The Vancouver True Crime podcast welcomes you.
Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for the amazing
growth. Thank you for all the new
listeners, the old listeners, a loyal listeners.
I love you all even my haters because you motivate me every
single day. Got some amazing news.
Our numbers on Spotify have now reached parity with iTunes.
When I first started, this podcast first, second year,
seventy percent of my download listeners was on iTunes and I
really appreciate that. But Spotify has now reached
parity. I'm so happy about that.
We have listeners and across Canada.
United States, United Kingdom, and Ireland, Australia.
And I'm happy to report. We're getting a lot, new
listeners and Mexico, love you very much, Mexico, amazing
country, amazing culture, love you guys, very much enjoyed
spending. Lots of times and vacations
there. I hope to be there soon.
Did some analytics on my social media numbers on Tick-Tock or
exploding have some videos and almost reached a million and a
very short time. I course Instagram which is kind
of been my main platform 24 million impressions for 2022.
so, It's all thanks to you. And I have some even better
news. With the help.
Of some of my followers. We've been catching some Bad
Dudes, been putting some Bad Dudes Behind Bars.
We caught a major creep. Want to Canada's, most Wanted
creeps is now in custody. Thanks for to your help and we
might be helping in the location of a young teenage girl who's
currently being trafficked more to report on that soon.
Soon. So this is an important platform
for me is because I said from the beginning, I wanted to build
an organic brand that provided Community advocacy.
Entertainment, sometimes, even a little comedy.
We all need a little comic relief.
Provide value. I have lots of plans for 2023
and, you know, I'm just, you know, out of the world grateful
and happy to be in the position that I'm in and again, none of
it's possible without any of you.
So this series evil intentions narcissistic monsters.
In this episode, we're going to get into dark psychology.
I'm going to do more Deep dive in the Paul, Bernardo. do if you
haven't listened to the first episode in this series, please
listen to that police interview with Paul Bernardo because I
want to illustrate the, the capacity of these narcissist,
their, their abilities, Paul Bernardo, if you if you
understand his crimes, which I in part two, I think it
illustrates his monstrosity and I will be keep doing a deep dive
in Paul, Bernardo Has Paul. Bernardo is a peer narcissistic
monster hence the name of the series.
Here's a man that was capable of some of the most horrific
atrocities in Canadian history. And could sit in a police,
interrogation room and lie with ease and of conviction.
Almost put the investigators on their back foot.
Blaming them saying you're the bad guys.
You're the liars. And that is what you're dealing
with when you're dealing with these narcissistic monsters
course. Not all narcissists are our
power Bernardo but they all have the potential because they lack
empathy. Once you realize that you're
dealing with a narcissism malignant narcissists, they
don't care about you. They just want to use you for
whatever reason, and this is what we're going to get into.
Before I start the podcast, I want to talk a little bit about
myself. If you listen to my podcast from
the beginning, I've been always open about sharing my life and
what I've been going through my UPS.
My Downs, the embarrassing moments of fighting moments, my
tragedies and I'm in an open book.
I I make myself accessible. You can contact me directly
anytime, Want either through my Facebook Messenger my Instagram
and I'm always willing to talk to everybody and anybody even
people that want to challenge me on my points of you and I have
had that I've had to deal with every type of person.
Since starting this podcast, you know, I've interacted with
hundreds of thousands of people through my various platforms as
sometimes, it's just comment. Sometimes it's direct messages,
sometimes it's phone calls. Some Times, it's emails.
And I've always make myself available So I wanted to talk a
little bit. I'm not going to get too much
into the details, but the last year has been pretty challenging
through some personal stuff and things I've been witnessing and
from 2020. When my wife died I had a lot of
post-traumatic stress that I work through.
I went and saw a very prominent psychologist and psychiatrist
who helped me get through a lot of trauma and kind of get back
in touch with my emotions. Ins and be able to be the person
that I'm that sitting here doing this podcast today because it
was important for me, not to be a damaged broken person, because
I still have small children, and I have a lot of goals and
ambitions. That I wish to do.
So, I wanted to talk about last year due to some of the trauma
and this horrible, you know, stuff I witnessed.
I had a lot of post-traumatic stress and sometimes I probably
came across kind of little erratic, maybe a little neurotic
and stressed out and and baby. Maybe some people who talked to
me a lot would probably recognize it but I feel a lot
better. Better.
I feel a lot better. I feel a lot more clear-headed.
I feel a lot more focused and I am sharing this because a lot of
people have mental health issues and specially in Vancouver.
My hometown for whatever reason. This seems to be the mental
health capital of Canada and I've suffered from mental
health. I've suffered from anxiety, I
suffer from depression suffer from post-traumatic stress.
And the way that post-traumatic stress affects me is I kind of
shut down. And sometimes I might appear a
little an erotic speak fast, repeat my words, sometimes
stumble on Words, make mistakes on Words and and it's like my
head is spinning. And then I have to slow myself
down. So I'm telling you it's
important to work on yourself and how I deal with my
post-traumatic stress, is I try to First recognize that I'm
going through it, recognize the symptoms.
It's slightly kind of similar in my case 10 xiety.
But a little bit different if that makes sense.
And sometimes, you know to help with post-traumatic stress, I
was using a lot of marijuana because it's, you know, I don't
really drink. I drink very light, I drink
maybe sometimes when I go out I'll have a few drinks.
But I don't I'm not a heavy drinker, I'm not a regular
drinker. So I was smoking a lot of weed
to help me get through the post-traumatic stress but I'm
right now, I've quit weed because I want to be very clear
headed. I want to be very sharp Taiwan
to be very dialed in doing these podcasts.
I've done a lot and lot of writing, I probably have written
just in the last few days. I probably written probably
about seven thousand words. It's on this new narcissistic
podcast series and Marijuana helps.
But it also hurts, if that makes sense.
It helps with the symptoms of post-traumatic stress.
For me, it helped me sleep. It helped me kind of just kind
of dull the, the symptoms I'm not on any medication, I don't
take antidepressants. I don't take any anti-anxiety
medication, so I was self-medicating with marijuana.
And again, I believe that marijuana is better than
drinking everyday. It's, you know, it's I think
it's a better option and I think it's also possible a good choice
for me before harm reduction, if you're using heavier drugs,
right? I'm just saying, these are this
options but again, everything has a time and place and I'm not
here to judge people for whatever their circumstances,
but I just wanted to share more. What was been going on with me
behind the scenes? Now, you know again I'm in a
very good place clear-headed. I haven't smoked any weed in a
bit. I'm sleeping better.
I'm having dreams. Again, which is nice.
The one of the things that I found with cannabis, I don't I
don't really get into a deep REM sleep, and I'm just having
really crazy Lucid vivid dreams again, which is kind of cool.
I enjoy that I enjoy. I feel a lot more articulate, I
feel sharper and I feel like I'm getting more stuff done.
So I just wanted to share that with you guys because you know,
you guys are important to me and it's important for me to be kind
of an open book with With with you guys and kind of share my
journey, making this podcast, this podcast started with the
most humble beginnings. I was in a kind of a crossroad.
I was my background is corporate sales.
I did lot of startups and Business Development.
It was getting more and more stressful type of work.
The type of type of opportunities are getting.
We're getting more and more kind of, elaborate and stressful.
Paid good money at it, the money was good but the hours were
long, really long hours. Some days, I'd some weeks I'd
worked 90-hour weeks as deadlines and putting out fires
dealing with customers. You know it took a toll on me.
I gained a lot of weight because I'm eating out all the time
eating out and food fairs eating out and you know, cut the you
know, client dinners and getting invited to this and that and
you're always grabbing food on the go.
And I got pretty heavy at my heaviest.
I weighed almost At 280 pounds. I had a lot of joint issues.
I had a lot of body pain and I did not like the way I looked.
Every time I looked in the mirror I was like hey that's on
me. Who the who's that guy?
So happy to report right now. As you're talking to me, I weigh
about 220 pounds. I'm six foot one and I'm
probably the leanest I've been in a long time.
I'm athletic. I'm active and it's important
for me to be that way because I have small children.
And I have to keep up with them little there have little feet
but they can run fast. So I want to be around for them
and that helped a lot too, because your self-image is
important. People will try to say it isn't
but it is the way you look the way you feel is important.
It's important to like the way you look and like the way you
feel. So I'm happy about that.
Those are good things and I worked very hard at weight was
very difficult to take off, but it did come off.
And I'm just saying, I'm always here to encourage people.
If anyone ever wants to reach out to me about Stress, and
Anxiety, weight loss, all those things, I'm always available to
help people because that's, that's what the whole platform
is about. It's about Community.
It's about helping everybody and not being a community that looks
out for each other dangerous. Predators your mental health
your well-being. So again, thank you for
listening to that. I just wanted to share a little
bit about what's been going on with me.
Everything I that I'm dealing with is Being handled.
I have I have a lot of excellent people that thanks to the
platform because of this platform built.
I have met some truly amazing people people that are truly
spectacular than I'm so grateful to have in my life and if you're
a cool person, I'm be always happy to meet you too.
So let's get on with the show. So we're going to talk about
this. We're going to I want to get
into manipulation styles of manipulation.
And what keeps a person in an abusive relationship.
We're going to talk not necessary in this episode and
this episode I'm going to share I'm going to I found some
amazing more clips of Paul. Bernardo, I found one, I'm Karla
Homolka. I'm going to put those in the
end. But I the port is in this
series. I'm going to focus on three
real. Distinct.
Terrible monsters. Paul Bernardo Canadian one of
the worst. Serial killers in Canada
Clifford Olson. One of the worst monster a
serial killer narcissistic piece of shit from BC.
The Beast of BC who murdered children for his pleasure and
got a Payday for it, which is so disgusting.
And then, of course, Ted Bundy, who I feel is a pure I think a
narcissist very manipulative and what these three have in common
is their ability to manipulate at a master level.
All three of them were able to manipulate people, and
manipulate the system. so, criminal and deviant psychology
is a study of criminal and deviant Behavior, including
psychological, motivations, and methods used by criminals and
other deviant individuals in this podcast, like I said, it's
a true crime podcast primarily and I will be profiling, you
know, Serial killers and Cults and other evil people, but in
this series, I'm more interested in the psychology, the
intentions and the manipulation that they use.
So it's important to note that it's important to note that dark
psychology is not a form of field of study, and it's not
recognized by most academic communities.
It's not always used for negative purposes, many of the
concepts and techniques fall Under the Umbrella of dark
psychology can use for the Positive Purpose of therapy and
personal development. Like, for example NLP.
There are some people that really believe that NLP is like
this most manipulative tool. I've used NLP in the business
world for personal development. It just makes me look at how
language is used and it makes me use language more effectively.
So this thought I'd add that in there.
Let's go into red flags, let's talk about red flags, red flags
because it all comes down to relationships, right?
You start a relationship, you get into a relationship,
everything is good. People always talk about the red
flags. I saw these red flags that you
ignore the red flags or when the relationship is bad.
That's a first similar words there.
Any red flag. So, red flags is something we
hear a lot about talked about. Here are the few red Red flags.
That may indicate that you are being manipulated.
Buy a new person when you're dating.
They can be overly complementary or affectionate early on if
someone showering you with excessive compliments or
affection, early on, it could be a red flag that they're trying
to manipulate. You sometimes people are just,
you know, maybe their head over heels when I was young and kind
of dumb. If you listen to the early
podcast, I did about Elizabeth the 35 year.
Stripper. I dated when I was 25 I was
overly affection complimentary. I wasn't love-bombing her.
I was just head over heels because you know I just was very
smitten and kind of naive and you know kind of dumb back to
the red flags. They ask you for personal
information or favors before you know them.
Well If someone is asking you for personal information or
favors before you know them, well it could be a sign, they're
trying to use that information to control and manipulate you.
There are cases where it's like, they are digging in your past,
maybe how many people you slept with or things like that.
And then in an argument they call you a name and because he
slept with so many people, are they use that to guilt you?
You know, that's a, an e-zine example.
They rushed the relationship. If someone is trying to move the
relationship forward at an accelerated speed, it could be a
sign that they're trying to manipulate you and making a
commitment before you're ready. I believe that's a very strong
red flag. The isolate you from your
friends and family that is a very common.
And in my opinion, a very serious red flag.
You see that in calls, you see that narcissistic abuse, that's
something you. Over and over again, they
isolate you from other people that could have influence on you
family members friends, maybe your community.
Maybe you're from another country.
They try to get you to move to another country or move across
the country where he have no family or friends so they can
just isolate you and have full control over, you will get more
into isolation a lot because isolation comes up to me
isolation. In my opinion is one of the
biggest red flags. They make you question your own
thoughts or memory. If someone's trying to make you
question your own thoughts and memory.
This could be a sign of manipulation that's also called
gaslighting. We're going to get really deep
in the gas lighting with the narcissistic expert that I plan
to do some shows with that's going to be one of our first
shows is on gaslighting because that's something I've I've had a
lot of experience on the receiving end of, and it's
pretty hurtful and it's pretty destructive, it, really?
It really does mess with your head when it's done, very
effectively, they use guilt and shame, and fear to control you
again. Oh, you slept with so many
people write make you feel guilty about it, your lack
morals, he lack ethics, right control.
You, if someone's trying to make you feel guilty ashamed or
fearful in order to control you, it could be a sign that they're
really Trying to manipulate you. They're trying to make you
dependent on them again. Going back to the isolation.
Someone making you dependent on them for for your emotional or
material needs? That is a red flag that they're
trying to manipulate you We're going to get more deeper into
this. I'm kind of just kind of trying
to give a broad range of manipulation because it's a very
complex topic. And as time goes on and as we
kind of peel the layer of onions, we're going to get
really get deeper in this, but here we go again.
So here's a question or a question.
Question. Why do people stay and toxic
abusive relationship? That's a common thing.
Why didn't you leave? Why didn't you leave?
Didn't you see the red flags?
Why would you stay in such an abusive toxic relationship?
There's a number of reasons why people stay in toxic and abusive
relationships. Here's a few examples.
How about fear? Many people who are in abusive
relationships or afraid of their partners?
In domestic violence situations. They may fear for their own
safety. If they try to leave low
self-esteem, sometimes over time through isolation, through the
gas, lighting through the other tactics that we're going to talk
about and learn about together. Their self-esteem 0 du dudud.
So because our self-esteem because their self-esteem is so
eroded. They believe they're not worthy
of a better relationship or they may believe they are the blame
for for the partners Behavior through the manipulation Here's
a big one and I believe this happens a lot in Vancouver my
hometown because this city is possibly one of the most
expensive cities to operate in for a variety of reasons wages
are typically lower than other parts of the country yet.
It's more expensive than other parts of the country.
So Financial dependent, I remember a study, I read, it was
like, 26 percent of couples would separate if it wasn't for
the financial dependents, sharing a house, sharing a
mortgage sharing bills, maybe if you had to leave, you're not
going to build live in such a nice place.
So Financial dependent is a huge reason why people stay and very
toxic destructive relationships. Some people stay in toxic
abusive relationship because they are financially dependent
on the partner and cannot Afford to leave.
And there's love some people stay in abusive relationship
because they're still in love with their partner and they hope
they will change. When Alexandra, my late wife was
going through her mental health issues and I didn't quite
understand all of the complexity of her mental health.
I bade a podcast about it, that really breaks down her
deterioration of her mental health and that was my reason
to, I was hoping with the right help, she would go back to be Be
the old Alexandra that I met and loved.
So sometimes people stay in abusive relationship because
they still love their partner and they hope they will change
hopelessness people. In abusive relationships, may
feel hopeless, they feel there's no way out of the situation
through the gas lighting through the manipulation through the
abuse, just being chipped away, chipped away.
And I've seen relations like that were one of the partners,
Has the dead eye looks because they just had literally
everything, their self-worth or self-esteem taken away from
them, lack of support. Some people may not have support
systems through the isolation because people can rely on help
to leave the relationship. So lack of support.
Maybe their family members are toxic, maybe in sometimes, these
people are so abusive. I've seen this before were
there's a couple in a relationship that partner that's
toxic has convinced the other side of the family, how
wonderful they are. And everyone saying, oh, he's so
awesome. You can't, you know, so they
feel that there's no way out because no one's going to
support their decision to leave the relationship that there's
kids and there's other responsibilities, it can
compound that as well. Sometimes it's cultural and
religious. Reasons and some culture, some
religious backgrounds and maybe pressure to stay in the marriage
or relationship, no matter the circumstances.
So it's important to understand that leaving an abusive
relationship can be difficult and dangerous.
It's important. If you are currently in a
situation like this, it's important to have a safety Plan
before. Leaving seek professional help,
from counselors, therapists and support.
Groups seek help. Get a plan.
But again, it's your life. It's worth saving.
Crores of persuasion also known as brain washing, it refers to
the use of intense. Psychological pressure such as
prolong, isolation sleep, deprivation, and emotional
manipulation. It's to change the individuals,
belief and behavior. Here are a few forms, of course
of persuasion that can be use, isolation, we're back to
isolation. Again, isolation is really a
powerful and very effective way to control someone.
The individual is isolated from their friends or family and any
other sources of support making them more dependent on the group
in case, if it's a cult or a person exercising control sleep,
Deprivation, the individuals kept awake for long periods of
time, making them more susceptible to manipulation and
less able to resist the partners or group if it's a cold demands.
So sleep deprivation is something I suffered from when
my kids were really small, my wife's Health deteriorated, I
had to take on the kind of the heavy lifting of that.
So I'd be up all night because my Daughter would not sleep.
And then I was also task of having to run the household and
I was no 1000% what it's like and what it feels like to be in
a sleep, deprivation mindset, Physical and emotional abuse.
When the person is subjected to physical and emotional abuse,
such as humiliation harassment, intimidation it breaks down
their sense of self, making them more compliant.
Repetition indoctrination, also known as nagging.
The individual is exposed to repetitious messages and ideas
that are reinforced through constant repetition and
reinforcement. So someone saying over and over
it works. Someone does you know saying the
same thing over and over and over?
You're no good. You're stupid.
You'll never be anything. Just constant.
Just chipping away at you. It definitely has a terrible
effect on your Mental health and your well-being.
Confessional or public self-criticism, individuals, and
courage to confess their sins. Maybe this is more in a cult or
a. I've had sometimes situations
like this and really toxic workplace has one.
Really bizarre circumstance is I was working this corporate
environment, the very toxic fairy awful.
That job went from being amazing to being absolutely terrible.
The highwomen, Hired. These real Hotshot Consultants
that came in that were going to make this company into 100
million dollar company that they owners the directors and the sea
level. Sweet got sold on this pipe
dream and it was like some crazy indoctrination, like and one
part of it, you know, after being put through this, horrible
Gauntlet of this retraining, we each even though we all hated
it, and none of it worked, and none of it was effective.
The only people, That got anything of it.
Was these Consultants at end up, getting a ton of money.
We each individually had to go in front of the rest of the
company were talking, a hundred employees, hundred, plus
employees until how wonderful the training was, and how we're
grateful, and how we're going to use it.
And we're going to be, so it was insane.
It was totally insane. It pissed me off and I left the
company soon after that. But I could imagine it being
that type of technique being used and others.
Circumstances and how awful it would be?
Guilt tripping. There's a classic individuals
made to feel guilty and ashamed and responsible for other
people's actions or feelings. That's pretty self-explanatory.
Love-bombing. We're going to get into
love-bombing love-bombing comes up again, it's a very diverse
topic. I want to really talk about this
topic especially with my narcissistic abuse expert, we're
going to probably do an entire show on love-bombing.
That could be our valentimes show, a person or group
exercising control. Showering, the individuals,
excessive attention, affection. And privileges already to build
trust and create a sense of belonging and one of the podcast
I think it was Vancouver the beautiful and ugly I think was
part 6. I talked about this crazy
Christian called they definitely use love-bombing on me.
I remember when I first attended one of the Has every attractive
woman was a big congregation, just surrounded me, just all,
we're so happy to have you mark all the affection and hugs, and,
you know, back rubs and, you know, almost like they were
fighting over me and just like, yeah, it's pretty effective.
So, if you coming from a place of low self-esteem, or let's
say, your last relationship was really abusive.
Let's say you went, let's say this.
You were in a relationship with some person that was a Vana.
Avoidant never gave you compliments.
Never told you how good your look never did anything for you.
This ignored you. Or you are a child of a
neglectful, parent and all son. You meet someone or someone's
jet. Just tell you how awesome you
are, and gifts and money and clothes and hugs, affection,
sex, whatever it is, it can be pretty powerful, it can be very
intoxicating and it could be like a drug mind control the
people or person exercising control using various
psychological. Cool techniques, such as
hypnosis brainwashing and other forms of manipulation to control
the thoughts and behaviors and emotions of individuals.
So hypnotherapy is something I use myself.
I do hit more therapy and but it definitely, you know, in a dark
way I could see it being very effective for mind control.
Absolutely. As someone who's very skilled at
it, one of the series I want to do is on Charlie Manson.
And I remember watching a story about Charlie, Manson, who was
so good at hypnotherapy or Hitman hypnosis, He was
hypnotizing people in jail, to give them the effects that they
were on drugs. So if they say he would say to a
person, hey you want to smoke a joint, want to feel like what?
It's like to smoke a joint and he would hypnotize them, and
they would feel like they just smoked a joint or they took
heroin. But for one person, it didn't
work because they never used heroin.
So it didn't work, but just shows you how powerful
hypnotherapy as and from a very skilled practitioner, it can be
used for good. Good.
Or it can use be used for evil just like any tool.
Fire can heat your food up and fire could burn your house down.
So emotional abuse can be incredibly damaging and like I
talked about in the very beginning of the beginning of
this series about emotional abuse and we're going to get
into emotional because we're going to probably do whole shows
of emotional abuse. And in my opinion, emotional
abuse for me is a lot more damaging Than Physical, because
I can handle myself in a fight. Even if I lose, I've been in
fights where I won. I lost.
They sock when you lose it. Takes time to heal.
You lick your wounds and you move on.
Emotional abuse, messes with your mind.
It messes with your whole lens of how you see and interact with
the world. It erodes, your self-worth
roads, your self-esteem, and it makes it hard to do the little
things and if you can't do this, Little things.
You can't do the big things, simple as that.
So, if you've been experiencing emotional, abuse or any of the
things you talked about, it's important that you get help.
It's important to understand. First of all, what's going on,
if you can get a therapist accounts or a trusted family
member or friend, it's important to build support systems.
That's the best way to get out of things as first you have to
recognize what's going going on. And then you build a group of
support therapist, family members, trusted people in your
community and do what's best for you to get help some of these
things. Simple, simple thing is
sometimes it's just getting a good night sleep, getting your
rest eating well, when I was going through my stuff with
Alexandra's, her mental health was deteriorating.
I started to work on my health because I knew the stress of it
was going to kill me. I had panic attacks.
I have Had stress this unbelievable because I didn't
understand what was going on. If you listen to the podcast,
it's pretty self-explanatory. But one of the things I started
doing was really taking care of myself.
Start taking supplements and vitamins try to sleep as much as
I can and I started exercising and I started eating better.
And I already started my weight loss process during that, and
that saved it. So I want to end this and then
I'm going to add on a bunch of Clips I found Paul Bernardo
related because again I'm using Paul Bernardo and that's it
because one its monstrous it is a true kind podcast and I want
people to remember what he did. So it's not forgotten and also I
want to illustrate again the capabilities of a nurse's
monster what they're capable. All of the damage they can
inflict. So that's why Paul Bernardo and
this series is my poster boy for narcissistic monsters, but
before I end things, I want to talk about common words and
phrases used by manipulators, these are common phrases that
you'll hear. So when you recognize it.
So let's say right now, you're listening to this and someone's
telling you this over and over and over again.
Trust me, you're being manipulated.
And when you're being manipulated, it's never for your
own good. So here are the common phrases.
We're going to, I'm going to read a bunch of them.
I know what's best for you. Trust me.
It's for your own good. You're just too sensitive.
Oh, you're overreacting. You're imagining thing.
That's all in your head. I'm doing this for you.
Hey, you owe me. You should be grateful if you
really loved me, you would dot dot.
Dot you're being paranoid. You're being irrational.
I'm the only one that understands you.
I'm the only one that cares for you.
I'm the only one. Who can help you oh, it's not
that bad. You're just being difficult.
You're being paranoid. Now, understand though,
sometimes in contacts, these can be in a in a context where
you're not being manipulated. But what I'm saying with me?
What what I mean by being? If they're saying this commonly,
when you have a concern, you're trying to address something.
You're trying to say or you're not happy with something.
So it's all in your head. It's not that bad.
You're just being difficult, you're just being paranoid.
I'd you're just imagining thing and listen to your gut feeling,
listen to how you feel. That's important.
It's important that you feel strong about your inner voice.
So I'm going to leave it here. I'm going to be keep making
podcasts, have so much material. I'm going to do my best to get
these out each and every day I that I can amongst all my other
responsibilities. But this is an important series
and like I said I'm very excited and having some guests.
Come on on. This and I really appreciate all
the support. I really am grateful that with
together. We built a platform that's doing
some good stuff. We're putting some bad guys away
and we are making a difference in our community and none of it
is possible without you. Thank you from the bottom of my
heart. It was one week ago today that
st. Catherine's teen Kristen French
disappeared today. Niagara Regional Police say they
have received hundreds of calls and to see if he was Tom Hayes.
Reports, one caller witnessed the suspect's car, leave the
area where French was believed to have been abducted or
assistance can inspector. Vince Bevin says, his officers
are taking up the 60 calls a minute callers are providing
information, not only about vehicles but people as well.
All of these tips are useful and Hopefully, we'll continue police
say, they have received information saying that the
cream-colored Camaro or Firebird left the parking lot of the
Grace Lutheran Church and headed east along Lynn Well, Road.
The witness says the car was driving erratically towards
Geneva Road. Meanwhile at Holy Cross.
Secondary school today. Students, started a green ribbon
campaign. It's great feeling knowing that
whenever we look at our green ribbons, we think of Kristen and
hope for the best. Kristin's parents are also
wearing ribbons and like the students have not given up, hope
they feel so strong that the same as we do that, she's still
out there. And they just want to express
that feeling to the public and to Christy if she's as a chance
to watch the everybody's behind her and the hold on, until the
police get there and get her tonight.
Police will start us three proofing program parents of
school. Children can take part tonight
at Centennial library. Tom.
Hey C. Fto News, Saint Catherine.
Police in st. Catharines.
Hope they have a new lead in The Disappearance of Kristen French.
Police want to talk with the driver of a gray horizon or Omni
who may have witnessed a cream-colored Camaro speeding
from the area. Where French was last seen?
CFT, owes Tom, Hayes reports. Niagara Regional Police say the
driver of the great Omni similar to this car could have Vital
Information in the Abduction of Kristen French police believe
the cream-colored Camaro suspected in the abduction.
Left the grace church parking lot on Lynn.
Well Road and headed east the Camaro.
Driving erratically may have turned on to Geneva Street where
it nearly collided with a grey Omni or Horizon in the
intersection of Geneva and Scott.
If you were the driver of this, great Omni or spot, Car in the
area. You are urged to phone.
The hotline number at one eight hundred to six seven six three
five seven. Police received this information
yesterday during a spot check along Lynn Well Road today,
police are following up on other interviews with some people who
say they may have seen the cream-colored Camaro in a sad
twist to this story. Police say there is a group in
st. Catherine's asking for donations
on behalf of Kristen and the Holy Cross.
Secondary School police warned That these solicitations have
not been authorized by Holy Cross or the French family.
Tom Hayes, CFT onew. Good evening.
Immense relief tonight, and some closure for the families of
Kristen, French and Leslie. Mahaffy gruesome video tapes
depicting the rape. And torture of the school girls.
Have now been incinerated during an emotional Gathering.
See if he is Alicia K marks and spoke with Christians mother,
Donna, French him st. Catherine's today.
And every time those tapes were viewed, it's a violation of the
girls involved and to know that that's not going to happen.
Again, means a lot, Donna French is grateful that after a long
battle, the horrific Videotapes of her daughter Kristen and
Leslie mahaffy being raped and tortured.
By Paul Bernardo are finally gone forever.
It was very, very emotional. There was the Maha fees and my
husband and my son was with me. He, there were members of the
green ribbon, Chief Bevin and chief Nichols was there and
superintendent, Gary bolio, who arranged all of this the tapes
which were incinerated Helped convict Paul Bernardo of two
counts of first-degree murder in 1995, they contrast sharply with
this home video of Bernardo and his then, wife Karla Homolka.
Tim Danson lawyer for the French.
And Mahaffey families, says all known copies of those tapes, and
a significant amount of other materials were destroyed
yesterday in an undisclosed location.
As everybody knows the Supreme Court of Canada has said no to
Bernardo and therefore, in our view, there are no further legal
proceedings. And therefore not required for
the administration of justice. The tapes were not discovered by
police during a comprehensive search of bernardo's home.
After his 1993 arrest, Bernardo is ex wife, Karla Homolka.
Eventually told police about the videotapes and testified against
Bernardo as part of a plea bargain.
She's serving a 12-year sentence at a women's prison in Joliet
Quebec. Homolka is lawyer.
Mark, labelled says he is totally in agreement with the
destruction of the tapes and contends.
The move won't have any effect on her mochas case because she
doesn't want to appeal conviction.
Donna French says, the destruction of those painful.
Images is the best Christmas present.
Her family has had in over eight and a half years.
This Christmas Kristen would have been 25 years old Alicia
came markson, see, fto News St. Cap.
Of his father can Bernardo, who, you know, the Bonanno family is
a very quiet family, obviously notorious family.
But I've interviewed him and he has a number of things to say
about everything from, you know, the move from Kingston pan and
other things, okay? And you know what?
There's a another element here, that I know that you talked
about. And that's a fact that Russell
Williams family is now talking to the Bernardo family.
That's And it's interesting that they were both kind of in this
wing and, you know, it's strange, because Bernardo and,
and Russell Williams actually traveled the same path.
They live in the same neighborhood in Scarborough,
they went to the same college and I think even crossed the
hallways at the same high school at times.
Same malls and Paul Bernardo is father said that, you know,
while they don't acknowledge that they knew each other and
I'm told that they did know each other by police sources but they
haven't acknowledged it. He He wonders.
If Paul has told him, he wonders if he may have passed by them or
run into him here or there, that kind of thing.
But anyway, the news is that Ken, Bernardo says that he
regularly several times as spoken to marry Elizabeth
Herriman. Who is Russell Williams wife,
when she was going to visit him. Now, Russell Williams is part of
this story has also been moved to Quebec.
I don't know the prison that he's been moved to still trying
to work on that. But he has been moved to Quebec
and the barnardo's and the Williams of guests waiting in
the The waiting room, if you will for their prisoner loved
ones, I've got to know each other and Ken, Bernardo describe
Mary Elizabeth Harriman as a very classy lady.
Now that's not how a lot of people feel about her.
You know, in fact that she sued the opp for damage to her home
when they exercised a warrant to search the home.
I think a lot of people wonder about, you know, how it is that
most of the Treasure Trove of evidence in the Russell Williams
case was found in her home with her there.
And having, you know, The question I would ask her is, did
you never trip over any of it or wonder about bags of, you know,
women's clothing Etc. So pretty interesting.
Look at the underbelly of the penal system here in Canada,
Joe, great introduction to the story.
You know, we would urge our viewers to definitely either
pick up the Toronto Sun or check out the website.
This is this incredible, and I know we're just going to kind of
tip of the iceberg right now. There's a lot more to this and I
know if anybody's gonna do Dig up the dirt.
It's going to be Joe, warmington.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Beat and terrorized his wife, Carla daily.
He was a stalker and a suspect in over 19 rapes.
Gruesome video tape for found in their Suburban home records of
schoolgirls. Kidnapped, drugged, raped and
killed the first victim, none other than Carla's own sister,
Tammy, the 15 year old died, just hours after Carla, drugged
your drink, then she and Paul sexually assaulted Tammy and
left her to drown in her own vomit.
Paul brought their next victim home, 14.
Our old Leslie, mahaffy who was tortured raped and murdered 15
year old Kristen French taste, the same horror both girls
bodies, were found naked but it took a long time before
authorities connected. This perfect couple with one of
the ugliest crimes in Canada Vance.
Murtis was not only Paul bernardo's, best friend since
childhood but he was there. The night.
Paul first met Karla Homolka and was the best man at their
wedding Joanna's, Vans wife. Socialized with the couple and
saw Paul abuse Carla hours, also a friend of the couple and Patty
Seeger was Carla's, aunt and the first one to hear Carla confess.
Now, van you and Paul were best friends.
Did he always have this attraction for young girls?
Yeah, it all started. we'll around when he was 16 when his
mother first told them that your, that's not your real
father and he had a Very rebellious of something happened
to him. It was there some sort of fight
inside him and he wanted always have from then on I like he was
always looking for older women at that time.
Well you know the for his 16th birthday and then when his 16th
birthday cake tin his mother told him.
That's not your real father. This is your real father and
then all of a sudden all of a sudden it was like he wanted to
younger women who wanted to manipulate and Conquer conquer
didn't email. Afraid with like a virgin Farm.
Yes, what is, what did that mean?
Well with that waveform prudently Farms, yelping, friend
be like Burton young virgins that he called the Verne into
sex slavery. Exactly.
You knew about this. Well, are you had mentioned that
a couple of times as a joke? But will you do it seem like a
joke? What was he like in in company
together your silver tongue? You could talk to anybody, any
girl, like like nothing. It was very manipulator friend.
The make you, he tell you what you wanted to hear.
I could leave anything you want to hear.
I don't know when I first met. I was just a very young and
influential and I don't I looked at him as a bigger brother sort
of thing and after that, you know, I wanted to just like Paul
and we have always had a garage, it has the DVD, he give girls
the bigger better deal, he wining and dining in the
beginning and then eventually teacher and cold.
And he get sick and tired of them and and want to go off with
other women. You were there the night that he
met Carla. Yes.
What was that like well we had that night, he had an argument
with a girl from the past so I suggest actually we should go
out and have a coffee and talk about it.
So we went to a Howard Johnson's restaurant near my house and we
pulled in and we walked right up and we saw these two girls
sitting in a booth How old was Carla?
Took her car was 17 and a friend of 17 and Paul was 22, 23 or 24.
Okay. And what happened was that these
girls were staring at us. So we went and sat down and the
girls were, you know, we're very calculated, we're attracted to
him immediately. Yes, there was a magnetism from
right from the start and where and where did that end up that
night in bed about an hour later?
They were an hour later an hour later.
Yeah, we were and Powers. What was 17 years old and ended
up in bed? An hour late.
Exactly. And then the next weekend,
right? She invited you and Paul down to
her town, right? Yes.
And after that, they were inseparable.
Yes. I didn't change it all after we
met her. Did she change at all after she
met him? I actually do get a chance,
you're still a party kind of gun.
He had his, he had two lives, his girlfriend in St.
Catherine, and in Toronto, his party, friends and other wins.
Joanne, you met, eventually you met Carl?
Newer long time? Didn't you know, long time.
Yeah. How would you describe her?
Um, bubbly outgoing. But there Very significant.
Others have said to talk to you about this, he's always afraid
that they'd be afraid that she would say something to me if she
wasn't there. So there's no phone calls.
He was the one that always answer.
The tell me something about what, how he was abusing her?
Yes, she was afraid that she'd was eventually.
Did you know what? I was thinking, you know, when
those signs of a, you know, she was a being abused.
She always, you always said that in public.
Oh yeah. And what.
And what was her reaction when he said the median?
Normal wholly owned by non. She never talked about him in
any negative way, never not until after she was arrested, of
course, before that, right? Oh, I'm very sorry, if he said
anything negative about it, there would be negative
repercussions of living finally, she left after she would be if
she was beaten by a flashes I think you.
And she ended up Patti at your house, didn't you?
And what were they? What were the bruises like on
it? She couldn't walk.
She has all of her legs. Forehead to made me feel her
head, and really squishy. And it was gross.
Like I felt really bad for at that point, but you still love
him. Yes, he did.
And at the same time, she's at your house and what's the first
thing she wants to do when she comes to live with you?
She wants to go look for some men rather to Bruges.
She's got bumps on her head. These squishy Mark hairs coming
out there bald spots in her head and she wants to go chase God.
You think that she was as much of a victim as she's been
portrayed. I don't think so.
Why not? Well she's an actress.
I mean she could turn her emotions off just like that you
know, one moment should be happy and carrying on.
And next thing should be described for no apparent
reason. Like Nikki fooled.
A lot of people. She pulled a lot of people and
so did Paul school, a lot of people and when we come back, we
are going to hear every one of the most Source horrific detail
that work were behind closed doors in that house.
That anyone could possibly imagine.
When we come back, the man who found the naked corpse of one of
Paul, and Karla has tortured young victims,
What? Roger, boy, you're discovered,
Kristen French, his lifeless body, and joining us now on the
phone from Canada. Roger, you at your car one day,
right? I was driving along and I
noticed the combine on my son, a conveyor belt in the bush.
I backed up, get out of my truck and I Walking about 10 12 feet,
I would buy a big tree and I was looking at some stuff in that
and I turned by the treat to my left and I looked down into the
bushes and it looked like a pink carpets to me and I want to go
ahead to go to the combine that if they can be by, come back
towards my truck and I come down on like on the feet and it was a
body like me. And I couldn't believe it.
And I seen the hair was cut real short and by the size of the
feet and their small hands. I didn't know if it was a girl
or a boy. So it's I turned around, I ran
to my truck, and I went to the first farm and I knocked on the
door and young gentleman answered the door.
And I told him to phone the police, I just found the body up
the road, right. How did they treat you once they
once they got your story. Don't think I make story.
They got, they took my shoes for Footprints.
They started you became a suspect in you.
Yeah. I became a suspect as soon as
they they took that my tire tracks, my truck and Prince.
They took My shoe prints and like the boots I was wearing and
then they get come back every week and question me.
I'm stuck back for almost seven months.
Seven months. Yeah.
For almost seven months. I was a suspect until she.
She testified against her, husband until Marla testified
against her husband in court. Yeah.
Okay. Then you are almost, you were a
suspect too, weren't you. It seemed to be because the way
they were questioned me in the beginning.
Because why? Well, they want to know why I
knew so much about him why I thought.
Thought that he was a suspect in the beginning.
Didn't they have any idea about Paul?
They did. They had they had semen sample
and they had was he arrested Paul?
I came forward to the Ontario Provincial Police and I said,
and we sat down, we talked initially for the first three
hours. They couldn't forget that movers
about Paul Bernardo for a long time hadn't there weren't there
rumors about all the rapes that happened in Scotland.
The Scarborough District of Toronto well About two months,
two years. And before Kristen French, there
was Scarborough rapist running around.
And what I have noticed is they put a compensating the paper and
they wrote an FBI profile stating that, he's an anger
retaliatory. First, and think it was Mark
soon as I looked at the picture, I go, that's the Endeavor.
Go to the cops. I went with my brother and my
sister, I went to her house and she said I'll turn him in.
You know, if you because I wanted to remain anonymous.
Towards us. So it my brother's wife went and
did some DNA samples and just sat on the shelf for years.
With twenty two, twenty three hundred other things, they had a
blood sample, semen, samples and everything you needs convicted
me up here samples and it's not there and it rotted on the Shelf
Patty Carla, when she was living with you, after she left Paul
and she was battered and bruised.
She confesses to her part in these killings.
Doesn't she? How does she do?
Do that. Well she didn't really confess
to me what she did. She told me what Paul had done
with Kristen French. She told me that that Paul had
taken her from the church and he killed her and that she took
part and cutting her hair. Well, nothing happy.
She said that Paul took her from her own backyard.
Killed her also. And the only thing that car
really gave her was the, the Halcyon, or whatever it was that
says He is serving life in prison but
with a chance for parole. Carla is serving 12 years that
it how sadistic how brutal were their crime?
Guess what? They even videotape.
All their / versiv app or their perverted act, they videotape.
They even take their involvement in the death of Carlos. 15 year
old sister, the public has never seen the videotape However, we
will meet two people who did to them.
Find out how you can protect your family on the next Maury
Povich Show. We're talking about the
picture-perfect couple Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka the
Ken and Barbie Killers, that's what they're calling them in
Canada, their real-life world of bizarre and sadistic sexual
escapades exposed to an entire country.
Now, Paul and Karla were both arrested for their heinous
crime, only. Paul actually went to trial
Carla, cut a deal. Oh, she got 12 years in prison
before she ever testified against her husband.
Dr. Nancy Lanza clinical psychologist who covered the
trial and Susan's for Tony and Tina danzer were jurors for Paul
bernardo's trial, the Bude, the tape didn't season.
Yes, Could you could you watch them without turning away?
Why tell me about that? The videotapes, I thought, I
knew what I was in for not, that wasn't the case.
They were, they were vicious and horrifying.
You can watch the most gruesome movies, not.
They showed a lot of girls actually being assaulted but
specifically Leslie mahaffy and Kristen French and Tammy Homolka
which would three girls at night and we thought the sexual
assault of Tammy, Homolka, Kristen French, and Leslie,
mahaffy. It's all on videotape to stall
of Paul on Penn college. 15 years ago when I do I'm Karla
Homolka Boulder on video and wasn't there at the time she
turned to the camera, was it. Somebody turn to a camera during
all day? Yes.
Yes there was there were spoken words by both on the timer.
And did it seem that Carla was enjoying herself throughout all
this? And the Tammy Homolka video
tape. It was clear that she wasn't
that she wanted. No part of that.
The lucky Mojave tape Karla Homolka.
Never spoke through the videotaping.
And her reaction was pretty bland.
If you had seen only the videotape of Kristen French with
Paul and Karla, you may have thought differently.
I thought that, you know, what was your impression They were
absolutely horrible and it was very hard because you felt
trapped there was no place to go.
You couldn't get away from the videos and we want them.
Not just once we had to watch him numerous times and as time
went on, even if you weren't watching, you knew what was
coming by the sounds that you are hearing.
Because not only were they raped, they were beaten, it was
just awful. Nobody in the courtroom was
allowed to view the case, except the jury, the judge, the
attorneys, and the defendant Paul, Bernardo watch the tape as
they replace. What did he see himself?
There was numerous times when either the crown of the defense
was pointing something out on a videotape while he was on the
stand and he would say, why don't you play it again?
I didn't catch that and I'm sure you would just for his
enjoyment. What were you going to say on
these tapes were not to be viewed by anybody but you know
by the General Public. Blur.
But they were, everybody heard it.
They played the, the audio version of it and I don't think
in, I don't I can understand the reasoning.
You hurt. You heard the tapes in court.
Didn't you a dr. Lam's.
That's right. And what did they sound like?
Well, when the kids were really being brutalized, he was
screaming for their lives and they were, they were clearly in
distress and there were threats on the pace.
If you don't do this right? I may kill you and these Thief
children were just beside himself.
Not seeing the video is worth been hearing the audio and
seeing the video. I think you hearing the things
that we're going on and being fed were, is more terrifying
than not seeing the video, dr. Lang's you think you could
diagnose Paul Bernardo? Well, it's better.
If you have the benefit of a psychological evaluation where
we've really given test at after, having watched him on the
witness stand and after hearing so many of the things that have
transpired, we can come to some conclusions about what his name.
Could probably was already and what was well, it's strongly
suggested that he had a psychopathic personality, which
is a psychopath, is someone who were the Hallmark is a stunning
lack of conscience and the game is self-gratification at any
cost and his and the continent of the world.
They're the people who rape and plunder and who sometimes going
to kill. And Carla.
Can you can you diagnose her Force?
Well there's a division of thought about that.
It seems as though that she was victimized to some degree and
then after all, she was always gone.
The bruises. We saw the the, the battering
that she took them in. There were photos of that we've
seen. That it is a famous picture of
that. But so obviously in one way she
was a victim. But is there enough to suggest
that she was also? Part of the perpetrator as well.
If you ask me I'm going to say that.
I think she was because a lot of battered women are not exactly
do not exactly prevent the way she presented.
I mean usually the very Meek they don't usually participate
in crime let alone murder or they're not present for it and
if they have any anger or it if any killing goes on its towards
the perpetrator who is the battery status and in this case
she worked in tandem with him and not only that That she could
have drawn the line at in many instances earlier on, but she
chose to continue going on with him and Joanne.
Who knew her? You think of him more as a
victim there. Yeah, to extent, I would have
drunk that you have to draw the line when it comes to your
sister. I mean, she had more than enough
chance to leave after her sister died.
She Coulda left, I mean, battered, wife tri-level, the
battered woman but she didn't. She could have been another of
his victim, but she wasn't. Emotional beings of /.
I was just wondering from Van, I guess, how much you were
friends, how much drugs, or alcohol, or was there?
No, he was just psycho and, oh, yeah, he doesn't drink a lot and
he was also from what I remember.
It's in the last three months before he got arrested.
There's growing marijuana is basement.
Yeah, but when you guys were telling around, you pal around a
long time. Yeah, let me tell me about it.
So Travis was you a drinker wrote.
A fleet drains, all the drugs or no drugs.
Yes, he smoked up a lot. I'll kind of okay.
And I've heard that he also did cocaine because my question was
mostly for Carlos and what kind of family life did?
She has to fix the low self-esteem?
I mean, you don't sleep with a guy after an hour of knowing him
in a coffee shop, what was going on in her family, right?
She was a very close family and everybody like, their parents
lives are revolved around the daughters, but van wasn't Paul
upset because he found out that he wasn't the first to sleep.
Very upset. He couldn't stand it.
It drove him, crazy, right? So we opted to it, we find
another girl who was a virgin, so how does this up my dad's get
involved with the cheapest. I be sick as he is they both
understood to be walking the streets.
I don't think I was supposed to be a Christmas gift for Paul
from her sister. Carla was supposed to give Paul
as a Christmas gift at her 15 year old sister.
Play with okay, large treat to play with.
Do what you want for a few hours.
She was drugged, she was given a drug calcium and it was
determined that she was given an excess amount that would kill
her. She started choking and throwing
up on her own vomit. Is what?
Right now on the phone is a woman named Rachel.
Rachel was stalked by Paul Bernardo at the same time that
they found the body of Leslie mahaffy.
Rachel, even though Paul Bernardo is behind bars for at
least 25 years, you still live in fear, don't you know?
Yes, I do. Why Well, I mean your, when you
fold by someone like that, I mean, you don't know what's
going to happen. If if he's going to get out.
Like, he will be up for parole sometime.
I don't think he'll get out, but still frightening, what
happened? I mean, like, I never got
touched by him or what, but I've been followed twice and I was
just so afraid to get my car because I didn't know what was
going to happen. He followed you twice.
Yes. And this was as we said, around
the time that one of the bodies was found.
What did he look like? How did he acted?
Try to make eye contact with me to do.
Yes he didn't. He was in the car and I was
coming home one night and I was at a late and I can tell
something was staring at you like just staring you down and I
was like, I didn't know this guy.
And I know when he went by me, he just likes miles and I went
by and I didn't know who the guy was.
So I went and then he did a u-turn, he falls me and to my
host and stuff. So all of a sudden, I lost them
and I went into my house is always open the door.
I saw him drives Glory by my by my house.
Stop. Top and it was waiting to meet
like to come towards the car, looks my own stuff, and I just
went in the hole, shut the door and just went to bed and two
weeks later. The same thing happened.
I was going to my husband's house.
Well, my boyfriend time and he falls me again for about an hour
or so, I was going through red lights, I was so scared.
Like I didn't know because and he was the same guy when I went
to my Hut. My boyfriend's house got out of
his car. He parked his car around the
corner, he walked he was two houses down from where I was
staying. And I was in the house by
myself, like, I was to get like if I didn't even Something Told
Me Not to get in my car, which I stayed in my car and tell my
boyfriend, got home. But if I would have went in
there that that minute, he was like, two houses down.
He was coming to the house. He knew where I was so he could
have walked in and yes, because I was in the backyard and
grabbed Yahweh. He the way he grabbed others.
Yes. And that's what I'm scared of
like to have nightmares, you stuff.
And thank you very much. Rachel, everybody thought they
were the perfect couple as you said But why did it take so long
to realize that they were really cold?
Blooded killer No, I've never caught a psychic
at their wedding, the beautiful couple Paul and Karla and we, we
showed pictures of this, you know, they rode through town and
a horse driven, Carriage at home, the bride and groom smile
for the cameras. They videotaped, their sexual
assaults against their young victims seeming to enjoy living
out their perverse. Empty Allen Karen's is the
co-author of the book, deadly innocent Now, this has been the
OJs been the topic of conversation here.
Alan of is it has it been that way in Canada on this trial,
pretty well. There hasn't been any other
topic. It's pretty well, swept the
nation by storm. I mean, we wanted to do this
story during the trial. I mean, you would have thought
we were going to commit one of the great heinous acts of all
time. In the Canadian authorities are
faxing us. A memo saying, please don't do
this we have a gag order out a gag order.
Yeah well it how it is. Actually happens is Karla,
Homolka went to trough pled guilty and was sentenced to 12
years and it was a publication Bond, put on the facts that
would disclose the Kurt trial because it's the authorities
didn't want to jeopardize all barnardo's, Quote, Fair trial.
Some take it, that the authorities really didn't want
to bring too much scrutiny on. The deal is Karla Homolka, cut
with the Authority or the victim's family satisfied.
No, they're not. And I don't think they ever will
be satisfied. They now they're not satisfied
because of what first of all, we have to understand it, Susan,
and Tina, and nothing to do with the sentence given Paul Bernardo
or Karla Homolka, you just come back with a guilt, or innocence
first. And by the way, was that tough
to get tough to reach. We can't speak of deliberations.
Unfortunately got some new Canada that we can do against
the law. But we can talk about it.
No, getting back. Is it?
Because of the sentence? No, it's because they lost two
daughters and tragic circumstances.
And you also have to realize too that, they're not satisfied with
the sentence. That was given Karla Homolka.
Okay. I have a question for the friend
if y'all keep in touch with them.
Do they have any signs of remorse for the action has been
letters? Is that have been published in
the newspaper and the there is No, Remorse from Karla and her
letter, I believe it's one of her friends that her first
sentence being in jail was like, being away at a country club.
If I could interrupt here really Carla is serving 12 years in
prison. That that's not a short amount
of time. But wait a second though, is she
serving 12 years for being poor? That's not true.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
She could serve only for it. Depends, right?
She could be out in full by Canadian law, which allows
parole after one third of sentence.
But given the political climate in Canada and the notoriety of
this case and specifically, the notoriety of Karla Homolka that
isn't going to happen. She might be able to innate.
There's a move afoot by the victims families, to have her
detained as a high risk offender and then she would be in for a
full 12 years and I would highly suspect that that's what's going
to happen, Paul. Bernardo, how long will he
serve? Well, he's life imprisonment,
which means life, he is first crack at Pearl.
All is after 25 years, we don't have consecutive sentences like
you do in the United States in the states.
For example, two murders with next 50 years, in Canada is 25
years old. He could also be called a good
considered a dangerous criminal and therefore using the
governor. Yes, the government is already
proceeding. On those grounds to try and have
them labeled a dangerous offender.
And at that point, he his chances of getting out ever or
minimum, she claimed to be a battered wife, a victim at the
hands of her own. Husband.
But was she a victim or was Karla?
Homolka a willing participant will find out next and get your
questions though. House to their house, was
probably a hundred meters away and let's face it.
Who believes that your next-door neighbor is going to be doing
something like this, this victim.
This is for the friends of the victims.
I don't know. Friends of how you wouldn't have
known being that you were so close to them and you went out
and you went out with Paul before he was arrested.
I had a hearing that can give us an answer.
The cops kept reappearing at that.
It was not, it was not him and I go wait in the car.
The Carla but of course he would go into a rage and says, don't
you interfere with my marriage? And he would, he would put them
on the spot and make them feel. But you've got to understand
that he's the ultimate manipulator.
Complete Predator, he's a complete psychopath and he will
do anything any means. Yeah.
You know, not so much because of this like, like we've completely
done a 360 their lives. I mean, this guy, if I could
kill myself, I mean, how do I have known now, what I need?
Then naturally, he would not sure you go back and play.
Back all the time but you thought you should have known
something. When you didn't, hindsight is
20/20, right? It's totally bogus what
happened? I think we're on the wrong
people here. You don't know where to turn and
who do we? Who knows more information?
Anybody else we assume those people who knew the two
Perpetrator. That's what I don't understand
if, if they, if they have all this independent evidence Allen
over the years of this guy. Why don't we build a cage?
Well, it's not that simple. I mean, it's simple.
Now, starting with Paul, Bernardo and filtering down to
all the things that allegedly, the cops did wrong.
And maybe the friends didn't see.
But it's not that simple. You have to start with the dead
girls and you start with 4 million people as potential
suspects. You don't start with Paul.
Bernardo you start with two or three hundred Suspects, Then
Paul, Bernardo, when bonds sister sister-in-law called him
in was one of the many, many suspect, many hundreds of
suspect he matched the compass of advanced said they took his
DNA sample but you cannot test, 100, 200 possible, suspect DNA
samples in two weeks. It doesn't happen in which
budget restraints of the 1990s. The Ontario government couldn't
do that. That was the problem.
There was enough money, not enough scientists to do the
test. We'll be back right after this.
If you would like to join us in the studio audience, then call
or write for free tickets. It's the Maury Povich Show. 221
West, 26th Street, New York, New York, 10001 were called to 1298
9362 to That license. I did not want to be paid.
They didn't feel and we didn't want to pay them and so they
have their respect and their and their integrity and so therefore
they came just to tell this story and as we leave, maybe we
should find out why you came Why I think yeah I think he's over
there and they don't want to open
exposing. So you look what I have and
that's why you shaking your head, it's the case was so huge
over. So many jurisdictions that the
thing called linkage blindness happened.
In police forces, just didn't realize Wise, if you cases with
the network, do you feel as jurors?
What are your feelings asking? I think everyone involved it a
terrific job in this trial and after the Karla Homolka deal, I
really have to comment about that.
It's important. They didn't have the videotape
that the time of the plea, bargain.
And without those videotapes, I'm not sure that Paul Bernardo
would have been convicted of first-degree murder apparently,
Paul wanted to have his lawyer, can really hold onto the cake
because he thought that in deposition, Carla would say
things that would later be born out to be totally false when the
videotape to show you think you could have convicted him without
this take. So I think we maybe could have
come back with manslaughter, but there's also a thing called the
Scarborough rapist on a Irate garble.
They could have bought those for referring to many, it would have
been in jail for years. Anyways, until we did get the
teeth that there were a case he would have been in jail forever.
Anyways as a dangerous offenders, I want to thank all
of you, so no deal. I think it's probably the first
time that this country has had a detailed look at what this is
all about. And I have a lot of pressure
quickly. This is a very complex case.
It's not a question of black and white and who is psychopath and
he wasn't a psychopath. There's a complete lives of
people to go back to 30 years and you've got to study it very
carefully, to get your answers and even that why it is called
in Canada. The murder of Defense.
I thank you so much. Thank you out there until next
time I'm Erica. Come on each day, thousands of
children are reported missing but more and more kids are being
abducted from shopping malls, learn how to protect your family
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