1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,560 Is to kind of go through these terms because people hear them 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,440 left right center communist socialist. 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,480 But for some people I don't think they really understand 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,240 what they mean and I thought it might be a good idea to stick. 5 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,640 Hopefully we'll do more shows and then we can kind of go kind 6 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,280 of peel the layer of the onion so to speak right as then we can 7 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:22,400 have a deeper conversation about these things once everyone's on 8 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,680 the same page what what we mean when we say left right 9 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:26,600 socialist. Can I? 10 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,480 Ask you a question, yeah. Have you considered that you're 11 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,000 doing plain language? What do you mean? 12 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,480 What's up do? You know what that term means? 13 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,000 Kinda. I think so. 14 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,800 Really quickly. So since we talked last, I also 15 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,080 rebranded my business page like I don't know if you even follow 16 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,680 me there. Yeah, yeah, the the copywriting 17 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,200 one, right? So I used to just be Larson 18 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,040 Coppico, like my maiden name. And I was like, well, I got 19 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,000 married, changed my name, so I'm gonna change my business too. 20 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:00,440 And I specifically rebranded as the inclusive copywriter, right? 21 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,720 OK, so right. Yeah, I saw. 22 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:03,920 That, yeah, that's, you know, partially for branding. 23 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,840 I also have a background in sales, operating, marketing, 24 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,880 etcetera. But the thing that I'm actually 25 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,600 working on making myself an expert in, which I am an expert 26 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,080 in. But I'm not an expert 27 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,760 academically, according to the academics, which is a whole 28 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,760 other thing I could Yeah, it's another rabbit hole. 29 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,120 But it's this idea of. The the real definition of plain 30 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,400 language is speaking in a way that your audience can 31 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,280 understand, Of course, yeah. I agree action from and so one 32 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,840 thing that I came up to like hit up against when I was talking to 33 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,600 some academics about plain language is that they don't 34 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,800 identify that people who are working like on the front line, 35 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:50,320 like trying to educate the public are often more expert in 36 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,280 plain language. Because we've actually had to 37 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,320 sit down and do that. Take these complicated terms and 38 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,160 like explain them to someone who doesn't speak English as a first 39 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,600 language. Oh yeah, exactly. 40 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,480 Has no background in political sciences or philosophy or 41 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:11,000 whatever it is religion and science, like tech. 42 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,680 Like there's so many industries, economics, finance, where we use 43 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,600 all this really complicated jargon. 44 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,840 And So what? I basically like sell myself as 45 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,240 now. Is as a plain language expert, 46 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,600 which is relevant both in education, like government 47 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,280 communications, government communications, and in like 48 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,200 marketing and sales. And it's not just about English 49 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:35,760 either. Like, I won't go off on a 50 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:40,160 tangent on it, but I have friends who do like Farsi 51 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,200 translations and things like that, and sometimes they'll tell 52 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,080 me what the government has put out in Farsi. 53 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,600 If you directly translate it, it's full of like offensive 54 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:50,920 language. Oh no. 55 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,040 So it's odd, like like like chromophobic language. 56 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,200 And this whole idea of like plain language is something that 57 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,640 I'm really like. It's a special interest of mine. 58 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:00,760 Autistic. Yeah, that's cool. 59 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,160 This is another thing with politics, right? 60 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,480 Like one of my things like where I feel and I think a lot of 61 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,560 people feel this way and maybe can kind of direct this right. 62 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,640 I feel that the average person is very turned off by politics. 63 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:17,920 And and then this is one of was one of my first, like, bad taste 64 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:20,840 with politics. When I was in Grade 12, I went 65 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:26,080 to Kitsiliano High School and we had a visitor special guest, Kim 66 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,560 Campbell of the Conservative Party. 67 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,400 And we're we know we're actually kind of excited to see her and 68 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:35,680 we actually thought we would get some value out of this 69 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,880 conversation. She stood up and it was just 70 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,320 like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 71 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,200 And then she'll question, like, I honestly don't remember a 72 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,280 thing that she said. It was just like back in the 73 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,840 British, North American octave, this and that. 74 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,040 And but you know just just was just like and then kids you know 75 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,760 or graduate class were asking questions to a very direct 76 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,480 questions and she just kind of looked through them and then 77 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,680 blah. Blah, blah, blah blah and back 78 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,360 and then OK, next question and and it's just like thanks for 79 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,440 the the gobbly gook, right. They're arguably the worst for 80 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,160 it, but they all do it. They all do it, do it. 81 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,280 And I noticed, like the deputy, she's terrible at it, too. 82 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,680 They asked her. We're working with our partners. 83 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,800 No one asked about if you're working with your partners. 84 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,360 My thing about political language, the the George Orwell 85 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,600 quote, the one about political language, is designed to make 86 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,640 lies sound truthful and more respectful. 87 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,040 But the actual best part of the quote is the end bit, where he 88 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,120 says. And to give the appearance of 89 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,840 solidity to pure wind, right? Like they're just blowing hot 90 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:42,920 air. Oh yeah, And but that's the 91 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,440 difference between, you know, again, one being on both sides 92 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,400 of the border, right? And I've watched a lot of 93 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,200 American politics, right. So I was very fascinated by it, 94 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,120 you know, 'cause it's, it's more of a spectacle, right? 95 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,240 But the difference with the American politicians, generally 96 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,520 speaking, and the Canadians ones, the Americans politician 97 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,480 will take off the tie, roll up the sleeve. 98 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,120 They will do a town hall and they'll speak very plainly. 99 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:06,760 They will. They'll speak very plainly 100 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,400 because they want to. They want to be relatable. 101 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,960 They want it right. And and and maybe sometimes they 102 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,520 they simplify even more So like, you know, the famous George Bush 103 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,360 Read my lips, no new taxes. Very simple. 104 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,920 We're Canadian politicians. It's more like this word salad 105 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,640 of gobbly Duke but thing. About Harper, how he used to do 106 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,000 his speeches and he would just like, drone on, drone on. 107 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,120 Drone on, sound bite drone on. Drone on, Drone on. 108 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,640 Like, intentional about that. But then he'll he'll drop a 109 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,200 sound bite. That is the one thing he wants 110 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,960 reporters to write. So it's like intentional 111 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,920 garbage, a little gem, and then more garbage in my lifetime. 112 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,640 I'm saying I'm you can straight up my lifetime. 113 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,120 This is possibly the most dramatic time politically. 114 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,040 You know the whole you you know all the political scandals are 115 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,440 you can't there's too many to even count right. 116 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,800 Morning when I was having my coughing I almost broke my 117 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,160 tablet. We got we're going to have the 118 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,240 Choo Choo train back the. Choo Choo train. 119 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,040 The Choo Choo train did. You feel that I was interviewed 120 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,240 during the municipal election to talk about Ken SIM and I think 121 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,600 the best thing that I said. Because they asked me like, oh, 122 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,120 what do you think about Ken SIM getting elected, blah, blah, 123 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,880 blah. Because I was there at City News 124 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,560 on election night said I don't think he knows what he's getting 125 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,080 himself into. He has no clue what he's doing. 126 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,040 And like I'm a business owner, like I'm an entrepreneur, it's 127 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,040 not the same as politics or government. 128 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,080 And I think the one thing actually that like my little 129 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,360 tidbit that I think we should talk about today. 130 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,400 The difference between government and politicians and 131 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,800 governance, they They want to be celebrities. 132 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,760 They want to be fucking Batman. They don't want to get down and 133 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,640 like actually do the work. It's just want to be celebrity 134 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,200 mouthpieces. They're not. 135 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:04,960 To me, it's like, are you doing the work? 136 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:06,920 Are you actually engaging with people? 137 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,960 Are you working with your team? Are you in the office, like, 138 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,960 showing up to media events? Stop gunning beers. 139 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,640 On yachts, Yeah, the city's in bad shape. 140 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,840 And this is like, you know what I I like a good time less like 141 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,920 anyone else. But when you have the poverty, 142 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,040 you have the street life, you have random attacks, you got 143 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,440 business owners getting their windows kicked in. 144 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,480 Thinks he can like, like, I don't know who his, who he 145 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,880 thinks his demographic is, who elected him, right? 146 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,640 Like there were certain, let's say, stakeholder groups that 147 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,680 they targeted communities that they really targeted. 148 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,240 And that's, you know, certain like ethnic communities and 149 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:48,880 business communities. But their messaging now seems 150 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:53,160 very kind of like like libertarian dude bro, bizarre 151 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:54,720 like. And I think that's what it is 152 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,240 for people like, back to that, I think people, they'll hear these 153 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,520 terms, like from my background too, they'll hear something and 154 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,720 they attach what they think it is. 155 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,480 And that's where a lot of these arguments. 156 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,560 Packaged meaning you have these preconceived notions that you 157 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,080 know you've picked up and. One thing I really think about 158 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,000 is like trying to look at the world through new eyes. 159 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,680 Like trying to think about things in a way as though I 160 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,120 didn't know anything about it. Yes, you know. 161 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,960 Yeah, and and that's, But part of that is like an aspect of the 162 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,040 practice of plain language, trying to think if somebody 163 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,000 didn't know anything that I know, would they still 164 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,080 understand what I'm saying? And that's kind of like my thing 165 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,240 now is. And I honestly, I always did 166 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:38,799 this even when I worked in government. 167 00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:42,799 And one of my biggest criticisms of government when I worked 168 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:47,720 there and I told them was that they themselves legislate, that 169 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,480 we use plain language. But they're not doing it. 170 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,360 Like look, look at any post from the the BCNDP or from David EB 171 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,320 or from Jagmeet Singh. I know who developed their 172 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,360 communication style. They call it. 173 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,520 Connect, contrast. What is it? 174 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,840 Connect, contrast. And then they have another 175 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:10,160 thing. But. 176 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,920 But basically they have this method they use right where they 177 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:18,920 say, oh, Canadians are struggling with housing, Justin 178 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,480 Trudeau is horrible, NDP is the only solution. 179 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:27,720 And I'm like, this is such tired, outdated sales, Yes. 180 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,560 Oh, totally. And because I, you know, I have 181 00:09:29,560 --> 00:09:33,880 a sales background, I have a ear for anything salesy and and for 182 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,680 me it's like, 'cause now I try to do sales without doing sales, 183 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:40,720 if that makes sense. I call that Joy based selling. 184 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,400 I have a term for that too. Oh, that's awesome. 185 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:48,360 My whole thing in that though, is that you have to be honest, 186 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,840 yes in. Order to sell without being 187 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,360 salesy. And in order to be honest, you 188 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,480 can't use political language. You can't use misleading 189 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,480 language. You can't lie to or shame your 190 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,480 audience, yes. And that's really the problem. 191 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,240 Like, to me, what the NDP are doing or trying to do is they're 192 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,280 trying to use that outdated sales method of the emotional 193 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,520 roller coaster. You have this horrible problem. 194 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,320 Look how bad it is. We are the only solution. 195 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,280 We can you but. That is to me, the worst way. 196 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,200 Not only to sell, but to retain someone. 197 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,840 Yes, because you get buyer's remorse from that right. 198 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,200 Exactly how many people, especially like you're saying in 199 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,600 these kind of volatile times, more and more people are losing 200 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:39,440 their party loyalty, yes? I have like, are you affiliated 201 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,720 with any party? Like I'm confused. 202 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,040 This is for me, I'm the most. We have these like pre packaged 203 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,640 preconceived notions about these things and we just like. 204 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:53,560 Repeat things we've heard rather than think critically about what 205 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:56,520 we're thinking and saying, yeah, but let's just, like, actually 206 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,760 just go into like the the most simplest thing because we hear 207 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,040 this so much. Oh, he's left. 208 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,120 He's right. The first one is what's the 209 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,840 difference simply between left and right? 210 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,880 I don't like to think of it as like a binary. 211 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,360 Instead, I almost like to think of it like a spectrum or even. 212 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,960 Like a circle. Because if you've ever looked 213 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,960 into or you're aware of politics, you've probably heard 214 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,720 if you go far enough on the political spectrum, you fall out 215 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,600 the other end, right? I've heard that. 216 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,240 It's why? I started thinking of myself as 217 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,920 maybe a radical but not an extremist. 218 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,920 I think we need to make space for conversation and room for us 219 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,200 to come together and think more about how we're similar than how 220 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,880 we're different. And I honestly think that even 221 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,600 just the labels left and right are starting to become 222 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,120 incredibly problematic. Yeah, me too, because. 223 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,680 I often engage with people as someone who has always 224 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:54,240 identified with being on the left, right, I engage with 225 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,520 centrist. I engage with people who think 226 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,400 of themselves on the right. But. 227 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:05,640 To people on the left, to us means you don't care about 228 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,840 people, right? Like that's exception. 229 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,480 And I think that there's a lot of people who would identify 230 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,920 with being right wing, who do still care about their country, 231 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,680 their neighbors. And I think that that's where we 232 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:22,240 need to start breaking down these ideas because when we when 233 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,720 we other people that's how we end up in conflict. 234 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:26,840 Absolutely. I agree with that. 235 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,480 Like I'll give you an example like when I again going from 236 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,400 Canada and the United States, right. 237 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,520 So I I see myself probably like maybe certain issues are more 238 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,160 this way and this certain issue like I'm all over the map, 239 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,320 right. I believe at the end of the day 240 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,840 that people should have personal freedom to govern themselves. 241 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,280 Abortion, healthcare, those type of things. 242 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,880 Those are personal decisions that are none of my business. 243 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,120 That's why I look at it, right. But when it comes to taxation, I 244 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,280 think Canada has a very vicious taxation policy, which which I 245 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,680 feel that could be scaled back a bit, right? 246 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,480 When I went back and forth to the States, the thing that I 247 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,200 would see that was very different than Canada back in 248 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,320 the day was you would see extremely rich people and you'd 249 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,320 see extremely poor people. I saw like back, like even 10 250 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,240 years ago, I'd see like, poor families all living out of a van 251 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,480 in a Walmart parking lot. I think, Oh my God, that would 252 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,600 never happen in Canada. So I, I appreciated that we had 253 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,280 this social safety net that was more robust than they did in the 254 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,720 States because, man, you fall in the Crocs in the States, you 255 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,440 fall deep, right. And no one gives a, you know, 256 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,720 really more like. A like a cavernous pit than a 257 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,240 yes. Yes, but I think the problem is. 258 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:41,160 Is that in Canada that crack has been widening and even when we? 259 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:45,800 Have progressive governments like in BC, they have made some 260 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:50,680 improvements, but that crack has still been widening and the 261 00:13:50,680 --> 00:13:54,480 problems are so big it's like we can't keep up with them at this 262 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,840 point. Like I think about you mentioned 263 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,160 housing and one of the projects that I worked on when I was 264 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,080 working for the BC government was a research project with SFU 265 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,560 on. Refugees and newcomers, right. 266 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,320 And youth in Burnaby specifically. 267 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:15,680 And one of the greatest issues is housing for that community 268 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,320 because they get put on a social housing list, right? 269 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,680 And they while they're on that list, they could have a family 270 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,320 of five or six or seven living in a single bedroom apartment, 271 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,360 but until a house with a bedroom for each child of a certain age 272 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,560 and gender. Becomes available. 273 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,760 They will not get housing. Oh my God. 274 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,600 So instead of giving them like taking them from that one 275 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,680 bedroom and putting them into like a three bedroom or 276 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,480 something, yeah, fully progress them up. 277 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,800 In there, Oh my God. And sometimes for so long that 278 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,480 the kids, like, are living on top of each other. 279 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,440 And again, we think about mental health, right? 280 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,120 Yes. Like, what is your quality of 281 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:59,360 life if you're a family of five living in a single bedroom home? 282 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:01,240 Wow. Right. 283 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,240 Like, and then I start to, we started to look at like, what 284 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,040 things can we do to kind of keep these kids out of trouble? 285 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,160 That was their attitude, which to me was already problematic. 286 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,160 It's like a white savior complex. 287 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:14,320 Yeah, kind of. Right. 288 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,280 The other thing that I found really interesting was that in 289 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,520 partnering with SFU in this project, and I'll be honest, I 290 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,480 don't know if they ever finished it cuz I left before they we 291 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,280 wrapped it up. In partnering with them, when I 292 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,000 was doing my research, I discovered that the University 293 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,680 of Victoria had already done a study on it, like the exact same 294 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,080 topic. And so instead of taking action 295 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,680 or using the information from that, it was a very recent 296 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:38,920 study. It had been done like a year 297 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,120 previous. Instead of using that, the 298 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:46,320 government and SFU decided to just do it again, like it made 299 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,000 no sense to me. I was like we already have the 300 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,080 data. We already know what could help 301 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:51,920 these kids. What could help these families. 302 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,760 Just want to research it more. Wow. 303 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,360 When when I was in startups, right, I did I did 12 high tech 304 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,160 startups some of them like incredibly well funded. 305 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,640 And what the method we use was a was a method called agile 306 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,760 development, right. You you plan and then you see 307 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,960 how it affects on the ground and then you kind of have to adjust 308 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,800 and then you do more plan. You know what I mean? 309 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,000 Like you do it in little in little segments where the 310 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,600 government. Can be so hesitant to take 311 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:19,680 action? Yeah. 312 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,880 Like if you look, have have you heard much about the modular 313 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,000 housing lately? I heard about it, but I don't 314 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,080 know much about it. No, I don't know much about it. 315 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,000 That's a big thing, right? When the the ND, like the BCNDP 316 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,040 came into power when I was still working for them, we built all 317 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,080 this modular housing, right? Right. 318 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,520 Right. But has it solved anything? 319 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,120 No. Has it? 320 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,080 Helped. And why haven't they kept doing 321 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,360 it right? So like you're talking about 322 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,080 they finally did something, but I'm sure they have data on it. 323 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,800 What are they doing with that? Are they taking more action? 324 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,160 I don't see it like in my neighborhood. 325 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,160 I see more and more people becoming homeless. 326 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,200 Oh, hell yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I know it's scary. 327 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,520 So just for definitions of terms, it's what you this, like 328 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,640 going back to left and right in your opinion. 329 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,319 OK. Just like for the audience 330 00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:08,440 listening, what typically when you say this person's right, 331 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,599 what words conjure up when you hear that, when you hear that 332 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,800 term, they're right ring? I'll be really honest with you. 333 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,119 Yeah, be honestly. As someone from the left, 334 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,319 fascism comes to mind. OK, that's something. 335 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,880 So then what does fascism mean? Let's go to that terminal, 336 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,160 because I hear that a lot. Oh, he's a fascist. 337 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:26,599 You're a fascist. A fascist. 338 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:28,119 And. And and my understanding of 339 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,360 fascism is when corporations and government come in this big 340 00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:33,320 block and they decide things for you. 341 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,080 Is that I? Mean. 342 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:37,880 So like this is kind of the extreme end, right? 343 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,920 Of like authoritarian, totalitarian, fascist. 344 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:47,040 But to me, that's restricting like your rights and freedoms. 345 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,600 Is a big part of it. And prioritizing one group over 346 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,520 another, right? So those are kind of the 347 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,080 concepts that I would think about. 348 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,160 Personally, I don't think everyone who identifies as right 349 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,160 wing is a fascist. That is absolutely not true. 350 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,640 But I think the problem is that people on the left see it that 351 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,200 way, right? Just like everyone on the right. 352 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,760 Not everyone, but a lot of people think people on the left 353 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,880 are communists, right? OK, so. 354 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,240 Let's like, if you're looking at the extremes, that's kind of 355 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,520 what we have. But at the end of the day, 356 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:27,480 people who are on the right are more conservative than fascist, 357 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,040 right? Yes, yes. 358 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:35,240 But in conservativism, there are elements that are problematic, 359 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,800 yes. Because a conservative wants to, 360 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,880 like, preserve the way things are, let's say. 361 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,520 Like they believe in traditional values, maybe family values, 362 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,840 things like that. And you know, they don't want to 363 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,440 be taxed too much. They want, like to be able to 364 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,680 have free enterprise and capitalism and all those things. 365 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:56,920 But I think this is the problem, right? 366 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,120 Is that people on the left like vilify that attitude. 367 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,400 And the thing that I find most interesting was that when I was 368 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,520 on like in the NDP, like very in the left. 369 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,400 A lot of those people are young families. 370 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,600 They have family values. Some of them are Christian or, 371 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,640 you know, religious in some way. And I think that's really the 372 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,960 problem, is that we look at the right, like this extremist, 373 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,880 fascist, totalitarian, but really like, it's this idea of 374 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:30,640 like family values, of like preserving kind of like societal 375 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,040 morality. You can get into the nitty 376 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,720 gritty of it. But I think the real problem and 377 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,320 kind of what we're talking about today is. 378 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,800 Having these preconceived notions about these terms and 379 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,320 thinking they mean something that they really don't. 380 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,160 But I also think that when you identify with one of those 381 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,280 things, like I like I've said, I I identify with being on the 382 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,720 left. But do I identify with all of 383 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,080 the extremists on the left? No. 384 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,800 Do all the people who identify as right wing identify with 385 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,240 those extreme views? Probably not. 386 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,960 You know, I think we we kind of touched on this, but one of the 387 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,120 main issues to me when it comes to conservatives in Canada. 388 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,600 Is my right to choose as a woman right? 389 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,080 Like a right to do what I want with my body? 390 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,720 And the other term that I'd like to bring into the conversation 391 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,600 is cognitive dissonance? Yes. 392 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,400 Right. This is a major issue in our 393 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,760 society, in the world where people say they want one thing, 394 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,800 but then they do all of this mental gymnastics that convinces 395 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,040 them that what they're doing is working towards the thing that 396 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,600 they want, when in fact those things that they are doing or 397 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,680 thinking or believing are in complete contravention of what 398 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,000 they say they want when. People are emotional, right? 399 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,360 And I've done this. Oh God, I've been guilty of 400 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:46,520 this. You're emotional. 401 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:50,640 And and sometimes when you you get into that very reactionary 402 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,200 state you start throwing out terms and yelling and this and 403 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,960 that. Do you really know what you're 404 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:57,360 saying? Even myself, right. 405 00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:58,960 You know what I mean? Because you're in that emotional 406 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,320 state, right? I, I, you know, we this could 407 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:06,040 maybe another show but we could talk about are there forces that 408 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,080 are pushing people into these types of emotional state these 409 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,240 what they call these divide and conquer type of tactics. 410 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,080 Right. You know the darker aspects of 411 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,240 the politics give it like an institution, right? 412 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,400 Like when we talk about institutional issues or systemic 413 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,320 issues, really what we're talking about is these 414 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:29,000 institutions of thought, right? These institutions of thought 415 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,440 are kind of like self feeding, right? 416 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,640 So, like, if you think of the NDP or the Conservative Party in 417 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,960 Canada, who started them, right? Right, That's good. 418 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:44,080 That's a good point. Are any of those people still 419 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,360 there? Yeah. 420 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,440 But we are still repeating things that we have heard and 421 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,240 have been saying just because that's what we say, right? 422 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:55,840 Right, right. Like that's. 423 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,240 Yeah. I think about a lot, too. 424 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,840 Like the world has changed. Yeah. 425 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,800 For a lot. And even like I I talked to you 426 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,560 about briefly before we started. Even like on the left, they're 427 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:12,160 using these really outdated, like shameful sales tactics in 428 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,160 politics where they're trying to make people feel bad. 429 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,440 And I I see that from every party. 430 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,080 And the thing that I think that we really need to deconstruct is 431 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,280 partisan politics. Like, to me, it almost looks 432 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,240 like a children's sports day, except for more violent and 433 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,360 rude, you know? Yeah, totally. 434 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:34,360 I don't understand why we have to identify with the political 435 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:37,360 party like it just seems silly team. 436 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:39,440 Sports, right? And you know, it's kind of funny 437 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:40,720 and I always think of this, right? 438 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,600 Like when you watch like World Cup soccer for example, right? 439 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,880 Doesn't matter if it Brazil or France or whatever. 440 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,600 And whoever teams wins a week later you see those shirts 441 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,120 everywhere. Everyone's putting on that shirt 442 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:53,680 because they want to feel like they're part of the winning 443 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,200 team. Like I remember when Brazil was 444 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,640 winning all the World Cup soccer then the every time I'd go out, 445 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,080 Oh my God, there's like a sea of Brazil shirts, right. 446 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,560 So I think it's like a way people they want to identify 447 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,920 with the winner, right. And made me think of something 448 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,800 and I was telling this to my partner because my partner's 449 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,360 from Ontario so he doesn't really understand how crazy BC 450 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:14,120 politics are. BC politics in itself, It could 451 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:14,800 be a. The show. 452 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,920 Right. And they're in the Liberal 453 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,120 Party. And I was telling her, well, 454 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,240 they're not liberal because she thought they were affiliated 455 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,040 with the, the federal Liberal Party. 456 00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:23,800 There are. And she's like, why did they 457 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,360 call themselves the Liberal? I go, well, they used to be the 458 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:28,880 Social Credit and then they had all these scandals, a guy named 459 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,000 Bill Vanderzam, that's a whole nother story. 460 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,080 And then they rebranded as liberal and then people. 461 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,440 Especially the English second language. 462 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,320 Or just maybe moved here from another place. 463 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,480 So they think, oh, they think they're voting for the other 464 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,840 liberals, Right. So again, the definition of the 465 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,480 terminology, right. I think I heard. 466 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:47,720 I don't know, maybe you can tell me. 467 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,080 I heard they're gonna rebrand themselves as a united party or 468 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,440 something. Well, they've already done that. 469 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,720 Oh, they have. So they've already rebranded 470 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,840 themselves as BC United. This I think just happened about 471 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,760 a year ago in a way. I feel like that's a good, good 472 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,000 thing, but only because now people can understand that the 473 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,400 provincial party is not the same as the Yeah. 474 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:14,320 And if you think of it this way, the BC and DP even plays off of 475 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,240 the popularity that, like, Jack Laden had federally, right? 476 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:19,160 Yeah. Right. 477 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:19,920 Yeah. So. 478 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,640 Like, the one thing I have to explain to people constantly 479 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,720 when it comes to like, government or political issues 480 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,240 is that provincial parties and provincial governments are 481 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,880 completely separate from federal the BCNDP and the federal NDP or 482 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,440 the BC Green Party and the federal Green Party. 483 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,000 They might share a membership list, which is a whole other 484 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,280 problem. They share a membership list, 485 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,760 but they don't necessarily share all of the same policies, no? 486 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,600 Right. They share staff. 487 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:58,200 A lot of the same people are, you know, influencing or running 488 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,160 provincial and federal parties. And when it comes to campaigns 489 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,960 as well, they will take provincial staff and ship them 490 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,080 all across Canada. Every party does this right? 491 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,960 So a lot of the like, people in power or people with influence 492 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,360 are the same in the parties. But then you also have this 493 00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:20,800 layer of the party, like the BCNDP is a good example. 494 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,880 Because we're here, the BCNDP and the BC government, who is 495 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,840 the NDP are not the same thing either. 496 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,520 The people who are in government are not necessarily beholden to 497 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,120 the demands of their party. Wow, right. 498 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,560 We can pass policy decisions at the party level. 499 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,000 And we've we've seen this with environmentalism in BC, right? 500 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,800 The BC. And DP as a party is much more 501 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:51,200 pro environmental than the BC government is, even though it's 502 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:52,880 the same people. Oh. 503 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:53,880 Wow. Right. 504 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:56,360 So yeah, that makes. Sense they become more centrist 505 00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,800 because but isn't that? Confusing for the average Joe 506 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,400 out there, though, like, you know what I mean? 507 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,080 Because it's like a, oh, the Liberal Party. 508 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,880 Oh, you know, I let you know if they like, say they like Justin 509 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,480 Trudeau, right. And then they think they're 510 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,400 voting for the same team. So one big term I want to talk 511 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,280 to you about. So I remember, I think it was 512 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,520 about 2006, There was a guy named Ron Paul who was 513 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,440 Republican and he was seen as a libertarian. 514 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,880 And and he had a lot of support especially from because my 515 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,080 background is IT and and and the IT space loved him. 516 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,360 They absolutely loved him. He was a, you know he's kind of 517 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:33,880 a funny guy but you know and interesting and that was a very 518 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,680 popular thing, the libertarian and then even the United States 519 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,560 has a libertarian party. They never do really do 520 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,920 anything. But that was a popular thing 521 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,840 that was thrown out right. It doesn't really kind of 522 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,120 diminish since then. But like, for the audience, how 523 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:47,880 would you describe a libertarian? 524 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,600 Someone that identifies himself as a libertarian. 525 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,720 So a mean proportion of or component of libertarianism is 526 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,880 around personal freedom, right? Like, that's kind of like the 527 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,200 the overarching big idea of libertarianism is like limited 528 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,680 government intervention, like economics and social things, 529 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,560 like they believe in, like free market capitalism and things 530 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,680 like that. But the interesting thing is, 531 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,560 when you say libertarian to me, I think of the Green Party, 532 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,360 right? OK, so that's another conception 533 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:22,200 is that the Green Party is on the left, but it? 534 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,360 Wants us to again identify with the left. 535 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:26,720 Don't see the greens as on the left. 536 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,440 See, I never. Fight not A viable option for 537 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,800 those of us who want to vote progressively. 538 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,960 And you can even see this, like with their whole scandal of 539 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,640 leadership that happened federally, you can look into 540 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,600 that more. There's a lot of racism in the 541 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,040 Green Party. Well, you just taught. 542 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,320 Me, something where I I've always saw them as a lefty 543 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:47,080 party. Wow. 544 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:47,880 I didn't. I didn't. 545 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,240 Yeah. I didn't see them as 546 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:50,560 libertarian. Well, that's interesting. 547 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,000 Progressive environmentally. But they the big criticism that 548 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,560 we hear, especially in BC and you know, I've worked in 549 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,800 campaigns provincially and federally and it's the same 550 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,200 thing. A big thing we hear is that they 551 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,160 don't have the backs of working people. 552 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:07,960 Like they're lacking on social policy. 553 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,360 And I know especially in BC with Sonia first. 554 00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:15,320 So now, like a lot of people like Sonia, like we don't see 555 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,600 them as a beacon of feminism, let's say either, right? 556 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,360 Right. So I think it's like those of us 557 00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:23,640 on the left, especially a lot of us who have left the NDP, which 558 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,760 there's tons of us who have left the federal and the provincial 559 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,400 NDP. Interesting, we we will not go 560 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,760 to the Greens because we don't feel welcome there. 561 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,960 They can change some of their language. 562 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:39,080 But it's that like until your actions meet what you're saying, 563 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:40,360 like I'm not right. Yeah. 564 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,120 Well, there you go again, right, like for the average person, 565 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,400 right, They see green. Green has been very marketed, 566 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,200 you know, from a marketing background. 567 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,840 Oh, green is good. Green is about the environment. 568 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,760 Green is like everything we want the earth and hippie and 569 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,160 everyone's lives in a kumbaya life, right. 570 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,960 And and a lot of people and this is what they have noticed this 571 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,480 for any topic, any topic, most people will just take a a 572 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,400 surface layer of understanding about these topics and like you 573 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,680 said, they there there's a, you know that that analogy of the 574 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,160 iceberg, right? 10% floating above and then 90% 575 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,520 under the surface, right? So that's interesting. 576 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,400 I now, I'm going to do some more research into the Green Party 577 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,240 now and and I think again like this, this is coming a little 578 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,400 bit from like real things, but it's also a perception and I 579 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,440 think when you're in a political party, if you're thinking about 580 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,280 how to brand yourself, right, Yeah. 581 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,560 I think a lot about who are their intended, who is their 582 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,360 intended audience. And I think political parties 583 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,400 and governments sometimes maybe not so much government but 584 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,840 political parties make the mistake of thinking they're 585 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,680 speaking to everyone when in fact they are not like they 586 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,120 they're only speaking to people who are going to be their 587 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,800 engaged audience. But I always think like. 588 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:00,960 Who? Who is an engaged green 589 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,920 audience? Like who are the people they're 590 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,520 attracting if it's predominantly like old white people and a lot 591 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,760 of your young environmentalists who's tried to go there ended up 592 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,520 having to leave because they weren't respected, Like again, 593 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,280 look at the leadership issue in the federal Green Party. 594 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,080 They've got so much infighting and problems of their own. 595 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,080 It's do they have democratic processes even in their their 596 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,320 own party. And that's really a question for 597 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,160 every party because I personally have a lot of issues with the 598 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,560 federal and provincial NDP on that front as well. 599 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,360 Democracy is in their name, the new. 600 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:39,360 Democratic Party.