Welcome to Vancouver True Crime. I'm back With Shontelle focuses
on narcissistic abuse, psychopathy, and just basically
rotten people. You're you're involved with
someone who's rotten in their behavior, you're trying to break
free, and if you listen to my last podcasts.
We we've get into like the dynamics of this emotional abuse
and the glue and the stuff that ties you down and and sometimes
that that's saying it's hard to see the forest from the trees.
So hopefully in this conversation we can provide the
listening audience some clarity some resources and just
strategies of what to do if you're in an awful relationship
that could turn or is violent. If you've been listening to him
for a while, you know some of the cases I've done recently
have been. Worst and the most awful kind of
outcomes. So my goal is try to prevent the
listening audience if anyone's in this type of situation, to
prevent this. So thank you.
Thank you for coming back and it's a pleasure to have you.
Thank you so much. I really, truly believe that
knowledge is power. So my mission in life, I think
like yours is, is to educate people.
Because I think there's a real lack of education and knowledge
and awareness in society, which then trickles down to victims
who are in these relationships and may not even realize it's
abuse because it's not your stereotypical form of abuse.
Not all abuse leaves marks. Not all of these are hams.
A lot of it's very insidious and very covert.
It's the constant nitpicking and criticism.
Having said that, often times the leaving because it creates
such an abandonment wound for your abuser, escalates the
violence. So if you're if you've never
experienced fear because of there's never been a raised hand
or a fist, you leaving can trigger that Leaving is the
scariest part of the equation. Like just like a few I studied
you know cult indoctrination and a lot of this same type of
behavior it overlaps. Like we talked about the classic
love bombing. You meet Prince Charming he's
and then it's slowly you get conditioned and then after you
get conditioned and then you start accepting kind of a
situation that you normally wouldn't.
Maybe you have kids. Maybe your your everything in
your life is tied. Maybe it's isolation but.
The bottom line is it's it's hostility.
It comes down to being in a hostile environment when someone
doesn't really want the best interest for you.
And that's the tricky part, though.
We have to always remember that abusers are not horrible 100% of
the time. I like to call it the 8020 rule
80% of the time, and they intersperse the 80% with 20%
here and there. Little bread crumbs, little
morsels of affection and attention, which you, the
person, becomes then, really. Hopeful about you.
See the glimmer of what you first met?
What first attracted you to this person?
It's just enough to keep you engaged and not so much to make
you feel good about yourself. Because remember, they condition
you to feel really horrible about yourself and to lack
confidence and self esteem. Because then you are less likely
to leave if you felt good about yourself.
If you were rested and you weren't stressed and you were
clear headed, you would see more clearly what you're dealing
with. But because you're exhausted and
emotionally just drained and depleted and also physically
you, you stay because you're simply in survival mode.
I want to share something for when I was me again for the
audience. My my late wife passed away in
2020 and about six months. Into and her behavior change.
She had a a stroke but didn't tell anyone but she did have
other health issues as well that compounded.
So her behavior changed very rapidly and and very intensely
And at first you know I I didn't really know what was going on.
You know you think of stress maybe you know or your situation
you're in maybe you're you're making excuses.
I was making excuses for her, right.
But then I did this when I started researching like, you
know, it's like her behavior was beyond my capacity to understand
and to navigate. So, you know, again, I went
online, I started to research and I came across this lady who
said something. So if you're in a relationship
and each day you're in that relationship and you using a
weather symbol, right. If you have a nice day of that
person, you put a sunny, you know, it was a sunny day.
Everything was pleasant, Pleasant day, right?
If it was kind of crappy egg shells, maybe Gray clouds,
rainy, right? If it's fighting all out
fighting, maybe a lightning storm.
If it's an all out cops at the house, everything, you know,
hurricane or typhoon or natural disaster, right?
And then you start looking at the calendar, how many sunny
days you have? Well, and for me, when I started
doing that at a three months, I think I had 4 sunny days.
So that showed me a pattern like, OK, it's not me.
I'm trying to get along. I don't wanna fight.
I don't wanna bicker. I don't wanna go to bed
exhausted, feeling like you're so frustrated that you simply
can't even communicate with the person anymore.
So I guess the first stage, I guess the reason I brought it up
is awareness, right? Yeah, and you can always tell
that your relationship is not healthy when you have to start
Googling behavior. That truly, because of the
beauty of technology, you now have all these resources at your
fingertip and when you are starting to have to Google what
you're experiencing, that's a giant red flag that the
behavior, the environment, the relationship, quote, UN quote
that you're in. Is not a healthy one.
And to really pay attention to the cycles, right, to really
document. I love to tell people to journal
because it's really hard to see the forest for the trees when
you're in this type of relationship because again,
you're so emotionally exhausted and your memory isn't good and
you're in survival mode, so you're just trying to get
through every day. But if you can, journal.
You can start to see patterns of behavior and you'll just like
you said, you can start to see that there's more negative than
positive. Really.
At the end of the day, your partner, quote, UN quote, is
supposed to support you. Yes, there's going to be hard
days. No relationship is perfect.
Even the most healthy, tightly bonded couples go through ups
and downs, right? That's the.
Norm, of course, yeah. It's life.
But when you wake. Up.
And before you open your eyes, you think, What am I waking up
to today? Am I going to get the person
that I fell in love with or am I going to get this?
Jekyll and Mr. Hyde are unsure as to before you open your eyes
what you're going to get into. That's a real sign that this
relationship is past the point of just being unhappy.
It's really starting to enter into the unhealthy, possibly
toxic, most likely abusive. Me, speaking personally, I don't
think there's anything in my life that was more exhausting.
You know, I've worked in tough jobs.
I've worked as an ironworker on construction sites, I've worked
in bars. I work crazy corporate
environments with toxicity and startups that were, you know, 15
hour a day, seven days a week. You know, something's putting 90
hours and I can thrive. And stress, I've been, I've been
in a lot of stressful. Environments.
But being in an environment where the person that you chose
to share your life with is pitted against you and trying to
convince you what a terrible, shitty person you are, but
you're lucky to have them, right?
I will never, ever do that again.
Here's the. Thing people can endure all
sorts of stress outside in the world, right?
The world is a stressful place just by nature.
By default, work is a, you know, stressful.
Financially, it's super stressful.
But here's the thing. Your home life is supposed to be
your port. It's supposed to be your safe
place. It's supposed to be where you
come back to recharge your battery so that you can go back
out into the world and deal with the stressors of being an adult
and a child, right? If your home life is depleting
your battery and you come home and you are feeling more
exhausted at home in the outside world.
That, again, is a giant red flag, because your house is
supposed to be peaceful. It's supposed to be calm.
It's supposed to be. You should not fear speaking
your mind, having an opinion, expressing your needs and wants
with your partner. A healthy partner may not always
agree with you, but you can come to, you know.
We can agree to disagree and there's no harm and there's no
hurt feelings. There's no way.
For silent treatment, when you start to filter and monitor what
you say for fear of how that might come across to your
partner. Again, a giant red flag.
This is most likely not a healthy relationship, but more
than likely possibly even an abusive one.
And remember, abuse is not just physical, and it's not just.
Yelling. So many people stay in
relationships that are very, very abusive because there's no
physical and there's no outward rage.
There's no, like, yelling and screaming and name calling.
Smarter ones? They know that if they're
yelling, scream. That could be caught on tape and
that can someone else can hear it and witness it hitting some,
you know, evidence. Oh, you hit me.
There's a mark, right? But I find like the really good
abusers are good at just vibing you dirty looks sideways looks
silent treatment. You ask them a direct question,
they just walk away, don't answer.
Oh, and then if you ask and hear you, sorry.
Like it was those really covert ones.
Those are the ones that are tricky because.
Again, as a society we typically associate domestic violence.
Even even that term is really confusing for people because it
has the word violence in it, right?
So people think violence means blood means bruises.
Yeah, bashed in the head. Right, but it's.
Everything that makes you feel fearful and everything that
diminishes your ability to strive.
It's every word, every action, every eye roll, every sigh.
Every Roll your eyes when they talk 0.
Right, as a one off, we all don't act beautifully all the
time, right? But when there's a repeated
pattern of behavior where this is their go to when you don't do
what they want to do and remember.
Their goal posts are constantly moving, so one day they like
their steak medium rare. You've become the grill master
and you've got the, you know, your grill marks just so.
And it's beautiful medium rare. And so you've honed this skill
because you've been conditioned that if it's not just this way,
you're gonna be ignored. They're gonna.
You know, put you down in small ways.
They come home and they say, I don't like my steak this way.
How could you not know this, right?
And then so your goal posts are constantly changing that creates
this pervasive fear atmosphere. What is it going to be today?
What do I have to do to make sure that they are happy And so
and you can tell in this type of family dynamic, everybody
behaves. To address one person, it's like
they're the son and the world revolves.
Yeah, yeah, I've seen that so many times.
And in these types of dynamics, a healthy, protective parent.
So say it's me. So I'm the mom.
I have a husband and I have three kids.
And I love my children more than anybody else in the whole wide
world. But I now put my husband.
Right above my children, I cater to him more than I cater to my
children's means. Why?
Because I'm living in fear. If I don't make sure that he's
happy, we all suffer, right? So it's a reversal of roles
because truly you would put your children before, but in this
type of dynamic your everyone's focus is on making this one
person happy. Oh, totally.
I've seen like, just such cringy stuff like that too.
Like, I remember this one family I friends with.
Every time the husband went to work, it was just like, you
think he was going off to war off on the front lines.
The mom, the oldest daughter, they'd greet him at the door and
take walk him to the door way when he gets in his truck.
Oh, like he's going to fight the.
You know what I mean? It was just like every single
time. I'm like, wow, remember, like he
would be walking to a truck and the oldest daughter would yell.
Dad's leaving, Dad's leaving call call.
But it was so over the top. Yeah, it was so over the top.
It was so and he just see, oh, you just gross.
Like it was gross. And the guy was such a loser
too, right? Right and. 0 Personalities
always in a bad moods. Not always.
Like giving you that sideways look like, I don't know about
you, OK, I. Know about us because this type
of personality also always assumes that everyone is as
duplicitous and devious as them, right?
They're hyper paranoid because they.
Usually, like, have no issues throwing you under the bus.
They would throw their own mom under the bus if it got them
some sort of game, right? So they assume that if they're
cheating, you're cheating, which is why they project on to you,
right? A really huge clue too that I
see with a lot of my clients is you can tell this person is
toxic, abusive when they leave when they're not in the home,
like say they have them like a work trip for three days and.
The energy level just dissipates and.
Yeah, everyone's happy, right? Like people can actually.
Like you can actually physically see like the sigh of like.
Yeah, he's gone the ogre's gone the.
Converse happens when they're expected to come back right?
People start to get more on edge, more nervous, more snippy,
more reactive, because they know that the moment this person
comes back through the door, the atmosphere is going to change,
right? For sure.
Yeah, I know. I've seen a lot like over the
years like that, exactly what the scenario you're talking
about, where everyone's happy, everyone's 05 o'clock, Oh my
God, dad's coming home or whomever.
And then and then it does the whole atmosphere, just like the
air gets charged and it's like you can't breathe as you know
you feel like you're, you can feel the anxiety in the air.
Totally. Everyone's nervous.
Environment, right? Like, I equate it to if you're
raised in a home where your parents.
Are chronic indoor smokers. You don't notice that the air
quality in your house is so toxic, right?
Like, literally, it's toxic until you have opportunities to
leave your home and go to other people's homes where the air is
actually. Healthy.
And you think, Oh my gosh, this is what it feels like, Like this
is actually. When you're in it, it becomes
normalized, right? Why?
Like when people especially don't have to deal with the
raised voices or the hitting or the physical part, it could
always be worse. Well, you know, he doesn't hit
me or she's not calling me. Names all day, every day, right?
So. It's not that.
Bad. Like I have it pretty good.
This is just how families. Work right?
Like families can be dysfunctional.
It's totally normal to keep secrets.
It's totally normal to not have friends over or just socialize
with people. This becomes normalized in these
toxic family systems. For sure.
Well, like, like we're saying in the beginning, right again, you
pick a partner because they're supposed to enhance your life,
you're supposed to coexist and and then when they become like
your greatest enemy at the end of the day, that's still another
way to boil it down because. You wouldn't accept friendships
like that. Or even if your boss talked to
you the way like these, you know some of these these situations,
you just be appalled and say OK, I'm putting in my 2 weeks
notice, you can't talk to me like that.
So a lot of times at what I see is behavior that won't be
accepted in any other part of their life, they're accepting
it. Into another part of life.
For me, that was the hardest part.
Because it was, yeah, yeah, it was this because it was against
your, against your whole principles and stuff.
For me, cause like an implosion, because it's like you're
accepting this behavior, it's making you feel worse, but
somehow you feel trapped in it, right?
Well, that's what I say to my clients and I say, and I post
this like on like my social is we hold parents to a much lower.
Standard of care than we do complete strangers.
If a teacher was to treat children the way that these
adult parents treat their children, If a psychologist was
to treat their children clients, the way that this abusive parent
treats their their child, they'd get disbarred.
They'd get criminal charges laid against them, right.
But because it's the child's parent, we allow it.
I mean judges all over the world.
Allow abuse of parents to have access to their children because
it's their parent. It's almost like children are
property to be divided. Yeah, and.
They even rights themselves because they're just children.
They don't know what they're talking about.
It's always in the child's best interest to have access to both
parents. Talked a little bit before we
started. It's like.
I think for a lot of people, including myself, until like
what the last five years of my life, I still felt I had pretty
rose colored glasses about the system.
You need a problem, you have a serious problem.
You can call the police. They'll be there to help you.
Family law show. Oh, let's get a good lawyer.
They'll sort it all out and maybe it's because of the
pandemic, maybe a whole bunch of other factors.
But to my surprise and shock as I, you know, venture more into
this stuff. How badly the system is broken
and how contrary for what it is that you're taught is a shock to
most people. And it's still is a shock to me
is some of the stuff I've been going through.
It's just like completely. I can't even believe that I'm in
this reality because this is nothing like the reality that I
was taught and I think. That big problem is that people
assume that leaving is the hardest part and then once they
leave and society also puts a tremendous burden on people.
Right. If you stay, you're damaging
your children. You have to get out, right?
So this, this innate presumption that by believing, you're going
to have Social Security Nets in place to help.
You right. And every There is maybe like 1%
of my clients who happen upon great lawyers and get great
results in court educated judges, right?
But the vast majority of the people that I work with come to
me after they've made. The wrong choices, right,
Because they just don't know. They assume that social workers
are going to be educated, that judges are going to be educated,
that there's proof of domestic violence.
So obviously that's going to be taken into consideration.
And their spouse who's abusive is going to lose parenting
privileges, right? And I see it time and time
again. They leave and it's like leaving
a lamb to slaughter. They.
Just get mobilized by the system and they get traumatized because
they go into it naive like everybody else who just.
Including myself. Right.
Those who are outside, who have not had to engage with the
system, naively assume for all guilty of this until you
actually engage in this that it's going to help victims and
it's not going to revictimize them and retraumatize them.
But like I said, it's like 1% of the population who leaves, who
actually gets the right people at the right time and are able
to actually win their case and protect their children
themselves. The vast majority of people go
into this assuming. That it's going to be helpful
for them and that they're going to get the support and they're
let down time and time again, which is why knowledge is power,
education is key, and before you even leave.
I can't stress this enough, and I know it's because I'm in the
industry and it's what I do. But you need to secure expert
support before you even hire your lawyer, because your lawyer
is your second most valuable advocate.
And if you hired the wrong lawyer, that is going to cost
you time and money that you don't.
Have and could potentially cost you your children.
Oh for sure, absolutely. I agree 100%.
You know again I'm not going to really get breakdown all the
crazy stuff I've been through, but but anyways, all I can say
if I agreeing with you, if I met you 3-4 years ago, I think you
could avoid it. A lot of BS that I've been going
through personally I. Get this all the time from
people. I wish I'd met you last year.
I wish I'd met you six months ago.
This is why I put myself out there and you don't even have to
hire me. I'm not even just an advocate
for me. I mean, I think I do a fantastic
job and I'm one of the best in the industry, but hire somebody
who is an expert in this field, truthfully.
And I don't even care who you hire, just hire somebody who's
going to guide you through the process.
Because yes, your job in leaving is to protect yourself and your
children. And by not taking that really
important step, everything else is inconsequential.
Because you'll make the wrong decisions, because you just
don't know. For you know, Alex passed when
Alexandra was my late wife. She would have like, psychotic
breaks. Cops had come to the house.
I was calm because you know, I didn't want to go to jail.
I wasn't causing any fights. I wasn't yelling, so I'd
interact. The cops talk to him calmly.
The cops were really good. They didn't escalate the
situation and she would just still be screaming like from the
roof beams like this. It just real as dramatic, as
dramatic and be all every single time that I think they came 4 *
/ a three month period, all four times.
The good cops arrived. They didn't try to escalate it.
They didn't try to stir up the pot.
So I had a good impression. Thank God, right.
In that case, because God, if they put her in handcuffs, Oh my
God, I couldn't imagine what would happen because she was
completely, like, having psychotic breaks right then.
When she passed away at Royal Columbian Hospital, The social
worker there, the people there, the resources were absolutely
phenomenal, absolutely fun of nothing terrible to say.
And and then everyone I dealt with after that, we were amazing
few years later needed the system again and it was a
complete opposite. Like it was almost like how, you
know, like what I'm saying is that you have these very
different experiences. So I was prepared like Oh no,
they they're, you know, they're they will help.
They they're good because I had these positive experiences and
maybe because of the pandemic, you know, it could be a factor
but. I think it's important for the
listeners, and I can't emphasize this enough, as great as your
evidence, you have the Diaries, the the videotape and it's
important to have that because the more that you can
collaborate your story, the system is not crying to victims.
And that's what from doing this platform from the hundreds and
hundreds of cases. Working with victims, families
that have had the worst, you know, outcomes possible.
Working directly with victims, families, one thing that's
universal, that they all cross the board, cross the country,
the system, victimize them as much as a perpetrator.
Almost worse because you expect the system to support you.
You've already been traumatized and you've already been
victimized. And then to be revictimized by
the very system that set in place to protect you and your
children is more traumatic because it's just an ongoing it
enables. See, the system is designed to
enable, embolden and empower abusers.
Abusers do very well in the system because they present
really well. They can be charming and
charismatic when they need to be.
Typically, victims who are not educated about the system go
into this thinking that they can just speak their truth and just
be who they are and. I think truth's on your side.
You're just going to, you know, present the facts and.
Yep. There's so much to be said in
how you present, right? And it's unfortunate because
you're a victim and you're emotional and you're exhausted
and you're depleted and you're stressed and you're worried
about the most important thing in the world, and that is your
children and so. That is on the line.
Like truly, your children's lives are on the line.
And so you come across and I see it time and time again.
There is no judgment in the statement.
You come across as crazy, unhinged, overly emotional,
reactive, a judge, just these two people and unfortunately.
Because of. Society, we think it takes 2 to
tango. There's that really pervasive
attitude. It takes 2 to tango.
It's an incompatibility issue between two adults.
You separate the adults and the anything that was toxic or
abusive will be gone. The children will not be
affected. They're affected because the two
of you are together. So if you, the children will no
longer suffer. Both people will deescalate and
become healthy individuals. They see two people, your ex,
the abuser presents really calmly, unemotional, really
articulate, really, You know, they know how to pander and
cater to their audience. You come across as really
reactive and volatile. They see two people, they look
at you and they say. That's the issue right there.
Right. And I see so many people who
even lose their children, right? They lose their children because
they have made mistakes that so many people make.
But it's just the perfect storm of too many mistakes, The wrong
lawyer, the wrong evidence, the wrong communication, the wrong
presentation, the wrong strategy and planning.
And they go in court and game over.
Yeah. And you know what?
As I said five years ago, I think, oh, your knees are the
worst case scenarios. Me, You know, Right.
No. And.
Here's The thing is, so many people come out and live great
lives. But.
So many people go in and then are pulverized and they are a
fraction of the person they were even when they left their
abuser. Because truly, the most
important thing to these people are their children.
So when their children are. Suffering and in pain when their
children turn against them. When their children come back
belligerent and rude because they're forced to cohabitate
with an abuser, it is. It strips them of their
humanity. It does and it does and think
what is the betrayal that does too because it's saying again
like like I I mentioned this on another podcast and.
You know, way that my mind works, and maybe I'm foolish,
but you just say this. You put a decade into somebody
and you've been through all their trials and error and
support and death of loved ones and family members.
And you know, you, you, you spend a decade with anyone you
know, ups and downs and stuff like that.
But been there with them. And you think that's going to
create like some loyal he's this from the psychopath narcissic
spectrum. And they weaponize that against
you. And so, so a normal person, even
if it even if you're having conflict, they could
differentiate maybe the things that the things about you that
bother them, where narcissists like they'll take the things
that are important to you and then they turn around and
weaponize you. So if you care about your kids,
although these are kids, the if you care about your family or
your family's lunatics and that's why you're crazy because
your family's crazy because all the things he told me, they,
they cherry pick things. And then they build this case
and then they attack you and rip you apart, right?
So. And for.
The average person, that's that's pretty harsh, right?
You never have been through that and.
Fathom that parents can do that to children, right?
We all think again. The pervasive attitude in
society is that all parents love their children.
They don't. I will die on this platform and
I will stand by this until the day that I die.
And that is unequivocally false. Not.
All parents. Love their children.
And that is such a horrible thing for me to have come to.
I am the biggest proponent of love.
I am the most optimistic person there is.
I really believe in the goodness of everybody.
I'm here to tell you that I am reformed.
I do. Not see the good.
People I have seen the worst and these people truly have no
qualms or issues. Using their children to hurt
their spouse. And they all do it.
No matter how your divorce ends, no matter how the finances, when
the money is split because that's the biggest issue for
them is money. When that money is split and you
think now I can breathe a sigh of relief, guess what?
It's not. Over.
Now they're going to turn their focus onto your children.
And they do. And nobody believes me because
nobody wants to believe this. Right.
And if you aren't prepared for that, then guess what?
The next 10 to 18 years is going to be a quagmire of horrible
stuff that you are not prepared for.
You have to anticipate their tactics so you can mitigate
their tactics and your children. Will fight dirty.
They'll they'll smear. They'll get other people
involved. They'll.
Turn your children against you. Scorched Earth 2.
Eyes like my own two eyes. They will take a child who was
heavily bonded to their parent, and in a short amount of time
they will turn that child against the parent so that the
child no longer even wants to be with that parent, ever.
And if they're forced? Yeah, then.
They will. So Chantelle, let's talk about
this then let's So this is a scenario of someone who's been
with a partner for a very long time.
Let's say they even, you know, cases where they met someone in
their teens. And the conditioning is so like
they've had years to do their brainwashing, their Charlie
Manson mind control techniques and.
Brainwashing. Yeah, these people are like
brainwashing. Organization that does this sort
of stuff. It's the same sort of tactics
the same. Yeah, totally.
So a person like that, let's say they're slowly waking up that
you could have like, say 15 minutes with them.
What would be like Like they're just starting to realize that
hey, this sucks, I need to get out of this crap.
Is that you absolutely can get out, and it's overwhelming and
scary, especially because you've been brainwashed to believe that
you're incapable of life outside of this relationship.
Truly, that is, their goal is to make you so attached to them and
so dependent on them that even though you know it's bad.
It's better to be with the devil you know than the devil you
don't, so you stay. You first have to understand
that it is possible to have a great life despite this abuse
and that it's everybody stays because they're paralyzed by
fear and overwhelm and uncertainty.
They don't know what to do. You need to be strategic.
You need to plan. So unless safety is an issue,
like an imminent issue that you need to address, then you just
have to leave. Just leave without anything.
There is no safety issue at the moment.
You need to go into this prepared and truthfully again,
you need to hire somebody like me of my caliber who can
expertly prepare you for the exit so that when you actually
have that talk and leave, you have prepared everything.
You are strategic in your thinking.
You are making decisions based on knowledge and not from a
place of fear so that you can exit and then continue on life
and yes. They don't ever change.
They're going to continue. But guess what?
You will change. That's the piece of the equation
that's so important. They will never change.
You can't control them. You can't change them.
Stop focusing on them. Put all your focus on you by
changing your perspective and understanding that you have a
lot more power than you've been led to believe and to really
focus and harness that power and to come really into your truth
and your boundaries. And again, always thinking
strategically and planning, not living in fear, but anticipating
what's going to come down the pipeline and hopefully have
having done the work beforehand to avoid the real big blowouts,
right. There's always going to be fuse.
But again, you learn to not engage, right?
You've been conditioned to engage every time they say Boo,
you say what would you like now And if you actually do these
pieces and you actually are strategic in your exit.
Your chance of surviving and thriving exponentially goes up,
and you can avoid all the issues that so many people come upon
because they just don't know, right?
That's why expert support is so key, because nobody anticipates
it getting worse. They think that leaving is the
hardest part and once they leave, it's going to get easier.
I'm here to tell you, not as a. Debbie Downer or doomsdayer, it
gets worse. It always gets worse before it
gets better. And if you make a plan and
you're strategic in your exit, that you can avoid a lot of
these pitfalls that so many people make.
And this, I think this is a good piece for the listener to
understand. So when I was in, again I'm
using analogy in business world. I was in corporate sales and I
had this woman who was with my boss.
She was amazing. She probably taught me some of
the best. Sales and business development
techniques of anyone and one of the things she always emphasizes
having cooperation with someone in your in my case, when I'm
trying to deal with even a difficult client, if these
cooperating and maybe a little bit personality clash, that's
one thing. There's cooperation.
We're trying to get something done together.
We're trying to get on the same page.
There might be some negotiation differences, but the cooperation
means that I can work with you. Right.
When there's no cooperation, you hit a wall.
And then it's sort of like, am I even wasting my time with this
client when I could be dealing with a client that could be
cooperating with me? So I took that into my personal
life, right? And then personal life.
If a person does not want to cooperate with you, no matter
how reasonable, like in my case, like when I was at my worst and
my relationship when it was at its bottom.
I was £280 from all the binge eating and not sleeping and
running around chasing toddlers with no help.
I felt horrible. I used to have to like, hey, I
haven't had a shower in two days.
Can you watch the kids so I can have a shower?
Oh, maybe when I get back and then take off in the car and not
come back for four hours when you know what I mean.
So that they can't even cooperate with you.
And you have like I have a 50 minute shower, something that
that's the most reasonable thing that should be like a.
Red flag. So someone's not cooperating
with you, right? Then you step back and you ask
her, why are they cooperating this to be a jerk, to make my
life miserable. What's the underlining?
Motive. Right.
So for me, you know, getting known that I'm healthy, that's a
huge thing. If if I can't get someone to
cooperate with me, I just okay. No, thanks.
Yeah, You know what I mean? And here's The thing is, you
said something really important and this is like a real key
because your inner health. Is manifested in your outward
health and so many people in these relationships, they're
either too underweight because they just can't eat, or they're
overweight because, again, your you are very bottom of the
equation. Your needs come last.
Your good parents and your children come way above you and
your. Unhealthy, toxic, abusive spouse
comes above them, right? So you have no time and you have
no passions and you have no hobbies, and you are probably
isolated and don't feel good about yourself.
You've been conditioned to believe what they're saying to
you, which is that you are subpar in every single way.
And even if you go into this type of relationship again, so
many people think it's weak, people that are attracted to
these people. I'm here to tell you that people
from very healthy families who were raised in a loving home,
people who are very educated and successful and beautiful and
handsome and and charming. They fall prey to these people.
So it's not just the week, but you're conditioned overtime to
simply submit. It's easier to go along and get
along than it is to put up a fight.
And so your health at the end of it, your mental health, your
emotional health, your spiritual health, your relational health,
and your physical health will all suffer.
You might have sleeping issues. Your hair might fall out.
You might have eczema. You might have thyroid issues.
You might have irritable bowel syndrome.
All these things are signs. That your environment is toxic
and the only way to thrive is to remove yourself from the
toxicity. That's it.
You can't survive. Cancer.
I can't emphasize it. It's like cancer rely from the.
Inside out. Yeah, absolutely.
Stress kills chronic stress in your entire relationship.
Even when it's good, it's still stressful because you know at
any given moment the good times might come to an abrupt end.
And the monster that you've been conditioned to see will rear its
head. For whatever reason, you put the
cutlery wrong on the table. You didn't bathe the kids with
the right bubble bath. You forgot to compliment them on
their new haircut, right? So even when it's good, it's
still bad and still stressful. You're waiting with bated breath
for the okay. Now this is the person that I've
gotten used to right, the person who belittles me and criticizes
me. And sometimes they don't even
have to say horrible things. It's lace to me in like a joke.
Right, for sure. Yeah, it's my comments or.
Right. And then and then if you don't
laugh because it's not funny and it's hurtful and you feel hurt,
they say things like you just can't take a joke, you're so.
Sexy. You have low self esteem you
should really go to therapy to address.
That, you know, they're always good at diagnosing stuff as
well, right? Which is kind of, I find, I find
that pattern. Really.
No way. I've got depression.
Yeah. For the likes of you.
So many people develop anxiety and depression because of these
relationships, right? These relationships cause all
sorts of chronic health issues that don't totally what you
mean, right? If you don't address the stress
through your divorce and your separation, and you don't create
strong boundaries and seek to heal yourself, the stress will
literally kill you. People get very sick.
If someone starved of affection, let's say, you know, in case
like, you know, you haven't had any embassy for three months,
it's just been fighting, it's crazy, it's this insult and then
that person can turn on the charm like a fire hose and
that's like a drug, right? You know, I'm sure I've been
under so much stress and. You know, the excuses even sound
reasonable at the time. And and, and, and for my case,
right, I didn't even want like, even like.
I wasn't even looking for that. In the end.
I just wanted normalcy. Just like what?
What would be just like the most basic.
You know standard of coexisting with now this high bar, it was
this high watermark right? Where I'm so underwater and like
the condition. The discussion, right?
So yes, you're no longer asking for like, hand holding, like for
your specific love language to be met.
You're just asking for basic human decency.
Yeah. Decency, yeah.
Is like asking for the world, right?
And aren't you happy? I provide for you, or I do so
much and I'm here. And so you become accepted of
the bread crumbs and they become a feast for you because you're
ravenous. You would not have accepted this
in your prior life. You would.
Have been like, absolutely. Not right.
But you've been conditioned. They don't start out this way.
And they. They start out mirroring what
you like, Love bombing, future faking.
They really, really pay attention to you and what you're
saying. If you want a big family, guess
what? They want a big.
Family all their life, yeah. That's what they believe in.
Loyalty. If you like the color pink,
guess what? Oh my gosh.
Oh, my favorite color color is the.
Color pink too? Yeah.
Everything that you say they pick up and they pay attention
to. They are stalking you like prey.
They are the prey, you. Are the prey, and they're
picking up on all your micro cues as to what makes.
What's important to you? Right.
And then they mirror that back to you, so you're actually
falling in love with yourself. So strange.
That's how awesome you are. Yeah, so.
Awesome at the beginning that this person is mirroring back
and you're thinking, wow, that person's really awesome because
you're awesome and overtime they gradually decrease.
All of their attention and affection, they start to ghost
you, so you work harder. Yeah, or the what they call the
yo yoing. I've been seeing this, this
phenomena where it's like they pop in your life, everything's
all cheery. Communicate with them again.
Oh, you're too shitty. You're terrible, OK?
Yeah. In the industry, if you have no
children attached and you divorce or you separate or you
and the relationship, you go like cold Turkey.
There's zero communication, right, Because anytime they get
to infiltrate you. You are literally coming off of
the high of a drug. You're addicted to the cycle of
abuse, as as sick as that sounds.
You are addicted to the highs and the lows.
Your body responds by releasing chemicals that feel good.
Right. Yeah, so.
You literally are addicted to them, so leaving them is like
cutting a habit cold Turkey. It's like ending your heroin
addict love affair with heroin or cocaine or whatever.
Your drug of choices is the same.
You'll go through withdrawal symptoms, which is why people.
Did I make the right choice person who then tries to love
bomb you back into the fold and they're saying all the right
things and you're thinking, oh, that feels really good, yeah.
You said though, you said something very important, right?
And they were just preferencing it again.
Glad I don't do online dating. It would just seem like a bloody
nightmare. I just would have zero patience
for it. Dream.
Area but it's it's a blunt stage in my life right.
I just, you know, I just, I I couldn't do, I don't know.
Just that's another conversation.
But anyways, so like, maybe I'll give an example.
Before I met and Alex. Before I met Alexandra, working
at an amazing job downtown, had a fancy job.
I was making good money. I had a place in kits, you know,
everything perfect on paper. So OK, well, I'm single.
I'm going to go on some dates. Every day that I went to was
just, you know, nice on paper, attractive of in photo, but just
like the most. Bland personality show up or or
or My favorite one. This is this one's funny.
I go on a date for lady first date.
All she would talk about is how her friend went on a first date
and the guy bought her a $5000 coach purse this but kept going
back to that subject. Oh it shows such a nice purse.
So I just looked at her point blank and said okay, I'll buy
you the I'll buy you the purse. However, I want you to do
something in return. I want you to donate $500 to a
food bank and I'll buy you a $5000 purse.
She looked at me like home when I get $500.
Oh, you want go? Hey, fine.
That's my offer. Take it or leave it.
Never talk to her ever again. So then you meet someone that
doesn't care about all that stuff.
They like you like. You said you like coffee.
They're a coffee connoisseur, you know what I mean?
We're into work and oh, they want to get through.
Of really horrible dates and experiences.
And you can meet this weekend, right?
And they are attractive to your eye.
First of all, because we're all people who look at people and
think, oh, that's a tasty looking cupcake, right?
The frosting looks really great, right?
And then you start to peel back the layers of the frosting and,
oh, the cake is kind of delicious too, right?
They're saying all the things that I like.
They like all the same things. We have a lot in common.
Wow. In this desert of dating, I
found the Oasis. Yeah, somebody enjoyed being
time with, you know, just doing, doing like this normal every
day. Oh, it's hanging out the beach,
watching the sunset where the other person's like, well, the
last boyfriend bought me a $500 bottle of tequila or whatever
there was like, I felt like it went on a lot of dates.
No matter what you did from, they'd always mentioned what
someone else oh, like even this person who he met, a person
that's in venture capitalism. They went on their first date.
They went on a private jet. Oh, that's wonderful for this
invisible person I never met. Thank you for bringing it up
right on a first. Person who who is the predator
will pay attention, if that's important to you, of being the
person who buys your partner these beautiful things as a
show, like look at me. I'm so amazing and I can take
care of people that I can. I will.
I'll buy you the Ferrari and I'll buy you the Louis Vuitton
and I will put the Rolex on your wrist tonight.
Right, because I take great pleasure in the outward
displays. But if you.
Come across the person who might have the trappings of success,
but you're really humble and you're really just about
smelling the roses and the venusia and life, right?
Finding the happiness in the small things.
That person who would really like you to buy them a
Lamborghini, by the way, and the purse and the big house.
And because they're all about money.
Will hone in on the humility and really like to do simple things
and picnics at the beach with homemade things and does not
require a lot of money and shops that value village because why
buy new when I can save the planet by buying used, right?
Altruistic. Yes.
Yes, right. They, they know exactly how to
manipulate. Because again, a lot of these
people, not all, but a lot of these people have adapted this
way as a maladaptive coping mechanism to trauma and
childhood. Not all.
Some of them are just raised to the entitled people who take,
take, take and don't give, give, give.
So many have adapted this way. So the older they are, the more.
Expert they become at manipulating people, at greeting
people. They're really good poker
players, by the way. They can kill your cues, right?
They look at you and see like, oh, he didn't say that.
That's really important to him, but his eyes lit up when he
talked about children. Right.
So he might want to be a dad. I'm going to talk about that
right now. I've always wanted to have a
family. They're really good at doing
that. And so all of a sudden you get
this beautiful person who is saying all the right things and
you're. Charmed.
And then they keep reeling you in, right?
It's not like they become horrible the next day.
No, they. Keep showing you.
They keep presenting. They're like Peacocks.
They're showing you their beautiful foliage.
You're thinking, wow, this person like every day.
It's just better. They're really giving.
They ask about my day. They're really involved in my
feelings. They're doing all the right
things. It's once you're hooked in and
you're attached to them, you're trauma bonded that then they
start to deplete you of all that's good, yeah.
Yeah, here comes a mask and the first kind of like, whoa, what?
And they'll test you along the way right with small things to
see how far they can push you. Where is your boundary edge?
Right. Yes.
And then when they get too far, they'll reel it back in and then
again say all the right things to get you like okay.
Well, they were just having a bad day today.
That's not who they really are. For sure.
So again, I bring this stuff up because again, I like to think
I'm a pretty. Clever, capable person.
But again, I can have, I've been in toxic relationships and like
you said, they do not start off that way.
And then sometimes too, and I think this is important too,
when I look back at some of my other relationships that were
toxic, I wasn't at a good place myself.
You know, I was going through stuff, maybe rebounding maybe,
you know, life and then I sometimes that that you attract
to kind of like who you are a little bit too, if that makes
sense, right. Yeah, which is why when you
leave these kind of relationships.
Truly, and people do it backwards.
They put their kids first and not themselves.
But you have to put on your own oxygen mask first.
If you don't, put yourself 1st and take excellent care of
yourself on every level. Emotional like therapy,
physical. Really.
Pump yourself full of good supplements and good nutrients
and move your body. Doesn't have to be you know.
Expensive gyms. It can just be going for walks.
Work out at home. Right.
Whatever it is that brings you joy in movement, whatever that
is, right? Do that.
Connect with your people because you've been isolated, right?
Even if they haven't taken you away from your community, I can
guarantee you're not telling your friends and your family how
this person is treating you horribly.
Everybody feels guilt and shame, right?
So they minimize. Absolutely what's going on?
Absolutely it is. Because you think through the
bear thing happen. For sure.
For me it was embarrassing. It was humiliating looking in
the mirror, not even recognize who I was.
And for me, just so you know, personally, for me, until I got
control over my health, like when, when, when it got to the
point where I was feeling like okay, I came close to having a
heart attack couple of times, including having the fire trucks
come to my house and taken to the hospital.
That was a pretty wake up call for me.
So for me, it was like I gotta regain control of my health
again. So I just started eating as
healthy can vitamins, you know, because I knew that would
mitigate the stress, right? For me, it was getting control
back on the health. And then of course, you know, I
gotta accuse it. You're just a narcissist.
You're just so into yourself, right?
So I just like you. Well, guess what?
After you, I don't care. Rejection, Right.
They will never say that they are that type of person, but
that's what they're saying. To you totally right.
To their accusations. Their accusations are the
closest you're ever gonna get to a confession.
So if they accuse you of cheating, guess who's cheating?
If they accuse you of being an abuser, guess who's an abuser?
If they accuse you of anything, that's what they're doing.
Again, they're so paranoid and anything that takes attention
off of them. So how dare you, Mark put
attention on yourself? I know attention.
On yourself. It means that you have less time
to put on to her. Right.
Yes, absolutely. Totally.
Your entire world should be about serving this person to the
best of your ability. Exactly.
No, I agree 100% your services, because I do feel from all the
conversations we've had and then my research and even with other
guests is that more and more I understand the importance of
having your services right. Because again, this is the most
treacherous things I've in my lifetime.
I'm just saying I've been through a lot of stuff in my
life. Nothing came close to the
destruction of me than this in my life.
And and going into it acted to happen to you.
So it's not like you have a big thick handbook on how to deal
with narcissist the size of a phone book or information
online. But, you know, not all the
information online is good. And in my opinion, I feel that
sometimes narcissism is used too much of an umbrella term.
You know what I mean? I use it sometimes as a catchall
phrase for this shitty behavior. Excuse my language, right?
Yeah, but but at the same time, you know, there are people on
this, on this spectrum. Some of them are psychopaths,
some are borderline personality. Sometimes it's just just, you
know, bad wiring, brain damage. It could be a multiple reasons
why someone has ill behavior. But however bad behavior that's
unchecked, that's projected on you in a partner type of
relationship where you're supposed to feel safe and secure
and you know all your resources are all pulled together for your
family and it's like there's nothing in the world that
prepared me for that. So maybe let's break down the
the type of things that you can do and then the most, the most
extreme and then on like the lighter spectrum that that you
can help people with. Because I think it's important
for another reason too. You're also like a a witness,
like a third party that's going on.
So it's not like older mother seeing the stuff or their
brother. It's someone saying, no, I've
actually seen this person being abused.
They are, you know what I mean? I think that's powerful too.
So I think, depending on what kind of abuse you're injuring, I
think all people have emotional abuse.
Even if there isn't always the physical.
There's certainly the emotional, but if you have the physical,
there's also the emotional. I I haven't seen a case yet
where the two are divorced if you have physical abuse.
I always recommend that people find a domestic violence worker,
which you typically get when you've had to use the police to
mitigate the abuse, right. So the police are called, yeah,
they will connect you with a person who can guide you from
that end. What I do is blanket help for
everybody in this area, and I have clients who come to me at
all parts of their separation process.
And so that is really effective, but it's really hard to undo
damage that's already been done. So I can be still very effective
and I do have lots of clients who are divorced and still
utilizing my services or come to me after their divorce and I
help them that way. But what I have realized in my
time is that there needs to be more preventative approach.
And so I've created like we've talked about my 12 week program
and that is taking a person who is ready to leave but doesn't
know how to make that happen. And in the 12 weeks I front load
you with all the information, I literally hold your hand.
So you you see me every week for an hour and a half of private
consultation and I literally walk you through every step.
So it's 3 stages. The first stage is the plan.
And so I help you prepare to leave.
I help you hire your lawyer and how to utilize your lawyer.
I help you have the talk with your spouse if safety is not an
issue, and then the talk with your children and I equip you
with the post separation abuse spectrum so that you know what
you're getting into. I truly believe that knowledge
is power. So that's stage one.
Stage two is the legal stuff and that's called the strategy and
that's where you learn to create a good parenting plan.
You learn to prepare for court and mediation.
Remember, we talked about preparation as key people who go
in like lambs to slaughter. Get slaughtered.
So I prepare you for that stuff. I teach you how to document
effectively. I teach you how to communicate
effectively so that you can then document that communication
effectively. And the most important part?
That's the end of the program. Stage 3, which is the
implementation, is where you learn to protect yourself, your
family, your home, and your children.
Because they will always go after your kids.
And nobody wants to tear this, Nobody wants to believe this.
But as you and I both know, yeah, that is the ultimate way
to hurt a healthy protective parent is by going after the
children. Oh, and so I teach you how to
mitigate that, like truly from the get go.
And so this whole program happens before you even leave.
And in between our sessions you have access to me through Signal
which is an end to end encrypted texting platform and or
WhatsApp. So you if you have issues you
text me and I real time help you through and then post 12 week
program you have access to me every week so that we can go
through issues. I really believe that prevention
is key and going into this prepared and strategic with a
good plan in place. Will help you avoid all the
issues that I've seen in my work.
You'll always have to deal with this personality.
They don't change, but you become so knowledgeable and so
equipped with the tools that you can avoid a lot of the big
issues and minimize them, right? They're still going to have it
like like an effect on your children, but what you do in
your home counters the abuse that they experience with their
other parent. You know, that's amazing.
And I can like again, I wish I met you three years ago because
again, you know, dealing with all the different ministry
stuff, the police stuff, the you expect them even even not, I
don't expect anyone just because I utter some words.
Oh, they're going to totally take your side and also become
your advocate, but. Again, the way that victims are
treated is is just deplorable. I see that the perpetrators get
treated with kid gloves and then the victims get the brass
knuckles. I've seen it over and over and
over again. Even in the worst case scenarios
where it does end up in violence and ends up ultimately in death,
there's usually lots on the record, lots of reports and.
In the system too, right? Yeah.
So I think it's you providing that moral support is important
because again, A1 stage of a situation I was dealing with,
there was over 30 people involved, 30 different from
doctors to psychiatrists to social workers to cops to None
of them wanted to take any accountability because if they
take accountability, then they're there and then they're
responsible everyone. It's almost like the system now
in my opinion. If they just have this hands off
approach, ohh you should see that person.
You should go to family court, family courses.
So what are social? The services, Social services.
You should go to the cops. The cops say you should go to
social. So it's everyone pointing a
finger at everyone. So just simply having someone.
Like yourself and your corner can really get.
You through some bad We all have support, right?
To some degree. Hopefully most of us have like a
family or at least a friend who can support us.
But it's having the expert support.
Yeah, that's what I mean. One truly understands what's
going on and can validate, right?
In this type of relationship, you've been invalidated to the
core of your humanity and you are isolated.
Even if you are social, even if you still have friends, you're
isolated from people because there's a layer of lie.
You have to lie to yourself in order to stay in the
relationship. And I'm I can bet big bucks that
you've lied to people in your circle to to normalize and
minimize what you've experienced.
Because if you tell people the truth, they're going to look at
you and say why are you staying? And until you're ready to leave,
then you start to confide. And so having that expert person
in your corner who's going to give you expert advice, not just
your mom and dad. Who wants to ask for you?
To take them to the cleaners, right, They truly understand the
system, they truly understand what's coming down the pipeline
and they're equipping you with the tools and the resources and
the knowledge to make knowledge based choices and not fear based
choices that are going to then impact.
Your future and your children's future.
And truthfully, as you know, these people will turn children
against healthy, loving parents that they had no issue with
before. So that's why four weeks of my
program is dedicated to that. How to undo the counter
parenting, How to prepare for this intentional fracturing of
the relationship so that you can avoid it, right?
And they call it toxic for a reason because again in the day
you know that it it there's nothing like I, I emphasize
there's nothing in my life that that even comes close to the
toxicity of it, especially as he said and you keep bringing the
children up because that's the the key component here in lot of
the situation. Sometimes these situations can
be very toxic when there's not kids involved.
Like for example, I interviewed Amber, the Tatyana case, it's a
horrible case she was murdered in Australia, a woman from
Vancouver I've been. Her being her best friend and
she talks about the domestic violence that she went through
and she was so like had Stockholm syndrome.
She would go to court and say I hit him, I was a cheater, I it's
all me. When when now looking back she
can't believe that she did that. But so this is like how far you
can go down the rabbit hole with abuse it can really you know
going into trauma bonding and love bombing and it it it can be
marked. And those are adults who know,
right? Adults who know that abuse
exists, right? They, they do the most
unbelievable things when they're in these relationships to get
by. They're in survival mode, right?
And so they're doing everything in their power to minimize their
their their fear and to maximize their safety.
Right? Now imagine a child who seems no
way out, right? The courts have failed them and
have put them. Into cohabitation mode with
their abuse. They're either 50% of the time
or whatever it is, right? They do not see a way out.
And I see this all the time. Kids go in pretty clear as to
who the good parent is and who the bad parent is, And the
longer they have to live and cohabitate with their abusive
parent, the more likely their behavior changes, the more
likely they give up hope, right? And so they start to go along to
get along, just like. Victims did in the relationship,
but they're children, they're vulnerable and they truly
believe their parents love them. Kids don't stop loving their
parent who's abusive, they stop loving themselves, right?
So as the healthy, protective parent, there's so much you can
do in your own home, which is why there's four weeks of this.
Right in your own home. To minimize these effects on
your child. To minimize the effects of
coercive control on young, impressionable, vulnerable
children who know no different, right?
For sure, you have power in your home, and what you do in your
home can greatly mitigate so much of what's going on in the
other home. Let's end it on talking about.
Things that a person can do for themselves, like for me, it was
getting my health back. Getting in shape, working out
was good. It was a stress relief.
It kind of gave me some control over something.
And then as I started seeing the results, it started building
myself esteem back. And then as I got myself esteem
back then behavior became less and less tolerable, right?
So I believe that the self work is an important part of it and
unfortunately even people that are not in abusive situations.
One of my biggest things I believe people who don't do self
work just in general. Are are selling themselves short
because they're not living to the best potential of their
being. You're healthy, you you have
more energy and you could do more when you're unhealthy or
tired or just simple for that reason right?
But for self esteem building purposes, right?
When you build yourself esteem, you don't accept things that
will destroy. Especially when you work so hard
to build your self esteem back, right?
You're not gonna let someone just come and poop all over it
and tear you down like especially.
You must put your own oxygen mask on 1st.
And so I tell my clients you have to get the daily dose and
dose stands for dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin and
endorphins. And again, it doesn't have to
be. I know that money can oftentimes
be an issue and time can be an issue.
They don't have to be grandiose or expensive things, but even
just Google, Google how to increase your dopamine, your
oxytocin, your serotonin, your endorphins, your daily dose.
Do it daily right. Movement has to happen.
You have to move your body, whatever.
If that's lifting heavy weights, which is what I did, and it's
super therapeutic, right? Like lifting heavy weights, like
it's mind over matter. I ran marathons without
training. It was excruciating, but it was
mind over matter. I was proving to myself that I
was mentally stronger than the pain that I was withstanding.
So you do whatever works for you to make you get your confidence
back. Yes, it's been eroded.
You're not feeling great about yourself.
You are running on empty. Literally.
You're running on empty. All those good dopamine,
oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins, they've been depleted.
So your job is to increase those in whatever way you you can
connect with your friends again. Go to therapy.
Journal, meditate, do yoga, run, hike.
See the ocean? It's been scientifically proven
that going near water really is very therapeutic, right?
Do breathing exercises and techniques.
These are all things that are not only going to really help
you heal and get through this Ultramarathon.
Your divorce from this type of personality will not be a 5K
Sprint. It will be 120 mile endurance
race. You need to take care of
yourself before you leave this. This is what I'm telling my my.
Program clients is before you even leave.
You need to replenish what's been, what's been lost, yeah.
What's been taken away from? It's not below 0.
Mmhmm. And also they hate it when you.
Improve yourself. So for me that was a big thing
too. It's like you're the better
you're you're improving yourself than than the more you know more
it bothers them which is you know which.
Is not why we're doing it in my program.
I don't want them to even know that you're thinking of.
Yeah, that's a huge thing too, right?
Is do not they're. They're like animals.
Right before natural disaster. They have like superhuman
antenna for change. So your job with me is to ensure
that you stay under the radar, that they are not fearful of you
leaving because abandonment is their biggest wound.
And then they'll stay right. They will go through everything.
They will follow you, they'll hack you, they'll read your
emails, they'll trace your car movements.
They will really start to pay attention.
I've had clients who have had their emails read for a year
post separation. They had no idea because spider
was implanted on their computers.
And so guess what? Every e-mail to their lawyer
talking about strategy, their abusive.
Acts was pretty God. Right.
Like, this is the stuff that nobody thinks about.
Yeah, this is what I'm. Doing that deviants.
Like, it's like, yeah, well see, the average person doesn't, you
know, they don't have time for it.
They're just, you know, they're thinking about, Oh my, you know,
how to take care of my kids, the things that they're doing for
the week. Where these people, it's like
every waking second is is, yeah, because.
They do. Derive pleasure from this,
right? They're literally empty voids.
They're they're. Empty.
Right. Which is why they're constantly
addicted to stuff, be it shopping.
Or. Like sex or or drugs.
They're they're empty. They're constantly chasing their
next time. And guessing anything that gives
them a rough, yeah. This kind of stuff really fills
them, right? So they we are real people and
we have lives and we. Derive pleasure from from good
and growth and. Prevention.
They're the opposite. Everything that you think is
good, they think is bad. So you have to get out of the
framework as like, well, I would never do that, so why would
they? You know, like or They discarded
me. They cheated on me.
They left me for a younger version.
Who has more money? Why would they be upset?
Why would? They leave me alone.
Yeah, well, it's not what they want.
They're never happy, so they'll. Keep coming back after you.
Chantelle was post separation like the tentacles is probably
the way I look at it. They always have to have a
tentacle on you and they have long if they were like if they
again in my mind over the time of course in doing analogies,
probably just for venting. You know you think of different
animals, weasels, snakes and stuff like that.
But in in reality from me it's almost like they're like some
kind of squid like entity there. They can squish out of anything.
You try to squeeze them, they ooze through your fingers and
they have lots of tentacles of suction cups and they also have
poison ink to eject your venom. So they would be like, so
they're they, this is slimy squid like creatures and that
that's what I think they're they're tentacles or just.
Multiple reaching and yeah. Because.
They need you more than you need them.
Yes, yeah. They are literally these are the
kind of people who cannot be alone in quiet solitude.
They are never going to meditate yoga.
These people cannot be alone because quiet means that they
actually have time to think about their lives.
So they have to feel every minute of their lives was
something. Right with something that that
makes them feel alive again. Because they're dead.
They're dead. Inside they're dead.
Inside they are dead creatures. And I was, I was watching
something last night and it was, it was a psychiatrist talking
about their eyes go black like when especially when they're
mad. And I've seen that.
That is called the look, yeah I've.
Seen that? It's just like this, this entity
that's just staring out of these black, you know, cold white
eyes. Is until they've experienced it,
and it's actually in really archaic, primitive look and it's
purely hatred. I had a friend who texted me
from an event and she knows somebody that I know because
we're all part of the same community.
And she saw this person, this man, give his exwife the look
across the crowded stadium and she texted me not knowing who
this person is. I know who this person is, but
she had no idea. She's like, I saw the scariest
look. Yeah, cross the.
Crowded stadium. What's going on there?
And I was like, yeah, that is the look.
That's exactly what nobody wants to see.
Because truly, if they could kill you.
Yeah, like I've seen the difference.
You know, again, like working in bars and stuff, I call it, you
know, they give you like Charlie Manson eyes or they're like
that. And that's more something as if
they're just worked up or they're they're, you know,
hopped up on something. But there is like what you're
saying. And their eyes are not even
really that open. There's eyes just stare at you.
They're almost like dead shark eyes and they're kind of like.
They're not. Yeah, there's nothing behind
there. Like the mirror to the soul.
And I hate to say this, but they're truly soulless.
Yeah, yeah, they're defective, broken human beings, and I know
that there are some who heal, but that is too far and few in
between for me to even validate and.
It's just too hard. It's too hard work.
It's too vulnerable. So like 99.9% of the population
who is a narcissist and or sociopath, they just never heal.
No. Especially as it become adults.
It's just they're it's too far gone.
For sure I totally agree. This is like something I brought
up with Seb who was a 20 year Mountie and you know he's and he
talks about something about what he calls what he believes is
important. Especially if you're leaving and
or or left called hardening the target making yourself a not an
ideal target so security system. Dash Cam on your car?
What are some things you'd recommend for that, like making
yourself not an ideal target if that's possible.
Deep breath. Well, cuz we're all targets,
right? Here's The thing is, we're all
walking targets. Anyone who's.
Empathetic, generous, loyal, kind, determined.
Is is a target, right? Because those are the qualities
that they look for. Because you'll stay the course,
you'll put up with more. Because you're loyal and you're
loving. I really think that number one
thing is give time. Time and space.
If you've just met a person, do not fall quick and hard.
Do not communicate. See them every day.
Give yourself time and space to be able to see the forest for
the trees right. If you're in this vacuum of like
a love bombing stage, it's really hard to see on like the
red flags. Give yourself time and do not
get pregnant. Do not inseminate.
Yeah, right. Do not move in together.
Do not buy a business together. Do not get married.
Anything that tethers you to a person legally to that much
harder to leave, right? And truly, a person who like who
loves you will stay around for two years, right?
They're not going to. Drop for sure.
And be patient with you too, you know?
Yeah. And so just give it time so.
You you interview them, right? Like you truly are interviewing
them and their people. Meet their friends.
I bet you that they'll talk a lot about you and your friends,
but they won't involve a lot of information about their family
or their friends. Pay attention to things like my
ex is crazy. I mean, we all have crazy exes,
but most of us don't talk about that on the.
First day, no, no, it doesn't come up front and center.
Right, Yeah. And also pay attention.
Are they often times the victim? Yeah, they.
All have issues with their colleagues, their bosses, their
friends, their family, their exes.
But if they're constantly the victim in this narrative and
never the the person who's caused an issue, that's a giant
red flag. Too.
Yes. So really give.
But the biggest thing is time and space.
Give yourself time and space, even when you're dating somebody
that you're really into. Don't don't see them every day.
Don't talk to them every day. Assert your boundaries and see
if they respect your boundaries, even if they kind of seem kind
of stupid. Right, just to see.
If they're going to respect my boundaries, right?
Or are they going to try to keep pushing through the boundary?
Like if you think you know what, I don't want to talk every day,
let's talk every other day. And they're like.
But I love you so much and I really, you know, don't you love
me the way that I love you? I feel like I've never felt this
way. If they're starting to push your
boundaries from the get go, drop it like it's hot and run for the
guys. It's not worth your time.
Trust me on this one, it's not worth your time.
And Google them, I've thought honestly too, when I was single
especially, I've googled some people and then be like, my God,
I just dodged the bullet, Yeah. And meet their friends and
family, Their friends and family.
See how those dynamics are. What other really your Here's
the thing as people go into this.
Thinking that people are who they say they are because most
of us are honest human beings, we might fudge a little bit.
Like on my profile I'm bumble, like might have said I was
£130.00 but really I'm 135, right?
We might fudge a little bit of truth, but we don't stray too
far from the real narrative of life these people lie like.
It's normal. Right.
So pay attention to what they say and what they do.
And if they say they respect you, but every time you assert A
boundary, like I don't want it to text tonight, I've had a
really long day and they aren't respectful of that boundary,
they don't actually respect you, no.
Exact thing that you just said too.
And then my biggest thing now for all my trial by fire is that
if there's a double standard, if you're supposed to hot skip and
jump every time they make something or ask or request
something. But when you ask for something
in return that's of equal or lesser value, it's unreasonable.
Pay attention to communication. This type of personality tends
to have their phone in their hand all the time, 24 hours a
day, seven days a week. They expect you to be at their
beck and call. So when they call or text,
you're supposed to, if you are, happen to be busy because you
might have a life outside of them that they expect, like an
immediate turn around right, you then text back.
Oh, I'm sorry I missed your text.
What's going on? But pay attention to.
If they treat you the same way, if you call or text them, are
they quick to pick up or do they let it sit for a while?
Yeah, her phone is in their hand, right?
Good one too. It's like they you're they put
you on a lower priority that they expect you to put them on.
Really receptive, but too much, right?
Yeah, they tend to go do relationships at warp speed.
You should take the time and really, really get to know them
through an extended period of time before you make any
longterm commitment. And I mean a lot like take.
A year, right? What's a year of your life?
Truthfully for sure. What's a year of your life?
Because taking that year and really being smart about this
can save you 20 years of torture.
Oh, totally, devastately. There are ways to do background
checks, right? And and maybe if you think
you're going to really change your life and move a halfway
across the country, maybe hire a private investigator, do a
background check. Because in so many of these
cases, Chantelle. Isolation someone?
Move across the country when they just met and now they're
isolated and living with their family and their family are just
as awful. So here's The thing is,
isolation is the easiest way to control a person If you take
them away from their community, either by literally moving
across the country or to a different country community, if
you're too far away from your friends and your support that
they can't be there, then you're isolated, right?
And then the isolation goes into financial isolation you might.
Get completely dependent. Every week, right?
Like if you come from a rich marriage and you have like
$10,000 given to you every week, you might feel cushy, but.
If you. Have access to money.
Like you don't have access to your own money and you are
reliant on your partner to give you money.
That's also financial isolation. But never move.
Never ever move. Never ever ever move until you
are 100% sure this person is who they say they are.
Yeah, I isolation is the easiest way to control a person.
Do your homework right. Is the person they who they say
they are. I think so many people who've
had bad experiences when they finally find this gem.
They they are sucked in, right? And if it sounds too good to be
true, guess what? It's too good to be true.
Faulty, like good people have faults, right?
Yeah, person. Who comes across as too perfect?
Well, I had to unlearn such of my, you know, excuse my
language, but somewhat like all the hippie bullshit that was
taught to me and the as a kid of the 70s and 80s, money doesn't
matter. You don't judge a book by a
cover. No, you judge a book by a cover.
You look at it. You know what I mean?
Like all the hippie bullshit that that brainwashed me, that
totally set me up for. Don't be judgmental.
Da da da da. Everyone is the karma thing.
All that right? And and and time after time that
stuff got me in trouble. And I think also as as a woman,
it's probably less for you, but do correct me if I'm wrong, cuz
I don't like to make sweeping generalizations based on
genders, but as a woman, we have a biological clock.
That's. Ticking, yeah.
That are, I agree. It's like 30, right?
Yeah. If you're not married by 30,
good luck trying to find a partner after 30 because your
social. Yeah, you're a leftover woman,
right? In China, we're.
Too old. Too old.
Your eggs are shriveling as we speak, and I think that that a
lot of people fall prey to that, right?
So they meet somebody who's good enough.
Yeah, And they pay. They don't pay attention to the
red flags and the cues of this person is giving out.
But this person is not good because they feel their window
of opportunity diminishing. I've dated a Portuguese woman
when I was in my 20s. There was harsh pressure to get
married, like from the family. Like heart pressure.
Yeah, like wedding guys getting married and to the point.
It was kind of funny like when we stayed over there like you're
not married so you have to sleep in the basement and you know
what I mean? So but it was like a way to put.
Prep family, right. So when we traveled together as
a couple that was non married and we went to stay at like my
grandparents cabin, we literally had to sleep in separate beds
like and I didn't even think anything of it.
I was just like get this is just, you know, I'm like a sign
of respect until we're married. This is how it is.
Yeah. Cuzidal constructs and cultural
constructs. Play hard on this, right?
But as a woman, I can only speak as a woman, cuz I'm a woman.
So I'm coming at it from a woman.
I really felt a lot of pressure, right?
Like a lot of pressure. This is as good as it gets.
You might as. Well, as jump, you're not
getting any younger when you having kids, you're not getting
it. Yeah, yeah, so you.
Also see this post Separation too right?
Men with children have an easier time finding a partner children,
even if we make the same amount of income of who we are.
You will have an easier time re partnering with a quality
individual than a woman with the same life history, right?
Well look at us and say, Oh well, she's divorced, she's in
her 40s and she has two kids. We feel lucky that the man is
looking at us saying, Oh yeah, OK, well I'm going to take her.
Whereas it's just a given that a man with children, a woman's
going to be maternal and want to take care of those children.
No, I agree. Because like you know, in my
search I was a widower and they said statistically most men that
are widowers get married or get a partnership within a year.
Where women it's not. I forgot what the statistic was,
but it was a hell of a lot lower.
It was like it was. Because we are considered used
right and we feel fortunate when a man who looks at us as a
package. Yeah.
And then that of course we can get into another conversation
next time both hope predators that that definitely in one of
the things that I'm going to get into I always.
Tell people yeah. Do not put your kids in social
media. Do not put them on your dating
app. You are single mom, Yeah.
And because I get like, if they like teenagers and you have
teenage girls, right? You know, So I'm going to get
into that in another series about like online predators and
dating apps and things like that.
Yeah, it's another monstrous world that needs exposure, but.
Yes. Anyway Shontelle we can talk for
hours and hours and hours and you know I appreciate you every
time you come on and we always have very good insightful deep
conversations. It's you know it's honestly it's
my pleasure to have you on your welcome to come on anytime you
want. I really love the work you do
because I wish there was more people like you because this is
this is such a. Minefield is probably the best
way to describe it. You're separating man or woman,
right? There's a lot of men that go
through the abuse too, and sometimes the men's stuff is
more on the passive aggressive. Way more.
Yeah, stuff. And it's hard for a guy to
articulate. And and I'll tell you too, just
quickly before I go, like I was, I was saying, you know, the the
cops would come to my house sometimes when Alexandra would
have like one of her psychotic breaks.
Not all. Most the cops were good, but
there was a couple of the old school ones looking, You can't
handle your woman. What do you want me to do, smack
her around? Like, what do you like?
I look at them. What do you expect me to do
other than try to listen and calm her down?
You know, you're kind of giving me that kind of.
And and that didn't happen very often.
That only happened from a few of them.
But they kind of, you know, that kind of BS, right?
So there there's like, you know, again, for women, they're more
susceptible to be victims of violence, especially in the
cases I've done. Men could be very emotionally
abused and whittled down. I've seen that.
I've seen that even growing up where the man is just like a
shell, This just like little whittles like, you know, little
like the like bites that over time those add up until the guys
just like a doormat walking doormat.
So it can happen in the best of us, right?
So I think it's valuable that we have these conversations and
stuff because the more that we could try to make people to.
Understand and undo and unravel this harm, put in that self work
and actually truly become the person that you want to be.
You don't have to be defined by your last relationship, right?
No. And there's so much potential
for a great life. Like, I like, I guarantee
there's Even when you're dealing with the worst stuff, there's so
many Nuggets of beauty to experience in life, truly.
Yeah. So thank you again.
Thank you for coming on hopefully.
Two hours later, yeah. Well, we can be in the
conversation, right? Yeah.
OK, Awesome. Thanks Mark for having me again.
Knowledge is power. Yes, thank you again.
I'll let you go. Have a wonderful day.
You too, Okay. Bye bye.