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Welcome, everyone. 
This is a podcast about 

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leadership. 
I'm your host, Jonathan 

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Kirschner, and it is a fantastic
day to have three of my favorite

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people on this podcast here 
today. 

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There are some common 
denominators, clearly HRCHRO, 

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that's going to be a a big topic
for us. 

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But what we really want to get 
at at the core is leadership. 

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Because leadership as we all 
know, is one of the most 

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consequential variables. 
It might be the most important 

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thing when it comes to shaping a
better future and, and what an 

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incredible position the CHRO 
sits in, in order to influence 

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and in order to make things 
happen from a leadership 

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standpoint. 
So we're really privileged to 

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have Maxine, Bill and John 2 
here with us. 

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Maxine Carrington, the chief 
people officer at Northwell 

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Health. 
Little small hospital system of 

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106,000 employees. 
It is actually New York State's 

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largest healthcare provider and 
and Maxine, you've been with 

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Northwell since 2008. 
So that's a, that's a little bit

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of time and covering a lot of 
ground COVID, AI transformation,

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just tremendous amounts of 
change. 

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Maxine is incredibly well 
regarded and known within the 

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industry and, and recognized by 
modern healthcare as one of the 

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top 25 women in healthcare. 
So thank you for joining us. 

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I'm considering all things going
on in in 106,000 employee 

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organization. 
I really appreciate you taking 

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the time to be with us today on 
this podcast. 

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Thank you and thank you for all 
the incredible work that 

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Northwell does. 
And we have Bill Strahan, I 

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don't know, 4 miles away from 
where I'm sitting right now in 

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Center City Philadelphia at 
Comcast headquarters. 

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Bills, the EVP of human 
resources for Comcast 

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connectivity and platform 
businesses. 

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Oh my goodness. 
I mean Comcast. 

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What I mean are, are this 
podcast is happening because of 

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Comcast. 
All of our Internet on this call

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is is Comcast supported and. 
For the business, John of. 

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Course, but any talk about 
complexity and, and moving from 

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sort of, you know, kind of a 
traditional, should I say 

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traditional cable company? 
In some ways, you guys were the,

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you know, our cable, but you 
know, from that to a technology 

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powerhouse, such a global 
technology powerhouse. 

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So it'd be really, really 
interesting to hear from you, 

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Bill, what that journey has been
like. 

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And then we have John Toohey, 
who is the managing partner, 

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Trilogy Talent Advisors. 
And John's been doing incredible

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work for the last 25 years, 
placing CHROS and C-Suite 

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leaders for some of the biggest 
organizations around the world. 

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And we're really, really looking
forward to hearing his 

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perspective, not just, you know,
hearing as a Chr in the Chr 

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seat, but what is it like to 
place CHRS and what are CE OS 

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and boards asking for right 
right now? 

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What kinds of trends are you 
seeing John? 

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So we've got Bill, Maxine, John,
this is like an All Star crew 

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basically. 
And I delighted to, to, to dig 

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in. 
So I, I want to start with just 

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with you, Maxine and Bill, 
you're, I mean between both of 

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you responsible for over 150,000
employees in your respective 

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organizations. 
When you wake up on a Monday 

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morning right now in 2026, 
what's the first thing on your 

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mind? 
All. 

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Right, So you know, I'm 
chuckling to myself, first of 

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all, Jonathan, thank you 
certainly for the opportunity, 

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but also for the impact you and 
your organization I have had on 

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Northwell, right, all of your 
coaches helping our leaders to 

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to grow and evolve and deliver 
greater value and impact. 

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So thank you. 
So I chuckled to myself because 

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the first thing is, you know, 
thank God I'm breathing is the 

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first thing that comes to mind 
these days, you know, when you 

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wake up. 
But the other thing I've sort of

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trained myself to think about 
certainly is, you know, what's 

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on the agenda for today? 
Who do I need to connect with? 

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But then there's also this 
concept of seeing around 

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corners. 
You know what might I not be 

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thinking of that I've got a, you
know, make sure I'm thinking of 

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what might I not anticipate 
today that I may want to think 

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about and be ready for. 
And so sort of training myself 

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and and that's what a Monday 
morning looks like today. 

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And I don't get the Monday 
scary's by the way. 

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I get really excited actually 
for the week and what we get to 

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do. 
So grateful to be in that place 

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as well. 
I love that. 

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I love that this metaphor of 
looking what's around the corner

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and it's so easy. 
I, I know my Monday morning, if 

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I just sort of default to 
opening up the sort of fire hose

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of, of my e-mail and slack, you 
know, it, it, it becomes 

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essentially just this like 
reactive catching up and, and 

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you can easily, you know, just 
spend the entire day sort of 

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reacting and, and, and, and 
trying to play catch up. 

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But this notion of sort of 
seeing beyond the corner that 

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that's like the Super skill I 
think leaders need to possess. 

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It's how do you live in the now,
but also be proactive and sort 

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of see what's, what's around the
corner, what's ahead. 

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I appreciate that. 
I also, Maxine, interestingly 

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enough, somebody asked me the 
early this morning is like, what

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advice would you give a leader 
today? 

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I'm like, breathe. 
I'm like, you know, you 

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mentioned like breathing and 
and, but, but yeah, but with the

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the, the sort of torrent of 
change that we're all 

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experiencing, like breathing 
being being pretty important, 

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intentional breathing. 
That is so. 

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Well, thank you, Ed. 
I'd love to be with you on a 

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Monday morning. 
That sounds so peaceful. 

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You're welcome. 
I'm mixnatic here. 

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Bill, how about you? 
What's a Monday morning look 

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like? 
Yeah, I, I not to, not to take 

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the question, you know, too too 
specifically, but I bet Maxine 

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has the the same experience that
I do that we, you know, we both 

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run operations that are 24/7, 
365 S sometimes Monday is the 

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day after you worked on Sunday. 
You know, if, if there is a flu 

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epidemic in upstate New York, I 
bet Maxine's watching the 

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numbers and you know, you don't,
you don't always get to take the

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time off. 
So, so the first thing about 

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Monday is, is it, is it the, the
first day after Friday or is it 

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the first day after Monday? 
I, and I don't say that 

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sarcastically as much as, you 
know, the, the rhythm of the 

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rhythm of time. 
And it's going to really go to 

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my, my substantive answer, but 
it's, it's different depending 

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upon the business you're into. 
And when you are in a service 

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business where like important 
things depend on you, like, oh, 

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by the way, saving your life 
through remarkable caring 

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healthcare, you know, the, the 
rhythm's a little different for 

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for me, though, to, to get to 
the what the questions really 

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trying to get to. 
I think it for me, it's about 

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the tensions. 
It's the meaning that the 

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tensions between how do I both 
go faster and then have the 

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focus to think about the 
particulars that I need to be 

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on. 
How do we innovate and yet keep 

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the stability for people to have
the rocks and anchors and 

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pillars that they need? 
And it's not about how do you 

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get any particular thing done or
necessarily what's like the item

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priority for the week. 
It's about constantly managing 

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the dynamism of trying to find 
the balance. 

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But again, but I'm going to say 
the tensions. 

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I like that word because it's, 
it's, it's almost like a 

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gravitational system of the, you
know, planets going around the 

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sun. 
You're, you're just trying to 

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make sure things stay in orbit. 
At least for me on a kind of a, 

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there was those moments like a 
Monday morning when you're 

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reflecting rather than like the 
To Do List or something like 

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that. 
Or hey, let me remind myself of 

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the values it's living in, the 
dynamism of all the various 

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forces that are simultaneously 
at play. 

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I, I love that metaphor and I'm 
thinking, I mean the way you 

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painted this picture of like 
almost, you know, an, an 

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orbiting system of planets and 
you've got that, you know, that 

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the interesting thing though, is
like what happens when you get a

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little, you know, sort of like 
curveball, you know, that throws

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off the balance, right? 
So, you know, that's a but, but 

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this dynamism, it's interesting 
to think about the like the 

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paradoxical nature of what we 
do, you know, like do we need to

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solve for now or the future? 
Short term, long term? 

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It it it's it is this constant. 
You can think of it as a 

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juggling act. 
But but it but but even more 

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eloquently, like to your point, 
bill, about dynamism, like 

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you're in that. 
And then it's about how do you 

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shift and constantly prioritize 
and re prioritize. 

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That's really so OK, that that 
brings me into like the the 

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seat. 
I'm, I'm, you know, I'm kind of 

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like empathizing and, and the 
seats getting hot, you know, the

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CHROC is getting hot. 
This is a question really for, 

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for the, for the three of you. 
And, you know, I'm, I'm kind of 

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fascinated. 
So air has been, you know, in 

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doing leadership advisory for 17
years now. 

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And, you know, I remember the 
first time I met a CHRO and I, 

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you know, very blessed to have 
many, many great relationships 

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and a network of, of, of senior 
leaders and, and many CHROS. 

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And it feels like the role has 
shifted a little bit. 

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And, you know, in some ways, you
know, there's nothing new under 

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the sun. 
In other ways, it feels like 

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this role has has changed. 
And in some ways, even if you 

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look at just the last three to 
five years, it feels like the 

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role has changed more in that 
period of time, say COVID to 

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now. 
How has the role shifted? 

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How has it changed? 
And you know, to the extent that

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that you have a crystal ball, 
you know, like where, where is 

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it going from here, right? 
I guess I first, it's a great 

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question and then I do think 
your instincts are, are correct.

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For me, I think the role has has
continued to grow and evolve by 

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kind of broadening and 
deepening. 

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You know, I think if you go 5, 
seven years ago, it was how does

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the company manage the 
competition for labor, both 

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attraction from the outside, 
retention from the inside, and 

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then kind of running the systems
that that made you a an 

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effective competitor for labor. 
And I think now effective CHROS 

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are by definition 
multifunctional players and are 

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more than ever are C-Suite 
executives first and thinking 

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about those particular levers in
competing for labor, but like a 

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growingly distant second. 
So being part of the decision, 

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decisions about if we're going 
to go in and invest in this 

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business, are we going to be 
able to deliver the talent? 

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If we have these functions and 
tasks and value creation 

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opportunities, how are we going 
to fulfill them? 

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Are we going to go sort of 
external contractors that we're 

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we're sort of managing? 
Are we going to or should we 

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just shop this out? 
Should we invest in automation 

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and machines? 
Should we invest in employees to

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to do those work thinking more 
long term? 

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You're, you're, you're balancing
all a lot of different functions

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simultaneously. 
It's, it's finance, it's brand 

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in general, it's sort of 
operations purely and you're 

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bringing and delivering 
expertise around the people side

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of it. 
But you don't get to escape from

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looking at the the business 
problem from every angle, along 

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with the CFO, the CMO, the CTO 
and everybody else. 

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So the evolution then, if we 
think about the from to it, it's

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like from a place of say, you 
know, we, we, we need more 

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talent, we need to attract the 
right talent, we need to retain 

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that talent. 
And, and it's almost like your 

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job this is in, in the sort of 
the from state is, is to sort of

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be a steward of talent, right, 
All things talent. 

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And but, but what I'm hearing 
from you is that like 

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increasingly if not fully like 
you're, you're in the business 

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decisions themselves, right, in 
terms of the strategy, you know,

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if we're going to go into an M&A
or if we're going to do a pivot 

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here, you know, whereas maybe 10
years ago CHRO is like, no, no, 

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I just need you to keep figuring
out how do we get the right 

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amount of people and retain 
those people you're being 

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brought into those meetings. 
Is that capture? 

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That's a good summation. 
Yeah. 

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And I, I do think you're, you 
know, you're thinking still 

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about competitive advantage, but
certainly more broadly, you 

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know, not just within the 
context of, you know, the war 

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for talent only. 
And then in the context of the 

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war for talent, you know, you 
think about growth. 

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So healthcare has lagged, you 
know, lagged for a period of 

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time. 
You know, that was the narrative

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and we had to go out and learn 
really from all industries a lot

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of for profit, right? 
And and start to bring some of 

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that thinking and that speed and
that agility and that, you know,

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those ways in. 
So now we've we continue to 

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grow, we grow rapidly. 
And so you're thinking or 

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design, you're thinking 
operating model, what needs to 

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shift, but then you're thinking 
still competitive advantage in 

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brand. 
And now Healthcare is getting 

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this wrap of big healthcare 
affordability is a big issue. 

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So how do we buffer that? 
How do we counter that? 

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And everyone's got to be 
thinking about it. 

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You know, I think one shift for 
us is there's a greater focus on

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the external in HR today. 
And I've been with this 

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organization since 2008. 
There wasn't a whole lot of 

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pressure on us years ago to be 
engaging with public officials, 

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elected officials. 
Now, I think there isn't a month

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that goes by when I'm not in 
front of a senator or a 

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representative or, you know, 
trying to talk about workforce, 

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trying to talk about the brand, 
trying to talk about, you know, 

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the challenges we foresee, how 
we're thinking about AI, we're 

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educating them so that they 
become more informed, You know, 

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so I think that's a, that's been
a definitely evolving 

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expectation. 
That's really so Maxine, is that

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like I'm trying to think about 
like what's the, the, the 

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underlying like reason? 
You know why this kind of 

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influence policy, right? 
Influencing. 

254
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Yeah, right. 
Yeah. 

255
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,640
And just the greater expectation
that you will have a key role in

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that, you know, as we think 
about cost, as we think about 

257
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perspectives on healthcare and 
and reputation and what we do 

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versus this narrative of big, 
bad, unaffordable, not 

259
00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:01,880
transparent, can't be trusted 
healthcare, you know, so that's 

260
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,480
been definitely an interesting 
shift. 

261
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,200
And I would say that more 
broadly beyond the CHRL role, 

262
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,760
but certainly HR is definitely 
in the room each and every time.

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00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:16,200
That's fascinating, John. 
You know, you're, you're sitting

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at a unique, you know, vantage 
point here because you're 

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placing CHROS, you know, for a 
living and CE OS and CF OS. 

266
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But you know, I am curious, like
what are boards and CE OS asking

267
00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:39,000
for like right now that maybe 
they weren't asking for 5-7 

268
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,200
years ago? 
You know, are you seeing any 

269
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difference? 
Yes. 

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00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,600
And you know, to characterize it
more as a yes and question 

271
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versus a from to question, 
because everything that Maxine 

272
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,760
and Bill said that they needed 
to do incredibly well six years 

273
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,600
ago, they're still expected to 
do incredibly well today, right.

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So those are so it's not like 
that. 

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00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,960
Went away. 
That's just become more like 

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table stakes. 
What happened? 

277
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,040
Was it? 
Became the table stakes, right. 

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00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,000
So that's the how you gain 
credibility to have the broader 

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strategic conversation. 
So you know, what I would say 

280
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,400
is, you know that what I've seen
and I think Bill and Maxine have

281
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:22,200
both either address this 
directly or implicitly is that 

282
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,360
the, the, the HR leaders move 
from being a functional leader 

283
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:30,440
to a business leader who happens
to be very, very strong on the 

284
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,480
people stuff, right. 
So, so that is kind of their, 

285
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,480
the competency that they bring 
to the business conversation. 

286
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:41,000
But really it is the business 
conversation that CE OS and 

287
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,360
boards are expecting that 
there's heads of HR will be 

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00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:49,480
literate in and be able to 
participate as an equal with the

289
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,440
CFO, with the head of sales, 
with the chief operating officer

290
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:54,680
and whomever else might be in 
the room. 

291
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,640
So it's a little bit more, you 
know, from how do we keep 

292
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:04,400
workforce engaged, how do we 
optimize labor to, you know, how

293
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,240
is our workforce strategy 
helping us from a competitive 

294
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,360
advantage standpoint. 
And that is a much broader 

295
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:15,640
conversation is a conversation 
that requires all of the things 

296
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:21,920
that made Maxine and build great
HR leaders in 2019, plus an 

297
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,400
ability to see around the 
corners that Maxine had talked 

298
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:31,520
about as one of her Monday 
morning goals for the week. 

299
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And also, you know, have the 
capability to really Dr. 

300
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:43,160
execution. 
So there there was always a a 

301
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,400
knock on HR, let's say in the 
early 2000s, maybe into the 

302
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,280
teens that it was very hard to 
measure what H Rs impact was in 

303
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,080
an organization. 
Now it's probably seen as one of

304
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,360
the most measurable functions 
that you can find within an 

305
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:00,480
organization. 
But you know, Bill and Maxine 

306
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,840
have to be very literate in 
their ability to show tangible 

307
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,880
impact. 
So it's, I think it's around, 

308
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,160
you know, moving from functional
to business. 

309
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,960
Leadership moving and also an 
understanding that the Chr is 

310
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,000
probably one of the few 
enterprise leaders that the CEO 

311
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,280
has on their team. 
Everybody else has something 

312
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,400
else they're probably 
responsible for. 

313
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,960
You have a business unit leader,
you have a regional leader. 

314
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,520
I would say the CFO, the CEO and
the Chr are really the three 

315
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:36,080
executors who that are looking 
at the entire enterprise on a 

316
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,880
constant basis. 
And that's really, I think been 

317
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,960
a change and it has opened up 
kind of what we look for in HR 

318
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,560
leaders versus what we may have 
looked for 10 years ago. 

319
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,720
And John presumably trilogy 
talent partners. 

320
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:58,040
The trilogy is CHROCFOCEO based 
on the comments you Yeah aside. 

321
00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,920
From the fact that when we 
started the firm, all the good 

322
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:03,560
names were taken. 
That certainly is a big part of 

323
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,760
why we decided to to name the 
the The Business Trilogy. 

324
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:07,400
I love it. 
I mean. 

325
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,280
All roles are, are, are 
incredibly valuable, but there 

326
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,120
is this sort of disproportionate
value here because of the 

327
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:16,320
enterprise leadership of those 3
roles. 

328
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:23,680
It first you know you you said 
this term yes and so if. 

329
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,240
People who are training to be 
actors and spend time, and a lot

330
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:31,520
of them do in improv, you're 
told that when the person on the

331
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,800
other side of the exchange says 
something, the worst thing to 

332
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,120
say in improv is no. 
You have to say yes. 

333
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,440
And and you build the seed from 
there. 

334
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,360
So it's a it's a technique with 
an improv and I think it can be 

335
00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:45,720
helpful. 
In negotiation. 

336
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,400
Part of it is, you know, a lot 
of what we're doing now, you 

337
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:54,040
know, you talked about COVID, 
talk about your political 

338
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,640
environment, talk about 
regulatory change, talk about 

339
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:58,800
AIA. 
Lot of what we're doing is 

340
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,440
improv. 
You know, how many times during 

341
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,560
COVID did we say we're sort of 
making it up as we go along 

342
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,040
because we've never done this 
before. 

343
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:11,320
The the analogy between improv 
acting and the way sometimes 

344
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,760
you're managing is, is pretty 
similar. 

345
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,280
The Venn diagrams kind of 
crossover. 

346
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,360
And I think that's one of the 
reasons that this yes. 

347
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:25,360
And concept, which I I think is 
more like decades old has kind 

348
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:28,480
of come in. 
I so so I'm going to put out a 

349
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,720
flood for an NBC show. 
If anybody remembers 30 Rock. 

350
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:36,200
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
You know, and remembers, you 

351
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,200
know, the characters there. 
Liz Lemon talking about improv. 

352
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,480
That's where I first heard it. 
We're we're subscribe to 

353
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:44,520
Peacock. 
Watch it. 

354
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,320
You'll love it. 
Well, I I. 

355
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,280
Mean you're going exactly where 
where my head's going, Bill, 

356
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,040
which is it? 
It could very well be like sort 

357
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,480
of a timeless concept and and, 
and certainly sounds like it's 

358
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,720
a, a very important concept in 
improv, but I'm seeing a, a 

359
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,600
higher frequency of that 
verbiage. 

360
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,880
People are yes, ending me all 
over the place. 

361
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:10,760
And I think it's a function of 
exactly just said, like change 

362
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:17,280
is happening in, in bigger, more
unpredictable ways, in an 

363
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,920
accelerated pace. 
I would even argue as I've made 

364
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,560
this argument that that we're in
a, in a context of constant 

365
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,160
change, right? 
It's not even that we're in this

366
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,000
higher frequency or an 
accelerating change. 

367
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,720
It's like constant change. 
And when that happens, it forces

368
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,120
more sort of paradoxes more, 
yes. 

369
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:41,440
And like, are you focused on top
line or bottom line? 

370
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,680
You know, are you focused on the
short term or the near term? 

371
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,640
Both. 
You know, is it execution or 

372
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,800
strategy? 
Both yes and right. 

373
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,280
So I it's just interesting to 
think about that concept is a 

374
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,640
function of the dynamic times 
we're in right now. 

375
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,280
But something that really has 
been on my mind. 

376
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,800
You know, it's interesting. 
I'm I'm, I'm an executive coach,

377
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:10,240
a leadership advisor. 
I like to do this podcast and 

378
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:15,000
get out and speak a little bit, 
but I'm also CEO, right? 

379
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,760
So, so I'm, I'm a leader myself.
And I'll tell you one of the 

380
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,000
most humbling variables. 
You know, we have 45 skills in 

381
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,120
the air leadership framework. 
One of the most humbling skills 

382
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:29,120
is culture building because you 
think, you know, you roll out a 

383
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:33,720
culture initiative and you know,
you, you get up and, and, and do

384
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,120
something that's like very 
powerful for the culture. 

385
00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:38,320
You, you crystallize and 
redefine the culture and you 

386
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,760
like, I did it, I did it right? 
And there's this sort of 

387
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,520
tendency just like most things, 
like you do it and then you move

388
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,320
on, right? 
Like I said it and forget it 

389
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,040
kind of thing. 
But that is not how culture 

390
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,440
works. 
It's that 24/7 invisible thing. 

391
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:03,880
And that also is harder. 
I think I experienced this as a 

392
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,720
leader and I'm curious your 
experience when everything is 

393
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:14,280
moving so fast and there's so 
much change or constant change 

394
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,600
culture, which is many ways the 
thing that helps people stay 

395
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:26,440
grounded and orients people. 
I feel like that can be at risk.

396
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,800
And I'm just curious from your 
perspective, A, any sort of 

397
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,080
thoughts on on the, you know, 
the importance of culture on 

398
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:41,560
your level of prioritization and
and B, what what are you doing 

399
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:48,800
to enhance and build culture 
when we're in a time where 

400
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,080
everything is changing? 
Yeah, you know. 

401
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,760
We so at Northwell. 
You will never have any leader 

402
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,440
at Northwell on a stage without 
them referencing culture. 

403
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,480
It is in our to talk about 
culture. 

404
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,320
It's funny, if you can see 
behind, there's a, a little sign

405
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,320
there and it's, it's our values 
at Northwell. 

406
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,320
We call them the truly's. 
So it's everything from 

407
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,600
compassionate, truly 
compassionate to truly 

408
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,000
innovative, to truly inclusive, 
truly together, et cetera. 

409
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:23,080
And we try to give that language
to everyone when they have to 

410
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:28,040
describe culture to, to anchor 
it back to those values, right? 

411
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,320
If you need a simple way to not 
get overwhelmed and describe our

412
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,080
culture, we could talk about the
unofficial stuff too, right? 

413
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:39,640
And in each entity, but by and 
large, it's, it's those values 

414
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,680
because compassion is the thing 
that we sell, you know, in 

415
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,960
healthcare, we have to be 
compassionate, but we also have 

416
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,800
to innovate. 
We have to make sure we're 

417
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,800
providing cutting edge care, 
delivering, you know, the, the, 

418
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,520
the most competent expert care 
that we can to save lives, to 

419
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,440
improve quality of life. 
So we have to be innovating. 

420
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,920
And so I, I think about the 
context Bill described earlier 

421
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,680
too, because you're trying to 
direct culture, but then you're 

422
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,800
also sensing it at the same time
to make sure that all the 

423
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,560
artifacts, all the signals 
you're sending are for the time,

424
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,360
right? 
Because we talked, you know, I 

425
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:20,200
mentioned the broader 
environment recently. 

426
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,440
So politics, you see the shift 
there, right? 

427
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,480
We're talking about the 
environment, we're talking about

428
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,880
the economy, all of those 
things. 

429
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,600
Bill mentioned tension. 
You know, can stress culture 

430
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,240
because it's people who express 
your culture, right? 

431
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,560
Your decisions and your policy 
processes and policies express 

432
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,240
culture. 
But you have to, at the same 

433
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,120
time you're trying to drive it, 
retain it, fight for it. 

434
00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:46,480
You have to be sensing, is it 
still relevant? 

435
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,320
Is it still going to help us 
achieve our goals? 

436
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,200
This is going to give us 
competitive advantage. 

437
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:55,040
So we're always doing both at 
the same time, you know, and who

438
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,600
we recruit for, what we 
celebrate, what we reinforce, 

439
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,120
what we communicate, the signals
we send, but at the same time, 

440
00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:05,280
sensing who is the workforce 
today, what are their unique 

441
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,080
challenges? 
What do patients want? 

442
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,160
What do communities want? 
And do we need to shift things 

443
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,360
in the culture to be responsive 
and relevant? 

444
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:16,360
So it is a fast fascinating time
to your point in the context of 

445
00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:20,840
so much change, you know for us,
you mentioned COVID earlier in 

446
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:26,200
Digit and AI, you know we're 
implementing Epic which is a 

447
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:28,720
well known electronic medical 
records system. 

448
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,240
We are their largest 
implementation ever. 

449
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,880
So we're in the middle of that. 
We just changed our CEO and CEO 

450
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,240
and Chief nursing officer and 
Chief development officer and 

451
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,440
chief strategy. 
I could keep going all at the 

452
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,320
same time. 
And then we decided let's 

453
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,880
integrate a new house another 
health system in at the same 

454
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:51,200
time, right and etcetera. 
So I'm so grateful for the 

455
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,400
culture we've built through the 
years because there's no way we 

456
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,240
could be as stable as we are and
and still thriving. 

457
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:03,560
Not perfect without having 
focused a whole lot on culture 

458
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,480
through the years. 
And the last thing, because I 

459
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,600
can't help it, I'll mention I 
always talk about when culture 

460
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,680
gets tested. 
So during COVID, you know, as we

461
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,240
come out of the acute phase, 
other health systems are 

462
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,400
reaching out, you know, asking 
how come your turnover never 

463
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,160
went as high? 
How come you didn't experience 

464
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,080
this, that or the other? 
And we would always respond with

465
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,520
culture. 
And it was built through the 

466
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,560
years, but it wasn't built for, 
you know, a pandemic. 

467
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,440
We didn't have a pandemic in 
mind when we were building the 

468
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,840
culture. 
It was about making sure we're 

469
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,640
delivering the best patient 
care, right? 

470
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,120
But intro COVID and, and that is
the biggest test. 

471
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,440
People are dying, team members 
are dying. 

472
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,560
Talk about being stressed. 
But I mentioned truly 

473
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,200
innovative. 
I will give you just a quick 

474
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,760
story and then I'll, I'll stop. 
There was a moment we had to 

475
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,960
stand up team member testing, 
right? 

476
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,120
Because COVID hits. 
We've got to develop the test 

477
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,080
for it and we need the 
infrastructure and the plan for 

478
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,480
it. 
We set everything up. 

479
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,680
Team members and their families 
are going to come and get 

480
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,880
tested. 
I get a call the day before and 

481
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,080
at this point I'm the deputy 
chief feed officer. 

482
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,800
I get a call. 
Max, we can't open up tomorrow. 

483
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,520
We don't have the swabs. 
We don't have enough swabs. 

484
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,920
So we have to pause operations 
on opening the next day 

485
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,720
expecting people to come get 
tested. 

486
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,800
Later that day, I get a call 
from one of our Innovation 

487
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,840
Center. 
Max, we're going to be able to 

488
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,400
open. 
We were able to 3D print swabs 

489
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:40,520
for you, right? 
And so in that moment, I say to 

490
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:45,680
myself, this is our culture that
no one said die, no one said 

491
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,240
we're going to give up. 
It was we're going to figure out

492
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,680
a way. 
And they 3D printed the swabs 

493
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,160
and we were able to open and 
begin testing our team members, 

494
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:59,480
You know, so you look at those 
moments and just gratitude for 

495
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,720
the culture, but then always 
worried about it too, because of

496
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,360
all the pressures, everything 
we're going through right now 

497
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,560
that you want to preserve it, 
but make sure it's the strongest

498
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,080
and most relevant. 
What's? 

499
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,520
Fascinating for me and unless 
you speak about this, is that 

500
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,800
culture is not just this thing 
that like a feeling. 

501
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,240
It is, you're describing it as 
like the enabler, like the 

502
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,640
reason why you're able to change
isn't because of, you know, some

503
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,840
change management program or 
some brilliant person here. 

504
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,440
It's, it's the cult, the 
intentional sort of 

505
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,600
strengthening of that culture is
what is served as the platform 

506
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,000
for allowing you to move so 
quickly and do the amount of 

507
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,280
change that that you've done. 
That's that's really like a 

508
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,280
different way of looking at it. 
So it's a different paradigm 

509
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,360
for, for orienting the culture, 
culture as an enabler. 

510
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,840
That's, that's a beautiful 
story, Maxine Bill, when we, you

511
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,640
know, one of the first times we 
met, you were actually on stage 

512
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,720
doing a keynote on this topic of
culture. 

513
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,600
So, you know, I'm, I'm curious 
to get your perspective, 

514
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,360
especially, you know, I mean, 
taking what, what is like 

515
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,800
essentially like an aircraft 
carrier and, and like moving it 

516
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,480
from traditional cable to a 
technology powerhouse. 

517
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,400
Like what were the implications 
there, you know, when it came to

518
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,120
culture, Like how did you manage
that? 

519
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,080
And and what are some of your 
learns about about culture? 

520
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,280
Yeah, sure. 
Well, the first thing I'd say is

521
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:48,080
I, I think the shift in, First 
off, we just got a master class 

522
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,120
on culture from the HRO 
perspective. 

523
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,480
So whatever I'm going to say is 
sort of the footnotes and the, 

524
00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:00,160
the, you know, around the edges.
I would really just sort of 

525
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,720
stop, go back, you know, you can
go back. 

526
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,480
It was 345 minutes. 
Listen to what Maxine said 

527
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,520
again. 
And I mean that sincerely. 

528
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,960
So, so I'll add mine just sort 
of in the context of that First 

529
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:16,080
off. 
Secondly, because the idea that 

530
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,360
your culture, I think it's a 
little bit like when you're 

531
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,520
teaching somebody to drive and 
their instincts are to, you 

532
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,360
know, just squeeze the life out 
of the wheel and, and you know, 

533
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,520
it's not that, right? 
You, you, you have to understand

534
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,360
that culture needs to, needs to 
shift and it's, it's a living, 

535
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,600
breathing thing. 
And if we see, or if we really 

536
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,400
take seriously this notion of 
the trilogy that, you know, 

537
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,400
you're, you're kind of a broader
executive, you've got to take 

538
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,960
all the aspects of how to be 
competitive and deliver your 

539
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,560
purpose as an organization into 
account. 

540
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,360
So culture is going to evolve 
along the way. 

541
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,200
And it's really the, the 
management of the development of

542
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,760
culture rather than, you know, 
trying to hold onto a, a 

543
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,240
particular manifestation or 
expression of it so hard that 

544
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:06,600
you just choke the life out of 
it. 

545
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,679
It's, it's sort of .1. 
And that's been the case with 

546
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:16,880
us, I think as we've moved more 
from the purpose and what we do 

547
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,520
for a living is the delivery of 
service, which obviously that 

548
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,360
remains, but it's it's actually 
the design and engineering of 

549
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,400
new services and new technology.
It's meant a respect and 

550
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:35,120
appreciation for a whole other 
kind of talent and employee base

551
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,280
and making sure the culture is 
responsive to, to both sides. 

552
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:44,000
So, you know, more and more 
focus on innovation as something

553
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,880
culturally celebrated as we grow
the proportion of engineers 

554
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:51,840
relative to other people in the 
company higher and higher. 

555
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:59,520
So that's, that's sort of point 
1.2 that I, I, I'd make and, and

556
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,080
it's a, it's a carry on to, to 
what Maxine said about COVID. 

557
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,440
COVID was just so interesting. 
And obviously what, what people 

558
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,080
in healthcare industry did is, 
is the, you know, first and 

559
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,880
primary heroic story of that, of
that those few years. 

560
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,760
But I'll use it, you know, a 
provocative phrase. 

561
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,400
In the years that followed, I 
talked a lot to our employee 

562
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:30,120
teams about I think COVID was 
when we a little bit of a early 

563
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,560
2000s term, we weaponized 
culture. 

564
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:38,400
Meaning if you think of one of 
the things that a, a clear 

565
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,360
culture does for you is it 
instructs people what to do when

566
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,200
they don't have time to ask for 
direction, right? 

567
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,600
It when push comes to shove and 
you're, you're choosing between 

568
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,880
2 great outcomes or two lousy 
outcomes, or you're trying to 

569
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,640
prioritize scarcity. 
Culture tells that person what 

570
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,320
to do when they don't have the 
luxury of asking. 

571
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,920
And you know, during COVID, 
while the healthcare folks were 

572
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,000
delivering, you know, physical 
care, they were also delivering 

573
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,400
telephonic and video care. 
You know, I talk about our 

574
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,960
frontline employees put the 
country on their back. 

575
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,440
We increase the capacity of our 
network by 30% in about four 

576
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,720
months, which is stunning. 
That would have been a 

577
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:24,200
three-year run rate. 
But it had to happen for people 

578
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,520
to get to work, get to school, 
to be able to see their loved 

579
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,200
ones, to understand what was 
happening in the world. 

580
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,840
All of those things happened 
through broadband and the 

581
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:39,440
capacity of the country had a 
big punch and point towards 

582
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,400
Center City business districts, 
downtown business districts. 

583
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,160
We had to build out the capacity
in residential neighborhoods for

584
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,840
24/7 capability that just wasn't
there. 

585
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,000
Broadband capability is a 
physical thing that gets 

586
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,040
delivered in space. 
And so having to build that out.

587
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,200
And when I talk about 
weaponizing the culture, 

588
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,760
people's understanding that what
we do is important, how we do it

589
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,600
with integrity, with safety, 
with respect for our customers, 

590
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,440
respect for ourselves, all 
including the development of 

591
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,400
innovation, all of that fuel 
people making the right 

592
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,200
decisions, knowing when to just 
drive, when to take a risk, when

593
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,040
to take a chance. 
And then we've been able, I 

594
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:21,800
think to use that the period as 
an educational tool to then tell

595
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,960
that story and talk about now, 
what does that mean going 

596
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,680
forward as we face other kinds 
of challenge, some of which are 

597
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,440
merely commercial, you know, as 
opposed to, you know, 

598
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,520
existential. 
But but it remains the the best 

599
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,000
teaching moment and asset that 
we will have I think for a few 

600
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,160
years, you know. 
Capability, ability, capability 

601
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,640
and speed, you know, you 
described and, and that was the 

602
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,800
other thing for us that things 
we had talked about doing in the

603
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,320
past we had to do in a short. 
So we were capable of the speed,

604
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,280
you know, Now it also helped 
that some regulation was relaxed

605
00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:59,920
too for us. 
And and that's certainly helped.

606
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,880
But yeah, but I mean, so. 
Many organizations, every 

607
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:09,960
organization in the world was, 
was challenged by, by this, this

608
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,720
common threat and, and some were
able to rise to the challenge 

609
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:18,080
and do extraordinary things. 
And some got totally just like 

610
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:22,680
toppled or near, near toppled. 
And, you know, there's, there's 

611
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:27,520
all sorts of underlying reasons,
but I would say leadership and 

612
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:32,280
and culture building and the 
culture that existed going into 

613
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:37,680
that storm probably played a 
pretty significant role in 

614
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,640
determining whether you rose to 
the occasion successfully or, 

615
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,240
or, you know, sputtered out or 
got toppled. 

616
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,160
Yeah, I see. 
And we don't usually think 

617
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,800
about, you know, who wants to 
think about COVID times. 

618
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,120
It was so, so hard and so 
traumatizing. 

619
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:58,400
And yet the the heroic and, and 
and acts of leadership that that

620
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:04,520
we saw were, were just inspiring
straight up Bill's point. 

621
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,560
You know, not wasting a crisis, 
right? 

622
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,240
That yes, it happened, yes, it's
hard to return to, but what did 

623
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:12,920
we learn from it and how can we 
continue to write? 

624
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,480
So just let wait. 
By the way, Bill, yours was a 

625
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,120
master class. 
Just FYI, we have. 2 master 

626
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,760
classes on culture here John. 
I mean, when you're doing a 

627
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:29,840
search, are are you is culture 
fall into the criteria or, or 

628
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,480
there's like, hey, we just want 
an enterprise HR leader who can,

629
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,080
you know, move and shake or or 
who can be incredibly strategic.

630
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,760
Like do you ever get that 
specific ask? 

631
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,560
Like we need somebody who's an 
incredible culture builder or 

632
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,880
yes. 
But I think the more impactful 

633
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:53,040
thing that we're seeing from a 
search perspective is how much 

634
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:58,040
the of a more important variable
within a candidate's decision is

635
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,600
based on the culture of the 
organization that they are going

636
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,120
to join. 
So yes, we all want people who 

637
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:09,760
are strong at managing culture 
and defending it and helping it 

638
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:14,200
evolve as necessary. 
But you're getting much more 

639
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,120
cultural due diligence from 
candidates today than you did 

640
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:21,800
previously and I won't as a non 
CHRO. 

641
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,760
Presumed to be able to add much 
more than Bill and Maxine did on

642
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,360
culture building. 
But if you can't clearly 

643
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,560
articulate your story, and if it
doesn't hold up under scrutiny, 

644
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:38,320
you're losing great people who 
otherwise could be incredible 

645
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:39,840
contributors to your 
organization. 

646
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:45,160
By the way, sorry Bill, I just 
wonder also, you know, when you 

647
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,840
think about acquisition, you 
know, M&A and through the years,

648
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:55,000
I mean we had to learn to start 
with culture because I think 

649
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,800
back in the day we started with,
you know, you've now adopted our

650
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,640
policy, you're now adopting our 
process, you know the light 

651
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,560
switches and you have our name. 
But now we start with 

652
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,560
relationship 1st and culture 1st
and let's compare our values 

653
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,920
1st. 
And you know, so I'm not sure 

654
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,880
how just your perspective on 
that evolution as well. 

655
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,400
Or maybe you were starting with 
culture in the beginning as 

656
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:19,960
well. 
You know, I, I. 

657
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,400
Know exactly what you're, you're
saying, I think. 

658
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,720
And I, I can't say that we, we 
always started with culture and 

659
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:31,520
I, I to be direct, I can't 
honestly say that we start with 

660
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,640
culture. 
Now what I think it does is it 

661
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,080
there's a, there gets to be a 
fork in the road pretty, pretty 

662
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:42,080
early, but it but a fork in the 
road that says, OK, we need to 

663
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,800
acquire this. 
And then but why is it? 

664
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,040
Is it going to be just an 
integrated extension of our 

665
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,080
footprint? 
And they, they have to be able 

666
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,080
to fit in culturally because 
they're going to be just like 

667
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,680
us, but in a new place or maybe 
in a new market or because they 

668
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,280
know we're going to keep all the
people or do we really want the 

669
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,160
the assets, the technology? 
Do we want, you know, the market

670
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,640
share, something along those 
lines. 

671
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,920
And then we're going to maybe 
cherry pick the folks against 

672
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,760
the standard of culture. 
It tells us I think as much how 

673
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:20,440
to do the M&A or whether 
depending upon how we want to do

674
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,280
it, is it going to work or not. 
Because if it is that notion of 

675
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,520
it's going to be just like us, 
but in a new place. 

676
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,960
And so they've got to be, 
they've got to think and they, 

677
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,120
they've got to be culturally 
aligned to us. 

678
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,880
If, if the culture is wrong, 
then we're, we're, we're 

679
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,240
probably not going to do it. 
We're going to be much more 

680
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:40,480
selective about how we get it 
done. 

681
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,800
But it's an excellent point. 
And if anybody's working in M&A 

682
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,960
and you're not thinking about 
that, you're, you're making a 

683
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,760
mistake. 
What, what, how do you think 

684
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,720
about that? 
Or how do you, how do you know, 

685
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:56,440
Maxine, when you're looking at a
target, whether they work for 

686
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:57,560
you or not? 
Culturally, Yeah. 

687
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,320
It's a, it's a great point and, 
and obviously we're looking at, 

688
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,640
you know, the dollars and their 
performance and, and then you 

689
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,920
know, the way we build the 
relationship too will vary. 

690
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,280
You know, in some contexts it's 
an affiliation, it's a 

691
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,360
partnership with maybe a view 
toward full ownership in the 

692
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,440
future. 
And sometimes we've had to walk 

693
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,920
away because we couldn't get the
finances there or we were so 

694
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,320
culturally misaligned that we 
said this is going to be more 

695
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:29,120
pain than you know and value. 
So it it plays into the 

696
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,400
beginning of the conversation 
and those conversations can 

697
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,240
take, you know, years. 
Nuvance. 

698
00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:38,520
I mean, that's a 7 plus year 
conversation before we said yes,

699
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,720
we're going to bring new vents 
in and then of course having to 

700
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:46,240
clear every regulatory hurdle. 
But we spend a whole lot of time

701
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:49,520
upfront, you know, going out. 
We do these big celebrations at 

702
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,240
the sites, we do a lot of 
dinners, we do a lot of 

703
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:55,360
gatherings. 
And we're not leading with, you 

704
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,520
know, on this day your paycheck 
is going to change. 

705
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,600
On this day, the brand is going 
to change. 

706
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:02,160
It's leading with listening and 
getting to know. 

707
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,720
And then we work a whole lot on 
what we call cultural immersion.

708
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,480
So we assess what we call their 
cultural artifacts. 

709
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,960
How do they make decisions? 
Who are the decision makers, 

710
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,680
Right. 
So all of those things. 

711
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:16,960
And then we go on a journey 
together. 

712
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:21,640
So a lot of high touch in person
sessions around the values, 

713
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,200
around the mission, those types 
of things to get to know our 

714
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,960
identity in that regard first. 
Now behind the scenes, we have 

715
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,360
folks assessing and determining 
a timeline of when we make 

716
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,320
certain changes, but we don't 
lead with that. 

717
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,240
Bill, this reminds. 
Me, you know, you were talking 

718
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:43,960
earlier about you can't like 
squeeze it, you can't like push 

719
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,120
it too hard or it you know, kind
of like backfires. 

720
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:52,680
And you know, Maxine, it's, 
it's, it's really another master

721
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,360
class in strategy, you know, 
with regard to culture and 

722
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:03,680
particularly in M&A like connect
understand do all of that first 

723
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,520
before kind of saying, and 
here's how we sort of operate 

724
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,880
and here's how things might 
change, right? 

725
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,040
That's that's really, really 
beautiful. 

726
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,800
I do, you know, going back to 
that orbit system, Bill, that 

727
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:23,480
kind of that dynamism that as a 
leader we have to sort of 

728
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,200
somehow find a way to keep it in
balance. 

729
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:30,680
There is actually a new planet 
that was discovered called AI. 

730
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,440
OK, so let's like get that 
little elephant under the, you 

731
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,240
know, under the rug and, and 
just, you know, let's just call 

732
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:40,360
it out, right? 
This is on everybody's mind. 

733
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:46,480
We're all using it, all of us, 
and it's tremendous. 

734
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:52,400
It's not just like a new cool 
technology or like a calculator.

735
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,440
It, it, it's arguably something 
that that will be 

736
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,600
transformational, if it hasn't 
been already, will be 

737
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:04,440
transformational to every sort 
of paradigm within work and 

738
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,920
outside of work, right. 
So you know, I am curious to get

739
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:14,440
everyone's take on what is your 
greatest hope and what is your 

740
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:22,920
greatest fear with regard to AI?
So probably not a function 

741
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:30,960
inside of an organization that 
has more opportunity and more 

742
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,880
disruption within a company than
HR. 

743
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:39,160
Related to AI, you know, it's 
because AI is going to change 

744
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,480
the way we work. 
It's going to change who does 

745
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,640
the work, it's going to change 
where they do the work. 

746
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:45,960
It's going to change how many 
people we need to do the work, 

747
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,520
etcetera, etcetera. 
Also, AI loves data and HR is 

748
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,920
one of the largest repositories 
of data that an organization 

749
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,600
has. 
So there's a lot to, to work 

750
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,040
with there. 
I think my, my fear is that 

751
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:05,240
without a lot of thought, there 
may be a, a rush to use AI to 

752
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:09,600
kind of how hollow out HR 
processes before really 

753
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,360
understanding what it is that 
you're losing. 

754
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:17,160
So, you know, you get headcount 
reductions in HR that are 

755
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,720
labeled as AI efficiency. 
And then six months later, you 

756
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:23,640
know, you're in a cultural 
crisis because there's no one 

757
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,800
left who knows how to address an
issue, right? 

758
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,760
There's not a human there. 
I think my greatest hope is kind

759
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:34,680
of on the flip side, you know, 
HR is forcing boards, forcing CE

760
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:39,840
OS to continue to elevate the 
function and take the, the, the,

761
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,360
the work of the CHRO, you know, 
more seriously than they ever 

762
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,520
have before. 
Because, you know, it is that 

763
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,480
human AI integration, which I 
think is what's going to drive 

764
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,720
businesses forward. 
Those decisions are genuinely 

765
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:57,760
consequential to an organization
and they probably touch every 

766
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:03,600
part of your business. 
So, so I think, you know, more 

767
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,040
than any other transformational 
change that I've seen in 

768
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:10,360
business, the Chr is driving the
AI conversation at a general 

769
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:14,920
management and board level, much
more so than I've seen in other 

770
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:19,240
transformational initiatives. 
And that's a real shift. 

771
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,560
And I think the HR leaders, the 
ghost in the machine here. 

772
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:29,560
So you know, you can have 
wonderful AI transformation that

773
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,960
still has soul to it, but not if
you're if you're not, if you're 

774
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,400
human capital leader, a 
significant voice in that that 

775
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:48,440
process. 
John, thank you, Bill, but 

776
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,920
where, where are you at with AI?
Yeah, so. 

777
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,560
You know, like other 
organizations, you know where it

778
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,040
within HR, within company, 
obviously we're using it sort of

779
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,240
I'd say we're using it in big 
places. 

780
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:03,600
You know, some, some material, 
rebuilding A processes, you 

781
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:08,920
know, big, big tools. 
If when we would, if you're a 

782
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:15,120
customer of ours and you engage 
with us, there is AI running 

783
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,840
that instructs whether it's an 
online interaction that you're 

784
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,520
having with, you know, an 
automated text bot or it's a 

785
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,720
human being who's writing or a 
human being who's speaking to 

786
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:25,840
you. 
Or if you go to a retail store 

787
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:31,000
and a person knows who you are, 
they're you, they're being fed 

788
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:36,160
AI driven tools to talk about 
how to retain you as a customer.

789
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,280
That that's a big deal for us 
and it's working pretty darn 

790
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,440
well. 
And then, you know, using it 

791
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,960
small where everyday people are 
kind of accelerating their work,

792
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:51,360
whether it's first drafts or 
finding information more quickly

793
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:56,480
within the company's systems, 
using AI sort of search as 

794
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,240
opposed to other things. 
So it's, it's being used a lot. 

795
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:07,480
My, my hope is that we actually 
use it well and we kind of don't

796
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:14,080
get Dumber because of it. 
And I, I, I say that a little 

797
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,440
smart alecky, but a little bit 
like, yeah, I hope we don't get 

798
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:22,440
Dumber. 
And meaning to think that all 

799
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,600
the answers are already there. 
All the solutions are there. 

800
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,000
I just need a bot to quickly 
organize it for me because I 

801
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,040
don't want to have to. 
I'm not going to think about it.

802
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,880
I'm not going to bring my 
experience, my humanity to it. 

803
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:40,680
That, that's, that's my biggest 
fear and my, I guess my biggest 

804
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,440
hope is that we, we do it well. 
So it's just, it's maybe the, 

805
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:47,840
just the like John, it's the 
opposite sides of the coin. 

806
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,080
And by doing it well, I mean 
things like, and, and I think 

807
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:57,240
this is a cautionary tale for HR
leaders because everyday 

808
00:50:57,240 --> 00:51:00,360
somebody's trying to, excuse me,
everybody's trying to sell you 

809
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:06,000
some AII think to buy it well, 
to use it well, to build it 

810
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,880
well, you have to have some 
fundamental idea of how it 

811
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,000
works. 
You don't have to be a data 

812
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,440
scientist, you don't have to be 
a mathematician, you don't have 

813
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:17,240
to be a computer scientist. 
But if you don't understand the 

814
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:20,720
basics of you know what a, you 
know what a frontier model is 

815
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:23,560
versus LLM versus machine 
learning, If you don't 

816
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,920
understand how training data is 
used, all of those kinds of 

817
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:27,840
things. 
If you don't know how to 

818
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:33,320
properly structure prompts you, 
you're really on the verge of HR

819
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,880
malpractice because all you're 
doing is getting a kind of a 

820
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:41,640
gussied up faster version of 
asking for a random answer to 

821
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,760
probably an important question. 
And, and, and John, I'll throw 

822
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,080
in a commercial for air 
consulting here. 

823
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:52,000
One of the first places that I 
saw a serious attempt at that 

824
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:56,160
conversation was with you. 
You partnered at the time with 

825
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,440
Microsoft and had just a 
wonderful. 

826
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,280
We were here in Philadelphia at 
at The Four Seasons about a 

827
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,520
year. 
Year in change ago yeah, yeah 

828
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:05,160
and. 
I, I have to tell you, I was 

829
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,240
first. 
I was like, what the heck is he 

830
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:10,160
doing this for? 
Because I at that point I'm 

831
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,040
thinking, well, that's it. 
That should be a technology 

832
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:13,840
company. 
This should be, you know, any of

833
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,160
the big technology consultants, 
the strategy, not a leadership 

834
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,360
company. 
I couldn't have been any more 

835
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:23,760
wrong about the importance of 
you leading with that. 

836
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:28,240
And you couldn't have been any 
more right or insightful in 

837
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:30,720
bringing that to the market and 
bringing that to the service of 

838
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:33,800
your client community. 
And I was grateful for it then. 

839
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:35,960
I remain grateful for it now. 
Bill, thank. 

840
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:42,200
You so much and we're still at 
it more more than ever huge huge

841
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:50,160
interest in how do we help our 
leaders become AI ready and wow.

842
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:54,040
I totally agree, though, it's 
it, it, it and, and John, to 

843
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,280
your earlier point about like, 
because, because it's so much 

844
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,480
fun and it and you see how much 
time it saves and, and, and you 

845
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,320
think about what that translates
into from on the bottom line. 

846
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,480
And so you get into this sort of
AI euphoria and it's like, I 

847
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,800
want more, I want more, I want. 
And then six months later, you 

848
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,080
know, you're like, oops, where's
that person? 

849
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:18,120
Or oh, I forgot, we forgot how 
to do that or right. 

850
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,440
So and and and Bill to your 
point about like. 

851
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,360
You know. 
And this, this is my biggest 

852
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,960
fears that we essentially 
delegate our critical thinking, 

853
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:30,520
right? 
That's that's the and, and, and 

854
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,480
as this becomes more 
sophisticated by the week, by 

855
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,440
the way, by the, I mean, you 
just argue, you say by the day, 

856
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:42,840
but it's like, Ah, well, I'll 
just ask AI and and then what 

857
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,160
happens to that part of our 
brain responsible for critical 

858
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,160
thinking that that scares me. 
You're just working on. 

859
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,040
Improving your props. 
You know that is a better 

860
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:55,640
promise, but that's it. 
Maxine, what's what's going on 

861
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:59,400
in your world with AI, What 
you're hoping to fear, You know,

862
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:00,680
it's so. 
Interesting what Bill said, 

863
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,840
because I think sometimes you 
know about all of the 

864
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,680
stakeholders that were managing 
through this right from the 

865
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,880
board to in our case even 
unions. 

866
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,400
So we've got about 30% of our 
population. 

867
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:16,200
And even when you saw the Screen
Actors and you know, some of the

868
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:21,680
strikes and that whole debate 
over technology and you know, I 

869
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,400
was meeting with one of the 
unions the other day and it was 

870
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,120
we don't want it replacing the 
clinical judgement of our 

871
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,840
nurses, right? 
And I'm saying to them now think

872
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,680
about the burden on nurses today
because of all the 

873
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:35,480
administrative stuff they have 
to do. 

874
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,280
Do you think their clinical 
judgement is best positioned and

875
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,480
enabled today? 
So the way we're trying to look 

876
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:47,120
at it is can we create capacity 
so that they it can actually 

877
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,480
improve their judgement? 
That's how I want you thinking 

878
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,400
about it. 
But they're, they're asking the 

879
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,520
right things and they're 
challenging us in the right way.

880
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:55,560
To Bill's point, we have to be 
thinking about it. 

881
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:00,920
So yesterday on our enterprise 
wide HR town hall, we had one of

882
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,760
the consulting firms present 
specifically on HR and AYAI, 

883
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,760
excuse me, and there are these, 
you know, these different 

884
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:09,680
levels. 
So the exploring level, the 

885
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,760
experimenting level, the 
establishing, the scaling and 

886
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,560
the innovating. 
And then, you know, tested the 

887
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,880
team on where would you say 
North Pole HR is, right? 

888
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,960
And we've got the integrated 
sites coming in with where they 

889
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,520
are in the journey as we pull 
them into where we are in the 

890
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,400
journey. 
So it's interesting to see the 

891
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,800
feedback from the team. 
You know, a couple years ago, we

892
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,600
from an HR standpoint, because 
we've got AI and the rest of the

893
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:38,160
system happening, but we 
actually LED with a digital 

894
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,480
assistant because I had to start
to change the HR, HR service 

895
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,840
delivery model because Northwell
was scaling, getting bigger. 

896
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,920
We're growing for profit, we're 
growing into other markets, but 

897
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:50,800
I can't grow HR at the same 
scale. 

898
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,200
And then I also needed to 
upscale our people so that I'm 

899
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,400
not paying people a whole lot of
money to answer PTO questions 

900
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,960
that honestly, you know, an 
agent or something can answer, 

901
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,440
right? 
And so we LED with the digital 

902
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:08,080
assistant and, and now, you 
know, it's from recruitment to 

903
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,440
certain the support center and 
HR to, to other areas, But now 

904
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,280
with teams experimenting and 
having contests around building 

905
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,680
agents. 
So we're allowing them while 

906
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:22,520
we've got formal platforms, but 
also saying it's OK to 

907
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:24,560
experiment. 
So go ahead, build your own 

908
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:25,760
apps. 
And we've done that. 

909
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:29,360
Go ahead, build your own agents 
so that we can rely less on the 

910
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,320
outside and build a lot, you 
know, internally as well, of 

911
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:36,000
course, passing every New York 
City's got laws and regulations 

912
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,000
around this stuff, etcetera. 
And we have to comply and we 

913
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:40,760
want to ethically do the right 
thing too. 

914
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,840
So, so that's where we are. 
And then we are thinking about 

915
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:48,240
the broader workforce as we 
project shortages in certain 

916
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:52,440
areas if we can for sure. 
And we've done a whole skills 

917
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,200
analysis in the org of all the 
skills at Northwell. 

918
00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:59,800
We've got a team that's been 
scoring the impact of AI on 

919
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:04,600
those skills to be able to say 
to the organization, we believe 

920
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:09,200
this work can be not just 
augmented, but maybe even done, 

921
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:14,120
you know, using technology. 
Now let's look at these people. 

922
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,640
Can they be, we have a corporate
university, Can they be 

923
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,280
reskilled through the corporate 
university if they've got a 

924
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:23,160
passion into some of those areas
where we project shortage that 

925
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:27,520
pay very well as well. 
So that's sort of our the 

926
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,320
narrative we are socializing 
right now and trying to get the 

927
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,000
org ready for that. 
Yeah, it's really. 

928
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:37,400
And what's your, you know, 
greatest hope and fear? 

929
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:39,960
Yeah. 
So, you know, honestly, the the 

930
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,880
fear is I've been reading more 
about the environmental impact, 

931
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:48,720
you know, even when you've thank
you, even just that, please and 

932
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,600
thank you make me a. 
Bunny rabbit that plays hockey, 

933
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,400
that just, like, burned down the
tree, right? 

934
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,520
Yeah, that's right. 
Now and the water for the 

935
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:58,960
cooling. 
And so honestly from a macro 

936
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,240
standpoint, that's my biggest 
fear. 

937
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,640
And then, you know, the 
opportunities around capacity, 

938
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:10,240
but I mean, the societal shifts,
the cultural shifts beyond the 

939
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:14,200
workplace that this is going to 
like affection. 

940
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,560
It's going to be very, very 
interesting as we create more 

941
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:19,840
capacity for folks. 
Does the work day, the work week

942
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:21,920
become three days? 
Does it become four days? 

943
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,680
I mean, and then how does comp 
get it? 

944
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,320
If so? 
My brain is, you know, trying to

945
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,280
contemplate all of that. 
Those are some of the 

946
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,960
conversations we're having as we
try to be futurist. 

947
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:33,840
Yeah. 
Thank you. 

948
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:37,160
Maxine OK, there are a lot of HR
leaders, there's a lot of 

949
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:42,360
leaders, but within that a 
subset of HR leaders and CHROS 

950
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,560
who listen to this podcast 
regularly. 

951
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,680
And, and it's hard out there. 
Like it's, I don't care whether 

952
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:53,640
you're an HRCFO at any function,
it's just, it is not an easy 

953
00:58:53,640 --> 00:59:00,720
time to to work in this world. 
What's one thing? 

954
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:04,760
I'm sure there's many, many 
things, but what's one thing 

955
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:09,800
you'd want our HR listener to 
remember tomorrow morning? 

956
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:16,600
I'm I'm happy to go first. 
So we talked a little bit about,

957
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:21,000
you know, competition and about 
the, you know, John's wonderful 

958
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,960
company is named Trilogy is 
these, you know, these three 

959
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,200
entities. 
I think the, the need for the, 

960
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:33,680
for people leaders, HR leaders, 
CHROS to sort of think of 

961
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,960
themselves as as part of this 
triumvirate that you're, you, 

962
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:38,640
you are in the competition 
business. 

963
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,240
You're not in the interior 
design business of just thinking

964
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:44,960
inside the four walls of your 
organization. 

965
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,200
You've, you've got to think 
about what I do makes us more 

966
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:51,880
competitive to achieve our 
purpose as a, as an entity. 

967
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,560
Sometimes I think that's lost on
HR and I think it's a, it's a 

968
00:59:55,560 --> 01:00:00,360
critical driver to help you 
prioritize and actually, frankly

969
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,080
to choose the HR talent around 
you love. 

970
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:11,240
That so Bill is in this class of
Chr OS I call elite Chr OS, you 

971
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:17,400
know, kind of fanning out. 
Same thing with John and, you 

972
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,160
know, coming back to the seeing 
around corners, the thing that's

973
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,800
going to distinguish you is, you
know, John described the table 

974
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:29,240
stakes before, but the ability, 
yeah, to be reading, to be 

975
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:34,760
learning, to be scanning, to be 
a bit of a futurist, right? 

976
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:39,680
I think that's important, the 
seeing around the corners and 

977
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:42,080
making sure you've got a voice 
in that and that you're 

978
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,280
educating folks on that. 
I think it's going to 

979
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:48,040
distinguish and and better ready
the organization for any change.

980
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:50,640
I love that. 
So we got to be an enterprise 

981
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:52,440
leader. 
We could it's not this is not 

982
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:56,200
about just leading within your 
sort of four walls like you have

983
01:00:56,200 --> 01:01:02,640
to, you know, traverse across 
the organization and and and 

984
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:06,720
this you use the word actually 
sense making earlier on the call

985
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:10,680
next scene, but but also like 
sing around the corner, taking 

986
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:16,600
that time to really like think 
beyond the next quarter or the 

987
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,920
next even year. 
It's always been important to do

988
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:23,200
that. 
But but wow, is it very 

989
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:28,040
important right now. 
Amazing, John, what what What's 

990
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,680
a parting message from your You 
got to be a better. 

991
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:34,760
Leader, you have to be a better 
leader in your own teams because

992
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:39,000
your people currently and 
historically are being trained 

993
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,680
for jobs that are not going to 
exist five years from now. 

994
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,880
They are being trained to run 
steam engines and electric 

995
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:50,000
powered world and and it's your 
your training programs are 

996
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,320
outdated. 
The way that they're they're 

997
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,240
being educated is outdated. 
And you really need to start 

998
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,840
looking at that because you're 
just, you know, go going to 

999
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,400
Maxine's issue around labor 
shortage and and talent 

1000
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:03,400
shortage. 
It's going to be exacerbated by 

1001
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:05,760
the fact that the people that we
do have are trained to do the 

1002
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:10,440
wrong things. 
Wow. 

1003
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:15,480
I appreciate. 
I appreciate that message. 

1004
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:18,400
Of course, this is a podcast 
about leadership. 

1005
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:23,800
So that's a great parting 
advice, John. 

1006
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:30,520
And, and I do think that the 
there is a huge risk in getting 

1007
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:35,240
stretched too thin, being that 
enterprise leader and maybe 

1008
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:41,560
perhaps spending over indexing 
on strategy and, and, and trying

1009
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:46,120
to forecast at the expense of 
spending time with the team, 

1010
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:48,840
right? 
And leading through others, 

1011
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,480
because that is ultimately, you 
know, if you're just doing it 

1012
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:53,760
yourself, it's not leadership, 
right? 

1013
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:57,520
It's through others. 
So I mean, that's a yes and 

1014
01:02:57,520 --> 01:02:59,120
right. 
So you got to do what you're 

1015
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:03,200
doing, Bill, what you're doing 
that scene and and obviously to 

1016
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:07,360
to hold it all together, right, 
We've got to be not just good 

1017
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:10,920
leaders, but great leaders. 
This was just a fascinating Rich

1018
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:16,160
discussion and I'm just so 
appreciate you all being guests 

1019
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,680
on this podcast. 
And that will conclude now. 

1020
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:25,320
But thank you very much, and 
we'll look forward to more great

1021
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,680
episodes on a podcast about 
leadership. 

1022
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,920
Thank you Bill, Maxine and John 
for an amazing episode.