent 

627
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,080
people die, all because he just 
can't let go. 

628
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,440
Wow. 
Of this niche for revenge. 

629
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,120
It's like he becomes a 
perpetrator. 

630
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,360
Himself almost, in a way, yeah. 
Yeah, even though his original 

631
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,040
intentions might have been, you 
know, whatever. 

632
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,520
It's, it's a chilling thought, 
yeah. 

633
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,280
Especially when you apply it to,
to real life, you know, to the 

634
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,160
Picton case. 
We can't let the pursuit of 

635
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,360
justice create more victims. 
Exactly the. 

636
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,560
Analysis argues that compassion 
needs to be like a guiding 

637
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,320
principle. 
Here, it's about recognizing the

638
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,360
human cost of these crimes, 
Yeah, Not just for the victims, 

639
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,080
right, But for their families, 
for their communities, right? 

640
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,640
Even society as a whole. 
Yeah, OK. 

641
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,440
I'm starting to see how this all
fits together. 

642
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,400
Yeah, But how do we like, how do
we actually put this into 

643
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,240
practice? 
How do we balance this need for 

644
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:27,720
justice with this this call for 
compassion? 

645
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:30,600
Well, one way is to kind of 
shift our focus a little bit 

646
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,400
from punishment to 
understanding, OK. 

647
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:36,440
The analysis suggests that 
instead of just seeking 

648
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,520
retribution, maybe we should 
also be asking what are the 

649
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:44,800
underlying social factors that 
contribute to these crimes? 

650
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,760
Yeah, Yeah. 
What can we do to address those 

651
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,560
issues right to prevent future 
tragedies? 

652
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,640
So it's about looking at the 
bigger picture, not just this 

653
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,560
individual case, but the context
that happened in absolutely and 

654
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,600
using that knowledge to to 
create change. 

655
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:01,480
Exactly. 
Exactly. 

656
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,040
And Moby Dick offers some 
interesting insights here, too. 

657
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,880
Remember how the novel explores 
the brutal nature of the whaling

658
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,600
industry? 
Melville. 

659
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,880
He wasn't just telling a story. 
He was also commenting on the 

660
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:19,320
social and economic forces that 
drove men to this dangerous, 

661
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,440
destructive work. 
In a way, the Picton case forces

662
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,920
us to ask those same questions 
about our own society. 

663
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,080
What are the systems and 
structures that might contribute

664
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,440
to violence? 
Wow to exploitation. 

665
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,680
I never thought about Moby Dick 
that way before. 

666
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,320
Yeah. 
It's like, it's like the novel's

667
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,200
holding up a mirror to our own 
society and forcing us to 

668
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,120
confront some some uncomfortable
truths. 

669
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:45,080
Right. 
Yeah. 

670
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,120
About ourselves. 
That's the power of great 

671
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,520
literature, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

672
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,080
It transcends time and place, 
and it speaks to these universal

673
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:53,160
truths. 
Yeah. 

674
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,680
About. 
About about the human condition.

675
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,560
It's making me think about the 
victim case in a whole new way. 

676
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:01,480
Yeah, it's not just about one 
man's crimes, right? 

677
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:06,080
It's about the larger social 
forces exactly that allowed 

678
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,280
those crimes to happen and and 
our responsibility. 

679
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,240
And our responsibility. 
To address those. 

680
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:14,080
And that's where compassion 
comes back into play, right? 

681
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,280
OK. 
It's about recognizing that 

682
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,720
we're all part of this complex 
web. 

683
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:21,720
Yeah. 
Of relationships and systems. 

684
00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:25,600
Our actions, they have 
consequences, both intended and 

685
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:26,320
unintended. 
Right. 

686
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,800
And if we want to create a more 
just world, yeah. 

687
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,840
A more compassionate world. 
Yeah, we have. 

688
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,600
To understand our own role. 
Right in these systems. 

689
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,360
So are you saying we all bear 
some responsibility? 

690
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,800
Well, I think it's not about 
blame, OK? 

691
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,640
Or guilt, right? 
It's about recognizing that 

692
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:50,040
we're all interconnected and 
that even small acts of 

693
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,880
compassion can have a ripple 
effect. 

694
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,000
You know, maybe that's 
volunteering at a shelter or 

695
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,360
donating to a Victim Support 
organization, or just having 

696
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,200
those difficult conversations 
with our friends and family 

697
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,840
about these very issues. 
Every action, no matter how 

698
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,480
small, it can contribute to that
more just and compassionate 

699
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,560
world. 
Yeah, it's like it's a powerful 

700
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,520
reminder, that chain, like it 
starts with each of us. 

701
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,680
But, you know, going back to the
analysis for a SEC, it asks us 

702
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,320
to think about our own white 
whales. 

703
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,680
Like, you know, what are those 
things we're just, like 

704
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,800
relentlessly pursuing? 
Yeah, maybe to our detriment. 

705
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:28,720
Like what do you, what do you 
think about that? 

706
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,120
That's such an interesting 
question. 

707
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,880
It's almost like the analysis 
wants us to turn that lens 

708
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,240
inward, you know? 
Yeah. 

709
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,520
Examine our own lives, our own 
motivations. 

710
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,720
What are the things that consume
us? 

711
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:42,160
Yeah. 
What are those issues or 

712
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,040
problems that we just feel like 
we have to solve? 

713
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,960
It really makes you think about 
the, like, the drive behind 

714
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,400
those pursuits, you know, Like, 
is it a genuine desire for 

715
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,960
understanding or is it more 
about, like, control? 

716
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,960
Yeah. 
Are we trying to fill some void 

717
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,760
maybe? 
It's a good question to ask 

718
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,000
ourselves, yeah. 
Especially because, just like 

719
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,560
Ahab, we can get so fixated on 
our own little pursuits. 

720
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:05,480
Right. 
Yeah. 

721
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:07,480
That we miss the bigger picture,
right? 

722
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:13,240
And sometimes that single 
mindedness, it leads to like 

723
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,520
unintended consequences. 
So how do we avoid Ahab's fate, 

724
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:18,440
then? 
That's a question. 

725
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,800
If we know the danger, how do we
pursue understanding and justice

726
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,360
without falling into that that 
destructive obsession? 

727
00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:30,000
I think the analysis gives us a 
really big clue. 

728
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:31,960
It all goes back to compassion, 
OK? 

729
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,960
Even when we're dealing with, 
you know, the darkest parts of 

730
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,960
human nature, right, there's 
still that fundamental need for 

731
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,600
empathy, Yeah. 
And for understanding. 

732
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,360
So it's about remembering our 
humanity, even in those really, 

733
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,560
like, difficult situations where
it's hard to find, you know, any

734
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,000
light. 
I think so. 

735
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,280
It's about approaching things 
with humility, recognizing our 

736
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:54,200
own limitations. 
Yep. 

737
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,480
You know, our understanding is 
always going to be limited. 

738
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:58,440
Yeah. 
And there's always more to 

739
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,360
learn, right? 
I think it also means being 

740
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:01,480
open. 
Yeah. 

741
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,360
To different perspectives, 
recognizing that there are 

742
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,440
multiple truths. 
Yeah, it's like we're talking 

743
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,760
about like a shift in 
perspective. 

744
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,840
Yeah. 
You know, moving away from this 

745
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,960
need to be right, to have all 
the answers and instead like 

746
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:21,240
focusing on creating space for 
empathy and for understanding. 

747
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:22,720
That's a beautiful way to put 
it. 

748
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,200
And I think that's where real 
healing, real progress can 

749
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,440
begin, not by conquering the 
darkness, but by acknowledging 

750
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:35,160
it and finding a way to navigate
it, you know, with compassion 

751
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:36,640
and wisdom. 
Yeah, I'm. 

752
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,120
I'm walking away from this deep 
dive with a lot to think about. 

753
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,400
Yeah. 
It's amazing how Moby Dick, this

754
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,440
novel written centuries ago, can
still be so powerful, you know, 

755
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,840
and offer such insights into 
like, the human condition. 

756
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,920
It really is a testament to the 
power of great literature, the 

757
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,280
themes of obsession, justice, 
the limits of knowledge. 

758
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,120
Right. 
They're as relevant today as 

759
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,080
they were back then. 
Yeah. 

760
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,600
And I think that's why Moby Dick
continues to resonate with 

761
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:03,840
people. 
Yeah, for sure. 

762
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,600
It's definitely definitely made 
me think about the Picton case 

763
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,840
in a new way. 
And honestly, it's challenged me

764
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:15,400
to look at my own life and my 
own pursuits with with the more 

765
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,240
I guess critical and 
compassionate eye. 

766
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,360
I think that's the best take 
away, yeah, we could hope for, 

767
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,160
yeah. 
Totally you. 

768
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,120
Know this deep dive is made even
1 listener. 

769
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,840
Yeah. 
Reflect on their own white 

770
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:28,680
whales. 
Yeah. 

771
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:32,040
To approach those things with a 
little bit more empathy, a 

772
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,840
little bit more awareness, 
right, then I think we've done 

773
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:36,920
something really meaningful. 
Couldn't agree more. 

774
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,880
And for anyone listening who 
hasn't read Moby Dick yet, yeah,

775
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,760
you know, I highly recommend it.
It's it's a challenging book, 

776
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,560
but it's so rewarding. 
And who knows, maybe it'll help 

777
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,440
you navigate your own your own 
modern day white whales. 

778
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,920
Yeah, with with a little more 
wisdom and compassion. 

779
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,840
It's a journey worth taking. 
Until next time, deep divers, 

780
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:34,400
keep exploring. 
The. 

781
00:49:03,560 --> 00:50:07,680
The. 
The. 

782
00:50:36,560 --> 00:51:10,670
The. 
The. 

783
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:43,630
The. 
The. 

784
00:53:44,480 --> 00:54:13,440
The. 
The.