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In this section, it's deeply 
personal. 

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I'll be talking about my 
experiences, my opinions, and my

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perspective. 
Where I'm coming from on this 

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issue, for lack of a better 
term, I'm going to call it the 

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psychology of drugs, addiction 
and environment. 

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So first of all, drugs provide 
an an escapism. 

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That escapism itself is 
addicting. 

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Speaking for myself, take 
alcohol for example, my 

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background in corporate sales, I
would go to a lot of corporate 

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events and there was always like
free flowing booze at these 

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events, you know, you have a few
drinks, helps you mingle, helps 

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you feel not as shy, get to 
approach people, talk, laugh and

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and also too you know, the 
stress of the work. 

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A few drinks, you know, kind of 
helps you wash the day away, 

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makes you more approachable and 
makes the person you're trying 

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to talk to a little more 
approachable. 

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When I was younger, going to 
nightclubs and working at 

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nightclubs, I was, I was always 
kind of a little bit of a shy 

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person. 
My childhood, I spent a lot of 

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time in isolation. 
My older brother was seven years

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older than me and I'd spent a 
lot of time by myself. 

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I had friends. 
I would go to summer camp, Boy 

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Scouts, camping, outdoor clubs. 
I was good in groups. 

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I played sports. 
But I also, On the contrary of 

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that also I, I spent a lot of 
time by myself and sometimes I 

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can feel shy, I can feel 
socially awkward. 

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So in my 20s, going to the bar, 
having a, a few drinks, it's 

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always easier, you know, to talk
to the pretty girls. 

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I was never one that enjoyed 
drinking by myself. 

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For me, alcohol was a social 
thing and and as time went on, 

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alcohol became more of a stress 
reliever. 

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Working long hours, you know, 
depending on the circumstances, 

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you know, sometimes in center of
my jobs there was a lot of 

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pressure and, you know, 
quarterly reports I had to do. 

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I put in really long hours, like
sometimes 90 hours a week, you 

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know, getting up at 6, coming 
home at six, having dinner and 

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then sometimes working on my 
computer till 11:00 later at 

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night, you know, to get those 
reports in. 

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And then when it was all over, 
you know, you go have a few 

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drinks to decompress. 
And then I also worked in a lot 

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of startups. 
Startups environments are highly

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emotional. 
There's lots of highs, there's 

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lots of lows and, and when you 
reach those highs and those 

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little successes or big 
successes, what did you do? 

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You go out and celebrate with 
drinks. 

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And then when you'd hit those 
lows, you'd lick your rooms with

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alcohol. 
So this became a pattern for me.

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I became what is known as a 
binge drinker. 

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I didn't drink daily, didn't 
drink all the time, but when I 

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did it was either for jubilant 
celebrations, overdulging to 

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celebrate or to soothe my 
emotional wounds and or a 

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failure like a bad sales loss or
a major set. 

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Back in 2020, my ex-girlfriend 
Chantelle died tragically. 2020 

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was a very tragic year for me. 
I lost my wife and I lost a dear

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friend, Chantel. 
She was my girlfriend for about 

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two years and she had a very big
personality, larger than life. 

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She loved her BMWs. 
She had probably the largest 

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high heel collection I've ever 
seen in my life. 

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Probably worth a fortune and she
was a little bit gangster too 

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with all her gold jewellery that
she wore. 

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Being with her was fun. 
It was distracting. 

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She loved going to clubs, she 
was always on VIP list, she 

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always had invitation to parties
and nightclubs and she knew a 

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lot of people. 
She would take me to Jamaican 

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after hours at 3:00 or 4:00 in 
the morning. 

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She was very distracting. 
Sorry to say that again, she was

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very distracting and and a 
distraction for the type of life

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that I lived, you know, like the
Monday to Friday corporate nine 

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to five and being in a 
relationship with her was very 

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addicting. 
But the problem was is that she 

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fuelled her fast pace lifestyle 
with her cocaine addiction and 

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when she was on cocaine she was 
a lot of fun. 

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But when she came off, when she 
was withdrawing from cocaine, 

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she was very volatile. 
She was led. 

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She was literally the devil when
she came off or coming down from

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cocaine. 
She would get very volatile, 

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highly abusive. 
And this was a pendulum. 

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This was a pendulum and you can 
see and then and then when I 

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look back at my life, there is 
this pattern, this pendulum of 

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highs and lows that kept 
reoccurring in my life. 

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Unfortunately, like I said, in 
2020 November, I guess she used 

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some cocaine that was laced with
fentanyl and she passed away. 

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So drugs have had a very major 
impact in my life. 

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I've seen their destruction. 
And with that, I understand how 

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enticing and addicting they are.
And let me and what I'm talking 

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about, what I'm talking about, 
I'm not talking the addicted 

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nature of the drugs themselves, 
but I'm talking about how using 

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drugs themselves is addicting 
because they can help you, they 

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can help facilitate, 
they can help you escape and 

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they can the miserable 
existence. 

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In my case, let's say that one 
more time, I understand how 

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enticing they are. 
And I'm not talking about the 

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actual physical addicting 
nature. 

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I'm talking more of the 
psychological addicting nature 

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of the drugs. 
Like in my case, they helped me 

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escape out of a of a very 
miserable existence. 

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In my case, I worked a lot of 
jobs that were that were had a 

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lot of pressure. 
There were very pressure 

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environments. 
I had large sales quotas. 

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I had responsibilities and some 
of these jobs too, I was 

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responsible for other people and
how other people perform was on 

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me because I was in management 
and leadership roles. 

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And it can be very stressful 
when you're leading A-Team and 

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you're responsible for how they 
were perform. 

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And I have the kind of 
personality that I take 

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responsibility and I and I feel 
responsible for other people 

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whom I'm leading the the people.
And lot of these situations 

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reported to I felt were a little
bit dysfunctional and 

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disconnected of what was going 
on on the ground. 

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And that caused a lot of 
friction. 

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So make a Long story short, 
Friday would come and the 

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girlfriend would come and get me
and we'd go party Hardy, go for 

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dinners and drinks to some fancy
steakhouse she would call one of

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her friends that would deliver 
some party favors. 

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Off to the nightclub, then two 
and after hours sometimes back 

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in and back to her place. 
We went sleep to the next day. 

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Sunday's was was spent 
completely recovering. 

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Monday pull myself back 
together. 

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Repeat this pattern. 
I found it very destructive and 

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what I found for me, especially 
for a person that's always been 

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pretty health conscious and 
detoxing every week took a toll 

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on me. 
And when I was drinking and 

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doing the drugs I felt great is 
when I was detoxing. 

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The mentally, just how low I 
felt emotionally, I felt more 

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reactionary. 
I felt like I had more of a 

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temper. 
I would snap at people, I would 

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be less patient with people, I 
would react more dramatically to

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stressful situations. 
People I'd work with would take 

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notice of this. 
Sometimes they just think that 

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the pressure of the job was 
getting to me, and it did impact

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my work. 
I realized I had a cutter out of

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my life because it was affecting
my bottom line. 

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My ability to perform. 
Cocaine is very powerful. 

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I understand why people are 
drawn to it. 

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When you're on it, you feel like
Superman or Superwoman. 

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You feel yourself esteem is 
high. 

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You feel like in my case, you 
know, I would combine it with 

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drinking. 
I could drink 10 times more 

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because it would counter the 
effects of alcohol. 

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You wouldn't be slurring or 
staggering. 

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And literally, like I said, you 
could drink twice as much when 

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using this stuff. 
I checked myself into a detox 

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center. 
I did a 30 day detox and got 

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counseling and got some new life
skills and how to manage my 

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life. 
I was extremely grateful for 

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that help. 
Extremely grateful that it was 

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available to me. 
It changed my life and and like 

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I said, I had a cutter out of my
life. 

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Later on we became friends and 
she was getting her life back 

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together. 
She went back to school. 

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She, Chantelle, was working 
towards becoming a social 

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worker. 
But once in a while, for old 

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times sake, she would dabble and
she could, you know, 

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occasionally and she can never 
really quit it. 

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I've seen that a lot with other 
friends. 

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They can manage their lives to 
some degree. 

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They can still hold down a job, 
you know, still take care of the

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responsibility, but once in a 
while, they would still dabble 

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in it. 
And that's what's dangerous now 

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because in this situation, a lot
of the drugs have become more 

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and more toxic, cut with 
fentanyl. 

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And that's exactly what happened
to her on November 2020. 

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She passed away because she got 
a bad batch with fentanyl. 

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So I take the topic of drug 
addiction very seriously because

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I've lost a lot of friends in my
life that I was extremely close 

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to, that I cared about. 
And I've seen the devastating 

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destruction that it does to 
their families and to their 

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loved ones. 
Not only does it hurt them, but 

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it hurts everyone around them. 
When you care or love someone 

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and you see them deteriorate, 
it's extremely heartbreaking. 

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Or they become a person or they 
become someone that they're 

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normally not. 
They become vicious and angry 

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and destruction and dishonest. 
These drugs change you. 

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They change who you are as a 
person. 

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And for me, when I was using 
them, like I said, I was fine. 

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When I was using them, it was 
when I was off them, like those 

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Mondays I'd come back to work 
and I was so miserable. 

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I remember feeling sometimes 
every time I took a deep breath,

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it literally felt like the skin 
on my body was tearing. 

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And I remember like, and I think
also too, there's a little bit 

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of this emotional pain. 
You feel shame, you feel 

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embarrassment, you feel the 
sense of self loathing and this 

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makes you more angry. 
And then sometimes in situations

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when someone angered me, I could
be quite vicious. 

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My temper would get pretty, you 
know, ferocious. 

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They made me feel very 
emotionally unregulated when I 

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was off them, when I was coming 
off them, you know, even up to a

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few days later. 
So when I was going through my 

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detox program and decided to 
really examine me and my whole 

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foundation, you know, I had a 
pretty good 20s. 

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My 20s was pretty good. 
You know, for the most part, my 

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childhood was good. 
My teens was a bit rough. 

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My mom got pretty dysfunctional 
when I was a teenager and I left

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home at a very young age. 
I left home at 17. 

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And even when I was in grade 12,
I was paying my own rent, 

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working construction on the 
weekends. 

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Of course, Vancouver was a 
different city and I lived with 

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my friend Kevin, who passed away
also from a drug overdose. 

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He was my workout gym partner. 
We worked out at a gym called 

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Olympic Fitness and Kitsilino. 
That's no, that's long gone. 

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We lived and breathed 
bodybuilding. 

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We thought we were going to 
become the next Mr. Olympia. 

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Our rent was a whopping $300.00 
each and you know, it was a good

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time to. 
It was a fun time in my 30s, you

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know, this was a time for self 
reflection. 

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This was a time of self 
reflection. 

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So when I was at the the detox 
clinic, I also took a spiritual 

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look at my life. 
I was raised as a Christian as a

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kid, and so I decided to explore
other religions like Buddhism, 

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Mythsism, Gnoscism. 
And there's a a gnostic belief 

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system that we create our own 
heavens and Hells on earth in 

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the realm of the existence that 
we are, and we choose our own 

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heavens and own hell. 
And this resonated with me. 

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And like I said, long week, I'd 
get a big paycheck, my 

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girlfriend would come Chantelle 
and pick me up in her brand new 

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BMW, off to a fancy restaurant, 
then to a fancy cocktail part, 

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meet up with her gorgeous 
girlfriends. 

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She always had a big group of 
girlfriends. 

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You know, you felt pretty cool 
as a dude. 

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You know, hanging out with all 
these 10s, all these hotties, 

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you get a lot of attention. 
You get some party favors and 

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and this was the appearance and 
the feeling of heaven. 

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I felt like I was in paradise, 
wasn't thinking about deadlines,

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sales, quarterly reports, the 
pressures, how people under me 

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00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:23,760
were performing. 
And then two days after when 

226
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:29,640
you're coming down from the 
party, I literally felt like I 

227
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:30,920
was in hell. 
Pure hell. 

228
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,920
Haven't slept for two days. 
My brain literally hurts, my 

229
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,160
stomach hurts. 
I can't handle daylight, 

230
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,200
pounding headache, feeling of 
self loathing. 

231
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:46,840
This was hell for me, and I knew
a lot of people who would do the

232
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,040
same thing as me. 
And how would they counter it? 

233
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,200
Well, they just start drinking 
in the morning. 

234
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:52,680
They do drugs throughout the 
week. 

235
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,600
I knew a lot of people and this 
was the pattern. 

236
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,320
I've seen this, I've seen this. 
God, I've seen this like 100 

237
00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:58,880
times. 
They would fit this pattern. 

238
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,680
They'd go out for a few drinks 
with their friends. 

239
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,880
One of their buddies would have 
a gram of coke. 

240
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,120
They'd have a few lines. 
Pretty fun stuff, right? 

241
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:12,480
Next day, you know, sorry, next 
time they went out with their 

242
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,320
friends, they'd say their their 
buddy would say, hey, do you 

243
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,880
want to buy a gram right now? 
They bought their own gram. 

244
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,280
They would do it all night. 
Next time they'd go see their 

245
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,880
buddy. 
Next time they go see their 

246
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,240
buddy, they'd ask their buddy to
hey, I want to buy an 8 ball. 

247
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,480
That 8 ball would last all 
weekend, right? 

248
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,080
Then they're buying an ounce, 
right? 

249
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,720
That weekend bleeds into Monday,
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, 

250
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,520
Friday. 
Now they're using every day. 

251
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,440
I don't care who you are, that's
hell when you have to use this 

252
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,080
stuff each and every day, when 
you need that to regulate, when 

253
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,920
you need it to feel good. 
Because like I said, the come 

254
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,280
down, it's the come down. 
That's the motherfucker. 

255
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,120
And then then this is the worst 
case scenario and I've seen this

256
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:17,320
a lot. 
So now they're using everyday, 

257
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,520
they're burning bridges. 
They owe people money right now.

258
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,840
If there are women, lot of cases
they start decided doing sex 

259
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,000
work. 
And if they're a dude, maybe 

260
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,680
they have to start thinking 
creative ways of getting money. 

261
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,000
I've known people like started 
committing frauds at their work,

262
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,160
stealing money. 
A quick story. 

263
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,960
There was a guy in my high 
school and he was like the on 

264
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,880
the All Star basketball team. 
So I went to two high schools. 

265
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,800
I went to my first high school 
was Templeton in East Vancouver.

266
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:54,040
And then I went to a school on 
the West side of Vancouver in 

267
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,640
Kitsilino. 
And their big claim to fame is 

268
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:03,480
that they had the best 
basketball team in the city and 

269
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,760
this kid was one of the star 
basketball players. 

270
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,800
And it's a big deal, like they 
in kits align on the basketball 

271
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,400
team is a big deal. 
They have annual what's called 

272
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,960
the Blue Demon Classic. 
That's the name of the sports 

273
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,120
teams and kits. 
I was played on the Blue Demons 

274
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:20,920
for the rugby team and they have
a Blue Demons for the basketball

275
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,200
team. 
So they have a Blue Demon 

276
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,960
Classic. 
So this kid when I went to high 

277
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:28,360
school was like the star player 
of that team, good looking guy, 

278
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:32,680
highly charisma and had the 
whole world ahead of them. 

279
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,360
Probably could have gotten a 
basketball scholarship if he 

280
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:44,560
pushed himself. 
He started dating a girl and her

281
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:55,960
dad owned a automotive business.
His dad loved basketball and had

282
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,160
all girls. 
Didn't have a son and literally 

283
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,280
almost adopted this kid as his 
son. 

284
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,640
So this was like literally going
to be his father-in-law hired 

285
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:14,840
him for his business and what 
everyone didn't know that this 

286
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,320
kid had a secret drug addiction.
He was a coke addict. 

287
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,160
He started stealing money out of
the till and then by the time 

288
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,160
that he was caught, he stole 
over something like 100K out of 

289
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,000
this business for his coke 
addiction. 

290
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,440
This is the nature of addiction.
Now tell me that's not that's 

291
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,640
not creating your own hell. 
And it gets worse than that, 

292
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:40,840
right? 
It gets worse than that. 

293
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,240
You can you can get on the wrong
side of one of these dudes that 

294
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,920
sell drugs and they might be 
affiliated with somebody. 

295
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,640
And now you owe really scary 
people money. 

296
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,200
And that's scary. 
I've seen that. 

297
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,680
I've seen people who owed money 
and scary, scary, scary. 

298
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:05,920
My brother had a friend whom was
nicknamed Hitler because his 

299
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,600
temper was so crazy. 
He did not want to make this guy

300
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:19,840
mad and he was a massive dealer 
and this dude owed him a lot of 

301
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:26,280
money. 
And one day they came and picked

302
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:27,760
this guy up at the front of his 
house. 

303
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,680
He was leaving, leaving his 
house and the scary dude says 

304
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,360
hey get in the car right? 
They took him back to his house 

305
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:47,000
and scary guy Hitler put a 
shotgun in his face while the 

306
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,880
other guys beat him to the inch 
of his life. 

307
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,280
This, this, and now tell me 
that's not a now another next 

308
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,360
level of hell owing people that 
will literally kill you if you 

309
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:05,720
don't pay them because you are 
addicted to this drug. 

310
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,320
And then there's, you know, the 
legal system getting in the 

311
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,760
wrong side of the legal system. 
Maybe you decide that you're 

312
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,120
going to start dealing. 
I've seen this scenario. 

313
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:22,200
You have a habit and now you 
have to start dealing to support

314
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,600
your habit. 
But you're getting high on your 

315
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,160
own supply, right? 
That's the next level of hell. 

316
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,160
You're totally immersed in this 
world. 

317
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,800
And then there's the actual 
health complications, heart 

318
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,480
attacks, psychotic breaks, 
paranoia. 

319
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:45,040
My friend Kevin, when he was 
high as a kite, he would do coke

320
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:51,600
for 2-3 days and he started to 
get knee problems because he 

321
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,480
thought people were coming after
him. 

322
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:57,440
And he had one of those, like, 
mail slots in his front door. 

323
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:03,720
We put this mail right through 
the door, and he would kneel 

324
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:08,200
looking through his mail slot, 
holding a handgun, thinking 

325
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,560
people were coming after him. 
So the paranoid delusions, the 

326
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,920
psychosis, the mental health 
effects, right? 

327
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:22,200
Is something you know that will 
draw you into the deep levels of

328
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:38,400
hell. 
See, this is the thing, right? 

329
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:44,600
We live. 
You know, like I, like I said, 

330
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,520
I've had a lot of friends that 
went down this road. 

331
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,520
The elusive, the addicting, the 
addicting nature of these drugs 

332
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,680
are powerful, absolutely 
powerful. 

333
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:05,160
My drug of choice generally is 
more MDMMA and same thing. 

334
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,440
Oh, you feel great when you're 
on it. 

335
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:12,960
This, you know, party all night,
dancing at the club, you know, 

336
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:18,560
and then my case, I'm hanging 
out with like 10 gorgeous women 

337
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,880
high on east, you know, pure 
heaven. 

338
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:28,160
But man, it took me like 2 days 
to feel normal after two days of

339
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:34,560
hell coming off at getting ready
back to work for Monday and you 

340
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,480
know feeling completely Monday 
was always a write off. 

341
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,760
I like I it was like a 
completely white knuckle making 

342
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,960
it through Monday. 
Tuesday started to feel normal. 

343
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,280
Wednesday back to normal 
Thursday. 

344
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,600
Can't wait for the weekend on 
Friday. 

345
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:57,920
Right. 
The pattern, See, it's strange 

346
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,520
to me too, because we live in a 
society, you know, for my 

347
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,720
American listeners and people 
who might be listening in other 

348
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,960
areas around the world, is that 
Canada, especially BC, it's a, 

349
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,560
it's a very highly regulated 
place. 

350
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,320
It's a, it's a, it's a city. 
It's a, it's an environment 

351
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,160
that's very micromanaging. 
So for example, I go buy 

352
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,520
cigarettes, you know, I don't, I
don't smoke. 

353
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,240
But if you do buy cigarettes, 
right, they can't even show you 

354
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,360
the cigarettes in the store. 
You have to ask for them by 

355
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:31,520
name. 
And the cigarette packs are 

356
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,200
completely covered. 
And then they have these 

357
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,600
horrible, like cancer pictures 
of cancer and tumors. 

358
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,160
And you know, these grotesque, 
you know, pictures, right? 

359
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,440
But then in the same 
environment, you know, they, 

360
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,400
they essentially legalize drugs.
You can legally own crack 

361
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:55,440
cocaine, heroin, meth, fentanyl.
Yeah. 

362
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,120
It's a strange time to be alive,
right? 

363
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:01,200
So it's really bizarre. 
So, you know, we went through 

364
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,240
the pandemic and we had all 
these lockdowns and at the show,

365
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,280
vaccination, This was all to 
keep us safe, right? 

366
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,480
But then on the same time, it's 
like, oh, if you want drugs, you

367
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,120
want crack, you want this, you 
want that, and that's to keep us

368
00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:16,200
safe. 
So yeah, it's a strange time to 

369
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,840
be alive, right? 
But. 

370
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:36,720
And this is where I'm, I'm 
coming to, right drugs has been 

371
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,760
in this environment, Vancouver, 
Metro Vancouver, part of its 

372
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,600
subculture really for 100 years.
I've been doing a really deep 

373
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:50,120
dive into the circumstance of 
Robert Picton, but I'm also 

374
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,040
exploring the environment that 
created him. 

375
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:59,520
And Robert Picton's primary 
victims were women who were 

376
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,840
heavily addicted to drugs in the
most living in the most hellish 

377
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:10,880
landscape of the Downtown East 
Side, addicted to these very 

378
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:18,480
powerful drugs to cope, to feel 
not like they're in hell and 

379
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:24,880
willingly getting a ride in a in
a truck by a man who smells like

380
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,280
pig shit and off to a farm and 
never to be seen again. 

381
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,800
Drugs have been part of the 
subculture in Vancouver since 

382
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,280
for 100 years. 
And for the last 30 years 

383
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:47,520
they've become part of the the 
landscape where people are doing

384
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,440
drugs now out in the open in the
public, where before that mostly

385
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,400
people did drugs and doors and 
it was behind closed doors. 

386
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,000
But since the 90s in the 
Downtown Eastside, it's always 

387
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,680
been as a place where people 
used in public places and 

388
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:09,120
openly, right. 
So it's been part of this part 

389
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,920
of this our world for a long 
time. 

390
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,440
And, and I've been doing a lot 
of thinking about it, right? 

391
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,160
Because again, you know, I've 
talked to you just now for the 

392
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:23,320
reasons why I did them. 
You know, my, my reasoning, my 

393
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:31,760
rationale for doing them. 
Mine was escapism and wanting to

394
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,680
be. 
They allowed me to turn that 

395
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,400
switch off in my head. 
I'm always been a chronic 

396
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:45,120
overthinker and Friday would 
come, like I said, you know, the

397
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:50,880
girly friend would come pick me 
up in her fancy BMW and off with

398
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:56,080
the gorgeous friends and party. 
Party for me for that moment, 

399
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,720
for those few hours or evening 
that was paradise. 

400
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,920
It was a complete escape from my
life of the other five days of 

401
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:13,400
the week. 
So this is what I, I really 

402
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,280
truly think is that the nature 
of this, right? 

403
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,880
I'm, again, I'm not talking 
about the physical addiction, 

404
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:26,080
I'm talking about more of the 
psychological addicting nature 

405
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,960
of the drugs in general. 
Is Vancouver for as long as I 

406
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:35,760
can remember, right? 
And in my research, it's always 

407
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,640
been a boom and bust city. 
There's always been haves and 

408
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,400
have not. 
And Vancouver is also a very 

409
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,680
isolated city in North America. 
If you look at it on the map, 

410
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:50,520
it's the most western city, 
large city in Canada. 

411
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,000
You know, we have Victoria and 
Vancouver on Vancouver Island, 

412
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,920
but you know, Vancouver's a much
bigger city than that, right? 

413
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,200
And it's one of the most 
isolated cities in comparison to

414
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,320
other places. 
Like if you look at other and on

415
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,400
the map, there's big cities and 
there's clusters of big cities 

416
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,600
around them. 
So it's a pretty isolated place 

417
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,920
and there's always been a 
struggle to live here. 

418
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,360
Now, if you if you're the haves,
there's always been haves and 

419
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,280
haves not. 
So then it comes down to like 

420
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,280
the elites who have, you know, 
they live in the fancy areas, 

421
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,640
they have ties to government. 
They have, you know, they have 

422
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,000
right. 
They have the connections, they 

423
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,680
have the money, they have the 
status. 

424
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,040
And then there's a have nots. 
The working class has always 

425
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,800
been a big working class here 
and it and it's not, it's not a 

426
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,240
fun city to grind in because 
it's a city that's always been 

427
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,960
more expensive than average. 
It's it's hellishly expensive 

428
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,200
now, but even in the in the best
of times, rents were always a 

429
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,120
bit higher than the rest of the 
country. 

430
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,120
Taxes are high in BC and things 
are, you know, slightly always 

431
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,160
been more expensive in general 
compared to the rest of the 

432
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,640
country, right? 
So you have to work hard to have

433
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,520
the things then you do in other 
places, right? 

434
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,240
Like for example, currently if 
you take Washington State and 

435
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:15,240
you take BC, houses in 
Washington state are are on 

436
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,200
average the quarter of the price
for an average house in BC. 

437
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:25,200
Yet wages tend to be higher in 
Washington state, right? 

438
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:31,120
So the people that the have nots
have to work twice as hard to 

439
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,520
have what other people have, 
right? 

440
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,840
And then we get to the nature of
status. 

441
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,120
So let's break it down more 
simply, right? 

442
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,120
High status and low status, 
right? 

443
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:52,520
When I on the Friday, you know, 
when I'd have my big paycheck 

444
00:32:53,640 --> 00:33:00,040
and meet the girly friend, you 
know, jump in the fancy car and 

445
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,280
go hang out with her gorgeous 
friends, I felt pretty high 

446
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,240
status. 
I'll tell you a quick story. 

447
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,120
There was one time I remember 
where, you know, I had a major 

448
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,280
set back at work, something I 
was working on for a very long 

449
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,320
time. 
This completely fell apart. 

450
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,200
It was a big deal I was working 
on and it just completely 

451
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,080
crashed. 
I just took the wind out of my 

452
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,560
sails, right? 
It was a, it was a real low. 

453
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,800
It was a real low moment, like 
completely devastated. 

454
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,840
And after I got off work, I was 
literally walking around in a 

455
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,880
daze like a zombie. 
I just felt like, oh, my God, 

456
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,040
like, you know, end of the 
world, right? 

457
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:42,960
She calls me up. 
Hey, what are you doing? 

458
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,600
I'm like, I don't know. 
I'm just, you know, walking 

459
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:48,960
around. 
Had a bad day. 

460
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,240
Oh, forget about that, She said.
I'm at the Roxy. 

461
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,680
I'm on. 
I had this. 

462
00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:00,840
Go there to the door. 
I have club courtesy with a big 

463
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,560
group of friends Come right now.
So I was like literally, I was 

464
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,120
only about like a few blocks 
away. 

465
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,360
Walk over the Roxy, there she 
is. 

466
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,600
They're big group of 
girlfriends. 

467
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:16,800
They all hug me. 
They're all happy to see me. 

468
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:26,560
Few drinks later, I'm in back in
heaven, right? 

469
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,000
High status. 
I felt high status, felt low 

470
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,480
status few moments ago, now I'm 
high status, right? 

471
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,480
And then think about this too, 
right? 

472
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,480
So what drugs, drugs are, are 
powerful in another way because 

473
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:49,440
selling them you can make a lot 
of money, right? 

474
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,960
You become a coke dealer, which 
is, you know, pretty, you can be

475
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,120
pretty, it's a pretty profitable
drug to sell. 

476
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,480
And now you can be high status. 
You can buy those fancy cars, 

477
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,640
those fancy brand name outfits 
and now you're high status. 

478
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:12,200
So an environment like Vancouver
that's hard to get ahead than 

479
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,000
other places. 
Now, you know, you're driving 

480
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:21,560
around in $100,000 car, right? 
You're wearing $1000 shoes, you 

481
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,640
know, $400.00 jeans, gold 
chains, right? 

482
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,160
You're going to, people are 
going to take notice that 

483
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,000
they're going to think, whoa, 
he, he has some money, right? 

484
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:32,960
And they associate that with 
being high status, right? 

485
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,360
Maybe in my case would be fancy 
suits, you know what I mean? 

486
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,240
And and that is addictive. 
It's very addicting. 

487
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:51,280
No one wants to be low status. 
And then but then on the other 

488
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:56,200
side of it, like the the pattern
of pendulum swings, chasing 

489
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,080
these high status, getting 
addicted, and now you're in the 

490
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,000
lowest of the low. 
You're you're addicted. 

491
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,840
You burned all your bridges. 
You get kicked out of wherever 

492
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,280
you live because you're not 
paying your rent because you're 

493
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,320
addicted. 
You're on the street, your 

494
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,080
clothes isn't tattered, and 
you're all you. 

495
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,520
Every waking moment you're 
feeding that addiction. 

496
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,480
Now. 
You're in the lowest of the 

497
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,360
lows. 
You're in hell. 

498
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,640
And then think about what we 
call it. 

499
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,600
Think of the words we use. 
I always pay attention how words

500
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,960
are used, right? 
When someone does drugs, what 

501
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,400
are they doing? 
They're getting high, feeling 

502
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:42,400
high, right? 
That is the heart of it and that

503
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,280
is the corrupting nature of 
drugs. 

504
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:49,560
For that brief moment, including
in my case, I felt high, you 

505
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,760
know, hanging out the clubs with
with Chantelle, you know, with 

506
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:59,360
the beautiful ladies, you know, 
that in itself was a high for me

507
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,960
even before I did the drugs. 
So you add some MDMA in that or 

508
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:10,880
some coke and you know, 4 or 5 
cranberry martinis, I felt 

509
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,800
pretty high status except for 
the next day. 

510
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:22,720
So this is an important subject 
and and, and I understand why 

511
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:29,880
they trap people and why what 
you're searching for, for these 

512
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:35,240
high moments for these can lead 
you to the ultimate hell. 

513
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:50,160
Thank you for listening. 
Welcome back everybody to the 

514
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,840
Deep Dive. 
Always a pleasure. 

515
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,840
Today we're going to be diving 
into the world of drugs in 

516
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,520
Canada, specifically from 1980 
to 2001. 

517
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,960
Yeah, really fascinating period.
Lots going on. 

518
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,640
We're going to be pulling from a
couple of sources. 

519
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,640
The 1st is a collection of RCMP 
intelligence reports. 

520
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:10,920
Oh cool. 
Yeah. 

521
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,440
And so this is kind of like, you
know, right from the horse's 

522
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,960
mouth. 
Well, maybe not the horse's 

523
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,120
mouth, but, you know, from the 
perspective of law enforcement, 

524
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,080
what they're seeing on the 
ground during this time. 

525
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,760
We're also going to be pulling 
from some personal accounts, so 

526
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,440
kind of getting both sides of 
the story. 

527
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,280
The lived experience. 
Yeah, exactly. 

528
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,280
Fascinating. 
And just to give you a little 

529
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:32,920
taste of what we're going to be 
talking about, we're going to be

530
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,440
diving into heroin, cocaine, 
cannabis, you know, all the all 

531
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,320
the hits. 
We'll also be talking about the 

532
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,240
emergence of chemical drugs like
meth and ecstasy. 

533
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,400
So a lot to cover. 
Should be a really interesting 

534
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,040
deep dive. 
One thing that really jumped out

535
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,720
at me, it's right off the bat, 
was that Canada wasn't just a 

536
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:55,920
consumer of drugs during this 
period. 

537
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,520
They were actually a key player 
in the global drug trade, 

538
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,760
serving as like a transshipment 
point for drugs headed to the 

539
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:04,000
US. 
Whoa. 

540
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,520
OK. 
There's even this account of 

541
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,480
Canadian marijuana being traded 
for cocaine, almost pound for 

542
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,280
pound. 
Whoa, that's wild. 

543
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,560
So I think that really speaks to
kind of the complexity of of 

544
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,200
this whole issue. 
And yeah, yeah, I'm just, I'm 

545
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,800
really excited to dive in. 
Well, this is fascinating 

546
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,480
already. 
And, you know, you touched on 

547
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,480
something really important, 
which is just how tricky it can 

548
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,120
be to even measure something 
like the drug trade. 

549
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,480
You know, we're talking about 
something that's deliberately 

550
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,520
hidden, constantly changing, 
influenced by countless factors.

551
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,160
Yeah, this huge challenge. 
How do you even begin to wrap 

552
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:37,400
your head around something like 
that? 

553
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,160
Well, the RCMP reports mainly 
relied on what they called a 

554
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,520
supply based approach. 
They were looking at seizures, 

555
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,800
arrests, production estimates. 
So basically trying to measure 

556
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,000
the size of the iceberg by just 
looking at the tip. 

557
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,080
Exactly. 
It gives you some insights, but 

558
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:53,520
it's definitely not the whole 
picture. 

559
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,360
Right, you're missing a huge 
chunk of the story. 

560
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,800
So what's the alternative? 
How do you get a more complete 

561
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,880
understanding? 
Well, a consumption based 

562
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,840
approach would look at the 
demand side, the the actual drug

563
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,560
user population, their habits, 
their preferences. 

564
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,920
So it's not just about how much 
is out there, but who's using it

565
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:15,040
and why. 
Precisely. 

566
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,720
It's about understanding the 
human element behind those 

567
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:19,440
statistics. 
That makes a lot of sense. 

568
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,360
So the RCMP was trying to piece 
together this puzzle of Canada's

569
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,880
drug scene with limited 
information. 

570
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,840
Yeah, and the reports themselves
acknowledge that you have to be 

571
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,200
really careful when you're 
interpreting this data. 

572
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,080
Enforcement priorities change. 
Clandestine operations are, by 

573
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:37,960
their very nature, hard to 
track. 

574
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,640
Right, it's all happening under 
the radar. 

575
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,280
And then you've got organized 
crime, which is always finding 

576
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,240
ways to stay one step ahead of 
the game. 

577
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:46,840
So it's like trying to hit a 
moving target in the dark. 

578
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,440
Pretty much, But with all those 
limitations in mind, let's dive 

579
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,800
into some specific drugs. 
What do you say we start with 

580
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,400
heroin? 
Sounds good to me. 

581
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,800
Let's do it. 
What was going on with heroin 

582
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:58,960
during these two decades? 
Well. 

583
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,680
The RCMP data shows some pretty 
wild swings in availability. 

584
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,440
It's almost like a roller 
coaster, a roller. 

585
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,720
Coaster Really. 
OK, tell me more. 

586
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,000
So the late 1970s actually saw a
heroin drought in Canada? 

587
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:12,920
A drought? 
Wow. 

588
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,960
So what caused that? 
It was linked to disruptions in 

589
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,000
Southeast Asia, which was the 
main source of heroin at that 

590
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,040
time. 
Interesting, so if there's no 

591
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,480
heroin coming in, do people just
switch to a different drug? 

592
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,440
Not quite. 
Southwest Asia stepped in as a 

593
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,560
secondary source, and for a 
while you had this fascinating 

594
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,480
competition between the two 
regions, almost like 2 global 

595
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,400
forces vying for a share of the 
Canadian market. 

596
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,240
That's wild. 
So I imagine the authorities 

597
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:40,920
were trying to keep up with all 
of this with these two major 

598
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,440
players in the game. 
Oh, absolutely. 

599
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,520
And they were really focusing on
targeting those high level 

600
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,280
traffickers. 
Did that have any impact? 

601
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,840
They definitely caused some 
disruptions, but even the RCMP 

602
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,600
reports acknowledge that it 
didn't really reduce the actual 

603
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,960
heroin supply on the street. 
So it was kind of like playing 

604
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,840
whack a mole, you know, He 
knocked down one operation, but 

605
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,480
another one pops up somewhere 
else. 

606
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,960
Yeah, I can see how that would 
be incredibly frustrating. 

607
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,840
So what happened next? 
Did anything change? 

608
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,720
Toward the late 1990s, we start 
seeing a shift. 

609
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,920
The RCMP was making bigger 
seizures, which suggests that 

610
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,760
trafficking organizations were 
becoming more powerful. 

611
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,280
More powerful? 
How so? 

612
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,120
They had more resources, more 
sophisticated logistics, they 

613
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,000
were operating on a scale that 
was becoming harder and harder 

614
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,400
to contain. 
Like an arms race, law 

615
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,680
enforcement trying to keep up 
with these increasingly 

616
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,880
sophisticated criminal networks.
That's a good way to put it. 

617
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,120
And remember, Canada was also 
being used as a transit point 

618
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,280
for heroin that was destined for
the US. 

619
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,000
Oh, right, so it wasn't just 
about addressing domestic 

620
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,040
consumption, it was also about 
being caught in this 

621
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,320
international flow of drugs. 
Exactly a very complex 

622
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,120
situation. 
OK, so heroin, definitely a 

623
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,680
roller coaster ride. 
What about cocaine? 

624
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,680
What were the trends looking 
like there? 

625
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,920
Cocaine's a different story. 
It's one of steady growth, with 

626
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,400
its popularity rising throughout
both the 80s and the 90s. 

627
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,840
Why do you think that happened? 
What was driving that 

628
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,400
popularity? 
Well, part of it was the media. 

629
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,920
Cocaine was being glamorized. 
Glamorized. 

630
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,080
How so? 
It was associated with success, 

631
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,840
with wealth, with a certain 
allure of danger. 

632
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,360
Right. 
It had that kind of forbidden 

633
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,080
fruit appeal. 
Exactly. 

634
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,680
And it wasn't seen as a fringe 
drug anymore. 

635
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,960
It started to cross those social
and economic boundaries. 

636
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,720
So it became more mainstream. 
What did the RCMP report say 

637
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:30,480
about how this played out? 
They don't really delve into 

638
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,160
those specific social contexts, 
but they do highlight how law 

639
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,680
enforcement efforts in South 
America, where most of the 

640
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,600
cocaine was coming from, had 
this kind of ripple effect. 

641
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,640
A ripple effect. 
Yeah, so when they cracked down 

642
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,200
in one area and would just shift
to a new location. 

643
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,680
So it's like squeezing a 
balloon, the pressure just moves

644
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,080
somewhere else. 
Exactly. 

645
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,120
It's really hard to stop it at 
the source. 

646
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:54,440
So if you can't stop the flow, 
did that impact what types of 

647
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,880
cocaine were coming into Canada?
Absolutely. 

648
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,560
We see the emergence of crack 
cocaine, which spreads rapidly 

649
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,440
across Canadian cities. 
And crack. 

650
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,160
I mean, that's a whole other 
beast, isn't it? 

651
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,040
Yeah, it was cheaper, more 
potent and unfortunately, more 

652
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,360
addictive. 
So a whole new set of 

653
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,920
challenges, particularly for 
those marginalized communities 

654
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,120
that were already struggling. 
OK, so who were the big players 

655
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,280
in all of this? 
Who was controlling this influx 

656
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,920
of cocaine? 
Well, the Colombian cartels were

657
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,120
heavily involved, but the RCMP 
reports also highlight this 

658
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,880
growing influence of outlaw 
motorcycle gangs. 

659
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,440
Like the Hells Angels? 
Exactly. 

660
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,760
And they weren't just involved 
in distribution, they were 

661
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,760
becoming more and more 
entrenched in all aspects of the

662
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,400
drug trade. 
So it wasn't just an external 

663
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,280
problem, you at home, homegrown 
criminal elements profiting from

664
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,600
this as well, Yeah. 
Did the RCMP have any success in

665
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,000
curbing all of this? 
They were making some large 

666
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,080
seizures, but even the report 
suggests that cocaine 

667
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,240
availability remained high. 
Supply was outstripping their 

668
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:55,400
efforts. 
A classic case of too much 

669
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,000
product, not enough enforcement.
Did the smugglers change their 

670
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,800
tactics at all? 
Oh yeah, constantly. 

671
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,760
They were always innovating. 
In the beginning it was mainly 

672
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:08,160
small scale Courier operations, 
but then we see a shift to these

673
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,000
larger shipments concealed 
within legitimate cargo. 

674
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,200
But they had to get more 
creative to avoid getting 

675
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,280
caught. 
They did, and it was everything 

676
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,920
you can imagine. 
Coffee beans, lumber, you name 

677
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,040
it. 
It was a constant game of cat 

678
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:22,440
and mouse. 
I bet so. 

679
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,120
It wasn't just one big cartel 
controlling everything, it was 

680
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,200
this whole web of different 
players, all with their own 

681
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,680
methods and networks. 
That's right, and it's important

682
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,640
to note that it wasn't just 
Colombians either. 

683
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,720
The RCMP reports point to the 
involvement of other organized 

684
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:39,160
crime groups too, Italian and 
Jamaican cartels, all with their

685
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,240
own strategies and connections. 
Really a global operation. 

686
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,960
OK, so we've talked about heroin
and cocaine. 

687
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,640
Let's shift gears and talk about
a drug with a very different 

688
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,480
history and cultural context. 
Let's talk about cannabis. 

689
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,480
Yeah, cannabis has a unique 
story. 

690
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:57,400
In Canada, it was the most 
widely used illicit drug 

691
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,720
throughout these two decades and
probably still is. 

692
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,680
Right. 
And I've heard stories about BC 

693
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,000
Bud being a big deal even back 
then. 

694
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,080
Was that something that was 
mentioned in the reports? 

695
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,520
Absolutely. 
Canadian growers, particularly 

696
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,120
in British Columbia, they were 
building a reputation for 

697
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,240
producing some really high 
quality marijuana. 

698
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:16,240
They were rivaling the imported 
stuff. 

699
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,080
So it was a homegrown product 
that was gaining international 

700
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:20,800
recognition. 
Interesting. 

701
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,040
And here's where it gets even 
more interesting. 

702
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,760
Canadian marijuana wasn't just 
for domestic consumption, they 

703
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,920
were actually exporting it. 
Really, where was it going? 

704
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,840
Some of it was going to the US 
and get this, it was sometimes 

705
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,520
being used as currency to 
purchase cocaine. 

706
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,880
Wait a minute, are you saying 
they were essentially bartering 

707
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,960
weed for coke? 
Yeah, pretty much. 

708
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,680
The reports indicate that the 
exchange rate was something like

709
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,400
3 kilos of cocaine for 1K of 
marijuana. 

710
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,520
That's incredible. 
So Canada was involved in both 

711
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,360
sides of the drug trade, both as
a supplier and the consumer. 

712
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,200
Really fascinating. 
What about organized crime? 

713
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:57,960
Were they involved in the 
cannabis trade as well? 

714
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,360
Oh yeah, you can't escape 
organized crime, can you? 

715
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,400
The report specifically 
mentioned those outlaw 

716
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,520
motorcycle gangs. 
They were playing a big role in 

717
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,320
cultivation and distribution, 
even for something that had a 

718
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,680
strong domestic supply. 
So even with a plant that grows 

719
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,480
naturally, you still have these 
criminal elements finding ways 

720
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,800
to profit and exert control. 
That's kind of a recurring 

721
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:21,920
theme. 
It is isn't. 

722
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,680
It just shows how deeply 
intertwined these issues are. 

723
00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:25,720
Yeah. 
OK. 

724
00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:29,360
So we've covered the big three, 
heroin, cocaine and cannabis. 

725
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,400
What about some of those newer 
drugs, those chemical drugs that

726
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,440
were emerging during this time? 
We'll focus on methamphetamine 

727
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,160
and ecstasy. 
Those were the ones that were 

728
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,920
really gaining traction in 
Canada. 

729
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,520
OK, so let's start with meth. 
Where was it coming from? 

730
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,760
Was it being produced locally? 
A lot of it was, yeah, primarily

731
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,960
produced in those clandestine 
labs often controlled by outlaw 

732
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,200
motorcycle gangs. 
Those guys again. 

733
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,720
What about ecstasy? 
Was that a local product too? 

734
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:55,840
Not so much. 
Most of the ecstasy was imported

735
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,080
mostly from Western Europe. 
Interesting, and I imagine the 

736
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,400
rise of ecstasy was linked to 
that whole rave culture that was

737
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,400
taking off in the 90s. 
Oh absolutely. 

738
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,760
The RCMP reports mentioned that 
connection specifically. 

739
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,800
So you've got this social 
phenomenon driving the demand 

740
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,680
for this new drug. 
Exactly. 

741
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,880
And while the authorities were 
trying to crack down on meth 

742
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,480
production, it remained a pretty
persistent problem. 

743
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,680
Why was that? 
Because the chemicals needed to 

744
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,360
make it were readily available. 
So even if you shut down the 

745
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,280
labs, you still got this easy 
access to the ingredients. 

746
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,080
Exactly. 
It's like trying to stop a flood

747
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,120
by plugging 1 hole in the dam. 
It just finds another way 

748
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,520
through. 
Yeah, so meth and ecstasy, 2 

749
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,520
very different drugs, both 
presenting their own unique 

750
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:39,640
challenges. 
Definitely. 

751
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,360
And it's important to remember 
that all of this data, all of 

752
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,720
this analysis, it's not just 
numbers on a page. 

753
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,440
These are real lives being 
impacted by this complex issue. 

754
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,360
Absolutely. 
And that's where those personal 

755
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,160
accounts become so powerful. 
They provide a whole other 

756
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,200
dimension to this story. 
Exactly. 

757
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,680
They remind us that behind every
statistic, every seizure, 

758
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,200
there's a human story waiting to
be told. 

759
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,560
And that's what we're going to 
explore in the next part of our 

760
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,240
deep dive. 
We'll be looking at those 

761
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:09,200
personal experiences, how people
were navigating this drug 

762
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,000
landscape, what they were 
struggling with, and what their 

763
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,920
stories can teach us about the 
broader impact of this issue. 

764
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,760
Picking up where we left off 
last time, I'm really interested

765
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,520
to hear your thoughts on those 
personal accounts we touched on 

766
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,520
at the end there. 
What really stood out to you 

767
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,800
about those? 
One thing that really resonated 

768
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,720
with me was how the source 
described addiction as this 

769
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:30,720
descent into hell. 
Oh wow. 

770
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,280
You know, like each step taking 
you further and further away 

771
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,440
from who you really are. 
Such a powerful image it is. 

772
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,040
It really captures how insidious
this disease can be. 

773
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,600
Absolutely. 
And it's a good reminder that 

774
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:45,560
recovery is about so much more 
than just stopping the substance

775
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:47,880
use. 
It's about reclaiming your life,

776
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,200
rebuilding those connections, 
rediscovering who you are 

777
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,280
without that crutch. 
Without relying on those 

778
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,080
substances, Yeah. 
The source also talked about the

779
00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:00,040
importance of, you know, really 
addressing those underlying 

780
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,880
psychological issues. 
It's like you're peeling back 

781
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,720
the layers of an onion, trying 
to understand what drove someone

782
00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:09,120
to seek solace and substances in
the first place. 

783
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,520
And that's often the hardest 
part, isn't it? 

784
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,760
Confronting those deep seated 
traumas, the anxieties, 

785
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,520
insecurities. 
It takes a lot of courage. 

786
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,840
It does. 
To face those demons head on. 

787
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:21,720
For sure. 
The source mentioned using a 

788
00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:25,120
combination of, you know, things
like detoxification, counseling,

789
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,000
self reflection. 
It seems like there's no 

790
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,040
one-size-fits-all approach. 
Not at all. 

791
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,520
Recovery is a deeply personal 
journey, and it often involves a

792
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,480
lot of trial and error. 
Yeah, what works for one person 

793
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,680
might not work for another. 
It's about finding the right 

794
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,880
tools, the right strategy of. 
Hearing out what works for you. 

795
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,800
To manage the stress, you know, 
develop those healthy coping 

796
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,520
mechanisms and build a support 
system that can help you stay on

797
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:49,600
track. 
They also talked about finding a

798
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,520
sense of purpose. 
You know, something beyond just 

799
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,640
those fleet being highs of 
substance use, right? 

800
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,000
It's about rediscovering those 
things that bring joy and 

801
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,560
meaning and genuine connection 
back into your life. 

802
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,800
And what's really interesting 
here is that those insights, 

803
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,720
yeah, those aren't just relevant
for people in recovery, right? 

804
00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:11,960
If we think about the bigger 
picture, they apply to society 

805
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:13,320
as a whole. 
How so? 

806
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,920
Well, addressing the drug 
problem requires more than just 

807
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,400
law enforcement. 
It's about creating environments

808
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,200
that foster well-being, 
resilience, a sense of 

809
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,560
belonging. 
Think back to some of those 

810
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,080
social and cultural factors. 
We talked about the 

811
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,280
glamorization in the media, the 
pressures of certain 

812
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,040
professions, the association of 
drugs and alcohol with status 

813
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,240
and escape. 
Powerful. 

814
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:37,720
Influences. 
They are, yeah. 

815
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,160
It makes you question some of 
those cultural messages. 

816
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,800
It does. 
Are we as a society doing enough

817
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,000
to promote mental health 
awareness? 

818
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,240
Are we doing enough to foster 
healthy work life balance? 

819
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,040
Are we challenging that 
glorification of excess and 

820
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,360
escapism? 
Really important questions to 

821
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,080
consider. 
Yeah, creating a more supportive

822
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,320
environment, it takes a 
collective effort. 

823
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,400
It's about shifting those 
broader societal norms and 

824
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,680
values. 
Absolutely, and I think it's 

825
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:10,040
interesting how even the RCMP 
reports acknowledge the 

826
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:12,160
limitations of their data. 
Oh, for sure. 

827
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,640
They were relying so heavily on 
that supply based approach, 

828
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,600
right, which as we talked about 
only captures a fraction of 

829
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,160
what's really going on. 
It's like trying to measure the 

830
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,040
depth of a lake by only looking 
at the surface ripple. 

831
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,440
Right, you're missing so much of
what's happening beneath. 

832
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,640
Exactly. 
And even the data they did have 

833
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,040
have was often incomplete or 
delayed, which makes it even 

834
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:33,720
harder to get an accurate 
picture. 

835
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:36,160
It's the nature of these 
clandestine operations. 

836
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,800
Things are happening in the 
shadows, often long before law 

837
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,720
enforcement catches up. 
So you've got this lag between 

838
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:45,680
what's actually happening and 
when that information becomes 

839
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,560
available. 
And even then you've got a 

840
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:50,840
challenge of interpretation. 
How much of this data is skewed 

841
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:55,880
by shifting enforcement 
priorities, by random chance, by

842
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,440
just the constant maneuvering of
these criminal networks? 

843
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,840
It raises a big question, how 
effective were these enforcement

844
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,400
efforts in actually addressing 
the root of the problem? 

845
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,440
Right, because you're looking at
the outcomes, but not 

846
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,280
necessarily the causes. 
Exactly. 

847
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,800
The reports do show some 
successes. 

848
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,480
You know, they talk about large 
seizures, right? 

849
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,360
The disruption of major 
trafficking operations. 

850
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,120
Yeah. 
But they also acknowledge that 

851
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,880
these wins often had a limited 
impact on overall drug 

852
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,480
availability and prices. 
OK, It goes back to that whack a

853
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,840
mole analogy. 
You can't just keep knocking 

854
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,560
down individual targets, right? 
You have to address the 

855
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,960
underlying system. 
So you have to deal with both 

856
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:35,920
supply and demand. 
Precisely. 

857
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,440
Did the RCMP reports shed any 
light on efforts to address the 

858
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,440
demand side? 
They do mention prevention and 

859
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,360
treatment programs, but those 
initiatives were often 

860
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,760
underfunded. 
They were overshadowed by that 

861
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,640
focus on enforcement. 
It's like putting all your 

862
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,320
energy into putting out fires 
without addressing the 

863
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,440
conditions that are causing them
in the first place. 

864
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,120
A good analogy, and I think 
those personal accounts really 

865
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,360
highlight the need for that more
holistic approach. 

866
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:05,200
It's not just about getting 
people to stop using drugs, it's

867
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,600
about helping them heal, build 
resilience, find a sense of 

868
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,520
purpose and belonging in their 
lives. 

869
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,120
It makes you wonder how much has
really changed in the 21st 

870
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:16,800
century. 
That's a good question. 

871
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,240
Have we learned from those 
challenges and limitations that 

872
00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:21,280
were outlined in these RCMP 
reports? 

873
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,840
Are we approaching the drug 
problem in a fundamentally 

874
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,760
different way today? 
It's a great question and one 

875
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,040
that I think we need to explore 
further in the final part of our

876
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,320
deep dive, but I think it's safe
to say that some things have 

877
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:35,800
remained constant. 
Like what? 

878
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,800
Well, the human desire for 
escape, that's not going 

879
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,520
anywhere, right? 
The allure of quick profits. 

880
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:46,120
Yeah, that complex interplay of 
social, economic and political 

881
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,280
forces that shape the drug 
landscape. 

882
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:49,920
Right. 
It's never just one thing. 

883
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,400
It's this whole web of 
interconnected factors. 

884
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,120
Exactly. 
So we've covered a lot of ground

885
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:57,360
in this deep dive, from those 
historical trends in Canada's 

886
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,960
drug scene to the personal 
stories, you know, that remind 

887
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:02,880
us about the human cost of 
addiction. 

888
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,680
But this story doesn't end in 
2001, right? 

889
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,400
What can we learn from all this 
as we look ahead to, you know, 

890
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,600
the challenges we face now in 
the 21st century? 

891
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:15,800
Well, that's the $1,000,000 
question, isn't it? 

892
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:17,320
Yeah. 
I mean, we don't have a crystal 

893
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,640
ball, but we can look back and 
see, you know, some of the 

894
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,840
patterns from the past. 
Draw some insights from that. 

895
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:28,000
Think about how much the world 
has changed since 2001. 

896
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,480
Oh, yeah. 
The Internet, globalization, a 

897
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,840
whole wave of new synthetic 
drugs. 

898
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:34,520
Yeah, it's like a whole new ball
game. 

899
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,920
What impact do you think those 
changes have had on the drug 

900
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:39,960
trade? 
Well, in a lot of ways, it's 

901
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,240
like adding fuel to the fire. 
The Internet has created new 

902
00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:47,120
avenues for trafficking, makes 
it easier to connect buyers and 

903
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:51,200
sellers, often anonymously. 
It's also made it easier for 

904
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,720
people to access information 
about drug production. 

905
00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:57,320
So, you know, there are concerns
about DIY drug manufacturing 

906
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,560
becoming more prevalent. 
Globalization has blurred 

907
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:04,560
borders, made those production 
and distribution networks even 

908
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,040
more complex, more difficult to 
track. 

909
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,800
And the new synthetic drugs, 
well, they're often more potent,

910
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,200
more addictive, harder to 
detect. 

911
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,520
So yeah, a whole new set of 
challenges for everyone 

912
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,280
involved. 
It's like this constant game of 

913
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,600
catch up. 
The drug trade is always finding

914
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:25,320
new ways to adapt and innovate. 
It makes you wonder, are we 

915
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,400
fighting a losing battle? 
It can feel that way sometimes, 

916
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,120
yeah. 
But I think the key is to kind 

917
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,440
of shift our perspective. 
Instead of just focusing on 

918
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:36,520
eradication, which history has 
shown as largely ineffective, we

919
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,880
need to adopt A more nuanced and
strategic approach, one that 

920
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,160
acknowledges, you know, those 
complex social, economic and 

921
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,520
political forces that are 
driving demand for drugs in the 

922
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:48,840
first place. 
So it's not just about stopping 

923
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,520
the flow of drugs, it's about 
understanding why people are 

924
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:52,840
turning to them in the first 
place. 

925
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:54,760
Yeah. 
And addressing those underlying 

926
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,480
issues, OK. 
So what would that look like in 

927
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,120
practice? 
It's a multi pronged approach 

928
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,280
for sure. 
We need to invest in prevention 

929
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:05,640
programs, you know, target those
root causes, poverty, lack of 

930
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,920
opportunity, social isolation, 
mental health issues. 

931
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,800
We need to promote those healthy
coping mechanisms and 

932
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:13,800
resilience, particularly amongst
young people. 

933
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,800
And we need to create 
communities that foster a sense 

934
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,880
of belonging and purpose so that
people don't feel the need to 

935
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,680
escape through substances. 
It sounds like a pretty 

936
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:28,560
monumental task, requires a 
shift in mindset, a real 

937
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,040
commitment from everyone to 
address these issues on a 

938
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:33,240
societal level. 
Yeah. 

939
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:34,880
What about the role of law 
enforcement? 

940
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,480
Do you think their strategies 
need to change as well? 

941
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,720
Definitely, we need to move 
beyond just interdiction and 

942
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:42,400
punishment. 
It hasn't really worked that 

943
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:43,960
well. 
Invest in intelligence 

944
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,440
gathering, disruption of those 
major trafficking networks, but 

945
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,800
also adopt A more compassionate 
and humane approach to those who

946
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,440
are struggling with addiction. 
Prioritize treatment and 

947
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,320
rehabilitation over 
incarceration. 

948
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,560
Recognize that addiction is a 
health issue, not a criminal 

949
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:00,160
one. 
Right. 

950
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,280
It's not about punishing people,
it's about helping them. 

951
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:05,720
And this brings us back to those
personal accounts the source 

952
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:07,560
talked about. 
You know how easily people can 

953
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:12,360
slip into substance use, driven 
by stress, by social pressure, 

954
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:16,960
the desire to escape? 
It just highlights the need for 

955
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,560
those harm reduction strategies.
It does. 

956
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,280
Recognizing that people are 
going to use drugs regardless of

957
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,640
what we do. 
Harm reduction is so crucial, 

958
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,840
you know, acknowledging the 
reality of drug use and focusing

959
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,000
on minimizing those negative 
consequences. 

960
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,800
Needle exchange programs, safe 
injection sites, access to 

961
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:35,960
naloxone kits. 
Yeah, they save lives. 

962
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:37,440
They do. 
They meet people where they're 

963
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,080
at, offer a bridge to treatment 
and support. 

964
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,760
And it's about recognizing the 
humanity in all of this, 

965
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,240
absolutely, even if we don't 
agree with the choices that 

966
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,680
people are making. 
It's about compassion, 

967
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,760
understanding, a willingness to 
help, not just judge or condemn.

968
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,840
Exactly, and it's important to 
remember that recovery is 

969
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,720
possible. 
Many people do find their way 

970
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,200
out of addiction, but it's 
rarely easy. 

971
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:04,960
It often involves confronting 
those deeper issues that led to 

972
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,880
substance use in the 1st place. 
The trauma, the anxiety, that 

973
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,440
desperate need for connection. 
We need to create a system that 

974
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,600
supports those people. 
Yeah, give them the tools and 

975
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,160
resources they need to rebuild 
their lives, for sure. 

976
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,160
Well, this has been an 
incredible deep dive. 

977
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,040
We've covered everything from, 
you know, those historical 

978
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:26,840
trends to the really personal 
stories that bring this whole 

979
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,320
complex issue to life. 
It's been a great conversation. 

980
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,480
So what's one final thought you 
want to leave our listeners 

981
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,000
with? 
I guess I would just say that 

982
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,000
those trends we've talked about,
the globalization of the drug 

983
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:39,400
trade, the rise of those 
synthetic drugs, the Internet as

984
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,600
a facilitator, they all point to
a future where these challenges 

985
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:44,520
are only going to become more 
complex. 

986
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:47,800
But amidst that complexity, we 
must never lose sight of the 

987
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,920
human element. 
Behind every statistic, every 

988
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:55,000
seizure, every overdose, there's
a story, there's a life, a 

989
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:58,880
family impacted by this issue. 
And that's what should drive our

990
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,880
efforts to find solutions. 
A recognition that this isn't 

991
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:05,080
just a war on drugs, it's a 
fight for the well-being of our 

992
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:06,800
communities and the people in 
them. 

993
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,240
That's a really powerful message
to end on. 

994
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,920
Thank you so much for joining us
today and guiding us through 

995
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:15,040
this incredibly complex and 
often challenging landscape. 

996
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:16,880
It's been my pleasure. 
And all of our listeners out 

997
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:18,880
there, thank you for tuning into
the deep dive. 

998
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,880
We encourage you to continue 
exploring this topic, to learn 

999
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,040
more about those social, 
economic, and political forces 

1000
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:28,080
that shape the drug trade, and 
to think about the ways that we 

1001
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,280
can all contribute to creating a
world where fewer people feel 

1002
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:33,200
the need to escape through these
substances. 

1003
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,240
Until next time, keep diving 
deep.