Welcome to Vancouver, True Crime.
I'm Mark. I'm the host the show today.
Have a very special guest, a very honored, have Chantel the
divorce coat. So wide introduce yourself
Chantal and kind of what you offer in your services.
We've been talking so by trough are and I thought oh my God, we
better get going if the show so we better save it for the
podcast. Right?
Exactly how I'm Chantal up the divorce top.
And my goal is to help victims and survivors of abuse
specifically narcissistic and sociopathic abuse strategy.
Logically and methodically the leave their abusers.
Hopefully, I'm hired before they leave, and because that just
really lays a good foundation. But if not, then anytime after
leaving, because as we know, typically, with abusers abused
as an end because the relationship ends, it know,
oftentimes and it's like an intensified eyes and amplifies
after you actually. And I helped with everything I
help from hiring lawyers to knowing what kind of questions
to ask to what to expect through the process to safeguarding
yourself and your children. Abusers will typically use your
children as pawns to hurt you, how to create really effective
and maintain effective, boundaries around your piece, in
your new life and how to parallel parent how to document,
how to communicate, effectively? As you're no longer stuck on the
Merry-Go-Round, right on south pole, communication with your
abuser. So all that sort of stuff under
one giant umbrella. Well, that's amazing because it
like worth. I was talking first hand, I've
been kind of going in a deeper dive into narcissistic abuse and
What are my thoughts are? As because divorce has a massive
impact on kids and it has a massive impact, actually even
Honor Society most of the kids that become juvenile delinquent
homeless drug addiction which is super prevalent in Vancouver and
not only that. But even dangerous because of
the fat and all and opiate crisis is caused by parenting,
poor parenting and parents that can't get along.
The have conflict abused, each other, and ultimately divorced,
every kid that I've ever met that, Ben's having a hard time
currently or has had a hard time in the past was because of their
parents divorce or divorce has a massive impact on children and
Honor Society. The narcissistic abuse, it seems
to take it to another level. There's a million reasons why
parents don't get along and not all people that divorce are bad
people. There's many reasons that are
legitimate to divorce is for, for maybe, it's sometimes best
for the kids to divorce. But in these scenarios were you
have someone for luck? Of a better word a Monster who
maybe they're not classically violent, but they're highly
manipulative. They know how to put people
together. They know how to destroy
people's self-esteem and they know how to be use by eroding.
Someone's self-esteem by insults put-downs, pauses, massive
mental issues and mental health problems and has a massive
impact on our society. So I think this is an important
conversation and I'm really happy that you're here to talk
about it with me. Yes, incredibly important.
And what you just preface this whole conversation with is
something that falls under the category of a scores.
And I'm not sure if you've heard of a scores but it actually
refers to adverse childhood experiences typically children
who are exposed to a plethora of things within their home life.
The higher, the score, the worse off the child will be later on
in life and Ace scores fall under things like sexual abuse,
emotional abuse, Physical abuse of the children plus intimate,
partner violence, IE to parents from incarceration, through to
alcoholism or drug addiction. And children who are exposed to
four or more scores on the ace score, typically, suffer
long-term mental, emotional and physical health issues later on
in life, including depression anxiety, addiction themselves.
All that sort of stuff, really interesting.
And really important to understand that there actually
is a whole study, and it's called Ace.
A scores? Yeah, I don't think I'm going to
definitely look into that because it just, you added, uh,
literally just from my experience.
You know, people, I grew up with people have seen people's kids
that I've seen, who are really, you know, struggling and doing
the regular things for themselves.
You know, kids with low self-esteem.
Getting involved in gangs, getting involved, terrible
things, you ask them. What's going on?
What happened? Home it started when we
divorced. It was his since we started
divorcing. My notice my kid is You know,
their behaviors has changed, right?
Maybe talk a bit about, we talked about this quite a depth
off air, but why, you know, the family court doesn't seem very
family-friendly, boil it down. Well, it really comes down to a
lack of Education. I'm sure there are people, who
simply just don't care, but a lot of judges and lawyers and
experts child psychologists social workers.
All the people who are part of the process in family court and
it's not just a Canadian issue, it's not Is an American issue is
literally a worldwide, Family Court crisis.
They just don't have the understanding.
They don't have the education as though they show up ignorant.
I like, they're either, they simply don't care or they choose
to not put in the time to educate themselves.
So you have judges, who preside over domestic violence cases
with zero training. And unfortunately, the societal
belief is that domestic abuse is just about the parents.
And again, remember, it's not Not just physical domestic
violence, domestic. Abuse is any form of abuse, that
happens between people in any kind of relationship.
And they believe, unfortunately, that if you separate the
parents, the abuse will stop that.
It's merely an incompatibility issue between the adults and
that it doesn't have an impact on the children.
Like we talked about narcissistic abusers, do not
stop abusing because the relationship ends, they always
up the ante post-separation into what is known as post-separation
abuse. So, Really critical that people
who are involved in the family court system from judges, all
the way through your lawyers and everybody in between is educated
so that they're aware of how presenters operate how they
actually, how abusers present, abusers aren't these monsters.
They don't look terrible. They oftentimes are incredibly
charming and charismatic and educated and articulate.
And they present really well in court.
They do not present as discombobulated and irrational.
Their calm, they I love that kind of stage.
They love to have this kind of stress, whereas, the average
person especially a victim who's depleted, who's exhausted who
was fighting for the safety of their children and themselves.
They come across oftentimes as unhinged and irrational,
emotional. And then you have cases where
children are sent to live with abusers and right.
Best case scenario. These children experience
trauma, just by living with an abuser at the worst case.
They died at the hands of their parents.
Yeah, that's all the most awful. You know, scenario.
But even even like Don the subtle specs, I do a series with
the narcissistic Survivor on the Spectrum.
You know, on the lightest is walking on eggshells, but
walking on eggshells for months on end or years on end, it is
abuse, it really is. But but when you try to explain
that to someone all, you don't you're not being hit, not being.
And I think that is the pervasive mentality in society
is that, if they're not being punched or hit and it's not a
physical It'll bruise, then it is not actually abuse, but you
have to understand that any type of fear or stress.
That's prolonged, right? Prolong stressed wrecks.
Havoc on your body and literally leads to people's massive health
issues, long-term cancer, fibro, anxiety, depression, weight,
gain, weight loss, thyroid issues.
These are all things that are impacted by exposure to stress.
Stress isn't really supposed to be a short-term fight-or-flight,
right? Like to get you out of being
chased by a tear? But if you're living in it, even
if you're just and I just and quotations living and walking on
eggshells, you're constantly under stress.
When is my parent going to isolate me?
Or ignore me or neglect me? When is my parent going to give
me affection, all that creates, massive amounts of stress, which
then impact the child's ability to fully Survive and Thrive and
reach their full potential, giving your kid a disability.
So they can't function in this. This world or even world, that's
even more complex. So to me, that, that is pure
abuse because you write believe a job as a parent is to prepare
your kid for society, and be able for that kid to adjust and
be part of a larger community. And when they can't, well,
that's the thing. As far as they're concerned to
the world, they are the perfect parent, right?
In any bottle off the lutely on paper.
All perfect parent. Oh yeah, and you boil it down as
they cannot take accountability for anything even if they're the
grandiose form. Of narcissist or sociopath or a
covert one. Right?
Who's comes across as more humble shy or more vulnerable?
At the end of the day, they will not ever take accountability.
They are always a victim of circumstance.
It's never their fault, which is why they manipulate everybody
into deflecting and projecting all that sort of stuff that they
do behind the scenes. We are even two people that
think that they're good, people. It's all because they can never
be held accountable. They are perfect and it is part
of their very curated facade. Because underneath all of that
is a very, very fragile ego and anybody who holds them
accountable or presents them with the fact has to be
destroyed because their entire existence is about pretending
about facilitating the sly where they are.
In fact, perfect. They're always the smartest
person in a room. Oh yeah.
They're always the best like the best looking.
They're always the richest. They're always the best parent.
They're always the most successful business person.
They're never at fault. They're never.
Able to ever be held accountable and the tragedy is that these
children come out of childhood with a deficit.
They don't experience stability, they don't know, experience,
unconditional love, right? You're supposed to feel safe
with your parents in your health Society.
Indoctrinates us, all to believe that all parents love their
children. Yeah, and that I think is a
massive disservice for children who are raised by abusers
because the cognitive dissonance understanding societally that
your that's love you unconditionally.
But then experiencing isolation triangulation, State, coating,
gas, lighting manipulation, all that sort of stuff as a child.
Really. The child isn't stopped loving
their parent. They stopped loving themselves.
Yes, that is the foundation of all the other issues that they
have emotionally and mentally, the people pleaser in the house
right there, they're doing that to create peace to avoid
confrontation. Yeah, you said something I'm
very interesting and I and I was saying the stood in another
conversation the child stops loving themselves.
And I said this, another conversation about another very
narcissistic abuse, a relationship that I've been
witness to the thought, my relationship, and I've been
witness to and this is what I boiled down to this abuse.
What it's dahua, what has done? It is stripped, the ability of
both the children to love themselves.
If they can't love themselves, and Can't do what's best for
themselves. You know, whom you love
yourself, you do its best for yourself.
They've lost their ability to love themselves.
So if they can't love themselves, how do you expect
these kids to show respect, or love for anyone else?
So, in my opinion, this parent has stolen the ability of this
trade of these, two children to love themselves.
And now both of these children are and in terrible mental and
in shape and I'm hopefully some miracle turn around with these
kids. Need a lot of Help.
And it's all because of a, narcissistic abuse of parent
that dis a net. And the thing is, is that
oftentimes there are those children, just like you
described to come across as it is like in a deficit, right?
They don't take care of themselves and don't shower,
they don't present. But there's also a lot of
children who present beautifully, right?
So they're very artists teachers and caregivers and therapists to
actually spot these children because they're highly
perfectionistic re have a lot of onus on their appearances and
their athletes, right? So they Really well.
And so they appear to society, especially in our society, where
we are really honed into how you present, right, the awards like
a bit. We don't have time - Awards, we
have Atletico Wars, we have academic Awards, right?
So, these children who are also raised in these incredibly
abusive homes, come out and present really well, their hair
is always immaculately brushed, their clothes are always
impeccable. They get the highest grades.
They, you know, are on all these teams and they do really well.
Those children are equally deficient at home for sure,
because he owes kids, easy have a bad crash to, I've seen that
before tuning around holders to secret, and yeah, it's
interesting. What abuse does because in a
household, if there is a miss, a abusive Dad one kid could
present himself. As you said, another kid could
present himself very differently when could become a very
people-pleaser than the other one becomes a very abusive that
I could. Yeah.
And there's a mic the hierarchy. So, but The Golden Child, the
faith, For child, is the child, who's chosen to represent the
parents Perfection to society, right?
This is the child, and this role can change at any time, which is
why kids are constantly competing to have that rule.
So it's always stressful. So that child tends to get more
accolades gets like the best parenting gets the best exposure
to, because they are the ones who try really hard to show the
world. They tend to be perfectionist.
They tend to have high anxiety. And yes, they tend to be closer
to their motion. Cystic parent because the parent
views them as an extension of themselves.
Look how perfect I am based on my child and then you have the
child if there's like three or four children, you have unlike
the people pleaser to falling in between and they tend to be very
accommodating but they also tend to be children who then grow up
to partner with people just like this because the Have No
Boundaries, right? And then at the very end of the
spectrum, you have the scapegoat child and all the ills of the
family are placed on this one child and that child.
Old is responsible for all the wrong stuff.
And so again, it deflects responsibility from the
narcissistic parent, who then projects onto this one, child,
all the ills that they have, right?
And that child tends to be the child who struggles and again,
just like anybody who loses control, if you don't have
control, especially in your whole life, especially when
you're young and vulnerable and impressionable.
You, you create maladaptive coping mechanisms, right?
These are children. Who might cut?
These are children, who have fangs night?
She had depression, these are children who turned to
substances to noun themselves. These are children who have, you
know, anorexia and bulimia, because they have no control.
So they really struggle to find control in another way so that
they actually have control over their own lives, some way?
Yeah, that makes sense to like, you brought up some stuff that
got me thinking as well. We're so let's talk about this
for people that are listening, moving men or women, probably
more so women, unfortunately, who could be thinking about
Divorcing their partner that's narcissistic, abuse of Social
Power affect, maybe all these things, and maybe what are the
some of the things I should start thinking about especially
if they're in one of these types of relationships.
Because divorcing what I've seen you know personally divorcing
it's on it's on a boat. It's like you got to win your
freedom. It's not just divorcing.
You know, you're eating. Yeah, exactly.
Because again I've said I've known a lot of people in my life
and not a lot of people got divorce and even people that
were both kind of cry. Copy, who had tough divorces,
but they weren't narcissistic they were just kind of crappy
people, right? Maybe they had alcohol issues or
whatever these people are on a whole different level.
When you divorce am, it's scorched-earth.
It's getting ready for the earth to be salted and trench warfare.
So, the more I attend a and I can't stress this and I'm pretty
sure you can. The more you can understand this
up front of what you're going to go into better, right?
Well, and here's the thing, and that's why I created my page and
that's why I do the work that I do.
Because I I really can't stress. This enough education is key,
knowledge is power and so many victims.
For whatever reason simply, don't understand that leaving is
not going to be the hardest part.
It's staying gone. That's going to be the hardest
part leaving even though it's scary and there's so many
obstacles. It's the easiest part of you
leaving a narcissistic or sociopathic abuse or once you
would leave its game on gloves are off and it is absolute
Warfare and you are a Public Enemy Number One because you
have Aired, leave them, abandonment is their greatest
concern, right? Even if they cheated on you and
discarded, you you moving on, you filing for Bears.
Yeah. You doing anything that's not
continuously Tethered to them and not at the cost of back in
and call, if you become the enemy because you've abandoned
them and then their other fear is exposure, right?
So, if you've left them, and you're educated about and you
start to put the pieces together and confront them on their
behavior, their other fears exposure because They've worked
their entire lives to create this public Persona, right?
Yeah. So people need to be methodical.
I rarely get clients, who hire me before they leave and while I
can be very effective after you leave.
If you've hired the wrong lawyer, and there's been motions
and orders in place. It's really hard for me to
effectively help you because there's already been issues and
obstacles. Put in place by the court system
by the bye everybody. The bath time to hire me or any
other kind of high conflict. Divorce coach is before you even
have the Russian or Escape so that you can be strategic so
that you could be methodical and how you extricate yourself from
the abuse financially, ensuring that you have funds.
I mean, the easiest way to keep a person submissive and
acquiescent is to restrict their access to money.
And guess what is the first thing that most abusers do is
they cut you off from credit cards bank accounts?
They put you into debt so you can't even get a credit card.
Good luck trying to rent a car or get an apartment if you have
no credit or very core credit, right?
So, it's really important that if people are thinking of
leaving that, they do the work before they even allow their
partner to understand that they're leaving now, these
people are hyper tomb to Spidey senses, they can pick up when
things are changing when they feel you pulling away.
And so if you're planning on leaving, you need to be very
careful that you do not allow them to see that you're leaving,
but they have no idea. And that means that you need to
safeguard yourself electronically, right?
Change your passwords. Clear your search histories
ensure that you have a nest egg that they don't know about that.
You also journal and or document all the infractions everything
and be specific time and place. Who was there?
What happened in a place that they can't access?
They will go through your stuff, they will access your phone's.
They will access your emails. They'll go through your purse,
your wallet, your car. So it's earlier of our many
boundaries at all. Like they really don't and they
do not think it's off the cable. Can you you as a real human
being? They see.
UFO, or they just see you as like, a construct that they've
created their head what and leaving and leaving is the
scariest point. So even if your partner has
never been physical in your actual relationship, prepare for
them to become physical again. Yeah, you have literally
triggered their worst fear of Abandonment and they're losing
control and losing power over you.
So they must increase their tactics to get you to submit
back into the fold. Yeah.
So they will Literally do everything in their power and
they have no, no morals, there's no ethics, right?
So it truly is Warfare at all costs, they don't care.
Who gets killed in the cross fires, they said scorched Earth.
Yeah, which is why they often times use their children.
They literally view their children as pawns, right?
And they know if you're at the protective loving healthy
parent. Yeah.
Worst way to hurt you, is to hurt your children or restrict
her access to your children. Yeah, no, they absolutely can be
awful. And then we talked a little bit
about, you know, before we started about the family court
system because people here Family Court, they think, oh,
they're going to care or when or when I tell them about the of
all the Affairs at they had. And they're going to care about
all the verbal abuse and they're going to care about, you know,
all the of isolation in the financial abuse and this and
that. And and then to most people's
astonishment, those are not even really kind of the shoulder
shrug and and family court did. Count again, you have Cobalt, he
he he paid the mortgage, right? And again, the premise is that
it's an incompatibility issues, so that you guys are just having
a called operate, the 256k adults.
Yeah, and everything will stop, right?
That's why I said I would think about doing mediation or couples
therapy or, you know, therapies, and it's always weird how to
communicate with each other, right co-parenting?
I mean co-parenting, see the problem is that it's Possible to
a victim to extricate themselves and to live a really beautiful
life. But if you're constantly
Tethered to your abuser, through your children, right?
Children. Are the ultimate constraint,
right? They literally shackle you to
your abuser for 18 years until your child ages out of the
system, right? And you can't fully heal and
Thrive while constantly having to be in contact with the person
who created all of your stress and anxiety and like an issues,
and that's why it's so Parrot of that all of society from top
down from judges, all the way, through the society, understand
the real, underlying, premise of abuse that it's all about power
and control. And that it does not stop,
simply because two, people part ways that it, oftentimes
intensifies, and they need to understand that nothing is off
the table with this type of abuse, or they will literally do
everything at all costs to break.
You, you being the victim and they will use her children all
the time. Time.
This is why children get killed by parents right?
It is also gets injury to the healthy protective parent.
Yeah. And the pets to they'll Target
the pets as well. The other thing, too, and in
cases, you know, unfortunately, invite platform, I, you know,
over the years, I've had DM's from women mostly from every
horrible scenario from very brutal domestic abuse to, you
know, narcissistic abuse gaslighting.
You name it the whole thing, right?
Sexual assaults everything. And, and what Comes down to like
what you said. It gets the most dangerous when
they're trying to leave because that's when they're trying to
observe even more control. You know?
Like yeah kind of a size out to. So we talked a little bit also
about hiring a lawyer that's trauma-based informed when why
is that? Well because you need a lawyer
who actually truly understands this type of Personality.
A lot of them spout and they wax lyrical about being, you know, I
They are knowledgeable about narcissus, they understand
abuse, but they truly don't understand.
It's important for them to understand because then they can
be strategic in how they tackle this.
Your lawyer's job is to advocate for you, right to right?
Get you and your children, what you need to be able to leave
safely and continue to have a life post-separation and after
divorce. And if they don't truly
understand this then a they won't be able to help you as a
as a human who has experienced on.
Owen trauma and is easily triggered and if easily reactive
right, and they also won't be able to advocate for you,
effectively, in court and do what needs to be done to get
you, your freedom, and they will prolong things they will do the
wrong things, not truly understanding that it's life and
death. Even if you survive your quality
of life, if not dealt with properly, is going to be greatly
diminished for you. And your children.
I've witnessed to is like how So creative that they can be with
abuse. And I know, like I said Isis
against a, they can weaponize everyday objects as a beast.
Like things that more if you try to repeat as an abusive system,
they can take any scenario that maybe you have to cooperate with
them. Part of what I also offer my
clients is help with their parenting plans or their orders
around parenting because I have seen so many poorly written
parenting plans, which for average people as fine, right?
We even if egos are As in people have been cheated on and
laughed, the average person at some point, be able to dust
themselves off and do what's actually best for their
children. Yeah.
But this type of person is not your average bear and if
parenting plans are an airtight, the language is so ambiguous and
so many parenting plans which allows all these loopholes and
all these gray areas which is a playground for this type of.
So the parenting plan needs to be airtight language needs to be
Rock Solid. There cannot be any gray as
black or white. It has to be so specific.
Bill, which is what I do with a lot of my clients has helped
them either. Hopefully, if they hire me soon
enough, because they know then knowledge is power.
I'm able to, at least create some sort of awareness as to
what to include in your language so that you're not stuck with a
guity that then creates engagement, which then
insecticon his worm, its way in through the something, you would
just some completely overlooked the, you know, their land.
Zelda misinterpret things that are so very clear.
Yes, specifically just to get you engaged.
We remember their worst fear is not Being relevant.
So they need you to engage with them to feel relevant which then
makes them feel powerful. So if you just ignore them, like
this is why you have to pick your battles.
Yes, you could die on Every Mountain.
But do you really want to, you need to pick and choose and
sometimes it just need to turn the other cheek and let them how
whatever it is, because that safeguards your piece in your
sanity and also by not becoming a supply for the becoming really
boring to them. So whoring that it's no longer
worth their while. Yeah.
What you can't gray rock? When you're going through a
courses Dole, but you can certainly diminish, your appeal
to them because you're no longer reacting.
That's another thing that I do people is help them learn to
communicate effectively so that they come across as just
business. It is just business experiences.
I had to go through the whole Gauntlet myself because, you
know, again, I can be pretty blond to may be argumentative.
I'm passionate about something I've learned with those types of
person. Has a worse thing you can do,
but in blunt and This is how I feel about that.
Oh, my God. And then course, they turn it
around on them. Like, you know, my, how can you
say this to me and this and that?
So yeah, they the communication style has to be very adjusted.
Maya, my Approach is more of a, for overtime, is almost being
very clinical with them. This being very clinical, very
almost. And last, if more any emotion is
fodder for them, any emotions. So Joel more fun.
And and also to the easiest way, if they say something,
absolutely ridiculous for repeat.
Eat it back to him like this. Repeat the sentence and say
nothing like really well. And what I always tell my
clients is never ever talk to them.
Like you're not actually, having like a dialogue, is everything
in writing a that also protects use it.
You can actually go back and say, well, actually, we did have
this conversation and you actually get laid at Ilyich.
Another thing I notice is like, massive pathological liars and
then they can only create live in this kind of fantasy world
and the fantasy world, as whatever they utter or speak
becomes, Already in their head. Maybe if they repeat it ten
times, they have met, then you're wondering.
Okay. Am I dealing with a pathological
liar who's psychotic? Or am I dealing with the
delusional person? Who believes her lies?
You know, maybe you're dealing with both.
Yeah, because you have to remember their entire life is a
lie. Everything about them is a lie,
right? What they present to the world.
That's a lie, how they wax? Poetical?
About being amazing. That's all a lie.
But they have to believe their lies because if they don't
believe their lies of their Force to actually deal with who
they are as people and that becomes, it's too vulnerable
that they literally create this whole Persona, this you armor to
avoid having to look at themselves a ticket or member,
Anna. See.
It's kind of funny. Yeah, it's a shame based.
There's a while you my word with the color, fugazi their whole
life for the games. Yeah, that's why people have to
learn to just be unemotional with them and you never Like I
always tell my clients, just because they text you or email
or call. You doesn't mean you have to
engage your job. Like, really the foundation of
everything is creating boundaries and if you're a
people pleaser, that's really hard.
If you're a woman that's even harder, right?
Yeah. And if you have been abused in
any capacity, you have zero boundaries by the end of it,
right? Because you figure your shins
over time to always, acquiesce to their ever-changing wills and
wants and needs. So your first job truly is to
create boundaries and then really maintain them just like
the toddler. If a toddler says mommy, can I
have a candy and they asked you three hundred times and you keep
saying no but I got it working first tight you give them a
candy. What had?
They just lurk right? They aren't asking for enough
time, right? So you really have to ensure
that your boundaries are things that you're going to actually be
able to consistently enforce. If you give in just once after
you've created a boundary, you've taught them that they can
keep comfy. That's a new goal post for the,
that's another thing I noticed too.
It's like, yeah, they can berate you, they can this pick out, you
better. And then soon as you agree,
okay? It's like written in stone by
The, Who ask him something, a hundred times.
Why I never agreed to know, and the thing is, you have to
remember, right? The standards are so different.
Yeah, and these conversations for average healthy people are
exhausting. Yeah, you leave a pleated but
have to remember the more you engage with them, they love
this. They are currently are empty and
they need to feel alive. So you engaging with them you
going back and forth that back-and-forth conversation?
That is actually not stressful for them that actually creates
know what taught that used to be used a lot.
Like this is kind of like in the 90s people, you see use this
term and I think it really applies only see the psychic
vampire, you don't really hear it as much in term anymore, but
that's what it's kind of like what it is because it's like,
you know, someone's like a physical creep and stuff like
that. You know, they cross most
people's boundaries and they can't really go too far, if that
behavior, if I slap, someone cops get called right away, you
It's someone that added rate your child saw because it's
clear cut, but a psychic vampirism, you first, you
weaken, the person isolate, the person drain the person,
everything the person says, is stupid.
You know, you're so dumb. Good thing you have me in your
life. You have me to build you up and
then this is false kind of like pretense that you're so
fortunate to have mean the not have easily earned as a
brainwashing and then it just slowly picking at that person
until they're lifeless. Right?
And then the Discard and then and then if that person decides
to leave in the discard think of the mindset, they are in right
there another completely like, you know, they're almost like I
would compare them to someone that's trying to escape a cult.
Yeah. Well that's exactly what it is.
Like a cult is just dis but on steroids.
Right. The state promise you people
involved more neighbor. Absolutely.
And you can see this type of relationship throughout Society.
Yeah, people in power often times this type of personality
is And they literally are energy vampires.
They literally suck you dry. And then discard you, and any
movement past them is considered abandonment, Ergo a big threat.
Ergo they need to pulverize you like truthfully.
If you committed suicide, that would be ideal for them because
there are yeah, totally. You do their dirty work for
them. Yeah, that out there, get a
bullet to bite you. Yeah, that's disgusting, right.
Think about that when you understand that, that if you
died, that would probably be a victory for them so that's what
we gotta go. Be clear on a question.
I want to ask you, just maybe in your experience because like,
you probably seen like, the whole, you know, got LED of
spectrums of these people. Have you ever seen anyone that
had any success? Like, for example, when I mean,
by success, is like, holding them accountable to say, for
example, you're dating sore married to someone and they were
having multiple Affairs, but they always denied and then
finally got a private investigator, prevented above
all the evidence, and things like that.
And I know they would always Try to worm their way out of it.
But if you ever seen it where it's just like the evidence, is
so stacked against them where they actually would be held
accountable. Now the see the here is the
thing is they they could literally not admit that they
are wrong thing wrong because that would be scratching at
their facade, that would be exposing themselves.
Because remember there, it's a very Shang base disorder.
Yeah, they are very, very delicate.
Egos, they have very You're a child egos, anything but smacks
of dysfunction or abuse or imperfection is intolerable,
right? So, they always come up with a
story that to them. They asked believe.
So he even if you have mountains of evidence, like literally, you
have photographic evidence video, evidence of penetration,
Right? Light fog, actually cheated.
Like, this is actually, I like the clear-cut Fidelity, like
there is not like you might have got into her hotel room and
Maps. You guys just playing.
No. Right.
They will say, well actually you have not validated me as a
human. You have not given me and left
love, right? So they always have to deflect,
because to admit fault, is unacceptable to them, right?
Always the victim, you'll see this pattern repeated.
They're always the victim and their office.
They're always the victim and their family.
They're always the victim with their friends.
Well, I don't know why my friends all turned on me.
I don't know why my boss fired me.
I don't know why my co-workers hate me.
I don't know why the Barista at Starbucks, you know, through.
Latte at me. I never at fault.
Everybody else for the world is going through life in this.
Everyone hating on them and they're just misunderstood right
there. Miss under.
Yes. And the common denominator is
that a lot of times they're only successful because somehow
either because of their parents or other enablers to clean,
these come flying monkeys right that that that they can do no
wrong and I've been in situations that are so toxic.
And the only reason why this person's is able to do what they
can do is because they bear their propped up, either by
other enablers, sometimes parent or someone it is.
Absolutely disgusting and gross because it's like, you can see
what a monster. This person isn't.
Oh no. They're wonderful.
It's you, it's you, you know, that Gary.
And here's the thing is that these individuals tend to come
from the type of familial Dysfunction right?
Where there are a brand this way, not all, but a lot, even if
in these, these families are not happy families though.
Even if they present the, when they're under threat, the family
will bond together will come to the aid of whoever's being
threatened of exposure of being held accountable of also,
showing the world and exposing their dysfunction, right?
Because in these families appearances are everything,
right? So if you have any, they Always
have a night was right with. This is why I think that it's so
important that people understand what abuse looks like, so that
they stop enabling people. If you're an intro in this type
of thing, if you don't actually put a stake in the sand and say
I cannot be friends with the person, I cannot support a
person financially, right? Stop giving people your
business. Yeah.
If you know that their abusers right cut ties with toxic
friends who may not be abusing you, but have abused their
spouse. This is why people need to fold
these people, accountable by not reporting.
All to, you know, their kids are being downloaded or I haven't
seen anything. Yeah.
It's at the in any thicker while the times, these people are only
effective because somehow they figured out to create a little
cheering squad for them or something.
And that's the thing I find the most bizarre.
Oh, and it's disgusting. And there's these people are
propped up by their families by. They're not even friends that I
really have front have acquaintances.
They don't have. And they tend to be people who
benefit from the relationship, right?
So if you have them, the plate, the five, all the booze at the
party up or has great party or might invest in your company
down the road. But here's the beautiful thing
about these people is that these abusers are not happy, no age
and time is their worst enemy. Yeah, it is a victim and a
survivor's best friend. It is their worst enemy.
Yeah, they never die. Surrounded by loved ones.
He died alone, and lonely bitter day and I'd lost.
They travel a lot and like move from location.
Into location. They burn so many bridges, you
as a victim. So many people want like
Revenge. Your best revenge is moving on
is creating of life that you can feel secure again and peaceful
and happy and just give them time, they will expose
themselves over time and it might not be two years, it might
be 15, 20 years but over time, they will burn the bridges
because they treat people like this in all the relationships,
right? I've noticed Nothing too and
it's a sign or no, maybe it's on nice thing to say.
But see when I was younger, right?
And I am feel say the weasel word narcissist, right?
Before we. So she ate that with someone
being arrogant or eight, you know, narcissistic maybe they
were overly concerned with their appearance or they're actually
usually the opposite of that, they're usually actually quite
hideous. I'm not even joking.
Like, as far as time, they're quite unattractive people but
somehow they, they know how to manipulate really well present.
Very differently than what, what you think, classically?
What a narcissism and that's sometimes why people let their
guard down around them too, because it can be quite subtle
at first or not like all an event themselves more as a
victim to you at first whole poor me.
I've been through all so much stuff and they try to get your
guard down by making you feel sorry for them and then agree
shaving themselves out way. They're just misunderstood, it's
like Seidel. I think I find in the very
beginning, with most of them Again, Society has ideas, right?
And we stand firm on those ideas.
So we typically think of a narcissist as a grandiose overt,
narcissus, right? Who tends to be charismatic and
charming and the life of every party and knows exactly what to
say and does not present as humble or vulnerable.
Yeah. But there are, those are easier
to spot because we typically associate of abuser of that
variety with that kind of force. Format, but there's a whole
Spectrum, right? And they're at the very end of
it. You have the vulnerable covert
narcissist who oftentimes comes across a shy, you know, kind of
our leak insecure and those ones are hard to spot.
And they tend to easily and openly play the victim card,
whereas over ones, don't present as a victim, they represent us
in charge right there large and in charge, think Donald Trump.
And that's what we're looking at there, right?
And substance abuse seems to always seem to go Hand has
sometimes, it's secretively, sometimes it's quiet, but I find
them more secure cases. They seem to have some other by
Seaver, drug booze, maybe all them right there.
They're addicts because they have to remember, the constantly
chasing a hi-yah daisy clappy by themselves.
That's why they always overlap with Partners, right?
They constantly need to to be doing stuff.
Be surrounded by people. They can't be quiet because if
you're quiet and your introspective us, why they don't
meditate for instance, because Cuz these are people if you
confront who you are in the quiet and the Solitude, if
you're not surrounded by people who are profiting you up, who
are doing whatever it is that you want to do, then you might
actually be vulnerable and they can't be vulnerable, right?
So, these are people who constantly have to be doing
stuff, cause only have a partner, they literally can't be
alone, and you can typically see unlike an abuser versus a victim
as they exit the relationship victims.
Tend to again, it's not always, there's always exceptions to
every rule they tend to be more Introspective when they leave a
relationship right there working on themselves or trying to
protect their family. They're not jumping into the
next relationship. Yeah.
Whereas the abuser has already overlapped right now, they're
tip awesome about it. There is on.
Yep. And they've moved on.
They have a new partner, they've moved in right again, anything
that presents to the world as being normal is what they want
to do. Plus it also shows that they're
actually not the problem that it's the victim.
Who's the problem? Look how unhinged that first.
And as they can't find a partner, I've already been
happily married. Now by just Stars, the personal
never drink wine, and when, as good as me, it's people who get
into relation, they didn't see it in the beginning.
Talk to narcissus of Iver. She talks a lot about their job.
There are their main manipulative job is make you go
past your red red eye exam, making blast past somebody
dizzying, distracting love-bombing.
Maybe in the beginning, there's lots of trips and On stuff and
outings and, you know, that kind of fun stuff and they love you
right away, right? You're the love of their life,
they don't you in a second and another life and your, their
twin flame, their soulmate, they did weighty.
They're tying wise for you, this is why I always tell people take
your time and do nothing that permanently tethers you to them.
So what they love to do is to move very fast, typically they
move very fast, right? So they've just met you on a
Monday and on Sunday, You're now living together, right?
So things that keep you attached to them opening a business
together. Getting merrier and it's are
popping a child, right? And children are the ultimate
form of heathery. Yeah, anxiety or bondage to them
forever. If you have kids.
And now, now, now you're part of them, right?
Your they then have the ultimate tool to continuously manipulate
and control you, right? It's through her children by
forgetting your children, by using your children's.
You then become abuse by proxy through your children.
That's why You need to take time space, right?
Don't constantly talk to people don't be texting all day because
you need space to be able to see clearly to be able to sit with
yourself and say my gut feels low.
But off it's not distinctly, like I am have met my soulmate
but it's my gut telling me. Hey, something is off here?
Yeah, so if they constantly bombard you with stuff, right?
If you're constantly engaging with them, even if it's positive
stuff, right? Like trips and dinners and
outings and seeing them all the time and cause Italy
communicating with them. Day and night.
You don't have the time to sit with yourself and say, hey this,
there are some giant red flags here.
I'm going to slow the breaks down and I'm not going to commit
to them. I'm going, you know, and they
can't maintain this generated for sod for long.
So, if you give them enough time cracks appear, Ergo, the red
flags and then hopefully you avoid this all together, right?
The worst thing people can do is to get into this kind of
relationship and then trying to leave.
You can avoid it altogether. Doc Yes, you're never the same
person. You can have a wonderful life
but you are now a new version of yourself with the right
strategies. The right experts, in the right
tools, you can have a really beautiful life but it's never
going to be the life. It could have been.
Had you not met this partner? Yeah, it's unfortunate because
Fighters sa use dating out. Some of them are you know,
they're rapists or sexual predators.
Other ones are Financial there. You know, there were 1 over 10
to be your boyfriend but all you need a regna, Chuck Toronto.
I bought a little bit short then You Don.
T. Ya little girl scumbags, right?
So they can a variety of form where they are kind of like a
romance scam or in a different way.
But there are there like the ultimate monster that's like the
the time bomb ossorio perfect boyfriend, in the beginning and
then once they have in your knocked up and then I'll sudden
your mirror, you're either living in another country or
another city or sore with their family and and your whole life
had looks like nothing that you and managing it would be Yeah
and isolating a victim is very, very common in you isolate them
from their support isolate from people who might be able to look
at and say, hey something is very dysfunctional here.
You isolate them financially, right?
They now have control over your access to money even if it's a
very lavish budget like a, I have clients who, you know, get
ten thousand dollars a week for their health.
But if you have to ask your partner for access to take an
eel that cage Sawyer saying, yeah it it's still not free.
No. Yes.
Like you might be able to go to the spa and might be able to go
to run through and by Gucci and Chanel, but somebody controls
your access to get permission. You can't just say, hey I'm
going to go buy myself some shoes, right?
We're not even talking about people who are stay-at-home
parents. For instance, there are people
who they're both working but he controls among condos into the
other person's account and that person then controls you have no
access. You don't have credit cards in
your name, your, you know, this you know, like, You have their
credit cards with under their name, right?
How do you hurt a person? You hurt a person by taking away
their access it. So you got Ian power?
Yeah, and then good luck trying to extricate yourself, right?
All the stuff costs, money hiring a lawyer costs money.
Taking time. Off of work costs money.
Putting a deposit down on a like an apartment or townhome costs
money, a retainer for a lawyer costs money while firing
psychologists. All this stuff costs money and
it's impossible to get access to my It's been hidden by the
person who controls it and the courts enable this, right?
They make it really difficult for victims to have access to.
It takes time and it's sometimes it can take years.
Yeah. And even then you might not
actually have full disclosure. Well, some tell, I really
appreciate you coming and talking to me about this.
Hopefully we can talk about it again.
I'd love to have you on again and button your other subjects
and things like that. We could talk for hours,
literally about the subject. If my friends, thank you.
If people want to get ahold of you and they want your services,
how do they get a hold of you? It's the best way.
Well they can follow me on Instagram at the divorce at the
underscore divorce underscore have where they can check out my
website at www.24hrcares.com AA or they can email me at Chantal
at the divorce have dossier but I'll put your contact
information as well for people awesome.
I think you're doing a really great thing because again, from
the stuff I've seen, if we knew about you three years ago, wow,
who would probably made a massive Difference and in my
personal situation to. So because again, you know, I
can't stress enough, you know, for a person that doesn't really
understand the court system, the legal system, you know, we have
a teen violent problem of teens doing really violent actions,
you know, stabbings and bear, spraying and swarming.
So this has an impact to all our society and course, our children
are our future and as we go in the future we want to have a
bright future for them. It's and children are completely
A dependent on their caregivers, the completely vulnerable.
Yes. And the impact that their that
these people have on them can be hopefully positive.
But oftentimes, it's completed completely opposite.
Yeah. No, it's awful.
So thank you so much for talking to me and awesome.
Thanks so much Mark, you care? Bye, bye.