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The Vancouver True Crime podcast
welcomes you. 

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Thank you so much for listening.
Thank you for the amazing 

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growth. 
Thank you for all the new 

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listeners, the old listeners, a 
loyal listeners. 

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I love you all even my haters 
because you motivate me every 

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single day. 
Got some amazing news. 

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Our numbers on Spotify have now 
reached parity with iTunes. 

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When I first started, this 
podcast first, second year, 

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seventy percent of my download 
listeners was on iTunes and I 

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really appreciate that. 
But Spotify has now reached 

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parity. 
I'm so happy about that. 

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We have listeners and across 
Canada. 

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United States, United Kingdom, 
and Ireland, Australia. 

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And I'm happy to report. 
We're getting a lot, new 

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listeners and Mexico, love you 
very much, Mexico, amazing 

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country, amazing culture, love 
you guys, very much enjoyed 

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spending. 
Lots of times and vacations 

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there. 
I hope to be there soon. 

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Did some analytics on my social 
media numbers on Tick-Tock or 

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exploding have some videos and 
almost reached a million and a 

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very short time. 
I course Instagram which is kind

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of been my main platform 24 
million impressions for 2022. 

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so, It's all thanks to you. 
And I have some even better 

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news. 
With the help. 

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Of some of my followers. 
We've been catching some Bad 

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Dudes, been putting some Bad 
Dudes Behind Bars. 

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We caught a major creep. 
Want to Canada's, most Wanted 

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creeps is now in custody. 
Thanks for to your help and we 

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might be helping in the location
of a young teenage girl who's 

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currently being trafficked more 
to report on that soon. 

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Soon. 
So this is an important platform

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for me is because I said from 
the beginning, I wanted to build

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an organic brand that provided 
Community advocacy. 

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Entertainment, sometimes, even a
little comedy. 

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We all need a little comic 
relief. 

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Provide value. 
I have lots of plans for 2023 

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and, you know, I'm just, you 
know, out of the world grateful 

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and happy to be in the position 
that I'm in and again, none of 

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it's possible without any of 
you. 

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So this series evil intentions 
narcissistic monsters. 

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In this episode, we're going to 
get into dark psychology. 

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I'm going to do more Deep dive 
in the Paul, Bernardo. do if you

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haven't listened to the first 
episode in this series, please 

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listen to that police interview 
with Paul Bernardo because I 

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want to illustrate the, the 
capacity of these narcissist, 

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their, their abilities, Paul 
Bernardo, if you if you 

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understand his crimes, which I 
in part two, I think it 

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illustrates his monstrosity and 
I will be keep doing a deep dive

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in Paul, Bernardo Has Paul. 
Bernardo is a peer narcissistic 

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monster hence the name of the 
series. 

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Here's a man that was capable of
some of the most horrific 

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atrocities in Canadian history. 
And could sit in a police, 

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interrogation room and lie with 
ease and of conviction. 

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Almost put the investigators on 
their back foot. 

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Blaming them saying you're the 
bad guys. 

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You're the liars. 
And that is what you're dealing 

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with when you're dealing with 
these narcissistic monsters 

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course. 
Not all narcissists are our 

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power Bernardo but they all have
the potential because they lack 

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empathy. 
Once you realize that you're 

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dealing with a narcissism 
malignant narcissists, they 

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don't care about you. 
They just want to use you for 

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whatever reason, and this is 
what we're going to get into. 

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Before I start the podcast, I 
want to talk a little bit about 

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myself. 
If you listen to my podcast from

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the beginning, I've been always 
open about sharing my life and 

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what I've been going through my 
UPS. 

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My Downs, the embarrassing 
moments of fighting moments, my 

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tragedies and I'm in an open 
book. 

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I I make myself accessible. 
You can contact me directly 

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anytime, Want either through my 
Facebook Messenger my Instagram 

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and I'm always willing to talk 
to everybody and anybody even 

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people that want to challenge me
on my points of you and I have 

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had that I've had to deal with 
every type of person. 

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Since starting this podcast, you
know, I've interacted with 

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hundreds of thousands of people 
through my various platforms as 

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sometimes, it's just comment. 
Sometimes it's direct messages, 

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sometimes it's phone calls. 
Some Times, it's emails. 

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And I've always make myself 
available So I wanted to talk a 

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little bit. 
I'm not going to get too much 

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into the details, but the last 
year has been pretty challenging

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through some personal stuff and 
things I've been witnessing and 

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from 2020. 
When my wife died I had a lot of

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post-traumatic stress that I 
work through. 

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I went and saw a very prominent 
psychologist and psychiatrist 

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who helped me get through a lot 
of trauma and kind of get back 

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in touch with my emotions. 
Ins and be able to be the person

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that I'm that sitting here doing
this podcast today because it 

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was important for me, not to be 
a damaged broken person, because

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I still have small children, and
I have a lot of goals and 

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ambitions. 
That I wish to do. 

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So, I wanted to talk about last 
year due to some of the trauma 

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and this horrible, you know, 
stuff I witnessed. 

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I had a lot of post-traumatic 
stress and sometimes I probably 

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came across kind of little 
erratic, maybe a little neurotic

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and stressed out and and baby. 
Maybe some people who talked to 

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me a lot would probably 
recognize it but I feel a lot 

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better. 
Better. 

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I feel a lot better. 
I feel a lot more clear-headed. 

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I feel a lot more focused and I 
am sharing this because a lot of

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people have mental health issues
and specially in Vancouver. 

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My hometown for whatever reason.
This seems to be the mental 

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health capital of Canada and 
I've suffered from mental 

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health. 
I've suffered from anxiety, I 

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suffer from depression suffer 
from post-traumatic stress. 

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And the way that post-traumatic 
stress affects me is I kind of 

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shut down. 
And sometimes I might appear a 

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little an erotic speak fast, 
repeat my words, sometimes 

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stumble on Words, make mistakes 
on Words and and it's like my 

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head is spinning. 
And then I have to slow myself 

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down. 
So I'm telling you it's 

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important to work on yourself 
and how I deal with my 

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post-traumatic stress, is I try 
to First recognize that I'm 

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going through it, recognize the 
symptoms. 

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It's slightly kind of similar in
my case 10 xiety. 

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But a little bit different if 
that makes sense. 

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And sometimes, you know to help 
with post-traumatic stress, I 

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was using a lot of marijuana 
because it's, you know, I don't 

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really drink. 
I drink very light, I drink 

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maybe sometimes when I go out 
I'll have a few drinks. 

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But I don't I'm not a heavy 
drinker, I'm not a regular 

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drinker. 
So I was smoking a lot of weed 

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to help me get through the 
post-traumatic stress but I'm 

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right now, I've quit weed 
because I want to be very clear 

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headed. 
I want to be very sharp Taiwan 

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to be very dialed in doing these
podcasts. 

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I've done a lot and lot of 
writing, I probably have written

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just in the last few days. 
I probably written probably 

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about seven thousand words. 
It's on this new narcissistic 

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podcast series and Marijuana 
helps. 

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But it also hurts, if that makes
sense. 

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It helps with the symptoms of 
post-traumatic stress. 

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For me, it helped me sleep. 
It helped me kind of just kind 

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of dull the, the symptoms I'm 
not on any medication, I don't 

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take antidepressants. 
I don't take any anti-anxiety 

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medication, so I was 
self-medicating with marijuana. 

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And again, I believe that 
marijuana is better than 

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drinking everyday. 
It's, you know, it's I think 

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it's a better option and I think
it's also possible a good choice

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for me before harm reduction, if
you're using heavier drugs, 

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right? 
I'm just saying, these are this 

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options but again, everything 
has a time and place and I'm not

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here to judge people for 
whatever their circumstances, 

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but I just wanted to share more.
What was been going on with me 

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behind the scenes? 
Now, you know again I'm in a 

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very good place clear-headed. 
I haven't smoked any weed in a 

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bit. 
I'm sleeping better. 

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I'm having dreams. 
Again, which is nice. 

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The one of the things that I 
found with cannabis, I don't I 

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don't really get into a deep REM
sleep, and I'm just having 

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really crazy Lucid vivid dreams 
again, which is kind of cool. 

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I enjoy that I enjoy. 
I feel a lot more articulate, I 

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feel sharper and I feel like I'm
getting more stuff done. 

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So I just wanted to share that 
with you guys because you know, 

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you guys are important to me and
it's important for me to be kind

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of an open book with With with 
you guys and kind of share my 

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journey, making this podcast, 
this podcast started with the 

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most humble beginnings. 
I was in a kind of a crossroad. 

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I was my background is corporate
sales. 

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I did lot of startups and 
Business Development. 

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It was getting more and more 
stressful type of work. 

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The type of type of 
opportunities are getting. 

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We're getting more and more kind
of, elaborate and stressful. 

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Paid good money at it, the money
was good but the hours were 

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long, really long hours. 
Some days, I'd some weeks I'd 

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worked 90-hour weeks as 
deadlines and putting out fires 

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dealing with customers. 
You know it took a toll on me. 

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I gained a lot of weight because
I'm eating out all the time 

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eating out and food fairs eating
out and you know, cut the you 

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know, client dinners and getting
invited to this and that and 

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you're always grabbing food on 
the go. 

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And I got pretty heavy at my 
heaviest. 

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I weighed almost At 280 pounds. 
I had a lot of joint issues. 

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I had a lot of body pain and I 
did not like the way I looked. 

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Every time I looked in the 
mirror I was like hey that's on 

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me. 
Who the who's that guy? 

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So happy to report right now. 
As you're talking to me, I weigh

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about 220 pounds. 
I'm six foot one and I'm 

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probably the leanest I've been 
in a long time. 

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I'm athletic. 
I'm active and it's important 

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for me to be that way because I 
have small children. 

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And I have to keep up with them 
little there have little feet 

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but they can run fast. 
So I want to be around for them 

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and that helped a lot too, 
because your self-image is 

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important. 
People will try to say it isn't 

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but it is the way you look the 
way you feel is important. 

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It's important to like the way 
you look and like the way you 

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feel. 
So I'm happy about that. 

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Those are good things and I 
worked very hard at weight was 

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very difficult to take off, but 
it did come off. 

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And I'm just saying, I'm always 
here to encourage people. 

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If anyone ever wants to reach 
out to me about Stress, and 

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Anxiety, weight loss, all those 
things, I'm always available to 

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help people because that's, 
that's what the whole platform 

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is about. 
It's about Community. 

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It's about helping everybody and
not being a community that looks

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out for each other dangerous. 
Predators your mental health 

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your well-being. 
So again, thank you for 

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listening to that. 
I just wanted to share a little 

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bit about what's been going on 
with me. 

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Everything I that I'm dealing 
with is Being handled. 

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I have I have a lot of excellent
people that thanks to the 

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platform because of this 
platform built. 

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I have met some truly amazing 
people people that are truly 

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spectacular than I'm so grateful
to have in my life and if you're

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a cool person, I'm be always 
happy to meet you too. 

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So let's get on with the show. 
So we're going to talk about 

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this. 
We're going to I want to get 

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into manipulation styles of 
manipulation. 

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And what keeps a person in an 
abusive relationship. 

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We're going to talk not 
necessary in this episode and 

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this episode I'm going to share 
I'm going to I found some 

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amazing more clips of Paul. 
Bernardo, I found one, I'm Karla

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Homolka. 
I'm going to put those in the 

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end. 
But I the port is in this 

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series. 
I'm going to focus on three 

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real. 
Distinct. 

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Terrible monsters. 
Paul Bernardo Canadian one of 

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the worst. 
Serial killers in Canada 

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Clifford Olson. 
One of the worst monster a 

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serial killer narcissistic piece
of shit from BC. 

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The Beast of BC who murdered 
children for his pleasure and 

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got a Payday for it, which is so
disgusting. 

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And then, of course, Ted Bundy, 
who I feel is a pure I think a 

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narcissist very manipulative and
what these three have in common 

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is their ability to manipulate 
at a master level. 

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All three of them were able to 
manipulate people, and 

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manipulate the system. so, 
criminal and deviant psychology 

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is a study of criminal and 
deviant Behavior, including 

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psychological, motivations, and 
methods used by criminals and 

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other deviant individuals in 
this podcast, like I said, it's 

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a true crime podcast primarily 
and I will be profiling, you 

233
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know, Serial killers and Cults 
and other evil people, but in 

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this series, I'm more interested
in the psychology, the 

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intentions and the manipulation 
that they use. 

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So it's important to note that 
it's important to note that dark

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psychology is not a form of 
field of study, and it's not 

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recognized by most academic 
communities. 

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It's not always used for 
negative purposes, many of the 

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concepts and techniques fall 
Under the Umbrella of dark 

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psychology can use for the 
Positive Purpose of therapy and 

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personal development. 
Like, for example NLP. 

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There are some people that 
really believe that NLP is like 

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this most manipulative tool. 
I've used NLP in the business 

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world for personal development. 
It just makes me look at how 

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language is used and it makes me
use language more effectively. 

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So this thought I'd add that in 
there. 

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Let's go into red flags, let's 
talk about red flags, red flags 

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because it all comes down to 
relationships, right? 

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You start a relationship, you 
get into a relationship, 

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everything is good. 
People always talk about the red

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flags. 
I saw these red flags that you 

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ignore the red flags or when the
relationship is bad. 

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That's a first similar words 
there. 

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Any red flag. 
So, red flags is something we 

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hear a lot about talked about. 
Here are the few red Red flags. 

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That may indicate that you are 
being manipulated. 

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Buy a new person when you're 
dating. 

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They can be overly complementary
or affectionate early on if 

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someone showering you with 
excessive compliments or 

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affection, early on, it could be
a red flag that they're trying 

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to manipulate. 
You sometimes people are just, 

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you know, maybe their head over 
heels when I was young and kind 

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of dumb. 
If you listen to the early 

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podcast, I did about Elizabeth 
the 35 year. 

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Stripper. 
I dated when I was 25 I was 

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overly affection complimentary. 
I wasn't love-bombing her. 

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I was just head over heels 
because you know I just was very

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smitten and kind of naive and 
you know kind of dumb back to 

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the red flags. 
They ask you for personal 

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information or favors before you
know them. 

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Well If someone is asking you 
for personal information or 

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favors before you know them, 
well it could be a sign, they're

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00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,700
trying to use that information 
to control and manipulate you. 

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There are cases where it's like,
they are digging in your past, 

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maybe how many people you slept 
with or things like that. 

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And then in an argument they 
call you a name and because he 

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slept with so many people, are 
they use that to guilt you? 

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You know, that's a, an e-zine 
example. 

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They rushed the relationship. 
If someone is trying to move the

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00:18:06,300 --> 00:18:10,400
relationship forward at an 
accelerated speed, it could be a

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00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,400
sign that they're trying to 
manipulate you and making a 

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00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,900
commitment before you're ready. 
I believe that's a very strong 

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00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:21,800
red flag. 
The isolate you from your 

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00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,000
friends and family that is a 
very common. 

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00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,100
And in my opinion, a very 
serious red flag. 

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00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:31,000
You see that in calls, you see 
that narcissistic abuse, that's 

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00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,500
something you. 
Over and over again, they 

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00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:37,500
isolate you from other people 
that could have influence on you

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00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:41,900
family members friends, maybe 
your community. 

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Maybe you're from another 
country. 

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They try to get you to move to 
another country or move across 

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00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,900
the country where he have no 
family or friends so they can 

294
00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:56,300
just isolate you and have full 
control over, you will get more 

295
00:18:56,300 --> 00:19:00,100
into isolation a lot because 
isolation comes up to me 

296
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,200
isolation. 
In my opinion is one of the 

297
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,900
biggest red flags. 
They make you question your own 

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00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:13,100
thoughts or memory. 
If someone's trying to make you 

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00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:15,300
question your own thoughts and 
memory. 

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00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,600
This could be a sign of 
manipulation that's also called 

301
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,400
gaslighting. 
We're going to get really deep 

302
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:25,600
in the gas lighting with the 
narcissistic expert that I plan 

303
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,500
to do some shows with that's 
going to be one of our first 

304
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:32,100
shows is on gaslighting because 
that's something I've I've had a

305
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:34,800
lot of experience on the 
receiving end of, and it's 

306
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,200
pretty hurtful and it's pretty 
destructive, it, really? 

307
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,800
It really does mess with your 
head when it's done, very 

308
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:45,600
effectively, they use guilt and 
shame, and fear to control you 

309
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,700
again. 
Oh, you slept with so many 

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00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:52,000
people write make you feel 
guilty about it, your lack 

311
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,600
morals, he lack ethics, right 
control. 

312
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,100
You, if someone's trying to make
you feel guilty ashamed or 

313
00:19:58,100 --> 00:20:01,500
fearful in order to control you,
it could be a sign that they're 

314
00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:04,300
really Trying to manipulate you.
They're trying to make you 

315
00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:08,800
dependent on them again. 
Going back to the isolation. 

316
00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:13,100
Someone making you dependent on 
them for for your emotional or 

317
00:20:13,100 --> 00:20:16,900
material needs? 
That is a red flag that they're 

318
00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:23,200
trying to manipulate you We're 
going to get more deeper into 

319
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:24,800
this. 
I'm kind of just kind of trying 

320
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,400
to give a broad range of 
manipulation because it's a very

321
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,300
complex topic. 
And as time goes on and as we 

322
00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:35,600
kind of peel the layer of 
onions, we're going to get 

323
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,300
really get deeper in this, but 
here we go again. 

324
00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:42,700
So here's a question or a 
question. 

325
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:49,900
Question. 
Why do people stay and toxic 

326
00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:52,600
abusive relationship? 
That's a common thing. 

327
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,600
Why didn't you leave? 
Why didn't you leave? 

328
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,500
Why didn't you leave? 
Didn't you see the red flags? 

329
00:20:59,700 --> 00:21:03,400
Why would you stay in such an 
abusive toxic relationship? 

330
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,600
There's a number of reasons why 
people stay in toxic and abusive

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00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,800
relationships. 
Here's a few examples. 

332
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:15,300
How about fear? 
Many people who are in abusive 

333
00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:17,400
relationships or afraid of their
partners? 

334
00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:23,600
In domestic violence situations.
They may fear for their own 

335
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,500
safety. 
If they try to leave low 

336
00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:32,700
self-esteem, sometimes over time
through isolation, through the 

337
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:36,500
gas, lighting through the other 
tactics that we're going to talk

338
00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:41,900
about and learn about together. 
Their self-esteem 0 du dudud. 

339
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:47,700
So because our self-esteem 
because their self-esteem is so 

340
00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:50,000
eroded. 
They believe they're not worthy 

341
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,800
of a better relationship or they
may believe they are the blame 

342
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,900
for for the partners Behavior 
through the manipulation Here's 

343
00:21:59,900 --> 00:22:04,200
a big one and I believe this 
happens a lot in Vancouver my 

344
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,600
hometown because this city is 
possibly one of the most 

345
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,000
expensive cities to operate in 
for a variety of reasons wages 

346
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:18,000
are typically lower than other 
parts of the country yet. 

347
00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:21,300
It's more expensive than other 
parts of the country. 

348
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:28,500
So Financial dependent, I 
remember a study, I read, it was

349
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:36,000
like, 26 percent of couples 
would separate if it wasn't for 

350
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,900
the financial dependents, 
sharing a house, sharing a 

351
00:22:38,908 --> 00:22:43,300
mortgage sharing bills, maybe if
you had to leave, you're not 

352
00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:45,100
going to build live in such a 
nice place. 

353
00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:49,400
So Financial dependent is a huge
reason why people stay and very 

354
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,900
toxic destructive relationships.
Some people stay in toxic 

355
00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:56,700
abusive relationship because 
they are financially dependent 

356
00:22:56,700 --> 00:22:59,700
on the partner and cannot Afford
to leave. 

357
00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:04,700
And there's love some people 
stay in abusive relationship 

358
00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:07,800
because they're still in love 
with their partner and they hope

359
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,800
they will change. 
When Alexandra, my late wife was

360
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,300
going through her mental health 
issues and I didn't quite 

361
00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:18,900
understand all of the complexity
of her mental health. 

362
00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:23,100
I bade a podcast about it, that 
really breaks down her 

363
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:26,800
deterioration of her mental 
health and that was my reason 

364
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,000
to, I was hoping with the right 
help, she would go back to be Be

365
00:23:31,300 --> 00:23:34,300
the old Alexandra that I met and
loved. 

366
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,800
So sometimes people stay in 
abusive relationship because 

367
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,400
they still love their partner 
and they hope they will change 

368
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,200
hopelessness people. 
In abusive relationships, may 

369
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,700
feel hopeless, they feel there's
no way out of the situation 

370
00:23:51,100 --> 00:23:54,700
through the gas lighting through
the manipulation through the 

371
00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:58,000
abuse, just being chipped away, 
chipped away. 

372
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,700
And I've seen relations like 
that were one of the partners, 

373
00:24:00,900 --> 00:24:04,300
Has the dead eye looks because 
they just had literally 

374
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,300
everything, their self-worth or 
self-esteem taken away from 

375
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:14,200
them, lack of support. 
Some people may not have support

376
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:21,000
systems through the isolation 
because people can rely on help 

377
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:25,300
to leave the relationship. 
So lack of support. 

378
00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:29,400
Maybe their family members are 
toxic, maybe in sometimes, these

379
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,000
people are so abusive. 
I've seen this before were 

380
00:24:33,100 --> 00:24:37,700
there's a couple in a 
relationship that partner that's

381
00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:40,800
toxic has convinced the other 
side of the family, how 

382
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,600
wonderful they are. 
And everyone saying, oh, he's so

383
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,000
awesome. 
You can't, you know, so they 

384
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,200
feel that there's no way out 
because no one's going to 

385
00:24:48,208 --> 00:24:51,200
support their decision to leave 
the relationship that there's 

386
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,100
kids and there's other 
responsibilities, it can 

387
00:24:55,100 --> 00:25:00,100
compound that as well. 
Sometimes it's cultural and 

388
00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:02,900
religious. 
Reasons and some culture, some 

389
00:25:02,900 --> 00:25:06,200
religious backgrounds and maybe 
pressure to stay in the marriage

390
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,200
or relationship, no matter the 
circumstances. 

391
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,400
So it's important to understand 
that leaving an abusive 

392
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,200
relationship can be difficult 
and dangerous. 

393
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:19,400
It's important. 
If you are currently in a 

394
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:24,100
situation like this, it's 
important to have a safety Plan 

395
00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:27,200
before. 
Leaving seek professional help, 

396
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,700
from counselors, therapists and 
support. 

397
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,000
Groups seek help. 
Get a plan. 

398
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,300
But again, it's your life. 
It's worth saving. 

399
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:47,500
Crores of persuasion also known 
as brain washing, it refers to 

400
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:52,500
the use of intense. 
Psychological pressure such as 

401
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:56,500
prolong, isolation sleep, 
deprivation, and emotional 

402
00:25:56,500 --> 00:25:59,800
manipulation. 
It's to change the individuals, 

403
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,500
belief and behavior. 
Here are a few forms, of course 

404
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:07,500
of persuasion that can be use, 
isolation, we're back to 

405
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:11,200
isolation. 
Again, isolation is really a 

406
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:17,900
powerful and very effective way 
to control someone. 

407
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,700
The individual is isolated from 
their friends or family and any 

408
00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:27,500
other sources of support making 
them more dependent on the group

409
00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:32,300
in case, if it's a cult or a 
person exercising control sleep,

410
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,300
Deprivation, the individuals 
kept awake for long periods of 

411
00:26:36,308 --> 00:26:39,800
time, making them more 
susceptible to manipulation and 

412
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:45,600
less able to resist the partners
or group if it's a cold demands.

413
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:50,200
So sleep deprivation is 
something I suffered from when 

414
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:55,800
my kids were really small, my 
wife's Health deteriorated, I 

415
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,000
had to take on the kind of the 
heavy lifting of that. 

416
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:04,200
So I'd be up all night because 
my Daughter would not sleep. 

417
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,700
And then I was also task of 
having to run the household and 

418
00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:15,400
I was no 1000% what it's like 
and what it feels like to be in 

419
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:24,700
a sleep, deprivation mindset, 
Physical and emotional abuse. 

420
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,100
When the person is subjected to 
physical and emotional abuse, 

421
00:27:30,100 --> 00:27:34,800
such as humiliation harassment, 
intimidation it breaks down 

422
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,600
their sense of self, making them
more compliant. 

423
00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:46,100
Repetition indoctrination, also 
known as nagging. 

424
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:53,600
The individual is exposed to 
repetitious messages and ideas 

425
00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:57,600
that are reinforced through 
constant repetition and 

426
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,500
reinforcement. 
So someone saying over and over 

427
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:03,700
it works. 
Someone does you know saying the

428
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:06,000
same thing over and over and 
over? 

429
00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:08,600
You're no good. 
You're stupid. 

430
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:11,700
You'll never be anything. 
Just constant. 

431
00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:16,300
Just chipping away at you. 
It definitely has a terrible 

432
00:28:16,300 --> 00:28:19,000
effect on your Mental health and
your well-being. 

433
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,100
Confessional or public 
self-criticism, individuals, and

434
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,000
courage to confess their sins. 
Maybe this is more in a cult or 

435
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,000
a. 
I've had sometimes situations 

436
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,100
like this and really toxic 
workplace has one. 

437
00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:46,300
Really bizarre circumstance is I
was working this corporate 

438
00:28:46,300 --> 00:28:50,700
environment, the very toxic 
fairy awful. 

439
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:54,300
That job went from being amazing
to being absolutely terrible. 

440
00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:57,100
The highwomen, Hired. 
These real Hotshot Consultants 

441
00:28:57,100 --> 00:29:00,500
that came in that were going to 
make this company into 100 

442
00:29:00,500 --> 00:29:06,100
million dollar company that they
owners the directors and the sea

443
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:08,200
level. 
Sweet got sold on this pipe 

444
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,100
dream and it was like some crazy
indoctrination, like and one 

445
00:29:13,100 --> 00:29:15,700
part of it, you know, after 
being put through this, horrible

446
00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:20,800
Gauntlet of this retraining, we 
each even though we all hated 

447
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,900
it, and none of it worked, and 
none of it was effective. 

448
00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:26,000
The only people, That got 
anything of it. 

449
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,000
Was these Consultants at end up,
getting a ton of money. 

450
00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:33,500
We each individually had to go 
in front of the rest of the 

451
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:36,100
company were talking, a hundred 
employees, hundred, plus 

452
00:29:36,100 --> 00:29:40,800
employees until how wonderful 
the training was, and how we're 

453
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,800
grateful, and how we're going to
use it. 

454
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,000
And we're going to be, so it was
insane. 

455
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,200
It was totally insane. 
It pissed me off and I left the 

456
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,900
company soon after that. 
But I could imagine it being 

457
00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:54,500
that type of technique being 
used and others. 

458
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,800
Circumstances and how awful it 
would be? 

459
00:29:59,300 --> 00:30:03,700
Guilt tripping. 
There's a classic individuals 

460
00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:08,700
made to feel guilty and ashamed 
and responsible for other 

461
00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:14,100
people's actions or feelings. 
That's pretty self-explanatory. 

462
00:30:14,500 --> 00:30:16,300
Love-bombing. 
We're going to get into 

463
00:30:16,300 --> 00:30:19,300
love-bombing love-bombing comes 
up again, it's a very diverse 

464
00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:21,400
topic. 
I want to really talk about this

465
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,600
topic especially with my 
narcissistic abuse expert, we're

466
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,600
going to probably do an entire 
show on love-bombing. 

467
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:34,500
That could be our valentimes 
show, a person or group 

468
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,800
exercising control. 
Showering, the individuals, 

469
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,700
excessive attention, affection. 
And privileges already to build 

470
00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:47,500
trust and create a sense of 
belonging and one of the podcast

471
00:30:47,500 --> 00:30:50,000
I think it was Vancouver the 
beautiful and ugly I think was 

472
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,200
part 6. 
I talked about this crazy 

473
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,100
Christian called they definitely
use love-bombing on me. 

474
00:30:56,300 --> 00:31:01,300
I remember when I first attended
one of the Has every attractive 

475
00:31:01,300 --> 00:31:05,200
woman was a big congregation, 
just surrounded me, just all, 

476
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,100
we're so happy to have you mark 
all the affection and hugs, and,

477
00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:13,900
you know, back rubs and, you 
know, almost like they were 

478
00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:17,000
fighting over me and just like, 
yeah, it's pretty effective. 

479
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,700
So, if you coming from a place 
of low self-esteem, or let's 

480
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:23,800
say, your last relationship was 
really abusive. 

481
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,500
Let's say you went, let's say 
this. 

482
00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:28,400
You were in a relationship with 
some person that was a Vana. 

483
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,200
Avoidant never gave you 
compliments. 

484
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,200
Never told you how good your 
look never did anything for you.

485
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,400
This ignored you. 
Or you are a child of a 

486
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:46,100
neglectful, parent and all son. 
You meet someone or someone's 

487
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,400
jet. 
Just tell you how awesome you 

488
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,100
are, and gifts and money and 
clothes and hugs, affection, 

489
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:57,400
sex, whatever it is, it can be 
pretty powerful, it can be very 

490
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:03,800
intoxicating and it could be 
like a drug mind control the 

491
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,800
people or person exercising 
control using various 

492
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,800
psychological. 
Cool techniques, such as 

493
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,400
hypnosis brainwashing and other 
forms of manipulation to control

494
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,400
the thoughts and behaviors and 
emotions of individuals. 

495
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,700
So hypnotherapy is something I 
use myself. 

496
00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:30,500
I do hit more therapy and but it
definitely, you know, in a dark 

497
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:34,700
way I could see it being very 
effective for mind control. 

498
00:32:34,700 --> 00:32:37,500
Absolutely. 
As someone who's very skilled at

499
00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:42,000
it, one of the series I want to 
do is on Charlie Manson. 

500
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,400
And I remember watching a story 
about Charlie, Manson, who was 

501
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:51,700
so good at hypnotherapy or 
Hitman hypnosis, He was 

502
00:32:51,700 --> 00:32:56,700
hypnotizing people in jail, to 
give them the effects that they 

503
00:32:56,700 --> 00:32:58,700
were on drugs. 
So if they say he would say to a

504
00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:01,200
person, hey you want to smoke a 
joint, want to feel like what? 

505
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,500
It's like to smoke a joint and 
he would hypnotize them, and 

506
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:06,400
they would feel like they just 
smoked a joint or they took 

507
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,700
heroin. 
But for one person, it didn't 

508
00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:12,700
work because they never used 
heroin. 

509
00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:15,700
So it didn't work, but just 
shows you how powerful 

510
00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:19,900
hypnotherapy as and from a very 
skilled practitioner, it can be 

511
00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:21,000
used for good. 
Good. 

512
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,800
Or it can use be used for evil 
just like any tool. 

513
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,900
Fire can heat your food up and 
fire could burn your house down.

514
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:33,600
So emotional abuse can be 
incredibly damaging and like I 

515
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,600
talked about in the very 
beginning of the beginning of 

516
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,100
this series about emotional 
abuse and we're going to get 

517
00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:41,700
into emotional because we're 
going to probably do whole shows

518
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:47,500
of emotional abuse. 
And in my opinion, emotional 

519
00:33:47,500 --> 00:33:51,700
abuse for me is a lot more 
damaging Than Physical, because 

520
00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:54,600
I can handle myself in a fight. 
Even if I lose, I've been in 

521
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,500
fights where I won. 
I lost. 

522
00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:59,400
They sock when you lose it. 
Takes time to heal. 

523
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,000
You lick your wounds and you 
move on. 

524
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,400
Emotional abuse, messes with 
your mind. 

525
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,200
It messes with your whole lens 
of how you see and interact with

526
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,500
the world. 
It erodes, your self-worth 

527
00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:12,900
roads, your self-esteem, and it 
makes it hard to do the little 

528
00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:14,900
things and if you can't do this,
Little things. 

529
00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:18,500
You can't do the big things, 
simple as that. 

530
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:26,199
So, if you've been experiencing 
emotional, abuse or any of the 

531
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:29,100
things you talked about, it's 
important that you get help. 

532
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:32,400
It's important to understand. 
First of all, what's going on, 

533
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,500
if you can get a therapist 
accounts or a trusted family 

534
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:40,199
member or friend, it's important
to build support systems. 

535
00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:43,000
That's the best way to get out 
of things as first you have to 

536
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,900
recognize what's going going on.
And then you build a group of 

537
00:34:46,900 --> 00:34:50,199
support therapist, family 
members, trusted people in your 

538
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:55,900
community and do what's best for
you to get help some of these 

539
00:34:55,900 --> 00:34:57,600
things. 
Simple, simple thing is 

540
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,300
sometimes it's just getting a 
good night sleep, getting your 

541
00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:04,300
rest eating well, when I was 
going through my stuff with 

542
00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:06,700
Alexandra's, her mental health 
was deteriorating. 

543
00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:11,600
I started to work on my health 
because I knew the stress of it 

544
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,200
was going to kill me. 
I had panic attacks. 

545
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,200
I have Had stress this 
unbelievable because I didn't 

546
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,000
understand what was going on. 
If you listen to the podcast, 

547
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,300
it's pretty self-explanatory. 
But one of the things I started 

548
00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:25,000
doing was really taking care of 
myself. 

549
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,700
Start taking supplements and 
vitamins try to sleep as much as

550
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:31,700
I can and I started exercising 
and I started eating better. 

551
00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:35,200
And I already started my weight 
loss process during that, and 

552
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:42,200
that saved it. 
So I want to end this and then 

553
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:47,200
I'm going to add on a bunch of 
Clips I found Paul Bernardo 

554
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,600
related because again I'm using 
Paul Bernardo and that's it 

555
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,900
because one its monstrous it is 
a true kind podcast and I want 

556
00:35:53,900 --> 00:36:02,100
people to remember what he did. 
So it's not forgotten and also I

557
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:06,900
want to illustrate again the 
capabilities of a nurse's 

558
00:36:06,900 --> 00:36:09,300
monster what they're capable. 
All of the damage they can 

559
00:36:09,300 --> 00:36:12,200
inflict. 
So that's why Paul Bernardo and 

560
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,600
this series is my poster boy for
narcissistic monsters, but 

561
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:22,000
before I end things, I want to 
talk about common words and 

562
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:27,200
phrases used by manipulators, 
these are common phrases that 

563
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,200
you'll hear. 
So when you recognize it. 

564
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,500
So let's say right now, you're 
listening to this and someone's 

565
00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:35,000
telling you this over and over 
and over again. 

566
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,800
Trust me, you're being 
manipulated. 

567
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,900
And when you're being 
manipulated, it's never for your

568
00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:42,800
own good. 
So here are the common phrases. 

569
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,400
We're going to, I'm going to 
read a bunch of them. 

570
00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:50,800
I know what's best for you. 
Trust me. 

571
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:57,100
It's for your own good. 
You're just too sensitive. 

572
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,300
Oh, you're overreacting. 
You're imagining thing. 

573
00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:07,300
That's all in your head. 
I'm doing this for you. 

574
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:14,200
Hey, you owe me. 
You should be grateful if you 

575
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,200
really loved me, you would dot 
dot. 

576
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:22,300
Dot you're being paranoid. 
You're being irrational. 

577
00:37:23,300 --> 00:37:26,100
I'm the only one that 
understands you. 

578
00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:29,500
I'm the only one that cares for 
you. 

579
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:35,300
I'm the only one. 
Who can help you oh, it's not 

580
00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:39,800
that bad. 
You're just being difficult. 

581
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,600
You're being paranoid. 
Now, understand though, 

582
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,800
sometimes in contacts, these can
be in a in a context where 

583
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,400
you're not being manipulated. 
But what I'm saying with me? 

584
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,300
What what I mean by being? 
If they're saying this commonly,

585
00:37:57,500 --> 00:38:00,800
when you have a concern, you're 
trying to address something. 

586
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,500
You're trying to say or you're 
not happy with something. 

587
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:09,000
So it's all in your head. 
It's not that bad. 

588
00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:12,000
You're just being difficult, 
you're just being paranoid. 

589
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,300
I'd you're just imagining thing 
and listen to your gut feeling, 

590
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:19,600
listen to how you feel. 
That's important. 

591
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,400
It's important that you feel 
strong about your inner voice. 

592
00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:27,400
So I'm going to leave it here. 
I'm going to be keep making 

593
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,700
podcasts, have so much material.
I'm going to do my best to get 

594
00:38:31,700 --> 00:38:36,000
these out each and every day I 
that I can amongst all my other 

595
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,000
responsibilities. 
But this is an important series 

596
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,300
and like I said I'm very excited
and having some guests. 

597
00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:45,300
Come on on. 
This and I really appreciate all

598
00:38:45,300 --> 00:38:49,900
the support. 
I really am grateful that with 

599
00:38:49,900 --> 00:38:53,000
together. 
We built a platform that's doing

600
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,800
some good stuff. 
We're putting some bad guys away

601
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:01,400
and we are making a difference 
in our community and none of it 

602
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,700
is possible without you. 
Thank you from the bottom of my 

603
00:39:04,700 --> 00:39:18,400
heart. 
It was one week ago today that 

604
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,000
st. 
Catherine's teen Kristen French 

605
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,200
disappeared today. 
Niagara Regional Police say they

606
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,800
have received hundreds of calls 
and to see if he was Tom Hayes. 

607
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,300
Reports, one caller witnessed 
the suspect's car, leave the 

608
00:39:30,300 --> 00:39:33,800
area where French was believed 
to have been abducted or 

609
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,100
assistance can inspector. 
Vince Bevin says, his officers 

610
00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:40,500
are taking up the 60 calls a 
minute callers are providing 

611
00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:43,900
information, not only about 
vehicles but people as well. 

612
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:48,300
All of these tips are useful and
Hopefully, we'll continue police

613
00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:50,600
say, they have received 
information saying that the 

614
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,800
cream-colored Camaro or Firebird
left the parking lot of the 

615
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,200
Grace Lutheran Church and headed
east along Lynn Well, Road. 

616
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,400
The witness says the car was 
driving erratically towards 

617
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,000
Geneva Road. 
Meanwhile at Holy Cross. 

618
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,700
Secondary school today. 
Students, started a green ribbon

619
00:40:07,700 --> 00:40:10,400
campaign. 
It's great feeling knowing that 

620
00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:14,500
whenever we look at our green 
ribbons, we think of Kristen and

621
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,100
hope for the best. 
Kristin's parents are also 

622
00:40:18,100 --> 00:40:21,400
wearing ribbons and like the 
students have not given up, hope

623
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,300
they feel so strong that the 
same as we do that, she's still 

624
00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:27,800
out there. 
And they just want to express 

625
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,600
that feeling to the public and 
to Christy if she's as a chance 

626
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:36,700
to watch the everybody's behind 
her and the hold on, until the 

627
00:40:36,700 --> 00:40:38,700
police get there and get her 
tonight. 

628
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:42,000
Police will start us three 
proofing program parents of 

629
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,000
school. 
Children can take part tonight 

630
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,200
at Centennial library. 
Tom. 

631
00:40:46,300 --> 00:40:48,300
Hey C. 
Fto News, Saint Catherine. 

632
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:51,900
Police in st. 
Catharines. 

633
00:40:51,900 --> 00:40:55,200
Hope they have a new lead in The
Disappearance of Kristen French.

634
00:40:55,300 --> 00:40:58,900
Police want to talk with the 
driver of a gray horizon or Omni

635
00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:01,800
who may have witnessed a 
cream-colored Camaro speeding 

636
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,900
from the area. 
Where French was last seen? 

637
00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:08,900
CFT, owes Tom, Hayes reports. 
Niagara Regional Police say the 

638
00:41:08,900 --> 00:41:12,500
driver of the great Omni similar
to this car could have Vital 

639
00:41:12,500 --> 00:41:16,600
Information in the Abduction of 
Kristen French police believe 

640
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,700
the cream-colored Camaro 
suspected in the abduction. 

641
00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:22,200
Left the grace church parking 
lot on Lynn. 

642
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,600
Well Road and headed east the 
Camaro. 

643
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,300
Driving erratically may have 
turned on to Geneva Street where

644
00:41:28,300 --> 00:41:31,600
it nearly collided with a grey 
Omni or Horizon in the 

645
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,800
intersection of Geneva and 
Scott. 

646
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:37,700
If you were the driver of this, 
great Omni or spot, Car in the 

647
00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:39,600
area. 
You are urged to phone. 

648
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:44,000
The hotline number at one eight 
hundred to six seven six three 

649
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,700
five seven. 
Police received this information

650
00:41:46,700 --> 00:41:50,400
yesterday during a spot check 
along Lynn Well Road today, 

651
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,600
police are following up on other
interviews with some people who 

652
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,800
say they may have seen the 
cream-colored Camaro in a sad 

653
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,900
twist to this story. 
Police say there is a group in 

654
00:41:59,900 --> 00:42:02,100
st. 
Catherine's asking for donations

655
00:42:02,100 --> 00:42:04,600
on behalf of Kristen and the 
Holy Cross. 

656
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,500
Secondary School police warned 
That these solicitations have 

657
00:42:08,500 --> 00:42:12,400
not been authorized by Holy 
Cross or the French family. 

658
00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:19,100
Tom Hayes, CFT onew. 
Good evening. 

659
00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:22,200
Immense relief tonight, and some
closure for the families of 

660
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,300
Kristen, French and Leslie. 
Mahaffy gruesome video tapes 

661
00:42:25,300 --> 00:42:27,900
depicting the rape. 
And torture of the school girls.

662
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,000
Have now been incinerated during
an emotional Gathering. 

663
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,500
See if he is Alicia K marks and 
spoke with Christians mother, 

664
00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:35,700
Donna, French him st. 
Catherine's today. 

665
00:42:36,500 --> 00:42:40,000
And every time those tapes were 
viewed, it's a violation of the 

666
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,800
girls involved and to know that 
that's not going to happen. 

667
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,300
Again, means a lot, Donna French
is grateful that after a long 

668
00:42:47,300 --> 00:42:50,800
battle, the horrific Videotapes 
of her daughter Kristen and 

669
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,900
Leslie mahaffy being raped and 
tortured. 

670
00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:55,900
By Paul Bernardo are finally 
gone forever. 

671
00:42:56,300 --> 00:43:01,400
It was very, very emotional. 
There was the Maha fees and my 

672
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,000
husband and my son was with me. 
He, there were members of the 

673
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:12,500
green ribbon, Chief Bevin and 
chief Nichols was there and 

674
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:16,900
superintendent, Gary bolio, who 
arranged all of this the tapes 

675
00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:19,900
which were incinerated Helped 
convict Paul Bernardo of two 

676
00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:24,300
counts of first-degree murder in
1995, they contrast sharply with

677
00:43:24,300 --> 00:43:27,900
this home video of Bernardo and 
his then, wife Karla Homolka. 

678
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:29,800
Tim Danson lawyer for the 
French. 

679
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,500
And Mahaffey families, says all 
known copies of those tapes, and

680
00:43:33,500 --> 00:43:36,100
a significant amount of other 
materials were destroyed 

681
00:43:36,100 --> 00:43:38,300
yesterday in an undisclosed 
location. 

682
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,500
As everybody knows the Supreme 
Court of Canada has said no to 

683
00:43:41,500 --> 00:43:47,000
Bernardo and therefore, in our 
view, there are no further legal

684
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,900
proceedings. 
And therefore not required for 

685
00:43:49,900 --> 00:43:52,900
the administration of justice. 
The tapes were not discovered by

686
00:43:52,900 --> 00:43:55,500
police during a comprehensive 
search of bernardo's home. 

687
00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:59,500
After his 1993 arrest, Bernardo 
is ex wife, Karla Homolka. 

688
00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:03,100
Eventually told police about the
videotapes and testified against

689
00:44:03,100 --> 00:44:05,000
Bernardo as part of a plea 
bargain. 

690
00:44:05,300 --> 00:44:08,300
She's serving a 12-year sentence
at a women's prison in Joliet 

691
00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:10,200
Quebec. 
Homolka is lawyer. 

692
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,900
Mark, labelled says he is 
totally in agreement with the 

693
00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:15,000
destruction of the tapes and 
contends. 

694
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,100
The move won't have any effect 
on her mochas case because she 

695
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,800
doesn't want to appeal 
conviction. 

696
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,700
Donna French says, the 
destruction of those painful. 

697
00:44:22,700 --> 00:44:24,600
Images is the best Christmas 
present. 

698
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,600
Her family has had in over eight
and a half years. 

699
00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:31,800
This Christmas Kristen would 
have been 25 years old Alicia 

700
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,600
came markson, see, fto News St. 
Cap. 

701
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:43,300
Of his father can Bernardo, who,
you know, the Bonanno family is 

702
00:44:43,300 --> 00:44:46,400
a very quiet family, obviously 
notorious family. 

703
00:44:47,100 --> 00:44:50,100
But I've interviewed him and he 
has a number of things to say 

704
00:44:50,100 --> 00:44:54,600
about everything from, you know,
the move from Kingston pan and 

705
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,600
other things, okay? 
And you know what? 

706
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,400
There's a another element here, 
that I know that you talked 

707
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,600
about. 
And that's a fact that Russell 

708
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:06,100
Williams family is now talking 
to the Bernardo family. 

709
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:11,100
That's And it's interesting that
they were both kind of in this 

710
00:45:11,100 --> 00:45:13,800
wing and, you know, it's 
strange, because Bernardo and, 

711
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,400
and Russell Williams actually 
traveled the same path. 

712
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,500
They live in the same 
neighborhood in Scarborough, 

713
00:45:19,900 --> 00:45:22,900
they went to the same college 
and I think even crossed the 

714
00:45:22,900 --> 00:45:24,700
hallways at the same high school
at times. 

715
00:45:24,700 --> 00:45:29,000
Same malls and Paul Bernardo is 
father said that, you know, 

716
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,900
while they don't acknowledge 
that they knew each other and 

717
00:45:30,900 --> 00:45:35,200
I'm told that they did know each
other by police sources but they

718
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,500
haven't acknowledged it. 
He He wonders. 

719
00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:40,800
If Paul has told him, he wonders
if he may have passed by them or

720
00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:42,800
run into him here or there, that
kind of thing. 

721
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:47,200
But anyway, the news is that 
Ken, Bernardo says that he 

722
00:45:47,300 --> 00:45:50,200
regularly several times as 
spoken to marry Elizabeth 

723
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,600
Herriman. 
Who is Russell Williams wife, 

724
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,200
when she was going to visit him.
Now, Russell Williams is part of

725
00:45:55,207 --> 00:45:57,500
this story has also been moved 
to Quebec. 

726
00:45:57,500 --> 00:46:00,900
I don't know the prison that 
he's been moved to still trying 

727
00:46:00,900 --> 00:46:03,700
to work on that. 
But he has been moved to Quebec 

728
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,700
and the barnardo's and the 
Williams of guests waiting in 

729
00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:11,200
the The waiting room, if you 
will for their prisoner loved 

730
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,500
ones, I've got to know each 
other and Ken, Bernardo describe

731
00:46:14,500 --> 00:46:17,500
Mary Elizabeth Harriman as a 
very classy lady. 

732
00:46:17,500 --> 00:46:20,200
Now that's not how a lot of 
people feel about her. 

733
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,700
You know, in fact that she sued 
the opp for damage to her home 

734
00:46:23,700 --> 00:46:27,000
when they exercised a warrant to
search the home. 

735
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,400
I think a lot of people wonder 
about, you know, how it is that 

736
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,100
most of the Treasure Trove of 
evidence in the Russell Williams

737
00:46:33,100 --> 00:46:35,300
case was found in her home with 
her there. 

738
00:46:35,700 --> 00:46:39,100
And having, you know, The 
question I would ask her is, did

739
00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:43,300
you never trip over any of it or
wonder about bags of, you know, 

740
00:46:43,500 --> 00:46:47,700
women's clothing Etc. 
So pretty interesting. 

741
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,300
Look at the underbelly of the 
penal system here in Canada, 

742
00:46:52,300 --> 00:46:54,200
Joe, great introduction to the 
story. 

743
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,000
You know, we would urge our 
viewers to definitely either 

744
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,100
pick up the Toronto Sun or check
out the website. 

745
00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:02,900
This is this incredible, and I 
know we're just going to kind of

746
00:47:02,900 --> 00:47:05,500
tip of the iceberg right now. 
There's a lot more to this and I

747
00:47:05,500 --> 00:47:07,600
know if anybody's gonna do Dig 
up the dirt. 

748
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,000
It's going to be Joe, 
warmington. 

749
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,200
Thank you so much for joining 
us. 

750
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,100
Beat and terrorized his wife, 
Carla daily. 

751
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,700
He was a stalker and a suspect 
in over 19 rapes. 

752
00:47:24,700 --> 00:47:28,000
Gruesome video tape for found in
their Suburban home records of 

753
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,900
schoolgirls. 
Kidnapped, drugged, raped and 

754
00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:35,600
killed the first victim, none 
other than Carla's own sister, 

755
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,100
Tammy, the 15 year old died, 
just hours after Carla, drugged 

756
00:47:39,100 --> 00:47:42,500
your drink, then she and Paul 
sexually assaulted Tammy and 

757
00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:45,000
left her to drown in her own 
vomit. 

758
00:47:45,100 --> 00:47:47,700
Paul brought their next victim 
home, 14. 

759
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,500
Our old Leslie, mahaffy who was 
tortured raped and murdered 15 

760
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:56,000
year old Kristen French taste, 
the same horror both girls 

761
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,800
bodies, were found naked but it 
took a long time before 

762
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,500
authorities connected. 
This perfect couple with one of 

763
00:48:01,500 --> 00:48:07,100
the ugliest crimes in Canada 
Vance. 

764
00:48:07,100 --> 00:48:09,500
Murtis was not only Paul 
bernardo's, best friend since 

765
00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:11,700
childhood but he was there. 
The night. 

766
00:48:11,700 --> 00:48:15,700
Paul first met Karla Homolka and
was the best man at their 

767
00:48:15,700 --> 00:48:19,900
wedding Joanna's, Vans wife. 
Socialized with the couple and 

768
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:25,000
saw Paul abuse Carla hours, also
a friend of the couple and Patty

769
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:30,000
Seeger was Carla's, aunt and the
first one to hear Carla confess.

770
00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:32,900
Now, van you and Paul were best 
friends. 

771
00:48:33,900 --> 00:48:38,300
Did he always have this 
attraction for young girls? 

772
00:48:40,100 --> 00:48:48,000
Yeah, it all started. we'll 
around when he was 16 when his 

773
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,900
mother first told them that 
your, that's not your real 

774
00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:58,700
father and he had a Very 
rebellious of something happened

775
00:48:58,700 --> 00:49:01,600
to him. 
It was there some sort of fight 

776
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,700
inside him and he wanted always 
have from then on I like he was 

777
00:49:05,700 --> 00:49:07,600
always looking for older women 
at that time. 

778
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,200
Well you know the for his 16th 
birthday and then when his 16th 

779
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,800
birthday cake tin his mother 
told him. 

780
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,400
That's not your real father. 
This is your real father and 

781
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,500
then all of a sudden all of a 
sudden it was like he wanted to 

782
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:24,400
younger women who wanted to 
manipulate and Conquer conquer 

783
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,100
didn't email. 
Afraid with like a virgin Farm. 

784
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,000
Yes, what is, what did that 
mean? 

785
00:49:31,500 --> 00:49:36,700
Well with that waveform 
prudently Farms, yelping, friend

786
00:49:36,700 --> 00:49:41,400
be like Burton young virgins 
that he called the Verne into 

787
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:42,700
sex slavery. 
Exactly. 

788
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,200
You knew about this. 
Well, are you had mentioned that

789
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,300
a couple of times as a joke? 
But will you do it seem like a 

790
00:49:49,300 --> 00:49:52,600
joke? 
What was he like in in company 

791
00:49:52,900 --> 00:49:56,700
together your silver tongue? 
You could talk to anybody, any 

792
00:49:56,700 --> 00:50:00,700
girl, like like nothing. 
It was very manipulator friend. 

793
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,800
The make you, he tell you what 
you wanted to hear. 

794
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:05,200
I could leave anything you want 
to hear. 

795
00:50:07,100 --> 00:50:09,600
I don't know when I first met. 
I was just a very young and 

796
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,300
influential and I don't I looked
at him as a bigger brother sort 

797
00:50:13,300 --> 00:50:18,400
of thing and after that, you 
know, I wanted to just like Paul

798
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,900
and we have always had a garage,
it has the DVD, he give girls 

799
00:50:23,900 --> 00:50:26,600
the bigger better deal, he 
wining and dining in the 

800
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,700
beginning and then eventually 
teacher and cold. 

801
00:50:31,500 --> 00:50:35,300
And he get sick and tired of 
them and and want to go off with

802
00:50:35,300 --> 00:50:37,100
other women. 
You were there the night that he

803
00:50:37,100 --> 00:50:38,100
met Carla. 
Yes. 

804
00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:44,400
What was that like well we had 
that night, he had an argument 

805
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:48,900
with a girl from the past so I 
suggest actually we should go 

806
00:50:48,900 --> 00:50:50,800
out and have a coffee and talk 
about it. 

807
00:50:51,300 --> 00:50:55,400
So we went to a Howard Johnson's
restaurant near my house and we 

808
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,400
pulled in and we walked right up
and we saw these two girls 

809
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,900
sitting in a booth How old was 
Carla? 

810
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:06,900
Took her car was 17 and a friend
of 17 and Paul was 22, 23 or 24.

811
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:11,400
Okay. 
And what happened was that these

812
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,700
girls were staring at us. 
So we went and sat down and the 

813
00:51:14,700 --> 00:51:18,200
girls were, you know, we're very
calculated, we're attracted to 

814
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,300
him immediately. 
Yes, there was a magnetism from 

815
00:51:21,700 --> 00:51:24,500
right from the start and where 
and where did that end up that 

816
00:51:24,500 --> 00:51:27,300
night in bed about an hour 
later? 

817
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,800
They were an hour later an hour 
later. 

818
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:35,200
Yeah, we were and Powers. 
What was 17 years old and ended 

819
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,400
up in bed? 
An hour late. 

820
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:40,400
Exactly. 
And then the next weekend, 

821
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,000
right? 
She invited you and Paul down to

822
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:44,400
her town, right? 
Yes. 

823
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,200
And after that, they were 
inseparable. 

824
00:51:47,300 --> 00:51:52,500
Yes. 
I didn't change it all after we 

825
00:51:52,500 --> 00:51:54,800
met her. 
Did she change at all after she 

826
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,400
met him? 
I actually do get a chance, 

827
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,200
you're still a party kind of 
gun. 

828
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,700
He had his, he had two lives, 
his girlfriend in St. 

829
00:52:02,700 --> 00:52:06,700
Catherine, and in Toronto, his 
party, friends and other wins. 

830
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,500
Joanne, you met, eventually you 
met Carl? 

831
00:52:11,100 --> 00:52:13,500
Newer long time? 
Didn't you know, long time. 

832
00:52:13,700 --> 00:52:15,100
Yeah. 
How would you describe her? 

833
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,800
Um, bubbly outgoing. 
But there Very significant. 

834
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:30,900
Others have said to talk to you 
about this, he's always afraid 

835
00:52:30,900 --> 00:52:34,400
that they'd be afraid that she 
would say something to me if she

836
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,500
wasn't there. 
So there's no phone calls. 

837
00:52:37,500 --> 00:52:38,500
He was the one that always 
answer. 

838
00:52:38,500 --> 00:52:41,200
The tell me something about 
what, how he was abusing her? 

839
00:52:41,300 --> 00:52:44,200
Yes, she was afraid that she'd 
was eventually. 

840
00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:47,400
Did you know what? 
I was thinking, you know, when 

841
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,700
those signs of a, you know, she 
was a being abused. 

842
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,900
She always, you always said that
in public. 

843
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,400
Oh yeah. 
And what. 

844
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,500
And what was her reaction when 
he said the median? 

845
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,100
Normal wholly owned by non. 
She never talked about him in 

846
00:53:11,100 --> 00:53:14,200
any negative way, never not 
until after she was arrested, of

847
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,900
course, before that, right? 
Oh, I'm very sorry, if he said 

848
00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:20,700
anything negative about it, 
there would be negative 

849
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:26,000
repercussions of living finally,
she left after she would be if 

850
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,800
she was beaten by a flashes I 
think you. 

851
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,200
And she ended up Patti at your 
house, didn't you? 

852
00:53:35,100 --> 00:53:37,200
And what were they? 
What were the bruises like on 

853
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,100
it? 
She couldn't walk. 

854
00:53:39,100 --> 00:53:42,900
She has all of her legs. 
Forehead to made me feel her 

855
00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:45,500
head, and really squishy. 
And it was gross. 

856
00:53:46,300 --> 00:53:49,200
Like I felt really bad for at 
that point, but you still love 

857
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,200
him. 
Yes, he did. 

858
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,700
And at the same time, she's at 
your house and what's the first 

859
00:53:55,700 --> 00:53:57,600
thing she wants to do when she 
comes to live with you? 

860
00:53:59,300 --> 00:54:06,000
She wants to go look for some 
men rather to Bruges. 

861
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,300
She's got bumps on her head. 
These squishy Mark hairs coming 

862
00:54:09,300 --> 00:54:14,200
out there bald spots in her head
and she wants to go chase God. 

863
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,200
You think that she was as much 
of a victim as she's been 

864
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:20,600
portrayed. 
I don't think so. 

865
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,400
Why not? 
Well she's an actress. 

866
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,900
I mean she could turn her 
emotions off just like that you 

867
00:54:26,900 --> 00:54:29,200
know, one moment should be happy
and carrying on. 

868
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,900
And next thing should be 
described for no apparent 

869
00:54:31,900 --> 00:54:34,200
reason. 
Like Nikki fooled. 

870
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:38,300
A lot of people. 
She pulled a lot of people and 

871
00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:42,200
so did Paul school, a lot of 
people and when we come back, we

872
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:48,800
are going to hear every one of 
the most Source horrific detail 

873
00:54:49,300 --> 00:54:52,900
that work were behind closed 
doors in that house. 

874
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,400
That anyone could possibly 
imagine. 

875
00:54:55,700 --> 00:54:59,300
When we come back, the man who 
found the naked corpse of one of

876
00:54:59,300 --> 00:55:02,800
Paul, and Karla has tortured 
young victims, 

877
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,900
What? 
Roger, boy, you're discovered, 

878
00:55:25,900 --> 00:55:29,100
Kristen French, his lifeless 
body, and joining us now on the 

879
00:55:29,107 --> 00:55:33,700
phone from Canada. 
Roger, you at your car one day, 

880
00:55:33,700 --> 00:55:35,300
right? 
I was driving along and I 

881
00:55:35,300 --> 00:55:39,000
noticed the combine on my son, a
conveyor belt in the bush. 

882
00:55:39,700 --> 00:55:44,300
I backed up, get out of my truck
and I Walking about 10 12 feet, 

883
00:55:44,300 --> 00:55:47,700
I would buy a big tree and I was
looking at some stuff in that 

884
00:55:47,700 --> 00:55:51,300
and I turned by the treat to my 
left and I looked down into the 

885
00:55:51,300 --> 00:55:55,800
bushes and it looked like a pink
carpets to me and I want to go 

886
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,700
ahead to go to the combine that 
if they can be by, come back 

887
00:55:58,700 --> 00:56:05,800
towards my truck and I come down
on like on the feet and it was a

888
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,500
body like me. 
And I couldn't believe it. 

889
00:56:08,500 --> 00:56:12,800
And I seen the hair was cut real
short and by the size of the 

890
00:56:12,900 --> 00:56:15,800
feet and their small hands. 
I didn't know if it was a girl 

891
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:20,400
or a boy. 
So it's I turned around, I ran 

892
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:24,700
to my truck, and I went to the 
first farm and I knocked on the 

893
00:56:24,700 --> 00:56:26,600
door and young gentleman 
answered the door. 

894
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:28,900
And I told him to phone the 
police, I just found the body up

895
00:56:28,900 --> 00:56:31,400
the road, right. 
How did they treat you once they

896
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,400
once they got your story. 
Don't think I make story. 

897
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:38,100
They got, they took my shoes for
Footprints. 

898
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,500
They started you became a 
suspect in you. 

899
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,300
Yeah. 
I became a suspect as soon as 

900
00:56:42,300 --> 00:56:46,000
they they took that my tire 
tracks, my truck and Prince. 

901
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,800
They took My shoe prints and 
like the boots I was wearing and

902
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,500
then they get come back every 
week and question me. 

903
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,000
I'm stuck back for almost seven 
months. 

904
00:56:56,100 --> 00:56:57,300
Seven months. 
Yeah. 

905
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,000
For almost seven months. 
I was a suspect until she. 

906
00:57:01,700 --> 00:57:05,600
She testified against her, 
husband until Marla testified 

907
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,100
against her husband in court. 
Yeah. 

908
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:10,300
Okay. 
Then you are almost, you were a 

909
00:57:10,308 --> 00:57:15,300
suspect too, weren't you. 
It seemed to be because the way 

910
00:57:15,300 --> 00:57:16,500
they were questioned me in the 
beginning. 

911
00:57:22,900 --> 00:57:25,700
Because why? 
Well, they want to know why I 

912
00:57:25,700 --> 00:57:28,000
knew so much about him why I 
thought. 

913
00:57:28,100 --> 00:57:32,800
Thought that he was a suspect in
the beginning. 

914
00:57:32,900 --> 00:57:34,700
Didn't they have any idea about 
Paul? 

915
00:57:35,500 --> 00:57:37,700
They did. 
They had they had semen sample 

916
00:57:37,700 --> 00:57:39,400
and they had was he arrested 
Paul? 

917
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,900
I came forward to the Ontario 
Provincial Police and I said, 

918
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:47,400
and we sat down, we talked 
initially for the first three 

919
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,300
hours. 
They couldn't forget that movers

920
00:57:49,300 --> 00:57:53,300
about Paul Bernardo for a long 
time hadn't there weren't there 

921
00:57:53,300 --> 00:57:55,900
rumors about all the rapes that 
happened in Scotland. 

922
00:57:55,900 --> 00:57:59,100
The Scarborough District of 
Toronto well About two months, 

923
00:57:59,100 --> 00:58:02,000
two years. 
And before Kristen French, there

924
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,300
was Scarborough rapist running 
around. 

925
00:58:05,900 --> 00:58:10,100
And what I have noticed is they 
put a compensating the paper and

926
00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:13,800
they wrote an FBI profile 
stating that, he's an anger 

927
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,100
retaliatory. 
First, and think it was Mark 

928
00:58:16,900 --> 00:58:19,300
soon as I looked at the picture,
I go, that's the Endeavor. 

929
00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:22,100
Go to the cops. 
I went with my brother and my 

930
00:58:22,100 --> 00:58:25,300
sister, I went to her house and 
she said I'll turn him in. 

931
00:58:25,700 --> 00:58:27,900
You know, if you because I 
wanted to remain anonymous. 

932
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,800
Towards us. 
So it my brother's wife went and

933
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,900
did some DNA samples and just 
sat on the shelf for years. 

934
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,300
With twenty two, twenty three 
hundred other things, they had a

935
00:58:38,300 --> 00:58:41,600
blood sample, semen, samples and
everything you needs convicted 

936
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:45,200
me up here samples and it's not 
there and it rotted on the Shelf

937
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:50,300
Patty Carla, when she was living
with you, after she left Paul 

938
00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:52,200
and she was battered and 
bruised. 

939
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,500
She confesses to her part in 
these killings. 

940
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:58,000
Doesn't she? 
How does she do? 

941
00:58:58,100 --> 00:59:01,000
Do that. 
Well she didn't really confess 

942
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,100
to me what she did. 
She told me what Paul had done 

943
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,000
with Kristen French. 
She told me that that Paul had 

944
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:13,800
taken her from the church and he
killed her and that she took 

945
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:18,000
part and cutting her hair. 
Well, nothing happy. 

946
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,000
She said that Paul took her from
her own backyard. 

947
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:26,100
Killed her also. 
And the only thing that car 

948
00:59:26,100 --> 00:59:29,400
really gave her was the, the 
Halcyon, or whatever it was that

949
00:59:29,400 --> 01:00:20,800
says 
He is serving life in prison but

950
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:29,200
with a chance for parole. 
Carla is serving 12 years that 

951
01:00:29,300 --> 01:00:34,400
it how sadistic how brutal were 
their crime? 

952
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,800
Guess what? 
They even videotape. 

953
01:00:39,100 --> 01:00:44,500
All their / versiv app or their 
perverted act, they videotape. 

954
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:49,300
They even take their involvement
in the death of Carlos. 15 year 

955
01:00:49,300 --> 01:00:55,000
old sister, the public has never
seen the videotape However, we 

956
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,800
will meet two people who did to 
them. 

957
01:01:24,900 --> 01:01:28,400
Find out how you can protect 
your family on the next Maury 

958
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:40,200
Povich Show. 
We're talking about the 

959
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:44,400
picture-perfect couple Paul 
Bernardo and Karla Homolka the 

960
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,000
Ken and Barbie Killers, that's 
what they're calling them in 

961
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:52,800
Canada, their real-life world of
bizarre and sadistic sexual 

962
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,900
escapades exposed to an entire 
country. 

963
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:58,700
Now, Paul and Karla were both 
arrested for their heinous 

964
01:01:58,700 --> 01:02:01,300
crime, only. 
Paul actually went to trial 

965
01:02:01,900 --> 01:02:05,300
Carla, cut a deal. 
Oh, she got 12 years in prison 

966
01:02:05,500 --> 01:02:07,900
before she ever testified 
against her husband. 

967
01:02:08,300 --> 01:02:11,000
Dr. Nancy Lanza clinical 
psychologist who covered the 

968
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:15,800
trial and Susan's for Tony and 
Tina danzer were jurors for Paul

969
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:19,500
bernardo's trial, the Bude, the 
tape didn't season. 

970
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:25,300
Yes, Could you could you watch 
them without turning away? 

971
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:31,300
Why tell me about that? 
The videotapes, I thought, I 

972
01:02:31,300 --> 01:02:34,200
knew what I was in for not, that
wasn't the case. 

973
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,600
They were, they were vicious and
horrifying. 

974
01:02:37,700 --> 01:02:40,300
You can watch the most gruesome 
movies, not. 

975
01:02:41,700 --> 01:02:46,400
They showed a lot of girls 
actually being assaulted but 

976
01:02:46,500 --> 01:02:51,000
specifically Leslie mahaffy and 
Kristen French and Tammy Homolka

977
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:55,100
which would three girls at night
and we thought the sexual 

978
01:02:55,100 --> 01:02:57,400
assault of Tammy, Homolka, 
Kristen French, and Leslie, 

979
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:02,900
mahaffy. 
It's all on videotape to stall 

980
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:09,800
of Paul on Penn college. 15 
years ago when I do I'm Karla 

981
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:17,500
Homolka Boulder on video and 
wasn't there at the time she 

982
01:03:17,500 --> 01:03:20,300
turned to the camera, was it. 
Somebody turn to a camera during

983
01:03:20,300 --> 01:03:21,700
all day? 
Yes. 

984
01:03:21,700 --> 01:03:25,700
Yes there was there were spoken 
words by both on the timer. 

985
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:31,400
And did it seem that Carla was 
enjoying herself throughout all 

986
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:36,800
this? 
And the Tammy Homolka video 

987
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:38,600
tape. 
It was clear that she wasn't 

988
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:40,200
that she wanted. 
No part of that. 

989
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:43,300
The lucky Mojave tape Karla 
Homolka. 

990
01:03:43,300 --> 01:03:45,500
Never spoke through the 
videotaping. 

991
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,800
And her reaction was pretty 
bland. 

992
01:03:51,100 --> 01:03:54,600
If you had seen only the 
videotape of Kristen French with

993
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,200
Paul and Karla, you may have 
thought differently. 

994
01:03:57,900 --> 01:04:02,100
I thought that, you know, what 
was your impression They were 

995
01:04:02,100 --> 01:04:07,400
absolutely horrible and it was 
very hard because you felt 

996
01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:09,600
trapped there was no place to 
go. 

997
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:14,100
You couldn't get away from the 
videos and we want them. 

998
01:04:14,100 --> 01:04:19,600
Not just once we had to watch 
him numerous times and as time 

999
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:23,900
went on, even if you weren't 
watching, you knew what was 

1000
01:04:23,900 --> 01:04:26,600
coming by the sounds that you 
are hearing. 

1001
01:04:28,100 --> 01:04:34,200
Because not only were they 
raped, they were beaten, it was 

1002
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,500
just awful. 
Nobody in the courtroom was 

1003
01:04:37,500 --> 01:04:43,500
allowed to view the case, except
the jury, the judge, the 

1004
01:04:43,500 --> 01:04:50,700
attorneys, and the defendant 
Paul, Bernardo watch the tape as

1005
01:04:50,700 --> 01:04:55,800
they replace. 
What did he see himself? 

1006
01:04:56,700 --> 01:05:01,200
There was numerous times when 
either the crown of the defense 

1007
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:05,900
was pointing something out on a 
videotape while he was on the 

1008
01:05:05,900 --> 01:05:09,700
stand and he would say, why 
don't you play it again? 

1009
01:05:09,700 --> 01:05:14,000
I didn't catch that and I'm sure
you would just for his 

1010
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:20,200
enjoyment. 
What were you going to say on 

1011
01:05:21,500 --> 01:05:25,500
these tapes were not to be 
viewed by anybody but you know 

1012
01:05:25,500 --> 01:05:26,800
by the General Public. 
Blur. 

1013
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:28,600
But they were, everybody heard 
it. 

1014
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:31,900
They played the, the audio 
version of it and I don't think 

1015
01:05:31,900 --> 01:05:34,300
in, I don't I can understand the
reasoning. 

1016
01:05:34,300 --> 01:05:36,300
You hurt. 
You heard the tapes in court. 

1017
01:05:36,300 --> 01:05:37,600
Didn't you a dr. 
Lam's. 

1018
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,000
That's right. 
And what did they sound like? 

1019
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:44,300
Well, when the kids were really 
being brutalized, he was 

1020
01:05:44,300 --> 01:05:47,100
screaming for their lives and 
they were, they were clearly in 

1021
01:05:47,100 --> 01:05:49,500
distress and there were threats 
on the pace. 

1022
01:05:49,500 --> 01:05:52,800
If you don't do this right? 
I may kill you and these Thief 

1023
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,000
children were just beside 
himself. 

1024
01:05:56,900 --> 01:05:59,600
Not seeing the video is worth 
been hearing the audio and 

1025
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:02,500
seeing the video. 
I think you hearing the things 

1026
01:06:02,500 --> 01:06:05,800
that we're going on and being 
fed were, is more terrifying 

1027
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:09,000
than not seeing the video, dr. 
Lang's you think you could 

1028
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:11,700
diagnose Paul Bernardo? 
Well, it's better. 

1029
01:06:11,700 --> 01:06:14,800
If you have the benefit of a 
psychological evaluation where 

1030
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:18,600
we've really given test at 
after, having watched him on the

1031
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:22,300
witness stand and after hearing 
so many of the things that have 

1032
01:06:22,300 --> 01:06:26,300
transpired, we can come to some 
conclusions about what his name.

1033
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:29,500
Could probably was already and 
what was well, it's strongly 

1034
01:06:29,500 --> 01:06:32,800
suggested that he had a 
psychopathic personality, which 

1035
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:36,800
is a psychopath, is someone who 
were the Hallmark is a stunning 

1036
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:41,300
lack of conscience and the game 
is self-gratification at any 

1037
01:06:41,300 --> 01:06:45,500
cost and his and the continent 
of the world. 

1038
01:06:45,700 --> 01:06:49,600
They're the people who rape and 
plunder and who sometimes going 

1039
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:51,900
to kill. 
And Carla. 

1040
01:06:52,700 --> 01:06:54,800
Can you can you diagnose her 
Force? 

1041
01:06:55,100 --> 01:06:58,200
Well there's a division of 
thought about that. 

1042
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:02,800
It seems as though that she was 
victimized to some degree and 

1043
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:04,200
then after all, she was always 
gone. 

1044
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:07,600
The bruises. 
We saw the the, the battering 

1045
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:09,800
that she took them in. 
There were photos of that we've 

1046
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:11,900
seen. 
That it is a famous picture of 

1047
01:07:11,900 --> 01:07:15,000
that. 
But so obviously in one way she 

1048
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,300
was a victim. 
But is there enough to suggest 

1049
01:07:17,300 --> 01:07:22,700
that she was also? 
Part of the perpetrator as well.

1050
01:07:23,500 --> 01:07:24,800
If you ask me I'm going to say 
that. 

1051
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:29,300
I think she was because a lot of
battered women are not exactly 

1052
01:07:30,100 --> 01:07:32,300
do not exactly prevent the way 
she presented. 

1053
01:07:32,300 --> 01:07:35,500
I mean usually the very Meek 
they don't usually participate 

1054
01:07:35,500 --> 01:07:39,900
in crime let alone murder or 
they're not present for it and 

1055
01:07:39,900 --> 01:07:43,400
if they have any anger or it if 
any killing goes on its towards 

1056
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:47,300
the perpetrator who is the 
battery status and in this case 

1057
01:07:47,300 --> 01:07:50,500
she worked in tandem with him 
and not only that That she could

1058
01:07:50,500 --> 01:07:53,600
have drawn the line at in many 
instances earlier on, but she 

1059
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:56,300
chose to continue going on with 
him and Joanne. 

1060
01:07:56,300 --> 01:07:57,800
Who knew her? 
You think of him more as a 

1061
01:07:57,808 --> 01:08:02,400
victim there. 
Yeah, to extent, I would have 

1062
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,500
drunk that you have to draw the 
line when it comes to your 

1063
01:08:04,500 --> 01:08:08,300
sister. 
I mean, she had more than enough

1064
01:08:08,300 --> 01:08:10,300
chance to leave after her sister
died. 

1065
01:08:10,300 --> 01:08:13,500
She Coulda left, I mean, 
battered, wife tri-level, the 

1066
01:08:13,500 --> 01:08:31,399
battered woman but she didn't. 
She could have been another of 

1067
01:08:31,399 --> 01:08:56,100
his victim, but she wasn't. 
Emotional beings of /. 

1068
01:09:06,700 --> 01:09:10,300
I was just wondering from Van, I
guess, how much you were 

1069
01:09:10,300 --> 01:09:12,700
friends, how much drugs, or 
alcohol, or was there? 

1070
01:09:12,700 --> 01:09:17,399
No, he was just psycho and, oh, 
yeah, he doesn't drink a lot and

1071
01:09:17,399 --> 01:09:19,899
he was also from what I 
remember. 

1072
01:09:19,899 --> 01:09:22,200
It's in the last three months 
before he got arrested. 

1073
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:23,800
There's growing marijuana is 
basement. 

1074
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,100
Yeah, but when you guys were 
telling around, you pal around a

1075
01:09:26,108 --> 01:09:28,100
long time. 
Yeah, let me tell me about it. 

1076
01:09:28,100 --> 01:09:29,700
So Travis was you a drinker 
wrote. 

1077
01:09:29,700 --> 01:09:31,899
A fleet drains, all the drugs or
no drugs. 

1078
01:09:32,100 --> 01:09:35,100
Yes, he smoked up a lot. 
I'll kind of okay. 

1079
01:09:35,399 --> 01:09:40,000
And I've heard that he also did 
cocaine because my question was 

1080
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:43,200
mostly for Carlos and what kind 
of family life did? 

1081
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:45,399
She has to fix the low 
self-esteem? 

1082
01:09:45,399 --> 01:09:48,100
I mean, you don't sleep with a 
guy after an hour of knowing him

1083
01:09:48,100 --> 01:09:51,500
in a coffee shop, what was going
on in her family, right? 

1084
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:56,600
She was a very close family and 
everybody like, their parents 

1085
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:59,900
lives are revolved around the 
daughters, but van wasn't Paul 

1086
01:09:59,900 --> 01:10:03,900
upset because he found out that 
he wasn't the first to sleep. 

1087
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:05,700
Very upset. 
He couldn't stand it. 

1088
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:08,900
It drove him, crazy, right? 
So we opted to it, we find 

1089
01:10:08,900 --> 01:10:12,200
another girl who was a virgin, 
so how does this up my dad's get

1090
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:14,400
involved with the cheapest. 
I be sick as he is they both 

1091
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:15,900
understood to be walking the 
streets. 

1092
01:10:16,100 --> 01:10:25,600
I don't think I was supposed to 
be a Christmas gift for Paul 

1093
01:10:25,700 --> 01:10:31,100
from her sister. 
Carla was supposed to give Paul 

1094
01:10:31,100 --> 01:10:33,900
as a Christmas gift at her 15 
year old sister. 

1095
01:10:34,500 --> 01:10:36,500
Play with okay, large treat to 
play with. 

1096
01:10:36,500 --> 01:10:37,900
Do what you want for a few 
hours. 

1097
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:41,600
She was drugged, she was given a
drug calcium and it was 

1098
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:43,800
determined that she was given an
excess amount that would kill 

1099
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:45,400
her. 
She started choking and throwing

1100
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:46,500
up on her own vomit. 
Is what? 

1101
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:49,300
Right now on the phone is a 
woman named Rachel. 

1102
01:10:49,700 --> 01:10:53,200
Rachel was stalked by Paul 
Bernardo at the same time that 

1103
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,400
they found the body of Leslie 
mahaffy. 

1104
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:58,900
Rachel, even though Paul 
Bernardo is behind bars for at 

1105
01:10:58,900 --> 01:11:02,300
least 25 years, you still live 
in fear, don't you know? 

1106
01:11:02,300 --> 01:11:06,200
Yes, I do. 
Why Well, I mean your, when you 

1107
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:09,100
fold by someone like that, I 
mean, you don't know what's 

1108
01:11:09,100 --> 01:11:11,600
going to happen. 
If if he's going to get out. 

1109
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,500
Like, he will be up for parole 
sometime. 

1110
01:11:14,500 --> 01:11:17,100
I don't think he'll get out, but
still frightening, what 

1111
01:11:17,100 --> 01:11:19,000
happened? 
I mean, like, I never got 

1112
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:22,400
touched by him or what, but I've
been followed twice and I was 

1113
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:24,800
just so afraid to get my car 
because I didn't know what was 

1114
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:26,900
going to happen. 
He followed you twice. 

1115
01:11:26,900 --> 01:11:29,800
Yes. 
And this was as we said, around 

1116
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:31,700
the time that one of the bodies 
was found. 

1117
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:33,800
What did he look like? 
How did he acted? 

1118
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,000
Try to make eye contact with me 
to do. 

1119
01:11:36,100 --> 01:11:38,100
Yes he didn't. 
He was in the car and I was 

1120
01:11:38,100 --> 01:11:41,700
coming home one night and I was 
at a late and I can tell 

1121
01:11:41,700 --> 01:11:44,700
something was staring at you 
like just staring you down and I

1122
01:11:44,700 --> 01:11:46,300
was like, I didn't know this 
guy. 

1123
01:11:46,700 --> 01:11:49,800
And I know when he went by me, 
he just likes miles and I went 

1124
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:51,100
by and I didn't know who the guy
was. 

1125
01:11:51,100 --> 01:11:54,900
So I went and then he did a 
u-turn, he falls me and to my 

1126
01:11:54,900 --> 01:11:58,000
host and stuff. 
So all of a sudden, I lost them 

1127
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:00,400
and I went into my house is 
always open the door. 

1128
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,400
I saw him drives Glory by my by 
my house. 

1129
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:05,300
Stop. 
Top and it was waiting to meet 

1130
01:12:05,300 --> 01:12:09,300
like to come towards the car, 
looks my own stuff, and I just 

1131
01:12:09,300 --> 01:12:13,400
went in the hole, shut the door 
and just went to bed and two 

1132
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:14,800
weeks later. 
The same thing happened. 

1133
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:16,000
I was going to my husband's 
house. 

1134
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:20,000
Well, my boyfriend time and he 
falls me again for about an hour

1135
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:23,900
or so, I was going through red 
lights, I was so scared. 

1136
01:12:23,900 --> 01:12:26,600
Like I didn't know because and 
he was the same guy when I went 

1137
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:28,500
to my Hut. 
My boyfriend's house got out of 

1138
01:12:28,500 --> 01:12:30,200
his car. 
He parked his car around the 

1139
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:33,500
corner, he walked he was two 
houses down from where I was 

1140
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:35,400
staying. 
And I was in the house by 

1141
01:12:35,407 --> 01:12:40,400
myself, like, I was to get like 
if I didn't even Something Told 

1142
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:42,800
Me Not to get in my car, which I
stayed in my car and tell my 

1143
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:45,300
boyfriend, got home. 
But if I would have went in 

1144
01:12:45,300 --> 01:12:48,200
there that that minute, he was 
like, two houses down. 

1145
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:50,700
He was coming to the house. 
He knew where I was so he could 

1146
01:12:50,700 --> 01:12:53,700
have walked in and yes, because 
I was in the backyard and 

1147
01:12:53,700 --> 01:12:56,600
grabbed Yahweh. 
He the way he grabbed others. 

1148
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:58,400
Yes. 
And that's what I'm scared of 

1149
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,000
like to have nightmares, you 
stuff. 

1150
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:02,800
And thank you very much. 
Rachel, everybody thought they 

1151
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:06,100
were the perfect couple as you 
said But why did it take so long

1152
01:13:06,100 --> 01:13:08,500
to realize that they were really
cold? 

1153
01:13:08,500 --> 01:13:30,900
Blooded killer 
No, I've never caught a psychic 

1154
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:38,700
at their wedding, the beautiful 
couple Paul and Karla and we, we

1155
01:13:38,700 --> 01:13:41,000
showed pictures of this, you 
know, they rode through town and

1156
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:45,100
a horse driven, Carriage at 
home, the bride and groom smile 

1157
01:13:45,100 --> 01:13:47,900
for the cameras. 
They videotaped, their sexual 

1158
01:13:47,900 --> 01:13:51,800
assaults against their young 
victims seeming to enjoy living 

1159
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:55,800
out their perverse. 
Empty Allen Karen's is the 

1160
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:59,600
co-author of the book, deadly 
innocent Now, this has been the 

1161
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:01,500
OJs been the topic of 
conversation here. 

1162
01:14:01,500 --> 01:14:06,200
Alan of is it has it been that 
way in Canada on this trial, 

1163
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:08,500
pretty well. 
There hasn't been any other 

1164
01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:11,100
topic. 
It's pretty well, swept the 

1165
01:14:11,100 --> 01:14:13,500
nation by storm. 
I mean, we wanted to do this 

1166
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:16,700
story during the trial. 
I mean, you would have thought 

1167
01:14:16,700 --> 01:14:19,700
we were going to commit one of 
the great heinous acts of all 

1168
01:14:19,700 --> 01:14:21,500
time. 
In the Canadian authorities are 

1169
01:14:21,500 --> 01:14:24,600
faxing us. 
A memo saying, please don't do 

1170
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:27,100
this we have a gag order out a 
gag order. 

1171
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:29,600
Yeah well it how it is. 
Actually happens is Karla, 

1172
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:33,300
Homolka went to trough pled 
guilty and was sentenced to 12 

1173
01:14:33,300 --> 01:14:36,400
years and it was a publication 
Bond, put on the facts that 

1174
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:39,900
would disclose the Kurt trial 
because it's the authorities 

1175
01:14:39,900 --> 01:14:43,400
didn't want to jeopardize all 
barnardo's, Quote, Fair trial. 

1176
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:48,500
Some take it, that the 
authorities really didn't want 

1177
01:14:48,700 --> 01:14:52,200
to bring too much scrutiny on. 
The deal is Karla Homolka, cut 

1178
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:54,900
with the Authority or the 
victim's family satisfied. 

1179
01:14:55,900 --> 01:14:58,400
No, they're not. 
And I don't think they ever will

1180
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:02,000
be satisfied. 
They now they're not satisfied 

1181
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:05,800
because of what first of all, we
have to understand it, Susan, 

1182
01:15:06,100 --> 01:15:11,100
and Tina, and nothing to do with
the sentence given Paul Bernardo

1183
01:15:11,300 --> 01:15:15,800
or Karla Homolka, you just come 
back with a guilt, or innocence 

1184
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:17,500
first. 
And by the way, was that tough 

1185
01:15:17,500 --> 01:15:22,200
to get tough to reach. 
We can't speak of deliberations.

1186
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:27,700
Unfortunately got some new 
Canada that we can do against 

1187
01:15:27,700 --> 01:15:41,600
the law. 
But we can talk about it. 

1188
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:48,400
No, getting back. 
Is it? 

1189
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:50,900
Because of the sentence? 
No, it's because they lost two 

1190
01:15:50,900 --> 01:15:53,900
daughters and tragic 
circumstances. 

1191
01:15:55,100 --> 01:15:59,000
And you also have to realize too
that, they're not satisfied with

1192
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,900
the sentence. 
That was given Karla Homolka. 

1193
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:05,900
Okay. 
I have a question for the friend

1194
01:16:06,100 --> 01:16:07,400
if y'all keep in touch with 
them. 

1195
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:10,700
Do they have any signs of 
remorse for the action has been 

1196
01:16:10,700 --> 01:16:12,800
letters? 
Is that have been published in 

1197
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:18,600
the newspaper and the there is 
No, Remorse from Karla and her 

1198
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:22,300
letter, I believe it's one of 
her friends that her first 

1199
01:16:22,300 --> 01:16:25,000
sentence being in jail was like,
being away at a country club. 

1200
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:30,900
If I could interrupt here really
Carla is serving 12 years in 

1201
01:16:30,900 --> 01:16:32,500
prison. 
That that's not a short amount 

1202
01:16:32,500 --> 01:16:34,100
of time. 
But wait a second though, is she

1203
01:16:34,100 --> 01:16:38,900
serving 12 years for being poor?
That's not true. 

1204
01:16:39,900 --> 01:16:40,900
I'm sorry. 
I'm sorry. 

1205
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:44,300
She could serve only for it. 
Depends, right? 

1206
01:16:44,300 --> 01:16:47,000
She could be out in full by 
Canadian law, which allows 

1207
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:48,600
parole after one third of 
sentence. 

1208
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:52,600
But given the political climate 
in Canada and the notoriety of 

1209
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:56,100
this case and specifically, the 
notoriety of Karla Homolka that 

1210
01:16:56,100 --> 01:16:58,600
isn't going to happen. 
She might be able to innate. 

1211
01:16:59,300 --> 01:17:01,800
There's a move afoot by the 
victims families, to have her 

1212
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:05,200
detained as a high risk offender
and then she would be in for a 

1213
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:08,000
full 12 years and I would highly
suspect that that's what's going

1214
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,900
to happen, Paul. 
Bernardo, how long will he 

1215
01:17:09,900 --> 01:17:12,400
serve? 
Well, he's life imprisonment, 

1216
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:15,600
which means life, he is first 
crack at Pearl. 

1217
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:20,600
All is after 25 years, we don't 
have consecutive sentences like 

1218
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,800
you do in the United States in 
the states. 

1219
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:26,400
For example, two murders with 
next 50 years, in Canada is 25 

1220
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:28,500
years old. 
He could also be called a good 

1221
01:17:28,500 --> 01:17:31,100
considered a dangerous criminal 
and therefore using the 

1222
01:17:31,108 --> 01:17:33,200
governor. 
Yes, the government is already 

1223
01:17:33,300 --> 01:17:36,600
proceeding. 
On those grounds to try and have

1224
01:17:36,608 --> 01:17:37,800
them labeled a dangerous 
offender. 

1225
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:41,300
And at that point, he his 
chances of getting out ever or 

1226
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,800
minimum, she claimed to be a 
battered wife, a victim at the 

1227
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:46,300
hands of her own. 
Husband. 

1228
01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:49,500
But was she a victim or was 
Karla? 

1229
01:17:49,500 --> 01:17:53,000
Homolka a willing participant 
will find out next and get your 

1230
01:17:53,000 --> 01:18:16,600
questions though. 
House to their house, was 

1231
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:20,200
probably a hundred meters away 
and let's face it. 

1232
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:22,400
Who believes that your next-door
neighbor is going to be doing 

1233
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,400
something like this, this 
victim. 

1234
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:26,400
This is for the friends of the 
victims. 

1235
01:18:27,100 --> 01:18:31,200
I don't know. 
Friends of how you wouldn't have

1236
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:33,800
known being that you were so 
close to them and you went out 

1237
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:39,300
and you went out with Paul 
before he was arrested. 

1238
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:57,100
I had a hearing that can give us
an answer. 

1239
01:18:57,200 --> 01:18:58,600
The cops kept reappearing at 
that. 

1240
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:00,800
It was not, it was not him and I
go wait in the car. 

1241
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:57,800
The Carla but of course he would
go into a rage and says, don't 

1242
01:19:57,800 --> 01:19:59,900
you interfere with my marriage? 
And he would, he would put them 

1243
01:19:59,900 --> 01:20:01,900
on the spot and make them feel. 
But you've got to understand 

1244
01:20:01,900 --> 01:20:03,500
that he's the ultimate 
manipulator. 

1245
01:20:03,700 --> 01:20:06,600
Complete Predator, he's a 
complete psychopath and he will 

1246
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:09,100
do anything any means. 
Yeah. 

1247
01:20:09,100 --> 01:20:13,800
You know, not so much because of
this like, like we've completely

1248
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:16,900
done a 360 their lives. 
I mean, this guy, if I could 

1249
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,100
kill myself, I mean, how do I 
have known now, what I need? 

1250
01:20:21,100 --> 01:20:24,500
Then naturally, he would not 
sure you go back and play. 

1251
01:20:24,700 --> 01:20:27,300
Back all the time but you 
thought you should have known 

1252
01:20:27,300 --> 01:20:29,400
something. 
When you didn't, hindsight is 

1253
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:31,200
20/20, right? 
It's totally bogus what 

1254
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:42,900
happened? 
I think we're on the wrong 

1255
01:20:42,900 --> 01:20:48,400
people here. 
You don't know where to turn and

1256
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:50,700
who do we? 
Who knows more information? 

1257
01:20:50,700 --> 01:20:54,600
Anybody else we assume those 
people who knew the two 

1258
01:20:54,700 --> 01:21:00,200
Perpetrator. 
That's what I don't understand 

1259
01:21:00,300 --> 01:21:05,400
if, if they, if they have all 
this independent evidence Allen 

1260
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:09,300
over the years of this guy. 
Why don't we build a cage? 

1261
01:21:09,300 --> 01:21:11,400
Well, it's not that simple. 
I mean, it's simple. 

1262
01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:14,300
Now, starting with Paul, 
Bernardo and filtering down to 

1263
01:21:14,300 --> 01:21:17,200
all the things that allegedly, 
the cops did wrong. 

1264
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:18,700
And maybe the friends didn't 
see. 

1265
01:21:18,700 --> 01:21:21,700
But it's not that simple. 
You have to start with the dead 

1266
01:21:21,700 --> 01:21:24,200
girls and you start with 4 
million people as potential 

1267
01:21:24,200 --> 01:21:25,900
suspects. 
You don't start with Paul. 

1268
01:21:25,900 --> 01:21:28,900
Bernardo you start with two or 
three hundred Suspects, Then 

1269
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:32,200
Paul, Bernardo, when bonds 
sister sister-in-law called him 

1270
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:35,100
in was one of the many, many 
suspect, many hundreds of 

1271
01:21:35,100 --> 01:21:39,200
suspect he matched the compass 
of advanced said they took his 

1272
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:44,800
DNA sample but you cannot test, 
100, 200 possible, suspect DNA 

1273
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:47,000
samples in two weeks. 
It doesn't happen in which 

1274
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:49,900
budget restraints of the 1990s. 
The Ontario government couldn't 

1275
01:21:49,900 --> 01:21:51,800
do that. 
That was the problem. 

1276
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:54,500
There was enough money, not 
enough scientists to do the 

1277
01:21:54,500 --> 01:21:56,500
test. 
We'll be back right after this. 

1278
01:22:01,900 --> 01:22:05,300
If you would like to join us in 
the studio audience, then call 

1279
01:22:05,300 --> 01:22:09,200
or write for free tickets. 
It's the Maury Povich Show. 221 

1280
01:22:09,300 --> 01:22:14,800
West, 26th Street, New York, New
York, 10001 were called to 1298 

1281
01:22:14,800 --> 01:23:32,300
9362 to That license. 
I did not want to be paid. 

1282
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:35,500
They didn't feel and we didn't 
want to pay them and so they 

1283
01:23:35,500 --> 01:23:38,900
have their respect and their and
their integrity and so therefore

1284
01:23:38,900 --> 01:23:43,900
they came just to tell this 
story and as we leave, maybe we 

1285
01:23:43,900 --> 01:23:50,200
should find out why you came Why
I think yeah I think he's over 

1286
01:23:50,200 --> 01:24:02,500
there 
and they don't want to open 

1287
01:24:02,500 --> 01:24:05,100
exposing. 
So you look what I have and 

1288
01:24:05,100 --> 01:24:09,800
that's why you shaking your 
head, it's the case was so huge 

1289
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:12,000
over. 
So many jurisdictions that the 

1290
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,900
thing called linkage blindness 
happened. 

1291
01:24:14,900 --> 01:24:17,600
In police forces, just didn't 
realize Wise, if you cases with 

1292
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:19,400
the network, do you feel as 
jurors? 

1293
01:24:19,900 --> 01:24:23,300
What are your feelings asking? 
I think everyone involved it a 

1294
01:24:23,300 --> 01:24:27,100
terrific job in this trial and 
after the Karla Homolka deal, I 

1295
01:24:27,100 --> 01:24:28,400
really have to comment about 
that. 

1296
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:30,900
It's important. 
They didn't have the videotape 

1297
01:24:30,900 --> 01:24:32,600
that the time of the plea, 
bargain. 

1298
01:24:33,700 --> 01:24:36,600
And without those videotapes, 
I'm not sure that Paul Bernardo 

1299
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:39,700
would have been convicted of 
first-degree murder apparently, 

1300
01:24:39,700 --> 01:24:43,900
Paul wanted to have his lawyer, 
can really hold onto the cake 

1301
01:24:44,100 --> 01:24:47,000
because he thought that in 
deposition, Carla would say 

1302
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:49,700
things that would later be born 
out to be totally false when the

1303
01:24:49,700 --> 01:24:52,100
videotape to show you think you 
could have convicted him without

1304
01:24:52,100 --> 01:24:54,900
this take. 
So I think we maybe could have 

1305
01:24:54,900 --> 01:25:01,800
come back with manslaughter, but
there's also a thing called the 

1306
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:05,200
Scarborough rapist on a Irate 
garble. 

1307
01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:07,800
They could have bought those for
referring to many, it would have

1308
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:10,600
been in jail for years. 
Anyways, until we did get the 

1309
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:15,000
teeth that there were a case he 
would have been in jail forever.

1310
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:17,500
Anyways as a dangerous 
offenders, I want to thank all 

1311
01:25:17,500 --> 01:25:21,500
of you, so no deal. 
I think it's probably the first 

1312
01:25:21,500 --> 01:25:25,800
time that this country has had a
detailed look at what this is 

1313
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:27,200
all about. 
And I have a lot of pressure 

1314
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:30,300
quickly. 
This is a very complex case. 

1315
01:25:30,300 --> 01:25:34,100
It's not a question of black and
white and who is psychopath and 

1316
01:25:34,100 --> 01:25:37,600
he wasn't a psychopath. 
There's a complete lives of 

1317
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:40,700
people to go back to 30 years 
and you've got to study it very 

1318
01:25:40,700 --> 01:25:43,800
carefully, to get your answers 
and even that why it is called 

1319
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:46,000
in Canada. 
The murder of Defense. 

1320
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:48,800
I thank you so much. 
Thank you out there until next 

1321
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:57,900
time I'm Erica. 
Come on each day, thousands of 

1322
01:25:57,900 --> 01:26:00,400
children are reported missing 
but more and more kids are being

1323
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:03,600
abducted from shopping malls, 
learn how to protect your family

1324
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:09,700
tomorrow. it's emotional T have 
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1325
01:26:09,700 --> 01:26:12,600
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