1 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:10,400 We'll get the final numbers and lots more thoughts on the whole 2 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,600 Bernardo case, Tuesday at 7:00, with our lives, special talk TV, 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,500 the Bernardo trial, we want your views, fax us, email us, call 4 00:00:18,500 --> 00:00:21,200 us, and then join us live Tuesday at 7:00. 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,700 Everybody dismembered in the shallow, Waters of Lake Gibb 6 00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:25,700 system. Prince's body was found on a 7 00:00:25,700 --> 00:00:31,500 side road is just above and beyond any other murder trial 8 00:00:31,500 --> 00:00:34,600 that I've ever covered curiosity. 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,900 That was a such a sick mind would do something like this. 10 00:00:38,900 --> 00:00:40,700 I think the facts will speak for themselves. 11 00:00:40,900 --> 00:00:43,900 She's just as sick as he is, it doesn't seem real is read it and 12 00:00:43,900 --> 00:00:46,900 we respond to Horrors that are beyond our imagination. 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,900 He looks so innocent. Everything in the papers, all 14 00:00:49,900 --> 00:01:00,400 Bernardo guilty, good evening and Welcome to our talk 15 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,500 television special tonight days. After Paul, Bernardo was 16 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:05,400 convicted of the first-degree murders of Chris. 17 00:01:05,500 --> 00:01:09,200 And French and Leslie, mahaffy. Many questions about the case? 18 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,500 Remain Carlos deal. Bernardo's appeal and the other 19 00:01:12,500 --> 00:01:15,600 charges, he still faces over the next hour. 20 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,400 We're going to hear from you, as well as our panel of special 21 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,200 guests on this night of talk television. 22 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:29,100 But first, the victims of this horror Quiet communities to 23 00:01:29,100 --> 00:01:33,700 innocent girls and their unspeakable fate at the hands of 24 00:01:33,700 --> 00:01:39,400 this man. And this woman, Leslie mahaffy, 25 00:01:39,700 --> 00:01:45,700 14 abducted, June 1991, her cruelly dismembered remains 26 00:01:45,700 --> 00:01:50,700 found two weeks later and tuned in a lake found on the same day. 27 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:56,500 They were married less than a year. 28 00:01:56,500 --> 00:01:59,900 Later fifteen-year-old Kristen French becomes prey for the 29 00:01:59,908 --> 00:02:03,300 barnardo's abducted. Walking home from school. 30 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,400 And if those were the only images we ever had of Kristen 31 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,000 and Leslie, that would be terrible enough, but none of us 32 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,500 was prepared for the horrors to come out of that Courthouse as 33 00:02:17,500 --> 00:02:20,600 we learned of the final hours of their lives. 34 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,900 A Chronicle of degradation dehumanization and torture. 35 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,100 He said it was to satisfy and out-of-control sex life. 36 00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:38,200 He said that he enjoyed violating a Leslie, mahaffy as 37 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,000 punishment. He said he was aroused waiting 38 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,800 for a sobbing. Kristen French to perform sex 39 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,900 acts on him. Can we begin to imagine what 40 00:02:47,900 --> 00:02:52,300 they suffered or the sufferings of their families and to be in 41 00:02:52,300 --> 00:02:56,700 that courtroom to hear the soul shattering screams of the two 42 00:02:56,700 --> 00:02:59,800 girls that could only be the peak of the agony. 43 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:05,600 They Carried for so long Do you want to know? 44 00:03:06,900 --> 00:03:11,900 That we are thinking of you and that everything can be done is 45 00:03:11,900 --> 00:03:15,700 being done. We love you Kristen and we're 46 00:03:15,700 --> 00:03:19,400 constantly in our thoughts and our prayers will get you home 47 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:20,800 real fast. Thank you. 48 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:25,100 I'll father is tearful appeal that will never forget toward 49 00:03:25,100 --> 00:03:27,900 the very start his daughters ordeal. 50 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,200 They'd already had to deal with their daughters deaths during 51 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,600 the trial. They had to deal with the horror 52 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,600 of how they had lived. Their last moments to see their 53 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,900 girls violated to hear them cry out, but the families were there 54 00:03:45,900 --> 00:03:49,500 through it, all is an ultimate Act of love for Christian at 55 00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:53,000 Leslie. They endured only the true, 56 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,400 there are many ways for you to join our discussion tonight. 57 00:03:55,400 --> 00:04:00,700 Through our city online Center by phone at 8:00, 7:00 7716, It 58 00:04:00,708 --> 00:04:06,300 also fax us with your comments or questions at 593 news NE WS 59 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:12,300 or email by keying and pulse at City tv.com will start taking 60 00:04:12,300 --> 00:04:15,000 your comments and speak live with our panel tonight. 61 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,300 Right? After a short break, we'll be 62 00:04:16,300 --> 00:04:28,000 right back. Registered with our phone pole 63 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,400 yet 8702 242, if? Yes, you think the crown should 64 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:36,000 have cut a deal with Karla Homolka, 870 4424 if no you do 65 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:49,000 not. The tapes now, a, who in the 66 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,800 right mind and as your total perverted freak would want to do 67 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,600 those teams. Anyways, I just insane. 68 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,800 Well thing should be locked up in a vault or burned or 69 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,700 something because no one should see that. 70 00:04:57,700 --> 00:04:59,900 I feel sorry for anybody that would want to see that. 71 00:05:00,100 --> 00:05:02,300 And if you do, there's a place like this down the street, on 72 00:05:02,300 --> 00:05:04,200 Yonge Street, 25-cent, peep show. 73 00:05:04,300 --> 00:05:07,700 You get all kinds that stuff. Okay, so don't need try and why 74 00:05:07,700 --> 00:05:09,700 would you wanna see someone suffers doesn't make any sense, 75 00:05:09,700 --> 00:05:12,700 right. if you want to do just a sick and twisted as Bernardo 76 00:05:12,700 --> 00:05:23,100 ends the range life, Welcome back to talk television, Paul. 77 00:05:23,100 --> 00:05:26,200 Bernardo the thirty one-year-old baby faced bookkeeper. 78 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,800 The boy next door, the Mind behind some of the most horrific 79 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,100 of crimes bench in takes us inside that mind. 80 00:05:33,100 --> 00:05:37,300 Now, through video tapes, which members of the jury never got to 81 00:05:37,300 --> 00:05:50,900 see You're listening to a sobbing. 82 00:05:50,900 --> 00:05:54,800 Paul, Bernardo begging for Karla Homolka to come back home back 83 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,300 to the marital bliss. That was once captured in these 84 00:05:57,300 --> 00:06:00,000 photographs, but was shattered in this flashlight. 85 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:17,000 Attack in January, 93. It was a wedding Carla appeared. 86 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,800 So proud of that went on in the summer of 91. 87 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,900 Despite her testimony six months earlier, he had forced her into 88 00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:27,500 the videotape, sexual assault of her own baby sister, Tammy, 89 00:06:27,500 --> 00:06:30,100 along with him. The 15 year old died. 90 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,500 The casualty of a one-night stand that just would not end 91 00:06:33,700 --> 00:06:36,800 between her big sister Carla. The once, little girl who loved 92 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:41,300 furry animals and Paul Bernardo Want to be businessman. 93 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:49,300 You ever get caught? No. 94 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:52,400 Never why? On the deadly innocent guy? 95 00:06:52,900 --> 00:06:56,100 I'll kick your ass and Men off to stir the guy who always 96 00:06:56,100 --> 00:07:04,200 wanted to be more than just one of the guys becoming anything 97 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,300 better than what one of the guys would consider pretty great. 98 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:19,900 A party animal of gates, anything can be made to look 99 00:07:19,900 --> 00:07:22,200 foreboding and ominous and retrospect. 100 00:07:22,300 --> 00:07:24,700 But who would have read so much into one of three fun-loving, 101 00:07:24,700 --> 00:07:26,200 guys. Predictably acting like they're 102 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,900 in some beer commercial, while they're away on holidays. 103 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,700 There's nothing special about this street either, just another 104 00:07:31,700 --> 00:07:34,100 Charming tree lines to Bourbon Street in Scarborough. 105 00:07:34,100 --> 00:07:37,200 Well, Bernardo grew up in that house right over there. 106 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,200 And now, as you listen to some of his Ambitions from his 107 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,600 so-called suicide tape, take a look at video, he shot of his 108 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,900 own bedroom. The slogans that he put up on 109 00:07:45,900 --> 00:07:47,900 the wall. All of the things he wanted to 110 00:07:47,900 --> 00:07:51,400 be. The average, the average guy 111 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,700 tried to be large, I try to be the best thing. 112 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,800 If you ever watched it because I needed maybe I don't know why. 113 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,700 I just really tried to be the best for everybody. 114 00:08:05,700 --> 00:08:09,800 I want to be the world. Bernardo always wanted to hear, 115 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,100 larger-than-life, Praises from his victims, Kristen French and 116 00:08:13,100 --> 00:08:15,400 Leslie. Mahaffy on those other video 117 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,100 tapes, we can't show you even as they were forced into degrading. 118 00:08:19,100 --> 00:08:22,200 Sex acts inside this house is perfect. 119 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,400 Little Port deluzy Bungalow police later ripped apart, in a 120 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:27,900 futile. Search, for the video. 121 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,300 Here's the basement. Where Leslie? 122 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,600 Happy's body was dismembered. Here's the bathroom where 123 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,600 Bernardo had Kristen French. Try on perfume and acts for his 124 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,299 porno movie. Here's the bedroom where both 125 00:08:41,299 --> 00:08:44,800 teams died. Well, they stayed with him 126 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:49,400 through all that stubbornly relentlessly playing house, no 127 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,200 matter what was really going on in the real world. 128 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:05,200 It's something. That the victims were swallowed 129 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,200 up for such absurd. Banal, fantasy, a fantasy world, 130 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,800 you might find hilarious if it wasn't. 131 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:20,200 So, tragic, stuff is Christ. What does feel kid, huh? 132 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:31,000 Would two, three, four. All right, let's get to members 133 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,000 some of our Who have shown up here tonight? 134 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,000 John Rosen. Paul Bernardo is Laura, thanks 135 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,700 for being here tonight. You were quoted at one time. 136 00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:41,500 I guess relatively recently, as saying that this guy was just 137 00:09:41,500 --> 00:09:44,700 like the rest of us. Basically, a regular guy except 138 00:09:44,700 --> 00:09:46,400 for the fact that he had a few problems. 139 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,700 You really believe that. Well, he is a human being and he 140 00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:54,000 does start off the like the rest of us is a certain genetic 141 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,500 makeup and he's subject to whatever environmental pressures 142 00:09:57,900 --> 00:10:01,600 growing up as some of us are there's nothing certainly 143 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,900 Dramatic in his background to give any indication that he 144 00:10:04,900 --> 00:10:07,800 would commit some of the offenses that he's alleged to 145 00:10:07,808 --> 00:10:09,800 have committed. When it all came out, when you 146 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,200 knew what he had done, aside from the fact that you are his 147 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,200 lawyer and your must maintain a certain decorum, but as a human 148 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,700 being, what kind of things were going through your mind. 149 00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:23,600 Well, I try and divorce the client from the allegation. 150 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,500 Otherwise, I lose my objectivity but you know, no doubt. 151 00:10:27,500 --> 00:10:30,200 Some of these things are pretty horrendous and even he admits 152 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:35,100 that they are and particularly in retrospect, I think he's also 153 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:37,500 come to grips with the fact that he's had a problem. 154 00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:40,300 Something that I don't think he appreciated at the time that 155 00:10:40,300 --> 00:10:42,500 they were happening. He will be launching an appeal. 156 00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:45,100 Of course, you are on record as having said, so, well, I 157 00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:47,400 recommended it. The process is underway. 158 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,800 It may take a little bit of Time, but certainly that's going 159 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,200 to happen, what that's only in respect to the murder 160 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,200 convictions, because his position has been and always 161 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,000 probably will be that he didn't cause the death of these two 162 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,200 girls and therefore, isn't guilty of first-degree murder on 163 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,100 what grounds where your launched a peel, is it, you took issue 164 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:07,800 with judge. Lesage has a charge to the jury. 165 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:09,100 Will that be the grounds for your appeal? 166 00:11:09,100 --> 00:11:11,400 That's one of them. There's been a number of legal 167 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,100 rulings as well and that occurred during the course of 168 00:11:15,100 --> 00:11:17,000 the trial. So that will also form part of 169 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,100 it. And there may be other things 170 00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:20,000 coming. Up on the record as well. 171 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,400 So, I will get back to you in a second jhana. 172 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,500 Part of our interactive format, involves a call. 173 00:11:24,500 --> 00:11:26,100 We have Craig from Brampton on the line. 174 00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:28,000 Good evening. Craig, what would you like to 175 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,500 say? I just wanted to say that. 176 00:11:29,500 --> 00:11:32,400 I do agree with the crown, making a deal with a mocha 177 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,200 because I think at that time, they didn't have enough as of it 178 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,900 evidence to prosecute and I think her testimony was crucial. 179 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,100 And at the time they didn't have the tapes which is more crucial 180 00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:48,500 I think but At the time I still. I firmly believe that the the 181 00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:50,800 crown did their job. Alright. 182 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:51,800 Thank you for calling in tonight. 183 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,900 Greg bench in is followed the case from the outset to, or at 184 00:11:54,900 --> 00:11:56,700 least, you know, the legalese part of it. 185 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,200 But laurenhonican who also worked in our Newsroom, followed 186 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,300 it from the very beginning, when the crimes were happening and no 187 00:12:03,300 --> 00:12:05,200 suspect was had at that time, Lauren. 188 00:12:05,300 --> 00:12:07,600 Well, that's right, I was reading a lot of interesting 189 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,000 things in the paper this weekend about possible, inquiries and 190 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,700 calls for inquiries. And I remember back then doing 191 00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:17,400 so many stories, He's looking, for example, for cream-colored 192 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,900 Camaros and and trying to get information out of the Niagara 193 00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:24,100 Regional Police back then so a whole separate issue of this 194 00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:26,500 whole case. And it's so enormous is the 195 00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:29,400 investigation itself and what happened at the beginning and 196 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,500 what happened with the police at the beginning when they came so 197 00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:35,700 close to having Bernardo and and what lives could have been 198 00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:38,300 saved. And there's so much that yet has 199 00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:40,800 to come out. And I think back to those to 200 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,700 those years and remembering that back, then we had no information 201 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,000 and there was this big Fight between the media and the 202 00:12:47,008 --> 00:12:49,500 police. And so many things that came out 203 00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:53,100 then and there has been heavy criticism of the police 204 00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:55,100 throughout the investigation throughout the trial. 205 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,400 A lot of people said, well you know, they could have had this 206 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,500 guy. For example, the night that 207 00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:04,100 Bernardo was driving home with Swiss Chalet in his car and 208 00:13:04,100 --> 00:13:06,600 somebody had followed him with with everything, but the last 209 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,300 digit of his license plate. That's right. 210 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:10,500 There's a, there are a few actually a couple of lemons from 211 00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:12,200 st. Catharines who called in 212 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:14,500 license, plate numbers, one of them got the whole thing, right? 213 00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:17,800 But I think Think they had about 12 stalking incidents that year, 214 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,800 but they didn't investigate that one is the author. 215 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:21,800 Stephen Williams is talked about. 216 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,900 They were more concerned about saw marks, on on different 217 00:13:25,900 --> 00:13:28,100 things that they were sending away to as far away as Memphis 218 00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:30,000 Tennessee. I mean, that that's all the the 219 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,700 background for why you need a deal you know at that point from 220 00:13:33,700 --> 00:13:35,900 the Crown's office. But I wonder you know, when you 221 00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:38,800 look at our phone pull the numbers are way skewed against 222 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,400 the deal and I wonder if some of those people are saying we want 223 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,100 to know why you got into the position to make that deal to 224 00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:46,300 have to make. That deal. 225 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,600 I also have actually a question for that last caller. 226 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,900 I don't know if he's still there but the question is you know you 227 00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:54,200 may feel that the deal was necessary at the time in order 228 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,900 to go after the suspect. But do you think that you needed 229 00:13:57,900 --> 00:14:01,200 to cut Karla Homolka another deal once the trial got underway 230 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,200 and the Jane Doe sexual assault? Should that have been swept 231 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,800 under? So because she was testifying, 232 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,300 we have somebody on the line now from Dundas who began the 233 00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:10,100 petition against Carla. Good evening. 234 00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:11,800 Hello. What would you like to say? 235 00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:16,900 Well, Um I don't think that they should have made the deal either 236 00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:21,900 the second deal and I believe that also encompassed a me, the 237 00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:25,900 sister like she told that after they found the tapes and they 238 00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:30,400 said that she students at in jail I guess and thought well 239 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,900 gee they found those takes. What about the argument though? 240 00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:35,700 If they, if they didn't do the deal with Carla, they basically 241 00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:38,200 had nothing against Bernardo because at that point, they 242 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,400 didn't have the videotapes. That's right. 243 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,400 But when they did have the videotapes and And then they 244 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,900 realized there were two other victims on the tapes. 245 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:47,700 They didn't have to make another deal with her. 246 00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:49,100 Yeah. They could have had a right 247 00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:50,800 there and they could have charged her with first-degree 248 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:51,600 murder. Yeah. 249 00:14:51,900 --> 00:14:53,700 Where's Christie? Christie blatchford from the 250 00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:57,100 Toronto Sun you ever covered anything of remotely horrific as 251 00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:01,600 this in your career as horrific but not for such a prolonged 252 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,300 period of time. I mean, that was the tough part 253 00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:05,800 I suppose, unless you what did you come away from The Trial 254 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:12,000 feeling like Dreadful? But I mean, tired, emotionally 255 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,300 drained, all the things. Everybody. 256 00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:16,500 I think involved in it feels and unsatisfied. 257 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:20,400 I don't blame lawyers for being nervous about the prospect of 258 00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:22,800 having politicians, try and undo. 259 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,500 What is done in the court system deals such as this. 260 00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:28,900 But I think what the public is probably owed is some sort of 261 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,400 accounting from people in the Attorney General's office, The 262 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,800 Architects of this deal just to tell us what their rationale was 263 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,400 to tell us what their thinking, was the only kind of explanation 264 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,400 we've ever had came from. Ray Houlihan sort of toward the 265 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,100 end of the trial and he Wasn't one of the dealmakers. 266 00:15:44,100 --> 00:15:46,800 I'd like to hear from every Siegel and Michael Cote and I 267 00:15:46,808 --> 00:15:49,000 think we should worry. Seagull is basically the 268 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,300 architect of the deal is you know as I suspect Michael? 269 00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:54,500 Cody has to I believe he was pretty pretty involved. 270 00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:58,300 And I mean perhaps this was a this was a political decision in 271 00:15:58,308 --> 00:16:01,500 the end coming out of the then Attorney General's office, Mary, 272 00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:03,700 Ann, Boyd, and perhaps she should be asked a few questions 273 00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:06,700 too, and that's not to say we should undo it, but that we 274 00:16:06,700 --> 00:16:09,500 should be told what the hell went on will get back to 275 00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:11,400 Carla's? Vo on the Bernardo trial right? 276 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:12,800 After a short break, we'll be right? 277 00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:14,900 Right back with our talk, television special. 278 00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:24,300 We're counting your vote, 870 2242. 279 00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:26,400 If you think the crown should have cut a deal with Karla 280 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,900 Homolka, 870 4424 if no, you do not, we'll update the numbers 281 00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:32,600 all night long. Give you the final tally 282 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:41,600 tomorrow, night at six. Well frankly, I don't agree with 283 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,500 that. The other cross chop with Karla 284 00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:46,100 Homolka. I mean, I'm not against me one. 285 00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:48,800 The totally against the plate. A bargain that they call it 286 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,300 North American continent. But that was a little unfair, I 287 00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:56,600 mean, for her to get a manslaughter, which was 12 288 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:57,500 years. Thank you. 289 00:16:57,500 --> 00:16:58,800 Sure. Got the first degree. 290 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,800 Welcome back to talk television, one of the most controversial 291 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,099 aspects of the Bernardo trial was the deal cut by the crown 292 00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:18,000 with Karla Homolka. The plea bargain deal, many 293 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,300 people believe that whole thing should be reopened. 294 00:17:20,300 --> 00:17:23,500 But first before we get into that, here's how the deal came 295 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:33,000 about in the first place. February 1993, the sex slings 296 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:38,600 have two schoolgirls long. Unsolved green ribbon task, 297 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,600 force cream-colored Camaro, thousands of phone tips. 298 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:49,600 The backdrop of the deal early 1993, a bruised and battered. 299 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,400 Karla Bernardo is removed by her father from the house she shared 300 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,100 with husband Paul. She X2 Niagara police about her 301 00:17:57,100 --> 00:18:00,400 alleged abuse, but when the green ribbon task force first 302 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:05,000 calls her, she puts them off. Instead goes to a bar meets. 303 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,100 A man as good time only days later. 304 00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:12,300 Does she talk with detectives? Then those two lawyer, George 305 00:18:12,300 --> 00:18:15,400 Walker. The deal Wheels were in motion 306 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,200 and on February 17th. Paul bernardo's arrest. 307 00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:20,900 But why? I pursued a deal? 308 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,000 Why then in his closing arguments here at the Bernardo 309 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,500 trial, Prosecutor Ray. Houlihan suggested that prior to 310 00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:31,600 the final deal with Karla Homolka police had really, no 311 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,700 hard evidence linking Paul Bernardo to the French Mahaffey 312 00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:37,900 murders police spent weeks searching the couple's Port 313 00:18:37,900 --> 00:18:40,900 deluzy house. But DNA results would not be 314 00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:43,500 available for months and the key evidence. 315 00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:48,000 The infamous videotapes would not surface for over a year. 316 00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:53,800 Tapes chronicling the sex assaults Kristen French Leslie, 317 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,400 mahaffy, Tammy Homolka, tapes removed from barnardo's house by 318 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,800 his, former lawyer, Ken Murray tapes, Murray did not hand over 319 00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:08,200 until he quit the case. 16 months later in September 1994, 320 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,800 it was against that backdrop, no, videotapes and little direct 321 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,600 evidence that Karla Homolka is deal. 322 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,900 Was struck at first, the mochas lawyers, demanded blanket 323 00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:20,900 immunity it was Failed in this handwritten statement by then 324 00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:25,600 Karla Bernardo dated February 13th, 1993 immunity that quote 325 00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:29,300 would have pertain to any alleged offenses committed by me 326 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,400 or any offenses that I am alleged to have been a party to 327 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:38,800 or accessory to, but there was to be no blanket, immunity the 328 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:43,000 deal-making went back and forth. Still no videotapes desperate 329 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,700 for evidence to damn Bernardo but wary of giving an accomplice 330 00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:51,800 no time the two sides Settle for a 10-year sentence, 54 Kristen, 331 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,100 French 54, Leslie? Mahaffy, are you in the 332 00:19:55,108 --> 00:19:58,600 Christmas cheer? That's only one you are only 333 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,100 after police began probing. The death of Carlos baby, sister 334 00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:08,000 Tammy was the deal reworked to 12 years For her testimony, her 335 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,700 help the crown promised not to interfere with her parole. 336 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,000 Then just this past, June, the crown decided not to charge 337 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,900 Homolka for her part. In the videotape, sex assault of 338 00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:22,100 a woman, the court called Jane, Doe and assault. 339 00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:24,300 Homolka said she did not remember. 340 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,300 So by June Karla Homolka was waiting to testify against her 341 00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:31,900 ex-husband. Now she waits for the full 342 00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:36,200 parole that could be hers by the summer of 1997. 343 00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:39,700 Go back to the phones. Now, on the line with this Carol 344 00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:42,300 from Burlington, Carol, I understand you were a friend of 345 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,000 Leslie, mahaffy. Is that correct? 346 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,400 Yes, actually my daughter and Leslie grew up together. 347 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,000 They went to public school together and they had their 13th 348 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,800 birthday, pajama party and I just want people to realize that 349 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,100 it's not forgotten. Its she'll never be the same, 350 00:20:58,300 --> 00:21:01,700 the pictures are on the wall. I can't begin to tell you what 351 00:21:01,700 --> 00:21:04,300 it's done to our family, obviously very traumatic for 352 00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:06,200 your daughter as well as your whole family has. 353 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,800 Especially in an age of 13 14, this hits pretty hard. 354 00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:12,700 Yes, very hard. It's in North Burlington. 355 00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:14,800 We went through hell. We couldn't let her daughter's 356 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,000 out. We spent times with Debbie 357 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,100 Mahaffey, you know, and when the radio announcement came that the 358 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,800 body they found had brown hair and brown eyes. 359 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,200 We were relieved. Yeah, I had to phone a radio 360 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,700 station and when they identified it as Leslie, I can't tell you 361 00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:30,100 what happened. Terra, what did you think of the 362 00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:31,400 deal? The crown cut with Karla 363 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,000 Homolka? It makes me sick. 364 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,200 The whole thing makes me sick and that lawyer that sits there. 365 00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:39,800 Aaron says, Paul Bernardo started out normal, he was never 366 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,700 normal. He was evil from day one. 367 00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:46,900 What he did isn't even human. I can't, I know in his heart. 368 00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:51,400 He knows what we feel like, with daughters that we can't. 369 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,100 Imagine must have suffered what Leslie and Kristen did adults. 370 00:21:55,100 --> 00:21:57,900 Don't suffer that way. Yeah, they're usually, they're 371 00:21:57,900 --> 00:22:01,100 murderers are Kinder. This man was an animal and 372 00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:03,200 doesn't deserve to live as far as I'm concerned. 373 00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:04,800 Yeah. Thank you very much for calling 374 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,800 and Carol tonight. These were not the acts of a 375 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,300 rational human being. Why didn't you go for a plea of 376 00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:17,600 insanity? I'd rather not say the righty of 377 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,200 reasons we had, we had our reasons, and I really can't 378 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,900 discuss it, but just an answer to what this lady has to say, I 379 00:22:23,900 --> 00:22:26,200 want to make it perfectly, clear that mr. 380 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,400 Brian and I am a style of form the defense team. 381 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,100 I had every sympathy with the victims and their families and 382 00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:36,100 Ameri fact, the way we conducted the trial, the way from 383 00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:41,000 beginning to end at least we hope was in consideration of 384 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,400 that. Nobody could undo the harm 385 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,300 that's been done. Nobody could bring these girls 386 00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:47,300 back to life. It's the issue. 387 00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:50,000 The issues were limited. There were legal issues. 388 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,900 There was no situation here, where mr. 389 00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:56,400 Bernardo was protesting, his innocence. 390 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,500 What he was saying is that I didn't commit murder. 391 00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:02,500 I committed the other offenses and I deserve to be punished and 392 00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:05,700 they said that under oath is the reason you didn't go for a plea 393 00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:07,700 of insanity. The fact that when you go to a 394 00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:10,400 home for their or an institution for the criminally insane, 395 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,200 you're probably never get out. Whereas Thought you might have a 396 00:23:13,208 --> 00:23:15,100 shot of getting them off. The murder charges. 397 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,000 No, I know that that. Wasn't it at all. 398 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,100 There were other reasons but that wasn't the one mr. 399 00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:27,400 Porter has there, is there precedent for overturning the 400 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,800 deal with Carla that the crown has done? 401 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,700 Is there any way that that deal can be overturned? 402 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,500 There's not a precedent that I'm aware of. 403 00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:37,000 I would, I would think that it would be impossible this time to 404 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,300 overturn, that deal that was made with Karla Homolka. 405 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,900 I mean, the public wants blood. I mean, they want her nail to 406 00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:45,600 how can it be done? Or can it be done? 407 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,800 New evidence new charges. I think they have to go to the 408 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,700 parole board. I think the public has to save 409 00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:55,400 their product, their protest for the parole board. 410 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,100 I don't think there's anything that can be done through the 411 00:23:57,100 --> 00:24:01,200 courts. It's hard to understand why 412 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,800 there was a munity offered on the gene do transaction, which 413 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,600 wasn't part of the original deal and maybe that will be explained 414 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,900 at some point. But so far as the original deal 415 00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:15,500 with, Two, French and Mahaffey. It's a done deal. 416 00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:18,600 Oh yes. There's clearly an issue with 417 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,300 respect to Jane Doe. I mean, let's face it here's a 418 00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:23,700 woman who claims not to remember to anything. 419 00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:29,000 She called 911 twice on one occasion because this woman was 420 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,000 in distress and then the second time to call the ambulance off 421 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,200 and she doesn't remember. I mean, that's just impossible. 422 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,100 No one could possibly buy into that story and the deal with the 423 00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:42,300 government made with her, this time around right before she was 424 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,800 Has to take. The stand is just unconscionable 425 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,200 which brings to mind. Ken Murray been? 426 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,300 Yeah, absolutely. There was, where was where was 427 00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:52,700 his mind while this is going on? Well, I don't know, I've Ken 428 00:24:52,700 --> 00:24:56,500 Murray and I haven't spoken since he got off the pulpit. 429 00:24:56,500 --> 00:25:01,000 Okay, so there are certainly questions but only he can answer 430 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,200 at what I mean. He quit over moral and ethical 431 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,900 grounds. We don't know when he believed 432 00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:09,600 that he had those problems. Actually, when I was listening 433 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,400 to you talking to all the lawyers there, I was wondering 434 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,700 what Priscilla. They would think about the deal. 435 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,300 I know I mean it seems when you look over the deal, the victims 436 00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:20,000 families had to have been consulted what's caveats 437 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,100 position on. How do you feel Priscilla 438 00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:26,100 looking at Karla Homolka going to jail for 12 years maximum and 439 00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:28,100 possibly being out earlier than that? 440 00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:32,200 Well obviously it's very distressing and I have to say, I 441 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,300 went into my office for to quiet hours yesterday and had over 30 442 00:25:36,300 --> 00:25:39,800 phone calls of people. Absolutely, outraged, I think 443 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,000 there is a great sense of moral outrage. 444 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,900 I think we have to remember that when the deal was made with 445 00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:48,200 Karla Homolka, they did not have anything else and it was 446 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,800 enormous public pressure and fear of this person on the 447 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,600 street. So if there's something that I 448 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,900 think I heard Christy raising earlier, which is this, that 449 00:25:55,900 --> 00:25:59,600 part of my own personal problem with the deal is the way it was 450 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,200 sold the Attorney General's, the the sort of the Michael Cote the 451 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,500 Maurice Eagles their way up there. 452 00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:06,600 You never get to touch them. You never get to see them. 453 00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:08,500 You just see their robes passing in the Halls. 454 00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:11,700 They make this deal on behalf of all of us who pay their 455 00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:13,700 salaries. They did man, but they were 456 00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:15,900 between a rock and a hard place went they, well, why don't they 457 00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:17,500 tell us that? Well, they should tell us. 458 00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:19,000 I agree. But more than that they weren't 459 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,400 between a rock and a hard place when it came to Jane Doe. 460 00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:23,900 And there was new evidence that the defense brought out at 461 00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:27,600 trial, which shows that there were two assaults and that Karla 462 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,100 Homolka had only barely remembered one. 463 00:26:30,100 --> 00:26:33,400 So, I mean, there may be grounds to reopen that matter and 464 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,300 there's certainly somebody in that attorney general's office. 465 00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:39,100 Should tell us, what were they thinking that on the eve of her 466 00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:41,700 testimony, they have to offer her. 467 00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:44,500 And some new protections and the Jane Doe matter. 468 00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:46,700 And the other thing is and Priscilla would be interested 469 00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:49,100 in. This is that neither Jane Doe 470 00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:52,700 nor her parents agreed to this sort of second deal being 471 00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:54,800 offered. They were, in fact, solidly 472 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,500 opposed to it. They wanted no part of it and 473 00:26:57,500 --> 00:27:01,500 the AG's office, which was so solicitous of the Mojave and 474 00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:03,400 French families. Basically told them to take a 475 00:27:03,408 --> 00:27:05,500 hike. Let's get some equal Airtime 476 00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:08,400 from the Star here, your observations on the deal. 477 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,000 Well, it was necessary. And the the thing to look at 478 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,600 here is the tapes, were in the house on the 30th and the deal 479 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,100 was signed. The final deal was signed two 480 00:27:19,100 --> 00:27:22,100 weeks later, they didn't find the tapes. 481 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,600 That was what they had to do, what will happen to, to Ken 482 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,300 Marino. I mean, I mean, a lot of people 483 00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:30,900 screaming for his head, he had the tapes, while this deal was 484 00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:32,600 going down. He could have brought them 485 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,300 forward. I mean you did when you had 486 00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:37,300 them. Well, I don't think anybody 487 00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:38,900 should discuss what's going to happen to mr. 488 00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:40,900 Murray. Say, because there's an ongoing 489 00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:44,300 investigation and we have yet to see the results of that 490 00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:47,200 investigation. However, you're giving me the 491 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,300 legal standpoint here. The guy is in serious hot water 492 00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:54,500 and should be roundly, punished for what he did John can 493 00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:57,100 actually, I'm not tall Rod. I knew that I'm only defense 494 00:27:57,100 --> 00:28:00,500 counsel, I'm not a prosecutor, but I can say, is the defense 495 00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:04,200 counsel that my understanding of the law clearly is that you're 496 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,000 not permitted to suppress real evidence. 497 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,500 And if a lawyer comes into possession of Real evidence that 498 00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:13,400 lawyers obliged to turn it over to the authorities. 499 00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:18,400 And and the other thing is that if you have a question about it, 500 00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:23,100 go to the Law Society, ask them for an opinion and then act on 501 00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:25,600 the opinion from what you just told me, it's Case Closed, as 502 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,700 far as Ken Murray is concerned, let's get back to the phone, 503 00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:29,300 Sherry, from Toronto. Good evening, Sherry. 504 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,200 Hi, what would you like to say tonight? 505 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,400 I'd like to know how, come, he's not getting 25 years, / murder 506 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,200 and additional times for each other conviction. 507 00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:43,000 And how his lawyer can sit there and call him human when he's far 508 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,100 from Human. Yeah. 509 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,900 Now why is he getting 25 years and not two consecutive 510 00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:49,300 sentences? Very simple? 511 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,600 You only got One Life to Live and so you can go out and kill 512 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,200 15 people and only spend 25 years. 513 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,600 No, you can only spend one life in jail, all right? 514 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,700 And you may die there. The sentence is a life 515 00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:01,600 imprisonment. Nobody should ever forget that. 516 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,400 That's what he's sitting up at the sentence is life. 517 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,600 No chance of parole for 25 years. 518 00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:07,400 That's right. UK. 519 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,800 So it's conceivable. The guy could be in For 100 520 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:10,600 years. Oh sure. 521 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,500 If he wants to live that long, I mean they can't imagine why 522 00:29:12,508 --> 00:29:14,800 anybody would want to live that long and Kingston Penitentiary 523 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,000 but after 25 years you make an application that doesn't 524 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,800 guarantee that any success. There will be people like 525 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,800 civilian and other friends who will be down there to make to 526 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,500 make the application against him getting parole and and and God 527 00:29:31,500 --> 00:29:33,500 bless them for that if that's their position and 528 00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:35,000 strongly-held. I don't have any problem with 529 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,900 that. All right, we'll get back to 530 00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:39,200 more pertinent issues about the Bernardo case. 531 00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:42,100 And Carlos deal when are talk television, special continues. 532 00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:52,300 After a short break. Should the crowd have cut a deal 533 00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:54,900 with Karla Homolka? That's tonight's poll question. 534 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,300 If? Yes, you think it was proper 535 00:29:56,300 --> 00:30:02,400 colleague 7022 for to know 870 4424, watch for results on City 536 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:09,300 pulse. I think when I turn on the TV, I 537 00:30:09,308 --> 00:30:12,800 didn't want to hear quotes from what he said and you know, I 538 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,800 mean it's a sex thing beating and they were killed. 539 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,100 I mean these girls work Killed and their families are reliving 540 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,800 the events on TV. And I just don't think that it's 541 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:33,600 right. Welcome back to our talk 542 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,000 television, special on the Bernardo trial as a bench in, 543 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,200 and every other media person here, I'm sure it would agree. 544 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,700 This was a grueling and emotional experience, the 545 00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:43,600 Bernardo trial, very tough to cover. 546 00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:46,500 So, tonight, our videographer Dan pet Cove SEC. 547 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,700 Gotta look a closer look at the media by turning his camera on 548 00:30:49,700 --> 00:31:01,600 the people behind the cameras. Why are we here then? 549 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,600 As I said, we report on things. We don't create, has anyone ever 550 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,400 called you a ghoul for being here? 551 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,500 Oh, yeah. Don't people come by and they 552 00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:13,400 showed of their car window. Cool. 553 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,900 Just that cool media scum, stuff like that, we had to beginning. 554 00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:22,700 We work we work described as voyeurs and just trying to sell 555 00:31:22,700 --> 00:31:24,600 newspapers and that kind of thing, I think a lot of people 556 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,000 want to talk to myself, coming the furniture. 557 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,500 This is all, you know, you sick and blah blah blah and why would 558 00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:31,500 you guys do that? But as details start to emerge 559 00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:34,400 about Karla Homolka, Roll all of a sudden at the table's turned, 560 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,400 there's more than just a double murder here. 561 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,700 This is about a system that deals with criminals to get 562 00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:45,400 other criminals Karla. Homolka was sentenced in a 563 00:31:45,408 --> 00:31:47,800 one-day closed-door session. Two years ago there was a 564 00:31:47,808 --> 00:31:51,900 publication ban slept on that. I think that people wanted to 565 00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:54,900 know, no matter how chilling at horrific the details of the 566 00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:57,800 crimes were to see that Justice was being served because of 567 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,000 course, they did not see that in the Karla Homolka trial, these 568 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,800 were bright young women at the In the prime of their lives. 569 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,200 And I think by being here every day and writing about and giving 570 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,000 it a lot of attention that we made them important to 571 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:11,700 everybody. I hope so. 572 00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:12,700 I mean that's what it's all about. 573 00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:16,600 And also to know that you know, evil walks Among Us, I mean it 574 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,000 lives next door, it's got blond hair and blue eyes and it's 575 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,300 cute. As a bug in it can charm the 576 00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:23,400 pants off your parents and you know, office sometimes. 577 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,500 So I think it's all really important. 578 00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:28,300 I was anxious to be here and certainly from a professional 579 00:32:28,300 --> 00:32:29,900 perspective. It's probably the biggest story 580 00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:33,400 all ever cover in my life. Nothing could Prepare you for 581 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,300 the reality of sitting through three and a half, four months of 582 00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:40,900 just the most despicable nauseating. 583 00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:45,100 It's just evil in that corner. It's intrusive later on in your 584 00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:48,800 day or it is a part of your life that you you would stumble up. 585 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,300 You're definitely going to stumble upon it. 586 00:32:50,300 --> 00:32:52,800 Later on everyone exposed to this for months. 587 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,800 Horror show comes away with their own unique, mix of pain 588 00:32:57,900 --> 00:33:01,400 and understanding. However, most agree, it's far 589 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,400 better to know the Then it is to live in ignorance. 590 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,500 I'm Dan petkovic outside the university courthouse for City 591 00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:13,100 pulse, there were people critical of the media's handling 592 00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:15,100 of the Bernardo try one of them on the phone now. 593 00:33:15,100 --> 00:33:17,300 Karen from Downsview. Karen, good evening, hello. 594 00:33:17,300 --> 00:33:18,600 How are you fine? Thank you. 595 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,200 What would you like to say tonight? 596 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,900 Well I understand you know all the coverage during the trial 597 00:33:23,900 --> 00:33:27,700 and I was watching it to my husband wouldn't watch if he was 598 00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:32,000 very upset by it but as a woman and a potential victim my you 599 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,400 know I was in Arrested as well, but I feel that now we're all 600 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,200 playing into this media, frenzy frenzy by watching programs like 601 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,600 this. And I know, I can't turn away 602 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,000 either. I'd like to be able to turn the 603 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,100 TV off. Do you think maybe we're venting 604 00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:47,900 a little bit? We have to know more about why 605 00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:50,900 this happened, and maybe understand a little bit about 606 00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:54,000 ourselves as a society as a whole, I think so. 607 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:59,100 And I think that part of it is seeing as much of as much as 608 00:33:59,100 --> 00:34:04,400 possible on Paul himself and just trying to Then I just can't 609 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,200 understand myself. But the problem is, is that I 610 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,100 think that we've removed ourselves from Kristen and 611 00:34:11,100 --> 00:34:15,300 Leslie and we've become desensitized, and the fact is 612 00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:18,100 that nothing can bring these girls back and it's all the more 613 00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:22,300 horrific that we've turned it into and almost entertainment by 614 00:34:22,300 --> 00:34:24,900 trying to study Paul. And it had to be covered 615 00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:26,600 nonetheless care. And I thank you for calling and 616 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,900 I'm not trying to cut you off, but we do have to move along 617 00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:30,300 here. Been, I think we all suffered 618 00:34:30,300 --> 00:34:33,400 some bruises on our psyche as a Result of this thing. 619 00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:35,500 Yeah, I don't know if I'd go as far as saying this 620 00:34:35,500 --> 00:34:38,000 entertainment. It's gotta be covered. 621 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,000 This is this is an important trial only because there was so 622 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,100 much public interest in it long before Karla Homolka is trial. 623 00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:47,199 When Kristen French went missing one of the things that is hard 624 00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:49,300 for reporter is and I don't think I don't know if others 625 00:34:49,300 --> 00:34:51,500 would agree with me here. A criminal trial isn't really 626 00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:53,900 about the victims, it's about the accused. 627 00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:57,100 So it turns out about whether he's guilty or not, and yes, it 628 00:34:57,100 --> 00:34:59,900 is very hard to you. Can't lose focus on Kristen, 629 00:34:59,900 --> 00:35:01,800 French and Leslie. Mahaffy, that just can't happen. 630 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,700 But at As you are talking about his route you know his guilt or 631 00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:07,900 innocence ships from the crime to the accused in the process. 632 00:35:07,900 --> 00:35:09,500 He goes through Christy. What do you think? 633 00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:10,800 Let me get over here of the microphone. 634 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,200 First of all. Well I mean I think the last 635 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,000 thing the media was any of us were in this case was 636 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,000 insensitive I think none of us. Forgot about Kristen French her 637 00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:23,200 Leslie mahaffy I certainly didn't and I don't think anybody 638 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,600 did. This was a this was a terrible 639 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,900 thing and every day you sat in that courtroom I think it's 640 00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:30,500 important for people like the our last caller to know this 641 00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:32,500 every day we sat in that courtroom we thought of her. 642 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,200 We sat right beside her parents, their parents and we you know, I 643 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,300 mean our pains fraction. I'm not pretending it's 644 00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:42,400 anything, but but everybody felt awful everything that the 645 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,000 defense lawyers felt lousy. I mean that the prosecution felt 646 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,300 lousy, this was a terrible thing and nobody forgot. 647 00:35:48,300 --> 00:35:51,100 I mean, this was the worst example that caller could have 648 00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:53,500 picked to say that this was entertainment. 649 00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:56,100 This was entertainment for nobody, nobody wanted. 650 00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:57,800 This is entertainment, Marianne Boucher. 651 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,700 You were there every day in the court, it's your job as a court 652 00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:03,800 graphic artist to do this. Sketches as you're doing that, 653 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,200 you're hearing all this stuff. What goes through your mind? 654 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,900 Well, I'm certainly at the beginning, it was It was pretty 655 00:36:11,900 --> 00:36:15,800 horrific, of course, but I tried to find a focus that to get 656 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,300 something out of it. And I think that why we were why 657 00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:23,200 we were all there is because who we value, we value people who 658 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,400 are young and strangers who are victimized plucked off the 659 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,100 streets. That's one of our greatest fears 660 00:36:29,700 --> 00:36:34,700 because we don't really give enough value to people who 661 00:36:34,700 --> 00:36:37,400 aren't strangers of their victims because I work in the 662 00:36:37,408 --> 00:36:40,100 courts, I see it all the time and that's what I wanted. 663 00:36:40,300 --> 00:36:43,700 Come have come out of this was that there's a big, big thing. 664 00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:48,100 We have to look at, we have to stop focusing on The Sensational 665 00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:52,300 ization of it in the sense that they were strangers, your 666 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:55,000 thoughts? I don't think the victims will 667 00:36:55,000 --> 00:37:00,000 ever be forgotten. And yes, the moments after the 668 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,600 verdict, the press conference that was held outside in the 669 00:37:02,607 --> 00:37:06,800 steps of the courthouse, the media there were hundreds of 670 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:12,700 people and Dan Mojave came out with his family and Made up a 671 00:37:12,707 --> 00:37:16,000 prepared statement, and and mr. French. 672 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,800 Komodo did the same half words. And there were many wet eyes and 673 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,100 that crowd, and I don't think the media ever going to forget 674 00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:24,200 what they heard in that courtroom. 675 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:26,400 I don't think people are ever gonna forget about these young 676 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,800 women. I want to ask you from being, 677 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,000 from the Rape Crisis Center and and the position that Carla took 678 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,000 of being bruised in the abused battered wife syndrome, she 679 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,600 would not be a poster girl. No, she wouldn't be a poster 680 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,300 girl for battered wife syndrome, which is kind of a lousy concept 681 00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:49,900 anyways, but I believe she was battered and she was treated 682 00:37:49,900 --> 00:37:52,900 very horribly by this man. But she everyone has to take 683 00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:56,400 responsibility for their behavior, many, many, many 684 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,500 battered women. The the moment that they run is 685 00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:01,400 the moment that the violence affects someone else. 686 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,900 That is most often when, when in my experience battered, women 687 00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:07,800 leave the home or change the situation or decide this is 688 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,700 getting to be too much, so I will. 689 00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:13,100 I think it would be a mistake to say that Karla Homolka was a 690 00:38:13,107 --> 00:38:18,200 typical anything frankly and and it's a very complex situation 691 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,800 and issues of violence are very complex and I think one thing 692 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,200 we're always trying to do is make them very simple so that we 693 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,600 can understand them so that we can explain it and then we can 694 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,000 put the blame in one place, and then it goes away because then 695 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,100 it's all explained and wrapped up nicely. 696 00:38:33,100 --> 00:38:37,100 And and this case of if, anything is shown as how complex 697 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,400 violence sexual violence, physical Silence. 698 00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:44,000 Pornography, all of these elements how complex it is a 699 00:38:44,008 --> 00:38:46,200 little beast factors enter into it. 700 00:38:48,700 --> 00:38:52,400 That earlier, you know, in terms of our interest in this case, do 701 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,100 you think there is an element of that that this is a stranger 702 00:38:55,100 --> 00:38:58,500 abducting strangers? So we're attracted to it, you 703 00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:01,800 get calls every day, you know, those cases, if they want to 704 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,200 trial you certainly wouldn't see risers being put up outside 361 705 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:06,600 University and daily coverage of it. 706 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,900 Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I think the frightening 707 00:39:08,900 --> 00:39:14,300 thing about this case for most people was who the who Paul and 708 00:39:14,300 --> 00:39:18,200 Karla are the blond blue-eyed typical young, you know, health 709 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,500 bar. Barbie and Ken are being can and 710 00:39:20,500 --> 00:39:22,500 that's what shocks people so much and I do. 711 00:39:22,900 --> 00:39:25,700 I do believe sometimes the media really does focus on the 712 00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:28,200 stranger situations. Frankly, if the media were to 713 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,500 report every rape and every case of abuse that goes on, the media 714 00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:34,000 would have no room for anything else in the pages of its 715 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,600 newspaper. So no question. 716 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,200 We don't let me just, I'm sorry. Brazilian, we have a fax. 717 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,000 Just came in saying as a man, I'm ashamed as a father, I'm 718 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,500 outraged now that this part is over it really isn't over and 719 00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:50,800 never will be Many more Paul Bernardo is the route there who 720 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,200 will protect the rest. Canadian law will have to 721 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,000 change. Its the only protection we can 722 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,500 turn to him to all. You had to sit beside this guy 723 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,900 for a long time and I saw you interviewed by bench in last 724 00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:03,800 week or so. And you said it, you know, 725 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,500 really wasn't all that terrible. A lot of people would say, how 726 00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:11,100 could you sit next to a monster and talk to this guy and and 727 00:40:11,100 --> 00:40:13,600 interact with him for two and a half years? 728 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,200 That was my job to get inside this man's head to find out the 729 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,800 facts. To assist both counsel and 730 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,500 originally mr. Murray in putting this case 731 00:40:23,500 --> 00:40:25,400 together. Did you feel like you had to run 732 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,700 home and take a shower every time you spent some time with 733 00:40:27,700 --> 00:40:29,600 this guy? No, no. 734 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,500 It's my responsibility to do that and you do it to the best 735 00:40:32,500 --> 00:40:35,300 of your ability, you have to put it into perspective, you have to 736 00:40:35,300 --> 00:40:39,300 take your own personal feelings and put them aside and do your 737 00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:42,300 job, but you do have personal feelings and obviously they're 738 00:40:42,300 --> 00:40:47,300 there and I'm interested in what some of them are It's the Acts 739 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,100 were horrific and there's no getting around that. 740 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,500 But as a member of the legal Community, I feel I have a 741 00:40:55,500 --> 00:41:00,300 responsibility to ensure that Justice is done appropriately. 742 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,400 And sometimes that means that you can't have your own personal 743 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,900 feelings, you have to just do what you think is best. 744 00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:11,700 And in this case, I tried to do the best I could and maybe in 745 00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:14,200 the future I'm going to have to deal with these personal 746 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,300 feelings that I've had to. Decide post-traumatic stress 747 00:41:17,300 --> 00:41:20,000 sort of thing. I can't necessarily say that it 748 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,200 might be. All right, let's get back to the 749 00:41:24,207 --> 00:41:26,600 phones Richards on the line from Scarborough Richard. 750 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,600 Good evening, yes. Hi, what would you like to say 751 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,300 to me? Yes, my question is for mr. 752 00:41:30,300 --> 00:41:31,700 Rosen. How do you feel about the 753 00:41:31,700 --> 00:41:34,400 verdict of first-degree murder for Paul? 754 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,600 Bernardo, when I from what I've seen in and read it was 755 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,900 basically his word against hers on who did The Killing. 756 00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:45,800 That's right. And quite frankly when It comes 757 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:47,900 to her word, or she told me it was Daylight. 758 00:41:47,900 --> 00:41:50,300 I'd have to go outside and check to see the sun shining. 759 00:41:51,100 --> 00:41:52,800 So I wouldn't believe anything she says. 760 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,100 Now, on the other hand, there was a lot of circumstantial 761 00:41:56,100 --> 00:42:00,600 evidence that a jury could use to make certain inferences and 762 00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:03,100 one never knows how they arrived at their verdict. 763 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,600 I think that part of the problem was the judges charge to the 764 00:42:06,607 --> 00:42:08,100 jury didn't make the law of murder. 765 00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:10,300 Very clear. That's why we're appealing 766 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,800 Michael John Rosen here said earlier on that, he's the 767 00:42:13,808 --> 00:42:16,500 greatest lawyer in Ontario so Something like this, didn't you 768 00:42:16,500 --> 00:42:19,700 say that? You ver know, Ray Houlihan said 769 00:42:19,700 --> 00:42:22,300 it twice and been asked me if I agreed with Rahul. 770 00:42:22,300 --> 00:42:25,000 And I said, I didn't agree very much with that, but and the 771 00:42:25,008 --> 00:42:28,700 checks in the mail, Michael would, you have taken the same? 772 00:42:28,700 --> 00:42:33,300 Tack is John Rosen, did, if you were defending Bernardo, I don't 773 00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:35,500 know. I don't know if I'd have called 774 00:42:35,500 --> 00:42:42,400 him as a witness Well I'm not sure wasn't for the benefit of 775 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:43,900 those at home. John Rosen just said if you 776 00:42:43,908 --> 00:42:45,200 don't call him he's dead in the water. 777 00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:46,600 Why wouldn't you have called him? 778 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,700 I don't think the the defense case was any stronger than after 779 00:42:51,700 --> 00:42:56,400 Miss Homolka was cross-examined and I think it went downhill 780 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,200 with mr. Bernardo because of the way he 781 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:08,300 testified and that's hindsight of course and I'm not sure I 782 00:43:08,300 --> 00:43:09,800 would have done the same way Monday. 783 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,500 Let's get back to the phones. Nancy's on the line for 784 00:43:12,508 --> 00:43:14,100 Mississauga. Good evening, Nancy. 785 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,100 What would you like to say tonight? 786 00:43:16,100 --> 00:43:18,800 My question is directed. Ogden. 787 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,000 I wanted to know how he can sit there and smile, pretty for the 788 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,300 camera, but not only that. How can he go to sleep at night 789 00:43:25,300 --> 00:43:29,600 knowing that he's taking taxpayers money to defend this 790 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,300 criminal? Well Nancy, let me tell you 791 00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:34,300 something. The system is there not for the 792 00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:36,800 Paul bernardo's of the world but it's there to protect people 793 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,600 like you and I and if the system doesn't work for Paul, Bernardo 794 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,300 it won't work for you. If you get charged in a won't 795 00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:46,000 work for me. So, I'm there for you, not for 796 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,400 necessarily for him. You got the feeling that you're 797 00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:51,700 Some of the hate directed at Bernardo that it's that, you 798 00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:54,500 know, it's some of its piling up on your head, it comes with the 799 00:43:54,500 --> 00:43:56,400 territory. I mean, it's been happening for 800 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,900 25 years so it's not unusual. But, you know, I wish people 801 00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:04,300 would stop and think about what they're saying, this particular 802 00:44:04,300 --> 00:44:06,700 case was a Vindication of Canadian Justice. 803 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:11,000 We didn't have the media circus and the shenanigans that have 804 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,000 been going on in l.a. mr. Brian. 805 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,700 And I miss Stewart. Mrs. Doyle all started out. 806 00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:20,600 This case was resolved not to Turn the trial into another o.j. 807 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,700 Simpson trial, and I think everybody should be proud of the 808 00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:27,600 fact that the system worked our talk television special, on the 809 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,400 Bernardo case and Carlos deal will continue after a break. 810 00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:41,500 We're counting your vote, 870 2242. 811 00:44:41,500 --> 00:44:43,600 If you think the crown should have cut a deal with Karla 812 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,100 Homolka, 870 4424 if no, you do not, we'll update the numbers 813 00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:49,900 all night. Blonde give you the final tally 814 00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:54,400 tomorrow night at six, they should be killed for what they 815 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,500 did because they murdered someone they deserve to be 816 00:44:56,500 --> 00:44:58,700 murdered themselves and as Republican are. 817 00:44:58,700 --> 00:45:01,300 Do he deserves worse? He put those girls to hell and 818 00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:04,500 he deserves hell himself. So yeah, capital punishment 819 00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:17,600 should be reinstated in Canada. Coming close to the end of our 820 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,400 program tonight. Only a couple of minutes left. 821 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,300 The last from, for some final thoughts been. 822 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,400 Well, I guess a couple of weeks ago, one of the other newspaper 823 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:26,700 columnist, not Christie said that. 824 00:45:26,700 --> 00:45:29,300 There are no winners in this trial, and I, it was in a 825 00:45:29,308 --> 00:45:31,500 different context, but I have to strongly disagree with the 826 00:45:31,500 --> 00:45:33,700 thought tonight. I think Society was a great 827 00:45:33,700 --> 00:45:35,500 winner in this. It was a horrible, horrible 828 00:45:35,500 --> 00:45:38,400 trial, but somehow the system was able to manage it. 829 00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:41,100 The judge was able to manage it. The defense lawyers were able to 830 00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:44,300 the crown were able to the media were able to, the public is good 831 00:45:44,300 --> 00:45:46,800 and angry about Carla's deal and that's A good thing because we 832 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,600 keep that's the way we keep bureaucrats accountable to us 833 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,000 and politicians accountable to us. 834 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,500 But the whole thing did work on a personal level for all that 835 00:45:55,500 --> 00:45:58,800 winning that I've talked about, you walk away from this and you 836 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,400 are scarred and you cannot forget the victims. 837 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,500 That's that's the one thing. When I first started, this 838 00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:06,600 trial, I thought that I would be struck by the horror forever. 839 00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:09,100 The horror Slips Away. The shock Slips Away. 840 00:46:09,100 --> 00:46:11,800 I think the victims families will remain this given John 841 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,000 know, you'll have to carry this one around for the rest of your 842 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,200 life. Obviously you feel. 843 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,600 You did the best job? You could, but if ending a guy 844 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,800 like this must I don't know. Must make your skin crawl at 845 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,400 some point. No actually being able to defend 846 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,200 and put on a defense of viable defense, front of a jury 847 00:46:28,500 --> 00:46:31,400 actually makes me feel good because it means that I did my 848 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,200 duty jury disagreed with our position. 849 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,700 But at least as I said before the system worked and it means I 850 00:46:37,700 --> 00:46:40,500 can defend the next person with the same Vigor in the same 851 00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:43,300 confidence, in the system, Priscilla, our thoughts and 852 00:46:43,300 --> 00:46:45,700 hearts must be with the victims and their families tonight. 853 00:46:45,900 --> 00:46:49,500 And he has, certainly they have now got to pick up the pieces 854 00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:52,300 and try to move on. But I think the one listen, this 855 00:46:52,300 --> 00:46:56,700 come out of this is that we must never forget any of the victims 856 00:46:57,300 --> 00:46:59,300 of any of these horrendous trials. 857 00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:01,700 And I think ought to it's all too easy. 858 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,100 And hopefully, if one good thing is to come out of that, it said 859 00:47:06,100 --> 00:47:08,800 we were understand the horror and the pain that is perpetrated 860 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,900 on innocent people. Thank you Priscilla. 861 00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:13,100 And thank each and every one of you for being here tonight, we 862 00:47:13,100 --> 00:47:14,900 sincerely. Appreciate your thoughts and 863 00:47:14,900 --> 00:47:17,700 your insights into the Case and we pretty well, run out of time. 864 00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:20,200 We'll have the final results of our phone poll question. 865 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,300 Should the crown of cut a deal with Karla Homolka on City pulse 866 00:47:23,300 --> 00:47:25,700 at 6:00 tomorrow evening? And for more news, watch for 867 00:47:25,700 --> 00:47:28,800 March daily later tonight at 11:00 and behalf of everyone 868 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,500 here. Thanks for tuning in and good 869 00:47:30,500 --> 00:47:31,600 night from City pulse.