The Vancouver True Crime podcast.
Welcome to I am the show's host. My name is Mark.
Thank you for the enormous growth and support to my viewers
to my listeners. Nothing could happen without
you. Before I begin 2022 was a very
challenging year. Unfortunately, one of the most
difficult years I had my life. What doesn't kill me?
Makes me, stronger, Friedrich Nietzsche.
This song Going situations is due to people who wish me harm
and my family through a very vicious campaign of harassment
trolling and a slanderous whisper campaigns.
I have unfortunately had to deal with a lot of difficulties in my
personal life in 2022. But hey, I'm a public person who
built the platform based on my life experiences and stories.
I don't keep my own secrets. So why would I keep the secrets
of those who wish me harm? Oh, they did some pretty crazy
things including making the flam, ettore, posters doxxing my
address and photos, which they posted around my neighborhood
and school, where my kids go. Many people are aware of this
ongoing situation which is being handled in confident and will
become public when the time is, right?
The shocking nature of the details are very heinous and
highly illegal. Very regrettable for those
who've been violated by them, by these people, they brought great
pain trauma and suffering to those around them.
Monsters are real. Without a doubt, this is not
finished and more as a come, they chose a wrong Cowboy to
pick a fight with. So, my platform Vancouver, True
Crime, Was created to advocate for local community.
Give a voiceless a platform and I have a platform because I'm a
public person and since I don't keep the secrets about my own
life, I see no reason to keep the secrets of people who wish
me and my family harm. So now for the good news
Vancouver. True Crime podcast.
Had an exceptional year of growth. 200,000 downloads on
iTunes 100,000 on Spotify, which is a 95% increase.
I've been listed on 20 different podcasting websites and now
including Amazon music. The Vancouver True Crime podcast
has listeners and 43 countries. And currently is now the top 5%
podcast that gets Global shares, my audience, grew, and I
collaborated with some very amazing guests whom I'm very
grateful for their time and coming on my podcast.
Thank you so much to all the guests who came And shared their
stories and experiences on the Vancouver.
True Crime podcast. My goal for 2020, 3 is to expand
more on social media, especially on video platforms and have my
podcast and also in video format with subtitles, I have an
extensive high-tech startup background in business, with 20
plus years, And my goal from the beginning was to create an
organic brand to provide a combination of advocacy
entertainment and value to my audience and for its growth or
2022 and more to come and twin 23.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Does today's culture, and Society, cause mental illness,
many mental health professionals.
Believe that these elements contribute significantly to many
Any of the issues that plague our society and way of life in
addition to Scientific and Technical advancement, we have
more access to resources than our ancestors.
We live in safer and more comfortable environments with
better access to food and modern medicine.
The circumstances of Modern Life with increased complex systems
of social organizations, are becoming more complex
contradictory, necessitating potentially unsettling cognitive
demand, Our life event that increased the risk factor of
mental illness like abuse. Trauma, stress domestic violence
adversity during childhood bullying conflict social
isolation, or substance abuse which can has a cause and effect
relationship with mental health. One is also expected to adapt to
a very fast-paced of Shifting. Social expectations, not to
mention modern society has increased A number of factors,
like suicide rates, legal issues, family, conflicts
employment issues, substance abuse, physical health problems,
and anxiety, major depressive disorder, bipolar disorder
schizophrenia, eating disorder, psychosis, depressive psychosis,
narcissistic personality disorder and borderline
personality disorder in memories dreams and Reflection by Carl
Jung. Search brought him to the
burning question. What?
Exactly takes place inside the mentally ill?
He right through my mind therapy, only really begins
after the investigation of that, Holy personal story, it is the
patient Secret, The Rock Against which she is shattered.
If I know her Secret Story, I have the key to treatment in
most cases of explorations of conscious material is Agent in
therapy. The problem is always the whole
person, never the symptom alone. We must ask the question which
challenges the whole personality young treated, many
schizophrenic patients who are considered a lost cause he tells
a story of an 18 year. Old girl who's been abused at
the age of 15. She Retreats into isolation she
conceals herself from people, she was taken to a mental
hospital Oh, and remains in a cannon, tonic State over the
course of many weak. Young gradually persuaded her to
speak after overcoming many resistance.
She told young, she said that she did not like this world and
that the moon was beautiful. And life there was rich in
meaning he writes as a result of the incest, which she has been
subjected, this girl felt humiliated into the eyes of the
world, an elevated into a realm of fantasy.
The consequence was more complete alienation from the
world, a state of psychosis, she's become extra mundane as it
were and lost contact with Humanity.
She plagued into Cosmic distances into outer space,
where she met a winged demon by telling me her story.
She had incense betrayed the demon and attached herself to an
Earthly human being thereafter. I regarded the suffering of the
mentally ill in a different light, for I have gained insight
into the richness and the importance for I have gained
insight. Into the richness and the
importance of inner experiences. The book tribe by Sebastian
Junger. This book provides a convincing
articulation of reasons why modern society is ill-suited to
become the innate social needs of human beings.
Our ancestors lived in involved for many.
Thousands of years and hunter-gatherer group, we were
closely bonded together in a Cooperative Bond.
In order survive. Dangerous surrounding everyone.
In the group knew that they were dependent on each other.
The group was expected loyalty, cooperation, sharing resources
from individuals in the group modern society, in contrast
emphasized competitive individualism and the sharing of
resources is generally limited to the family and sometimes to
the extended family, the mismatch between This, Modern
environment and the innate Human Social needs can Need to
clinical depression and anxiety, chronic loneliness, and mental
illness, stash and younger, argues throughout history.
Humans have had a strong instinct to belong to small
groups or tribes. These indigenous tribes gave
people a purpose and an understanding of life.
However, these tribal connections have been
obliterated by modern society, during the wars of early
colonialism with With indigenous tribes, many European settlers
were taken prisoners and held within the tribes.
After they had a chance to escape and return to their
modern society. Many refused to they prefer the
Primitive Society. Over the modern one on, the
contrary not one tribesmen wanted to flee, to modern
society, we have evolved genetically to live in an
interdependent group to survive this crazy quality.
As everyone this creates, equality as everyone plays a
necessary role in the tribe, they work in cooperation for the
average of 12 hours, a week to survive, in contrast to the
40-hour workweek, that many modernized societies require the
tribes, cooperate for survival each day.
They go to hunt and gather and in the evening they returned and
share the food with their Community.
People often believe that modern in life with all its efficient
technology has allowed for more leisure time.
However, the exact opposite is True, Modern Life is
characterized by a desperate work, cycle financial obligation
and more work, and more work, and sacrifices, sacrificing
personal freedom. One might argue, however, the
Modern Life has allowed the sense of Independence that tribe
folks could never have achieve leading to a It's a freedom also
lead to a feeling of alienation and depression.
We have not yet been genetically adapted to our environment.
We have not yet the enormous changes of the Industrial
Revolution has hardly begun to affect her gene pool.
In other words, even though we live in more complex society, we
are still hardwired to be hunters and gatherers.
Today we're surrounded by a group of people yet.
We feel completely alone. This is not something that we've
experienced until quite recently.
We are wired to belong to a group where we feel valued by
our contribution to it without a group many fall into a sense of
meaningless and emptiness. Modern Life has disrupted.
The social bonds that has always characterized the Human
Experience. It breeds Comfort allowing
people to access Selfishly empty and lacking empathy for one.
Another food is not the only primary source of nourishment
for humans according to the World Health Organization, I
boat 450 million people continually to struggle with
mental illness, making it the leading cause of disability
around the world here at home. It affects more than six point
seven. In million of us.
In fact, one and two Canadians have or have in fact, one in two
Canadians have or have had mental illness by the time they
reach 40 years old. What?
If it's your current relationship that's making you
sick and I don't mean STDs, I'm talking physically sick being
around someone interacting with a partner boyfriend, girlfriend
husband or wife mother or father or even.
Your own child, no matter how hard you try to accommodate so
empathy be reasonable. He find yourself getting
physically more and more sick being around these people.
This brings us to the realm of narcissistic abuse, highly
manipulative, and they seem to be wolves in sheep's clothing
with the intent of causing you mental harm.
But this mental harm translate into physical harm being in a
narcissistic relationship with a narcissist.
Are psychotic person or person with borderline personality.
Leti, can cause he's serious mental health problems and it
can cause you physical health problems, this can cause you
severe depression. Anxiety, headache artists, she's
blood pressure, inflammation, inflammation is a cause of many
diseases. Psoriasis, inflammatory bowel
disease causes you to age rapidly toward in your life span
autoimmune disorders. All being in the presence of a
toxic person. Human beings are designed for
stress. Us.
Resigned as hunters and gatherers.
We love Sports and Physical Sports, and challenges, and
physical fitness. And myself, I've done boxing
weightlifting competitive wrestling different, martial
arts. I was competitive and track, and
field did weightlifting and bodybuilding for 30 years.
I've worked in very stressful, environments, construction, I
worked as an ironworker. I worked in corporate sales.
I've had deadlines, I've dealt with very difficult people.
I've thrived and stressful environments.
I understand stress, pressure deadlines.
However, I've worked at nightclubs and bars I've
interacted and had to deal with very violent people.
I've been around physical violence.
But nothing has ever prepared me for emotional abuse.
Emotional trauma, being around. Toxic people that are highly
manipulative. Gaslight.
You play head games torment. You everything is your fault.
No matter how reasonable you try to speak with them.
They twist things. They torment.
You they make your world, fill upside down and 2020 20, my wife
died of an aneurysm I had to rush her to Royal Colombian
hospital for emergency brain surgery.
She didn't make it. I had to take her off, life,
support myself, so I know pain. I know pain.
Well, I know tragedy, but a year or so.
Before she died her mental health, deteriorated, her
behavior was very like borderline.
She had psychosis, she would have psychotic breaks and her
behavior was highly abusive involved.
A tile it extremely broke me down cause me nervous
breakdowns. I was even rushed to the
hospital myself for what I thought.
I could be having a heart attack and then also the last two years
I have been witnessed to the most psychotic vicious
narcissistic abuse. I watched in horror seeing
vicious gaslighting. That I've ever witnessed after
everything. I've been through.
I know for a fact that if I ever got into a narcissistic abusive
relationship with someone who is psychotic or suffers from
borderline personality disorder, I don't think I could survive
it. I don't think I could survive
that type of stress and toxicity that they bring personally.
I'd rather get into a fight with the toughest biker and be on the
losing end of the fight. Then tangle with a malignant
narcissist or a borderline person with psychotic
Tendencies. Mental abuse is real and it
causes damage and it's vicious to deal with.
So this series is called evil intentions.
It's called narcissistic monsters.
And I want to highlight this for a few reasons because this is a
true crime podcast and I've always been interested in the
psychology behind the intentions of serial killers monsters
serial rapist. What is their intentions?
What drives? And what motivates them?
And these are monsters on a different Spectrum.
There are narcissists, that do become serial killers, like Ted
Bundy. Clifford.
Robert Olson was a vicious psychotic narcissist.
And in this episode, I am going to include a interview, police
interview, Paul, Bernardo. So you can listen how convincing
how dangerous And how narcissists can twist and
torment. And be very convincing.
These are highly dangerous people.
They do damage and they're evil. This episode so far in this
series, I have the honor to have some experts that are going to
be co-hosting many of the episodes with me.
I have legal experts. I will also come on the show
that will explain the legality, and when narcissist psychotic
people cross the line, what are your legal options?
There is no hell on Earth that I've ever witnessed.
That is like being in a relationship with someone who is
narcissistic a borderline, a psychotic person who only wants
to cause you mental harm. There are times when they do
cross the line and they will use violence.
But many, a times are cowards. They're cowards who want
deniability? So, there are expert in many
cases of how to torment was still.
Having that little threaded deniability, it's all in your
head, it's you who's making up. It's you who's the back person?
They're good at smearing you. They're good at whisper
campaigns. They're good at just making
things a little bit twisted that, so it's not just them,
it's you two, that are fighting. That's you two are in a
conflict. When you just want nothing to do
with them. These people are con artists are
experts at conning. You, the love-bombing the
trickery at first, the little bit of doubt and they do things
in slow, increments little drips in the bucket at a time, add up
and fill the bucket. Something I'm going to explore
more of to is, is it different types of dark psychology?
Cults manipulation manipulation tactics I have about 20 years of
experience in sales. I've studied every type of sales
and NLP been through so many corporate training.
Seminars I know manipulation. Well because I was taught it, I
plan to share every manipulative trick that I've ever learned so
you The Listener can understand when someone's trying to
manipulate you, I'm going to be forthcoming of A little thing
that was ever taught. So you can be armed and have the
ability to listen to understand when someone is trying to
manipulate you adjourn 2022, in my hometown of Vancouver.
There's been a massive spike in crime and homelessness and drug
use and drug addiction drug overdose.
And a lot of times these people, these poor souls for however
they ended up on the street addicted to drugs.
The city, the people who try to care and prepare them.
There's a lot of good people with good intentions that do
want the best for these people and no matter the type of crimes
they do in Vancouver from random machete attacks to attacking
people to destroying property. Thing that always is told to me
and told everyone is, they have mental health issues.
So our mental health system is broken.
It really is because I've witnessed things directly with
the mental health industry in Vancouver and BC in Metro
Vancouver. Were it seems that be very
inadequate in dealing with the rise of mental health and the
way that I believe that these people are being treated, is not
helping them in many times. It seems to make them worse for
whatever reason, and we're going to explore that.
And like I said, we're also going to talk about dangerous
predators who Used dating apps and I had a recent situation
that happened within the last couple of days.
I don't want to give out too many details, but a very serious
dangerous predator with 17 counts of sexual assault.
That used drugs and violence against women was caught active
on a dating site. And this was brought to my
attention and I'm happy to report that this dangerous creep
predator. Has now been arrested.
So this series is about keeping you safe and keeping you
informed about the dangerous people that lurk out there.
And again, this whole thing is on spectrums, there are some
people who are narcissists that are not dangerous, they become
actors, they become singers. They may be a bit of Diva
behavior and they may be unpleasant to deal with but
they're not dangerous. And then there's those who are
narcissus borderlines Psychopaths, that will use
dating sites, they'll use love-bombing that will be used
to lure, and groom and violence and manipulation and sexual
assault sometimes. Murder sometimes human
trafficking and I'm grateful to have some great experts that are
going to be coming on board on this series to help you see
through manipulations and lies. So you guys can have a good life
and pick the right people in the right partners for yourself, so
you can do the things that are important to you.
Okay, it's on My name is detective.
Brad Hoover Dam with the Toronto Police Service sex crimes unit
the time now is 2:05 p.m. and we're presently at the Kingston
penitentiary in Kingston, Ontario in a boardroom.
And I stick is the main building and call it present in the room
here. If I could just have each of
you, identify yourself and the purposes of videotape that's
being made, Seated to my left off camera now sitting at the
table as your counsel just please starts off.
Yes certainly, it's Anthony Bryant.
And straight across the table for me.
If you could identify yourself and Constable darling, coolest
Co UL is And I get my name is Brad Hoover
and today is June, 27, 2007. Mr. Teal the reason that we're
here today is to speak to regards to a couple of mins, a
couple of matters. First of all, before we start, I
just want you to make sure you're aware that what we say is
being videotaped here. Yeah, I'm just going to start
this audiotape. I forgot.
It just started. This audio tape.
Here we started the interview at 2:05 p.m. my name is detective.
Brian for all you're not presently, being given a caution
or anything. I want you to understand what
you're saying to us today is voluntary and means.
If you don't want to talk to us you don't have to your counsel
is present and if you need to speak to him, you certainly can.
But I just want to make sure you understand what you're seeing
here is voluntary. And we're interviewing you as a
potential witness to understand that.
Yeah. Just a little bit of background
about the first time we met last year in April 2006.
That was in regards to letter that you had sent through the
Attorney General's office. Filtered down to my office, in
regards to some Admissions and made of some sexual assaults
that you committed. I'm here to tell you that I have
concluded that investigation and there have been Two offenses
that I have been able to identify and with the
information that you provided to me at that time was able to
conclude those matters as having been committed by yourself.
So, for that, I thank you for that information, sorry.
You've identified identified this as did the no no, I've
identified the offense that you were talking about and based on
that information, I was able to include those cases.
That actually provided enough information that I was satisfied
that you were the person that committed.
This offense has one of Moses and makes sense.
What about ones that you thought that I came from?
Within about that, I didn't do. It was very little out.
There was none that I thought that you didn't do there was
some that I didn't have enough information to either again.
By the offense because you are able to provide enough details
at that time or they may not have ever been reported to the
police as you said and we spoke some of them were called minor
type of offenses but offenses, it being I have been reported to
the police. Okay.
Um I turned on the TV. I waited for peel region
overcome by September rolls around.
They stay and make a public announcement.
It's written On my file here that that I lied to police and I
did not commit the crimes. I say that committee.
I've spoken to peel region and They have told me that.
They don't have enough information at this point to
identify anything that you the letter that was sent to the
police or to through, to the police wasn't specific enough to
identify any of us has. Now, that's something that we
could talk about. Sir following this interview and
if you want to get into that, we can talk about that but I can
sit with this for years and it's written on my file name, will
seem like only just this crazy, you know, because love doing
that. I'm just crazy psychopath liar.
Why was that Steven issue? Why didn't they come in and talk
to? It didn't have enough
information. We were waiting on that tape,
you play that tape back. I'll ask you guys to reach more
going to come in. I sat there month after month
after month. No one came.
I turned on the TV and September.
Puma no. Declared the Paul.
Bernardo was the oldest crazy liar to the least.
But what's the fundamental problem here?
Well, I know, I mean, I guess this the Canadian way and and,
and, and no one comes in. And now, you guys are saying,
they didn't have enough information.
While I can't answer for them specifically, as to what they
did or didn't do I can tell you that because there are separate
Police Department. I don't have any control over
what investigation that they did do.
I can tell you that I have spoken with the investigator and
peel region and they Told me that at this point, they don't
have enough information to move forward.
They haven't been able to identify any offense.
That was specifically talked about that statement.
You're giving me as much different than the public
statement. They said we're said I was a
liar. Okay, well I don't I don't write
day and they didn't come in if they don't have enough
information. Once you come in, get the
information, how do you drive lying or not lying in?
This goes to the Crux of this argument either.
I'm a liar to you. I'm like you right now but
everything like I did to peel Regional according to their
story or not, you know. I just I just First, I'm not
going to sit here and go. Come voluntarily and have
people. Come, you guys ban me from the
Press. You roll your stores over and
costly say that I'm a liar. I'm a liar.
I'm a mistake 17 years ago. Said, okay.
Fine, I did. But now we're talking about
today and you're not going to roll forward that I'm some
psychopath liar, sitting in jail, cleaning other people's
responsibilities for other crimes.
That this is a total cross-examination point.
You want to start this think 4:00 yours gonna grab a hold of
it and say, well, he lied about other crimes, you know, he's a,
he's a crazy liar. Why didn't you guys resolve
this? And again, I can't answer for
what field region. Dinner, didn't do
jurisdictionally. We're kind of down towards the
good guys, the bad guys. You know what I mean?
You're on the same team. Yes, we are.
As far as awesome fact, investigating knives that take
place outside of the actual Toronto.
Proper. That's why pill region has their
Police Service in length. Detective Hoover, said we can
answer as to what they did with their investigations, or the
mat, the issues that they were looking at that transpired out
in your area. We really can't speak to that,
you know, whether that's something you wish to have your
Council deal with them on and that something else.
But unfortunately, there was a lot that detective Gruber and I
could do in regards to those things.
Well, I thought I'd leave you. There were two watching this
thing and they should subpoena. These guys will peel Regional.
They can bring it all the facts to show just where I like it if
I'm a liar. That's what I say to do it.
Because either I'm a liar. I'm not a liar and I'm not a
liar. But you guys are trying to paint
me as one of the public court to the public, they turn on the TV
and September of last year. This crazy liar.
That's what the TV reported. And not only did they reported
their they wrote it on my file. I've got a very myself all but I
do feel Regional said all around life to police about crimes.
He didn't commit said, he did. Okay, I mean, this is this.
That's just awful. I mean, come on enough
manipulation, you know what I mean?
Either, he told the truth or otherwise, the whole purpose of
the interview is just stupid. Because if on this crazy liar,
I'll be sitting here like you anyway, right?
I mean, why wouldn't I have? This is crazy liar.
And then again, I don't, I don't know.
Exactly what was said like little region.
And I'm not here to answer to what they said.
Either, you know, it is one thing is, I'm a human being and
to say that I'm dangerous offender and raping and killing
all this stuff is fine. I mean, free publicity.
Oh, get that real tough on crime.
Get that back. But when you go to a certain
point of line, it's just, I mean, it affects me totally, you
know, I made mistakes, I mean, this takes long time ago but
don't say that today was because then we're lying.
And then we got a big problem because I'm looking at You and
your the bad guys, because I'm not doing anything wrong.
I'm not telling the truth and you guys are walking around
issuing statements that I lie here.
I live there. No, those are statements that
were issued by myself. I mean, this is It's a second
attorney. General said you guys down here,
he's fighting the case. He's taken 12 pitch back, right?
So it's really all the same organization.
There's the train too noisy, but the TV talking, right?
This is a separate matter from what those issues.
It's really through your gums office or statements that they
released to the media. Because they have, they know
it's a scant, it's the same thing.
If I'm a liar, take the facts that they have they come down
and talk to me. Any cross-examined defense
lawyer, call them up and show me where I'm lying because you're
not going to find it. Maybe there's a minor mistake
here in the I think I had one thing about some treat drive
would be more trees where you know, memory will move this over
time. But to say that it's just
ridiculous. Just like you guys didn't go
because polygraph But it's the same problem because you're
making me out to be a huge liar and in this is gone.
Well, I don't I don't have any doubt as to what you told us
before the facts that I can verify.
I believe we're true in it from what you've told me.
You haven't told me any lies yet.
So, I have known personal reason to believe that your wife.
Exactly. So exactly.
So but this is with different story than I got in my file and
it's happened. I don't know watching her father
because I do not prove it. Information or what's there and
what's not there? I'm just telling you from my
perspective from an investigative perspective into
what I've looked into to what admissions you made back in
April last year to me. I'm I'm satisfied.
I've done what I can do as far as the investigation if peel.
If you'd like to provide me with more information about the
specific occurrences that occurred in peel region, then we
can talk about that after the focus of what we're here for
today. And that's the It's okay as part
of the focus. Well it is it is it isn't?
It isn't obviously directly. We're here today to deal with
the bulk of its matter if you're aware but dealing with me and it
comes down and goes up to credibility.
Absolutely does. And that's that's what we're
here to talk about today. And so let's let's deal with
that. And then we can deal with the
other stuff afterwards. So okay, go ahead and just
making my point on it because it's going to be a dress,
sometimes. Absolutely should have been
dealt with that a year ago, a little over I have some
questions that were that were given to me to ask you relation
to the bulk of the judge matter, Robert, Paul tillich matter
before we do that, I just want to say you understand obviously
the importance of telling the truth and the consequences
potentially of someone who lies to the police and not telling
the truth. I think we discovered that
actually I was referring you guys tell the truth, right?
Okay, so we're aware of and in this matter, I believe that you
had some conversation with your counsel and our student.
And there's been some discussion about polygraph testing in this
matter. Is that true enough for you
recall that You're opening up cans of worms.
Am I just asking you a specific question?
You know, that goes back to you guys polygraph there with the
chameleon, polygraph Carla and, and two years since have you
guys gone down there Master? Have you sold them out of with
it? Because you could say, I lied or
whatever polygraph, but have you asked her?
Because it comes down to a lot of that issue.
You know? I mean, have you seen my
involvement with This overall investigation of the bulk of
which is very limited. The only knowledge that I have
is as to what investigation has been done or hasn't been done is
specifically what's related the conversations.
I've had about this interview here today, okay.
Okay, who what other witnesses there are?
I don't know of any specific persons.
They answered your question. I don't want to go off in
Kingsville. All these, all these issues are
relevant. I do you think down but that
they are in answer to your question is we had some
discussion on On it. But when Corcoran on the opp
came down before Carla was released for.
I told her I'd be willing to take a polygraph on anything and
everything. Would you in turn?
Are you going to go down before you buy this car?
Just ask her. She's not gonna take a student
to go to fail on all these issues.
If your hand constantly at the did blah blah, blah to do Tammy
happened in July was the girl in January after you kidnapped.
And if not, somebody, I picked up at a bar like, she tried to
storm over and all these other issues, all relevant, all
relevant in and Soy. And then I addressed it to you
guys, when you came back again last year.
I said, yeah, I'll take a photograph on anything because
I'm not telling a lie on a thing.
Are you have you again, I ask the question, have you guys gone
down and the ideal car this for? You know, I'm not I'm not even
business. Putting her in jail, it's not my
thing. But my point was, did you ask
the question? Just so we get the story
straight. I mean, if she refuses while
there's a reason why she's refusing.
And again, you guys couldn't provide the answer and no, and
almost a year later, again, you don't provide the answer.
So, I mean I don't know what you're asking me.
You're asking me to take a polygraph when you aren't
willing to ask her. Well, if this this my part of
this investigation is limited to what we're saying here today.
So the details of all of what other Witnesses may or may not
have been a store done. I don't know.
And I as a as a potential witness I'm not allowed to tell
you what we have done. So that I have to sort of be
careful about the way that it's answered Urban, what you think?
My answer might be. Yeah, no.
I just just wanted for the record that I gave you.
Good information, which you guys could have independent of me
could have verified my story or not.
Whether you guys do or do not as your business.
Like I said, I'm not a prosecutor.
I'm not here to point a finger at anyone but I showed you where
to go. So if you guys will do that,
it's your business. But you know, to me, it's like
if you didn't, why didn't you if you want to know the truth about
things, right? So I understand there's some
your sense of what we're here to talk about today.
Obviously know that this statement may be used in court
or leadership to court. As a voluntary statement, a
polygraph obviously is not something that's Court
admissible but I'm not sure if you're aware that, it's not So
the crust of over here to talk about is that it has been
suggested that in the continuing case of The Disappearance of
Elizabeth Bay and the charge of murder against Robert, halt of
age that you are, the alternative suspect are an
alternative assessment. Are you aware of that?
Yeah. Did you kill Elizabeth?
A non June 19th 1990? Well, that's a loaded question.
I mean, are we going to go back and make it go through the time
sequence of what happened in my life?
I mean, I could just give a yes or no answer, but there's a lot
of issues about that, right. Carlos admirer will let where
win? This is why I said to, you guys
are go down there to get a polygraph to get to see if she's
telling the truth. Like why didn't Kevin do it in
the first place? And he's polygraph neighbor with
the Camaro. Why would you make a deal with
someone and not? Give him a polygraph is
something incomprehensible to me, you know?
Because now I'm sipping, my file says her version and it's a lie,
you know, you know what I mean? Like I, you know, and I'm not
making frivolous points here. I mean, a now, you're asking me
after you after you said peel Regional said online about this
and then you're saying I'm lying about my profile.
You're saying I'm lying if I'm better or not now you're saying
hey did you kill this person? I mean well you saying I'm lying
here I could say No, I did but I mean you're a set of my dear
with the peel. You say I'm not coming, I'm not
saying no, but as lying, I'm simply in a giving you
directions to go to find food right now.
And I've asked, and again, I was told you that I've done an
investigation on information that you've told me as a result
of that information. I've been able to Verify my
mind, Reflow me the truth. So if peel region is lying about
you or someone else is lying about you, I had no control over
at work building codes, right? The credit.
Well, absolutely, it does and that's, I guess the, the easy
way that is to say, if we can go through will answer the
questions and, yes, I hope to be able to go through some timeline
to identify where you were, what you were doing specifically in
relation to this this case. And I know I'm giving you guys a
hard time, you know, certain things.
But I mean, really, I mean Human being.
When you guys do all these things, I've got it.
It was all trying truncated. It was the answer to that is no.
But The 800-pound gorilla in the room, is that's a life 25
sentence, you know. It really comes down to
credibility and not only credibility, but then again,
timeline and between what Carlos are, my rules, were
respectively, and it's in. That answers knows that
questions. Did you have anything to do with
her disappearance? Did you know Elizabeth me how'd
you ever met her? I'm going to answer that with
that. I don't remember.
You are obviously aware of her disappearance.
Sort of you recall when you became aware of this.
That's so I can reload recollect this afternoon.
Didn't phones. The date, obviously, June, the
19th, 1990 was but but but you know, other with other than
that, I don't remember, you know, maybe everybody will sort
of get into that a little bit when we hope to go through a bit
of a timeline with you as to some things that may jog your
memory as to where talking back in that time.
I mean, if you asked me what I was doing, three weeks ago on
Tuesday, I probably couldn't tell you, unless you put some
reference to its Will hopefully be able to do that.
And again, obviously June and 18 1990.
You know what you were doing that day.
I have a document here at front of me that references some
points in time around it, June of 1990 period from police
investigation. This is what Indicates.
You may have been involved with our may have certain things.
You may have done that like to go through a couple of them.
Certainly sort of assist you in remembering what you were doing
back in. The first part of June 1990,
actually, June, the first Carla had a doctor's appointment.
Where she was complaining of pains in her right side.
Perhaps she has something to do with the rabies shot.
Does that ring any bells? In the first part of June, you
had a Nissan 240SX design. Yeah.
You're making several trips into the United States, June 2nd
June, 3rd, June 10th, June 60. I think at that point, you were
involved with cigarette smuggling and things like that.
From what I recall is when said no body, that would be, that was
until after making several trips to the states within a couple of
days. That's something when we started
the relationship, just for personal reasons.
On June the 16th. You shopped rough-hewn, Niagara
Falls. United states.
Is that store sound familiar to you?
I think there must be received and again, I don't have all the
details. I'm just going by what school is
cheating. Black expandable binder is that
that would have been around the same time, that was about a week
prior to. If you purchased one of those
Elizabeth, I have no idea when I purchased it.
I just recall, I had something like that.
Like an accordion binder. June, June, the 60th again,
that's has been the same day in St.
Catherine's. You tended a movie Back to the
Future 3, if you recall that movie came out.
There's a receipt for a cell phone.
Purchased at a Radio Shack at the Town and Country Mall and
sixty three. Sixty six Young Street.
Remember, buying a cell phone. You know, I bought a cell phone
around that time, because declared bankruptcy and in my
other one in and I bought the, I don't know the dates that would
have been the day after Elizabeth Bay went missing.
So that you remember anything you were involved with around
that time. You said you were going
bankrupt. So what type of activity were
involved in Toronto David and always bleeding a bankruptcies
that happened Around a couple days before the sexual assault
that the conversation. If I recollect collectively
correctly, it was two days before I file for that.
But I couldn't tell you that day.
I just wanted some time. What do you say that was junice?
June, the 16th of 1991. Was that sexual assault is the
24th. There was one, there was a
sexual assault in May 1990 thinking that it is, but it
doesn't say that specifically here, but shortly after that, my
timelines off the end of June of 1990 that original with someone
identified. You personally, as the
Scarborough rapist the bank and when was that, that was June
28th of 1990. Lori Humboldt has 19th.
Birthday was June. The 22nd 1992 call her 19th
birthday. I know, I don't mess around that
time. Only reason, I will give you
legal drinking age. June 21st.
So just the day after you buy the cell phone, The approaches
that something was additional and what they did I buy them.
June 20th was a big W itself. June 2019.
Yeah, must I must have been a Serial then because I got that
cell phone and I had to hand my all my items into the trustee
had a Panasonic cell phone. So right around the same time, I
don't think I would have a month without it.
I might have but But anyways I don't know.
Yeah it was a while ago so yeah May the night of the 29th which
was just before they are about a month before.
That was the day that the police release, the columns also wasn't
a plastic. So that was a lucky guy for 15
years ago. So I guess I waited a month.
So, the cell phone about a month to get this off.
Did you recall anything? What room?
What were you doing? Sorry, Journal.
Probably the same thing is, they're going across the border
before the restoration of stuff. I know, Tammy happened in July
third week, in July for the first time, this was about,
Just prior to Timmy's birthday. There was some shopping and the
Canadian Tire store and start driving you.
Where is our story Lori's birthday?
Two times in one day, he went to Canadian Tire on Sheppard.
Avenue, 2019 Sheppard Avenue. Normally shop at Canadian Tire
stores. That's before all these
Supercenter in Walmart's and stuff.
Do you ever recall having any conversations about The
Disappearance of Elizabeth bait? If I if I played you it's going
to play us a short audio clip. It's a conversation that you had
our conversation between ending War who was an investigator with
the Toronto police and Karla Homolka just going to play the
see if this sounds familiar, it jogs your memory as to any
conversation you may have had And again, that that was a
conversation between investigator, told me more with
the Toronto Police Service. Does that conversation would not
something? They may recall saying that the
Carlin are talking about that, you know, she went down, the
Paul did catch, phrase was a child pollen, it's Paul, she's
continuing the fact of the matter was.
I didn't pay attention to anything.
I didn't watch the news back then, I was too busy doing other
things, I didn't pay attention, like the profile I'll is a
serial killer pays attention to all the news media.
This is narcissistic personality, blah, blah, blah,
all that crap. I don't know anything about this
case. Now, I don't know what this guy
did it. I don't even care.
I'm a prosecutor. You know, do the right thing for
society, blah, blah blah. I don't know if you get it, I
don't even faster it through those if you did it.
And I certainly didn't so to say that for Rita made, she's a
legend that I made a statement boyfriend, did it.
Well, you know, some cases I have fault because I am in jail
and I've nothing else to do, but watch it.
TV, but I weigh the facts. You know, I take you know like
what did old gay do it? For example, you weren't you
weigh the facts about me or whether did not he got off.
So that's a lot, but I wouldn't have to wait the facts.
I don't know the facts and circumstances.
So there's no way I can make a statement such as that.
How could I say he did it? If I don't know, the facts of
the case and it may depend on when that conversation took
place. Between between her and an
estimator deal with me. If I remember reading the
transcripts, I was a name required.
Hey, I'm giving you the truth. Are you guys can prove me wrong.
So down there asked her to get a no.
Keep telling everyone does it. But but you know so that sounds
like that conversation but that's what you do.
You want to play the other person?
Do you do you know Robert Malkovich?
Okay, so I purposely avoided this case, right?
I don't like this, the shit in my mind, you know, anything to
do, you know, unfortunately Carla came out I watch and try
to discern truth back between fiction a couple years ago.
But otherwise, you know, I don't like to get into these things.
I've had a hundred lifetimes for stuff and I don't want my mind
poisoned with this and this, and this side of this case, But I
have some. Anything else you'd like to tell
us about this investigation? Okay, the time now is 235, will
conclude this portion of our interview.